0:04

Hello, and welcome

0:04

to Dust Jackets: Conversations

0:07

With Authors. Today I have a

0:07

very special guest who is not

0:11

only an author, but also a

0:11

computer geek like me. He's

0:15

always looking to the future of

0:15

book distribution. But first let

0:19

me read his formal bio for you.

0:22

Laurence O'Bryan was born in

0:22

Dublin. He studied business, and

0:26

then IT at Oxford University.

0:26

After going to England, he paid

0:31

for his own courses and began

0:31

rising at 4AM so he could study

0:35

and work at the same time. One

0:35

early job was as a kitchen

0:39

porter near the Bank of England

0:39

cleaning the plates of the well

0:43

connected. He stayed in squats

0:43

in London and struggled for

0:47

years. Laurence was first

0:47

published by a school newspaper

0:50

when he was ten, for a s hort

0:50

story about aliens getting lost.

0:56

Thirty-five years later, he

0:56

attended an authonomy workshop

1:00

and not long after was offered a

1:00

publishing contract for three

1:03

books. The first of which, The

1:03

Instanbul Puzzle, won the

1:07

Outstanding Novel award at the

1:07

Southern California Writer's

1:10

Conference in 2007. I first met Laurence, seeking

1:13

help for my Twitter account. He

1:18

helped me to get started in how

1:18

to build a following. And I have

1:21

to say I truly owe at least half

1:21

my followers to his assistance.

1:26

So welcome to Dust Jackets,

1:26

Laurence. Thank you so much for

1:29

being a part of this.

1:31

Thank you very

1:31

much for having me. It's a great

1:33

pleasure to meet everybody and

1:33

great pleasure to be here.

1:35

Hello.

1:38

For those of you

1:38

that are detecting an accent, I

1:40

forgot to tell you that Laurence

1:40

is from Ireland. So, Laurence, I

1:46

wanted to start off today

1:46

talking about a project that

1:50

we're both involved in, but you

1:50

really are the leader and mover

1:54

and shaker on this. And that is

1:54

book and NFT's. For those of you

1:59

who don't know, NFTstands for

1:59

non-fungible token. And what

2:06

that really means is kind of a

2:06

way to prove authenticity of

2:12

something that you're buying in

2:12

the digital sphere. If you've

2:25

seen the news on any of the

2:25

NFT's that artists have put out,

2:31

we've seen some really amazing

2:31

sales. For example,

2:36

multi-million dollar sales for

2:36

art. Recently, I think Tim

2:44

Berners-Lee actually put an NFT

2:44

out of his initial code for the

2:49

Internet. I think that was a $5

2:49

million sale.

2:53

But books are on a different

2:53

level, we think. I don't know,

2:57

anyone, maybe JK Rowling, who

2:57

might be able to garner millions

3:01

of dollars for something that

3:01

she would put up as an NFT. So

3:06

we're taking a different

3:06

approach with that. Can you talk

3:09

a little bit about that,

3:09

Laurence? What made you decide

3:12

that this was the way to go? And

3:12

how are you approaching it, that

3:17

other people haven't been able

3:17

to solve the problem with books

3:21

in that sphere?

3:23

Well, I was

3:23

particularly taken with NFTs in

3:25

terms of the new technology

3:25

opportunities that it provides.

3:30

We're not looking to be a get

3:30

rich quick for millions NFT.

3:36

What we're doing at Books Go

3:36

Social with our NFTs is

3:41

providing low cost, reasonably

3:41

priced ebooks--special editions

3:47

between $20 and $100 with the

3:47

majority at $25 and $30. And

3:55

that is a reasonable price when

3:55

you consider that you have a

3:59

selection of books and items

3:59

included.

4:02

Usually inside it, in some

4:02

cases, it's a box set. In other

4:07

cases that includes an audio

4:07

book as well. In other cases it

4:11

includes extra stories and

4:11

audio. In one case, there's a

4:15

song; and in some cases are also

4:15

video files included. So all of

4:21

those items are put together

4:21

into what we call a special

4:25

edition. So $20 $30 $40 is the

4:25

majority of pricing of our NFTs.

4:33

So we're not looking to try and

4:33

sell something for a million

4:36

dollars or anything like that. What what struck me about NFT is

4:38

the opportunity. The fact that

4:45

they are moving into many areas

4:45

because they are recorded on the

4:50

blockchain. You've probably

4:50

heard about cryptocurrencies and

4:54

how they're becoming an

4:54

interesting trading option. The

4:58

value of cryptocurrencies

4:58

actuating rapidly. So this is

5:02

based on a cryptocurrency on the

5:02

WAX system, which is an entirely

5:08

green cryptocurrency. That means

5:08

it is carbon neutral. I was

5:12

overtaken by that particular

5:12

style of cryptocurrency because

5:18

of the fact that it's carbon

5:18

neutral. Let's put that issue

5:22

aside and you can look that up. It's also been used by William

5:23

Shatner. And for me, if William

5:27

Shatner minted his NFT on WAX,

5:27

it's good enough for me. We also

5:35

see companies like Atari and

5:35

Marvel, and lots of others

5:39

minting their NFTs on WAX. So

5:39

it's not just the fact that

5:43

we're doing it at a reasonable

5:43

price. But it's the inherent

5:48

qualities of the NFT. And this

5:48

as a change in the internet and

5:53

what has been happening on the

5:53

internet, which really struck me

5:57

as something different. I was taken with it in the same

5:58

way as when I heard about the

6:02

internet 30 or so years ago, and

6:02

how interesting it was regarding

6:08

the energy and use the

6:08

blockchain provides for people.

6:12

So to give you an idea what that

6:12

is. It's the NFT's contract.

6:17

It's a token, which is a

6:17

contract, which says that you

6:21

own something. So what do you

6:21

own when you buy an ebook NFT?

6:26

Imagine the idea of buying an

6:26

ebook at 20, 30, $40 with the

6:32

extra content, enjoying it, but

6:32

then being able to resell it.

6:36

And that struck me as hugely

6:36

important, because it means that

6:40

we have a secondary market for

6:40

the reader. After they've

6:44

enjoyed reading the book,

6:44

there's a secondary market. And

6:48

because all of the transactions

6:48

are recorded, the author can

6:52

also get a share of the

6:52

secondary rights. And in our

6:56

case, we set that at 10%. So this is a fundamental change

6:59

for authors. For the whole

7:03

history of writing, authors have

7:03

written books and then, if

7:06

someone decides to resell them,

7:06

the book that you've written, we

7:10

don't get anything. So these

7:10

factors, the benefit for the

7:14

reader, that you as a reader,

7:14

and I'm also a reader, that I

7:17

could buy something for $25 and

7:17

then in a few weeks time, I can

7:23

sell it again. And one of the

7:23

reasons that is you're able to

7:27

do that is because these are

7:27

limited editions. So in our

7:30

case, we're basing these on one

7:30

of 100 limited editions. They

7:35

could be one of 1000, or only

7:35

one of one. It's up to the

7:38

author and, in our case, to

7:38

decide what is the limit on the

7:43

number of editions. So in this

7:43

particular special edition that

7:46

you would buy, say for $25, this

7:46

has been one of 100 that means

7:51

it retains some value, and it

7:51

can be sold later. So there are

7:56

arguments to say there's an

7:56

ebook NFT that might go up in

7:59

price over the next year or two.

7:59

There's other arguments to say

8:02

that it might go down in price

8:02

like anytime you buy something.

8:06

But the concept of being able to

8:06

resell something for me was

8:10

striking. The idea that you

8:10

could hold on to an ebook and at

8:14

some point you could try and

8:14

resell it.

8:17

On the WAX currency system,

8:17

there is a marketplace where you

8:21

can put things up for resale.

8:21

And it could also be sold

8:26

privately as well. It's up to

8:26

you. And we ask readers to

8:33

inform us if it's done on the

8:33

blockchain. Because of the

8:39

contract, 10% will come back to

8:39

us automatically. And we are

8:43

encouraging people to put it

8:43

through or inform us of any

8:46

other sales that take place, for

8:46

the works on the blockchain. So

8:51

that

8:51

you're able to resell digital

8:59

content that you buy, and that

8:59

the author gets a percentage of

9:03

the resale value, are

9:03

significant. That means for me

9:08

that the idea of NFTs are going

9:08

to continue; that it's not going

9:13

to die because of a boom and

9:13

bust in the price of

9:16

cryptocurrencies on NFTs. Those

9:16

particular concepts mean for me

9:20

that this is going to last a

9:20

long time. And from what we've

9:24

seen of the interest so far from

9:24

authors, and from readers, this

9:29

is likely to continue for a long

9:29

time.

9:32

So we've started with our first

9:32

test with 14 books released near

9:37

the end of June. They're

9:37

currently selling and we have

9:41

one who which has sold for $100

9:41

which is ab ebook with added

9:48

content. A one of one special

9:48

edition sold for $100 which we

9:52

believe is certainly the first

9:52

ime for that to occur. I've nev

9:56

r heard of an E book selling

9:56

for $100 ever in the English sp

10:01

aking world and I bet that's a r

10:01

cord for the price of a new eb

10:04

ok. And that person who boug

10:04

t it, a fan of that author, b

10:08

lieves that they've got good va

10:08

ue that they own this one spe

10:12

ial edition. There's some really

10:12

nice material inside that

10:17

pecial edition, they believe th

10:17

y've got good value. They can a

10:20

so read the book and enjoy it

10:20

as well. And then in the fut

10:23

So that's the basic concept. I

10:23

don't think we have to worry

10:23

re, they can sell it.

10:26

about how the blockchain is put

10:26

together, just as we don't have

10:29

to worry about how our jet

10:29

engines are put together. When

10:34

we take a flight from A to B, we

10:34

just need to know that they

10:37

work. So the blockchain works.

10:37

And there's a lot of stuff

10:41

relying on the blockchain now

10:41

and more and more is going to

10:44

move in this direction, because

10:44

it's a permanent record. And

10:47

they expect a lot of contracts

10:47

are going to move in the

10:50

direction of using the

10:50

blockchain. We already have the

10:53

NFTs and our various other

10:53

things moving towards being

10:56

recorded on the blockchain. We

10:56

don't have to know exactly how

11:00

it works. As long as it works

11:00

correctly, a lot of people are

11:03

using it, we can go from A to B.

11:03

We can buy an NFT ebook. Store

11:09

it in our wallet, which you

11:09

access easily online, and then

11:17

enjoy, read the book, watch the

11:17

video files, listen to the music

11:21

contained with it, and then

11:21

resell it when we decide we want

11:25

to do that. So that just struck

11:25

me as so new and so different.

11:30

Because, as you know, you can't

11:30

resell ebooks in most places.

11:32

You could buy as many ebooks as

11:32

you like from any of the big

11:34

online stores. But you're

11:34

certainly not allowed to resell

11:38

them at any price. So that just

11:38

struck me as so new, so

11:42

different, that we really had to

11:42

get involved.

11:46

Well, thank you for that really great introduction, Laurence. I have

11:47

to agree. You know, the only way

11:52

I've ever been able to resell a

11:52

book is a paper book to a used

11:55

bookstore. And usually it's

11:55

pennies on the dollar that I

11:59

paid for it initially. Today I

11:59

think so many people are doing

12:04

ebooks. Now, I rarely buy a

12:04

print book myself, just because

12:09

I can keep 1000 ebooks in my in

12:09

my little tablet. So, you know,

12:15

when I travel, I don't have to

12:15

have a big heavy suitcase. One

12:19

of the things I would love for

12:19

you to talk about and that drew

12:22

me to your particular project,

12:22

is that when people purchase

12:26

their NFTs, they don't have to

12:26

be worrying about the

12:31

cryptocurrency because that can

12:31

be quite confusing, You know, is

12:35

$1 inow equal to point 00015 of

12:35

Ethereum Ether? Or whatever the

12:40

value is today. And so how have

12:40

you solved that problem? For

12:45

people who just, you know, they

12:45

don't want to do the whole

12:47

cryptocurrency thing. They just

12:47

want to give you their money in

12:50

dollars or pounds or euros.

12:53

Sure, that's a

12:53

really important thing. A lot of

12:57

younger people, years younger

12:57

than me, like the whole NFT

13:01

thing because it's all about

13:01

cryptocurrencies and wallets and

13:04

things which the older

13:04

generation don't know anything

13:06

about. It's like secret stuff,

13:06

which they can keep from us,

13:10

which I'm sure we were like 30

13:10

years ago. And you know, we

13:13

wanted to stuff for our

13:13

generation. But what we're doing

13:17

at Books Go Social. So this is

13:17

booksgosocial.com. You'll see

13:21

our NFTs for sale there. We have

13:21

14 NFT ebooks. What we're doing

13:26

is allowing people to buy in

13:26

dollars with PayPal or Stripe,

13:31

things that they know about.

13:31

Weare also allowing people to

13:35

get a refund within seven days,

13:35

if they don't like it. And it's

13:40

reasonable if you buy something

13:40

for 20 or 30, or 40, or even

13:44

$100 that you should be allowed,

13:44

if you open it up and you see

13:47

it's not what you expected. This

13:47

was one of the principles of the

13:51

internet at the beginning. It

13:51

was always the idea that you'd

13:53

get a refund if you didn't like

13:53

what you bought online. So we're

13:56

keeping to that. And we're doing

13:56

those two important things

14:00

allowing you to pay with PayPal

14:00

or Stripe with your credit card.

14:04

Both of which offer a refund

14:04

service. So even if you

14:07

Oh, are they going to

14:07

actually refund me? You can go

14:10

to your Stripe or PayPal account

14:10

and ask for your refund and you

14:15

will get it. So that's really

14:15

important, I think to allow

14:20

people to purchase this ebook

14:20

NFT which they can resell later

14:27

and do just with PayPal and get

14:27

back dollars. So there's no

14:32

confusion about pricing and what

14:32

do with cryptocurrency for

14:37

refunds. There's no confusion

14:37

with any of that.

14:41

After purchase we have a one

14:41

click wallet where you can

14:47

accept your NFT contract so that

14:47

you can resell that book in the

14:55

future. So that's on the WAX

14:55

blockchain and again, it's used

14:59

by William Shatner. He sold a

14:59

lot of NFTs on this system. And

15:04

it really is, it's the easiest

15:04

wallet I've seen. But that is,

15:08

afterwards when you want to take

15:08

your contract, which shows

15:12

ownership of the NFT. There is

15:12

no extra...there are no extra

15:19

fees involved at the later

15:19

stage. It's simple. If it's $25

15:24

to purchase. That's it. That's

15:24

what you paid. And we guarantee

15:28

that you can get a refund on

15:28

that money within seven days, if

15:32

you change your mind. So that

15:32

solves that problem. You do not

15:36

ohave to get involved in

15:36

cryptocurrencies unless you

15:40

want.

15:40

That's really

15:40

great. So I think what I'd like

15:44

to do is to move over to talking

15:44

about you as an author,

15:49

Laurence, because that is a big

15:49

part of the interviews that we

15:53

do here. And a great segue for

15:53

that is to ask...Well, I saw

15:59

that you've written looks like

15:59

14 or 15 books at this point. So

16:05

which one did you choose to put

16:05

on as an NFT? And why did you

16:10

choose that? And what other

16:10

content did you include with

16:13

your special edition book?

16:14

Thank you.

16:14

That's really good. So I have I

16:17

think it's about 12 books. Now,

16:17

one just came out. I did have a

16:23

nonfiction as well, but I have

16:23

12 novels. And what I put up is

16:30

the box set of A Dangerous

16:30

Emperor, which is about the life

16:35

of Constantine the Great. And

16:35

it's a fictionalized account.

16:39

And the reason I put it up is

16:39

because it's received the most

16:43

reviews, five star reviews, in a

16:43

series of my own self-published.

16:50

So HarperCollins did publish t

16:50

ree books for me at the beginnin

16:54

of my career. But these are

16:54

elf-published, which also mea

16:57

s I have the rights to do it be

16:57

ause I own the copyright and ha

17:02

e not licensed it to another c

17:02

mpany. I have the right to do it

17:08

And so I put the three boo

17:08

box set, plus an extra story. T

17:15

ere's a short story at the end,

17:15

hich is about Constantine's d

17:18

ath, which isn't included on

17:18

he books you can buy on Amazon.

17:24

o it's got an extra short story

17:24

plus a video. It's only a tw

17:29

or three minute video, explaini

17:29

g my research sources for a dan

17:36

erous Emperor. And why I decide

17:36

to write that book.

17:37

It started about 20 years ago.

17:37

And I was particularly

17:42

interested in that series for an

17:42

NFT because I was told by a

17:45

couple of people that it would

17:45

never do well. That it was

17:47

impossible to sell that. And I

17:47

didn't manage to sell it to a

17:52

publisher. But it has gone on to

17:52

get hundreds of and shockingly

17:59

good reviews. If I ever feel

17:59

down, I can go to Amazon and

18:04

look up some good reviews, which

18:04

tell me how wonderful it is and

18:09

how much people enjoyed the

18:09

book. So it's got lots of

18:13

reviews, and you get this extra

18:13

content, a video, an extra

18:17

story, get the whole box set,

18:17

which you'd have to buy

18:21

separately on Amazon. In any

18:21

case, there isn't a box set of

18:24

the members that you get in this

18:24

unique collection. And I really

18:28

enjoyed writing that series

18:28

about Constantine, I found it

18:33

like fascinating. He was the

18:33

first Christian Roman Emperor.

18:38

He introduced Christianity..well

18:38

not introduce it, he made it the

18:43

official religion of the Empire.

18:43

Up until that point, you

18:49

probably know that there were

18:49

persecutions of Christians. They

18:52

were being persecuted and thrown

18:52

to the lions. And there was a

18:55

persecution just before he, he

18:55

decided to make it the official

19:01

religion. And there's a very

19:01

famous battle. And so that's

19:04

depicted, the Battle of the

19:04

Milvian Bridge, as depicted in

19:07

some amazing paintings in Italy;

19:07

and in the rally songs about his

19:15

battle. So there's a lot of stories

19:16

about how Constantine came to

19:21

become Christian. And what I

19:21

decided to do was to turn those

19:26

stories into fiction. How he wen

19:26

from being a captive, wit

19:32

another Emperor on the far sid

19:32

of the Empire, with his fathe

19:36

almost disdaining him and no

19:36

wanting any contact with him

19:40

And then his father mysteriousl

19:40

dying in York in northern Eng

19:44

and while he was there. And him

19:44

being elevated by the troops, by

19:49

the legions being elevated in Yo

19:49

k, to become emperor of the We

19:54

t. And then him having to f

19:54

ght his way across The Empire a

19:59

d defeat his the other e

19:59

perors who were against him a

20:04

d defeat them outside of Rome a

20:04

the Battle of the Milvian Bri

20:07

ge. And so many other stories a

20:07

out his life just fascinate

20:12

me. So I used artistic

20:12

icense to fill in the gaps. So

20:16

did a lot of research over man

20:16

years, attended lectures

20:19

and classics and various

20:19

ther things and bought all the

20:22

ooks about his life. And just

20:22

really enjoyed the adventur

20:26

. I've always liked adventur

20:26

books really enjoyed that adv

20:29

nture with Constantine. It was a

20:29

completely different time.

20:33

And if you weren't careful, you

20:33

ad a sword put through you in

20:37

hose days if you said the wro

20:37

g thing. So very different

20:40

time to the very civilized, ge

20:40

erally civilized society we hav

20:46

today. But it's a big esc

20:46

pe thing as well. It's a gre

20:51

t adventure. So I hope peo

20:51

le like it. It's called A Danger

20:54

us Emperor that's on the NF

20:58

Thank you so much.

20:58

And um I will, as usual, be

21:04

sharing shots of Laurence's

21:04

books as well as all of the site

21:09

information that we've been

21:09

talking about. So history, a lot

21:13

of my readers love historical

21:13

novels. And so I'm hoping those

21:18

of you listening who do like

21:18

those might want to try this

21:22

out. And I did mention it to my

21:22

husband, who was a history major

21:25

and writer. And he said, Oh,

21:25

that sounds interesting. So I

21:30

suspect that he will be very

21:30

interested in in reading that as

21:34

well. You also have written some

21:34

science fiction, I noticed when

21:39

I was looking you up, which

21:39

makes sense. So many people I

21:43

know, who are part of the IT

21:43

industry, like science fiction.

21:48

You you mentioned William

21:48

Shatner, of Star Trek already,

21:51

of course. So I think I saw

21:51

three science fiction series. Is

21:58

that right?

21:59

I have a near

21:59

future one. The HarperCollins

22:04

series was the Istanbul Puzzle,

22:04

the Manhattan Puzzle, the

22:08

Jerusalem Puzzle and various

22:08

other puzzles. But those are

22:13

near future. Semi science

22:13

fiction novels. Most recently, I

22:20

have a novel which is about the

22:20

discovery of the Ark of the

22:24

Covenant in Ireland, which is I

22:24

know, it's a long shot, okay.

22:32

But there is some reason to

22:32

believe that the prophet

22:35

Jeremiah came to Ireland. The

22:35

current Queen Elizabeth of

22:40

England claims her royal blue

22:40

bloodline from King David,

22:46

through this connection to the

22:46

prophet Jeremiah, who escaped

22:50

Jerusalem, with two princesses

22:50

from the Jewish royal family,

22:58

and brought them to Ireland. And

22:58

so this is a story which has

23:01

been passed down in Ireland. I

23:01

was also featured on the

23:05

Discovery Channel, Discovery

23:05

Science Channel. You can find it

23:10

on there, The Secrets of the

23:10

Lost Ark is currently showing.

23:14

It came out last month talking

23:14

about this. But there are

23:17

various theories. If you liked

23:17

the Raiders of the Lost Ark

23:20

movie, you might believe that

23:20

the Arc ended up in Ethiopia,

23:24

because other people believed it

23:24

ended up in a cave in Israel

23:27

somewhere. And then there is

23:27

this theory that it might have

23:30

come to Ireland, because of the

23:30

Jewish princesses who came by

23:34

boat and traveling from the

23:34

Mediterranean to Ireland was

23:37

quite common. We have examples

23:37

of pottery and things from

23:41

Phoenician pottery in Ireland

23:41

from that area. So it's quite

23:44

common. Traveling by boat would

23:44

have been an arduous journey,

23:47

you know, taken months. But

23:47

people did it. And they were

23:50

trading in tin and various other

23:50

things like gold chain. Anyway,

23:56

so that was turned into a novel,

23:56

which is also about quantum

24:00

physics. So I bring together

24:00

quantum physics and the Ark of

24:03

the Covenant. So that's

24:03

available on Amazon at the

24:11

moment as well. So that was just

24:11

an aside. I was like writing

24:15

that, because of the pandemic.

24:15

And also because I was invited

24:20

to participate in this Discovery

24:20

Channel series to speak about

24:26

Ireland and the possibility that

24:26

the prophet Jeremiah had come

24:31

here.

24:33

Oh, well, that

24:33

does really sound fascinating.

24:38

Here in the US, of course, the

24:38

Indiana Jones series has been

24:43

very, very popular and is on

24:43

almost continuously available on

24:47

some cable channel, or Netflix

24:47

or somewhere else so people can

24:52

watch it again and again. And

24:52

this gives them another

24:55

opportunity to see another take

24:55

on some of those things. That's

24:59

Really great! So what are you

24:59

planning to do next in terms of

25:06

your author life?

25:10

Yeah, well, I

25:10

have a book I wrote about 10

25:14

years ago, which I'm going to go

25:14

back to. Now I know they say,

25:17

never go back to your first

25:17

books. But I have to tell you

25:21

that the Dangerous Emperor was

25:21

my first book. And I left it

25:27

aside for 10 years, and came

25:27

back to it and completely tore

25:31

it apart, rewrote it, got

25:31

multiple edits on it. So I'm

25:36

planning to go back to a book I

25:36

wrote 10 years ago, called

25:41

sisters, which is about some

25:41

terrible things happening around

25:47

the world about the use of

25:47

fetuses for various experiments.

25:53

I don't want to go into too much

25:53

detail about it, but some

25:56

horrible stuff that's been

25:56

hidden from us. And it's just

26:00

about facts, those things, you

26:00

know, I'm not going to be

26:03

moralistic in any way about

26:03

anything. I'm just talking about

26:07

facts and how we might need

26:07

control, particularly for young

26:10

women who are in difficulty in

26:10

this era of search called

26:13

Sisters. And it's about someone

26:13

who finds himself in difficulty

26:19

in San Francisco. And so it's

26:19

partly based in San Francisco.

26:25

And I spent a little bit of time

26:25

there visiting various places,

26:30

locations and things there, It

26:30

is based in London as well. So

26:35

it's, it's near future, what

26:35

horrible things they get up to

26:41

if you get caught up. So it says

26:41

it's a psychological thriller.

26:44

And so that's what I'm working

26:44

on. And I've got a lot of notes

26:48

to take that one forward. And I

26:48

really like uncovering and

26:53

helping people, and speak about

26:53

and have stories about things

26:57

that we don't usually talk

26:57

about, and that are difficult

27:01

things. So I know I'm jumping

27:01

around a little bit in my books,

27:05

and they advise you not to, but

27:05

unfortunately, that's where I'm

27:08

being hit by whatever it is

27:08

that's leading me this way.

27:13

Oh, well, I actually love that about you, because I'm the same. I write in

27:15

like four different genres. And

27:19

I know that that's not what

27:19

you're supposed to do. But

27:22

that's what's so great about

27:22

being independent, right? You

27:26

get to choose what you want to

27:26

do. And I think there's readers

27:31

for lots of different things. So

27:31

it's just a matter of finding

27:35

them and, and letting them know

27:35

that you are the kind of

27:38

writer...that you have the kind of voice and creative mind that they really want. So I think

27:40

it's great. It's not always the

27:44

best way to make the most money,

27:44

but we have to do what's in our

27:48

heart, for sure.

27:50

Absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that. And it's great to be independent, to

27:51

be able to keep to that and not

27:55

to have some corporation telling

27:55

you, you have to do this, and

28:00

you don't have the freedom to do

28:00

what you want. So yes, it's the

28:04

indie flag, we can wait on that one.

28:06

Absolutely. And

28:06

that actually kind of brings us

28:09

full circle around the whole NFT

28:09

movement as well. In that, you

28:15

know, authors have control of

28:15

that in being able to set their

28:20

prices and being able to resell

28:20

books, to choose to allow their

28:26

books to be resold. And all of

28:26

that I think has drawn a lot of

28:31

independent authors into that

28:31

environment. So another thing I

28:37

would just like to talk about

28:37

briefly, because you did mention

28:40

your company, Books Go Social,

28:40

which is spearheading this whole

28:45

NFT book marketplace effort. But

28:45

your company also does a lot of

28:48

other things. And I know that I

28:48

do have many authors that listen

28:53

to this podcast. And so can you

28:53

just tell us a little bit about

28:57

some of the other things that

28:57

Books Go Social offers, and that

29:02

authors may be interested in, in

29:02

knowing about?

29:05

Well, I spent

29:05

a long time studying and working

29:08

in marketing and working

29:08

specifically in IT marketing.

29:12

And after being published, I

29:12

found I had a lot of followers.

29:16

HarperCollins did some great

29:16

work with various digital

29:21

initiatives, which ended up with

29:21

me having a good following on

29:25

Twitter and Facebook and an

29:25

email following. So I started

29:31

helping other authors to market

29:31

their books. And so that was

29:35

back in 2013. And then in 2015

29:35

we started doing Amazon ads for

29:41

people and then doing Facebook

29:41

ads. So we do Amazon ads,

29:46

Facebook ads, and we also help

29:46

people to self publish. That is

29:51

not vanity publishing. As a

29:51

self-publisher, if you decide

29:54

that you want help...you want

29:54

somebody to proofread your book,

29:59

you're going to put it up on

29:59

Amazon KDP yourself, but you

30:02

need a proofreader or cover

30:02

designer, then you can select a

30:05

service that you want. Or maybe

30:05

you did a proofread already, and

30:09

you want someone to just upload

30:09

it for you. So we have a

30:12

selection of services to help

30:12

people self publish and we are

30:15

really keen on people's self

30:15

publishing. They get paid

30:20

monthly direct to their bank

30:20

account by Amazon. So there is

30:25

no publisher standing between

30:25

you telling you, you have to

30:28

wait six months for payment. You

30:28

just get paid every month.

30:31

So we're really encouraging

30:31

people to put their own books

30:34

up. But often people say, Okay,

30:34

I can do all the proofreading

30:37

and editing, but I need some

30:37

help with a cover or something

30:40

else. So we help with that. And

30:40

then we help with the marketing,

30:43

that's Amazon ads, Facebook ads,

30:43

and we have some big email lists

30:47

as well as social media followers. We do those as well. And we combine packages with all

30:50

of those services in it. And we

30:55

offer a refund service, cash

30:55

refund service, if people are

30:59

unhappy. And we generally pay

30:59

out one or two refunds every

31:03

month. There are some books

31:03

hat slip through and don't do

31:10

well. We start doing the work

31:10

on them, using our expertise,

31:13

but nobody buys them and people

31:13

want their money back. I th

31:15

nk it's really important along t

31:15

e lines of the internet, the

31:19

promise of the internet, whi

31:19

h was that if you bought somet

31:23

ing on the internet that you co

31:23

ld have your money back, if

31:26

t didn't work out. We do take

31:26

off if we've paid Amazon ads f

31:30

r you, we do take off those s

31:30

eeds. But usually they can

31:33

be stopped pretty quickly. Peopl

31:33

are unhappy with the service

31:36

and we spend only $20 or some

31:36

hing. And we also want to protec

31:40

our good name as well of c

31:40

urse because we're interested in

31:43

the long term being an ad

31:43

ertising agency for books and th

31:48

long term support for au

31:48

hors.

31:51

It's difficult now. Authors have

31:51

almost have to pay to play. They

31:57

have to do some ads to get seen.

31:57

You might be William Shakespeare

32:02

or the best writer ever. But

32:02

unless you're doing some sort of

32:05

advertising you get lost on

32:05

Amazon; and so that's why we do

32:10

a relatively modest couple of

32:10

$100 programs where we can test

32:14

ads. Ads do work most of the

32:14

time. Facebook ads work because

32:17

the whole principle of marketing

32:17

is based around the idea of

32:20

testing things first. Those are

32:20

the principles you know when you

32:26

study marketing. You're supposed

32:26

to test if you do Amazon ads.

32:30

Does it work? Do you need to

32:30

change your cover? Do you need

32:32

to change your description? Do

32:32

you need more reviews? All of

32:35

those steps we do our best to

32:35

provide a personal service as

32:39

well. There are real people

32:39

available for a phone call. All

32:45

of that to help people. So

32:45

that's that's what Books Go

32:48

Social does.

32:50

And I can actually

32:50

say I have used the service

32:53

myself and that's why I can

32:53

recommend it wholeheartedly. I

33:00

have also recommended people who

33:00

are very happy. There was one

33:04

person who did request refund

33:04

and did get it. I think you

33:08

tried your best, but it didn't generate sales. I think it's really important for me to speak

33:09

out, because people know that I

33:13

don't ever recommend something

33:13

that I have not used before

33:16

myself or that I know the people

33:16

involved. So, for those authors

33:21

who are listening, if this is

33:21

something you're interested in,

33:24

you know I do definitely

33:24

recommend this company. To be

33:28

clear, he's not paying me

33:28

anything. I'm not getting

33:31

affiliate money or anything else

33:31

for saying that. It's just

33:34

because I honestly believe that

33:34

they do the very best job they

33:37

can.

33:39

Thanks

33:40

Absolutely. So

33:40

Laurence I think that we're

33:44

about to the end of our time

33:44

here. But I do want to just give

33:49

you an opportunity. We know you

33:49

said booksgosocial.com is your

33:54

company site. Do you also have a

33:54

site for just you as an author?

34:00

You can see some of the books at

34:02

//lpobryan.com/lpobryan/

34:02

You can also find me on Amazon

34:09

at Laurence O'Bryan. That's

34:09

https://www.amazon.com/Laurence-OBryan/e/B005XIJDXY/.

34:15

You could see that Roman series.

34:15

If you like a good historical

34:18

novel, then yes, hopefully,

34:18

you'll enjoy that historical

34:24

adventure,. And it has very

34:24

prominent female characters in

34:28

it as well, who help Constantine

34:28

to achieve his goal. And they're

34:35

not mentioned in the history

34:35

books, of course very rarely.

34:39

Just as he had a he had a wife

34:39

isn't mentioned much. But I can

34:43

assure you a young and powerful

34:43

man in his 30s leading the

34:48

legions would have powerful and

34:48

important women around him as

34:53

well. It's, it's, it's most

34:53

likely true. So, hopefully,

35:00

you'll be interested. It is

35:00

suitable for everyone. There is

35:06

some violence in it, but it's

35:06

not about battles. It's about

35:09

the personal relationships and

35:09

who helped him overcome enemies,

35:13

and to the Christians who helped

35:13

him in his cause as well. So

35:17

that's it. I hope you like that

35:17

adventure story.

35:21

Wonderful. Thank

35:21

you everyone for listening. And

35:24

as usual, I will have all of

35:24

these URLs in the show notes and

35:28

it will be in part of the

35:28

transcript. So thank you for

35:32

Conversations with Authors.