0:00

What I love is ReRelease didn't realize that

0:02

she was taking the wrong dose of these hormones

0:04

for, like, the last week or --

0:06

Yeah. -- just a few days. So

0:08

she's, like, I was just so emotional on these

0:10

hormones. Yeah. And then found out she was

0:12

actually microdosing. Yeah. She was like,

0:14

oh,

0:14

wow. Let's get ready for that real dose.

0:17

I know you're right now.

0:19

Oh my gosh. Let's

0:25

dive out together. See

0:27

where it's all Hi,

0:40

and welcome to Dyking Out a podcast

0:42

that sees women as subjects and not objects

0:45

except for Marishka Hargate. I'm

0:47

ReRelease and I'm Melody Kamali.

0:49

And today, we're diking out with

0:51

writer, author, and critic Valerie

0:53

complex about the female gaze.

0:56

How you doing? What's up? We are so

0:58

happy to have you here, Valerie. You guys can

1:00

read Valerie's work all over the Internet and

1:02

a lot of big name

1:04

publications. I don't know. Name name

1:06

a few. Uh-huh. Variety. Yeah.

1:09

IGN. The nerdest, father,

1:11

that Mary Sue If you

1:13

just Google, Valerie Hamblatt quarter.

1:16

So many things will come up

1:18

and they all are wonderful

1:21

reads a lot of them focus on inclusion

1:23

in film, television, and theater. And

1:26

she's also a military veteran, which is

1:28

cool. I was in the Air Force for

1:30

seven years. Wow. Yep.

1:32

Cool. Cool. I'm excited to hear more

1:34

about your path to where you

1:36

are right now, but first a couple quick announcements.

1:39

Our next show at Stonewall is

1:41

Monday, March thirtieth. And on the lineup,

1:44

we have past guests like Taylor Ortega. Sydney

1:47

Washington and Janine

1:49

Gerofalo. Melody

1:52

is excited because you haven't

1:54

met Janine yet. I haven't had a joy

1:56

of meeting Janine Ruffalo and

1:59

been in the same room as

2:00

her. She tends to

2:01

kind of like scoop out the door right after

2:03

she does a set on comedy shows.

2:04

Yeah. So

2:05

I'm excited to have her trapped backstage with me.

2:07

Yeah. I just saw her last night,

2:09

actually, on a show. And she's

2:12

very

2:12

funny, but very much Janine Grofflow.

2:16

She just started talking about her

2:18

spanx for a long time

2:20

on stage. No. You know, she kind of

2:22

sat down in the audience to do it. Cool.

2:25

She's kind of roaming around the room. She likes

2:27

to explore. She's very in the moment

2:30

and that's what I love about her. Also,

2:33

you know, at our Stonewall shows, we

2:35

sometimes have giveaways. I forgot

2:37

to mention this the last episode,

2:39

but I thought it was really funny that we are giving

2:41

away tickets to see Shelley

2:43

Wright at Citi Vineyard on

2:46

March eighth, which? I

2:48

guess we would have just seen the show when

2:51

you guys are listening to it because we're going to the show too.

2:53

Yes. So Shelley Wright is, you know, I know nothing

2:55

about country music or almost nothing, but

2:57

I know about Shelley Wright because she was

3:00

one of the first, I believe, technically the third

3:03

out lesbian in country music

3:05

and took a huge hit in her

3:07

career for that. And there's

3:09

like a documentary made about her and whatever.

3:11

So when we're giving away these tickets, like,

3:14

a lot of people in the room, like, they, I

3:16

guess, didn't know who

3:18

who she was or what? And I was like, you guys, she

3:20

could be, like, backstage right now for surprise

3:23

performance and, like,

3:25

You guys are just sitting there really quiet.

3:28

Yeah. Next time,

3:29

just lose your mind and pretend you're in

3:31

the room. If we're giving that stuff away, just

3:33

out nuts like how these are

3:35

like great tickets to a very intimate show that's

3:37

gonna be awesome. So anyway,

3:40

we're excited about that show and

3:42

you shouldn't look up, Shelley

3:44

Wright. Yeah.

3:44

Watch her documentary, which, you know, I still

3:46

haven't watched, but mine say

3:48

country loving girlfriend has been reminding

3:50

me every day that we need to preparation

3:52

for the show this

3:53

Sunday. Yes. She's very excited.

3:56

She's a big deal. And she has a certain show.

3:58

Yeah. I mean, I know she's a big deal

4:00

specifically because Karina,

4:02

who used to be our intern, is also

4:05

gonna be at concert and is obsessed

4:07

with Shelley. I think mostly because she kind of

4:10

Celine Dion, but

4:13

which is a a fine reason to be obsessed

4:16

with somebody.

4:19

Mhmm. No matter. I I'm seeing this leaned

4:21

young.

4:22

Oh, yeah. You must see it a little bit. Right?

4:24

little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Buddy. Yeah.

4:26

She's very beautiful and she

4:28

used to date Brad Paisley

4:31

while she was living with

4:33

her girlfriend. Yeah.

4:36

Sounds like lesbian drama to me.

4:38

Yes. Yes. Lots of lesbian drama.

4:40

That was one of our trivia question. At the

4:42

show -- Yeah. -- with a ticket giveaway. Who was her

4:44

beard? Who was her beard? And someone was,

4:46

like, brat baseline. So yeah. There were

4:48

people who knew her. Just be, like, loud one,

4:50

you know a lesbian. Speaking

4:53

of Stonewall, you know, last episode we

4:55

talked about how Melody

4:57

got scoped at the show by an audience

5:00

member, which was not

5:02

cool again reminded. We still

5:04

haven't had that listener write in to

5:06

apologize. If you

5:08

group Melody at Stonewall, you can

5:10

send us an email at Dyking at

5:13

gmail dot com and apologize profusely.

5:17

And then we will blacklist you from

5:19

future

5:19

shows. Just

5:19

wanna just wanna identify you.

5:22

Yeah.

5:22

Yeah. Did just get an email from a listener

5:25

who didn't quite like how we talked

5:27

about the incident last

5:29

episode. Right. What?

5:32

I should pull it up.

5:34

So from what I remember from reading

5:36

this email, they didn't like that

5:38

we blamed the incident on

5:41

this person forming

5:43

toxic masculinity. And they

5:45

said, why when somebody's

5:47

an asshole do you have to blame it on

5:49

men? Also would like to note that this person

5:52

didn't say, sorry that this happened to you.

5:53

Yeah. No trace of that. No trace of

5:55

that. Of course, women can be

5:58

assholes and have it not be men's

6:00

fault, but when the action is

6:02

treating a woman as an object and

6:04

walking by her and grabbing her ass,

6:07

if you took a survey of, like,

6:09

who would be more likely to do that to a woman

6:11

they're attracted

6:12

to? It's men. Right. Right.

6:14

Do you do you agree? I mean, after

6:16

that. Being groped by woman being Yeah.

6:19

You know, if it wasn't consensual. You

6:21

know, it's consensual.

6:22

Oh, this was just, like, a sneak attack on

6:25

a g street. Outside of our show. Yeah.

6:27

That's like they did it and laughed and

6:29

laughed afterwards. With her front and

6:31

just, like, giggled and ran away. Yeah.

6:34

So, you know, we can't know what was

6:36

going on that person's mind, and that person probably

6:38

wouldn't even recognize it as performing

6:40

toxic masculinity. But I think

6:42

that's a safe assumption to say that that

6:45

has something to do with it. And sometimes

6:47

we talk in sweeping generalizations

6:50

on this podcast, but that's how

6:53

you have to criticize things

6:55

like toxic masculinity. If the whole time

6:57

we are just like not all men and not all

6:59

times, then the critic is

7:02

a lot weaker and falls

7:04

flat. And our job isn't to defend

7:07

toxic behavior from men. But

7:09

that's a a lot of stuff like that

7:11

is learned from men. I don't believe that if

7:14

men weren't regularly groping

7:16

women, that women would

7:18

do

7:18

this. True. Yeah. And this person

7:20

seemed to be really concerned that we

7:23

aren't looking at people as individuals that

7:25

was something in the email. We need to

7:28

assess people based on their character and their

7:30

personal actions not attribute a

7:32

group identity to

7:33

them, but That's just how society works.

7:36

Yeah. I know we -- Yeah. -- don't

7:37

have a term for every individual problematic

7:39

behavior that everybody

7:41

problematic individual has done.

7:43

Yeah. Like, that's

7:44

just kinda, like, social

7:46

101I think. But, honestly,

7:48

we don't appreciate your feedback. We do there because

7:51

now we get to talk about this. And

7:53

and this isn't the first time that we've had

7:55

this

7:55

feedback, and it's you know, something

7:58

that's worth addressing and talking about. Right.

8:00

And I'm definitely yeah. Appreciative, open

8:02

to hearing better. But also at the end of the day,

8:04

this is a podcast called diking out.

8:07

You know, this isn't like I

8:09

know this listener wrote in that we were creating

8:11

a very us versus them kind

8:13

of world, but it's like

8:15

we didn't create that Yeah. They

8:17

did, but not to put that back on

8:19

the men, but I am. You know? Like

8:21

-- Right. -- right. We're gonna

8:24

Dyking and we're gonna call it

8:26

out. And it's also just our opinions,

8:28

and we're just too stand up Lesbians at the end

8:30

of the day. Well, I

8:31

mean, you know, people say, oh, angry,

8:34

feminist lesbians. Yes.

8:37

Yeah. One reason.

8:40

With reason with with reason, you know, everybody

8:42

associates, you know, feminism and anger

8:44

with lesbianism for some odd reason.

8:47

And isn't that also like a generalization? It's

8:49

like, Yeah. I mean, that says individuals. We're

8:51

all and we're yes. We are Lesbians

8:54

and we are individuals. I mean, if you're gonna if you

8:56

want us to apply the same logic, then

8:58

do so. But they don't. Right. So

9:00

-- Yeah. -- it's always on us

9:03

to make corrections instead of them. Yeah.

9:05

So it's bullshit. Yeah. Total

9:08

Oh, yes. Okay. Please. wasn't sure if it was, like, PG

9:10

or whatever.

9:12

No. No. No. No. No. Not since

9:14

I got on my episode in August. Masterbation

9:18

was the topic for mine.

9:21

And then we got a listener email

9:24

And they're like, after listening to the

9:26

masturbation episode, I feel like I don't

9:28

masturbate nearly as much as

9:30

other people. And then I found myself, like,

9:32

writing this email to six year old

9:35

about masturbation. And then I'm, like, so that

9:37

he can arrest me. It's just,

9:39

like I was at first, I was just, like, oh, listen

9:41

to your email, you know, and, like, you don't think about

9:43

things. And then after I hit send, I'm like,

9:45

did I just talk to a sixteen year old

9:47

about masturbation?

9:49

Yeah. Like, I don't think I said anything inappropriate

9:51

or, like, explicit.

9:53

Okay. Yeah. She is from France too.

9:55

I feel like Oh, yeah.

9:57

That's that's a whole other That's probably why

9:59

I didn't even think of it. Yeah.

10:01

As a No.

10:02

I'm getting emails out that comment. I know

10:04

it. Well, a more

10:07

fun thing is that I went to my neighborhood's

10:09

Irish pride parade that

10:12

my neighbors invited me to.

10:14

And I thought when they said Irish

10:17

pride, I was Dyking, like, gay

10:19

Irish people because when you put pride after

10:21

something, I just automatically assume that it's

10:24

gay. Mhmm. And then when we

10:26

got there, there were some

10:28

rainbow flags and stuff, but I'm like, oh, wait,

10:30

is this just like because we live in

10:32

a neighborhood with a lot of Irish people,

10:35

and it's just like, pride in being

10:37

Irish. Mhmm. And then I

10:39

asked them about it, and it

10:41

was both. It was both. It was

10:43

a reaction to the official Saint Patrick'sapa

10:46

aide. I think back in nineteen ninety nine wouldn't let

10:48

gay people march under Rainbow

10:52

banner gay Irish people

10:53

-- Mhmm. -- who wanted to do that. And just recently

10:55

in Staten Island -- Oh,

10:57

I saw that. -- Staten Island is because

11:00

now in the Saint Patrick they

11:01

prayed, they they allowed gay people to

11:04

march under a rainbow flag. In

11:05

Staten Island, they wouldn't let I think miss

11:08

Staten Island, who's bisexual, be

11:10

Yeah. She came out as bisexual and they said she couldn't

11:12

participate in the

11:13

parade. In the parade. The

11:15

statin Dyking, I'm shocked. Right.

11:17

Right. Yeah. If if you don't know listeners

11:19

because know a lot of you are international too,

11:22

Staten Island, in this, like,

11:24

liberal ish bubble

11:26

that we have in New York. Staten

11:28

Island is like

11:31

Trump country. Yeah.

11:33

It was in an island on their own.

11:35

Somehow, they all they all ended up there.

11:37

So they kept having this prayed

11:39

in my neighborhood anyways and it had

11:42

a lot of queer groups

11:44

and it was a lot of families out

11:47

to see those with their kids, and it

11:49

was just such beautiful event

11:51

and AOC was there. Hello?

11:54

So exciting. Yeah.

11:57

I got to, like, very briefly interact

11:59

with her and then Cecilia

12:02

got a picture with her

12:04

and talked to her in Spanish and was excited.

12:07

And she was being so cute.

12:09

She was, like, crashing down and talking to

12:11

all the kids and I don't

12:13

know. I just really enjoy

12:16

AOC and feel lucky that she is

12:18

my congressional rep. It's pretty

12:20

fucking cool. Also, because I'm on

12:23

hormones as you guys know because of starting

12:25

the egg retrieval

12:28

freezing process. I

12:30

cried three times during the

12:32

parade. Oh. Seeing AOC

12:34

talk to kids that made me emotional. A

12:36

second time when this one

12:39

SUV was in the parade

12:41

Dyking by slowly and in the back

12:43

was this queer, gender, nonconforming kid

12:46

playing the ukulele singing into like

12:48

a mic that was plugging to an amp.

12:50

So that means I'm assuming

12:53

his parents paid for that

12:55

spot in the parade so

12:57

that their child could

12:59

sit in the trunk, Dyking their their

13:01

music, and I started crying because

13:04

it was the sweetest thing. This kid looked kinda

13:06

emoey, and I don't

13:08

know, really tucked in my heartstrings. And

13:11

then this other van

13:13

went by that was, like, remember the Triangle

13:15

Fire And I kind forgot about the Triangle

13:18

Fire, and then I felt bad, and then

13:20

started crying. So So

13:23

I've been having I'm not even on the strong

13:25

stuff yet. I'm just, like, on an estrogen

13:28

patch and some human growth hormone.

13:30

And I am getting

13:33

very I'm getting emotional just thinking about

13:35

the triangle fire, you guys?

13:37

The factory fire, a lot of people die. What

13:39

I love is ReRelease didn't realize that she was

13:41

taking the wrong dose of these hormones for,

13:44

like, the last week or Yeah. Yeah. Just

13:46

a few days. So she's like, oh, I'm just

13:48

so emotional on these

13:49

hormones. Yeah. And then found out she was

13:51

actually microdosing. Alex

13:53

was like, oh,

13:54

wow. Let's get ready for that real dose.

13:56

I hate your I know.

13:58

Oh my gosh. I'm I'm bracing for,

14:01

I think, a week from now is when I start

14:03

the the heavy duty stuff and

14:06

I've already crying so much in public

14:08

just just thinking about things you

14:10

guys. So Speaking

14:13

of things worth crying over Valerie,

14:15

you met Desiree Akavon at the portrait

14:17

of a lady on fire premier.

14:20

It was it was a well,

14:23

yes. I guess I guess you could call it a

14:25

premier because

14:26

Alright. Well, yeah. I mean, it was the

14:28

way that they rolled that movie out is so weird.

14:30

Yes. That was it was because it came out,

14:32

like, a while ago, and I know people who was

14:34

up months ago, in New York, but then

14:36

it had, like, the wider release

14:39

and then the Angelica Theatre in

14:41

New York. We'll often have these

14:44

q and a's with directors

14:46

of movies, once that I accidentally snuck

14:48

in on one and I felt really

14:51

bad about it because it was sold out and I think

14:53

I took somebody's seats, but

14:55

I'd, like, just seen a movie and it was

14:57

for Colette. Mhmm. And I saw the poster for

14:59

Colette. I'm like, well, this looks interesting. So my wife

15:01

and I are like, I wanna just go see another movie

15:03

and sit in the theater. Mhmm. And then

15:05

it was like the fucking q

15:07

and a director writer team

15:09

there and it was so full and we're

15:11

like, oops. See. Was the update

15:13

at that time? Maybe they didn't have a signed meeting. They

15:15

do

15:15

now. Yes. They all do now.

15:18

As they should. Yeah. Because of

15:20

just terrible people, like my wife and

15:22

I double

15:25

dipping at the movies. So anyway, yeah,

15:27

tell us about the because we we talked a little

15:29

bit about how much we love

15:31

portrait of lady on

15:32

fire. And you got to moderate the

15:34

q and a?

15:35

Yeah. I agree. I know what do you guys like about it.

15:38

Well, what did Okay. Well What did we not?

15:40

Nothing. Yeah. This is the kind question

15:42

is that. When I

15:44

saw the movie at Can, it was It was

15:46

under some interesting circumstances because Candice

15:49

and a sauce thing experience --

15:51

Yeah. -- because the whole

15:54

thing is, like, three miles wide.

15:56

Yeah. You can go see movies pretty much anywhere.

15:58

They have three different film festivals going on at

16:00

the same time. Right. And so that

16:03

night, I went to go see the last showing. It was,

16:05

like, ten thirty at night. I was tired.

16:07

I was already upset, and then I had gotten

16:09

into argumentless security because they didn't want me to bring

16:12

gum in there, and they were treating me like shit.

16:14

Gum? Yeah. They

16:16

don't want you to mess up.

16:17

Listen. They were just being racist. Yeah.

16:20

Yeah. This is incredibly racist. What what

16:22

is it? Singapore France in

16:24

Singapore, you can't chew gum on the

16:25

streets. But in in France, there

16:27

is, like, they don't want you

16:29

to bring, like, food or drink or anything

16:31

-- Yeah. --

16:31

the thing. But I'm, like, gum --

16:33

Yeah. -- they would know they were just being

16:35

assholes. Sure. Sure. Wasn't.

16:37

Yeah. It was ten thirty at nine. I was like, well,

16:39

I know this is like a a thing about Lesbians,

16:41

so let's see whatever. I

16:44

wasn't too impressed with the

16:46

optics of

16:46

it. I was like,

16:47

like, this is a bunch of white folks and whatever.

16:49

I'm like, this is can, whatever whatever. Yes.

16:51

And then I got in there. was packed. I sat

16:53

in the front row in the very

16:55

last open seat that was

16:57

in the theater was

16:58

packed. It was, like, three hundred people. Yes.

17:00

Yeah. And when the movie was over, I

17:02

was, like, Whoa. I was like, holy

17:04

shit. And then I went and I talked my

17:06

roommates ear off for about an hour about it.

17:09

And ever since then, I had, like, champion the film

17:11

and then I had been talking about the film and talking

17:13

about the film, and then I interviewed them at TIFF.

17:15

Still talking about it, and then I went to see it. Yeah. I've

17:18

seen the movie, like, thirty times.

17:20

Between screeners and theater

17:23

since May, I've seen it, like, three times. And I

17:25

plan on seeing it again this week. Yeah. It's

17:27

when it'll see again. Filmed.

17:29

But -- Yeah. -- I reached out to them actually

17:32

about, you know, doing a q and a.

17:34

And I didn't think they were gonna get back to me because

17:36

I thought they were mad at me because I had went around

17:38

them to get an interview, the studio near

17:40

me. Sure. Sure. Went around them to get an interview, and

17:42

then but they were like, yeah. Why not? And I was

17:44

like, oh, yeah. And then we did this q and

17:46

a and it was super comfortable

17:49

and and, you know, she seemed to be

17:51

in a comfort zone because we knew each other

17:53

Yeah. But also It wasn't just with Celine.

17:56

Okay. It

17:56

was just with Celine. The other

17:57

Who's the director right now?

18:00

Naomi Merlant. They after LA,

18:02

think they did some press stuff in LA, and

18:04

they they

18:05

are done. They

18:05

were done. That would be awesome. LA is just

18:07

another -- Yeah. -- process

18:09

exhausting. Well, but

18:10

also LA is just another LA

18:12

is not like here. Like Yeah.

18:15

-- here, you can go outside. You can smoke. You can

18:17

chill. People are not gonna really bother you. Yeah.

18:19

But over there, they they're weird. You know,

18:21

it's a very cult personality and celebrity over

18:23

there, and they they didn't understand that.

18:25

Yeah. So, like, kinda creeped him out. But Selena

18:27

was like, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going.

18:30

And she said, I asked her questions that she hadn't

18:32

been asked on the press

18:33

tour. Yeah. And I think that's important to,

18:36

you know, find something new and not boring.

18:38

Can

18:38

you tell us what you asked her? Yeah.

18:42

I'm a prefaceist by saying that I think that

18:44

I like me on lot and I like the people there.

18:46

Mhmm. I I think that they could have done

18:48

a better job with actually promoting it

18:50

to specifically queer audiences.

18:52

And what mean by that is, you know, we have

18:54

different organizations here like OutFEST and

18:57

and and NewFEST and everything. And

18:59

I'm sure those people were trying to reach out to Neo

19:01

four, like, curated screenings. Let's

19:03

talk to the in a in a queer environment,

19:06

but that didn't happen. And Mhmm. So

19:08

when I was thinking about Lesbians I was thinking about,

19:10

you know, because I wanted to ask her who was the top.

19:12

But I was like, that's not appropriate. If nobody

19:14

had already asked her that four. I know.

19:17

And I love the answer. And I

19:19

I was like, okay. So that's out of the way. So I

19:21

was like, well, let me spoil her. They're both tops. Okay.

19:23

It's equality, and she says

19:25

it is. But I asked her

19:28

about Sophie who's the maid. I was

19:30

like, how did that fit into this

19:32

relationship with the

19:33

two. How did you plan that out? Because I was

19:35

like, that's very important because

19:36

-- Yeah. -- different type of relationship.

19:38

So did I -- Yes. -- so much. You know,

19:40

all the characters are my favorite, but I like

19:43

the sisterhood and camaraderie they have

19:45

with someone who would be considered lower class.

19:47

Yeah. Like, it just was not. It wasn't a

19:49

thing. It was an equality thing. Yeah.

19:52

And I asked her about, like, the

19:54

blocking because, you know, each scene is blocking

19:56

the earth. Different people standing in different

19:58

places and and how that creates levels

20:00

and sort of like a thing of beauty

20:02

and and stuff like that. I asked her really about

20:05

the making of the film and how do you come

20:07

up with characters like this and their circumstances?

20:09

Because it could have just been two girls in Versailles.

20:12

Right? Right. But it was like, okay.

20:14

So we have this

20:15

done. This former nun, and we have this

20:17

painter. And how did you come up with those

20:19

circumstances? I love

20:20

me a former nun. Let me tell you.

20:22

And we talked about

20:24

the female gaze, of course, which I know she had been

20:26

asked. But -- Yes. -- I asked her about, like,

20:29

how did she manage to circumvent the

20:31

other gazes and create something

20:34

new and different. Yeah. I didn't have

20:36

that much time, but I those are the questions that

20:38

I kind of asked her.

20:39

Great question. Because I wanted to be out of the normal

20:41

people were like, so tell us about the sex scene and

20:43

just -- Right. -- I'm like, what do you need to know?

20:46

They're a kiss thing. She put a hand in our bit. Like,

20:48

what you know, Are people like, yeah. How

20:50

did Sophie end up pregnant? I was what?

20:53

Like, how do people end up like, you know? Yeah.

20:55

Just you know? And I noticed that on the

20:57

press tour, they were talking to a lot of men. And

20:59

Those interviews suck. Yeah. Because they

21:01

because they just they you know, it's a lot

21:03

of men asking about the

21:05

female gays and what it

21:07

is and why it's so revolutionary

21:11

or why it's so feminist and so angry

21:14

or whatever, you know, angry.

21:16

Yeah. You know, because the world revolves

21:18

around men and their gays. And when anything

21:20

outside of that exists, they don't get

21:23

it. Yeah. And you're like, well, why can't

21:25

it just be a movie about people instead of

21:27

the female gaze. And I'm like, well, what?

21:29

I told me that starts three

21:31

women. So

21:33

the discussion about the female gaze is really

21:36

important, but I think portrait of a lady

21:38

on fire made it very clear what that looks

21:40

like -- Yeah. -- in a queer sense and

21:42

just in a woman's sense as well. Because

21:45

we see what happens when a woman

21:48

directs a film period.

21:51

Right. Right. When we look at

21:53

the suicide squad versus birds of

21:55

prey, and a lot of guys are kinda

21:57

like, oh, Harley Quinn lose you know,

21:59

she's not sixty enough. Well, if

22:01

you, you know, weren't an asshole, you would realize

22:03

that Harley Quinn is actually wearing birds

22:05

of prey. Yeah. Then she is in the suicide

22:07

squad, but because it's for your gaze in

22:09

the first film. Yeah. That's all you care

22:11

about. Yeah. And suddenly

22:14

it went from, oh, she's sexy to now as a feminist

22:16

agenda. Yeah. And that's how a lot of people

22:18

feel about stuff like that is that they think that

22:20

there's this agenda to isolate

22:23

men and not give them what

22:25

they want. Sorry. I mean, a film

22:27

like portrait lighting on fires for

22:29

everybody. But lot of you know, especially

22:31

in France, they were like not enough TNA.

22:33

Yep.

22:34

Not I heard about that too. That France didn't

22:36

find it sexy enough. Really? Yeah.

22:38

Because they have stuff like blue is the warmest

22:40

color we've got. That's mess. Yeah.

22:42

That's what I we talk about that in

22:45

our lesbian sex scene episode about

22:47

how male gazey

22:50

that was and that just

22:52

ruined it. It ruined it. It it could have

22:55

been like such a beautiful movie and such a

22:57

beautiful story. But the male gaze

22:59

was, like, so present

23:02

in it that I feel

23:04

like there's no

23:05

Any clear one watching is would

23:07

be, like, I really don't understand

23:09

how people like this movie. Yeah. Especially, like,

23:11

queer -- Yeah. -- women because it's

23:14

a movie that's not even for you.

23:17

Yes.

23:17

It exists for someone else. Yeah.

23:20

It would be really uncomfortable. And and

23:22

just to back up, like, defining, you

23:24

know, male gaze versus female gaze.

23:26

My understanding of it has been kind

23:28

of what I said in the intro of

23:30

women being treated

23:32

as objects versus

23:34

subjects. And Celinethia, I'm a says that. She said

23:36

it's treating them as subjects

23:38

and not as objects which the

23:40

male gaze does when you look at filmed

23:43

like atomic blonde. I mean, I'm

23:45

like, do women who love women really

23:47

do all that? No. But

23:49

a film like Atomic One, who is it really

23:51

for? Mhmm. You know, it's not for me. Yeah.

23:54

You know, it's a film directed by men, for

23:56

men, about a woman. Yeah. Who

23:58

just happens to, like, women as well. And, you you

24:00

know, it's not something that's particularly

24:02

well done. I feel like every few years we get

24:05

decent films about women

24:07

who love women, and that's it. We

24:09

had a few outliers, and that's it.

24:11

Yeah. You know, you have a variety of Carol, you have

24:13

the handmaiden, which is, you know, up

24:15

for debate between a lot of people. You know,

24:17

you have portrait lady on fire. You have a freaky

24:20

and a couple of others. Disobedience. Disobedience.

24:23

But everything in between that

24:24

is, like, either really bad -- Yeah.

24:27

-- or from the male gaze.

24:29

Yeah. They're not, you know, in Portugly don't

24:31

fry, they're not really you know, they're not treated as objects

24:33

as if they were, then we'd see all kind of stuff,

24:36

you know, all over the place. And

24:38

it will more likely be a story about, you know,

24:40

to aristocratic females

24:42

who fall in love and have a time of sex

24:45

and one of them dies, you

24:47

know. But it's it it's a film that

24:49

Aileen Syama says of VoIP's convention because

24:52

it's a different type of ending the

24:54

way that sex and sexuality is

24:56

treated -- Mhmm. -- is different.

24:58

And you can just sort of tell

25:00

that there's a specific gaze

25:02

there, even in films like hustlers where

25:05

you can tell is directed by a woman,

25:07

you know, even though it's a film about stripping.

25:09

Yeah. It's still very it's still has

25:12

the female gaze there and it doesn't feel

25:14

like objectification. Not objectifying

25:16

woman is not hard. It's not hard.

25:18

Right. But because the film and television industry

25:21

has dominated by white cis

25:23

men. This is what we get.

25:25

Yeah. An interesting thing that

25:28

I heard Celine talk about

25:30

on an interview was that

25:32

even as a woman,

25:35

it is very challenging to

25:38

write something from the standpoint of

25:40

the female gaze because so

25:43

much of what we see and what

25:45

we consume and how screenwriting

25:48

and film and storytelling is

25:50

even taught is from

25:53

a male gaze perspective so

25:55

that she had to do like a lot of work

25:57

and really think about every

26:00

element of the film from the standpoint

26:02

of not objectifying and,

26:05

like, who is this serving. You

26:07

get you know, imagine writing on a list of all

26:09

the things that are, like, included in

26:11

the male gaze, that long listening. You're like, okay.

26:13

So I'm not doing that. Yeah. And then you gotta

26:15

sit there and be like, okay. Well, then what do I do?

26:17

Yeah. Right. And how do I how do I formulate

26:20

this? And that's, I think, one of the things that makes

26:22

the movie so great is that you could tell it was

26:24

thought out really well. It took her, like,

26:26

years to write it, and it went well thought

26:29

out. And, like, everything was very

26:31

detailed. And I'm like, I wish I could write

26:33

like that. Like Yeah. Because, you

26:35

know, even parts of my story that I'm writing,

26:37

I'm like, okay. So I see where this is a little

26:39

hazy and I don't wanna do that.

26:42

But even the concept of, like,

26:44

female friendships is seen from the male

26:46

case, and I think that you'll very, really

26:48

do films portray even female

26:50

friendships. Until book smart properly.

26:52

Right? Right. Until book smart. And it's, like, directed

26:54

by a woman.

26:55

Directed by a woman. And it's, like, you know, two

26:57

ladies can be friends, two lesbians can

26:59

be just friends. Like -- Yeah. -- you know, there

27:01

doesn't have to be anything sexual

27:04

between them. And I think we

27:07

are we are taught as women to

27:09

exist within patriarchy.

27:12

We have to navigate it. They don't have to do

27:14

that. For us, we have to do that for our

27:16

survival. Right. So when creating

27:18

a story like that, I can see why it would be difficult

27:20

to take forever to write because you

27:23

have to let go of, you know, everything that you've

27:25

been indoctrinated to know and

27:27

learn to write something that doesn't

27:29

do

27:29

that. But France is also a very racist,

27:32

sexist, xenophobic society.

27:34

Yes.

27:35

Yeah. And I am not shy about

27:37

saying that because I've

27:38

been there several times and I see it. Oh,

27:41

I mean, people My dad my dad lives

27:43

there. Half my family's from from France,

27:45

and I guess I'm I'm technically a citizen.

27:48

And I

27:48

was a citizen

27:49

of France. Yes.

27:51

You speak French? We And So

27:54

you didn't have to read the subtitles then. Yeah.

27:56

Well, I was saying, Melody, I asked her, but I'm,

27:58

like, when the words are on the screen.

28:00

I like, my eyes get drawn

28:02

there anyway, but it sometimes I was

28:05

Dyking, like, a very conscious effort, like,

28:07

do not look at the subtitles. I'm

28:09

not fluent because I never

28:11

have spent more than, like, two weeks there

28:14

at time and grew up speaking mostly English. Whatever.

28:16

But it's a super

28:19

xenophobic race. Like, all the

28:21

iss, France has a reputation

28:24

for that, and especially for people

28:26

who aren't from friends who go there to

28:28

visit and the experiences that

28:31

they have, you know, know a lot

28:33

of black people who have gone there

28:35

and have been, like, followed around stores

28:37

--

28:38

Yeah. -- canned

28:38

man. Yeah. -- canned was like because, you

28:40

know, they treat the African. They're like crap. Right?

28:43

Yeah. And so they figure

28:45

out places they've colonized. Right.

28:47

And now they're mad that they

28:49

live in France. And it's like they

28:52

look at everybody who's, like, darker

28:54

than a paper bag, and then they think that

28:56

we're all from the same place. Yeah. Yeah.

28:58

So, you know, I go in there and I try to be

29:00

nice speak a little French so I can greet somebody

29:03

and I can get some stuff, but that

29:05

didn't work after a while and I had to just start

29:07

speaking English because I needed to assert

29:09

that I was western -- Mhmm. -- and

29:11

that I could speak English -- Yeah. -- and

29:13

that I'm not gonna take you bullshit. Yeah.

29:15

So

29:17

It was a little easier when I just stopped

29:19

speaking French -- Yeah. -- which is wild.

29:22

Yeah. Yeah. But I could see

29:24

that. They

29:24

don't love Middle Easterners

29:25

either. They don't Like, anybody in town

29:27

had the nastiest place. Were there.

29:30

Really? Oh, yeah. Such a bitch to

29:32

me. Like straight up told me she would not help

29:34

me. I had to follow her

29:36

around just in French asking for my size

29:38

in this shoe and she

29:39

just, like, refused. But then I saw her going

29:41

and greeting and helping other white customers.

29:44

It's a big part of why I don't speak to my dad anymore

29:47

because honestly, since he moved back

29:49

to France, he is, like,

29:51

so xenophobic against people

29:53

from, like, the Middle East or Alturia or whatever.

29:56

And I I want nothing to do with it.

29:58

I'm just like, nope. This

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31:44

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credit scores. Now, thankfully,

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33:09

all over, you know, the continent of Africa and

33:11

a lot of people speaking French and that's that's your

33:13

fault. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's not -- Yeah.

33:15

-- you know, but I when I

33:18

hopefully knock on wood, some wood or

33:20

whatever. So even if I'm gonna be going back

33:22

this year. And now I know how to navigate

33:24

it little bit better.

33:25

Yeah.

33:26

Because I would be standing on

33:28

the street and, like, people would think I'm scalping

33:30

tickets. And I was

33:31

like, I I have a badge on, like,

33:33

what Really? But yeah.

33:35

I mean, whatever, but it also

33:37

doesn't help that the French are, like,

33:39

extremely unfiltered. Like,

33:42

I remember even just, like, going there lot

33:44

as as a kid and as a teenager. I

33:47

would come out of, like, a dressing room at

33:49

a store and some random

33:51

woman who's just shopping there would come over and

33:53

tell me that I was too fat to pull off the dress

33:55

that was wearing. Like, they're just

33:57

very forthcoming about their thoughts and

33:59

aren't really concerned about who's gonna

34:02

be.

34:02

Well, see this thing. And that's why, like,

34:04

I believe,

34:05

like, to combine that with racism. Right.

34:07

And the sexism. And and xenophobia.

34:09

Yeah. I believe that, you know,

34:12

that's why they didn't really understand

34:14

and take to the concept of the female gaze

34:16

because they're even their women are

34:18

so indoctrinated Yeah.

34:20

Dream wants Brigipardo. Brigipardo.

34:24

Kath Catherine Danove. Danove.

34:26

Yeah. Sucks. A whole bunch of

34:28

them. And it's like, are French white women over

34:30

fifty? Like, what is happening? And as

34:32

you saw recently, I don't know if you noticed what happened

34:34

at the Caesar Awards. I did

34:35

Yeah. I was

34:36

waiting for us to just start talking about that. Yes.

34:38

I retweeted you from the diking out account

34:40

on that one because I had

34:42

read about it and Explain.

34:45

Adel Heineau who who plays Halloween's in Portugal,

34:47

you know, fire had come out earlier this year

34:49

talking about how she was abused and,

34:51

you know, groped in you know, sort of assaulted

34:54

by the director of her first film, Christophe

34:56

Lucia, her first film, the

34:58

devil the little devil's or what it's called, whatever it's

35:00

called. And she was abused from the ages of twelve

35:02

to fifteen while on a press tour

35:05

for the film. And she had

35:07

really set off what sparked

35:09

the French Me Too movement because

35:11

they're, like, two, three years behind.

35:13

Oh, yeah. Mhmm. And couple of

35:15

people had tried to come out about what was happening.

35:17

Black French women had already been talking about it, but,

35:19

of course, nobody listens to them. And I

35:22

think Isabella Johnny had said something

35:24

earlier, and nobody listened to her either.

35:26

And a downtown was pretty much like, I have

35:28

the power now. I have a voice to let me speak

35:30

on what happened. And then, you know,

35:33

people were, you know, just crediting her saying why

35:35

did she wait so long than the other. And then -- Yeah.

35:37

-- you know, the whole thing about philanthropy being

35:39

nominated for all these things sort

35:42

of set in motion like this like

35:44

this radical feminist movement. Which

35:46

I know have become the face

35:48

of. And so And

35:49

and for listeners who aren't aware Roman

35:51

Polansky raped a thirteen year old

35:53

when he was convicted. And was convicted.

35:56

And now it lives in France because if he

35:58

comes back to the US, he would be

36:00

arrested upon

36:01

arrival. So that's

36:03

kind of the context for this. Right.

36:06

And he was nominated at all of these

36:08

French award shows and the Caesars,

36:10

which is the French equivalent of

36:12

the Oscars. His film won, like,

36:14

three or four awards, including best

36:16

director.

36:17

And Over over Celine. Over

36:20

Celine -- Yeah. -- weren't they not even

36:21

nominated for a lot of Canada They

36:23

were nominated. Oh, they were nominated. But just did they

36:25

were just They only don't want. Yeah. And

36:27

a lot of that people believe and I also

36:29

believe it was

36:30

retaliation. I think

36:31

so. Contribution -- Oh, for sure.

36:33

because the board of the Caesar's quit

36:36

like, shortly before the award show.

36:39

And I think everybody started to I

36:41

think because, I mean, you Celine and

36:44

these are smart ReRelease I think they saw

36:46

it coming. Yeah. But I don't think they

36:48

thought it would manifest in this

36:49

way.

36:49

Yeah. They got up once they announced his name, they

36:51

got up and walked out, like, the whole cast

36:54

of portrait. Bounced --

36:55

Yeah. -- the cast and crew. They all left --

36:57

Yeah. -- including some others. The

36:59

yeah. That's what I was wondering if more people

37:01

in the room also left in solidarity. Yeah.

37:03

The unfortunate part about it. And I I

37:06

say that Roman Palansky really ruined

37:08

a lot of people like, well, it's not his fault. It's it's

37:10

his fault and his enablers. They really

37:12

ruined some historic moments. Ayesha

37:15

Maija, who is a African

37:17

French woman, went on stage and pretty much made the

37:19

whole entire audience feeling book because she was

37:21

like, you racist. You give us these stereotypical

37:24

roles, shame on you. Yeah.

37:27

So it overshadowed that moment and then

37:29

Lageley who directed Leimes Rob,

37:31

which is a very popular film in France. He

37:33

won best picture. And

37:35

that moment was overshadowed because they

37:37

chose to give Blansky the best

37:40

director award. And so now everybody

37:42

is talking about that instead

37:44

of acknowledging these other historic

37:46

moments that took place during the award show,

37:48

Yeah. And people are kinda blaming

37:51

Adele, and it's, like, no. Blamey

37:53

establishing. She's just

37:55

making a statement.

37:56

Yeah. And then that y'all should've didn't. Long ago.

37:58

Yeah. She's just the first

38:00

one who was willing to put her

38:02

neck out on the line because she's white. And Yeah.

38:04

-- she's privileged and why not? She's like,

38:07

if I'm gonna take the fall then fine then let it happen.

38:09

I just hope other people will be able

38:11

to come out and stand up as well.

38:13

Yeah. And so it it it really

38:16

ruined a a huge moment

38:18

for French cinema because they just

38:20

had to give it to him

38:24

because that's dare it as you,

38:26

feminist, lesbian, angry, bitches, you

38:28

take that. Yeah. And that's kind of how

38:30

and that's kind of how it sort of rolled

38:32

out. And even before the award show, the

38:34

media was turning it into this

38:37

rapist versus feminist Dyking.

38:39

Yeah. It it it was not. They it

38:42

was bad. It was really bad.

38:44

It all started from the female gaze and it just

38:46

sort of rolled downhill. And

38:48

that's sort of where and this is where we've

38:50

ended up. Yeah. The ladies

38:53

are are stronger for it. They are not

38:55

crying. They have their heads down high because I spoke to

38:57

Celine since then. Yeah. And

39:00

they're hoping that it starts a bigger movement because

39:02

outside of the Caesars women were setting

39:05

fires and throwing things. Really?

39:07

Not like what we would do here. Let me

39:09

take that back. Nothing like the status

39:11

quo would do here because there are pockets

39:14

mainly women of color who have been radical

39:16

and done things. But

39:18

that was just it was a group of all kinds

39:20

of people setting fires and

39:23

throwing barricades and all

39:25

kind of I mean, they were pissed Yeah.

39:27

Even before the started. But after it

39:29

started, it got worse. They were breaking

39:31

stuff. Like, oh, let's see. That's that's the kind

39:33

of stuff that we need, because maybe they'll get

39:35

the point. Right.

39:37

But, you know, it seems like once a year,

39:39

Paris is on fire because they are

39:41

doing something. They're raising tuition

39:44

and now they're having a riot or, you know,

39:46

Like, they're like, you

39:47

know, they're one of the countries of ReRelease.

39:50

So I guess that's something they do well. Yeah.

39:52

Even when my when my mom lived

39:54

over there when she met my dad

39:56

she remembers going to protest a

39:58

lot. Like, that was a big part of living

40:00

there as a student was

40:02

that, like, oh, yeah, it's Saturday

40:05

time protest. And

40:08

that's just all because they just don't acknowledge

40:10

womanhood and feminism

40:13

as a

40:13

thing.

40:13

I remember they were on a press

40:16

tour in LA and Adele had mentioned

40:18

that she was a feminist and people started clapping and

40:20

she was

40:20

shocked. Because feminism

40:23

over there is, like, bad.

40:24

Yeah. Seen as bad. Because, you know, everybody

40:27

takes the men's side. Sure. The Gainesboro

40:30

and Isabella Hubert who

40:32

refuses to even comment on it. And it's like

40:34

you can't be neutral and stuff

40:36

like this. Yeah. You should actually pick

40:38

a thigh. Preferably

40:41

one that benefits you the most.

40:43

So as I feel like I'm like, every French white

40:45

women over fifty seems to be like, I don't

40:47

know. They can't the one just one lady I forgot her

40:49

name. Fanny something. She said she would go

40:51

to the GEA team for a rapist, Roman

40:54

Palansky. That's how bad they are over

40:56

there. Jesus. Correct. didn't get

40:58

up to that thing. I was like, I would go

41:00

up to the GEA team, Roman

41:01

Balansky. I was like, wow.

41:04

Okay. That's why we need that footage of

41:07

Eloise running out and saying, like,

41:09

bravo, pedophilia.

41:11

She was like, just like bravo

41:14

pedophile. You know, long

41:16

screen. Pedophilia and stuff like that.

41:18

Yeah. And you could see, like, the workers

41:20

were, like, now, like,

41:22

They didn't know what

41:23

Yeah. Yeah. He was on the background or stunned.

41:25

Yeah. What a hero. I love it.

41:28

I Yeah. There I have met some when

41:30

I was in Paris last, I met

41:32

up with a friend and his girlfriend who's

41:34

a huge feminist and

41:37

her friends. And when they found out, I did stand

41:39

up comedy. They were taken aback and

41:41

said they wouldn't expect that from me.

41:43

Because they're used to stand up just being,

41:45

like, fully misogynistic, like

41:47

bullshit material

41:49

there, like, girls there don't really

41:51

enjoy it. It's really just for guys. And I was

41:53

like, oh, no. No. We have and then the one

41:56

the one, like, somewhat prominent female

41:58

comic in France is like dating Louis

42:00

CK.

42:01

Oh, really? Well, there you go.

42:03

I'm pretty sure she does. Is that the shimoh? That

42:05

hosted the Caesars? Oh, it might

42:07

be. Because she also, like, did

42:09

blackface. Oh my god. Well, I

42:13

was wondering what brought those two lovebirds

42:16

together, but I think we know that we know

42:18

that. Because she was

42:20

even called out it's like, okay. So you're the host and you're

42:22

a feminist, but you also did blackface. So you're the

42:24

racist

42:24

too. Yeah. And it's like, you know, we can't

42:27

those things should not be separated. Yeah.

42:30

Just

42:30

because just because you're a feminist, doesn't mean you're

42:32

not racist too. Yeah. And, you know, oh, yeah.

42:35

would also love to keep

42:37

talking about portrait double eighty on fire

42:41

because I loved it somewhat and and also,

42:43

like, while watching it because I'm not,

42:46

like, a film buff by any

42:48

means or, like, a film critic or anything.

42:51

I wasn't necessarily aware,

42:53

like, noticing while I was watching that it's

42:55

the the female gaze and that's what made it. So

42:57

it was, like, afterwards and thinking about

42:59

it and everything I just saw and, like,

43:01

why? You know, because I I love myself like a good

43:04

slow burn movie like that,

43:06

but this one felt like so different to

43:08

me and I know that that

43:11

I think a big reason

43:13

why. And even I got caught up in my

43:15

own, like, misogyny at first

43:17

viewing it because I like

43:19

films that change my perspective, like

43:22

outside of the film, but the world. And it sort

43:24

of changed things because I remember being in

43:26

the

43:26

theater. Like, if don't see some kissing as a

43:28

pet. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna get pissed. Yeah.

43:30

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I was capped it down. I was

43:32

like, okay. Okay. It's it. Like, when I saw this

43:34

obedience, I'm like, This is

43:36

a lot of religious stuff to get through.

43:39

Before I get to the passionate

43:41

sexy times,

43:43

I was like, wait, if I don't see some kiss teddy's,

43:45

I'm gonna leave. Yeah. And then it was like, okay. So

43:47

that's not what the film is about. And, you know, I didn't

43:49

discover that until second watch. Yeah.

43:51

And I was like, you know -- Yeah. -- this this

43:53

film is totally

43:55

changed. But it's still like super like

43:57

sexy and erotic. That's why I

43:59

love because, you know, we're so used to seeing

44:02

the story told from a stance of

44:04

forbidden love. And then when

44:06

they do get together, it's this like

44:09

passionate crazy, like, throw

44:11

her up against the wall type of

44:13

thing, and that's not what this

44:15

was. And but it was still

44:17

felt like so

44:19

sexy. And it is. It's just

44:21

not giving you what you want the

44:23

way you want it. Yeah. You know, the way you're used

44:26

to it anyway. Yeah. I like it. And

44:28

I and I changed it up. I like that.

44:30

Yeah. Yeah. The portrait nation is the,

44:32

you know, these, like, rabbit fans who

44:35

love the film and which I'm a part of. And

44:38

they pay attention to details. They're like, wow.

44:40

Portrait

44:40

Nation, how do I apply for citizenship? Just

44:43

tweet about the movie. I mean, this movie has

44:45

really changed a lot of young kids lives.

44:48

Yeah. Like, these teenagers, you know, helping

44:50

them come out and embrace your sexuality. Like,

44:52

it has done a lot. Yeah. But

44:54

they counted. They were like, man, this will be super

44:56

sexual because they're having sex like four times a

44:58

day. They're

44:59

like, how did you know that? And

45:01

then, you know, seeing it like the thirteenth

45:03

time you start paying attention and you're like, oh, okay.

45:05

So they're together four or five days and

45:07

they're having sex all the time. So,

45:10

of

45:10

course, it's a section movie. We just don't see it because

45:12

we don't have to because we know -- Yeah. -- like, you know what

45:14

I mean anyway? Yeah. And I mention,

45:16

you know, Desiree Akavon was there

45:18

because to me, that's someone else who

45:21

also does a really amazing

45:23

job at female gaze type

45:26

content and also having it be, you

45:28

know, exploring like a lot more nuanced

45:31

stuff and showing sex in a wave

45:33

that's like different then we've seen it before

45:35

showing nudity that's different from

45:37

a way that that we've seen it

45:38

before. And

45:39

I like the miss education of Cameron Post.

45:41

I was gonna say that too. Oh. So yeah.

45:43

I wasn't even thinking of miss education. I was just

45:45

thinking more, like, bisexual and appropriate

45:47

behavior. Right. But but also yeah.

45:49

Miss

45:49

education

45:50

does by visibility well

45:52

and -- Yes. -- and -- justification.

45:54

-- and perversion

45:55

visit as a queer person. I'm obviously

45:57

obsessed. Yeah.

45:59

She's great. Aceladia, she she cries

46:01

during the movie, like, she's crying the whole time.

46:04

Oh my gosh. It's a weird

46:05

thing. But she she loves the movie.

46:07

Just I

46:07

thought I was sobbing. But a

46:09

lot of people like the movie because finally,

46:11

someone has been courageous enough to

46:13

do it, and it's been a woman

46:15

who wasn't at the best of

46:17

a studio telling her what to do because they get

46:20

public funds. Yes. Yes.

46:22

So they once you get your money, you do whatever you

46:24

want. Mhmm.

46:24

Yeah. We don't have that here. Yeah.

46:27

So I think that's one of the good things about France

46:29

is that once you get your

46:30

money, you do whatever you wanna do with it -- Yeah.

46:32

-- to have the government funding arts

46:35

and knowing the importance of

46:37

arts and culture, which is opposite

46:40

of what our current government feels

46:43

does seem very revolutionary. So

46:47

in thinking about the female gaze,

46:49

it seems like, obviously, it it seems very

46:51

important having women produce

46:54

direct right to get

46:56

to that point. Can you think

46:58

of any examples where you've seen a move be

47:00

that hasn't been, like, directed or

47:03

written by a woman that felt

47:05

like it wasn't dominated by

47:07

the male gaze.

47:08

Carol? Carol? Yeah. I

47:10

don't know if y'all agree with me, but know Todd I

47:13

know it's kinda cheating because Todd Haynes

47:15

is is

47:15

gay. Yeah. And I believe that

47:17

may help a little

47:18

bit. Yeah. Yeah. Just being

47:20

queer because at least if it's not the female

47:22

gaze, there's a queer gaze there. That

47:24

you can sort of relate to him. He's like, okay, well, this is not

47:27

over the top, which I didn't think Carol

47:29

was, but it still had that narrative

47:31

of married woman, defying

47:34

her husband in the nineteen fifties, whatever,

47:37

which is a trope that we see

47:39

often. It looked very pretty.

47:41

Yeah. It was interesting because after I

47:43

saw Carol, I read

47:46

the price of salt -- Mhmm. -- which is

47:48

the the novel it was based on and

47:51

it was interesting because

47:54

I almost feel like Therese

47:57

was maybe made

47:59

out to be the object. Though,

48:01

I guess, in the price of salt, she's also

48:04

kind of the the object, but in the price of salt,

48:06

it seemed like a lot stronger everything's

48:09

told really from Therese's point of

48:11

view. Mhmm. Whereas the movie felt

48:13

like more like this is Carol's

48:16

story, And Therese

48:18

is just like the object of that. Well,

48:21

one movie that came to mind for me,

48:23

and I I don't know who directed it.

48:25

I think it might have been a queer

48:27

man? Maybe not. The hours. That's

48:29

like one of the last DVDs

48:30

I I hold on to. I

48:33

love that movie. I love the hours so much. I mean,

48:35

again, maybe Michael Cunningham who

48:38

wrote the book and also the screenplay might

48:40

be why the hours felt like that

48:43

there wasn't anything there that was

48:45

really four men.

48:46

Mhmm. Another film that came to mind was

48:48

the Duke of Burgundy. Have

48:50

you seen that? I

48:51

haven't seen that. Yeah. I gotta watch I've

48:53

heard of that, but tell me more. Refresh

48:55

my memory. The Duke of Burgundy is about these these

48:58

this has to be a couple who engage in

49:00

BDSM. I'm in.

49:02

And the movie is just beautifully done, and

49:04

it's about, like, topping from the bottom. And

49:07

it's loud, power dynamics and cool.

49:10

This is getting me emotional. This is about

49:12

you know, it's about it. So there

49:14

are there are no men in it. Mhmm.

49:17

I will. If there are men

49:18

in, it's for very little.

49:20

Yeah. And Like portrait. Right. That's what I would

49:22

like. Peter Strickland. Mhmm.

49:25

On his films often center women.

49:27

And I don't know if Peter Strickland is queer.

49:29

I don't think so. I think he just

49:32

was maybe raised in a household of

49:34

women.

49:35

Yeah. So the Duke of Burgundy, I recommend

49:37

that you see that. Let me know what you think.

49:39

I'll check that out. Yeah. I

49:40

don't know. I guess that when I think of movies,

49:43

or stories that that are

49:45

my favorite, like without even having to think

49:48

about it are ones that treat women

49:50

as subjects and and are told through the

49:52

female gaze. I don't know if this

49:54

actually counts but like Alison

49:56

Wonderland. I always loved Alison

49:59

Wonderland and I never knew why.

50:01

And then I realized because

50:03

it's like a girl character in

50:05

a way that at that time there

50:07

weren't many girls who were just

50:09

like, kind of on their own Dyking

50:12

to figure out, like, a crazy world

50:14

and, like, make sense of things

50:16

and be on this

50:17

journey. Like, by themselves and

50:19

there wasn't anything I

50:21

I was like, oh, there's a weird element. Two

50:23

hours and one to that, like, that sense of

50:25

finding a sense of community and sort

50:27

of exploring other people

50:30

and worlds that you're not familiar with

50:32

and finding common ground and community

50:35

within that as a woman -- Yes.

50:37

-- you know, as a solo woman -- Yeah. -- just to

50:39

to put put the information out there just because

50:41

something has queer elements doesn't

50:43

mean that is necessarily tied to

50:45

sexuality. Yes. Just wanna point

50:47

that out.

50:47

Yeah. When I say when I say some certain things or

50:50

queer people like, but that has nothing to do with gay

50:52

people. And I'm like, well, mid summer is

50:54

queer, but it has nothing to do with anybody

50:56

being gay. That's just a different Yeah.

50:58

When we so,

50:59

yeah, I could I could actually see that because

51:01

there's a clear element there. Yeah. I mean,

51:03

I feel like if it was, like, Alex in Wonderland.

51:06

I wouldn't have been as intimate. But

51:09

a movie that I was thinking about too

51:11

that whenever people say it, like, what's

51:14

your your favorite movie

51:16

or I think of the movie that I could watch

51:18

over and over again and never get

51:20

sick of it is a league of their own. Mhmm.

51:23

And Penny Marshall directed

51:25

that. And I

51:27

think, again, had that not been

51:29

directed by Penny Marshall, it could

51:31

have been --

51:32

Yeah. --

51:32

a very different movie.

51:34

Oh, yeah. What about, like, was

51:36

Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mine

51:38

Was that a female?

51:39

No. That was male Yeah. That was a boundary.

51:42

Then who's I don't know why that didn't feel

51:44

like overly male gazey to me.

51:46

I believe he he just writes

51:48

women that way. So it is possible,

51:51

men. Yeah. I

51:53

just think if you're a man and you treat

51:55

women like human beings

51:57

-- Uh-huh. -- that you can have a

52:00

woman character who's not shitty

52:02

lead for trade. You know what I

52:03

mean? Yes. So very easy.

52:06

What what do you think of you know, I

52:08

don't know if it was Gina Davis who

52:11

maybe I'm I'm sure it wasn't her idea

52:13

but has talked it up of, like,

52:15

saying, hey, why don't you just try taking one of

52:17

the the men in

52:19

your scripts and just change it to

52:21

a

52:21

woman. Isn't

52:22

that what they did with alien? I think that's what they

52:24

did with alien. I I think so. Yeah.

52:27

Ripply was a man originally, and

52:29

he just changed the gender and the name.

52:32

Yeah. And that was it.

52:33

Yes.

52:33

We could start. And

52:36

that's it. And that's how you got Ella

52:38

Ripley. Yeah. Like, it's very that's

52:41

actually not a bad thing. And

52:43

actually, for my current story,

52:45

my current story follows a older woman and

52:47

a young girl. It's a western that takes place during

52:50

the Goldrush period. And

52:52

It's about two women of color. The

52:54

older woman was originally a man

52:56

in another story. And I was like, what

52:58

if I take this idea and this character

53:00

make it a woman. Mhmm. And people are like,

53:02

oh, I love the character and everything like that. I'm like,

53:04

000I gave you that because I took the

53:06

idea from a man.

53:08

And send it to a woman. Yeah.

53:10

Mind blown. Yeah. But it

53:12

shouldn't it shouldn't be like that. Right? We

53:14

should just write one another,

53:16

like, human beings going through human experience

53:19

instead of objects, you know.

53:21

Yeah. Well, and and then also it I mean,

53:23

depending on, like, how far

53:25

along you are in something, but

53:27

like, let's say there's

53:30

a role in a movie that

53:33

the person wrote having, like, a white

53:35

person in mind and then they cast

53:37

a black person which never

53:39

happens, almost never happens.

53:42

But the role, like, wasn't written with

53:44

that person's, like, background and experiences meant,

53:46

then they're like, but isn't it great? This is

53:49

more diverse movie now. It's like, well,

53:51

yes, visibility on screen is good.

53:53

But if you're not considering, like, that

53:56

character and how their experiences would be

53:58

shaped and influenced by their

54:00

race, their gender, their sexuality, does

54:03

that character actually helped.

54:05

You're the first person that has, like,

54:07

been able to acknowledge that there's a distinction

54:10

between that. Having visibility and

54:12

proper representation of totally different

54:14

things. Yeah. And just throwing a couple

54:16

of people a color in there for diversity

54:19

purposes does not mean that

54:21

it's you've made a good

54:22

choice. Well, it's something that I have to think about

54:24

as somebody who, you know, wants

54:26

to right for TV and writes pilots.

54:29

And as a white woman,

54:31

I don't wanna write, you know,

54:33

a scriptful of white people, but

54:35

then I also feel like I'm ill equipped

54:37

to write from, you

54:39

know, someone else's experience

54:42

and trying to yeah.

54:44

I don't

54:44

know. I've I've read a lot into, like,

54:47

What do you do? I hope you people

54:49

are gonna get mad at me. You can DM me

54:51

and be upset, whatever you want. Mhmm. But

54:53

Greta Gerwig's little women, for example. A

54:55

huge example. I know people have picked her before

54:57

about her films, about her one film,

55:00

not being very diverse and being extra

55:02

unrealistic. So in little women,

55:04

what she does is she there's

55:06

two people of color, two black people. One

55:09

of them works on a train. And

55:11

I was like, okay. So that's not realistic.

55:13

Because this is like I don't know if this was pre or

55:15

post civil war. believe it was post civil war.

55:18

But was like Dyking on the

55:19

train, as a black person

55:21

post civil war is not realistic.

55:24

It was like a mid civil war.

55:26

Was it mister m it's civil war

55:28

ish.

55:28

Yeah. Yeah. The dad is gone

55:30

fighting him. Okay. Yeah. In the civil war.

55:32

So it's -- Yeah. -- it's during the civil war.

55:34

Yeah. And was like, I know it's like,

55:36

ReRelease, but I was like, the likelihood

55:38

of that being real is not and so

55:40

it kinda took me out the movie. Yeah. Which

55:42

I know is something silly and small, but

55:44

it took me out. Yeah. Because if your

55:47

film was all white, that's fine. If that's what you do --

55:49

Yeah. -- then do it. Yeah. But

55:51

don't shoot horn some stuff. You don't know nothing

55:53

about Right. You discredit yourself

55:55

in your film and so you can't just do

55:57

visibility for visibility

55:59

sake. Yeah. Right? End up missing out. Yeah.

56:01

And fucking up. Which is what

56:03

usually happens.

56:04

Yeah.

56:05

Yeah. So I could have

56:07

this conversation go on forever because

56:09

I find it fascinating. But at think

56:11

we have to normalize like women

56:14

in general directing films no matter

56:16

what

56:16

right. What angle comes from.

56:19

just

56:19

think we need more.

56:20

We just think we need more of that people that

56:22

you write what you know, and those are the best stories,

56:24

but so we need more women.

56:25

We need more women. Well, we need more women. Well, women's going and more

56:28

women getting it wrong because -- Mhmm. --

56:29

then having that be okay. Right. Because we need to

56:32

normalize that too because maybe get it wrong all

56:34

the time. Right. Yep. And listen,

56:36

most of them met the films that are produced

56:38

and directed and written by men. And

56:40

most films are average. It's very

56:42

rare that a film is extremely bad, or

56:44

extremely good? Yes. Most of the

56:46

time, they're in the middle. Yeah. And that

56:48

means most men, white cis

56:51

men, or average. So you

56:53

could DM me if you want whatever we could

56:55

discuss it, but that's just my

56:57

opinion. And that's just what I'm gonna And you can have

56:59

an element of the film still be a home

57:01

run and still have a mediocre film. Like,

57:03

what was Bernaezel Weger, her

57:06

role in Judy. Yeah. Pretty

57:08

mediocre film, but just

57:10

like her performance, you can, like, still provide

57:12

those opportunities for other facets

57:14

of the film to really

57:15

strive. There are a lot of book I feel like being

57:18

written about women in Hollywood and

57:20

and the hurdles that they face and

57:22

just a a look at the numbers and the

57:24

the odds and what you

57:27

have to kind of overcome from

57:29

all parts of the industry, even like

57:31

agents and things like that, that all

57:34

playing the factors of representation. And

57:36

now, you know, you think that's hard for women

57:39

then look to minorities, look to

57:41

transgender actors, and actors

57:43

with just abilities, you know. It's

57:46

a huge mountain to climb. Like,

57:48

we're so far from

57:50

equality in the industry.

57:53

So I was listening to this NPR podcast and

57:55

they had this author on talking about

57:57

concrete examples of why

57:59

representation matters and

58:01

that seeing people

58:03

in media, signal to people that

58:05

this is of what's possible in

58:08

their lives. So that when

58:11

brave and hunger games came

58:13

out, there was an overall increase

58:16

in people taking up our

58:18

tree. Mhmm. And it was, like, over a hundred

58:20

percent increase from women

58:22

specifically because

58:24

for the first time, while boys had, like,

58:26

Robinhood and whatever, that

58:29

women saw other women

58:31

with bows and arrows and were, like, oh,

58:33

I can do that. Okay. You

58:36

know, I'm gonna take archery classes. Like,

58:38

these aren't just, like, movies. This

58:40

stuff changes people's lives.

58:43

And it's so important to tell

58:45

these stories for any type of

58:47

marginalized group I know this conversation

58:50

was focused a lot on on women,

58:52

but then you think about the transgaze

58:54

or non binary gaze or how that's ReRelease,

58:57

if it is ReRelease, and how

59:00

their portrayals are treated. There's a

59:02

long way to go, and so many

59:04

stories to be told. So stop

59:06

making Spider Man. I

59:09

mean, unless Spider Man is non binary

59:11

next time. Spider Man Man. Which

59:13

they should be. Alright. Trans,

59:16

superheroes. Now

59:17

Yeah. Stop making all the sis

59:20

mail stuff. We need to see more.

59:22

Yes. Give us a moment. Particularly love

59:24

wonder

59:24

woman, but I know it's important. Yeah. Right?

59:26

I didn't love atomic blonde, but it's important

59:29

still. I saw wonder woman. I didn't see atomic

59:31

blonde, but I did see birds

59:33

of prey, and I saw it

59:35

with my wife who hadn't seen wonder woman.

59:37

And I remember the feeling walking out of wonder

59:39

woman being like, whoa. Like,

59:41

really, like, amped up in psych,

59:43

especially when she, like, comes out

59:45

of the bunker and just fucking running

59:48

through the the battlefield. And

59:50

I almost, like, stood up and just screamed

59:52

at the I mean, I I was in a theater that

59:54

was mostly women and people

59:56

were,

59:57

let's say, screaming at those scream -- in

59:59

excitement. And after

1:00:01

we got out of birds of praise, Cecilia, looked

1:00:03

at me and she's like, is this what men

1:00:05

feel like when they watch superhero movies?

1:00:08

Because I am ready to mess

1:00:10

shit. She

1:00:12

was, like, so amped about it. It was very

1:00:14

cute. Mhmm. Well, I

1:00:17

think that where we have to wrap up our

1:00:19

discussion, but I would like to have you back sometime

1:00:21

because you are just full of

1:00:23

great information and perspective. Thank

1:00:26

you. I am enjoying

1:00:28

At least maybe we can hang out

1:00:30

sometime. Sure. This was all,

1:00:32

like, a russ to be friends.

1:00:34

It is a russ to be friends with you. Yeah. I

1:00:36

do so. Eeking me out. I this

1:00:38

was a really interesting invitation

1:00:40

because I hadn't heard of the podcast before, but

1:00:42

-- Yay. -- you know, I get I don't know. I I

1:00:44

don't know who, you know, who knows

1:00:46

my work or who because there's a lot of people who don't like me.

1:00:49

So, you know, you just never know, you know,

1:00:51

where you end up and appreciate

1:00:53

you to have me on. This is, like, one of the think

1:00:55

there's only the second queer focused podcast

1:00:58

I've been on because I was on the gay rights

1:01:00

before. Oh, okay. And we're talking about

1:01:03

push it. I seem to be like a to go

1:01:05

to person

1:01:05

for that. I'm gonna listen to that too.

1:01:07

I love it. We have a listener question

1:01:09

that we do need to get to this

1:01:12

week's listener question comes from our Patreon.

1:01:15

And as you know, if you are a patron,

1:01:17

your questions get expedited to the

1:01:19

top of the list. So let's dive into

1:01:21

this weeks and it goes like this.

1:01:24

I have an amazing girlfriend. She is

1:01:26

endlessly loving, supportive and has

1:01:28

a whole host of admirable qualities. Our

1:01:31

relationship is healthy, communication is

1:01:33

strong, and we are actively building

1:01:35

a life together beyond anything I'd envisioned.

1:01:37

Cecilia, did you send the sentence tend to be

1:01:39

a paper and busted? Despite

1:01:43

every sign pointing happily in the direction

1:01:46

of how do I get so lucky lately,

1:01:48

I haven't been able to stop thinking about a girl

1:01:50

I went out with a couple of times when

1:01:53

I was first coming out three years ago. I

1:01:55

was still dating a guy at the

1:01:57

time and was open with all

1:01:59

parties, but I didn't give

1:02:01

her a fair shot having not

1:02:03

been fully comfortable in my identity.

1:02:06

I still follow her on social media, parenthesis.

1:02:09

At one point, I stopped because seeing

1:02:11

her insights too many feelings, but

1:02:13

I ended up sending another follow

1:02:15

request. She started dating someone

1:02:17

shortly after and has been with them ever since.

1:02:20

I cannot seem to let this blip

1:02:22

in the past go. Am I putting feelings on

1:02:24

the person who first modeled what

1:02:26

my cute queer life could be? Am

1:02:28

I sabotaging my relationship? Is

1:02:30

it just sexual attraction, plain and simple,

1:02:33

a crush? It's consuming, an

1:02:35

itch I can't scratch, and the more I

1:02:37

suppress it, the deeper the

1:02:38

burn. Whoa.

1:02:40

It's all those things. Yeah. Now

1:02:45

listen as ReRelease, I both try

1:02:47

to talk about this knowing our girlfriends

1:02:49

listen to the podcast.

1:02:51

Well, I don't have a girlfriend. So

1:02:53

Yeah. Take it. You

1:02:55

get first dibs on this one. Wowsers. You

1:02:59

know what? What helps me out

1:03:02

is Like, when I have crushes on people

1:03:04

and I want the crushes to go

1:03:05

away, I just tell the person. And for

1:03:08

some reason, it vanishes. Not that that'll

1:03:10

work for everyone. But maybe

1:03:11

Especially if you you're in a relationship. Especially if

1:03:13

you're in a relationship. Especially if you're in

1:03:18

a

1:03:19

relationship, I don't know if this is the best advice,

1:03:21

but unique closure. And you need to

1:03:24

find out what that closure is going to be for you

1:03:26

so that you can, you know, survive

1:03:28

in the current relationship you have now. Because

1:03:31

God forbid, you may mess that

1:03:33

up, and then you'll have another thing on

1:03:35

your conscience. And that's not what

1:03:37

you need. So find out what

1:03:39

that closure would be for you, whether

1:03:41

it's emailing I

1:03:43

really because it's hard to say that, you know,

1:03:45

contacting her and letting her know how you

1:03:48

felt just to be able to let it go. Because I'm

1:03:50

all for don't repress the

1:03:52

feelings. Just let them flow

1:03:54

and they will go.

1:03:55

That's what I learned in therapy. Yeah.

1:03:57

But I know that it's not gonna work for everybody. And again,

1:03:59

you're in a relationship. I would start

1:04:01

with getting closure to that situation. If

1:04:04

closure is what you want and figuring

1:04:06

out what that's gonna look like.

1:04:08

Yeah. I think that's that's great

1:04:10

advice. I think that this

1:04:12

is something that I have actually dealt

1:04:15

with in past relationships where

1:04:19

I like, if you go back to

1:04:21

the time when you were first coming

1:04:23

out and, you know, things

1:04:25

were mess see and sometimes things

1:04:27

ended and may have ended

1:04:29

in a very, like, unresolved way for

1:04:32

for whatever reason. That

1:04:34

I used to be very focused

1:04:36

on people that

1:04:38

I hooked up with in college. Or

1:04:41

somebody that I briefly

1:04:43

briefly dated and it didn't work out.

1:04:46

And I would hold on,

1:04:48

like, not being able to stop thinking

1:04:50

about these people and thinking about, like,

1:04:53

what maybe could have been.

1:04:55

And I think part

1:04:57

of that is nostalgia. I

1:05:00

think all of us suffer from like a little

1:05:02

bit of being nostalgic for a

1:05:04

time in our lives, especially when

1:05:06

you feel that you're in

1:05:08

something good and everything is, like,

1:05:10

settled. Sometimes you're nostalgic for the messy,

1:05:12

you know. Sometimes that that can happen.

1:05:15

Like, I think your relationship sounds

1:05:18

fantastic and it sounds great. And

1:05:20

I think this really has to do with

1:05:22

something else and it's not about this person

1:05:25

you're focused on.

1:05:26

Right.

1:05:26

Mhmm. So you're not missing out on anything

1:05:28

with this person because it's not about this person.

1:05:31

This is about This is a you thing. This is a

1:05:33

you thing. This is a you think. Maybe you

1:05:35

have, like, past regrets or or something,

1:05:37

but I

1:05:38

know, like, specifically, for me, one

1:05:40

of the people who I used to think

1:05:42

about a lot in

1:05:44

my past relationship And I would always

1:05:46

feel shitty about it because I'm like, why am I thinking about

1:05:49

this person? And it was because

1:05:51

I never let myself have

1:05:54

closure. And in that case, I

1:05:56

could have probably talked to the person and found

1:05:58

that closure and had a conversation. But

1:06:01

they're married, and I was married, and didn't

1:06:03

wanna have that discussion. But I just kind

1:06:05

of like found a way to have closure in

1:06:08

my mind and talk myself through it. Because

1:06:10

I was the one who always after

1:06:12

it ended, left the door open of

1:06:14

that I was always willing, like, well, if

1:06:16

something ever if the circumstances were

1:06:19

ever right again, I'd be open to this.

1:06:21

And it was just matter of me, like, closing that

1:06:23

door and being like, none of this

1:06:25

is rooted in reality. None of this is

1:06:27

rooted in my life right now. This is all like

1:06:30

nostalgia for a time and

1:06:32

a moment. That I just should appreciate

1:06:34

that for for what it was, and I closed

1:06:36

the door on it, and then it went

1:06:38

away. And I stopped thinking about it, and I

1:06:40

stopped, like, obsessing over it

1:06:42

and it felt really good. Another

1:06:45

thing that you can do and

1:06:47

Melody, talk in a second, I

1:06:49

feel like I'm saying a

1:06:51

lot, but I'm learning a lot. I self sabotage

1:06:53

and I've never been capable. I have

1:06:55

intimacy issues and I shut people out right away.

1:06:57

So I don't have

1:07:00

any communication or follow

1:07:02

anyone that I've ever been with in the

1:07:04

past, so I'm learning. Well,

1:07:06

I was gonna say too, sometimes it depends

1:07:08

on, like, who you're with and how great your

1:07:10

communication really is. But sometimes

1:07:13

telling the person that you're with and

1:07:15

talking about it and being like,

1:07:17

hey, you know, I'm having these feelings

1:07:19

that are really annoying me

1:07:22

and I don't know why and I don't wanna

1:07:24

have them and feel like part of

1:07:26

why you could obsess about them is

1:07:28

because it feels like a secret right now.

1:07:30

And then if all of a sudden, it's like, not

1:07:32

a secret and you're talking about it and

1:07:35

you let this person you're with know and let

1:07:37

them know that this woman you're obsessing about

1:07:39

isn't a threat and it's just something

1:07:41

you're trying to to process. Sometimes it helps

1:07:43

to, like, process with other people.

1:07:45

And if you feel like your partner is someone you can

1:07:47

process that with, Yeah. I

1:07:50

think it could be good. It could be bad. It

1:07:52

depends on, you know, the the circumstance,

1:07:54

but that can help kind of take the power

1:07:57

away from this thought. Yeah.

1:07:59

I think that is a good idea because

1:08:01

Ali and I do that too sometimes.

1:08:04

Yeah. Like, if

1:08:04

there's a comic, I'm like, I know you think she's

1:08:06

cute. Like, you can just say it.

1:08:08

Like, because I just wanna, like, get

1:08:10

it out there. And usually, we feel

1:08:12

so much better and we'll, like, joke about it, and it

1:08:14

doesn't affect our

1:08:15

relationship. In any

1:08:17

way. Right. Because

1:08:17

ambiguity scares a lot of people. Yeah. You

1:08:19

know what I mean? And what you don't know

1:08:22

is, like, the things and the shadows and pea that's

1:08:24

what people fear. Yeah. So maybe, you know,

1:08:26

I like that advice. It's best to get it out in the

1:08:28

open because it gives it less

1:08:29

power. And that's why I do it.

1:08:30

Yeah. Because

1:08:31

the more I hold it and the more power it has.

1:08:32

Yeah. Secrets can drive you crazy. But

1:08:34

may I also suggest muting the person

1:08:36

for the time being? That's the other thing I

1:08:39

know. As soon as you said that you had muted them,

1:08:41

I was good. And then it was like and then I

1:08:43

stopped And I'm

1:08:43

like, no. No. No. Keep on following. Yeah. You

1:08:46

can mute and unmute whatever

1:08:48

you want. Yeah. Like, so they don't know that you unfollowed

1:08:50

them, so you don't have to follow them back you could just mute

1:08:52

while you sort through these feelings. And then

1:08:54

once you're ready to unmute them,

1:08:56

like, they won't know

1:08:58

if you choose to go down the route of not talking

1:09:01

to them about it, of course. Yeah.

1:09:03

And also, like, reassure

1:09:05

yourself that you sound like you're

1:09:07

in a amazing relationship and

1:09:10

those are rare. So

1:09:13

always remind yourself and,

1:09:16

you know, even write down, like, gratitude

1:09:19

for the things that you have in your life and

1:09:21

Melody and I book the best self journals and

1:09:23

every day

1:09:24

you write what you're grateful for and

1:09:26

every morning and night, I am grateful

1:09:28

for my wife. And it

1:09:30

does help to, you know, constantly

1:09:33

be grateful for my wife. Think that that

1:09:35

helps make our relationship work is that we

1:09:37

are constantly aware of how grateful we

1:09:39

are for each other and

1:09:42

it goes a long way. So very

1:09:44

happy for you that you're in a great relationship, and

1:09:46

good luck with this. If you have any more questions,

1:09:48

you can email us Dyking

1:09:50

out at gmail dot com, and we will answer them.

1:09:53

Valerie, thank you so much. How

1:09:55

can people find you online or

1:09:58

follow

1:09:58

you? Is Twitter the the best place?

1:10:00

No. I got a couple places. Right. Valerie

1:10:03

complex on Twitter. It's all one word.

1:10:05

Valerie, VALERIE

1:10:08

complex in on Instagram.

1:10:10

Valerie underscore complex and

1:10:13

my website, which is valeriecomplex dot

1:10:15

com, which is currently under construction. But

1:10:18

should be going it should be pop in by the middle of

1:10:20

the month.

1:10:20

Great. Let's check back for updates. And

1:10:22

you're working on a graphic novel right now?

1:10:25

Yeah. I'm with I

1:10:28

don't wanna say the agency, but -- Sure. -- not

1:10:30

right now, but I'm working on graphic

1:10:31

novel.

1:10:32

But when that comes out, you have to let us know so we can

1:10:34

let everybody know. It's a founder and

1:10:36

one of the protagonists is queer woman.

1:10:39

You know, it's funny. I know somebody else who

1:10:42

not writing a a graphic novel, but

1:10:44

is also working on like

1:10:46

a queer

1:10:47

western. Is it because

1:10:49

of little nose? No. No. just kidding.

1:10:52

I was gonna

1:10:53

say what? Rhino or herb. Oh, no.

1:10:56

Which tried watching Wynnona Erp,

1:10:58

and I couldn't even get through the pilot. It is so

1:11:00

bad. And I know I just like hurt a

1:11:02

lot of people's feelings. And if you love

1:11:04

it, I'm so happy for you that you can love

1:11:06

it. The show has a lot of problems. Oh my gosh.

1:11:09

I I couldn't get through the pilot. I've just

1:11:11

like this is and I'm sure I'll

1:11:13

get a lot of messages that are, like,

1:11:15

stick with it. Just I maybe

1:11:17

I'll watch it on YouTube for the girl on girl

1:11:19

stuff, but

1:11:21

but I can. Yeah. Just sitting down with the rest.

1:11:23

Wine owner earp. It's just the genre. No. No.

1:11:25

No. I've been thinking it was obviously. Just so

1:11:27

you're clear. I was kidding. No.

1:11:29

You don't strike me an earper. We'll

1:11:32

talk about that offline. Yes.

1:11:37

Man, alright. And you can follow

1:11:40

me personally at TGI ReRelease.

1:11:42

And for me, that's Melody Kamali.

1:11:45

If you're nasty, and you

1:11:47

can love it. You can

1:11:49

follow us at diking out on everywhere. And

1:11:52

as an important reminder, if you haven't stopped

1:11:54

listening already, please go to

1:11:56

patreon dot com slash

1:11:59

diking out. That's where we have

1:12:01

content that gets cut for time. That's where

1:12:03

we have our off topic episodes. That's where you can

1:12:05

get Enamel pins, tattoos, we're working

1:12:07

on getting more merch. If you're not

1:12:09

able to give us money every

1:12:11

month on Patreon, There are

1:12:14

other ways. So in the show notes of this,

1:12:16

there is a link to our Paypal.

1:12:18

You can Paypal us at diking out

1:12:20

and support us. Just thinking of it like

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buying us a drink. We hang out all

1:12:25

the time once a week. So buy us a

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1:12:29

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1:12:34

create more merch and all of that takes

1:12:36

time and time is money and it also

1:12:38

takes

1:12:38

money. Which is also money. So

1:12:43

thank you for all of your support.

1:12:45

Thanks for Dyking out with us this week and Dyking out

1:12:47

with us again soon. Bye. Bye

1:12:49

bye. Bye.