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let's get back to the episode. Hey,

0:30

how you doing man? Come on in, have

0:32

a seat. We

0:42

have such challenges

0:44

today with our current

0:48

scientific paradigm. It

0:50

doesn't look beyond the scientific method.

0:52

It's not provable and you can't

0:55

test it. It's not

0:57

valid. And when we run into

1:00

ancient sites, and we

1:02

talk about them every week, Maya, Egyptian,

1:06

Chinese, Sumerian,

1:09

it's just, we had to look

1:11

at it through filtered lenses and

1:13

the filters are the education that

1:16

our historians have, limited

1:19

education. And how

1:22

problematic it is when

1:24

we work with the unseen

1:26

levels, the unseen energies

1:29

that are all around

1:31

us that make up our planet. Now,

1:34

we've talked a lot about how, and

1:37

we've had people on the program talking

1:39

about how our ancestors built their

1:42

temples, their buildings and

1:44

pyramids over these

1:47

geomagnetic energy

1:50

gashes in the earth that are bubbling up

1:52

to our energy. It

1:55

seems to be a fact

1:58

that our ancestors... were more

2:00

in touch with these energies than

2:02

we are today. And just because

2:04

we can't see them doesn't mean they

2:07

don't exist. We can measure them with

2:09

very rudimentary tools. And

2:11

some people can actually feel the energy. But

2:15

because archaeologists

2:17

and Egyptologists are not schooled to

2:20

look for these things, we are

2:22

missing a huge part

2:25

of our ancestors' science

2:28

and connection

2:31

to Gaia or to

2:33

the Earth. And

2:36

I find this a

2:38

real problem because our,

2:41

the Egyptians and the

2:44

Maya built their

2:46

buildings on top of these energy

2:48

fields for healing,

2:50

for conscious awareness, to

2:53

help them in their research and to

2:55

connect with, as we've heard from

2:57

Chris Dunn, perhaps power

2:59

cities and along with

3:01

powering them. And we don't

3:04

know a great deal about the

3:06

healing effects of geomagnetic energy. But

3:09

we do know that more and more science,

3:11

including medical science, is

3:14

recognizing electricity as a form of

3:16

healing or a healing modality. So

3:20

that's something to consider. But on

3:22

the program today, we're going to

3:24

go to Egypt and

3:26

meet with an author who has studied

3:28

in depth the Dendera

3:30

Temple known as the Hathor

3:32

Temple. And

3:35

he spent a significant amount

3:37

of time as an

3:39

engineer looking at

3:41

the details of the temple and

3:45

the symbology as a

3:47

part of it. He's

3:49

worked with noted Egyptologists in creating

3:51

this book that we'll talk about

3:53

shortly and getting

3:58

the decode on what we know. from

4:00

our current scientific paradigm.

4:04

Again, and you'll

4:06

hear this in this interview, he

4:08

believes there's more to it than just what you can

4:10

see. Symbols, images

4:14

of gods, zodiac

4:16

tablets, astronomical

4:20

planets and constellations. They

4:24

understood the subtle

4:27

energies, the Egyptians,

4:30

pre-dynastic, Egyptian or dynastic,

4:35

understood how

4:38

these planets affect us. And

4:40

this is what's really coming to bear

4:43

and why we need to pay more

4:45

attention because not understanding astronomy

4:47

and astrology as

4:49

two sciences that were really integrated

4:52

parts of our previous

4:55

epoch, the people that lived on the planet.

4:59

By not recognizing their influences on

5:01

us, we are blind, deaf

5:08

and dumb because these

5:12

energies, and I

5:14

might be able to speak a little more to

5:17

this than others because I have

5:20

trained in the Japanese-Tibetan

5:22

technique of Reiki, where

5:26

you are anointed and you're

5:29

connecting with this universal, they

5:31

call it universal life force

5:33

energy. And it's

5:35

for healing both others and yourself. I

5:38

might be plugged in a little better

5:40

than most, but if

5:42

our academics, if our

5:45

colleges, if people who

5:47

are educated in history

5:52

could present these details of

5:55

of caloric energy, geomagnetic energy,

5:57

whatever our ancestors called it,

6:01

And clarify it, I

6:03

think we would have a huge heads up on

6:07

in harmony with our environment.

6:09

That's the earth, that's the osmos

6:12

and the influence of other planets on

6:14

us. And

6:17

I think we would be better off.

6:20

I think we'd be more harm, I think we'd

6:22

have less disease. I think we'd have

6:24

less confusion

6:26

and depression. Because

6:29

we're just running in circles

6:31

with our current environment. You

6:33

know, we're stuck on

6:35

the TV set, we're stuck

6:37

looking at TikTok on our phones,

6:41

we're stuck looking at streaming

6:43

media, and very few

6:45

of us are taking time to

6:47

connect with nature, to

6:50

take walks, hikes, getaways.

6:54

I mean, I know friends who think that

6:56

going on a cruise ship is a form

6:58

of vacation. And they'll cruise

7:00

from San Diego to

7:02

Mexico, get out, visit

7:04

the town to get back on the boat. I

7:08

mean, there's nothing wrong with that. I have friends that do

7:10

a lot of that. But why

7:12

not go beyond? Why not spend a day

7:15

in town, look at the local people,

7:18

connect with the region. I

7:20

don't know. Everybody

7:22

has their choice to do what they want to do.

7:24

But we're really, really missing out

7:27

on the subtleties of our

7:29

planet, of our ancestors, of the

7:31

people who have been here

7:33

for thousands of years before we were.

7:36

So I want

7:38

to play a short excerpt from my

7:41

friend, John Anthony West, who is an

7:43

Egyptian scholar. And

7:46

if you don't know who John Anthony West was,

7:48

he wrote a book called Serpent in the Sky,

7:51

where he talks about the

7:54

of Egyptian society and

7:57

how it translates into their building.

8:01

And in this short talk, he presents

8:03

a brief overview of

8:05

Egyptian temple vibrations and

8:08

their effects on physiology. So let's have

8:11

a quick listen. But

8:16

what this means actually is that in terms

8:18

of the sacred science, understanding

8:20

that it is vibration that

8:23

produces matter finally. It is

8:25

also vibration of course that

8:28

produces the effect that art has upon

8:31

us, all art. We

8:33

know this best, we understand it best. In

8:35

music, everybody knows music is just vibration

8:37

and yet there's a tremendous difference between

8:39

a Beethoven quartet, the

8:42

star-spangled banner and the

8:44

Rolling Stones. Each

8:46

of these produce their own emotions

8:49

as it were and they produce

8:51

them solely through vibration. Well

8:53

it was Schiller, I thought it was Gertz, I made a

8:55

mistake but even I do. It

8:59

was Schiller who said that, or

9:01

who described architecture as frozen music.

9:04

And this is not just poetically

9:06

and metaphorically true, it's literally

9:09

true because architecture does in

9:11

stone what music does

9:13

in sound. In other words, it's

9:16

visual vibrations that are affecting us and

9:18

we're sort of inside the symphony as

9:21

it were when we're in a sacred

9:23

space. When we're in any space as

9:25

a matter of fact. We

9:27

are being affected emotionally by the

9:29

vibrational nature of that particular building.

9:32

So when we go into an Egyptian temple, we

9:37

are resonating to its harmonies and

9:39

proportions and so on. And if

9:41

the great sages of the past

9:44

understood that each of the cosmic

9:46

principles, which are the gods

9:49

as it were, the gods are not strange

9:52

animal-headed beings. They are the

9:54

embodiments of cosmic principles. those

10:00

cosmic principles are all in

10:03

one way or another, inextricably

10:05

related to certain numbers, interplay

10:07

of numbers, which give rise

10:09

to geometry, harmony, proportion, and

10:12

measure. And when you know the

10:14

secrets of the numbers, as it were, and the

10:16

secrets of the principles, you are able

10:19

to produce a building that

10:21

will evoke within

10:24

the emotional center

10:27

of the beholder that

10:29

particular principle. So even though

10:31

we virtually lost that, we've

10:34

lost that knowledge effectively, this is what we're

10:37

all busy trying to recoup. But

10:39

when you go into a Hathor temple, you

10:43

get a certain reaction to it. You're

10:45

reacting to Hathor. When you go into

10:47

a Horus temple, your reaction is very

10:49

different, and it varies for different people.

10:51

Some resonate to one more than another,

10:53

but there's no mistaking the different emotional

10:56

effects of these temples, just

10:58

as there's no mistaking the difference between the

11:00

emotional effect of a Bach cantata and

11:03

a Led Zeppelin rock

11:05

song, that they're very different from

11:07

each other. And the reason that they're different

11:10

is because of their constituent, of

11:12

their harmonies, and the numbers that are

11:14

involved with. John

11:19

passed away, he was about eight,

11:21

nine years ago, and

11:24

left a legacy in

11:28

his observation of this ancient Egyptian

11:32

culture. And it's

11:35

really fun to read his work

11:38

and to listen to lectures. You can go to

11:40

YouTube and listen to the John

11:42

Anthony West lecture. And

11:44

he recognized that we

11:46

are not functioning as

11:52

a society because we're disconnected.

11:55

We're disconnected from the cosmos. We're disconnected from

11:57

the earth. And

12:01

this is not a recipe for wellness

12:04

or harmony. Actually

12:07

also longevity too, because we're just kind of

12:09

living our life day to day,

12:12

wake up, go to sleep, go to work, wake

12:14

up, go to sleep, go to work. You know,

12:16

it's just not a lifestyle that's in harmony at

12:18

all. And I think

12:20

as he got older, he recognized

12:22

this and wanted to transmit as

12:25

much as he could on

12:27

the previous civilization and how

12:30

they managed to survive for thousands

12:32

of years eloquently

12:36

and they

12:39

also transmuted it into their

12:41

sculptures, their pottery, their jewelry,

12:43

their wonderful temples and buildings

12:46

and their society as

12:49

a whole. We're still very curious because

12:51

you can't get it all from the writing.

12:54

There's not a hell of a lot of books

12:57

or codices that are left.

12:59

We have to kind of guess at it, but

13:02

our historians do us a disservice

13:07

in trying to explain away subtle

13:10

energies and won't even go there. And

13:12

it's the education center. It's the education

13:14

that they receive. It's not necessarily their

13:16

fault. To get a PhD, you have

13:19

to follow books that are

13:21

out of date by hundreds of years. And

13:24

professors who need to keep their

13:26

tenure so they can't think outside

13:29

of the box for

13:31

anything other than the standard

13:34

jargon of ancient history. So

13:38

anyhow, we have a fun program today with

13:41

my guest, Jose Maria

13:43

Barbera and this

13:45

wonderful book that he's written called

13:48

Dendera, Temple of Time,

13:51

The Celestial Wisdom of Ancient Egypt.

13:55

Earth Ancients Grand Egyptian

13:58

Tour I

14:00

thought it was fantastic. I think it was

14:03

one of the best traveling experiences I've ever

14:05

had, not just from being in Egypt and

14:07

getting to see all these

14:09

sites. And they certainly, going

14:11

on a tour, made it easy, you know,

14:14

because I didn't have to plan anything. It was all

14:16

taken care of for me. But

14:18

even more so, I think traveling with a

14:20

group of people, having that opportunity to make

14:22

a bunch of new friends, I think that

14:24

was a pretty special part of it as

14:26

well. That was

14:28

a recent guest to our Earth Agents

14:31

Grand Egyptian tour last

14:33

year. This year, our tour is

14:35

April 28th through May 9th, 2024. We

14:38

all meet in Cairo. This is

14:40

a fabulous tour. Twelve days

14:43

of intimate interactions with some of

14:45

the most iconic sites in Egypt,

14:47

including pyramids, temples,

14:49

museums. And of

14:51

course, the last day of the tour,

14:53

we have a private visit to the

14:56

Khufu Pyramid. And we

14:58

actually go inside without the general public. Hi,

15:00

this is Cliff. And we

15:02

are at a pathway point. We're

15:04

almost full. This is your

15:06

chance to join a private

15:09

tour at half

15:11

the normal price charged for

15:13

similar types of itinerary. For

15:16

more information, go to

15:19

earthagents.com/tours, see the entire

15:21

itinerary, and get your

15:23

registration in. We're just about at our

15:25

limit. If you have any

15:28

questions whatsoever, go to Earth Ancients

15:30

or you, number four, the letter

15:33

[email protected], and I'll get right back

15:35

to you. The Earth

15:37

Ancients Grand Egyptian tour hosted

15:40

by Mohammad Embraheem and yours

15:42

truly, April 28th through May

15:44

9th, 2024. For

15:48

more information,

15:50

earthagents.com/tours. Thank

15:59

you. One

16:39

of the big fascinations of visiting

16:41

Egypt is the

16:43

magnificent temples. And

16:46

I've been blessed to be able to see

16:49

many of the known excavated

16:51

temples that dot

16:53

the landscape of Egypt. And

16:57

every year we make a

16:59

trip to Hathor in Dendera,

17:02

not only to see the Hathor temple, the

17:04

Isis temple that sits behind it, and

17:06

also my favorite, the temple

17:09

in front dedicated to the god Bess.

17:12

And by the way, we're going to have to have

17:14

somebody come on the program and talk about that temple

17:16

because I think it's a hell of a lot older.

17:19

And the other thing that's unique about these

17:21

temples is they're megalithic. They're

17:23

built with multiple ton

17:26

blocks of granite and sandstone.

17:28

How in the hell did they lift them? How did they move them around?

17:31

And the elegance

17:34

that these ancient Egyptians worked

17:37

in, the artistic values are just

17:39

off the charts. My

17:42

guest today has

17:44

written a fascinating book called Dendera,

17:46

Temple of Time, the

17:48

Celestial Wisdom of Ancient Egypt.

17:51

And my guest is Jose Maria

17:54

Barrera. Who would you

17:56

believe is a software

17:58

engineer? He's

18:00

an architect and he's

18:02

also a wonderful photographer. One

18:05

of my favorite publishers has released

18:08

this book, Intertraditions. I

18:11

got to tell you, there's so much to like

18:13

about this book other than the beautiful

18:16

photographs and

18:18

detailed images. Jose

18:21

has gone out of his way

18:23

to do his best to explain

18:25

the celestial astrology,

18:28

astronomy, and

18:30

the details that are embedded in this

18:32

temple, which makes it so fascinating. It's

18:34

one of these temples that we're

18:36

going to hear from Jose shortly. It's

18:38

one of these temples that you

18:40

can't go one time. You

18:42

have to go multiple times. And even if you go, I

18:45

mean, I've been there four times. Even

18:47

if you go four times, there's still

18:51

aspects of it that are left

18:53

for discovery. So Jose, welcome

18:55

to Earth Ancients. It's such a pleasure to

18:57

have you on the program. Well,

19:01

the pleasure is of my whole mind. Thank you so much for having me. When

19:05

did you first go to Egypt and

19:08

visit Dendera? That

19:11

was probably like eight years ago. I went

19:13

for the first time to Egypt with

19:15

my family, my two young daughters, and my

19:18

wife. And out

19:20

of Egypt, the most

19:22

favorite place that I found and

19:24

the most incredible place is

19:27

the Temple of Hatora Dendera, and hence

19:29

the book. What

19:31

was it about the, I mean, I've

19:33

been there. I know how is why

19:35

it's so extraordinary in

19:38

many, many ways, but what was it about

19:40

it that led you to

19:42

want to know more and then the creation of

19:44

this book? Because the book you wrote is

19:48

dominated by the beautiful photography. By

19:50

the way, the photographs are beautiful

19:52

in this book. They're really wonderful.

19:54

And you use very good equipment

19:56

to take these photographs. But what is

19:58

it about Hatora? temple

20:00

that is so

20:03

mysterious. Okay

20:05

so I think

20:07

that the first thing before we talk

20:09

about the Temple of Hathor and this

20:11

is in particular happens there but in

20:13

general is that one

20:16

of the first and most present

20:18

feelings that you get when you go

20:20

and travel to Egypt is

20:23

you feel so tiny and so

20:25

ignorant and so minute because

20:28

of the sheer magnitude and

20:30

the size and of the monuments

20:33

and and the sophistication of them

20:35

and they intricate art that that

20:37

is on the walls and

20:40

the hieroglyphs and

20:42

you feel like you are

20:44

in an alien land

20:47

looking at alien things

20:50

that they're

20:52

obviously grand use and incredible

20:54

but you don't understand and

20:57

there is this sense of

20:59

mystery that is so

21:01

captivating and I think part

21:03

of the allure of Egypt and why

21:06

is so so so

21:08

popular among people and people want to

21:10

go there is that sense

21:12

of mystery that it creates and

21:16

it makes you feel tiny it makes

21:18

you feel small just like when

21:20

you're in the presence of the pyramids and

21:22

those things are massive you feel

21:24

small but not only there

21:26

but when you see these walls covers

21:28

on wiggles and and

21:31

hieroglyphs that if you don't know what

21:33

they are they're like these alien language

21:36

you feel small again because you feel that the

21:38

amount of knowledge that you have is

21:40

so tiny and there are

21:43

so many mysteries that

21:45

make these places incredibly

21:50

attractive to me and I love mysteries

21:53

but I hate mysteries at the same

21:55

time because I feel desperate when I'm

21:58

in the presence of a mystery because I'm very

22:00

curious and I want to know. So

22:03

that's one of the things that happens in

22:05

Egypt. At

22:07

the beginning when I first went there,

22:10

I went reluctantly, let's say

22:12

that or not, I went

22:16

convinced that I wanted to go. But

22:18

before that, I was reluctant

22:21

to getting to know

22:23

Egypt, because it is so foreign

22:25

and so different that I

22:27

thought that the amount of investment that you have

22:29

to make in order to try to comprehend it

22:32

is so big that I was like, I guess

22:34

in another lifetime I'll do it not now. But

22:37

then I went to an exhibition

22:40

in Fifth Avenue, they

22:42

had a reproduction of

22:45

the tomb of King

22:47

Tut and I went

22:50

there with my daughters one day

22:53

and it was so amazing and so

22:55

beautiful. You talk about King Tut at

22:57

the Met, right? The Metropolitan Museum of

22:59

Art. Yeah, actually they had

23:01

a reproduction, it was like on Fifth Avenue.

23:04

Oh, Fifth Avenue, like a gallery or something.

23:06

Yeah, in a gallery in New York. I

23:09

thought when I went there, it was like in the

23:11

middle of winter, my daughters were little, they were like

23:13

13 and 12 or something

23:15

like that. And we

23:17

had nothing to do that day and I was

23:19

like, oh my god, we're getting into a tourist

23:21

trap. But we had nothing better

23:24

to do. And we went in and it

23:26

was incredibly done. They

23:29

used the photos that Carter took

23:31

and the real objects and they

23:33

made a perfect replica of the

23:35

rooms and they put all the

23:37

stuff inside the rooms. Like

23:39

they were in the photos the way Carter

23:42

found them. And they were

23:44

so magnificent and so beautiful that I was

23:46

like, I have to go and see your

23:48

original because this is a reproduction. I

23:51

have to see original things. And that's what took me

23:53

there. And a couple of months

23:56

later, we went to Egypt with my

23:58

family. And out of... the

24:00

whole thing, the place that I liked the

24:02

most was the Temple of Hathor at Endra.

24:05

And coming back now, after

24:08

a long deviation to

24:10

your question, what fascinates

24:13

me about this place are many

24:16

things. The first one is

24:19

that probably it's one of the best preserved structures

24:24

of ancient Egypt, even though it's

24:26

modern by Egyptian standards, right? Like

24:28

it's 2050 or 100 years old. So it's

24:30

in, relatively

24:36

speaking, is new,

24:40

but it's in perfect condition.

24:42

Like you go there and they

24:44

just restore, like a decade ago,

24:47

the ceiling, they clean up the ceiling in

24:50

at the entrance of this temple, that is

24:52

a massive ceiling for people that haven't been

24:55

there, is probably the size

24:57

of two tennis courts. And

24:59

the ceiling is supported

25:03

by 24 columns that are like seven

25:05

stories high. So this place is like

25:07

gigantic. And the ceiling is covered with

25:09

images of

25:11

celestial images and stars and

25:14

gods. And in

25:16

full color, and the original colors are still

25:18

there. And when

25:20

I went there and I saw that, I

25:23

was tantalized by my

25:26

ignorance, because I was in the presence

25:28

of something grand use, and

25:30

I didn't understand it. And

25:32

I look for, so when

25:35

I came back to New

25:37

York, when I went back,

25:39

I looked for documentation about this place because

25:41

I wanted to learn more about it. And

25:43

to my surprise, there wasn't

25:46

much documentation. Isn't that strange that

25:48

there's so little documentation? I mean,

25:50

there's, I mean, you

25:52

could go to National Geographic or the

25:55

Smithsonian and you'd probably see a chapter

25:57

or maybe a magazine dedicated to Hathor.

26:00

But there's not a great deal

26:02

of detail. In fact, the detail that

26:04

you go into, especially with the panels

26:06

on the ceiling, I don't

26:08

think anyone else has gone that far, have they?

26:11

Well, the full, there is a woman, a

26:13

French woman who is probably

26:19

the head of the French

26:22

mission in Egypt, and she's in charge

26:24

of the Temple of Hathor at Dendra.

26:28

She spent 35 years studying this

26:30

temple, and she

26:32

has written down the

26:34

translation of pretty much

26:36

every single hieroglyphs on the walls of this

26:39

place, there are hundreds of thousands of hieroglyphs.

26:44

But the problem with this literature is that

26:46

it's incredibly technical, and it's

26:49

just like the literal translation. So, oh,

26:52

on the day of Wawawawa,

26:55

let's bless the God of

26:57

Hathor. It's boring,

27:00

it's like you read it and it's like, oh my God. It

27:02

sounds like a scientific white paper where

27:04

it's all... Exactly. Yeah. So, it's so

27:07

true, and it's one of the things,

27:09

if you think about what happens when

27:11

you go to museums, you

27:13

go to museums and all these pieces,

27:17

and nobody tells you what

27:19

they mean. They just tell

27:21

you, oh, this piece, they give you a name,

27:23

this was made if they know who made it,

27:25

made by this person in your XYZ,

27:30

and that's it, and made in marble

27:32

or copper, whatever is the piece, like

27:34

this statue or the painting or whatever

27:36

it is, and that's it. That's

27:38

the end of it. Nobody tells

27:40

you what is the significance of the pieces

27:44

in museums, and why did

27:46

they put them together, and

27:48

what they mean, and what is

27:50

their significance. Same thing happens

27:53

with these technical books is they're just

27:55

stating the facts of, this

27:57

is what says on wall 32, and is this... role

28:00

of characters. And they're also writing for

28:02

their, I mean, let's be honest, Jose,

28:04

they're writing for their contemporaries, their people

28:06

in their field. If

28:09

you don't understand Egyptology or have

28:11

studied it, it doesn't make sense to

28:14

you. And there is no

28:16

context, right? Because they have all these contexts that is

28:18

not in the book because they suppose they're technical books.

28:21

So that's one thing the origin is, there

28:24

is no literature or this temple really

28:26

in English up to now. So

28:29

this book is the

28:31

book that I didn't find all

28:34

the temple. So

28:37

I was like, I think other

28:39

people will be interested in this. And

28:41

the book is, I'm

28:46

not an Egyptologist, right? Like

28:49

this is my hobby and I've

28:51

been studying a lot of it. Yeah. This

28:54

book is what I wanted to find

28:56

to explain and make sense of this

28:58

ceiling. Yeah, but I mean, yeah, and

29:01

the thing is, you're an engineer, which

29:03

is one important aspect, but you're also

29:05

an architect. So you can see the

29:08

megalithic stonework, number one, and be

29:11

in awe of that. Also

29:15

in your book, I'm an architect,

29:17

but I'm a software architect. I'm

29:19

not like that. Oh, okay. I'm

29:21

sorry. I can

29:23

appreciate the working stone. Okay.

29:26

But you're an engineer. And so as

29:28

an engineer, you can look at it

29:30

and go, whoa, how did they do

29:32

that? Or wow, they were working in heavy,

29:34

heavy stones and

29:37

so forth. Let's talk a little bit about what

29:39

we do know. In the book, you write that it's

29:42

believed that the temple was dedicated in

29:44

2500 BC. It

29:48

was probably a smaller version

29:51

or fragments of what we

29:53

see now, right? Right. So,

29:57

usually what happens is that they have

29:59

these holy sites. And you can see

30:01

that the Catholic Church was

30:03

very used that. And

30:05

it's when they found all

30:08

temples of Orthodox issues, they created and

30:10

instituted churches on top of them and

30:12

built churches on top of them. So

30:15

you have these holy sites and

30:17

with time what happens is that the places

30:19

get out of use and they

30:21

use the stones to do something

30:23

else and so on. And

30:26

they built top and top and top and

30:28

top and top. So there are different layers

30:30

in these places where just like

30:33

what happens in, like if

30:35

you go to Rome and you go to churches, you're

30:38

going to see that they're on top of Roman

30:40

temples, for example. So the

30:42

same thing happening in Egypt in

30:44

this place is this place, Hathor,

30:46

is one of the oldest deities

30:49

of Egypt. It's like, it's

30:52

pre-dynastic. It's very

30:54

old. Most ancient

30:56

deities and probably

30:58

the most important female deity and

31:02

later on all the allure of

31:04

Hathor was mostly captured by Isis.

31:09

But so Isis and

31:11

Hathor became like almost

31:13

the same. But

31:16

Hathor was a really, really

31:19

ancient and important goddess in ancient

31:21

Egypt. So

31:24

there are constructions underneath these

31:26

temples and they've been doing excavations and they

31:28

find things that are like diagnostic but 4,000

31:30

years older, things like that.

31:35

Let me talk about that for a minute because

31:37

when we go there, every

31:39

single time they've found a new

31:41

crypt, which is these little

31:43

rooms, we don't know what they were

31:46

for. And that

31:48

actual temple sits on top of

31:51

an earlier temple because there's places where the floor

31:54

has been opened up and you can

31:56

see what looks like the columns of another

31:58

temple underneath. So, and the

32:01

thing is, I don't know of anybody who's doing

32:03

ground-penetrating radar, but I'd sure like to see it.

32:05

What do you say about sitting a

32:07

temple on top of a temple? Yeah.

32:10

So, there have been excavations there,

32:12

and they have found basically

32:15

ancient, more ancient

32:17

constructions underneath the current

32:20

temple. But

32:22

that's the extent of the trilikes. And

32:24

that happens in many places, by the way, in Egypt.

32:28

So as I mentioned, this temple is a lay

32:30

temple. It's at the time of the Romans. So

32:35

this temple was built in a

32:38

big part by Cleopatra. And

32:42

she was one of, like, who was

32:44

the last Pharaoh of Egypt. So

32:47

what was her contribution? You mean she added some

32:49

of the coloring and

32:51

figures? So her father started

32:53

the construction of the temple.

32:56

I think the year 52 BC,

32:59

I think, if I'm not, or 54,

33:01

I don't remember. But

33:04

he started the construction, and two years

33:06

after he started the construction, he died.

33:10

And Cleopatra continued the construction, and

33:12

the temple was built in 30

33:14

years or 40 years,

33:17

I think. So it was under

33:20

the patronage of Cleopatra that

33:22

the main structure of the

33:24

temple was built. And

33:27

these temples are built like onions.

33:31

So they start from the inside out, and

33:33

they start with the holy of holies, with

33:35

the most internal

33:37

room. And they

33:39

start to build around, and they

33:42

construct outside and outside like an

33:44

onion. And

33:46

so the main structure of the temple was

33:48

finished, I think, in 32 years or something

33:50

like that at the time of Cleopatra. What

33:54

is the holy of holies section of that

33:56

temple? Is

33:58

it the close of the stairway? way

34:00

to the observation deck or? The

34:03

structure of these temples is all

34:06

these temples are built in the same way.

34:08

They have the same architecture. So

34:14

what you have is at the

34:16

heart of the temple, there is a small

34:18

room that is dark

34:20

and is where they kept the

34:23

Holy of Holies, the statue of

34:26

the God or the God is the deity of God. Let

34:28

me just stop you. Is that one of the crypts? No.

34:30

No, it's in a room in the middle

34:33

of the temple. Yeah. So let's

34:36

go to the punching line at the end. This

34:39

temple is a temple of fertility

34:42

and the temple where it represents is

34:44

the womb. It's like

34:46

the whole temple is

34:50

the female reproductive organ. That's

34:53

what the temple is. And so

34:57

basically what you have, right, is you

35:01

think about this when the

35:03

Pharaoh went into the temple,

35:05

he's penetrating the temple basically.

35:08

And they had these rituals of

35:10

like basically taking the statue at

35:12

the very center of the temple.

35:14

They have a statue of the

35:17

deity of the temple, in this case of the goddess Hathor.

35:21

And they took the statue and

35:23

they took it to the roof

35:25

of the temple. There are two

35:28

staircases on each side of the

35:30

temple. And in

35:33

the ceiling, they consummated the

35:36

union of Horus, of

35:38

Ettfu, which is the

35:41

concert of Hathor and Hathor.

35:44

So they're enacting a sexual

35:47

act where they're creating

35:49

life because this is a temple of

35:51

fertility. So

35:54

that's... And when you

35:56

go there and you think about it, it's

35:58

like... the whole

36:01

thing represents that.

36:03

And interesting enough, churches

36:06

are very similar. Like you go

36:08

to Vatican City, and

36:10

Vatican City is very, very similar. And

36:13

this is, I never talk about this

36:15

publicly with anyone, but this is a

36:17

working theory that I have. And

36:21

think about it, have you been in the

36:23

Vatican in some places? I've walked in

36:26

the big center in front

36:28

of that again. So if,

36:31

think about this, when you

36:33

walk on St. Peter's Square. But,

36:35

yeah, St. Peter's Square, yeah. And

36:38

you're walking towards the St. Peter

36:40

Cathedral, there is an obelisk that they

36:42

took from Egypt, and it's right in the middle of

36:44

the square there. Now,

36:47

architecturally, if

36:50

you look at St. Peter's Dome, and

36:52

you look at the obelisks, as

36:56

you walk through the road that

36:59

takes you to St. Peter, you're

37:01

walking towards the

37:03

obelisk, and behind you have

37:07

the dome. So

37:10

architecturally, what you're doing is you're

37:12

aligning the obelisk

37:15

with the dome. You're creating

37:17

an intercourse, as you're

37:19

walking in an architectural intercourse, because you're

37:21

aligning these two things, the

37:24

round dome and

37:26

the obelisk. And

37:30

as you walk in St.

37:32

Peter's Cathedral, what you're

37:34

gonna see is that in

37:36

the dome, inside, inside,

37:39

as you start to walk in,

37:42

the sun comes through the top

37:44

of the dome, right, and comes

37:46

down, and as you walk in,

37:48

what you're gonna see is you

37:51

create, you can

37:53

see a dome underneath that looks round, but

37:56

you see a middle moon, like a

37:59

crescent moon. made by the

38:01

side of the dome. I can show you pictures of

38:03

that. What it

38:05

is, is you're walking in and

38:08

what you're doing is you're creating an

38:10

eclipse of the, you're

38:12

creating the conjunction architecturally of the sun

38:14

and the moon. Because

38:17

you can see literally, you see a crescent

38:19

made by the walls of the side of

38:21

the dome and the dome and

38:24

you see basically the conjunction of the sun

38:26

and the moon. And

38:29

once you walk into the

38:32

center, right underneath the dome

38:34

is the altar in St. Peter's Cathedral.

38:37

And think about what happens at

38:39

the altar. At the altar, they're

38:41

consecrating the wafer, the Holy Wafer,

38:44

right? And so they have

38:46

something that is called a badokin, which

38:49

is this little structure inside on

38:51

top of the altar. That

38:55

is like a roof on top of the

38:57

altar underneath the dome. If

39:00

you look underneath the

39:02

badokin, this roof that

39:04

they have there, what you're going to see

39:06

is that they have an image of the Holy Ghost

39:08

inside on top. So

39:11

what you're doing, what the priest

39:13

or the pope in this case, which is in St.

39:16

Peter's Cathedral, what he's doing

39:18

when he consecrates the wafer,

39:21

right? When he's doing

39:23

the communion, what

39:25

you have is he's aligning the

39:27

light of the sun that comes on at the top

39:29

of the dome with

39:32

the badokin that represents

39:35

basically the

39:37

immaculate conception with

39:39

the altar where he has the

39:43

cup and the

39:45

wafer where he's bringing

39:47

into life, he's making the

39:50

wafer into flesh and the wine

39:54

into blood is

39:56

the miracle of the

39:58

immaculate conception. He's reincarnated,

40:01

he's reenacting ritualistically

40:05

the immaculate conception, the miracle of life.

40:09

So all these places, what you have

40:11

is, that's the

40:13

supreme miracle is life. Right?

40:16

Like we're here in this universe, we exist,

40:20

and life is an

40:22

incredible miracle. So

40:26

you're talking about it symbolically,

40:29

which is important, but go beyond that and

40:31

talk about it energetically, when

40:34

somebody is passing through

40:36

these monuments like St.

40:38

Peter's Cathedral, when

40:41

they pass into Hathor. Symbolically

40:45

and energetically is the

40:47

same thing. You see, because we

40:51

are made of psyche, right?

40:54

We are consciousness and

40:58

the world is not made of

41:00

atoms and energy. The

41:03

world is made of ideas and

41:05

concepts and

41:07

preconceptions. And

41:09

we live in a world of concepts

41:13

and we live in a world of ideas. So

41:16

when you create these rituals, which

41:19

are magical rituals at the end, what

41:22

you're doing is you are

41:24

channeling the psyche into

41:27

these incredible things.

41:31

And as you reenact and repeat and

41:33

repeat and repeat these rituals, what

41:35

you're doing is you're taking all

41:37

these ideas and these concepts and these

41:39

energies, these psychic energy, and

41:42

you're giving it life into,

41:44

in quotes, you're giving it manifestation

41:48

in reality to a behavior of

41:50

people. So

41:53

it's a pure act of magic because

41:55

magic is the manifestation.

42:00

of the psyche into a

42:02

material world. And you

42:04

do that through ritual. That's ritual magic.

42:07

That's what it is. And all these

42:09

things, what they're doing is you're

42:11

enacting that you're creating life. You're

42:14

the Pope is

42:16

bringing into into the world, God

42:19

incarnated Jesus Christ on the

42:21

wafer and the and the and the and the blood.

42:24

Right. But the whole thing is

42:26

in harmony with the temple

42:29

and the architecture of the temple and

42:31

the alignments, architectural alignments and the geometry

42:33

of the temple and the

42:36

ritual and the instance and

42:38

the music and the clothes

42:40

and the whole thing. Yeah,

42:43

you talk about that in your book. You say

42:45

that the features in

42:47

the temple, the Hathor temple

42:52

are inspiring for

42:54

symbology, time

42:56

and cognition. What

42:59

do you mean by cognition when you're

43:02

discussing Hathor temple? So I'm

43:07

thinking of you just explained

43:14

St. Peter's and you

43:16

kind of opened it with the

43:18

Hathor temples construction and it's multi-level

43:21

beauty and elegance. But

43:25

is there something about enhanced

43:28

cognition when we pass through this

43:31

wonderful temple? Absolutely.

43:33

And I think

43:36

one of the problems

43:38

that we have today is

43:42

that we have lost a

43:44

lot of knowledge because of

43:47

hyperspecialization. So what

43:49

has happened is that since

43:52

probably like the I think the the the the

43:55

killing strike and

43:58

that culminated this is the French

44:00

Revolution with the time of enlightenment, where

44:04

they took reason and they

44:06

replaced the church with the

44:08

goddess reason. And

44:11

ever since, what we have done is

44:13

we have taken reason and

44:16

quantity and measurement as

44:18

the supreme God and

44:20

the supreme deity in our society. And

44:24

we have forgotten any other ways

44:26

of knowing, of knowledge. So

44:29

today, we live

44:31

in a world that everything has been

44:33

reduced to number and measurement. And

44:36

your health is what is your

44:38

cholesterol level, that's a number, what

44:40

is your temperature, that's a number,

44:42

what is your height, what

44:45

is your weight, all of those things are

44:47

measurements. And so what

44:49

reason comes from reckoning, that

44:52

is ratio, that

44:54

is comparison of quantities. So

44:56

anything that you cannot quantify,

44:59

like consciousness,

45:02

like awareness, that

45:04

you cannot put a number on that, you cannot

45:07

measure that, then are things

45:09

that are simply not part of the

45:11

system that we have acknowledged today. And

45:14

they're unexplainable. So in

45:18

the past, and don't

45:20

take me wrong, reason is

45:24

the tool of Lucifer, of

45:27

light, right? Enlightenment. Lucifer

45:29

means light bearer. And

45:32

what was the promise of Lucifer

45:34

to Adam and Eve when they

45:36

ate from the tree of knowledge,

45:39

is they would become like gods. And

45:41

guess what, we have done that, we

45:44

can fly, we have

45:46

telepathy, all these

45:48

tools that we have created with

45:50

reason today, we can go to

45:53

space, we have rockets, all these

45:55

things is an

45:58

incredibly powerful tool. But you It

46:03

destroys and kills the spirit

46:06

because it's

46:09

antithetic to the

46:11

spirit because racial

46:13

reasoning, counting, quantity

46:16

cannot commensurate the

46:19

spirit because the spirit cannot

46:21

be quantified.

46:25

And only the experience and

46:27

experience itself, which is what we

46:30

have, is the ultimate tool of

46:32

knowledge cannot

46:35

be quantified. So

46:37

the theory that we have to explain

46:39

everything today and we took that as

46:41

a supreme deity cannot

46:43

explain the spirit. Therefore

46:46

it kills the spirit and

46:49

treats us as machines and

46:51

just automatons. So we've

46:54

lost that subtlety, the ability to

46:56

recognize. Correct. And it

46:58

starts in language. So

47:01

imagine that the

47:04

sounds of your language are

47:06

the names of your gods. So

47:10

the sun, ra, ra,

47:14

is the name of the sun, but it's

47:17

also the name of the god of the

47:19

sun, of light. And

47:21

imagine that the basic phonemes and

47:23

the basic sounds of your language are

47:25

the names of the gods. Then

47:29

anything you name, I

47:31

don't know, like you say a box

47:34

or a house, then

47:36

is composed by the sounds of the name

47:38

of the house, but those are the names

47:41

of the gods. So as

47:44

you name anything, what you're doing is everything

47:47

around you is imbued by

47:51

the essence,

47:54

the divine essence that are the gods.

47:57

That's symbolically what they are. the

48:01

fundamental principles of creation

48:03

and reality. So when

48:07

your sounds of your language, your

48:09

phonemes are sacred, you live

48:11

in a world comprised and made

48:14

out of God, of

48:16

deities, because anything when you name

48:18

it, you

48:20

are spelling the names of

48:22

the gods that comprise that.

48:25

So all of a sudden, you are living

48:27

in a materialistic world made of

48:29

objects and utilitarian things. And no,

48:31

anything that you can name is

48:34

divine because it's created,

48:36

it's composed by

48:38

the gods because the name

48:41

is the gods. Imagine

48:44

that we live in a world like that. Imagine

48:46

how meaningful it becomes all of a

48:48

sudden. And think a

48:50

lot, because I think

48:52

one of the most beautiful things about Egypt,

48:55

and that's what happens when you have autototenous

48:58

cultures, is

49:00

that the culture

49:02

in Egypt, in ancient Egypt, can

49:04

only happen at that place. When

49:08

you look and you detail the

49:11

hieroglyphs, and

49:13

what you realize is they are

49:16

the animals of denial, and

49:19

they are the flowers of denial, and

49:21

they're the utensils that they use in

49:23

the day-to-day life, and they

49:25

are the sacred writing. But

49:28

it's beautiful because

49:30

it's just like the dates that grow

49:33

on the palms on the side of the

49:35

denial. The

49:38

culture is

49:41

the fruit, just like the

49:43

dates are. Yeah, the fruit front of the...

49:46

Yeah, I love that analogy. Beautiful. And

49:48

then, but imagine how

49:52

meaningful it is, because the

49:55

place where you are is

49:57

what creates this culture. full

50:00

of meaning, everything is meaningful and it

50:02

cannot be anywhere else but there. Now

50:06

we live in cultures

50:09

where the fruits of cultures are not

50:11

native but there are cultures

50:14

of war and conquering so they're

50:16

foreign to us. So my name is

50:19

Jose but to me

50:21

that's an abstraction, it's just like my name

50:23

is a pointer. The word

50:25

itself has no meaning. If

50:27

you are native from somewhere like in

50:29

India or your name

50:32

means something, like

50:34

your name means the divine God of the

50:36

morning or whatever it is, that's your name,

50:38

that's who you are. We live

50:40

in an abstraction because it was a culture

50:42

imposed on us and our

50:44

language and these monotheistic

50:47

religions are just religions

50:49

of conquering and

50:51

war and their abstract.

50:55

They detach you from the spirit and

50:58

they're incredibly powerful at conquest

51:02

but they take you

51:07

out of the flesh and

51:12

it's not harmonious. Interesting.

51:16

Let's talk about the functionality of Hathor

51:18

temple. We know that people

51:20

went there to worship the gods. We

51:23

know that they were there for healing. There's

51:27

a wonderful ceiling

51:31

that has the

51:33

zodiac on it so astrology

51:35

was very important and

51:38

also it was for sky

51:40

watching or astronomy,

51:42

astrology and astronomy. You

51:46

talk about this in your book. What

51:49

was the astronomical function

51:52

of the temple? Do we know? I

51:55

think so, yes. I

51:57

think that's the core of the book is

51:59

that. So for

52:01

start, how much time do we have? We're fine. We're

52:03

going to go as long as we need to. Okay,

52:06

good. So let's

52:09

start somewhere else for that. And is

52:11

that the sense of

52:13

time is very different from

52:15

what we have today at what

52:18

we was in antiquity. Our

52:21

time is linear and

52:23

is ideologically linear, right?

52:25

Like we come here and

52:28

humans were

52:31

expelled from the fall of

52:33

paradise. And

52:35

we come here and then came Christ,

52:37

the Redenter, and then we

52:39

die. And depending on our

52:41

actions in this world, we're going to

52:43

spend our, the rest

52:46

of the time in eternity,

52:48

in hell or heaven. But

52:51

it's linear. It's like you have a

52:53

start, right? And then the

52:55

time goes as an arrow and

52:57

it has an end. That's it. The

53:00

conception of time in these autotonic,

53:02

say, ancient

53:07

cultures was not linear.

53:09

It was cyclical. And

53:12

you could see the time

53:14

as the rhythms at the cadence of

53:17

life. So,

53:21

and you can see, you can all of a sudden, we

53:24

measure time like days and it's like one day

53:26

to the other. And then it

53:29

goes the first day of the year, the second, the

53:31

third, or 3,000 years

53:34

later, whatever time

53:37

in Egypt and in other cultures

53:39

was cyclical. And

53:41

it was comprised by different types

53:44

of cycles. So the

53:46

first audio cycle is the cycle of the day

53:49

and the night. So

53:51

every day you can think that time

53:53

restarts, right? And the way they represented

53:55

this was the meat of

53:58

Osiris and Isis. So

54:00

Osiris dies every day and gets

54:02

resurrected and goes back and

54:04

forth. And the sun is born in

54:06

the morning and dies in the afternoon

54:09

at sunset. And

54:13

time, and they came up by the way

54:15

with the idea of having 24 hours

54:17

during the day. But

54:20

the difference on their

54:22

hours is that because they're in

54:24

a northern latitude, then

54:28

the days, the length of the day changes

54:30

over time, right, over the year. But

54:34

they measure the hours, the hours were

54:36

organic. They were not like equal

54:39

amounts of time like we have them. But

54:41

their day, the 12 hours of the day

54:44

started at sunrise and

54:47

ended at sunset. And

54:49

the 12 hours of the night started

54:52

at sunset and ended at sunrise. But

54:55

they change in length because

54:58

in winter, the night stretches, the

55:00

hours were longer, the

55:03

12 hours of the night were longer, and the 12

55:05

hours of the day were shorter. And

55:07

in summer, the 12 hours of the day were longer

55:10

and the 12 hours of the night were shorter. So

55:12

they were like accordions. They stretch, they were

55:15

organic. Because

55:17

what was important was

55:22

the qualities of

55:25

the time. So

55:29

let me put it this way. In

55:33

our time, in the way we measure time, every

55:35

hour is the same as

55:38

any other hour. But

55:40

we know that time psychologically is

55:42

very different. When we're like, we're

55:45

having a good time, time goes

55:47

very fast. When we're bored, time

55:49

goes slowly. The

55:51

sun, to us, is

55:54

an abstraction that is a

55:57

radiation, like a nuclear

55:59

ball. somewhere like eight light

56:01

years away from us. And

56:03

that's it, right? Like, it's that thing for

56:05

them, the sun had qualities, had

56:08

character. So the sun in the

56:10

morning, at sunrise, has

56:15

different qualities, is less warm

56:17

than the sun at noon. And

56:21

the dying sun in the afternoon is

56:23

very different. The color of the sun, the mood

56:25

of the sun is different. So

56:27

they represented the cycle of the sun, which

56:29

is basically the ceiling, what it is, is

56:32

all this astronomy is the beings in the

56:36

sky. Right. It's

56:39

a representation of the different

56:41

cycles of time. And one

56:44

of the panels is the hours of the day.

56:46

And what they represent is the different hours, the

56:48

12 hours of the day, the

56:50

sun on a boat

56:52

at different moments of time. And

56:55

in the morning, what they did is this

56:57

analogy of the sun and

56:59

the life of a person. So in the

57:02

morning, the sun is a

57:04

little child. At noon, is

57:07

represented as a ram, which is potency,

57:09

right? Instead, the potency of the sun

57:12

at the noon. In

57:14

the afternoon, right before sunset, is

57:16

an old guy with a cane, because

57:19

the sun is weak at that time. So

57:23

all of a sudden, you're qualifying,

57:25

not quantifying the sun, you're giving

57:28

it qualities. You're

57:30

giving it flavor, taste, right?

57:33

It's organic. It becomes something that is not

57:37

an abstraction, a

57:39

number. It's your life.

57:42

The sun is life. I'm

57:45

going to take a short commercial break

57:47

to allow our sponsors to identify themselves.

57:51

And we will return shortly

57:53

with my guest today, Jose

57:55

Maria Barrera, discussing his

57:57

latest book, Dendera,

58:00

the Temple of Time. We'll

58:03

be right back. My

58:39

guest today is Jose Maria Barrera.

58:42

He is a photographer but

58:44

also a software engineer who has

58:47

written a fabulous book called

58:49

Dendera, Temple of Time. And

58:52

he has chronicled the construction of

58:54

this unusual temple and

58:57

also photographed this magnificent

58:59

celestial ceiling that

59:02

is a snapshot of our

59:04

cosmos. Let's

59:08

talk about the Dendera calendar

59:10

which is up on the

59:12

ceiling. It's the actual zodiac

59:15

that Napoleon scientists took and they have

59:17

it in the Louvre and then later

59:20

they made a copy of it and

59:22

it's a big plastic roof ceiling but

59:24

it's still the same thing. Why

59:27

do the Egyptians play such great

59:30

emphasis on the zodiac

59:33

along with astronomy? It's

59:35

almost like they were two

59:38

sciences that they worked

59:41

with. Is there something that we

59:43

have forgotten? Yeah, so

59:46

I think this distinction that we

59:48

have today like astronomy and astrology

59:51

were the same thing. We have

59:53

come to these nuances and

59:55

differences right but before there

59:59

was one... unified field of knowledge.

1:00:03

And it had different, so the

1:00:06

main purpose of astronomy in general,

1:00:09

or astrology, whatever you want to call it,

1:00:11

is divination. Now,

1:00:15

for practical purposes, Egypt

1:00:19

depends on the flooding of the

1:00:21

Nile River. As

1:00:24

an agri-co- as a, like imagine

1:00:26

Egypt, Egypt is a desert with

1:00:28

an oasis created by the Nile

1:00:30

River. And it's a

1:00:33

paradox. It's this paradoxical

1:00:35

thing that is the

1:00:37

harshest and driest place

1:00:39

in the world, and

1:00:42

all of a sudden you have the

1:00:44

blessing of the water of the Nile

1:00:46

and the minerals that come down Ethiopia

1:00:48

on the Nile that create the most

1:00:50

fertile land in the world. But there

1:00:52

was another cycle that was the yearly

1:00:54

cycle of the flooding of the Nile.

1:00:58

So for an

1:01:00

agricultural society and for the Egyptians in

1:01:02

particular, determining

1:01:05

when the flooding would happen

1:01:09

was of existential

1:01:11

importance, because

1:01:14

all their culture depended on

1:01:16

an older sustenance and everything depended

1:01:19

on the flooding of the Nile.

1:01:21

So it happens to be that

1:01:24

the flooding of the Nile, it doesn't

1:01:26

happen anymore because the Nile was dumped,

1:01:30

but before the Nile,

1:01:33

the flooding

1:01:35

of the Nile is very regular. So

1:01:37

what they found is that what

1:01:40

else is regular? Well, the movement of the

1:01:43

stars in the sky. So

1:01:45

by observing, and this is why

1:01:47

the temples were observatories, because by

1:01:49

observing the stars, I

1:01:52

can measure time during the year

1:01:54

and I can predict events of

1:01:58

importance. Like, like... of

1:02:00

existential importance, not like in the

1:02:03

horoscope of who, am

1:02:05

I gonna be lucky today and I'm

1:02:07

gonna fall in love? Yes or no?

1:02:09

No. Not that kind of, this is

1:02:11

existential importance. Is the Nile gonna

1:02:14

flood yes or no? And when is it

1:02:16

gonna flood? Because from that depends when I'm

1:02:19

gonna cultivate and I'm

1:02:21

gonna plant and I'm gonna harvest,

1:02:23

like everything in my society revolves

1:02:25

around that. So the

1:02:28

astronomer priests look at the

1:02:31

sky for

1:02:33

signs of the gods

1:02:35

in the sky, the stars, that

1:02:39

would predict with that when

1:02:41

the Nile would flood and

1:02:43

based on that knowledge, they would

1:02:46

enact and create rituals, the

1:02:48

ritual of the harvest, the

1:02:50

ritual of the flooding, the

1:02:52

ritual that modulate the behavior

1:02:56

of people in the

1:02:58

Egyptian society. So basically the

1:03:02

temples and the priests worked as

1:03:05

space makers to align

1:03:07

the cycles of the gods or

1:03:10

the stars with

1:03:13

the cycles of nature and

1:03:15

the cycles of culture

1:03:17

to create a harmonious society.

1:03:19

And I think the trick and

1:03:21

the reason why they were so

1:03:23

successful and they lasted for so long

1:03:25

is that they were able to

1:03:28

create a society harmonious with their surroundings.

1:03:30

With Gaia. And the reality that they

1:03:32

live on. They were

1:03:34

so sophisticated that

1:03:37

another thing that they had in every temple

1:03:39

in Egypt or in most temples was something

1:03:41

called the nylometer. The

1:03:43

nylometer was a well with

1:03:45

a scale on the side where they

1:03:47

measure the level of the water of the

1:03:50

Nile. And think

1:03:52

about this, what they did with this based

1:03:54

on that level was they

1:03:56

calibrated how much they would tax

1:03:58

the society. depending on how much

1:04:00

flooding they had that year. Because

1:04:03

if there was not too much water,

1:04:06

then the crops would be poor

1:04:08

that year. And if they taxed

1:04:10

too much, then they would impoverish the

1:04:13

society. And if there was too much

1:04:15

water, then the floodings

1:04:17

would destroy the fields and so on.

1:04:19

And again, so what they

1:04:21

were looking was for the right amount of

1:04:23

water to happen. And based on that, they

1:04:26

calibrated how much, what percentage

1:04:28

they would tax the... Wow,

1:04:33

I didn't know that. That's pretty common.

1:04:35

Imagine how sophisticated. Think about our IRS,

1:04:37

like, oh, we are the most powerful

1:04:40

culture in the universe. The

1:04:42

IRS has a fixed rate. It doesn't matter if

1:04:44

it's a good year, or a year of recession,

1:04:46

you have to pay the same damage. Yeah.

1:04:50

But you see, it's not harmonious

1:04:52

with society. That cannot last for

1:04:54

too long because people are gonna

1:04:56

revolt, or the

1:04:58

state is not calibrated to be

1:05:00

optimal. Why... It

1:05:03

seems like we in our current society

1:05:06

have downplayed astrology,

1:05:10

whereas these ancient cultures, the Chinese,

1:05:12

the Maya, Sumerians, the

1:05:15

Egyptians, made

1:05:17

it part of their society. So

1:05:20

the influences of the constellations

1:05:24

must have, they must have understood the

1:05:26

subtle energies, the influences of these

1:05:28

planets on Earth. What do

1:05:31

you say to that? Oh,

1:05:33

absolutely. You like it. So think about like

1:05:35

the obvious ones, right? Like, think

1:05:38

about the sun. By that, it's the

1:05:40

first cycle that you have there. Yeah. So,

1:05:43

great day and night. And

1:05:45

think about seeking, like in

1:05:47

your psyche, what does the sun

1:05:50

do? So at night,

1:05:53

you sleep and you

1:05:55

dream. And at day,

1:05:57

you're awake and you live in this... collective

1:06:00

reality So so

1:06:02

just think about that for a second like like

1:06:05

the movement of the Sun or The

1:06:08

earth like around the Sun or the Sun

1:06:10

around the earth depending on how you look

1:06:12

at it determines

1:06:15

if you're dreaming or you're awake and

1:06:19

Then you go to another one the moon Which

1:06:22

is one of the other panels that you have in

1:06:24

the in the temple the

1:06:26

moon Determines

1:06:30

the fertility of humans

1:06:34

the the The

1:06:37

fertility the fertility cycle Of

1:06:43

woman is locked

1:06:46

is synchronized with the faces of

1:06:48

the moon So

1:06:52

hormones the hormonal rhythms The

1:06:56

moods Are

1:07:00

aligned with

1:07:03

the faces of the moon and And

1:07:05

you have like there is something called lunatics

1:07:08

relics like lunatics Lunatics

1:07:11

is and this happens when there is full moon

1:07:13

like like People

1:07:16

go crazy their hormones go crazy

1:07:19

correct and The

1:07:23

moon is is the planet of water

1:07:26

Mm-hmm it affects me in

1:07:28

in in the past they had

1:07:30

four elements one of them was water the

1:07:35

The planet that determine the the

1:07:37

rhythms of water or influences water

1:07:41

Is the moon and it's obvious right like look

1:07:43

at the ocean goes up and down depending

1:07:46

on where the moon is and So

1:07:49

you have all these? Influences

1:07:52

that happens right and and

1:07:54

they affect your hormones affect

1:07:56

your your sleeping cycles affect

1:07:59

your psyche So,

1:08:01

the planets are

1:08:04

intertwined, these celestial beings

1:08:06

are intertwined with our

1:08:09

psyches. Remember

1:08:11

what I was saying before, we're made of psyches.

1:08:15

We are consciousness. We are

1:08:17

spirit. So,

1:08:22

that's before

1:08:24

we kill the spirit by

1:08:26

introducing only reason as the

1:08:29

supreme goddess, there were

1:08:32

other gods. Yeah. And

1:08:34

they're super important because they determine who we

1:08:36

are. And it's sad that we

1:08:39

have delegitimized

1:08:42

astrology and now

1:08:44

it's like you look at your Sunday paper to find

1:08:46

out what's going to happen for you, the Virgo, the

1:08:50

Gemini, whatever for that following week which

1:08:52

has kind of made it into a

1:08:54

cartoon. Right. When it really does have

1:08:56

more... We have the ability to prostitute everything,

1:08:58

right? Yeah. So,

1:09:01

yeah, we are because it's the only thing

1:09:03

like if

1:09:06

you cannot quantify it, then you have to

1:09:08

mock it and ridicule it because that's the

1:09:10

only thing you can do with it. You

1:09:13

have to destroy it. The

1:09:15

book we're talking about is Dendera, Temple

1:09:18

of Time, The Celestial Wisdom of Ancient

1:09:21

Egypt. And we're speaking

1:09:23

with the author, Jose Maria Barrera.

1:09:26

I want to get into these wonderful

1:09:28

panels which makes up a

1:09:30

large part of your book. First

1:09:35

of all, I want you to talk

1:09:37

a little bit about the makeup of

1:09:39

the temple. There's massive columns in

1:09:41

the very beginning. And

1:09:44

the capitals are the head of Hathor

1:09:47

at the top. Why do you think

1:09:49

they did that? Just to sanctify the goddess

1:09:52

Hathor? Because her

1:09:54

head is not only

1:09:56

on...it's like four parts of the capital.

1:10:00

Those columns are

1:10:02

huge. Talk a little bit about those

1:10:04

because they're very

1:10:06

unique. So this ceiling

1:10:08

is the size of two tennis courts,

1:10:11

right? And rests

1:10:13

on 24 columns, one for each hour

1:10:15

of the day. And

1:10:18

each of the columns, as you mentioned, has

1:10:20

the head of the goddess Hathor on top.

1:10:22

Actually, what they represent are a

1:10:25

musical instrument a rattle that they used

1:10:28

to have called the cistern. And

1:10:31

each of these columns represents

1:10:33

a cistern that is

1:10:35

a shaker that they used to use in

1:10:37

rituals and was the instrument of the goddess

1:10:39

Hathor because one of the things that the

1:10:42

goddess was the

1:10:44

idea of was music and rhythm.

1:10:47

But more than that is harmony.

1:10:50

So what you have at the

1:10:52

entrance of this temple is you

1:10:55

have these musical instruments, which is a symbol

1:10:57

of harmony, supporting

1:11:01

the ceiling where the different

1:11:03

rhythms of

1:11:06

life are represented. So

1:11:08

what it is is the whole, that's why the

1:11:10

book is called Temple of Time because

1:11:14

this ceiling represents the cycles and

1:11:16

the rhythms of time. So music,

1:11:19

which is one of the attributes

1:11:21

of the goddess, and the other

1:11:23

one is fertility, right?

1:11:25

All these things are cyclical. So

1:11:28

what you have in this ceiling is

1:11:30

the representation of harmony and cycles and

1:11:32

time. Wow. Measured

1:11:35

by the stars. Right. Let's talk

1:11:37

about the temple. You call it

1:11:40

the ceiling of pronas,

1:11:42

pronaeus. And

1:11:45

that is, I guess that's kind of

1:11:47

a representation of time, right? So

1:11:52

pronaeus is, so basically the nails is

1:11:56

the main whole of the temple. The

1:12:00

pronaeus is what goes before the naeus,

1:12:02

which is the entrance. That's

1:12:06

where these 24 columns are. And

1:12:09

the temple, as we mentioned

1:12:11

before, represents the reproductive womb,

1:12:14

but it's also the temple

1:12:17

represents the universe. The

1:12:19

temple is as

1:12:21

above, so below. It's a

1:12:23

small representation of the universe. And it

1:12:25

was the house of the deities that

1:12:27

live in the temple. And

1:12:32

if you go to this, the floor is

1:12:34

the earth. The columns

1:12:37

are the trees. And in other temples, like

1:12:39

the temple of Esna, you can see columns

1:12:42

represented as trees. And the ceiling

1:12:44

was the sky. So it's like

1:12:47

a small model of

1:12:49

the universe. But

1:12:51

they were creating, which

1:12:53

was the house of the deity of the temple,

1:12:56

in this case, of the goddess Hathor. Yeah. You

1:12:59

mentioned in the book one of

1:13:01

the reasons that the ceiling is

1:13:03

so well preserved after thousands

1:13:05

of years is the fact that it's so dry

1:13:08

there. And

1:13:10

also, didn't they have to

1:13:13

dig out a portion of the temple because it was

1:13:15

partially buried in the sand? Correct.

1:13:19

So when they, in

1:13:21

modern times, one

1:13:26

of the first modern encounters of

1:13:28

this temple with the Western world

1:13:31

was at the invasion of

1:13:33

Napoleon of Egypt at

1:13:35

the turn of the 19th century. He

1:13:39

went there when he was

1:13:42

invading Egypt, and he brought all

1:13:44

these academics

1:13:49

to study and basically what he

1:13:51

wanted to do in Egypt, he

1:13:54

wanted to do basically what Alexander the

1:13:56

Great had done and what the

1:13:59

Romans had done was to take

1:14:02

Egypt and make it the breadbasket

1:14:04

of the Roman Empire. So

1:14:07

Napoleon that had big

1:14:09

dreams as all

1:14:12

these guys have, what

1:14:14

he wanted to do was to have

1:14:16

the French Empire and

1:14:18

make Egypt into the

1:14:21

breadbasket of the French Empire.

1:14:24

In order to do that, he had to

1:14:26

basically create infrastructure in

1:14:28

order to grow like...

1:14:32

So this is the time of the Enlightenment and what

1:14:34

they wanted to do was to technify

1:14:37

and create infrastructure

1:14:40

in Egypt so they could grow things

1:14:42

there. So he brought all these engineers

1:14:44

and architects and artists and all these

1:14:47

people to all these surveys to do

1:14:49

this, but his

1:14:52

campaign went horribly

1:14:54

wrong and these people, these

1:14:56

academics were stranded for three

1:14:59

years in Egypt and

1:15:01

what they decided to do was to just go

1:15:04

touring in tourism during these

1:15:06

three years and create

1:15:10

document, document everything that they saw

1:15:13

and that's the beginning of modern

1:15:15

Egyptology basically. And when they came

1:15:18

to this temple for the first

1:15:20

time, yeah, the temple was covered

1:15:22

up to like halfway through on

1:15:25

sand because the sand of the desert

1:15:27

like blows all the time and for

1:15:29

2,000 years that these people have been

1:15:32

abandoned, then it was halfway through covering

1:15:36

in sand. Yeah. And there were

1:15:38

veg wings living inside and they

1:15:40

had created like on the roof

1:15:42

of the temple, like a little

1:15:44

village where you have these variants

1:15:46

living and inside

1:15:49

the temple they created like wildfires because

1:15:52

to cook and to warm up at

1:15:54

that night because it gets cold in

1:15:56

the desert and then the

1:15:58

soot, the smoke. black

1:16:00

and the whole ceiling so when they

1:16:02

came in they could see the shapes

1:16:04

of the ceiling but the colors were.

1:16:08

Disappear underneath the suit

1:16:10

right and that's what

1:16:12

they clean by the way in

1:16:14

the last decade and all the

1:16:16

colors are you know colors were

1:16:19

there. I'm a no way that's

1:16:21

protected the colors yeah for years

1:16:23

amazing let's pick

1:16:25

a panel once you give us.

1:16:28

What you choose one or two that

1:16:30

you are most impressed with and

1:16:33

explain what perhaps a

1:16:36

cyclic panel that. Has

1:16:39

sun cycles or something just to give

1:16:41

our listeners an idea of. Not

1:16:44

only the complexity of

1:16:46

these panels but what they represent. Okay

1:16:49

so the ceiling is comprised by

1:16:51

seven seven pounds a central one

1:16:53

and three on each side on

1:16:56

the West side and on the

1:16:58

East side there are three and

1:17:00

three. They

1:17:02

site represents the day site and

1:17:04

the West side represents the night

1:17:07

site also the

1:17:09

East side represents life. And

1:17:13

the West side represents that and

1:17:15

if you go to Egypt you're going to see that all the

1:17:17

burials. Like the burial places like

1:17:19

in the value of the king or the

1:17:21

value of the Queen is on the West

1:17:24

side because he's where the sun sets. Where

1:17:27

the sun dies so he's allegorically that's

1:17:29

the side of that and when the

1:17:31

sun when the sun rises is the

1:17:34

side of birth that is based. And

1:17:36

that's why is the West day night

1:17:39

and so on right is just symbolic

1:17:41

and allegory so the

1:17:43

central panel. And

1:17:45

the way that the the cycles

1:17:47

are the ceiling represents.

1:17:52

The entirety of existence.

1:17:56

Meaning it goes from the

1:17:58

present to eternity. That's the

1:18:01

entirety of time from now

1:18:03

to eternity. So the

1:18:06

center, the central panel, the

1:18:08

central panel that goes on

1:18:10

top of the main axis of the temple

1:18:13

is where you had all the traffic of the temple

1:18:15

because we saw the entrance. So all

1:18:18

the traffic of people coming and going out

1:18:20

in and out was underneath

1:18:23

the central panel. This

1:18:25

central panel represents the present. That

1:18:28

was the panel of the pharaohs. The

1:18:30

pharaohs were the incarnation

1:18:33

of the gods. In

1:18:37

particular, they were the, they were

1:18:39

Horus incarnated. So

1:18:41

these, and the

1:18:43

pharaoh is the

1:18:46

nexus between this reality

1:18:49

and divinity. The

1:18:55

pharaoh was the god incarnated.

1:18:58

So this

1:19:00

central panel represents that. And

1:19:05

it's the present. And then as

1:19:08

you start to go to the

1:19:10

sides, to your panels, they're slower

1:19:12

and slower cycles, right? With slower

1:19:14

frequencies, the day, the

1:19:17

month, the year. And

1:19:19

then the ceiling is enclosed

1:19:22

by the goddess Nuth, that is the

1:19:24

sky. That is

1:19:26

the blackness of the sky. And

1:19:29

that's eternity because it's immovable. Nothing

1:19:32

happens. Nothing moves. That's eternity.

1:19:34

So the slowest possible frequencies

1:19:36

when nothing moves. The

1:19:39

fastest possible frequency is the center

1:19:41

that is the present. So

1:19:43

what you have there is a whole map

1:19:46

of existence of any possibility in

1:19:48

time. And

1:19:51

then as I mentioned before, one

1:19:53

of the first panels that you see is

1:19:55

the panel where they have the boats with

1:19:57

the sun at different stages of life. a

1:20:01

child at noon and an old

1:20:03

guy in the afternoon, that

1:20:06

represents the journey of

1:20:08

the sun during the day. That's

1:20:11

the first cycle. Then on the other

1:20:13

side, the first panel

1:20:15

in the west is the panel of the moon

1:20:19

and is the month. By

1:20:22

the way, month and moon

1:20:24

is the same word menstruation.

1:20:27

It's the same word. Those three things

1:20:29

are the same word, basically, etymologically. That's

1:20:32

the cycle of fertility, the

1:20:35

panel of 28.5 days or whatever is

1:20:37

the month, the

1:20:39

length of the month. Then

1:20:42

you have two other panels on each

1:20:44

side. There was something called the decans.

1:20:47

The decans was 36 groups

1:20:51

of stars that they used to measure the

1:20:53

hours of the night. That

1:20:58

represents the night, but also a different

1:21:02

decan appears every 10 days.

1:21:05

36 by 10 is 360, which

1:21:10

were the original length of the year

1:21:12

on Egypt, 360

1:21:14

days, and then they added five more for

1:21:17

five gods, and that's 350 days.

1:21:22

That's 365 days. That's

1:21:27

another contribution in astronomy of the Egyptians

1:21:30

is the year, basically, the 365 day

1:21:32

year. Then

1:21:37

on the sides, the panels,

1:21:39

you have the constellations of

1:21:42

the sodiac that represents

1:21:44

the year, and then the

1:21:46

great year, which is the precession,

1:21:48

the quinoxal precession. Then

1:21:50

you close this with the goddess,

1:21:53

which is eternity. Well, wait a minute.

1:21:55

Are you saying that the precession of

1:21:57

the equinox is explained in

1:21:59

the. hieroglyphs on the ceiling? No.

1:22:03

Basically, the

1:22:06

observation of the change

1:22:08

or the procession, right? Like if

1:22:11

you think about Egypt, so

1:22:13

first of all, the signs of the

1:22:16

Soryak, the constellations of the Soryak

1:22:19

are not Egyptian. They're

1:22:22

from Babylon. Yeah. But because

1:22:24

this is a late temple and remember

1:22:26

the Greeks conquered

1:22:28

Egypt for 300 years at

1:22:30

the end of the late

1:22:33

Egypt, the

1:22:35

Greeks were influenced by the Babylonians

1:22:38

and they were the ones who

1:22:40

brought the constellations of the Soryak

1:22:44

into Egypt. So in

1:22:46

this crossbreeding

1:22:49

between cultures, the Egyptian and

1:22:51

the Greek culture, one

1:22:53

of the things that the Greeks brought

1:22:56

and the

1:22:59

Persians before, by the way, was

1:23:01

the Soryak, the knowledge of the

1:23:03

constellations of the Soryak. Now because

1:23:05

of the length of the culture

1:23:07

in Egypt that is like

1:23:10

close to 6,000 years, if

1:23:12

you take the official Egyptological

1:23:15

timeline, it's

1:23:20

so long that when

1:23:23

you create the temples and you align them to

1:23:25

stars, because you want to use the temple as

1:23:28

reference points to measure the movement

1:23:30

of the stars, because

1:23:33

the culture goes so long because of the

1:23:35

procession, what happens is

1:23:37

that the stars start to move

1:23:39

and your temple doesn't align with

1:23:41

that star anymore after three or

1:23:43

four hundred years. So

1:23:45

that's how you start to notice

1:23:48

that there is equinoxial procession, because

1:23:51

you start in a

1:23:53

lifetime, you cannot see it because it's too

1:23:55

slow, but in

1:23:58

the lifetime of the culture of Egypt, They

1:24:00

went through three different houses

1:24:03

of the Soyak, basically. Which means that they're

1:24:05

a lot older than we think. They're

1:24:08

probably very, very old culture. Yeah,

1:24:12

but that's absolutely possible,

1:24:14

yes. Yeah. Do

1:24:18

you think that the composition

1:24:21

of the temple with these panels,

1:24:23

with this viewing

1:24:28

of astronomy and aspects

1:24:31

of astrology, make

1:24:34

it a tool

1:24:36

for prediction or prophecy? Whereas

1:24:40

a priest astronomer could

1:24:42

actually look at the

1:24:44

ceiling, look at the sky, and

1:24:46

say, okay, we can look forward to this type

1:24:49

of agricultural... The

1:24:53

sole function of that was

1:24:55

exactly... That's the primordial function

1:24:57

of astronomy and antiquity, was

1:25:00

to be able to predict the seasons,

1:25:02

and in this case, the floating of

1:25:05

the Nile. So all these

1:25:07

monuments is stonehenge. And when you

1:25:09

start to look at the

1:25:11

stars, and you start to align things, measurement

1:25:14

has to come with agriculture.

1:25:17

And agricultural society requires

1:25:20

of measurement of time, because

1:25:23

you have to know the

1:25:25

seasonality and the rhythms of

1:25:27

your crops. So you have to start to measure

1:25:30

things. So measurement is

1:25:32

a prerequisite of agricultural

1:25:35

civilization. And

1:25:37

the way you measure time, the natural

1:25:40

clock, is the regular movement of

1:25:42

the stars. So what's

1:25:44

predictive? The predictive is

1:25:47

watching the planets and the

1:25:49

constellations. And then

1:25:51

as an observer-priest,

1:25:54

you can use the temple as kind of a

1:25:57

calculator? Correct. Because

1:25:59

you are a light... you're aligning your temple

1:26:01

to the stars and you create calendars

1:26:03

where you say, oh, okay, the thing

1:26:06

that looks like a scorpion is showing

1:26:08

up now, hence we are

1:26:10

in September or whatever, right? Now

1:26:13

the most important observation that they had

1:26:15

was the star series, the dog star,

1:26:18

because that star they found

1:26:20

that it happened right before the floating of

1:26:22

the Nile. So that was the

1:26:25

beginning of the of the Egyptian year was

1:26:27

the rising for the first time on the year

1:26:30

of the star

1:26:32

series, the dog star, because

1:26:35

that was the whole thing remember

1:26:37

was about the floating of the Nile.

1:26:40

That was they were obsessed by

1:26:42

that. They had to... Why

1:26:46

are... why

1:26:48

is the paradigm of the current

1:26:50

science so detached from

1:26:52

this type of

1:26:55

science? And when I

1:26:57

say that, here we are talking about predictive

1:27:01

aspects of the temple, encoding,

1:27:04

high functionality, but almost on a

1:27:07

metaphysical level in today's

1:27:09

terms. You

1:27:12

don't hear Egyptologists talking about

1:27:15

this type of thing and it to me

1:27:17

it's such a huge

1:27:19

disconnection. It's almost like they're outside

1:27:22

of the fundamentals

1:27:24

of these people looking in and

1:27:27

kind of guessing at who they were. Where

1:27:30

I hear you're talking more

1:27:32

in more of an indigenous

1:27:35

focal point of these temples.

1:27:39

Right, I think it's a matter of perspective, right? Like

1:27:41

one thing is if you look

1:27:43

at things from the outside in or the

1:27:45

inside out. So if

1:27:48

you go to museums and they have these

1:27:50

dioramas this

1:27:53

side the science is the idea of

1:27:56

you have this observer

1:27:58

that is looking objectively

1:28:01

at society or at

1:28:03

reality from the observer

1:28:06

doesn't intervene in society. So

1:28:12

the anthropologist goes

1:28:15

to the primitives and

1:28:17

sits down with his book and

1:28:19

his western clothes and

1:28:22

takes notes on how these

1:28:24

primitives worship the sun, right?

1:28:26

And you can see

1:28:28

that it's very funny when you

1:28:30

read the Egyptologist from the turn

1:28:32

of the century, is these

1:28:34

Europeans, enlightened Europeans, looking down

1:28:37

at the people with no

1:28:39

clothes, right? It's

1:28:42

very, very, very interesting. Is this looking

1:28:44

down at things? Now, the slap in

1:28:46

their face was that they

1:28:48

saw the pyramids and these monuments and they

1:28:50

were like, Jesus Christ, we cannot build these

1:28:52

things today. Yeah, it's better than any of

1:28:55

the churches that we have or any of

1:28:57

these things. So is this

1:28:59

part of the fascination? Is that right? Like

1:29:01

at the end? But

1:29:04

yeah, I think, like, remember,

1:29:06

this is the product of

1:29:08

colonialism, right? Like Egyptology

1:29:10

is the conception, the conception is

1:29:12

right in the middle of, like,

1:29:16

gee, the

1:29:21

East India Company at the time was

1:29:24

trading in India. The reason

1:29:26

why Napoleon was in Egypt

1:29:29

or went to Egypt, one of the

1:29:32

reasons besides trying to make it the

1:29:34

breadbasket was to cut the

1:29:36

communication route through the Red

1:29:39

Sea of the British

1:29:41

Empire because they were at war, right? So

1:29:45

it's right at the center of colony, right?

1:29:48

So that's the

1:29:51

birth of Egyptology, right? I mean, I think

1:29:55

he's tainted with that because I

1:29:57

just, I mean, your book is

1:29:59

so... Fun

1:30:01

to read because you're explaining esoteric

1:30:03

subject matter and you're talking about

1:30:05

a lost science basically

1:30:07

of combining astrology

1:30:10

astronomy. Engineering

1:30:13

and earth fundamentals and i'm

1:30:15

talking about the gravitation and

1:30:17

things like that and

1:30:19

we read these the these

1:30:21

academic books. They're

1:30:23

just so. Dry

1:30:26

and they

1:30:29

don't seem to want to

1:30:31

combine. The

1:30:33

fundamental fundamental aspects of

1:30:35

these cultures and

1:30:38

the. Their

1:30:40

connection to these subtle

1:30:42

energies that we're talking about you know which is

1:30:44

so much a part of their. Connection

1:30:47

with earth guy you

1:30:49

know understand and the other

1:30:52

thing is we don't have a name

1:30:54

for their science but obviously. Their

1:30:56

their science and

1:30:58

their lifestyle is is the earth

1:31:01

based right is earth centric it's

1:31:03

not detached is like as the

1:31:06

earth and the heavens move so

1:31:08

do we as a biological

1:31:10

beings on the planet earth. Right

1:31:14

absolutely and

1:31:17

but also because this they didn't

1:31:19

have a sea or or antibiotics

1:31:22

and that sucks. Yeah

1:31:26

it would have been tough back then yeah

1:31:29

you might know an aesthetic like how to.

1:31:32

Bite bite a piece of wood to see in

1:31:34

order to have an amputation exactly

1:31:37

exactly this is a

1:31:39

wonderful book again it's called the

1:31:41

temple of time the celestial wisdom

1:31:43

of ancient egypt my guest. Today

1:31:46

has been jose maria barrera.

1:31:51

Not only is it an amazing and

1:31:53

by the way we didn't even talk

1:31:55

about the cameras that you use to take

1:31:57

photographs are just this is an outstanding.

1:32:01

photographic assessment

1:32:03

of Hathor Temple, beautiful camera

1:32:05

work, but your publisher

1:32:10

was not cheap in reproducing this

1:32:12

because this is an expensive book

1:32:14

simply because from start to finish,

1:32:17

they're color photographs. All

1:32:19

right. It's a real beautiful book. And

1:32:22

I want to acknowledge one thing that I haven't

1:32:24

done publicly, but I want to acknowledge the

1:32:27

tremendous work that Inner Traditions did

1:32:29

because the only requirement that I

1:32:32

had with this book was

1:32:34

that I want the

1:32:36

photos to shine, right? I wanted

1:32:38

the quality of the book to

1:32:40

be super because otherwise the book

1:32:42

loses its luster. So

1:32:44

I want to accolade for

1:32:47

Inner Traditions. They did a wonderful

1:32:49

and beautiful work with this. Yeah.

1:32:52

I want to mention to those of you guys listening to

1:32:54

this. We've had editors

1:32:58

from National Geo, National Geographic and

1:33:00

the Smithsonian, we've promoted a number

1:33:02

of books from different authors. This

1:33:05

book by Inner Traditions is an equal,

1:33:07

if not better than a lot of

1:33:10

those books simply because Jose

1:33:13

captures not only the central aspect

1:33:15

of the Temple of Hathor, but

1:33:19

subtle areas, the side

1:33:21

walls, the columns, which

1:33:23

are very, very important. And

1:33:26

it's a really great study. It's

1:33:28

a great book. I want to congratulate you, Jose. Wish

1:33:34

you well. How can people get a

1:33:36

hold of you? What's your website? Give us

1:33:38

your website. Oh, I'm going

1:33:40

to do it, but it's a mouthful. Oh,

1:33:42

it's not just Jose Barrera? It's

1:33:45

Jose Maria Barrera. My full name,

1:33:47

my full Catholic name, 100 multiple

1:33:50

letters and so on. I

1:33:53

think the best way to find me is

1:33:57

through Amazon. So if you look

1:33:59

for Dendera. Temple of Time. Okay,

1:34:01

you're gonna find my name and if

1:34:03

you look, you put all my name

1:34:05

together Jose Maria varera.com. You

1:34:07

can go there. And by the way,

1:34:09

there I have the ceiling, the reconstruction

1:34:11

of the entire city, the ceiling in

1:34:14

one image, just like Google Maps, where you

1:34:16

can zoom in and you can see the

1:34:18

details. Oh, so you use a special 360

1:34:21

camera lens and cover

1:34:24

the whole you swept the whole? No,

1:34:26

no, I did it manually. I took 5000

1:34:28

photos of the ceiling and manually. Oh my

1:34:30

god. It took me three months to reconstruct the

1:34:32

whole ceiling in one image. So

1:34:35

you can zoom in and see a little details

1:34:37

and zoom out. You got the little cracks on

1:34:39

every god. Wow. Amazing. This

1:34:42

book just came out. We

1:34:45

were talking about this before Jose said it came out in

1:34:48

January, but it's I'm showing that the pub date

1:34:50

is February. It's

1:34:52

available on Amazon and

1:34:54

wherever you get your

1:34:56

books. It's a bigger book

1:34:59

they call it coffee table because

1:35:01

they the pages are beautiful reproductions

1:35:04

of the ceiling. Do you

1:35:07

have a website? I mean, not a website, but

1:35:09

do you have a YouTube channel where you're talking

1:35:12

about any of this? Or where else can people

1:35:14

hear hear from you? You have a lecture circuit?

1:35:17

Yes, yes. It's on

1:35:19

my website. If you go there, there is a link

1:35:21

there to the okay. Fantastic.

1:35:24

Jose. Wonderful work.

1:35:27

Thank you for joining me. I appreciate the

1:35:29

fact that you're open and

1:35:31

you're very expressive. And I think

1:35:33

you understand the various

1:35:36

dimensions of these people and what

1:35:39

they reproduce reproduced in this temple.

1:35:41

So hey,

1:35:44

congratulations on on this

1:35:46

book. And thank

1:35:49

you for joining me. Cleve.

1:35:51

Namaste. And thank you for your kind

1:35:53

words. And it was a pleasure. Thank

1:35:59

you. I didn't

1:36:01

mention that this book has been out now for

1:36:03

a few weeks and it's

1:36:05

available on Amazon and other

1:36:07

locations. If you get

1:36:09

it on Amazon now, I think

1:36:11

they're shaving a few bucks off.

1:36:14

It's a coffee table book. They're

1:36:16

usually expensive. This book's around 60,

1:36:19

but I think you can get it for less than that if

1:36:21

you look around. I think you can get it for like 50 or

1:36:24

less. It's pretty

1:36:26

large and it is beautifully

1:36:28

rendered. The photographs

1:36:31

are beautiful and Jose's

1:36:33

description of the astrological

1:36:36

calendar and

1:36:38

mathematics and the other subjects we have

1:36:40

just presented are all in that book.

1:36:44

Quick read, nothing extensive, but

1:36:46

again, the photographs are beautiful and really

1:36:49

is a good value. Real

1:36:51

fun to have him on the program. I have to

1:36:54

have, and I was reminded of this in our conversation,

1:36:56

I have to have somebody who

1:36:59

has done some serious

1:37:02

energy scanning. In other words, something

1:37:04

like John Burke did at Tikal,

1:37:07

the Mayan city in

1:37:09

Guatemala. I

1:37:12

think he was at Chichen Itza. They

1:37:15

use very special scanning equipment and they

1:37:17

can find the

1:37:19

various vortex or geomagnetic

1:37:21

energy fields that

1:37:24

are bubbling up from the

1:37:26

ground and which permeate

1:37:28

these temples and

1:37:30

pyramids. This is what

1:37:32

makes John Burke's book so

1:37:34

important is that he actually

1:37:36

measures the emissions and

1:37:40

perhaps describes how the Maya

1:37:43

use that energy. We

1:37:45

don't really know, except

1:37:48

when you read John Anthony West's book,

1:37:51

Dlubic, his mentor's

1:37:54

book on pyramid

1:37:57

construction and pyramid building design.

1:38:00

We don't know exactly

1:38:02

if they are seasonal

1:38:04

vibration, that you,

1:38:06

this is when the pharaohs and the queens

1:38:08

would go and be bathed in this energy,

1:38:12

or if it's constant like the Khufu Pyramid,

1:38:14

and we've been in there many times. And

1:38:17

by the way, both half are multiple

1:38:20

other temples and Khufu Pyramid is part

1:38:22

of the Grand

1:38:24

Egyptian tour coming

1:38:26

up April 28th through May 9th,

1:38:30

and we don't have a few spaces left. Check that

1:38:32

out, earthancients.com/tours. But

1:38:36

we don't know, it's

1:38:38

hard to measure, we're

1:38:40

not wired to understand

1:38:42

geomagnetic energy and to

1:38:45

utilize it. We might think about it, we

1:38:47

might, as Jose

1:38:49

eloquently described, feel

1:38:52

it during lunar cycles. I

1:38:55

think that astrology plays

1:38:57

a greater role than we suspect.

1:39:01

And when these tools come about

1:39:03

that can measure human

1:39:06

physiology and its connection

1:39:08

to geomagnetic and other

1:39:10

earth-toleric energy fields, we'll

1:39:13

pay more attention to it. I

1:39:15

mean, really, to know that there

1:39:17

are spots in

1:39:20

different parts of the world, and

1:39:22

also at these ancient and

1:39:24

some places sacred sites, people

1:39:27

will go there in droves just to be

1:39:29

in it. So

1:39:32

this is important. So anyhow,

1:39:35

good to have Jose on the program, and

1:39:38

God, I'd love Hathor Temple. I

1:39:40

was serious too. When

1:39:42

you go there, it's so

1:39:44

overwhelming. What they have done is they've

1:39:47

cleaned the ceiling, they've cleaned the

1:39:49

columns, and the

1:39:52

original color is exposed to

1:39:54

everybody who can see it.

1:39:58

It's beautiful. It's shades of blue. By

1:40:01

the way, I will be posting photographs

1:40:03

on the Facebook page. Go to Facebook, go to

1:40:05

Earth Ancients, go to the group or the international

1:40:08

page. And I have some

1:40:10

ceiling photographs. I have a page from Jose's

1:40:14

book where he has

1:40:16

basically taken hundreds of photographs and

1:40:19

reproduced them so that you can

1:40:21

zero in on certain parts of it and

1:40:24

see the details. It's just, it's

1:40:26

really a classic beauty. It

1:40:29

really is Hathor Temple. So

1:40:31

much we didn't get into in this talk

1:40:33

too. What about the crypts?

1:40:36

Now Eric Von Donegan, and this

1:40:38

is 30 years ago, went

1:40:40

down into one of the crypts and found

1:40:42

what he called the Dendera lamp. There's

1:40:45

been a lot of people that say he's

1:40:47

kind of nutty about that. It's not true,

1:40:49

but he claims that the dynastic

1:40:52

Egyptians had light bulbs.

1:40:55

And there's two, what looks like large

1:40:58

light bulbs or some form of technology

1:41:01

in this one crypt. Since

1:41:03

that's been opened, there's three or

1:41:05

possibly four crypts that

1:41:07

we visit every year and they're under

1:41:10

the surface of the floor. And

1:41:13

Jose was nice about it, but I

1:41:15

have to tell you that the Egyptian

1:41:17

authorities, the antiquities department is extremely frustrating

1:41:20

for those of you like myself who

1:41:22

are seekers of knowledge, seekers

1:41:24

of the information that

1:41:27

is embedded in these places

1:41:30

and why they don't use

1:41:32

ground penetrating radar, why we

1:41:34

don't use site

1:41:36

scan equipment as well as

1:41:38

LIDAR is just a

1:41:41

huge question that no one seems to be answering. And

1:41:45

it really brings up suspicion

1:41:48

and question about

1:41:50

why we can't dig in further.

1:41:52

I mean, Jose knows most people

1:41:54

who visit Hawthorne know that it

1:41:56

sits on top of a much

1:41:59

older perhaps

1:42:01

ancient temple that we'll

1:42:03

never see in this lifetime because

1:42:05

they are hesitant the

1:42:07

authorities are hesitant to to

1:42:10

scan now there's also the issue with finance

1:42:12

with money and this is a third world

1:42:14

country and there they have

1:42:16

a lot of impoverished people so that's that

1:42:18

should be number one on their list but

1:42:21

for those of us seeking I pay an extra 50 bucks

1:42:24

to go down a crib to go down a shaft

1:42:26

to see an earlier temple don't

1:42:30

get me started on Egypt it's a

1:42:33

beautiful wonderful place I love the people

1:42:35

but governance is not their strong

1:42:37

suit okay anyhow

1:42:42

by the way just as a side

1:42:44

note earth ancients goes

1:42:47

to a lot of these places and

1:42:50

we have some of the guests on the show

1:42:52

as hosts our grande

1:42:54

Egyptian tour for this year is

1:42:57

April 28th through May 9th

1:42:59

and our host

1:43:01

is Mohammed Embraheim we'll

1:43:04

meet everybody meets in Cairo and

1:43:06

from there on we are escorted

1:43:10

through basically a

1:43:12

private tour it's a VIP level tour

1:43:15

for a beer budget so believe me

1:43:17

it's half the price of what

1:43:19

these typical tours are without

1:43:22

the crowds in a private

1:43:24

air-conditioned lovely bus and

1:43:26

it is just fabulous it's just so

1:43:29

so amazing for more information on that

1:43:31

tour go to earth ancients.com forward

1:43:34

slash tours yeah

1:43:37

check it out I it's coming up

1:43:39

I'm really excited about it so that's

1:43:41

why I love it we also are

1:43:43

doing turkey that's go back to me

1:43:45

tepi Darren Kuru koba

1:43:47

kapodoshia on and

1:43:49

on and on that's a 12-day

1:43:51

tour that is August 14th to

1:43:54

the 24th and then we finished

1:43:56

the year in Mexico

1:43:58

in the Yucatan Peninsula where some of

1:44:00

the world's most beautiful cities are of

1:44:03

the ancient Maya. That's going to be November 8th through

1:44:06

17th. For

1:44:08

more information, earthancients.com forward

1:44:12

slash tours. We

1:44:15

have a blast. There's small tours, 2025. If

1:44:19

it's more than 25, it's fairly rare. And

1:44:23

you make friends, you have fun.

1:44:25

And I have a blast with

1:44:27

everybody and they're so rewarding. And

1:44:29

very sacred too. We do intention

1:44:33

meditation so you could bring in information

1:44:35

on your health, on

1:44:37

your future, on relationships, whatever,

1:44:39

or just wanting to know more.

1:44:41

I mean, I've been to some of these temples and all of

1:44:44

a sudden intention. And all of a sudden

1:44:47

next morning, there's a download and I'm going, Oh

1:44:49

my God, really? So

1:44:53

something to consider. earthancients.com/tours.

1:45:00

Hey, it costs a great deal of

1:45:02

money to put these podcasts on and

1:45:06

your subscription on Patreon can really,

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1:45:31

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1:45:33

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1:45:36

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That's patreon.com

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years of experience, 10 years in going,

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our 10th year anniversary

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this April, we've had the

1:46:12

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ancients. I want

1:46:32

to thank the following people for supporting

1:46:34

us at the

1:46:36

end of January into February. I

1:46:39

want to thank Margo

1:46:41

Cortez, let's see, Tucker, Martina,

1:46:45

Brumwell, Tim Edwards,

1:46:48

Somer Smith, Jason

1:46:51

Matheson, Dave

1:46:54

Barter, Tom Meredith,

1:46:57

and Tom Mazzolo. You

1:47:00

guys rock. And I really

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appreciate your help. Thank you very much. To

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become a subscriber, go

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to patreon.com/Earth ancients. All

1:47:12

right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guests today.

1:47:15

Jose Maria Barrera

1:47:18

coming to us from Germany. I think he was in

1:47:21

Berlin. And

1:47:23

as always, the team of Gail Tor, Mark

1:47:26

Foster, and everyone who makes this thing

1:47:28

happen. Thank you. You

1:47:30

guys rock. All right,

1:47:32

take care, be well, And we'll talk

1:47:35

to you next time.