0:08

Well, this is dead. Stuff's alive. And I'm Ed

0:10

Setzer. I'm the dean of the Talbot School of Theology

0:13

at Biola University. And of course,

0:15

every Saturday at this time, the most

0:17

important role I have is to be your host and looking forward

0:19

to our conversation today.

0:21

You know, we have some always interesting,

0:23

I think, conversations, fascinating conversations. Last

0:26

week we had Sean McDowell and John Merritt

0:28

on, and we talked to them about the construction

0:30

and how to respond to that.

0:32

And and next week we're going to continue

0:35

these just to kind of a good tradition of years now

0:37

having conversations about cultural moments.

0:39

One of the things I think that that maybe

0:41

sometimes we don't talk about enough is

0:43

the issue of, well, prayer and praying

0:46

and pastors and more. So this is actually

0:48

not a not a show geared towards,

0:51

um, towards pastors, but we're

0:53

going to talk about pastors, which is kind of interesting.

0:55

I have a podcast called the Stetson Church

0:57

Leaders Podcast, which obviously is geared

0:59

towards pastors. It's church leaders and pastors,

1:02

and I've had Tom on there. My guest

1:04

today is Tom Rayner. I've had Tom on there, but I thought

1:06

it would be helpful for us to talk about, well,

1:08

the topic at hand to our

1:10

broad Christian audience as well. Let me tell you about my guest.

1:12

Tom Rayner is the founder and CEO of

1:14

Church Answers. It's an online community

1:16

of resource and resource for church leaders.

1:19

So again, just like I mentioned in the podcast, Tom

1:21

is very much serving pastors and church leaders.

1:24

But what I found interesting is

1:26

just having watched Tom's ministry

1:28

for, gosh, I worked for Tom for

1:30

for nine years and then,

1:32

you know, watched it for longer than that. In

1:34

the last few years, he's really been a voice

1:37

to church members. I'll explain more

1:39

about that in a second, but let me tell you more about his

1:41

his bio and his street cred.

1:43

Prior to founding Church Answers, he was the president

1:45

and CEO of LifeWay Christian Resources.

1:48

That's where we work together for about a decade.

1:50

Um, he also served at Southern

1:52

Seminary for 12 years. He was the founding dean

1:55

of the Billy Graham School of Missions and

1:57

Evangelism. So you can

1:59

already hear and see he's got a passion for growing

2:01

churches, helping pastors, helping leaders. That's

2:03

all over at church answers. He's the author

2:06

of more than two dozen books, including the

2:08

book we're going to talk about today. We actually have some copies

2:10

of it to Give Away called When

2:12

People Pray and Invitation

2:14

to Intercede for Your Pastor and

2:16

Revive Your Church. Now, before

2:18

we get to some of the the book topics in particular,

2:21

Tom, I as I mentioned a minute ago and

2:23

I mentioned to you before we came on the air, it's

2:26

sort of been this, I don't know, it's not a niche

2:28

because it's like, I mean, you know, I'm

2:30

a church member, sold over a million copies.

2:32

So but it's kind of this space

2:34

that you have been in that I

2:37

didn't see coming. You know, I think we were working together at LifeWay

2:39

when you started writing in this

2:41

space, and you're sort of like

2:43

writing to church members as you sort of became

2:46

one. And we could talk a little bit about your son, the church

2:48

you go to. Um, but you, in

2:50

becoming a church member, you kind of like, are

2:52

helping Christians in

2:54

the pews or in 2024, in the

2:56

seats to pray for their pastor,

2:59

in this case, to to be a church member and lots

3:01

of other things like that. So welcome, Tom Rader. So

3:03

tell us a little bit how you got into that space.

3:06

Well, I can guarantee you thanks for having me on. I

3:08

guarantee you I didn't get in with any smarts of my

3:10

own. I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

3:12

So how I got into this was

3:14

basically a blog post that was an accident.

3:17

And it we refer

3:19

to blog posts quite often, or articles,

3:21

and if we don't think they're going to do well, we call it

3:23

a throwaway. We we know that we

3:25

have a deadline to meet. And so we

3:27

turn around and get this done. Well, I was doing three

3:30

a week at the time, and my team

3:32

was waiting patiently for the one that was

3:34

due the next day. I told them it'd probably

3:36

be about 5 or 6 in the morning, please be looking

3:38

for it and I

3:41

couldn't think of a thing to say. So

3:43

what did I do? I said, uh, I'm

3:46

just going to write a quick blog post, and I'm talking

3:48

about 487 words, if I recall

3:50

correctly. Maybe I'm off 1 or 2 words.

3:52

And I wrote this very short blog

3:55

post called I remember,

3:58

and I've just

4:00

kind of forgot about it. Well, our

4:02

mutual friend Jonathan Howe, who's working with both of

4:04

us, call me at about 9:00. He said,

4:06

are you seeing this? I said, Jonathan defined this.

4:08

I don't know what you're talking about. He

4:11

said, this thing is blowing up. And

4:13

what he meant by that was

4:15

we were well over a million views

4:18

in very short time.

4:20

And I'm thinking, what has happened? And

4:22

so the thesis behind this was

4:24

very simple. What does it

4:26

mean to be a church

4:28

member now? And I really

4:30

can't remember why I wrote it, other

4:32

than the fact that I had to do a blog post real quickly.

4:35

So if I can give you some grand strategy

4:37

and it says Rainer really

4:39

has it all together, he had this strategy

4:42

and he wrote this blog post, and now

4:44

he's in this niche somewhat talking

4:46

to church members about church leaders,

4:48

pastors specifically. I wish

4:50

I could claim that, but I can't now.

4:52

It's just God that that allowed me to write

4:55

that that then the the

4:57

article blog post, which soon became

4:59

a very short book. And by the way, our

5:02

my son, who is an admirer of yours

5:04

and his work for you, Jess Rainer, I was

5:06

with. Him last night. He sends his best.

5:08

He still talks about how you

5:10

gave him. He gave him a, uh,

5:13

break and opportunity and, uh,

5:15

ministry. Uh, Jess was the

5:17

one who said, dad, if you're going to write this book

5:19

or write a short book because

5:21

church members don't need something

5:24

that is 70 or

5:26

80,000 words, he said, try to keep it under 20,000.

5:28

And if you know that's a very short book, I think it

5:30

ended up being 12 to 14,000. And

5:33

so thus was born I am a church

5:35

member, and yes, it did

5:37

sell over me. And in fact it's about to

5:39

cross the 2 million threshold. No

5:41

way.

5:42

Wow. That's amazing. That's crazy.

5:44

Still going? It is. It is still

5:46

going. And it

5:48

hit the right kind of nerve

5:50

about what it really means

5:52

to be a part of the local church. And I was

5:55

surprised that no one had articulated that

5:57

in such a way that the vast

5:59

majority of church members had not grasp

6:01

it to this point. A lot of them had, but

6:04

many had not. And thus I'm

6:06

in a niche that has no strategy, no

6:09

wisdom, just a lot of accidents

6:11

that happened. Well, okay, is God, uh,

6:13

but in the sovereignty I've got, I just I

6:15

watched it happen. So that's how I got in

6:18

that nature originally. And as you well

6:20

know, I've begun to do more

6:22

books and more articles talking to

6:24

church members about church leaders, specifically

6:26

pastors. A long answer

6:28

to a short question, a lot more

6:30

than you wanted to hear.

6:32

No, no, I think it's helpful. I think it's I didn't even know some of

6:34

that. So I think it is it is helpful. And of course, Tom

6:36

has written lots of other books. Uh, I

6:38

actually broadcast my studio is here at

6:40

Mariner's Church in Southern California,

6:42

and the pastor here is Eric Geiger and Tom Rayner,

6:45

and Eric wrote a book together called Simple Church that

6:47

became the best selling church leadership

6:49

book since Purpose Driven Church. And a lot

6:51

of just impacted a lot of people. Tom's

6:53

written, well, lots of books. Today we're going to specifically

6:55

talk about the book, kind of in that I guess

6:57

call it a niche. Is Tom's writing for

7:00

for you? The vast majority of our listeners,

7:02

he's writing for church members,

7:04

church engage people about,

7:06

well, how to engage readers. And

7:08

specifically in this case, the title

7:10

of the book is When People Pray An

7:12

Invitation to intercede for your pastor

7:15

and Revive Your Church. I want to open

7:17

up the phone lines as well. Our phone number, if you want

7:19

to call is (877) 548-3675.

7:23

Again, that's (877) 548-3675.

7:28

I'd love to hear about maybe ways you're you're

7:30

praying for your pastor. Uh, ways

7:32

that your, uh, been, you know, maybe making

7:34

that strategic or more we're,

7:36

you know, this moody radio is

7:38

the network that we're on and we have partners and affiliates,

7:41

you know, over 200 outlets across the country.

7:43

And we're super thankful for the different partners and

7:45

affiliates we have. Uh, but Moody Radio, of course,

7:47

is, um, just down the road from Moody

7:49

Church. And I like to say to people

7:51

that I love the fact that there's a moody radio

7:54

is, is is a ministry of Moody Bible Institute, Moody

7:56

Church. And again, they're not they're actually separate institutions.

7:58

I was the interim pastor there at Moody Church for

8:01

a few years. But but I love the fact

8:03

that that there's a church connection that's

8:05

there. Tom and I are people who love the church

8:07

and so we also love the

8:10

church's leaders as well. So.

8:12

So again, if you want to call in, talk to us about maybe

8:14

ways you're praying or questions you have,

8:16

we're actually going to give away five copies of the book,

8:18

not to people who call and say, I'd like a copy

8:20

of the book, but, you know, with really brilliant and insightful

8:23

questions like, you always bring again, (877) 548-3675

8:28

again (877) 548-3675.

8:31

Okay. So you talked a little bit about the

8:33

I am a church member just from I mean

8:35

just sort of goes all over the place. But

8:38

so tell us a little bit then, what prompted you

8:40

to write a book about people praying for their pastors?

8:42

Because I don't know if there's a niche within a niche

8:44

that's kind of a niche niche. Tell us about that.

8:48

Uh, it's another story editor. Um, I

8:50

pastored four churches before I went to be dean

8:52

at the Billy Graham School, at Southern Seminary,

8:54

where you and I served alongside each other,

8:56

just like you indicated at LifeWay as well.

8:59

And my last church was in Birmingham,

9:02

and I was I don't know what

9:04

it was maybe burned out does not describe

9:06

it, but I was certainly discouraged.

9:09

Uh, had a number of critics.

9:11

I had a I felt like my

9:13

ministry was unraveling,

9:15

even though there had been no outwardly sign

9:17

of it. And I did something that probably

9:20

wasn't the wisest thing to do. I

9:23

was preaching a message. And

9:25

before I ended the message, I got

9:27

as transparent as

9:30

I think I've ever been in the pulpit, probably

9:32

more than I should have been. And I

9:34

said to the people, and I want, I want

9:37

your audience to hear this, because

9:40

this is where many pastors are. And

9:42

I just I want all of you church member

9:44

Christians to just hear what

9:46

happened to me that put me on the path

9:49

where I am today. So I

9:51

was I was preaching and I

9:53

just stopped the sermon and

9:56

I spoke directly to the people

9:58

and I said, hey, I

10:00

love you folks. I said, maybe y'all

10:03

don't all love me. I think I remember

10:05

saying that. And I said, but

10:07

I love you folks, and I'm

10:09

just. I'm at my I'm unraveling

10:12

right now. I'm just I don't know what

10:14

it is, but can I ask

10:16

you to pray for me? That

10:18

is all I ask. And I said, if you will,

10:21

would you just let me know? That's all.

10:24

That's all. Tuesday came.

10:26

Francis Mason came to my office. One of the

10:28

senior adults that, uh, loves

10:30

me dearly. And I loved her dearly. She's with the Lord

10:32

now. And she said, pastor, I

10:35

want to tell you that I took you up on that challenge

10:37

to pray for you. Francis.

10:39

I'm so grateful. Thank you. Thank

10:41

you for that, she said. I hope you don't

10:43

mind that I ask a few others, and

10:45

we're going to pray for you daily at noon,

10:47

wherever we are. For 30s 60s

10:50

every day. That's amazing. Thank

10:52

you, Francis, she said. I hope you don't mind.

10:54

Here's a list of over 100 people who've

10:56

committed to do that. Wow,

11:00

that was transformational in my ministry. That was

11:02

transformational in my life. That was

11:04

transformational in my attitude when

11:06

I wrote When the People Pray, which was many

11:09

years later, I

11:11

reflect back to one

11:13

church member who loved her

11:15

church so much the Bride of Christ,

11:17

who loved her church so much that

11:20

she was willing to pray for the servant

11:22

leader, called the pastor because

11:24

she knows she knew that if the pastor

11:26

was not healthy emotionally,

11:29

physically, spiritually, that

11:31

the church could not be the healthiest

11:33

church it should be. And so

11:35

it took many years before I finally

11:38

wrote this book. It has been in my heart

11:40

and on my mind for some time, but it's a message

11:42

to church members. Pray

11:45

for your pastor. It's a 30 day guide.

11:47

This is a basic and it goes

11:49

over 30 things that, uh, uh, pastors

11:52

are dealing with on a daily basis.

11:55

It it really has two purposes

11:57

to it. And the first purpose is to get

11:59

church members interceding for the pastor,

12:02

for sure. But there is

12:04

another purpose to it, and that's for

12:06

church members to have an awareness of

12:09

what their pastors do, confront

12:12

and deal with on a daily basis.

12:14

And I really believe, and I love

12:16

the way that Tyndale added the subtitle,

12:18

An Invitation to Intercede for Your Pastor and

12:21

Revive Your Church. I really

12:23

believe that one of the paths to revival

12:25

is intercession for the pastor leader.

12:28

And essentially, you know, biblically,

12:30

you're you're you're holding up the arm of

12:33

Moses while the battle is being

12:35

fought. The arms, I should say each

12:37

arm. And so it took me a long time

12:39

to get to this point where I wrote When the

12:41

People Pray. I'm grateful to Tyndale, who picked

12:43

up on the vision and was willing to

12:45

go with it. But again, a long

12:48

story to a brief question.

12:51

No, but it's good. I want to I want to talk

12:53

more about this to. We can take this to pause for just a moment. We're

12:55

going to give folks the opportunity to call in with

12:57

their questions. Whereas see some folks coming in

12:59

(877) 548-3675.

13:03

Again, questions maybe about church, maybe about your

13:05

journey. Tom's an expert on a lot of topics. You can go

13:07

to headsets or live.com. We got a link to all

13:09

of his books there as well. Your

13:12

phone number to call is (877) 548-3675.

13:16

Last time (877) 548-3675.

13:20

You're listening to get stats are live on.

13:22

Moody Radio Partners.

13:35

Hey, we're back at Setzer Live here on

13:37

Moody Radio Partners and Affiliates and have been with us

13:39

as our guest today. Tom Reiner I have

13:41

a fun fact about Tom Rayner. Tom Rayner

13:43

is the person I am most frequently

13:47

accused of being. Um, people

13:49

come up to me and thank me for books that Tom

13:51

Rayner wrote all the time. So they're like, man,

13:53

I really enjoyed you. When you wrote autopsy, it was

13:55

East Church. Tom and I wrote a book together,

13:57

so that's probably why. But

13:59

it's just it's literally like, I mean, I

14:01

get thanked more for Tom Rayner books than probably my own

14:03

books. And then what?

14:05

What what's so fun about it is that I say,

14:07

well, that's Tom Rayner. And they say Tom Rayner.

14:10

Is that Tom Rayner? Because Tom's oh

14:12

my gosh. Oh I'm so in my life

14:14

is is his first being thought I am Tom

14:16

Rayner and then correcting people that it's not Tom

14:19

Rainier but but it is funny because

14:21

we've written some books together and and

14:23

Tom and I served together for a while, so I'm

14:25

never offended by that comparison.

14:27

We both wrote in the and right in the same

14:29

space. Sometimes the book we're talking about today

14:32

is when people pray an invitation

14:34

to intercede to your pastor and revive your

14:36

church. And I sort of I keep saying it's I mean, it is

14:38

a book. It's it's Tyndale momentum is

14:40

republished it, but it's kind of like it's

14:43

a book and it's a journey. It's a 30 day journey.

14:45

So it's not just I

14:47

guess I think a lot of people might hear, you should pray for your pastor

14:49

and like, do I really need a whole book about that? Is that like, in

14:51

that like a tweet? But and,

14:53

you know, a lot of times a book should be an article and article should

14:55

be a tweet. But but this is a

14:57

whole it's a whole thing designed

15:00

to help people. We're going to talk about that. But I also want

15:02

to remind you that we're taking your calls

15:04

for Tom Rayner. And our phone number here

15:06

is (877) 548-3675.

15:10

Okay. So if you don't mind tell us about

15:12

a little bit about the book itself

15:14

because it's not just, you know, let's say ten

15:16

chapters on why you pray for your pastor. Because that would take one

15:18

chapter. So how did you kind of build it out

15:20

into this? It's a resource, really.

15:23

It's a 30 day book. There are different

15:26

types of 30 day books, obviously, on the market.

15:28

And in each of the 30 days, I challenge

15:30

the church member to pray specifically

15:33

about an area for the pastor. They're

15:35

not always problems. They're not always

15:37

negative issues. Some of them are, some

15:39

of them are positive. But

15:41

it's just a reminder. It's it's a double. It's a

15:43

double edged sword. In many ways. It's a

15:45

reminder, the power of prayer, that when our

15:47

church members are praying that the

15:49

church is indeed more powerful

15:52

because we our

15:54

our battle is in the spiritual realm.

15:56

And it's also this

15:58

day by day reminder of

16:00

what pastors do and

16:02

go through and face and confront.

16:05

And so every, every day is

16:07

a one word like, uh,

16:09

comparisons day, day

16:12

25. Many church members

16:14

may not be aware that

16:16

pastors can often struggle

16:18

with being compared to other pastors and other churches,

16:21

especially in the days of podcast.

16:24

And before that, it was radio pastors.

16:26

And there's there's people

16:29

will come up to a pastor afterwards

16:31

and they will. This is what happens today.

16:34

And after our pastor has preached a sermon

16:36

afterwards, they'll come up to him and they will say,

16:38

you know, pastor, that was a good message.

16:40

Have you heard, Alastair? Big sermon on that. His is

16:42

really good. I mean, that is

16:45

a that is a really a backhanded compliment

16:47

if not a criticism. And so

16:49

that's just one example,

16:51

one example in the book

16:53

just to remember how to pray for pastors.

16:55

There's a lot of good things in there. But

16:58

my heart, my my heart gets

17:00

overwhelmed for pastors at times.

17:03

On a positive note and on a negative note

17:05

as well. And and

17:07

at Church Answers, we have different

17:09

levels of community. One level

17:11

of community is just those who connect with it somehow

17:13

or some way. There are 350,000

17:16

to 375,000 churches

17:18

in the US, and about a quarter of a million of them connect

17:20

with us at church. Answers in some way

17:22

or another, in the course of a year. Many

17:25

of those are are pastors. And then we

17:27

have a very, very tight,

17:29

uh, community where pastors interact

17:31

with each other and they they ask

17:33

questions and we respond. So

17:36

this book has come out of

17:38

my love for pastors, my experience

17:41

with pastors, and what I'm doing

17:43

currently with pastors. And

17:45

by the way, it doesn't hurt that I have three

17:47

pastor sons, and that influences

17:49

me a lot. And my wife, Nellie Jo,

17:52

reminds me that

17:54

as the father is the best preacher goes,

17:56

I came in fourth. And I

17:58

think it's just I think it's a

18:00

distant fourth. And I would affirm that

18:02

as well. But I wrote the book

18:05

so that you could go 30 days. Now, let

18:07

me give you one example. I received an email

18:09

from an elder group in a church. I think

18:11

there were 11 of the elders,

18:13

if I recall, and they're all going

18:15

through the book when the people pray. And what

18:17

I love about it is it's helping

18:20

revive the church. I think God is using

18:22

their prayers and they would say so, but

18:24

they're saying it's personally reviving them to

18:26

intercede for someone who's

18:28

been called of God to be in this role.

18:31

So 30 days.

18:33

A group can go through it. A

18:36

small group, a Sunday school class,

18:38

a leadership group are the whole church

18:40

can go through it. So it's it's

18:42

something that I'm just be beseeching

18:44

is an old King James word that I'm

18:47

imploring church members

18:49

to do this, to think about

18:51

going through this 30 day journey to pray

18:53

for their pastor.

18:55

Fascinating. Okay, good. And again we're taking your

18:57

calls about this. We're going to go to calls in just a minute. Again

18:59

(877) 548-3675.

19:04

And I guess, you know, part of the 30

19:06

days. So we're going to pray for 30 days, which the way it's structured,

19:08

I think is helpful to give us

19:10

the tools to do that because it's like

19:13

I want to pray for my pastor every day, but

19:15

but, you know, having some structure, what to pray

19:17

for and more. It's also worth noting that it doesn't

19:20

end with, okay, now you can stop praying for your pastor.

19:22

We want to pray for our pastors regularly. I

19:24

pray for my pastor, Eric Guyger. We

19:26

want to pray for our pastors regularly. But so

19:28

what would be the value of a 30

19:30

day kind of journey to do that, that,

19:32

that? Then do we just end it? How do we continue

19:35

it? What's the value of it shaping the way

19:37

we pray beyond 30 days?

19:39

I would pray that it would be

19:41

a culture changing and culture

19:43

shaping book, in the sense

19:45

that after these 30

19:48

days and as you said, very well,

19:50

uh, it should not be over. But after

19:53

these 30 days, what do we have? We have an awareness,

19:55

greater awareness of pastors and in

19:57

their lives and their missions and their families

19:59

and so on. And then secondly,

20:01

we have been praying for them daily. And so

20:04

we have an idea that we can do this, this

20:06

this is not a long exercise for church

20:08

members. Most church members could read one

20:10

day and have have we

20:13

even put the prayer in there if they if they want to

20:15

make that a prayer, their heart and they

20:17

can do this in ten minutes, five

20:19

minutes, ten minutes are very brief. And

20:21

so they're called the culture is changed

20:24

toward prayer and toward a

20:26

greater awareness there. There are three.

20:28

There are two main things in churches today

20:30

that we believe we at church

20:33

answers and others believe. And I think you would

20:35

be among those Ed that

20:37

are lacking in churches

20:39

to major areas, evangelism

20:41

and prayer. And it's not

20:44

as much a program as it is. We

20:46

need to change our hearts and our minds. That's a culture

20:48

shift. So when it's all said and done,

20:50

my prayer is that

20:53

church members will have a whole different

20:55

perspective that will engender

20:57

more prayer within the church.

21:00

Okay, good. All right, let's take some calls. Let's go first

21:03

to Debbie in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

21:05

Debbie, you're live on the air with your question, your comment. Go right

21:07

ahead. Hi,

21:10

Debbie. Are you there? If you could jump right in. Just. Yeah, just

21:12

go right in here, okay?

21:14

Okay. Um, thank you

21:16

so much for taking my call. My

21:18

basic question. Uh, we have

21:21

a wonderful praying pastor,

21:23

and we have actually compared

21:26

our praying to him from holding

21:28

up his arms. What he is

21:30

facing right now is what we're all facing.

21:32

And that is a church that is a denomination

21:34

that is splitting down the middle. And

21:39

that's a really hard place for him to be. Um,

21:42

what we are realizing,

21:45

and this is something uh, I've

21:48

been personally convicted about, is

21:50

that I don't love

21:53

the church the way Jesus does, because

21:55

I find myself getting frustrated and

21:58

wanting all the right answers. And,

22:01

um, the conviction really

22:03

keeps coming. Love the church. Like I love the church.

22:05

And that is helping me to choose

22:08

an issue that has definitely got

22:10

sides which side to be on. How

22:13

can a church? This is my question how

22:15

in praying for our pastor, which

22:18

is also praying for our church which he loves,

22:22

how we might show the world

22:24

how to disagree. Our

22:26

culture disagrees very badly,

22:29

but the church should

22:32

show the world how to disagree,

22:34

even over major things that are going

22:36

to have strong conviction

22:39

on two sides. How do we show the

22:41

world how to disagree?

22:43

Good, good, good. Debbie, if you'll hold on line two, I want to give

22:45

you a copy of, uh, of Tom's book.

22:47

It's it's when people pray an invitation to intercede

22:50

to your pastor. Tom will answer. And

22:52

then. And then we'll come on and give you a copy. Tom.

22:54

Good.

22:55

Uh, Debbie, first of all, let me simply say

22:58

I thank God for you. I thank God

23:00

for your heart, for the local church.

23:02

I thank God for your heart, for your pastor

23:04

in the in the few moments that I heard you speak,

23:06

just then, I heard someone whose

23:09

heart is breaking for what you're seeing, which

23:11

indicates you have a love for your pastor

23:13

and a love for your church. And

23:15

while I don't know your specific situation,

23:17

I will say this. And I will just I will say

23:19

it specifically. Uh, we

23:21

are actually dealing with a lot of this

23:23

issue, uh, within the global Methodist

23:25

and United Methodist issue that has taken

23:27

place where a denomination is

23:30

becoming two denominations. And so

23:32

while I don't know if that is your situation

23:34

or just simply say it is, it is it is

23:36

very common, especially in

23:38

the in American churches today.

23:40

So what do you do? What do you do in the

23:42

midst of all of this? One of the things you do

23:44

is just what you are doing.

23:47

You keep your eyes focused on Christ. You

23:49

keep praying. You show the you

23:51

show the church as well as the world

23:54

that circumstances are not going

23:56

to change your faith. Circumstances are not going

23:58

to change your love for your local church

24:00

or your pastor. Secondly,

24:03

become outwardly focused.

24:05

Now what do I mean by that? You may already be there, Debbie,

24:08

so don't let me presume anything.

24:10

The more you reach and the more you

24:12

serve people within your community,

24:14

many times on behalf of your church,

24:17

the more your eyes will see the hurt,

24:19

the need, the hope that you can

24:21

represent. So when people

24:23

are going through these divisions

24:25

or struggles that are so painful,

24:28

when they begin to look outwardly, when

24:30

they begin to look like in

24:32

in Matthew nine, Jesus, Jesus

24:34

didn't say, pray for opportunities because

24:36

there aren't many. He said, no, pray for workers

24:39

in the harvest field because the harvest

24:41

is ready. The harvest is ripe. So,

24:44

Debbie, focus upon those ways that you can

24:46

serve, those ways that you can get

24:48

get beyond yourself, which I hear you

24:50

doing. The more you do that,

24:53

the more not only will it help

24:55

your heart heal, but the more you

24:57

will be an example for church

24:59

members and those

25:01

that you serve within your community. I appreciate

25:03

you, Debbie.

25:05

So good. Hold on a line to remember. We're going to give you

25:07

a copy of the book When People Pray, an invitation

25:09

to intercede for your pastor and revive

25:11

your church. Um, Tom,

25:14

we got just about three seconds where we need to go to our break.

25:16

Um, what what do you think it looks like when a church

25:18

starts praying for its pastor?

25:20

Well, there is unity. And in

25:22

unity is easy

25:24

to see and hard to define. But

25:26

you could say lack of conflict. But it's more than

25:28

that. It's a it's a church coming together

25:31

as a church of a single purpose. And,

25:33

you know, when we get on the other side of the break, we may

25:35

have to break that down just a little

25:37

bit. But the number one characteristic

25:40

you see is unity.

25:42

Love it. Okay. Your conversation with Tom Rayner,

25:44

your calls as well. (877) 548-3675.

25:48

We're talking about his new book, When People Pray An Invitation

25:51

to intercede for your pastor and Revive

25:53

your church. Give us a call for.

25:54

The New York conversation.

26:07

Hey, we're back at Stetson Live. We're

26:09

having a guest today as Tom Raynor. And Tom

26:11

and I was working together in two different places

26:13

and continue to just hopefully serve

26:15

the church together as well. He's got a new book

26:18

called When People Pray, and an

26:20

invitation to intercede for your pastor

26:23

and Revive Your church.

26:25

And so we're talking about some of the issues

26:27

in and around that. And, and I

26:29

want to kind of come right to the calls because

26:31

I think we've got a couple of good questions, I think sort

26:33

of coming in. And so let's first go

26:35

to a Deborah. And Deborah is

26:37

up in central Washington. We're going from Chattanooga to

26:39

Washington. So, Deborah, you're live on the air with your question

26:42

in your comment. Go right ahead.

26:44

Hello, friends. I

26:46

am a pastor's wife. And,

26:49

um, forgive me, I haven't had the

26:51

opportunity to read your book yet. I look

26:53

forward to it. Um, I guess

26:56

two things. One, to remember

26:58

to pray for, uh,

27:00

the wife or the husband of those serving

27:02

in the Lord. Because it's

27:05

really, really hard. I'm

27:07

going to get emotional. Forgive me. And

27:10

also for their children. We happen

27:12

to have two adult children, and I have seen,

27:15

um, struggles in them as a result

27:17

of being called into

27:20

the pastorate. And

27:22

then my second point or

27:24

question is, how can I,

27:26

as the wife of the man standing

27:28

in the gap, pray for him

27:31

when I know him? But

27:33

then I also am serving, um,

27:35

my loved ones and friends in the church.

27:38

Thank you.

27:38

Gosh Deborah, what an amazing call and

27:40

so thankful for you too. If you hold on the line

27:43

after Tom answers, our producer will come on

27:45

and give you a copy of When People Pray, an invitation

27:47

to intercede for your pastor and revive your

27:49

church. And in this case, I love the fact that your pastor

27:51

is your husband. Such good insight and

27:53

question there, Tom. What do you think?

27:56

You know, Ed, these first two calls just

27:58

remind me of how many great

28:00

people we have in our churches. Debbie. And

28:02

now, excuse me. Now, Deborah, uh,

28:05

who who just. You

28:07

can hear their hearts, if you will.

28:10

Uh, as a as they ask these questions, Deborah,

28:12

yours is so well articulated.

28:14

There's no coincidence that in this

28:16

30 day book, it begins

28:18

with God. Day one, day

28:21

two. Wisdom in day

28:23

three family. There's

28:25

not a coincidence to that. Order their relationship

28:28

with God, wisdom to lead, and then

28:30

the family. You are so

28:32

right, Deborah. Many pastors,

28:35

spouses and children

28:38

are hurting deeply. And

28:40

so when you are praying and

28:42

I'm not just speaking to you, Deborah, I'm speaking to

28:44

to others who are out there

28:47

when you when you are praying for your pastor,

28:49

you must, you should. And that's why

28:51

we put this in day three. Be praying

28:54

for the families. We

28:56

often don't see the hidden hurt of

28:58

spouses because they

29:01

will see their their their pastor

29:03

spouse hurt and

29:05

most of the time can't say anything about it. And

29:07

then the children, uh, the children

29:09

who are, who know that they're

29:11

in a glass house and they really don't

29:14

know how to respond to what's happening

29:16

to my parent who is

29:18

a who's who's a pastor. So

29:20

the first thing I say to all you church

29:22

members out there, pray for

29:24

the pastor's family, pray for the spouse,

29:26

pray for the children, pray for

29:28

them because the pastor is going to have

29:30

much difficulty being

29:32

an effective leader. Be an effective servant

29:34

leader in the church. If that is not

29:37

a healthy family around him.

29:39

And then the question that you had Deborah about,

29:41

you know, how do you pray for them? And you said

29:43

something that I love, uh, because

29:45

I know him. I'm thinking about my wife, Nellie

29:47

Jo, who knows me so well after 46

29:50

years of marriage and and

29:52

boy, she's seen a lot of flaws. She still does.

29:54

And the fact that you are

29:57

willing to pray despite all the flaws,

29:59

it's just a reminder Christ

30:01

through the Holy Spirit, intercedes for us

30:04

and all of our frailties and all

30:06

of our problems. And you

30:08

are interceding for your husband.

30:11

In this case. Don't stop.

30:13

Don't stop even when you don't feel like it. Don't

30:15

stop when, when, when maybe

30:17

the the the band does not measure

30:19

up because I've been there so many times.

30:22

Just keep on being faithful. And

30:24

and Deborah, I want to say this for you.

30:26

I didn't say it. Debbie, in the first call.

30:29

Uh, I promise I have put both

30:31

of you on my prayer app, and I promise

30:33

I'm going to be praying for you because it's just love

30:35

your hearts and the way that you love the church

30:38

and love your pastor and in your case, Deborah,

30:40

your husband.

30:42

Mhm. I love the colors we have. We have such great,

30:44

great colors. I want to take a little diversion

30:47

from, from this to Deborah's question because I think it

30:49

leads to I mean there is

30:51

you know, I have three daughters, you have three sons. And one of the reasons

30:53

I really decided I liked Tom Rayner

30:55

was to when

30:57

I saw three sons, when to follow him

31:00

in the ministry. And of course, I know two

31:02

of your sons better than I know better than art.

31:05

Um, and but but all three, uh, just,

31:07

you know, following in your

31:09

footsteps in different, in different ways, but

31:12

following your footsteps. But it is I mean, there there

31:14

are challenges to being a pastor's

31:16

kid. And and I think that

31:18

Deborah's right. We need to pray for, you know,

31:20

our, in this case, our wives and and our

31:22

and our kids. We want that to be

31:24

the case. What are some specific ways you

31:26

encourage people to pray for maybe

31:29

in the book or in general for the family

31:31

of a pastor as well?

31:34

Well, first thing you can do is pray that they will have

31:36

true friends. Oftentimes when

31:38

we talk to pastors, spouses and

31:40

pastors, kids, they say, I just don't

31:42

have any friends in the church. And it doesn't mean you they

31:45

have to have friends in the church, but they

31:47

they need some type of friends in

31:49

there. Also pray that

31:51

the pastor's wife in the in the in

31:54

the in the case of uh, Deborah,

31:57

uh, and the kids pray that

31:59

pray that they will

32:01

have the protection from

32:03

the enemy. I mean basically

32:05

putting up a shield of prayer around them

32:08

so that you may not know

32:10

the specifics of how you need to pray for them, but

32:12

God, through His Spirit does. And if you're praying

32:14

for them to have protection from

32:17

the enemy, uh, that is

32:19

indeed a way that you can you

32:21

can be praying for them. And

32:23

I would not discourage you. In fact, that's

32:25

a double negative. I would say I would encourage you

32:27

if you think it's if it's appropriate

32:30

to go up to these pastor

32:32

spouses in these kids and say,

32:34

I just want to pray for you, how can I do

32:36

that? They're going to be surprised when you do it, because

32:38

not many church members do that. But

32:41

try it and see see what you hear from

32:43

them.

32:44

Hmm. So good, so good. Okay, let's go to,

32:46

uh, I think it's a pseudonym. We're

32:48

going to go to Jane in Chicago.

32:50

Jane, you're live on the air with your question in your comment.

32:54

Yes. Thank you so much. I think this is wonderful.

32:57

And I'm also a pastor's

32:59

wife. And just wanting

33:01

to find out how can we actually

33:04

get the church to pray

33:06

to understand that this is a great need.

33:08

And, and I so relate

33:10

with, um, Debbie a while ago

33:13

and just want to know how can

33:15

or what are the best ways in order to

33:17

do this to get the the

33:19

church to understand that the pastors need

33:22

prayer and the families here.

33:24

Super.

33:24

Yeah. Super question. Jane, I'm going to I'm going to help

33:26

one way, give you one suggestion right now is to use

33:29

the book, and we're going to give you a copy, maybe hold

33:31

on until after Tom answers. Our producer will come on the

33:33

line, but it's when people pray an invitation

33:35

to intercede for your pastor and revive your church.

33:37

But beyond that, Tom, uh, what

33:40

are some ways that you would suggest to God? Because it

33:42

could be, I would imagine, like,

33:44

you know, I'm thinking of Jess, your son, your pastor.

33:47

Um, you know, he I mean, you're his

33:49

dad, so maybe it's easier. So let's maybe not use

33:51

Jess as an example, but I'm thinking, like, how do I pass

33:53

out books as a pastor and say, okay, everybody,

33:56

let's do a 30 day pray for me challenge?

33:58

So how do you how does that happen from

34:00

in a local church?

34:02

Here's here's one of the great news

34:04

that we have discovered when we did beta

34:06

tests. And you know what I'm talking about when I do beta test,

34:09

where we actually ask some people to

34:11

go through this and tell us what they did.

34:13

Well, some pastors took the manuscript

34:15

of the book and they, they, they tried it

34:18

in the church. And what I mean by it, they

34:20

actually stood before the people and said,

34:23

hey, I need prayer.

34:25

It goes back to my story that I told him and

34:27

when I was a pastor, and I know it's presumptuous

34:29

of me to ask it, but, uh, can can

34:31

I just ask you to pray for me? And

34:33

if you're willing, just come up to me. I got a 30

34:36

day guide. I know, I know, it sounds

34:38

presumptuous on my part to be given out a guide

34:40

to pray for me, but if you're willing, would you

34:42

do it because I really need it? That's one way. Now,

34:44

not all pastors will feel comfortable. I

34:46

did mention that to just my pastor,

34:48

and I mentioned it to Sam, my

34:50

Florida pastor, two of my sons, and,

34:53

um, they said, no, dad, we're not going to do that.

34:55

So, uh, what did I do?

34:57

I handed the book to some key leaders in

34:59

the church, and, uh, I said,

35:01

would you look at this? And if you feel like,

35:03

uh, it's something that maybe

35:06

you could, uh, talk about

35:08

or even start with in church, do it. I don't want to put you on

35:10

the spot, but somebody you trust. Uh,

35:12

I handed the book to Dave,

35:15

uh, in one of the two churches, uh,

35:17

that I just mentioned, where my two sons are pastors,

35:20

and, uh, I just I left it between

35:22

him and the Lord, and so it's

35:24

it's okay to say, would you just look

35:26

at it? Someone you trust. And once you

35:28

hand that book out, just, ah,

35:31

just a request for prayer. It doesn't have to be selling

35:33

Tom's book. Just a request for prayer

35:35

for pastors. Once you do that,

35:37

I think you're going to be surprised at the response

35:39

in a good way. Because when

35:41

we did this with pastors and

35:43

with church members, um,

35:45

I think it was with unanimity, and I'd have

35:48

to go back to confirm that I'm giving

35:50

correct facts. I think it was all

35:52

the pastors who did it had a

35:54

surprising to them positive

35:57

response from church members.

35:59

Yeah, I think it would be. And this is a

36:01

great thing. I mean, I think, Jane, it would be appropriate

36:04

even for you to say, hey, let's do something like this,

36:06

or I mean, just think of all the listeners we have across

36:08

the 200 outlets that we're on right now. If

36:10

they were to actually take the time.

36:12

Yeah. What got done? What?

36:14

I'm just I'm just thinking about. Boy,

36:16

if if, if on 200 stations,

36:18

we had ten people each who began

36:20

praying for their pastor. That's 2000 churches

36:23

where we're having intercessory prayer and

36:25

they're holding up the arms of their leader. That

36:28

would be great. Yeah.

36:28

And and again, if you can initiate

36:31

it, and I don't think any church would not want to do that

36:33

again, we're taking your calls. We've got one

36:35

segment left. (877) 548-3675.

36:39

Questions about praying for your pastor. Maybe ideas. Questions

36:41

for Tom (877) 548-3675.

36:57

Hey! We're back. Headsets are live. We're having

36:59

a conversation with Tom Raynor in and

37:01

around his new book,

37:03

which is. And again, I should mention to you that

37:05

he's got a whole lot of books. Go to editor Live.com.

37:08

You can click through and all the books and the

37:10

are listed in the in his bio. His

37:12

new book is When People Pray, an invitation to

37:14

intercede for your pastor and

37:16

revive your church. And

37:18

we're talking just about that. We've had some, I think, really

37:20

helpful calls to help us think through some of these issues

37:22

about how we would start

37:24

such a process and more. Tom,

37:27

I'm interested in, before we get to some final

37:29

calls that will do a bit of a lightning round

37:31

at the end, but I'm interested to see what

37:33

are some of the challenging issues that you would

37:35

encourage people to pray for

37:37

their pastor today that all of us can do. Even before

37:39

we get the book though, I encourage him to get the book. But what

37:41

should we be praying for our pastors today?

37:44

I want to go back to the earlier

37:46

question about family. So let's,

37:48

you know, let's let's begin with family. Another

37:51

one is criticism. Uh,

37:53

it's endemic in any leadership

37:55

position, not just in pastors, but it can be

37:57

especially painful for doing

37:59

for leading a church. Pray for

38:01

the preaching. Many times we don't think

38:03

about, uh, that pastor is

38:06

preparing a sermon throughout the week and then delivers

38:08

it, usually on a Sunday. And

38:10

we pray for the preparation

38:12

of the sermon. Pray for the work of the spirit.

38:15

Uh, in in the in the sermon. Just pray for

38:17

those. Another one are special occasions,

38:19

particularly funerals. Um,

38:22

a lot of people do not realize that

38:24

pastors do very challenging

38:26

funerals. Uh, sometimes it could be suicide,

38:28

sometime it could be someone who did

38:31

not seem to be a follower of Christ. And

38:33

how do you do a funeral like that? So

38:35

you can you can pray for them in that way.

38:37

And I would just say strength.

38:39

There's a chapter in here, uh, chapter 15

38:42

called weariness. Just pray for strength

38:44

for your pastor. When a pastor tries to do

38:46

things in his own mind or his own power,

38:49

uh, he's he's going to be weary,

38:51

at the least, burned out at the worst.

38:53

And those are just some of the areas.

38:55

But, boy, if we had

38:58

this, this revival of,

39:00

uh, thousands of people praying for their

39:02

pastors, I think we'd see a revival

39:04

of the churches and we would possibly

39:06

even see a revival of our communities.

39:09

Yet, I do think I mean, the subtitle is,

39:11

you know, in subtitles are I have a love hate

39:13

relationship with subtitles. Uh, sometimes

39:16

they're like, okay. And it's like, you know, they go on

39:18

and on forever, but sometimes they're really

39:20

necessary. And so it's it's I mean,

39:22

there is a benefit.

39:25

I mean, it's, I mean, praying is its

39:27

own good. We should pray. And praying for your

39:29

pastor is its own good. I,

39:32

you know, pastors and staff, you know, the men and women serve

39:34

you there. Um, but but I would also say

39:36

to, uh, it does lead to

39:38

an impact in your church. You and I even wrote

39:40

in, in a book we wrote together, Transformational

39:42

Church, and talked about some statistical

39:44

measures of people praying it impacts

39:47

your church for the positive. So and we're going

39:49

to jump to our calls in just a moment. So remember

39:51

we're going to head there. We're going to need our callers to be

39:53

pretty quick. And then Tom will give a little quick answers.

39:55

And we'll do a kind of a lightning round. Uh, but

39:57

how does it impact your church when you start

40:00

praying for your pastor?

40:02

Well, first thing.

40:02

It impacts you just simply because you are

40:04

praying person you are. You are in connection

40:07

with God. And so God is

40:09

working in your life through His Holy Spirit. So it

40:11

impacts you. It impacts those around

40:13

you because they see things different about you and

40:15

the way you are, the way you are, uh,

40:17

your disposition and things that you might say or

40:20

do, it will impact the pastor

40:22

as well. Even if the pastor does not know you're

40:24

praying for him, it's going to impact the pastor.

40:26

So just think about those things. It'll impact

40:28

you. It'll impact those around you in

40:30

an impact. The pastor, the

40:33

the, the benefits of of prayer.

40:35

And we should be talking about just having a conversation

40:37

with God instead of self-serving benefits. But

40:39

the benefits of prayer are ongoing

40:42

and lasting for those who decide

40:44

that they are going to take up the mantle to

40:46

be a pray or prayer warrior.

40:49

Love it. Love it. Okay, let's go to I think it's

40:51

Joe who is in the great

40:54

Commonwealth wealth of Pennsylvania where I used

40:56

to live. Joe, your live on the air. Go right ahead.

40:59

Hi. Oh, I'm going to

41:01

try to be concise. First of all, thank

41:03

you for having this program on today.

41:06

I didn't know I needed as much as I do.

41:09

Um, and

41:11

the Lord has really used it. I do pray

41:13

I'm 75, sold

41:15

out. I guess that's an old term, but

41:18

I just, uh. If I could make it quick.

41:21

Uh, I came up where my parents

41:24

sent me to all different kind of churches,

41:26

uh, Christian denominations at the time,

41:29

preaching the gospel. And then

41:31

finally, when I was away

41:33

from the Lord, I was invited to a Baptist

41:35

church, which did not sit

41:37

well with me because I'd been hurt as a child in

41:39

the Baptist church. That's not the key of

41:41

my conversation. That church

41:43

was an old country church. Nobody

41:45

sang on Kay. Nothing was

41:47

fancy. They loved.

41:49

Oh, I'm so sorry to interrupt, but we're kind of running

41:51

out of time, so I need you to get right to your question.

41:53

So please go right to that question.

41:54

Okay. That's the background. For 30

41:56

years, I came up in, um,

41:59

they didn't hand you a paper to tell you what to do next.

42:02

Then after years,

42:04

I know I'm where I'm supposed to be. It's

42:07

all these grand pianos you sing on key.

42:09

You do it this way, and they do

42:11

preach the gospel. I've had a bad

42:13

attitude about where I am and

42:16

really not like in the pastor so much. After

42:18

all these years. What?

42:21

I am going to pray for him more than

42:23

I ever had before. And his

42:26

wife. What would you say

42:28

to a person like me who

42:31

is actually my my background

42:33

is belittled by the president?

42:36

Oh, that was a cult. What

42:38

would you say to a person like me? And I

42:40

know they were both gospel preaching

42:42

churches.

42:45

Yeah. No super super questions. So kind of

42:47

around you know she mentioned doesn't like the pastor

42:49

I think that's pretty transparent. She feels

42:51

maybe sometimes belittles a little bit of the background that's there.

42:53

I mean what a I mean what a great question

42:56

Tom. How do you pray? Because I mean, there are people who don't

42:58

like necessarily like all that's going on, their church

43:00

and their pastors talk to us about that.

43:03

I am not going to frame your pastor as your enemy,

43:05

but I am going to say that Jesus said to pray for enemies,

43:08

for your enemies. And if Jesus said to pray

43:10

for your enemies, if you have a problem

43:12

with someone, pray for

43:14

that person. That is. It's challenging,

43:17

but it is transformational if necessary.

43:20

Go to that person and talk to them in

43:22

the spirit of of Christian communication.

43:25

But above all, pray for those where you have

43:27

a problem. You'll be amazed what God

43:29

might do in your own life in your perspective about

43:31

them.

43:32

Ju ju. Thank you. Just being for transparent, let me

43:34

encourage you to hold down the line. We're going to give you a copy of When People

43:37

Pray, an invitation to intercede for your pastor

43:39

and revive your church. I'm going to go to Betty

43:41

in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Another call

43:44

from Pennsylvania. And Betty, we need you to jump right

43:46

to the point. So you're live on the air. Go right ahead.

43:49

Right to the point. So we are starting

43:51

a new prayer group in our church. We have a brand new pastor

43:54

and he came in and behind

43:56

him came a lot of the congregation that

43:58

have all their wants and

44:00

dreams fulfilled by this one

44:03

pastor because we've been without. So

44:05

how do we pray for the new guy to give

44:07

good direction to the congregation,

44:10

to bring us all together, give him

44:12

vision for where we should be as

44:14

the congregation, and to support him the best

44:16

way we can.

44:17

Specifically, what a great question, of course.

44:20

Betty love it, and Betty and Joe both hold on to. We're

44:22

going to give you a copy of the book When People Pray. Tom, what do you

44:24

think? Do. Pastor. How can she pray? We got about two

44:26

minutes left in the program.

44:28

Oh, she she hit the nail on the head there. When

44:30

a new pastor comes in, everybody thinks her own agenda

44:32

is going to be met. Everybody being an exaggeration,

44:34

hyperbole.

44:36

Uh, but.

44:36

But the new pastor. Oh, I got a chance to get

44:38

the music style I want. I got the chance to do

44:41

these facility issues I want. I got the

44:43

chance to get a new preacher that will be be

44:45

better than the previous. So it's very

44:47

common what you're hearing here. So

44:49

basically what you need to be praying for your

44:51

pastor I address in the second

44:54

day right after God is wisdom.

44:56

That pastor needs discernment, that pastor

44:58

needs wisdom. That pastor needs

45:00

to know when all of these voices

45:03

are coming in him, where should he listen

45:05

and where should he not? And I love

45:07

the fact that you are coming, and I'm just

45:09

looking at all of these. And Betty is our most recent,

45:12

uh, looking at all of these calls. And by

45:14

the way, if you've noticed something, everybody

45:16

that's been on the phone is a female. And

45:18

that is something we noticed as well,

45:20

that oftentimes the females

45:22

in the church are the greatest prayer warriors. We need to

45:24

do a study of the why on that. But

45:27

for Deborah, Debbie, Jane, Jo, Betty,

45:29

all of you, thank you for

45:31

being an intercessor and pray

45:33

for this pastor man.

45:36

He's got an opportunity, but he also has

45:38

a lot of challenges because expectations

45:40

will be high. And usually the expectations

45:42

for the are for the unholy trinity of me,

45:44

myself and I.

45:47

Mhm. Mhm.

45:48

Tom Rainer's been our guest. His new

45:50

book is When People Pray, an invitation

45:52

to intercede for your pastor and

45:55

revive your church. I always enjoy having Tom

45:57

on programs and discussing. We've had him on the Stetson

45:59

Church Leaders podcast as well. So if

46:01

you're a pastor, want to listen to that. It's more geared towards

46:03

pastors on this journey. And of course,

46:05

then I love having here with our broad Christian audience here,

46:08

here on Stitcher Live Booty Radio partners

46:10

and affiliates. Speaking of Moody Radio,

46:13

uh, let me thank our behind the scenes team here at Moody

46:15

Radio. My producer is Karen Hendren, my

46:17

engineer is Bob Morrow, and

46:19

Laura is manning the phones. So

46:21

to hear today's program again, you'll find it at Ed

46:23

Setzer live.com or on the Moody

46:25

Radio app. Let me remind you, I mean, increasingly

46:27

people like, subscribe to this as a podcast

46:30

and you can listen whatever, because you may be Saturday morning

46:32

or early afternoon. You're not always in your garage

46:34

working, but you can subscribe as a podcast.

46:36

You can't call it live, but you can surprise podcasts

46:39

and listen as well. Again, connect with us through

46:41

social media. Headsets are live and headsets are Live

46:43

is a production of Moody Radio.

46:46

Moody radio is a ministry of Moody Bible Institute,

46:48

and my encouragement to you is pray for your

46:50

pastor and thanks, Tom Rainer, for helping us to do so.