0:01

You. Don't follow this con mans course and it

0:04

happens to people all the time. It just

0:06

makes my blood boil like I feel obligated

0:08

to set the record straight with people. Could

0:10

it happen once out of a thousand times?

0:12

Yes, But you'll spend the next five years

0:14

trying to find that one over the thousand

0:17

businesses. Sounds. Terrific doesn't

0:19

It sounds pretty good right? The only

0:21

thing is you don't take into account

0:23

or I didn't take into account in

0:25

by sheer brilliance is what if the

0:27

stock goes down well the stock pardon

0:29

my french shit The bed. With

0:36

thing that I wanna really impart to

0:38

people is it's doable. I mean anybody can

0:40

do with not everybody will but anybody

0:42

could do it in. For those that

0:44

own business is currently they should be

0:46

looking at this in two ways. Number

0:48

one is. Good.

0:51

I saw one ad not long ago the sit

0:54

by business throwing off two hundred and fifty thousand

0:56

dollars a year of cash flow for no money.

0:58

Down and complete the transaction and thirty days I'll

1:00

tell you what. I'll eat the building that I'm

1:03

in right now if that's possible. If

1:05

you wait for the right time, the

1:07

right time never materializes cause you could

1:10

always talk yourself out of doing anything.

1:15

My. Name is Richard Parker. I'm sixty two

1:17

years old. I still feel eighteen and

1:19

uncommon to live and in person. from

1:21

South Florida. I love between Fort Lauderdale

1:23

in West Palm Beach, in a city

1:26

called Boca Raton. And. What Your

1:28

company? My company is Deal More

1:30

Corporation and Richard parker.com that's on

1:33

the by your education peace and

1:35

that I do my M and

1:37

A work through Roy Street Advisors.

1:40

So I guess sounds like kind of three companies are

1:42

that is or one and specifically that your best known

1:44

for. The. Two companies richard parker.com

1:46

as the educational materials related

1:48

to individuals that are interested

1:50

in acquiring businesses so Deal

1:53

More corporation is affiliated with

1:55

that. They're intertwined. And Royce

1:57

Street Advisors is the mergers and

1:59

Aca. work that I do

2:01

specifically representing sellers

2:05

which is a business that's been around for fewer years

2:07

but I've been in the M&A sell side representation for

2:10

three decades. Sellers

2:12

of what? Good question. Business owners that are looking to sell

2:14

their business. Typically

2:17

there's a period by which they have to prepare their business for sale. Most

2:21

of them want to go to market and believe their

2:23

business is ready to sell and I would say probably

2:25

90% of their businesses are not ready for sale. They're

2:29

ready to sell their business at a time which will

2:31

typically range from about 6 to 12

2:33

months helping them prepare their business for

2:36

sale to make it more saleable to

2:38

a broader market and processes, procedures that

2:40

they can implement, employees that they

2:42

put into place that will significantly increase the

2:44

value of their business when the time comes

2:46

to exit which they're generally looking for in

2:48

a shorter window of time over the course

2:50

of the next 12 to 24 months. So

2:53

you help people buy and sell businesses? So you're

2:55

a business broker? Well I don't

2:58

consider myself a business broker and that's

3:00

not saying anything disparaging as far as

3:02

business brokers are concerned but on the

3:04

acquisition side and the representation side, I

3:07

deal in higher profitable businesses, businesses that

3:09

typically have EBITDA from 1 to 10

3:11

million dollars and business brokerage not always

3:14

but by and large is a more

3:16

Main Street USA businesses. So

3:19

I'm considered an investment banker in

3:21

the lower market because that will

3:23

entail additionally bringing parties to finance

3:25

the deal. Oftentimes multiple parties and

3:28

some type of syndication to provide the

3:30

financing for the deal which generally does

3:32

not happen in the lower end amongst

3:34

business brokers. And how big is your

3:36

business as far as I guess maybe

3:38

clients, employees, revenue? Can you just give

3:40

us some facts and figures? Sure. It's

3:42

a private company so I'm not going

3:44

to disclose exact financial information but on

3:47

our publication side and our main program

3:49

which is called How to Buy a

3:51

Good Business at a Great Price which

3:53

is developed and published specifically for individuals

3:55

looking to acquire businesses. We've sold over 100,000

3:57

copies. side,

4:00

I've been doing transactions for three

4:04

or four transactions a year with just

4:10

under $10 million. And

4:13

are these businesses just like in South Florida? It's

4:16

an interesting question because prior

4:18

to COVID, the M&A business

4:20

or seller representation would have

4:22

been strictly in Florida, mostly

4:24

in Southeast Florida. But as

4:26

the world got used to

4:28

Zoom and working remotely and

4:30

more people working remotely, the footprint

4:33

has expanded exponentially right across

4:35

America, have clients in Europe

4:37

as well. On

4:39

the publication side, our business while we're

4:41

based in South Florida, we have clients

4:43

in 86 countries. I

4:46

don't know if it's easier to talk about one

4:48

versus the other. Let's talk about the buy side,

4:50

certainly. The buy side because

4:52

that's where the publication is and that's

4:55

any offset to generating revenue related to

4:57

this is I think is going to

4:59

be more interesting for people looking to

5:02

potentially acquire a business or a franchise.

5:04

And similarly, if there's business owners, if

5:06

you have a good audience of business

5:08

owners that may consider growing their business

5:11

through acquisition, those are pretty much good

5:13

subjects. Okay. Well, like for the

5:15

buy side, then what company out of the two,

5:17

right? Because we got, how do you say

5:19

DOMO? DOMO, it's the abbreviation for doing it

5:22

on my own, D-I-O-M-O. Okay, good. Okay, because

5:24

I was trying to figure out the way

5:26

to pronounce that. So anyone can look right

5:28

now at domo.com, right? Correct.

5:31

To find educational information about buying businesses

5:33

really? Yeah. So what

5:35

we did was because we wanted

5:38

to really expand the resources that

5:40

we make available to buyers and

5:42

not simply be a company that

5:44

sells educational material because I went

5:46

into this business never to make money. I did

5:49

it as a labor love and to try to

5:51

help people and I never even thought it was

5:53

going to turn into a business. So

5:56

the richardparker.com offshoot is

5:58

strictly written. resources, hundreds

6:00

of articles related to buying businesses covering

6:02

every step of the business buying process

6:05

and was a double click to that

6:07

the materials that we offer are available

6:09

from that site that takes you to

6:11

DeOMO. DeOMO was the first company that

6:14

I started when I went into my

6:16

own business in larger businesses in my

6:18

adult years and I've always kept that

6:20

name and it's worked out brilliantly based

6:22

upon the type of content that we're

6:25

providing because we're trying to help people

6:27

go out on their own and establish

6:29

their own businesses and acquire their

6:31

own businesses. So the umbrella company

6:33

if you will would be deomo.com

6:35

but for anybody listening who wants

6:37

to educate themselves and grab some

6:39

really compelling resources and have a

6:41

good good learning experience visiting richardparker.com

6:43

will provide them with everything they

6:45

need. It's just for people who

6:47

are interested in buying businesses mainly

6:49

just geared that way? Yes.

6:52

Okay. Roy Street Advisors

6:55

is kind of your part of

6:57

the business where you're actually helping

6:59

people versus the educational part that we

7:01

just talked about. Yes, correct. That's where I

7:03

represent sellers. Okay. Why did you

7:05

call that one Roy Street Advisors? Roy

7:08

Street is the name of a street in

7:10

Montreal where I grew up where my grandfather

7:12

had his restaurant. Okay. Nice.

7:15

Which is pretty what happens though I get a

7:17

lot of emails, Dear Roy, right? Where people

7:19

think okay, this is Mr. Street. That's

7:22

an interesting last name. Yes. So

7:24

it's named after an actual street in Montreal. Are you

7:26

the sole owner of this business and do you have

7:28

anybody who works with you? I'm the

7:31

sole owner of the business. I

7:33

have individuals that work with me

7:35

in administration capacity. I had

7:37

over the years a number of businesses that I've

7:39

acquired because I purchased 13 businesses,

7:41

sold 12 of them. So I've had well

7:43

over a thousand employees and in these businesses

7:46

as the internet and

7:48

technology and software became

7:51

more and more available

7:53

and I guess effective rather

7:55

than efficient but effective really

7:58

done a good job with a lot of business. lot

8:00

of help of automating the entire

8:02

business. And so the publication side

8:04

is fully automated when

8:06

individuals order our materials, the

8:09

entire process of fulfillment and

8:11

automated emails that go out to

8:13

them, which with ongoing education that

8:15

of course is all automated. I

8:17

like to spend my time helping

8:19

people so I always encourage

8:22

anyone who purchases our course, I never even

8:24

charge them to email me or

8:26

I'm happy to jump onto a phone call with

8:28

them to help them through any questions that they

8:30

have or situations that they've come across. And so

8:33

through automation and building a team

8:35

of administrators if you will support

8:37

people who may deal with any

8:39

technical issues or my appointments I

8:41

get have quite a bit of media demands whether

8:44

it be podcasts or interviews, articles etc.

8:46

so they're able to take care of all of

8:48

that. And so what's your work life

8:50

balance today? What do you say? I work

8:52

life balance today is terrific. Hasn't

8:55

always been that way. I used to

8:57

work a hundred hours a week but

8:59

I'll spend the majority of my day

9:01

in the morning handling any emails related

9:03

to clients who've purchased our

9:05

materials. I don't work very

9:07

hard anymore. I've stayed completely focused on that

9:10

side of the business for the two or

9:12

three engagements that I'll handle during the course

9:14

of the year on the M&A side. You

9:17

can't really schedule for that because when you

9:19

bring a client on board and you're helping

9:21

him or her and their company prepare for

9:23

a sale which is a lot of planning

9:26

that may be involved in policies and procedures

9:28

that may go into place. So you get

9:30

that there's a lot of upfront work preparing

9:32

all the decks and the collateral material takes

9:35

quite a bit of work and then it

9:37

goes in ebbs and flows. Very often it's

9:39

quiet when there's interested parties or a party

9:41

then the amount of time devoted to it

9:44

could go pretty bonkers. But I

9:46

have a really good work life balance.

9:48

We're 3.15 Eastern time when I'm finished

9:50

this podcast I'll be done for the

9:52

day. I try to close

9:54

down well before 5 unless it's absolutely

9:57

necessary. I don't work weekends anymore.

9:59

I don't work in the evenings. I

10:01

really have a nice balance. I

10:04

have a lot of leisure time, spend a lot

10:06

of time with my family and play as much

10:08

ice hockey as I possibly can book. Nice. That

10:11

seems hard to do in South Florida though.

10:13

No, there's actually a pretty good ice hockey

10:15

community here because the Florida Panthers have been

10:17

brought some awareness to it, but there's a

10:20

good community because you have a lot of

10:22

Canadians that have retired down here in Canada.

10:24

There's leisure activities, hockey is everything. I think

10:26

cold beer is probably number two and

10:29

we have a really good community. I play in an old

10:31

guys league, I'm 62. I

10:33

play in leagues on Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday and

10:35

one usually open pickup game and we have

10:37

between 40 and 70 players in our league.

10:40

Nice. Oh yeah, I guess it's

10:42

hard to play outside. I guess is what I

10:44

should have said. Yeah, it's sort of impossible to

10:47

play roller. Or yeah, I mean, if you play

10:49

pond hockey, you're going into the drink, right? So

10:51

yeah, that part is different, but we have pretty

10:53

good facilities and they just built a beautiful facility

10:55

actually, 10 minutes from my house. I have one,

10:58

two, three, four rinks within 20 minutes of my

11:00

house. Well, that's good to hear

11:02

that you have that. And part of why I

11:04

was asking even like your work life balance now,

11:06

as people know, and maybe this is your first

11:08

episode you've ever listened to, anyone who's listening now,

11:10

I just like to have a variety of

11:12

different types of entrepreneurs, but also different age brackets.

11:15

So what I thought was kind of cool,

11:17

and I didn't really know, I figured we would

11:19

discuss it, but maybe you're kind of looking at

11:21

yourself as semi-retired now versus you said you

11:23

used to work a lot more. And so it's

11:25

great to hear, I think that's what every

11:27

entrepreneur strives to do, right? I mean, if

11:29

you want to work 100 hours

11:31

up until you're 70, 70 plus,

11:33

I mean, go ahead, more power to you, but

11:36

that's not what I'm trying to do. So I

11:38

think that'll be fun and nice to hear all

11:41

these different types of businesses you've bought and what

11:43

you do today, even as maybe

11:45

quote unquote semi-retired or looking back at that,

11:47

you aren't working as hard and enjoying life

11:49

a little bit more. Yeah, I

11:51

think that's a fair assessment. One of the things

11:53

that's really important to have four children, my youngest

11:56

one is 21, and we've had this discussion recently

11:58

is you have to pay your dues. somewhere

12:00

in your journey, right? And if you don't

12:02

pay them early enough, you're gonna end up

12:05

regretting them and having to pay them later

12:07

on and pay them later on means you're

12:09

probably working a lot longer than you want

12:11

to. I love what I do. Don't get

12:13

me wrong. I love my work. I can't

12:15

wait to get out of bed every morning.

12:17

I get enormous gratification from the two components

12:19

of what I deal with probably more so

12:21

on the publication side and the guide that

12:23

we sell and being able to deal with

12:25

individuals who are looking at the core of

12:27

business because we change lives and we've had

12:30

tens of thousands of success stories. In

12:32

my early years, I was working

12:34

80 to 100 hours a week because

12:36

again you do have to pay your

12:38

dues at one point and whether it

12:40

be you're learning or you're trying to

12:42

make your way or juggling a number

12:44

of things or trying to get ahead

12:47

of the competition which is potentially other

12:49

employees within a company where you may

12:51

be. In my view, there's no avoiding

12:53

it and then if you're lucky and

12:55

I don't want to say smart because I try

12:57

to be humble about all of this but if

12:59

you plan reasonably well you could wind it down

13:01

a little bit and you also have

13:04

the ability that you're working at a smarter

13:06

pace, your connections are better, while you

13:08

should always be striving to learn. There's a lot

13:10

more that you know now or I

13:12

know now that I did 10-20 and

13:14

certainly 30 years ago so you tend

13:17

to work more effectively and can identify

13:19

opportunities better than I did years ago

13:21

because I know the questions to ask

13:24

and what to look for so I

13:26

think the timing and the work-life balance

13:28

is a choice and also if you're

13:31

someone who really loves to work and

13:33

which is something that I certainly do,

13:35

I believe that over

13:37

time you work more effectively and

13:39

so that massive amount of 80 to

13:42

100 hours a week gets

13:44

reduced exponentially and there's no escaping the fact

13:46

if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you've got

13:48

to put in the hours. There's just no

13:50

escaping it. Yeah, especially in the

13:52

beginning kind of like what you were saying and

13:55

again I think hopefully again anyone can strive to

13:57

do whatever they want but having kind of that

13:59

vision... But like yeah, this first year,

14:01

two years, whatever you are in the business, you're

14:03

working so much because you're learning so much too,

14:05

right? And then as you learn more, maybe you

14:08

don't have to spend so much time

14:10

educating yourself, you just know how to be more

14:12

efficient and effective. So yeah, thanks for talking about

14:14

that and stressing that. So let's go ahead and

14:16

just dive into your story. Why don't you talk

14:18

about where you grew up and then we'll kind

14:21

of just take it year by year on how

14:23

you got to where you are today. Okay,

14:25

sure. So I grew up in

14:27

Montreal, Canada. I lived there till I was 35.

14:29

I grew up in a suburb

14:32

of Montreal. Montreal is an island. So

14:34

I lived on the island just north

14:36

of Montreal called Laval, which is the

14:38

second largest city in province of Quebec.

14:40

And I grew up in a

14:42

very middle-class family, probably lower middle-class

14:44

family, hardworking parents. I remember my

14:46

mother having several jobs at one

14:49

point. My father was a classic

14:51

real throwback. He was a door-to-door

14:53

aluminum siding salesman, wonderful guy, incredibly

14:55

intelligent for someone who finished

14:57

going to school when he was 12. And

14:59

while growing up, I've been asked this question

15:01

a number of times related to entrepreneurial spirit

15:03

or when did I feel that that clicked

15:06

in or my interest in that. And I'd

15:08

say I was probably always there because not

15:11

working was not an option in our family.

15:13

So I always had jobs, part-time jobs from

15:15

the time I was 12, making a little

15:18

extra money and started a couple of

15:20

businesses when I was really young. My

15:22

father was kind of interesting that way from

15:24

as long as I could remember if I

15:26

didn't have any part-time work and then I

15:28

worked at a gas station for a number

15:31

of years pumping gas and doing oil change

15:33

and tire changes. If I had

15:35

a job, my father would always ask me

15:37

whether I needed money. If I wasn't working,

15:39

my father would never offer to give me

15:41

any extra money. That always resonated with me

15:44

because laziness was just not an option in

15:46

our family. My parents were both hardworking and

15:48

just set a really good example. And then

15:50

I went to school, finished school, system is

15:52

a little different in Quebec and started to work

15:55

full-time. I worked in family business for a couple

15:57

of years in the clothing industry which was a

15:59

business. that was originally geared for me to

16:18

farming community so I really enjoyed that. And

16:20

then... Well real quick before you keep moving

16:22

on because you said you grew up in

16:25

Montreal, right? Yes. Okay and

16:27

just so people know Montreal, right? I'm

16:29

just near kind of New York City.

16:31

Yes. And then but if you're just

16:33

talking about Saskatchewan, it's right above Montana,

16:35

North Dakota. My north Dakota was about

16:37

90 miles away from where I lived,

16:40

yes. Okay. So you and your dad

16:42

like moved there? My father had an

16:44

office out there and the renovation business

16:46

was booming in that part of the

16:48

country. So I went out there to

16:50

work with him for a couple

16:52

of years and I loved it

16:54

out there and that was in the renovation

16:56

business. We did work, we did everything from

16:58

decks and siding and roofs and windows. I

17:01

knew that trade very well because I used to work with him

17:03

every summer from the time I was 12. When

17:06

I was 12, 13, 14, 15, I

17:08

worked selling aluminum siding door to door

17:10

in northern Ontario and Sudbury, Ontario which

17:12

is near Thunder Bay. Trying to give

17:14

you some proximity. I guess if you

17:16

go around Thunder Bay by probably Lake

17:19

Superior or whatever but it's way up

17:21

there and it's cold. I mean

17:23

some pretty small interesting towns and way off

17:25

the beaten path which I always loved because

17:27

the people that you met in those communities

17:29

were always terrific and down to earth and

17:32

we're just normal people, right? Really just good

17:34

hard-working blue-collar people. Well yeah, where did you

17:36

end up going to college? Did you go

17:38

to college? I went to two years in

17:40

Quebec. You have grade 11 high school, then

17:43

two years of college and then three years

17:45

of university. I went to two years of

17:47

college. I did not go to university. Okay,

17:49

but then after you got out of college

17:51

you were saying is that right basically when you

17:53

joined your dad and moved out to Saskatchewan? Yeah,

17:55

I did the family business for two years and

17:57

then joined my father in Saskatchewan for... a

18:00

couple of years. So that takes us up to you

18:05

being like 25, 26 or so? I guess that would have been younger than

18:07

that, 22. Okay, so

18:09

1983. So just so people know. Yeah, so

18:11

yeah, good. You're good. You're doing your math

18:13

well. Yeah, well, Excel does it for me.

18:15

But yeah, with that, it always

18:17

helps me because if you said you're 23

18:19

and today you're only 30, right? It's a

18:21

big difference. But I just try to put

18:23

people in the mindset of like, okay, still

18:25

don't have internet, right? Oh,

18:27

no. Don't have internet, don't have

18:29

cell phone, like CB, citizen bands,

18:32

handhelds were in the cars at that point, which

18:34

were pretty popular. The CB radio truckers used. Yeah,

18:36

like the truckers used to use. That was pretty

18:38

popular for a while. I knew one person growing

18:40

up who had a phone in his cars, name

18:43

was Ralph Schwartz. He lived up the street from

18:45

us, a friend of my father's, but it was

18:47

not duplex. It was single. So you could talk,

18:49

but you couldn't both have a conversation, right? I

18:51

have to finish talking and then you could interject.

18:53

There were probably six people in all of Montreal

18:56

that had a car phone, but it wasn't a

18:58

cell phone as we know it. It was more,

19:00

I guess, it was either radio frequency or citizen

19:02

band frequency designed as a phone. Okay. And so

19:04

yeah, so you're in your early 20s, like you

19:07

said, 1983 ish or so, where

19:10

you're working with your dad in Saskatchewan and you're

19:12

doing that for a couple of years as far as

19:14

being kind of like a handyman. Yeah,

19:16

doing most of the selling job estimations and

19:18

job management. Yeah. Okay. And then why do

19:21

you take us from there? Okay, perfect. So

19:23

for a very short period thereafter, I worked

19:25

for what was going to be my future

19:27

father-in-law for a very short period of time

19:30

in the retail business. He was in the

19:32

used office equipment business and I did it

19:34

for a short period of time. He was

19:36

a terrific guy, passed away very young, 57

19:39

years old before I married his

19:41

daughter. My first marriage, but I

19:44

worked for a short period of time because I

19:46

really didn't enjoy it. But because he had a

19:48

tendency, well, in retail, you know, you have to

19:50

wait for the customers to come to you. You

19:52

couldn't really impact it much. It was an interesting

19:54

business because the money is made on the buy.

19:56

He used to buy out bankruptcies and offices that

19:58

were closing down or refinishing the raw. offices. It

20:01

was a good learning experience but also had a

20:03

little bit of tension with him. Not

20:05

terrible but said, there's a very good chance

20:07

I'm going to marry his daughter. I shouldn't

20:10

be in an environment where there's going to

20:12

be any type of tension. I just didn't

20:14

foresee it being a good thing long term

20:16

for career wise and also more importantly on

20:18

the personal side. I left there

20:20

and I got hired. That was in 1984, in the summer

20:23

of 1984. That

20:26

was probably, and I'm good with my dates. That

20:28

was probably about May or June 1984. I

20:31

had a cabin north of Montreal that I buddy

20:33

and I shared. I took off a

20:35

couple of months, not that I was entitled to

20:38

any vacation but I knew that my next job

20:40

was like, okay, time to get serious, right? I

20:43

said, I'm going to take off a couple months to spend

20:45

my time up north on the lake for a couple of

20:47

months. I had a few bucks enough to live. I didn't

20:49

have big expenses or what have you. I

20:51

did that for the balance of the summer and then in

20:53

August of 1984, I joined a company in

20:57

Montreal that was in the consumer products business

20:59

called Sharon Industries. They were in the

21:02

toy and other infant products, clothing

21:04

and accessories and baby products like

21:06

pacifiers, bibs, that type of stuff

21:08

and infant bedding and joined them

21:10

in 1984. I

21:12

was hired as a salesperson and they

21:14

were a real high flying company. Their

21:16

number, their divisions were doing unbelievable. They

21:18

were getting ready to go public. They

21:21

were doing probably, I'm going to get

21:23

my numbers right because I wasn't very

21:25

involved at that highest level but the

21:27

company was probably doing about $15 million

21:29

a year, making a

21:32

lot of money and when public, the

21:34

company was eventually built up to about

21:36

$60 million a year before one major

21:38

acquisition. I started off as a salesman,

21:40

then became a sales manager, then a

21:42

national sales manager probably within about three

21:44

years and not because I was that

21:46

good, right? I was way

21:48

over my head but the company was growing

21:50

by leaps and bounds and I just kept

21:52

getting these opportunities because I was working like

21:55

a maniac 100 hours a

21:57

week easily, making up for what I didn't

21:59

know by... hard work and really learning,

22:01

attaching myself to people in the industry

22:03

and within the company who were much

22:05

more experienced and smarter than me and

22:07

pummeling them with questions and just doing

22:10

my very best to cut down my

22:12

learning curve because I had a big

22:14

job on my shoulders. And what was

22:16

the company name and what did they

22:18

do again? Could you just give us

22:20

a little bit? It was called Sharon

22:22

Industries. C-H-A-R-A-N. And it was in the

22:24

consumer products. There was a number of

22:27

divisions. There was a stationary division, a

22:29

children's clothing division, a children's accessory

22:31

division, a toy products division. And ultimately

22:33

in 1987, that company Sharon

22:37

purchased Cooper Sporting Goods, which Cooper

22:39

at that time was the largest

22:41

supplier of hockey gear in the

22:43

world. They were manufacturers and candidates,

22:45

a little bit of manufacturing overseas.

22:47

They also were in the baseball

22:49

business. And we bought Cooper for

22:52

I think it was 30 or

22:54

40 million dollars

22:57

in 1987. And I worked in that

22:59

division for a while. So I moved from division

23:01

to division. I was working very hard.

23:03

I kept getting some good opportunities to

23:05

prove myself in a lot of the

23:07

different divisions. And it was a combination

23:09

of a couple of things. The CEO

23:12

and chairman of the company recognized that

23:14

it was a hardworking guy. I was

23:16

trustworthy. I was probably reasonably smart for

23:18

my age, but nowhere near smart enough

23:20

as the people that probably should have

23:22

been doing the job that I was

23:24

doing. But we were growing so fast.

23:27

They just had to put people into

23:29

place. Were you married yet? Yes. I got

23:31

married in 1986. And

23:33

my then wife actually was hired by the same

23:35

company. They hired her right out of school because

23:38

they needed a product manager in the Cooper Sporting

23:40

Goods area. And so they hired her as well.

23:42

I think they hired her for a couple of

23:44

reasons. A, she was smart and had a degree

23:47

in commerce and business from McGill University. And also

23:49

they knew that I was working 100 hours a

23:51

week. That would probably be a better way to

23:53

get my marriage off to a good start if

23:56

my wife was in the same building. Ultimately, didn't

23:58

end very well. Even the business. or

24:00

my marriage, but she worked there as well. And that

24:02

takes us to in that period of up to 1987

24:04

when we acquired Cooper. And

24:08

right after that, I worked at Cooper for

24:10

a while. I was Cooper's representative mostly for

24:12

baseball, like my accounts for the Montreal Expos.

24:14

I did some work with the Toronto Blue

24:17

Jays a little bit with the New York

24:19

Yankees, very little, but almost exclusively with the

24:21

Montreal Expos. Cooper's sporting goods at that point

24:23

in time was the smoke

24:26

sought after bat in Major

24:28

League Baseball. They had a

24:30

bat that was made out of second

24:32

growth ash. Second growth means trees

24:34

are cut down, grown a second time. And

24:37

they were the most sought after

24:39

bats in baseball. And they were

24:41

grown in Pennsylvania. Trees cut down

24:44

and then manufactured in Toronto. And

24:46

so we were able to pick

24:48

and choose the clients that we'd

24:50

have from the Major League Baseball

24:53

teams. And the strategy was to

24:56

furnish those teams that were in

24:58

markets where we also had a

25:00

strong, or wanted to have a

25:02

strong hockey presence. Montreal, Toronto, Boston,

25:05

New York, typically. So the

25:07

New York Mets, New York Yankees, Toronto Blue Jays,

25:09

Montreal Canadiens, Boston, Red Sox. We're the professional teams

25:11

that we cater to. And then there were some

25:14

bats for amateurs and gloves and what have you.

25:16

But that was really fun because I was a

25:18

reasonable baseball fan. I played a lot of baseball

25:20

when I was a kid in addition to hockey.

25:23

I was scouted by the Philadelphia Phillies. I stopped

25:25

playing baseball when I was about 17. I

25:28

played more hockey. But I really enjoyed being

25:30

in that sports world because I've always been

25:32

into sports, hockey and baseball growing up in

25:34

Canada. A little more football when I moved

25:36

to the United States and always followed the

25:39

Buffalo Bills when I lived in Canada. So

25:41

being in that sporting goods world was pretty

25:43

interesting. I had my clients for the team

25:45

or the individual players. And so I had

25:47

some really nice friendships with a lot of

25:49

well-known baseball players. Which was a lot of

25:51

fun. Tim Raines and Gary Carter were good

25:53

friends. So I really enjoyed that. That was

25:56

a buzz because I was going to the

25:58

stadium every day watching the game sometimes. from the

26:00

dugout, the equipment manager of the Montreal Expos, his

26:02

name is John Silverman. He was a terrific guy,

26:04

went out of his way to help me supply

26:06

products even though we had a high demand for

26:08

them. He made sure that I always had entry

26:10

if there was this particular player we wanted to

26:13

get using our equipment. He made the introduction. He

26:15

was great. So I really enjoyed it.

26:17

That was actually quite a lot of

26:20

fun. And then I moved into the

26:22

Infant Products Division. We were the licensee

26:24

for Play School Baby Play School, which

26:26

is P-L-A-Y-S-K-O-O-L, which is a division of

26:29

Hasbro. We manufactured and distributed

26:31

a full line of Infant

26:33

products, pacified, squeezed toys, bibs, bedding, etc.

26:35

on the Play School Baby brand. And

26:38

I moved up as a vice president

26:40

of that division and that division, probably

26:42

doing about $5 million a year quite

26:45

profitably. And I ran that division. Well,

26:47

real quick, if you don't mind, I'll just

26:49

kind of try to cut in a little bit more. Yeah,

26:52

cut in whatever you want. I could talk about this nonstop.

26:54

So don't apologize. Jump right in. I'll

26:56

try my best. Just breathe a little bit in

26:58

between because I try not to interrupt people but

27:00

just from my point of view, did you enjoy

27:02

getting moved in all these other divisions because like

27:04

going to the baby stuff from the sports stuff

27:07

seems like it wouldn't be necessarily as fun or

27:09

basically everything you just said about wanting to be

27:11

in sports and now you're in the baby division.

27:14

Well, I actually loved it. And

27:16

when I think back, I

27:18

loved the intellectual challenge of stepping into

27:20

something where an hour before I knew

27:22

nothing and have to become a really

27:24

quick study. And I really enjoyed it.

27:27

Keep in mind, this is as you

27:29

alluded to this before the internet, you

27:31

had the encyclopedia, right, which was a

27:33

printed version. If you wanted to have

27:35

some compelling learning and good learning, I

27:37

mean, you have to roll up your

27:40

sleeves and get your fingernails dirty and

27:42

really do some grunt work because information

27:44

was not readily available. And I

27:47

really enjoyed that challenge

27:49

of getting up to speed quickly. And obviously,

27:51

I was going to have some shortcomings. I

27:53

wasn't going to be that good, right? I

27:55

mean, I certainly couldn't be in a six

27:58

month period as well versed as someone who

28:00

was doing it for six years or 16

28:03

years, but I was going to outwork

28:05

them and I was going to outlearn

28:07

them, if that's even a word, meaning

28:10

I was just going to do everything

28:12

I can to fill my small brain

28:14

with as much knowledge as possible. I

28:17

found that part always incredibly exciting that

28:19

you could not become an expert by

28:21

any means, that you could become well-versed

28:24

enough to do some damage in something

28:26

that you knew nothing about an hour

28:28

before. That enjoyment and that challenge has

28:31

paid unbelievable dividends in the career that

28:33

I ultimately went into in the M&A

28:35

business because you look at a business

28:37

that I potentially am going to acquire

28:40

and I've bought 13 of them, oftentimes

28:42

I've known nothing about that type of

28:44

business an hour before I was introduced

28:46

to it. That training

28:49

back then in my 20s

28:51

really paid a lot of dividends and I never

28:53

found that to be work. I

28:55

loved that. I believe that I'm

28:57

intellectually curious and love coming

28:59

up to speed quickly in something

29:02

I knew nothing about a short period

29:04

ago. I'm here with our past guest,

29:06

John Alstenson, and he helps people just

29:09

like you find the right franchise opportunity.

29:12

And John, could you maybe just explain what that

29:14

means to all of our listeners? Yeah,

29:16

it's very much like a real estate model and I'm a real

29:18

estate broker but in the franchise world. So

29:20

we represent over 600 different franchise companies. We

29:22

work with all of those that are in gross

29:24

mode. We're looking for great franchise owners to onboard

29:26

and it's entirely free to work with us. Our

29:29

clients never paste the nickel. We get referral fee from

29:31

the franchise or when a placement happens and

29:33

none of that ever gets passed on to

29:35

our clients. So it's a nice clean model

29:37

and we work with entrepreneurs and executives and

29:39

investors across the country. We take them through

29:41

a very streamlined process and introduce them to

29:43

what we would say are the top 10

29:45

or so opportunities in their market. But having

29:47

been a past work franchisor and a multi-brand

29:49

franchisee myself, I've been very blessed to actually

29:51

do more placement than anybody else in the

29:53

country. The last couple of years. Well, great.

29:56

Well, maybe we could just talk about five hot

29:58

franchise opportunities that you're seeing. for 2024?

30:00

Yeah and I'll start

30:03

out with just a little bit of direction. The

30:05

things that people are getting involved in are things

30:07

that I'd say are somewhat recession resilient. You know

30:09

people will always spend on their kids, their pets,

30:11

their health, their homes and businesses will always spend

30:14

in some regard on their services and so just

30:16

thinking about those general trends of what we're seeing

30:18

out there you know I'd say oftentimes these may

30:20

be non-sexy, non-trendy but they're cash flowing, they're Amazon

30:22

resistant, they kind of check all those boxes. Yes

30:25

I'll just briefly hit on five here across different

30:27

industries. The first ones that one it's in the

30:29

B2B space so it's a business that serves other

30:31

companies. This is an example of

30:33

a non-sexy property service business. What they do

30:36

is they provide concrete paving and line-striping, oftentimes

30:38

thinking about parking lots, parking decks, they've got

30:40

national accounts that the franchisees are able to

30:42

draft off of. I'm personally invested in this

30:45

one up in the Minneapolis location but great

30:47

thing here is you don't have to have

30:49

a customer facing retail build-out so it's very

30:52

scalable, very much a variable cost type model.

30:54

All an investment on this one between 150,000 and

30:56

250,000 now that would be for your franchise fee, your startup

31:00

cost and some a couple months of working capital

31:02

all built in and then the financial representation they

31:04

would make is that franchisees average around 750,000 in

31:07

revenue per year with about a 20 to 25

31:09

percent net margin or EBITDA

31:12

on the bottom line. We've had multiple clients

31:14

that have done right around a

31:17

million dollars in that very first year. I'll go

31:19

ahead and hit on one more in the

31:21

property services arena. This is one it's in

31:23

the dumpster space. These guys bring what I

31:25

would say is a white-color approach to a

31:27

blue-color industry, a super fragmented space and these

31:29

guys go in and they bring the technology,

31:31

the marketing, just the differentiation in the market.

31:33

They've been growing really fast, all sorts of

31:35

tax benefits with a heavy cap expensives likeness.

31:37

All an investment here you're around five or

31:39

six hundred thousand depending on how many containers

31:41

you start out with and then they're averaging

31:43

oftentimes a million dollars in the very first

31:45

year building up to two to three million

31:47

in revenue per market with about a

31:49

25 percent bottom line margin. Beauty here is you

31:51

only need two employees to run this business. This

31:54

next business style hit on shifting gears a little bit.

31:56

It's actually one that can be run with two employees

31:58

as well and that's in-home health care. care or senior

32:00

care, if you will. 10,000 people

32:02

turn in 65 every day, people wanting to

32:04

age in their homes even more. There's huge

32:07

demand out there in the market for this

32:09

kind of service, challenges finding

32:11

good caregivers to provide to them. And so

32:13

that's where this company comes in. The founder

32:15

has been in the industry for over 30

32:17

years. He said, hey, there's a better mousetrap

32:19

to be had here. They're able to

32:21

come in and you can run the business with two

32:23

employees. They set up a kind of third party vendor

32:25

relationship model that works as a win-win-win for all three

32:28

constituents. With this one, all in investment, it's on the

32:30

lower end. You're about 125 to 150,000 all in. And

32:32

let me comment that for each of these

32:37

investments, oftentimes people are using SBA loans or

32:39

they're using old retirement plans rolling that over

32:41

through what's called a Rob's program. So don't

32:43

feel like you're putting all cash in. I

32:45

don't want people to come away with that.

32:47

On an average of a $2 million business

32:49

franchisees are doing like 20% bottom line margin.

32:51

So again, really strong return on investment. Moving

32:54

along, I'd say this is probably the hottest

32:56

franchise in America coming into 2024. It's a

32:58

men's health clinic where one of the main

33:00

focuses is TRT, testosterone replacement therapy. It's becoming

33:03

increasingly popular out there. Again, very fragmented market.

33:05

These guys are coming in as now the

33:07

largest player out there. And this is a

33:09

great recurring revenue model because guys come in

33:11

on a regular basis, not every week or

33:13

two. They do offer other services as well,

33:16

but I'd say TRT is the biggest one.

33:18

You're all an investment on this one's around

33:20

300, 350,000 because it is that retail based,

33:24

you know, we are building out the space for their

33:27

revenue. They're averaging 1.8 million a year in their

33:29

initial locations, dropping about 30% to the bottom

33:31

line. Finally, last one I'll hit on is

33:34

just an example of what we're seeing in

33:36

the pet space. And that's mobile pet grooming,

33:38

where they come out to your home or

33:40

office, wherever that your dog is. This is

33:42

a resilient space that's only been growing ever

33:44

since COVID. One of the things

33:46

I love about this business is they offer what's

33:48

called a passive investor model. And that's where the

33:50

franchise or can actually run the business for you.

33:53

And so you really are putting in maybe just

33:55

two calls a month. Let's say it truly is

33:57

passive. Now you pay a management fee, obviously for.

34:00

that. But it's a great, great model for a

34:02

lot of executives and existing business owners as well.

34:04

All in investment on this one, depending on the

34:06

size market you go into, you're somewhere around 200,000

34:09

to 1 million, which I know is a wide range.

34:11

It just depends on the market size and how many

34:13

bands you're starting out with. But then their franchisees are

34:15

averaging 1.5 million a year in revenue,

34:17

and about 250 to 275 on

34:20

the bottom line. So again, you recoup that

34:22

initial investment pretty quickly with a business like

34:24

this. So again, it doesn't require a physical

34:26

storefront. It's a mobile business like a few

34:28

of these that we've talked about. So we'd

34:30

love to take your listeners through these, through any

34:32

of the other 600 that we represent. Of course,

34:34

we always feel strongest about maybe 50 or 60

34:36

of them at any given time, but we'd love

34:38

to be able to help even more of your

34:40

listeners as we have in the past. If you

34:42

come out to franbridgeconsulting.com, you can

34:44

sign up for a free copy of our book,

34:46

Non-Food Franchising. We'd love to send you some downloadable

34:48

links. And then if you're ready to take the

34:50

next step and really dig in and learn more,

34:52

I'd be happy to get on a call with

34:54

any of your listeners often and help them along

34:56

their way. Great. And thank you for sharing those

34:58

five hot franchise opportunities in 2024, John. And

35:01

you did mention, I mean, these are just

35:03

five examples and maybe people listening have not

35:05

even thought about any of those five spaces

35:07

where you could actually start a business. And

35:09

you said you have hundreds of different ones

35:12

where when you jump on that call, you

35:14

can kind of go through that. And so

35:16

people kind of find something that they're interested

35:18

in. So we're going to have multiple future

35:20

franchise segments with John where we'll jump into

35:22

other examples and hopefully answer many

35:25

of the questions that our listeners have

35:27

about franchising. So thank you, John, for

35:29

coming on and sharing. Again, if anyone

35:31

was interested and want to start a

35:33

call with John, go ahead and check

35:36

out franbridgeconsulting.com. And

35:38

it seems like moving into all these different divisions,

35:40

that kind of gave you that opportunity, even though

35:43

it's kind of same company, it's almost like a

35:45

new company, but you've got the basics of understanding

35:47

business, but now you just got to understand the

35:49

details of the products, I guess, that you're selling.

35:51

That's a great summary. And yes, it's exactly

35:53

that, even though it was the same umbrella

35:55

company, outside of seeing some familiar faces in

35:58

the hallways, I mean, the businesses were completely

36:00

distinct and unique from one

36:05

make the move to the Baby Division. Again

36:07

are we still in Montreal? Yes still in

36:10

Montreal. There was a period of time in

36:12

the spring of 1988 and for about eight

36:15

months that I relocated to Toronto but that

36:17

was just going to be temporary because someone

36:20

who had left the business a

36:22

part of the company had moved to Toronto

36:24

so I went there to more familiarize myself

36:26

with some parts of the operation. So I

36:28

lived there for I think it was

36:30

about eight months and we did a lot

36:32

of work over in Asia. And importing and

36:35

there were other people from the company traveling

36:37

from Asia so it just made that part

36:39

of the process a little easier but I

36:41

was considering myself that that stage of my

36:43

life was very short-term and I was back

36:45

in Montreal pretty quickly. Okay I guess you

36:47

want to round up the Baby Division and

36:49

where you went from there? Sure so I

36:51

ran the Baby Division it was very enjoyable

36:53

I was able to bring my best friend

36:55

who was living in Toronto at the time

36:57

we've been friends since break of grade

36:59

one still someone I speak with every

37:01

day he was working in Toronto he was

37:04

more product management at a junior level we

37:06

needed a product manager I hired him to

37:08

come back to Montreal to work which was

37:10

great so he was able to be back

37:13

with his family and his wife so that

37:15

worked out wonderfully. I ran the Baby Division

37:17

for three years and then in 1990 the

37:19

company sharing was actually going through a lot

37:22

of financial difficulty believe it or not from

37:24

this tremendous success. They just bit off more

37:26

than they can chew made some acquisitions that

37:29

proved to be disastrous and Hasbro decided

37:31

to buy back the Baby Division even though

37:33

we're operating under license they wanted to take

37:35

the product in-house and so they brought the

37:37

product in-house what happened to me at that

37:40

stage my life was a massive turning point

37:42

in my life. During the probably

37:44

leading up to about the six

37:46

to twelve months prior to Hasbro buying

37:48

back its division the company sharing industries

37:50

had the rights for Canada for a

37:52

company from the product called Worlds of

37:54

Wonder which had a Teddy Ruxpin doll

37:57

which was a talking doll which gave

37:59

you an idea of technology wasn't really

38:01

talking. It was a cassette that got put

38:03

into the back of the bear and it

38:05

would talk to you. So I mean it

38:07

was a pretty primitive interactive toy but at

38:09

that point in time it was like wow,

38:11

right? And even the company's name was Wow,

38:13

Worlds of Wonder and they had gone public.

38:15

And I bought some shares in Worlds of

38:17

Wonder because they were doing very well. And

38:20

then someone told me about this concept called

38:22

margin in the stock market, right? Where you

38:24

can double the amount of shares that you

38:26

buy for the same amount of money and

38:28

this is how it was presented. Double the

38:30

amount of shares that you buy for the

38:32

same amount of money and you only have

38:34

to pay back the money when you sell

38:36

the stock after the stock goes up. Sounds

38:38

terrific, doesn't it? Right? Sounds pretty

38:40

good, right? The only thing is you don't

38:42

take into account or I didn't take into

38:45

account in my sheer brilliance is what if

38:47

the stock goes down? Well the stock, pardon

38:49

my French, shit the bed. I lost $60,000

38:51

wiped out, wiped out. I was making $72,000

38:54

a year. I lost $60,000. My

38:59

wife was pregnant, first child on the way.

39:02

This was in fall of 1989. My

39:04

daughter was born

39:07

in spring of 1990 so

39:09

my wife was several months pregnant and

39:12

I was in an absolute financial

39:14

mess. And I realized at

39:16

that point that there's only a few choices

39:18

that I had. I didn't think that I

39:21

could make enough money over a long enough

39:23

period of time to pay that money back.

39:26

So what was I going to do? I could either take the

39:28

few dollars that I had left and go to Las Vegas and

39:30

put it on 17 black but I

39:32

don't gamble. I could invest in lottery tickets

39:35

but I don't buy the lotto or I

39:37

can go into my own business because I figured the

39:39

only way that I'm going to get into something where

39:41

I don't have a limit on my upside is in

39:44

my own company. I mean I was working for this

39:46

company making terrific money but there's only so much I

39:48

could make. I mean I wasn't going to go from

39:50

$72,000 to $272,000 in short order

39:54

and so when Play School purchased

39:56

the business, the license back, they wanted me

39:58

to come work there. and I

40:00

wanted to go to my own team so

40:03

I made a deal with them whereby I

40:05

would train their staff to operate the business

40:07

in exchange for getting the Eastern Canadian rights

40:09

to the product. That you personally would

40:11

get it? Yes, that I would personally.

40:14

It would be my business. It would be

40:16

my product for Eastern Canada. They would ship

40:18

it, but I would do all the selling

40:20

and I would retain. We had a profit

40:22

share mostly based on a certain split related

40:24

to commissions that were earned on all the

40:26

sales. I didn't have to take title to

40:29

profits. It was a manufacturer's rep. They were

40:31

okay with that? Have they done that with

40:33

other people before? They've done

40:35

it with other people before

40:37

on a very, very limited

40:39

basis. It was not something

40:41

that they wanted to do. However,

40:43

I was the only person that

40:46

would be able to teach their staff how

40:48

to run the business because I'd been running

40:50

it for three years. Even though they were

40:53

doing the same product in America, not in

40:55

Canada, but dealing with all the customers, I

40:57

was running this division. I had

40:59

terrific relationship with all of the key

41:01

customers in the country. I was personally

41:03

visiting the key customers in the country

41:06

on a regular basis with my sales

41:08

people. The business was running effectively

41:10

and so I had a good

41:12

reputation. I knew every

41:14

product, the manufacturing, the

41:16

costs. I knew all

41:18

the suppliers, the manufacturers

41:20

overseas in Taiwan, Hong

41:22

Kong, Thailand. I

41:25

was the guy running this division. For

41:27

them to put a person into place

41:29

and get them up to speed, I

41:32

was the best teacher to do that for

41:34

them. Even though I knew that I bring

41:36

a lot of value and this was certainly

41:39

leverage that I had, it wasn't presented that

41:41

way. We didn't get into negotiations that way.

41:43

It was from my standpoint, I don't want

41:45

to come work for you. I have no

41:47

interest in doing that. It's nothing personal. I

41:49

just don't want to go work for another

41:51

company. It's not a matter of the money

41:53

that they were prepared to pay me. I've

41:56

got the situation. I want to go into my own

41:58

thing and I'll do it. whatever you need

42:01

me to do to ensure a

42:03

flawless transition to a new person.

42:05

However long you want me to stay there to do that, but

42:07

this is what I want in return. And for

42:10

them, so it was a situation where it worked

42:12

out perfectly for both sides because they put a

42:14

person into place. The name was Nancy Johnsons, terrific,

42:16

who learned for me and run the business. She

42:18

worked for them for many, many years as it

42:20

turns out. I trained her, brought the staff over

42:23

from my company for where I was working for

42:25

Sharon, brought over our whole staff. So those people

42:27

were in place. I trained her, stayed

42:29

there for months at a time to help

42:31

with the transition. And operated out

42:33

of the same city, so I always made

42:36

myself available. And so for doing what was

42:38

best for the business and making

42:40

sure that there was a smooth transition and

42:42

the customers were happy and they knew that

42:44

I was still on board in a sales

42:46

capacity, it was a perfect scenario for both

42:48

parties. And it was never done, as I

42:51

said earlier, it was never done in

42:53

a way of someone holding leverage over

42:55

the other. It was a perfect symbiotic

42:57

relationship. And so after you present

43:00

this to them and they say, yeah, they're

43:02

okay with that, basically you're an

43:04

independent contractor. Is that the idea? And can

43:06

you just walk us through? Did you start

43:08

hiring any support staff or like how is

43:11

it different from when you worked for the

43:13

company before? Yeah, it was quite different. I

43:15

opened up my own company, it was a

43:17

manufacturer's representative and hired some staff.

43:20

Well, how did you afford all that? I borrowed

43:22

my money on credit cards. I had

43:24

a few bucks in the bank, not

43:27

a lot. My then wife

43:29

worked for Hasbro for a number of

43:31

months. And then after she gave birth

43:33

to her daughter, she didn't want to go back

43:35

to work for Hasbro. So she came into work

43:37

part time and I lived cheaply. I generated income

43:39

right from the beginning. Although I'm looking now as

43:41

I'm talking to you and I realized to the

43:43

left of me here is one of my first

43:45

commission checks from a company random or $16 and

43:47

78 cents. That's

43:50

how much I made my first month. And I'll tell you the backstory

43:52

of that. I never cashed a check that's sitting

43:54

here in my office, but as soon as I

43:56

got the line from Hasbro, I immediately went out

43:58

and got a couple of other small lines. Lines

44:00

of credit? I apologize what

44:02

product lines that it could add to the

44:04

mix. Just a few ones, one of them

44:06

included this company, Random Marketing. And so when

44:08

I look at the cost, my office I

44:10

set up, I think it was about $6,000.

44:14

I brought a buddy of mine and him and I

44:16

did all the renovations. There wasn't too much, but we

44:18

did what we had to do. The only thing I

44:21

splurged on was a desk. Believe it or not, in

44:23

that day and age, and you remember I tell you

44:25

a story about my father, my

44:27

brother-in-law ended up taking over that business. I

44:29

bought a desk and there I said, I need

44:31

a really big, good desk. And I ended up spending,

44:34

I think it was like $900 on the desk, all

44:36

wood desk and the glass to go in the top

44:38

cost me $500. That was the only thing

44:40

that I did that was crazy. But

44:43

we furnished up my office, bought used displays

44:45

from companies that had them in their backs

44:47

and their junk. I just knew a lot

44:49

of people in the industry. So they had

44:51

product displays because you have to display your

44:53

product in your showroom and renovated and made

44:55

a decent looking office. I had a few

44:57

bucks in the bank, not much. I think

44:59

there was I think five grand in the

45:02

bank and then bought on credit cards. And

45:04

again, this is we're talking about early 90s. You're

45:07

about 30. This is 1990. February

45:09

1st, 1990 is when my company started.

45:12

You said they let you rep kind of the East Coast

45:14

and you brought up some other product lines. Was

45:17

this all like a baby business or can you give

45:19

us the name of the business and just walk us

45:21

through visually? Because that definitely helped what you just said,

45:23

but if you can give us more detail on what

45:25

it looked like and what the name was and all

45:27

that other stuff. Sure. So I had

45:29

the Play School Baby product. I had this

45:31

company called Random Marketing, which had school supplies

45:33

at one point. It was one of the

45:35

original companies, believe it or not, with Sharon

45:37

Industries. I was doing some service work for

45:40

them, which I'll explain in a second because

45:42

that next piece ties into all of this

45:44

brilliantly and really put some color on everything.

45:47

And then I had one line, I

45:49

think it was Lawrence Goods. They

45:52

were from Winnipeg. They also

45:54

had some consumer products selling

45:56

to the major retailers, more

45:58

novelty type products, school supplies.

46:00

supply related and the

46:02

other line that I took on was called

46:04

Barton B-A-R-T-O-N which was Vancouver, Canada and they

46:06

were in the Halloween business and that was

46:08

run by a dear friend of mine who

46:10

lived in Vancouver who at one point in

46:12

time was my sales rep when I worked

46:15

at Sharon Industries. His name was Ian Downs,

46:17

wonderful guy. So he gave me that line.

46:19

So in short order, I had a couple

46:21

of good lines. No, not good lines. They

46:23

were lines that were generating a little bit

46:25

of money and when you don't have any,

46:27

a little bit is good, right? Yeah, that

46:30

sounds like it. Well, what was the name of

46:32

your company, your storefront? That was DioMo Marketing, I

46:34

called it and the name DioMo stands for doing

46:36

it on my own. I spent a lot of

46:39

time thinking about a company name and the name

46:41

had to be something that to me was meaningful

46:43

but it also had to work in English and

46:45

French because you had the French language issues in

46:47

Quebec and companies. You want to be able to,

46:50

that English speaking people are French speaking people can

46:52

pronounce the name, right? And so I came up

46:54

with DioMo which stands for doing it on my

46:56

own and the derivative of that was there was

46:59

a company in the apparel business a number of

47:01

years before called OMONormacomale. It was on my own

47:03

Normacomale, Normacomale was a designer and I thought that

47:05

was pretty cool and then added the doing it

47:07

on my own because that's really what I was

47:10

doing. I was doing it on my own. I

47:12

couldn't afford a big staff. I had some support

47:14

people that came on board eventually but I was

47:16

doing it on my own and that was the

47:19

goal. I'm going to do this on my own.

47:21

So that's how the name DioMo came about and

47:23

it was also worked well in English and in

47:25

French and the subtext of that was called DioMo

47:27

Marketing because I was marketing products. Yeah

47:30

but would someone look in the phone book

47:32

for DioMo and know that's baby products? Like

47:34

that's what I'm trying to figure out here.

47:37

It didn't matter because I wasn't selling consumers,

47:39

I was selling retailers. Okay, gotcha. But okay

47:41

and you had all this retailer contact information

47:43

from before so you're just cold or I

47:45

guess you're calling people you already know and

47:47

saying, hey, now at least I rep this

47:49

one product on the East Coast. So they

47:51

have to use you for that but then

47:53

you have these other ones as well. Correct,

47:55

that's exactly. You're a quick study, that's great.

47:57

So I apologize if I left out anything

47:59

related. to tying this all together. But yes,

48:01

the products were sold to retailers and mass

48:04

merchants. So in Canada at that time, Zeller's

48:06

was a big retailer. They were like the

48:08

Walmart of Canada. They've gone out of business.

48:10

I hear that they're back in business. There

48:13

was Woolco, which was part of Woolworth, which

48:15

is the English chain. Walmart wasn't even in

48:17

Canada at that point. Target wasn't in Canada.

48:19

Target came in many years later for a

48:21

short period of time. Toys R Us, God,

48:24

am I aging myself because I think everyone

48:26

I've named so far has gone bankrupt. And

48:28

another customer who came on board further

48:30

down the road was Price Club that eventually

48:33

became Costco on all of these independent retailers.

48:35

So the company name was just to have

48:37

a name. It didn't really matter. I had

48:39

the relationships with all the customers and the

48:42

key customers. And for them, I had a

48:44

nice reputation. I always treated

48:46

them well. I always dealt very honestly and upfront

48:48

with them. And so I didn't have any adjustment

48:50

when I was doing the product lines on my

48:52

own. I think most of not all, they were

48:54

very happy to see me go on my own.

48:57

Well, yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit more

48:59

about that because you talked about you and your

49:01

brother-in-law at that time where helping build out a

49:03

space. Did you just rent an office space that

49:05

you're saying and you cleaned it up on the

49:07

inside to set this up? And really, it's just

49:09

kind of an office space. I guess maybe you

49:12

had a partial storefront because you're saying, I guess,

49:14

for people to come in and look at it

49:16

because you mentioned something about that, right? That displays.

49:18

Okay. But other than that, it really didn't matter.

49:20

You didn't have people coming off the street really

49:22

coming in there. That's just for the people that

49:24

you're trying to sell. No, not at all. It

49:26

was a typical office. I was above a

49:28

photo lab, believe it or not. That was

49:30

a time where you brought in a cartridge

49:33

of film and they developed your film into

49:35

photographs, right? Printed photographs. So I was above

49:37

a photo lab, second story, 3333 Cavendish Boulevard,

49:39

which was like not even 10 minutes from

49:41

my house. And more importantly, it was less

49:43

than 10 minutes away from Zeller's head office,

49:46

which was my largest client. And I had

49:48

in there, you came off the elevator or

49:50

walked up the stairs. I was a young

49:52

man, so no problem going up the stairs.

49:54

It always took the stairs. And

49:56

I'm looking at it right now. Is that like a four

49:59

story building or something? like that. It's probably four

50:01

story. I was on 3333 Cavendish

50:04

Boulevard. I think I was sweet 200. Okay.

50:07

Yeah. Google Earth. It's pretty fucking

50:09

amazing. I guess they call it

50:11

Bullcavendish. Now, it's just so crazy.

50:13

Well, Boulevard, it was French. So

50:15

Boulevard Cavendish, Cavendish Boulevard. Yeah. Gotcha.

50:17

Okay. Yeah. It's cool to see

50:19

if anyone feels like Google or

50:21

whatever. You can go to Google

50:23

Street View, see where your business

50:25

started, what, in 1990? February 1st,

50:27

1990. Excuse my

50:31

typing because I'm typing in your 3333 Cavendish

50:34

Boulevard, looking at the front. Yeah. Okay.

50:36

So that was it. Look at that.

50:38

You see Bureau Alouet, which is there's

50:40

an office for rent. There's a close

50:43

to music, which is a music school.

50:45

Lamar, there's a notary on the bottom.

50:47

And then an education center, it says.

50:49

So that was the main entrance. Yeah.

50:52

And how crazy right outside, you've got

50:54

three or four carriages. Yeah. Baby products.

50:56

Right. Yeah, that's right. So if you

50:58

look at that building, I'll tell

51:00

you, you see where it says that

51:03

red sign, a Col de Musique, which is

51:05

a music school, that red sign on the

51:07

right hand side, my office was right above

51:09

that side. Okay. Nice. Third story. So that

51:11

would have been a second. It was three

51:13

and I was right above that. Yeah. And

51:15

then you walked in and the building, they've

51:18

done absolutely nothing to the front of this

51:21

building. I know that's what's great about it

51:23

in case anyone's wondering, it looks like, yeah,

51:25

nothing has been done. There's nothing has been

51:27

done. Right. And you know, it was pretty

51:29

funny at the time because I was renting

51:31

a duplex, which is like a multifamily unit.

51:34

I was renting in Montreal with my then

51:36

wife and the owner of our

51:38

duplex, Roger Fornell was his name. He was

51:40

his wife, Natalie. He was a young man.

51:42

He lived on the bottom. I lived on

51:45

top of my wife. And as it turns

51:47

out, when I came and found this place

51:49

and went to rent it, don't you know,

51:51

his family owned this building. So I felt

51:54

like I was in like, the surface way

51:56

back when, like I was completely indebted to

51:58

this guy. You know, I. Tatum

52:00

rented two places, right? And so he used to ask

52:02

me, how's business? I said, are you asking me? Like

52:05

he's a juggler. He asked me because he really care.

52:07

He asked me because he want to make sure the

52:09

rent gets paid In two places. Yeah or raise rent

52:11

more. You're like, yeah Things

52:14

are going well. You could raise it twice, right?

52:16

He was a good guy and very humble guy

52:18

was really really nice I could hardly believe how

52:20

successful his family was there were big developers and

52:22

owned a lot of real estate So this is

52:24

my joy. Look at that son of a gun

52:27

Yeah, so yeah, you kind of walked us through because

52:29

I think this is almost the coolest part of everyone's

52:32

story is doing their first Business so after you, you

52:34

know finally fix it up You said you splurged a

52:36

little bit on a desk But other than that were

52:38

you calling people a lot because again, I don't know

52:40

if we even had a computer at this point Like

52:42

what was your day-to-day like because again you said you

52:44

worked a lot in the beginning which anyone has to

52:47

do as an entrepreneur I would think to try to

52:49

be successful Correct. So I was

52:51

calling people for cell phones started in Canada.

52:53

I remember July 1st 1987

52:56

and I did have a phone in my car There

52:58

was no such thing as a mobile like that you

53:00

walked around with it was it was in your car

53:02

It was a handset in your car. Everything was done

53:04

by phone or fax Computers the word

53:06

processors and what have you but I mean it

53:09

was nowhere compared to what you like Obviously nothing

53:11

compared to now. I mean, I'd have a laptop

53:13

or and you know that I didn't have a

53:15

computer on my desk I mean

53:17

we had one for word processing Word

53:20

perfect was the program that used to type letters

53:22

as opposed to a typewriter That was the evolution

53:24

from a typewriter if you will You didn't have

53:26

to use liquid paper anymore And if anybody young

53:29

is listening to they don't even know what liquid

53:31

paper is, right? So that was if you were

53:33

using a typewriter you made a mistake There was

53:35

this liquid that you could put on certain letters

53:37

to erase them or block them out and then

53:39

type over them So I had a word processor

53:41

you walked into the office. It was probably about

53:43

900 square feet 800 square feet You

53:46

walk in a very small reception area then

53:48

behind the reception area There was a

53:50

wall and then the showroom which was

53:53

where I put my display cases because

53:55

buyers from the retail Locations would come

53:57

to the office as much as well

54:00

went to see them more but it wasn't

54:05

presenting the new line or new products

54:09

but the far wall was all windows.

54:11

The three walls had display cases which

54:13

were probably seven feet high by four

54:15

feet wide. They were beat up store

54:17

displays from an old pharmacy that had

54:19

pegboard in them. Yeah and I'm trying

54:21

to think maybe this makes more sense

54:24

to people too whenever they're thinking about

54:26

like why you have the displays and

54:28

maybe why people would come by your

54:30

office sometimes too is they couldn't go on the

54:32

internet and just look at a 3D model of

54:34

it. I need to come see

54:36

it to see actually what I'm buying if it's

54:38

a new product. You're saying hence why you would

54:40

even need the products versus if you started today

54:42

you probably wouldn't need all the display stuff like

54:44

you could do it from your house, right? Oh

54:46

correct. Oh absolutely. But

54:48

back then, hey they probably want to make sure you're real, right?

54:51

You can't look at the products online so I need to go

54:53

somewhere to look at it so that's why you would need to

54:55

have that. Oh yeah. So walking through

54:57

that because I guess it's not ignorance but

54:59

you sort of forget how far we've evolved

55:01

with technology. So yeah I mean the new

55:04

line would come in a number

55:06

of new products or it would be if

55:08

you had an ongoing program with a retailer

55:10

and once a year or twice a year

55:12

you're looking at new items. They would come

55:14

into the office, you had physical samples. So

55:17

right now today if I was

55:19

showing a buyer at a retail store

55:21

a new, something as crazy as a new

55:23

squeeze toy, we would just pull it

55:25

up online and show them the 3D view.

55:28

They'd ask me what it's made of and

55:30

price, cost, delivery, end of story. They can

55:32

order it right looking at the computer. It

55:34

wasn't like that. They came in like you

55:36

said they want to make sure you're real.

55:38

I mean they knew I was but they

55:40

came into the showroom. You physically have to

55:42

show the products and understand like the process

55:44

by which you get a sample you would

55:46

design a product however simplistic it was. You

55:49

had to send it the

55:51

drawings of it because you would

55:53

do hand drawings not computer drawings.

55:55

You do hand drawings of the

55:57

design of the product overseas to the

55:59

factory. They would develop the product, they

56:01

would have a number of questions, so they

56:03

sent you questions overnight on a telex machine.

56:06

Now for those listeners who don't know what

56:08

a telex machine is, a telex machine was

56:10

you typed in information like you'd type into

56:12

a computer in a message, it would send

56:14

a similar concept to how a fax is

56:16

sent. There was no visual, it was just

56:19

letters. So you were typing it in individual

56:21

letters and then they would answer you back

56:23

at night. You'd hear the telex ring in

56:25

the morning or you'd come in and there

56:27

would be like 40 feet of

56:30

paper in the supply room with

56:32

answers from all your manufacturers to every

56:34

question. And then they

56:36

didn't understand what it was and then they

56:38

were in Hong Kong, China wasn't manufacturing product

56:41

at that point, it was a lot in

56:43

Hong Kong, Taiwan and then you'd have

56:45

to re-explain it and then after a little bit

56:47

of back and forth then you'd have to go

56:49

overseas at least two to three times a year

56:52

to go to the factory to make sure they're

56:54

making this shitty little rubber duck correctly that's going

56:56

to sell for 80 cents and

56:58

then they would have a hand

57:00

sample made for you. So it

57:02

wasn't like a 3D printer by

57:05

hand someone molded the sample and

57:07

they gave it back to you and you brought it

57:09

back and you presented the rubber duck that you sold

57:11

for 39 cents it was going to retail for 99

57:14

cents and so this process was crazy. What do

57:16

you think about it compared to today? Because today

57:18

you're in the same business, you do the designs

57:20

on the computer, you send it to them to

57:22

get back to design. You don't have to start

57:24

going to Asia to see the factories. I

57:27

used to have to go, when I was importing

57:29

stuff I used to have to go two, three

57:31

times a year because you talk about something being

57:33

lost in translation. My artist, this is a few

57:35

years down the road but my artist who worked

57:37

for me, the graphic designer, he or she would

57:39

design a rubber duck and I send it over

57:41

to Asia with the instructions through the telex machine

57:44

and a fax and a diagram and it came

57:46

back as a bicycle. It's

57:48

like you talk about getting lost in translation so

57:50

none of that could happen, you have to babysit

57:52

the whole process. How

57:54

you said you had a designer who'd help you make

57:57

these things. So you weren't buying products that were already

57:59

made. having ones designed

58:01

as well because if

58:04

you're just buying the same kind of standard

58:06

one from a manufacturer then flipping

58:08

it or these retailers would come into your

58:10

Canadian office and say hey I want this

58:12

but were you making special designed ones as

58:14

well? I was further down the road here

58:16

on Cavendish Boulevard. I have a couple of

58:18

different lines. One of the things that I'll

58:21

get to that answer in a second but

58:23

there's a very important step in between. So

58:25

what was happening with these products these various lines

58:28

that I was carrying you would sit with the

58:30

retailer whether in their yard or their office, your

58:32

office whatever the case may be, put together a

58:34

program that they were going to buy X number

58:37

of products and some of the baby goods where

58:39

you had a full selection of products and pacifiers

58:41

and squeeze toys and juice cups and feeding spoons

58:43

etc. So you'd have a four foot section in

58:45

their store of all your products. Sometimes in the

58:48

pharmacies you'd have a 12 foot section and

58:50

the buyers worked very hard to lay out this

58:52

program and they sent that information to the stores

58:54

and they would order the goods and we shipped

58:56

them to the stores and it was all wonderful.

58:59

Then I would go into the stores and I

59:01

knew this was always a problem and it'd never

59:03

gone away. The product never looked on the store

59:05

shelves like it did in the buyer's office or

59:07

in their planning room or you'd put

59:09

together an ad with one of the retailers

59:11

that you're going to do an ad in

59:13

September and do 25% off all Play School

59:15

Baby products and they had to order up

59:18

more merchandise and we put in an end

59:20

cap as well of some of let's say

59:22

the juice cups or feeding spoons and you

59:24

go into the store and like you don't

59:26

even see the end cap. It either didn't

59:28

get shipped or it's hitting in the back

59:30

room because in Canada you had and still

59:32

have far less people at store level employees

59:34

than you would be accustomed to if you

59:36

walked into a Walmart in America. So it

59:38

was a very frustrating experience because I'd be

59:40

selling this product to the retailer but

59:42

nothing really mattered until it gets sold

59:44

through the cash register because if it

59:47

doesn't sell they want marked down money

59:49

and what have you. So we started

59:51

doing what we called retail merchandising where

59:53

we had people in certain geographical areas

59:55

mostly in our backyard that would go

59:57

into the stores on a regular basis.

1:00:00

paid by us or the supplier, the manufacturer and

1:00:02

make sure that the goods were in order, that

1:00:04

they were on the shelf, that the advertising displays

1:00:06

were in because what would happen is sometimes you

1:00:08

go into the stores there was an actual ad

1:00:10

breaking and the point of purchase display was sitting

1:00:12

in the back room because they didn't have anyone

1:00:14

to haul it out of the back room to

1:00:16

put it on the floor. Sounds crazy but that

1:00:19

was the reality. No and this makes sense because

1:00:21

I've heard of these types of situations before. You

1:00:23

said they aren't displayed correctly and

1:00:25

maybe I finally just figured this out. So if

1:00:27

I go to Lowe's or Home Depot and someone

1:00:29

has something on and they're like, I don't

1:00:32

work for Lowe's, they have these actual vest

1:00:34

on that. Say that. Are they kind of

1:00:36

doing the same thing where they're making sure

1:00:38

that whatever products, whether it's a light fixtures

1:00:40

or whatever are up there displayed

1:00:42

correctly because at the end of the day, they

1:00:45

bought whatever from you, Richard

1:00:47

Parker, but if it's in the back room and

1:00:49

not selling, that actually looks bad on you and

1:00:51

they're not gonna buy more but really the problem

1:00:53

was because you guys weren't putting it on the

1:00:55

shelves. That's exactly it. Perfectly summarized.

1:00:57

So it's not incumbent. I've always told people

1:00:59

when I was in that business when people

1:01:01

used to ask me what do you do

1:01:03

for the... I say I'm in the retail

1:01:05

business and they used to say, oh you

1:01:07

own stores. I said no I sell to

1:01:09

stores but I'm in the retail business because

1:01:11

if I don't do the job at retail,

1:01:14

they're not reordering and so it's

1:01:16

not just a matter of selling

1:01:18

products to the retailer. You have

1:01:20

to help them sell products through

1:01:22

the cash and so this

1:01:24

retail merchandising component, it's a huge

1:01:26

business today. Pharmacy, do you know

1:01:29

the perfect example how often you walk and you

1:01:31

see the person from American Greetings or Carlton Cards

1:01:33

taking care of the greeting card display. Organizing

1:01:37

that. That's not an employee from

1:01:39

CVS or Walgreens. That's the greeting

1:01:41

card manufacturer, their employee going in

1:01:43

or it's a retail merchandising

1:01:45

company is going in and doing the cards

1:01:47

for everybody. And so we had that retail

1:01:49

merchandising on a very small scale but the

1:01:52

more I thought about it was this is

1:01:54

going to be the future. I mean the

1:01:56

stores are employing less

1:01:58

and less people. their

1:02:01

systems, they may think they're

1:02:03

sophisticated but they're not and this is back in

1:02:05

that time, they think that they're getting the right

1:02:08

merchandise to the right locations at the right time.

1:02:10

It wasn't even close. Right,

1:02:13

because there could be a store that

1:02:15

you're selling to that's a lot of

1:02:17

young couples that have new kids versus

1:02:19

if they're doing at the senior citizen

1:02:21

store down the street and they bought

1:02:23

the same amount of product. But

1:02:25

none of it is going to be selling at the senior

1:02:27

store versus it's going to be selling where the young couples

1:02:29

are that have kids. Or if

1:02:31

it was Halloween, again, younger people

1:02:34

or not having the right type

1:02:36

of Halloween merchandise for adults and

1:02:38

you're having more adult type parties.

1:02:40

Right? So there was a uniqueness

1:02:42

to most stores. Not that granular, but

1:02:44

there was a large element of that

1:02:46

existed. Or someone comes in who runs

1:02:48

a daycare in the area and buys

1:02:50

out every pacifier and then the stores

1:02:52

out of pacifiers till the next shipment comes

1:02:55

in on their automatic replenishment like in

1:02:57

a month from now. And the systems

1:02:59

that most of the retailers had at

1:03:01

that point, even though they were pretty

1:03:03

advanced for that time, they were complete

1:03:05

shit. Like they really didn't reflect. They

1:03:07

like to tell you that they can tell you

1:03:09

they can get goods into the warehouse in Montreal,

1:03:11

for example, and shipment to all their stores in Vancouver

1:03:14

in seven days. And the buyers used to tell me that,

1:03:16

I had a very nice relationship with the guys. I said,

1:03:18

you know what, I'll tell you what, see this box of

1:03:20

144 coated feeding spoons? I'll

1:03:24

send it to your warehouse today and if you get

1:03:26

this to your store in Vancouver in a week, I'll

1:03:28

go in there and I'll eat all of them. Like

1:03:30

it's just not happening. Right? It wasn't even close. So

1:03:33

the retail merchandising was a terrific service because what it

1:03:35

did was the following. It allowed the manufacturer to make

1:03:37

sure they had the right product in the right stores

1:03:39

at the right time. And

1:03:42

the manufacturer paid for it. They didn't charge

1:03:44

the retailer. So we were doing it very

1:03:46

localized and then there was a company doing

1:03:49

something similar in the East Coast of Canada

1:03:51

and convinced them to join forces. I couldn't

1:03:53

afford to buy their company. I knew the

1:03:55

owner, young guy as well. They had a

1:03:58

pretty good technology for that time. It

1:04:00

was manual but they printed out every

1:04:02

product that we were representing or doing

1:04:05

service for in every location We established

1:04:07

a min and max with the minimum

1:04:09

they could have of each product and

1:04:11

the maximum based on sales and

1:04:14

for that time was pretty advanced

1:04:16

and so brought them on board

1:04:18

and Subsequently acquired a

1:04:20

couple of other companies in similar businesses

1:04:23

so that in pretty short order in

1:04:25

about a year or so I had

1:04:27

a company that had this retail merchandising

1:04:30

footprint coast to coast from Newfoundland

1:04:32

to Vancouver Island and 200

1:04:34

people working for us at what point would

1:04:36

you say that was like what year? 9192

1:04:40

and we were servicing at that point I

1:04:42

mean we ended up getting it up to

1:04:44

about five thousand stores that we were servicing

1:04:46

on a monthly basis So in two years

1:04:48

you basically went from this place off Cavendish

1:04:50

Boulevard to having how many people work for

1:04:52

you There were 200 people that

1:04:55

were working for us doing the retail merchandising

1:04:57

from the shitty little business above the music

1:04:59

store And what was then well now the

1:05:01

music stores the photo lab then where you

1:05:03

see where the education Hanka is that was

1:05:05

a photo lab so yes

1:05:07

that went from me and my

1:05:09

then wife and one other administrative

1:05:11

person to 200 people across

1:05:13

the country I guess I'm just trying

1:05:16

to wrap my arms around like how you're able

1:05:18

to do this because a you're like trying to

1:05:20

run your Own business first, but then when you're

1:05:22

trying to acquire a business as well or you

1:05:24

know merge quote unquote or whatever make partnerships With

1:05:26

these other businesses how you're able to do that

1:05:29

in that short a time a flying by the

1:05:31

seat of my pants Number one

1:05:33

number two it really became obvious

1:05:35

to me that that retail Merchandising

1:05:38

is gonna be like my point

1:05:40

of difference Meaning if

1:05:42

I was going in to sell major

1:05:45

retailer Zeller's shoppers drug large junk with two

1:05:47

pharmacies Whoever it may be and I was

1:05:49

trying to sell in my Play School Baby

1:05:51

product or my Halloween product or my other

1:05:53

novelties Whatever the case may be I had

1:05:55

an immediate competitive advantage because I could provide

1:05:57

the service to them and they knew how

1:06:00

valuable it was. And this service where Well,

1:06:20

we were doing it on a very

1:06:22

small basis. A number of companies had

1:06:24

sales staff that did this type of

1:06:27

work, but they always did it for

1:06:29

themselves. So my brother worked for a

1:06:31

company called Carmen jewelry. He was a

1:06:34

sales rep, small territory, but he had

1:06:36

to do retail servicing in his stores

1:06:38

that he was responsible selling to.

1:06:40

So there were companies that did

1:06:43

this type of stuff or this

1:06:45

type of work, but it was

1:06:47

their employees only doing their product.

1:06:49

And it wasn't across

1:06:52

the board. There were just pockets of

1:06:54

companies that offered this right? Jewelry was

1:06:56

a good example because if you sold

1:06:58

a jewelry display like that thing looked

1:07:00

like dogs breakfast like an hour after

1:07:02

the stuff got set up people taking

1:07:04

chains and putting them somewhere else. It

1:07:06

was like all over the place. So

1:07:09

this concept wasn't revolutionary, but nobody

1:07:11

was doing third party servicing where a service

1:07:13

company can go to a whole series of

1:07:15

suppliers that are retailing and say, we will

1:07:17

do your servicing for you. We will do

1:07:19

store level servicing in every store across Canada.

1:07:22

So I had a company, one company we

1:07:24

were doing work for is a perfect example

1:07:26

to your question. Goody brushes

1:07:28

and comb. Goody was a supplier

1:07:30

of ladies hair brushes, comb, scrunchies,

1:07:33

berets and bobby pins and that

1:07:35

type of stuff. Ladies hair care.

1:07:37

They typically had a four to

1:07:39

eight foot section in mass merchandisers

1:07:41

and pharmacies across the country. They

1:07:44

had some service retail

1:07:47

merchandising service being done

1:07:49

by their own staff

1:07:51

in probably 40% of

1:07:53

their stores. So you

1:07:55

take a chain like I'm trying to get just

1:07:57

the exact numbers and my numbers may be off

1:07:59

but I think. you'll understand

1:08:01

conceptually. A drugstore

1:08:03

chain like Shopper's Drug Mart may

1:08:05

have had a thousand stores across

1:08:07

Canada. Well, Goody Hairbrush and

1:08:09

Combs, they could provide service to

1:08:11

400 stores, but

1:08:14

they had a store in Northwest Territories or

1:08:16

70 miles north of

1:08:18

Edmonton, Alberta, where there's nobody. So we

1:08:20

went in and said, we could service

1:08:22

100% of the stores, but

1:08:25

what we did was ingenious. It

1:08:27

pissed a lot of people off, but it

1:08:29

was ingenious. We didn't go

1:08:32

to Goody to convince them to

1:08:34

let us service. We went to

1:08:36

Shopper's Drug Mart or Jean-Coutre pharmacies

1:08:38

or Zellers. We went to the

1:08:40

retailer and said, hey, you got

1:08:42

all these companies selling products to

1:08:44

your stores. They're only servicing roughly

1:08:46

30, 40, 50% of the stores. We

1:08:50

can provide service to 100% of your stores

1:08:53

every month for all of these products. So

1:08:55

why don't you go to the supplier and

1:08:57

tell them, hey, Mr. Goody, we don't need

1:09:00

you servicing our stores anymore with your own

1:09:02

personnel because you're only covering 40% of the

1:09:04

stores. We have a

1:09:06

company, it's a third-party company. You have to hire them

1:09:08

to service the stores because they're gonna service 100% of

1:09:10

the stores. The

1:09:12

goodies of the world were pretty pissed off at us,

1:09:15

but they didn't have a choice because if Goody

1:09:17

didn't do it, their competitor would say, sure. Yeah,

1:09:20

so it seems like it makes sense. So yeah,

1:09:22

I guess we're looking at a transition from when

1:09:24

you started and how quickly it kind of evolved

1:09:26

to this, it seemed like it was almost immediate

1:09:28

where you just realized, hey, I can make more

1:09:30

money or it makes more sense to rep lots

1:09:33

of different products and I guess put people in

1:09:35

the stores to make sure they're there than it

1:09:37

does to have my smaller business where I'm only

1:09:39

repping so many lines of products and am I

1:09:42

understanding that correctly? You're very close because

1:09:44

really the overarching concept to all of

1:09:46

this was I knew that if I'm

1:09:48

gonna sell stuff to the retailers, if

1:09:50

that stuff isn't on the floors, who's gonna end

1:09:53

up paying the price? They're gonna come back to

1:09:55

me and say, you know that ad program that

1:09:57

we did with all those juice cups and coated

1:09:59

feeding smoothies? sales were terrible. You

1:10:01

have to take this stuff back or give us

1:10:03

markdown money. Well it did

1:10:05

poorly because it wasn't even on the floor. So

1:10:08

to me it was I'm only

1:10:10

helping my business by doing this.

1:10:12

I'm building a massive moat against

1:10:15

competitors plus the other thing was

1:10:17

if I wanted to go get

1:10:19

another line of product to represent

1:10:22

and someone was already doing it, my pitch was

1:10:24

I bring you the sales,

1:10:26

the connections to all the retailers and a

1:10:28

retail servicing business. So it was very some

1:10:30

people would say you know as ancillary sales

1:10:33

is all since that's us right? It worked

1:10:35

really well. So we built that business to

1:10:37

substantial before that million dollars and sickeningly

1:10:39

profitable and continue to do it and

1:10:41

improve. We got better, we weren't perfect.

1:10:43

You know you're managing a lot of

1:10:45

people you have to make sure that

1:10:47

everybody goes to all the stores, they're

1:10:49

filling in the reports, they're doing the

1:10:51

work, different projects. Some people were doing

1:10:54

a one-time thing where they wanted to

1:10:56

make sure a display was up, other

1:10:58

times we're doing monthly service to a

1:11:00

stable group of products. So we built

1:11:02

a nice business and subsequent to that

1:11:04

I purchased a company that was designing

1:11:06

infant products. I started

1:11:08

to believe that I've got to get

1:11:10

away from the original business of Play

1:11:12

School because my model of representation

1:11:14

was not something they had across the

1:11:16

board and I felt that if there

1:11:18

was going to be a change in

1:11:20

ownership I should be prepared to start

1:11:22

you know if that happened at some

1:11:25

point. I acquired this with a partner

1:11:27

and we started designing infant products not

1:11:29

competitive to Play School at all but

1:11:31

complementary and some of the products

1:11:33

that they had intimated that they were

1:11:35

going to go out of that. We

1:11:37

started manufacturing overseas and importing them and

1:11:39

designing and importing them and that was

1:11:41

more in soft goods like bibs, receiving

1:11:44

blankets which is like the the puke blanket

1:11:46

you know you put on your shoulder when

1:11:48

you're burping your kid called the receiving blanket.

1:11:50

It's a pretty funny name because all you're

1:11:52

receiving is the kids vomit and bibs not

1:11:54

pacifiers or any competitive type products like that.

1:11:57

We're doing some licensed goods so we're doing

1:11:59

Disney type receiving blankets and sleepers for a

1:12:01

certain category. Well how long until you got into

1:12:03

that? Do you remember what year before you started

1:12:05

to kind of making your own products? Probably

1:12:08

about 1993-94. The biggest impact happened in 1992 when

1:12:14

a friend of mine who I'd worked

1:12:16

with years before at Sharon Industries, he worked

1:12:18

in Toronto, very nice guy's name was Jeff

1:12:21

McCarthy, a very bright guy. There was a

1:12:23

company in Canada and I'll disclose the name

1:12:25

to you in a second but there's

1:12:27

a product being sold in Canada by a company

1:12:29

called Irwin Toy which I think probably was the

1:12:31

oldest toy company in Canada. They

1:12:33

were distributing a product and my

1:12:36

friend Jeff was trying to

1:12:38

convince the company which was a Japanese

1:12:41

and US based company that Irwin Toy

1:12:43

wasn't doing a bang-up job for them.

1:12:45

That company happened to be Sega Video

1:12:48

and that was at

1:12:50

the time where Nintendo had about 80% market

1:12:52

share, Sega had 20 and he

1:12:55

wanted to do a pitch. He was going

1:12:57

to do a pitch to Sega of America

1:12:59

and Sega Japan that Sega should open up

1:13:01

its own offices in Canada and

1:13:04

not go through a distributor which they were

1:13:06

doing with Irwin Toy at the time. So

1:13:09

he needed to get an understanding of

1:13:11

what was happening at retail at the

1:13:13

stores across the country because Sega of

1:13:15

America was a massive company. Irwin was

1:13:17

much smaller. They were in Canada and

1:13:19

Sega of America really had no clue

1:13:21

what was going on at store level

1:13:23

in Canada but Jeff felt that they

1:13:25

may be primed to shift their business

1:13:27

model from going through a distributor to

1:13:29

opening up their own offices and having

1:13:31

their own staff in Canada but Jeff

1:13:33

needed some store level information and lo and

1:13:35

behold I had 200 people across the country

1:13:38

who were going at this source. So Jeff

1:13:40

was a buddy of mine and I really

1:13:42

wanted to see him get this product line

1:13:44

so I said, hey look I'll tell you

1:13:47

what you tell me the surveys that you

1:13:49

need, tell me the stores that you need

1:13:51

visited, what questions you need answered, whether you

1:13:53

need pictures, whatever the case may be for

1:13:56

your presentation. I'll do the whole thing for

1:13:58

you for free. of mine,

1:14:00

right? I don't want you to see him get

1:14:02

this job running Sega of Canada." I said, the

1:14:04

only thing is, if you do in fact get

1:14:06

it, I just want to have

1:14:08

the rights to the product for Eastern Canada.

1:14:10

And keep in mind, what I told this, I

1:14:12

didn't even know what the hell it was.

1:14:14

He said, it's a video game. Okay, but I

1:14:17

knew nothing more than that. I'm not a

1:14:19

video or a player or whatever. So it gives

1:14:21

me the assignment, what he needs done. We

1:14:23

had hundreds and hundreds of stores visited where Irwin

1:14:25

was allegedly selling product. They were doing a

1:14:27

shit job. Product wasn't in the stores. Other

1:14:30

stores didn't have anything. Merchandising wasn't done right.

1:14:32

We had pictures that were taken with an

1:14:34

old style Polaroid camera where you click the

1:14:36

button, the picture came out, you waited like

1:14:38

60 seconds for it to develop. You wrote

1:14:40

the store number, Zeller's number 235, Heimas Boulevard,

1:14:42

Point Clair, Quebec. All these 200 people aggregated

1:14:44

all this information, sent it to us, sorted

1:14:47

it out, gave it to Jeff with this

1:14:49

whole report. It was a terrific report. I

1:14:51

think I spent about 10 grand at that

1:14:53

time in wages to get this for him.

1:14:55

And my agenda was nothing more than to

1:14:57

see him get the line. Like I didn't

1:14:59

know, again, please understand, I knew nothing about

1:15:01

this. Like I didn't know how big they

1:15:03

were, what they were. It's not like you

1:15:06

just do quick background information like you can

1:15:08

today. But if you're looking, if he Jeff has

1:15:10

it, it's probably pretty good. And I'll add another

1:15:12

line to my bag of tricks. Right? And that

1:15:14

was the end of it. I had the report

1:15:16

done, sent it off to Jeff. And

1:15:18

this was probably, I guess

1:15:21

it's like 1990, again, 1992 springtime. And I

1:15:23

sent me information and

1:15:27

think about it. It was actually winter when I

1:15:29

think about it. I'll tell you why. Because I

1:15:31

got a call, I was on vacation. I called

1:15:33

into the office and any message said, Jeff McCarthy

1:15:36

called and I still didn't have a portable cell

1:15:38

phone. Jeff McCarthy called and said, can you call

1:15:40

him pretty quick? Sure. And I'm just thinking like

1:15:42

maybe something's wrong, like personal or just buddies or

1:15:45

whatever it was. So I called him up in

1:15:47

Florida. He said, like verbatim. I got Sega, we

1:15:49

got to go to Vegas. Like, what are you

1:15:51

talking about? Oh, yeah, that thing that's that thing,

1:15:53

right? Okay. They want us in Vegas for presentation.

1:15:56

I got the line. You're gonna do it Eastern Canada.

1:15:58

Oh, this. Okay, so we'll go to Vegas. He said

1:16:00

you got to go next week because there's a consumer

1:16:02

electronic show and I ended up getting

1:16:04

the line for Sega for Eastern Canada that was

1:16:06

at the point when when I got the line

1:16:08

Nintendo had 80% market share Sega had 20 Sega

1:16:11

just came out with a Sega Genesis now

1:16:13

keep in mind. This has nothing to do with

1:16:16

me This was just dumb luck Right

1:16:18

my repping business went from like two

1:16:21

and a half million dollars in revenue

1:16:23

to 30 million dollars in

1:16:25

a year Because Sega within a year

1:16:27

of that flipped the market they introduced

1:16:29

that Sega Genesis I don't know if

1:16:31

you remember those old commercials Sega, right

1:16:33

and my business exploded and again, it

1:16:35

was just dumb luck So

1:16:37

it seems like everything went well up to this point

1:16:39

So when did eventually did you stop because I remember

1:16:41

you said earlier that like a 33? I

1:16:44

believe you moved away from Canada. So

1:16:46

that's 35 and so Sega was doing

1:16:48

great I brought in some sales people

1:16:50

had a little more staff still working

1:16:52

like a maniac but was making some

1:16:54

serious money And bought a nice

1:16:56

house in Montreal we had that Asian trade-in

1:16:59

company and One of the

1:17:01

original companies that had some of those novelties

1:17:03

that I was representing I bought one of

1:17:05

their lines and was humming along and

1:17:08

when I signed the contract with Sega to do repping

1:17:10

I've been through this dance before I knew what was

1:17:12

going to happen because typically what happens is especially Little

1:17:15

Canadians dealing with these big American companies Eventually if

1:17:17

you start making too much money as a manufacturer's

1:17:19

rep and or distributor, they want to take you

1:17:21

out of the equation So I had it built

1:17:23

into my contract and that was an understanding with

1:17:25

Jeff McCarthy from the beginning I would say yeah

1:17:27

that if they ever convert any of my accounts

1:17:29

to house accounts that they have to buy me

1:17:32

out of my contract because I know It was

1:17:34

inevitable you start making too much money and they

1:17:36

forget that you started off from the beginning

1:17:38

help build it Although I tell you I could

1:17:40

have sent an infant to go get orders for

1:17:42

Sega. He was just on fire Everything was on

1:17:45

allocation. We never had enough goods to fill to

1:17:47

demand and nothing attached to my skill set zero

1:17:49

Like I take zero credit for it This is

1:17:51

one of those cases where I just have it

1:17:54

to be in the right place at the right

1:17:56

time and sure enough in about was 1996 Sega

1:18:00

bought me out. I was making more money

1:18:02

the entire senior executive staff of Sega combined

1:18:04

and so they bought me out. But you

1:18:06

still had other lines of business, right? Yeah,

1:18:09

I had other lines and I decided at

1:18:11

that point I was going to move to

1:18:13

Toronto because Zeller's who was one of my

1:18:15

largest clients, Price Club which subsequently became Costco

1:18:17

and a couple other companies but Zeller's was

1:18:20

my largest account. They moved to Toronto because

1:18:22

of the language issue in Quebec and I

1:18:24

was thinking about moving to Toronto and just

1:18:26

continuing the business. I made a good score

1:18:28

related to Sega and then I started

1:18:31

thinking about well yeah maybe I don't want to

1:18:33

keep doing this but kids were young, the three

1:18:35

kids at that point and maybe it was time

1:18:37

to make a move I considered maybe maybe I'll

1:18:39

move to Burlington, Vermont which was 90 minutes away,

1:18:42

nice college town, still 90 minutes away from family.

1:18:44

Maybe I'll do that I could still continue the

1:18:46

same business or parts of it or despite the

1:18:48

fact that I was an avid hockey fan and

1:18:50

hockey player said, you know maybe I'm just gonna

1:18:53

move to somewhere warm. Financial is in pretty good

1:18:55

shape and this was in a short period of

1:18:57

time keeping in mind that I went into business

1:18:59

owing $60,000 barely with one

1:19:02

national above the water. This is only six years later

1:19:04

and I decided to sell the businesses.

1:19:07

I had sold Sega, I gave the

1:19:09

merchandising business to my brother who was

1:19:11

a small partner in the Quebec operation.

1:19:13

I gifted him that business, I had

1:19:15

a couple other partners in that business

1:19:17

they kept carrying on and I moved

1:19:19

to Florida. Alright, thank you everybody for

1:19:21

joining us a part two with here with Richard Parker

1:19:24

again and we paused the interview because we want to

1:19:26

make sure we got all the

1:19:28

information we could out of this guy. We've

1:19:30

had fantastic stories so far and we just

1:19:32

left off where you had moved to Florida

1:19:34

it was 1996. So do you

1:19:37

want to go ahead and pick it up from there

1:19:39

Richard? Sure and thank you and I appreciate you giving

1:19:41

me all this time to share the story and I

1:19:43

appreciate your questions. So back in 1996 I decided to

1:19:45

move to Florida

1:19:47

after I mentioned it sold one of my

1:19:49

main businesses back to Sega. Still had a

1:19:51

couple of other interests and the decision was

1:19:54

really whether or not I was going to

1:19:56

potentially move to Toronto, Canada where most of

1:19:58

the head office had relocated because of the

1:20:00

language issues that were going on in Quebec.

1:20:02

That also given consideration to moving to Burlington,

1:20:04

Vermont, believe it or not, which was only

1:20:06

about an hour and a half from Montreal.

1:20:08

It spent a lot of time fishing around

1:20:10

the area. I found it to be a

1:20:12

nice little town and close enough to family

1:20:14

back in Montreal, an hour and a half

1:20:16

drive, so it was nothing. And the third

1:20:19

one was related to Florida because I was

1:20:21

not a winter guy even though I'm a

1:20:23

big ice hockey player and fan. I just

1:20:25

didn't want to live the rest of my

1:20:27

life shuttling snow and my kids at that

1:20:29

point were pretty young and figured if I'm

1:20:31

going to make a significant move out of

1:20:33

the country to somewhere like Florida, it would

1:20:35

make sense when they're really, really young. And

1:20:37

Florida was also a case where my parents

1:20:40

visited regularly. Other people from Montreal was a

1:20:42

nice winter destination so I knew I would

1:20:44

be able to see friends and family on

1:20:46

a regular basis and it was a one

1:20:48

short flight from Florida to Montreal. So all

1:20:50

those things weighing into it were really important

1:20:52

and then from a financial standpoint I was

1:20:54

really in good shape. I was young so

1:20:56

I certainly wasn't going to retire and had

1:20:58

a few bucks but I had a lot

1:21:00

of runway ahead of me so I never thought

1:21:03

the concept of retiring was not even in my

1:21:05

head. I just mostly from a standpoint that I

1:21:07

enjoyed working and so it's not anything that I

1:21:09

even considered at that point. Yeah but real quick

1:21:11

at that point, did you have enough money where

1:21:13

you didn't have to work again? I was just

1:21:16

curious like how much money that you actually end

1:21:18

up like having when you move down to Florida.

1:21:20

I was in great shape financially. Could I

1:21:23

have stopped working completely? Given the fact that

1:21:25

I was 35 there were still a lot

1:21:27

of things that I wanted to do. If

1:21:29

I wanted to really adapt a nice simple

1:21:31

lifestyle then yes I could have but certainly

1:21:33

it was not anywhere in my plans and

1:21:35

I still had in my mind so much

1:21:37

that I had to do conquer

1:21:40

and things that I wanted to accomplish and my

1:21:42

kids were young and that comes

1:21:44

with a whole different set of bills and

1:21:46

circumstances. And I also knew that even though

1:21:48

I was only 35 at the time I'd

1:21:50

seen friends of my parents who had

1:21:52

retired or retired early and look bored out

1:21:54

of their minds and one doesn't really know

1:21:57

what comes up. And then the other part

1:21:59

of it which really weighed into my

1:22:01

equation even to

1:22:19

South Florida and I take it easy for a

1:22:21

while. I really don't have any network if I

1:22:23

want to get back into things. The

1:22:26

other part of the equation was one of

1:22:28

the factors that weighed into my decision was

1:22:30

there was an opportunity in Florida to

1:22:32

get involved in which was a pretty

1:22:34

interesting company at that point. It was

1:22:36

in the golf business, in the video

1:22:38

golf business which I found quite compelling

1:22:40

and that certainly weighed into my decision

1:22:42

heavily. So I knew that relocating and

1:22:44

having something that I'd be involved in

1:22:46

right from the get-go, all those factors

1:22:48

combined weighed into the decision. What

1:22:50

did your wife think about moving? Well,

1:22:53

it's now my then wife but

1:22:56

she was very supportive. I mean it

1:22:58

was a much more difficult scenario for

1:23:00

her than me. When we moved,

1:23:02

the next day I was in business. I

1:23:04

had had something lined up and I got

1:23:06

up the next day and went to work.

1:23:09

Whereas we had three young children at the

1:23:11

time, she was really in

1:23:13

a brand new situation. No friends, no

1:23:15

family, no infrastructure around her or support

1:23:17

system. So the adaptation period was infinitely

1:23:19

more difficult for her than for me.

1:23:22

I got up and it was just

1:23:24

the scenery was different but I was

1:23:26

going to work and for her it

1:23:28

was much more difficult. But I guess

1:23:30

yeah for you, you don't have shovel snow

1:23:32

anymore so you're looking all the upside there but that

1:23:35

is something to consider when you're making a big move

1:23:37

like this. I guess looking back so hopefully anyone who's

1:23:39

listening now can kind of think about that. I don't

1:23:41

know if you have any other thoughts about that for

1:23:43

anybody else who's thinking about making a major move with

1:23:45

a spouse and trying to figure that all out. Yeah

1:23:48

well in hindsight I do have a lot of

1:23:50

advice because I didn't do it well. So

1:23:53

if you're going to make that type of move,

1:23:56

it's critically important to make sure

1:23:58

your family spouse depending on

1:24:00

the age of your children. My kids were

1:24:02

very, very young. My eldest was six. So

1:24:04

for them, it didn't matter. They were going

1:24:06

to the beach. Everything was exciting. Disney was

1:24:09

two and a half hours away. So for

1:24:11

them, even though there was a little bit

1:24:13

of adjustment, it wasn't substantial. Kids are very

1:24:15

adaptable, very pliable, and very resilient. So for

1:24:17

them, there was really nothing. But for

1:24:19

my ex-wife, my wife at

1:24:21

the time, now my ex-wife, I think

1:24:23

individuals were going to make that type

1:24:26

of move. One of the

1:24:28

things that I would... well, there's a

1:24:30

number of things, but certainly one of

1:24:32

the things that I would make sure

1:24:34

that I would do, having to do

1:24:36

it all over again, would be for

1:24:38

the individual that's moving and has a

1:24:40

destination as far as a job or

1:24:42

career in place, you have to be

1:24:44

very sensitive to the other party and

1:24:46

what they are suddenly faced with. And

1:24:48

so part of that is making

1:24:50

sure that you have a

1:24:52

good, especially good work-home life

1:24:55

balance. The other thing is

1:24:57

probably when I say work-life balance, that

1:24:59

extends more than just when you get

1:25:01

home every day. It's also weekends and

1:25:04

evenings to make sure there's time to

1:25:06

check in and check in in a

1:25:08

meaningful way to make sure the other

1:25:10

party isn't struggling or if they are

1:25:13

to deal with

1:25:15

that. I'm a very solution-oriented

1:25:17

individual and problem-solver and probably

1:25:19

not that I was much more so

1:25:22

in my younger days, but was maybe

1:25:24

a little more or little impatient. And

1:25:26

so I didn't do an adequate or

1:25:29

good job of addressing

1:25:31

what my wife at the time was going

1:25:33

through. To me, it just seemed solution-oriented. If

1:25:35

you're having trouble adapting, you're not sure where

1:25:37

to go, we're friends, here's the things that

1:25:39

you can do, you know, x, y, z,

1:25:42

here's all the things that you can do

1:25:44

versus sitting back, shutting my mouth and really

1:25:46

understanding what the problems were. And so my

1:25:48

advice to anybody who's going to make

1:25:51

that type of move is whoever

1:25:53

is the individual that's more settled

1:25:55

and that's typically the individual who's

1:25:57

got a career or something later.

1:26:00

out for him or her at that point in time

1:26:03

there's less adaptation to really be

1:26:05

very mindful thoughtful to the other

1:26:07

party and make sure that there's

1:26:09

a really good adaptation period. Well,

1:26:12

thank you for those thoughts. I mean, I would have

1:26:14

done probably exactly what you did. I think a lot

1:26:16

of people listening are solution oriented people. So

1:26:18

what now I got to figure out the

1:26:21

next solution instead of like being there emotionally

1:26:23

maybe for our spouse or whatever. So yeah,

1:26:25

correct. Okay. And you said the

1:26:27

very next day that you were pretty certainly you

1:26:29

were starting your new job. And you

1:26:31

started doing business acquisitions or trying to

1:26:33

help people with those like what were you doing

1:26:35

right when you moved down to Florida? Okay. So

1:26:38

when I moved down to Florida, got involved in a

1:26:40

golf venture in the video golf business, which was

1:26:42

a very interesting venture. We short lived, we were

1:26:45

a startup and we'd raised quite a bit of

1:26:47

capital. But one of the things

1:26:49

back in my mind was, would take you

1:26:51

back a little bit prior to relocating to

1:26:53

Florida while I was completing a number of

1:26:56

the acquisitions that we talked about earlier in

1:26:58

Canada. I had started to get a reputation

1:27:00

of someone who was getting pretty good at

1:27:02

this, right? Buying businesses, selling

1:27:04

businesses. So I was

1:27:07

in an informal way providing

1:27:09

some consulting and advisory to

1:27:11

friends, family and other people who just

1:27:13

got referred to me if someone who

1:27:15

had a bit of know-how related to

1:27:18

mergers and acquisitions. So parallel to what

1:27:20

I was doing in Canada, running my

1:27:22

own business, I was helping some individuals

1:27:24

look at some businesses that they were

1:27:26

potentially going to acquire and helping them

1:27:28

along the way. So back in my

1:27:30

mind, after I was in Florida for

1:27:32

a little while and the golf venture

1:27:34

was not turning out as I had

1:27:36

hoped, realized that the world of M&A,

1:27:38

it would be a very good environment

1:27:40

to get busy in that particular

1:27:42

sector because America obviously market

1:27:45

10 times the size of Canada

1:27:47

and especially in South Florida where

1:27:50

there's just a huge array of

1:27:52

small businesses, service type businesses, not

1:27:54

a lot of manufacturing, but it's

1:27:56

a very fertile ground for buying

1:27:58

and selling businesses. I

1:28:00

was involved in the golf business. I was

1:28:02

working for a company that used to produce

1:28:04

video golf lessons. It was a

1:28:07

very interesting technology. We'd film golfers addressing

1:28:09

and swinging their golf club. We would

1:28:11

pinpoint their club and body position at

1:28:14

12 different positions and then that information

1:28:16

was entered into a computer and it

1:28:18

got married up with some pre-recorded commentary

1:28:21

from Greg Norman, the golfer who was

1:28:23

the number one golfer in the world

1:28:25

at that time and ultimately what it

1:28:27

produced was a side-by-side video where you

1:28:30

the golfer appeared on the screen side-by-side

1:28:32

with Greg Norman. He gave you a

1:28:34

golf lesson. The technology was wild especially at

1:28:36

the time. It wasn't simple by any means.

1:28:39

It was very advanced but conceptually it's easy

1:28:41

to understand because if you were swinging a

1:28:43

golf club and we could pinpoint your club

1:28:45

head and body position throughout your golf swing,

1:28:47

well there's only certain things that you could

1:28:50

be doing right or wrong at each of

1:28:52

the different club head positions. When you stand

1:28:54

there addressing the ball, either your stance is

1:28:56

open, it's closed or it's correct. When your

1:28:58

club head comes back, it's either coming back

1:29:01

correctly along the proper line or it's inside

1:29:03

or outside. So we would identify these

1:29:05

club head positions and body positions and

1:29:07

whatever it is that you were doing

1:29:10

right or wrong would trigger a pre-recorded

1:29:12

response by Greg Norman and the product

1:29:14

was terrific. Here's the problem. We

1:29:17

had a fantastic product. We couldn't turn

1:29:19

it into a fantastic business because

1:29:21

the challenge was we have

1:29:23

to create demand. There wasn't competitive products

1:29:25

on the market and that is a

1:29:27

double-edged sword because you looked at wealth.

1:29:29

There's no competitive products. Maybe you become

1:29:31

pioneers but sometimes with products that aren't

1:29:34

on the market, your face would have

1:29:36

to educate the consumer and create demand

1:29:38

and that is just really expensive.

1:29:41

It's very hard to create demand. It became

1:29:43

one of my golden rules for buying a

1:29:46

business afterwards and I want businesses that have

1:29:48

a demand in place. We can touch on

1:29:50

golden rules later on. But I

1:29:52

was there for about three years and

1:29:55

the company grew quickly as far

1:29:57

as number of people, offices, and

1:29:59

the company. generating revenue but

1:30:01

we couldn't too

1:30:04

expensive. And I ended up leaving a

1:30:10

few years which is educational but we

1:30:15

just looking at demand. I was googling interest

1:30:34

in golf before especially like a during

1:30:45

the Tiger Woods primaries. That's all

1:30:49

I think for 25 million golfers in America.

1:30:53

I don't know what the number is now

1:30:55

but the interest from the everyday person wasn't

1:30:57

there. Although Greg Norman who was the key

1:30:59

individual in these videos and it

1:31:01

wasn't a video game was actual teaching video.

1:31:03

He was the number one golfer in the

1:31:05

world and had been for many years. So

1:31:07

for individuals in the golf community certainly were

1:31:09

aware of him. However as

1:31:12

you stated when Tiger Woods

1:31:15

came onto the scene which was right at

1:31:17

that time it was explosive that people watching

1:31:19

golf that really didn't care and hated golf.

1:31:21

It was just created an unbelievable

1:31:24

amount of excitement. Okay. So it was

1:31:26

people would order the videos to become

1:31:28

better at golf. You're saying you made this.

1:31:30

Are there VHS tape? Yes. There were VHS

1:31:32

tape and the way it was is we

1:31:35

would film a golfer actually swinging their golf

1:31:37

club hitting a ball. And most of this

1:31:39

was done at golf tournaments because you have

1:31:41

a lot of corporate events, friendly golf tournaments

1:31:44

where the companies for example if I was

1:31:46

putting on a golf club just

1:31:48

for promotional purposes or a charity event. You'd

1:31:50

have all these amateur golfers who

1:31:52

were there and then they typically get these

1:31:54

gift baskets at the end. We call them

1:31:57

TNT, trinkets and trash. They get these golf

1:31:59

baskets of t-shirt, a set of

1:32:01

balls, a backpack but a

1:32:04

hat and a backpack or a portfolio and we would actually

1:32:06

set up on one of the golf teams,

1:32:21

film the golfers swinging their club, they finished

1:32:23

playing the round and we filmed all the

1:32:25

golfers and the tournament organizer would buy our

1:32:27

product as a gift to give to the

1:32:29

golfers. So we filmed all the golfers, let's say we

1:32:31

set up on the 6T, filmed all

1:32:33

the golfers and while they

1:32:35

were playing, finishing the round of golf, we

1:32:38

actually had a mobile facility in a van

1:32:40

on site that would process all of the

1:32:42

information each individual golfer and at the end

1:32:44

of their evening and their social evening, they

1:32:47

would get handed a VHS video beautifully packaged

1:32:49

where they appeared in the video side by

1:32:51

side with Greg Norman giving them a golf

1:32:53

lesson and was an alternative to the typical

1:32:56

gifts that they had been getting in the

1:32:58

past. The problems were as follows, as

1:33:00

far as raising awareness, A, no one was

1:33:02

aware of it of course and there's the

1:33:04

tournament organizer which oftentimes if it's a corporate

1:33:06

event, if it's the sales department putting on

1:33:08

the golf tournament for its client, it may

1:33:11

be one of the VP of sales,

1:33:13

his assistant who's taking care of

1:33:15

organizing the golf tournament and that individual,

1:33:18

they may have doing tournaments for a

1:33:20

few years and that individual is just

1:33:22

used to ordering the giveaway or the

1:33:25

giveaway information for participants from the same

1:33:27

vendors year after year and this

1:33:29

was although it was incredibly interesting for

1:33:31

them to offer this type of gift.

1:33:34

I don't know if you ever organized a

1:33:36

golf tournament or anything like that. It's a

1:33:38

lot. There's a lot involved. And so looking

1:33:40

back and reflecting upon it, it was understandable

1:33:42

how these individuals who are organizing the corporate

1:33:45

event tournaments, they had so much they had

1:33:47

to do. It was just much easier. Just

1:33:49

ordered the stuff we had last year. Just

1:33:51

get them in different colors or whatever versus

1:33:53

something completely revolutionary. Although we did book a

1:33:55

lot of events and we had 15 of

1:33:58

these vehicles across the country. staff

1:34:00

I think it was about a hundred people, sales

1:34:02

people and techs that were going out and

1:34:05

doing the golf tournament and the filming and

1:34:07

so we were producing revenue but we just

1:34:09

couldn't produce profitable revenue. It's too expensive. It

1:34:11

would be a whole different ballgame today. Number

1:34:13

one, you wouldn't have to produce a VHS.

1:34:15

You would do it on a download, right?

1:34:17

And you could probably do the whole filming

1:34:20

on your phone. I guess yes and

1:34:22

that's probably whoever's doing the organizer or whatever event.

1:34:24

It's probably like the last thing they have to

1:34:26

do and it seems like do I want to

1:34:28

be edgy and find something cool at

1:34:30

the end or like you said, just order the

1:34:32

last swag bag we had from the year before

1:34:34

because I had always heard this. If

1:34:36

anyone hasn't heard of like corporate swag or

1:34:39

whatever you go to these events, have you

1:34:41

heard of that acronym before? Oh,

1:34:43

absolutely. That's what you're saying and I started to smile

1:34:45

because I said as I was explaining to you and

1:34:47

calling it trinkets and trash and you said swag bag,

1:34:49

I mean that is really the other acronym

1:34:52

for it, right? Or the other way

1:34:54

it's referred to it is a swag

1:34:56

bag, absolutely. Yeah, these are the two

1:34:58

quotes people say for what stands for

1:35:00

these corporate swag events. It's stuff we

1:35:02

all get is one or people also

1:35:04

say souvenirs, wearables and gifts which are

1:35:06

yeah, any event, corporate event you guys

1:35:09

go to and you're getting wristbands and

1:35:11

coffee mugs and stuff like that, pencils,

1:35:13

pens, stuff like that. That's usually

1:35:15

what I guess you're kind of going up against

1:35:17

versus having that person think of something kind of

1:35:19

a special gift that could work out. So what

1:35:22

happened after a couple of years of that, you end

1:35:24

up making just no profit and you're like, hey, it's

1:35:27

time for me to figure something else out? Yeah,

1:35:29

correct. It was time for me to go which was okay. The

1:35:32

business wasn't turning into what I was, it was

1:35:34

a publicly traded company although we raised money when