0:00

Who's

0:02

right to rock today Nation, JLD

0:04

here, and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to

0:06

you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. With

0:09

great shows like The Hussle Daily.

0:11

Today, we'll be breaking down how to write a book

0:13

while working full time.

0:15

To drop these value bombs, Ironbats Lauren

0:17

Maffeo EOFire Studios. Lauren

0:20

is an award winning writer and designer whose

0:22

first book designing data governance

0:24

from the ground up is in beta

0:26

and debuted at number one in the publisher's

0:28

catalog. And today, foundation will talk about

0:30

how to find time to write a book while you're

0:32

working full time the easiest and

0:34

hardest aspects of writing a book

0:37

and is realistic for you financially

0:39

to write a book if you're working FullTime. And

0:41

what did Lauren wish she knew about book writing prior

0:43

to doing it in so much more? And

0:46

big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes

0:48

to Lauren and our sponsors.

0:51

Interested in business ownership for many

0:53

entrepreneurs. Their journey starts with non

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food franchising. John Austin,

0:58

founder of Frank Bridge Consulting in a top

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1:16

Success story hosted by Scott

1:18

d Clari is brought to you by the HubSpot

1:20

podcast network, the audio destination

1:22

for business professionals Success story

1:24

features combos on sales marketing startups

1:26

and more. A recent episode on how to

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disrupt an industry is a must listen

1:31

listen to success story wherever

1:33

you get your podcast. Lauren

1:36

say what's up EOFire

1:39

nation and share something

1:41

that you believe about becoming successful

1:43

that most people disagree

1:45

with. Hey, everyone. Thank you so much

1:47

for listening to this interview today. It's great

1:49

to be here. And I think

1:52

something that I've come to realize fairly

1:54

recently is this idea

1:57

that you should never ever give up

1:59

or ever quit. I know especially

2:01

for folks who are athletes or

2:04

people who are entrepreneurs, there

2:06

is this ethos that was very

2:08

popular for many years about grinding

2:11

and never ever giving up no

2:13

math or how hopeless things looked. And I

2:16

do think that there's some value in that.

2:18

Nobody would ever finish anything hard

2:20

if it was purely about

2:23

the grind and about giving in.

2:25

But having said that, I do think

2:28

now that there is value

2:30

in knowing when you have to

2:32

cut back or even drop out of

2:34

something. I heard on

2:36

Glen and Doyle's podcast earlier this year,

2:39

the concept of quitting and how it can actually

2:41

be valuable and how the most successful

2:43

people know when to

2:45

step back from something so that they can devote

2:47

energy to something else in their

2:49

life that's more important. And I found

2:51

for instance that when I was writing this book,

2:53

I had to balance

2:55

writing the book with working full time and

2:57

that that other areas of my life,

3:00

like training for long distance

3:02

running races had to get put on the back

3:04

burner, and I ended up signing up for

3:06

a few things this year that I had to

3:08

pull out of because I ended up not having

3:10

the time to train. And so that's

3:12

not to say that I wasn't exercising while writing

3:15

this book. I was. I was still walking,

3:17

jockeying, all of that stuff, but I

3:20

had to put that side of life

3:23

training for distance races on the back burner

3:25

because writing the book was more important in the

3:27

short term. And I had to drop out of a

3:29

few things that I overcommitted to,

3:31

and that was disappointing, but I don't think it

3:33

was a bad thing. In EOFire one thing

3:35

that I'm a big believer in is the

3:38

sunk cost fallacy of just

3:40

because you started down a path or you're doing

3:42

something doesn't mean you need to keep doing

3:44

that thing because you put time energy

3:46

effort money in the past into that thing.

3:48

Every day is a fresh day. Every day is a new opportunity.

3:51

Take it. And we're talking about how to

3:53

write a book while working full time.

3:56

In time, Lauren is such a struggle

3:58

for most human beings, if not

4:00

all, So how in the world did you

4:02

find the time to write a book in one

4:05

year while you were working full

4:07

time? Yeah. It's a great question. I

4:09

I have two friends that each books

4:11

this year, and they are fantastic books.

4:13

They're very different from my own. One is

4:16

a biography of George

4:18

Floyd and one is a personal memoir

4:20

that my other acquaintance wrote

4:22

and they both got

4:24

their own dedicated time to write

4:26

those books. So one friend is a reporter for

4:28

the Washington Post, and he got book

4:30

leave to write his book. My

4:32

other friend was on parental

4:34

leave while writing her

4:37

manuscript. And so they had that dedicated

4:40

time to devote to their books. And

4:42

I found that writing a book while

4:44

working full time takes a different

4:46

kind of discipline because you have

4:48

to give your extra

4:50

hours to writing the book. You

4:52

have to be really consistent about setting

4:55

aside time during each

4:57

day to get a little bit done. So

4:59

what I would do is I would consistently set

5:01

aside time in the mornings and on weekends

5:03

to outline and write the book,

5:05

and I developed a really interesting habit

5:07

when I was doing this. I would

5:09

not consider myself a

5:11

early bird by any means and

5:14

I really worried when I would hear authors

5:16

say, oh, get up at five AM

5:18

or six AM and just right for two hours

5:20

before you log on to your job.

5:22

That's how you get it done. And I remember

5:24

thinking, I'm not sure I can

5:26

do that. I'm not really sharp in the mornings,

5:29

I don't know how this is going to work. And

5:31

what ended up happening while I was writing this

5:33

book was I developed this habit

5:35

a few times a week of waking

5:37

up, unprompted, around four

5:39

forty five, so very early

5:42

and very early for me. And

5:44

I would get up, I would make coffee,

5:46

I would go to my desk and

5:49

I would write for about two hours

5:51

and then go back to bed for a bit

5:53

and go to sleep until my first work

5:55

meeting of the day later that morning.

5:57

I am very fortunate to be able to work

5:59

remotely, and so I was able

6:01

to use those two hours.

6:03

I would have spent commuting to write

6:05

the book instead. And so I

6:08

got into that habit a few days week of

6:10

of writing from about four forty

6:12

five to seven, seven thirty, and

6:14

then getting a little extra sleep before starting

6:16

the work day, which kind of allowed for

6:18

some separation between the two jobs.

6:21

I also set soft goals to draft

6:23

draft a chapter per month and write

6:25

the equivalent of two hundred words per

6:27

day, but that didn't always happen. There

6:29

were days when I would sit down to write and

6:31

nothing would come, or I realized

6:34

that I needed to do more research on a chapter

6:36

before actually writing. The good

6:38

news is that, ultimately, I would make up for

6:40

those unproductive spells

6:42

by writing a bit more. Usually on

6:44

week ends. I found that setting aside

6:46

one day each weekend to really

6:48

bang out anywhere from a thousand to two

6:50

thousand words was productive. And it

6:52

also allowed me to feel like I was still

6:54

having a weekend because I

6:56

was able to set aside Saturday to

6:59

write the book without distractions,

7:01

but then I could have Sunday to

7:03

could reconnect with people in my life

7:05

and really have a dedicated day

7:07

off. And I also found that setting aside

7:09

one weekend day was

7:12

really helpful because it didn't feel

7:14

like I was juggling my job

7:17

with writing this book. I was able to

7:19

allow that devoted brain space. By

7:21

nation, there's a lot that I love about

7:23

what Lauren just shared about

7:25

how she accomplished this amazing goal. One of

7:27

the things was when she said soft goals, you know,

7:29

her two hundred words per day. I mean, when you look

7:31

at a book, a book is like, wow, this is hundreds,

7:33

thousands, and thousands, and tens of thousands of

7:35

words. When you break it down per day,

7:38

Like, now starts to seem manageable. In

7:40

one chapter a month, that seems manageable.

7:42

I actually call those sprint goals.

7:44

However, you call him, they work because

7:46

you break them up and they're manageable. And

7:49

writing this book changed both

7:51

your desire to write as well as

7:53

your writing style, Lauren.

7:55

Tell us more about those things. That's

7:58

very true. III don't know about

8:00

you because I know that you've written books

8:02

as well. But writing your first book

8:04

in many ways made me feel like I had

8:06

never written a word in my life at

8:08

times and that was a very strange

8:10

feeling because I have

8:12

a master's degree, so I wrote a master's

8:14

dissertation. I started my

8:16

career as a journalist. And

8:18

so I wrote many, many articles,

8:20

both as a journalist and then eventually

8:22

when I became a research analyst. In

8:25

writing this book taught me very quickly, it's one thing

8:27

to write an article. It's one thing

8:29

to write a even

8:31

a dissertation, but it's very

8:33

different to write a book with a

8:35

consistent narrative flows

8:37

between chapters and bill each

8:39

chapter builds upon each other.

8:41

My book is not a novel.

8:43

It's meant to be a very practical

8:45

hands on guide to data

8:47

governance for business leaders and data

8:49

practitioners, but I still needed each

8:51

chapter to flow. I needed the

8:53

information in each chapter to build on

8:55

itself throughout the book. And

8:57

creating that consistency was

9:00

tough. But ultimately, I think writing this

9:02

book made my writing style more succinct

9:04

and direct. I very quickly got

9:06

told off by my editor anytime that I would

9:08

try to use the passive voice.

9:10

So I have a much more active

9:13

voice in my writing now, and I I've

9:16

carried that over. I not only

9:18

notice the passive voice in writing

9:20

much more often, but I'm very

9:22

intentional about trying to

9:24

be more direct and succinct

9:26

in my language. And I did

9:28

notice that even when I was doing final

9:30

edits for this book. I would look for opportunities

9:32

to cut words. And this

9:34

book is relatively short. It's a

9:36

hundred pages and six chapters and

9:38

that's by design because data

9:41

governance can be an unwieldy

9:43

topic, and I intentionally wanted to

9:45

make it digestible, especially

9:47

for folks who might be new to the topic. But

9:49

even at that relatively short length, I

9:51

was looking for opportunities to say

9:54

what I needed to say in as

9:56

few words as possible, as

9:58

simply as possible in order to make

10:00

the topic more accessible to a wider

10:02

audience. I love all of this in Nation.

10:04

It just kinda goes back putting in the reps.

10:06

Like, you don't even know how good you're gonna

10:08

become to something until you wake up every day

10:10

and do that thing.

10:12

Now, there were some easy things and there were some

10:14

hard things about writing the book. What

10:17

was both the easiest and

10:19

the hardest aspect of writing

10:21

your book? Yep. So two things stuck

10:23

out to me as being especially

10:25

tough. The first was that

10:27

I published this book through

10:30

the pragmatic programmers, which is

10:32

a publisher that is devoted to a

10:34

technical audience. They publish a

10:36

lot of really specific books on

10:38

topics ranging from rust to going,

10:41

to programming in Python,

10:43

and they actually have their authors

10:45

write our manuscripts in

10:47

Mark which is a lightweight markup

10:49

language. If listeners have ever used GitHub

10:51

to push code to an open source project,

10:54

markdown is quite similar. You

10:56

have a local version of your book draft

10:58

on your laptop. And in order to

11:00

push edits to it, you have to

11:02

commit changes to the

11:04

main draft in markdown. And

11:06

I had never used markdown in my life. I

11:08

do all my writing in Google Docs,

11:10

which auto updates in real time doesn't

11:12

require any HTML coding.

11:14

So getting comfortable with markdown as

11:16

a first time user was a

11:18

real challenge. It was it was even

11:20

harder than writing the book itself.

11:22

They had a dedicated editor

11:24

on call who I could speak to

11:26

if I had any questions about it. And

11:28

I utilized her quite a bit

11:30

when I was first writing this book because it

11:33

it's it's like math

11:35

in the sense that once you know

11:37

how to do the equations, once you

11:39

know the formula, you don't even think

11:41

about it. You just can go into

11:43

markdown and do what you need to do. But

11:45

that learning curve, if you're not

11:47

used to using the tool, is very

11:49

steep, especially when you're a writer and you're

11:51

used to using very specific

11:53

tools in a particular way. It was a

11:55

big mindset, mindset

11:57

shift. The other tough part of

11:59

writing this book was taking a subject

12:01

that can be admittedly

12:04

dry and making it engaging. I

12:06

work in technology as a service

12:08

designer. I work with data

12:10

scientists and technical architects. And

12:12

even to that audience, data

12:14

governance isn't always the sexiest topic,

12:16

and even practitioners don't

12:18

always wanna do it because a lot of people think that

12:20

it impedes their ability to

12:22

innovate, to launch new

12:24

models, to production. Governance is kind

12:26

of seen as stoppage point to

12:28

that. So I wrote this

12:30

book with the goal to make it as

12:32

practical as possible and to be as a

12:34

compass that can help readers do their

12:36

jobs better. I say in the preface

12:38

of the book that I want readers to be able

12:40

to get on a plane in LA

12:42

with it, and have a plan to

12:44

build data governance when they land in New

12:46

York. And in order to do that, I had

12:48

to be honest about what my book is

12:50

and how I want it to be received.

12:52

And I think that involves

12:55

being honest about the fact that your book

12:57

isn't for everyone. It allows

12:59

you to define your audience and what you

13:01

want them to gain from the

13:03

book, but it also makes you

13:05

honest about the fact that this is not

13:07

a book for anyone and everyone. There

13:09

are going to be people who are

13:11

not interested or don't like it, and

13:13

that's part of the writing and

13:15

publishing process. Fire nation, you know how

13:17

big I am about defining your

13:19

audience, about identifying

13:22

your avatar. I mean, these are such key

13:24

things when you're doing anything in this

13:26

world. And as you can tell, especially when you're

13:28

doing the thing, which is writing

13:30

a book. And we have so much more to talk

13:32

about on this topic when we get back

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15:44

Lord, we're back, and there are

15:46

a lot of listeners right now,

15:48

Nation, who are working full

15:50

time. Is it realistic for them to

15:52

write a book? I really appreciate you

15:54

asking this question because I

15:56

don't see much honest discussion about

15:58

what it takes to be an

16:00

author today. The truth is that

16:02

writing a book today takes two

16:04

kinds of privilege. It takes the

16:06

privilege of time to be able to write

16:08

for free Anna takes the privilege

16:10

of a support system who can help you

16:12

write for free. I'm very lucky

16:14

that I had the time beyond

16:16

my full time job to write

16:18

this book because most

16:20

people lack the time and money to do that.

16:22

And even myself, if I had been in a

16:24

different stage of life, if I had had

16:26

young kids, I am not

16:28

sure that I would have had the fortune

16:30

of writing this book and giving

16:32

it the time that it deserved. I

16:34

wrote this book when I didn't have family obligation

16:36

so I could be selfish and use

16:39

my non work hours to

16:41

write this book as both a

16:43

passion project and an opportunity to

16:45

grow my career and my knowledge

16:47

that would assist in my career.

16:49

I won't always have that much free

16:51

time and most people don't have that time

16:53

to spare now. Most people

16:56

outside of a full time role have

16:58

caregiving duties either for parents

17:00

or children. They have

17:02

maybe volunteering commitments that

17:04

they have to fulfill. Now it's true

17:06

that you make time for what you value, so

17:08

this is not to say that a full time

17:10

employee with only can't write a book as

17:12

well. But if that's the case, then at

17:14

bare minimum, you need a social network

17:16

who can give you the time

17:18

and space to write. If you're

17:20

married, you need a very supportive spouse

17:22

who is going to understand that you

17:24

will have to turn down social

17:26

commitments, you will have to wake

17:28

up early, you will not

17:30

always be available to do things

17:32

together because writing a book is

17:34

very demanding and the process

17:36

of writing is pretty lonely in the sense

17:38

that you really need that solitude to

17:40

concentrate, and you need a partner who

17:42

understands that. That's doubly

17:44

true if you have a family together.

17:47

So you absolutely can do it. You

17:49

make time for what you value,

17:51

but you do need that time

17:53

to write and you need who

17:55

are going to support the sacrifice

17:57

that you are willing to make, and

17:59

you need people who are going to rally around

18:01

you and really support you as you

18:03

fulfill that goal. Now we do love talking about

18:06

hindsight because, hey, who doesn't wanna be a

18:08

Monday morning quarterback? Who doesn't wanna look

18:10

back and see the

18:12

opportunities that were there and

18:14

learn from the lows of course. So what

18:16

did you wish you knew about

18:18

book writing prior to doing it?

18:19

It would have been great to know upfront how

18:23

fulfilling and worthwhile the

18:25

process would feel once it was done

18:27

because The actual book writing

18:30

process is lonely and hard

18:32

at times. There was a lot of self

18:34

doubt and impostor syndrome when I was writing

18:36

this book Even if I did write a sentence

18:38

I was proud of, I could very

18:40

easily swing backwards and think

18:42

what am I doing the next

18:44

hour, I often asked myself when I was writing the strap,

18:46

who I thought I was, why I

18:48

thought I had the confidence

18:51

to pitch this book at all. I that

18:53

had these thoughts even though I was

18:55

confident in what I was

18:57

writing, I would have a

18:59

moment of clarity and then three

19:01

hours later in the kitchen while I was

19:03

making dinner, worry if I was

19:05

quote unquote right so

19:07

I was constantly doubting myself, and

19:09

that's on top of the writer's block I mentioned. I

19:11

mean, there were many mornings when I

19:14

sat down in earnest, trying

19:16

to write, trying to use my two

19:18

hours wisely, and nothing was

19:20

coming. I think every writer is is

19:22

familiar with that you

19:24

because writing is not linear and

19:26

you won't always have what you need

19:28

in your head at the right time. But

19:30

the tipping point for me was when I got

19:32

my book drafts technical reviews back. My my

19:35

reviewers were really

19:37

helpful giving advice to

19:39

improve the book draft,

19:41

but they also validated the book

19:43

idea and told me how

19:45

much they gained from it. They told me they were

19:47

going to share it with their colleagues. And

19:49

I wrote the book for people like

19:51

them. So hearing that affirmation meant

19:53

so much to me and hearing

19:55

their feedback really validated the

19:57

fact that this book deserves to exist. There were definitely

20:00

things that I needed to improve on,

20:02

and I was able to do that with their

20:04

advice. But just the fact

20:06

that they validated

20:08

the idea and reinforced

20:10

how important it was was

20:12

really special. And now

20:14

that the draft is done, I'm so

20:16

pleased that I did it. And so I

20:19

would say to anybody who's interested in

20:21

writing a book, it's going to

20:23

be a real challenge, but

20:25

it's an incredibly fulfilling feeling

20:27

once you're done. There's an old

20:29

quote. I hate writing. I love

20:31

having written, and that was very true

20:33

for me in this case. I wanna

20:35

talk about the one thing. If

20:38

the readers would walk away from

20:40

your book remembering one

20:42

thing, what would that be? I

20:44

hope readers of this book remember that AI

20:46

is just data and that

20:48

governing your data is going to give you a

20:50

big advantage over your competitors. I

20:53

have spent a lot of my career working with

20:56

clients who had millions of

20:58

data points in their possession, but

21:00

no will real way to use them

21:02

in clear consistent ways

21:04

and creating a data driven culture in

21:06

your business where colleagues across the business

21:08

feel confident using data and

21:11

advocating for it, defining the

21:13

data that they own will

21:15

give you a competitive advantage in

21:17

the long run. And the

21:19

other thing that on that note that I'd like

21:21

people to remember is that you can't do the

21:23

fun stuff in tech

21:25

without data and without good

21:27

quality data. That really is the backbone

21:30

of every strong company

21:32

today. That's how companies

21:34

like Google got to be the

21:36

behemoths that they are because they

21:38

knew how to use data in

21:40

really innovative ways that were clear, consistent,

21:43

and well governed. That's their secret

21:45

sauce. And that is something that's available

21:47

to readers as well if they're willing

21:50

to invest the time and effort into data governance

21:52

that were? How can EOFire

21:54

Nation connect with you if they really

21:56

resonate with your message here? Can

21:58

they connect with you? Learn more from you? What is your

22:00

call to action for nation?

22:03

I would love to hear from folks

22:05

who wanna learn more about writing

22:07

a book interested in the subject

22:09

matter of the book. So you can find

22:11

me on Twitter, LinkedIn,

22:13

and Instagram under my

22:15

full name, Lauren Maffeo. You

22:18

can also go to preg

22:20

prod dot com and search

22:22

for my book, designing data

22:24

governance from ground up. It is currently

22:26

available in beta

22:28

across all e readers,

22:30

tablets, and a print version of the

22:32

book will be coming in late

22:34

twenty twenty two, early twenty

22:36

twenty three. So again, if you go to

22:38

preg prod dot com and search for

22:40

designing data governance from the

22:42

ground up, under their title

22:44

section, you will find my book,

22:46

Ian Kinn preorder. Fire Nation

22:48

will have that link in the show notes,

22:50

but I want you to know that you are

22:52

the average. Of the five people you spend the most

22:54

time with, and you've been hanging out with

22:56

LM and JLD today. So keep up that

22:58

heat. If you have any direct questions

23:00

for Lauren, Find this episode on the

23:02

podcast app. Paropolo, post a

23:04

comment, post a question, and

23:06

Lauren, thank you for sharing your truth,

23:08

your knowledge, with Fire Nation today. For

23:10

that, we salute you and we'll catch you

23:12

on the flip side. Thanks for

23:14

having me. Hey, Fire

23:16

A huge. Thank you to our

23:18

sponsors and Lauren for sponsoring today's episode

23:20

and successful entrepreneurs

23:23

accomplish big goals. That's why I created

23:25

a Freedom Journal guide

23:27

you in accomplishing your number one goal in a

23:29

hundred days, and we're talking step by

23:31

step day by

23:33

day. Visit the freedom journal dot

23:34

com. I'll catch you there. Are on the

23:37

flip side. Interested in business

23:39

ownership for many entrepreneurs, their journey

23:41

starts with non food franchising,