0:16

Good morning or evening

0:19

listeners , and

0:21

welcome to another episode of Epic

0:23

Encounters . I'm your host , braylon

0:26

, and this is my co-host . Audience member

0:28

, train conductor , pilot , minecraft

0:30

enthusiast farmer , street pharmacist

0:33

and all-around human person .

0:35

Matt , matt , oh yeah .

0:38

Yeah , yeah . So you've got a long list of titles

0:41

today .

0:44

It's pretty good Bill .

0:46

And for our episode today , we

0:49

have the

0:52

clones from the Star Wars universe

0:54

genetically engineered soldiers

0:56

made for war on behalf

0:58

of the Galactic Republic versus

1:01

the fighters of democracy

1:03

, the people who will come

1:05

to your house , kick in your door and give you

1:07

liberty the Helldivers

1:10

. So

1:14

. I hope everyone's got as many American

1:16

flags as they can

1:18

and don't mention anything

1:21

about having oil for at least

1:23

the rest of the episode . Um

1:25

, space

1:30

america yeah , space , space

1:32

, america . Well , it's literally super yeah

1:35

yeah , I

1:38

don't . I don't know how more American you can

1:40

be . I mean , the only

1:42

thing that they could have done more is call it Super

1:44

America or Mega America . I'd

1:47

be okay with Mega . I'd be more okay

1:49

with Mega America than Super America

1:51

, it

1:55

just sounds cooler . Or

1:58

Omega America .

2:02

I'd like that one a lot more still ridiculous

2:05

, but you know whatever

2:07

no , we're alpha

2:09

america , you come first .

2:11

Okay , all right , let's stop okay

2:13

with

2:19

that being said , we should get down

2:21

into what the episode's gonna be

2:23

. So we're gonna go over

2:25

the weapons and equipment of each

2:27

of the individual teams . It

2:30

is a 5v5 , with each

2:32

group having a specific set

2:34

of specialists , their leaders , heavy

2:37

weapons coordinator , engineer

2:40

, sniper , and then

2:42

your standard rifleman , something put

2:44

inside , the , put alongside

2:46

there , um

2:50

, for

2:54

the fights . It's gonna be a

2:57

best of , in your mind , best

2:59

of 1000 , just how this fight would

3:01

go if they were to face off against each other many

3:03

, many times over and

3:06

who would win more often than

3:08

the other , based on their equipment

3:10

, weapons , their

3:13

toughness , strategy , armor , what

3:15

weaknesses each side has , and

3:19

just kind of breaking down which

3:21

one would win overall and then why

3:23

. We think that after we go through

3:25

the play-by-play and

3:29

at the end of the entire

3:32

combat , we'll go over

3:34

what we scored for everything and

3:36

why we scored those things

3:38

that way to kind of back

3:40

up our choice . With

3:44

that being said , matt

3:47

, we can get right into it with

3:49

talking about the

3:51

. You may talk about

3:53

whichever one you want to start with , because we can

3:55

just get into discussion on either one . I

3:59

guess we can start with the clones . I think that's

4:01

the one that both of us know pretty well all the information

4:04

on the individual groups . We wanted to go over

4:06

just the stuff that we're not including . Yeah

4:09

, just a couple of things that we think

4:11

aren't worth adding to the conversation

4:14

, specifically for

4:19

the hell , go ahead , go ahead . You can go ahead

4:21

and talk about it if you want yeah , for

4:23

both of them .

4:24

We are excluding not

4:27

airdrops , we're excluding , uh

4:29

, orbit to surface artillery

4:31

.

4:31

I'll say that , I guess yeah

4:35

, that that tanks , aerial support

4:37

, all of the

4:40

additional factors

4:42

that you have . So hell

4:44

divers can't call in their air support . They can't call

4:46

in assistance from anyone

4:48

outside of the battle , because

4:51

it is meant to be one team

4:53

versus the other in a fight to the death

4:55

. It can . If the moment you

4:57

add in other factors , then we

4:59

have to start comparing way more things

5:01

in the scope of what we really want to talk about and

5:05

so just focus .

5:06

It's very hard to measure .

5:08

Yeah , we want to

5:10

measure one squad versus one squad

5:12

, not one squad plus their air

5:14

support , plus any

5:16

kind of logistics they can throw in . That doesn't

5:18

help with us deciding which one we want to do

5:20

.

5:21

Plus the lint in your pocket .

5:23

Yeah , and not . No pocket sand , no lint

5:25

pockets . What Wait

5:27

a second ? Why the hell am ? I even Shut the hell

5:29

up , Matt . Pocket

5:32

sand and pocket lint ain't got

5:34

nothing to do with this .

5:37

Justice lint .

5:41

Alright for anyone unfamiliar

5:43

, starting with the clones , anyone unfamiliar

5:45

with the clone troopers they are the main force

5:47

of the Galactic Republic in Star

5:49

Wars . They're equipped

5:51

to go around different planets throughout the galaxy

5:53

and ensure something very

5:55

similar to democracy , but bring people

5:58

into the Republic or remove the C

6:00

cis from those areas . The

6:02

entire group is trained from birth

6:04

, after they've been cloned , to

6:07

be a fighting force that is

6:09

second to none . They're

6:11

trained by bound one of the best bounty

6:13

hunters of the time period , which would be jango fett

6:16

, to be effective to fight , and they're based off

6:18

him genetically to be effective to fight , and they're based off of him

6:20

genetically to be effective to fight pretty much any

6:22

enemy . And all of their weapons

6:24

and equipment and everything else

6:26

are all made specifically for

6:28

them , produced specifically

6:31

for that tactic and that need

6:33

. So everything

6:35

, including their equipment , weapons , gear

6:37

, armor and their support

6:40

vehicles were all made for them to

6:42

be interchangeable

6:45

and work with each other , which is why

6:47

the clone fighting force in Star Wars is

6:50

so effective . On

6:57

to the Helldivers really quickly , just to cover what

7:00

they can and can't do is

7:03

the Helldivers are essentially

7:05

a force of either

7:07

conscripted or volunteer

7:10

military forces that

7:12

all join up together on behalf

7:14

of Super Earth that

7:16

are deployed to different planets and

7:19

various places to secure democracy

7:21

aka oil

7:23

yeah , yeah , oil , different

7:26

planetary resources and so on

7:28

, playing very hard

7:30

on that america trope . They focus on guerrilla

7:32

warfare , hit and run and then sometimes

7:35

overwhelming localized force , and

7:39

they fight various types of enemies . Whether

7:42

that be , I think , what is it ? The collective

7:45

? Uh , the ? What

7:47

are the damn bugs called ?

7:50

how did I forget

7:52

the name of these guys ? Already they

7:54

are . Oh

7:57

man , I've been playing too many bug games . I

7:59

keep wanting to say tyranids . Yeah , they're not .

8:01

They're not wanting to say Tyranids , they're not Tyranids from Warhammer

8:03

, that's

8:06

a whole nother hellscape .

8:15

Terminids .

8:17

Terminids are the bugs in

8:19

that situation , but yes , they fight against Terminids . Terminids

8:21

are the bugs in that situation , but yes , they fight against Terminids , terminator-like

8:25

robots from some

8:27

planet I can't remember what it is and

8:31

we'll get into that later but they

8:33

fight against various different enemies to secure

8:35

different resources or spread

8:37

democracy or liberate those

8:39

resources from enemies that super

8:42

earth deems problematic another

8:51

list of enemies is I do know that they do fight cyborgs

8:53

, which are supposed to be rebels yeah

8:56

, yeah those are the actions that they

8:58

they stole the robots planet .

9:00

We don't like space communists here .

9:05

If you're not a human and from Earth , they don't

9:07

like you . A very straightforward

9:10

, a very xenophobic view of the

9:12

galaxy . Fair

9:15

enough , I guess .

9:18

Scary place out there . Gotta power my ship .

9:24

Yep , scary place out there , gotta power my ship . Yep , scary place out there , gotta

9:26

power my ship . So , uh , you gotta die so I can get fuel from you . Um , with

9:30

that being said , I think

9:32

that kind of covers the bulk of the things

9:35

we can get into , or

9:37

at least a brief little intro into things

9:39

we can get into , or at least

9:41

a brief little intro into things we can

9:43

get into . A little bit of the breakdown of how each of the things

9:45

work , starting with

9:47

the clone troopers . So

9:51

we're going to go into the equipment . Each

9:54

of the clones has their standard

9:56

armor , which is this plastoid

9:58

or plastic mixed armor

10:00

that's sealed on the outside . It has a little

10:02

undersuit and bodysuit in there that

10:04

allows them to be in space for

10:07

limited amounts of time , travel

10:09

in various atmospheres

10:11

and battlefields , as

10:14

well as survive , shrapnel

10:16

and displace energy weapon attacks

10:18

though I think we

10:20

discussed this the armor is

10:22

and I know it'll come up as a question the

10:25

armor is decent against

10:27

ballistics , even though they primarily

10:29

get shot by energy weapons . The armor is

10:32

decent against ballistics .

10:35

We'll cover that when we get to it . Yes , and gunfire

10:37

and so on .

10:38

We'll cover it when we get to the discussion about how

10:40

we think the battle will go Going

10:44

over quickly . What clones

10:47

are equipped with ? Weapon wise , we

10:49

have the DC 15 Blaster

10:51

.

10:55

I gotta actually slow down a little bit we

10:58

have the DC-15 blaster , followed

11:01

up by their RPS-6

11:04

. Oh wait , yeah , heavy . Oh

11:06

, in their heavy section we have RPS-6

11:09

rocket launcher , followed

11:11

by oh man , the chaingun is not

11:14

, is it just called chaingun ?

11:17

I think it's the C6 , but

11:19

I'd have to double check on that one . There

11:22

is a Z6 rotary

11:24

blaster .

11:26

I see it Yep , yep . And

11:32

then , following that , we have

11:34

oh boy , oh

11:37

, I don't have my other one pulled up .

11:40

I think that's all . I think

11:42

that's everything . They have that , and

11:44

then , lastly , they have their thermal detonator and

11:47

their droid poppers , which are their special weapons

11:49

, and some other ones that we will discuss further

11:52

down when we're breaking down the

11:54

comparison between the two weapons . But

11:56

that's the standard stuff that

11:59

we were going over For

12:01

the democracy corner

12:04

for democracy . You

12:08

have a mixture of

12:10

. Before

12:14

we even get any further than that , I

12:17

had to slow down . I'm

12:20

going a little faster than I really want

12:22

to and I'm

12:24

getting a little confused .

12:27

My bad . We can cut this section out and

12:29

then we can read a little bit about it if we need it to be a little

12:31

longer .

12:33

No , no , no , it's fine , I'm just moving a

12:35

little . I'm moving myself

12:37

a little faster than I think I want to . I'll

12:39

cut that part out . I

12:44

do want to keep the pace

12:46

, but I want to slow down just

12:48

a little bit , so I'm not going too fast

12:51

so

12:59

for the , I think I have

13:01

the yes , okay . For the

13:03

side of democracy , we

13:06

have the AR-19 liberator

13:08

, essentially your fully

13:10

automatic rifle with

13:14

all your bells and whistles , scope

13:16

, stock , everything else , and it's a bullpup

13:18

rifle . For

13:23

their heavy weapon , you have the MG-94

13:25

machine gun and

13:29

for their anti-tank weapon you have

13:31

the RX-1 rail rifle

13:33

. And

13:36

then their special weapons are all of the

13:38

various types of equipment

13:41

that you can bring . If anyone's

13:43

played hell divers , you know that

13:45

there's a massive array of

13:47

special weapons , special items , grenades

13:49

, bombs , different

13:52

types of deployables , etc . That you can bring

13:54

. So we can't

13:56

cover every single last one of them , but we

13:58

can cover a fair bit and go all

14:00

right here . Here's everything that

14:02

they could possibly bring

14:04

, and we won't talk about every

14:06

single last one indefinitely

14:09

for no reason , cause that's pointless . All

14:15

right , with

14:22

that being said , we can go ahead and set

14:24

up this , this

14:26

particular talk about the

14:28

fight . I don't really have too

14:31

much to say further

14:33

. Yeah , we can just

14:36

continue moving on . I'll

14:39

cut out any of that extra shit . All

14:41

right with the next

14:43

section to talk about

14:45

is the battle itself or

14:49

the breakdown of the battle itself . All

14:53

right , so

14:55

we're gonna go ahead and get into

14:57

the battle itself and discussing

15:00

what . What in particular

15:02

about each of the groups is important

15:04

. And let's just start with

15:07

. We'll

15:12

just talk about their general skill

15:14

in combat in this

15:16

situation . Talk

15:23

about their general skill in combat in this situation . I think

15:25

I want to start with the

15:27

clone troopers too . Um , we can . Let's start with just mobility

15:29

. Um , when

15:34

we were discussing it , both

15:37

of them are roughly the same as

15:40

far as their ability to move

15:42

around . Neither

15:45

one has any particular advantage in their natural

15:47

movement or ability , even granted

15:50

by their armor or their physicality . No

15:52

significant differences between the two

15:54

, significant differences between the two .

15:59

The only thing we found for Clone Troopers

16:01

was there was mild discomfort for

16:03

the armor , specifically when sitting

16:05

down , and then Helldivers

16:08

have a

16:11

little bit of a power armor

16:13

going on there , but nothing major

16:15

, nothing that we decided would

16:18

really swing too much .

16:19

Yes . So out of a score of 100 possible

16:23

points for either one , the Helldiver scored

16:25

a 28 and the Clone Trooper

16:28

scored a 25 . When

16:33

it came down to strength , once

16:36

again very similar . Both

16:38

of them are as strong as you would expect

16:40

a human soldier to be . Neither

16:44

one of them is excessively impressive

16:46

in that category . They probably can

16:48

bench press , push , deadlift . Whatever

16:50

you want to go with for your idea

16:53

of strength in this situation . Idea

17:00

of strength in this situation about the same amount , with the hell divers , of course , having some form

17:02

of power armor , meaning that their

17:04

standard strength is likely a little

17:06

bit higher , with hell divers scoring a

17:08

28 out of 100 and clones getting

17:10

a 25 out of 100

17:12

then quick disclaimer for everyone

17:14

else uh , we went with , like

17:16

your typical human , to be between 10

17:19

and 15 for this , and then , like

17:21

an Olympic athlete , to be around 25

17:23

, 30 yeah say we

17:25

. We kind of set a standard idea

17:27

for where we wanted everybody to be at , so

17:31

that the you know where the

17:33

standard starts , where the baseline starts

17:35

. Standard humans are between generally

17:38

1 to 10 . And

17:40

then everything above that is slightly above

17:42

your standard baseline human

17:45

who isn't out of shape

17:47

.

17:48

And then also , I guess , another quick disclaimer , if

17:50

you're not super like , if you kind of

17:52

disagree , like , oh hey , like someone

17:55

is like a soldier

17:57

should be better than an olympic sprinter

17:59

, for example , or something like that

18:01

. If you look up like olympic , olympian

18:03

body types depending

18:05

on their sport , you will see the dramatic

18:08

differences in specialization between

18:10

people's bodies I mean people

18:13

are going to be yeah , everyone's going

18:15

to be massively different .

18:16

Like , an

18:19

Olympian is probably not who I would want to go

18:21

for . When I'm talking about physical strength

18:24

, I'd probably want to talk like . I'd

18:26

probably want to say that , hey

18:28

, a , a world's

18:30

strongest man power lifter is

18:32

probably significantly stronger than an Olympian

18:34

. Yes , you're right , but they're also huge

18:37

significantly stronger than an Olympian . Yes , you're right , but they're also huge . You got people up

18:39

there in the 400-pound range who

18:41

couldn't run a mile , but they could

18:43

throw 1,000 pounds around . That's great

18:45

, but that's not what I'm going to use as my baseline

18:47

, nor am I going to use . I might use it for where

18:51

I would label something on a scale , but I'm

18:53

not going to . I'm

18:58

not going to use it for an example

19:00

. I'm going to use olympics . So you can go look at this

19:02

stuff and you can go look at the . You

19:04

can go look at comparable skill to that

19:07

yep uh

19:11

, next strategy

19:13

? uh , this

19:16

is . This is where our list gets a little unbalanced

19:19

. Generally speaking

19:21

, hell divers have a very guerrilla

19:23

tactic style breakdown for

19:25

things . Hell divers are

19:27

shock and awe tactics

19:29

, hit and run . We pop

19:32

into the situation that we need to get to smash

19:35

this guy out of here and

19:38

move on , and a lot of times you may leave an

19:40

area . When you're done with your objective , you may dip

19:43

off to another place or

19:45

you might die , yeah , or you might die

19:48

because they sent you on a suicide run , they sent you on

19:50

a dummy mission , uh

19:52

, but . And

19:54

then sometimes there's overwhelming force by

19:56

just sheer weight of numbers or

19:59

by their ships and vessels . But that's

20:01

neither here nor there . In this situation

20:03

, we

20:06

consider that their

20:08

tactic style , while it is effective

20:10

for their world and for their fights , generally

20:14

speaking the tactic used

20:16

is rudimentary and they

20:18

don't really have any other major tactics that

20:20

are mentioned . It's

20:22

just kind of brute force , everything . Then

20:27

we move over to the clone troopers . Well

20:29

, I do believe that clones in

20:31

star wars are a little held back by

20:33

the fact that they had jedi generals

20:36

at points who knew nothing about warfare

20:38

and were very

20:40

un uneducated in

20:42

the art of fighting these

20:45

massive wars across an entire galaxy

20:47

. The clones

20:49

themselves had excellent

20:51

tactics , excellent strategy

20:53

. Once order 66

20:56

was given , they were able to take out dozens

20:59

of thousands of jedi with

21:02

just their , with just

21:04

their tactics , and surprise training

21:08

from additionally , yeah , so they've

21:10

been trained from birth and , additionally , the higher up

21:12

on the clone trooper scale you go , the more

21:14

the skill gets better and better and better . I

21:17

would say that their current tactic

21:19

level is very similar to

21:21

modern day special

21:23

forces and elite troops that

21:26

we use , so very

21:28

much all of the strategies that you

21:30

would see in the modern day for

21:32

seal teams , for

21:35

marines , for rangers

21:37

, for green berets , for , uh

21:39

, even your

21:41

british special forces and so on . So

21:45

for when we

21:47

went for gauging the points on their strategy

21:49

and tactics , uh , hell , divers

21:52

were given a 15 for

21:54

being , you know , just essentially very

21:56

basic , but better than your average person

21:58

.

21:59

We won't To the clone .

22:04

What was it ? Oh , you broke out there . That's my

22:07

bad . Oh

22:09

yeah , you're fine . Yeah

22:11

, but for Helldivers , we went with your

22:13

average of an average of 15

22:16

, with clones getting and getting

22:18

a higher , much , much higher score of

22:20

52 , because

22:23

their strategy and and overall

22:26

tactics were so much better than held

22:28

average .

22:28

based on what you see , based

22:31

on the lore , Our

22:34

justification for that , if anyone

22:36

needs it , is uh , it's hard to

22:38

compare like your typical

22:40

hyped up on democracy

22:42

human versus the world's greatest

22:44

bounty hunters clone times five , yeah

22:46

well , in this case , times

22:49

an army , but in

22:51

our specific case , times five yeah

22:54

.

22:54

So take , take your

22:56

best street or

22:59

special forces team today versus

23:01

your average , uh , your

23:03

average gun-toting american , and

23:06

I can , I can almost tell you that you're gonna

23:08

run into the issue of what is

23:10

actually you know . Just take

23:12

your average , like your average

23:15

soldier or police officer or SWAT

23:17

team member , and then put them up against your

23:21

average special

23:24

forces , your Navy SEALs

23:26

, your SEAL Team 6 style dude , and

23:28

there's going to be a massive difference

23:31

in training , experience , tactical

23:34

acumen , everything . They're

23:36

not going to be the same . They might be armed with the same shit . They're not going to be the same . They might be armed with the

23:39

same shit , but not

23:41

going to be the same .

23:42

If you play paintball against SEAL Team 6 , you're going to have

23:44

a bad time and a lot of losses .

23:46

That'd be kind of fun though , I won't lie I

23:48

feel like I've already done that I'll

23:51

say you could just be like hey , can we play paintball with SEAL Team 6 ? If they're

23:53

willing . Hey , can we play paintball with SEAL Team 6

23:55

? If they're willing . That'd be fun

23:57

, though 100%

23:59

I'd pay to do that . It'd

24:03

be over fast and I wouldn't win , but

24:05

it'd be fun

24:07

.

24:08

Oh , absolutely I would

24:11

do it . I would also do it , oh yeah

24:13

.

24:15

I'd travel and pay to do that . That would

24:17

be fun . Surprise , that's not a thing

24:19

. Next

24:23

, we're moving on to toughness

24:25

. Matt

24:28

, you can go ahead and talk about this one . It's

24:30

not special .

24:32

So toughness , in the left corner of democracy

24:34

and liberty we have a

24:37

solid 18 . Slightly

24:39

above human or slightly above average human

24:41

. We decided to go with that because , well , you

24:44

do have some training and you are

24:46

prepared to go to war and die for democracy

24:49

and apparently

24:51

jump out of a spaceship and

24:53

land . So you know it takes

24:55

take

24:57

something to do that . So we went with just

25:00

a little bit above average . So we

25:03

went with 18 for that . And then also

25:06

yeah good .

25:10

Wait one second . We're making sure it it's

25:12

reconnecting . It

25:16

probably already recorded it because it does it on both sides

25:18

, but it says trying to reconnect

25:21

.

25:23

Interesting .

25:26

Okay , you

25:28

can hear me though right now , right .

25:29

Yeah , yeah , you sound fine .

25:31

Yeah , you can just carry on , I'm done

25:33

. It says

25:35

that , but it's being weird , I don't care .

25:41

Okay , carry on , I'm done , done . It says that , but it's being weird , I don't care , okay . And then

25:43

, in the right corner of the republic , see what I did there right for republic , left

25:45

for liberty . Easy , it's

25:48

like it wrote itself . We also have

25:50

another solid 18 because , although

25:52

they are engineered genetically

25:54

and clones of one

25:57

of the greatest well , the greatest bounty hunter of his time

25:59

in star wars he

26:01

is , I mean , they're still relatively

26:03

normal and feel pain the same way , and

26:06

they all yeah

26:08

, they're all still human .

26:09

So we went with an even 18 on both

26:11

sides , just above the average yeah

26:14

, nothing special for either one of them that would

26:16

make us go , uh hey

26:20

, this one is significantly better than the

26:22

. Now moving

26:25

on to armor , and

26:28

for armor , this was one of those ones that , uh

26:30

, this is another one that was very close for both of them

26:33

. While we gave the hell divers

26:35

a uptick in their

26:37

strength and mobility because

26:39

of their armor in

26:41

particular which because , yes , their armor does

26:43

make them better when

26:45

it came down to their armor's actual

26:48

survivability , the armor

26:50

doesn't really speak much about

26:52

how reliable it is . It is

26:54

good against light , against

26:57

small arms , fire and shrapnel

26:59

and so on , but

27:01

without any of the customization that is added

27:03

by individualization

27:05

or so on by individual helldivers

27:08

. The armor itself is

27:10

pretty lackluster , more relying on

27:12

you not getting hit , which

27:15

most armor does , but it can't take

27:17

a beating . It isn't meant to take a beating

27:19

. The

27:22

Clone Trooper armor , while very similar

27:24

to the Helldiver armor in the fact

27:26

that it's meant to take care of light arms

27:28

and so on , it has a little

27:30

bit more survivability overall

27:32

. It's meant

27:35

to deflect off energy attacks and small arms . It's meant to

27:37

deflect off energy attacks and

27:39

small arms . It's very effective against ballistics

27:42

, which is one of the things we were going to come back to A

27:44

large part of the reason in Star Wars why they

27:46

don't use ballistics anymore is armor got

27:48

good . Armor got good . It's

27:52

good enough to deal with ballistics . Probably

27:55

your standard 5.56 from the modern day

27:57

wouldn't be good enough to penetrate clone

27:59

armor . It's

28:03

just going to be generally pretty effective

28:05

against your average

28:08

everyday ballistic weapon and

28:11

it also allows them short travel

28:13

in space . It's

28:15

completely sealed it . It

28:18

offers a lot of different advantages that

28:20

the hell diver armor . Despite the fact

28:22

that it gives a bonus in strength , the clone

28:24

armor is just a little bit more protective

28:26

.

28:28

Quick question . More of a joke . So

28:32

if we put up a clone trooper

28:34

versus a brute , would it be cracking

28:36

a cold boy open ?

28:41

That's fucked up , that's

28:43

probably what would happen yeah . Cracking

28:46

probably what would happen

28:48

, yeah , cracking open a clone one

28:51

.

28:53

Oh man , I had to . It was an easy joke

28:56

.

28:59

Even though it would be Now

29:01

, clones would do pretty poorly against a brute . Both

29:05

of these would do pretty poorly . Yeah

29:07

, yeah good , clones would do pretty poorly against a brute

29:09

, just like both of these would do pretty poorly . Um , yeah , one of the

29:11

yeah good , oh yeah say as far as ballistics go you

29:14

can . You can see quite a few of the star wars comics

29:16

where ballistics even small shrapnel

29:18

fragmentation grenades , stuff like that , aren't

29:21

super effective against clones and

29:23

some of the ballistic style weapons

29:26

that are used at various points aren't

29:28

very effective . And I know that in

29:31

modern canon clone

29:33

trooper armor and stormtrooper armor is generally

29:36

pretty bad . But that's just modern

29:38

canon , because as far as

29:40

legends and , uh , various

29:43

lore goes , the armor is pretty

29:45

effective against pretty much

29:47

all blunt force , trauma and ballistics . It's

29:50

just not great against energy

29:52

shots and even then most

29:56

blaster rifles with

29:58

only one shot wouldn't kill a clone . In

30:00

fact it generally only knocks them out cold

30:03

Because

30:05

the armor is meant to disperse heat and disperse

30:07

direct damage . Generally

30:10

speaking , the armor is pretty effective

30:13

in comparison Weaknesses

30:19

I'm

30:22

actually going to let you take that away , man .

30:25

For weaknesses , we went with emotional attachment . We gave a minus five to clones for this one . I'm actually going to let you take that away , man , okay . So for weaknesses , we went

30:27

with emotional attachment . We gave a minus

30:30

5 to clones for this one . The

30:32

reason being is they're all clones

30:34

and they're all raised together in the

30:36

same place , on Kamino , and trained

30:38

together throughout their entire short

30:41

, sad lives . Alright , that's me

30:43

okay . I

30:45

got dark about that

30:50

I couldn't help myself , oh

30:53

man , but yeah , because of the emotional

30:55

attachment , we figured

30:57

that , like when one of their comrades goes down

30:59

, it would affect them in battle , at

31:02

least to a minor degree . So we

31:04

gave a minus 5 penalty for that , and

31:06

then for weaknesses , as far as

31:08

hell divers go , and the sweet sweet side

31:10

of justice , liberty and democracy

31:13

. We have a minus 10 for undisciplined

31:15

, because jumping out of a spaceship with

31:18

your american flag and a gun and

31:20

a bald eagle and landing on your knees

31:22

is not the

31:24

greatest military

31:26

tactic and

31:29

on top of that isn't a great military tactic

31:31

? yeah , yeah

31:33

, oh , man

31:35

, also , like in terms of training

31:38

, there's just not a whole lot

31:40

of discipline there . Not saying that they didn't get

31:42

any training . They obviously know how to load their gun

31:44

and probably take care of their gun it's

31:46

their gun so I would at

31:48

least hope that they have that much going on . Plus

31:51

, you know , they knew how to jump out of the spaceship

31:53

. So they're doing pretty good for themselves so far . But

31:56

we went with the minus 10 for undisciplined because

31:58

they're just not gonna be

32:00

trained

32:02

from birth yeah , so

32:04

it's .

32:05

It's not the same level of discipline . And

32:07

once again it goes back

32:09

to that strategy thing . If your strategy

32:12

is guerrilla tactics and you

32:14

don't even have a standardization for your

32:16

uh , soldiers , you're gonna have

32:18

a lot of , you're gonna

32:20

have a lot of variation amongst the effectiveness

32:23

of each individual troop , rather than

32:25

a squad that all

32:27

has uniformity and

32:29

all works together as a unit . You're

32:32

going to have a bunch of randomness . And that's kind

32:34

of the thing for hell divers in general , which

32:38

, going on to x factors

32:40

, we'll start

32:42

immediately with the hell divers thing and that

32:44

is one of their X factors , which

32:46

is their customization and individuality

32:49

. They're not a uniform

32:51

army

32:53

of everyone being exactly

32:55

the same . They are

32:58

a more

33:00

I almost want to say militia

33:02

style , like a civilian

33:04

militia of sorts . Want

33:13

to say militia style , like a civilian militia of sorts . They're essentially

33:15

a private military , private military that is state owned by

33:17

the world . I don't know that's a weird way to put it

33:19

, but hell divers in

33:21

particular are this

33:23

militia that has various customization

33:26

and can be changed , instead of the

33:28

rigid stability

33:30

of the clone army . And

33:35

for the clones X factor it is

33:38

the fact that they are emotionally

33:40

attached to the people that they were born

33:43

with and trained with , because

33:46

brotherhood and being bred for war essentially

33:49

makes them a very effective unit . They

33:51

can cover each other's weaknesses . They know

33:53

what failures the other ones might have

33:55

and then what strengths the other ones have , which

33:58

is why you get units like the bad batch

34:00

that are , even though they're defective

34:02

clones or defective arc troopers whichever

34:04

one they are they're insane . They're insanely

34:07

effective , much like many

34:09

other small units of clones

34:11

that are hyper effective for what

34:13

they are and

34:16

clones happen to be that way

34:18

in general . That's just

34:20

their , that's just their standard way

34:22

of going about things standard

34:29

way of going about things .

34:30

A good example of that is if you say that or if a clone says that they're going to

34:32

cover your back and you're part of that squad , you know that they mean it and don't

34:34

have doubt for it yeah , you already know

34:36

that guy .

34:37

It's . It's the guy that you were you shared

34:39

a bunk bed with for the past your

34:43

entire life yeah , your entire life .

34:44

You already know that this guy can do what

34:46

he says he's going to do , because you know him already another

34:50

thing that I should add to this that's already

34:52

not in our notes is uh

34:54

, they all have the same size clothing

34:57

and everything is built

34:59

specifically for one person

35:01

, because everyone is that one person . I mean , yeah , that is true that they

35:03

all can , they all are used to everything working for each other .

35:05

Which person I mean ? Yeah , that is true that they all can , they all are

35:07

used to everything working for each

35:09

other , which is , I mean , the modularity

35:11

of everything is really good I

35:15

mean I'm not sure if that really is worth mentioning

35:17

, the max factor , but it is kind of cool , I guess I

35:19

guess we just throw it in there as we move on

35:21

to weapons , because I guess that's where it starts to matter

35:24

. Um , let's

35:26

start with the primary weapons . We're

35:30

just going to give the scores on these ones instead

35:33

of just talking about them . Dc-15

35:37

versus the AR-19 Liberator

35:39

Clone

35:42

. Dc-15 got a score

35:45

of 30 and the Helld 15 got a score of 30 and the

35:47

hell divers got a score of 15

35:51

. And

35:54

the main reason for that is the clone trooper blaster

35:57

is modular . It can do a

35:59

bunch of things . It can change its power

36:01

output . It has insane

36:03

range , has no bullet

36:06

drop . It's

36:11

ammo capacity can be any , is variable , but they have a standard 500 rounds per magazine

36:13

without needing to change it

36:16

. Their magazines are light . The

36:18

changing magazines is easy

36:20

, they're interchangeable between everyone's guns

36:22

and the blaster itself is light

36:25

. It's collapsible , it can fit in tight

36:27

spot . It's just a better gun overall

36:29

and it has a higher damage output

36:31

because essentially one blaster

36:33

shot might be the end

36:35

of the fight

36:37

in reality everything

36:40

between your front and back yeah , and

36:42

the blaster is at its highest setting

36:45

is just powerful enough to , as we see

36:47

, with like droids and stuff , just punch through the

36:49

droid in a single shot , as

36:51

compared to A

36:54

AR 15 or 19 . In

36:56

this case it's going

36:58

to have , I think that it's based off

37:00

of 7.26 or 7.25

37:02

, whichever one ammunition , which means , which

37:04

means it's not punching through the armor . That's

37:07

specifically good against small to medium

37:09

arms . As far as ballistics

37:11

go , armor to

37:13

armor and weapon to weapon , the DC-15

37:16

is just better .

37:18

Yep .

37:20

Next is the clones

37:23

CZ or

37:26

just Z6 versus

37:29

the MG94

37:31

machine gun .

37:34

So for these we went with both . Actually

37:37

, I'm not too sure about that . Is the chain

37:40

gun standard ?

37:42

Not the chain one . The CZ or

37:45

the Z6 is essentially

37:47

a standard weapon , A standard heavy weapon . Versus

37:51

the MG94 , and that's the heavy , so

37:53

the clone's got a 15 in this category

37:56

.

38:00

And the Helldiver's got a 25 .

38:03

Yes , and that is primarily because

38:05

the the

38:08

Helld hell divers machine

38:10

gun is just more effective

38:12

. It has a lot less issues

38:14

, it isn't unwieldy , it can still

38:16

be fired on the move , it

38:19

has a decent ammo capacity and

38:21

range and

38:24

then if you could imagine taking that coin and

38:26

then flipping it and landing in

38:28

the lake .

38:29

That's where the clone's gun is yeah , it's

38:31

, it's , it's .

38:33

It's just kind of bad it

38:35

. It has a decent rate of fire , but

38:37

not anywhere . Not the same as the mg94s

38:40

. It's slower . It's

38:42

. It's not significantly slower . Um , it's not significantly

38:44

slower , but overall it's not

38:46

significantly slower . It's not significantly slower , but

38:48

overall it's slower . It has the

38:50

issue of being an overly

38:53

cumbersome heavy changing

38:59

ammunition or reloading takes several minutes and normally requires clones to just leave the battlefield

39:01

to do so or have heavy

39:03

cover while they do so .

39:05

You did hear that correctly . Several minutes

39:07

.

39:09

Yeah , it's a straight up sit down and change this

39:11

out and hope nobody shoots

39:14

you in the face during that time period .

39:16

Might as well listen to Audible .

39:18

Put it on an audiobook or

39:20

a YouTube video or

39:25

listen to this . Or you

39:27

can listen to a podcast while you change out the

39:29

ammo for the weapon . It takes too long . It's

39:32

just an ineffective and cumbersome weapon

39:34

that limits the mobility of the clone significantly

39:36

and I would say that overall

39:39

it's probably not other than covering

39:41

its niche .

39:42

It's not better than the standard dc-15

39:44

so the summary of this is the clone's

39:46

chain gun is as effective as their lifeline

39:48

yeah .

39:55

Next is their anti-tank

39:58

weapons for each of them uh

40:02

, for the hell divers

40:04

. While there are a lot of different ones , we

40:07

decided to go with probably the

40:09

best one , which is the RX-1

40:11

Railgun Stupidly powerful

40:13

, incredibly good at taking

40:15

out heavy targets , can punch

40:18

through most light cover and

40:20

pretty much all armor types . It's

40:24

incredibly effective on that part , and

40:26

for the clones , it is the what weapon . I know it's incredibly effective on

40:28

that part , and for the clones , it is the what weapon . I know it's one of the rocket

40:30

launchers rps6

40:32

rocket launcher standard all

40:35

right , and the clones for

40:37

the rps got a

40:40

40 to the

40:42

hell's 30 for

40:45

the railgun . And

40:48

the main reason for that is

40:50

the Rocky Launcher has six shots , it

40:52

has homing , it has incendiary

40:55

rounds , it has high

40:57

explosive rounds , it can be fired indirectly

41:00

and from cover . It links up

41:02

to clones helmets . They're

41:05

lightweight , the things aren't really big

41:07

. They're no bigger than an RPG seven and they're

41:09

actually smaller than that and they're

41:12

they're

41:14

particularly used for small vehicle

41:17

, small vehicle , scout vehicles or

41:19

infantry . It's

41:21

, the weapon is just particularly

41:24

well suited for this engagement

41:26

and it's their

41:28

standard rocket launcher .

41:35

What they don't have in the chaingun , they do have

41:37

in the rocket launcher . Sorry , God .

41:39

Yeah , no , no , absolutely , because

41:41

the chaingun is kind of a fail , the

41:44

Z6 is a fail , but

41:48

at least the rocket launcher makes up for that

41:50

. And then some . While

41:53

the rail rifle is good and while we could use

41:55

any of the other heavy weapons , we

41:57

just thought the rail rifle particularly

42:00

fit

42:03

the label of a heavy weapon

42:06

for tanks and vehicles

42:08

very well . And while , yes

42:10

, if we put tanks in here , the weapon would

42:12

probably score much , much higher

42:14

for this situation , in

42:17

a situation where both of them are shooting

42:19

at each other , the railgun gets to

42:21

ignore cover , while the other weapon

42:23

fires over buildings

42:26

around corners and is lightweight . Just

42:30

as a caveat , because we thought about it before

42:33

, it was well , why not

42:35

use the rocket launcher

42:37

for the Helldivers ? The

42:39

reason is their rocket launcher is huge , it

42:42

requires a backpack , it's

42:44

massive , it's not easy to carry around

42:46

. It's massive , it's not easy to carry around , it's

42:48

cumbersome , it's primarily

42:51

used against vehicles and has no particular

42:53

way of targeting anything that's small or

42:55

not massively thermal . It

42:59

just wasn't an effective weapon . In that sense

43:01

. It would be outdone

43:04

by the clones rocket launcher

43:06

and

43:09

many of their other weapons . They give them a heavy machine gun

43:11

. Same deal it's heavy , it's big , it's

43:13

not going to do the job . Essentially

43:16

it would . All of them would be outclassed

43:19

, and at least the rail rifle is the closest

43:21

one to being both effective against

43:23

infantry and

43:25

heavy targets , if it

43:27

were to apply .

43:29

And rule of cool .

43:30

Yeah , and rule of cool . We

43:32

did think about giving a number to all of the other

43:34

different versions of the weapons , but we just skipped that . Lastly

43:39

, special items , and we're

43:41

not really going to break down these individually because

43:43

there's a lot on both sides , but

43:46

we gave the hell divers a

43:48

50 compared to

43:50

the clone troopers 25 , and

43:52

it's almost entirely because the

43:54

hell divers just have a greater list

43:57

of special weapons that aren't limited to

43:59

a specific type of unit , while clone

44:01

troopers they do have lots of special gear

44:03

, probably far exceeding that of the

44:05

hell divers . A lot of their

44:07

very special gear is locked to being

44:09

specific types of clone troopers , special

44:13

squads , special unit

44:15

designations or

44:18

types of clones , and that locks

44:20

them out of a lot of their special gear , while

44:23

for the hell divers it's take whatever

44:25

the fuck you want . They

44:28

want to take a shield , take a shield . You want to take a

44:30

weird grenade , take a grenade . You want to take a detonating

44:32

cord or a detonation satchel or

44:34

a or trip mines

44:37

, or so they take them all . And

44:39

that's kind of the big

44:41

, the big differentiation

44:44

here that allows hell

44:47

divers to have so many different weapon types

44:49

and so many different gear

44:51

loadouts that clones can't

44:53

exactly keep up with that level

44:55

of variation . Uh

45:00

, that's , that tends

45:02

to end our score here . Uh

45:04

, quick caveat before we

45:07

give out our final answer

45:09

, and I know I think I said it earlier

45:11

we didn't bring any of the other vehicles

45:13

. We were going to add tanks , we're going to

45:15

add the mechs or any of that other stuff . The

45:17

reason why we left most of those out is we wanted

45:20

to compare squad versus squad , not

45:22

everything else , not

45:24

tanks , and we thought that as soon as you

45:26

added in the tanks or

45:29

any of the vehicles , the battle quickly shifted

45:31

in the clones favor far faster

45:34

, because let's be real

45:36

.

45:37

What is democracy going to do against

45:39

the fucking Star Destroyer ?

45:42

the difference in vehicles and

45:44

Star Wars focus on having

45:47

, especially for the Clone Wars era , having very

45:49

effective vehicles is

45:52

it throws it in their favor . So

45:54

so fast that we didn't have a comparison

45:56

. I didn't want to compare the

45:59

mech to , I

46:01

didn't want to compare the mech to the saber tank

46:03

. I didn't want to watch . It's like hey , do you want to

46:05

watch a guy inside of a big metal box

46:07

get cooked alive like

46:09

you threw a can of beans in a microwave

46:12

? Yeah , I didn't think so , and

46:14

so we skipped that one . But

46:18

moving on to the final score , it

46:20

is clone troopers 247

46:23

to hell divers 218

46:25

. While x factors may

46:27

have shifted the score in

46:30

either one's direction , overall

46:32

I think we can agree that clones

46:35

would win this battle at

46:38

least enough times to say that

46:40

they win on average yeah , I would say

46:42

60 is where I would go

46:44

for this because , no matter the terrain

46:47

, I think clones generally

46:49

will win just

46:51

better weapons for various terrain . They

46:58

can

47:01

do close quarters , fighting

47:04

in buildings they can do

47:06

, especially in any kind of situation

47:09

where there's long-range engagements

47:11

. The

47:14

DC-15 can just shoot

47:16

so much faster and so much further

47:18

.

47:20

Man , I've been playing too much Baldur's Gate . I was like , what do you mean

47:22

?

47:25

No , not a DC-15 . Save

47:27

, that's not a . It's not a thing . Yes

47:29

, you have been playing too much balder's gate

47:31

uh , it's a dc 12

47:33

yeah , it's a dc 12 , dc

47:36

, dc 15 . Save for them to

47:38

uh , it's a save or suck moment either

47:40

that . Either dodged or get sucked wait

47:43

pause . I don't think I meant

47:45

save it or get sucked . That's not what I meant

47:47

, anyway

47:51

close or

47:53

win most times in this situation

47:55

and that's just kind of how it is um

48:00

speaking of train , though good speaking

48:03

of train , uh , we did also talk about that .

48:05

Because of guerrilla warfare tactics , we did

48:07

decide that it would probably

48:10

swing much more towards the

48:12

hell divers . Oh , I don't know about much more

48:14

, but it would definitely swing towards the hell divers

48:16

in terms of , like favorable environment

48:19

if we moved it to a more urban environment

48:21

just because there's more to hide

48:23

and cover behind , as well as move around

48:25

and just do

48:28

guerrilla warfare .

48:29

Yeah , they can definitely take advantage of their slight

48:31

speed advantage and their slight strength

48:33

advantage in really

48:36

close corners and

48:39

, of course , the close quarters negates

48:41

a lot of the clone troopers advantages

48:44

from their blasters being greater

48:46

range and greater ammunition , because

48:48

it's close quarters . With

48:54

all of that being said , clone

48:57

troopers take the win and

49:02

, with that being said , thank you for joining us

49:04

for this episode of epic encounters and , with that being

49:06

said , thank you for joining us for this

49:08

episode of Epic Encounters . If

49:12

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49:25

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49:37

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49:40

you later guys .

49:41

Peace .