0:11

hello and welcome back to equity a podcast

0:14

about the business of start ups or we unpack

0:16

the numbers and nuanced behind the headlines i'm

0:18

is awesome as grants and this is our wednesday so

0:21

we nice down to a single topic think about

0:23

a question and unpack the rest to

0:25

they were asking is it the boots supper time

0:27

to jump on the venture treadmill and

0:29

as always i am joined by the inevitable

0:32

editor in chief of techcrunch plus hours long

0:34

alex how are you and how was going through

0:36

talked about that live in a while

0:38

they're going to was is higher it's growing

0:40

we're spending i mean just real thought dogs

0:42

brand talked about bootstrap unicode join with the realities

0:45

of business is why was it tougher month for

0:47

tc was we had a slightly higher turn that into the

0:49

pages but jerusalem can one said you know you're always

0:51

gonna have a quarter that's little bit strange and august

0:53

is off to great start so on the whole directional

0:55

a lovely july can screw us

0:58

fry care

0:58

are you doing a great job and i

1:01

actually really do think there's like something be said about

1:03

journalists putting on like a business and start

1:05

of hot and them becoming more empathetic reporters

1:07

i forget which journal which went solo

1:09

said this recently which was like i have a lot more empathetic

1:11

without newcomer which is i had a landlord the for

1:14

sort of threat now because i am talking

1:16

about things like turn and off quarters and stuff like

1:18

that so i'm got we have that perspective of

1:20

the zona

1:22

the newcomer examples i see a great intro point

1:24

because i don't think he raised external

1:26

capital for his publication

1:28

do cover he may have been some subject money but like

1:31

he was out there raising a series a and so effectively

1:33

bootstrap and he's making a go of and i think a

1:35

lot of us in the media rather have watching and i'll

1:37

just be honest cheering on the sidelines out because

1:39

while

1:39

oh hell yeah i mean food shopping

1:41

which is what we're talking about today has always been

1:43

something that i think journalists can relate

1:46

to and love to write about because it is this like

1:48

fight against the big guy ha the bc

1:50

backed behemoths someone pull themselves

1:52

up by their own bootstraps which is worth that word

1:55

com and the definition put simply is very

1:57

much like someone who uses money from

1:59

the business their own money to finance

2:01

their business to that next stage instead

2:03

of relying on may be a seed or

2:05

series around which is the majority of what

2:07

we talk about at the intersection of answer

2:09

the on

2:10

yeah our door the question few natasha

2:12

which is that how carefully do you define

2:15

the word bootstrap because for example you

2:17

could say if you ever took a dollar from someone

2:19

else you didn't bootstrap but if he raised five

2:21

kids from a you're rich cousin and

2:24

the never raised again to me your boots droppings i

2:26

am just years where you draw the line and kind of what counts

2:28

and what doesn't

2:29

oh that's a good question so i think like

2:31

someone who raised one hundred k from tax stars

2:33

and the never raised again i would stop them in

2:35

the boots up bucket i do think it's a little bit of like

2:38

chuck size that i would say makes a difference and

2:40

then also like what kind of investors they have

2:42

on their top table or the table in general

2:44

are they investors i'm an institutional fun or they just

2:46

super involves money is not correct

2:49

but i feel like i am pretty loose with my boots up

2:51

and definition

2:51

the i think is good and actually just go maximum

2:54

you said that minutes ago i think you're right it's

2:56

essentially a business that is self

2:58

funding to at least the vast degrees

3:01

this mostly cellphone in at a minimum sure maybe

3:03

the founders kicking and law but of money but the business

3:05

is paid for itself and it's of growth which

3:07

is in contrast to the venture world where you

3:09

raise money you hire folks and

3:12

you really spend ahead of your

3:14

revenue as a way to capture market share and so

3:16

forth the boots of companies can't do that because they

3:18

don't have money

3:19

exactly and it is a little bit of a range

3:21

and i was talking to our producer maggie about this

3:23

before the show that who have the privilege to boots

3:26

up unawares just and there's the people that

3:28

definitely will build this

3:30

really sustainable business from day one and make revenue and

3:32

and put that back into the business and then they're the people

3:34

who come from wells and i actually asked

3:36

a but sub founder in his view like how

3:38

often do they see fielders the super rich

3:40

people starting this of companies because they can afford to up

3:43

front that and he was like i see privilege

3:45

on both sides like the venture backed definitely

3:47

raised bunch of another good place afford to sell fund

3:49

and with them with bootstrap people about that was really

3:51

important nuance because in my head i kind of character and

3:53

beginning of episode i do imagine the boost up

3:55

that kind of these grassroots efforts

3:58

to put everything you want into the business in

4:00

reality it could be someone who can just afford

4:02

not pick a paycheck for a few years

4:04

and build the business and pro their money back into

4:06

yeah must be totally clear in

4:08

modern society which is capitalist having

4:10

money is good and having less money is

4:12

harder and that applies to this but i

4:14

do think the delineation between bootstrap

4:17

him and eventually world is pretty

4:19

clean in my view so sure we can quibble about the nuances

4:21

bootstrap in exactly what counts but it's

4:24

definitely not will be tens talk about

4:26

which is preceded seed series

4:28

a and then on down the chain towards an ip

4:30

our wishes the venture pathway

4:33

israel

4:33

definitely the reason we're talking about this today

4:35

is we've been seeing so much news about

4:38

venture and us are starting to be more disciplined

4:40

and care a lot more about business fundamentals

4:42

basically you need pride market bet if you wanna raise

4:44

a series a for example unlike before

4:46

where you could have raised a serious the while still in beta

4:48

not naming it says others because

4:50

of that reality for a while i've had this like soria

4:53

my to do less which is didn't help all boots up

4:55

companies this is the story of that some companies

4:57

in a way because they haven't relied on external capital

4:59

and they've had to get there in order to still exist

5:01

and it turns out that is becoming somewhat of a trend

5:03

where investors are several different hudson

5:05

from precursor about this she was like i have

5:07

invested more and bizarre companies this year than

5:10

years prior slightly more not extremely

5:12

but it's seeming to like it would fit the profile

5:14

where these hills sides would meet in the mid

5:16

okay so let let me on fact that a little bit of a

5:18

so that i'm tracking what you're saying that i'm picking

5:20

up where you're putting down i think is the as the phrase

5:22

so essentially bootstrap companies

5:24

were out of vogue i think for a while because

5:27

which are capital was going up in terms of capital disperse

5:29

per year valuations right axis or hot

5:31

and so the venture model was what we heard the most

5:33

about but his things get more conservative

5:36

your point companies that have a history

5:38

of self and in my be more attractive

5:40

to venture capitalists because these are proven

5:42

models that have pms because they're selling

5:45

their products in the market and have been self

5:47

funding and ministers now claim to love prof

5:49

abilities or is that the thing that making them can i

5:51

come up

5:51

i think so i think it's definitely like this ability

5:54

to so that they are a real

5:56

company and they have focus and

5:58

discipline as part of their like

5:59

we're going to have had a venture

6:02

still is

6:02

not all that needs outliers in order to

6:04

get returns and so i do think it's like this really nice

6:07

type of bootstrap company that going to want

6:09

to get on what one hundred describe as the bench

6:11

or treadmill woodrum a topic want to talk about because

6:13

i was hoping to hope he was really inspired the story

6:15

it's cofounder carbon chlumsky said

6:17

that if you're a boost up company who has not yet

6:20

on debenture treadmill you can kind of have that option

6:22

on went to get on with what they did recently

6:24

they raise a sixteen point five million

6:26

from precursor velvet see gray matter and

6:29

others and for dambisa that was really important

6:31

for them to build a business that they knew wasn't reliant

6:33

on venture capital before taking on set up

6:35

little which to me what kind of this differences in

6:37

the booze of company that can just say their boots shoved and

6:39

take on like appreciate after two years versus one

6:42

that took their time and then took on that capital

6:44

check

6:44

if you boost i did raise appreciate

6:46

you didn't really boost i'm you didn't build something

6:49

it's small still but it's fine but like any

6:51

boots i bet you have to like get somewhere to earned

6:53

the title is not a monitor you can post office

6:55

crime writer can earn it out there the markets

6:57

but natasha let's unpack venture treadmill

7:00

a little bit i know what they

7:02

meant but i'm curious if you could explain to folks

7:04

out there who might think raise one round

7:07

didn't stop you know

7:08

yeah i mean wasn't what we talked about on equity

7:10

so many times which is venture capital brings a boat

7:12

load of incentives with at the biggest one

7:14

in my view is that investors need like

7:16

this insane return on the company like

7:18

it's an ex return so if you

7:20

are a sort of the takes on venture capital you are

7:22

promising to these investors that you will give them

7:24

that return in some capacity to depending on what sector

7:26

at your end up can influence how aggressively

7:29

of to market how you to focus on customer acquisition

7:31

growth and customer acquisition costs as

7:33

a result out of the biggest difference as if you're venture

7:36

backed you need an exponential growth and if

7:38

you're not venture bucks you can have linear growth and

7:40

take your time and pursuing things and or

7:42

less pressure i would say it's kind of that that

7:44

were

7:44

in your own also throw in there like one

7:46

i totally agree with that but i think another new

7:48

wanted me to consider when think about the ventures

7:50

had no is just the way you set up your business

7:52

lazy raised to twenty million or series a

7:55

what do you do you hire you take

7:57

up your burnley you spend more money and

7:59

then some the your business is not sell

8:01

funny because you've increase to spend ahead

8:03

of revenues which is what sort of due to

8:05

again gain market share take over markets

8:07

be competitors back and go quickly it's probably

8:10

hard to go from a series eight nothing on

8:12

purpose it's some as you can do you have

8:14

to use by cutting staff and dude other kind of relatively

8:16

brutal things but i think once you raise and venture

8:19

capital money you're kind of like opting

8:21

in to this track towards

8:23

an ip ah effectively

8:24

hundred percent and that's really something about healthy

8:27

basically being like we needed to prove that our business

8:29

wasn't reliant on vc before doing it

8:31

because other we heard that too often i think we often

8:33

hear if you are vc bat we heard the start up saying

8:35

like these are founding investors of

8:37

us and this is so much proof of why we are

8:39

gonna be this outlier income cause it's considered

8:41

like a massive and snazzy sep of approval

8:44

i mean look all we talk about hurdles of the week are

8:46

centre backs start ups and i think that for a reason

8:48

because they are trying to swing the biggest

8:50

so i think it's really important to viewed as a treadmill

8:52

though because if we don't than it's kind of viewed as like

8:55

casual capital and it's not

8:56

the last night i was unable

8:58

i mean like venture capital relationships the

9:00

sounders last often longer than marriages

9:03

especially bureaucrat are also like this is

9:05

a partner that your breed and and they're going to own

9:07

a big

9:07

the company definitely what do you think about

9:09

the idea of these two sides which

9:12

is like the bootstraps and venture capitalists that

9:14

are looking for exponential growth starting to meet in

9:16

the middle as you feel like it's me be a blip

9:18

or do you actually that we're gonna see more of it

9:20

i think the question you put in front of of which

9:22

is is it the time for bootstrap companies

9:25

to get on the ventures cycle? if you will

9:27

is very good because it shows

9:29

that the changing market conditions could

9:31

imply that a certain quarter companies

9:33

that was previously ignored or less

9:35

enticing suddenly could become the hottest

9:37

thing in town so when we started talking about

9:40

this, i went back through some

9:42

old coverage to try to figure out when we

9:44

seen this before with

9:46

companies that have reached real scale

9:48

so think about like squarespace,

9:50

which was founded i think back in like 2003

9:53

and then it was six, seven, eight years until they raise

9:55

money and then later on, they raise a couple of nine-figure

9:57

checks, but they push up for a long time and the

10:00

into contracts which i first interviewed

10:02

back in like two thousand and fifteen on stage for to

10:04

have stayed boots out for a long time

10:06

then later on they raise a bunch of mine so

10:09

when i look at the history of this idea it

10:11

tends to be luck rebuild a company that has three

10:13

million dollars have a are are now with airways venture

10:15

capital money and provide some secondary and etc

10:18

i'm curious though if bootstrap

10:20

companies at an earlier sets

10:22

are now going to be the same doesn't ties

10:24

into investors who are a little bit before the gross

10:26

it

10:26

i think that ivanka with new hair it's not gonna

10:29

be at the xl kind of signing

10:31

that one hundred twenty million series a company

10:33

for the enterprise this as a mighty

10:35

the younger ones i did some mistakes

10:37

made your point if it does change and if it

10:39

does come earlier the way like everything feels

10:41

like it's going earlier i think some

10:44

boots up companies are going to have their

10:46

doors knocked on by venture investors

10:48

who are interested and maybe before they

10:50

didn't have the option now they do like when people have

10:52

options mistakes are made and all the big

10:54

successes created right like us are only

10:56

bad news i just i'm a little weary about

10:58

it is kind of like a temptation and if you are getting

11:01

capital offered to you at a time where you feel

11:03

like your business as you and really healthy and your competitors

11:05

your v c back competitors are having double round

11:07

of layoffs i think we might see like

11:09

an interesting conversation

11:10

started and yeah i think when it comes to see new

11:13

arrivals or a lot of money going through multiple

11:15

rounds last you going to end up with that german

11:17

word i can't pronounce about enjoying other people

11:19

suffering because you were eating off your own play

11:21

and they were at someone else is the same turns out they got

11:23

ingestion to complete a very strange

11:25

analysis by the same time if

11:27

you're a booster founder and you do go accompanied

11:30

even modest scale you're going to

11:32

hide in our the equity in your pocket you

11:34

have such a commanding stake in the business because

11:36

he didn't raise lot of money early on and capitals

11:38

the most expensive because the most risky i can

11:40

see suddenly how with interest up with scrounging

11:42

for a deal that is that a price the like you might

11:45

be like okay it's also a small

11:47

chunk of the company to i mean xl

11:49

is the have or example here but like another

11:51

dusters he well because the delusion isn't that

11:54

bad and the capitals available and why not

11:56

be more aggressive when you're bitter

11:58

rivals pushback rivals are slowing

12:00

down and trying to pull back

12:01

if it and will change on like how we think about how

12:03

these companies had to exist last year versus

12:05

this year a lot of investors recently

12:07

have been talking to me about how be downturn

12:10

of founders either seeking funding or at

12:12

the decline of start ups be able to raise

12:14

that next fund his net positive for the companies

12:16

that are making moves long term i

12:18

get put differently they're saying that the fact

12:20

that the amount of welp on a competitors

12:22

may be going down is great news for a

12:24

boost up company or for a new a said start up because

12:27

now it's no longer going to be as expensive

12:29

for them to when so yes you can down

12:31

the venture tunnel so to speak but you don't need to keep

12:33

adding more money to yourself you can take

12:35

on that first track and so when doing

12:38

dot is one of the arguments of hurt

12:40

yeah i like that a lot and i think

12:42

one thing we have seen in the last

12:44

couple of years kind of through as you talk

12:46

about the end of two and twenty one when things

12:48

began to turn was there been

12:51

more startups pursuing the same idea

12:53

or theme then we're going to be viable long

12:55

term but i didn't mean that they weren't

12:58

able to raise money and put it to work which meant

13:00

that the market was busy and i think

13:02

to this post up customer acquisition costs are caught

13:04

for a great number of companies i mean i started

13:06

to track startup clusters there was a concerted

13:08

market for that matter there was okay are south

13:10

cluster and i think we really saw just essentially

13:13

venture capital floating more

13:15

votes than the pond could really sit

13:17

and are probably leads to less

13:19

positive results for the eventual winner and

13:21

so if you're an investor you probably like

13:24

a more conservative market for

13:26

your own for folio to a degree

13:28

yeah it's kind of counter intuitive i was talking to

13:30

read points and he could rv they raise a

13:32

fund recently six hundred and fifty million for their

13:34

ninth fund and she was saying how like

13:36

the founder downturn in a way is kind of

13:38

good news because it is exactly the dynamic

13:40

that you're describing where the ones that

13:42

get their money will be able to like go

13:44

farther with that money bring that back

13:46

to like bootstrapped folks one of the founders

13:48

i spoke to payment tie the founder of

13:51

these may basically said that we're never going

13:53

to see a was jumping story as successful

13:55

as mail chimp which sold last year to end

13:57

to it for twelve billion because of how much it costs

13:59

to the company put it all really interesting point

14:01

and kind of a big one which is like for the books of

14:03

companies that are taking on ventura they're not

14:05

going to have the mail chimp type exit

14:08

where it's a boundary owned of the

14:10

business know what kind of gives you got

14:12

counter story of like it may be a great

14:14

time to be a bizarre can be and

14:16

get always venture offers but you know the outcome

14:18

zoo change the moment you take that money

14:20

yeah you don't really think about

14:22

how much money they're as venture capital back

14:24

to the point about mail chimp and

14:26

how different it is i think is worth

14:29

point of numbers i just grabbed the cb

14:31

insights que tu twenties when to

14:33

sit of it's report obscure status so

14:35

the city and said did a team for video at four

14:38

hundred pedro more sense you like

14:40

consistently if you look into this detachments

14:42

family appreciate he cooks because i read

14:45

as well and all of one hundred times

14:47

for quarter any with through

14:49

to through to year we have seen in

14:52

the world two hundred and fifty point one

14:54

billion dollars invested venture capital

14:56

which is essentially equivalent to all the capital

14:59

recently mountains it's only a couple

15:01

dozen billion blow all a twenty twenty which

15:03

this is what i've tweeted season so halfway

15:05

through this year a down year a

15:08

year in which things are supposed to be terrible

15:10

were essentially matching prior year full

15:12

totals in the first half of this year that's

15:14

a much my their as and so the dot on the meltdown

15:16

if i understand yeah it would have cost milsom

15:19

more money today to grow

15:21

because of essentially venture dollars

15:24

being poured through start up into digital

15:26

ads annals or wherever that would have grown they're caught

15:28

and never made it impossible to reach the scale be dead

15:30

at least at a speed they did without taking on

15:33

external front of their

15:34

yeah hundred percent i think that that is

15:36

kind of an insane of the moment to be covering

15:38

the subject because a part of me is like

15:40

if you like mills it was yesterday and a biblical lot of

15:43

these stories of extreme boots up and company

15:45

exits we're yet to com and so now i'm wondering

15:47

if we're not gonna see them as much

15:48

there were wealthy nexus it all right

15:50

now yeah like i just

15:53

shot the show me one all by

15:55

numbers in our car

15:56

i know i'm i'm thinking about you i'm like

15:58

what is i mean you're also very busy but i'm like

16:00

a for the do without one

16:02

oh did you know how would have had like to think

16:04

up new thoughts are so my day on the colonists

16:07

like when it's ideas even like others new

16:09

as when a the drug prices eighteen cool

16:11

thought about that sets up sorry i do

16:14

every morning that harsher than on my desk by talking

16:16

on like

16:17

now what is now

16:19

a little weird

16:21

or of your business emily vision to

16:24

exit tell our soon he needs something to

16:26

risk

16:26

i'm not an assessment we don't

16:28

hear about these companies much as you might otherwise

16:30

think and i think this important reason why which as

16:32

they don't create media friendly news

16:34

milestones and surgeries like wasn't a say

16:36

i spoke to put stabbings game or potter

16:38

why might are hearing about it it's because companies

16:41

like you know zap year start raising

16:43

money so they're not out here telling

16:45

us but why gray lock is their new busty

16:47

or whatever you know

16:48

yeah i put the marketing money to write

16:50

like as a journalist when i want most of my

16:52

stories to come from my own

16:54

outbound and searching and and someone

16:56

upon people of but i'll be honest like

16:58

a lot of times the companies that are right about can be

17:00

through pitches or at least concern

17:02

as a pitch sort of conversation as

17:04

i'm like damn like the fighter they're not even reaching

17:07

out or and bazookas it on the been within their busy

17:09

is interesting to me and i guess like that

17:11

some of the point where want to end in a way which is

17:13

like the idea of like help with something philosophy

17:15

can scale and adventure like setting

17:18

and to me that's a really fun tension

17:20

which is how will this of companies

17:22

on learn what they already were working on

17:25

and i guess in some ways like be okay

17:27

with being poached by venture i learned recently that

17:29

most was a calmness and they raise its on their toys

17:31

it's as because venture investors are knocking on their doors

17:33

consistently it's rare that someone

17:35

outbound they have to say yes right

17:37

if it's a as it's another idea what it is

17:39

a choice

17:39

yes exactly and so i guess i'm i am

17:42

i had i'm like okay it's like the thing i want to cover for

17:44

my fall of soil little bit of like how do you change your

17:46

philosophy as a sort of founder in real

17:48

time and kind of decide to take it on to me

17:50

to feel like a big deal and a norm a more conservative

17:52

person when it comes as financing but

17:54

it just feels like how do you teach you made so far

17:56

as

17:56

i don't think you do i think you start

17:58

work on it and then you girl out but i mean like

18:00

if you had the heat enough your own seed corn

18:03

for the first ten years your business

18:05

and suddenly you're a fifty million dollars i

18:07

really doubt you're going to go out and go crazy

18:09

with it because you're probably so accustomed

18:12

to mapping out near term our ally

18:14

managing cause floods and so forth that like you're probably

18:16

not their rights and silly checks at the same

18:18

time you do have to go from a scarcity

18:20

of mine said to an abundance ones that you do have

18:22

to realize that your been asked to run faster

18:25

and towards this particular target certain timeframe

18:27

that's the ventral treadmill in a nutshell so abilities

18:29

time and i bet is one of conversations with investors

18:31

about how to get away from be

18:34

afraid of spending and i bet actually the surplus

18:36

or investors help because i bet

18:38

they're like else you can afford on

18:40

the outside the ritz carlton know

18:42

quite go for it right

18:44

a suitor i'm in as you're saying that

18:46

it's so weird how full circle with com because

18:48

as this of founders learn how to spend more

18:51

money centre backs founders are learning how to

18:53

spend less money and what a moment it is for

18:55

them to be changing their mindset cause i hear

18:57

all of them say hello basically

18:59

i so i'll give you example career karma they

19:01

had a recent round of layoffs it was about

19:04

a quarter of sauce and in the

19:06

memo that ruben here as they're called on are sent

19:08

to their investors basically there are thing

19:10

that we're going to be able to be self funded for the next

19:12

three years and so in some ways we're seeing venture

19:14

backed sort of sit on the boots shopping mentalities

19:17

they had to have less in order to say that and have seen

19:19

so many founders said the same thing which is

19:21

kind of like and wrote his do we need to be able to not

19:23

have to raise for the next few years ago

19:25

maybe a loose definition of

19:26

wrapping but i do yeah i

19:28

feel similar that somewhere on the original

19:30

i would push back to the bitter that like say saying

19:33

that you're in a cell phone for three years

19:35

is telling me you have three years of

19:37

caution to your zero hour which

19:39

means that i do not sell funding your to die

19:41

in less quickly congratulations

19:44

right has it ever seen some funding isn't

19:46

easy money and cellphone and give them money or making

19:48

if you're

19:48

the money is because so funny was easy money is both

19:51

as it is just marketing spent

19:52

the treadmill edges of keep

19:54

up the keeps on going i feel like

19:57

a metaphor like i was wheatley hundred and has

19:59

artists to draw

19:59

like what it looks like to be under some not the the did not

20:02

seem easy at all

20:02

yes or will be your breath durban who is

20:04

an absolutely to work with but here yeah

20:07

he's always busy and i do i bother with equity

20:09

art or ,

20:11

i do i do a little it is the

20:13

country's news isn't as i said when we can barely walk

20:15

across the room to leon and be

20:17

like so i have an idea it's a dragon

20:19

but it's also a unicorn and it's upper

20:23

right got pissed

20:25

my my

20:26

that's what i said we have little drawing

20:28

so tool of random graphics that are not like

20:30

on

20:30

yeah i love you about the was you know i

20:32

was thinking about the interplay between a

20:34

more conservative market and money and how

20:36

that changes things and i was a about how

20:38

you know yeah in a more conservative market the

20:40

pendulum from founder feminist or swings

20:42

more towards investor power and and i was trying to square

20:45

that with boots or companies possibly

20:47

taking on more venture capital which seems

20:49

like instead it's like investors

20:51

have been more power but over these other companies out

20:53

of the kind of work and and then i realized it's not really

20:56

it's more of like a shared agreement because

20:58

the boots or can be doesn't need the money the v

21:00

c just wants to put it somewhere brother to be relatively

21:03

safe than sorry so much more adult to adulthood

21:05

off in which people who have the money have

21:08

the power and those who don't

21:10

don't

21:11

like got a lot and it really fits into what we

21:13

talked about because it is like very much like those

21:15

of companies because of the way that they started and

21:17

a have grown they don't need to sling

21:19

big girl right like no one needs it a

21:21

couple a society wants to me for

21:23

money and that's the funny part and it's the hard part

21:25

to get around a little that's because i'm a little like

21:28

if you can make more money why would you not

21:30

i think it's a lot about like how you believe a business should

21:32

be built and that's what it comes down to as the founder

21:34

if you're snub would love to be a found the one of conversations

21:37

which is like i'm not going to be the pre

21:39

seed company at out one hundred million valuation

21:41

but i will be a company that after a decade

21:43

of being village or take on from of your money and here's

21:45

will do that you can but me if you want to but

21:47

you'd you'd want to him on me as i'm not going insane

21:50

the way i girls the doing impersonating

21:52

boost up that you , what

21:54

we call a preview sort of that's where the hundred

21:56

million dollars so future smoking

21:58

crater

22:00

it is edited that always looking to style

22:03

and point about i'm learning things

22:05

and kind of if you go from be boost up to raising venture

22:07

capitalists go the other ways incredibly hard

22:10

i mean we saw this week goober

22:12

finally i recently read cash flow

22:14

positivity

22:15

the way for this bird i

22:18

had had when i started having this conversation

22:20

with the myself but hoover's finances so

22:22

it can take that long to wean yourself off

22:24

of a model those predicated on external capital

22:27

and high rates of burned in the names gross

22:29

so it's still no one but drugs

22:31

are fun and so as venture capital

22:33

about that story of that uber

22:35

sorry this morning i was like is

22:37

this real life and life actually couldn't cook into

22:39

cook into has been given me issues of

22:42

but i was very excited by another

22:44

common i'm probably for alex a years worth of

22:46

for have anybody to as that of an hoover of course

22:48

you don't plan isis and or know for

22:50

some reason i have really tie you to that company

22:52

because you cover them for so long since his kids

22:55

what are you i bet one of my index

22:57

fund has some shares of hooper some website

22:59

probably have some the don't like de minimis exposures

23:02

but i was happy to see that company makes

23:04

you grow out of not only it's thoroughly culture

23:07

but also it's early business culture and

23:09

i got a simile them and i think but it does go

23:11

to show that if you do get accustomed to

23:14

overheat in it's hard to ones linda

23:16

present i'm in the wintertime mouth very

23:18

much an interesting concept will keep talking about it alex

23:21

you are the bus thank you for joining me and

23:23

talking about the thank you i agree with

23:25

everyone else will be that on fridays

23:27

if you know of as he says size

23:41

hey everyone this is lucas mapping and i'm

23:44

anita ramaswamy we're launching a new tech

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crunch podcast called chain reaction

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digging into the world of crypto currencies

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and if teas and web three crypto

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the latest news drama and trends in plain

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and catholic along the way afraid

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now and your favorite part of ,

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yeah we'll see you soon