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this episode is presented by unit

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hello and welcome back to somebody

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at husband's podcast about the business startups

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where we unpack the numbers and the ones

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behind the headlines my name is out this

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is our friday shows i'm joined by the crew

0:33

with me i have mary and as a better rubbing

0:35

austin texas mary ann how leader

0:37

they're angry olives how's it going

0:39

this is when the single longest week

0:41

in history of technology and we have powering through

0:43

and we have lost talk about today

0:45

are which is why i'm glad marianne we bought along with

0:47

us the toss a mosque awareness natasha hello how

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are you

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it was a nuanced the sleek and

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month the numbers so can't complain we

0:54

ask for it

0:54

somebody you know we did

0:57

vog we've tempted fate and fate has

0:59

come through ethicists aren't on before

1:01

we actually get into the show we are going talk about

1:03

deals for maven patriotic prefabs

1:05

or in talk about launch house europe and twitter

1:07

but first this morning or thursday

1:10

morning novice on year this big news

1:12

is that adobe is buying sigma

1:14

for a stonking huge amount of money

1:17

twenty billion dollars on another

1:19

take but i'm curious before we

1:21

get into that were you to

1:23

surprised by this nonsense

1:25

yeah i mean it's a massive exit

1:27

and i think nobody

1:30

expected at twenty billion dollar

1:32

ah acquisition with these days

1:34

when he things i find interesting though is run

1:36

miller talk to sigma ceo

1:40

the and said that he really got

1:42

the impression that he's happy about the deal

1:44

be hunters the money of course he would

1:46

be happy about that but on

1:48

that he feels like it's a really good move for the company

1:50

and that it's gonna can remain a

1:52

semi autonomous and city inside

1:54

of adobe and so i thought that

1:56

was really interesting as they always

1:58

say always safe

1:59

yeah i do think the money

2:02

will obviously was what woke me up i completely

2:04

misses news but then my

2:07

friend was like adobe sigma was like no

2:09

way to see sigma exit for

2:11

double it's last presents are you a son ah

2:14

have sock has cash which i don't know that pretty

2:16

standard

2:16

yeah that feels that feels presenter for deal of the

2:18

size i mean adobe is not going to be sitting on twenty billion

2:20

in cash yeah because that'll just being in an

2:23

efficient way to kind of fund its business so

2:25

how's talk of cash i feel fine to me

2:26

what else would be thinking about the deal

2:28

the to me it's just a letdown like

2:31

it's great for sigma is great for investors

2:33

evans can make a lot of money has off but

2:35

like that the thing about sars that i really care but

2:37

it is their ability to kill off incumbents

2:40

right and here instead were seen

2:42

the incumbent essentially absorb

2:45

the challenger and to me that's always

2:47

going to be a little bit of a letdown because i will actually sigma

2:49

kill adobe you know by making them in so

2:52

much better that the old

2:54

generation doesn't get maintained

2:56

via the power of incumbency but instead gets crushed

2:58

sort of the boot of innovation so

3:00

we don't get that

3:01

the village sigma sold out

3:04

yes for twenty billion

3:05

technically if the upon

3:08

literally

3:09

yeah i mean area that with out on love

3:11

and respect our how could they not how

3:13

do we not answer this a selling out decide

3:17

to hear you saying bigger

3:19

image, focus, right? like, you're

3:23

not not going corporate,

3:25

you know maybe

3:26

but

3:29

doesn't the selling out to me it?

3:31

idea that and exit might be the that strategy like

3:33

alive egos existing sources

3:35

will get to later so that's my

3:37

like i guess other perspective is

3:40

like maybe this is made the most and for friedman

3:42

dot on , was what

3:44

made sense i don't know and it enough about adobe

3:46

to know why the synergies overlap

3:49

so hot that an exemplary the hopefully

3:52

run as working on something i'm sure your for sleepless

3:55

the debris version of this is a derby

3:57

took a material punjabis market cap

3:59

roughly the crap africa the number

4:01

fourteen percent somewhere in there and you

4:04

did as a way to defang a

4:06

potential company killer and

4:08

ah yeah that's how to think about this dobies pay

4:10

a lot of money and like revenue multiple times but

4:12

the really by a strategic competitor

4:15

and that's that's smart that's

4:17

a good thing for the company do in my view gas

4:19

or but as a startup watcher as someone who

4:21

really wanted that sigma as was assessed

4:23

set that i p o five is it it's a bummer

4:26

and you know it turns out sigma one of the bus from in

4:28

private marty companies out there you know how to present

4:31

they are growth for joe millionaire are into

4:33

this year cashflow positivity like i mean

4:35

there's a lotta love about and see i would have been a

4:37

of kick ass i feel yeah are but we won't

4:39

see it instead we'll get to see it as a line item

4:42

in adobe urged yeah i was nothing but he said

4:44

well done society all right

4:46

let's say let's turn back to the micro

4:48

talk about some starts first up is a

4:50

change of pace natasha or

4:52

maven and i am fascinated by the

4:55

church

4:55

yeah me than was that twenty twenty attacks

4:57

or of that launched with a good bit

4:59

of buzzing as it is all about spewing

5:02

cohort based class pot or i'm so

5:04

it's visuals really can we get your favorite

5:06

creators twitter influencers of mass

5:09

of audiences to create a class to

5:11

peel back be out there facilities and

5:13

, was two years in the making they raised twenty

5:15

five million dollars from injuries and first round others

5:18

and they keeps me this week saying that they're pivoting

5:20

from their original pitch basically admitting

5:22

that the hypothesis

5:25

that the hypothesis with a big audience will

5:27

have a greek chorus and be a great teacher

5:29

and have the impasse it and they

5:31

want it to have on students is wrong

5:34

and now they're going towards experts so

5:36

as opposed there because of the

5:38

pivot to the owed year is is a topic

5:41

okay i have to say

5:43

i think this is an excellent movie i've always

5:45

kind of doubted mavens previous

5:48

model and questions

5:50

as just because just because

5:52

has a lot of followers are as charismatic

5:55

on social media does not mean they are

5:57

going to make a great instructor does

5:59

not have translate into teaching

6:02

people so i feel like this was kind

6:04

of unnecessary move for me then or else

6:06

it probably would have just cratered

6:08

and shutdown

6:09

i was impressed and story that dot the techcrunch

6:11

road to see they sought a to get around nine million

6:13

dollars with impossible even last eighteen

6:15

months with scram got that shows traction

6:18

and to the can't turn away from that towards the new model

6:20

or takes a bit of bravery and also a does take

6:22

some real gumption to say up front

6:24

know be as all right we got that that wrong

6:27

we're going to be doing this now still have a variation of

6:29

the same same but certainly not exact same

6:31

melody

6:31

yeah exactly myrie it's i think

6:33

they're still budding on different definitions

6:36

of teacher had some are going to be only the professors

6:38

or a d like classically trained

6:40

teachers it it may now be like

6:43

the leaders within tech companies who are

6:45

you see giving meetings are used to having director

6:47

of words and that models to me

6:49

still feels like they're young they're invested

6:51

why not with the have we done by the company but they're pilot

6:53

little less of a a moonshot

6:56

in some ways and i don't mean that and about where i mean that i'm

6:58

like kind of like what you the author it's like i

7:00

respect the transparency there

7:03

so that those like those like just kind of excited and refresh to

7:05

see if the that

7:06

yeah i have a question about this because i

7:08

i i had put moving in the back of my mind as part

7:10

of the the broader ed tech slash creator

7:13

bumi saw during covert which was very

7:15

intellectual interesting but now it seems to be not quite the same

7:17

level of a attention that were a that we saw before

7:20

a it is is maven building

7:22

a kind of now upscale d

7:24

i y masterclass and before

7:27

it was doing like more casual

7:29

dui masterclass

7:30

i think that's a great comparison i

7:32

actually asked gaga and beyond either cove hundred

7:35

and the call where they put themselves between on

7:37

doc which tried to upskill professionals and

7:39

masterclass which is trying to make it all live

7:41

and scalable and

7:43

he he did admit basically that the

7:46

only you have wanted to and thought of themselves

7:49

as like a more serious education

7:51

companies but it's super fair to say

7:53

that they're getting less or more with an entertainment

7:55

and more towards serious attack

7:57

which i mean yeah for my pentagon

8:00

the senses is a good

8:02

feel like this is the i n although yeah

8:04

i was the critique that marion you bar of they've

8:06

always had is had is be as it's pretty

8:08

hard to do so

8:10

yeah now i'm curious if it's pedagogy

8:12

or pedagogy are actually no

8:14

they got ryan that professor

8:16

yeah the opposite aren't speaking

8:18

of changes at the world of creators

8:21

patriarch this week announced a relatively

8:23

stiff number of layoffs or seventeen percent

8:25

or kind of roughly one sixth of the companies

8:27

gonna be let go and we'd also heard

8:29

recently that pitch round as they can changes to it's security

8:32

of son up by letting got internal team and

8:34

i think anymore and extra to and if i understand

8:36

well as doors kind this is

8:39

a part of what i think of as the natasha

8:41

lay off beat on that i wanted

8:43

to go ahead and just think about it in terms of here

8:45

we are seen are company that is building a recurring

8:48

revenue stream taking stream portion of it i'm

8:50

cheating it it's starting goals

8:53

in the near term which to me implies

8:55

probably slower than dissipated

8:57

growth and my question from this is

9:00

does that mean that the creator economy is

9:02

in effect not living up to

9:05

investor and startup expectations

9:07

i mean i think it goes back to kind

9:09

of the point that we're making with may then

9:11

right now where it were in a very different environment

9:14

market we're not in the middle the pandemic

9:16

we're all just at home you know

9:18

as board as we used to be on

9:21

and you know

9:22

money is a little tighter for most people

9:25

so i think when you're looking to cut your

9:27

budget

9:28

then you're if you're weighing essentials

9:32

and you have you a a to a creator

9:34

i mean unfortunately that's probably going to be one of the first

9:37

things you cut right

9:38

one hundred percent like i think with layoffs

9:40

it can be like this weird thing where i

9:43

want to say oh i see it represent laid off dot means

9:45

been tech a struggling crude or economy is struggling and

9:47

i think that's always true to a certain degree

9:50

i'm , what i have kind of what

9:52

would i do kind of notice is in this last it really

9:54

impacted their international talent and

9:57

to me that felt less like

9:59

the

9:59

typically nice response to

10:02

than struggling to get people to renew

10:04

contracts or to bet on fried or as and more like

10:07

patriot michael ton of company as if not

10:09

going to be as experimental with it's

10:11

growth or emphasis with growth and

10:14

so maybe it's a doubling down on what

10:17

not kneel and what's already heading

10:19

these different milestone

10:21

taking fewer flyers on expanding

10:23

sales and marketing and europe and hoping to guy

10:25

grow that market may be in advance of

10:28

decatur economy their recent similar per capita

10:30

skills the us i all that makes

10:32

sense is just it's

10:35

disappointing and we were talking about eighty people

10:37

and we're talking about a company that reza bunch of money

10:39

relatively recently and so this is one of those

10:41

kind of crappy decisions that you have to make

10:44

but it does seem that over

10:46

hiring in the twenty twenty

10:48

one era was i was gonna

10:50

say pandemic that just seems like rid on

10:52

was legion area but it was everywhere and was across

10:55

multiple industries to toss it not just been to acknowledge

10:57

the creator economy but really kind of seems that

10:59

everyone over iran

11:01

oh my god yes to twenty percent number

11:03

like keeps coming and

11:06

i brutal i'm in snap

11:08

just laid off people to i think we are

11:10

seeing the the sort of in like

11:12

the broader creator book it's economy

11:14

having a good laugh maybe differently

11:16

than mere and i feel as know the bigger than

11:18

tesla the same size same age are

11:21

not and i don't have the like the connective tissue to make

11:23

their but i am a little like well

11:25

there's some of the unicorn that i expected to have

11:27

like skin just the way are not have a layoff

11:30

i don't like what's happening there yeah obviously

11:33

yeah obviously start hauling the conversation but

11:35

if there are companies that can help

11:37

people are other businesses save

11:39

money cut costs they're more likely

11:42

to be resilient right now whereas

11:45

companies like this one that you know

11:47

not diminishing that it's doing by any means

11:49

but again we're talking about

11:51

library third and of purchasing or

11:53

subscriptions vs like necessity

11:55

and so against those those companies

11:58

can really so ten

11:59

the bomb at the how you in terms

12:02

of helping someone save then

12:04

they're more likely

12:05

do okay i guess you know it just

12:07

reminds me a lot of the vitamin vs

12:10

aspirin framing that we see a lot in the world

12:12

of business software like are you sign of vitamin which

12:14

is that a nice to have or is on an aspirin

12:16

and i wonder if in the consumer space that

12:18

dichotomy doesn't really fit in everything's kind

12:20

of just vitamins of varying degrees

12:22

of impact and it's that's the case the

12:24

river was a more variable based on macro conditions

12:27

am i wrong in saying that petronas definitely

12:29

people's livelihoods though like beyond people

12:31

who work a feature on greater need

12:33

and lean on feature on fully for

12:36

kind of their community and how they make

12:38

money that that's what i feel like is difficult

12:40

so obviously it like what

12:43

like jump into being a creator right now

12:46

maybe that's not bitter not getting that new people

12:48

but maybe i saw thing with the people

12:50

who have been on he'd run for forever because it's an old company

12:53

i'm like their livelihoods and pie gonna with that

12:55

the they forgot what it is kind of

12:57

authentic company to that price will live with that

12:59

if we take away all the branding every company

13:02

every company's authentic companies are we had to

13:04

say

13:04

no i mean you're not only babbage's

13:06

descriptions anti company which were apparently

13:08

out everything on a so i

13:10

was curious about that the course us intelligence or

13:12

i'd pulled up a i forbes article

13:15

discussing d four

13:17

billion dollar valuation dollar pitcher gonna put together and according

13:19

to this forbes fees the company had distributed

13:22

around billion dollars in at twenty twenty

13:24

seven twenty asked about you know can people

13:26

you know the there i

13:29

creed or focus lifestyle business around

13:31

these real ugly the answer is yes i

13:33

don't know how big of a pool that is but

13:35

i mean certainly about a twenty two a number

13:37

it's gone up and said the amount of money flowing through

13:39

patriotic does it and give it a scale of been

13:42

a place where people can generate a lisa

13:44

a chunk of their livelihood on a per person

13:46

basis and so i hope at this

13:48

is not indicative that that pastry on model

13:50

has reached a growth of slowing

13:53

point but instead more they we should be

13:55

more profitable everyone's talking about that lets term

13:57

staff and and focused on a what's working what

14:01

we've learned talk about or trimming done folks you know what's

14:03

working somehow marianne after the implosion

14:05

of qatar us prefabs not

14:07

dead and i'm perplexed

14:09

shot happy and synced by

14:12

this is

14:12

it's not at all

14:14

as as written about and numerous

14:17

prefab companies that have raise money over

14:19

the past year or so paul are

14:21

of one of our london reporters covered a uk

14:23

startup com module us on that

14:26

is is doing is giving housing

14:28

developers construction companies away

14:30

to configure design modular

14:32

homes a few things

14:34

that things thought was interesting about this

14:36

one of the most capital intensive things about

14:39

construction

14:40

in rebuilding his you know you have it's materials

14:43

and and like having to figure

14:45

out you know where you're going to build

14:47

and all that so what what modulates is doing

14:50

its first of all it's got really sounds

14:52

like very interesting software are specific

14:54

to each building site and then they've

14:56

built this like kit of parts so

14:59

they deliver this kit of parts developers

15:01

can like build multi tenant apartment

15:04

blocks right and instead of having to fit

15:06

a victories in these remote

15:08

random locations i'm the

15:10

the supply chain partners deliver what they

15:12

call sub assemblies to facilities close

15:15

to the building site which their leasing so they save

15:17

money that way to there's there's a lot of

15:19

reasons why this is supposed to be good

15:21

i'm good better for the environmentalists

15:23

materials and helps

15:25

address the housing shortage so i

15:27

mean i i'm here for prefab for

15:30

prefab in theory i think it has to be

15:32

done right to be successful obviously

15:34

qatar the didn't do something

15:36

right but i'm not saying

15:38

the is right

15:39

it's not it's not bad overall i think

15:41

it could be great if again if it's done correctly

15:44

he was remember wife could tear us apart

15:46

it's like kind of a distant memory in the back

15:48

of my has so own and i guess

15:50

that's the reason i'm asking candidly as is

15:52

this company differentiated and

15:55

surprising to you guys enough where it's

15:57

not surprising to see it get funded after sarah

16:00

hello

16:01

you know i have to have to think back but i

16:04

i don't remember i like see i feel like there was just

16:06

a lot of poor poor decisions

16:08

around

16:09

the only i think the thing that guttural wanted

16:11

to do and i'm i'm contentedly over my

16:13

skis here so please and all your complaints to

16:16

on someone else does not me or

16:18

bucket tara was trying to do the prefab

16:20

construction itself so it was going to prefab

16:22

a lot of the that wall panels and so forth

16:25

and while i was reading about module

16:27

as my impression i

16:29

i i to press paul about this because i'm

16:31

curious about that the nuance of the model itself but

16:33

he doesn't seem to have quite as much exposure to

16:36

the creation of components

16:38

themselves and i wonder if having

16:41

a slightly higher level more software

16:43

is focused again if i'm reading and understand that

16:45

middle them all correctly it's a more durable

16:47

corporation and qatar

16:49

also race opic money and then tried to go boom

16:52

and that actually went home and then you know the

16:55

yeah good point any modulates is not

16:57

it's helping the developers build

16:59

with it you know with its software in these kids

17:02

it's not doing that building itself

17:03

which is smart because constructions

17:06

hard and probably lower margin than software though

17:08

you know if you get all the companies gonna grow quickly

17:10

i think that makes a lot of sense of loss

17:12

not here is that the housing shortage agrees

17:15

to pieces are four million houses in the u s

17:17

and five million in the uk and uk

17:19

has like a small fraction of the us population

17:21

so oh my god a failed some houses

17:23

do a better what

17:26

does gusto uber shopify at angeles

17:28

all have in common they all decided

17:30

to build banking into their product to accelerate

17:33

growth reduced customer acquisition costs

17:35

and create game changing new revenue

17:37

stream the unit in the market

17:40

leader and thinking as a service combining

17:42

multiple big partners with a developer friendly

17:44

a p i to empower companies of all

17:46

sizes to launch count cards

17:49

payments on landing in just a few it the

17:51

unit a trusted by leading brands such

17:53

as angel as high beams and voice to go

17:56

and restart to hear more about

17:58

how unit and they both companies like war is

18:00

to build baking

18:01

the movies equity

18:09

right oh we're going to go

18:11

ahead and talk about something that's a little bit more difficult

18:14

and so we're going to leave you with a small a

18:16

preamble about this and if you don't wanna do

18:18

it you can just skip the next segment

18:19

so before we jump into the

18:21

next segment just want to give all listeners

18:24

a quick trigger warning that we're going to be talking

18:26

about sexual assault and harassment so

18:28

we will not be offended if you want to avoid

18:30

this content altogether skip to the thirty minute

18:33

mark and if you're in the u s the

18:35

national sexual assault hotline is one

18:37

in hundred six four six four

18:39

six seventy eight let's talk

18:41

about launch house i mean this news broke

18:43

sunday evening a box investigation

18:45

by rebecca jennings

18:48

and it's been a company that i've covered since

18:50

the beginning of the pandemic because

18:53

honestly been out of the answer to hacker homes

18:55

you that remember where for something about hacker

18:57

whom coming

18:58

yeah people kind of coming together and in one

19:00

domiciled on as a loose group

19:02

and doing stuff and either in

19:04

coordination one hour or least in proximity with

19:07

other folks who had a similar tucker started

19:09

be entrepreneurial mindset

19:10

exactly so dot in

19:12

person physical home let's rent

19:14

paris hilton beverly manson idea

19:17

ended up getting venture funding pretty soon

19:19

after starting and eventual getting even more

19:21

venture funding led by injuries and were with

19:24

other investors include fly bridge capital

19:26

ah and a bunch of other big names

19:29

intact that on will talk about later

19:31

so this company has all those

19:33

buzzy factors of being a community focus vc

19:35

back injuries and less isn't funny

19:38

and the backstory unpacked

19:41

the fact that there's multiple allegations

19:43

from around just basically the abuse of

19:45

power that it's happening with and the house

19:47

so there were reports of possible drugging

19:50

of sexual assault of they're

19:52

just not being security or a safe

19:54

place for founders

19:57

you entered the homes to exist

19:59

and work the from the cofounders and

20:01

there was a lot of allegations of abuse of power

20:04

and so a lot of kind of the spears and question

20:06

marks around hacker homes and

20:08

were that means roll really fast

20:10

and game b c funding and snow righty candidly

20:13

as cofounders during a pandemic we saw play

20:15

out now i guess around two years after

20:17

i first heard about on charles yeah

20:20

any and went first of all might be dating myself

20:22

but

20:23

when i first heard about this i thought about

20:25

on mtv the real world's

20:28

are you guys do you remember they ugly yeah

20:31

okay so like mtv came up with it's reality

20:33

show where they paired all these people up and how

20:35

senate new now and the rest of us

20:37

would much it and kind of fascination and works

20:40

on but really

20:43

that's the first thing i thought his arm and

20:45

then like a twelve point nine million

20:47

dollar mansion in beverly hills sexiness

20:49

as it all to me like you know

20:51

if you're if you're really serious about trying

20:54

to still to start up build community

20:56

and mean do you have to do and hundred thirty

20:58

million dollar mansion in beverly hills

21:00

like what what is your goal here

21:02

question that i had was just about the model the

21:05

of the company because if they were

21:07

offering to waste on community one was a think

21:09

we got one thousand dollar yearly fee or

21:12

three kids you arrive for a month the

21:14

the amount of cash for that could be generated from community

21:16

per se doesn't seem to me

21:18

to be too great for

21:20

a given that they're renting you know

21:23

eight figure mansions there expenses

21:25

must have been relatively high so

21:29

i wonder if some of the the

21:31

issues that came up involving maintenance

21:34

security and so for things that

21:36

are pretty important for providing housing you

21:38

know which is a very specific thing i

21:41

wonder if there was a disconnect between venture

21:43

economics expectations and

21:45

the reality of what was being built and if those

21:47

tensions lead to just poor

21:49

oversight bad decisions and lot of lot

21:51

of mistakes some of which appear to be less

21:54

than but i

21:55

you're spot on that tension between

21:58

lots spending and being

22:00

in the housing world and an author what marianne

22:02

bar on your actually you're so right and bringing

22:04

abril worked as an example because wanted actually

22:07

began think the barn talking about launches really begin

22:09

to trying to be a reality show it

22:11

one you know they're set up cameras that of the

22:13

do pool livestream than a

22:15

, of that color when it's being launched

22:18

at to the public in the first month

22:21

just sounds kind of like scrappy dot in public

22:23

life that as you see it scale

22:25

odyssey people get hundred millions of

22:27

venture capital it feels a lot

22:29

tougher on i was about be

22:32

like idea of what this means for company they're

22:34

trying to disrupt our community

22:37

with touch with them so much in the company i feel like launch

22:39

house is one extreme not

22:41

just for it's allegations but because it is

22:43

like this in person hacker home i'm

22:45

renting out mansion and from

22:47

day one has wanted to get attention

22:50

and be buggy be have this or around

22:52

it had with you but what that does

22:54

the rest of the companies in the sector

22:57

well when i hear the word community mostly

22:59

it it's in a web three contexts these days

23:01

people in the the the blockchain to centralize

23:04

a economic world love to talk about i'm

23:06

it's all about community which seems to be about

23:09

spending time in some social contacts

23:11

with like minded folks who are either

23:14

believing in the same idea or chasing

23:16

this in profits and and but

23:18

p r o f i t they're not profit as and religion

23:20

and that's all digital though mostly i mean

23:22

there are corporate conferences and so forth but to community

23:25

mosley means a vaguely moderated discord

23:27

server our community in this

23:29

case is isn't a very different and i think we

23:31

just saw the wing and cease to

23:33

exist jealous of the recently that wasn't other

23:36

ah at a very different

23:38

to be clear attempt at providing real

23:41

world locations where folks could conquer

23:43

gates are the had a similar he says vibe

23:45

or whatever and are i

23:47

wonder if just simply put real

23:50

world community not

23:52

a venture back about business answer

23:54

to me my my take a ways that from

23:57

the him a part of a lot of other stuff to

23:59

be clear but the answer the question

24:01

not that i think that's

24:02

that often conclusion alex

24:05

and emma

24:06

i don't want house also focus

24:08

on like web three your read

24:10

the allegations that are coming to

24:12

light hard to me evergreen

24:14

relevant if you did something a

24:16

year ago didn't go with it it's a year ago

24:19

but i will say they around

24:21

a year ago sorry pivoting to more digital

24:24

bogus advance and community and

24:26

they introduce their online membership

24:29

and some of the allegations existed only

24:31

when they had that in person experience

24:34

the handling so happened poorly

24:36

report said wonder emperor's it's

24:38

by a the the rhythm same as alex

24:41

they probably had that realization to there

24:43

are we can't do this and person does

24:45

a lot of like in a challenges of trying to get

24:47

founders and a professional setting to live

24:50

in a house together i

24:52

mean however decreases

24:54

and from day one and only i want as a surprise

24:56

reading the story on on bushnell

24:58

yeah but also like as i

25:01

guess tone isn't

25:03

important thing i think about hear that there's a missiles

25:05

in silicon valley and by that i mean the broader technology

25:07

community slash world about

25:09

scrappy beginnings and working

25:12

out of subpar locations to build

25:14

than expecting there's like various garages

25:16

and small buildings in or around

25:18

the cupertino menlo park power

25:21

to area birth hp was founded or

25:23

apple or whatever why

25:26

do you need to live in paris hilton's

25:28

of house to do something interesting

25:30

to me it just it it's a it's a beacon

25:33

attracting the less serious

25:36

maybe is what i'm thinking

25:37

yeah i'm not going to make any

25:39

assumptions about the people who participated

25:42

obviously but my concern

25:45

was what we were talking about earlier is that

25:47

other incubate or other

25:50

m organizations trying to build community

25:53

that weren't necessarily trying to see

25:55

so much attention or be so buzzy

25:58

are going to really be hurt by this i'm

26:00

enough unfortunate

26:02

yeah i i've i've been thinking

26:04

a lot about distortions the came out and

26:06

of especially in light of how many people are talking about it

26:08

on twitter and sharing like oh i heard that i heard

26:10

about desert but i her about other things this is be

26:12

a lot of aggressive as particular

26:14

mouth but content moderation

26:16

very hard right i was a community

26:19

moderation in a digital context is is

26:21

or isn't higher level higher and harder

26:23

and then to cure a physical spaces and

26:25

provide security ah with even

26:28

an additional digital layers me and ah but

26:30

that's probably it very very very hard

26:32

and so i don't think is models impossible i just

26:34

think you have to have the right skills and

26:36

my focus or you're gonna go out and approach

26:39

and probably also not risen from

26:40

hundred percent i mean look like above in germany real quickly

26:43

from over the next upset because i want

26:45

the allegations were hearing about are one of the

26:47

concerns and probably reasons

26:49

why people haven't started hacker homes

26:51

are we don't see why palmyra greeting school

26:53

and air bnb for all their founders to go

26:55

into every batch ah and

26:57

so i've been really interested in

27:00

the actual silence from launch houses investors

27:03

around like what happened to this poll

27:05

of incomplete that they poured money into and

27:07

are now seeing pay some very

27:09

serious allegations what are

27:11

you reading the bc reaction

27:13

right now he's the only thing that i'm missing

27:16

i mean of as unsurprising i think

27:18

a lot of these firms who who can't

27:20

wait to get press minutes or something positive

27:24

when i'm up hundred negative

27:26

publicity like that's that's not surprised

27:29

so ironic

27:29

well it it's infuriating

27:32

on a not it's it's not surprising i

27:34

also i also wonder how much information

27:37

was flowing back to a first a smaller

27:39

busters you know people who wrote a small

27:41

checking the can be pointed that information rights of

27:43

live i didn't have this information but we haven't

27:45

heard a lot from him fathers' on

27:47

the record or not via

27:50

council i think of maybe the way

27:52

to phrase the space on what i'm hearing from around from

27:54

folks but there does seem to be a response it

27:56

is don't seem to be at a publicly worded

27:58

one that might

27:59

the

28:00

useful

28:01

yes and let us remember we have president

28:03

hair was dispose of a again

28:05

a very different kind of situation but

28:07

david dope rec the founder was included

28:11

in a business insider investigation where

28:13

they unveiled that one of the members

28:15

of blog squad that he worked

28:17

with had allegations against them

28:20

david of a sub down a lot of venture capitalists

28:22

then said we are stubborn

28:24

old hazardous bow and will donate any

28:26

future proceeds from potential

28:29

returns on to spoke to a

28:31

different nonprofit especially around assault

28:33

prevention so that's right that's what i

28:36

am holding onto right now to see that happening

28:38

i'm not saying i'm voting for anything necessarily

28:40

but like we have an example

28:42

we have editor and there's a positive president

28:45

yeah and you are welcome to fall at gifts egg

28:47

that in malaysia what here's the

28:49

lamest like wedding the average of speaking

28:51

of intercom

28:52

the of

28:54

every sentence the city that for like me

28:56

well snow flakes have

28:58

started out your we should do for april fools actually we

29:01

should we should just do a show in which every company we talk

29:03

about them made up company were like that sleeps

29:05

walk raise the forty eight billion dollars series came

29:07

from maybe give up and then people will be like

29:09

holy bebop you haven't pitch them yet yeah

29:13

anyways speaking about alphabet soup and venture capital

29:15

firms are europe is europe

29:17

is active and the what am i your from

29:19

particular context which is that in the

29:21

old days there was one of conversation about

29:24

how if you were europe you might want to

29:26

move your founders to america

29:28

are you may want to move a chunk of your business united states so

29:30

you can attract money from ah

29:33

a larger more mature and more active

29:35

a bucket of of of capital access essentially

29:38

that's changed lot now lot of american investors

29:40

go to europe to invest but lately

29:42

natasha married and we have seen quite a number

29:44

of investors are popping up in europe

29:47

or raising bigger larger funds with

29:49

a focus on year at yes but

29:51

also a sub regional focus on europe looking

29:53

at different parts of that particular continent which

29:55

to me would be considered the ruin a capital

29:57

news bbq t news

30:00

and i'm disaster or

30:02

other something really your of and i to me

30:04

it really seems that the europeans are

30:06

up and thus the market has matured of the point of been

30:08

i'm entirely self sufficient

30:10

yeah i mean i was reading about ruin a capital

30:13

and after twelve years and us

30:15

they were based in palo alto they picked

30:17

up and their lives their headquarters to luxembourg

30:20

on because it wants to refocus it's attention

30:22

on the european market

30:24

wow yeah absolutely and you have what

30:26

a surprise natasha given the historical

30:29

epicenter of startup dumb been not

30:31

just the us but one small part of california

30:33

oh my god yeah i it's actually

30:35

great time for as be talking about that because i just

30:37

met deals cofounder a show weighing

30:40

for coffee i'm in san francisco

30:42

the swedes are rare san francisco visit

30:45

for her and she would explaining

30:47

how one we're seeing

30:49

a lot of us these companies treat

30:52

their international talent a lot more seriously

30:54

so it's not just contractors it's not just part

30:56

time people are and this is that's it's like

30:58

full time operations i'm

31:01

but the more interesting part was she was like it's not

31:03

just the us hire outside people

31:05

are like from from internationally are

31:07

like sides with more at us tired

31:09

and sorting to base their own book as international

31:12

would have been is helpful for us three basically

31:14

us remembered methods of yeah

31:16

we're not essential doubled anymore and that is so refreshing

31:19

of the at happen

31:21

the i mean i

31:24

agree to of dispute that just for the sake

31:26

of of have been contrary of

31:28

the united states still by far the reading

31:31

market before technology investment and

31:33

i would say for startup capital formation a

31:35

company building and as you saw from

31:38

the deal today for mega acquisitions right

31:40

i mean thick was based in san francisco and was

31:42

bought by debate which is an american company ah

31:45

i agree that there is now less

31:48

grub vidic draw you the united

31:50

states there was before india is now

31:52

huge europe is huge ah

31:55

we've talked a lot about africa and the shown how ya

31:57

capital investment over there has exploded

32:00

along with it an enormous boomer of an

32:02

activity latin america all

32:04

this matters the and i would

32:06

you say the the u s still matters the most be europe

32:08

now matters more to the point in which as a break

32:10

down the us into midwest east coast west

32:12

coast southeast southwest we're not

32:15

talking about se europe vs say

32:17

just friends in the uk

32:19

the make me happy to see like zoom investing

32:22

and for that's not the only thing but dimon messing probably

32:24

speeding up the innovation and smear and i

32:26

know in the fun tech world that's probably you're

32:28

probably constantly being trapped into your of well

32:31

i'm yeah yeah with of course the have to bring center

32:33

going to die and synthesis definitely

32:35

europe is been known for a long time

32:37

to be way ahead of the u s when it comes to

32:39

to syntax so from that respect

32:42

europe is than winning that race i

32:44

think and the us scrambling

32:47

to catch up so

32:49

i don't i don't know how much any about has to

32:51

do with it success over like the

32:53

past couple of years but

32:55

that's an interesting trend to see i mean i

32:58

wear it we're so used to foreign

33:01

vc firms opening offices in

33:03

san francisco or palo alto or menlo

33:06

park i'm just kind of

33:08

it's kinda cool and refreshing to see the opposite

33:10

happening right now oh yeah i think like

33:12

i did a little extra credit homework before the

33:14

show yeah

33:17

i was looking at the i'm

33:20

the i'm a money that syntax in europe raised

33:23

and it was basically like data

33:25

from deal room shows that been checked companies in europe

33:27

raised a total of thirteen

33:29

point five billion in the first half

33:31

of this year surpassing when

33:33

he won first half which was thirteen

33:35

point four billion two small increase

33:38

but as increase guys like right

33:40

that's crazy aside him so excited

33:42

by it and right

33:44

framing that i mean are either company

33:46

sells for to x it's final private

33:48

market price people often

33:50

say like it's a strong i say but the most recent

33:53

investors probably were hoping for

33:55

all a large of return on their capital than that

33:57

and it would be considered other now but

33:59

in tweet to do double a twenty twenty

34:01

one era valuation which is what sigma dead is

34:03

a complete to rights and dot other

34:06

i think it is the year over your contacts

34:08

in this case why the houses so did augustus on

34:10

the last point about forty move on to twitter what

34:13

really struck me from card the cotton stories that were

34:15

discussing visually can the show notes is that

34:17

we're seeing funds of all sizes so like

34:19

yes five hundred a symbol did rebrand to

34:22

five hundred armor to europe with the seventy mil your

34:24

of fund but also worse

34:26

the issue t put together a multi billion

34:28

euro vehicle and so we're seeing capital from

34:31

the earlier stages through the later stages

34:33

implying dot maturity the europe has always

34:35

kind of id been reaching for so that will

34:37

you don't just read series be and than half god

34:40

plane to san francisco or new york

34:42

and has dried out direct line super

34:44

clutch and enchant your bonus off and

34:47

i really hope that macro economic

34:50

and energy situation in europe does not dampen

34:53

the entrepreneurial spirit of

34:55

of place

34:55

marriage that the to get a macro homes that i asked

34:57

complete take a back they do not a hacker

35:00

home knowing the entire home civil or

35:02

, idea that idea little a living

35:05

with brendan and making stuff is cool yeah living

35:07

of your living of know like mia i don't

35:09

my dogs around hospital and like out of us

35:11

watch out of us in a slum also

35:13

oldham stodgy now so you know

35:15

no i couldn't sleep fisher thing i'm like wait

35:17

is alpha seven animal any suspects

35:19

assess assess

35:20

what are you equity confessions this as a

35:22

second one

35:23

your take on time by the way i feel like i don't know

35:25

about yeah yeah we we have no choice

35:27

because my daughter's highly allergic ah

35:30

although my son recently got a hamster

35:32

so i'm but now but to the

35:34

point of like yeah i mean it's hard enough to

35:36

live with people you love more than

35:39

a life so too late the

35:41

side voluntarily to live with a bunch

35:43

of random strangers nothing

35:45

i think i think this is not

35:48

that model of living going cycling

35:50

member college like i have roommates a goal

35:53

i love that that's never as well

35:56

that for it's a different because you

35:58

were younger and you have lower the entrance that

36:01

i've now you may only be

36:03

where you lust them lust them to be clear that sale

36:05

and organized yeah like now you what your

36:07

spoons to match you know like things of ships

36:09

and you when you're in college if you have a spoon your when

36:12

speaking about mess with some of

36:14

our twitter as the javier fun

36:16

that would a good sort of the

36:18

thesaurus thesaurus opted for every one

36:21

before we let you go marry and natasha

36:23

there's than a new chapter in the great saga

36:25

of elon musk of first forcing

36:27

twitter to sell itself and now at twitter forcing

36:30

you want but ah which is that twitter

36:32

shareholders have approved be forty four billion

36:34

dollar buyouts that elon musk is still

36:36

trying to search like it is a

36:38

union contract at a tesla manufacturing so

36:40

it

36:40

i

36:43

mean at my brain still hurts every time i read

36:45

about this and it's just for

36:47

some reason i just

36:49

the perplexes me so much like here's

36:51

here's someone like trying so hard by a company

36:53

that doesn't want to be bought fights fights

36:56

fights for and then like changes

36:58

his mind and then all these reluctance

37:01

people on this reluctant company

37:04

freaks out pissed off is now trying to force

37:06

them to buy i don't know other back and forth

37:08

it's just like why do you why would

37:10

you want someone who doesn't want to own your

37:13

own you that is all

37:15

i'm financial thing right

37:16

yeah

37:18

yeah the g r e

37:20

d i believe is the explanation

37:23

of that one are essentially people

37:25

who are not trouble we're talking about are

37:27

you on offered a premium over the

37:29

then freddie price of twitter which is very

37:31

standard for an acquisition you'd pay more than

37:33

it's probably worth because investors once lt for

37:35

at costs because they bought shares fucking upside

37:38

and time and , then the stock

37:40

market ah laid an egg

37:42

as an egg the phrase and now

37:45

it seems that very expensive price for the social media

37:47

company especially in light of snaps lay offs

37:49

and snaps revenue growth issues and so forth and

37:51

suddenly are we've turned

37:53

the tables and we haven't watching the

37:56

the mess ever since ah i don't

37:58

know where this is going i do now

37:59

that you on his is well

38:02

resourced and his attempt to escape

38:04

yes i mean my take away

38:06

as someone who choose to there's only one it says upon our script

38:09

magically is visible

38:11

, take away it or not gonna stop and

38:13

there's djelic like also said twitter

38:15

is still taking you on must to course there's

38:18

many obstacles the fact that the you

38:20

though it went through and shareholders

38:22

approved the buyout offer is just one

38:25

step forward it is undies

38:26

except for

38:27

no i don't think anyone actually knows

38:30

where this is gonna go and i wonder

38:32

i really wonder if to marry and

38:34

point is to your points twitter

38:36

just once ilan to pay

38:39

an enormous financial penalty and

38:41

so he can restock his car supply and

38:43

if all of this is essentially them

38:45

for forcing you on towards the deal until

38:47

he surrenders or by that

38:49

yeah i mean and also like blessing i'll

38:51

say on this i still maintain that

38:53

like it's like being in a bad relationship

38:56

with are being in a relationship with someone who doesn't

38:58

when it the in relationship with you

39:00

the something anything i can come out of that

39:02

oh yeah like who the view on going

39:04

to be a good steward of twitter when he's trying to frantically

39:07

alpine at the

39:08

yeah oh man

39:10

it's a mess it's

39:12

er it's not a mess that brings on

39:15

both that that sparks joy does not sparked

39:17

joy for anybody the most your

39:19

twitter shareholder who won seven as printed on her current

39:21

equity holding that is our show

39:23

for today by the time you hear

39:25

this we will have also recorded a special crossover

39:28

episode with our dear friends over at

39:30

chain reaction the techcrunch crypto

39:33

web three bitcoin east focus purchase

39:35

all that the merged and i'll be coming out

39:37

in due time so see tuned for that and

39:39

i invented not americans are set off

39:41

is this weekend

39:41

yeah by sino

39:44

, back to citizens