Our host Dr. Dan Glass in conversation with David H. Clifford (Design School X, Oakland, CA ) and Or Ben Nifla (Ein Gedi High, Hadarom, Israel) talking surviving school, the life saving nature of making and art, helping teachers become toolmakers, and how inequity and oppression are by design.

Recorded at the SoundLab, The Brandeis School of San Francisco, October 23, 2018. Engineered and produced by Nicholas Cole-Farrell