0:00

Ethnically Ambiguous is a production of I

0:02

Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

0:04

my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

0:06

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:08

favorite shows. Hey, Sharen, Hi

0:11

there, welcome to another episode Ethnically

0:13

Ambiguous. Today we are

0:16

doing a deep dive on what's happening in

0:19

East Turkistan a ka Shinjiang.

0:22

These concentration camps they're holding weak

0:24

are Muslims, genocidal

0:26

abuse at the hands of China. Who does not

0:28

like that? These are Muslim

0:31

people who follow different religion.

0:33

That isn't the Chinese communist

0:36

way of life? Yeah, we get into

0:38

the millions that are detained, what the concentration

0:41

camps are like as far as we know, and

0:43

the force labor that is coming out of them,

0:46

and there are some personal accounts that are very jarring.

0:48

And then we get into the surveillance

0:50

state that China has implemented, as

0:53

well as the involvement of the NBA.

0:55

So stay tuned. Who are we?

0:59

Where becomes? Who

1:01

do we become? What is

1:03

it to be? What

1:05

to be? Is it? There

1:08

are? Who are my parents?

1:11

Where are my pains? Why

1:14

are we born? We

1:17

are ethnically

1:20

ambiguous, Hi

1:25

Hi. In

1:28

the middle of saying Hi, I was like, I need to figure

1:30

out a better way to um.

1:36

But Hello, it's just the two of us

1:38

today, and I'm actually

1:41

feeling good about it. There's so much to talk about

1:43

in the world. I think having

1:45

the Soul episodes once a month, I think

1:47

it's a good call. Yeah. No, it's

1:49

nice to just like

1:53

catch up with the world. Yeah,

1:55

And because there's so much going on, I

1:58

feel like we could take one time topic

2:00

and really do a deep dive on anything right

2:02

now, whether it's like Black

2:04

Lives Matter or the death of all these people

2:07

of color. But um,

2:09

the thing that we've chosen to talk about in

2:11

a deep dive today if it's probably somewhere

2:13

in the title, but we're talking about what's happening

2:15

in China. We're talking about the concentration camps

2:17

and the forced labor that's happening. So

2:20

that's what this episode is going to be about. The week are

2:23

yeah, Muslims in China.

2:25

Yeah, we touched on

2:27

this. I think it was last year when

2:30

when we first were aware of it, But

2:32

it's been happening for years and we're

2:34

glad it's getting more traction now. So we're

2:36

just gonna give you all the details about it, so because

2:38

it can be informed. Because it's

2:41

bad. It's really I

2:43

said in China. What I should say is by

2:45

China in the East Turkistan

2:48

region. Yes, not technically

2:51

China, but China has control over it.

2:54

Yes, we'll get into all

2:56

the Yeah,

2:59

the province is not technically in

3:02

Chinese land, I suppose,

3:04

but we'll give it to it. But it is China that is

3:06

abusing human rights, or like the Chinese

3:08

government that's abusing human rights. It's a genocide.

3:11

Let's just say it for what it is. Yeah,

3:15

group, Yeah, ethnic cleansing,

3:17

genocide, a literal holocaust. If

3:20

you look up with definition holocaust, is this

3:22

is what it is. So should we

3:24

just get into it. Yeah, let's let's

3:26

talk about it. I mean, we are going to be working off

3:28

a few sources, but our main one is

3:30

this vox News

3:33

source. It basically breaks

3:35

down every working aspect. We'll go

3:37

into detail about certain parts of it, but yeah,

3:40

we just thought this was the best roundup of

3:42

everything to explain it as clear

3:44

as possible. So shout out to Vox

3:46

for doing the work and for allowing

3:49

us to Uh, we're using it as

3:51

our source. But It is a really good

3:53

article and it breaks down

3:55

all these issues that are happening in East Turkestan.

3:58

So it's called concentration

4:00

camps and forced labor, China's repression

4:02

of the leakers explained. Also

4:05

disclaimer up top. We're going to try to

4:07

pronounce everything as best as we can. I

4:09

have a little guide for ourselves at the top

4:11

of this document. But um, we're

4:13

trying our best. Apologies if we butcher

4:15

anything, We're trying our best. The

4:18

region is called shin Jiang. That's

4:21

what China refers to it. A lot of

4:24

activists have been calling it East

4:26

Turkestan because that's the original

4:29

region before it was taken over by

4:31

China. So I'm gonna try

4:33

and refer to it as East Turkistan

4:36

to give some contexts. Like it might

4:38

get confusing at first, you know, because

4:40

it is the they call it Shinjiang

4:42

China, but we're going to call it

4:45

East Turkistan to kind of give

4:47

it give it back to the people. Yeah,

4:50

so if one of us brings up either

4:52

of those places, just they're the same thing. Yeah,

4:55

you can use them interchangeably, but to

4:57

honor the original land, I'll t

5:00

i as well to like also call it East Turkistan.

5:03

So this article opens up

5:05

with the story of how the Chinese

5:07

government regularly detained citizens for speaking

5:09

out in defense of the weaker Muslims and

5:11

the weaker ethnic group, and it goes into

5:14

detail about this guy, il Ham

5:16

Toti. He was an economics professor

5:18

and a prominent Weaker intellectual in

5:20

East Turkistan and China, and

5:22

he ran a website called Weaker Online

5:25

and it focused on the issues pertaining

5:27

to the Muslim ethnic minority group.

5:30

And so Chinese authorities had

5:32

repeatedly shut down this website years ago,

5:35

and his daughter talking to the reporter,

5:37

she's saying that her family received

5:39

multiple death threats and Chinese

5:42

authorities also disappeared her father multiple

5:44

times before detaining him in and

5:47

then they found him guilty on charges

5:49

of separatism. And after

5:51

this charge, he was sentenced to life

5:54

in prison. And at first his

5:56

daughter said that because her father

5:58

was technically a political prison in her because

6:00

of the charge of separatism, which is

6:02

basically means dividing people's

6:05

notions about the government. Because he was a

6:07

political prisoner, the family could visit him every

6:09

few months, but then the Chinese

6:11

government cut off access entirely and

6:13

she hasn't hear from him since. And

6:16

she's in the United States now, and she

6:19

has still extended family in this region, which

6:21

is the northwest part of China where most weaker

6:24

Muslims live. She does not talk to any

6:26

of her extended family because she said, quote,

6:29

if they talk to me or if they receive

6:31

a phone call from me, I don't think anything

6:33

good will happen to them. And that's what she

6:35

said over the phone to this box reporter. Yes,

6:38

so her father was targeted by the

6:40

Chinese government for his advocacy

6:43

of weaker rights and but

6:45

in recent years, the Chinese Communist

6:47

Party has arbitrarily detained between

6:49

one million and three million other Weikars

6:52

in so called re education centers

6:55

that's in quotes, and forced them

6:57

to undergo psychological indoctrination

7:01

programs such as studying communist

7:03

propaganda and giving thanks

7:05

to Chinese President shi Jin Panang.

7:09

Chinese officials have also reportedly

7:11

used water boarding and other forms of torture,

7:13

including sexual abuse, as part of

7:15

the indoctrination process. It

7:18

is the largest mass internment

7:20

of an ethnic religious minority group

7:22

since World War Two. So this

7:24

has not happened since the

7:26

Holocaust and the fact that it resembles

7:29

the Holocaust, I think is very key,

7:31

but still sad because no one's paying attention

7:33

to it. The concentration camps

7:36

are the most extreme example of China's

7:38

inhumane policies against the weak

7:40

ares, but even those outside

7:42

the camps are subject to oppressive policies.

7:45

China has used mass surveillance to

7:48

turn East Turkestan into a high

7:50

tech police state. Uh. And we will

7:52

get further into that a little later. Yeah,

7:54

So the leaguers inside

7:57

and outside the camps are both exploited for cheap

7:59

labor. You might have seen some stuff if you guys are following

8:02

us on Instagram or just are paying

8:04

attention. Their forced to manufacture

8:06

clothing and other products for sale both

8:08

at home and abroad. Recently, The New York

8:10

Times revealed that some Chinese made

8:13

face masks are being sold in the US and other

8:15

countries. They're being produced in factories

8:17

that relied on the weaker

8:19

Muslim labor. The forced labor.

8:22

And other popular brands have been exposed using

8:24

these camp including h and m Apple,

8:27

Nike, and the statements

8:29

of these brands we're gonna talk about later on. But

8:32

Nike did just come out with this like uplifting

8:35

commercial recently about fighting racism,

8:38

and I find it so hypocritical because they're

8:40

still relying on cheap

8:42

forced labor in these concentration camps.

8:45

So just keep an open mind when you see

8:47

these ads like you have to question, especially

8:49

these like massive brands, you have to question

8:52

where how their supplies are so

8:54

cheap. Anyways, we'll talk about

8:56

their statements further along this episode,

8:58

because both Nike and All release a statement.

9:01

Anyways, another recent investigation found

9:03

evidence that Chinese authorities they subjected

9:06

weaker women to mass sterilization,

9:09

forcing them to take birth control and have

9:11

abortions, and putting them in camps if they

9:13

resist. Some have argued this attempt

9:15

to control the population meets the u

9:17

N definitions of genocide, which

9:20

I agree with obviously. Yeah.

9:22

And the Chinese government, however, claims

9:24

that the camps are merely vocational and

9:26

training centers and that they're teaching people

9:28

job skills. Uh

9:32

So it has justified the oppression

9:35

in East Turkeystan as an attempt to clamp

9:37

down on terrorism and extremism.

9:39

Emanating from the weak are separatist

9:42

movement and separatistists to

9:44

like basically separate from a certain government,

9:46

a group, a religion, gender

9:48

societ, any sort of like group

9:51

to separate from them. And that's China

9:54

feels any sort of separatist movement to be basically

9:56

like on par with terrorism.

9:58

So there have been into ss of violent unrest

10:01

over the years, including deadly terrorist attacks,

10:04

and at least one we are extremist group

10:06

in the region that

10:08

goes by the East Turkish East Turkestan

10:10

Islamic movement that has ties to al

10:12

Qaeda and the global jihadist movement.

10:15

But most experts say Beijing's

10:17

repression and subjugation of the

10:19

millions of Wegers is vastly disproportionate

10:22

to the comparatively minor terror threat

10:25

in the region, and as more

10:27

and more reports of the atrocities happening

10:29

in East Turkestan are revealed,

10:31

the international community is grappling

10:33

with how to punish China for its abuses. The

10:36

United States finally

10:38

imposed sanctions on Chinese officials

10:40

involved in persecuting the week Ares

10:42

and punished companies believed to be reliant

10:45

on whig are forced. Labor advocates

10:47

and bipartisan groups of lawmakers are

10:50

calling for more forceful action, including

10:52

putting greater pressure on major corporations

10:54

to cut ties with the Chinese companies

10:56

that coerce weak are labor. And

10:59

yet the persecute s of the weaker

11:01

Muslims continues, and in full

11:03

view of the entire world. So

11:06

the daughter I mentioned earlier, her name is jeu

11:08

her Ilham. Again, she's in the US

11:10

and now she's an activist for weaker rights.

11:13

She says, knowing what is happening to weaker

11:15

Muslims, it makes her more determined to preserve

11:17

her culture, her history, and her language.

11:20

She says, quote, I don't think there

11:22

are any other words to put for this action.

11:24

I think it's a genocide. It's genocide period.

11:27

And she's right, it's genocide. It's ethnic cleansing.

11:30

This is definition of wiping out an entire

11:32

ethnic group. So

11:36

why is China targeting the weaker

11:38

Muslim population in East Turkistan. So

11:41

East Turkistan a k A. Present day

11:43

Shinjiang is where about eleven

11:46

million weaker Muslims and other Muslim minorities

11:48

live. It's the autonomous region in China's

11:51

northwest that borders Kazakhstan,

11:54

Kyrgyzstan and Mongolia. It

11:56

has been under Chinese control since nine when

11:59

the People's Were Book of China was established.

12:01

We speak their own language. It's an Asian

12:03

Turkic language similar to Uzbek,

12:06

and most practice a moderate form of Sunni

12:09

Islam. Some activists, including those

12:11

who seek independence from China, referred

12:13

to the region as as we're calling

12:15

it East Turkistan. Yes, so,

12:17

Once situated along the ancient Silk

12:20

Road trading route, East

12:22

Turkistan is oil and resource

12:24

rich. As it developed along

12:26

with the rest of China, the region attracted

12:29

more Han Chinese migration,

12:32

encouraged by the Chinese government, and

12:34

that demographic shift inflamed

12:36

ethnic tensions, especially with

12:38

some of the larger cities. In two

12:41

thousand nine, for example, riots

12:43

broke out in urum Kei. I

12:45

don't know if I'm saying that right, the capital

12:48

of East Turkistan, after we

12:50

Gres protested their treatment by

12:52

the government and the Han majority.

12:55

About two d people were killed and hundreds

12:57

injured during the unrest, and

12:59

the Chinese government blame the protests

13:02

on violent separatist groups at

13:04

tactic it would continue to use against

13:06

the Wagers and other religious and

13:08

ethnic minorities across China. So

13:10

the Chinese government justifies it's clamped

13:13

down on the weakers and most of the minorities.

13:15

By saying is trying to eradicate extremism

13:17

and separatist groups, it's basically

13:20

attacking millions of people for

13:22

the actions of a few, which is Islamophobia.

13:25

One on one. These attacks, some

13:27

violent by weaker separatists, have occurred

13:29

in recent years, and some weakers have

13:32

foreign fighters joining groups like ISIS.

13:34

But there's little evidence of any cohesive

13:36

separatist movement with jihadi roots

13:38

or otherwise that could challenge the Chinese

13:40

government. This is what experts are telling

13:42

this Fox reporter. There's very little

13:45

evidence that there's any cohesive separatist movement

13:47

with extremist groups or otherwise. So.

13:50

East Turkistan is also a major logistics

13:52

hub for Beijing's ambitious Belt

13:54

and Road initiative. It's a trillion dollar infrastructure

13:57

project along the Old Silk Road meant

13:59

to China's economic and political influence

14:02

around the world. East Turkistan's increasing

14:04

importance to Chinese global aspirations

14:06

is a major reason Beijing is

14:08

exerting its control in the region. The

14:11

region is critical to Chinese future development

14:13

and the Belt and Road initiative. This is what

14:15

Drew C. Gladly, the professor of anthropology

14:18

at Pomona College, Claremont, California,

14:20

told the reporter he studies this region

14:23

and he says, all those roads go through

14:25

East Turkistan. Yes, So these

14:27

are some of China's d extremification

14:30

policies against the Wagers. So

14:33

China's crackdown on the Wegers was initially

14:36

part of a policy of d extremification.

14:40

Under this policy, Beijing and post

14:42

draconian restrictions in East Turkistan

14:45

intended to erase the Wegers Islamic

14:48

religious and cultural identity, including

14:50

imprisoning hundreds of thousands in so called

14:53

in quotes re education camps.

14:56

China has a dark history of the re education

14:58

camps, combining hard la or with

15:00

indoctrination to the party line.

15:02

According to research by Adrian Zenz,

15:05

a leading scholar on China's policy towards

15:07

the Wagers and senior research fellow in China

15:10

Studies at the Victims of Communism

15:12

Memorial Foundation, Chinese officials

15:14

began using dedicated camps

15:16

in East Turkestan around around

15:19

the same time that China blamed a series

15:21

of terrorist attacks on radical

15:24

week Are separatists in East

15:27

Turkestan also got a new leader a

15:29

powerful Communist party boss named

15:32

Chen Quango, whose

15:34

previous job was restoring order and control

15:37

to the restive region of Tibet.

15:39

Chen has a reputation as a strong man

15:41

and is somewhat of a specialist in

15:44

ethnic crackdowns. The United

15:46

States has placed human rights sanctions

15:48

on Chen and other Chinese officials in

15:50

East Turkestan earlier this month. Chen

15:53

is responsible for the system that used

15:55

technology to round up weakers

15:57

at such a rapid pace, not only

16:00

in East Turkistan, but also similar

16:02

models of convenience style police

16:04

stations where sort of tested

16:07

in the Tibet region prior to being

16:09

deployed in the East Turkistan context.

16:12

Said this is Olivia Aos, a

16:14

senior policy analyst at the Davis Institute

16:16

for National Security and Foreign Policy at the

16:19

Heritage Foundation. So

16:21

increased and aggressive mass surveillance

16:23

and police presence accompanied his move

16:26

to Shinjiang, including his

16:28

co unquote grid management policing system.

16:31

As the economists reported, authorities

16:33

divide each city into squares with about

16:35

five people. Every square has a

16:37

police station that keeps tabs on its

16:39

inhabitants. So in rural

16:42

areas, so does every village. Security

16:45

checkpoints where residents must scan identification

16:47

cards were set up by train stations on roads

16:50

in and out of towns. Authorities

16:52

have reportedly used facial recognition technology

16:54

to track down residents movements,

16:57

and Chinese officials also reportedly took

16:59

blood and in a samples framed

17:01

as mandatory checkups, which

17:03

is it's very, very shady

17:05

business. Police also confiscate

17:08

phones to download the information contained on

17:10

them to scan through later to track

17:13

and keep tabs on weakers through their

17:15

cell phones. Police have also confiscated

17:17

passports to prevent them from traveling abroad,

17:20

and the weaker population that

17:22

live abroad say their families are targeted

17:24

by Chinese officials as part of a pressure campaign

17:27

to keep a diaspora from speaking out. So

17:30

some of the targeted de extremification

17:33

restrictions gained coverage in the West, including

17:35

a ban on certain Muslim names for babies

17:38

and another on long beards and veils.

17:41

The government reportedly tried to promote drinking

17:43

and smoking because people who

17:45

don't drink and smoke like devout

17:47

Muslims were deemed suspicious.

17:50

So in October October, Radio

17:53

Free Asia, a news agency

17:55

backed by the US government, also reported

17:57

that Han Chinese men were being sent to

18:00

check in on and sometimes sleep with

18:02

weak our women, including those whose

18:04

husbands were detained in the camps. It

18:06

was called the Pair Up and Become Family

18:09

program, and it was designed to promote

18:11

ethnic unity. One local official

18:13

explained, MH that

18:16

is so disturbing. So Chinese

18:18

officials have justified these policies as necessary

18:21

to counter religious radicalization and

18:23

extremism, but critics say they are

18:25

meant to curtail Islamic traditions and

18:27

practices, and that should

18:29

be obvious to anyone listening. There's

18:31

no logic behind any of this. It is

18:33

so so just

18:36

a violation of every human right. The

18:38

ultimate goal, the ultimate issue that the Chinese

18:40

state is targeting is the cultural practices

18:42

and beliefs of Muslim groups. This

18:44

is what James Millword, the professor

18:46

at George University, total reporter

18:49

in He went on

18:51

to say, the Chinese government is trying to expunge

18:54

ethno national characteristics

18:56

from the people. They're trying to drive them out

18:58

of the country, they're trying to hold them in. So

19:01

let's take a quick commercial break and we'll go into

19:04

what we know and what we don't know about these concentration

19:06

camps

19:16

and we're back, okay. So what

19:18

do we know and what do we don't know about

19:20

these concentration camps that exist

19:22

in East Turkestan. So

19:24

these re education camps a k a. These

19:26

training camps that they're called in China or

19:29

by Chinese officials, they're perhaps

19:31

the most sinister pillar of this d extremification

19:34

policy. Experts estimate

19:36

as many as three million people have

19:38

disappeared into these camps at some point, with

19:40

about one million currently still being

19:43

held. Really, think about that, one million

19:45

are currently being held with three million just

19:47

disappearing. And at first, the Chinese

19:50

government denied these camps ever existed.

19:53

China state run media at one time dismissed

19:55

the reports of detention camps as Western

19:57

media quote baselessly criticizing

20:00

China's human rights. Yeah, but

20:02

China has since stopped pretending that the camps

20:04

aren't real, and instead the government

20:06

is trying to cast them as both lawful and innocuous.

20:10

In October, Chinese

20:12

officials effectively legalized the education

20:14

camps for the stated goal of

20:17

eradicating extremism.

20:19

So later that month, a government official in East

20:21

Turkistan who was himself and

20:23

ethnic we are compared to detention

20:25

centers to boarding schools and its detainees

20:28

to students. Many trainees

20:30

have said that they were previously affected

20:33

by extremist thought and have never participated

20:35

in such parts such kinds of arts and

20:37

sports activities. Now they realize

20:39

how colorful life can be. That was the

20:42

East Turkistan governor Sharat Zaker.

20:44

That's what they told sin Hua,

20:47

Chinese state run news agency.

20:50

What's really going on in the camps is difficult

20:52

to know because of China's disinformation campaign

20:55

and the tight clamp down on information, but

20:57

leaked official documents and chilling

20:59

for town accounts from people detained

21:02

in the camps have helped provide

21:04

outside experts and researchers put

21:06

together disturbing portrait of the abuses

21:08

that take place there. And these camps

21:10

are much more like prisons than so called

21:12

boarding schools. Obviously, report

21:16

by agency France Press

21:18

described the camps in which thousands

21:21

of guards carry spiked clubs,

21:23

tear gas and stun guns to surveill

21:26

detainees who are held in buildings

21:28

surrounded by razor wire and infrared

21:30

cameras. AFP agents

21:33

funds plus which I

21:35

think that's how it's pronounced, very French. The

21:38

journalists also reviewed public documents

21:40

showing that government agencies overseeing

21:42

the camps purchased two thousand,

21:45

seven undred sixty eight police batons, five

21:47

hundred fifty electric cattle prods,

21:50

and one thousand, three hundred sixty seven pairs

21:52

of handcuffs and two thousand seven

21:55

two cans of pepper spray. An

21:57

investigation by Routers and eighteen also

22:00

found that, according to satellite imagery, thirty

22:02

nine suspected camps almost tripled

22:04

in size between April seventeen

22:06

in August. The report

22:09

said, quote Collectively, the built

22:11

up parts in these thirty nine facilities now

22:13

cover an area roughly the size of a hundred

22:16

and forty soccer fields. In

22:18

twenty nineteen, another set of weak documents

22:20

revealed how tightly controlled the camps are.

22:23

According to the BBC, detainees

22:25

were quote never allowed to escape, and their

22:27

behavioral violations would face discipline

22:29

and punishment. The documents ordered

22:31

surveillance of dorm rooms and classrooms.

22:34

Leak drone footage believed to be recorded last

22:36

August, appears to show hundreds of

22:38

weaker prisoners, blindfolded and handcuffed,

22:40

being transferred by train, and

22:43

then in February,

22:46

a leaked one and thirty seven page spreadsheet

22:49

from the Carratax County in

22:51

East Turkestan showed exactly how

22:53

weaker families are tracked by authorities.

22:55

The spreadsheet contained three hundred names

22:58

of weaker families, including the identities

23:00

of people committed to concentration camps and

23:02

those whom officials were monitoring. Some

23:04

of those being tracked were as young as sixteen

23:07

years old, so among the

23:09

things that caught the attention of authorities were

23:11

obtaining a passport, whether or not they

23:13

had traveled, praying regularly,

23:16

or even wearing a beard. According to The New

23:18

York Times, family members were

23:20

monitored for participating in religious ceremonies

23:22

like funerals or weddings. We Guards were

23:24

also sent to camps if they violated China's

23:27

birth restrictions. According to

23:29

research by Zens and the Associated

23:31

Press in June, in a bolstered

23:34

finding, they found that Chinese

23:37

officials were systematically trying to stop

23:39

wig Are women from having children under

23:41

the threat of internment if they violated

23:43

the rules. According to the report,

23:46

the state regularly subjects minority

23:48

women to pregnancy checks and

23:50

forces intra uterine devices,

23:52

sterilization, and even abortion

23:54

on hundreds of thousands. The interviews

23:56

and data shows even while the

23:59

use of I D S and sterilization has

24:02

fallen nationwide, it is sharply

24:04

rising in East Turkestan, and the research

24:06

backs up anecdotal reports from women

24:09

detained in the camps who say they were

24:11

forced to undergo examinations and abortions.

24:15

In December seventeen, Golziha

24:18

Magden to the thirty eight year old ethnic

24:20

Kazah and Chinese citizen. She

24:23

was detained in East Turkistan and put under house

24:25

arrest. In December seventeen,

24:27

Golziha Magden, a thirty eight

24:29

year old ethnic Kaza and a Chinese citizen.

24:32

She was detained in East Turkistan and put under

24:34

house arrest. She told The Washington Post

24:36

in October twenty nineteen that during her detention

24:39

she had been forced to undergo a physical examination.

24:41

She was ten weeks pregnant at the time, and a month

24:43

later the doctors terminated her pregnancy against

24:46

her will. To humans were lost

24:48

in this tragedy. My baby and me, That's

24:51

what she said in October twenty nineteen. And

24:53

inside these camps, detainees are poorly

24:55

subjected to bizarre exercises aimed

24:58

at cope brainwashing them as

25:00

physical torture, rape, sleep deprivation,

25:02

and more. Millward the

25:05

Georgian professor from earlier. He said, the

25:07

Chinese authorities see the camps as a kind

25:09

of conversion therapy, and they talked

25:11

about it in that way as well. A

25:13

source also told Radio Free Asia and eighteen

25:16

that a Chinese official had referred to these re education

25:19

processes as similar to quote,

25:21

spraying chemicals on the crops. That

25:23

is why it is general re education, not

25:26

limited to a few people. So

25:28

The Washington Post published an account

25:31

from ki Ra Samarkand, who

25:33

was detained in one of the camps for three months.

25:35

The thirty year old stayed in a dormitory with

25:37

fourteen other men after the

25:40

room was searched every morning. He said, the day

25:42

began with two hours of study on subjects

25:44

including the spirit of the nineteen Party

25:46

Congress, where she expounded

25:49

his political dogma in a three hour speech,

25:52

and China's policies on minorities and religion.

25:55

Inmates would sing Communist songs, chant

25:57

long live sheet jin ping, and

26:00

do military style training in the afternoon

26:03

before writing their accounts of their day.

26:06

That's what he said. He goes on to say

26:08

those who disobeyed the rules, refused to

26:10

be on duty, engaged in fights, or relate

26:12

for studies were placed in handcuffs and ankle

26:15

cuffs for up to twelve hours.

26:17

That's what he told The Washington Post. At

26:19

a July hearing of the Congressional

26:22

Executive Commission on China, special

26:24

by partisan committee set up by Congress

26:27

to monitor human rights in China, Jessica

26:30

bot K, a former research analyst

26:32

at the State Department, testified that

26:35

in at least some of these facilities, detainees

26:37

are subject to water boarding, being kept

26:39

in isolation without food and water, and

26:42

being prevented from sleeping. They are

26:44

interrogated about their religious practices

26:46

and about having made trips abroad. They

26:49

are forced to apologize for their clothes they wore

26:51

or for paying in the wrong place at the wrong time.

26:54

So, as you mentioned before, the

26:57

forced labor of the weaker Muslim that's been increasing

26:59

over recent year years. Beyond the detention

27:01

camps, there is now growing evidence that leakers

27:03

are being forced to work in the Chinese factories.

27:06

Given the ubiquity of Chinese manufacturing,

27:08

that almost certainly means that the exploitation

27:10

of leaguers is embedded with the global supply

27:13

chain. Nuri Turkell, the

27:15

chair of the board of the Weaker Human

27:17

Rights Project, told Congress in twenty nineteen,

27:20

it is becoming increasingly hard to ignore

27:22

the fact that goods manufactured in East Turkistan

27:25

have a high likelihood of being produced with forced

27:27

labor. He is also someone

27:29

that refers to the region as East

27:31

Turkistan and the force labor is

27:34

happening within both East Turkistan and

27:36

other parts of China, according to recent reports.

27:38

In March, a report from

27:40

the Congressional Executive Commission on China

27:42

also found that Weaker force labor was taking

27:44

place within the internment camps. Oh

27:47

yeah, yeah. According to a report

27:50

from the Australian Strategic Policy

27:52

Institute a sp I, at

27:54

least eighty thousand week guards were taken

27:57

from East Turkistan and transferred to various

27:59

factories around China between

28:03

though it's likely that's a low ball

28:05

estimate. Some leaguers

28:08

were taken directly from concentration camps

28:10

to the factories, though the conditions

28:12

mirrored those they faced in

28:14

detention. According to the same study, we

28:17

guards were under constant surveillance, forced

28:19

to undergo Mandarin language instruction and

28:21

other political teachings in their free time.

28:24

Most critically, they cannot leave. In

28:26

July, the Australian Broadcasting

28:29

Corporation report a story of a week Are woman,

28:31

thirty eight year old dil Noir, who

28:34

was sent to an internment camp along

28:36

with her husband in May. Dil

28:38

Noor had contacted her sister in Australia

28:40

to tell her she'd be taken

28:43

from the camps and sent to work in a technology

28:45

factory in Urumki six

28:48

d Sixty people are brought in shackled

28:50

and handcuffed, and it is big, she wrote

28:52

again. It's hard to get full information out

28:54

of China's tightly controlled system,

28:57

but leak documents and testimony from some

28:59

workers who have been forced into factories offered

29:01

compelling evidence. The revelations

29:03

raised serious questions for the global supply

29:06

chain and anyone who buys goods

29:08

that is at one point passed through China.

29:11

The a s p I found that at least twenty

29:13

seven suspected factories are using laborers

29:16

from East Turkestan, which potentially

29:18

have connections to eighty three major global

29:20

brands. The East Turkistan region

29:22

specifically is a major cotton hub for China,

29:25

meaning that East Turkistan cotton might end up being

29:27

in the final products of many clothing lines. The

29:29

Washington Post and the A s p I also found

29:32

that the South Korean owned Qingdao

29:35

Tai Kwang shoes in like

29:37

she China. Again apologies

29:39

of mispronouncing these words, but basically

29:42

this company has been the Nike supplier

29:44

for decades. It's been employing about

29:47

seven hundred weaker workers, though

29:49

they cannot confirm that the Weakers were forced

29:51

to work, Eyewitnesses told the Posts

29:53

that the workers weren't allowed to leave freely,

29:56

and Nike has since said that it's in contact

29:58

with its suppliers to quo assess potential

30:01

risks related to the employment of

30:03

weaker Muslims. Other companies

30:05

like Apple have said that they have found

30:07

no evidence of forced labor, but they are monitoring

30:09

their sources so Another

30:12

recent investigation by The New York Times

30:14

found that forced week our labor is being

30:16

used to make personal protective equipment, specifically

30:19

those disposable surgical face

30:21

masks that are very common in the

30:23

time of COVID nineteen. Obviously, just

30:26

last week, more than seventy two week Our

30:28

rights groups and a hundred Civil society

30:31

Groups Worldwide launched a campaign

30:33

to end forced week Our labor, demanding

30:35

companies stops sourcing cotton, yarn, textiles,

30:38

and finished products from East Turkestan

30:41

and for companies to cut ties with suppliers

30:43

implicated enforced labor schemes.

30:46

Now that the world is, you know, actually paying more attention

30:48

to weak ours in my opinion, because

30:51

some one was like, we have to

30:53

say no to Nike, and then everyone's like, wait,

30:56

what not my Nike? What's

30:58

going on? That's true in my theory

31:00

is like no one cared until people were like, Noike,

31:03

he's using them, and then all of a sudden people are like, wait

31:05

a second, I'm listening, we need to stop

31:07

this. Yeah, no one

31:09

cared until their favorite brand. Yeah, until

31:11

someone was like, Adida's

31:13

actually actually got actively

31:16

out of it. But Zubaira sham

31:19

Saden, a Chinese outreach coordinator

31:21

with the Weak Are Human Rights Project, told

31:23

me that we cares have faced discrimination

31:26

for years and education and employment.

31:29

It just didn't get the attention of the world, she

31:31

said. In recent headlines, including

31:33

those about birth control and for sterilization,

31:36

have helped change that, But she said anyone

31:38

who really tried to see what was happening in

31:40

East Turkestan could see if they looked,

31:43

it's clear. It's there. It's just crystal

31:45

clear, she said, adding that China is

31:47

still denying all of it. That

31:49

the world is finally starting to pay attention

31:51

is important, but it's not nearly

31:54

enough. Activists say that governments

31:56

and international institutions need to do

31:58

more to pressure China. Wagers

32:00

and the Bespora are pushing for the International

32:03

Criminal Court to investigate China for

32:05

genocide and other atrocities. Naomi

32:07

kick Loler the director at the

32:09

Simon Scout Center

32:12

for the Prevention of Genocide at the United

32:14

States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

32:16

She said in March that there are quote reasonable

32:18

grounds to believe that China is responsible

32:20

for crimes against humanity. However,

32:23

because China is recognized the i c c S

32:25

jurisdiction, that method might have

32:27

its limits, and some US

32:29

lawmakers have been pushing for the US to get

32:31

tougher on China about the Weaker issue

32:34

a k A v. Genocide, and the State Department

32:36

has advocated for the Weakers to be

32:39

a part of its religious freedom initiatives,

32:41

but President Trump has been

32:43

pretty quiet on the topic, and it seems

32:46

his desire to negotiate a trade deal with

32:48

China was a big reason why.

32:50

Well, we're kind of in the middle

32:53

of a major trade deal. Trump said

32:55

in June that was a bad Trump impression when

32:57

asked why he hadn't imposed S

33:00

Treasury sanctions on Chinese officials involved

33:03

in the repression of the weakers. Trump's

33:05

former National security advisor, John

33:08

Bolton also alleged that Trump

33:10

personally gave she Jin Ping

33:12

the green light to keep building the camps,

33:15

telling she at a meeting in

33:17

June that it was exactly

33:19

the right thing to do. The meeting

33:22

was attended by only the two leaders

33:24

and their interpreters, so Bolton is

33:26

relying on what the interpreter told him

33:28

after the meeting. Other youth officials

33:30

have denied Bolton's account. In June,

33:33

however, Trump signed into law

33:35

the wig Are Human Rights Policy Act, of

33:38

which imposes sanctions on foreign individuals

33:40

and entities involved in abuses in

33:42

East Turkestan and requires the President

33:45

to periodically send Congress a list

33:47

of identifying foreign individuals and entities

33:49

responsible for such human rights

33:51

abuses. Since then, the US has

33:53

sanctioned officials, including Chen

33:56

Kwangao, who was in charge of East

33:58

Turkestan and the master behind the surveillance

34:01

policies. The US also placed

34:03

sanctions on East Turkestan's Public

34:05

Security Bureau and its director Wang

34:07

Ming Shan under the Global Magninsky

34:10

Act, which targets human rights abusers

34:13

around the world. The u S

34:15

sanctions angered China, and Beijing

34:17

retaliated by sanctioning U S officials,

34:19

including Marco Rubio and Chris

34:22

Smith, who are Republican representatives.

34:24

Like good job, the two people who like don't matter? Okay,

34:27

I know exactly like who Chris

34:29

Smith is the most generic name, regardless, I would

34:31

not know who that was unless I read this article. Regardless,

34:34

they have been the most prominent voices in Congress

34:36

condemning China's abuses of weaker Muslims.

34:39

So I losing surprising. That is surprising,

34:41

Marco, and

34:44

that definitely surprised me as well, because they're

34:46

just so, they're just sucking adults.

34:48

I don't know. The US also blacklisted

34:51

eleven Chinese companies in July because

34:53

of their ties to human rights abuses in East

34:55

Turkestan, which means these companies

34:57

can't easily access US technology or

35:00

products. At least nine of the company's

35:02

had ties to force weaker labor, including

35:04

some named in the asp I report that we're

35:06

connected to major clothing brands. From

35:08

what I remember, a lot of them were like these fast fashion

35:11

companies, including like H and M. So,

35:13

I mean, this just goes to show any fast

35:15

fashion, whether it's like cheaply

35:17

made, you can tell. I would just urge you guys

35:20

to not use fast fashion

35:22

essentially because it's never a good method

35:24

of making these these items. Two

35:27

others added to the list because of their use

35:29

of quote genetic analysis that

35:31

targeted most of the minority groups. But

35:33

the Trump administration's tougher approach towards

35:36

China on the week our issue also comes

35:38

as the administration is sought to put increasing

35:40

pressure on China over its handling

35:42

of the coronavirus pandemic. Tensions

35:45

between Washington and Beijing are escalating,

35:48

and the tip for tat is sinking the

35:50

relationship between the two superpowers.

35:53

According to Gladne of Pomona College,

35:56

I am concerned that once again the wagers

35:59

are not being can seriously in

36:01

and of themselves, rather than

36:03

being used as kind of a pawn in a larger

36:06

geopolitical strategy, but

36:08

pressure on China for its human rights

36:10

abuses, both in East Turkistan

36:12

and in Hong Kong should be a priority

36:14

for the US administration. I

36:17

definitely think that there is an effort to squeeze

36:19

China in anyway that can possibly

36:21

be done, you know, said of the United States.

36:24

But I think there's also this broader recognition

36:28

that what's going on in East Turkistan is

36:30

definitely among some of the worst human rights atrocities

36:32

taken place, certainly in this decade, maybe

36:35

in even in our generation. Hard

36:38

to say so. New details about the atrocities

36:40

inside the camps have added

36:42

even more of a sense of urgency. Bipartisan

36:45

lawmakers have signed on to the whig Are

36:47

Forced Labor Prevention Act, which

36:49

would require that companies prove any products

36:52

source from East Turkistan did not involve

36:54

forced labor and would compile a list of Chinese

36:56

companies that relied on force labor. Senators

36:59

have also to Trump administration to make a

37:01

formal declaration that a trusty

37:04

crimes are happening in East Turkestan.

37:06

Some advocates are also calling on its consumers

37:09

to boycott products that may have been made

37:11

with weak our labor and economic

37:13

pressure, especially if it forces major

37:16

corporations to break ties with some Chinese

37:18

suppliers, it may be one of the most effective

37:20

tools, though that is increasingly challenging

37:23

in a world that it's consumed by the

37:25

COVID pandemic and an economic catastrophe.

37:28

But the pandemic itself, Shomps and Then

37:30

of the Weaker Human Rights Project told

37:33

the Reporter Box that the

37:35

pandemic itself is yet another reason for

37:37

urgency. She saw it as a potential

37:39

reason for China's government to escalate its

37:41

crackdown under the guise of quarantine

37:43

for COVID nineteen quote.

37:45

She said, it's going to be another good

37:47

excuse to just attain people arbitrarily.

37:51

And the previous point about

37:53

economic pressure, I think boycotting

37:55

has been a tool that many people

37:57

use as a form of resistance. We see it in plastine,

38:00

we see it with BDS and similar to

38:02

that you vote with your dollar kind

38:04

of thing. So you put economic pressure on these corporations

38:07

to break ties that are problematic

38:09

and abusing human rights and

38:12

taking advantage of a minority group. But

38:15

I think at the same time it's very hard to do that

38:17

in the current climate. But we're

38:19

gonna get into some more elements of all

38:21

of this after one more break. We'll

38:23

be right back and

38:34

we are that. I kind

38:36

of wanted to go into detail about

38:40

the surveillance because I think it's so orwellian

38:42

and it's like right out that

38:45

it's actually very terrifying. So

38:47

the guy who basically came up

38:49

with how to police Tibet is

38:52

the same guy involved, chen

38:54

Quinco. I'm sorry I should have looked

38:56

at Pew to say his name, but yeah, they've turned

38:58

East Turkestan in to one of the most technologically

39:01

advanced police states, frequently

39:04

described as an open air prison, and

39:06

while some of the week Are and Turkic people

39:09

have not been detained in concentration

39:11

camps, there are in no sense free. At

39:13

the beginning of seventeen, China invested

39:15

eight point four billion into internal

39:18

security in East Turkestan in order

39:20

to monitor and police every aspect of life

39:22

for minorities, and this surveillance

39:25

applies military cyber systems

39:27

to civilian public security, targeting

39:29

ethnic minorities while ignoring the majority

39:32

Han Chinese who make up a

39:34

little less than half of East Turkistan's

39:36

population, and they have checkpoints,

39:38

and the checkpoints are manned by armed police that

39:41

are stationed at neighborhood entrances and exits,

39:43

banks, park schools, gas stations

39:46

and mosques where we Cares and other Turkic

39:48

people have to swipe an identity card

39:50

to pass like we said earlier, but the han

39:52

Chinese are not subjected to the same

39:54

surveillance and are wave through green

39:56

channels at checkpoints. In the green channels

39:59

like You're good to go, and identification

40:02

cards are also needed to buy simple commodities

40:04

like phones, computers, sugar, knives,

40:07

and gasoline. And there are over ten thousand

40:09

checkpoints in the capital room Key,

40:11

each guarded by over two dozen police

40:14

officers twenty four hours a day.

40:16

And then they also have spywear, so the

40:18

Weigres are forced to install a mobile

40:20

spywear app called Jingwang

40:23

y She, which monitors phone

40:25

activity and sends data unencrypted

40:28

to a government server and the content

40:31

authorities basically deem alerts

40:33

the CCP in the system

40:36

and then it allows authorities to decide whether

40:38

the person should be sent to a concentration

40:40

camp. And the content includes

40:43

pictures of chronic versus Islamic

40:45

symbols such as the crescent Moon and

40:47

the Star and any communication

40:49

with family and friends from overseas,

40:51

and spot checks are done on the streets

40:54

and at checkpoints to check that the

40:56

app is actually downloaded and those

40:58

who do not have the app download are

41:00

subject to detainment and then they

41:02

also have biometric screenings. And

41:04

since the state has

41:06

collected millions of DNA samples,

41:09

fingerprints, blood type data and

41:11

iris biometrics without consent

41:14

under a in quotes mandatory

41:16

free medical checkups. And

41:18

while it is currently unclear what the data

41:21

is being used for, sources believe that

41:23

the data is being utilized to create facial

41:25

recognition in systems, for racial profiling

41:27

of the week ares and for tracking of every

41:29

aspect of their daily lives,

41:31

and this data is stored even if they leave

41:33

East Turkestan. And this bio

41:36

data is also believed to be used for DNA

41:38

pen typing. I don't know what that means, I

41:41

eat identifying physical traits that characterize

41:44

the week are people based on genetic trends.

41:46

DNA phenotyping can also

41:49

be used to create generalized filters

41:51

that subject people to different restrictions

41:53

and treatment by the government based on

41:55

their ethnicity. Jesus Christ while

41:58

there are questions surrounding the effectiveness of po

42:00

typing technology. It raises

42:02

ethical concerns on how this technology

42:05

can be used to repress and control

42:07

the week our population also

42:10

travel restrictions. We Chat

42:12

messaging platform was frequently used by wegers

42:15

to exchange chronic versus and lectures and

42:17

to learn more about Islam. This platform

42:19

is now being used against them by the CCP

42:22

as their conversations are labeled as suspicious

42:25

and control is now exerted on we are

42:28

traveling outside of East Turkestan through

42:30

effectively denying them the right to a passport.

42:33

Instead, they are given one day travel

42:35

documents and then are required to return

42:37

to China to renew passports, where

42:39

they face the risk of landing in the in the

42:41

concentration camps. And this has already happened

42:44

to students studying overseas and

42:46

not having proper documentations overseas

42:48

puts regards at a disadvantage where they

42:50

may be unable to get a job, a house, or

42:53

married. And China has pressured countries

42:55

worldwide to deport wegres living

42:57

abroad and we go our refugees back

43:00

to China where they risk punishment

43:02

from the CCP and On top

43:04

of that, there's one more thing. They

43:06

have civilian informants. Guys. This is

43:08

like in where your own

43:10

kids could turn on you and report you. So

43:14

one million civilian workers have been sent

43:16

as government informants to live in the

43:18

homes of the wegards to assess loyalty

43:21

to the CCP, and that's the Chinese Communist

43:23

Party. If I haven't been sorry, if I didn't say that. Informants

43:25

report on how likely the whigers are

43:28

to challenge the Communist state, how

43:30

well they assimilate into the Chinese culture,

43:32

and how religious they are. And the workers

43:34

follow manuals that not only collect

43:36

information about the lifestyles of wegers,

43:39

but also provide instructions for how to pressure

43:41

the weakers into exposing themselves.

43:43

It's like mind games. And this is yet

43:45

another tactic by the CCP that

43:48

they used to monitor the Wegers and is

43:50

one way for the Chinese government to determine who

43:53

will be sent to the camps and who will be allowed

43:55

to stay in their homes with their families.

43:58

Like that's unbelieved, ball,

44:00

That's what we all feared when we read

44:04

like no, no, that could never

44:06

have hilarious or well,

44:09

it's happening right now in East Turkistan.

44:11

Yeah, so it's important to recognize the surveillance

44:14

and the policing efforts by the Chinese government

44:16

exerts to subjugate the Turkic groups

44:18

in East Turkistan. Without raising awareness

44:20

about this, we risk ignoring the mobilization

44:22

of China's force assimilation to continue

44:25

occupying East Turkistan and normalizing

44:27

invasive police states. Because it

44:30

sounds like a made up story that we read

44:32

in a book, but it's actually happening on

44:34

this planet. It's just the most

44:37

atrocious form of control

44:39

and it's so sinister. It's the worst use

44:41

of technology. It's really terrifying. But

44:44

one other thing we wanted to bring up about this was

44:47

a story that we heard that involved the NBA

44:50

so long before a tweet

44:53

in October of last year. It was supporting

44:55

the Hong Kong protesters. It spotlighted

44:58

the NBA's complicated relationship with Nina.

45:00

The NBA faced complaints from its own

45:02

employees over human rights concerns

45:05

inside an NBA youth development program

45:07

in China. That's what an ESPN investigation

45:09

found. American coaches at three

45:11

NBA training academies in China told

45:14

League officials that their Chinese partners were physically

45:16

abusing young players and failing to provide

45:18

schooling, even though Commissioner

45:20

Adam Silver said that the education would be

45:23

central to the program. According to multiple

45:25

sources with direct knowledge of these complaints,

45:27

the NBA ran into a myriad

45:30

of problems by opening one of the academies

45:32

in East Turkistan, the place

45:34

where the majority of weaker Muslims live, and

45:37

now they're being held in barbed wire concentration

45:39

camps. American coaches were frequently

45:42

harassed and surveilled in East Turkistan,

45:44

the sources said, and one American coach

45:46

was detained three times without a cause,

45:49

and he and others were unable to obtain

45:51

housing because of their status as foreigners.

45:55

A former league employee compared the

45:57

atmosphere when he worked in East Turkistan

45:59

to World War two Germany.

46:01

In an interview with ESPN about its findings,

46:04

NBA Deputy Commissioner in Chief Operating

46:06

Officer Mark Tatum, who overseas international

46:08

operations, set the NBA is reevaluating

46:11

and considering other opportunities for the academy

46:13

program, which operates out of the sports

46:16

facilities run by the Chinese government.

46:18

Last week, the league acknowledged for the first

46:20

time that it had closed the East Turkestan

46:22

Academy, but when pressed, Tatum

46:25

declined to say whether human rights

46:27

were a factor. We were somewhat

46:29

humble, Tatum set of the academy project

46:31

in China. One of the lessons that we've

46:33

learned here is that we do not We

46:35

need to have more direct oversight

46:38

and the ability to make staffing changes when appropriate.

46:41

The program, launched in is part

46:43

of NBA strategy to develop local

46:45

players in the basketball obsessed market,

46:48

which has made NBA China a five

46:50

billion enterprise. Most of the

46:52

former employees spoke on the condition of anonymity.

46:55

A non I can never say that word

46:57

because they feared damaging their chances for

46:59

future your employment. NBA officials

47:01

asked current and former employees not to

47:03

speak with ESPN for the story, and

47:06

an email to one former coach, public

47:08

relations officials added, please don't

47:10

mention that you have been advised by the NBA.

47:12

Not terrrespond God, the shade

47:14

is so real. But then one American coach

47:17

who worked for the NBA in China described

47:19

the project as a sweat camp for

47:21

athletes. Yeah,

47:24

at least two coaches left their positions in

47:26

response to what they believed was mistreatment

47:28

of young players. One requested

47:30

and received a transfer after watching Chinese

47:32

coaches strike teenage players, three

47:35

sources told us to ESPN. Another American

47:37

coach left before the end of his contract

47:40

because he found the lack of education and academies

47:42

unconscionable. I couldn't continue

47:44

to show up every day, he said, looking at these kids

47:46

and knowing they would end up being taxi drivers.

47:49

Wow, I mean, yeah,

47:52

that's a that's I don't know, it's a

47:54

crazy statement to make, Okay,

47:57

But not long after the academy has opened,

48:00

multiple coaches complained about the physical abuse

48:02

and the lack of schooling to Greg Stolt,

48:04

the league's vice president for international

48:07

operations for NBA China, and to

48:09

other league officials in China. It

48:11

was unclear whether the information was passed

48:13

onto NBA officials in New York, but

48:15

the NBA declined to make Stult

48:17

available for comment. Two

48:19

of the former NBA employees separately told

48:22

the ESPN that coaches at the academy is regularly

48:24

speculated whether Silver had been informed

48:26

of the problems. One of the employees

48:29

said, if Silver ever shows up We're all fired

48:31

immediately. It's

48:33

weird, Tatum to the NBA received a handful

48:35

of complaints that Chinese coaches had mistreated

48:38

young players and immediately informed

48:40

the local authorities that the league had zero attendance

48:42

for behavior that was anti ethical to

48:45

our values. Tatums and the incidents

48:47

were not reported at the time to league officials

48:49

in New York, including himself or Silver.

48:51

That's so weird, such a bullshit. I

48:54

just don't believe it, you know. I will tell you

48:56

that the health and wellness of academy athletes

48:58

and everyone who participates in our program is of the

49:00

utmost priority, Tatum said. Tatum

49:03

identified four separate incidents, though he

49:05

said only one was formally reported in writing

49:07

by an NBA employee. On three

49:09

of the occasions, the coaches reported witnessing

49:11

or hearing about physical abuse. The fourth incident

49:14

involved a player who suffered from heat exhaustion.

49:16

We did everything that we could given the limited

49:18

oversight we had, Tatum said. Three

49:21

sources who worked for the NBA

49:23

and China told the ESPN the physical abuse by

49:25

Chinese coaches was much more prevalent

49:27

than the incident's Tatum identified.

49:30

The NBA also brought in elite coaches

49:32

and athletic trainers with experience in

49:35

G League and Division One basketball to

49:37

work at the academy's One former

49:39

coach described watching a Chinese coach

49:41

fire a ball into a player's

49:44

voice at point blank range and

49:46

then quot kick him in the gut. The

49:49

coach said, imagine you have a kid who's thirteen

49:51

fourteen years old, and you've got a grown coach

49:53

who is forty years old hitting your kid. We're

49:55

a part of that. The NBA is a part of that,

49:58

and it's common for Chinese coaches to discipline

50:00

players physically, according to several people

50:02

with experience in player development in China,

50:05

Jin Ming Zang, an assistant professor of

50:07

Sports management at north Umbria

50:10

University in England. He grew up in

50:12

Mainland China and has ran extensively about

50:14

the Chinese sports systems. He said,

50:16

for most of the older generation, even by grandparents,

50:19

they take corporal punishment for granted and

50:21

even see as an expression of love and care.

50:23

But I know it might be criticized for people living

50:25

outside of China, the older generation

50:28

will see it as an integral part of training.

50:31

In the NBA hired Bruce Palmer

50:33

to work as a technical director at a private basketball

50:36

school in Donguan in

50:38

southern China. The program

50:40

predated the academies, and the school had

50:42

a sponsorship agreement that paid the NBA

50:45

nearly two hundred thousand dollars a year and

50:47

allowed the school to build itself as an NBA

50:49

training center. Yeah so, Palmer

50:52

spent five years in Donguan, and he

50:54

said he repeatedly wore in Chinese coaches not

50:56

to hit, kick, or throw balls at children. After

50:58

one incident, he said, he told a coach,

51:01

you can't do that to your kid. This is

51:03

an NBA training center. If you really feel like

51:05

hitting a fourteen year old boy and you think it's

51:07

going to help him or make him feel better, take him

51:09

off campus. But not here, because the NBA

51:11

does not allow this. Why the funk would you tell him to take

51:13

him off campus? Palmer said the school's

51:16

headmaster told him that hitting kids has been

51:18

proven to be effective as a teaching tool.

51:20

Jesus Christ. The issue

51:22

was so prevalent in the NBA academies

51:25

that coaches repeatedly told NBA

51:27

China officials, including Stolt, for direction

51:29

on hand how to handle what they saw as physical

51:32

abuse. According in three sources, the coaches

51:34

were told to file written reports to the NBA

51:37

office in Shanghai. One coach

51:39

said that he encountered no more issues

51:41

after filing report, but others said the

51:43

abuse continued. We weren't responsible

51:46

for the local coaches. We didn't have the authority,

51:48

Tatum said. We don't have the oversight of the

51:50

local coaches, of the academic programs,

51:52

or the living conditions. It's fair to say we

51:55

were less involved than we wanted to be. In

51:57

East Turkestan, players lived in cramped

51:59

dormatory worries. The rooms were meant for two

52:01

people, but a former coach said bunk beds

52:03

were used to put as many as eight to ten athletes

52:06

in a room. Players trained two to three

52:08

times a day and had few extracurricular

52:10

activities. NBA coaches and officials

52:13

became concerned that although education

52:16

had been announced as a pillar of the academy

52:18

program, the sports bureaus did

52:20

not provide formal schooling. When

52:22

the players, some as young at thirteen, weren't

52:24

training, eating, or sleeping, they were often

52:27

left unsupervised. Tatum said

52:29

the NBA was not aware of political tensions

52:31

or human rights issues in East Turkistan

52:34

when it announced it was launching the training academy

52:36

there in in August

52:38

eighteen, Slate published an article under the

52:40

headline why is the NBA in

52:43

East Turkistan? Well, the headline said, why

52:45

is NBA in Shinjang? The league is running

52:47

a training center in the middle of the world's largest

52:50

humanitarian atrocities. Then

52:52

later the NBA would received criticism from

52:54

congressional leaders, but it never addressed

52:56

the concerns or said anything about the status of

52:58

the facility until July, when

53:02

he was pressed by ESPN, Tatum repeatedly

53:04

avoided questions whether the widespread human

53:06

rights abuses in East Turkistan played a role

53:08

in closing the academy. Instead,

53:10

he cited quote many factors. He

53:13

said, my job, our job is

53:15

to take a position on every single human

53:17

rights violation, and I'm not an expert in every

53:19

single human rights situation or violation. I'll

53:21

tell you what the NBA stands for. The values of

53:23

the NBA are about respect, inclusion,

53:26

and diversity. That is what we stand for

53:28

and for finding the next yaoming regardless

53:31

of what is happening to your player. It's oh

53:33

weird. I just added that Nori

53:36

Turkle a week Our American activists, who

53:38

has been heavily involved in lobbying the US government

53:40

on Week Our Rights, told ESPN before

53:43

the NBA said it had left East

53:45

Tyurkenstan, that he believed

53:48

the league had been indirectly legitimizing

53:50

crimes against humanity. Even though

53:52

the NBA now says it left East Turkistan

53:54

in the spring of the league

53:56

did not respond to the letter. The East

53:59

Tykeistan and of the web page disappeared

54:01

soon after last week. In response

54:03

to Senator Blackburn of Tennessee, the

54:06

league row the NBA has no involvement

54:08

with the East Turkistan Basketball Academy

54:11

for more than a year and the relationship has

54:13

been terminated. John Palmfrey,

54:15

who's book The Beautiful

54:18

Country and the Middle Kingdom covering

54:20

the history of the U S. China relationship,

54:22

called the decision to put the academy in

54:25

East Turkistan a huge mistake that

54:27

made the NBA a party to a massive

54:29

human rights violation. Two

54:32

sources disputed that the NBA had any

54:34

plans to leave East Turkistan in the spring of

54:36

twenty nineteen. One coach said the

54:38

league was still seeking other coaches to move there

54:40

well into the summer, and that the league's statement to Blackburn

54:43

was quote completely inaccurate. The

54:45

coach said they're still trying to get people

54:48

to go out there. It didn't end because Tatum

54:50

said we're going to end this. The

54:52

article goes on much longer. I I kinda

54:55

cut it short because we did. I knew we wouldn't have

54:57

a ton of time to cover it. But it will be in our footnotes

54:59

if want to go and read more about the

55:01

nb A low key lying about being

55:04

a part of human rights atrocity.

55:06

Yeah, it's good to just bring up all the different

55:08

elements that are involved in legitimizing

55:11

the human rights abuses that China

55:14

continues to inflict

55:16

on, specifically weaker Muslims

55:18

in East Turkastan. But I

55:20

hope you guys got good information

55:22

of this episode. There's so much to cover. Again,

55:25

the article that we were sourcing for the majority

55:27

of this will be in our footnotes, as

55:29

long as all the other sources we pulled

55:31

from. But I encourage you

55:33

to just stay informed and

55:36

know what's going on, and educate

55:38

your friends and family about this because it's really

55:40

disgusting what's going on. It's a literal Holocaust,

55:43

Like we learned about the Holocaust being the most atrocious

55:45

thing to ever happen in our modern history,

55:48

and it's happening again. It's happening again.

55:50

It's just far away from you, and people don't look like

55:52

you. It's I

55:54

think it's hard to sympathize

55:57

when something is far away or something

56:00

doesn't involve you directly. But it's

56:02

so important to just remember these are human beings

56:04

and they're targeted for things that

56:06

are not Maybe they should. No

56:09

one should be in a concentration camp like

56:11

no one, no one. It's disgusting. We

56:13

hope this was informative. We hope it

56:15

really broke it down for you. Yeah,

56:18

I'm glad we could spend an entire episode on

56:20

it, because it's there's so much,

56:22

you know, like you're saying, and I even

56:24

feel like we kind of glossed over some

56:26

stuff in this, Like even though we've been talking for over an

56:28

hour, there's so much to unpack, Like,

56:31

there's so much more, And that's

56:33

why we always encourage you guys to just use

56:36

this as like a launching pad to do

56:39

your own education of yourselves. And especially

56:41

I feel like Black Lives Matter has made a

56:44

good effort in the value of

56:46

educating yourself, and so use that same initiative

56:49

and momentum to educate yourself on everything

56:52

else that's going on in the world, because that's

56:54

the only reason we make any change is by

56:56

educating ourselves and understanding the importance

56:58

of of learning about if Nike

57:01

is using forced labor and why we shouldn't

57:03

use like you shouldn't buy Nike unless they fix

57:05

that, you know what I mean. Don't buy into their

57:07

stupid like anti racist

57:09

ad which is powerful if

57:11

it didn't fucking use forced labor, you know

57:14

what I mean. So I guess

57:16

what I'm trying to say it is just stay skeptical, stay

57:18

informed, and don't just blindly

57:21

think that you're being woke by reposting

57:23

a Nike ad that uses

57:26

both black and white people. You know what I mean.

57:28

I don't know. Yeah,

57:30

So thanks so much for folloing. Check out

57:33

our footnotes for more information. You

57:35

can follow us at ethnically am

57:37

big on Instagram. You can

57:39

follow us at ethnically amp on Twitter.

57:42

You can email us at ethnically am big

57:44

at gmail dot com if you want to. I don't

57:46

know, still it too. You

57:49

can check our website Ethnically Ambiguous

57:51

pod dot com and I

57:53

am at Anna hosting on Twitter and

57:56

I am at Shiro hero on

57:59

Twitter and truro Hero on Instagram.

58:02

Next time we do a Soule episode, we'll read some

58:04

of these very nice reviews that we've been getting.

58:07

They really mean a lot to us and we see every

58:09

single one. So if you guys have a chance, write

58:11

us a review on your podcast

58:13

app or Apple podcasts or even

58:16

Facebook. And yeah, until

58:18

next time, stay informed. YEA

58:25

m m HM. Ethnically

58:35

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58:38

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