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1:10

l a hey

1:12

Ll. Hello,

1:14

Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode

1:16

of Ethnically. And we

1:20

have a great, great guest

1:22

today. M hmm. She's

1:24

a writer, a researcher. I

1:27

mean, and I would

1:29

say also like a Twitter

1:31

person you should be following. Okay,

1:34

We're making it easy for you. She's also

1:36

a podcaster. Yes, she's a podcaster.

1:39

She's basically the person

1:41

you want to get homework from. We

1:44

are joined by Tory Williams Douglas,

1:46

who's at Tory Glass on Twitter

1:49

or at white Homework. What

1:51

do we talk about with her? We talked about so many

1:53

amazing things. We talked about taking initiative,

1:56

doing your work, providing a place

1:58

for people to do their own homework so they have no excuse

2:00

we're looking at you Whitey's and we just

2:02

talked about her upbringing as a biracial woman. We

2:04

get into really good discussions about racing this in

2:07

this country. And so yeah, I think

2:09

you guys are gonna really like this conversation. Stay

2:11

tuned. Who are we? Where

2:14

are we tough? Who do we

2:16

become? What is it

2:19

to be? What to be?

2:21

Is it there are

2:23

Who are my parents?

2:26

Where are my parents? Why

2:29

are we born? We

2:32

are ethnically

2:35

ambiguous. Hey,

2:40

hey shrine, Hey, that was me

2:42

brings brings in. How

2:45

are you doing? You know? At like clockwork?

2:47

My Sirie turned on every time I

2:49

say hey, sharene my serious always

2:51

comes on, thinking I'm talking to it

2:54

or yeah, every time I

2:56

say Syria, every time I say not

2:59

only to never say my name. So yeah,

3:02

but um, sorry about that, no

3:05

problem. SII is

3:07

wondering how you are doing? Oh there,

3:09

I did it again, sent her my regards.

3:12

Well you did say Sirie that I did. You're right, You're right I did.

3:16

Um. Today we have another

3:18

lovely guest episode. I'm really

3:20

excited to talk to this guest. I admittedly

3:23

saved a bunch of my pleasant

3:25

trees or like getting to know this person for the podcast

3:28

because I want to learn with you guys. I

3:30

heard about her through Twitter. Her work really

3:32

fascinated me and I d

3:35

m her and here she is and I'm really excited

3:37

to talk to her to with all you guys. It's Tori

3:40

William Douglas or or Tori Glass. What

3:42

do you prefer? I should have asked you before we with your record,

3:44

But I mean, everyone on Twitter calls

3:46

me it's Tory Glass, but my name

3:49

is Tory williames cyclists, So okay,

3:51

well it's Tori Tories with us

3:53

today. Yes, yeah,

3:57

because Tori doug Glass,

4:00

Yes that is, and because I couldn't get

4:03

Tory Douglas and it was too long

4:05

for my at on Twitter.

4:08

So I think Tory Glass is great. It

4:11

is. It works really well. Yeah,

4:13

Tory Williams Douglas. I enjoy

4:15

the three the three names. Obviously, I go by

4:17

Sharie Lonnie. You know, it's my full name, so I respect

4:19

the three names still, but Tory Glass is

4:22

a good shortened version of that. So yeah,

4:24

I think. So it's worked out so far,

4:26

and it's a little too late to go back now. I think

4:29

now, is Williams the middle name or is

4:31

it like your parents but you took both last

4:33

names? Oh okay, you guys want

4:35

to get into the dirt. Williams

4:38

is my maiden name, I'm

4:40

the worst. Douglas is my

4:42

married name, but my kid's

4:45

last name is Douglas, so I kept it

4:47

easy piecy Okay, Yeah, I'm just

4:49

I'm always curious because my parents never gave

4:52

me a middle name, so I'm always like very fascinating.

4:54

I'm like, oh, so, so your parents chose

4:56

that, but you know, actually Williams.

4:58

That makes more sense because to be our daughters,

5:01

it's Williams. It's

5:03

a family name. No, but I mean in

5:05

my in my not defense, but like to

5:08

explain myself a little bit, my parents gave

5:10

me my sister's middle names, but usually

5:12

Arabs don't have or like for the most part,

5:15

we don't have middle names. My mom was just trying

5:17

to be like American immigrant

5:19

or like an like an immigrant to America, like I'm gonna

5:21

be cute and give the middle names and

5:24

literally mine, I think I said the on podcast

5:26

before, was like she saw a credit

5:28

in a movie, like someone's first name was

5:30

Lonnie and she was like, I like that,

5:32

and that was my middle name. And it means sky

5:34

in Hawaiian, so sweet

5:37

sky is what my name means. Persian

5:39

and farcia I mean and the Hawaiian

5:42

so that's a fun fact.

5:44

Anyways, um, let's

5:46

talk about Tori. Okay, As I mentioned,

5:49

I am saving all my getting to know use for

5:51

this podcast. I'm going to ask you the basics and get

5:53

to know you along with our audience. But tell

5:56

us Um, where you're from and where

5:58

you're currently at right now? I

6:00

uh was born and raised and

6:03

currently live in Portland, Oregon. So

6:05

I've lived in the Pacific Northwest my whole life,

6:08

basically just Portland and Seattle. Despite

6:11

the dearth of people of color

6:13

in Portland and Seattle's,

6:15

Seattle feels really diverse to me, let's just

6:17

say that. So but yeah, I love

6:20

it here. I love the Pacific Northwest. And we

6:22

have our our Nazis and whatnot, But so

6:25

far I've managed to stay off the radar,

6:28

thank thank goodness. Can we we can swear

6:31

right? Yes? Yes? Okay,

6:34

cool? Yeah, this is where I grew up. I

6:36

was born and raised here, and yeah, from

6:39

kind of a really young age, I actually started

6:41

noting noticing like the racial disparities

6:43

in the city. Um, you

6:46

know, my dad is black and he's

6:48

you know, growing up, he was my absolute favorite person

6:50

in the whole world, and so it really was

6:53

striking to me as a little little kid, how

6:56

many unhoused people I saw

6:58

who looked like my dad. How many people we were clearly going

7:00

through some kind of crisis, who looked like my dad. So

7:02

that was the kind of you know,

7:05

became is now like my career

7:08

talking about like anteriorist education

7:11

and um kind of examining

7:14

data and structural harm

7:16

and systemic causes for things. But in

7:18

Portland it was kind of acute, just

7:21

the disparity, I mean so much so that

7:23

you know, I've been noticed in like elementary school

7:26

that said, like, I still love this town.

7:28

So you know, what are you gonna do? Yeah?

7:31

Yeah. I visited Portland or the Pacific

7:33

Northwestern General for the very first time last

7:35

winter, and I've always felt really drawn to

7:37

it because I'm obsessed with forests, but I

7:40

fell in love with it. It is so beautiful up there,

7:42

especially. I was there like in the late fall,

7:44

like November ish, like early winter, and

7:48

um, I would stay there too if I grew

7:50

up there. It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. Um,

7:54

I think I belonged in a forest in Portland. In

7:56

in Oregon, I think I think I've always

7:59

known that my heart. Um,

8:01

but you mentioned your dad is black, that are

8:03

you by Rachel? Yeah, my mom

8:05

my mom is white. So I'm like a fifth

8:07

generation Oregonian on my mom's side, well,

8:11

her great great grandfather immigrated

8:13

to Oregon from Germany

8:16

in the eighteen eighties. And then my

8:18

dad I grew up in Philadelphia.

8:21

Wow, and what led your father

8:23

to Oregon? My mom?

8:26

How did they meet? He was he didn't

8:28

know that, like, he didn't know that there was anything out here.

8:31

I mean he thought that it was like mostly

8:34

Indian reservations. Yeah,

8:37

he was just like it's the wild West. That's didn't

8:39

know anything about the West coast. So, yeah,

8:43

how did they meet? Your parents? My

8:45

parents met because my

8:48

dad was in the army

8:50

working he was stationed at a NATO

8:53

base in Oslo, Norway, and

8:55

my mom was working at the British embassy

8:57

even though she is not British in

8:59

Oslo. Yeah, well that's

9:01

how they met because they were too like Americans who

9:03

spoke English. Yeah. Wow, it's

9:06

pretty wild. That is wild. That's a great

9:08

that's a good movie story. You're drawn

9:11

together. That's how it goes. Like my parents both

9:13

came from Iran and met in Utah because they were like,

9:15

oh, you're Iranian, I'm Iranan. Let's

9:17

hang out. That's the way it goes. You

9:20

got to find your people. I know, Utah.

9:22

It's very random, but that was it

9:24

has to be Utah because they had to have seen each

9:26

other and be like there there's a Persian. Yeah,

9:29

they're like, okay, everyone else's Mormon.

9:32

And they met they met at a Mormon church

9:34

at a wedding, so it's like it really was like

9:36

all white people and them being like, oh, you happen

9:38

to just casually know this person. I do too,

9:41

Let's hang out because we're both Persian and

9:44

everyone else's Mormon. I guess. I

9:46

imagine at the time they must have like they must

9:48

have had like one white friend or something that was like,

9:50

I know someone that's perfect for you, and just

9:52

like the only other person they knew. Probably yeah,

9:55

well it was I think at the time in the seventies,

9:57

University of Utah let in a lot of Iranian

10:00

students previous, previous

10:02

to the revolution because everyone

10:05

was just applying in Utah was just like yeah,

10:07

come on down. I guess, so a

10:09

lot of Persians in Utah.

10:12

So I love that your your parents origin

10:14

story, like meeting anyway, it was, It's really

10:16

it always fascinates me. I really like it. But

10:18

that's crazy. They met, and they met in Norway and they moved

10:21

back together to the States. Yes,

10:24

yeah, they did. They you know, traveled

10:26

around Europe for a little

10:28

while after my dad was done with Um,

10:31

I was I gonna see his army contract after

10:34

he was done with his tour. It's

10:36

not really a tour if you're like just in a bunker

10:38

in a mountain side and where why is it? But

10:41

so, yeah, they like traveled around Europe

10:43

and drove Lace. Um.

10:47

Can I ask if they're still together because that sounds where they

10:49

are? Okay? I like that. That sounds

10:51

like they really fell in love. Yeah, this is

10:54

like forty two years ago. Wow. Wow,

10:57

it's wild. That is wild has

11:00

like mid seventies. That's

11:02

crazy. And my parents just celebrated their anniversary

11:05

earlier this month, And I

11:07

just can't really grasp wrap my head around someone

11:09

being with the same person for

11:11

so long. That is a commitment. That's

11:14

someone you really grow with, right, I

11:16

don't know. I don't think I'm wired like

11:18

that to be neither me either. Um

11:23

okay, So your parents moved to Portland

11:26

when you were growing up. Were there are a lot of kids

11:28

that looked like you? What was your experience

11:30

like growing up by racial in Portland when

11:33

you were a kid? Honestly,

11:35

like most most of the kids

11:38

that I met, so, I was homeschooled,

11:40

which is very normal for Portland, but

11:42

very weird for like a black kid in

11:45

Portland's um so,

11:47

but like most of the you know, most of the kids

11:49

that I met just around tended

11:52

to think that I was Mexican, which

11:54

I was always you know, I

11:56

mean, I do have like Mexican

11:58

heritage, so I was fine with that. I always

12:00

thought that was kind of cool. Um, But it

12:03

was always only the black kids who ever knew that I was

12:05

next so um

12:07

because there were just a lot more Latin

12:09

X people in Portland when

12:12

I was younger, and just you know, it

12:14

wasn't it wasn't a super diverse place.

12:17

Obviously. Oregon has a huge, long,

12:20

storied, very undocumented

12:22

history with racism being part

12:24

of like being the law here. So

12:27

as I got a little bit older, like Junior High,

12:29

we started getting some like black neighbors.

12:32

So you could definitely see that the

12:34

city was getting more diverse. From

12:36

my perspective, that makes sense. Yeah,

12:38

I feel like based on what I understand

12:41

about Oregon, is that now

12:44

correct me if I'm wrong KKK

12:47

was formed up there? Is that right? Or

12:49

if I um

12:51

so, the clan wasn't formed

12:53

here, but it was like one of it was like one of the biggest

12:56

chapters in the country, or it may have been

12:58

the the biggest. Yeah, I always

13:00

I have a few friends who live in Oregon, Eugene

13:03

specifically, and I have friends in Seattle who

13:05

travel around Oregon a lot, and I

13:08

always I hear it's like kind of,

13:10

you know, a lighter place, if

13:12

you will. But um,

13:15

my own experience with it, maybe because I've been to Portland

13:17

a lot, it feels more diverse, but

13:19

I think it is. It is it mostly just kind

13:21

of like in the bigger cities you would

13:24

find more diverse demographics

13:26

and then kind of like out in the countryside or

13:28

you know, I don't know exactly, maybe the forest. I don't

13:30

fully know the environment, is

13:33

it less like diverse? I

13:36

mean, I mean, of course, you tell

13:38

me you live there. Oregan is pretty

13:40

wild. Like Portland is definitely

13:43

like the blue bubble that everyone talks

13:45

about, right, Um, but because

13:47

of the population breakdown,

13:50

like Portland controls like the politics

13:53

of the entire state. So yeah,

13:55

I mean Portland is more diverse

13:57

than Utah. I

14:00

guess that's a good thing then if it controls the

14:02

politics and it's a kind of a

14:04

liberal hub, right Yeah,

14:07

But I mean the rest of the state kind of resents

14:09

us, right, that's yeah,

14:12

makes sense, Like you know, I

14:14

would, I would, you know, like like Atlanta

14:16

is a good example that being reversed. It's like I

14:18

would resent that like everybody outside

14:20

of my city controlling everything in the state.

14:23

But yeah, so Oregon

14:25

is like, it's just it's just a really fascinating place

14:27

because there was some acts that was like written

14:31

to move Native

14:33

people off of like reservations so

14:35

they could close them down. So there was this this incentive

14:38

program that was actually really gross and exploitative,

14:40

and so there were a lot of Native people who

14:43

came here under coercion. I

14:46

guess is I mean that's the only way

14:48

that I can really expelled here essentially

14:50

essentially, Yeah, yeah, that they were, you know,

14:52

because it was like this preparative therapy

14:55

essentially for Native people. Were like we want

14:58

you to be white, yeah, or

15:00

to perform whiteness. Right, So

15:03

there are a lot of Indigenous people here,

15:05

and then yeah, there's really big, kind

15:08

of vibrant Latino community here, I

15:10

think in large part because Oregon is mostly

15:12

an agricultural state, right, So there's

15:14

a lot of people who are

15:17

here who are undocumented because you

15:20

know, their parents or families came here to

15:22

just try to make a living. And then yeah,

15:24

like I think Portland is seven

15:27

percent black and Oregon is like two percent

15:29

or less than two percent black. So well

15:32

yeah, mm hmm. Well so

15:35

growing up because you your work now

15:37

is it deals with race

15:40

and the implications of racism and working

15:42

to combat it and educating anti racism.

15:45

When you were in high school, when you went to when

15:47

you studied after that, where you did

15:49

you know this is what you wanted to do or like what were

15:51

you interested in when you were a teenager? Um?

15:54

I mean I always wanted to

15:57

do education of some sort.

16:00

I didn't want to be like a teacher necessarily,

16:03

but I always knew that I've always loved

16:05

to write, So I I always

16:07

kind of wanted to do some kind of education.

16:10

I just sort of it just sort of happened

16:12

that, like I

16:15

was able to make this transition.

16:17

But yeah, it wasn't it wasn't

16:19

my intent from the jump, Like I didn't

16:22

necessarily see myself doing doing this

16:24

work. What did you see yourself

16:26

doing? Like what were your passions? Oh,

16:29

okay, let's be here. So I

16:32

initially, like kind

16:34

of right out of high school, I

16:36

went to Bible College, and

16:39

I was just like taking business classes, like I

16:41

didn't really I didn't really know what I wanted to do, right,

16:43

So it's like this kind of expensive

16:45

for not really having any idea where

16:48

I want to go with it. So um

16:50

yeah. I was just like, Okay, I'll come back to

16:53

this when I know what I want to do. And I just like when

16:55

I got a job somewhere where

16:57

did I get a job? I don't even remember, um

17:00

u. So I kind of like bounced around for a while

17:02

and then wound up at wound about a neuroscience

17:04

lab, which is

17:07

yeah, talk about failing up

17:09

rightly, that's reserved for white guy,

17:13

um yeah. And it was really incredible.

17:15

So I got to work at

17:18

this neuroscience lab here in town and

17:21

work for several black neuroscientists

17:24

in Portland and a

17:26

lot of people in the lab or doing

17:29

research on race and bias

17:31

and the way that trauma affects

17:34

genetics. And it

17:37

was a really incredible experience

17:39

to be able to work there. And then I kind

17:41

of fell into doing anti

17:43

racism work because at all of these white

17:45

people on Twitter asking me what they were supposed to do about

17:48

racism. Of course,

17:50

of course, Yeah, what

17:53

to do about racism? It's like the

17:56

what is it that? What what to do about love? Is

17:58

that? I just make that up? Was that Shakespeare? I

18:01

don't know much ado about nothing to do about

18:03

nothing. I don't know why that completely about

18:06

racism? The classic play

18:09

that. But

18:12

that's really interesting that you worked at a neuroscience

18:14

lab and they were studying that stuff. That must have been so fascinating.

18:17

I do think there's an element of

18:20

generational trauma that has

18:22

passed down. I

18:24

feel like if I were you, that also would have sparked my interest

18:27

in studying that as well. After

18:29

that happened, Like did you find yourself becoming an

18:31

educator because people were asking you and then you established

18:34

that role for yourself? How did you make

18:36

it your own thing? So I'm a

18:38

very avid tweeter and

18:41

I'm really responsive right less

18:44

so now because actually more people

18:46

calling me, I mean it worked for me? Oh

18:49

yeah true? Um

18:51

so yeah,

18:54

I was like writing about anti racism

18:56

and just kind of like tweeting

18:58

it out into the reverse and kind

19:01

of inadvertently wound up

19:03

with the people following me and

19:06

being asked a lot of questions and

19:09

essentially I created

19:12

white homework because it was just a way to

19:14

streamline like, Okay, I don't

19:16

know, like, as you're asking me, as a white

19:18

person that I've never met, never talked to you before, what

19:20

you specifically are supposed to do arracism, And

19:22

I'm like, I don't know, because I don't know how much privilege you

19:24

have, Like I don't know how much socio economic privilege you have.

19:26

I don't know how much access you have. I don't know how much

19:28

margin you have in your life, like if you

19:30

you know, if you're able or disabled,

19:33

like you know, I don't know those things. So you

19:35

have to figure that out on your own and then go support

19:37

the work that's being done in your community already because

19:40

you are not qualified to go and like reinvent the

19:42

wheel here. Um. So

19:44

yeah, that was sort of that was sort of how it happened. Was

19:46

it was just people were asking me, and I was like, well, I

19:48

mean, as I'll turn this into a thing because

19:52

there's clearly a need for it. And

19:55

I also think that people like the

19:57

accessibility part, Like I think

20:00

that they like being able to communicate with me because I'm pretty

20:02

communicative still on I

20:04

G and Twitter. If I have

20:07

the time and the energy like I'll totally answer people's

20:09

questions about stuff, but yeah, it was

20:11

really white homework was really just like streamline

20:14

that process that I could save myself the

20:16

time of having to go through and like ask people like

20:18

all these questions and like, Okay, how do you

20:20

how do you feel about this? Like how many

20:22

people do you know in your community? Like right?

20:25

So and realizing

20:27

that not I mean like again, like not all

20:29

white people know the same types of

20:31

people, right, Like I one time I tweeted

20:34

out like a pole and I just

20:36

I was just like, okay, if you're right, do

20:38

you know someone who's a police officer? And I thought

20:41

that like eight percent of people would

20:43

say, oh, yeah, for sure, like someone in my family's

20:45

a cop or like you know my neighbor or

20:47

whatever. It was like it was almost the opposite

20:49

was like of people so

20:51

that they personally knew a cop. And I was like, oh,

20:53

this is very surprising, Like and

20:57

you know my assumptions again we're

20:59

like, oh, this is correct least for people that follow

21:01

me. Um so, I like this is

21:03

probably like me saying hey, go sit down

21:05

with that copy you know, probably isn't going to be effective

21:07

messaging for most of the people say, because apparently

21:09

most of them don't actually know any police officers,

21:12

so it's been a learning curve. But I just I

21:14

did very much like make it up on my own. I

21:17

mean, I really respect that, and I

21:19

respect that you use your time in that way because

21:22

as people of color, and as

21:24

women also women

21:26

of color, I think we're we are

21:28

forced into both an educator

21:30

role and add an activist role

21:33

without us even meaning to just by existing,

21:35

Like I think we exist and people expect

21:37

us to just be educators and activists

21:40

because we exist in a world that is

21:42

marginalized, marginalizes us. But

21:45

I'm glad that you kind of use

21:47

that to your advantage in your life. Well, if I'm

21:49

going to do this, I'm going to I'm going to do it my way.

21:52

I'm going to do it. Well yeah,

21:55

yes, exactly. You should get paid. That's

21:57

what I always want to say. It's like, if you're gonna be asking your

22:00

friends, like how do I help, it's like

22:02

venmo them because you're making

22:04

them do the work for you, Like, come on, like

22:07

at least have some sense to realize, like

22:09

you can you don't, you

22:11

know, as someone because we started a podcast, we

22:13

get tweeted out a lot. I get tweeted at things,

22:16

and I have much less

22:18

patience, I would say for certain

22:20

things because I have never

22:23

felt comfortable like asking

22:25

questions, because I always you know, I've

22:28

always you know, it took a long time for me to find my

22:30

voice. So like everything I did,

22:32

I was like, you gotta figure it out yourself. You gotta figure out yourself.

22:34

No one's here to help you. You were just like this little

22:37

Ranian girl that like it's too scared to speak

22:39

up. So my big thing is like just google

22:41

it. Like I do everything by googling

22:43

it. I watch YouTube videos if I need

22:45

to learn stuff, Like I'm a simple

22:48

woman who is like I don't. I just

22:50

don't know, so I'll just go google it. And I feel

22:52

like a lot of people be like, well, Anna, how do I

22:54

fix this problem I have with my racist

22:57

like family. Like it's like all this stuff where I'm

22:59

like, well, some problem you can't fix, but

23:02

I don't know how. I don't know your life. I don't know how to

23:04

fix it for you. You just have to like

23:06

go and read and get therapy

23:08

if you need it, Like there's so many

23:10

outlets. But then you know, you start a podcast, and

23:12

everyone's like, hey, you you answer the

23:15

questions, and and I am like, and

23:17

then you put under this lamb. Not if we

23:19

say anything wrong or anything. We're just like

23:21

scrutinized in a way, or the whole premise

23:23

of our podcast with that were like relatable. We don't

23:26

know anything at all. Of a sudden,

23:28

we're like we have to know everything. Like I'm

23:30

reading the same articles you're reading yet

23:33

to learn. I'm just like regurgitating it because

23:35

I read it and I have a podcast. But it's like you

23:37

can also still go read that versus

23:40

having me tweet an

23:42

explanation back at you. My

23:44

gosh, yes, they want like they want want

23:46

to be spoon fed. Yeah, Okay,

23:49

we're gonna say a quick commercial break. We'll right back. I want

23:51

to talk more about white homework. Don't go anywhere,

24:02

and we're back with Tori before

24:05

the break, and I brought up a really good point

24:08

about how something that

24:10

really really bothers me is this

24:12

lack of initiative that certain white people

24:14

have. Because the lack of initiative

24:16

is what really gets me is just like a lot of

24:18

questions that we get asked, a lot of questions that part of the

24:20

black people probably get asked are things that you can

24:23

google? Are things that you should ask your white

24:25

friends, not people of color? Um,

24:27

And that lack of initiative is something that I really

24:30

that really grinds my gears because it's right

24:32

that term. But I can't do anything else. But because

24:35

you're right, they do want everything spoon fed

24:37

to them. But I think with white homework,

24:39

what you've done is they

24:41

have no excuse not to educate themselves.

24:43

Now you know what I mean. There's no excuse because

24:46

if they do want to learn, there's a thing right

24:48

in front of them, but they can listen to and

24:50

interact with. UM. So let's talk

24:52

about that. Let's talk about what white homework is

24:55

and just tell a listeners like, what

24:57

how you created it? We

25:00

kind of got the orange story a little bit, but I want to go more in

25:02

depth. Yeah.

25:04

Wait, homework essentially came about because

25:07

I was talking to one

25:09

of my Twitter friends and

25:13

she's been in recovery for like twenty

25:15

five years. I think, sorry,

25:17

Gretchen if I got that wrong. UM, And

25:20

uh, she paying

25:22

me one day and she was like, I just had a thought, like

25:24

I feel like white people respond

25:27

to being called on

25:30

white privilege. The way that

25:32

I responded when someone called me out on

25:35

drinking, I was like, oh

25:39

damn, Like yeah, because it's like you get really

25:41

defensive, right, you have this kind of immediate

25:44

physiological reaction to

25:46

what the person is saying. And so

25:49

I really I was like, Oh, this is so fascinating.

25:51

And then essentially and

25:53

this is you know I've been doing. I've been writing

25:55

and tweeting and whatever,

25:59

and I was like,

26:01

Oh, this is really interesting. And then at

26:04

some point, you know, it's kind

26:07

of during the same same time, it was like the

26:09

same couple of weeks, I realized

26:11

because I'm trying to think of a name for this

26:14

educational resource that I wanted to create,

26:18

and yeah, I was like, oh, like, I want

26:20

to give white people who want to do the

26:22

work homework so

26:24

that I so that they stopped asking me to do their

26:26

homework for them. Um, that's

26:28

essentially what it is. It's like you're in school

26:31

and you're like, can you do this hope, can you do this thing for me?

26:33

Can you do for me? Right? Exactly,

26:36

And initially, like my thought was

26:38

kind of okay with the name white

26:40

homework, like I'm only going to get

26:42

like very specific people who were interested

26:44

in this. Right, I'm not going to get

26:46

the people who refused

26:50

to be called white, right,

26:52

and I'm not going to get the people who refused

26:55

to do the work. And so I'm automatically

26:57

like precluding these people from

27:00

this resource so they don't have to filter

27:02

through all that. You just like this name

27:04

tells people what it is and also like

27:07

pushes away anyone who doesn't actually

27:09

want to show up right and actually

27:11

like learn. Um

27:14

So I created these little my homework

27:17

lessons and I just posted them up

27:19

on my website, um and I put them

27:21

on my Patreon as well, and I was like, hey,

27:23

okay, here's here's your thing. Here's what you

27:25

do. Go and find out

27:27

like these ten to twenty

27:31

things about your community regarding

27:33

indigenous people, if you're if you

27:35

live on stolen land, regarding like mass incarceration,

27:38

finding out like who owns the prisons, who built

27:40

the prisons in the state where you live, if

27:42

your business or your industry

27:45

reflects the diversity of your

27:47

city or state. Like Okay,

27:50

so you go whatever it is, Like, you go, you do

27:52

the work, you get the information, and then put

27:54

together a list of prompts at the ends.

27:57

It's like you feel that all these little questions

27:59

that are pretty like most of them are something

28:01

you know you can just go and google. But

28:03

then I tell people to go and have conversations

28:06

with the information that they find out right,

28:09

so like I have a white homework

28:11

resource. It's anti racism in the workplace.

28:14

So it's literally like

28:16

the prompts are going and having conversations

28:19

with like management or hr

28:22

right and saying, Okay, what is the process

28:24

here? If somebody comes in and says, hey,

28:26

this situation happened, it was racist, I'm not

28:28

okay with this, Like what are you going to do? Like really,

28:31

like how are you going to respond? Are you gonna just dismiss

28:33

it? Is it like oh if there was a white person

28:36

there, you're going to take that seriously? Like what

28:38

what exactly? Like how is this gonna shake out?

28:40

And just getting people to really drilled down

28:43

on the specifics of like where

28:45

they live and work and asking

28:48

asking questions of people who have you

28:50

know, power or authority or privilege or whatever

28:52

the case maybe and then finding ways

28:55

to essentially serve

28:58

people who are marginalized is

29:00

in their own communities by

29:03

reaching out to activists

29:05

and people that are already doing the work and people that

29:07

are already out there and passionate

29:10

about it. And then I also have a podcast

29:12

called by Homework, and I

29:14

don't know, I think it's pretty cool. So

29:18

we just talk about like race, racism,

29:21

um, anti racism, and

29:23

restorative justice because I think that one thing

29:25

that like within the framework

29:28

of like Western imperialism

29:30

and white supremacy, like there's no imagination

29:33

for like what another

29:35

system could even look like, right, Like

29:37

I think that I think white supremacy really hampers

29:41

like any kind of imaginative growth

29:43

or exploration, right And you know you have I

29:46

have had many conversations with people who

29:48

are like, well, capitalism is the best we can

29:50

do. It's like, okay,

29:52

so you believe that human ingenuity

29:55

is limitless except when it comes to

29:58

money, money and resources,

30:01

Like that's really what you're telling me you believe right

30:03

now? Is that it's like I mean, and to me, that's like saying,

30:05

well, chemotherapy is the best we can do. Guess

30:07

guess we solve cancer? Like what like

30:10

now, come on, like we can do better

30:12

than this. It just takes a lot of fucking work, and

30:14

you have to be willing to do that work and invest

30:16

in doing the work. Um.

30:19

So yeah, I've

30:21

kind of using

30:24

this tool for people to kind of

30:26

um dig in and and

30:28

do the work on their own and um

30:30

with my podcast, I also do try to

30:32

have like a little bit of fun with it because racism

30:36

one is sucking, exhausting, it's exhausting

30:38

to talk about. So it's nice to be able to

30:41

like joke around and make fun. And

30:43

also racists aren't very smart people,

30:45

so it's pretty easy to make fun of them. Um,

30:48

generally speaking, Yeah, there are there are a few

30:50

really intelligent racism. I won't deny that. Um,

30:54

But um,

30:56

I wanted to be a place where people could just like sit down,

30:58

listen, learn, and so have it not be

31:01

like this very academic. It's not a lecture.

31:03

It's a conversation, yes, exactly.

31:05

I wanted to be accessible to people and

31:07

hopefully to make people laugh because I feel like that

31:10

helps people remember ship rights.

31:12

Why yourself you tend to remember where

31:14

you were, like what you were supposed

31:16

to, what I DIA is we're supposed to. Yeah,

31:19

I agree with that. Yeah, I feel like that's

31:21

what we came into our podcast with the idea

31:23

of trying to make the material

31:25

when we're discussing digestible and

31:28

not feel like a lecture and

31:30

it's really just a conversation. And

31:33

I do really appreciate that you encourage

31:35

white people with white

31:38

homework had these uncomfortable conversations

31:40

with other white people, because it's

31:42

really exhausting as a black person,

31:44

as a person of color to be your own advocate

31:47

at all times, because you need people

31:49

that can reason with white

31:51

people to help

31:53

to help the marginalize. You can't just keep

31:55

fighting on your own. It's like we're seeing right now

31:58

in the entertainment industry a lot of people talking

32:00

about the lack of representation, whether

32:02

it's in the writer's rooms or with voice

32:05

acting or whatever. And those decisions

32:07

happen because you don't have more than one

32:09

person of color in the room sometimes and so

32:12

that person is not going to stand up because they're

32:15

afraid of losing their job or they're like, if

32:17

there is more than one person at the minimum,

32:19

you would have a support system, and you can't

32:21

have that if white people don't have

32:23

conversation with each other and try to work

32:25

on the problem themselves. Because that's a that's

32:28

a true ally. There's a lot of per formative

32:31

ally ship. We've around right now. But

32:33

a true ally ship is someone that actually

32:35

does the work, and so I really appreciate you

32:37

for encouraging that. Yeah,

32:40

I am the type of person who I struggle

32:42

to take in information if it's like very

32:44

dry, which is again what

32:46

you're saying why we started this podcast,

32:48

because I mean, like a lot of

32:50

the info I get is

32:53

from Twitter. Like I

32:55

I have that sort of an attention span that

32:57

one I it's hard for me to read

33:00

books because I'm a little like dyslexic,

33:02

where like i can't read certain

33:04

like intellectually based like

33:06

texts where I I will start a sentence

33:08

and I'll get lost halfway through the sentence and I'll

33:11

be like, wait, like what are they trying to say? And it's

33:13

the most normal thing to be, like, I just I don't

33:16

have the brain to take in these sorts of things, which

33:18

is why I really like Twitter, and that's why I

33:20

like go out of my way to follow people

33:22

I think are true voices

33:25

of our generations in the sense like they're

33:27

like black men, black women, any

33:30

sort of person of color that I feel like is saying something worth

33:32

my time, because that's the way I can take it

33:34

in. And everyone's different. So it's like you

33:36

don't have to be someone like reading these books,

33:38

Like you've got to find your own way to like

33:41

take it in and so you know if

33:43

it's going to you know, your

33:46

white homework and doing it that way, or

33:48

like, you know, any sort of like just

33:50

I always say this, Google Black

33:52

voices to follow on Twitter, Like I literally

33:55

did that because I was like, all these goddamn

33:57

comedians I'm following are still making jokes, and

33:59

I feel I'm lost, and I don't

34:01

care about these jokes. I want to know what

34:04

people are saying about what's going on, like

34:06

real thoughts that matter, um,

34:08

that can help me digest and

34:11

like feel what

34:13

a black person feels. Like I

34:15

I have the privilege of being a light skin

34:18

Middle Eastern woman, Like, yeah,

34:20

I have my own issues, but like I get to

34:22

walk through this goddamn world and

34:24

honestly, no one really says anything to me, Like I've

34:27

never really I've had some issues with the cops, but that's

34:29

my own problem, being like fucked up, But like

34:32

I don't ever really have to deal with any sort of like

34:34

issues. You know, my life is easy.

34:36

So I wanted these perspectives

34:39

and I had to go find it the way I did. And also

34:41

a big thing for me is like I like fiction,

34:43

so historical fiction is like how I learn

34:46

about certain eras, Like I have to

34:48

read like Tony Morrison books to be

34:50

like, okay, you know, it's a

34:52

story. That's how I take it in. That's

34:54

how I learned because it's like, yes, in in

34:57

school, I learned about slavery, civil

34:59

rights, Well what the funk happened in between?

35:02

Like I don't know anything that happened in between. No

35:04

one told me. I don't know about the Tulsa like

35:06

them literally burns Black

35:08

Wall Street. I don't know about that because they don't tell

35:10

you anything. And I had to be like, Okay, well

35:12

I'm gonna go read historical fiction so

35:14

I can like learn without me starting

35:17

to have like a panic attack that I'm too dumb to understand

35:19

things. And yeah, I mean that's

35:21

kind of why I appreciate. I really appreciate what you're

35:23

doing, because people like me need stuff

35:26

like that. We just I can't just go read an article.

35:28

I'll like close my mind and don't know what's

35:30

going on. But I think that's a

35:32

really good point. And I talked about this with my sisters

35:35

the other day, Like we didn't

35:37

learn about the Tulsa massacre. Like if you're not

35:39

if you're not black and your

35:42

parents aren't, Like if

35:44

you're not exposed to black history,

35:47

you're are. Our white education system here

35:50

missed out on everything, Like we didn't learn

35:52

ship. Most people didn't even

35:54

hear about June teenth until this year, Like

35:56

they didn't know what that was. Um, they

35:59

all say that Anna episode,

36:03

But I'm telling you and I talked about this and then I

36:05

don't know what when a couple episodes

36:07

ago. But by time you guys hear this. But a lot

36:09

of people they learned about the Tulson massacre

36:12

in the first episode of Watchman, the HBO

36:14

show, Like that's wild to me. And

36:17

I won't pretend that you what that was

36:19

until very recently because I'm trying to educate

36:21

myself too. But it is our responsibility

36:24

to educate ourselves because

36:27

we didn't have a good education system, Like

36:29

we can't be satisfied with what we were taught because

36:31

we weren't taught the right things and we weren't

36:33

taught enough. Um,

36:35

and even just watching documentaries about the Black Panthers

36:38

and about all these things that like literally

36:40

growing up in public high school, we were just taught

36:42

that like Malcolm X was the violent

36:45

black guy, Martin Luther King was the was

36:47

the peaceful one. They both thought shot

36:49

Boo who and the story Black

36:52

Panthers had guns for we're violent

36:54

they were, And that's it. Like it was the most

36:56

like disrespectful

36:58

way to talk about black people in

37:00

history. And so I do think it's our responsibility

37:03

to educate ourselves to to watch even

37:05

if if you absorb like like and I was

37:07

saying, you find the ways that you absorb material

37:09

best if it's movies and television.

37:11

You watch documentaries, you watch movies about

37:13

Malcolm X. The Denzil Washington

37:16

movie with Malcolm X honestly great.

37:18

It's it's it's like a very good representation.

37:20

It's autobiography from what I've read of

37:23

like people that have seen and read both

37:25

um, and I think, yeah,

37:28

to go back to what you're doing, People

37:30

that really want to be a good ally will take

37:32

initiative and educate themselves. And

37:35

um, I think performative

37:37

allyship is really easy, especially with social

37:40

media being like in all of our faces right now.

37:42

But to be an actual ally, you have to do

37:44

the work and you have to know who people are,

37:46

you have to know who Fred Hampton is,

37:48

and you have to know who all these people are that are essential

37:50

and black culture and essential and black history.

37:53

I was just talking about this with my my sister's the

37:55

other day. It was like, I guarantee

37:58

you most people that listen to most white

38:00

dudes that love Tupac, I have no idea

38:02

his mom was a black panther, Like that's essential

38:05

to his fucking life and his work

38:07

and his like core being why

38:09

he did what he did because his mom was revolutionary

38:12

and he became one too. People

38:14

don't know that. I don't know. I

38:16

don't know. Sorry, I'm getting heated. No,

38:21

it's true. It's like there's um,

38:24

I mean, I kind of kind of imagine like

38:26

American history as just being like

38:28

this tapestry of the flag and

38:31

someone just went through and pulled like all the

38:33

blue strings out and all the red strings

38:35

out, and it's just like this white kind of mass

38:37

and you can't really see anything Like That's

38:39

how I imagine American history is sort of taught,

38:41

is like you're taking all the color out and we're just gonna tell the whitest

38:43

part of the story. And yeah, sweet Okay,

38:46

cool, that's it. We're done. Because

38:48

yeah, I mean the thing is, it's like it doesn't

38:50

it doesn't serve the

38:52

people in power. Right, let's be honest

38:55

to tell the whole story, so we

38:57

don't write the American and

38:59

they're off. If it were told like

39:02

in a complete way is

39:04

pretty astounding, right, like it, I don't

39:07

think that it takes away from um,

39:10

I don't think that it takes away from like just

39:14

the wildness of America

39:16

existing at all. Right, to tell

39:18

the entire story. It just the

39:20

only thing that that does like erasist

39:23

people who were essential to making

39:27

this country what it is. But you

39:29

know, the thing that I constantly harp on with white

39:31

people's like we have to be able to deal with things

39:33

as they are, not as we wish they were,

39:35

as we want them to be. So that what

39:37

I mean by that is just like you have to have all

39:39

of the information, right, I mean for

39:42

me, when I first kind of started re educating

39:44

myself essentially, UM,

39:47

I started like when I would listen

39:49

to NPR or what I would

39:51

like listen this is kind of before podcast,

39:53

but listening to like the news or like

39:56

History Channel or whatever I would I start using

39:59

like emancipation is

40:01

like a reference point, right,

40:03

so if something was happening before was

40:06

like okay, slavery like in

40:09

the South, you know, if you're far enough back,

40:11

you know, Vermont was the only colony that was

40:13

admitted into the Union that had already abolished

40:16

slavery. And then after that point,

40:18

right then you have then there's

40:20

no slavery. But then you have like Jim

40:22

Crow. Once you get up to like five

40:26

ish sixty five or sixty eight, that's when you have like civil

40:28

rights legislation. And you

40:30

know, because people really to try to make it sound like

40:33

this it was ancient

40:35

history. And it's like my dad had to use

40:37

the fucking colored water fountain as a kid.

40:40

Like it's not ancient history, right, but

40:43

you know that as a as a black woman, right,

40:45

but like right when my dad was

40:47

growing up, like he had to use the colored toilet

40:49

and the colored entrance. It's

40:52

not it's not ancient history. But

40:55

yeah, I mean I still definitely had like educate

40:57

myself more, right because

40:59

I you know, even being fascinated

41:02

by Black American history,

41:05

I still wasn't taught enough.

41:09

I mean I was hardly taught any right, but

41:12

it was it was always something it was interesting to me, that was

41:14

fascinating to me, and so, um,

41:16

I kind of sought it out on my own. But

41:19

yeah, I mean, we don't. But that's

41:21

the thing we take initiative people

41:25

to do their own work again

41:29

work. And I have a question for you, but I'm gonna

41:31

ask you. We're gonna take a quick commercial break. We'll be

41:33

right back. All

41:43

right, we are back with

41:46

Tory Willams Douglas. Okay, So I'm

41:48

curious, like how much did your father

41:50

talk to you about kind of like black history

41:53

or your own experience as a

41:55

biracial woman or girl

41:57

at the time growing up in Portland, Like, did

41:59

you you any talks like hey, you know, things

42:02

might be weird, people might treat you differently or anything

42:04

like that. So it

42:06

was really interesting because like in the

42:08

eighties, like that was like the

42:11

height of integration, right,

42:13

and it was like the height of black

42:15

home ownership, and things

42:17

really did look like they were trending positively,

42:20

right. Um, kind of kind of

42:22

until Reagan got into office and started like undoing

42:25

things like like loosening

42:27

all of the screws and like we're gonna

42:29

let this just sort of sink down here, but not

42:32

super fast that people don't really notice. And

42:34

I think that in my dad's

42:36

in my dad's mind, he was like, Okay, if if

42:39

you just keep your head down and work really hard,

42:41

like it'll it'll shake out, right, not

42:44

really realizing what was happening, because I don't

42:46

think many I mean, I'm sure that

42:48

some people did, but I don't think many people really realized

42:50

what was happening, that America was becoming

42:53

um experience,

42:55

like I was going to kind of do this pendulum swaying

42:57

right of experiencing more and more and more inequality

42:59

and more and more and more segregation,

43:02

right, like self segregation as opposed

43:04

to legal segregation. So

43:06

I think that like in his mind, because

43:09

he had seen that we'd come like

43:11

so far right in fifteen

43:14

twenty years, I think that his thought was like,

43:16

Okay, if we just like keep our heads heads

43:18

down and like keep pushing, it'll

43:20

shake out for us at the end. I mean, he definitely

43:23

he absolutely experienced discrimination,

43:26

but I think that, you

43:28

know, he felt like the best way

43:31

to deal with that, to engage

43:33

with that was just to not make a stink

43:35

about it, right, which I feel like it's

43:37

very valid and I feel like a lot of. I feel like a lot of

43:39

people like his his age,

43:42

a lot of black Americans felt very similarly,

43:44

like if we just kind of keep our heads down,

43:47

like don't make a stink, like maybe we can

43:49

actually get to I don't know, parity

43:51

or equality. And

43:54

you know, again like not really realizing

43:56

that, you know, we started kind of taking the wheels

43:58

off the bus sort of once once Reagan

44:00

got into office, right, yeah,

44:04

I think, um, under

44:06

the guise of slavery

44:08

being over and progressiveness, we

44:11

took a different kind of turn in the country.

44:13

And that's what is really sinister

44:15

about the United States is that everything

44:19

that you think is just

44:22

whether it's the justice system or prisons

44:24

or anything like, it's just a different

44:26

kind of slavery. It's a different kind of racism.

44:29

Um. Again, I encourage you all, if you haven't seen

44:31

the movie, to watch that movie,

44:34

um, to understand why slavery

44:36

kind of just transformed into a different kind of

44:38

slavery. But I do have a question for you.

44:40

Do you know what year your parents were married? Um?

44:43

Yeah, So my parents got married in Because

44:48

I realize if your dad,

44:50

I mean, your dad's story is probably really

44:54

I mean, it's really interesting to me because not only did he

44:56

use colored found or

44:58

like different like ountains

45:00

for like black people and white people. But we

45:02

I don't know if I ever mentioned this in the podcast, but Loving

45:04

Day a couple a couple of weeks ago

45:07

by a time this comes out, Loving Day was, um,

45:09

it's a it's a it's on June twelve, and

45:11

it's um commemorating the

45:14

Supreme Court decision of Loving, the

45:16

Supreme Court case of Loving versus Virginia.

45:19

And it was basically commemorating by

45:22

like a biracial marriage like a like it's

45:24

like it was, Um, I believe it was a black woman and

45:26

a white man. They changed

45:28

the world forever. And that was in nineteen sixty seven.

45:30

And so your father probably grew up with

45:33

that being I mean, he did grow up with that being legal.

45:36

That's insane to me. That's that's insane.

45:38

Absolutely it's and

45:40

then he ended up like kind

45:42

of because because of that law, he was able

45:44

to marry your mom.

45:47

That's just and that's in recent history,

45:49

and people don't really realize that. Like I didn't

45:51

learn about Loving Day until this year. I'm not gonna pretend

45:53

to you about it until it happened on June twelfth,

45:56

but I'm never gonna forget it now. Yeah,

45:59

And I don't know, it's just it's Um.

46:02

I think I think your dad must

46:04

have had like I can only imagine what

46:06

was how he experienced it, I guess,

46:09

And I don't know. I

46:11

think it just goes back to thefortance of educating

46:13

yourself and um,

46:15

realizing that people have had different experiences than

46:18

you. And I think

46:20

like the mentality of

46:22

like just keep your head down and do the work is

46:24

a mentality that a lot of marginalized people

46:27

feel. Um. I know, and has talked

46:29

about it with like how we were raised

46:31

and stuff, um, because

46:33

that's what you think you're supposed to do. Um. Meanwhile,

46:36

white people are

46:39

just like having

46:41

all this power, yeah, and

46:43

kind of get to skate through, right, Like they're allowed

46:45

to make mistakes, they're allowed to funk up, they're

46:47

allowed to not ruin their life at you

46:49

know, twelve or fifteen or eighteen because

46:52

they maybe stole a pack of cigarettes,

46:55

right, that's not a death sentence for them,

46:58

where for us a lot more

47:00

risky. Yeah.

47:02

I could go anyway. I don't know. I could talk

47:04

about this forever, but it just makes me the

47:07

idea that talking

47:10

about black lives matter, or talking about black

47:13

justice or even black power indicates

47:15

that white people don't struggle, or white

47:17

people don't like haven't had hardships

47:20

in their life. It's not even about that.

47:22

It's it's just like your

47:24

parents didn't have like if you're a white person, like

47:26

your parents never had to worry about getting married

47:29

like you would. I mean, like it boils down to that, like

47:31

if if in our lifetime there are couples,

47:34

and and that couple still exists, by the way, if

47:36

I'm pretty sure, and it's maybe

47:38

hold on, maybe

47:40

I'm you mean they're still alive. Um,

47:44

that's what I mean. Yeah, they're still they still

47:47

Um, they still exist. But

47:53

they both passed. But Mildred she

47:55

she died. It was Mildred and Richard

47:58

Loving She passed to Way in two thousand

48:00

and eight, which is not even that long

48:02

ago. Um. I

48:05

only wanted to bring that up, just to bring up the fact that

48:07

like it's people want

48:09

to pretend it was ancient history and all these

48:11

black and white photos. Also, I did learn

48:13

something. I don't know how

48:17

much conspiracy theory you want to get into this, but

48:19

I was I read this article that was talking

48:21

about how they showed us in

48:24

schools. They showed us Martin Luther King Jr.

48:26

And Malcolm X in black

48:28

and white to make it seem like

48:30

it was a long time ago, even though they had color

48:32

back then in

48:35

history textbooks, in everything

48:37

we watched, I remember, they were always black and

48:39

white, but there was color back then. We saw JFK

48:42

and color, you know what I mean, Like that's

48:45

just like that's like this really subtle

48:48

racism and it's not even racism, it's

48:51

subtle historical manipulation.

48:54

Yeah, I don't

48:56

know, I've thought about that for a long time. I

48:58

really get bad. Yeah,

49:01

I mean I think that it again, it like kind of

49:03

serves like the narrative of

49:06

the people in America who want power,

49:08

which I think I've started using,

49:11

like I've started using that term the people the people

49:13

in America who want power to kind of distinguish

49:15

that, like not everybody wants not

49:18

everybody who's white wants power, and

49:20

not everybody who's a person of color doesn't

49:22

want power. Right, Like, there's you

49:24

can still you can kind of still be like

49:27

it's still possible to abuse the system

49:29

even as as a person of color, if you are

49:31

able to play the respectability politics.

49:34

Well enough, that's a really good point. Actually,

49:37

that's a good distinction to make. Yeah,

49:39

and I think that, you know, I

49:41

would I if I had to guess, I would say most

49:43

white people want power, right because like most

49:46

white people want to be wealthy so they don't

49:48

have to work. Um,

49:51

which is really cute when they tell the rest

49:53

of us just go get a job. But

49:57

yeah, I think that it doesn't it doesn't serve the

50:00

narrative of America, like

50:02

the myth of America. It's

50:04

it's really kind of essential to preserve

50:08

that and sort of calcify it. And at this point,

50:10

it's like, Okay, now we're going to talk about We're

50:12

gonna talk about all of it, right, We're not

50:14

content to just talk about the

50:18

the nice the nice parts, the parts

50:20

like where you get your hero who

50:23

you know, like, oh had

50:25

some flaws, Like hi, sorry, owning

50:27

other people is not a flaw. You're

50:30

sucking evil. Let's

50:33

just let's just be clear about this, okay.

50:35

But yeah, I mean I think that there are I

50:37

mean, the entire way that we are taught history

50:40

in this country is to like

50:43

preserve the myth mm hmm act.

50:47

I mean America would be better for everyone, white

50:49

people included, if we could get rid

50:51

of the myth and actually like be real,

50:54

be honest. And I think white

50:56

people don't really realize that. No,

50:59

the fact we were taught about mar Luther

51:01

King's assassination, Malcolm X's assassination

51:04

without even mentioning the FBI. The fact

51:06

that we never learned like I didn't learn about cointel

51:08

pro or I know how people actually say that a lot. I've only

51:11

read it, never said out loud, but I know totally

51:13

the whole program about how they literally

51:15

bugged black activists

51:18

and um, like they took

51:20

them down, like I'm convinced that

51:22

tupuxual Core was killed with the FBI, like you know what I

51:24

mean, Like I but we never

51:26

we were never taught about that element of

51:28

American history. We we were just talking they

51:30

were assassinated by some rogue white

51:33

person or something like I don't you know what I mean,

51:35

like not, And they never taught us

51:37

that, Like they were listening in on all

51:39

these prominent figures to

51:41

take them out because they were they were doing two.

51:44

They were wrestling the feathers of

51:46

this myth. Yeah, absolutely

51:49

well, And I I mean, I I don't like that's

51:51

that's not quit. Right, Like three

51:54

or four of the like primary

51:57

activists during the Ferguson uprising

51:59

have been found dead m and

52:02

scare quotes. Yep, the

52:04

police couldn't figure out who was because of

52:06

course they don't. They don't. Again,

52:09

it's like the cops don't serve

52:11

us, Like, they don't work for us, right,

52:13

they work against us. Actually, they work for people

52:16

with power and people, you know, people who

52:18

want power. The only people that

52:20

cops serve to protect are other cops

52:23

and people like that look like them.

52:25

That's why. That's how I always have thought. I mean,

52:27

like the reason when we've come to that realization is that

52:30

protectives are applies to other cops

52:32

and that's the government and really not

52:34

the people. Yeah.

52:37

Man, really, I

52:39

think I don't know. It's it's good to be angry,

52:41

though you can use it in a productive way.

52:44

Yeah, I mean, I think it's I think there's

52:46

a problem if you're not angry, honestly,

52:49

like, at this point, you don't you don't have any

52:51

more excuses. Yeah,

52:54

God, that's crazy that Sorry, I'm still thinking about the Ferguson

52:56

murders. That's wild. Like, yeah, they're

52:59

still out there at death is still pointil

53:01

prowing, you know what I mean, right

53:04

exactly that it's that it's like

53:06

it's still it appears to

53:08

be a trend and makes on what they've admitted

53:10

to us. With that trend in the past,

53:13

it kind of shakes out that m

53:17

M. I mean it lines up with the trend of the FBI

53:19

I submitted to right. And

53:22

again, those papers the

53:24

the FBI being exposed back in the

53:26

past only came out because people exposed

53:28

them, like they they they broke into a building

53:30

and they got papers that proved I

53:33

was policing and monitoring

53:36

prominent black voices that would

53:38

never have come out otherwise. Like we're

53:40

we're we need to take the history into our own

53:43

hands and show the truth,

53:45

because you're right, the myth is is

53:47

sinister and really prevalent every

53:50

aspect of our lives, whether it's black and white photos

53:52

or literally the prison

53:55

system just being like legalized slavery, you know

53:57

what I mean, It's just like I don't know. I

53:59

think that's why I really commend you and

54:01

your work should bring it back to you, is because

54:03

if people really do want to change, especially

54:06

if they're privileged, and I

54:09

mean if they're white, um, they usually

54:12

are. They don't want to relinquish that power

54:14

because there they benefit from the system that served

54:16

them, or they they've convinced

54:19

themselves that day someday will benefit because

54:21

they'll sunday have capital

54:24

and property, right,

54:26

Like that's part of the myths is like it's

54:29

really shitty if you're like a white person

54:31

and you're poor or even at this point, it's really if

54:33

you're white person in your middle class, like even that doesn't

54:35

get you very far anymore. Yeah,

54:38

but like part of the myth is like, oh, you you

54:40

too can be part of the top zero

54:44

point zero one. Yeah,

54:46

but you can't. You're more likely to be homeless

54:49

than to be a billionaire. But like, but

54:53

you know, again, like the myth serves

54:56

serves of people with power and people

54:59

who fire to power. I think

55:01

that the myths serves them, and it doesn't. I'm going to try

55:03

to really implement your phrasing here because

55:05

I think it's really a really accurate way to phrase

55:08

it. People that want power, Like example, like

55:10

the first example I think of like Candice Owens, Like

55:13

right, like like she's

55:16

not she's she wants power and

55:18

she's molded herself into

55:20

something that is palpable for the

55:22

people who are in power who are mostly white. But

55:25

it's it's a good example. It's not just it's not a black

55:27

and white issue. It's people that want power. There's

55:30

the people that don't have it. They're going

55:32

to try to really implement your phrasing going forward,

55:34

because I think it's very accurate. Yeah. I

55:36

mean, like the Attorney General of

55:39

Kentucky is a black man, right,

55:42

kind of still waiting on the people who murdered

55:45

Brianna Taylor to be arrested. But

55:47

he's black, but he's a Trump supporter, So hey,

55:50

I guess that's not going to work out very well.

55:52

Um. Yeah, it's like it really is about like whether

55:54

or not you want power, because there can all I mean,

55:58

there can always be people and

56:00

there will always be people in the system, um,

56:03

who benefit from

56:05

proximity to white

56:07

supremacy, right, Um, And

56:10

they don't also have to be white people. I mean,

56:12

the most one of the most conservative

56:14

people on the Supreme Court, it's

56:16

Clarence Thomas. So he's a black man.

56:19

Yeah, Like, let's just it's

56:22

just power. But he has so much power, that's

56:24

the thing. So yeah, it's

56:26

not that clear cut. Wow. Um,

56:29

I can literally we I'm sure both of us can

56:31

talk to you for hours about this, and

56:34

you should definitely come back on to really get into

56:37

more depth if you want to talk about in the

56:39

future. But I really thank you for coming on

56:41

and explaining some of the work that you're doing because

56:43

it's really important. And UM, I

56:46

want you to tell our listeners where they can find you

56:48

on Twitter, on Instagram, UM, where they

56:51

can find White Homework so they can go do white

56:53

homework. Thank you so much for having me on.

56:55

UM. I am on Twitter and

56:58

Instagram at my hellwork just

57:01

that's super easy. UM. You can also

57:04

find my work UM at tory

57:06

last dot com or just at story glass kind

57:08

of anywhere. UM that's t O

57:10

R I t O R I yes,

57:13

sorry with an eye. So at my website story last

57:15

dot com. You can go over to white Homework

57:17

dot com if you would like. We am

57:20

using my Patreon from my

57:22

podcast to pay the rent

57:24

for a Family of Color for a year. UM.

57:28

So yeah, it's just been like

57:30

someone who grew up pretty poor, it's been really

57:32

important to me to give back. So

57:35

that's what I decided to use that for. Ye, that's

57:38

it. I'm around tweet me h,

57:41

thanks so much for coming on the show. Um.

57:44

Yeah, but you what you just

57:47

said about because you grew up poor,

57:49

it means a lot of giving back. It's like the same idea

57:51

as like the poorest people in the world right now are using

57:54

their stimulus check to give back to all

57:56

these like donations, whereas

57:58

the richest people are just like floating

58:01

along and getting richer like phases

58:03

and everything. But it's up to us to change

58:05

the world. Man, It's up to us. Thank

58:09

you again. This has been lovely and you

58:11

are lovely and doing really amazing

58:13

work. This has been ethnically ambiguous.

58:15

It's ethnically am a m B on Twitter

58:17

and ethnically ambig a m B i G on

58:20

Instagram. I'm sharene It's sho

58:22

hero on Instagram and shrro hero six six

58:25

six on Twitter, and

58:27

I'm at ana hosting on Twitter. Yeah.

58:29

Um, and until next time, Uh,

58:32

do your homework. Do your homework. Ethnically

58:51

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58:54

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