Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:00
Ethnically Ambiguous is a production of I
0:02
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
0:04
iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
0:06
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
0:08
favorite shows. Hey guys, this is
0:10
Anna and Sharene and we
0:13
wanted to take a second to tell
0:15
you about a live streaming
0:17
event called Homeward Live. This
0:20
pandemic has been really tough on everyone, and
0:22
it has hit the homeless community especially
0:24
hard. Homeward Live is a live
0:26
streaming event to address the homelessness
0:28
crisis every Thursday, starting
0:31
last week on July six and going through
0:33
August thirteen. At six pm Pacific
0:35
and nine pm Eastern Time, you can tune
0:37
in to Facebook Live to watch an amazing actor
0:39
performed the true story of a person who's
0:41
been homeless, followed by a candid conversation
0:44
between the actor and the person who lived the
0:46
story. Actors involved include
0:48
Bradley Whitford from Get Out
0:50
the West Wing, Judy Reyes from
0:53
Scrubs, Claws, and more. If
0:55
you feel inspired, you'll have the option to donate
0:58
to the Midnight Mission, an organization pro aiding
1:00
housing and other services on skid Row. Watch
1:02
Homeward Live Thursdays at six pm
1:05
Pacific, nine pm Eastern at
1:07
Facebook dot com, slash homeword
1:10
l a hey
1:12
Ll. Hello,
1:14
Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode
1:16
of Ethnically. And we
1:20
have a great, great guest
1:22
today. M hmm. She's
1:24
a writer, a researcher. I
1:27
mean, and I would
1:29
say also like a Twitter
1:31
person you should be following. Okay,
1:34
We're making it easy for you. She's also
1:36
a podcaster. Yes, she's a podcaster.
1:39
She's basically the person
1:41
you want to get homework from. We
1:44
are joined by Tory Williams Douglas,
1:46
who's at Tory Glass on Twitter
1:49
or at white Homework. What
1:51
do we talk about with her? We talked about so many
1:53
amazing things. We talked about taking initiative,
1:56
doing your work, providing a place
1:58
for people to do their own homework so they have no excuse
2:00
we're looking at you Whitey's and we just
2:02
talked about her upbringing as a biracial woman. We
2:04
get into really good discussions about racing this in
2:07
this country. And so yeah, I think
2:09
you guys are gonna really like this conversation. Stay
2:11
tuned. Who are we? Where
2:14
are we tough? Who do we
2:16
become? What is it
2:19
to be? What to be?
2:21
Is it there are
2:23
Who are my parents?
2:26
Where are my parents? Why
2:29
are we born? We
2:32
are ethnically
2:35
ambiguous. Hey,
2:40
hey shrine, Hey, that was me
2:42
brings brings in. How
2:45
are you doing? You know? At like clockwork?
2:47
My Sirie turned on every time I
2:49
say hey, sharene my serious always
2:51
comes on, thinking I'm talking to it
2:54
or yeah, every time I
2:56
say Syria, every time I say not
2:59
only to never say my name. So yeah,
3:02
but um, sorry about that, no
3:05
problem. SII is
3:07
wondering how you are doing? Oh there,
3:09
I did it again, sent her my regards.
3:12
Well you did say Sirie that I did. You're right, You're right I did.
3:16
Um. Today we have another
3:18
lovely guest episode. I'm really
3:20
excited to talk to this guest. I admittedly
3:23
saved a bunch of my pleasant
3:25
trees or like getting to know this person for the podcast
3:28
because I want to learn with you guys. I
3:30
heard about her through Twitter. Her work really
3:32
fascinated me and I d
3:35
m her and here she is and I'm really excited
3:37
to talk to her to with all you guys. It's Tori
3:40
William Douglas or or Tori Glass. What
3:42
do you prefer? I should have asked you before we with your record,
3:44
But I mean, everyone on Twitter calls
3:46
me it's Tory Glass, but my name
3:49
is Tory williames cyclists, So okay,
3:51
well it's Tori Tories with us
3:53
today. Yes, yeah,
3:57
because Tori doug Glass,
4:00
Yes that is, and because I couldn't get
4:03
Tory Douglas and it was too long
4:05
for my at on Twitter.
4:08
So I think Tory Glass is great. It
4:11
is. It works really well. Yeah,
4:13
Tory Williams Douglas. I enjoy
4:15
the three the three names. Obviously, I go by
4:17
Sharie Lonnie. You know, it's my full name, so I respect
4:19
the three names still, but Tory Glass is
4:22
a good shortened version of that. So yeah,
4:24
I think. So it's worked out so far,
4:26
and it's a little too late to go back now. I think
4:29
now, is Williams the middle name or is
4:31
it like your parents but you took both last
4:33
names? Oh okay, you guys want
4:35
to get into the dirt. Williams
4:38
is my maiden name, I'm
4:40
the worst. Douglas is my
4:42
married name, but my kid's
4:45
last name is Douglas, so I kept it
4:47
easy piecy Okay, Yeah, I'm just
4:49
I'm always curious because my parents never gave
4:52
me a middle name, so I'm always like very fascinating.
4:54
I'm like, oh, so, so your parents chose
4:56
that, but you know, actually Williams.
4:58
That makes more sense because to be our daughters,
5:01
it's Williams. It's
5:03
a family name. No, but I mean in
5:05
my in my not defense, but like to
5:08
explain myself a little bit, my parents gave
5:10
me my sister's middle names, but usually
5:12
Arabs don't have or like for the most part,
5:15
we don't have middle names. My mom was just trying
5:17
to be like American immigrant
5:19
or like an like an immigrant to America, like I'm gonna
5:21
be cute and give the middle names and
5:24
literally mine, I think I said the on podcast
5:26
before, was like she saw a credit
5:28
in a movie, like someone's first name was
5:30
Lonnie and she was like, I like that,
5:32
and that was my middle name. And it means sky
5:34
in Hawaiian, so sweet
5:37
sky is what my name means. Persian
5:39
and farcia I mean and the Hawaiian
5:42
so that's a fun fact.
5:44
Anyways, um, let's
5:46
talk about Tori. Okay, As I mentioned,
5:49
I am saving all my getting to know use for
5:51
this podcast. I'm going to ask you the basics and get
5:53
to know you along with our audience. But tell
5:56
us Um, where you're from and where
5:58
you're currently at right now? I
6:00
uh was born and raised and
6:03
currently live in Portland, Oregon. So
6:05
I've lived in the Pacific Northwest my whole life,
6:08
basically just Portland and Seattle. Despite
6:11
the dearth of people of color
6:13
in Portland and Seattle's,
6:15
Seattle feels really diverse to me, let's just
6:17
say that. So but yeah, I love
6:20
it here. I love the Pacific Northwest. And we
6:22
have our our Nazis and whatnot, But so
6:25
far I've managed to stay off the radar,
6:28
thank thank goodness. Can we we can swear
6:31
right? Yes? Yes? Okay,
6:34
cool? Yeah, this is where I grew up. I
6:36
was born and raised here, and yeah, from
6:39
kind of a really young age, I actually started
6:41
noting noticing like the racial disparities
6:43
in the city. Um, you
6:46
know, my dad is black and he's
6:48
you know, growing up, he was my absolute favorite person
6:50
in the whole world, and so it really was
6:53
striking to me as a little little kid, how
6:56
many unhoused people I saw
6:58
who looked like my dad. How many people we were clearly going
7:00
through some kind of crisis, who looked like my dad. So
7:02
that was the kind of you know,
7:05
became is now like my career
7:08
talking about like anteriorist education
7:11
and um kind of examining
7:14
data and structural harm
7:16
and systemic causes for things. But in
7:18
Portland it was kind of acute, just
7:21
the disparity, I mean so much so that
7:23
you know, I've been noticed in like elementary school
7:26
that said, like, I still love this town.
7:28
So you know, what are you gonna do? Yeah?
7:31
Yeah. I visited Portland or the Pacific
7:33
Northwestern General for the very first time last
7:35
winter, and I've always felt really drawn to
7:37
it because I'm obsessed with forests, but I
7:40
fell in love with it. It is so beautiful up there,
7:42
especially. I was there like in the late fall,
7:44
like November ish, like early winter, and
7:48
um, I would stay there too if I grew
7:50
up there. It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. Um,
7:54
I think I belonged in a forest in Portland. In
7:56
in Oregon, I think I think I've always
7:59
known that my heart. Um,
8:01
but you mentioned your dad is black, that are
8:03
you by Rachel? Yeah, my mom
8:05
my mom is white. So I'm like a fifth
8:07
generation Oregonian on my mom's side, well,
8:11
her great great grandfather immigrated
8:13
to Oregon from Germany
8:16
in the eighteen eighties. And then my
8:18
dad I grew up in Philadelphia.
8:21
Wow, and what led your father
8:23
to Oregon? My mom?
8:26
How did they meet? He was he didn't
8:28
know that, like, he didn't know that there was anything out here.
8:31
I mean he thought that it was like mostly
8:34
Indian reservations. Yeah,
8:37
he was just like it's the wild West. That's didn't
8:39
know anything about the West coast. So, yeah,
8:43
how did they meet? Your parents? My
8:45
parents met because my
8:48
dad was in the army
8:50
working he was stationed at a NATO
8:53
base in Oslo, Norway, and
8:55
my mom was working at the British embassy
8:57
even though she is not British in
8:59
Oslo. Yeah, well that's
9:01
how they met because they were too like Americans who
9:03
spoke English. Yeah. Wow, it's
9:06
pretty wild. That is wild. That's a great
9:08
that's a good movie story. You're drawn
9:11
together. That's how it goes. Like my parents both
9:13
came from Iran and met in Utah because they were like,
9:15
oh, you're Iranian, I'm Iranan. Let's
9:17
hang out. That's the way it goes. You
9:20
got to find your people. I know, Utah.
9:22
It's very random, but that was it
9:24
has to be Utah because they had to have seen each
9:26
other and be like there there's a Persian. Yeah,
9:29
they're like, okay, everyone else's Mormon.
9:32
And they met they met at a Mormon church
9:34
at a wedding, so it's like it really was like
9:36
all white people and them being like, oh, you happen
9:38
to just casually know this person. I do too,
9:41
Let's hang out because we're both Persian and
9:44
everyone else's Mormon. I guess. I
9:46
imagine at the time they must have like they must
9:48
have had like one white friend or something that was like,
9:50
I know someone that's perfect for you, and just
9:52
like the only other person they knew. Probably yeah,
9:55
well it was I think at the time in the seventies,
9:57
University of Utah let in a lot of Iranian
10:00
students previous, previous
10:02
to the revolution because everyone
10:05
was just applying in Utah was just like yeah,
10:07
come on down. I guess, so a
10:09
lot of Persians in Utah.
10:12
So I love that your your parents origin
10:14
story, like meeting anyway, it was, It's really
10:16
it always fascinates me. I really like it. But
10:18
that's crazy. They met, and they met in Norway and they moved
10:21
back together to the States. Yes,
10:24
yeah, they did. They you know, traveled
10:26
around Europe for a little
10:28
while after my dad was done with Um,
10:31
I was I gonna see his army contract after
10:34
he was done with his tour. It's
10:36
not really a tour if you're like just in a bunker
10:38
in a mountain side and where why is it? But
10:41
so, yeah, they like traveled around Europe
10:43
and drove Lace. Um.
10:47
Can I ask if they're still together because that sounds where they
10:49
are? Okay? I like that. That sounds
10:51
like they really fell in love. Yeah, this is
10:54
like forty two years ago. Wow. Wow,
10:57
it's wild. That is wild has
11:00
like mid seventies. That's
11:02
crazy. And my parents just celebrated their anniversary
11:05
earlier this month, And I
11:07
just can't really grasp wrap my head around someone
11:09
being with the same person for
11:11
so long. That is a commitment. That's
11:14
someone you really grow with, right, I
11:16
don't know. I don't think I'm wired like
11:18
that to be neither me either. Um
11:23
okay, So your parents moved to Portland
11:26
when you were growing up. Were there are a lot of kids
11:28
that looked like you? What was your experience
11:30
like growing up by racial in Portland when
11:33
you were a kid? Honestly,
11:35
like most most of the kids
11:38
that I met, so, I was homeschooled,
11:40
which is very normal for Portland, but
11:42
very weird for like a black kid in
11:45
Portland's um so,
11:47
but like most of the you know, most of the kids
11:49
that I met just around tended
11:52
to think that I was Mexican, which
11:54
I was always you know, I
11:56
mean, I do have like Mexican
11:58
heritage, so I was fine with that. I always
12:00
thought that was kind of cool. Um, But it
12:03
was always only the black kids who ever knew that I was
12:05
next so um
12:07
because there were just a lot more Latin
12:09
X people in Portland when
12:12
I was younger, and just you know, it
12:14
wasn't it wasn't a super diverse place.
12:17
Obviously. Oregon has a huge, long,
12:20
storied, very undocumented
12:22
history with racism being part
12:24
of like being the law here. So
12:27
as I got a little bit older, like Junior High,
12:29
we started getting some like black neighbors.
12:32
So you could definitely see that the
12:34
city was getting more diverse. From
12:36
my perspective, that makes sense. Yeah,
12:38
I feel like based on what I understand
12:41
about Oregon, is that now
12:44
correct me if I'm wrong KKK
12:47
was formed up there? Is that right? Or
12:49
if I um
12:51
so, the clan wasn't formed
12:53
here, but it was like one of it was like one of the biggest
12:56
chapters in the country, or it may have been
12:58
the the biggest. Yeah, I always
13:00
I have a few friends who live in Oregon, Eugene
13:03
specifically, and I have friends in Seattle who
13:05
travel around Oregon a lot, and I
13:08
always I hear it's like kind of,
13:10
you know, a lighter place, if
13:12
you will. But um,
13:15
my own experience with it, maybe because I've been to Portland
13:17
a lot, it feels more diverse, but
13:19
I think it is. It is it mostly just kind
13:21
of like in the bigger cities you would
13:24
find more diverse demographics
13:26
and then kind of like out in the countryside or
13:28
you know, I don't know exactly, maybe the forest. I don't
13:30
fully know the environment, is
13:33
it less like diverse? I
13:36
mean, I mean, of course, you tell
13:38
me you live there. Oregan is pretty
13:40
wild. Like Portland is definitely
13:43
like the blue bubble that everyone talks
13:45
about, right, Um, but because
13:47
of the population breakdown,
13:50
like Portland controls like the politics
13:53
of the entire state. So yeah,
13:55
I mean Portland is more diverse
13:57
than Utah. I
14:00
guess that's a good thing then if it controls the
14:02
politics and it's a kind of a
14:04
liberal hub, right Yeah,
14:07
But I mean the rest of the state kind of resents
14:09
us, right, that's yeah,
14:12
makes sense, Like you know, I
14:14
would, I would, you know, like like Atlanta
14:16
is a good example that being reversed. It's like I
14:18
would resent that like everybody outside
14:20
of my city controlling everything in the state.
14:23
But yeah, so Oregon
14:25
is like, it's just it's just a really fascinating place
14:27
because there was some acts that was like written
14:31
to move Native
14:33
people off of like reservations so
14:35
they could close them down. So there was this this incentive
14:38
program that was actually really gross and exploitative,
14:40
and so there were a lot of Native people who
14:43
came here under coercion. I
14:46
guess is I mean that's the only way
14:48
that I can really expelled here essentially
14:50
essentially, Yeah, yeah, that they were, you know,
14:52
because it was like this preparative therapy
14:55
essentially for Native people. Were like we want
14:58
you to be white, yeah, or
15:00
to perform whiteness. Right, So
15:03
there are a lot of Indigenous people here,
15:05
and then yeah, there's really big, kind
15:08
of vibrant Latino community here, I
15:10
think in large part because Oregon is mostly
15:12
an agricultural state, right, So there's
15:14
a lot of people who are
15:17
here who are undocumented because you
15:20
know, their parents or families came here to
15:22
just try to make a living. And then yeah,
15:24
like I think Portland is seven
15:27
percent black and Oregon is like two percent
15:29
or less than two percent black. So well
15:32
yeah, mm hmm. Well so
15:35
growing up because you your work now
15:37
is it deals with race
15:40
and the implications of racism and working
15:42
to combat it and educating anti racism.
15:45
When you were in high school, when you went to when
15:47
you studied after that, where you did
15:49
you know this is what you wanted to do or like what were
15:51
you interested in when you were a teenager? Um?
15:54
I mean I always wanted to
15:57
do education of some sort.
16:00
I didn't want to be like a teacher necessarily,
16:03
but I always knew that I've always loved
16:05
to write, So I I always
16:07
kind of wanted to do some kind of education.
16:10
I just sort of it just sort of happened
16:12
that, like I
16:15
was able to make this transition.
16:17
But yeah, it wasn't it wasn't
16:19
my intent from the jump, Like I didn't
16:22
necessarily see myself doing doing this
16:24
work. What did you see yourself
16:26
doing? Like what were your passions? Oh,
16:29
okay, let's be here. So I
16:32
initially, like kind
16:34
of right out of high school, I
16:36
went to Bible College, and
16:39
I was just like taking business classes, like I
16:41
didn't really I didn't really know what I wanted to do, right,
16:43
So it's like this kind of expensive
16:45
for not really having any idea where
16:48
I want to go with it. So um
16:50
yeah. I was just like, Okay, I'll come back to
16:53
this when I know what I want to do. And I just like when
16:55
I got a job somewhere where
16:57
did I get a job? I don't even remember, um
17:00
u. So I kind of like bounced around for a while
17:02
and then wound up at wound about a neuroscience
17:04
lab, which is
17:07
yeah, talk about failing up
17:09
rightly, that's reserved for white guy,
17:13
um yeah. And it was really incredible.
17:15
So I got to work at
17:18
this neuroscience lab here in town and
17:21
work for several black neuroscientists
17:24
in Portland and a
17:26
lot of people in the lab or doing
17:29
research on race and bias
17:31
and the way that trauma affects
17:34
genetics. And it
17:37
was a really incredible experience
17:39
to be able to work there. And then I kind
17:41
of fell into doing anti
17:43
racism work because at all of these white
17:45
people on Twitter asking me what they were supposed to do about
17:48
racism. Of course,
17:50
of course, Yeah, what
17:53
to do about racism? It's like the
17:56
what is it that? What what to do about love? Is
17:58
that? I just make that up? Was that Shakespeare? I
18:01
don't know much ado about nothing to do about
18:03
nothing. I don't know why that completely about
18:06
racism? The classic play
18:09
that. But
18:12
that's really interesting that you worked at a neuroscience
18:14
lab and they were studying that stuff. That must have been so fascinating.
18:17
I do think there's an element of
18:20
generational trauma that has
18:22
passed down. I
18:24
feel like if I were you, that also would have sparked my interest
18:27
in studying that as well. After
18:29
that happened, Like did you find yourself becoming an
18:31
educator because people were asking you and then you established
18:34
that role for yourself? How did you make
18:36
it your own thing? So I'm a
18:38
very avid tweeter and
18:41
I'm really responsive right less
18:44
so now because actually more people
18:46
calling me, I mean it worked for me? Oh
18:49
yeah true? Um
18:51
so yeah,
18:54
I was like writing about anti racism
18:56
and just kind of like tweeting
18:58
it out into the reverse and kind
19:01
of inadvertently wound up
19:03
with the people following me and
19:06
being asked a lot of questions and
19:09
essentially I created
19:12
white homework because it was just a way to
19:14
streamline like, Okay, I don't
19:16
know, like, as you're asking me, as a white
19:18
person that I've never met, never talked to you before, what
19:20
you specifically are supposed to do arracism, And
19:22
I'm like, I don't know, because I don't know how much privilege you
19:24
have, Like I don't know how much socio economic privilege you have.
19:26
I don't know how much access you have. I don't know how much
19:28
margin you have in your life, like if you
19:30
you know, if you're able or disabled,
19:33
like you know, I don't know those things. So you
19:35
have to figure that out on your own and then go support
19:37
the work that's being done in your community already because
19:40
you are not qualified to go and like reinvent the
19:42
wheel here. Um. So
19:44
yeah, that was sort of that was sort of how it happened. Was
19:46
it was just people were asking me, and I was like, well, I
19:48
mean, as I'll turn this into a thing because
19:52
there's clearly a need for it. And
19:55
I also think that people like the
19:57
accessibility part, Like I think
20:00
that they like being able to communicate with me because I'm pretty
20:02
communicative still on I
20:04
G and Twitter. If I have
20:07
the time and the energy like I'll totally answer people's
20:09
questions about stuff, but yeah, it was
20:11
really white homework was really just like streamline
20:14
that process that I could save myself the
20:16
time of having to go through and like ask people like
20:18
all these questions and like, Okay, how do you
20:20
how do you feel about this? Like how many
20:22
people do you know in your community? Like right?
20:25
So and realizing
20:27
that not I mean like again, like not all
20:29
white people know the same types of
20:31
people, right, Like I one time I tweeted
20:34
out like a pole and I just
20:36
I was just like, okay, if you're right, do
20:38
you know someone who's a police officer? And I thought
20:41
that like eight percent of people would
20:43
say, oh, yeah, for sure, like someone in my family's
20:45
a cop or like you know my neighbor or
20:47
whatever. It was like it was almost the opposite
20:49
was like of people so
20:51
that they personally knew a cop. And I was like, oh,
20:53
this is very surprising, Like and
20:57
you know my assumptions again we're
20:59
like, oh, this is correct least for people that follow
21:01
me. Um so, I like this is
21:03
probably like me saying hey, go sit down
21:05
with that copy you know, probably isn't going to be effective
21:07
messaging for most of the people say, because apparently
21:09
most of them don't actually know any police officers,
21:12
so it's been a learning curve. But I just I
21:14
did very much like make it up on my own. I
21:17
mean, I really respect that, and I
21:19
respect that you use your time in that way because
21:22
as people of color, and as
21:24
women also women
21:26
of color, I think we're we are
21:28
forced into both an educator
21:30
role and add an activist role
21:33
without us even meaning to just by existing,
21:35
Like I think we exist and people expect
21:37
us to just be educators and activists
21:40
because we exist in a world that is
21:42
marginalized, marginalizes us. But
21:45
I'm glad that you kind of use
21:47
that to your advantage in your life. Well, if I'm
21:49
going to do this, I'm going to I'm going to do it my way.
21:52
I'm going to do it. Well yeah,
21:55
yes, exactly. You should get paid. That's
21:57
what I always want to say. It's like, if you're gonna be asking your
22:00
friends, like how do I help, it's like
22:02
venmo them because you're making
22:04
them do the work for you, Like, come on, like
22:07
at least have some sense to realize, like
22:09
you can you don't, you
22:11
know, as someone because we started a podcast, we
22:13
get tweeted out a lot. I get tweeted at things,
22:16
and I have much less
22:18
patience, I would say for certain
22:20
things because I have never
22:23
felt comfortable like asking
22:25
questions, because I always you know, I've
22:28
always you know, it took a long time for me to find my
22:30
voice. So like everything I did,
22:32
I was like, you gotta figure it out yourself. You gotta figure out yourself.
22:34
No one's here to help you. You were just like this little
22:37
Ranian girl that like it's too scared to speak
22:39
up. So my big thing is like just google
22:41
it. Like I do everything by googling
22:43
it. I watch YouTube videos if I need
22:45
to learn stuff, Like I'm a simple
22:48
woman who is like I don't. I just
22:50
don't know, so I'll just go google it. And I feel
22:52
like a lot of people be like, well, Anna, how do I
22:54
fix this problem I have with my racist
22:57
like family. Like it's like all this stuff where I'm
22:59
like, well, some problem you can't fix, but
23:02
I don't know how. I don't know your life. I don't know how to
23:04
fix it for you. You just have to like
23:06
go and read and get therapy
23:08
if you need it, Like there's so many
23:10
outlets. But then you know, you start a podcast, and
23:12
everyone's like, hey, you you answer the
23:15
questions, and and I am like, and
23:17
then you put under this lamb. Not if we
23:19
say anything wrong or anything. We're just like
23:21
scrutinized in a way, or the whole premise
23:23
of our podcast with that were like relatable. We don't
23:26
know anything at all. Of a sudden,
23:28
we're like we have to know everything. Like I'm
23:30
reading the same articles you're reading yet
23:33
to learn. I'm just like regurgitating it because
23:35
I read it and I have a podcast. But it's like you
23:37
can also still go read that versus
23:40
having me tweet an
23:42
explanation back at you. My
23:44
gosh, yes, they want like they want want
23:46
to be spoon fed. Yeah, Okay,
23:49
we're gonna say a quick commercial break. We'll right back. I want
23:51
to talk more about white homework. Don't go anywhere,
24:02
and we're back with Tori before
24:05
the break, and I brought up a really good point
24:08
about how something that
24:10
really really bothers me is this
24:12
lack of initiative that certain white people
24:14
have. Because the lack of initiative
24:16
is what really gets me is just like a lot of
24:18
questions that we get asked, a lot of questions that part of the
24:20
black people probably get asked are things that you can
24:23
google? Are things that you should ask your white
24:25
friends, not people of color? Um,
24:27
And that lack of initiative is something that I really
24:30
that really grinds my gears because it's right
24:32
that term. But I can't do anything else. But because
24:35
you're right, they do want everything spoon fed
24:37
to them. But I think with white homework,
24:39
what you've done is they
24:41
have no excuse not to educate themselves.
24:43
Now you know what I mean. There's no excuse because
24:46
if they do want to learn, there's a thing right
24:48
in front of them, but they can listen to and
24:50
interact with. UM. So let's talk
24:52
about that. Let's talk about what white homework is
24:55
and just tell a listeners like, what
24:57
how you created it? We
25:00
kind of got the orange story a little bit, but I want to go more in
25:02
depth. Yeah.
25:04
Wait, homework essentially came about because
25:07
I was talking to one
25:09
of my Twitter friends and
25:13
she's been in recovery for like twenty
25:15
five years. I think, sorry,
25:17
Gretchen if I got that wrong. UM, And
25:20
uh, she paying
25:22
me one day and she was like, I just had a thought, like
25:24
I feel like white people respond
25:27
to being called on
25:30
white privilege. The way that
25:32
I responded when someone called me out on
25:35
drinking, I was like, oh
25:39
damn, Like yeah, because it's like you get really
25:41
defensive, right, you have this kind of immediate
25:44
physiological reaction to
25:46
what the person is saying. And so
25:49
I really I was like, Oh, this is so fascinating.
25:51
And then essentially and
25:53
this is you know I've been doing. I've been writing
25:55
and tweeting and whatever,
25:59
and I was like,
26:01
Oh, this is really interesting. And then at
26:04
some point, you know, it's kind
26:07
of during the same same time, it was like the
26:09
same couple of weeks, I realized
26:11
because I'm trying to think of a name for this
26:14
educational resource that I wanted to create,
26:18
and yeah, I was like, oh, like, I want
26:20
to give white people who want to do the
26:22
work homework so
26:24
that I so that they stopped asking me to do their
26:26
homework for them. Um, that's
26:28
essentially what it is. It's like you're in school
26:31
and you're like, can you do this hope, can you do this thing for me?
26:33
Can you do for me? Right? Exactly,
26:36
And initially, like my thought was
26:38
kind of okay with the name white
26:40
homework, like I'm only going to get
26:42
like very specific people who were interested
26:44
in this. Right, I'm not going to get
26:46
the people who refused
26:50
to be called white, right,
26:52
and I'm not going to get the people who refused
26:55
to do the work. And so I'm automatically
26:57
like precluding these people from
27:00
this resource so they don't have to filter
27:02
through all that. You just like this name
27:04
tells people what it is and also like
27:07
pushes away anyone who doesn't actually
27:09
want to show up right and actually
27:11
like learn. Um
27:14
So I created these little my homework
27:17
lessons and I just posted them up
27:19
on my website, um and I put them
27:21
on my Patreon as well, and I was like, hey,
27:23
okay, here's here's your thing. Here's what you
27:25
do. Go and find out
27:27
like these ten to twenty
27:31
things about your community regarding
27:33
indigenous people, if you're if you
27:35
live on stolen land, regarding like mass incarceration,
27:38
finding out like who owns the prisons, who built
27:40
the prisons in the state where you live, if
27:42
your business or your industry
27:45
reflects the diversity of your
27:47
city or state. Like Okay,
27:50
so you go whatever it is, Like, you go, you do
27:52
the work, you get the information, and then put
27:54
together a list of prompts at the ends.
27:57
It's like you feel that all these little questions
27:59
that are pretty like most of them are something
28:01
you know you can just go and google. But
28:03
then I tell people to go and have conversations
28:06
with the information that they find out right,
28:09
so like I have a white homework
28:11
resource. It's anti racism in the workplace.
28:14
So it's literally like
28:16
the prompts are going and having conversations
28:19
with like management or hr
28:22
right and saying, Okay, what is the process
28:24
here? If somebody comes in and says, hey,
28:26
this situation happened, it was racist, I'm not
28:28
okay with this, Like what are you going to do? Like really,
28:31
like how are you going to respond? Are you gonna just dismiss
28:33
it? Is it like oh if there was a white person
28:36
there, you're going to take that seriously? Like what
28:38
what exactly? Like how is this gonna shake out?
28:40
And just getting people to really drilled down
28:43
on the specifics of like where
28:45
they live and work and asking
28:48
asking questions of people who have you
28:50
know, power or authority or privilege or whatever
28:52
the case maybe and then finding ways
28:55
to essentially serve
28:58
people who are marginalized is
29:00
in their own communities by
29:03
reaching out to activists
29:05
and people that are already doing the work and people that
29:07
are already out there and passionate
29:10
about it. And then I also have a podcast
29:12
called by Homework, and I
29:14
don't know, I think it's pretty cool. So
29:18
we just talk about like race, racism,
29:21
um, anti racism, and
29:23
restorative justice because I think that one thing
29:25
that like within the framework
29:28
of like Western imperialism
29:30
and white supremacy, like there's no imagination
29:33
for like what another
29:35
system could even look like, right, Like
29:37
I think that I think white supremacy really hampers
29:41
like any kind of imaginative growth
29:43
or exploration, right And you know you have I
29:46
have had many conversations with people who
29:48
are like, well, capitalism is the best we can
29:50
do. It's like, okay,
29:52
so you believe that human ingenuity
29:55
is limitless except when it comes to
29:58
money, money and resources,
30:01
Like that's really what you're telling me you believe right
30:03
now? Is that it's like I mean, and to me, that's like saying,
30:05
well, chemotherapy is the best we can do. Guess
30:07
guess we solve cancer? Like what like
30:10
now, come on, like we can do better
30:12
than this. It just takes a lot of fucking work, and
30:14
you have to be willing to do that work and invest
30:16
in doing the work. Um.
30:19
So yeah, I've
30:21
kind of using
30:24
this tool for people to kind of
30:26
um dig in and and
30:28
do the work on their own and um
30:30
with my podcast, I also do try to
30:32
have like a little bit of fun with it because racism
30:36
one is sucking, exhausting, it's exhausting
30:38
to talk about. So it's nice to be able to
30:41
like joke around and make fun. And
30:43
also racists aren't very smart people,
30:45
so it's pretty easy to make fun of them. Um,
30:48
generally speaking, Yeah, there are there are a few
30:50
really intelligent racism. I won't deny that. Um,
30:54
But um,
30:56
I wanted to be a place where people could just like sit down,
30:58
listen, learn, and so have it not be
31:01
like this very academic. It's not a lecture.
31:03
It's a conversation, yes, exactly.
31:05
I wanted to be accessible to people and
31:07
hopefully to make people laugh because I feel like that
31:10
helps people remember ship rights.
31:12
Why yourself you tend to remember where
31:14
you were, like what you were supposed
31:16
to, what I DIA is we're supposed to. Yeah,
31:19
I agree with that. Yeah, I feel like that's
31:21
what we came into our podcast with the idea
31:23
of trying to make the material
31:25
when we're discussing digestible and
31:28
not feel like a lecture and
31:30
it's really just a conversation. And
31:33
I do really appreciate that you encourage
31:35
white people with white
31:38
homework had these uncomfortable conversations
31:40
with other white people, because it's
31:42
really exhausting as a black person,
31:44
as a person of color to be your own advocate
31:47
at all times, because you need people
31:49
that can reason with white
31:51
people to help
31:53
to help the marginalize. You can't just keep
31:55
fighting on your own. It's like we're seeing right now
31:58
in the entertainment industry a lot of people talking
32:00
about the lack of representation, whether
32:02
it's in the writer's rooms or with voice
32:05
acting or whatever. And those decisions
32:07
happen because you don't have more than one
32:09
person of color in the room sometimes and so
32:12
that person is not going to stand up because they're
32:15
afraid of losing their job or they're like, if
32:17
there is more than one person at the minimum,
32:19
you would have a support system, and you can't
32:21
have that if white people don't have
32:23
conversation with each other and try to work
32:25
on the problem themselves. Because that's a that's
32:28
a true ally. There's a lot of per formative
32:31
ally ship. We've around right now. But
32:33
a true ally ship is someone that actually
32:35
does the work, and so I really appreciate you
32:37
for encouraging that. Yeah,
32:40
I am the type of person who I struggle
32:42
to take in information if it's like very
32:44
dry, which is again what
32:46
you're saying why we started this podcast,
32:48
because I mean, like a lot of
32:50
the info I get is
32:53
from Twitter. Like I
32:55
I have that sort of an attention span that
32:57
one I it's hard for me to read
33:00
books because I'm a little like dyslexic,
33:02
where like i can't read certain
33:04
like intellectually based like
33:06
texts where I I will start a sentence
33:08
and I'll get lost halfway through the sentence and I'll
33:11
be like, wait, like what are they trying to say? And it's
33:13
the most normal thing to be, like, I just I don't
33:16
have the brain to take in these sorts of things, which
33:18
is why I really like Twitter, and that's why I
33:20
like go out of my way to follow people
33:22
I think are true voices
33:25
of our generations in the sense like they're
33:27
like black men, black women, any
33:30
sort of person of color that I feel like is saying something worth
33:32
my time, because that's the way I can take it
33:34
in. And everyone's different. So it's like you
33:36
don't have to be someone like reading these books,
33:38
Like you've got to find your own way to like
33:41
take it in and so you know if
33:43
it's going to you know, your
33:46
white homework and doing it that way, or
33:48
like, you know, any sort of like just
33:50
I always say this, Google Black
33:52
voices to follow on Twitter, Like I literally
33:55
did that because I was like, all these goddamn
33:57
comedians I'm following are still making jokes, and
33:59
I feel I'm lost, and I don't
34:01
care about these jokes. I want to know what
34:04
people are saying about what's going on, like
34:06
real thoughts that matter, um,
34:08
that can help me digest and
34:11
like feel what
34:13
a black person feels. Like I
34:15
I have the privilege of being a light skin
34:18
Middle Eastern woman, Like, yeah,
34:20
I have my own issues, but like I get to
34:22
walk through this goddamn world and
34:24
honestly, no one really says anything to me, Like I've
34:27
never really I've had some issues with the cops, but that's
34:29
my own problem, being like fucked up, But like
34:32
I don't ever really have to deal with any sort of like
34:34
issues. You know, my life is easy.
34:36
So I wanted these perspectives
34:39
and I had to go find it the way I did. And also
34:41
a big thing for me is like I like fiction,
34:43
so historical fiction is like how I learn
34:46
about certain eras, Like I have to
34:48
read like Tony Morrison books to be
34:50
like, okay, you know, it's a
34:52
story. That's how I take it in. That's
34:54
how I learned because it's like, yes, in in
34:57
school, I learned about slavery, civil
34:59
rights, Well what the funk happened in between?
35:02
Like I don't know anything that happened in between. No
35:04
one told me. I don't know about the Tulsa like
35:06
them literally burns Black
35:08
Wall Street. I don't know about that because they don't tell
35:10
you anything. And I had to be like, Okay, well
35:12
I'm gonna go read historical fiction so
35:14
I can like learn without me starting
35:17
to have like a panic attack that I'm too dumb to understand
35:19
things. And yeah, I mean that's
35:21
kind of why I appreciate. I really appreciate what you're
35:23
doing, because people like me need stuff
35:26
like that. We just I can't just go read an article.
35:28
I'll like close my mind and don't know what's
35:30
going on. But I think that's a
35:32
really good point. And I talked about this with my sisters
35:35
the other day, Like we didn't
35:37
learn about the Tulsa massacre. Like if you're not
35:39
if you're not black and your
35:42
parents aren't, Like if
35:44
you're not exposed to black history,
35:47
you're are. Our white education system here
35:50
missed out on everything, Like we didn't learn
35:52
ship. Most people didn't even
35:54
hear about June teenth until this year, Like
35:56
they didn't know what that was. Um, they
35:59
all say that Anna episode,
36:03
But I'm telling you and I talked about this and then I
36:05
don't know what when a couple episodes
36:07
ago. But by time you guys hear this. But a lot
36:09
of people they learned about the Tulson massacre
36:12
in the first episode of Watchman, the HBO
36:14
show, Like that's wild to me. And
36:17
I won't pretend that you what that was
36:19
until very recently because I'm trying to educate
36:21
myself too. But it is our responsibility
36:24
to educate ourselves because
36:27
we didn't have a good education system, Like
36:29
we can't be satisfied with what we were taught because
36:31
we weren't taught the right things and we weren't
36:33
taught enough. Um,
36:35
and even just watching documentaries about the Black Panthers
36:38
and about all these things that like literally
36:40
growing up in public high school, we were just taught
36:42
that like Malcolm X was the violent
36:45
black guy, Martin Luther King was the was
36:47
the peaceful one. They both thought shot
36:49
Boo who and the story Black
36:52
Panthers had guns for we're violent
36:54
they were, And that's it. Like it was the most
36:56
like disrespectful
36:58
way to talk about black people in
37:00
history. And so I do think it's our responsibility
37:03
to educate ourselves to to watch even
37:05
if if you absorb like like and I was
37:07
saying, you find the ways that you absorb material
37:09
best if it's movies and television.
37:11
You watch documentaries, you watch movies about
37:13
Malcolm X. The Denzil Washington
37:16
movie with Malcolm X honestly great.
37:18
It's it's it's like a very good representation.
37:20
It's autobiography from what I've read of
37:23
like people that have seen and read both
37:25
um, and I think, yeah,
37:28
to go back to what you're doing, People
37:30
that really want to be a good ally will take
37:32
initiative and educate themselves. And
37:35
um, I think performative
37:37
allyship is really easy, especially with social
37:40
media being like in all of our faces right now.
37:42
But to be an actual ally, you have to do
37:44
the work and you have to know who people are,
37:46
you have to know who Fred Hampton is,
37:48
and you have to know who all these people are that are essential
37:50
and black culture and essential and black history.
37:53
I was just talking about this with my my sister's the
37:55
other day. It was like, I guarantee
37:58
you most people that listen to most white
38:00
dudes that love Tupac, I have no idea
38:02
his mom was a black panther, Like that's essential
38:05
to his fucking life and his work
38:07
and his like core being why
38:09
he did what he did because his mom was revolutionary
38:12
and he became one too. People
38:14
don't know that. I don't know. I
38:16
don't know. Sorry, I'm getting heated. No,
38:21
it's true. It's like there's um,
38:24
I mean, I kind of kind of imagine like
38:26
American history as just being like
38:28
this tapestry of the flag and
38:31
someone just went through and pulled like all the
38:33
blue strings out and all the red strings
38:35
out, and it's just like this white kind of mass
38:37
and you can't really see anything Like That's
38:39
how I imagine American history is sort of taught,
38:41
is like you're taking all the color out and we're just gonna tell the whitest
38:43
part of the story. And yeah, sweet Okay,
38:46
cool, that's it. We're done. Because
38:48
yeah, I mean the thing is, it's like it doesn't
38:50
it doesn't serve the
38:52
people in power. Right, let's be honest
38:55
to tell the whole story, so we
38:57
don't write the American and
38:59
they're off. If it were told like
39:02
in a complete way is
39:04
pretty astounding, right, like it, I don't
39:07
think that it takes away from um,
39:10
I don't think that it takes away from like just
39:14
the wildness of America
39:16
existing at all. Right, to tell
39:18
the entire story. It just the
39:20
only thing that that does like erasist
39:23
people who were essential to making
39:27
this country what it is. But you
39:29
know, the thing that I constantly harp on with white
39:31
people's like we have to be able to deal with things
39:33
as they are, not as we wish they were,
39:35
as we want them to be. So that what
39:37
I mean by that is just like you have to have all
39:39
of the information, right, I mean for
39:42
me, when I first kind of started re educating
39:44
myself essentially, UM,
39:47
I started like when I would listen
39:49
to NPR or what I would
39:51
like listen this is kind of before podcast,
39:53
but listening to like the news or like
39:56
History Channel or whatever I would I start using
39:59
like emancipation is
40:01
like a reference point, right,
40:03
so if something was happening before was
40:06
like okay, slavery like in
40:09
the South, you know, if you're far enough back,
40:11
you know, Vermont was the only colony that was
40:13
admitted into the Union that had already abolished
40:16
slavery. And then after that point,
40:18
right then you have then there's
40:20
no slavery. But then you have like Jim
40:22
Crow. Once you get up to like five
40:26
ish sixty five or sixty eight, that's when you have like civil
40:28
rights legislation. And you
40:30
know, because people really to try to make it sound like
40:33
this it was ancient
40:35
history. And it's like my dad had to use
40:37
the fucking colored water fountain as a kid.
40:40
Like it's not ancient history, right, but
40:43
you know that as a as a black woman, right,
40:45
but like right when my dad was
40:47
growing up, like he had to use the colored toilet
40:49
and the colored entrance. It's
40:52
not it's not ancient history. But
40:55
yeah, I mean I still definitely had like educate
40:57
myself more, right because
40:59
I you know, even being fascinated
41:02
by Black American history,
41:05
I still wasn't taught enough.
41:09
I mean I was hardly taught any right, but
41:12
it was it was always something it was interesting to me, that was
41:14
fascinating to me, and so, um,
41:16
I kind of sought it out on my own. But
41:19
yeah, I mean, we don't. But that's
41:21
the thing we take initiative people
41:25
to do their own work again
41:29
work. And I have a question for you, but I'm gonna
41:31
ask you. We're gonna take a quick commercial break. We'll be
41:33
right back. All
41:43
right, we are back with
41:46
Tory Willams Douglas. Okay, So I'm
41:48
curious, like how much did your father
41:50
talk to you about kind of like black history
41:53
or your own experience as a
41:55
biracial woman or girl
41:57
at the time growing up in Portland, Like, did
41:59
you you any talks like hey, you know, things
42:02
might be weird, people might treat you differently or anything
42:04
like that. So it
42:06
was really interesting because like in the
42:08
eighties, like that was like the
42:11
height of integration, right,
42:13
and it was like the height of black
42:15
home ownership, and things
42:17
really did look like they were trending positively,
42:20
right. Um, kind of kind of
42:22
until Reagan got into office and started like undoing
42:25
things like like loosening
42:27
all of the screws and like we're gonna
42:29
let this just sort of sink down here, but not
42:32
super fast that people don't really notice. And
42:34
I think that in my dad's
42:36
in my dad's mind, he was like, Okay, if if
42:39
you just keep your head down and work really hard,
42:41
like it'll it'll shake out, right, not
42:44
really realizing what was happening, because I don't
42:46
think many I mean, I'm sure that
42:48
some people did, but I don't think many people really realized
42:50
what was happening, that America was becoming
42:53
um experience,
42:55
like I was going to kind of do this pendulum swaying
42:57
right of experiencing more and more and more inequality
42:59
and more and more and more segregation,
43:02
right, like self segregation as opposed
43:04
to legal segregation. So
43:06
I think that like in his mind, because
43:09
he had seen that we'd come like
43:11
so far right in fifteen
43:14
twenty years, I think that his thought was like,
43:16
Okay, if we just like keep our heads heads
43:18
down and like keep pushing, it'll
43:20
shake out for us at the end. I mean, he definitely
43:23
he absolutely experienced discrimination,
43:26
but I think that, you
43:28
know, he felt like the best way
43:31
to deal with that, to engage
43:33
with that was just to not make a stink
43:35
about it, right, which I feel like it's
43:37
very valid and I feel like a lot of. I feel like a lot of
43:39
people like his his age,
43:42
a lot of black Americans felt very similarly,
43:44
like if we just kind of keep our heads down,
43:47
like don't make a stink, like maybe we can
43:49
actually get to I don't know, parity
43:51
or equality. And
43:54
you know, again like not really realizing
43:56
that, you know, we started kind of taking the wheels
43:58
off the bus sort of once once Reagan
44:00
got into office, right, yeah,
44:04
I think, um, under
44:06
the guise of slavery
44:08
being over and progressiveness, we
44:11
took a different kind of turn in the country.
44:13
And that's what is really sinister
44:15
about the United States is that everything
44:19
that you think is just
44:22
whether it's the justice system or prisons
44:24
or anything like, it's just a different
44:26
kind of slavery. It's a different kind of racism.
44:29
Um. Again, I encourage you all, if you haven't seen
44:31
the movie, to watch that movie,
44:34
um, to understand why slavery
44:36
kind of just transformed into a different kind of
44:38
slavery. But I do have a question for you.
44:40
Do you know what year your parents were married? Um?
44:43
Yeah, So my parents got married in Because
44:48
I realize if your dad,
44:50
I mean, your dad's story is probably really
44:54
I mean, it's really interesting to me because not only did he
44:56
use colored found or
44:58
like different like ountains
45:00
for like black people and white people. But we
45:02
I don't know if I ever mentioned this in the podcast, but Loving
45:04
Day a couple a couple of weeks ago
45:07
by a time this comes out, Loving Day was, um,
45:09
it's a it's a it's on June twelve, and
45:11
it's um commemorating the
45:14
Supreme Court decision of Loving, the
45:16
Supreme Court case of Loving versus Virginia.
45:19
And it was basically commemorating by
45:22
like a biracial marriage like a like it's
45:24
like it was, Um, I believe it was a black woman and
45:26
a white man. They changed
45:28
the world forever. And that was in nineteen sixty seven.
45:30
And so your father probably grew up with
45:33
that being I mean, he did grow up with that being legal.
45:36
That's insane to me. That's that's insane.
45:38
Absolutely it's and
45:40
then he ended up like kind
45:42
of because because of that law, he was able
45:44
to marry your mom.
45:47
That's just and that's in recent history,
45:49
and people don't really realize that. Like I didn't
45:51
learn about Loving Day until this year. I'm not gonna pretend
45:53
to you about it until it happened on June twelfth,
45:56
but I'm never gonna forget it now. Yeah,
45:59
And I don't know, it's just it's Um.
46:02
I think I think your dad must
46:04
have had like I can only imagine what
46:06
was how he experienced it, I guess,
46:09
And I don't know. I
46:11
think it just goes back to thefortance of educating
46:13
yourself and um,
46:15
realizing that people have had different experiences than
46:18
you. And I think
46:20
like the mentality of
46:22
like just keep your head down and do the work is
46:24
a mentality that a lot of marginalized people
46:27
feel. Um. I know, and has talked
46:29
about it with like how we were raised
46:31
and stuff, um, because
46:33
that's what you think you're supposed to do. Um. Meanwhile,
46:36
white people are
46:39
just like having
46:41
all this power, yeah, and
46:43
kind of get to skate through, right, Like they're allowed
46:45
to make mistakes, they're allowed to funk up, they're
46:47
allowed to not ruin their life at you
46:49
know, twelve or fifteen or eighteen because
46:52
they maybe stole a pack of cigarettes,
46:55
right, that's not a death sentence for them,
46:58
where for us a lot more
47:00
risky. Yeah.
47:02
I could go anyway. I don't know. I could talk
47:04
about this forever, but it just makes me the
47:07
idea that talking
47:10
about black lives matter, or talking about black
47:13
justice or even black power indicates
47:15
that white people don't struggle, or white
47:17
people don't like haven't had hardships
47:20
in their life. It's not even about that.
47:22
It's it's just like your
47:24
parents didn't have like if you're a white person, like
47:26
your parents never had to worry about getting married
47:29
like you would. I mean, like it boils down to that, like
47:31
if if in our lifetime there are couples,
47:34
and and that couple still exists, by the way, if
47:36
I'm pretty sure, and it's maybe
47:38
hold on, maybe
47:40
I'm you mean they're still alive. Um,
47:44
that's what I mean. Yeah, they're still they still
47:47
Um, they still exist. But
47:53
they both passed. But Mildred she
47:55
she died. It was Mildred and Richard
47:58
Loving She passed to Way in two thousand
48:00
and eight, which is not even that long
48:02
ago. Um. I
48:05
only wanted to bring that up, just to bring up the fact that
48:07
like it's people want
48:09
to pretend it was ancient history and all these
48:11
black and white photos. Also, I did learn
48:13
something. I don't know how
48:17
much conspiracy theory you want to get into this, but
48:19
I was I read this article that was talking
48:21
about how they showed us in
48:24
schools. They showed us Martin Luther King Jr.
48:26
And Malcolm X in black
48:28
and white to make it seem like
48:30
it was a long time ago, even though they had color
48:32
back then in
48:35
history textbooks, in everything
48:37
we watched, I remember, they were always black and
48:39
white, but there was color back then. We saw JFK
48:42
and color, you know what I mean, Like that's
48:45
just like that's like this really subtle
48:48
racism and it's not even racism, it's
48:51
subtle historical manipulation.
48:54
Yeah, I don't
48:56
know, I've thought about that for a long time. I
48:58
really get bad. Yeah,
49:01
I mean I think that it again, it like kind of
49:03
serves like the narrative of
49:06
the people in America who want power,
49:08
which I think I've started using,
49:11
like I've started using that term the people the people
49:13
in America who want power to kind of distinguish
49:15
that, like not everybody wants not
49:18
everybody who's white wants power, and
49:20
not everybody who's a person of color doesn't
49:22
want power. Right, Like, there's you
49:24
can still you can kind of still be like
49:27
it's still possible to abuse the system
49:29
even as as a person of color, if you are
49:31
able to play the respectability politics.
49:34
Well enough, that's a really good point. Actually,
49:37
that's a good distinction to make. Yeah,
49:39
and I think that, you know, I
49:41
would I if I had to guess, I would say most
49:43
white people want power, right because like most
49:46
white people want to be wealthy so they don't
49:48
have to work. Um,
49:51
which is really cute when they tell the rest
49:53
of us just go get a job. But
49:57
yeah, I think that it doesn't it doesn't serve the
50:00
narrative of America, like
50:02
the myth of America. It's
50:04
it's really kind of essential to preserve
50:08
that and sort of calcify it. And at this point,
50:10
it's like, Okay, now we're going to talk about We're
50:12
gonna talk about all of it, right, We're not
50:14
content to just talk about the
50:18
the nice the nice parts, the parts
50:20
like where you get your hero who
50:23
you know, like, oh had
50:25
some flaws, Like hi, sorry, owning
50:27
other people is not a flaw. You're
50:30
sucking evil. Let's
50:33
just let's just be clear about this, okay.
50:35
But yeah, I mean I think that there are I
50:37
mean, the entire way that we are taught history
50:40
in this country is to like
50:43
preserve the myth mm hmm act.
50:47
I mean America would be better for everyone, white
50:49
people included, if we could get rid
50:51
of the myth and actually like be real,
50:54
be honest. And I think white
50:56
people don't really realize that. No,
50:59
the fact we were taught about mar Luther
51:01
King's assassination, Malcolm X's assassination
51:04
without even mentioning the FBI. The fact
51:06
that we never learned like I didn't learn about cointel
51:08
pro or I know how people actually say that a lot. I've only
51:11
read it, never said out loud, but I know totally
51:13
the whole program about how they literally
51:15
bugged black activists
51:18
and um, like they took
51:20
them down, like I'm convinced that
51:22
tupuxual Core was killed with the FBI, like you know what I
51:24
mean, Like I but we never
51:26
we were never taught about that element of
51:28
American history. We we were just talking they
51:30
were assassinated by some rogue white
51:33
person or something like I don't you know what I mean,
51:35
like not, And they never taught us
51:37
that, Like they were listening in on all
51:39
these prominent figures to
51:41
take them out because they were they were doing two.
51:44
They were wrestling the feathers of
51:46
this myth. Yeah, absolutely
51:49
well, And I I mean, I I don't like that's
51:51
that's not quit. Right, Like three
51:54
or four of the like primary
51:57
activists during the Ferguson uprising
51:59
have been found dead m and
52:02
scare quotes. Yep, the
52:04
police couldn't figure out who was because of
52:06
course they don't. They don't. Again,
52:09
it's like the cops don't serve
52:11
us, Like, they don't work for us, right,
52:13
they work against us. Actually, they work for people
52:16
with power and people, you know, people who
52:18
want power. The only people that
52:20
cops serve to protect are other cops
52:23
and people like that look like them.
52:25
That's why. That's how I always have thought. I mean,
52:27
like the reason when we've come to that realization is that
52:30
protectives are applies to other cops
52:32
and that's the government and really not
52:34
the people. Yeah.
52:37
Man, really, I
52:39
think I don't know. It's it's good to be angry,
52:41
though you can use it in a productive way.
52:44
Yeah, I mean, I think it's I think there's
52:46
a problem if you're not angry, honestly,
52:49
like, at this point, you don't you don't have any
52:51
more excuses. Yeah,
52:54
God, that's crazy that Sorry, I'm still thinking about the Ferguson
52:56
murders. That's wild. Like, yeah, they're
52:59
still out there at death is still pointil
53:01
prowing, you know what I mean, right
53:04
exactly that it's that it's like
53:06
it's still it appears to
53:08
be a trend and makes on what they've admitted
53:10
to us. With that trend in the past,
53:13
it kind of shakes out that m
53:17
M. I mean it lines up with the trend of the FBI
53:19
I submitted to right. And
53:22
again, those papers the
53:24
the FBI being exposed back in the
53:26
past only came out because people exposed
53:28
them, like they they they broke into a building
53:30
and they got papers that proved I
53:33
was policing and monitoring
53:36
prominent black voices that would
53:38
never have come out otherwise. Like we're
53:40
we're we need to take the history into our own
53:43
hands and show the truth,
53:45
because you're right, the myth is is
53:47
sinister and really prevalent every
53:50
aspect of our lives, whether it's black and white photos
53:52
or literally the prison
53:55
system just being like legalized slavery, you know
53:57
what I mean, It's just like I don't know. I
53:59
think that's why I really commend you and
54:01
your work should bring it back to you, is because
54:03
if people really do want to change, especially
54:06
if they're privileged, and I
54:09
mean if they're white, um, they usually
54:12
are. They don't want to relinquish that power
54:14
because there they benefit from the system that served
54:16
them, or they they've convinced
54:19
themselves that day someday will benefit because
54:21
they'll sunday have capital
54:24
and property, right,
54:26
Like that's part of the myths is like it's
54:29
really shitty if you're like a white person
54:31
and you're poor or even at this point, it's really if
54:33
you're white person in your middle class, like even that doesn't
54:35
get you very far anymore. Yeah,
54:38
but like part of the myth is like, oh, you you
54:40
too can be part of the top zero
54:44
point zero one. Yeah,
54:46
but you can't. You're more likely to be homeless
54:49
than to be a billionaire. But like, but
54:53
you know, again, like the myth serves
54:56
serves of people with power and people
54:59
who fire to power. I think
55:01
that the myths serves them, and it doesn't. I'm going to try
55:03
to really implement your phrasing here because
55:05
I think it's really a really accurate way to phrase
55:08
it. People that want power, Like example, like
55:10
the first example I think of like Candice Owens, Like
55:13
right, like like she's
55:16
not she's she wants power and
55:18
she's molded herself into
55:20
something that is palpable for the
55:22
people who are in power who are mostly white. But
55:25
it's it's a good example. It's not just it's not a black
55:27
and white issue. It's people that want power. There's
55:30
the people that don't have it. They're going
55:32
to try to really implement your phrasing going forward,
55:34
because I think it's very accurate. Yeah. I
55:36
mean, like the Attorney General of
55:39
Kentucky is a black man, right,
55:42
kind of still waiting on the people who murdered
55:45
Brianna Taylor to be arrested. But
55:47
he's black, but he's a Trump supporter, So hey,
55:50
I guess that's not going to work out very well.
55:52
Um. Yeah, it's like it really is about like whether
55:54
or not you want power, because there can all I mean,
55:58
there can always be people and
56:00
there will always be people in the system, um,
56:03
who benefit from
56:05
proximity to white
56:07
supremacy, right, Um, And
56:10
they don't also have to be white people. I mean,
56:12
the most one of the most conservative
56:14
people on the Supreme Court, it's
56:16
Clarence Thomas. So he's a black man.
56:19
Yeah, Like, let's just it's
56:22
just power. But he has so much power, that's
56:24
the thing. So yeah, it's
56:26
not that clear cut. Wow. Um,
56:29
I can literally we I'm sure both of us can
56:31
talk to you for hours about this, and
56:34
you should definitely come back on to really get into
56:37
more depth if you want to talk about in the
56:39
future. But I really thank you for coming on
56:41
and explaining some of the work that you're doing because
56:43
it's really important. And UM, I
56:46
want you to tell our listeners where they can find you
56:48
on Twitter, on Instagram, UM, where they
56:51
can find White Homework so they can go do white
56:53
homework. Thank you so much for having me on.
56:55
UM. I am on Twitter and
56:58
Instagram at my hellwork just
57:01
that's super easy. UM. You can also
57:04
find my work UM at tory
57:06
last dot com or just at story glass kind
57:08
of anywhere. UM that's t O
57:10
R I t O R I yes,
57:13
sorry with an eye. So at my website story last
57:15
dot com. You can go over to white Homework
57:17
dot com if you would like. We am
57:20
using my Patreon from my
57:22
podcast to pay the rent
57:24
for a Family of Color for a year. UM.
57:28
So yeah, it's just been like
57:30
someone who grew up pretty poor, it's been really
57:32
important to me to give back. So
57:35
that's what I decided to use that for. Ye, that's
57:38
it. I'm around tweet me h,
57:41
thanks so much for coming on the show. Um.
57:44
Yeah, but you what you just
57:47
said about because you grew up poor,
57:49
it means a lot of giving back. It's like the same idea
57:51
as like the poorest people in the world right now are using
57:54
their stimulus check to give back to all
57:56
these like donations, whereas
57:58
the richest people are just like floating
58:01
along and getting richer like phases
58:03
and everything. But it's up to us to change
58:05
the world. Man, It's up to us. Thank
58:09
you again. This has been lovely and you
58:11
are lovely and doing really amazing
58:13
work. This has been ethnically ambiguous.
58:15
It's ethnically am a m B on Twitter
58:17
and ethnically ambig a m B i G on
58:20
Instagram. I'm sharene It's sho
58:22
hero on Instagram and shrro hero six six
58:25
six on Twitter, and
58:27
I'm at ana hosting on Twitter. Yeah.
58:29
Um, and until next time, Uh,
58:32
do your homework. Do your homework. Ethnically
58:51
Ambiguous is a production of I Heart Radio.
58:54
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
58:56
the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
58:58
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More