0:00

Ethnically Ambiguous is a production of I

0:02

Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

0:04

iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

0:06

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:08

favorite shows. Hi, Hello,

0:11

Hello, Hello, this is

0:13

Ethnically Ambiguous. This is Anna

0:16

and Sharine. I didn't say your name this time

0:18

to not confuse you. Thank you so much

0:20

for that. Thank you. It was hard,

0:23

so you should be thankful because

0:26

I'm losing it. Okay,

0:28

Well, we have a great guest today. She's

0:31

part of like a sister team here at ihart

0:33

formally how Stuff Works. She's one

0:35

of our day warns. It's been a long time

0:37

coming that she actually be on this show.

0:40

She hosts many shows on the

0:42

I Heart Network, one including

0:45

Unpopular, another one including This

0:47

Day in History Class, and she's part

0:49

of the Afro Punk team

0:51

Sessions And honestly, it's

0:53

Eve's Jeff co. What else can I say other than

0:55

she's a great goddamn guest,

0:58

Sharine, take it. She's

1:00

great. This is a really good I

1:03

wasn't expecting that that baton pass. But

1:06

I really love this conversation. It's all over the

1:08

place, but it's so lovely. E's is lovely

1:11

and you're anna love her, stay tuned. Who

1:14

are we? Where

1:16

are they to? Who do we

1:19

become? What is it

1:21

to me? What do pas

1:25

there are? Who are my

1:27

parents? Where are my

1:29

pants? Why are we

1:31

born? We

1:35

are ethnically

1:37

ambiguous? Age

1:42

sharing? I

1:44

don't know. I'm just gonna go with it. Shara tang,

1:46

It's like an orangutang, but a sharing tang.

1:49

Hi. I can't and it doesn't work like that because

1:51

you have an a at an end and a nang

1:54

that sounds like an insult or some title

1:56

cuss word in a different language. Shrangu tang,

1:58

you're an orangutang um

2:01

and and you and Yeah, I

2:03

have I wish, I wish

2:06

I was clever, witty. Still

2:08

I think has made me

2:10

not those things. All I have is anna

2:13

banana. I'm anna banana.

2:17

M M. Yeah. Well today

2:19

is another day. Thank you for listening to this

2:21

podcast despite our really

2:24

eloquent intros whatever

2:26

you guys, yeah at

2:28

this point, yeah, but yeah, today

2:30

we have another guest episode, and

2:33

I'm excited to talk to this guest. I've quote

2:36

unquote met her for the first time like three

2:38

minutes ago, so I'm excited

2:40

to get to know her. Well. I feel like this guest

2:42

is a long time coming, like they're they've been

2:45

in my mind for like, well, that

2:47

person needs to be on the show. That person needs to be on the show.

2:49

I mean like they've been on a list. Yes, that's correct, you've

2:51

been on our list for a while. I

2:54

mean I've always seen your name and emails

2:56

for years. We've always just emailed

2:58

about stuff. But then I got to know you

3:01

in person this year in

3:03

Orlando, which is so we were in

3:05

Orlando, like March seventh,

3:08

traveling like a week later

3:10

the country shut down, Like it was

3:13

really weird, Like we were at a conference. Do you

3:15

know many people were at that conference? We

3:17

we talked on a stage in front of hundreds

3:19

of people. It really dark ship when you think about

3:21

it, like why were we That was not safe? But

3:24

whatever, we didn't know. We truly didn't know, and that

3:26

was the problem. Like no one had any insight. We

3:28

were just like, what's happening? Okay?

3:31

But yeah, this this guest, um,

3:34

she is a how stuff

3:36

works original

3:38

if you you know, alum means

3:40

it's over. I don't know, but

3:44

now in my heart also you know human,

3:48

She hosted unpopular

3:50

show This day in history class was

3:52

part of afro punk basically just one of our

3:54

host producers, all around

3:57

cool folk at how stuff works.

3:59

Now. I hear we have Eve's Jeff

4:01

coat with us. Thank you for

4:03

having me. I remember the conference,

4:05

but it's like I had never thought about it in the

4:07

context of like the careers

4:09

are pretty much blew up right after that, because

4:12

I remember getting into Uber's and

4:14

then being like, Wow, isn't this so crazy?

4:17

I don't really want to be driving this

4:20

right? So what y'all are saying, well, y'all are

4:22

saying is that COVID started

4:24

at a podcast convention Florida.

4:28

We weren't really into Florida. I mean

4:30

everybody was. We were all spitting into microphones.

4:33

Yeah, that's that's the that's

4:35

the beginning of the end. Patient zero

4:38

was a podcaster. Holly had

4:40

hand sanitized that she kept giving us, which

4:43

you know, we weren't wearing masks,

4:45

Like it's like how much you can hand sanitized or doing that

4:47

like when people are like everyone's just

4:49

talking face to face. You know, we're

4:52

really good at rubbing our hands together though, So

4:55

it was pretty early on, so I think at that point

4:57

it wasn't and it was coming, but

5:00

it wasn't as widespread, but

5:02

I remember flat after I flew back

5:04

from that trip, like I don't know, maybe

5:06

on the airline, I got strep

5:09

throat and I was convinced I had

5:11

caught COVID in uh Orlando,

5:14

and I was gonna have to like I was like, I have to send an email

5:16

to everyone I spoke to, like I think I got

5:19

it. And then I went to my doctor and he was like, no,

5:21

this is strep throat and I was like, it

5:23

feels like nives. Okay, I know nothing,

5:26

it hurts so bad. But then I got

5:28

antibiotics and I was fine. But it was

5:30

like there was like I don't remember those two weeks. We

5:32

were like, Sharine, I think I have COVID. But

5:35

I was like, it's just just calm down. You can

5:37

go to the doctor. I was like, Orlando,

5:40

can you believe it. I went to Orlando and got

5:42

COVID but I

5:44

was fine. Yeah, but thank you so

5:46

much for being on the show after this

5:48

this long time. Yeah, you're

5:51

talking to us from Atlanta right now? Yes,

5:54

yes, good old Georgia. How

5:56

long have you been in Atlanta for I've

5:59

been in the metro Atlanta area

6:01

for twenty four years

6:04

now. Since I was about like three years old, I've

6:06

been here. Um. Well yeah,

6:08

so for a really for a really long time. Okay,

6:11

let's let's go to the beginning of that though.

6:13

Where were you before that? When you were one

6:16

to three? Where were you born those years in which

6:18

I can't remember pretty much anything except for the

6:20

fact that I had a dog named Sarah and a cat

6:22

named Sydney. I was in Columbia,

6:24

South Carolina. Um,

6:27

and most of my family is still there, like

6:29

a lot of my extended family on both my

6:31

parents are still live in South Carolina. And

6:34

pretty much like all

6:37

of the other Jeff codes in existence

6:39

in the United States, like like beyond

6:42

my family, just people with the last name and

6:44

are living in South Carolina right

6:46

now. Interesting, Jeff

6:49

Coke, do you know the origin of your last name?

6:51

I don't. My only assumption

6:54

is that sounds very English to me. I'm

6:56

pretty sure it's English so it has something

6:58

to do with slavery, But I have no idea what the origin

7:00

of that is. I'm super interested in it, um,

7:03

and it's something I plan on researching, but I just haven't

7:05

gotten there yet. Yeah, it does sound

7:07

pretty British, You're right, Jeff Jeff

7:10

coach very uppity. Yeah,

7:13

well, okay, so you basically, for

7:16

the majority of your life grew up in Atlanta. Yeah,

7:18

when I first moved here, I was in College

7:21

Park, which is for people who don't know, like on

7:23

the south side of Metro Atlanta for

7:25

most of my childhood and moved

7:28

to the city later on. But yeah, this is where I've been.

7:30

This is what where I've called home for a while.

7:32

Now. What brought your

7:35

family to come out to Atlanta area? I

7:37

think it was just like a matter of

7:39

convenience for like work and stuff like

7:41

that. It's really nothing, nothing super

7:43

interesting at all. When I moved here was

7:45

the Olympics year, I believe, so

7:47

I came here right around the time that was happening.

7:50

So you were an Olympian athletes

7:55

okay, okay, okay, jumping

7:58

hurdles when I was three years old, I

8:00

mean prodigy Like

8:02

this, What did your parents

8:04

do for work? My dad has pretty much

8:06

been teaching for a really long time. My

8:09

mom works in unemployment

8:11

and yeah, like they were pretty

8:13

much doing that and I was nurding

8:16

out as a child. I really

8:18

loved school, Like all my life, I've really loved

8:20

school and there is a home video.

8:23

Well technically it wasn't at home, so why are they called home

8:25

videos? I don't know. There is a video? Really good

8:27

question. Um,

8:29

I feel like the only applasd vhs, Like, if

8:31

we were to take videos of our children

8:34

today, you wouldn't call it a home video.

8:36

And it's called a story now

8:39

Instagram story, it's called story,

8:42

it's called a real Yeah. Oh yeah,

8:45

God, can

8:47

I see that what I

8:50

was? You go to your mom's highlights

8:52

and you find your name, and that's how you see what

8:54

your childhood was like one for each kid

8:56

other than the middle kid, which God forgotten about.

8:59

That's just a joke about my life. Sorry.

9:05

Everyone's like, oh,

9:09

anyways, okay, wait what were we? Um?

9:12

You had a home video of you when you oh yeah,

9:16

of me saying that like somebody asked

9:18

me. I can't remember what the exact question was,

9:20

but somebody asked me, like what

9:22

do you love most? Or like what's your favorite

9:24

thing? And I was like homework.

9:28

So that's pretty much like where who I

9:30

was as a child's adorable.

9:33

Do you think some of that was because your dad was a

9:35

teacher, or was like education

9:37

like important in your family or you just

9:39

happened to be very into it. I

9:41

don't know, Like, I really don't know where it came from.

9:44

I think sometimes square

9:46

has been in square like holes. I don't know. And

9:48

then I just still happened to like be

9:51

the type of person who really loved school

9:53

and also thrived in it. Also love

9:55

things I'm good at. I'm pretty bad at liking things

9:57

that I'm not good at. So good have

10:00

a favorite subject as a kid, are you

10:02

just like it all? I would say my favorite

10:04

subject was definitely writing

10:07

or language arts as they called it, you know, back

10:09

in the day. I've always

10:11

loved writing. Nice. So,

10:13

okay, you're growing up, you come to Atlanta.

10:16

What was growing up in Atlanta? Like? Did

10:18

you have to live around white people?

10:22

Like? What was that experience? Because I know

10:24

Atlanta can also be kind of segregated

10:27

based on what I've seen when I visited,

10:29

So I'm curious what that whole experience was like

10:31

for you. I think by some people's accounts,

10:34

who grew up in Atlanta proper like

10:36

me, I grew up in Metro Atlanta, which isn't technically

10:39

Atlanta that like I was in Atlanta

10:41

city kid, I was in Atlanta suburb kids so

10:43

I spent a lot of my time on the South Side, which is largely

10:47

black, mostly elementary school.

10:49

It kind of changed. It got a little bit more diverse

10:51

when when I got to middle and high school, I believe.

10:54

But when um, I was in elementary school,

10:57

it was mostly black people. I

10:59

grew up round and my neighborhood

11:02

was mostly black people. Like I said, I grew

11:04

up in College Park in the Riverdale

11:06

area, UM, which is Clayton County

11:08

for those folks who are familiar with Atlanta.

11:11

And yeah, like I

11:14

don't know if she's listening or not. I have no idea.

11:16

But I did have one white friend when

11:19

I was in elementary school who

11:21

went to school with me, and her

11:23

name was Brooke, and I will never

11:25

forget one time she came. It

11:27

was like, I think it was her birthday. Had to be her

11:29

birthday, because you know how in school

11:31

people would come with the

11:34

cake or the cupcakes for the class and it

11:36

was their birthday. Um, she

11:39

came with like a cake or a cupcake, and I remember

11:41

her father coming

11:44

and like, you know how something okay. So I always doubt

11:46

this memory in my head because things

11:48

get very tricky hit her. But I swear

11:51

this is the truth. Um, but her

11:53

father came and he was like a wrestler. He was

11:55

huge, like he was super mustli. He

11:58

had blonde hair, and like years

12:00

later when I got older, it's like had some sort

12:02

of like cultural awareness after I had

12:04

been watching MTV. First, Oh my

12:06

god, I thought

12:09

that she was I thought that she was

12:11

Brooke. Like I was like, what was that Brooke Hogan?

12:14

Like I was like, her name was Brooke, her

12:16

dad was a wrestler, And now like

12:18

I'm pretty sure this. I don't know if this memory is true

12:20

or not, but um, because

12:22

it was so long ago and that was like such a short

12:24

period in my life, but I believe

12:26

it. I believe it. You went to school with Brooke

12:29

Hogan and she was your best friend who was

12:31

white. I'm kidding it was my

12:33

friend white friend. Um.

12:35

I did have been off topic,

12:38

but it isn't kind of fucked up. But if

12:40

it's your birthday, you have to bring the

12:42

things. What's your parents really

12:44

bring it to like help you way?

12:47

But like I don't know, don't

12:50

well. I mean that's like if

12:52

every kid, like if you had to straight up keep

12:54

a schedule of everyone's birthday to be

12:56

like all right, it's Trevor's birthday.

12:59

Get the cup kids, Like it's like bring your

13:01

own cupcake. It's you know, it's it's on the

13:03

parent. Uh And I don't know

13:05

where these like

13:09

kind you know, but it's like

13:11

the parent basically like how a parent

13:13

throws your birthday party or basically like

13:15

throwing a mini birthday party at your school.

13:18

That's fair. So the parents also a parents

13:20

problem? Yeah, it also,

13:22

but it does feel nice because it's like,

13:25

if you really think about how hard we've worked as

13:27

children, like we were we were still grinding

13:30

then, like since being in

13:32

school so many hours a day was still a mandatory

13:34

thing to like have one day

13:36

that you knew you could have a treat and share

13:39

it with the people that you had to do

13:41

work all day with me, It's pretty

13:43

nice. Yeah, that's fair. Sorry, I just

13:45

was I was thinking about those cultural

13:47

norms that were so accepted. But

13:50

okay, so you went to school with Brook

13:52

Coogan when

13:55

you were like middle school, high school,

13:58

all those questions of like what you want to be when

14:00

you grow up? Like, what was your answer to that question?

14:03

Writer? Yeah, I've always

14:05

wanted to be a writer, Like writing writing

14:07

a novel has it's like

14:09

the thing that like looms above

14:12

me all the time. I just like I.

14:14

I have wanted to be a writer since I

14:16

was probably in like kindergarten or first

14:19

grade. I was trying to think about

14:21

this the other day because I

14:23

remembered what the story was

14:25

that made me want to be a writer that I wrote when

14:27

I was in kindergarten, first grade or

14:29

whatever that was. But I remember the

14:31

prompts that we were given to write it,

14:33

and it's like there were a bunch of

14:35

strips of paper in a bucket

14:37

that had different nouns on them, like princess

14:40

and like tree and frog,

14:42

and we had to pull those

14:45

words from the bucket and then write a story

14:47

based on that. And then when I wrote that story,

14:50

they were like, Eves, your story is so good,

14:52

and I was like, oh my god, I love this, Like what is

14:54

this writing thing? And uh, I

14:56

think it probably went back before that because I've

14:59

always loved reading. But what was the prompt

15:01

and or the story? I can't remember.

15:03

I think I know. I'm pretty sure I had princess in

15:05

the title, because I titled the story

15:08

whatever the words were that I was given,

15:10

So if it was like princess in a tree.

15:13

It was like the story.

15:16

But yeah, did you say how old you were

15:18

when this happened. I think I was in kindergarten

15:20

or first grade. Oh wow, okay, so

15:22

you knew very early on. You're like, oh, this is

15:25

what's up? Yeah,

15:28

nice, I don't know ship in kindergarten,

15:32

No, neither. I was eating like rocks.

15:37

I wasn't. I

15:40

was eating like a bunch of like toxic ship though in

15:42

retrospect maybe not. In kindergarten, I was like a toddler,

15:44

like you know, like Plato and

15:48

chapstick that's flavored like those lips smackers.

15:50

Like I have a

15:52

grudge against those lip smackers

15:54

that had different flavors because how was I not supposed

15:56

to eat them when I was like two years

15:59

old? Like, what I'm

16:01

trying to say is I've consumed a lot

16:03

of toxic stuff, and I think it explains a lot about

16:05

me as an adult. But it's it's

16:07

changed your ear. It's like changed.

16:12

Oh boy, well,

16:14

good luck to you, thank you. I

16:17

hope everything works for this with me. Okay,

16:21

So actually let's just take a quick break. We'll come

16:24

back and keep talking. All

16:36

right, We are back by the Jeff

16:38

co and I do want to say, I googled

16:41

your last name. I wrote jeff Co name

16:43

origins because I am your ancestors

16:46

dot Com and it says jeff Co is

16:48

one of the oldest family names to come

16:50

from the Anglo Saxon tribes

16:53

of Britain, and it is derived

16:55

from the baptismal name for the

16:57

son of Jeffrey. So, uh,

17:01

you got Stanley member's named Jeffrey,

17:03

You got a racist crest? I don't. Yeah,

17:09

yeah, I was really on crest a while

17:11

ago, and just how much privileged there is

17:13

and having a family crest. Having

17:16

a crest means you've oppressed people

17:19

exactly. Like It's like and

17:23

I'm like, on the other end, I don't know

17:25

where my name comes from. Yeah, yeah,

17:29

I never knew much about like American history,

17:31

like when it comes like African Americans and

17:33

like how you know, like how basically

17:35

anything with slavery worked. Because one,

17:38

I'm terrible at school, and then like as

17:40

I got older, I became obsessed with Iran and

17:42

understanding my own culture. And of course, you know,

17:44

they don't teach you anything really other than

17:46

like civil rights. You know,

17:49

like I'm

17:51

okay, was the good one they

17:53

teach you like the basics of like slavery

17:56

existed, you got that, but A. B. Lincoln

17:59

saved them and then you know,

18:01

So, why do I still remember a Cherry

18:03

Tree story about George Washington? Like I don't

18:06

I want that deleted out of my brain? Like

18:08

why I I don't even remember

18:10

that one? But like, yeah, so we had Cody

18:12

Ziggler on here and he was talking about like slave

18:15

families and that was like the first time I was like, oh,

18:17

yeah, well, this all fucking makes sense.

18:19

Like they just name

18:22

you the first of all, you know whatever,

18:24

they have slaves and they just give you their

18:26

name, and then all of a sudden, you're part of that

18:28

family. And it's like so

18:30

surreal to me, Like they would just be like, and you

18:33

because you belong to this, you have our last name,

18:35

and now that's your ancestry.

18:38

It's like, well, it was their way of owning

18:40

people. It's really sick

18:43

when you really think about it, your name, when

18:45

it's given to you by someone else. First of all, that's

18:48

like taking away a whole another level level of your identity,

18:50

but also when it's used to own you, that

18:53

is just so dehumanizing in so many ways.

18:55

I think it's it's just all part of the

18:57

manipulation and um

19:00

just complete. I mean obviously racism,

19:03

but I think it's there's a very dehumanizing

19:05

element to not only being stripped

19:07

of your name, but given a name,

19:10

and then your name

19:12

as a signifier

19:14

of your owner is so fushy

19:16

and dark. It's levels to it. I mean,

19:18

there's there's so much stuff that you hear about and can

19:21

read about for forever and to still

19:23

never be able to fathom or feel in your

19:25

bones truly or like really embody

19:27

that thing because you

19:29

didn't live it. And that's that's the case for me. I

19:32

mean, yeah, yeah, naming

19:34

is so important and I

19:36

wish I didn't know more about it, but it

19:38

just runs so deep family. Yeah,

19:41

it's also something I can never fathom

19:44

so important to learn about. I was. I was at the

19:47

Legacy Museum with my nieces recently,

19:49

taking them through it. I hadn't already been to it. But

19:52

um, they're not learning it like when they go

19:54

to school. They're not teaching them that there

19:56

was a link between from slavery

19:58

to mass and cart mass incarceration.

20:00

That's very clearly drawn. So I am

20:02

grateful to have spaces that can teach

20:05

them, I mean including the people who

20:07

surround them, like me and their other family members

20:09

and other people there around, but like you know,

20:12

being able to for them to

20:14

understand what it meant to How

20:16

how something that seems so small as not

20:20

knowing your name, like or

20:22

having someone's name who

20:24

has been consistently abusive

20:27

to you, who has harmed you in so many ways,

20:29

and you having that very very

20:31

real tied to that person, is how how

20:33

deeply that can affect somebody so

20:35

many layers to it, and then it's just like generational

20:38

trauma and then having to keep that name

20:40

and like raise a family under that name, and

20:42

it all just goes back to just trauma.

20:45

Like it's just my god, America is

20:47

built on bullshit. That's

20:49

our slogan, didn't you know America?

20:53

Some dude,

20:56

it's a sprinkle of racism and

20:58

everything else in between. Good

21:01

times. Okay, starting to bring it down, but

21:03

facts are facts we gotta talk about. Let's

21:05

go back to your life a little bit. So you

21:08

wanted to be a writer your whole basically

21:10

your whole life. Did you go to

21:12

college? Would you pursue that as you graduated?

21:14

What was like like after like high school.

21:17

I did go to college for writing. I went to Savannah

21:19

College of Art Design. Um, I was in

21:21

Atlanta most of the time, and I spent a

21:23

little bit of time in the cost and I spent a little

21:26

bit of time in Savannah, but most of my time I was in Atlanta.

21:29

And um, yeah,

21:31

I pretty much never stopped writing, even though that's taken

21:33

many forms, and I still haven't written that novel

21:35

yet. You got time,

21:38

you got time. I know, I know, I'm not wresting

21:40

myself or anything. You know. They really try to really

21:42

try to hammer in those success inspiration

21:45

like later in life success stories of

21:48

all the authors who like I

21:50

sent my manuscript in this many times

21:52

and was rejected this many

21:54

times. But there's that narrative in

21:57

juxtaposition with the narrative that I get

21:59

really a lot of anxiety about

22:01

where it's like, um so

22:04

and so accomplished this by this age,

22:06

and like she made her first feature

22:08

at twenty four, and it's like what,

22:10

like where's what am

22:13

I doing wrong? Like where's my pilot

22:15

or whatever? Thirty

22:18

lists. Yeah, that doesn't help anything. I hate

22:21

those things where it's like you're making it seem

22:23

like the younger you achieve something the

22:26

more better you are at it, or like a prodigy

22:28

kind of idea. But they're not taking to

22:30

account that the majority of those

22:32

people probably have their

22:35

own connections or their own types

22:37

of privileges that got them to their at that point.

22:39

Not everybody, obviously, but for

22:42

me, reminding myself about to compare

22:44

myself to anyone else's timeline or

22:46

whatever, and to just remind myself why it

22:48

is I got started doing X,

22:51

Y and Z. And for you, it's reminding

22:53

yourself that you love to write forever, you

22:55

know, so that should be a consistent

22:58

noss. I can is a thread

23:00

I think too, to the stuff.

23:03

It's just reminding yourself it this is something

23:05

that you actually like, which is tricky

23:07

because I feel like the society forces

23:09

us to monetize their passions and

23:11

that can make us a little bit jaded

23:14

with those passions. So yeah,

23:17

yeah, I'm definitely in that place sometimes.

23:20

I um yeah, I trying

23:22

to balance all the things, like writing just

23:24

because I love writing, instead of writing

23:26

for something else or for somebody else,

23:28

or about something I didn't necessarily want to write about,

23:31

or writing in a format that I didn't want to. It's

23:33

a constant struggle, but you know, like

23:35

I can come back to it. I can come back to the love. Yeah,

23:39

it'll come back. I think. So

23:41

everything takes time, Like I go in and out

23:43

of what I like all the time, Like

23:45

I hate podcasting for like weeks,

23:48

and then I come back I'm like, I love hearing

23:50

my voice. Fuck

23:54

this, I'll be like, who cares about my opinion?

23:56

It doesn't matter. We all have such dumb

23:58

opinions. And then I'll can be like

24:00

I'm funny. I'm like,

24:03

I have such an emotional roller coaster with doing

24:06

this job that like half the time

24:08

I'm like, you never wanted this, lave the

24:10

industry, live on a

24:12

farm, and the other time it's like, no,

24:15

like I need those likes, which

24:19

is like sickening that it's

24:21

like sickening, but it's true. It's like, just

24:23

be real with yourself. And but I

24:25

hate the emotional anguage of anguish

24:28

of what it is to be like an artist and feel

24:30

like you're being judged yet you're

24:32

putting your heart and soul into something,

24:34

and then you're just like, well

24:37

they don't like it. Well, because

24:39

so much of the current way

24:41

we share things now, sharing

24:44

our work, sharing our life, there's

24:46

an intrinsic element of validation

24:48

that is there, you know, like you

24:51

can pretend that your social media is

24:53

for you, but really it's not, like you

24:55

know, like really it's for an external

24:57

type of recognition, validation. And

25:01

when you're a creative person, when you're an artist, when

25:03

you're a writer, filmmaker or whatever. In

25:05

my case, anyway, even a comedian does this, like

25:07

you use social media to remind people that you

25:09

exist and to remind people

25:12

that like, hey, I'm here. I can

25:14

do this, especially when you see people

25:16

getting jobs off of social media, whether

25:18

it's Twitter or whatever. For

25:20

me, this year put into perspective

25:23

like why do I do certain things. I think poetry

25:25

is by one thing that I don't really

25:27

make a lot of money off of, but I'll

25:29

do it because it's like therapy for me. Like

25:31

I'll write it and I'll read poetry

25:33

because it makes me feel good. And

25:37

I was reminded of that this year when

25:39

I just like finally wrote

25:41

a poem for the first time in a long

25:43

time and like March and I was like,

25:45

you know what, this feels good.

25:48

It's okay that I'm not making money off of

25:50

this right now, Like I should do it because it feels

25:52

good. So yeah, those

25:55

reminders I think are good. But so

25:57

you studied creative writing. I

26:00

did. I'm really glad that you found that

26:02

too, Like I'm glad that you found poetry, and like that's

26:04

a thing that you could go to right now, because I know

26:07

it's so hard, like for everybody, and everybody's

26:10

dealing with their own struggles in their own ways, not

26:12

even or even taking taking into account

26:15

everything we were going through before the

26:17

pandemic happened and before

26:20

we found our lives in such different

26:23

situations because of all

26:25

of the many ways it's affected us economically

26:28

and mentally and physically,

26:31

and it's a lot. So I'm really glad that you found Thank

26:33

you if that means a lot. Yeah, I mean,

26:36

listeners know that. Like I I've been writing

26:38

poetry since I was like a preteen, and I think

26:40

there are certain jobs that you have in mind

26:42

when you're before you become

26:45

aware of the world. Like for me, it was poet,

26:47

photographer, filmmates because

26:49

all these things that even astronaut

26:52

was in there, you know what I mean, Like I would be that and

26:54

then you exactly

26:57

you get a little bit older and I'm like, okay,

27:00

I failed a p chemistry. Can't be an astronaut.

27:03

No one's really like a poet nowadays,

27:05

Like I can't. Can I make money off of that? Maybe

27:07

I should give that up too, So like you get

27:09

older and more jaded and

27:12

again trying to monetize yourself. So

27:14

yeah, it's it was it's nice to remind your

27:16

adult self and also your child self, Like

27:19

this gave me happiness. Then it was the

27:22

adult world that made me feel like

27:24

it wasn't enough. Yes, I

27:26

don't know. I've been having a very introspective

27:29

time and as and you're right, like I was depressed

27:31

before this year, I just am

27:33

more depressed now. But

27:36

yeah, yeah, it's so hard

27:39

to manage, Like even when I do

27:41

do a thing, even when I do

27:43

do a thing for myself, it's

27:45

still like sometimes will end up turning into

27:47

a thing. Okay, I did this for myself and it feels

27:49

really great. It feels great to share it with people,

27:52

regardless of what response happens, because I

27:54

think there's sometimes when I can I'm sure

27:56

other people go through this as well, but expect

27:59

have an expectation around with the response to

28:01

something you create artistically is and

28:03

that can be a thing that

28:06

matters to you, even when you're putting it out for yourself.

28:09

Yeah, anyway, like, even if the thing is just for

28:11

yourself, if you're expecting a response,

28:14

like it can still morph

28:16

into that third category of like, well no, but it's

28:18

out, Like how can I honestize

28:22

I would first agree and relate. Yeah,

28:25

yeah, I mean I feel like we found

28:28

the way to do it in a way with podcasting.

28:31

I mean, me and Anna are genuinely

28:33

just recording our conversations with each other, and were

28:36

somehow we have a podcast. It's

28:39

not somehow. I mean, there's totally meeting behind

28:41

it, like people like, you know, I'm kidding you. I was just

28:44

like what I really in the beginning, I

28:46

really did think like we're just kind of

28:48

talking to each other and recording it like

28:50

this is podcasts are just scheduled

28:52

conversations. But the hustle behind

28:55

that was real in the sense that I had to scam

28:58

my way to the top of I in

29:00

order to be like and I have done a podcast

29:03

where I just say whatever I want

29:06

and they're like, okay, give it

29:08

to her. You need more

29:10

women of color, and they're like, it is true.

29:12

I just held them all like emotional like I

29:14

was like an emotional terrorist all

29:16

over the office until someone let me do what I

29:18

wanted, and then everyone

29:21

made me feel like I was such a piece of ship

29:23

for so long for

29:25

being so annoying. Oh. I would literally

29:27

the looks. I would get shown up, like why is there only

29:30

one brown person in that promo video? And

29:32

they'd be like, nobody

29:35

asked you anna, and they'd be like, okay,

29:38

I've been told to behave you don't know the ship

29:41

They've said to me, Dude. They have told me to stay

29:43

in line so many times by

29:45

like people that I respect have been like, Okay,

29:47

maybe it's time you not say something like that, and I'd

29:49

be like until

29:51

you hear my podcast when I come for you, that's

29:54

crazy. Corporate America is crazy. That's all I'm

29:56

saying. But then you know what you know you do, You're like, fuck

29:58

it, send over the paycheck like

30:05

that got dark game. I mean, it's just

30:07

facts. It's like I sit here and I'm like, can

30:09

you believe they won't listen to me? And then I'm like

30:11

where's my money? It's

30:14

just I'm aware that I sold

30:16

out like that and then still

30:18

try to have like a say

30:20

but then like deep down, I'm like, girl, you've sold

30:23

out so quickly. They were like, you need to do it

30:25

this way, and I was like, I wouldn't think of it a selling

30:27

out, and you you have to you

30:30

have to sign

30:33

on that, like you

30:35

have to survive. You have to be on the table. And

30:37

you also can't blame yourself for being hopeful,

30:39

like can we not lose that? I mean, I get it, I get

30:42

I get it. You're right, but it's

30:44

tough. It's tough when you want to accomplish

30:47

something yet you just also know the

30:49

situation you're in. It's like there's only so

30:51

much I can do, which is like you know, even

30:54

and I are on like the diversity Initiative,

30:56

and it's like there's so much you want to accomplish,

30:59

but you know, there's also like you have to take

31:01

it like very minimal, step by step

31:03

because you genuinely don't want to scare the

31:05

ship out of like a corporation. We're like, whoaoa

31:08

loa, come on, guys,

31:11

we're nice here. Yeah, You're like yeah, but

31:13

like you're not seeing a lot of things, so you

31:15

just have to like step by step. And

31:18

you know, I saw it pretty quickly when because

31:20

I had never worked a full time job like

31:23

I worked at house. Stuff works like I just freelanced

31:25

everywhere, like that's how I did my work,

31:28

and so you know, I could be vocal because

31:30

it's not like I was, you know, my salary

31:33

didn't depend on I could be like that was shady. You guys shouldn't

31:35

do that. That That was racist, Like, come on, guys, just this

31:37

is all white people, Like, why am I in the room with all white

31:39

people? I'm likely Beyonce, I'm

31:41

like, why are all these white people here? I won't

31:43

work with you. I'm just joking. That's

31:46

just something that happened with her at like rebox or something.

31:48

But anyway, um or was it FIFA,

31:51

FILA, I don't know, one of those places. But

31:53

then I started working like how stuff works, and

31:55

then it just became very clear, like, oh, you

31:57

can't just you literally can't be like running

31:59

your mouth and being like too

32:02

many white people like

32:04

because your your salary depends on it, your

32:06

health insurance depends on it. There's

32:09

ways and people have said racist.

32:11

I'm I'm still a freelancer for the most part, but

32:14

for a long time I was depending on working in production

32:17

as far as far as my health insurance goes or whatever,

32:19

and you know, like there's a lot of racist

32:21

things that were told directly to my face,

32:24

and I didn't really do any think about it because I

32:26

was like, this person gives me. I

32:29

can't pay my rent without this job, you know, like

32:31

I need to just be good. I

32:34

think I just I mostly learned after

32:36

like the first year, you have to actually like

32:38

you have to have strategy, because you

32:41

know what the label

32:43

of like loud woman of

32:45

color being annoying is so

32:47

quickly placed on you, of

32:50

being like all she does is complain about everything,

32:52

and it's like, well, it's not complaining, it's just

32:54

like pointing out that there's clear injustices

32:57

happening and everyone's ignoring it. And

32:59

then okay, what do you do? How

33:02

did you? I want to know how you found podcasting?

33:04

So you're in college

33:06

studying writing, tell us about the steps after

33:08

that. I started on

33:10

the editorial side and How Stuff Works and

33:14

podcasts were there as well.

33:16

Back then when I joined How Stuff Works,

33:18

they were doing podcasts, but there definitely wasn't

33:20

a focus on it then, and I just kind

33:23

of slid into the podcast

33:25

side because it was still writing

33:27

like it was still writing. I still got to do what I loved.

33:30

It was just in a different medium. And

33:32

I have thought about this in hindsight

33:35

looking back at it, I was like, I don't think I would.

33:38

Podcasting is something that I don't think I would have ever

33:41

peg myself as doing, just because

33:43

I am not. I do not like talking, like

33:45

I have always been throughout my life a person

33:48

who who like

33:50

only wants to speak when I feel like I

33:52

need to and definitely

33:54

will like step to the side for other people to speak until

33:56

that moment it's like right for me to speak. So I was

33:59

of course like, oh is raising my

34:01

hand in the classroom, like when it was time for

34:03

me to answer my question. But like if I got to

34:05

a McDonald's and I had to make an order for myself,

34:07

I didn't want to do what I didn't want to.

34:09

I did not want to go up to that cashier and asked

34:11

them for some fries, like it was not me. So

34:14

yeah, it definitely was a thing that I didn't think I would

34:17

be behind the mic doing, like

34:19

I'm a writer, That's who I am, That's

34:21

what I do. Um, But it ended up that way, and

34:23

it still did merge two things that I really

34:25

loved, which is sound because I love music,

34:28

and then also writing, so

34:30

it just it made sense or and I think

34:32

like too, writing is so much sounds

34:35

like to me. It's writing is so much about having

34:37

an ear and sounded so into

34:40

girl when it comes like writing. So that's

34:42

how that happened. And then I started writing

34:45

and hosting and it kept doing

34:47

it. Yeah, well, how did you find

34:49

your first hosting get?

34:51

Like, how did that first hosting game come about?

34:53

Knowing like your history with like not wanting to

34:55

be that talkative, I

34:58

saw that what or people were

35:00

doing because we were in the same space at

35:02

how Stuff Works. So I never saw myself

35:04

as using writing in a podcasting way before I got

35:06

to How Stuff Works. I also didn't know like anything

35:09

about podcasting at that point. Definitely

35:11

didn't didn't know it from a

35:13

consumer perspective and

35:15

also didn't know it from a behind the scenes

35:18

perspective. But my only

35:20

interface with podcasting

35:22

our podcast was and

35:24

I didn't even remember this until like years

35:26

after I

35:28

started working on them. The

35:31

like pretty much one and only podcast

35:33

I had ever listened to before I started podcasting

35:35

was podcast because

35:37

I was really into Harry Potter like, but I

35:40

wasn't listening to it because it was a podcast. I

35:42

didn't know it was a podcast. Like sometimes I was

35:44

listening on their

35:46

website, and sometimes I was listening

35:48

on my mom's classic iPod, like when

35:51

I was going trips and stuff like that, literally

35:53

a blue Classic I pod, like waiting

35:55

for the next episode to come out, waiting on all

35:57

of the inside jokes, like being

35:59

super into it in that way because I was huge

36:02

Harry Potter nerd um and

36:05

that was my first interface with it. But yeah, from

36:08

just started kind of inserting

36:10

myself in other people's business essentially.

36:13

Yeah, I do recall you were doing

36:15

research at one point. Oh

36:18

yeah, I was. I'm

36:20

trying to figure out if I started doing research

36:22

before I hosted that episode or not, but

36:25

I was. I was doing research for other

36:27

podcasts that were on the

36:30

I Heart network. Was that

36:32

before I Heart? I don't know, but I was doing research

36:34

for other other podcasts, and

36:36

so I was doing things like putting

36:39

together documents for people that included

36:41

research for topics that they were sent by. I

36:43

was creating calendars

36:45

with information that was pertinent

36:47

to people's podcasts, and so, yeah,

36:49

I was kind of a person that

36:52

different podcasts went to

36:53

to gather research for them. That

36:55

was kind of that was pretty short lived. Yeah,

36:58

I remember you were very quickly soon after that hosting

37:00

stuff. But I also remember you did a lot of the more

37:02

like technical stuff behind the scenes

37:04

as well, because I actually just had a

37:06

memory of panic calling you once asking

37:09

for help because I like, uh,

37:11

you know e t B. We're talking about this before we start recording

37:13

me this very antiquated system that we were using

37:16

before the one we're on now. But I remember like

37:19

posting a show on the wrong

37:21

RSS feed because it was just that simple.

37:23

You accidentally in the slider click

37:26

a different show without realizing

37:28

and you publish your show on the wrong

37:31

feed, which is like to me, like what

37:34

And I remember calling you like whatever happened,

37:36

Like that shouldn't be a thing that

37:38

anybody who's using the system could do. Ye

37:41

should have access

37:43

a different RSS feed without realizing

37:45

it. Um, I were calling you like a Saturday morning,

37:48

being like Hi, it is high yeah and a

37:50

l a office. I don't know what I've

37:52

done, like very early on, being like what

37:54

is going on? It's funny you remember

37:57

that because I don't, so I guess like

37:59

you felt really that I think you felt way

38:01

worse about it than it actually. I was like

38:04

the l A office was so new and I was

38:06

the only person uploading,

38:08

Like I was the only person I was flown out

38:10

to Atlanta to train and they didn't

38:13

teach anyone else, and I was like, I don't know what

38:15

this ship is complicated. I don't know how to

38:17

retrain someone else. So it's like I

38:19

remember no literally being like Okay, so this,

38:21

this, this, and this, you got it, and I was like, no,

38:25

full, no one uses this. This is

38:28

crazy, Like we were this podcast

38:30

was on a different network before it got pulled

38:32

over to how Stuff at the time, and

38:35

they used like, aren't nineteen. It's like you just

38:37

clicked upload, insert send

38:41

published. So to me, like I was

38:43

so out of my depth. And also I'm not like

38:45

someone who understands code very well, like I

38:47

understand the very very basics. So

38:49

the terminal thing was just I don't know

38:51

what we were doing. So like I remember

38:54

someone calling me being like probably Jack

38:56

or Nick, I don't know myles being like hey, so this is

38:58

on the wrong feed and mebe like oh

39:01

my god. Oh

39:04

and then like maybe emailing Tamika

39:06

and to Meka being like I just call yous and

39:09

may be like

39:11

like literally thinking like that's it, my career is over.

39:13

They'll never let me upload again, like

39:16

and then being like just switch the thing and

39:18

being like, oh my god, it's that. It's

39:21

so that shouldn't have been that easy. Switching

39:24

it back should not have been yeah, like

39:26

when it should have happened in the first place, but then the fixed

39:28

being so it was just such a system.

39:30

It was so coplicated. Yeah,

39:33

Like it was like this is what we have already that

39:35

we're using, so we're just gonna make

39:38

it work. Yeah, let's take

39:40

one last break. Okay, everybody,

39:42

we'll be right back, and

39:53

we're back. Eves.

39:56

I imagine that you grew up with people mispronouncing

39:59

your first name in yes,

40:02

on accident and on purpose, so I

40:04

can run this, oh yeah,

40:06

well in a friendly way in some ways,

40:08

like people that I knew had their nicknames

40:10

for me that were like why

40:13

this this, But

40:15

that was like an acute, see endearing way get

40:18

those things. Um, so it

40:20

was never like a malicious I'm

40:23

gonna by mispronouncing your name.

40:26

Uh, that never happened, at least not

40:28

as far as I can remember. But I

40:30

have gotten I

40:32

mean, and of course the things you kind of exect,

40:35

so eve without the pronunciation of

40:37

the S. I had a friend in school who

40:39

I had a teacher who would never pronounce

40:42

the S on my name. She would always say eve Eve

40:45

Eve. And I was in her class for a whole year.

40:47

This was like seventh grade, and

40:50

my friend would on my papers, my written

40:52

papers that I would turn in, she would underline the so

40:56

a very subtle act of aggression because

40:59

my teacher. I created it because I didn't

41:01

really care because I'm

41:03

used to it. It's like, um, I know some people

41:05

care a lot about their names and how

41:07

they're spoken, and of course I have nothing against

41:10

that. I think that's totally fine, but I just kind of been I

41:12

get it so much that I'm just used to it. So yeah,

41:15

that was one of them. And then another weird one

41:17

was Jeff. I gotta I've gotten

41:20

at least for Jeff's.

41:23

Over the course of your last name, yeah,

41:25

people would just shorten my I guess they would skip

41:27

past my first name and also cut

41:29

off the sect that second half of my last name.

41:34

Your last name is coach first name Jeff,

41:37

Yes, And then I

41:39

don't know where that went, but the silent

41:42

first name. The whole thing is silent.

41:44

Actually, I like that. Wow? Is

41:47

that? I guess you couldn't,

41:49

Like, if you could name a child ease

41:52

would just say it's silent. Could

41:54

you do that? The whole name is silent? Yeah,

41:57

that's pretty funny. Just I

41:59

mean, yeah, if Grimes can name her kid

42:01

a fucking equation, I'm sure we can name

42:04

the kid a silent word. Yeah,

42:07

where's where's that name? Where's that name?

42:09

I've never met at Eaves with your spelling,

42:11

to be honest, and I did ask

42:13

on him before we record, how to pronounce your name? Just in

42:15

case and Jeff

42:19

Jeff's coat. Wait, you're the one who

42:21

started it.

42:25

But do you know where that name? Like why

42:27

your your parents chose that name? Yeah,

42:29

it was my dad. He chose it because

42:32

of Eve st Laurent. He has

42:35

no direct tie or that much of a care

42:37

about Eve Sant Laurent as far as I know. And

42:39

also it's not pronounced the same. So I

42:42

was just gonna say, either blew my mind

42:44

about that pronunciation, or I'm an idiot,

42:46

Like it's neither of those.

42:49

That pronunciation is Eaves

42:51

right, like like it's

42:54

without this s. But my s is pronounced

42:57

word. Sorry, I was just thinking about that really

42:59

hard. Yeah.

43:02

Yeah. And I've been asked if

43:04

I'm from the Islands because my

43:06

name is French and I'm not. So

43:09

that's interesting, interesting.

43:12

Interesting. I have the same thing where I have

43:14

like zero connection to my name because technically

43:16

I was born on A But you can literally call

43:19

me anything, and I'm like, yeah,

43:21

same, I can. I don't really care people must

43:23

pronounced my name at this point I've gotten honestly,

43:26

it is so annoying to admit, but

43:28

people look at my name at the doctor's

43:31

office, at any type of place where I have like

43:33

like I have to be called and I get

43:35

Sharon maybe of the time.

43:37

And I don't understand how people can land

43:39

on Sharon after reading my

43:42

name, but that's

43:44

what it is. I mean to ease,

43:46

that's pretty standard across I

43:48

mean, I don't want to make any assumptions about how people

43:50

pronounce English because that feels like I

43:53

want to allow for the breath of you know, I

43:55

will say it's mostly white people. They call me Sharon though,

43:58

Okay, well they know they they no

44:00

better. Okay, yeah, they're no better.

44:03

There's no a, there's no oh there's

44:05

it's sucking e yeh. But

44:07

even my name, it's pronounced differently in Arabic,

44:09

it's pronounced differently, like you know what I mean. It's just I

44:12

people call me Sharne because just like an Americanized

44:14

version of my name. But like, I'm okay

44:16

with being called anything. Really. I used

44:19

to hate my name growing up to very like

44:21

common Persian girl name, and I just

44:23

hate the idea of being common, and

44:26

but growing up I've learned to accept

44:28

it. I also know there's like a hot second, and

44:31

I don't know if I ever said I've ever said this on the podcast,

44:34

but I really wanted like a gender neutral

44:36

name, and there was a hot second

44:38

in high school that I really was trying to go by

44:40

Shane for

44:42

a really long time and it did not land

44:45

or because so nobody called you that

44:47

when you asked them to. My friends

44:49

tried, and I told like one

44:52

teacher that I liked, but it didn't

44:54

really latch on, and my parents thought it was

44:56

hilarious and stupid, and I was like, fine,

44:58

whatever did that? Though it

45:00

was it was really yeah, I really

45:02

wanted it to work because I was

45:04

like, I'm about to go to college and I could just reinvent

45:07

myself there and I'll be Shane. It

45:10

didn't work, though I should tried harder, man, I could

45:12

see that, Shane. No, it's

45:14

it's too late, I'm sure. And now now

45:17

how I've come around to it is like I

45:19

really love my mom and dad. My mom is

45:21

the one that gave me this name, and I love

45:23

my mom and so it makes me proud

45:25

to use that name now, to like

45:28

to use it. And I also like to defy

45:30

people's expectations when they meet me, and I'm not

45:32

Persian. So yeah,

45:36

yeah, that the the whole gender neutral thing. I

45:38

think it wasn't unexpected

45:40

benefit for me because because I'm

45:44

kidding sorry um

45:48

partially no, because Eve was

45:50

typically perceived as what people would

45:52

expect to be a guy's name, and I

45:55

feel like I'm kind of getting away with pulling a bowl

45:57

over people's eyes, especially on Waker.

46:00

You mean, yeah, like what I'm emailing,

46:03

they don't know I'm a black well,

46:07

especially because sometimes you think about Allay,

46:10

but especially because your last

46:12

name maybe comes before your first name sometimes

46:15

in an email like that happens when

46:17

you when we were emailing, your last name came up

46:19

first. It was like Jeff Cocoma Eaves.

46:22

Yeah, well that's my heart style. But

46:24

like I mean, like that's you could have fooled me, you

46:27

know what I mean, if I didn't know any better. I'm talking

46:29

to Jeff Cote Jeff

46:31

co Eaves. Yeah,

46:33

I see that Eaves.

46:36

I like the name Eves the more I've

46:39

gotten to know you, I mean, and your

46:41

name, because I've never heard that name, and I honestly didn't

46:43

even realize didn't even make the connection of Eve Saint

46:45

Laurent like either either, it doesn't

46:47

right now. I was like, oh, yeah, I guess

46:50

that is that word. But I

46:53

like, I think the name Eaves is very pretty. There's

46:55

eeching about it. There's

46:58

a ring to it. It's almost I

47:00

can't explain it, like it reminds me of like

47:03

Tinsel in a way. It's not weird. I

47:05

don't know what I'm like literally like free associating

47:07

right now, but there's it's

47:09

It's a very nice name. I like

47:11

it. Yeah, I do like

47:14

it too. It's very beautiful in my opinion, Yes,

47:17

maybe the word was looking for is beautiful. What am I talking about?

47:19

Tinsel? Tinsel? It's

47:21

shiny, isn't it? Tinsel is shiny. Yeah,

47:25

maybe, don't you know what? I see green when

47:27

I see it, But then I also just might be thinking of like Atlanta

47:30

and like woods and

47:32

like Georgia being green. Do

47:35

you have synesthesia where you connect? I

47:38

always do that. I

47:40

don't know why I just do that. I

47:43

guess I have synesthes That's why you

47:46

write poetry too. No, I just I

47:49

am a day dreamer. I think I'm

47:51

very interesting, you know. That's actually what you were saying is

47:53

like you're not someone who likes to talk to people,

47:56

like I hate talking to people in

47:58

person. I am such a like

48:01

when I like I podcast because

48:03

I can do this without like I

48:05

can hide behind him, Mike. I don't look anyone

48:07

in the eye. Technically I'm looking at you guys, but

48:09

I'm mostly looking at my selfless be real,

48:12

but uh, it's uh. Talking

48:14

to Shrine is easy because I know sharene I have a podcast

48:17

with someone I went to college with. Like, it's the easiest

48:19

thing in the world. Talking to Shrine, Oh,

48:22

thank you. Yeah, it's like second nature. I can talk

48:24

to you about anything, like I don't want

48:27

to talk to someone in person necessarily,

48:29

though, Like when I have

48:31

to talk in our staff meetings. I'm like

48:33

fucking kill Like

48:36

it's my nightmare having to describe a

48:38

podcast we're working on. You know, God,

48:40

I don't like, I just don't want to do it. I don't.

48:43

I also don't want to go order fries. I

48:45

don't want to talk to anyone. If someone

48:47

says hello to me on the street, I'm like, you

48:49

know, like I am like so freaked

48:52

out by everyone because I'm actually like very

48:54

deeply introverted, and I think a part of that like

48:56

synesthesious. I'm just like in my head like

48:58

thinking and enjoying living my

49:00

own life. And I just don't

49:03

want I don't want to have to like exit

49:05

my safe space and be like, Hi, where

49:09

can I find lettuce in this grocery

49:11

store? You know, Like I don't want to interacts

49:14

interesting. I'm very

49:16

comfortable talking to strangers. I

49:18

don't like go out of my way to do it. But like

49:20

I remember out of like my two sisters or

49:23

my I have two sisters,

49:25

but I remember even in my family, if anyone

49:27

like it's too chicken to do something,

49:30

I would do it, like I w just I was. I

49:33

think I'm whenever I take those like personality

49:35

tests, I'm always one of my in

49:37

E n SP. But

49:39

my E is always right

49:42

on the border. It's always leaning towards E, but

49:45

the eye is not far behind kind of thing.

49:47

So yeah, I think I think that just means for me, I

49:50

just think of it as like an antisocial extrovert

49:53

um. But but yeah,

49:56

I can't even bring myself to take a quiz like that for

49:58

fear I might have to interact with someone about it.

50:02

Would you have to interact with I don't support.

50:04

I don't know. That's what. I can't think

50:07

of anybody else but support. Every

50:09

time I have been called support, Oh

50:11

my god, give me a break. Not

50:13

interested? Also, I mean, who likes those

50:17

who likes talking to like customer service? Yeah,

50:20

and I think I don't know if I

50:22

could say most, but a lot of them don't want

50:25

to be speaking with us too. Yeah.

50:27

Word, Yeah, we've had the most

50:29

random conversation with you. This has been such a weird

50:31

episode. But I love people gonna love

50:33

the TV part. Yeah, really

50:36

relate to that hard even I was like,

50:38

okay, yeah, we're TV.

50:41

I don't know what that is. We've

50:43

had so many stresses that we just can't help

50:45

it. Yeah. No, I mean I'm glad that you guys

50:47

can commiserate, you know, but

50:50

but yeah, we're nearing the end of the show and it

50:52

bones me out because you're gonna have to come back

50:55

and actually like, I don't know, hang

50:58

talk if you want to, only if

51:00

you want to. I want to talk

51:02

about your getting insecure the podcast.

51:05

You're like, maybe like no

51:07

pressure, like whatever, you know, I actually fuck you. It's

51:10

just like I don't have to

51:12

come. And because

51:14

you said she doesn't like talking, I was trying

51:17

to take a reference to that. Let me just clarify.

51:20

I don't even know what the word for is it for it is, but

51:22

let me just say that it's really hard for

51:24

me to have conversation in

51:27

large crowds and like on stages

51:29

that anxiety really gets to me. But in conversations

51:32

like this, when they're a lot more intimate,

51:34

one on one, then I can handle

51:36

it and I really like it. But it's

51:39

just something about the anxiety

51:41

of strangers in a

51:44

populated place that just

51:46

really difficult for me, Like

51:48

a like a potentially COVID

51:51

infested Orlando that was miserable

51:53

for me because I was like, why did I fly out here?

51:56

Yeah? But then you got strapped and you were

51:58

like, all my concerns are balid data. Yeah,

52:02

but okay, West, before we actually go, can

52:04

you tell us about the podcast that you host or

52:06

co host rather and like what it's all about.

52:09

Yeah, so This Day in History Class

52:11

I was the host of that, and you can still

52:13

hear those episodes, um they're

52:15

running, which you'll also probably hear Tracy pe Wilson

52:18

on that because they're running together with the episodes that

52:20

I did. But in that show, I pretty

52:22

much went through a

52:24

day by well exactly

52:26

what I did. It was every single day and episode was

52:28

released and it was usually less than ten minutes. And

52:32

I talk about many various

52:34

things in history. Um. So it can

52:36

be on science, art, technology,

52:39

it can be on social issues, social movements.

52:42

Um, it can be on like things like

52:44

strikes. People's birthdays

52:47

often come up and it's

52:49

just basically a little tidbit of whatever

52:52

happened on that day to provide some sort of context

52:54

to the day that we're currently living in. Which also,

52:57

now that I think about it, is like it's

52:59

hard to remember or even what day

53:01

it is kind of right now, like Tuesdays

53:03

and Wednesday it's a Friday,

53:06

so um. But yeah,

53:08

Friday is it

53:10

is our friend, our mutual friend,

53:13

Lloyd, who's been on this podcast before. His

53:16

birthday was on Friday the thirteenth

53:18

in March of this year, which is when

53:20

the pandemics hit.

53:23

So we have a theory, a working theory.

53:25

He has a theory that I'm just latching on too. I should

53:27

say that Friday thirteenth

53:29

isn't cursed at all. It's that moment between

53:32

the Friday thirteenth, like we had to wait

53:34

for another thirteenth to come to makebe

53:36

get a little bit of relief, you know. So

53:39

the gap between the Fridays,

53:41

that's what you should worry about. And it's been a long fucking

53:43

gap, you know, like it's been a long gap. Okay,

53:46

don't get me started on numbers, because here

53:48

another oa, here another hour. But

53:51

yeah, I think there's definitely something in the numbers. A couple

53:53

of days ago was eleven eleven as

53:55

well. M h yeah,

53:58

I'm not gonna start with numbers. Let me not even will to

54:00

know I was. I was just gonna

54:02

say, like, my numbers, my life

54:04

path numbers of four this year is

54:06

a four, a number four year, like

54:08

it's yeah, yeah, so

54:11

alignment in the in the forest. For me, it's a big thing.

54:14

Um, I'm gonna stop there though, because there

54:17

I'm just gonna did. It's

54:20

not even it doesn't make any sense honestly if you think about

54:22

it, it's just like numbers always aligned. But

54:25

at the same time it's the thing for

54:27

me. Yeah, I mean, I am

54:29

someone that really likes signs

54:32

quote unquote, like I guess,

54:34

I just I'm a little bit superstitious about certain

54:36

things. So I I relate

54:38

to your number thing because I can. I

54:41

always add up, Like I know my

54:43

name is seven four six, for example,

54:46

and that's like, just then how many

54:48

letters are in my name? Um, my

54:50

sister, she's a five, my little sisters of four

54:52

if she's just raising her nickname. Always I pay

54:55

attention to numbers a lot, so I appreciate

54:57

someone else that's also like into that, and

55:00

also certain numbers I like more than

55:02

others, which is such a weird thing to say,

55:04

but like, um, when I'm

55:06

like driving in my car and their volume

55:08

is on a certain number, dial, I change

55:11

it to what I like better, even if it's louder or

55:13

saucer, just because it gives

55:15

me a better, better feeling,

55:17

and that makes me sound a little bit cookie, but

55:20

I'm cookie. Yeah,

55:23

this has been a riveting conversation. You are

55:25

a delight. Please come back. I

55:31

just for the first time counted how many numbers

55:33

are in my last name, and I'm kind of shook that that's

55:35

never come up in my life before. I mean,

55:37

I'm just weirdo though, Like I there's no

55:39

reason why you should know how many letters are in

55:41

your name other than just like thinking

55:44

there's a reason behind it, like I do. How

55:47

many are there's one to four

55:50

eight, and I have a long last name. I've never

55:53

thought to count. You guys have just sucked me up,

55:55

probably for the rest. I just now in

55:57

my head, I have a hole

56:00

to fall into this weekend. You're yeah,

56:03

I was just thinking. Then then I was like, do I like the number

56:05

forty eight? And then I was like, and then you start talking

56:08

about audio dial things,

56:10

and I remember my boyfriend's always like, put it on forty eight.

56:12

That's the perfect sound that I'm like, Oh my

56:14

god, forty

56:19

eight is twelve, twelve is three, so

56:21

there's three and anything. To you. That's

56:23

why I think of it. I want three kids.

56:25

I don't know why I just decided that one day I was

56:28

like, I'll have three kids, and then I'm like You're

56:30

probably never gonna have kids, and I'm like, no,

56:32

that's what you do. Have three pets. I

56:35

have three kids already, so I want six kids,

56:37

three three animal, three human. Gonna

56:41

balance it out, all, right, Eaves, Where

56:43

can people find you? Before I escalate?

56:47

I am You can find me at Eve's

56:49

Jeff codes So Eaves is my first

56:51

name. If it wasn't clear that my first name is not Jeff.

56:55

Eve's last name Jeff coo its felled

56:57

j f c o A t um, you

56:59

can find me on Twitter at Eves depcode um,

57:01

on Instagram at Not Apologizing

57:05

and all of the shows so Unpopular.

57:07

You can look at Unpopular. It's about people in history

57:10

and it things that they had that they

57:12

had to do to overcome situations

57:14

and how they were often persecuted for it.

57:17

And on This Day in History class

57:19

and on Afropunt Solution Sessions

57:21

and various other

57:24

podcasts that I am not one but I am producing

57:27

who Yeah, Yeah,

57:30

check out Eves Powerhouse Producers.

57:32

Yeah, doing really cool work. And

57:35

until the next time you're back, listen to some of

57:37

her ponds. I do love a good

57:39

short digestible pod. You know what I

57:41

mean, Like I love like just like because for

57:43

me, I don't listen to podcasts. But if

57:45

there was like a like knowing there's one that's

57:47

like ten minutes a day, I'm just like, you know what, maybe

57:50

like I can I can do that, Like I can wake up in

57:52

the mornings in ten minutes and then get out of bed or

57:55

drive for ten minutes or whatever. But

57:57

anyways, I need to shut up now. This

58:00

is ethnically ambiguous. You're listening

58:03

to and it's ethnically and a

58:05

m B on Twitter and ethnically and big

58:07

a m B I G on Instagram.

58:09

This is Sharine. I'm Shiro Hero on

58:11

Instagram and Shiro Hero six six

58:14

six on Twitter. The Devil

58:16

lives on teen

58:19

to Yeah, and I'm just at Anna

58:21

hosting on Twitter right

58:23

there and

58:27

on Twitter, and it's gonna change

58:29

your handle to just forty eight.

58:32

President is going to say,

58:35

that's probably what people would interpret that as, Oh my

58:37

god, you're right. Yeah, I'm

58:39

pretty too now I think about it. Forty eight yeah,

58:41

oh my god, you're right. Yeah, Oh my god. He's

58:44

connected, yeah

58:46

connected, And and it's hyperbolt.

58:49

I knew I liked you, like,

58:51

my head's about to implode because it's too

58:53

much information for me to hand. Like for

58:56

me, like, you know, those those gas stations

58:58

are whatever, those convenient source seven D six.

59:00

I've always said that, being like that's me because

59:03

when it first and last name,

59:06

I'm a weirdo. That's my kind of spooky

59:08

though, Like are they speaking to me directly?

59:11

Oh? I never thought of it that way. I think about

59:13

the seventies Sixers, the basketball team.

59:16

Oh, I forgot about that. You know you're connected

59:18

to that because Jack O'Brien,

59:20

our technical boss in the l A Division.

59:23

His father is an assistant

59:25

coach for the seventy sixers basketball

59:28

team. One degree

59:30

of seven, Yeah, one degree of separation.

59:32

It's all connected, so surreal,

59:35

and I actually that makes me think my dad, I

59:37

always am connected to seven eleven because every

59:39

time we drive by seven elevens, my dad goes seven

59:41

eleven because his birthday is July eleven.

59:44

And you know what seven eleven is? What? No, never

59:46

mine, that's nine. I was gonna say it's ten, A can

59:51

say it's three. And you know what nine eleven

59:53

is. I'm sure, I mean, there's a

59:55

reason what if nine eleven

59:59

it's what our people committed. That's

1:00:02

it for tonight. Yeah, just

1:00:04

kidding that eleven was an inside job. Never

1:00:08

gonna end the podcast like that. Spreading

1:00:10

conspiracy theories. That's

1:00:13

an old conspiracy theory. It's not wild

1:00:17

wild years.

1:00:20

Yeah, that's dated. To say that it's

1:00:22

crazy wild. I don't want to say crazy.

1:00:25

Anyone takes somehow, I know. But

1:00:29

then to think, like George Bush could have

1:00:31

committed something like that, like that guy. That

1:00:33

is right, Okay,

1:00:37

I guess it. I

1:00:40

think about it. It It would have been Cheney. It

1:00:43

is an inside job due Cheney was smart.

1:00:46

Okay, have you seen Vice.

1:00:49

I'm just kidding. You should end the show before this escali

1:00:52

any further. Yeah. By

1:00:54

guys and gals and everything

1:00:56

between. Listen to eves podcasts,

1:00:59

all of the I'm gonna go crawl

1:01:01

into a home now and stay

1:01:04

there for the rest of my life. By

1:01:24

Ethnically Ambiguous is a production of I

1:01:26

heart Radio. For more podcasts from

1:01:28

iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1:01:30

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1:01:33

favorite shows. H