0:00

What is it that

0:00

helps us break bad habits and

0:03

form healthy new behaviours? How

0:03

can we stick to long term goals

0:08

or complete meaningful projects

0:08

long after our enthusiasm has

0:13

run dry? You're listening to the

0:13

Eudaemonia podcast. I'm Kim

0:17

Forrester and today it's time

0:17

for a deep dive into self

0:22

discipline.

0:24

Welcome to Eudaemonia,

0:24

the podcast that is all about

0:28

flourishing. Plug in, relax and

0:28

get ready for the goodness as we

0:32

explore the traits and practices

0:32

that can help you thrive in life

0:36

... with your host Kim

0:36

Forrester.

0:44

Giovanni

0:44

Dienstmann is an international

0:46

author, meditation teacher, and

0:46

self discipline coach. He's

0:50

trained in a wide range of

0:50

modalities, including

0:53

mindfulness, Zen Buddhism, and

0:53

mantra yoga, and he is the

0:57

author of the best selling book,

0:57

Practical Meditation. It's my

1:02

pleasure to be chatting with

1:02

Giovanni today to explore the

1:05

concept of self discipline, and

1:05

to learn why it's vital that we

1:09

build an unwavering commitment

1:09

to our authentic goals and

1:12

values if we truly want to

1:12

thrive. Giovanni Dienstmann, it

1:17

is just such a delight to have

1:17

you here on the Eudaemonia

1:20

podcast. Welcome.

1:22

Thank you very much, Kim. Such a pleasure to be here.

1:24

I felt that the

1:24

whole concept of discipline with

1:28

regards to well-being was really

1:28

fascinating and I think that's

1:32

because, for me, the word

1:32

discipline conjures up

1:35

unpleasant images, Giovanni.

1:35

Okay? Images of having been

1:39

growled at by my parents and

1:39

teachers, or being judged as

1:42

wrong, and punishment. When

1:42

framed in that way, discipline

1:48

really doesn't sound like something that's aligned with the idea of happiness and

1:50

well-being at all. How do you

1:54

define this concept of self

1:54

discipline?

1:57

Yeah, I

1:57

love this question because this

2:00

is something that many people

2:00

misunderstand. And that's why I

2:04

say, I talk about self

2:04

discipline and not discipline.

2:08

Discipline is something that

2:08

comes from the outside, in. And

2:12

self discipline is something

2:12

that is from the inside, out. I

2:16

define self discipline as the

2:16

art of living life in harmony

2:21

with your highest goals. The art

2:21

of living life in a harmony with

2:25

your highest goals and your

2:25

highest values. So if part of

2:29

your highest goals is that you

2:29

want to be always healthy and

2:34

full of energy, and well, then

2:34

that means that in your daily

2:39

life, you're going to have to

2:39

make decisions that take you a

2:41

step closer to that ideal. And a

2:41

decision that takes you a step

2:46

closer to your ideal might be,

2:46

you know, to eat more healthy,

2:51

or to sleep half an hour more

2:51

today, or to practice meditation

2:56

this morning. And every time

2:56

that you make a decision like

3:00

that, you are exercising self

3:00

discipline, because you are

3:03

prioritising something that will

3:03

move you towards your long term

3:06

goals. And it's not necessarily

3:06

something that gives you any

3:10

instant gratification. Part of

3:10

our brain wants that instant

3:14

gratification; that comfort,

3:14

that pleasure, here and now. And

3:17

that part is the obstacle to

3:17

self discipline.

3:20

We all know the monkey mind. Absolutely, Giovanni. So you're saying there

3:22

that self discipline is a

3:25

commitment to what is most

3:25

meaningful to us; it's a

3:28

commitment to our values and our

3:28

goals. But does that mean that

3:33

successful self discipline

3:33

begins even before we begin a

3:38

project, even before we conceive

3:38

of an endeavour? Is self

3:43

discipline also, perhaps, about

3:43

identifying the wisest goals and

3:48

values, or being disciplined

3:48

with regards the kind of people

3:52

and environments that we choose

3:52

to expose ourselves to?

3:56

Yeah, I love these questions. Absolutely. Self discipline

3:57

makes no sense if we don't have

4:01

a goal; if we don't have a

4:01

strong sense of purpose. Self

4:05

discipline is the tool that

4:05

allows us to live on purpose.

4:09

And so people who are not

4:09

ambitious, who don't have any

4:12

particular goal, self discipline

4:12

makes no sense for them. For for

4:17

those of us who are type-A

4:17

personalities, who want to make

4:20

a change in ourselves or in our

4:20

life, it is very, very, very

4:24

likely that that change will not

4:24

come easy. And if that change

4:28

doesn't come easy, that means

4:28

that we're gonna have to be

4:31

consistent with a certain type

4:31

of action or habit. And

4:36

discipline is what allows you to

4:36

be consistent with things that

4:39

don't give you immediate result,

4:39

but are aligned with the person

4:43

you want to become.

4:44

So let's go back

4:44

to that whole idea of discipline

4:47

versus self discipline, because

4:47

I'm still wondering how it is

4:50

that we encourage ourselves to

4:50

be aligned with our goals, and

4:55

we encourage ourselves to be

4:55

aligned with our values, without

4:58

self criticism and without self

4:58

judgement. Is there a particular

5:02

vocabulary, Giovanni, that is

5:02

wise for us to use when we're

5:07

urging ourselves to be more

5:07

disciplined? Are there words to

5:10

avoid in our inner monologue?

5:10

And are there particular phrases

5:14

that you would suggest are

5:14

healthier and wiser for us to

5:18

use?

5:18

Yeah. So I

5:18

think an important distinction

5:21

here is 'want to goals' versus

5:21

'have to goals'. Alright. So

5:26

when we were kids, and we hate

5:26

doing our math homework, and our

5:31

parents say, "Hey, you have to

5:31

do your math homework. It has to

5:34

be ready for tomorrow", you

5:34

know, that is discipline. Our

5:37

Dad or Mum is disciplining us to

5:37

do something that is good for us

5:41

but we don't want to do. Now

5:41

compare that with another kid

5:45

that just loves math. No one

5:45

needs to tell him to do the math

5:48

homework. He will do the math

5:48

homework, and he will seek more

5:51

homework for him to do because

5:51

he just loves math. Math is

5:55

something that is enjoyable for

5:55

him. Or perhaps it's something

5:58

that is connected to his

5:58

identity - he sees himself

6:02

working with math in the future;

6:02

that being a bigger part of his

6:05

life. So for the first kid, you

6:05

know, doing the math homework is

6:09

a 'have to goal'. There's a

6:09

sense of chore, of drag, you

6:13

know. "I have to do something

6:13

that I don't want; that I don't

6:15

really understand why." And in

6:15

the second case, it's a 'want to

6:20

goal'. Like, I want to become

6:20

better at math because either I

6:24

enjoy the process, or it's

6:24

meaningful to the person I want

6:28

to become. So the path of self

6:28

discipline, you know, the way I

6:32

teach it - I call it mindful

6:32

self discipline, which is a term

6:36

I coined - and that is to

6:36

differentiate from the way that

6:39

self discipline is taught out

6:39

there. If you go to Amazon and

6:42

you type self discipline, you

6:42

see the books that come out,

6:45

most of them have a very martial

6:45

or military tone to that. It's

6:52

in the cover, it's in the language and it's all about willpower and forcefulness. You

6:53

know, you're forcing yourself to

6:57

do the things you know are good

6:57

for you. But for me, as a

7:01

meditation teacher, which is my

7:01

background, you know, it's not

7:04

about forcefulness. It's about

7:04

awareness. It's about being

7:08

aware of who you want to become

7:08

- of the ideal identity, that

7:14

your ideal future-self - and

7:14

then using that as a compass for

7:19

your everyday life decisions. So

7:19

I like to play, saying that self

7:24

discipline is about the inner

7:24

soldier - it's based on

7:27

testosterone - while mindful

7:27

self discipline is about the

7:31

inner monk. And it's based on

7:31

awareness.

7:34

That's just

7:34

beautiful. I do wonder, though,

7:36

Giovanni, the way that you

7:36

describe self discipline, and

7:39

the way that it sort of nurtures

7:39

us into greater meaning and

7:44

greater purpose in our lives, is

7:44

it more about saying 'no' to

7:47

ourselves or is it more about

7:47

saying 'yes' to ourselves?

7:51

Hmm. And

7:51

this is the thing, that decision

7:55

comes, I think it's comes from

7:55

Latin, and it means 'to cut'.

7:59

Right? So every decision is, we

7:59

are cutting away something.

8:03

Whenever we're saying yes to one

8:03

thing, we're saying no to many

8:06

other things. Right now, you're

8:06

saying yes to being here and

8:10

recording an episode for your

8:10

podcast, because that's

8:13

meaningful for you. But you're

8:13

saying no to so many other

8:15

things that you could be doing

8:15

in this moment, and many of them

8:18

which would be pleasant and

8:18

comfortable. So whenever we say

8:22

yes to one thing, we're saying

8:22

no to many other things. But

8:25

what we don't realise is that

8:25

when we're saying yes to certain

8:30

indulgences to certain

8:30

temptations, repeatedly - when

8:33

we are compulsively saying yes

8:33

to distractions, and social

8:36

media, and news and apps, and

8:36

games, and TV, and all of that -

8:40

we are little by little saying

8:40

no, repeatedly, to that part of

8:44

us that has a deeper sense of

8:44

purpose. And these things

8:48

accumulate and leads to a life

8:48

of boredom; a life that we are

8:52

not fully engaged. For some

8:52

people, it can make them

8:55

depressed because there's no

8:55

deeper sense of meaning or

8:58

purpose. There's just trying to

8:58

get more and more pleasure, and

9:02

comfort, and distraction.

9:04

I love that and

9:04

it makes complete sense to me.

9:06

Yes, I'm sitting here now

9:06

recording a podcast because it

9:09

enlivens me, and it is

9:09

incredibly fulfilling and

9:12

meaningful for me. However, I

9:12

could be choosing indulgence; I

9:16

could be eating the ice cream

9:16

that I know is in the freezer

9:19

right now and watching a YouTube

9:19

video again. So I can see how I

9:25

have said no to many things to

9:25

say yes, in a really lovingly

9:30

self disciplined way, to the

9:30

thing that will most fulfil me

9:34

in this moment. Is that what you're saying?

9:36

Yeah, yes.

9:36

So, saying yes, versus saying no

9:40

to ourselves. You see the whole

9:40

dilemma of self discipline and

9:44

willpower is that we are complex

9:44

beings. And part of us wants

9:48

something and the other part

9:48

wants something else. Right? We

9:51

have the three layers of the

9:51

brain, which is a concept that

9:55

you or one of your guests might

9:55

have already explored. You know,

9:58

there's the lizard brain. That

9:58

is the most primitive, the

10:01

oldest part of the brain. And

10:01

that part of the brain only

10:04

cares about survival, avoiding

10:04

pain, and experiencing pleasure,

10:08

right now. It's a very narrow

10:08

view of life. And the most

10:13

evolved part of the brain, which

10:13

is the prefrontal cortex, that

10:16

part of the brain is involved

10:16

with awareness and willpower,

10:20

and setting goals, and rational

10:20

thinking, and planning, and all

10:23

of that. So it's like there are

10:23

these two different beings

10:27

inside of us. One of them is

10:27

only concerned about living life

10:30

in the moment. And, you know,

10:30

surviving, avoiding pain, and

10:34

experiencing pleasure right now.

10:34

And the other one is looking at

10:38

the long term. The other one is

10:38

looking for fulfilment, not

10:41

survival. Is looking for self

10:41

actualization. And self

10:46

discipline is this process of

10:46

human evolution, where we go

10:50

from the primitive brain to the

10:50

more evolved brain. And we don't

10:54

do that by shaming ourselves,

10:54

like, "Are you going again for

10:56

that donut? What are you doing?"

10:56

You know, because shame is not

11:01

helpful. And it's not helpful

11:01

because a shame is a negative

11:07

emotion, it creates emotional

11:07

stress. And what we are really

11:11

good at doing when we are in a

11:11

state of emotional stress, is to

11:15

seek emotional relief. And we do

11:15

that by seeking instant

11:19

gratification. So if you want to

11:19

cut down on sugar in your life,

11:24

and you end up eating a big

11:24

slice of cheesecake one day

11:28

where you didn't want to, if you

11:28

shame yourself, you're creating

11:31

a state of emotional distress.

11:31

And in order to relieve that

11:36

state, you will seek other

11:36

sources of instant

11:39

gratification, which may be

11:39

sweets again. So instead of

11:42

using shame, in mindful self

11:42

discipline, we just become

11:46

aware. We just become aware

11:46

that, right now, I forgot about

11:51

my goals. Right now. I told

11:51

myself a story, an excuse, and I

11:55

believed it. And I'm human, and

11:55

that's okay. That's going to

11:58

happen sometimes. What can I do

11:58

better tomorrow? That's it. We

12:02

don't add shame; no blame, no

12:02

self criticism. These are not

12:06

necessary. Just, "I see that I

12:06

did this, I see that this is not

12:10

advancing me towards the person

12:10

I want to become. What can I do

12:13

better tomorrow?"

12:14

I love that. It's

12:14

just about choice. Giovanni, you

12:18

are quite open in your work

12:18

about your childhood. And you

12:24

would describe yourself, I would

12:24

say, as a rather unruly child

12:28

with an enormous amount of pent

12:28

up and unfocused energy. How has

12:34

your life flourished, since you

12:34

started understanding this

12:39

concept of mindful self

12:39

discipline?

12:42

So when I

12:42

was a child, all of this energy

12:45

was expressed as anger. And it

12:45

was very easy to piss me off and

12:50

to get me really angry, and I

12:50

had troubles at school for it.

12:52

So that energy was not

12:52

consciously managed. It was just

12:56

going to the easiest outlet. As

12:56

the years passed, and I started

13:00

doing meditation when I was

13:00

really young - the first time

13:03

when I was 14, but then more

13:03

daily, when I was 15 and 16 - I

13:07

started to get control of this

13:07

energy, little by little, and

13:12

then to channel it towards my

13:12

life goals. So that's what

13:17

allowed me to flourish and not

13:17

to deny that energy; not to

13:21

shame myself for it. But you

13:21

know, that energy, that we all

13:25

have that emotional energy that

13:25

sometimes shows up as anger.

13:28

That is a precious energy that

13:28

can be channelled constructively

13:31

in your life. I like to think of

13:31

self discipline as a way to

13:36

channel that energy.

13:37

Well, when we are

13:37

children - and when we have

13:40

children - we all know what

13:40

anger and undisciplined

13:44

behaviour looks like. Right? The

13:44

tantrums, and the anger, and the

13:48

unruly behaviour. But as an

13:48

adult, that anger will be

13:53

expressed in far more subtle

13:53

ways, I would say. What are some

13:56

of the behaviours that you'd say

13:56

we should look for as adults,

14:00

that are showing us that we are

14:00

lacking in self discipline?

14:04

I think

14:04

it's the tendency to blame

14:08

others and to excuse ourselves.

14:08

So basically, the tendency of

14:13

not taking responsibility for

14:13

our life. It's a sign of

14:17

maturity to take full

14:17

responsibility for our life, for

14:21

our emotions. And that, if we

14:21

are not where we want to be, if

14:25

we're not feeling the way we

14:25

want to be, that doesn't mean

14:27

that there have not been any

14:27

external influences. It doesn't

14:31

mean that the environment

14:31

doesn't matter. It doesn't mean

14:33

that genetics doesn't play a

14:33

role. No, all of these things

14:36

are there. But ownership is

14:36

about taking responsibility that

14:40

I still have a choice. And if I

14:40

choose to take responsibility

14:44

for my life, to take control of

14:44

my life, there is a lot that I

14:48

can do. And when I'm focused on

14:48

what I can do, I am not focused

14:52

on blaming others. When I'm

14:52

focused on blaming others, I'm

14:56

creating a state of being a

14:56

victim. And the victim is

15:00

powerless. The victim is not

15:00

interested in self discipline

15:03

because self discipline tells

15:03

you that you have a power and

15:06

I'm going to teach you how to

15:06

exercise it. And it's the

15:08

opposite of victimisation.

15:10

Giovanni, you

15:10

sort of touched on this earlier

15:13

on when you were talking about

15:13

us feeding our lizard brain. I

15:16

am interested in these internal

15:16

and external obstacles that you

15:20

teach. You say that we have

15:20

internal and external obstacles

15:25

that prevent us from truly

15:25

engaging our self discipline.

15:28

What are some of these internal

15:28

obstacles that we should look

15:31

out for?

15:32

I'd like to say that there are seven main obstacles to self discipline.

15:33

I'm just going to list them.

15:36

Right? And they are

15:36

procrastination, low motivation,

15:41

forgetfulness, distractions,

15:41

excuses, doubts, and fears. So

15:47

these are the four internal

15:47

obstacles that prevent us from

15:51

achieving our goals - and the

15:51

two that most people are really

15:55

familiar with are procrastination and distractions. We live in a world

15:57

that everything around us is

16:02

designed to break your focus -

16:02

everything around us is designed

16:06

to break your discipline -

16:06

because that's how they sell you

16:10

things. They sell you things by

16:10

marketing to your lizard brain.

16:15

Now the lizard brain is a very

16:15

powerful force, and if they can

16:17

market to your lizard brain,

16:17

you're going to buy something.

16:20

So if the whole world around us,

16:20

if our society, was feeding our

16:25

self disciplined self, we would

16:25

be in a very different world.

16:29

But we just look around us and

16:29

almost nobody is disciplined.

16:33

Most people are stressed,

16:33

perhaps even anxious, and cannot

16:37

focus. The attention span is

16:37

becoming shorter and shorter.

16:41

And it's because everything

16:41

around us is not helping us to

16:45

develop focus, awareness,

16:45

discipline, willpower. It's not

16:49

helping. So if we want to have

16:49

more of that in our life, we

16:52

need to do something radically

16:52

different. We need to review the

16:56

role of technology, and

16:56

distractions, and pleasures in

17:00

our life. One of the main

17:00

messages of the system that I

17:04

teach is the 80/20 principle

17:04

with your aspirations. For most

17:10

of us, we have allowed

17:10

distractions to take over our

17:13

life. It has become a

17:13

compulsion. And we are not aware

17:17

of what that's doing to us. If

17:17

you watch a documentary, like

17:21

the Social Dilemma that starts

17:21

opening up your eyes to like,

17:25

what is this doing to me? Like,

17:25

what is this doing to my brain,

17:28

to my capacity to to focus and

17:28

to be well without needing to

17:32

constantly, you know, respond to

17:32

something? So yeah, it's about

17:36

... the 80/20 principle is

17:36

about, you choose to put 80% of

17:42

your time, your energy, your

17:42

attention, on your long term

17:47

goals, on your aspirations; on

17:47

those things that in the moment,

17:52

in your last day on earth, when

17:52

you look back in your life, you

17:57

will feel regretful if you

17:57

haven't achieved them, and you

17:59

feel fulfilled if you have.

17:59

Those are your aspirations. And

18:05

a good life from the point of

18:05

view of mindful self discipline

18:07

is, 80% of our energy goes to

18:07

our aspirations, and 20% of our

18:13

energy goes to pleasures,

18:13

comforts, and distractions. Like

18:17

this, we can have both of them

18:17

in their right weight.

18:23

I love that.

18:23

Because I was wondering if it's

18:25

possible to over-focus on

18:25

discipline. So it seems to me

18:31

that an excess of anything is

18:31

not good for us, and so maybe an

18:34

excess of self discipline could

18:34

lead to unhealthy behaviours

18:38

like rigidity, or inflexibility,

18:38

or obsession, Giovanni. So

18:44

you're talking there about the

18:44

80/20 principle. Is that a way

18:47

for us to balance our desire for

18:47

self control? Or am I totally

18:51

misguided?

18:52

No, this is

18:52

this is exactly it. There is a

18:55

term in the scientific

18:55

literature for what you said,

18:58

and it's called hyperopia.

18:58

Hyperopia is when you're just

19:02

focused on long term goals all

19:02

the time. Right? And you don't

19:07

stop to smell the roses; you are

19:07

not grateful and content for the

19:10

things you have already

19:10

achieved. You're not enjoying

19:12

the small pleasures of life.

19:12

You're just focused on the long

19:15

term goals. And that state does

19:15

not lead to happiness. It may

19:20

lead to productivity, it may

19:20

lead to career progression, and

19:24

it may lead to a lot of money,

19:24

but it does not lead to

19:27

happiness and well being. And

19:27

you know what? For most people,

19:31

if you are unbalanced by having

19:31

too much self discipline, then

19:34

eventually you will burn out and

19:34

you will regret it. And then

19:38

people may end up on the other

19:38

extreme. So too much self

19:43

discipline, unbalanced self

19:43

discipline, is definitely not

19:45

good and that's why I talk about

19:45

the 80/20 principle.

19:49

Well, I love what you're saying there Giovanni because it means that after I've

19:51

completed this recording and

19:54

done some editing, I can go to

19:54

the freezer and eat that ice

19:56

cream. That's great! You touched

19:56

on the science there, and I want

20:01

to explore this a little bit

20:01

more with you. How does self

20:05

discipline lead to happiness

20:05

according to the research? What

20:10

evidence is there that it's

20:10

actually worth our while to

20:14

build greater self control?

20:16

Yeah. So

20:16

there is the famous marshmallow

20:21

experiment, where they put these

20:21

kids in a room, and they had an

20:27

option to eat a marshmallow

20:27

right now, which was in front of

20:31

them, or to wait until the

20:31

researcher comes back for an

20:35

indefinite amount of time. And

20:35

when the researcher comes back,

20:38

if they haven't eaten the

20:38

marshmallow in front of them,

20:40

they would get two marshmallows.

20:40

So basically, that's the test of

20:45

willpower, or self control, or

20:45

self discipline. And some kids

20:50

ate the marshmallow immediately

20:50

or soon after, while other kids

20:54

they were able to resist. And

20:54

they did that by putting the

20:58

marshmallow away, closing their

20:58

eyes, turning around; not

21:01

playing with the fire, not

21:01

playing with the temptation. And

21:04

then they followed up these kids

21:04

after decades to see where they

21:07

were in life. And this study,

21:07

together with other studies show

21:12

that people who have stronger

21:12

willpower - people who have more

21:16

self control and self discipline

21:16

- they end up having better

21:19

health, better emotional well

21:19

being, better relationships.

21:24

They have more fulfilling lives,

21:24

they don't get into trouble, and

21:29

many things like this. So it

21:29

seems that out of all the

21:33

character traits we can have,

21:33

the ability to control our

21:37

impulses, the ability to manage

21:37

that lizard brain, is at the

21:40

core of being able to live a good life.

21:43

Wow, self

21:43

discipline, mindful self

21:46

discipline, really does seem to

21:46

be a form of self care, self

21:51

compassion. It's a gift to

21:51

ourselves if we choose to follow

21:56

that 80/20 principle and make

21:56

sure that we are focusing our

22:00

energy, and our time, and our

22:00

resources into the things that

22:04

are going to leave us feeling

22:04

most fulfilled and uplifted. My

22:09

final question, Giovanni is one

22:09

that I ask every guest on the

22:13

Eudaemonia podcast. Can you

22:13

share a morning reminder with my

22:17

listeners? Now this might be a

22:17

practice, a favourite mantra, an

22:20

affirmation - something that can

22:20

help us become more self

22:25

disciplined in our daily lives.

22:28

So that's a

22:28

big question. I'm going to try

22:31

to be short. So there are three

22:31

pillars of self discipline.

22:36

Aspiration, which is having an

22:36

empowering goal, something that

22:40

you want for yourself. Awareness

22:40

- and that's why it's mindful

22:44

self discipline. And action. So

22:44

in the morning, I like to say

22:49

that, ideally, we would have a

22:49

morning routine that can be

22:53

anything from 30 minutes to two

22:53

hours. And that morning routine

22:56

is something that is fixed every

22:56

day; we do it exactly the same

23:01

way. And that morning routine

23:01

would ideally contain two

23:05

essential components. One is a

23:05

daily meditation practice,

23:10

because meditation is the best

23:10

way to train your awareness.

23:13

Meditation is a practice of

23:13

awareness of mindfulness; it

23:18

makes you more in touch with

23:18

yourself, and that is a

23:22

foundation of self discipline.

23:22

So that is one thing that would

23:27

be there for anyone who cares

23:27

about self discipline. And then

23:30

the other thing is, every

23:30

morning, take a step towards

23:34

your most important goal. So for

23:34

those who want to be healthier,

23:38

and/or be fit, it might be to do

23:38

20 minutes of physical exercise.

23:43

For those who want to write a

23:43

book and share their knowledge,

23:46

their wisdom, with the world,

23:46

you might be, you know, write

23:49

1000 words. For those who want

23:49

to grow in your career, it might

23:53

be to study and develop a new

23:53

skill. Whatever your goal is,

23:57

whatever your aspiration is,

23:57

make sure that every day in the

24:01

morning without fail, you take a

24:01

step forward towards your

24:04

aspiration. And then whatever

24:04

happens the rest of the day, if

24:08

you don't get to work on the

24:08

most important things for you

24:10

for the rest of the day, at

24:10

least every morning, you're

24:13

taking a step forward.

24:15

I love that.

24:15

Giovanni Dienstmann, I was a

24:19

self discipline sceptic, and I

24:19

must say the way that you

24:22

presented though, it is so

24:22

inviting. It feels so gentle,

24:28

and so nourishing. So, how can

24:28

people find out more about you,

24:33

and mindful self discipline?

24:35

So if

24:35

people want to start a

24:38

meditation practice, then you

24:38

can go to www.liveanddare.com.

24:42

There is a free course there

24:42

that they can take. If people

24:47

want to learn about the book, a

24:47

book called Mindful Self

24:52

Discipline, then they can go to

24:52

mindfulselfdiscipline.com and,

24:56

there, they will find

24:56

information about this whole

24:59

system, buy the book, the mobile

24:59

app, and also how they can get

25:04

one-on-one coaching with me if they're interested.

25:06

Well, Giovanni, I

25:06

am just so incredibly grateful

25:09

for you gifting your time and

25:09

very, very thoughtful insights

25:13

today on the podcast. Thanks for

25:13

coming along.

25:15

Thank you very much, Kim. I really enjoyed it.

25:17

The American

25:17

President Harry Truman once

25:19

said, "In reading the lives of

25:19

great men, I found that the

25:23

first victory they won was over

25:23

themselves. Self discipline,

25:28

with all of them, came first."

25:28

You've been listening to the

25:32

Eudaemonia podcast. If you'd

25:32

like to learn more about how to

25:35

live a truly flourishing life,

25:35

please subscribe and check out

25:38

www.eudaemoniapod.com for more

25:38

inspiring episodes. I'm Kim

25:43

Forrester. Until next time, be

25:43

well be kind to yourself, and

25:48

harmonise your life with self

25:48

discipline.