0:00

In Zen Buddhism,

0:00

the concept of Beginner's Mind

0:03

asks us to remove all

0:03

expectations and preconceptions,

0:07

and see the world with

0:07

completely fresh eyes. Imagine

0:12

how life could be if we lived

0:12

with that level of curiosity,

0:16

awe, and amazement. I'm Kim

0:16

Forrester, you're listening to

0:21

the Eudaemonia podcast and today

0:21

we're going to discuss the

0:25

breathtaking beauty of wonder.

0:30

Welcome to Eudaemonia,

0:30

the podcast that is all about

0:33

flourishing. Plug in, relax and

0:33

get ready for the goodness as we

0:38

explore the traits and practices

0:38

that can help you thrive in life

0:42

... with your host Kim

0:42

Forrester.

0:49

Fabiana Fondevila

0:49

is a writer, speaker, ritual

0:53

maker, and teacher helping

0:53

individuals bring forth their

0:56

best selves with wonder and

0:56

enthusiasm. Fabiana is the

1:01

author of several books in both

1:01

Spanish and English, including

1:05

her newly released English

1:05

title, "Where Wonder Lives -

1:09

Practices for cultivating the

1:09

sacred in your daily life". It's

1:14

a delight to be connecting with

1:14

Fabiana today to discuss the

1:18

power of amazement and awe, and

1:18

to learn how a sense of wonder

1:23

can help us flourish in life.

1:23

Fabiana Fondevila it is just

1:28

wonderful to have you here with

1:28

me on the Eudaemonia podcast.

1:31

Thank you for gifting your time

1:31

today.

1:34

Oh, it's my pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

1:37

Fabiana, I do

1:37

imagine that our lives could be

1:41

so much more inspiring, so much

1:41

more joyful, if we would tap

1:47

into this concept of wonder in

1:47

our daily lives. Let me start

1:51

with this question. How would

1:51

you describe an experience of

1:56

wonder? Is it a thought? Is it a

1:56

feeling? Or is it more of a way

2:02

of being?

2:04

That's a

2:04

wonderful question, I would say

2:06

it's all of those and more. But

2:06

mainly for me, it comes up as a

2:11

feeling. And it comes up very

2:11

spontaneously. I do think some

2:15

people for some reason are more

2:15

awe- or wonder-prone, and seem

2:20

to stumble on it all the time.

2:20

But even if that's not the case,

2:25

and what I propose in my book is

2:25

that we can court awe and

2:29

wonder. We can cultivate it, we

2:29

can look for it, we can create

2:32

it. So we don't need to wait for

2:32

it to be spontaneous. But again,

2:36

coming back to your question,

2:36

it's mostly an experience of

2:39

feeling, and it can become a way

2:39

of life.

2:43

You were talking

2:43

there about actively going out

2:46

and inviting wonder into our

2:46

lives. So how do we do that is

2:52

wonder something that we have to

2:52

actually go out and actively

2:56

search for in our environment?

2:56

Or is it perhaps about getting

3:01

still, and clearing the space

3:01

for awe and wonder to bubble up

3:07

into?

3:08

In a way it's

3:08

both. But I would like to say

3:11

that for some people, it's

3:11

easier to go with the second

3:14

avenue that you mentioned,

3:14

because if you are naturally

3:18

awe-prone, as I said at the

3:18

beginning, then maybe just

3:21

sitting still will allow you to

3:21

get in touch with that wondrous

3:25

dimension of our own being, just

3:25

wondering who we are and just

3:29

being alive in this moment today

3:29

can fill you with awe. It

3:34

certainly happens that way for

3:34

me. But I find that when that is

3:38

not something that is just so

3:38

spontaneously available, or it's

3:42

just because some people tend to

3:42

be more in their minds, or they

3:46

have an approach to life that is

3:46

more mediated by their thoughts.

3:50

So if that is the case, it's

3:50

better to find awe practices, or

3:55

practices of wonder, which are

3:55

always through the body as far

3:59

as I have found. So going out

3:59

and looking at the sky. And of

4:03

course, that's also the case for

4:03

me when I'm not so filled with

4:07

inner peace, which of course

4:07

happens a lot when I'm busy or

4:10

worried or you know, filled with

4:10

thoughts that drive me away from

4:15

wonder and into concern and

4:15

small-mindedness. Then I need to

4:19

actively go and look for awe and

4:19

to me, there are many pathways -

4:23

we're going to discuss them

4:23

throughout our talk - but one

4:26

very easy, simple and

4:26

universally available doorway

4:31

into awe is the sky. If you look

4:31

up, if you take the the

4:35

opportunity to look up when you

4:35

when you're walking. One thing

4:39

that happens is when you're self

4:39

absorbed when you're absorbing

4:42

your thoughts, or your worries

4:42

or what you have to do that day,

4:45

you tend to look down.

4:45

Something, something about being

4:48

intensely self-absorbed makes

4:48

you look down into the ground.

4:51

So just looking up, up to the

4:51

sky, to the treetops, even to

4:54

the tops of buildings, will tend

4:54

to break that self absorption

4:58

and put you in touch with the

4:58

world. And it's expansive by

5:03

nature, this, this gesture, and

5:03

wonder is expansive. So what it

5:07

does is it makes you transcend,

5:07

very- I would say almost

5:11

immediately, makes you transcend

5:11

the boundaries of your, what

5:15

some authors call your

5:15

self-encapsulated ego, your,

5:19

your idea of yourself as being

5:19

this very specific kind of

5:23

individual that has nothing to

5:23

do with the world around you. So

5:27

it transcends that. And it

5:27

reminds you in a very embodied

5:30

and immediate way, that you are

5:30

part of this huge, unfathomable,

5:35

immeasurable universe. So,

5:35

wonder really is a doorway into

5:40

connection, and connection, not

5:40

just with our surroundings and

5:44

everything in our lives, but

5:44

with the very mystery that is

5:49

the centre of it all.

5:51

You're describing

5:51

there, Fabiana, the sense of

5:53

wonder, literally, in the sky

5:53

above us. And it makes me think

5:59

that maybe we're really

5:59

misguided in what we believe

6:03

wonder to be. When we talk about

6:03

the things that we define as

6:08

wonderful, "Oh, you know, that's

6:08

a wonderful cake", or "I had a

6:13

wonderful holiday". Do you think

6:13

that we're misguided or perhaps

6:18

mistaken about what wonder truly

6:18

is? And/or do you think that

6:25

maybe we've just forgotten to

6:25

look for wonder at all in our

6:29

lives?

6:30

Yes, I think

6:30

the use of the word wonder has

6:34

become perhaps a little bit

6:34

overextended. Because, we use

6:37

it, we equate it, with something

6:37

that is good or lovely or

6:40

beautiful. And that's not

6:40

necessarily wrong, because many

6:44

instances of wonder include

6:44

beauty, but not everything that

6:48

is beautiful, is wondrous. So if

6:48

I may, I'll give you the

6:51

technical or scientific

6:51

definition of wonder, which is

6:54

what scientists such as Dacher

6:54

Keltner, in Berkeley University,

6:58

and others have found. And they

6:58

describe wonder as the

7:01

perception of something so vast

7:01

- whether it be in size, or

7:05

number, or quality, or dimension

7:05

- so vast that it challenges our

7:09

understanding of life and makes

7:09

us rethink and sort of find a

7:14

bigger filter, because we can't

7:14

fit whatever it is we're seeing

7:18

or feeling or witnessing in our

7:18

ordinary frame of consciousness.

7:22

Of course, many things can do

7:22

that for us. It's not just the

7:25

sky, or the Grand Canyon, or an

7:25

amazing waterfall. It's

7:28

architecture, it's art, it's

7:28

music, it's nature in almost any

7:32

form. It's other people, it's

7:32

ourselves, it's our inner

7:35

worlds, it's our

7:35

accomplishments. But what really

7:39

sets awe apart is the way we

7:39

face, the way we come into

7:44

contact with any of those

7:44

realities. You can be underneath

7:47

a starry sky, or staring at a

7:47

starry sky, and not be

7:51

connecting with awe at all - you

7:51

can be thinking about what you

7:54

have to do tomorrow, and the

7:54

whole immensity of the universe

7:59

will just fly right past you,

7:59

and would do nothing to you. Or

8:02

you can be sitting in front of

8:02

your cup of tea, and just

8:06

feeling awe that you have that

8:06

tea to drink and thinking, where

8:10

perhaps where those leaves were

8:10

cultivated, and who dried them

8:14

and how they got to you, maybe

8:14

across half the world. And that

8:17

can be an experience of awe or

8:17

wonder. So really, it's in the

8:22

quality of your attention, and

8:22

your willingness to enter the

8:26

frame of surprise and

8:26

astonishment. And just wondering

8:31

about ... you know, how wonder

8:31

is also a verb. So when you

8:34

wonder about something, you let

8:34

yourself come into contact with

8:37

the mystery. You don't take it

8:37

for granted. You ask a question

8:40

about it.

8:42

You explain

8:42

there, this concept of looking

8:45

at your cup of tea and feeling

8:45

the wonder in the way that

8:49

beautiful concoction has been

8:49

made and has been brought into

8:53

your life. Truly beautiful. But

8:53

have you been surprised by the

8:58

things that fill you with

8:58

wonder, Fabiana?

9:01

All the time,

9:01

all the time, because I never

9:04

cease to be amazed at how

9:04

extraordinary the ordinary can

9:09

be if you look at it the right

9:09

way, if you stop for a moment to

9:13

look at it with fresh eyes. And

9:13

I think the difference between

9:18

wonder in children and wonder in

9:18

adults, is that wonder in

9:22

children is very spontaneous,

9:22

and it's almost inevitable

9:25

because they're seeing everything for the first time. So all the time they're running

9:27

into things that make them go,

9:30

"Oh, wow, what is that?" You

9:30

know, because it's everything's

9:33

new, everything's fresh. As we

9:33

grow older, of course, things

9:36

become more normal. They become

9:36

naturalised and not every sunset

9:41

is your first sunset. Not every

9:41

cup of tea is your first cup of

9:44

tea. So even though we're going

9:44

to have natural experiences of

9:48

wonder as adults as well, of

9:48

course, we do need to have an

9:52

attitude of wonder. Because that

9:52

allows us to rediscover the

9:57

freshness in the ordinary, in

9:57

what we have seen, perhaps a

10:01

million times. So we need to - I

10:01

don't know if we need to - it's

10:05

wonderful if we can, it's an

10:05

invitation to have a

10:09

willingness, or an attitude, of

10:09

rediscovering everything in our

10:13

lives freshly every day,

10:13

including the people in our

10:16

lives.

10:17

You're saying

10:17

there how children are naturally

10:19

drawn to wonder - so much more

10:19

so than adults, I believe. And

10:24

I'm not sure that it's just that

10:24

children are seeing things for

10:27

the first time. Children don't

10:27

necessarily need things to make

10:32

sense, Fabiana. Do you think

10:32

that wonder makes sense? When

10:38

you are in a state of wonder, or

10:38

awe, or amazement, does it have

10:44

to sort of make sense in that

10:44

moment?

10:47

Not at all,

10:47

not in the ordinary sense of the

10:50

word sense. When we talk about

10:50

something making sense,

10:53

normally, we're talking about a

10:53

rational explanation for things.

10:58

And there is nothing rational

10:58

about awe or wonder because it

11:02

is trans-rational. It's not

11:02

irrational, it's trans-rational.

11:05

What that means is that embodied

11:05

experiences put us directly in

11:09

touch with feelings and

11:09

emotions. And we were not

11:14

constructing explanations for

11:14

them. If you look at a flower,

11:17

and you're amazed by it, what is

11:17

the sense of that flower? There

11:20

is no sense, in the sense of an

11:20

explanation for why it's so

11:23

wonderful. It just is a sense,

11:23

it will open your heart in a

11:28

moment, in a flash of amazement,

11:28

and you don't need to explain to

11:32

yourself, well, it must be that

11:32

colour and that colour and the

11:34

fact that it's so large, none of

11:34

that would make sense.

11:37

Explanations come afterwards, if

11:37

you need to explain it to a

11:40

friend, you might say, well, it

11:40

was this particular shade of,

11:44

you know, whatever, the clouds

11:44

were positioned in such a- such

11:47

a way. But really, that is also

11:47

kind of destroying the

11:51

experience because the

11:51

experience was wordless, awe

11:55

launches us, it thrusts us into

11:55

a state of wordlessness, which

12:01

is a state of nonverbal

12:01

expansion. Having said that,

12:05

though, I want to explain that-

12:05

the word sense, and this is a

12:08

recent discovery for me, it's

12:08

something I've always wondered

12:11

about. And I just recently found

12:11

a paper by these obscure

12:14

researchers - I mean, not

12:14

anybody well-known - about the

12:19

three meanings of the word

12:19

"meaning", and that kind of

12:22

explained it to me. Because

12:22

there's three ways to talk about

12:25

something making sense. You can

12:25

... sense can be, as I was

12:28

saying, a rational explanation.

12:28

In that sense, awe is completely

12:31

outside it. And wonder is

12:31

completely outside a rational

12:34

mindset. It doesn't need it, is

12:34

what I mean. The second one is

12:39

related to purpose. So when you

12:39

say, "Does this make sense?",

12:42

what is the sense of doing such

12:42

a thing, you're talking about

12:45

the future. You're talking about

12:45

something making sense, at some

12:48

point in time. And then there's

12:48

a third dimension, which is the

12:52

significance of something; the

12:52

inherent value of something. So

12:56

you say, you know, my life has

12:56

meaning, or makes sense, not

13:01

because I'm doing something

13:01

special or particular, but just

13:03

because of a person alive in

13:03

this planet, and I have a heart

13:07

that wants to connect. So any of

13:07

us, any of our lives make sense,

13:12

without any rational

13:12

explanation, or any specific

13:15

purpose. So that's the third

13:15

meaning of sense. In that sense,

13:19

if I may, moments of awe and

13:19

wonder make profound sense

13:25

because of the inherent value of

13:25

what we are witnessing. So this

13:29

cup of tea may only last as long

13:29

as I have the time to drink it;

13:35

as long as I drink it. But it

13:35

makes profound sense to me

13:38

nonetheless. It doesn't have to

13:38

be important, or, you know, fit

13:42

into a neat description of my

13:42

world, to make sense in that

13:47

third assumption of the word,

13:47

which is the inherent value of

13:51

the experience.

13:53

Fabiana, I'm sure

13:53

that most of my listeners - in

13:55

fact, I think most of us around

13:55

the world - are a little worn

13:59

out, a little worn down from

13:59

everything that's been going on

14:03

in the world and in our lives.

14:03

And we'd love nothing more than

14:08

to stand on a mountaintop and be

14:08

amazed by what we see below. Or

14:13

look at our cup of tea, right,

14:13

and feel a sense of wonder in

14:17

the way that it's been

14:17

concocted. But do we actually

14:20

have to feel happy, in order to

14:20

find wonder? Is there a way to

14:26

get from wherever we are

14:26

emotionally, and find our way to

14:32

awe and amazement?

14:35

Yes, that is

14:35

an amazing question. Thank you.

14:39

One of the things I love about

14:39

this emotion is precisely that

14:42

you don't need to feel happy to

14:42

connect with it. It is sometimes

14:47

very hard to go from despair or

14:47

confusion or frustration

14:52

directly into happiness. It's

14:52

almost impossible to force

14:55

yourself to feel a sense of joy,

14:55

but it's not at all impossible

15:00

to connect with awe and wonder

15:00

from wherever you are, because

15:04

awe is not even necessarily

15:04

connected to joyous and

15:07

beautiful things. It's also

15:07

connected to terrible things, to

15:11

scary things. So the pandemic

15:11

that we are going through is

15:14

definitely filled with awe of

15:14

both kinds. Because there's the

15:19

wonder of the way we're

15:19

connecting across the world and

15:22

being able to share this

15:22

experience and help each other

15:25

out in a way that our ancestors

15:25

who went through other pandemics

15:29

did not, were not able to do.

15:29

There's a lot of good that has

15:33

come of this, as far as our

15:33

understanding of our lives and

15:37

what is important to them, and

15:37

not taking anything for granted,

15:41

and making more time to be with

15:41

what really matters. So that's

15:45

the wonder-full aspect of of

15:45

what has happened. But at the

15:48

same time, of course, there's

15:48

been so much suffering, and

15:51

still is, and so much pain and

15:51

so much fear and uncertainty.

15:55

And that is also filled with

15:55

awe, not necessarily in a joyous

15:59

way. But, the fact that we ...

15:59

that the entire world is going

16:03

through the same experience just

16:03

does not cease to amaze me. You

16:08

know, lockdown and, and missing

16:08

our loved ones and trying to

16:12

find alternate ways to connect.

16:12

This oneness experience we're

16:15

having is certainly filled with

16:15

awe for me, and wonder. So

16:20

definitely no, we don't need to

16:20

feel joy first as a pathway to

16:25

awe. Rather, very often it

16:25

happens the other way around.

16:28

Awe, or wonder, may not lead us

16:28

directly into joy, but it can

16:32

lead us into contentment, peace

16:32

and acceptance.

16:36

Oh, I love that.

16:36

The big question is, of course,

16:40

why should we care about wonder?

16:40

Our lives are busy, right? They

16:46

are demanding; they are drawing

16:46

so much of our time and our

16:50

resources and our energy. What

16:50

is the benefit of spending time

16:55

and energy focusing on the small

16:55

wonders of our world?

17:00

Well, I would

17:00

answer that with another

17:02

question. What is the sense of

17:02

being alive? I would say, why

17:07

are we even alive, if we're not

17:07

going to notice we're alive and

17:10

enjoy being alive? To me wonder

17:10

is about aliveness. The time

17:15

that we are here is the time

17:15

that we're aware and awake to

17:19

what is happening to us. That is

17:19

the true value of our time. So

17:23

on a very personal level, what

17:23

wonder does is it makes us live

17:27

longer. Because the time that we

17:27

have, is time that we are

17:30

enjoying, experiencing,

17:30

noticing, wondering about. So

17:34

that is a very personal level.

17:34

And the amount of positive

17:39

emotion that comes with that is

17:39

enormous. But then from awe

17:42

research and wonder research, we

17:42

know that this is a very

17:46

prosocial emotion. That means

17:46

that it makes us aware of others

17:49

and it makes us care about

17:49

others, and act with more

17:52

concern towards others. That's

17:52

probably why wonder evolved as

17:56

an emotion in the first place,

17:56

because it's so collective an

17:59

emotion. So, another reason to

17:59

partake in it, another reason to

18:04

cultivate it is because it makes

18:04

us more connected with our loved

18:08

ones, and it improves our

18:08

relationships. And so it's a

18:12

very necessary emotion. It's not

18:12

just pleasant. I seek it out

18:16

because it's my joy. But really,

18:16

it deepens our experience of our

18:21

connections. So that's one

18:21

important reason to try and find

18:25

a little space for awe and

18:25

wonder in your life every day.

18:29

Even if it's just through a

18:29

morning practice and evening

18:32

practice, a time when you stop

18:32

whatever you're doing to connect

18:36

with wonder.

18:38

You were a

18:38

journalist for many years

18:40

dealing with the facts, right?

18:40

Dealing with rationality. How

18:44

has your life flourished since

18:44

you started moving into this

18:48

space of wonder?

18:49

Well, I feel

18:49

that it has led me back to

18:52

myself, to my original self.

18:52

Because I was very curious as a

18:56

child. I was very attracted to

18:56

nature, even though I didn't

18:59

have a lot of it because I was a

18:59

city child. But I loved whatever

19:03

I could find. And when I became

19:03

a journalist, of course, that is

19:07

a ... it's a very lovely

19:07

profession for curious people,

19:10

because it allows us to ask a

19:10

lot of questions and meet a lot

19:13

of people and even travel the

19:13

world. But what started to

19:17

happen gradually, is that the

19:17

facts side of it began to began

19:22

to feel too small, insufficient.

19:22

In fact, I was very briefly a

19:27

war correspondent for a

19:27

newspaper I worked for. I went

19:30

to the to the former Yugoslavia,

19:30

just during the beginning of the

19:35

war that broke up that country,

19:35

through the process where it

19:38

broke up. And I remember that

19:38

the stories I was sending were

19:42

not focusing on the facts of the

19:42

political situation and the news

19:46

of the war, but more on what was

19:46

happening with the people around

19:50

me. And even with the nature

19:50

around me the places that I was

19:52

visiting the small towns, the

19:52

expressions on the people. So

19:56

very naturally, I would say, I

19:56

began to find a language that

20:01

was closer to my heart, which

20:01

had to do with wondering about

20:04

the details of life and not the

20:04

headlines in the newspapers. So

20:08

I began to find a different kind

20:08

of journalism. In fact, I worked

20:12

for the international news

20:12

section. And I started working

20:14

for the magazine, which also

20:14

reflects this idea of focusing

20:19

on a different dimension of

20:19

experience - not so much on the

20:24

on the factual side of things,

20:24

but on the embodied emotional

20:27

side of things. And that just

20:27

grew and grew. And eventually, I

20:32

kind of left journalism and

20:32

began giving workshops, teaching

20:35

workshops, on all of these

20:35

matters, which is what I do

20:38

today.

20:39

Now, I'm sure

20:39

that understanding that

20:41

beautiful space of wonder does

20:41

not stop you from having tough

20:46

days and hard challenges in

20:46

life. Does wonder help you

20:51

through those moments, though,

20:51

in ways that were perhaps more

20:55

difficult without that sense of

20:55

amazement and awe?

20:58

Absolutely,

20:58

yes. Not because it disqualifies

21:02

or diminishes the very genuine

21:02

hardships of life. In fact, the

21:07

most difficult thing we all have

21:07

to deal with, the experience we

21:10

all have to deal with probably

21:10

is death and loss. And I have

21:14

had my share of those, and my

21:14

parents and my sister died in a,

21:18

kind of a relatively short time

21:18

span, many years ago now. But

21:22

when it happened, it all kind of

21:22

happened in a relatively short

21:25

period. And those were, of

21:25

course, very dark days. And

21:30

perhaps in those moments I

21:30

wasn't aware, because I hadn't

21:32

even began this whole journey of

21:32

discovering awe. But now, when I

21:37

look back on the fact that these

21:37

people who are so crucial to my

21:42

life, and are now not physically

21:42

here, at least, that fills me

21:47

with awe. And it's kind of awe

21:47

that I can spend time with. It's

21:51

not something I recoil from. And

21:51

again, it's not that it makes

21:56

you miss somebody less. But it

21:56

does open up a space of the

22:01

heart of mystery, being with the

22:01

heart of mystery, this person

22:05

that was so hugely important -

22:05

is now still hugely important

22:09

but in a different dimension, I

22:09

need to contact them in a

22:12

different dimension, even of

22:12

myself. And, again, this helps

22:17

us to see that life, that

22:17

there's nothing in life, not a

22:21

single moment, that we can take

22:21

for granted. And it helps us

22:24

also to remember that when we're

22:24

going through a difficulty with

22:27

a person in our lives today -

22:27

for example, we, I don't know,

22:30

got upset with them, or they got

22:30

upset with us or we had a

22:32

falling out. If you are a person

22:32

that is prone to wonder, you

22:36

will quickly remember that this

22:36

person is hugely important and

22:40

the fact that they're even there

22:40

at all in your life, and that

22:43

they are a part of your life and

22:43

that they love you or trust you

22:47

is so much bigger than whatever

22:47

just happened. That that really

22:51

does help you overcome whatever

22:51

disagreement or minor setback

22:56

you just had. And this is with

22:56

everything. If you lose a job or

22:59

if you have an accident, in the

22:59

larger frame of awe and wonder -

23:04

which is understanding that

23:04

everything is a mystery - you

23:08

tend to fight less against

23:08

things that happen and sort of

23:12

embrace them as "Oh, look at

23:12

that. So now this is happening.

23:15

So now this is a situation".

23:15

There is an attitude of

23:19

curiosity, and just looking at

23:19

things as if everything was

23:24

unique, and unexpected, and a

23:24

surprise.

23:29

Oh, that sounds

23:29

beautiful and rather liberating,

23:32

Fabiana. Now, my final question

23:32

is one that I asked every guest

23:36

on the Eudaemonia podcast. Can

23:36

you offer a morning reminder,

23:41

this might be a practice, a

23:41

mantra or an affirmation,

23:44

something that can help my

23:44

listeners find more wonder in

23:48

the world around them?

23:49

Sure, my

23:49

difficulty is choosing which one

23:51

because I have so many. Maybe

23:51

I'll share two. One is just to

23:55

simply go outside if you can, if

23:55

you have a balcony, or patio or

24:00

backyard or even into the street

24:00

if you, if you can, and just

24:03

open your arms up towards the

24:03

sky and smile up into the sky.

24:09

And perhaps words come to you,

24:09

or they don't inside your ...

24:13

you don't need to say anything.

24:13

But this gesture of saying good

24:16

morning to the day in an

24:16

embodied way sort of as if you

24:20

were hugging the sky. And then

24:20

perhaps, just to follow that up,

24:23

you can, if you have a situation

24:23

that's troubling you or a

24:26

question that you need answered,

24:26

you might just sort of pose that

24:29

to the sky as a metaphor, you

24:29

know, towards infinity. And then

24:33

when you feel kind of the

24:33

tingling of energy that you will

24:36

feel in your arms after a moment

24:36

of doing that. You bring your

24:39

arms back slowly towards your

24:39

heart as if you're carrying that

24:43

answer, that illumination, that

24:43

inspiration back into your heart

24:48

and you just let your hands sit

24:48

there on your heart for a

24:51

moment. You can even couple that

24:51

with your breath. So you inhale

24:54

and you open your arms up into

24:54

the sky. You let your your

24:58

forehead sort of unfurl, you

24:58

know that you usually have that

25:02

wrinkled look when you're

25:02

worried. So you let it open up

25:04

your forehead, your smile, and

25:04

you bring your arms slowly back

25:08

with whatever energy you've

25:08

received. That's one. And the

25:11

other one is to take a bowl, and

25:11

every morning, you keep it close

25:15

to your bedside, if you can, you

25:15

fill it with water. You just

25:18

simply fill it with water. And

25:18

you can say, "Good morning

25:22

world", or "Thank you for being

25:22

alive", or "This is going to be

25:25

a wonderful day" or whatever

25:25

comes to your mind. And you

25:28

leave that bowl. If you have an

25:28

altar, you put it there, if you

25:31

have a shelf by your bed,

25:31

whatever, you leave it there

25:34

during the day. And then the

25:34

evening, you empty it out. If

25:37

you can onto the earth, if you

25:37

have a pot or garden or balcony,

25:41

you just have or wherever you

25:41

can you empty out the water. And

25:45

as you pour it, you give an

25:45

expression of thanks. You can

25:48

say it out loud, or you can

25:48

silently think it. And so you

25:52

leave that empty vessel, that

25:52

empty bowl by your bed. And as

25:58

you know, ritual intelligence

25:58

goes, your soul will understand

26:01

even without words that, every

26:01

morning, the energy is new and

26:06

fresh, and different, and

26:06

unique. And when you let it go

26:10

at night, you're also saying to

26:10

your soul, whatever happened

26:13

happened. This day is over. I'm

26:13

going to go to sleep with a

26:17

lightness and an emptiness and a

26:17

freshness. So that tomorrow, the

26:22

day can be new. So that is the

26:22

other ritual that I would

26:24

recommend.

26:26

Oh, they are two

26:26

exquisite practices. Thank you

26:29

for sharing them. Fabiana

26:29

Fondevila, your latest book just

26:33

released in English is called

26:33

"Where Wonder Lives - Practices

26:38

for cultivating the sacred in

26:38

your daily life". If people want

26:42

to find the book, if they want

26:42

to learn more about you and the

26:44

message that you have to share

26:44

around wonder, where can they

26:48

find you?

26:49

Well, thank

26:49

you for that question. The book

26:51

is in Amazon. And if anybody

26:51

finds it interesting, and they'd

26:55

like to leave a review, that

26:55

would be super helpful because

26:57

it just came out. So it's just

26:57

making its way out into the

27:00

world. You can find it on Amazon

27:00

or other booksellers. And my web

27:05

page has my name, www.fabianaf

27:05

ndevila.com/english. So you

27:09

rite out my name, and .com/eng

27:09

ish because I'm now creating a E

27:14

glish version of my website. An

27:14

I teach workshops in English

27:20

on all these subjects. So if

27:20

you sign up for my website, you

27:25

ill receive the invitations to

27:25

those workshops. So I'l

27:28

be very happy to see you there

27:28

in my inbox.

27:37

Thank you so

27:37

much. I'm personally so grateful

27:41

to you for gifting your time and

27:41

energy on the podcast here

27:44

today. But also really grateful

27:44

for the work you do and

27:49

amplifying this entire concept

27:49

of wonder and inviting people

27:54

back to the understanding that

27:54

our world is full of amazing,

27:59

sacred and blessed and

27:59

incredibly inspiring things and

28:06

moments. So thank you for all

28:06

you do, Fabiana.

28:09

Thank you,

28:09

Kim. It has been really lovely

28:11

to talk to you. I really enjoyed

28:11

it. And I hope we connect again.

28:15

Thank you so much.

28:16

As the astronaut

28:16

and luna explorer, Neil

28:19

Armstrong said, "Mystery creates

28:19

wonder and wonder is the basis

28:24

of man's desire to understand".

28:24

You've been listening to the

28:29

Eudaemonia podcast. If you'd

28:29

like to learn more about how to

28:32

live a truly flourishing life,

28:32

please subscribe. Check out

28:36

www.eudaemoniapod.com for

28:36

ore inspiring episodes, or come

28:41

oin me on Insta

28:41

ram @iamkimforrester. I'm

28:46

Kim Forrester. Until next time

28:46

be well, be kind to yourself

28:51

and find joy in life's li

28:51

tle wond