0:02

Welcome To Everyday Wellness Podcast I'm

0:04

your host Nurse Practitioner Cynthia Thurlow.

0:06

This podcast is designed to educate

0:08

and power and inspire you to

0:10

achieve your health and wellness goals.

0:12

My goal and intent is to

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provide you with the best contact

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and conversations from leaders in the

0:19

health and wellness industry each week

0:21

and impact over a million lives.

0:29

At. The honor of connecting with

0:31

Doctor Nicole Le Para, she is

0:34

known as the Holistic Psychologist. She

0:36

received training and clinical psychology at

0:38

Cornell and has a hugely popular

0:40

Instagram account. She also the author

0:42

of multiple books in the South

0:45

Help Space including How To Do

0:47

The Work How To Be The

0:49

Love You Seek which her most

0:51

recent work and she is a

0:54

Psychologist to Work has really been

0:56

instrumental in my own self evolution

0:58

from a personal development. Space Today

1:01

we spoke at length about.

1:03

The. Impact of dysfunctional patterns we

1:06

see in childhood or unquote.

1:08

We accept what we witness.

1:10

Explanations. Around the crisis of

1:13

faith in explaining the Dark Knight

1:15

of the Soul inner child archetypes,

1:17

the role of shame triggers them

1:19

regression as well as generational beliefs

1:21

and systemic or beliefs. The. Role

1:23

of. Trauma, the impact of heart,

1:25

brain coherence and heart rate variability

1:27

in tips for being presence in

1:30

our bodies to help process emotions.

1:32

This is certainly one of my

1:34

favorite Recent conversations. Dr. Le Paris

1:36

work has been hugely instrumental in

1:39

my personal development journey and I

1:41

know you will enjoy this conversation

1:43

as much as I did recording

1:45

at. Well.

1:50

Doctoral a parrot. Such an honor to connect

1:53

with you. I'm a huge fan of your

1:55

work and I also a huge fan of

1:57

personal development. I think that it has been

1:59

instrumental. In my evolution, not just as

2:01

a clinician, that as a mother as. A

2:04

wise and so I really applied.

2:06

the fact that you make so

2:08

much information so accessible and I

2:10

literally last week was going through

2:12

some of your clinton on Instagram.

2:14

It there was something that you

2:17

posted on Instagram, you or your

2:19

team and you were talking about

2:21

bare minimum partners Bare minimum father's

2:23

I had a distant disconnected. Father

2:26

and you stated we accept.

2:28

What we witness Can we start the

2:30

conversation there? Because I think for so

2:32

many of us we spend a lot

2:34

of our life time trying to unravel

2:36

the lessons. Whether they were. Director and

2:39

derived that we receive from. Our family

2:41

members and this one hit me really

2:43

hard because as someone who grew up

2:45

with a very well meaning, well intentioned,

2:47

That distant, disconnected parent figure that really

2:49

hit me hard is it took me

2:52

a long. Time to figure out what

2:54

I deserved in a relationship. And how

2:56

to interact with men because I didn't

2:58

really have a great role model at

3:00

home. And when you're working with your

3:03

patience and talking about these things, what

3:05

is some of the beginning understanding of

3:07

how. We view our world and how we

3:10

view our relationships with are significant others think

3:12

it does tenant going back to a beautiful.

3:14

Piece. Of wisdom that you just stokes and cel

3:16

which. Is right we repeat what we

3:18

witnessed I mean and added nary

3:20

repeat what we experience and it

3:22

actually took a more recent and

3:24

I see more recent in the

3:27

past else size plus years evolution

3:29

in my even understanding of human

3:31

psychology east to truly understand the

3:33

power of what we mean when

3:35

we. Say that because the me a can

3:37

coming. From a very traditionally train system in

3:39

clinical psychology. all I had heard all I

3:41

learned about. Honestly, much of what I

3:43

write even in self help being a

3:45

ever student and someone. Is always curious

3:48

in learning, understanding things in different ways.

3:50

I had it comes. To the realization or

3:52

what I thought was a realization that wow the

3:54

mind that we have this is. very powerful function

3:57

of our brain is what makes us

3:59

human It has all of the power

4:01

to create all the change that we

4:03

want to see for decades in my

4:05

field kind of profess physical standard cognitive

4:07

behavioral therapy which is built on

4:09

that foundational point exactly right change

4:12

the way we think change Ultimately

4:14

how we feel and then what we do which is

4:16

of course when I then had my private practice with

4:18

many of the clients We're coming into

4:20

my office to do to change in

4:22

some way to relieve suffering and several

4:24

years into my practice It took me

4:26

feeling quite disempowered not really feeling like

4:28

I was being effective working with clients

4:30

who in my opinion were speaking of

4:32

Parent figures not only well-meaning very

4:34

insightful yet would continue to

4:37

repeat Dysfunctional patterns

4:39

that really didn't serve them So for

4:41

me it really began starting at a

4:43

low point wondering why am I be

4:45

why am I feeling so disempowered as a

4:47

clinician? Why am I seeing so many of the

4:49

same habits and patterns in myself as an individual?

4:51

Why are we all struggling and I really

4:54

landed on? Huge new information

4:56

that located now for me not just the

4:58

mind as the point of all control and

5:00

all power the body Foundationally, so

5:03

even going back to this idea We

5:05

repeat what we witnessed what we're really talking

5:07

about here is the whole world of our

5:09

subconscious mind And I think many listeners might

5:11

be familiar. We throw this word around

5:14

a lot now, which is autopilot I think many

5:16

of us are coming to the realization that we

5:18

these habits and they kind of carry us through

5:20

our day and much Of us aren't paying much

5:22

attention Really or feel like we have much control

5:25

or choice really to change those habits and when

5:27

we really understand that yes We are very

5:29

habitual creatures. We will rely on that

5:31

subconscious autopilot So our body thinks in protection

5:33

right to keep ourself in those familiar habits

5:35

and patterns so that we can predict what

5:38

happens next keep us, you know

5:40

coping with whatever it is that happens next and Ultimately,

5:43

it is that power that subconscious

5:45

mind those repeated habits again ground

5:47

it first and foremost in those

5:49

earliest Experiences where we are

5:51

quite literally a little sponge learning

5:53

learning how to relate to ourselves

5:56

I mean a childhood is really when we want to talk

5:58

specifically about the impact especially

6:00

in our relationships, childhood

6:02

and what we were made to think

6:05

directly or indirectly about ourselves ultimately becomes

6:07

what we believe in adulthood to be

6:09

true about ourselves, about our role in

6:12

relationships, about our place in the world

6:14

entirely. In childhood the lack or presence

6:16

of attunement and the actual ability of

6:18

those caregivers to not only be physically

6:20

present but to be emotionally present to

6:23

us, that directly will impact in adulthood

6:25

how we navigate our own emotional

6:27

world, how able we are to

6:29

self soothe, to gain soothing support

6:31

or comfort in our relationships, to

6:33

even share with other people aspects

6:35

of our emotional world. And then

6:37

finally but absolutely not lastly though I

6:39

think most impactfully the way in which

6:41

we had to show up in those earliest

6:44

relationships to fit into the environments, to keep

6:46

ourselves as safe as possible. I know listeners

6:48

might be like well my environments weren't

6:50

safe in childhood. We began to

6:52

adapt to those circumstances that ultimately

6:54

that becomes how we show up in

6:56

adulthood, how we show up for ourselves

6:59

and ultimately how we show up in

7:01

our relationship. So I think simplifying and

7:03

understanding that the subconscious mind is playing

7:05

a role, that's why many of us

7:07

are feeling stuck, that's why many of

7:09

us maybe in our relationships

7:11

are recreating or repeating maybe

7:13

habits and patterns or dysfunctional hurt

7:15

that absolutely didn't serve us. And

7:18

ultimately understanding or having that awareness

7:20

is in my opinion what allows

7:22

us to actually begin to create change including

7:24

the body on our journey, showing up, learning

7:26

how to embody new choices in terms of

7:29

how we show up in the world and

7:31

actually I think begin to become unstuck in

7:33

the way so many of us are looking

7:35

to. Yeah it's really interesting. I always say

7:37

that five years ago I am not the

7:39

person I was prior to this lengthy hospitalization

7:41

that I had five years ago and you

7:44

speak about in your work, The Dark Night

7:46

of the Soul and so that

7:48

really for me typifies there was

7:50

a Cynthia before this hospitalization and

7:52

a Cynthia after this crisis of

7:54

faith, this disruption and why this

7:56

is relevant to what you just

7:58

said is that for me I

8:00

think I was on autopilot for a long

8:02

time in my life. A long,

8:05

long time, I was successful from

8:07

the exterior. I do have a healthy marriage.

8:09

I have an even better marriage now. I

8:11

have a healthy relationship with my kids. It's

8:14

even better now. But that impetus of what

8:16

happened in February of 2019 changed everything for

8:18

me because it's almost like it ripped everything

8:20

away and I was in a

8:22

position as a human being where

8:24

I had to deal with my stuff that I was

8:27

ignoring. I think this is

8:29

so powerful that for many of

8:31

us, we just continue to subjugate

8:33

what's kind of trying to

8:36

come up and erupt and force us to

8:38

move, force us to make changes, force us

8:40

to deal with things. I jokingly but not

8:43

jokingly say I'm not the person I was

8:45

before February 17, 2019.

8:48

What came after that hospitalization has changed

8:51

everything for me. It really was the

8:53

Phoenix rising from the ashes. That's my

8:55

perception. My husband would say the same

8:58

thing. My close friends understand that. But

9:00

let's spend some time talking about when

9:03

we have these moments in our lives. I know

9:05

you had one as well and you probably look

9:07

back and you're like, this is the old Nicole.

9:09

This is the new Nicole. But these

9:11

pivotal moments in our lives, if we take

9:13

advantage of the opportunity to really be

9:15

circumspect, to really consider are we in

9:18

a position where we're truly happy? Is

9:21

our adaption to our environment, is it really

9:23

healthy? Is it serving us well? How do

9:25

you go about explaining this dark night of

9:27

the soul? When you talk about you've experienced

9:30

it and I always say that I am

9:32

a mere person compared to where I was

9:34

before to where I am now. Now I'm

9:36

fully living the way that I was supposed

9:38

to live and creating a lot of boundaries

9:41

and a lot of changes in my personal

9:43

life that have really affirmed for me

9:45

that I'm stepping into a different role

9:47

in my life. What I would consider

9:49

to be, this is the authentic person

9:51

I was always meant to be but

9:53

didn't realize that. Thank you, Cynthia, for

9:56

sharing. I think that really beautifully illustrates,

9:58

in my opinion, what we mean. when

10:00

we, again another common word I think has been

10:02

throwing around which is dark night of the soul.

10:04

Like what is that? What does that mean? And

10:06

I think really that is moments in time

10:08

and I'm wording it that way because I

10:11

think some of us have this pathway right

10:13

where there is the thing that happens, the

10:15

hospitalization, the accident, the sickness, the loss, the

10:17

ending of a relationship, the death of someone.

10:20

I mean there's a million more right? Something cataclysmic

10:22

happens and my life kind of

10:24

becomes an upheaval because what a dark night

10:26

really is whether it's that moment in time

10:28

where the thing happened or as was the

10:31

case for me, more of many moments

10:33

in time. What really symbolizes the

10:35

dark night of the soul is the

10:37

beginning because for many of us it

10:39

is a process of questioning, of kind

10:41

of snapping out of that autopilot whether

10:44

because something happened and snapped us out

10:46

of it or whether or not things

10:48

you know that autopilot kind of

10:50

contributed to an accumulation of

10:52

feelings that then got to the point

10:55

of erupting outward similarly like the way

10:57

you described the hospitalization for me and

10:59

falling into that kind of latter category

11:01

just to describe what I mean externally.

11:03

For all intents and purposes anyone in

11:05

my life would think even small voice

11:07

in my own mind would have wondered

11:09

as I was nearing my 30s

11:11

when for me it was a lot

11:13

of low energy, a lot of deep

11:15

sadness, a lack of fulfillment just generally

11:17

overall to the point that I was

11:20

spent time fantasizing even, running away, leaving

11:22

and at the timing it happened, it

11:24

was not so surprising how they understand

11:26

my own conditioning. It not so shockingly

11:29

happened when I had reached kind of

11:31

the completion of for me what had

11:33

been a lifelong list of achievements, achievements

11:35

that again based on my own childhood

11:38

experiences I had gained such a sense

11:40

of value in succeeding. For me

11:42

it was academic, first it was athletically, then

11:44

it became academically, I marched on, I got

11:46

my doctorate, I opened up a successful practice,

11:48

I had a relationship, I was living very

11:50

near to my family which was important to

11:52

me at the time so right I had

11:55

achieved all of the things. Internally here I

11:57

was fantasizing about running away from what I

11:59

just spent. decades of my life trying

12:01

to create. And I share my aspect

12:03

of the journey because I didn't have

12:05

that thing from the outside kind of

12:07

shake me awake and I spent a

12:09

period of time before I understood what

12:11

was actually happening feeling not empowered or

12:13

even curious about this new

12:15

shedding evolution kind of stage I'm going

12:18

to move into actually feeling shameful of

12:20

how I was feeling until I understood

12:22

again what was happening was a byproduct

12:25

of all of this conditioned way I was

12:27

functioning in the world driving myself toward achievement

12:29

and what I was doing was living

12:31

very disconnected from my deeper self my

12:34

authentic ones my authentic needs quite often

12:36

I was surpassing my energetic limits

12:38

my emotional limits just to keep myself

12:40

pushing forward in the to-do list or

12:42

you know to achieve that next milestone.

12:45

So again Dark Knight of the Soul

12:47

I think happens looks different happens at

12:49

a different time contextually for each of

12:51

us but again if we really understand

12:53

what it is it's when we start

12:55

to become aware of that disconnect because

12:58

the reality of it was I was

13:00

marching along in that very conditioned way

13:02

seeking achievement so I thought trying to

13:04

seek some sense of worthiness until

13:06

I did get to that point

13:08

of exhaustion because as we all

13:10

know when we're looking to define

13:12

ourselves based on external things to

13:14

rely solely on external things even

13:16

other people to meet our needs and

13:19

not show up as a participant or

13:21

a co-creator in our life experience we

13:23

are going to end up feeling to

13:25

some extent disempowered and disconnected ultimately from

13:27

who we are and then ultimately it

13:29

just takes some time before again whether

13:31

it's the thing outside of us or

13:34

just all of the overwhelming feelings inside

13:36

of us come bubbling to the surface

13:38

and ultimately cause us to question or

13:40

at least begin by seeing a little

13:42

bit clearly how conditioned ultimately that we

13:44

were operating which invites us then on

13:46

a journey to begin to reconnect with

13:48

who we really are what we really

13:50

want and for a lot of us that

13:52

begins with not shaming ourselves for not knowing

13:55

first just becoming curious because I think anytime

13:57

we understand the word that keeps coming up

13:59

is adaptation adaptations have happened for

14:01

a reason. There's nothing to be shameful

14:03

about what for many of us are

14:05

becoming present to all of these conditioned

14:07

ways, that we are reacting, being in

14:09

the world. They are not shameful. They

14:12

at one time served a purpose, a

14:14

survival-based purpose actually. Well, I think it's

14:16

so important as someone, you know, we

14:18

both share this overachieve and inner child

14:20

archetypes that you talk about in work.

14:23

And I think for many of us,

14:26

it derives from, and correct me if

14:28

I'm wrong, it derives from our experiences

14:30

as a child. And for me, I grew up

14:32

in a very chaotic, verbally, physically

14:35

abusive environment. And for me,

14:37

if I was achieving, then I

14:39

was left alone. And that's what I learned,

14:41

to be invisible, achieve, and

14:43

then I could exist in a fairly, I

14:45

want to use the term fairly because I

14:47

had both of my parents, although they were

14:50

divorced when I was seven. Gosh, I'm sharing

14:52

a lot in this podcast today. Even though

14:54

I grew up with my parents being divorced,

14:56

they were both very eruptive. And so for

14:59

me, I learned very early on, how did

15:01

I manage and mitigate their behavior was to

15:03

achieve, so they left me alone. And then

15:05

a lot of my behavior, which I'm

15:08

now realizing is a byproduct

15:10

of wanting to keep things as

15:12

calm and level-headed as possible. So

15:15

when we talk about this inner child archetype,

15:17

this is a byproduct of the environment we

15:19

grow up in, in order to find ways,

15:21

as you mentioned, to be safe, to be

15:23

able to navigate our way in a way

15:25

that allows us to be functional. And do

15:27

you see for individuals that are kind of

15:30

aligned with this inner child archetype, can you

15:32

be both an overachiever and a rescuer? Can

15:34

you be multiple types of these archetypes? But

15:36

it feels like for me, when I was

15:38

reading your work, that was the one that

15:40

stood out. I was like, Oh my gosh,

15:42

this makes so much sense as to why

15:44

I turned out personally, why is the way that I

15:47

am and how freeing it is to not

15:49

be as much in alignment with that

15:52

overachieving. It's like now I do things

15:54

because it's what I enjoy as opposed

15:56

to the external validation. So when we

15:58

kind of think about childhood. it's just

16:00

kind of going back really generally. Humans

16:02

are born in a state of complete

16:05

dependency. We are born developmentally immature.

16:07

Our brain and our body is growing. Our

16:09

nervous system is actually developing up through our 20s. And

16:12

so that is so significant because that

16:14

means that we are totally reliant

16:17

on that environment to keep us

16:19

physiologically surviving, which is where all

16:21

of these adaptations begin. Because we

16:24

quite literally can't leave. We can't

16:26

keep ourselves alive on our own.

16:28

We're too immature, right? We,

16:30

our only option in those moments

16:33

is to do two things. Attune,

16:35

because we are very attuned, energetically

16:37

sensitive creatures from childhood. We can

16:39

attune to then our environment. And

16:41

all of this is happening outside

16:43

of our awareness, even childhood. We

16:45

attune to our environment and then we can find

16:48

the ways in which we can fit in.

16:50

And so I really appreciate you sharing because

16:52

when we think about these kind of archetypal

16:54

ways of being, the example ways of being,

16:56

and I give several in the book. You mentioned

16:58

two, overachiever, caretaker, there's an underachiever,

17:00

there's a yes person, there's several

17:02

others in there. And a couple

17:04

things I think are important to

17:07

understand because very interestingly, there's different

17:09

pathways in creation of the archetype,

17:11

right? Thank you for sharing your

17:13

example, right? Having this kind of

17:15

explosive, emotionally explosive, those are just

17:17

my words, environment around you in childhood,

17:19

right? If you were able to just kind of

17:21

keep in line, keep succeeding, keep your head down,

17:23

you were able to keep yourself safe. You

17:26

become an overachiever as a result of

17:28

it, right? That's how you created safety,

17:30

security, and probably even a sense of

17:32

worthiness, right? Feeling good about yourself because

17:34

you're not now on the receiving end

17:36

of this explosive behavior, emotionally explosive behavior.

17:38

My relationship though, just kind of using

17:40

an example, I mean, my childhood relationships,

17:42

there wasn't a lot of emotional overwhelm

17:44

outside of just being stressed and fearful

17:47

of life in general, but there wasn't

17:49

explosive anger, anything like that in my

17:51

home that I was avoiding. For me,

17:54

there was an absence of connection, almost

17:56

an absence of feeling unless we were joined

17:58

in shared worry about something. So

18:00

that I learned different

18:02

environment, similar adaptation, I

18:05

saw very early on that I was gifted

18:08

naturally, academically and athletically and I saw

18:10

that from a very young age and

18:12

those were the moments where my mom

18:14

was able to be most present, able

18:16

to cheer me on, able to validate

18:18

me. So I became an overachiever, not

18:21

in presence of all this emotional overwhelm, actually

18:23

an absence because those were the moments where

18:25

I got some version of connection where you're

18:27

trying to avoid being in the spotlight to

18:29

some extent. I'm trying to get the spotlight

18:31

and we both still become. So then to

18:33

answer your question, I just want to use

18:35

that as an example because the common questions

18:37

I do get are, is there only one

18:40

pathway? What leads to becoming an overachiever? And

18:42

I just use that as an example, you

18:44

and I as an illustration because different circumstances

18:46

lead to this archetypal way of coping and

18:48

then to specifically answer your question, yes, we

18:50

can see different aspects of these

18:52

different conditioned ways of being. So

18:54

maybe in some moments, you're an

18:56

overachiever. In other relationship or other

18:59

contexts, you go into more of a hype,

19:01

use that hypervigilance right now, what can I achieve?

19:03

How can I show myself worthy in that way?

19:05

You might channel that to who can I take care

19:07

of? Who needs me? How can I

19:09

define my worthiness based on showing up

19:11

now in service of someone else? So

19:14

archetypes are typically given and why I

19:16

offer them are just for general examples,

19:18

I think many of us can see

19:20

aspects of our conditioned ways of being

19:22

in several, if not more

19:24

of these conditioned archetypes but they are by

19:26

no means mutually exclusive and then to answer

19:29

a question if anyone has it running in

19:31

their heads, can they change? Can we change?

19:33

Absolutely. The goal of all of

19:35

my work is to first become present to what

19:37

is this impact of our conditioning? How is it

19:39

that we're defining our worthiness or feeling like we

19:41

have to habitually show up to secure these

19:44

connections because that's what's still going on in

19:46

our mind as if we're back in childhood.

19:48

However, can I create space in my current

19:50

moment now as an adult to unlearn

19:52

some of that conditioning, I think appealing

19:54

the onion back and to create some

19:56

maybe exploratory curious space like I mentioned

19:59

earlier to begin. discover what it

20:01

is that we want, how it needs

20:04

to be. And again, I'm intentionally focusing

20:06

time here because I think a lot of us,

20:08

especially as adults, we shame ourselves. Well, we don't

20:10

immediately know, oh my gosh, I'm so conditioned. I'm

20:12

aware of this now. I am the overachiever who's

20:14

always seeking the goal post or I am the

20:16

caretaker who is always looking for the person in

20:19

need. Okay, well, I don't want to be that

20:21

anymore. So now what? And that's where I think

20:23

another wash of shame comes in because the reality

20:25

for a lot of us is we don't yet

20:27

know now what. We spent so much time operating

20:29

in this conditioned way. I know when I started

20:31

to explore, well, what do you want, Nicole? If

20:33

it was something as simple as to eat for

20:35

dinner or to spend the entirety of your Saturday

20:37

or to do for the next six months of

20:39

your life in terms of your career, I was

20:41

at a loss initially to answer

20:44

those questions because I had spent all

20:46

of my time and focus not on

20:48

myself for so long. So just emphasizing

20:51

as always the process of what I can so

20:53

quickly kind of share. So here are the steps,

20:55

A and B, and become conscious and break those

20:57

habits, but I always just like to give a

20:59

little bit more transparently of the behind the

21:01

scenes of what that actually looks like, why

21:04

it is so difficult, and ultimately the

21:06

work, if you will, this embodiment practice

21:08

of keeping ourselves committed to making new

21:10

choices, even when it goes against these

21:13

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21:15

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21:17

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21:19

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my patients and clients. Well

25:55

and I think that word of

25:57

practice is so important because even

25:59

though I am very committed to personal

26:01

development and doing the work. And my husband

26:03

and I are very much on the same

26:06

page. He's an engineer, so he's very left

26:08

brained. So sometimes, you know, when we're talking

26:10

about feelings, it kind of puts him outside

26:12

his comfort zone. But I always say this

26:14

is what's so important. But I think that

26:16

word practice, it helps people understand

26:19

it's not like you just always move forward.

26:21

Sometimes I will get triggered or I will

26:23

get upset about something. And there's nothing more

26:25

powerful than spending time with your extended family

26:28

to get you triggered. You think you've done

26:30

the work and I love my family. I

26:32

have a wonderful family. Let me be very

26:34

clear. But there are opportunities every time that

26:36

we're together. Well, sometimes say to my husband,

26:39

I think I took 20 steps forward and

26:41

10 back in like an hour. How

26:43

is that possible? So how do we

26:45

go from moving forward in terms of

26:47

investing in our personal development? And then

26:50

you have that, you know, that moment

26:52

that will just bring you back to being

26:54

10 years old. It happened to me at

26:56

Christmas with my brother and my kids got

26:58

to witness me getting triggered in front of

27:00

my whole family with my brother. And it

27:02

was just so interesting. I was trying to

27:05

look outwardly at what was going on to

27:07

say like, what's going on here for you?

27:09

Because it's really not your brother teasing you.

27:11

It's something deeper than that. So how does

27:13

that happen for us? We're in an instant,

27:15

we almost regress. I hate to use that

27:17

word. We regress in our personal development journey,

27:19

our practice, by one instantaneous like trigger or

27:22

instance or comment someone makes. I

27:24

can perhaps if we define regress

27:26

as a return to earlier

27:28

development, maybe that might make

27:30

that word a little more

27:32

palpable because I actually wholeheartedly agree

27:35

even physiologically, neurobiologically, I should say

27:37

that is exactly what it is

27:39

that happens and even kind of bringing

27:42

this beautifully full circle. When I learned

27:44

about the body and the subconscious and

27:46

kind of everything I described earlier, I

27:48

was now invited into the possibility that

27:51

the reason why we can't just affirm

27:53

our way, think our way to new

27:55

ways of feeling and ultimately being is

27:57

because of how neurobiologically wired these habits.

28:00

and patterns are. They're not just neural

28:34

and I especially didn't locate what we are

28:38

doing. That emotions and

28:40

the ability to tolerate emotions,

28:42

to become emotionally mature, emotionally resilient,

28:44

whatever the language it is, to be able

28:47

to deal with the emotionality of life means

28:49

being present, not just will powering,

28:51

willing our emotions away, trying to

28:54

think our way past the way

28:56

we're feeling. It actually means physiologically

28:58

our nervous system, being able

29:00

to tolerate those emotional energies.

29:03

And again, so the reason why I say

29:05

it is kind of a regression in reality,

29:07

as we're now going about life in

29:09

adulthood, we are not objective witnesses,

29:12

if you will, of the environment

29:14

around us. We couldn't get a

29:16

group of people in a room

29:18

to agree on the objectivity of

29:20

happening because what will happen is

29:22

everyone you'll hear will share their subjective

29:24

experience because we're all filtering, coloring the

29:26

world, seeing even certain aspects, right? What

29:28

might be highlighted to me about a

29:31

certain experience might not even come across

29:33

your attention. You might be noticing a

29:35

different aspect of the experience

29:38

because all of it again is colored

29:40

by our past experiences. We

29:43

are almost anticipating and seeing

29:45

similarity. That's what projection or

29:48

transference, these words that we use in the field are. Really

29:50

what that means is in what's happening

29:52

now, something is activating

29:54

a feeling, a physiological sensation

29:57

inside of me that's quite

29:59

similar. not exactly the same as

30:01

an earlier experience, right? Maybe when

30:03

I was abandoned physically or emotionally by mom

30:06

or dad or maybe when there was that

30:08

too much emotion and I was feeling completely

30:10

overwhelmed and that's it's bringing me back in

30:12

time. And so the reason why we do

30:15

act then so regressed, sometimes

30:17

even immature and again, I'm not saying this prerogatively,

30:19

I'm saying this in terms of earlier

30:22

emotional state is because

30:24

in that moment we are

30:27

reacting as if we are

30:29

back in time. Similarly overwhelmed

30:31

and at the same time under

30:33

supported because the large majority

30:35

of us didn't have even those of us who

30:37

had well-meaning caregivers. If in their

30:39

bodies, in their nervous systems, they

30:41

weren't able to deal with their own

30:43

stressful or upsetting emotions, then they weren't

30:46

going to be able to give us

30:48

the safety and the security that we

30:50

need to eventually over time learn how

30:52

to regulate, self-regulate or to reach out

30:54

for the support that we need to

30:56

co-regulate with others when we're upset. So

30:58

without that level of attunement in childhood,

31:00

what I now see is a large

31:03

majority of adults who lack

31:05

stress or emotional resilience.

31:07

So in those emotionally overwhelming moments

31:10

where something brings us

31:12

back in time to a hurtful,

31:14

traumatizing, overwhelming past experience, I'm going

31:16

to rely on at that time

31:18

what worked which for a lot

31:20

of us looks like screaming

31:23

and yelling and throwing an adult-sized temper

31:25

tantrum, often saying and doing hurtful things

31:27

that we don't mean. For others, it

31:29

might look like ignoring, like kind of

31:31

fleeing the stress, ignoring it, putting your

31:33

head in the sand, maybe actually picking

31:35

up your phone and ignoring someone who's

31:37

trying to share something upsetting with you,

31:39

kind of distracting yourself away. It might

31:41

look like as I spent decades of my

31:43

life just shutting down completely. You're there physically, you're

31:45

mentally, I call it my spaceship. You're a million

31:47

miles away, you're shut down, you're numb, you're there

31:50

in body but not much else. And so I

31:52

really want this is again the power of the

31:54

subconscious that I was describing earlier I think in

31:56

a beautiful real life example and the reality of

31:58

it is we do go back in time.

32:00

So two things are important. How do we

32:02

navigate that? First, we don't shame it. The

32:05

reason why I went into this behind the

32:07

scenes physiological, you know, kind of acknowledgement of

32:09

what's happening so that hopefully in the next

32:11

moment where that happens and you tune back

32:13

in, whether you're mid saying or doing the

32:15

thing that you want to avoid doing is

32:17

I know I can be in my mind's

32:19

eye and things are coming in my mouth

32:22

and I'm like, why are you saying this Nicole? This is not

32:24

what you mean right now. Or sometimes it

32:27

happens a little later where after the fact, you're

32:29

like, Oh gosh, what just happened? Right? Why did

32:31

all of that just happen? And I think if

32:33

we have the understanding of why it happened, we

32:35

can maybe relieve some of that shame and hurt.

32:37

And to speak to your point about

32:40

family, when we go back to family, the environment

32:42

for a lot of us, maybe even the

32:44

same home where these habits and patterns were

32:46

created, or at least the same dynamics with

32:48

the people, right? The ways that we interact

32:50

that for a lot of us is why

32:52

it's so easy on holidays on visits home

32:54

that we do return to that more regressed

32:56

state because the similarity of what's happening now,

32:58

chances are it is quite similar. There probably

33:00

are the same dynamics at play. And to

33:02

speak to your point, it's probably not about

33:04

the teasing or the mess that's left out

33:06

or all of the things on the surface,

33:08

someone not giving you a welcome hello when

33:10

you arrive, whatever it is that we think

33:12

it is, what it really is

33:15

is something deeper. And typically from

33:17

much earlier in our childhood, which is again, why

33:19

it's important not to shame it because those

33:21

emotions and physiologies are very real

33:23

in the moment, which is why

33:25

we can't just shame away that

33:27

reaction in the future, which is

33:29

why again, bringing back the body,

33:31

we have to in those moments,

33:33

learn, increase our window for stress

33:35

tolerance, learn how to be with

33:37

our upset without becoming reactive in

33:40

the habitual way that we always

33:42

are so that we can remain responsive.

33:44

And I think this again goes to a

33:46

question comment concern I often get when people are

33:48

on their healing journeys and they're like, Oh gosh,

33:51

these habits are still there. Why? Why am I

33:53

still acting in this way? Why am I still

33:55

screaming and yelling, acting shamefully or whatever it is?

33:57

And again, going back to where I started this

33:59

script because neurobiologically wired is

34:01

why because we

34:04

can't go away overnight and they're not

34:07

going to go away until you lay down some new

34:09

neural networks of new habits so that

34:11

you don't have to rely on those anymore. And again I think

34:13

we have that awareness, we can be

34:15

a little more compassionate to ourselves

34:17

and also then remain committed to

34:20

doing that more somatic or body-based work because

34:23

developing that stress and emotional tolerance that I

34:25

just acknowledge in my belief at least we

34:27

all need to means embodying, teaching ourselves how

34:29

to deal with slightly more and more

34:31

stress and allow

34:34

our body to come back into calm is

34:36

an embodiment practice. Well I think it's

34:38

as important as saying that it's

34:40

you know as we're getting older we need to

34:42

maintain and build muscle. We need to think about

34:44

it as a skill that's equally important so that

34:47

we are weathering the challenges that come

34:50

up and I don't care how great

34:52

someone's life is we all have them.

34:54

And for many of us maybe we're

34:56

more quiet about it but what I

34:59

find interesting is that this practice of

35:01

personal development and working on our stuff

35:04

sometimes that's how eloquently I

35:06

refer to it I need to work on my stuff.

35:08

It's that validation like

35:11

when I went home for Christmas that

35:13

I was like oh clearly there's something

35:15

here I need to be working on

35:17

and I love that you are really

35:19

cautioning people like don't shame yourself like

35:21

understanding that there's this neurobiologic imprinting on

35:23

us as individuals that can get triggered

35:25

over something that's seemingly benign but really

35:28

speaks to a larger issue. Do you

35:30

think that there's generational perspectives and the

35:32

reason why I

35:34

say this was very close to my grandmothers and my

35:36

great aunts and they used to talk openly

35:39

about their generation that you married

35:41

who you married and you were stuck with them

35:44

till death do you part. And

35:46

so I recall saying to my grandmother my great aunt do

35:48

you ever think you'll get remarried they were both widowed

35:50

in their late 60s early 70s and

35:52

they were like heck no. And just

35:54

to hear their explanation of generationally we

35:57

weren't allowed to complain.

36:00

societal expectation, whomever you married, whatever happened,

36:02

you were there till the end. And

36:04

then, you know, looking at my parents'

36:06

generation, obviously they got divorced, which was

36:08

a good decision for them to make

36:10

and for my brother and I. But

36:12

generationally, do you see, I know you

36:15

can have intergenerational trauma, which that's a

36:17

whole separate topic, but do you see

36:19

different perspectives based on the timeframe in

36:21

which people were raised? Because I feel

36:23

like maybe my kid's generation might be

36:25

more aware of these things because we're

36:27

speaking so openly about it, but yet

36:30

even my generation, I'm in my early

36:32

50s, I feel like there's still a

36:34

lot of people that are really uncomfortable

36:36

talking about their stuff or what's gone

36:39

on in their family or certainly not

36:41

speaking about it publicly. Did you

36:43

find that in your clinical practice that there were

36:45

a lot of generational shifts? Yeah,

36:47

I mean, generational beliefs, cultural

36:50

beliefs, political beliefs, you know, any belief,

36:52

you know, kind of belief system that

36:54

is impacted by the external environment and

36:56

all of the systems that are at

36:58

play absolutely affect the individuals then as

37:00

part of that system or as part

37:02

of that generation. And the common thing

37:04

I like to bring up here because

37:06

it's still mind blowing to me, I

37:08

come from to my mom is no

37:10

longer with me, I think she would

37:12

be my dad is what? My dad

37:14

was born in 37. So he's 86

37:16

now, I think 87 on the last recent

37:21

year, 87. So my mom would have been 85. So sharing

37:23

that to say they were of, you know, for me and

37:25

my generation, my mom had me when she was 42 years

37:27

old. So they were of a generation where

37:29

a lot of beliefs, I did see a

37:32

different degree of impact in myself and my

37:34

peers who had parents that were slightly younger

37:36

in it. And again, sharing that to

37:38

say beliefs, what's happening in the

37:40

environment in society and culture at large,

37:42

absolutely then play a role in terms

37:44

of how those individuals show up. And

37:46

the reason why I brought up my

37:48

parents is they are of the generation

37:50

because it was recent, I don't know

37:52

the exact years, but even in the

37:54

field of parenting, which you know, had

37:56

a lot of clinical psychologists at the

37:58

head of it. Up until more

38:01

recent than not, predominant parenting beliefs,

38:03

so how you would have heard

38:05

parenting experts even speaking, writing books for

38:07

parents and how to parent their children, would

38:10

not have had much if any of

38:12

a discussion about a child's emotional world.

38:14

It would have sounded and taken the

38:16

path much like we train animals in

38:18

what is known as a behavioristic kind

38:20

of model where you reward, if I

38:22

really want to simplify it, you reward

38:24

positive behaviors or behaviors that you want

38:26

to continue. This is now for our

38:28

children and then you punish behaviors that

38:30

for whatever reason you want to go

38:32

away to extinguish and that was how

38:34

we believed was the best and it's

38:36

even maybe the 90s, 80s, 90s, well

38:38

where is it kind of like let your baby cry it

38:41

out, cry your baby to sleep, kind of put them

38:43

in the room, the furburize, right? Just

38:45

quickly coming to mind but that surprises me

38:47

Cynthia is that in my feel, right? So

38:49

it's no surprise as you heard me attest

38:51

a couple minutes ago, right? That I didn't

38:53

really know much, not realistically, a lot of

38:55

emotions and well no surprise because my field

38:58

is still in a lot of ways. Now

39:00

of course there's been a great shift in

39:02

parenting. You will hear a lot about emotional

39:04

attunement and emotional regulation and co-regulation, right? Everything

39:06

that I've even been talking throughout but imagining,

39:08

right? All of the parenting generations who

39:10

were directly told of course it's

39:13

going to impact then how these

39:15

individuals show up. I mean generational

39:17

cultural beliefs impact how we believe

39:19

we need to operate in relationships. What's

39:21

appropriate, what's not appropriate in terms of

39:23

relationship type. There's a lot of beliefs

39:25

in terms around self-expression, how it's even

39:28

appropriate to look, what clothing let alone

39:30

jobs and things like that. I mean

39:32

culture and all of those kind of

39:34

external spheres of influence if you will

39:36

have such a great impact on then

39:38

what individuals believe to be true because

39:40

again, the might continue to talk about,

39:42

right? We're dependent in childhood, we need

39:45

these other people, we are interpersonal creatures.

39:47

Us and our individual state of

39:49

self-expression is impacted by all of

39:51

the others around us and of course predominantly

39:54

I've been talking about our core caregivers but

39:56

this is beautiful because it really does expand the

39:58

conversation now beyond what was happening. in our

40:00

home to acknowledging all of the

40:03

influence outside of our home because

40:05

we are in interaction with culture

40:07

even. So all of the different

40:09

beliefs that not only are applicable

40:11

now and I think this is

40:13

where generational disconnection, confusion, sometimes conflict

40:16

can happen because as culture changes

40:18

and children right now have different

40:20

ways of being. I mean you and I were joking about

40:22

Zoom and technology. I mean having my nephew who's

40:24

now 17 years old so years ago when

40:27

he first picked up his first phone and

40:29

his little fingers were barely three years old

40:31

and he's zooming around and I'm like I

40:34

remember leaving the home without a phone. I'm

40:36

like having to find directions and be okay

40:38

and ask other people if I'm lost and

40:40

find a paper. So I think a lot

40:42

of times that causes not only

40:44

individual beliefs but it causes

40:47

conflict within generations as

40:50

other generations are more comfortable or

40:52

are taught certain things are more

40:54

socially acceptable and again just continue

40:57

to emphasize all of those external influences

40:59

will impact because we are all seeking to

41:01

belong whether it's in our family unit or

41:03

whether or not we're seeking to belong in

41:05

the greater culture or community outside of our

41:08

homes. We are attentive in assessing

41:10

how we fit in and again

41:12

especially in childhood. We're going to

41:14

prioritize our need to fit in beyond

41:17

even our need for self-expression. Well and

41:19

it's interesting to me I'm the parent

41:21

of two teenagers now but I know

41:23

for myself because of the way that

41:26

I grew up again not being pejorative

41:28

just observational. My kids have grown up

41:30

very differently and my older son gets

41:32

it he's an introvert my husband and

41:35

I are both introverts we like a

41:37

quiet house and my younger

41:39

son's an extrovert never understands why we're

41:41

so quiet but helping them

41:43

understand that they've grown up in the

41:45

benefit of you know this what I

41:47

would say more regulated environment more emotional

41:49

regulation of the parents who are able

41:51

to kind of be attuned to their

41:53

needs and I think in many ways

41:55

a lot of parents are just in

41:57

survival mode they're just trying to get

42:00

from day to day, single mom,

42:02

my mom was a single mom, had a

42:04

stressful job, my dad lived four hours away.

42:06

The reason why I'm sharing this is that

42:08

I think it's important to acknowledge that our

42:10

parents do the best that they can. And

42:13

I am at peace for the way that

42:16

I grew up, although occasionally I get triggered

42:18

and I'm human. But I think for many

42:20

people, helping them understand that when you grow

42:23

up in a household where there's not a

42:25

lot of emotional regulation, even if you don't

42:27

get exposed to, so I'll date myself and

42:29

say in the 1990s when I was

42:32

in Baltimore and both in my nursing

42:34

program and my nurse practitioner program, when

42:36

we talked about trauma, it was in

42:38

the context of big T, murder, rape,

42:41

suicide, big things, traumatic things. So in

42:43

my mind, I was taught, I didn't

42:45

experience trauma. Well, you know, bring me

42:48

fast forward 25 years and

42:50

I realized I did experience quite a bit of trauma.

42:52

And the significance of adverse

42:55

childhood events and the scoring,

42:57

can we speak about this? Because I think for

42:59

a lot of individuals, myself included, I

43:01

didn't realize that the little T traumas

43:03

I was experiencing had a huge net

43:05

impact on my susceptibility to autoimmune conditions.

43:07

I've had three, they're all in remission.

43:09

Certainly had a lot to do with

43:11

my overactivation of my autonomic nervous system.

43:14

Is it any surprise I ended up

43:16

in healthcare because I love serving others?

43:18

That brings me great peace. But I

43:20

was constantly that duck, you know, when

43:22

you look at a duck and the

43:24

duck looks calm on the water and

43:26

then underneath the water, they're paddling furiously.

43:28

And so that for many years is

43:31

how I mitigated what I grew up when as

43:33

a child. And these adverse childhood events, I think

43:35

that, you know, certainly your work, others work are

43:37

kind of bringing this to the forefront to

43:39

helping people understand that the things we experience

43:42

as a child definitely do influence us.

43:44

And, you know, the trajectory of our

43:46

health span throughout our lifetime, more substantially

43:49

than perhaps we first realized or certainly

43:51

more substantially than I even realized as

43:53

a clinician myself. Historically, just so we

43:56

all are kind of speaking the

43:58

same language here, big T trend. I

44:00

really was under. The definition that trauma have

44:02

been some. We live in experience

44:04

in which are physical or

44:07

physiological body is under threat

44:09

which is. Why Then as you can

44:11

as suggested right we have kind of

44:13

rape. Or illness, physical

44:15

violence, accidents on the

44:18

above freight. When I

44:20

could possibly lose life. Then we

44:22

would say that you would get the after

44:24

effect. Of that you've experienced trauma and and

44:26

he would typically get post. Traumatic Stress

44:28

type this letter and so learning very

44:30

similar taken a scale myself, not scoring

44:33

very highly having worked with clients. scored

44:35

very. Highly in that I. You. Know

44:37

exclude it myself as well. Similar to lead. Us

44:39

and the as at all. I didn't have trauma

44:41

even though I did try on for size because

44:43

something I became. Aware of in myself from

44:45

a very young age around high school I

44:47

think is where became really clear when it

44:50

was a a point of teasing in my

44:52

friend group that I couldn't remember or I

44:54

can't rickshaw a lot of my childhood. so

44:56

when I was here my friends sharing his

44:58

stories of their early childhood. Eve stories of

45:00

things we did together. Innocent. Three months ago

45:03

I would struggle to recall to say I

45:05

will. This is what my you know early

45:07

Christmas look like or oh yeah I remember

45:09

that night being there the thing and it

45:11

became a running joke for a long time.

45:13

And when I then was in a clinical

45:15

program and I was met with the information

45:17

that sometimes people don't recall things because the

45:19

enormity of what had happened. so I did

45:21

try I went down. you know a pathway

45:23

of okay Nicole Bb, something like a Big

45:25

T trauma that did happen to you and

45:28

maybe this is now why you can't. Remember

45:30

and my you're seeing all these patterns a

45:32

be that a bit and trauma and when

45:34

I I couldn't like nothing like that was

45:36

it seeming in alignment with what happened again

45:38

I was left to see a light. Seems

45:40

like well okay you son of be struggling

45:43

in the way that you are and I

45:45

thank all of the and of theorists in

45:47

the trauma realm now that are processing and

45:49

the shift that is happening in the definition

45:51

of traumas south where we no longer categorize

45:53

and I'm that as being traumatic. We don't

45:55

put the label out there, we put the

45:58

label on the impact that in. Him. And

46:00

or multiple events can. maybe even

46:02

nice. Firstly, Khokhlova, Smaller things that

46:05

are happening typically on a day

46:07

to day basis if and when

46:09

the stress from the event overwhelms

46:11

our resources. To cope you hobbies that

46:14

language earlier. Than what we say happened

46:16

is a trauma has happened to the

46:18

mind body system is see well so

46:20

now I'd a new lens to look

46:22

at my past experiences because what I

46:24

was becoming. More and more aware of his. How

46:27

emotionally shut down disconnect and nodded to

46:29

my family was and bring back survival

46:31

mode in here as well because of

46:33

no ill intent. I to as many

46:36

of you listening had very well meaning

46:38

parents who in a lot of ways

46:40

committed to selling up differently than they

46:42

had experience in our own childhood says

46:45

create new environments for myself and for

46:47

my siblings so the reality of it

46:49

is going back to again you very

46:51

wise observation is the caregivers my parents

46:54

whoever right out there isn't able to

46:56

feel com. And grounded and safe and

46:58

secure in themselves and their existence

47:00

of their living in that survival

47:02

the where they feel unsafe for

47:04

whatever reason than they're not going

47:06

to be able to fully it

47:08

soon to or even care about

47:10

a separate individually even if it's

47:12

their child because in survival mode

47:14

we are at the mercy of

47:16

our physiology which becomes. Completely

47:19

self focused, which

47:21

becomes completely self

47:23

prioritized. A. So in a lot

47:25

of those moments, Where we aren't what will

47:27

we think we're showing. Up in service of

47:30

someone else, you know, caring for them.

47:32

If we're not in that com grounded

47:34

stay, the reality of it is right.

47:36

We struggle to actually shift our focus

47:38

of attention, struggle to put baby our

47:41

own desires in that moment, to the

47:43

back burner to show up in services

47:45

someone. House. And.

47:47

The and a lot of us are living

47:49

in that survival mode a lot of us

47:51

can't Kind of. Give. The

47:53

a to and meant. That. We

47:55

need from other people. And. Civil

47:57

lot of a c grub with a caregiver. A

48:00

are like in net care giving environment. let me

48:03

work that way. Where. We were under

48:05

resource. We were under support. It. So.

48:07

Trauma did happen, not only just

48:10

one. Eight, Physically, we were

48:12

at risk. Their. When emotionally

48:14

we were at risk and what it

48:16

looks like to be a most at

48:18

risk as number emotionally under supported. We.

48:21

Don't have that caregiver who, for whatever

48:23

reason, Can't show up as at

48:26

safe and that secure obese because the impact.

48:28

On the body is the same. We have

48:30

an individual. Who. Is overwhelmed.

48:33

And. Under resourced. To. Cope.

48:36

Which. Until that individual developed. The

48:39

ability electorate earlier to the embodied

48:41

practice. Of teaching their

48:43

body how to deal with more

48:45

and more eight stressful, upsetting events.

48:48

Emotions. A will continue themselves

48:50

then this. Is how intergenerational patterns get

48:52

passed on. They. Will remain locked

48:54

in their survival mode. Probably.

48:57

Living the auto pilot. Of all of

48:59

those adaptations that they believe are keeping themselves,

49:01

see. Some. Of them. I need to think

49:03

they're caretaking the world around them. Though.

49:05

Again, one of my big hopes for this

49:07

new book in particular about. Love.

49:09

And relationships. Instill.

49:11

In our bodies were in that round of seat of

49:13

presence in a to knit. We. Actually

49:16

can't be. Emotionally

49:18

connected. Authentically and we

49:20

can't be that piece of safety

49:22

and security. And we can't

49:24

support. People. In.

49:26

The way that we want to. And

49:29

this brings the then to as early as base

49:31

of hope. I mean even sitting

49:33

here having a conversation with you, knowing all of

49:35

your community listening into this. The

49:37

a male even watching the self help.

49:41

To the world if you will. Expand

49:43

including information is more expanded.

49:46

Definition of Trauma Sound Decent

49:48

Oral of the body. Giving.

49:50

So freely as these conversations do the

49:53

resources to begin to create. That seems

49:55

quite honestly since the i'm feeling hopeful.

49:58

that what we will continue to see or cycles

50:00

being broken and ultimately

50:03

not as

50:06

individuals who I think many of us is

50:26

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53:28

and I think it's so important for people to

53:30

entertain the possibility that because

53:34

you grew up a certain way that does

53:36

not then mean that you were imprinted for

53:38

the rest of your life. You talk about

53:40

the role of hope of which I'm a

53:42

huge proponent of and for full transparency I

53:44

actively work. That's why it's a practice.

53:47

I actively consistently work

53:50

to break those intergenerational trauma bonds and

53:52

be able to observe family members. I

53:54

won't just pick on my parents to

53:56

observe family members and observe them from

53:58

a place of compassion. passion because

54:01

in some instances some people are

54:03

willing to do the work. They're willing

54:05

to change behavior patterns. They're willing

54:07

to consider that they need

54:09

to shift some perspectives to do that inner

54:12

work. It's hard. I mean, I think for

54:14

a lot of people in many ways it

54:16

may be too hard. They may not be

54:18

in a position where they're ready. You talk

54:20

about, you know, being in a position to

54:23

receive and if you're in

54:25

survival mode, if you have, you know,

54:27

if you're amygdala, which is your kind

54:29

of lizard brain, is overridden your prefrontal

54:31

cortex, for many people that's what happened

54:33

during the pandemic, you can't expect to do

54:35

the work because you're not in a position

54:37

where your body feels safe. And I think

54:40

that's a significant distinction to make. I would

54:42

love to start on the pivot just a

54:44

little bit. I would love to talk about

54:47

heart-brain coherence. You know, prior to leaving clinical

54:49

medicine eight years ago, I was working in

54:51

cardiology as an MP. And I

54:53

love everything about the heart, but there's

54:55

a lot of interrelationship between our autonomic

54:57

nervous system and our heart. And I

54:59

think you do such a beautiful job

55:01

describing this in the book. And I

55:03

really think that helping people understand

55:06

that our heart is really the

55:08

hub of our emotions. You know, we talk about

55:11

being heart-centered, but there's so much more to it.

55:13

And I think you do such a beautiful job in

55:15

the book discussing this. Learning about the heart for me,

55:17

which again was in the more

55:19

recent past, was really groundbreaking.

55:22

It was at a time where I

55:24

had started to lean into the foundational

55:26

presence and power of the body and

55:28

the nervous system. And I was feeling

55:31

really empowered by that piece of information.

55:33

And then when I discovered, I'm

55:35

so grateful for HeartMath Institute in particular,

55:37

that I know is such at the

55:39

forefront of even scientifically measuring a lot

55:42

of these kind of heart-based signals. But

55:44

when I kind of expanded my focus to include

55:46

the heart and the body and was met with

55:49

even just the logistical information of how much

55:51

more powerful our heart is in terms of

55:53

how much more of a reach outside

55:55

of our body that those signals travel

55:57

compared to even that of our nervous system.

56:00

and similarly how much our heart is registering at

56:02

a greater distance, shifts and changes in sensations

56:04

happening from outside of ourselves and then

56:06

all of that information is being filtered

56:08

up to our brain. So again, back

56:10

to this powerful mind that we thought

56:12

was sending all the top-down messaging at

56:14

the control, now not only do we

56:16

have our nervous system, we really have

56:19

our heart really kind of localized

56:21

in the middle of all of

56:23

these messages that are going upwards.

56:25

And so not only is our

56:27

heart our most sensitive sensor

56:29

at the greatest distance in terms of around

56:32

us, our heart also has

56:34

the capacity to synchronize all

56:36

of the different systems, organs in our

56:38

body because that's the thing, we have

56:40

this kind of whole body, I think

56:43

of like holistic at the moment I get right, so we have this whole

56:45

body but in reality of all of these

56:47

different cells and organs and systems that kind

56:49

of work in an integrated fashion. And

56:51

again, now that we know that our body

56:53

is just as equal if not a stronger

56:56

component in terms of that integration,

56:58

we now know as well that

57:00

our heart can be at

57:02

the center of that. And when

57:04

we are in a state of heart coherence,

57:06

which again this kind of gives another opportunity

57:08

to illustrate the process in nature if you

57:11

will of this journey because for our heart

57:13

to be coherent and you've heard us already

57:15

talk about these words, we need to be

57:17

safe and grounded in our nervous system. So

57:19

again continuing to go back to

57:22

that foundational body safety, security, can

57:24

I actually feel safe and at ease

57:27

in my muscles, in my breathing, can

57:30

I be present and in a safe

57:32

grounded body? And when I then am

57:34

and my heart rhythm is not reacting

57:36

to stress, it's not elevating, I'm not

57:38

reacting to stress, I'm not in kind

57:40

of any of that survival

57:42

mode, now I have the possibility

57:45

like I was showing earlier to feel those

57:48

heart based emotions, to feel caring,

57:51

to feel compassionate, to feel

57:53

loving, to feel connected. And when

57:55

I'm in that state of connection,

57:57

caring, compassion, then my heart can

57:59

really begin to feel safe. to take that integrated

58:01

kind of organizational, helps all

58:03

of my systems move toward

58:05

more coherence. And where this becomes

58:07

specifically important, I believe, and this is why

58:09

I think that, and I do truly believe

58:12

we are marching toward an integrated health system,

58:14

and what I mean by that is all health

58:16

is one health. There's not body health over here,

58:18

and mind health over here. It

58:20

is the health of the whole system,

58:22

right? Because it is in our body,

58:24

in our mind, in our emotion, and

58:27

all of those are just so interconnected.

58:29

And again, when we learn about the

58:31

power of the heart, and we localize

58:33

it within our bodies, and we learn

58:35

how to create that safety in ourselves,

58:38

and then we become more compassionate,

58:40

caring individuals, and then physically

58:42

we become more healthy. Then

58:44

our nervous, our immune system, excuse

58:47

me, I know all of yourself

58:49

included, everyone who's experienced autoimmune, right?

58:51

Now our body is physically

58:53

healthier. Now emotionally we have

58:56

more of that expanded stress resilience

58:58

that I've been talking about throughout. We

59:00

have the ability to become stressed and to

59:02

become calm, and then we have

59:05

the ability to turn inward, and to begin

59:07

to explore, again, we've been talking about those

59:09

deeper aspects of ourselves. So again, the heart,

59:11

in my opinion, is truly, as science is

59:14

now, confirming, much like you agree, it is the

59:16

heart of our emotions, it is the

59:18

seed of our intuition, and again, the

59:20

process of tapping into that begins

59:23

with becoming more connected to our body, which

59:25

for a lot of us includes learning how

59:27

to be in a body that has a

59:29

lot of stress, that has a lot of

59:31

trauma, that has a lot of upsetting and

59:33

dysregulated emotions, that does tend to regress and

59:35

go back in time and become overwhelmed by

59:37

those emotions, and then building that resilience in

59:39

our body so that we can then become

59:41

more coherent, not only for ourselves, but that's

59:44

when the science, in my opinion, gets even

59:46

more mind-blowing, then we can send those

59:48

signals of not only safety but coherence out

59:50

to then impact all of the others and

59:52

really all of the world around us. No,

59:54

and it's so important, I had a positioned

59:56

friend a few years ago who introduced me

59:58

to heart math and obviously, I wear

1:00:00

a tracker, so I have an oar

1:00:03

ring, and so I'm always tracking my

1:00:05

HRV. And it's amazing to me to

1:00:07

see the fluctuations in heart rate variability

1:00:09

just related to the compounding effects of

1:00:11

stress or not, depending on what's going

1:00:13

on. I would love to kind of

1:00:15

end the conversation. Now, obviously, individuals that

1:00:18

are listening to this podcast can get

1:00:20

your amazing books and work and follow

1:00:22

you on social media, and you're one

1:00:24

of my favorite people to follow because

1:00:26

there's always so much value. What would

1:00:28

be a couple easy things

1:00:30

if someone is listening and they're

1:00:33

inspired to start making some changes?

1:00:35

What are some fairly easy things,

1:00:38

tangible things, that they could be

1:00:40

doing today or tomorrow to become

1:00:42

more present in their body so

1:00:45

that they can get forward on

1:00:47

this trajectory to more health-related behaviors,

1:00:49

more autonomic regulation, being physically

1:00:52

present in their bodies because so many

1:00:54

of us are really disconnected? The

1:00:56

first step, again, going back foundationally to the

1:00:58

body, the first step to create change is

1:01:00

to first become present. And now we have

1:01:02

some choices. We can become present. I like

1:01:04

to think of consciousness or this kind of state

1:01:06

of presence, like the overhead lights on in a

1:01:09

room. We're illuminating what's there. So again, we can

1:01:11

become present. This is, I think, what a lot

1:01:13

of us spend a lot of time being maybe

1:01:15

over-present to, which is the thoughts in our mind.

1:01:17

We can kind of drop inwards. What I mean

1:01:19

when I say kind of turn inward, a lot

1:01:21

of us maybe are benefited. Traditionally, I think when

1:01:23

we think of meditation, we think of eyes closed

1:01:26

in a quiet room. And logistically, the reason why

1:01:28

I think many of us think of that is

1:01:30

because when we close our eyes, when we quiet

1:01:32

the room or put headphones on, simply what we're

1:01:35

doing is we're turning down the volume of

1:01:37

distraction of the world around us by

1:01:39

shutting our eyes, by closing it off

1:01:41

with sound so that we can turn inward, right?

1:01:43

We can turn our focus from being distracted outside

1:01:45

of ourselves, as many of us spend the large

1:01:48

majority of our day, and illuminate what's going on

1:01:50

inside. So again, we have the thoughts in our

1:01:52

mind we can become present to. And then if

1:01:54

I really want to simplify it, we could drop

1:01:56

down that attention, unhook it from what for some

1:01:58

of us are racing. The overwhelming, upsetting,

1:02:01

stressful, Thought. And then I can

1:02:03

drop down and started sense or

1:02:05

become president the all of the

1:02:08

sensations in my body and specifically

1:02:10

there's. Three areas that we can begin

1:02:12

to notice. I've already. Mentioned those is

1:02:14

three systems. sit in scenes as our

1:02:16

body becomes elevated and stress and as

1:02:18

systems are the tension and arm muscles.

1:02:21

The breathing are breathing patterns whether it's

1:02:23

com and feet from the valley or

1:02:25

whether it's really quick and salchow from

1:02:27

our chess. Maybe some of you have

1:02:30

a favorite? Invite you right now to

1:02:32

drop in and notice how is that

1:02:34

your breathing me be are holding your

1:02:36

breath As I mentioned. For. The muscles may

1:02:38

be dropping and right now I'm just doing a

1:02:41

stance. On the top a your head to the

1:02:43

tips your toes, you notice tension. In any muscles

1:02:45

as their use and l for me i carry

1:02:47

lot and to the my jaw my upper back

1:02:49

then we can begin to notice I as i

1:02:51

mentioned throughout. Our heart rate the her is

1:02:53

very powerful is our heart rate and

1:02:55

it's normal rhythm. Is it beating out

1:02:57

of our chest? Is it so imperceptible?

1:02:59

We can barely even feel our heart. And

1:03:01

so the reason I'm says sickly focusing

1:03:04

on our body. So first and foremost,

1:03:06

we begin to pay attention by noticing

1:03:08

what's there. Because. The first thing, many

1:03:10

of us. My notice even right now are the

1:03:12

racing thoughts in our head. so we want

1:03:14

to know what we can't control his. The

1:03:16

presence of those thoughts are because that's where

1:03:18

all that firing and wiring all those neural

1:03:21

networks. All that has. Happened behind the scenes

1:03:23

so long that would sell present in your mind.

1:03:25

What we can do though is from that seat

1:03:27

of presence. Remove. The focus

1:03:29

of our attention from our thoughts

1:03:31

and begin to notice. This three areas

1:03:34

of our body. And so of course I

1:03:36

invite everyone to do that. Listening right? here.

1:03:38

right now, but that really simplistically

1:03:40

in San decently. Is a

1:03:42

practice that this doesn't mean that like a light

1:03:44

switch, you've done it once. He'd done a here

1:03:46

together and now you're conscious, aware and off you

1:03:49

go to intensely crate. Rest of your moments

1:03:51

of the today what will happen is more.

1:03:53

Drop right back and autopilot. Become overwhelmed by

1:03:55

our thoughts, distracted by them. Said. We

1:03:57

want to build the commitment and consistent.

1:04:00

The at this practice a suggestion I guess. I believe

1:04:02

I get it in the stock. I know I give

1:04:04

it in some. Feelers. My International my

1:04:06

virtual membership. Because every new member we

1:04:08

have a whole library at this point of all.

1:04:10

Different courses and members joined for you know,

1:04:12

clinton different areas Of every new member we

1:04:14

suggest the first core set we ever put

1:04:16

out some four years. Ago now which is

1:04:19

called a Waking Consciousness where the practice is

1:04:21

exactly as I shared with everyone here for

1:04:23

a consciousness second and the suggestion we get

1:04:25

this to utilize a to the technology in

1:04:27

our pocket set an alarm on our phones

1:04:30

proof Baby! Starting with one, increasing it to

1:04:32

two times a day or without alarm goes

1:04:34

off. We will be reminded of this check

1:04:36

in practice now again the alarm thought magic.

1:04:38

What is magic that was taking that one

1:04:41

moment to pause to first notice or was

1:04:43

my attention. Oh my gosh, I was reliving

1:04:45

an argument that I had five hours ago

1:04:47

and I'm still upset by it. Or oh

1:04:49

my gosh, I was worrying about what's coming

1:04:51

tomorrow. And I'm worrying about it. or it

1:04:53

will now. like and unhook at an invitation

1:04:55

to remove the focus from my mind and

1:04:58

to practice being present to my body. Because

1:05:00

chances are it's the thoughts were noticing or

1:05:02

stressful. There probably aren't any summers indicators of

1:05:04

stress coming from our body. The party will

1:05:06

be tension. There might be an elevated heart

1:05:08

rate or click and breath because the thoughts

1:05:10

in our mind reflect the sensations that our

1:05:12

body. Is sharing with our My So whether

1:05:14

it's an alarm weathered setting post it notes, whether

1:05:16

it's finding a friend or a partner who wants

1:05:19

to check in with you a couple times a

1:05:21

day, whether it's committing to it, has journaling practice

1:05:23

in the morning where he said that daily reminder

1:05:25

for yourself that somewhere in your day you're gonna

1:05:27

create a moment for a check in and then

1:05:29

it is the Powers. And bullying as I

1:05:32

mean I continue to same party through the

1:05:34

some preseason. That is a practice and

1:05:36

embodiment. When. That alarm goes off

1:05:38

taking that moment to see if

1:05:40

physiologically not only your focus of

1:05:42

attention but that's where now. In that

1:05:44

new space as we noticed. Oh my

1:05:46

gosh, my body is really sending signals.

1:05:48

Of stress to my my. No wonder I can't stop

1:05:51

thinking sessile. Thought some ten same. I

1:05:53

can release my muscles. I. Practice quick,

1:05:56

I. Can slow it and deep in it and then

1:05:58

I can. Notice as a result, mice. right?

1:06:00

maybe can smile at into. It's

1:06:02

normal rhythm. So now this is what I've

1:06:04

been meaning to out when I talk about

1:06:06

rates. In body meant. And. Creating

1:06:09

the ability to tolerate more stress

1:06:11

or to simply shift. Ourselves out

1:06:13

of survival mode because aware. That

1:06:15

com gonna presence. Not only are

1:06:17

we less likely to return to

1:06:19

that old habitual reaction, that subconscious

1:06:21

autopilot that's been calling the shots,

1:06:23

we become more. Likely to make choices

1:06:26

that allow us to create that harper incoherence

1:06:28

and then to greatly impact our showing up

1:06:30

now Nocturnal Para: Thank you so much for

1:06:32

your time today! It was a perfect way

1:06:35

to and are.conversation Please let my listeners know

1:06:37

how to connect with you on social media.

1:06:39

Had a junior books and purchase your books.

1:06:42

Absolutely so. Thank you Off course

1:06:44

for listening. And. So inspired like a

1:06:46

So and I took the communities. Like yours Cynthia

1:06:48

and people who are really interested in and

1:06:50

doing the work, especially the body, so essay

1:06:52

on it. And so anyone who's interested in

1:06:55

the stock in any book have a website

1:06:57

The Holistic Psychologist or Com. Each of my

1:06:59

books I have three, one is a workbook,

1:07:01

have a separate web sites he can click

1:07:03

on it. This website is how to be

1:07:06

lovey seats.com and you concede. A

1:07:08

whole bunch of retailers that I have highlighted

1:07:10

though I. Do know that a lot of local

1:07:12

bookstores are carrying this book, so he do have

1:07:14

a local book. Retailer I suggest giving

1:07:16

them a call. Also suggests falling long

1:07:18

across at this point any the social

1:07:21

media platforms. So however it is that

1:07:23

you like to consume your social media

1:07:25

content of the Holistic Psychologist or some

1:07:28

version of that handle will have a

1:07:30

presence whether it's on Instagram where it

1:07:32

all started at.dot Holistic that psychologist as

1:07:34

a You Tube channel now a tick

1:07:37

tock and X accounts different ways it

1:07:39

can seem. Santana forced to interact with

1:07:41

the community are having these conversations on

1:07:44

this journey to everyday. Amazing Think

1:07:46

you. if

1:07:49

you wanted parker please leave and

1:07:51

rating and reviews subscribe and you