0:02

Welcome To Everyday Wellness Podcast I'm

0:04

your host Nurse Practitioner Cynthia Thurlow.

0:06

This podcast is designed to educate

0:08

and power and inspire you to

0:10

achieve your health and wellness goals.

0:12

My goal and intent is to

0:14

provide you with the best contact

0:17

and conversations from leaders in the

0:19

health and wellness industry each week

0:21

and impact over a million lives.

0:29

Didn't. Read the honor of reconnecting

0:31

with Dr. Sarah Gottfried. She learns.

0:33

Join me on the podcast and

0:36

episode two eleven. She's a board

0:38

certified physician who graduated from Harvard

0:40

and Mit. She practices evidence based

0:42

integrate of precision and functional medicine.

0:45

She's a clinical assistant professor in

0:47

the department of Integrated Medicine and

0:49

Nutritional Sciences at Thomas Jefferson University

0:51

and the Director of Precision Medicine

0:54

at the Marcus Institute of Integrate

0:56

of Health. She has written for

0:58

New York Times bestselling. Books

1:00

and has recently published The

1:02

Auto Immune A Cure. Today.

1:05

We spoke at great length

1:07

about the ensure relationship between

1:09

trauma and auto immunity, understanding

1:12

that it impacts one in

1:14

ten worldwide. Women more

1:16

than men. The impact of trauma

1:19

is insidious, pervasive in corrosive, and

1:21

predicts auto immunity that every increase

1:24

in a particular score called the

1:26

East or is associated with a

1:28

twenty percent greater likelihood of being

1:31

hospitalized with an autoimmune condition the

1:33

role of the pie network which

1:36

is they psycho immune, neuro endocrine

1:38

system triggers or peri menopause and

1:40

men a pause specific to the

1:43

changes, an immunity. The. Role

1:45

of gender differences and vulnerability and

1:47

women. The. Impact of super

1:49

autonomous, self sufficiency and burn

1:51

out rates in not only

1:54

teachers, first responders, but also

1:56

health care providers. The flaws

1:58

with traditional allopathic up. The

2:00

To Mental Health and Trauma. The.

2:02

Impact of a new know

2:04

modulation including Vitamins Poly Sci

2:06

knows. Lotus. Notes: Rak Zone.

2:09

And some merit based therapies. This

2:11

is they don't miss episode

2:13

with the amazing Doctor Gottfried

2:15

that I know you will

2:17

find incredibly invaluable. And

2:22

so really starting the conversation about when

2:25

we are children and as we are

2:27

exposed to any can be a myriad

2:29

of things that could be bowling and

2:31

could be a parental divorce. The comey

2:34

many things that it can impact us

2:36

but how to set set us up

2:38

and how does that predict for us

2:40

that we are going to ultimately potential

2:43

be much more susceptible to autoimmune conditions?

2:45

Autonomic this right away Sir Nick Sutra

2:47

I'm glad she raised this point about

2:49

your training and Inner City also works.

2:52

I grew up not far from there in

2:54

Maryland. Yeah, you know, What I had

2:56

a similar experience where I would work

2:58

at. San Francisco General Hospital and

3:00

I felt like. An. Appeal.

3:03

Unless. Be. No. A

3:05

street workers sex worker in

3:07

other words is traumas that

3:10

Isis. Has been incredibly distressing and

3:12

disruptive to to theology but my

3:14

experience at home for a not

3:16

third marriage that I was in.

3:18

there are all of these other

3:20

small t traumas at a couple

3:22

months a man's that that originally

3:25

that as the circulation and in

3:27

many ways it's not the trauma,

3:29

it's the way that it lists

3:31

on in your system that really

3:33

matters so that with a non

3:35

in your system that's what you're

3:37

asking about and it's so curious

3:39

me because. We all know about

3:42

the stress response of some we

3:44

all know about the hypothalamic pituitary

3:46

Adrenal axles end when you start

3:48

to look at the data on

3:51

trauma and you think about how

3:53

people with trauma or see are

3:55

small to a house mental health

3:57

issues they spotless Radek. Stressful. After

4:00

Anxiety Depression disordered eating

4:02

Assess a compulsive disorder.

4:05

Attention Deficit Disorder that's important but

4:07

it's a small part of the

4:10

bigger picture of this regulation and

4:12

the parts of the body the

4:14

most sense as to at the

4:16

most vulnerable are would I think

4:18

about the plane network so that's

4:21

your psychology. p Your immune

4:23

system I your neurological for.

4:25

Some andor and a concern.

4:28

He. And so high in

4:30

is easier for me to remember

4:32

them in a Psycho Neuro immunology

4:34

year of some of the other

4:36

terms that are use and when

4:38

you look at the way that

4:41

people respond to overwhelming and distressing

4:43

events often there's the vulnerability with

4:45

one system or another. I feel

4:47

like my vulnerability might be with

4:49

all of the above with entire

4:51

Pine network. N that may

4:54

not maps the much to. Him

4:56

on a trauma in my life but as the. Way

4:58

my makeup is. And. I also

5:00

I think it's important. To point out that

5:02

I don't feel like a victim about

5:04

this, I feel like these things happened

5:07

through me and for me and not

5:09

to me and not another route. Really

5:11

critical part The made ordinance a little

5:13

bit later. but when you look at

5:15

the immune system when you look at

5:17

the neurological, some some when you look

5:20

at the and a cringe Some I

5:22

think a particular biomarkers I think of

5:24

within him. For sons you have auto

5:26

unity. You have it. This is regulated

5:28

at noon. Response: Maybe you had covered

5:30

and you've. Got and of as

5:32

ongoing process of responding despite

5:35

protein which is now.of is

5:37

not immune conditioned non classical

5:39

mit as i add anti

5:41

nuclear antibodies side possibly anti

5:43

nuclear antibodies that recognizes about

5:45

six years ago so I

5:47

was know if you think

5:49

of the cells. In your body

5:51

and the nucleus in the cells of

5:53

your body. I was making antibodies

5:55

against as really fundamental. Part.

5:58

Of my. My. Body. So.

6:00

We've got. Trillions

6:03

of souls and. My.

6:06

Immune system was attacking nucleus of

6:08

myself. My anti nuclear antibodies are

6:10

now negative so we can talk

6:12

a little bit about that process.

6:15

But. Then if you said to the

6:17

neurological system I was someone who's

6:19

is always had a low rate

6:22

variability which is that measure of

6:24

once again. Balancer: Homeostasis

6:26

in a particular system

6:28

that response to. Stress.

6:30

Us Express and Trauma and so

6:33

I've gotta do a lot of

6:35

work and then of one experiments

6:37

you address that to improve my

6:39

hurry variability and then with the

6:41

endocrine system is to the and

6:44

the books that I've written are

6:46

mostly about hormones and here there

6:48

are certain hormones that are especially

6:50

vulnerable sensors Cortisol the mean stress

6:52

hormone upstream from Matt Quirk a

6:54

trip and releasing were Mon which

6:57

is directly toxic to a permeability

6:59

of your gut integrity. And can

7:01

lead to increased intestinal permeability so

7:03

called leaky gut and it can

7:05

also lead to problems with insulin

7:08

the and glucose which alpha dogs

7:10

like. I predict these it can

7:12

have sex sex hormones less directly

7:14

but progesterone, estrogen and testosterone to

7:16

each year. So when we think

7:18

of the impact as he is

7:20

trauma flourished year small I really

7:23

think it's not bullet to consider

7:25

the pine network and also to

7:27

consider house or find out are

7:29

functioning do you. Ask does regulation?

7:31

Are there ways that your body

7:33

is not interstate? A balance that

7:36

needs to be addressed. And it's

7:38

interesting to me because I think

7:40

about all these compensatory ways that

7:43

we as we navigate in new

7:45

childhood and see young adulthood ensue

7:47

you know, or years were sabotaging

7:50

ourselves. With in her career, maybe getting

7:52

married, having children and I think for.

7:54

Women in particular were just so

7:56

largely disconnected from our bodies. were

7:58

kind of trains. You mention and

8:00

the both about being assists and and in

8:03

l forget about going to the bathroom, forget

8:05

about eating when he needs you, forget about

8:07

sleeping when you need to And that's not

8:09

to say you need to just health care

8:11

providers but so many occupations that we just

8:14

subjugate our needs in order to get the

8:16

job done and for many people focusing in

8:18

on school are focusing in on our our

8:20

purpose or occupation allows us to deflect attention

8:23

to the inner work which is so much

8:25

harder. I will say it's easy for me

8:27

to get up and go to the gym

8:29

or go for a walk. It's a whole

8:31

lot harder when I to do the enter

8:34

work and I think this is something that

8:36

likely resonates with listeners that growing awareness of

8:38

in oh it's like this little scratch and

8:40

the acknowledgement that you know that work needs

8:42

to be down and more often than not

8:45

these autoimmune conditions and as you appropriately mention

8:47

when you were going to your training which

8:49

was likely run the time I was going

8:51

through my own training, there was a lot

8:53

less. He had a laundry list of autoimmune

8:56

conditions were much shorter than they are now

8:58

and so for all these things. Like I

9:00

never made the connection that after being

9:02

treated for a long. It's

9:04

six lease appropriately of antibiotics which I'm

9:07

grateful because and ninety ninety five. Most

9:09

people probably seen lot of bull's eye

9:11

rashes and I had one and then

9:13

developed psoriasis bed. Even my health care

9:16

providers never said Oh by the way,

9:18

you've now have developed because the antibiotics

9:20

that address the line appropriately. Have now

9:22

created Leaky Guide and oh, by the

9:25

way, this is what you now have

9:27

And so sometimes the skin manifestations can

9:29

be the very first sign that something

9:31

is kind of brewing underneath the surface.

9:33

In the books you talk quite a

9:35

bit about specific autoimmune conditions that show

9:37

up his skin related and I'm kind

9:39

of like looking through. My notes: realizing

9:42

like I'm looking for this one

9:44

area where you were talking specifically

9:46

about psoriasis and you know eczema

9:49

and things like this said can

9:51

be harbingers of specific types of

9:53

trauma. An internal Darius It's been

9:56

manifested in our scan and you

9:58

know for me that. Woodbury Affirming.

10:00

I think for many people you know

10:02

were diagnosed as one, maybe two, maybe

10:05

three autoimmune. Conditions and then maybe the light

10:07

bulb goes on that we need some look a

10:09

little. Bit more deeply we need to

10:11

be a little bit more conscientious may

10:13

be. There's this internal work that needs

10:15

to be done and yet that's the

10:17

hardest work. And as you appropriately said,

10:19

Thomas happen to us and many ways

10:22

for us. I'm stronger because of what

10:24

I went through. I view my family

10:26

compassionately of there's no shame or judgment

10:28

for my part dating for many people

10:30

it's getting to the point where you

10:32

can reflects objectively and compassionately at yourself

10:34

and what you've survived and grown up

10:37

with an ass. well, cysts. In

10:39

the I was taught me you you

10:42

know meeting new a couple weeks ago

10:44

in New York was that. So I

10:46

write for me because you're a deep

10:48

and wise think her about the challenges

10:51

or see seen at this point in

10:53

our lives and others all the it's

10:55

contents to worry ways that are body

10:57

feels worse things like Lyme disease and

11:00

a lot of them back fire you

11:02

know Sometimes you get antibiotics for one

11:04

thing and it leads to disruption of

11:06

the microbiome. It leads to dispose of.

11:09

This leads. To increased and has some

11:11

permeability. As you mentioned and so

11:13

the body is magnificent and there are

11:15

ways in which it can get

11:17

the n my experiences that that's himself

11:20

and much more often and women and

11:22

it doesn't Men. That the

11:24

balance the homeostasis, the delicacy

11:26

other is greater. And women

11:28

and maybe the opportunity as a result

11:31

of.so there's some things that want to

11:33

respond to their and oldest pick a

11:35

few. One is another title of this

11:38

book is thought I mean to earth

11:40

And in some ways I wish that

11:42

people understood Not wait until they've got

11:45

an auto immune disease. So Psoriasis as

11:47

he mentioned is one of those auto

11:49

immune diseases. It's where you get Clarkson,

11:52

you know, a can abuse changes. I

11:54

can occur different places on your, by

11:56

your scalp, your hands, Year other

11:58

parts and. We know that

12:01

people have an immunity. They've

12:03

got this. this regulated immune

12:05

response. That can last for a sudden.

12:07

the. Fourteen years before they get

12:09

diagnosed with the not immune disease

12:12

And those people I especially. Want

12:14

to be talking to you because we know

12:16

be assigned. As a smoky

12:18

months with them are kind and

12:20

about his work with Funks now

12:23

and he's shown any start about

12:25

this publicly that in the hundred

12:27

thousand plus people that have done

12:30

blood work with thugs know that

12:32

thirty percent as positive anti nuclear

12:34

antibodies, thirty percent of have auto

12:36

nudity, Twelve percent of antibodies. the

12:39

concert tirade that can lead to

12:41

hashimoto spirit at us. So this

12:43

is not something that affects only

12:46

the. Twenty. Four to fifty

12:48

million people in the U S. It's

12:50

something that's affecting a much larger group

12:52

of people, an epic, a sleepless pandemic,

12:54

or seen more of this. Women:

12:57

One Skyn are disproportionately affected. We

12:59

can talk about why that is

13:01

that the state of compensation. And

13:04

the way that it backfires I think is

13:06

really critical. And

13:08

it you just described beautifully know

13:10

with lime disease. I'm glad you

13:13

got treated so early with your

13:15

rash Elena people down and I

13:17

can lead to circulation of the

13:20

immune system and wet Alessio Fasano

13:22

that pediatric cancer and religious at

13:25

Massachusetts General Hospital. Talks

13:27

about is a three legged

13:29

stool as required to develop

13:31

an immunity and that is

13:33

genetic predisposition together with increasing

13:35

tell some permeability so called

13:37

leaky gut and then a

13:39

trigger. So. That trigger

13:41

could be made in your case. Wine.

13:44

disease antibiotics it could be toxic

13:46

stress it could be adverse so

13:48

that experiences which we know increase

13:50

the risk of auto immune disease

13:52

it could be out of worse

13:55

it could be in saxon it

13:57

could be pregnancy plus paradigm peri

13:59

menopause big hormonal shift. So there's lots

14:01

of important

14:04

to mention is that yeah

14:06

you can

14:09

change the way that your genes are leaky

14:14

gut and with the way that

14:16

you respond to triggers. That's the

14:18

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14:21

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14:24

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14:26

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14:28

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14:31

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14:33

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14:35

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14:37

and gas. And if you're over the age of 35

14:40

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14:42

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14:45

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I Think For anyone that's listening to

17:51

this podcast, understanding that there's great information

17:53

obviously in the information as well as

17:55

your book, which does a really beautiful

17:57

job of tying all this together. About

18:00

middle aged perry men, a

18:02

pause net implies that makes

18:04

as much more susceptible. To auto

18:07

immunity because I cannot tell you how many

18:09

women I have worked with. That if

18:11

said I was, you know, kind of plugging along. And

18:13

sell forty five and then the we'll

18:15

sell off the boss and now I'm

18:17

trying to pick up the pieces, put

18:20

myself back together and try to navigate

18:22

this next stage in my life. What

18:24

is it about it? So you need

18:26

to paramount a pause in particular that

18:28

makes as much more susceptible to. Thus

18:30

you just described exactly what we're trying

18:33

to. It was said a talking to

18:35

clients and basins about their story so

18:37

I'm always listening for the trigger or

18:39

must. same for I was fine until

18:41

and as you said his. Lawyers Forty

18:43

Five and the wheels him off.

18:45

So what we know is that

18:48

Pre Menopause is so much bigger

18:50

than just were modeled. Seems we

18:52

tend to think of it as

18:54

you know, sort of. At nestle

18:56

last progesterone you've got a very

18:58

in eighteen and then losses Astrid,

19:00

I'll n sten Menopause your final

19:02

menstrual period but you gotta white

19:05

Valencia or because there are a

19:07

new and and metabolic changes at

19:09

are critical part of what's happening

19:11

and Berryman apostrophe just flickered. You

19:13

know the different parts of the immune

19:15

system. We know that and need immunity

19:17

adapters. Immunity changes pretty to radically and

19:20

one of the ways that this got

19:22

my attention was that and I'm gonna

19:24

be careful to kind of stay in

19:26

the middle of the road here during

19:28

the pandemic. guess I was taken care

19:30

of people with tell Health. it was

19:33

that women in Perry Menopause that was

19:35

the women who were forty to fifty

19:37

five or having the most adverse reactions

19:39

to vaccines and to less soda could

19:41

have it in taxes. And overall,

19:43

women were doing better in

19:45

terms of survival compared to

19:48

men because we've got this

19:50

more react his immune system,

19:52

but especially in response to

19:54

vaccines. Many more vaccine injuries,

19:56

Many more problems in response

19:58

to vaccines compared to. My

20:00

no patience did you see that

20:02

to? I didn't quite a bad

20:04

and I don't know if I've

20:06

spoken about this personally on the

20:08

podcast, but I did get vaccinated and

20:10

bled for six months and my

20:12

functional medicine doc finally said, i

20:14

think this is because I'm seeing so

20:17

much of this interruption between the

20:19

hypothalamus to to a teary ovarian access

20:21

in both menopausal and Perry Menopausal

20:23

women that I'm fairly certain and I

20:25

even had auto markers like my

20:27

and a skyrocketed and with no

20:29

other. Proclivity for how that could

20:31

have happened. So yes, definitely personally and

20:34

professionally. I understand the desire to kind

20:36

of keep things simple you know to

20:38

think about period was okay. Assertion: Progesterone

20:41

Yeah, Blimey. consider with already hit by

20:43

are identical hormone therapy, but we really

20:45

want to be working broader. We want

20:48

to be thinking about immune changes, the

20:50

nervous system changes the way that your

20:52

brain disturbing is glucose, the way that

20:55

it wants it after the age of

20:57

forty, along with the endocrine changes and

20:59

the psychological. Changes We want to be

21:01

thinking about the entire Pie network were

21:04

or folks that are going through Menopause.

21:06

I think it's so helpful to be

21:08

thinking broadly as opposed to just focusing

21:11

narrowly, which in many instances. Is the

21:13

way that kind of traditional allopathic madison

21:15

can look. At these problems and these

21:17

concerns is something that I thought

21:19

was really interesting was looking at

21:21

the research and you do such

21:23

a beautiful job leaving the since

21:25

the book itself talking about how

21:27

there's not enough research done on

21:29

women certainly not in this area.

21:31

There's a lack of gender representation

21:33

but when a sound interesting was

21:35

that when you were looking at

21:37

men in combat verses women with

21:39

sexual assault they behave similarly. After

21:41

these traumatic events in a the

21:44

hyper rounds all the reeks variance.

21:46

In the void in. The numbing. And is

21:48

there anything that helps explain this because

21:50

seemingly they seem so diametrically opposed. Obviously

21:52

great insults on both sides and indices

21:54

looking at men that had fought in

21:57

Vietnam and my dad a Serbian on

21:59

that. But their experiences with later

22:01

developing Ptsd were very similar. Despite

22:03

very different traumatic experiences, I would

22:05

say we're still at a learning

22:07

to crawl states in terms of

22:09

understanding some of the sex suffering

22:11

scenes in a way that those

22:14

who are assigned female earth, those

22:16

that are assigned male at birth

22:18

respond. To traumatic events we

22:20

do. Know that if you

22:22

take no more modern picture with.

22:24

Military service.men and women exposed

22:27

to the same trauma. Women.

22:29

Have higher rates of post traumatic

22:32

stress disorder so there's the vulnerability

22:34

that women hours and I sometimes

22:36

will say that beans emails to

22:38

sell outs or at least in

22:40

a culture that we were in

22:42

an there are some it's evidence

22:45

about. This is just one line

22:47

of evidence in terms of sexual

22:49

assault vs. military service and progress

22:51

and to post traumatic stress disorder

22:53

and even you know once again

22:55

I went abroad nurse because I

22:58

had her soul Pts see. There's

23:00

a few reasons for that, but

23:02

I see a lot of patience.

23:04

You are not classic Ptsd. They

23:06

don't need all criteria that they've

23:08

got pearsall or sub threshhold Tcs

23:10

In this another place where I

23:12

really want our listeners to consider

23:14

whether that might be true for

23:16

them: Hyper arousal? maybe I'm Greek

23:19

during seen some trauma, kind of

23:21

going over conversations or fights conflicts

23:23

that she had a sissy. All

23:25

it's you can have the way

23:27

that your biology gets disturbed by

23:29

three experiencing. So we know that

23:31

women are exposed to sexual violence

23:33

at much higher rates than men.

23:35

And as the polling me when

23:38

I look at the numbers and

23:40

I've got two daughters one's nineteen,

23:42

the others twenty four. and it

23:44

just breaks my heart to see

23:46

how high the rates are mostly

23:48

among teenagers, women, college aged women,

23:50

but really, women of all ages.

23:53

So yes, the women are exposed

23:55

more to sexual violence, men are

23:57

exposed more to physical violence, and

23:59

it's. And. No see that the. End results

24:01

and of the final com and pathway

24:03

is actually pretty similar between the two,

24:06

other women have higher rates of it

24:08

in response to particular exposure. It's really

24:10

interesting and I think as I have

24:12

children that are now teenagers, one going

24:15

off to college and having conversations obviously

24:17

their mail that having conversations that them

24:19

dead in, the exposure to things said

24:21

will happen in college has been aware

24:23

and cognisant of. you know, where they

24:26

are and parties, what they're doing. being

24:28

aware of one another I think is

24:30

so important. And I sounds as I

24:32

was considering the know what we would

24:35

talk about today because there's so much

24:37

information here. a plethora of information said

24:39

Discuss that what is so. Important.

24:41

About Trauma is. Understanding

24:44

That's a lot of the behavioral

24:46

mechanisms that I know. You and

24:48

I share ways that we worked

24:50

around our trauma. As you know

24:52

achievement was something that in in

24:54

my house if I achieved I

24:56

was left alone and there I

24:58

was in and involved in a

25:00

lot of the verbal and physical

25:02

things that happened at home. but

25:04

in many ways these paper independence,

25:07

the autonomy. the achievements is highly

25:09

valued in these dysfunctional families as

25:11

it makes a child or adult

25:13

easier to. Manage when they have little

25:15

to no needs. That hit me so hard

25:17

it made so much sense that I'm sure

25:19

there are many people listening that understanding as

25:22

that's how you survive that experience and many

25:24

people go many different directions. But that was

25:26

how I kind of had that experience and

25:29

I think in many ways it probably drove

25:31

me into health care. You're helping others, serving

25:33

others with something that was very heart centered.

25:35

The what a sound really interesting. In addition

25:38

to the super Autonomous Self Sufficiency which is

25:40

the new term for me was it understand

25:42

that health. Care providers and teachers have

25:44

some of the highest rates. Of

25:46

burn outs and yet we know we come

25:48

out of this pandemic. We've talked around the

25:51

pandemic a little bit but understanding the the

25:53

degree of burnout see of individuals that has

25:55

very. likely headed ensue career paths said

25:57

serve their soul and in many ways

26:00

or healing them as a byproduct

26:02

of this achievement orientation, but they're also

26:04

the highest rates of burnout and yet

26:06

many of us probably don't understand that.

26:08

The people that are serving others in

26:10

many ways are the ones at greatest

26:12

risk for this continued

26:14

dysregulation of their autonomic nervous system,

26:17

of their pine system if you

26:19

will. That's a critical

26:21

point and yes, it feels like

26:23

there's a way that childhood trauma

26:25

can shape you in this direction.

26:27

That sounds like your experience is

26:29

similar to my experience in that I

26:32

learned how to over function. I learned

26:34

how to achieve and succeed academically. I

26:36

tried to achieve athletically but that didn't

26:38

go so well and it maps

26:41

to so many future

26:43

behaviors and career choices.

26:46

So you're absolutely right, nurses,

26:48

physicians, other healthcare workers, first

26:50

responders, teachers, we're the ones

26:53

with the highest rates of

26:55

burnout. I think much of

26:57

it relates to over functioning

27:00

and how much of that then connects

27:02

to adverse childhood experiences or maybe trauma

27:04

as an adult. It's a little hard

27:07

to tease that apart but over functioning

27:09

was a huge part of my story

27:11

and I didn't even recognize it until

27:14

I would say maybe my 30s

27:16

when I was having kids and I

27:18

you know, that's when I first recognized

27:20

that my cortisol was a hot mess.

27:23

And my stress hormones were really, my pattern

27:25

was that they were really high and this

27:27

is classic for women who are in healthcare.

27:29

So really high cortisol and not just by

27:32

a little bit but like two to three

27:34

fold higher than the upper limit of normal.

27:36

And so I could work with that. You

27:38

know, I found ways to improve it. I

27:40

became a certified yoga teacher,

27:43

started meditating every

27:45

single morning. I

27:47

took supplements that helped me with my cortisol

27:49

but then I would get bent on a

27:51

shape pretty easily because I wasn't

27:54

resolving the trauma signature that was in

27:56

my body. I have a sister who's

27:58

a teacher. teaches in

28:00

elementary school and she's got a

28:02

similar story. I mean, especially post

28:04

pandemic, she works with a really

28:06

diverse population in Oregon

28:09

and she's got a lot of trauma among

28:12

the kids that she's taking care of. And

28:14

she's got a really big classroom. She's a

28:16

public school teacher. It's a lot to manage.

28:19

I also volunteer with the

28:22

nonprofit that is bringing head

28:24

mean assisted therapy to first

28:27

responders. And you look at

28:29

firefighters as an example of the amount

28:31

of trauma that they're managing, especially with

28:33

the climate crisis that we have right

28:35

now. There are ways that

28:38

we're more vulnerable and more dysregulated

28:40

than ever before. And so starting

28:42

to recognize that dysregulation, starting to

28:44

understand your own exposure to trauma,

28:46

maybe knowing what your adverse childhood

28:48

experiences score is, that's a really

28:50

good place to start. And then

28:52

starting to look at the ways

28:54

that you over function. For

28:56

me, fixing my cortisol would get

28:58

me like two steps forward and

29:01

then one step back.

29:03

It didn't really solve the

29:05

problem. Supplements, even some of

29:07

the behaviors that we know are good would

29:09

only get me so far. And I had

29:11

to really address the trauma in my tissues,

29:14

kind of the issues in my tissues

29:16

in a different way, a novel way

29:18

to start to see differences in my

29:20

downstream behavior, differences in who I am

29:23

in the world, differences in the way

29:25

that I serve, that I could start

29:27

to function instead of over functioning. Yeah,

29:30

thank you for your transparency because I

29:32

think it makes things so much more

29:34

relatable when we're able to share about

29:37

our own experiences. I think for whether

29:39

it's people that work in high risk

29:41

OB or dealing with obstetrical gynecologic emergencies,

29:43

the ER, I think for many of

29:46

us, we gravitate towards we like the

29:48

thrill of that stress. And

29:50

maybe that serves us well in our 20s and 30s. And

29:53

then as we're getting older, we're like, okay, I

29:55

don't think I need quite that much Stress

29:57

in my life. I Need to find other ways to

29:59

be stimulated. Id and I think of the deaver

30:01

mass if. We didn't address some of

30:04

the and as. Laws. Of

30:06

the traditional allopathic model as

30:08

it pertains to trauma and

30:10

you do such a beautiful

30:12

job talking about this. You

30:14

know much of traditional allopathic

30:16

medicine and let me be

30:18

clear, there's clearly for urgent,

30:20

emergent needs. Allopathic Madison really

30:22

does a great job, but

30:24

for trauma therapy in a

30:26

chronic stable condition, preventative care

30:28

sometimes we need a little

30:30

bit more support and were

30:32

very pharmaceutical he driven and

30:34

so it's. My understanding that the

30:37

traditional pills or pharmaceuticals are not

30:39

really particularly adept at addressing trauma

30:41

and so perhaps kind of talking

30:43

about it. they are in a

30:45

talk about the bottom, the top

30:47

down, the bottom up kind of

30:49

approaches to care. What are some

30:51

of the more traditional ways of

30:54

addressing trauma and what are some

30:56

of the new emerging science around

30:58

and Dna things that I think

31:00

a really fascinating but other ways

31:02

that we can look at addressing

31:04

this in a proactive. Manner Surfer

31:06

Sings is the standard of care

31:09

or post traumatic Stress Disorder As

31:11

an epic, a sea of about

31:13

thirty percent, so seventy percent of

31:15

people with Ptsd get treated with

31:18

the standard of care and that

31:20

includes sometimes selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

31:22

There's three that are up to

31:25

a proves for Ptsd and usually

31:27

talk therapy increasingly or trauma informed

31:29

therapy but scared of care and

31:31

inefficacy. A thirty percent assigned to

31:34

be a. His novel

31:36

treatments and a sweat Really.might? say.

31:38

Plus, years ago, his novel treatments

31:41

like you mentioned, empty may assisted

31:43

therapy for Ptsd are more than

31:46

double as as actors, So that's

31:48

what really caught my attention. It

31:50

got me to. Wanna. Look

31:52

at. Trauma. End.

31:56

ways to and mean modulator other

31:58

way of modulating the Pine Network.

32:01

But this is a really important

32:03

thing to understand and I appreciate

32:05

that you're not throwing the conventional

32:07

medicine that you and I trained

32:09

in under the bus because we

32:12

don't want to do that. You

32:14

know, I love my conventional colleagues.

32:17

I trained along with them. They're

32:19

essential for acute problems. And yet

32:21

when you take a chronic health

32:23

condition like post-traumatic stress disorder or

32:25

one of the 45 chronic

32:28

health conditions associated with higher

32:30

adverse childhood experiences scores, modern medicine

32:33

just doesn't do a very good

32:35

job. So this efficacy that we

32:37

see with talk therapy, why is that? Why

32:39

is it that it doesn't work very well?

32:41

And why wasn't I informed when I started

32:43

it in my 20s and I was in

32:45

my medical training,

32:47

I had an episode of depression

32:49

and I started talk therapy. And I

32:52

feel like if I was told at that time that

32:55

my trauma was predicting my risk

32:57

of depression, that talk

32:59

therapy would in some

33:01

ways reinforce and kind of

33:04

get me to re-experience a lot of my

33:06

trauma without actually healing it and that there

33:08

was a different part of the brain where

33:10

the healing happened and the talk therapy didn't

33:12

really talk to that part of the brain.

33:14

If I had known that, I wouldn't

33:16

have spent weekly, very

33:18

expensive time going to

33:20

talk therapy. So these

33:22

more novel treatments are really interesting

33:24

and it's not just that we

33:26

need MDMA

33:28

assisted therapy for people

33:31

who've got post-traumatic stress disorder. When

33:33

we start to look at some of these

33:36

novel treatments, many of which are ancient

33:39

and are used by indigenous practitioners,

33:42

they definitely have a role in

33:45

terms of helping us with regulation,

33:47

helping us with the signature of

33:49

trauma, helping us with post-traumatic stress

33:51

disorder. So there's

33:54

now two phase three Randomized

33:57

trials that are published by

33:59

MAPS. Yeah. And the

34:01

operators are they worked with my hat

34:03

and be amazed he stood. There

34:05

be in people with post Traumatic

34:08

stress disorder the first one so

34:10

that with two to three sessions

34:12

said Mdm, he assisted therapy together

34:14

with preparation and integration. As soon

34:17

as recession's leds you two thirds

34:19

of subjects no longer meeting criteria

34:21

for Pts see so I saw

34:23

that night just felt like okay,

34:26

we've gotta pay attention as and

34:28

I read it as a person

34:30

who's been utterly square all of

34:32

my life so I didn't smoke

34:35

pot. In high school or college

34:37

and in take any psychedelic medicines.

34:39

It wasn't until I was fifty

34:41

answer to look at the state

34:44

are I felt like ah there's

34:46

something here And then there was

34:48

some criticism So that first phase

34:50

three trial was mostly away population

34:53

people with severe Ptsd so than

34:55

a second trial was spotless so

34:57

he not with moderate to severe

34:59

Ptsd and with his the percent

35:02

non white population that seventy one

35:04

percent no longer metro. Area

35:06

for Ptsd. So there's an opportunity

35:08

here that we out to be

35:10

paying attention to know it's really

35:12

exciting and ironically just by pure

35:14

Happen Sounds on Netflix. Michael Pollan

35:16

has a documentary looking at Lsd

35:18

and the i may I was

35:20

gonna cod and and watching adds

35:23

a set of pure curiosity and

35:25

I was saying to my husband

35:27

i had no idea how you

35:29

know in the Nineteen sixties, last

35:31

into the early seventies said there

35:33

was ongoing research with these kinds

35:35

as therapies. And out of an

35:37

abundance of fear were ignorance or

35:39

a multiplicity of other things that

35:41

occurred to were all shelved and

35:44

put largely a schedule One drug

35:46

says there's no therapeutic banner said

35:48

find it very exciting that the

35:50

a proper utilization of these drug

35:52

therapies had the ability to help

35:54

so many people and I think

35:56

that that's incredibly encouraging from my

35:58

perspective when you. Look at you

36:00

know there's so much money and pharmaceuticals.

36:02

I think some things you quote in

36:05

the both that Pfizer makes two hundred

36:07

and sixty seven billion dollars worth of

36:09

profit sauces, one drug Eli Lilly makes

36:11

three hundred and thirty four billion from

36:13

Cyprus Sir Dead. It just made me

36:15

realize that there's so much money and

36:17

in pushing pharmaceuticals. the yeah we now

36:19

have these alternative set for many individuals

36:21

may be life altering for them and

36:23

so when we're looking at sea know

36:25

those are possibilities that are emerging which

36:27

I think is so exciting when we're

36:29

looking. At a valley waiting a piece

36:31

sense for these types as therapies are looking

36:34

at this regulation in their physiology and a

36:36

have touched on some of the hormones When

36:38

we're looking at things like wearable doing imaging,

36:40

king it sleep studies as an example, a

36:43

thing for a lot of us to have

36:45

or rings in a One of the most

36:47

common questions I receive from women is how

36:49

to improve my deep sleep. And you talk

36:51

about this in the book In particular, looking

36:54

at that health the what are some the

36:56

diagnostics and and some of the emerging treatment

36:58

modalities that you're excited about. Things that you

37:00

feel like her are very helpful for you

37:02

as a clinician. When you're working with

37:04

your patience to be able to provide

37:07

them the answers they need and deserve

37:09

to be able to move forward in

37:11

treatments. I practice practice of medicine so

37:13

diagnostics are a huge part of the

37:16

work that I do and I think

37:18

you start with measuring trauma. You start

37:20

with looking at adversaries experiences and a

37:22

good thing is is questionnaires are so

37:25

that experiences is available in the public

37:27

to me and if you wanna see

37:29

one but I put together on my

37:31

website to make. it super easy

37:33

and google search got a score

37:36

insecure score so i think knowing

37:38

which here to that exposure was

37:40

it's not a perfect test but

37:42

it's highly validated i think that's

37:44

where he serves and then you

37:46

want to look at okay what's

37:48

the signature of that trauma that

37:50

sure expose your and that includes

37:52

looking at things like some basic

37:54

immune to us if we go

37:56

through the pint network i would

37:58

put trauma hundred psychology at least

38:01

initially. And for the immune system, a

38:03

lot of the testing that we do

38:05

hasn't changed in 40 to 50 years,

38:07

which I think is appalling, but it

38:09

seems like doing a complete blood count

38:12

with a differential and looking at your

38:14

neutrophil to lymphocyte ratio, NLR. This is

38:16

a way of looking at inflammatory tone,

38:18

like how much you're inflamed. And with

38:20

my ora ring, I was noticing that

38:23

it's a little harder for me to

38:25

get my ring off my finger after

38:27

spending a weekend in Los Angeles. And

38:29

that's how I know that I'm inflamed,

38:32

because normally this just slips right off

38:34

my fingers. I've got some puffiness, some

38:36

inflammation in my fingers. So

38:38

inflammation is one of those signs

38:40

that we're looking for chronic inflammation

38:42

related to the immune system. You

38:45

can also look at things like high sensitivity C-reactive

38:47

protein, you can look at the

38:49

erythrocyte sedimentation rate, ESR. And then

38:51

when you think about inflammation, where's

38:53

it coming from? 70% of the

38:55

immune system is in your gut.

38:57

So when I see inflammation, I

38:59

want to look at the gut.

39:01

I want to do stool testing.

39:03

This is more advanced, but things

39:06

like I use the Wengebity gut

39:08

biotest. I use a lot of

39:10

different labs in terms of looking

39:12

for dysbiosis, increased intestinal permeability. There's

39:14

certain bacteria that are more associated

39:16

with developing autoimmunity. And so knowing

39:18

that about your gut can be helpful.

39:20

And then with the neurological system and

39:22

heart rate variability, I think that's so

39:24

valuable to track. And for some people,

39:26

just having that composite score that you

39:28

get with an ora ring or a

39:31

garment or a whoop can be really

39:33

helpful because then you can do an

39:35

upon experiments and see what's helpful. Things

39:37

like, oh, if I have a shot

39:39

of tequila, my HRV goes down by

39:41

half. If I get my magnesium and

39:43

I don't have a shot of tequila,

39:45

my HRV goes up pretty significantly. So

39:47

doing those kind of experiments, I think, can

39:49

be really helpful. And then The E

39:51

part of the Pine system, I Like to

39:54

do a Dutch plus in pretty much every

39:56

patient that I see. So I'm looking at

39:58

Cortisol, you can do. The salivary cortisol

40:01

you can do try to earn.

40:03

I like that that was because

40:05

it gives me a picture in

40:07

both men and women as what's

40:09

going on with cortisol it four

40:11

or five points during the day

40:13

including the middle deny it isn't

40:15

saw me as an issue which

40:17

affects twists many women and men

40:19

and then it'll still say about

40:21

the metabolites metabolite of cortisol cortisone

40:23

and it tells me about metabolites

40:25

of sex were months including assertions

40:27

and they Anderson's and a little

40:29

bit of organic acid test. Seen

40:31

those systems diagnostics that I liked

40:33

years and then you mentioned deep

40:35

sleep When I started to really

40:37

look at the microbiome you know

40:39

media is teen years ago and

40:41

I started her address my own

40:43

microbiome issues at a loss of

40:45

diversity related to antibiotic usage as

40:47

I sir is do got rehoboth

40:50

I noticed that my deep fried

40:52

more than doubled so I aim

40:54

for deep sleep about two hours

40:56

when I'm on my game which

40:58

during a Brooklyn says you know.

41:00

Not every night but I

41:02

was amazed that got Seung

41:05

Sahn mouth so directly sleep.

41:08

And. On Sunday really challenge or listeners

41:10

to consider and track at they're

41:12

looking at sleep metrics. Weekend.

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44:32

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44:35

questions on social media, my team gets a

44:37

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44:39

an hour of deep sleep and I always

44:41

say you need to work on that. And

44:43

so for many individuals, they aren't sleeping enough.

44:46

They're not in a cold dark room. They're,

44:48

as you mentioned, they're waking at night.

44:50

I do find, and I'm curious to

44:52

know if this is what you see

44:54

with your patients as well, but women

44:57

in menopause that are in HRT

44:59

generally tend to have better sleep

45:01

scores, better HRV. That

45:03

has certainly been my clinical experience. But

45:05

I find the deep sleep is the

45:08

challenge that many women in particular experience.

45:10

My husband falls asleep and stays asleep

45:12

and has no issues and he's a

45:14

couple of years older than me. But

45:16

I found for myself, the deep sleep as I've

45:18

been working on my gut, but also my hydration

45:20

status has a huge impact on the amount

45:22

of deep sleep that I get. I aim

45:24

like you for two hours. If I get

45:27

less than that, there's usually a reason. It

45:29

could sometimes be whatever I

45:31

ate or drank. Maybe I ate

45:33

too close to bedtime. Maybe there's a

45:35

little bit of prevailing stress that I'm

45:37

not acknowledging that's going on. Now,

45:39

something that I think is exciting and

45:42

mentioned this in the book are certain

45:44

treatment options. Something that I probably

45:46

haven't spoken about on the podcast with

45:48

any frequency is low-dose naltrexone as being

45:51

one of these therapies. This is something that

45:53

I've actually taken that's probably been the one

45:55

thing that's helped get my thyroid properly regulated.

45:57

I had about three years where it wasn't.

46:00

particularly therapeutic, but let's talk about

46:02

what makes low-dose naltrexone so different

46:04

than some other modalities and how

46:06

it can be beneficial in kind

46:08

of quieting the immune response in

46:10

the body. Well, I might need

46:12

to riff with you on this one

46:14

because I prescribe it and I

46:16

feel like as a scientist, I

46:19

don't know that we really understand

46:21

what it is that it's doing.

46:23

So it's affecting a number of

46:25

the signaling pathways in the brain

46:27

and also in the immune system.

46:29

So naltrexone is used at higher

46:32

doses for a number of indications.

46:34

It's used for opioid use disorder

46:36

and increasingly I'm seeing it, at least

46:38

out here in the Bay Area, used

46:41

for dissociation. So I talk in

46:43

the book about my own functional

46:45

dissociation. It was part of a

46:48

trauma response. I would just go cognitive,

46:50

kind of hyper cognitive to deal with problems

46:52

and just ignore my body from the waist

46:54

down. And so naltrexone at

46:57

higher doses, like 50 to 100

46:59

milligrams, can be helpful for dissociation.

47:01

At lower doses, so I typically

47:03

start around 1.5 milligrams. Sometimes when

47:05

people arrive, it's going to be

47:07

even lower and I build up

47:09

to 4.5 to 5 milligrams. It's

47:12

remarkable how much it can

47:14

affect the immune system. The mechanism of

47:16

it, you might know a little bit

47:18

better than me. I've looked at the

47:21

science on this and it's not quite

47:23

where I would like it to be.

47:25

I feel like we don't have randomized

47:27

trials. We've got mostly empiric information and

47:29

small studies showing that it's beneficial in

47:32

autoimmune disease. But I use it quite a

47:34

bit in mostly Hashimoto's.

47:37

I've got patients with type

47:39

1 diabetes, psoriasis, rheumatoid

47:41

arthritis. Those are the ones in whom I'm

47:43

using it. So what about you? You might

47:45

know the mechanism a little better than me.

47:47

No, I mean it's funny. I had this

47:49

conversation with my functional medicine doc and he

47:51

said, Cynthia, we don't fully understand or appreciate

47:54

how it works in low doses. He said,

47:56

but what I will tell you is that

47:58

when it works, it works beautifully. and

48:00

then sometimes I can't explain why it doesn't

48:02

work. I think the irony is I recently

48:04

had a new medical provider and I had

48:06

to go over my medication list and the

48:08

nurse I was talking to looked at me

48:10

and she didn't catch that I said low

48:12

dose Naltrexone. And she said, oh, I

48:14

didn't realize you were in recovery. And I said, no, no,

48:16

no, no, no. I said, I'm taking this from my point.

48:18

But it was because in many instances

48:21

it's used for different reasons. This is

48:23

more one of those off label, quieting

48:25

the immune response. I too kind of look at

48:27

it as it's been a blessing for me, but

48:30

I understand that it hasn't consistently been

48:32

consistent with other individuals, but I know

48:34

that it's been helpful certainly in my

48:36

circumstances. What are some of

48:38

the other assisted therapies that you

48:41

like to talk to your patients about?

48:43

Things like these polyphenol rich compounds that

48:45

can be of benefit, dietary changes. I

48:48

know I always say it all starts

48:50

with food and the same applies to

48:52

this over activation of

48:54

the pine, dealing with trauma, et cetera.

48:57

There's certainly benefits to providing inflammation in

48:59

the body. What are some of your

49:01

favorite kind of polyphenols that you utilize

49:03

with your patients? Yeah, I've got a

49:05

food first philosophy as well. And

49:08

the day after I met you in New

49:10

York, I saw one of my

49:12

clients the next day who's been

49:14

having some gut issues, kind of

49:17

some early signs of autoimmune, an

49:19

autoimmune process. And so

49:21

we put her on an

49:23

elimination diet. And a well

49:25

constructed elimination diet is incredibly

49:27

effective when you're someone who's

49:29

reacting to your environment, especially

49:31

the foods that you're eating.

49:33

So that's of course gluten

49:35

and dairy and usually nightshades.

49:38

That's no seeds, which a

49:40

lot of people don't wanna give up, but

49:42

the moment that she gave up these foods,

49:45

within 24 hours, she felt better. Her

49:47

gut symptoms resolved. And so I see

49:49

that quite a bit. So you asked

49:51

about polyphenols and part of what we're

49:54

talking about here is immunomodulators. That's kind

49:56

of a fancy term for things. You

49:59

Know, there's more. The and fifty thousand molecules in

50:01

the food so he eats and many

50:03

of them can now be spent. Official

50:05

attacks on the immune system. We know

50:07

for instance getting five to seven colors

50:10

of the rainbow each day with the

50:12

flu. The jury that's where the best

50:14

things you can do for the immune

50:16

system. So with policy analyst with the

50:18

things that you know what the pick

50:20

Manson foods that makes fruits and vegetables

50:22

so colorful. They can really help in

50:24

terms of the. Been some you know

50:27

what I add. A period of time

50:29

where I was really working on Ackerman

50:31

Cr in my patient populations. I had

50:33

a lot of professional athletes and executives

50:36

and just kind of everyday folk who

50:38

would do a soul to us. and

50:40

they had no Ackerman via an acrimonious

50:43

important for a lotta different functions are

50:45

so you know in the early stages

50:47

of understanding these individual bacteria and what

50:50

they do in the body. But the

50:52

things that after Bonzi A really loves

50:54

or cranberries. An Pomegranates and

50:57

so with my and B A

50:59

players I would start making smoothies

51:01

with these particular ingredients in you

51:03

know, overtime. You can see some

51:06

improvements in terms of got health

51:08

and reduce inflammation in better Immune

51:10

from Spain so there's ways to

51:13

make that easier. I also have

51:15

a person who's in the book

51:17

the same as Larry who had

51:19

chronic disease so one of the

51:22

Blimps, rebel diseases otter the indices

51:24

and T. A for a better

51:26

Me at other segments of is Colin Remote

51:28

The Atlantic Crumbs, And. one of

51:31

the things he did afterwards he added

51:33

i sim city see rak to protein

51:35

i was in the twenties so a

51:37

lot of chronic inflammation his body and

51:39

he the plan through his worked at

51:41

university of california san diego that he

51:43

was gonna start making a poly phenol

51:45

rich sleepy and drink it every and

51:47

so leery as a little bit overboard

51:49

use one of the fathers of super

51:52

computers but here we go to the

51:54

farmers' market that he'd get a pinch

51:56

of us into that in debt about

51:58

fifty seven different species of some vegetables

52:00

and then make a smoothie out of it and freeze

52:02

it and then drink four to six ounces a day.

52:04

So you don't have to do 57 species,

52:07

that's probably overkill, but those

52:09

polyphenols have completely transformed his

52:11

microbiome. He's been in remission

52:14

now for, let's see, eight

52:16

years. And so polyphenols can

52:18

really make the difference in

52:20

terms of immunomodulation. And, you

52:22

know, there's other immunomodulators too.

52:24

We talked about lutose cell

52:27

track zone, there's vitamin D,

52:29

there's curcumin. A lot of

52:31

these act on the inflammasome, kind

52:33

of this inflammatory process that occurs

52:35

in the body, to help to

52:37

decrease the amount of inflammation, to

52:39

get the immune system to settle

52:41

down, to not be so dysregulated.

52:43

And it can be really effective.

52:46

And I would also put psychedelic

52:48

medicine in that category. Healing states

52:50

of consciousness can be immunomodulatory. And

52:52

you don't have to take MDMA

52:54

or, you know, do ayahuasca or

52:56

microdose on psilocybin. You can do

52:58

it with breath work. You can

53:00

do it with orgasm. There's lots

53:02

of ways to enter healing states

53:04

of consciousness. I think it's

53:06

so important for people to know

53:08

that there are many options. It

53:10

is not just food-based, it is

53:12

not just medication-based. I find somatic

53:15

therapies really fascinating. I find breath

53:17

work really exciting. You know, I

53:19

went down a rabbit hole and

53:21

was reading more into this holotrophic

53:23

breath work, trying to locate someone

53:25

in my area. And we kind

53:28

of end the conversation talking about

53:30

these somaticized therapies and how they

53:32

can be very instrumental in quieting

53:34

the autonomic nervous system, helping

53:36

us get into a state where we

53:38

are more body aware with

53:41

the sensations and then also in this

53:43

more peaceful state. And this holotrophic breath

53:46

work in particular, and I challenge listeners to

53:48

go check this out because I found it

53:50

very interesting. It's definitely something that I will

53:52

be looking into. But how important this breath

53:54

work really is. It's not just box breathing,

53:56

which I'm a huge fan of, but there's

53:58

more to it. or ventilatory

54:00

state that can be very,

54:02

very beneficial. That's right. So, polytrophic

54:05

breath work is super interesting.

54:07

I went to American Academy of

54:09

Anti-Aging Medicine Conference about three years ago.

54:11

And they had a dome where they

54:14

were teaching this form of breath work.

54:16

And I went in a total skeptic.

54:18

I'd been in Las Vegas for about

54:20

three days. And after three days in

54:22

Las Vegas, I'm highly sensitive. I'm just

54:25

kind of climbing the walls because of casinos and

54:28

noise and smoking and all these things that you're

54:30

exposed to. So I walk in there. I've got

54:32

a low grade headache. I'm not sleeping well. And

54:34

I'm like, I don't know about this. Inside

54:37

of 20 minutes, my

54:39

entire matrix was changed.

54:41

And so I can't totally explain

54:43

it. I mean, yes, my heart

54:46

rate variability went up. Yes, I

54:48

was able to do some deep

54:50

abdominal breathing. There's specific

54:52

changes that occur with holotropic

54:54

breathing that are salient and

54:56

helpful for the body. But

54:58

that started me toward doing

55:00

a holotropic breath work four

55:02

times a week for several

55:04

years. So you mentioned also

55:06

somatic therapy. And the idea

55:08

here is your sense of embodiment.

55:10

Like, how much are you someone, like I

55:12

used to be, where you're kind of up

55:14

here most of the time. That's how you

55:16

interact with the world. I call it kind

55:18

of going upstairs and staying upstairs. Or

55:21

are you someone who's really integrating and

55:23

has a sense of the signals that

55:25

your body is sending? So those are

55:27

the signals, as you described, that we

55:30

learn to ignore. And as part

55:32

of being a nurse, as part of

55:34

being a physician, in your training to

55:36

become a nurse practitioner, we're taught to

55:38

ignore all of those signals. And so

55:40

sometimes it takes a particular effort to

55:43

learn how to be fully embodied. And

55:45

that's where somatic therapy can be so

55:48

helpful. And there's a lot of different

55:50

flavors of this. I like

55:52

Hacomi, and I've gone through

55:54

the level one certification of

55:56

Hacomi. It's considered to be

55:58

somatic mindfulness-based self-care. self-explorementation,

56:01

self-exploration and

56:03

self-experimentation. There's

56:05

also somatic experiencing, there's EMDR,

56:07

there's the neuroemotional technique, something

56:09

that we study at Thomas

56:11

Jefferson University quite a bit.

56:13

So I think that these

56:15

ways of working can be

56:17

really critical and one of

56:20

my teachers that I've worked

56:22

with for years with

56:24

breath work talks about how we

56:26

make our own medicine when we're

56:29

in that healing state of consciousness.

56:31

So that 20 minutes of holodriopic breathing,

56:33

you're making your own medicine like what

56:35

you most need personally to heal and

56:37

to feel embodied and to notice these

56:40

fluctuations that occur in your body that

56:42

you might sort of theme roll through

56:44

or at least you were taught to

56:46

do that. So it's really a different

56:48

way of being, you know, when you

56:51

look at embodiment as a virtue as

56:53

something that we really want, it changes

56:55

everything. Absolutely and I think for so

56:57

many of us that are on this

57:00

journey because it really is a journey of

57:02

life, helping to figure out what we need

57:04

at that stage in our lives and this

57:06

is certainly the stage for myself where very

57:08

transparently these are things that I need to

57:10

be doing. This is the kind of work

57:13

that's the next step for me to continue

57:15

with my healing journey. Dr. Gottfried, please let

57:17

listeners know how to connect with you on

57:19

social media, how to get access to your amazing

57:21

new book, how to work with you because I know

57:23

that you're still working on the East and

57:25

West Coast, how to work with you if

57:27

they would like to become a patient of

57:29

yours. The best place to get the book

57:32

is wherever books are sold. So

57:34

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, your local independent

57:36

bookseller. The place that I hang out

57:38

on social media is mostly Instagram.

57:40

I've got daughters that they are trying

57:42

to get me to get back on TikTok and

57:44

like, you know, rebrand or I don't even know

57:47

what I'm supposed to do over there but I

57:49

might do that sometime in the next

57:51

few weeks. And then my website is

57:53

syrukoffreadmd.com. That's where kind

57:56

of the mothership, that's where a lot of

57:58

this is housed including the A-squared. or

58:00

if people wanna take that. So that's

58:02

where I hang out and are you

58:04

on TikTok? I should hang out with

58:07

you on TikTok. Yes, you should. I

58:09

am there, but I generally let my

58:11

team post because I feel like trying

58:13

to navigate multiple platforms is challenging. And

58:15

I acknowledge that colleagues of ours are

58:18

blowing up on TikTok because they're there, but

58:20

you have to really, it's like a consistency

58:22

piece that I just feel like I haven't

58:24

hit my stride yet. I feel a sense

58:26

of obligation. And so I keep telling my

58:28

team, if I'm gonna be active on there, it's

58:30

gonna have to be you all. At

58:32

least getting things started so that

58:34

I'm there consistently. Yeah, so hang

58:36

out with Cynthia and I on

58:38

Instagram. That's where we are most

58:41

of the time. Yes, thank you

58:43

so much. If

58:46

you love this podcast episode, please leave a

58:48

rating and review, subscribe and tell

58:50

a friend. Thank you.