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VMware. The smarter way to cloud.

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Learn more at VMware.com.

0:27

This episode contains strong language

0:29

and adult themes, including drug use,

0:31

and won't be suitable for little ears.

0:40

Urban myths. Stories or

0:42

statements that are not true, but

0:44

are often repeated and believed by many.

0:47

Some people believe the idea of a soulmate

0:49

to be one of these urban myths. That

0:52

there's one person on this planet meant

0:54

for each of us. But according

0:56

to Steve, this concept was as real

0:59

as they come.

0:59

I proposed

1:02

writing William Marramee on the sand

1:04

at sunrise. It was all very romantic

1:06

and beautiful. Like I'd actually

1:08

planned it. I bought a Tiffany ring. I'd

1:11

made a big thing of it because I was

1:14

trying to make a romantic gesture. And

1:18

he was over the moon. He was just like,

1:20

oh my God, this is amazing. It

1:24

was kind of fairy tale level stuff.

1:27

But what about that urban myth, you

1:29

know the one, the one where you put a frog

1:31

in a pot of water and when you gradually

1:34

heat it, the frog will stay there, not

1:36

realizing it's getting hot until it

1:38

boils to death.

1:40

Small changes that build up to big ones.

1:42

And by that stage, you just don't know

1:45

how to get out. I was

1:47

not confident enough to be on my own because I didn't

1:49

know what on my own was. And

1:52

the fear of leaving that situation

1:54

meant that I had financial obligations.

1:57

I had just life.

1:59

obligations that there didn't seem to

2:01

be a path out of

2:04

it, I'd almost invested

2:06

too much in this to find

2:08

a path out.

2:18

I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone

2:20

Has An Ex. Come with me as we dive

2:22

into a collection of unconventional

2:25

stories about relationships passed through

2:27

the eyes and the hearts of the very people

2:29

who lived them.

2:31

Growing up in Australia in the early 90s

2:33

was, it's safe to say, a different

2:36

time. Tamagotchis, school

2:38

dancers, the Spice Girls, dating

2:40

that one girl all through high school because,

2:43

well, that's what you did. Well,

2:46

at least that was the case for Steve.

2:47

She was probably quite

2:50

a big love of my life by then. We'd

2:53

met in year seven, started

2:55

dating in year nine, typical

2:58

high school romance, on

3:00

and off dating till we were effectively 20.

3:05

There was nothing wrong. She was actually a really

3:08

lovely, beautiful person. We

3:11

stayed good friends for a very long time. It

3:13

was never going to work out. Steve knew this,

3:16

but being the 90s, he didn't

3:18

yet feel he could reveal why.

3:20

I think I always knew, but I just

3:23

was so afraid of that idea of being

3:25

gay. It

3:27

was like I would sleep with girls

3:30

just for the sake of saying I could do

3:32

it. I always sort of had

3:34

this inkling, I would rather look

3:36

at the guy when I would watch porn than I

3:38

would prefer looking at the girl. It

3:40

was one of those classic things. I even looked at gay

3:43

porn myself and

3:44

even had a situation where she

3:47

found gay porn on my computer back

3:49

in the days when you had a full on PC

3:51

set up in your bedroom and a private

3:54

folder or your name at schoolwork

3:56

or something. Then they'd go hunkering through

3:58

it and all of a sudden it's like, oh my God. God, there's all this

4:00

gay porn." And it's like, oh yeah,

4:02

I don't know how that got there. At the time, it was

4:04

an environment where you're not comfortable being yourself

4:07

or being out.

4:08

But life otherwise was good for Steve.

4:10

He and his girlfriend were really close to another

4:13

couple, Alex and Jess. They'd

4:15

hang out all the time, as a four

4:17

or even just the guys.

4:19

We hung out as a group.

4:22

We'd get drunk, do all the things that

4:24

18-year-olds do. Because

4:26

I was the only friend that had a driver's license, I ended

4:29

up in the taxi. I,

4:32

where our friendship circle lived, they

4:35

all lived close together. I

4:37

lived about a 40-minute drive because my parents

4:39

had moved, or my mum had moved. And

4:41

so

4:42

we would do this long drive and

4:45

he lived along the way. So I would always end

4:47

up dropping him at home. I'd

4:49

drop everyone else off and then me and him would drive.

4:53

And that's when it started to really

4:55

turn into something. Because

4:57

we'd get talking, we'd sit out in the front of his house,

5:01

when we'd smoke and whatever. And you'd just

5:03

sit in the car, you'd literally just be sitting there

5:06

and just talking. And you'd sit there

5:08

talking for hours on end.

5:11

It was just such an unusual thing

5:13

that

5:14

there was no reason for us to be doing it. Because

5:16

we'd have to get up to school or we'd have to get up

5:18

for work or whatever. And we'd just sit there and

5:20

talk. And I think

5:22

that talking probably meant that we grew

5:24

stronger over time to the point that we'd

5:26

start going out just us. And it wouldn't be

5:28

anything

5:29

too extreme. We'd go to a driving range

5:32

thing, just the two of us. Or we'd

5:34

tell all of our friends, we're going here if you want to catch

5:37

up. It started to end up being

5:39

a little bit us and them.

5:41

Because we'd formed this connection where

5:43

we were just doing things together.

5:46

And then all of a sudden we were friends. And then

5:48

we grew to be

5:49

best friends effectively. But they were

5:52

just friends. Hanging in the car,

5:55

chatting, sitting close to one another,

5:57

the windows fogging up.

5:59

we'd sit out the front of his

6:02

house and just talk

6:05

at lengths about our girlfriends and

6:08

a little bit talked about like, oh,

6:10

you know, I

6:12

don't know whether this is going to work. And

6:14

then

6:14

it kind of got to the point where, you know,

6:17

I think it was, I actually

6:19

don't remember whether it was like me or him

6:22

that took the first step, but as soon as one of us

6:24

did, it actually kind of just got a bit

6:26

hot and passionate in the car. And

6:30

I don't think anything really serious happened,

6:32

but there was definitely a lot of hands, a lot of kissing,

6:34

a

6:35

lot of just, I

6:37

guess that almost teenage

6:40

type vibe that you probably do. Well,

6:42

I know I did it with a girlfriend years

6:44

earlier,

6:45

but then I was doing it with a guy. So it was kind of like

6:48

a different level, I

6:49

think, because this one felt more natural where

6:51

before it was kind of like I'm thinking in

6:53

my head,

6:55

what did they do in those videos and those

6:57

movies where this time I just sort of felt

6:59

like it was just falling into place and

7:01

kind of just felt normal

7:03

for me for once, which

7:06

was nice because it actually was something that I

7:09

did think about.

7:10

Steve felt like suddenly at 20 years

7:12

old, everything finally fell

7:15

into place. Oh my God, clearly

7:17

we're on the same level here. We're doing the

7:19

same thing and we're into the same thing right now.

7:22

And we didn't really have any gay

7:24

friends. So it meant

7:26

we didn't know what gay looked like. So for us, it

7:28

was all of a sudden we had it in each other

7:30

and then it allowed us to

7:33

probably experiment from there on. So

7:36

it was very much just exploring each other, exploring

7:38

each other's bodies. And it happened

7:40

probably the

7:41

odd week here or there. It

7:44

wasn't like a regular scheduled thing and it

7:47

wasn't like every time I dropped him at

7:49

home that it would happen. It was very much

7:51

just a very sporadic type of

7:53

attraction, keeping in mind that in all instances

7:56

neither of us had been drinking.

7:58

So, because I was driving.

8:00

he might have had a drink but

8:02

not really drunk. It was more a,

8:06

you know, we look at the movies or doing something social

8:09

that was not involving something that would

8:11

be consuming. So it really meant

8:13

that

8:14

we were just getting to know each other.

8:16

But it wasn't as simple as just suddenly knowing

8:18

this was what he wanted. He realised

8:21

what he was doing with Alex felt right, but

8:23

he wasn't ready to come out.

8:25

Plus there was still the little issue

8:28

of his girlfriend. Well,

8:30

we were kind of on a break. She

8:33

had been sort of seeing someone and

8:36

then that broke off and we were sort

8:38

of, we weren't hooking up, but we were like spending

8:40

a lot of time together.

8:42

I think she probably thought we were on

8:44

the path back together. So that's why it's a bit

8:46

of an awkward, like, it

8:48

wasn't necessarily a crossover, but, you know, she'd

8:50

just gone through a breakup.

8:52

And then we were sort of doing that mingling thing.

8:55

And then I started again, I

8:56

sort of was mingling with him.

8:59

And then I

9:02

actually ended up cutting it off a bit with him

9:04

and going more in her direction.

9:07

And it

9:10

really hurt him to a degree. You could

9:12

see he was quite upset by me

9:15

kind of trying to move away a little

9:17

bit. And he actually

9:19

then, you know,

9:21

on my 21st birthday,

9:24

he was there and he actually

9:27

took a mutual friend of ours into my

9:29

bedroom at my birthday party. That's

9:32

probably when I realised I did have feelings for

9:34

him. So like

9:37

even talking about it, I kind of like remember

9:39

that I had that like, oh, I

9:42

just felt devastated

9:43

because he'd done that. Then we had a

9:45

big conversation.

9:47

And we had this big conversation about the fact

9:49

that I'd pulled away and he

9:52

was really

9:53

upset and he was trying to

9:55

be a bit revengeful at

9:57

trying to get back at me.

9:59

It really, really was like, okay,

10:03

do we do this or do we not? We've got

10:05

to make a call.

10:07

We

10:10

made the call. We started

10:12

hanging out. I completely broke

10:14

it off with the girl.

10:16

We made

10:18

it try to happen.

10:21

We started,

10:22

I don't know, we met people online not

10:24

to do anything, but just to meet gay

10:26

people. We really had no connection. We

10:29

started hanging out as a couple a little bit. So,

10:31

you know, we went to another friend's

10:33

birthday party. And as

10:36

we were sitting at the,

10:39

as we got to the party, we sort of sat down with everybody,

10:42

having drinks, having, you know, carry

10:44

on and chatting. Then

10:47

he sat on my lap and we started making out and everybody

10:49

kind of just stopped and gasped because

10:51

that was kind of us coming out, was

10:54

here we are. To their relief

10:56

and delight, their friends were happy

10:58

for them. But Steve and Alex weren't

11:00

yet ready to tell everyone in their lives. We,

11:03

none of us had come out to our parents by this stage.

11:05

So it was very much fresh.

11:09

It was very fresh. We were hanging

11:11

out with people that we knew to be gay, that

11:13

we'd sort of met

11:15

to the point that we actually went to

11:18

a club in Western Sydney

11:20

and we were there with

11:22

some of these guys. My

11:25

sister-in-law actually spotted us because she

11:27

was the bouncer that night. So she

11:30

actually seen us at this

11:32

club and decided

11:35

on Christmas Day to tell the

11:37

whole family. Before

11:40

Steve even knew what label he put on himself,

11:43

his sister-in-law did it for him. At 21

11:46

years old, to his small conservative

11:48

family,

11:49

he was outed.

11:51

So it was quite traumatic to come

11:53

out to my family. They were all very upset.

11:55

Everyone was crying.

11:58

It was a whole thing because she kind of...

11:59

kind of like, oh

12:02

my God, okay, I'm not in control of this narrative

12:04

now. I'm going to have to defend myself, having

12:07

family saying, like, oh, you're

12:09

going to be as a hairdresser, you're never going to be successful.

12:12

And it was really, if I really break it down,

12:14

a lot of it is never interacted

12:16

with gay people. So their interactions and their

12:18

knowledge is

12:20

pretty limited.

12:21

So it was at the time really quite

12:24

awful.

12:25

I think

12:26

my family,

12:27

I think

12:30

the shock of it all really is drew

12:32

the whole

12:33

experience in the moment

12:35

because afterwards they became

12:37

very comfortable and they became very okay.

12:40

It was just,

12:41

my mum

12:43

had said to me that she envisaged

12:45

my life. I was going to be this success

12:48

and I was going to have children and she

12:50

just, to have her son

12:52

not

12:53

be able to deliver that

12:55

had sort of shocked her and surprised

12:57

her. And then it was

12:59

time for Alex to tell his

13:01

family.

13:04

And it was literally, they were

13:06

all watching TV one night,

13:08

turned to his parents and went,

13:12

Steve, isn't just a friend. That's

13:15

something else. And

13:18

they just went, you made us turn

13:20

off the TV for this. Can we get back to it? We

13:23

know.

13:24

Which was so lovely. It

13:27

was almost anticlimactic because

13:29

mine had been so dramatic. I was kind of

13:31

a bit like, oh my God, I wish mine

13:33

had gone like that. But

13:36

you know, it should happen. The

13:40

silver lining of this outing meant

13:42

that they drew even closer together. They

13:45

were most comfortable in each other's company

13:47

and they knew that was what they both wanted. We

13:50

ended up

13:51

deciding pretty quickly, we're going to move

13:53

in together.

13:54

It ended up being a little bit more like, oh,

13:57

okay, so this is a relationship and

13:59

this is something.

13:59

that's happening. And

14:02

my family were fairly quick to support it

14:05

in the end. They ended up, you know,

14:07

giving us furniture and supporting us

14:09

and making sure that we could set up our home.

14:11

We found a place, we moved in and

14:14

kind of evolved from there.

14:18

When we moved, we moved not far from

14:20

home. So we're only half an hour from both

14:22

of our parents. So it meant that we were at

14:24

home two, three days a week, having dinner with them,

14:27

very much like first time out of home,

14:30

sort of living. It wasn't like we were living some

14:33

far away distant place. It was very still close

14:35

to home within their world. They could see

14:37

us interacting. They could see how we

14:39

would live together. They could come over.

14:42

It really meant that it

14:44

kind of just felt

14:46

a little bit like my siblings. It just

14:48

that my partner was a male,

14:50

even if they did sort of

14:53

have reservations about him because of

14:55

some of the

14:56

tenseness that kind of had

14:58

happened at the start. And

15:01

while it did move quickly, nothing felt

15:03

forced. They were happy and

15:05

in love. You know, that part

15:07

that some people found abrasive, which was

15:10

bringing life to a room, I think

15:13

that was almost infectious. So it made you

15:15

feel like you wanted to be with him

15:17

and around him. You

15:20

know, the support side of things that I

15:23

really felt like I was craving intimacy

15:25

for me is a really important

15:28

thing. And you know, that could be holding hands,

15:30

it can be touching, it can be just the

15:32

small things. But

15:34

the intellectual

15:36

sort of stimulation, that intimacy

15:38

of being on a similar brainwave.

15:42

He's a very smart person. And

15:44

I wouldn't

15:47

say I'm a smart person. I think

15:49

that I thrived off that intelligence. And

15:52

it kind

15:54

of made me want

15:56

to be better and smarter. But

15:59

it was also

15:59

just, I don't know, it's kind of like when

16:02

you see that infectious person you think, oh,

16:04

that would be nice to be. Despite how

16:06

it started, life as they moved through their

16:08

early 20s was pretty normal for Stephen

16:11

Alex. They lived in a run-down tiny

16:13

place they could afford as they each started

16:15

climbing their career ladders. They worked

16:18

and saved hard and within a couple

16:20

of years made the move to the big

16:22

smoke. You know, we wanted to get out

16:24

of the western suburbs, wanted to feel safe

16:26

and as soon as we got those jobs

16:29

where we were earning enough to get

16:31

out of that western bubble, that

16:33

western Sydney bubble, we literally

16:36

hot-footed into the inner suburbs of Sydney.

16:38

We would just go to like

16:41

Stonewall or clubs in the city and

16:44

start learning about the gay connection

16:46

that we hadn't experienced growing up and

16:49

that was awesome. Like, I've made friends,

16:51

we got

16:52

to, you know, get connections that we would

16:54

otherwise never have. We

16:56

lived a very happy life, we got to travel the

16:58

world,

16:59

I built a very successful

17:02

career, he had

17:04

built on and off a successful career,

17:07

we lived in great locations

17:10

in the inner city. It

17:12

kind of just,

17:13

everything was kind of nice in just

17:16

feeling like things were kind of

17:20

not what my family had told

17:22

me would happen

17:23

but what I'd made happen. We had a really comfortable

17:26

life, like,

17:27

you know,

17:28

we were young people earning very good money

17:30

for our age.

17:31

We were able to build something and have a lot

17:33

of experiences. We

17:35

would do things like go to five-star

17:37

restaurants and three-hat restaurants and

17:40

just experience the best life that

17:42

you could live. And what do you do when you're

17:45

in a happy, long-term committed relationship

17:47

with someone you love?

17:55

I proposed writing

17:56

Will You Marry Me On The Sand at sunrise,

17:59

it was all very romantic and beautiful.

18:01

I'd actually planned it. I'd

18:03

bought a Tiffany ring. I'd made a big thing

18:06

of it because I was trying to make a romantic

18:09

gesture. He was

18:10

over the

18:12

moon. He was just like,

18:14

oh my God, this is amazing. It

18:17

was kind of fairy tale level stuff.

18:20

I think deep down I was like, it's the next step.

18:23

But it was just like, okay, yeah, we're

18:25

going to try this. Let's get married.

18:29

It's got to be legal soon enough. Let's try and do this.

18:33

It was now eight years they'd been together,

18:35

almost not knowing what life had been without the other

18:38

in their life. They knew everything

18:40

about each other and trusted each other

18:42

implicitly.

18:43

Around

18:44

that time we got engaged,

18:47

he

18:49

had been working for a

18:51

big media organization and

18:53

had

18:55

been working there for quite some

18:57

time. But he'd been working there for a few years. I knew

19:02

he was kind of unhappy, but he was traveling a lot.

19:06

I got home from work one day to work from home

19:09

at, I think it was like one o'clock in the afternoon.

19:13

He was sitting on the lounge playing Xbox.

19:17

I was like,

19:20

are you sick today? I remember you got

19:22

up and went to work this morning.

19:24

He's like, no, no, no, I just

19:27

come home early. Then

19:30

after that day, a few days later something

19:32

wasn't sitting right. I came home early and he was at

19:35

home playing the Xbox.

19:39

At that point I said, are you

19:41

still working for them? He's

19:43

like,

19:45

we're kind of going to agree that I'm going to leave. I

19:47

was like, oh, okay.

19:50

No, I told you about this. I've told you I wasn't

19:52

happy. I told you. I'm like, oh,

19:55

yeah, but I'm not happy, but I'm still going to work.

19:58

He responded with... What

20:00

are you worried about? I'm going to pay the rent, so don't worry

20:02

about it." And I'm like, okay.

20:05

At the time, I wasn't thinking of it as

20:07

a red flag. I'm just thinking, oh

20:10

my God, my partner's in trouble.

20:12

I want to try and support them. I really want to try and

20:14

be there. But I was also

20:16

really pissed that I didn't get told. So I

20:18

became a bit aggressive because I felt like

20:21

I'm getting lied to.

20:23

It wasn't great,

20:25

but things soon became even worse. With

20:28

all this extra downtime, Alex was heading

20:30

out more than he used to and soon

20:32

made a new friend that didn't sit

20:35

particularly well with Steve.

20:37

He was a backpacker. He was only going to be here for

20:39

a little while. And it was like he

20:41

sort of started interacting with us as

20:43

a group,

20:44

as in the broader friendship group we had.

20:47

But I would come home and he'd be hanging

20:49

out.

20:52

And

20:53

on the occasion, the all three of us might do

20:55

some

20:56

bedroom stuff just to have some fun.

20:59

It felt all right. But

21:02

there was a time and all of a sudden I noticed, oh,

21:07

you two are hanging out.

21:08

And Alex would go, I'm not hanging

21:11

out. He's not even here.

21:13

And this other guy would be like,

21:15

yeah, I am.

21:16

Oh, no, nothing happened. I don't know what you're

21:18

just overthinking.

21:20

And it got to the point where I kept being like,

21:23

no, this has to stop.

21:24

This has to stop. This

21:27

was probably about eight,

21:29

nine years in.

21:31

He didn't get a job for about

21:33

four months, five months. And

21:36

he got a job through a friend. One

21:38

of our very good friends gave him a job

21:41

through the company he worked for.

21:43

So it was like, okay, cool. We finally have a job.

21:47

Now he's traveling around again, which,

21:49

you know, when you have some of these jobs, you've got to travel

21:52

a bit. And he starts traveling around again.

21:55

And I'm doing it as well. You know, I'm

21:57

traveling interstate all the time.

21:59

And it was like there was just

22:03

a bit of an unspoken

22:06

thought that if I wasn't home,

22:08

he was hooking up with this backpacker.

22:11

But then when

22:13

I did ask about it, it was like there was almost

22:16

his confrontation of like, oh,

22:18

I don't know, you know, let's just move past this.

22:20

And I kind of got really defensive and

22:23

I would get upset and then I would drag

22:25

that level of upset into other things.

22:28

So I

22:29

would bring up, why didn't you tell me when you

22:31

left your job?

22:32

And it was like, oh, well,

22:35

you didn't really need to know it. I don't want you stressing about

22:37

it. I don't want you thinking about it.

22:40

And I found in myself, I was

22:43

getting

22:43

so frustrated and angry.

22:48

We would have arguments weekly where

22:51

I

22:51

would say, I don't like you hanging

22:53

out with backpacker. It's making me feel uncomfortable. We

22:56

would say, I don't know what you're talking about.

22:58

Nothing's happening there. It's all in your head.

23:01

You're making it up like

23:03

backpacker would then tell me, oh, I

23:05

hung out with Alex the other night and da da

23:08

da da da da. And I'm like, oh, cool.

23:10

So I was in Melbourne and you were banging the backpacker.

23:13

Cool.

23:14

And

23:14

those types of interactions were

23:18

common.

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24:29

Steve wasn't happy.

24:31

This wasn't what he wanted nor expected

24:33

when he'd asked Alex to marry him.

24:36

But they'd been a constant in each other's lives since

24:38

they were 19. Each other's only boyfriend. Who

24:41

was Steve if he wasn't with Alex?

24:43

I didn't feel like there

24:45

was a path out

24:47

at any stage. I'd almost

24:50

invested too much in this to

24:52

find a path out. I was not confident

24:54

enough to be on my own

24:56

because I didn't know what on my own was. And

24:59

the fear of leaving that situation

25:02

meant that I had financial obligations.

25:05

I had just

25:07

life obligations. There didn't seem

25:09

to be a path

25:11

out of it.

25:14

And me being

25:17

the person I am of like

25:19

wanting that connection meant I

25:22

kind of doubled in on it and

25:24

almost forcibly trying to

25:26

make it happen.

25:28

And it did happen. Same

25:30

sex marriage in Australia was legalized finally.

25:33

And Steve and Alex were among the first to

25:35

make it official.

25:36

And it was like, boom, four months

25:39

we're going to get married.

25:40

And we just,

25:44

you know, Alex and I just committed to it. We're like,

25:46

no, we're going to make this happen. And so within four

25:48

months, we'd managed to turn

25:50

around all that's required for a wedding,

25:52

which,

25:53

oh my God, there is so much to

25:56

organize. And I'm generally quite

25:58

organized. So.

26:00

I like organization structure,

26:02

all of those sort of things. Alex

26:05

is crazy and wants

26:10

smoke bombs and all

26:12

the craziness that you could think of. So

26:16

to a degree, we actually came together

26:18

relatively well to

26:20

have like,

26:21

actually, I will admit,

26:24

my wedding was probably the best wedding that I've

26:26

ever seen. Not all the harbor photos,

26:28

everything that we wanted we got.

26:31

I had made lots of vows

26:33

about supporting each

26:35

other, representing each other.

26:39

The things that were important to me, I

26:42

put in the vows.

26:44

His vows

26:46

were similar, but for

26:49

his own values.

26:51

I don't know whether we both reflected each other's

26:53

values, but we'd said we were

26:56

because

26:57

exterior appearances made it look like we

26:59

are displaying those values.

27:02

We were saying to each other, I'm

27:04

saying how supportive he is

27:06

of everybody around me, he

27:08

was supportive of me.

27:09

I'm saying how

27:10

he steps me up, holds me up. He

27:15

said

27:16

quite sweet things. It was all

27:19

pretty stock

27:20

standard. A

27:23

few comments about some

27:26

personal things around. For

27:28

a few years, I'd had these night terrors

27:31

and things like that. He

27:34

would say how I'd support you through those.

27:36

Obviously,

27:39

trying to give people an insight into what we were feeling

27:42

for each other. I think

27:44

there was a level of intimacy that was there

27:46

that was to try and show that we're making

27:48

a connection.

27:50

The night was

27:51

pretty crazy. We had drag queens,

27:54

we had

27:55

music that was crazy,

27:58

we had a lot of fun, lots of

27:59

drinking.

28:01

It was a pretty ridiculous

28:03

party. But

28:06

it was that sort of

28:09

over-the-top gay wedding.

28:11

The day was amazing. I had a great time.

28:14

Everybody was so happy. The

28:17

next day was

28:18

equally lovely. It was very just

28:20

chilled, late breakfast.

28:23

It

28:25

kind of felt a bit surreal to be

28:27

married.

28:29

But at the same time, no different.

28:30

I was a little bit like, okay,

28:33

well, we've just spent tens of thousands

28:35

of dollars and had a big party,

28:37

but let's go on a holiday now. So

28:39

on our honeymoon, we went and

28:42

it

28:44

was like, wow, we're married.

28:47

I would say when I started calling him

28:49

my husband, it

28:52

was no different to saying partner,

28:54

but it got a different reaction from people's.

28:57

I found it comfortable,

29:00

but no different in many ways because

29:04

I think the build up to that wedding

29:06

had been so rollercoaster

29:10

that it almost probably

29:12

elevated me and I

29:14

felt elevated. And

29:16

then we had this amazing honeymoon. We had this amazing

29:18

experience of

29:21

getting married and then coming home

29:23

and telling all of our friends about the amazing

29:25

experiences we had. So

29:28

it

29:30

was quite an

29:33

over-the-top experience. But

29:36

dear listener, anyone who's had a huge wedding

29:38

and a huge honeymoon will tell you the

29:41

post-wedding blues can be pretty bad.

29:43

But you can imagine they'd probably

29:45

be even worse when the relationship had been on

29:47

rocky ground before the wedding and

29:50

worse again when just two weeks

29:52

after their honeymoon ended, COVID

29:55

hit.

29:56

I was so

29:57

overwhelmed with this sense of COVID.

29:59

knew I worked in travel, I was about to lose my

30:02

job.

30:02

It was like, there was all these things sort

30:04

of building up on my mind. And I felt,

30:07

I remember feeling quite lonely in that

30:11

bubble of COVID.

30:12

I was trying to

30:15

interact with people, as

30:17

in

30:18

friends and family. I'd try and set

30:20

up group video

30:23

calls and do all the things that

30:25

we were doing. And I started

30:28

going for daily walks every day for at least

30:30

five to 10 kilometres, because I needed

30:32

to get out. And I knew

30:34

that there was something not right in myself.

30:38

I had a moment

30:41

where I picked up a cigarette and had a cigarette.

30:44

And this was about a

30:47

week into COVID or maybe two weeks

30:49

into COVID.

30:50

And I got a very stern,

30:52

no, don't do that.

30:54

A few weeks later, we start

30:56

coming out of lockdowns. And

30:58

I got sick or I was like, I

31:01

was really like congested, feeling

31:03

unwell.

31:04

And we were meant to go and see

31:07

same friend because his grandma

31:09

had just passed away.

31:11

I had said to

31:15

Alex,

31:16

I'm sick, I can't

31:18

go out and you can't go out because

31:20

I'm sick. And, you know, that

31:22

whole world of COVID, we were so fresh and

31:25

it was like, you're not meant to do any of these

31:27

things.

31:28

And he, Alex just

31:30

lost it. He absolutely lost

31:33

it at me. How dare you take my friends

31:35

away from me? How dare you prevent me from

31:37

seeing them? I've been cooped up in this house

31:40

just because you're sick. Just

31:42

absolutely lost it at me because I

31:45

was sick and we couldn't go out. And

31:47

it was like, it doesn't,

31:49

it didn't make sense. Like the level of anger

31:51

did not make sense for the situation we're in.

31:54

He actually used that as an example a couple of

31:56

weeks later of

31:57

him not going out as to why.

31:59

why he deserved to go out for something. So

32:03

he decided to go out and

32:06

I wasn't going with him.

32:07

I'm like, cool,

32:08

we can do that.

32:12

He didn't get home that night at all. He

32:14

got home the next day about lunchtime.

32:18

And I sort of was like, where were you? He's

32:20

like, oh, I was just hanging out. I was fine.

32:23

I messaged you once or twice, like it was fine.

32:26

Every time an interaction

32:28

would happen,

32:30

I would side with him.

32:32

So I would have friends come along.

32:34

Steve, people think

32:36

this is not good news for you. You really should be looking

32:39

out for yourself. I'd be like, no, Alex

32:41

is really good to me. And I

32:43

would always be defending to the point

32:46

that I started losing

32:48

friends. To try to claw back some connection

32:50

in his marriage, Steve started doing

32:52

more of what Alex wanted or was into.

32:55

And this largely revolved around partying.

32:58

Hard.

33:00

During the first lockdown, and we

33:02

were meant to go and see a friend

33:06

to drop something off, or there was like some sort

33:08

of interaction. Anyway, we went over to

33:10

their place. We got really

33:12

drunk and really high.

33:14

And basically just hung out at their

33:16

place for 36 hours.

33:18

And it

33:20

was an interaction that felt

33:22

outside of what I was comfortable doing.

33:25

I had never experienced

33:27

the level of anxiety I had felt

33:30

at that time,

33:31

as I was at that moment. I had

33:33

like a constant jitter in my hands. I

33:36

was just so uncomfortable, short of breath

33:39

constantly. I was so, so uncomfortable.

33:41

At this stage, we're doing drugs three, four nights

33:43

a week.

33:44

And I really was

33:46

just feeling so shit. And this is

33:49

four months into the lockdown. And

33:51

I was like, I've got to see someone. So

33:55

I went and seen a therapist who had

33:57

sort of suggested maybe pull back on

33:59

the...

33:59

drugs and alcohol that might make you feel better.

34:04

I kind of was like, yeah, that probably

34:06

would make me feel better. So I got home. I

34:09

said to Alex,

34:10

look, we've got to cut this out.

34:12

These

34:13

occasions keep happening though. So

34:15

these party sessions continue to float around.

34:18

And I keep, I'm not at all of them, but

34:20

I go to some of them and some of them are hosted at

34:23

my house.

34:24

Keeping in mind, I've just lost

34:26

my job. I've been made redundant. I'm

34:29

now trying to find a new job.

34:31

I felt like my life was sort of escalating

34:34

quite aggressively. So Alex would

34:36

tell me,

34:37

look, you can stop drinking. You can stop partying

34:40

and you don't have to be at these things.

34:43

Which I didn't. I started

34:45

not going to them all. Actually did stop

34:47

going to them all. But

34:49

I was feeling pretty

34:51

shit. So it was like I

34:53

was more not wanting to go because I didn't want to be social,

34:56

which meant I started

34:58

pulling away from friends and connections

35:01

and family. And

35:03

it kind of just got to a point where it

35:05

was a bit like I was just, I

35:08

was low. I was really low. I

35:10

felt like I had no escape. It was like

35:13

it was happening at my house more often.

35:16

I didn't want the parties in my environment.

35:18

Alex had other ideas

35:20

and decided to start bringing them more often

35:23

into our environment under the guise of

35:26

you need to be with friends, you need to be with people, you're

35:28

going to bring people over.

35:31

The lockdowns were starting to lift.

35:33

So it meant that you could have five odd

35:36

people or 10 odd people in your home.

35:38

And we would always take advantage of some

35:42

loophole of like, well, the neighbor that lives

35:44

downstairs can also come up and

35:46

this person can also come over. So

35:48

we would end up having 15, 20 people. And

35:53

it was happening more and more in my

35:55

space. And I didn't, I

35:58

couldn't.

35:59

I couldn't even argue about it when people were

36:02

there. People have met me when

36:04

I've been asleep in my bed,

36:08

at a party in my house. I

36:10

was feeling really lonely, and

36:12

I was feeling quite vulnerable,

36:15

and I wanted Alex to

36:19

just provide that support, and that

36:23

I was, I honestly don't think I was

36:25

supported at all, other than a therapist, like

36:27

my family being there for supporting me.

36:30

I was feeling so lonely,

36:32

I had said probably 100 times, we

36:36

need to calm this partying down.

36:40

And it might for

36:42

four days, five days, but it wouldn't

36:45

beyond that. It would just start

36:47

ramping back up because everybody loves

36:50

to party when they're partying. The problem

36:52

is when the party's over, it's

36:54

just a mess. It was

36:56

bad, really bad. But

36:59

soon Steve got a new job and hoped

37:01

this would lift things up. He at least had

37:03

a purpose and something else to focus on.

37:06

Then his family invited them away for

37:08

a mini break at a holiday house. Steve

37:10

thought it would be the perfect time to rest, reset

37:13

and hopefully reconnect,

37:16

until he discovered Alex had invited

37:18

some of his new found party friends.

37:21

So we get there the first day,

37:27

it's just, it's a bit

37:29

of a shit show. They've all brought

37:31

heap of drugs, heap of alcohol,

37:34

family show up with a baby,

37:36

my family show up with a baby and they're kind of like,

37:39

what is happening?

37:41

The

37:43

house is big enough you could find your own separate space.

37:46

So I had to work and I

37:48

would work while I'm there.

37:51

And then the first night,

37:55

we had a big dinner, we had some drinks and

37:58

then I was like, oh, it's late.

40:00

And then he

40:01

said to me, I

40:03

told you I want to make new friends and you keep telling

40:05

me I'm not allowed to.

40:07

And I actually in

40:10

that drive back apologized for

40:12

things.

40:13

We got home.

40:15

I was like, I'm going to go out and have a cigarette. And

40:17

I went out onto the balcony to have a cigarette.

40:19

And he sat there with a glass of red wine in

40:22

his hand. And he said, if you go out there

40:24

and light that up,

40:25

we're done.

40:26

And so I put the cigarette in my mouth. I

40:28

lit it.

40:29

And he grabbed the glass and threw it at me.

40:32

And I had a glass sliding door in front of

40:34

me. I slammed it shut in front of me.

40:37

The glass smashes on the glass door

40:40

on the other side.

40:42

I had to clean it

40:43

because it was my fault that he threw the glass of

40:45

wine at me because I lit a cigarette.

40:49

That

40:49

was just too far.

40:52

I packed my stuff. I went and sat

40:54

in a hotel at Hyde

40:58

Park that was being used to house all the homeless

41:00

people. And

41:04

I just sobbed.

41:06

I was so disappointed in myself

41:09

for

41:11

one not standing up for myself

41:13

and letting it get to that point, a

41:16

realization of what

41:20

am I going to do now? I felt so

41:22

lonely sitting in that room. It

41:24

was the most confronting thing. I sat

41:27

down and I got really upset.

41:30

And then I started playing through

41:34

what I felt like I'd just had happen,

41:36

as

41:37

in I'd had the wool,

41:39

like the rug pulled from underneath me. I

41:41

had been blindsided,

41:45

realized I'd been lied to. All

41:47

of a sudden I'm like, oh my

41:50

God, I'm going

41:52

to get divorced. I'm going to

41:54

be a failure because I couldn't

41:56

even be married for 12 months.

41:59

Also just, who am I?

42:02

Like, I felt like, you know,

42:04

it was the Alex and Steve show, not anything

42:08

else. Like, I've never been an individual.

42:11

And, you

42:12

know, my whole personality

42:15

and identity had been tied up in

42:17

this relationship

42:19

to the point that it actually meant,

42:22

I

42:22

felt lonely, properly

42:25

lonely.

42:26

And I

42:28

didn't know who to reach out to. I

42:32

didn't feel like I could speak to family. I didn't feel like

42:34

I could speak to friends. I felt like they were going to judge

42:36

me. They were going to critique me.

42:38

Some of them told me, you know,

42:41

told you so.

42:42

It just felt like I was kind

42:44

of in the worst possible place, the

42:47

worst possible way to feel.

42:49

But here I was in this situation of my relationship.

42:52

And I'd let myself have that build up

42:54

for years

42:55

to then just have it pulled out from underneath me.

42:58

It was

42:59

just shit, really.

43:02

It was just shit. And I felt like

43:06

I wanted to just get away from everything

43:11

in many ways.

43:13

I felt like I'd lost my

43:16

best friend. Like, he was my best friend. He

43:18

was my life partner. He was a person that knew everything

43:20

about me

43:22

and knew all my vulnerabilities.

43:25

Knew everything. And

43:27

I

43:30

just, I lost it. I lost everything. Steve

43:33

knew realistically, he'd been unhappy

43:36

for years. In the depths of

43:38

his guts and his heart, he knew

43:40

his relationship with Alex wasn't all he wanted

43:42

from life. But they'd been together

43:44

for 15 years. This

43:47

wasn't how it was supposed to end. So

43:49

because we had gotten married, it's

43:55

not as simple as just separate. There

43:58

is a process and the process... doesn't

44:00

factor for trauma. So I

44:03

decided to put myself into a lot

44:06

of therapy. So I went from like

44:08

doing

44:09

once a month, I was doing weekly, I

44:12

had to be medicated for a period because I

44:15

just could not,

44:16

my mind could not do any

44:18

focus at all.

44:20

I

44:23

really just doubled down on it. I kind of like,

44:25

once I got over the initial grief,

44:28

I found a place to live pretty

44:30

quickly with some friends

44:32

and they created a really safe environment for

44:34

me.

44:35

Once I

44:38

got to a point, I

44:40

started taking control of it for

44:42

myself. So I would

44:44

find that every time I'd speak to anyone

44:47

at all, even if it was just a casual

44:49

interaction, there

44:51

was this, oh,

44:53

hey Steve, where's Alex? And I'd be like, we're

44:57

separated. And it was like, people literally

44:59

fell to the floor. They would be like, oh my

45:01

God, what? Oh,

45:04

and I just had to take control to

45:06

the point that I, and I know it's a dramatic

45:08

thing to do and people say not to do it. I had to put

45:10

it on Facebook. I had to be like, we're parting ways.

45:13

I am not gonna have this conversation over and over again.

45:16

This is my, this is your story,

45:19

get it.

45:20

And I was very sweet, I wasn't mean.

45:23

I was like, just, he's on his path, why

45:25

am I on my path? We're gonna blah, blah, blah, blah.

45:31

I started to actually find a little voice

45:33

in me and

45:36

realize that,

45:38

you know, one night,

45:40

I had a really good friend that I'd kind of,

45:43

he kept saying, I'm gonna come over, I'm gonna come over, I'm gonna

45:45

come over. And, you know, I kept saying,

45:47

no, no, no, I'm just sitting at home and I wasn't drinking,

45:49

I wasn't doing anything. I was just like, being really good. He's

45:51

like, no love, I'm gonna bring a bottle of bubbles

45:54

and we're gonna sit there and we're gonna cheers to a new life.

45:56

And he came over and he did it. And we just drank

45:59

the one bottle of bubbles.

45:59

And we had a great little chat

46:01

and he's like, no, go to bed. I went to bed

46:05

and I just remember the next day going,

46:07

Oh, that's why

46:09

you need to tell people

46:11

you need someone around.

46:13

All of a sudden the next day, I literally, I started

46:16

messaging friends going, Hey, I don't really

46:18

want to talk about it, but let's catch up. Like cool.

46:21

I felt like I finally got to lift that bubble.

46:24

Of course it wasn't that easy. There

46:26

were times Steve wondered if they should try again.

46:29

If maybe the time apart would have fixed things, but

46:32

ultimately the longer he was away from

46:34

Alex, the clearer it became. That

46:36

was exactly where he should stay.

46:38

I was so thankful the day that I got

46:40

that signed paper with the divorce

46:43

and it was submitted because that

46:46

was the time I got to just shut

46:48

that door.

46:49

And a couple of months after the divorce

46:52

paperwork was submitted, uh,

46:53

it was my birthday and

46:56

he messaged going happy birthday. Hope you have a nice

46:58

time. It's something along those lines. And

47:00

I actually replied the next day and I said, I don't think it's appropriate.

47:03

Your message. We're not going to be friends.

47:05

We haven't been friends in a long time.

47:07

And as someone that doesn't set boundaries

47:10

very well, I was so

47:12

proud of myself actually setting a boundary. Like,

47:14

no, you're not the person I want to hang out

47:17

with.

47:17

And you know, on the odd occasion, I probably

47:20

think to myself, Oh, I wonder what's happening or I

47:22

hope he's well,

47:24

but we share no mutual friends. All

47:26

of my friends are my friends. And

47:29

he never really brought friends into our friendship.

47:32

So it was, there wasn't a mutual

47:34

friendship circle anymore.

47:37

And so now I am very happy with

47:40

how I've

47:41

created that boundary that I don't have to interact

47:44

with it anymore.

47:45

Stephen Alex have now been separated for

47:47

three years, divorced for almost two.

47:50

And while it's taken its time, Steve

47:52

really does feel he's been able to properly

47:54

let go and move on.

47:57

I really do wishing well and hoping well. I

47:59

don't want.

47:59

any bad ever have happened.

48:02

I didn't want it to also get to where it got to.

48:05

Cause I, I got left with a lot of questions unanswered

48:08

and I got left with a lot of hurt and pain and

48:10

it took me a lot of work on myself

48:13

to really feel good.

48:16

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but, um,

48:18

it's in hindsight, isn't

48:20

it? So I look

48:23

at my past relationship

48:25

in a way that it's taught

48:28

me a lot of lessons that I had a lot of

48:30

amazing times and I

48:33

had a lot of downtimes, but

48:36

at the end of the day, I'm

48:38

the most important thing in my

48:40

life.

48:43

My family is the next most important

48:45

thing to me

48:47

because of my values and how I hold my family

48:49

close to me.

48:50

And then my friendships are

48:53

also

48:53

crucial for me. I guess shit

48:56

does happen,

48:58

but you can take more control of it. And

49:01

I wish I knew that sooner because I would

49:03

have gone through.

49:05

I still would have gone through shit,

49:07

but it wouldn't have been up to my neck.

49:09

As for love. So I

49:11

am very happy in a relationship

49:14

now.

49:15

Um, they

49:17

are the most wonderful person. Um,

49:22

it almost surprises me

49:24

that I feel like I'm actually

49:26

falling in love again, even

49:29

though we've been together now for over a year. Um,

49:32

it feels amazing. You know, would

49:34

I get married again? I definitely,

49:36

you know, I come from

49:38

a family where my parents are divorced, other things like

49:41

that, but I, I

49:44

wouldn't say no. I, you know, would

49:46

I propose to someone again? Maybe

49:49

I'm not against it. I really do love the

49:51

idea of love,

49:52

but you've got to be in it for the right reasons. Life

49:55

is good. I

49:57

have no qualms in life. I live a.

49:59

pretty comfortable life. I

50:03

have a great partner, I have a great environment,

50:05

I have great friends, I have family

50:07

that are still there for supporting me. It's

50:10

like

50:12

you take

50:14

the Alex out of the equation

50:17

and you realize your life was actually your life.

50:20

It wasn't a life you created together. The

50:22

life you created together from

50:25

my own self is the

50:27

life that I want and so I take control

50:29

of that.

50:44

Everyone Has an Ex is a Minty Media

50:46

production. It's written and narrated

50:49

by me, Georgia Love, produced

50:51

by Linda Scott and edited by Matt

50:53

Sofo. If you like what you've heard you

50:55

can support the podcast by hitting subscribe,

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51:05

has an ex. If you have a story you'd like

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to share with us you can contact us at

51:09

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