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This episode is brought to you by

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stay competitive and discover new, innovative,

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Even customized orders receive protection. The

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world of business is waiting for you. Visit

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The sooner we get our produce to you, the fresher it is.

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Kroger. Fresh for Everyone.

1:00

Shauna here.

1:10

Welcome to this little corner

1:12

I call Everyone's Talking Money. This

1:15

episode, my friend, this is one that will

1:17

feel like a kick in the gut, but

1:19

for all of the right reasons. So

1:22

we're talking money myths that have gotten

1:24

you here and how you need to change them

1:26

with Whitney and Ellis.

1:33

Welcome to Everyone's Talking Money podcast.

1:36

I'm your host, Shauna Game. There's

1:39

no judgment, no dumb questions, just

1:42

smart conversations about you and your money.

1:45

So come on in and grab a seat. Everyone

1:47

is welcome here.

1:54

Let's just imagine a girl. Her name's Sally.

1:57

She's an executive assistant. She makes $50,000. And

2:00

she walks around thinking, I'm not

2:03

very rich. I'm not doing

2:06

very well financially because

2:08

I'm not making six figures like

2:10

my boss. But she's really good with money.

2:12

She puts money away. She has an

2:15

apartment that she rents, a car

2:17

that's paid off. She always maxes

2:19

out her 401k. She saves things.

2:22

Well, if we actually look at the results of all

2:24

this behavior, she may be making $50,000, but

2:28

she in fact has a net worth of $30,000

2:30

in the green.

2:33

Let's be real. There are a

2:35

lot of money myths that you

2:37

have let permeate your life and

2:40

they just no longer work for you.

2:43

Like the example that our guest, Whitney, a life

2:45

coach, author of the soon to be released

2:47

book, Bougie de Broke and creator

2:49

of the money reset program was just

2:52

talking about. You know

2:54

that belief that you have to make six

2:56

figures to be wealthy, to

2:58

have arrived, whatever you want to call

3:01

it. I mean, seriously, like I

3:03

believed this BS. I believe

3:05

this for so long in my twenties that

3:08

it actually held me back from making career

3:11

choices that probably would have been

3:13

better off for me. So we're going

3:15

to burn down that myth in this episode. And

3:17

so many other big money myths, like

3:20

a traditional blowout wedding worth.

3:23

Is that actually worth the cost? And

3:25

why the American dream is the biggest

3:27

money myth that so many other beliefs

3:30

have spun off from. So

3:32

buckle up and get ready for an episode that

3:34

will ask you to just check your

3:36

money beliefs at the door and welcome a

3:38

new way to think about money.

3:40

Let's start talking. Talking about a fun

3:43

subject, money myths. And

3:45

I know that, you know, I'm going to be brutally

3:47

honest throughout this episode because I have

3:50

fallen into believing so many

3:52

money myths myself. And I think

3:54

that's what leads me to believe that probably everyone

3:57

listening is in the same place.

4:00

I think the interesting thing about money myths

4:02

is that sometimes we don't know

4:05

that there's a false money belief or

4:07

a money myth that's kind of in

4:09

there and playing around with how we're

4:11

saving and spending money and getting in the way of us

4:13

achieving our goals. But it's there,

4:15

it's lurking, it's kind of hanging in the shadows.

4:17

And so we're going to talk about a lot of those. But

4:20

I want to start with this one. I think this

4:23

is a great place to start. So you believe that

4:25

the American dream that we are all sold

4:28

from childhood is probably the

4:30

biggest money myth. And it's a

4:32

money myth that you say like so many other money

4:34

myths just kind of spawn from that one.

4:37

And it really measures our

4:39

lives and our kind of quote

4:41

unquote success. And it's harming

4:43

us, like believing this

4:45

American dream idea. So

4:47

tell us, what is wrong with this myth? What's

4:50

wrong with the American dream? Oh,

4:52

this is such a good question to start with. I

4:54

love that we're starting strong here. So for

4:56

me, I feel like the

4:58

American dream

5:01

is, well, let's

5:03

define it first. In

5:06

a lot of ways, people see it as you

5:08

do good in school, you go to college,

5:10

you get a job, you work really hard, you

5:13

climb up that ladder, you get that financial

5:15

success, and you

5:17

ultimately have the ability

5:20

to buy a house and car and have

5:22

kids. This is how I like to define

5:24

the American dream in this way. Now,

5:26

the American dream can mean many things for many people,

5:29

especially like immigrants who come here and they want

5:31

to achieve something. So it has a lot

5:33

of meaning for people. But I'm

5:35

focusing on this sort of materialistic

5:38

point of view of what we can achieve

5:40

and that metrics that we measure our financial

5:43

life by. And we walk

5:45

around whether we consciously

5:46

or unconsciously know it

5:49

with this pressure, this pressure

5:51

to fulfill the American dream. And

5:54

if we don't, if we don't meet those

5:56

metrics at certain points in our lives, we

5:59

begin to feel like a failure, that

6:01

we're not meeting up to the certain

6:04

standard that we're

6:06

losers. I mean, this is how we feel

6:08

deep down inside, right? I mean, it's

6:11

this unknowing pressure that's behind

6:13

us. It's always lurking behind us

6:15

with every decision we make. And

6:19

why we have this

6:20

myth with us? Why does the

6:22

American dream walk around with us? It's

6:25

got a long history. I mean, from 1776,

6:27

the idea of like liberty,

6:29

life, liberty, and happiness, but that all turned

6:32

as like the 50s came around and

6:34

there was abundance and the idea, let's

6:37

buy a house, let's buy a car, TVs

6:39

got into people's lives. And they were

6:41

wanted like more, more, and more. And then it became

6:43

about

6:44

having more.

6:46

Well, when is enough enough? You

6:49

know? That is a good question. Exactly.

6:53

And I feel like even as

6:55

millennials, you know, we've been kind

6:57

of handed a

7:00

crap deck of cards, if you will say, where

7:03

our American dream has been really a struggle.

7:05

I mean, we graduated

7:06

from college. Some

7:08

of us, there's a big bailout. We

7:11

are in our high earning

7:14

years and like be able to buy

7:16

a house and then the pandemic hits

7:18

and things really got funky.

7:21

And we're facing inflation and all these things

7:23

as a generation.

7:25

For us, it's like, what is this American

7:27

dream that we're talking about? And

7:30

Bernie Sanders, sorry, I was going

7:32

to say, Bernie Sanders says that like,

7:34

it's a nightmare for

7:35

some people. And I think that's true

7:37

for a lot of people. You

7:40

have the stat, I'm not going to be able to quote

7:42

it exactly, but you have the stat that

7:44

millennials are, you

7:47

know, the most, like you said, the most educated

7:49

generation really set

7:51

up, like have access to a lot

7:53

of information, especially

7:55

around money,

7:56

but is the generation that is

7:58

falling behind that

7:59

really isn't prepared, that is

8:02

struggling. And I think that's

8:04

really interesting dichotomy to

8:07

explore and think about. Why

8:09

is that happening? Why

8:12

is it happening? I mean, so the quote

8:14

you're talking about is the fact that not only

8:16

do millennials have $27,000 worth of debt, which

8:18

is insane, that they're carrying around

8:23

with them, but yes, they are the most educated

8:26

generation with the most financial

8:28

wherewithal, but yet we're falling terribly

8:31

behind. And I think a

8:33

lot of it is because we

8:34

were sold on the American dream and

8:36

we invested our money

8:38

and our time into it and we didn't get a return

8:41

on our investment.

8:44

So I, you know, the question I ponder

8:47

is, and you might not have an answer to this, but

8:49

I think it would just be interesting to talk about a

8:51

little bit. How do we create something different? Like,

8:54

how do we create an

8:55

authentic life

8:58

where we are spending saving in a way

9:00

that moves us

9:02

towards our values or towards what we want?

9:04

Not all the time, but maybe 80% of

9:07

the time. How do we

9:09

debunk that American dream myth

9:11

and just create something for ourselves

9:13

that feels a little bit better? Yeah,

9:16

that's a, I love that question. It's such a powerful

9:18

question because that's really what I'm

9:21

focused on talking about today is we

9:23

can believe these money myths in these stories, whether

9:25

that's the American dream or something else,

9:28

and we can find out they are not true. They

9:30

are actually lies sometimes, and

9:33

we can decide what

9:35

do we want our story to look like and

9:38

choose it from a place of deep

9:40

down in ourselves. What is it we actually

9:43

want?

9:44

What is it we actually desire?

9:46

What is the story and the life we want

9:48

to build? Not based on the American dream,

9:50

but choosing our own unique

9:53

path. And some

9:55

of that is recognizing that these

9:57

myths are not true and

9:59

that we don't have to. live by them. We have

10:01

a choice

10:02

to let them go. But we must

10:04

begin with being aware that they even exist

10:06

in the first place. And I think you mentioned that earlier. It's

10:09

like, we're walking around. It's like so deeply

10:11

embedded and enculturated in us, you

10:13

know, that we don't even notice that they're there.

10:16

But the first step of step and change is

10:18

awareness and becoming aware that they exist,

10:21

that we may be believing them. And that

10:23

it's up to us to decide whether we're going to allow

10:26

that belief to guide us or

10:28

not.

10:29

And choosing ourselves and our story over

10:31

a story that was given to us and often

10:33

passed down to us.

10:37

So you've got these 10 myths

10:39

that we're going to talk about a lot of them. And

10:41

I know you've got a couple of your favorites, but I want to talk

10:43

about

10:44

two of my favorites that really sort

10:46

of stood out to me. One

10:48

is this idea that making

10:51

a six-figure income means that you're

10:53

rich. And

10:55

I know that from working with clients

10:57

for years, you know, sitting across, like diving

11:00

into their money and their finances.

11:02

And

11:02

there were a lot of people that were making, oh, what

11:05

we would consider a lot of money. And they

11:07

were not very well off financially. They

11:09

were probably living very much paycheck

11:12

to paycheck. They just had a lot of stuff

11:14

to kind of, you know, show, I guess you would

11:16

say for that income. But really, you

11:19

know, when the shit hit the fan, like there was just, there's

11:21

not going to be anything there. And then, you

11:23

know, I would work with people who were just out

11:25

of college or like in their, you know, late twenties,

11:27

early thirties, and they weren't making

11:29

that much money, but they were

11:31

really, you know, doing well with

11:35

their money. But I think this is

11:37

really interesting, like, especially on social media,

11:39

you see it touted a lot of times,

11:42

you know, like, do X, Y, and Z,

11:44

and you'll get to a six-figure income or a seven-figure

11:46

income. And I laugh at it because I'm like,

11:49

yes, that's great. But there's

11:51

a whole other side of that

11:53

story, you know, I think it's not

11:56

necessarily about how much you make, it's about how

11:58

much

11:58

you spend. and in what you're doing

12:01

with that. So, you know, how do we get off this treadmill

12:03

of thinking that the six-figure

12:05

income is like the end-all be-all? Oh

12:08

my gosh, I so love that you picked this

12:10

one as your top one, because it's one of my favorite

12:12

ones to debunk, because I feel like it's such

12:15

a lie. And people walk around

12:17

believing

12:17

this six-figure income, it's

12:19

what they're supposed to achieve. They cannot wait

12:21

to make six figures so that they can, A,

12:24

say that in a statement, I made six figures

12:26

and feel really good about themselves. And

12:29

it's such a lie, it's such a story.

12:32

So I actually, to prepare

12:34

for my time with you, I really came up with two scenarios

12:36

that I think will help people really understand

12:39

why this is not the full

12:41

story. One, let's just imagine

12:43

a girl, her name's Sally. She's an executive

12:45

assistant, she makes $50,000. And

12:48

she walks around thinking, I'm

12:51

not very rich, I'm not

12:53

doing very well financially,

12:56

because I'm not making six figures like

12:58

my boss. But

13:00

she's really good with money. She puts money away,

13:03

she has an apartment that

13:05

she rents, car that's paid off,

13:07

she always maxes out

13:09

her 401k. She saves things.

13:12

Well, if we actually look at the results of all

13:14

this behavior, she may be making $50,000, but

13:18

she in fact has a net worth

13:21

of $30,000 in the green.

13:24

Whereas Martha, her boss that she

13:26

is so jealous of, that's making

13:28

this six figure income. If we look at

13:31

her, she thinks, oh, I'm

13:33

making six figures, I'm doing so well. I

13:36

need to keep up and keep up with this lifestyle

13:38

that

13:41

lives up to my six figure income. And she buys things

13:44

on credit card, nice

13:47

new outfits. She leases a car,

13:49

she just bought a house. And

13:52

when you look at the results of all that, this

13:54

belief, oh, I've got all this money, I'm entitled

13:56

to live a six figure life.

13:59

results are actually the fact she's making 120,000, but she's

14:02

negative $50,000 in net worth.

14:08

She's in the red. So this is how

14:10

we flip the script on this, is realizing

14:12

let's not focus on the salary, but

14:15

we need to focus on building our

14:17

net worth. That's

14:19

the true story is the net worth and what

14:21

you're capable of building no matter what position

14:24

you're in. And I feel like

14:26

that is the biggest lies. Like, oh, salary,

14:28

let's just look at the salary. It's

14:30

the net worth. That's where financial health

14:32

comes from. And anybody can build it as

14:34

long as they're willing to invest in assets

14:36

and to be really smart with their money.

14:39

And I just want to say for everyone listening, I know

14:41

it's so easy to fall into the trap

14:44

of wanting

14:47

the big number for your salary

14:49

and thinking, you know, once you hit this

14:52

number, like this is the number where things

14:54

are going to change. And then this is the number.

14:57

I do this myself. So I know that

14:59

this is just human nature and we

15:01

live in a very like scarcity driven society.

15:03

And so we walk around feeling like

15:06

there's never enough. We never were never going

15:08

to make enough. We're never going to do enough. Like,

15:10

you know, this is just it's beaten into

15:13

us through media. And

15:15

it's just kind of how unfortunately

15:17

our society works, but I think takes us back to this

15:19

idea of American dream that is is

15:22

false and doesn't really serve us.

15:24

And so, you know, just for anyone listening,

15:26

like it's hard, like this is hard

15:28

work. It's hard to, you

15:31

know, maybe you'll have one minute where you're

15:33

like, OK, I know my salary, you

15:35

know, that doesn't define my

15:37

net worth. And then the next minute you find yourself,

15:39

you know, trying to strive for that

15:42

bigger number. And so it's, you know, it's

15:44

it's this interesting, right? What relationship

15:46

that I talk about, like trying to figure out this

15:49

place where maybe

15:50

both can exist, but maybe in

15:52

a little healthier way, I guess. Yeah,

15:54

I love that you bring that up because we're all, you know,

15:57

guilty of looking for

15:58

that six figure number or that. seven-figure

16:00

number for really aiming. And

16:03

there's actually- Let's go eight figures. Yeah,

16:05

I love it. Let's go eight, why not? Especially

16:07

ladies, aim for the eight. But

16:11

I love that you bring that up because it's true. We still

16:13

are striving and there's nothing wrong with striving,

16:15

but focus on building your net worth

16:18

and your self-worth. I

16:20

think that's the other element that we really

16:22

have to address here too, is building

16:24

up how you feel about yourself, how you

16:26

feel about your ability to make money, how you feel

16:29

about your contribution to the world

16:31

and what you can do. Because that's

16:33

really where change happens is what

16:35

you're thinking and feeling about yourself,

16:38

whether you're making 50,000 or 120,000. If

16:41

you can focus on building your self-worth and

16:43

your net worth, you can really create something

16:45

really amazing for yourself.

16:53

This episode is brought to you by

16:55

Alibaba.com, the world's leading

16:57

B2B e-commerce marketplace. They'll

16:59

help your business stay competitive and discover

17:01

new, innovative and affordable products from

17:04

over 200,000 suppliers and manufacturers

17:06

worldwide. And with their trade assurance,

17:08

you can shop with peace of mind. No more worrying

17:11

about international payments, delayed shipments

17:13

and convoluted refund policies. Even

17:15

customized orders receive protection. The

17:18

world of business is waiting for you. Visit

17:20

Alibaba.com.

17:22

At Kroger, we know the minute a tomato

17:24

is picked off the vine, the fresh timer starts.

17:27

The sooner we get our produce to you, the fresher it

17:29

is. That's why we've completely overhauled

17:31

our process to shorten the time from harvest

17:34

to home for our tomatoes, strawberries

17:36

and salads. Because we know how much you

17:38

love fresh produce, we give you more time

17:41

to enjoy your tasty fruits and veggies at

17:43

home. So whether you're shopping in-store, picking

17:45

up or prefer delivery, we're committed

17:47

to bringing you the freshest produce possible.

17:50

Kroger, fresh for everyone.

17:52

Your challenge, if you choose to accept

17:54

it, is this. Let's go, let's go! Show

17:57

up on day one, work out with us for 30

17:59

minutes.

17:59

feel good right away. Yo! Repeat

18:02

five days a week for three weeks. Three

18:04

weeks? Five workouts a week. We're a

18:06

body, and we call that a body block. You

18:08

pick the block, and you're going to love the experience.

18:11

On week four, this part is really important. Take

18:13

the week off. Seriously, we mean it. Rest.

18:17

Go on vacation. Or try something new. Maybe some

18:19

yoga.

18:21

Notice you're not holding on to any tension

18:23

here. Or a dance class. Get sexy

18:26

with it, daddy. You do you. And then,

18:28

start again. Be committed to this process. Choose

18:30

a new body block each month. Get

18:32

a new challenge each month. Have fun every day. Avoid

18:35

burnout. You're not going to

18:37

quit on yourself today. This is how you reach your goals. You in? There

18:40

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18:40

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18:43

Sign up for your first body block today. Visit

18:45

body.com for a free trial. That's

18:49

B-O-D-I dot com. Are you ready

18:51

to get started?

18:52

All right, Whitney, I want to talk about another personal favorite.

18:55

This is my second personal favorite. I

18:57

know this might ruffle some feathers.

18:59

But

19:00

it's that a

19:02

traditional wedding is worth the

19:04

cost. I know there's definitely

19:06

some people who are going to be like, what?

19:09

But the average cost of

19:11

a wedding, I looked this up, in 2022, was around $30,000. Which,

19:14

to me, feels like

19:16

a lot of money. I think there's

19:18

a lot you can do with that kind of cash. If

19:21

we were visual here, instead

19:22

of an audio podcast, I

19:25

could quickly show you how we could turn $30,000 into

19:27

a lot of money, whether

19:29

we're investing it or buying investment property, whatever.

19:31

But

19:32

I think for me,

19:35

my wedding, it cost around, probably

19:37

around $3,000 or $4,000, dress included.

19:40

It was really unique. We had a pizza

19:42

truck. We had

19:44

friends make cocktails. It

19:46

was a really unique experience.

19:49

So many of our guests were like, that was the best

19:51

wedding I had ever been to.

19:53

I think, especially as women, we grow up

19:56

thinking that this day has to be perfect, whatever

19:59

the wedding is.

19:59

whatever that means. And that

20:02

we also have to spend a lot of money in

20:04

order to achieve that perfection. And

20:06

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with

20:09

spending a lot of money on your wedding if

20:11

that's what you want to do and that is what makes

20:13

you feel great. I think there's just maybe

20:15

like a pause button on

20:18

thinking about that a

20:20

little bit differently. And

20:22

one more thing I would just say that

20:25

my husband and I, we actually did a pre-Honeymoon.

20:27

We actually went to Paris before we got

20:29

married. And we

20:32

probably spent more money on that because that

20:35

was the experience that we really wanted to enjoy

20:37

than we did on the wedding. But you know,

20:39

all in I think we were, I don't

20:42

know, maybe $6,000 for both things,

20:44

which is still a lot of money, right? So

20:47

I just find this one really interesting. Like, tell me, tell

20:50

me about like, how do we put this one in perspective? Oh,

20:53

my gosh, again, I so love that you brought

20:55

up my second favorite one on the list

20:57

because this one's real personal for me. I love

20:59

that you shared your story. I'm also sincerely

21:02

impressed that you spent $6,000. So a

21:04

way to go. I didn't know that was

21:06

possible. I'm

21:08

a little crazy with numbers. So you know,

21:11

and resourcefulness. I love it.

21:14

So I know that I recognize that this one's really

21:16

gonna ruffle feathers. I don't know what it is

21:18

about weddings, but people have like really

21:21

strong stances on weddings. So I know

21:23

that some people are gonna be

21:24

all for having the big wedding and other

21:26

people are not. But

21:28

let's just talk about I feel like this is a money

21:30

myth that's wrapped in another myth. So there's a

21:32

myth of the woman who like,

21:35

it's swept away and gets married and

21:38

lives happily ever after after her wedding day, right?

21:40

You know, the fairy tale, Cinderella.

21:42

It's charming. Yeah, exactly. And

21:44

that pressure is so high for women

21:47

that they have to like live out this

21:49

Cinderella dream with the perfect

21:52

dress, the perfect. I mean, I guess it's

21:54

the one day they get to feel like a queen or a princess.

21:57

This I never really... Whatever that feel. this

22:00

I never understood. I feel like a queen is ruling

22:02

your money, but whatever. So

22:05

there's like two myths wrapped up in this.

22:08

The myth of Cinderella, let's

22:10

get married happily ever after, and then the myth that

22:12

weddings are worth the cost. That this

22:15

one big day, some reason

22:17

we can justify this

22:19

cost. You know,

22:22

people a lot of the times they say, oh, it's it's our

22:24

one big day. So that's how they justify

22:26

it.

22:27

This is mind boggling to me. You would say this about

22:29

no other day of your life other than your wedding

22:31

day, right? So so what the what the dress

22:34

is $10,000. It's the one day.

22:36

So I find this very

22:39

strange. And I think a lot of it just is societal

22:42

pressure. The

22:43

belief that this is, this is how

22:45

you do things, you have to present your family

22:47

to society, you have to be presented to society,

22:50

that you're doing well, it's

22:52

more than just about the bride and groom, really,

22:54

and a lot of ways. And

22:57

there's pressure from family, there's pressure from society,

22:59

and then there's self imposed pressure that

23:02

women put on themselves about fulfilling

23:04

the Cinderella dream.

23:06

And so they say, Oh, this one big day,

23:08

oh, it's okay, a week,

23:11

it's worth the cost. This is worth

23:13

it. But what happens is,

23:16

like you said, it costs $30,000. I looked

23:19

up the salary of an average person. $55,000. Okay,

23:21

so we're talking about a

23:24

couple who might be making 100 something

23:26

thousand dollars is going to now fork

23:29

over $30,000 for a wedding.

23:32

How I mean, when I began to do the search

23:34

and look for my venue, I was like, how are

23:36

all these people doing this? This is so

23:39

much money. And

23:41

the weight and the pressure that I personally

23:43

felt. So I just recently got engaged like

23:45

two years ago. Thank

23:47

you. And I remember

23:50

this myth really felt

23:53

so heavy on me that

23:55

I was like, how are people

23:57

doing this? Is this a secret? Like,

23:59

we're How are we affording this all

24:01

these people? Well, actually 45% of

24:04

people go in debt for it, for

24:06

the dream. And

24:08

so how do we flip the script? We

24:11

remind ourselves that this is

24:14

about the marriage and not

24:16

one day and not one wedding. And

24:19

we choose what is right for

24:22

us. You chose what was right for you, pizza

24:24

truck, $6,000. That was

24:26

right for you. Anybody else

24:28

can do that. Now, I know there's family pressure,

24:31

so that's a separate part. And

24:33

I just want to briefly touch on that, which

24:35

is a lot

24:37

of couples are paying for weddings themselves in the modern

24:40

way. Because guess what? Their

24:42

parents can't afford it, even though they're pressuring them to do

24:44

it.

24:45

And then this whole idea that the

24:46

father pays,

24:50

I find this fascinating because it was expected

24:52

my father was going to pay and he just retired.

24:55

It's not his thing. Well, I looked

24:57

into this. This comes from the dowry.

24:59

This whole archaic thing

25:03

where the woman was unable to work

25:05

and to do all these things and make money.

25:08

So the dad had to pay a dowry to

25:10

essentially justify the cost.

25:13

So this is where this comes from, this

25:14

old idea that fathers

25:17

have to pay for these weddings. And

25:19

we just carried it along all the way,

25:21

right? All the way and the pressure

25:24

is so high. And

25:26

during my venue searching,

25:28

I discovered you say wedding.

25:31

Oh, yeah. Instantly

25:33

like 20% out on cost. Yeah, it's like 30%. And

25:35

they're like, oh, by the way, it costs money to cut

25:37

the cake. It costs money for a napkins.

25:40

And no matter how many times when we were doing the

25:42

venue searching, we crunched the numbers. I'm

25:44

like, this thing is, first of all, I think 30,000 is a

25:46

low number.

25:48

I think so too. It ends up being

25:50

like 60,000. And for us,

25:52

we realized at the end of the day, we wanted

25:54

to just get married and be with each other and wanted it to be

25:56

romantic. And we're actually getting married in Ireland.

25:59

a micro wedding and

26:01

it's going to cost under $20,000. It's

26:04

probably going to be about 15, I budgeted for it.

26:06

But that was the right choice for us. The

26:09

thing is family definitely pressed against us. So

26:11

that's the part that's very hard with this

26:13

particular money myth is

26:15

you've got other people involved. Yeah.

26:18

I think it's tough when

26:20

you're balancing both things. We're

26:22

going to a family wedding in

26:25

September and the

26:26

bride said to

26:30

the mother-in-law who was

26:32

actually going to be officiating the wedding. Like

26:34

how many dresses do you have for the

26:36

day? She's like,

26:38

dresses? I mean, one because

26:41

we're only going to one wedding, right?

26:44

The bride was like, well, I mean, you might want to have

26:46

like two or three dresses to choose

26:48

from. She was like,

26:49

two or three dresses. So

26:51

I think it's just really interesting,

26:54

the dynamics that play into wedding.

26:58

I like your advice about

27:00

just figuring out, I mean, all of these money

27:02

myths that we're talking about is just figuring

27:04

out what works for you. Like taking a

27:06

moment, being a bit mindful and

27:08

thinking about

27:10

what is it that truly works for you, that

27:12

works for your budget, that works for your

27:14

situation. I think

27:16

that's something that

27:18

we don't do a lot. Like we don't take a lot

27:21

of those pause moments. I want

27:23

to talk a little bit about your

27:25

money story. You've been really transparent.

27:28

You're writing about it in your new book. You

27:31

said that like three years ago, you

27:33

really hit this place, this like financial

27:35

rock bottom. You decided that you no longer

27:37

wanted to be broke and

27:39

you just really wanted to change things. You wanted to change

27:41

your money story. And I think that's something

27:44

that we can all really relate to. Tell

27:46

us about this rock bottom. Like

27:48

what did it look like for you? Yeah,

27:51

rock bottom. And it was like rock bottom number

27:53

three. It was like I had had

27:55

other financial problems before, but this one was

27:57

like the biggest one. So the

27:59

pandemic.

27:59

hit and I know that was rock bottom

28:02

and it shook a lot of people. I mean 25

28:04

million people were unemployed during that time

28:06

and I was working as a TV producer

28:08

and production just like came to a grinding halt and

28:11

you know my savings dwindled

28:13

as I kind of got through the months and

28:15

I felt very lost and confused

28:18

and

28:19

afraid and broken broken.

28:21

I mean I felt like I had done

28:24

all these right things and suddenly I'm finding myself

28:27

like this bank account was

28:29

terrifying and no job and had

28:31

no idea what I was gonna do and

28:33

it was winter and I remember just sitting on

28:35

the beach looking out at this

28:37

lighthouse across the water just

28:40

begging like some sort of other

28:42

power the universe God I don't know this lighthouse

28:45

anything anything you know

28:47

and I just said help

28:49

like how do I how do I get out

28:51

of this and I

28:53

heard nothing back you know radio silence so

28:56

I was really expecting an answer I was like I really like

28:58

I hope this answer comes to me and

29:00

then it was like okay nobody's

29:02

gonna save you Whitney

29:04

you're gonna have to save yourself

29:06

you got yourself here and so that's a really

29:08

big part for me to focus on is

29:11

financial responsibility I felt like that was

29:13

the moment I said I'm a hundred percent

29:15

the reason why I got here

29:17

now maybe things happen the economy of the pandemic

29:20

but I can now change

29:22

my story and

29:24

that day I literally drew a line

29:26

in the sand

29:27

and just stood out at the ocean I said no

29:29

more I'm not gonna be broke

29:31

anymore I'm gonna learn everything I can about

29:34

money and I'm gonna change my money

29:36

story right here and right now and I will do

29:38

whatever it takes because I don't want to ever

29:40

feel like this again and

29:42

I think a lot of people

29:44

feel like their money story is not

29:47

in their control and it is and that day I

29:49

changed my life and it's been a slow

29:52

progression ever since and since that day I have

29:56

read all the books not all of them but many

29:59

of them I've literally

29:59

I've talked to millionaires, I've hired

30:02

people, I have paid off credit cards, I

30:04

now have CPA firm backing

30:06

me, I'm building a six figure business, and I'm doing

30:09

all these things

30:09

one step at

30:11

a time. And that's how you change your story, one

30:14

step at a time. And you decide you're no longer

30:16

gonna believe that lie, and for me, the lie was, I'm

30:18

broke and I'll always be broke. Well, that's

30:21

a lie. That's a story that's not helpful

30:23

or empowering. So how can I change mine?

30:30

Hi, I'm Frances Fry. And

30:33

I'm Anne Morris. And we are the hosts

30:35

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30:37

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Let me introduce you to the prior version

31:37

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31:40

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31:41

anxious, and really just worried

31:43

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31:46

with money, it just sucked. It

31:48

was not in a good place. And

31:50

this time of my life, it was hard on my

31:52

body too. I know I talked about it a lot

31:54

on the show. I wasn't sleeping well. I

31:56

was having panic moments. about

32:00

my life at that time was just really, really

32:03

far from fun. I just, I

32:05

didn't wanna live this way and so I went searching

32:07

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32:09

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32:12

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32:14

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32:17

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32:19

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32:29

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32:32

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32:37

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32:39

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33:08

You talk about it being this transformational

33:11

process that it isn't necessarily

33:13

like a moment that you arrive at. Like,

33:15

we don't hit this place and we're like, ah,

33:18

everything's great financially,

33:20

we know everything like I wish, but

33:23

there just isn't that place and the minute you

33:25

learn something, something else comes in sideways

33:28

and you're like, oh crap, I gotta learn that too, where I gotta figure

33:30

that thing out. So

33:32

thinking about this kind of lifelong

33:34

process that you're on and this journey

33:37

that you're on and for those listening,

33:40

how do they follow in your footsteps? How do

33:42

they take the rock bottom and

33:48

turn it into a place

33:50

of transformation? Oh, what a beautiful

33:52

question. One,

33:55

it

33:56

starts with just deciding this second

33:59

right now

33:59

listening right now, whoever's listening,

34:02

deciding that they're not going to live like this anymore.

34:05

It literally takes that decision.

34:07

You say, right now, I'm not doing this anymore.

34:09

I am going to do whatever it takes.

34:12

And taking 100% responsibility from

34:14

this point forward. I call it drawing

34:16

the line in the sand.

34:18

You have to claim it. You have to say no

34:20

more. And then you take baby

34:22

steps.

34:23

You say, what do I need to learn?

34:26

What mistakes have I made? You're going to keep making

34:28

mistakes. So that's the thing. You're going to

34:30

keep happening. Yes. But

34:33

now you're 100% committed to

34:35

the process. Because maybe before you didn't

34:37

know what was happening to you, or it all fell out of

34:40

control. But now you've committed.

34:42

You're on the line in the sand. So you have to

34:44

just allow yourself to

34:46

stumble and fall and learn to walk

34:49

in a new direction. And it's

34:51

not easy. There's the mental part of it,

34:53

the mindset. Oh,

34:54

my gosh, that's a full-time job. I

34:56

mean, working on your mindset about

34:58

money. I don't think I'll ever

35:01

overcome

35:01

that fully. No. Right?

35:04

It's like minute. It's like second by second for me, honestly.

35:06

I mean, if anybody else can go minute

35:08

by minute, I applaud them. But I'm second

35:11

by second. Yeah, same. I

35:13

think that's well said for sure. Second by second. It

35:16

starts in the head. It starts in the

35:18

heart. You got to really believe you are worthy

35:20

of money

35:22

and abundance. You are worthy

35:25

of creating a new life.

35:27

And then you take action in knowing that

35:29

you are worthy and that you are capable.

35:33

That is the foundation, is actually believing you

35:35

can do it. And then you

35:37

don't stop. You just keep

35:40

going. Now I have seven actual practical tips,

35:42

like

35:43

things like put 10% away of every

35:45

dollar that comes your way. But

35:47

it really starts at the head, the heart, and then your wallet,

35:50

and choosing that this moment

35:52

is the moment you change. And choosing that

35:54

over and over again. So that's the other thing. Like

35:57

every day or every second of the day saying no.

36:00

So

36:00

that was my past. I am building

36:02

a new future. I am writing a new story.

36:05

I'm doing it right now,

36:07

one step at a time, one action at a time, one

36:09

choice at a time. So

36:12

I know we've only gotten to like three or

36:14

four of the money myths. We're saving a

36:16

special one for the end. But

36:19

I'm wondering if there are just a couple

36:21

others that you feel like we absolutely

36:23

have to talk about these. So for me, I think

36:25

one of the myths that really stems

36:28

from the American dream is

36:30

that a college education

36:33

is a necessary step in being successful.

36:36

And

36:38

this myth has been carried with our

36:40

generation specifically, and it's cost us big

36:42

time. I mean, I think the average student

36:44

loan debt is like $30,000 or $27,000 that people are paying.

36:53

A lot of people go to college

36:55

and

36:56

graduate and end up changing their entire

36:59

career path or weren't even interested

37:01

in the thing that they wanted to. And

37:03

I think that

37:05

pressuring people, this

37:06

pressure that

37:09

you

37:10

leave high school and that this is the choice

37:12

that is necessary

37:13

to be successful

37:16

has led people to being 18 years old and going into

37:21

agreeing to go into massive

37:24

amounts of debt. I mean, when I was 18, I

37:26

said, okay, I guess I'm going to take on this loan.

37:30

But we don't even know. Yeah, I mean,

37:32

I don't even think at that age,

37:35

you don't even like

37:37

you just don't even understand. And it

37:39

also feels like what you're supposed to do,

37:41

which is very crazy in itself,

37:44

right?

37:45

Yeah, that's the myth part that's so fascinating.

37:47

It's like the story that's so enculturated,

37:50

so deeply embedded in us, like

37:52

our parents are like, you have to go to college. There's

37:55

no other way.

37:56

Well, here we are in 2023. There's definitely

37:58

other ways. I mean, you can...

37:59

watch YouTube videos and learn a high-income

38:02

skill set that will actually make you a lot of

38:04

money.

38:06

You don't have to go to school. And

38:08

so I think allowing ourselves

38:10

to take the pressure off of

38:14

encouraging our own kids or

38:16

the next generation to go to college. What

38:18

if we were the one generation that began

38:20

to say, it's okay, choose

38:22

another path? And for me,

38:25

that's how you flip the script. You say they're

38:27

focused on

38:28

purpose, passion, skills,

38:32

and don't focus on academic achievement

38:34

as much. I mean, I love school.

38:37

I love academia. I'd be at school all

38:39

day if I could, but do I regret

38:41

taking out debt to get a college

38:43

education that ultimately didn't pay off?

38:46

Yes,

38:47

I regret it. And I think many

38:49

people regret their decision.

38:51

And it is harmful to us. 26

38:54

million people ask for

38:57

loan forgiveness because they're walking

38:59

around almost 40 years old with

39:01

all this debt. So what

39:04

if 26 million people spoke out and said, this

39:06

money myth, this lie that

39:08

we have to go to college, it's a lie. This

39:12

did not help us in any way. Now, some people,

39:14

I want to say the thing about mess and all

39:16

of this is there's always an exception to a rule.

39:19

There are people that become

39:21

lawyers, they pay off their debt right away, but

39:24

there's also doctors who can't get a residency

39:26

and have $300,000 in debt.

39:28

And then they're like, what do I do now? But for

39:30

me, this

39:35

myth is so harmful in the fact that we're allowing

39:37

young people to take on such

39:39

enormous debt. And for our generation,

39:42

we're carrying it around still. And it's prohibiting

39:44

us from

39:45

financially growing. Oh,

39:46

so painful. And

39:49

I do hope this loan forgiveness happens

39:51

because people need to be relieved

39:53

of that burden. But if it doesn't,

39:56

we can still flip the script. We can still choose our

39:59

story and say, what am I going to do about

40:01

this? How can

40:03

I pay for this? What

40:06

do I need to do to relieve ourselves

40:08

of the burden of college debt?

40:10

And I think everything you're talking about really goes

40:13

into this term that you coined that

40:16

you write under, that you're writing your new book,

40:18

you have a sub-stack that you write

40:20

under this, this bougie broke to financially

40:22

woke. And I think I

40:24

want to hear from you, for

40:26

me, what stands out with that saying

40:30

and that idea is that you have choice.

40:32

And

40:33

that's what

40:35

we're talking about with these money myths.

40:37

We can get to a point and maybe not

40:39

know how we got to that point. And that's totally

40:42

fine. That happens to all of us.

40:44

But then we have a moment where maybe

40:46

we could choose something different. And choosing

40:49

something different is a little bit hard because it takes

40:51

us out of our comfort zone, starting

40:53

new

40:54

patterns and creating new habits and behaviors

40:56

around money is difficult. I mean, I'm

40:58

not going to sugarcoat it. It's just it's difficult

41:01

because it's scary and brought with so

41:03

many of these money myths and false beliefs

41:05

and all of that.

41:06

But tell us a little bit more about this

41:08

idea of a bougie broke to financially woke.

41:11

How do we how do we make that transition? Yeah,

41:14

well, I define bougie broke as champagne taste

41:16

with

41:17

a beer budget. And how a lot

41:19

of us got here

41:21

was taken on student debt and following the American

41:23

dream. Let's talk about that for a second. I mean,

41:25

that's how we became bougie broke, is

41:28

that we're trying to keep up with this American dream and we can't

41:30

afford it. So that's just

41:32

a side note there that I really as I was

41:34

preparing for my time with you realize it's

41:37

that's how a lot of us got to bougie

41:39

broke. And it's also just trying to keep

41:41

up.

41:42

It's the idea of keeping up appearances to

41:44

keep up with the Kardashians and Instagram

41:47

and the American dream. And we're

41:49

willing to go into debt for this because we don't know how

41:51

else we're going to keep up with all

41:54

of this this pressure. And

41:57

it goes back to the financially woke part.

41:59

And that

41:59

to me, I define that as being

42:02

financially awake to your situation and

42:04

then making a choice. What are you going

42:06

to do about it? And that empowerment comes through

42:08

you to choose your story. And you're right, it

42:10

is difficult

42:11

to choose a different story.

42:13

But

42:14

when are you going to reach the point where you're like, man, my

42:16

story really stinks. I am

42:18

so sick of this being my life

42:21

and it's not working out. Maybe you have the house full

42:24

of stuff

42:25

with the credit card debt and you got the job

42:27

and you're miserable. I mean, that could be

42:29

you. So what are you going to do about it? Are you going

42:31

to keep living like that or are you going to choose something else? It's

42:33

all within our power to choose whatever it

42:35

is. And the only moment we

42:38

have to do that is right now, the

42:40

present moment. And so

42:42

choosing to be financially awake to

42:45

where we are and what we can do about it right now.

42:49

I love that. I love that. It's

42:52

a process. And I think that's what's beautiful

42:55

about what we're talking about here about the money myths

42:57

is that it's not going to happen overnight.

43:01

But you can get there. You can make changes. We've

43:04

done it and everybody listening can do

43:06

it too.

43:07

I know we're saving

43:10

a very special money myth, one

43:12

of your very, very favorites to kind of end

43:14

with. So I would love for you to

43:16

just

43:17

kind of tell us about this money myth that you really

43:19

want us to, you really

43:21

want it to like hit home with us. Yeah.

43:24

So women, we

43:26

walk around thinking that we're not good

43:29

with money, a lot of us without even

43:31

realizing it. And

43:33

what I want to do right now in this moment is

43:35

to debunk that myth that many, debunk

43:38

that myth that men are better at handling money

43:41

than women. Let me

43:43

say that again. I want to debunk the myth that men are

43:45

better at handling money than women. This

43:48

is actually not a fact.

43:51

Women and women are about equal when it comes to handling

43:54

money. Men have more confidence.

43:57

Women are better at saving.

43:59

And it is harming us

44:02

as women to believe

44:04

this lie.

44:05

Whether we subconsciously or unconsciously,

44:08

we're walking around believing that we are believing it.

44:10

Somehow, I know it's because it's so deeply,

44:13

this one runs deep, the

44:15

idea that we're not good with money. It

44:17

runs so deep for us and we are

44:20

fighting it every day. We

44:23

really do have to fight it every day. And women of color,

44:25

that bar is even higher. It

44:30

feels like an impossible thing to jump over, being

44:32

able to handle money and be good with money.

44:35

This one is very harmful

44:36

to half the population, which

44:38

is women. Yeah, I was just

44:41

talking to my husband the other day on a walk

44:43

when we were walking our plopowini. And I

44:45

just had this moment where I was like,

44:50

I mean, I feel like it's easy to say

44:52

it's hard to be a woman, but I'm

44:54

like, I don't sometimes know my place.

44:57

And I'm wondering if other

44:59

women kind of feel the same way.

45:02

I'm ambitious, but then I'm told not to

45:05

be too ambitious.

45:06

I want to make money,

45:09

but then I know that there are still

45:11

realities that I'm probably gonna make

45:13

less money than a male counterpart.

45:17

I've

45:19

never, I wanted kids and then I didn't want

45:21

kids, then I had a miscarriage and then I couldn't

45:23

have kids

45:24

and now I'm not having kids. And that

45:26

all felt weird to me. And I mean,

45:29

there's just so much around money and

45:32

around kind of a place in the world as

45:34

women. And

45:35

we're told we're given equal

45:38

opportunities now, but we're really

45:40

not. I mean, it's just, it feels like such

45:42

a weird place to be in. And

45:45

I know from sitting across

45:47

the table with so many different couples and

45:50

talking about their money situations that yet

45:53

a lot of times the women are even handling

45:55

the money in the relationship. And

45:57

sometimes the men are a little nervous.

45:59

about, admitting that that's

46:02

happening. And I'm like, what sort

46:04

of world are we living in where that's

46:06

how I think deeply ingrained these

46:08

myths are, and especially this one you're talking

46:11

about now. I mean, it's so

46:13

cultural that it feels weird

46:16

and awkward. I don't know what

46:18

the answer is. I'm just kind of rambling

46:21

here, but I just sort

46:23

of feel like we're in a weird place. And

46:25

I'm just, you know, I'm wondering, like, do other

46:28

women feel the same way? Absolutely,

46:30

they do. Absolutely. We asked this question

46:33

for ourselves, every single thing you asked, you

46:35

know, do I have a kid? Do I not have kids? Can

46:37

I afford this? Can I grow? Oh, my gosh, our brain

46:40

is going like 1000 miles an hour asking

46:42

these questions. And this goes back to claiming

46:44

it. I am worthy of having

46:46

money in my life. And I am capable of

46:48

bringing money into my life. I mean,

46:50

we really truly need to start believing

46:53

with such competence that we are capable of handling

46:55

money like

46:55

a white rich man. I mean, we

46:58

are equally capable of doing this. And,

47:00

you know, Ruth Bader

47:03

Ginsburg, I just watched a documentary of

47:05

her and she said the next step to equality

47:08

is women having money. And

47:10

this interview was like right before she passed.

47:13

And giving women actual

47:15

economic

47:16

equality is really the

47:18

beginning of women truly having

47:20

the same amount of power. And yes,

47:24

we walk around believing this, whether we want

47:26

to admit it or not. And I just

47:28

had a client tell

47:30

me that she is in terrible debt

47:33

right now. And that she

47:35

realized that her dad, when she was growing up, handled

47:38

all the money. So, you know, she

47:40

got money from him. He was

47:42

the source of money for his wife

47:45

and his two girls. 1000%. I think

47:48

so many of us can relate to that. Yeah, men

47:50

are the source of the money, right? They have it. And

47:52

we have to ask for it. We have to be very polite

47:54

and

47:55

kind and likable to get

47:57

it. And she graduated

48:00

from college and then, okay, now she's set

48:03

to go fly on her own. And

48:05

she stumbles and falls and goes

48:07

into terrible debt, trying to manage

48:09

it all. And she's walking

48:12

around with this belief that

48:14

men can handle money better than me. And I'm doing a really

48:16

bad job. And she's literally living it out.

48:19

Cause now her money is a,

48:21

you know, it's not, she can

48:23

always recover from everything, but she's having a very

48:25

difficult time.

48:27

Because she has now

48:29

allowed this belief to

48:31

inhibit her and make her feel powerless

48:33

to change her situation. Because

48:36

again, money can handle it or men can handle

48:38

it, not her. So we're working

48:40

on that, on working

48:42

on her mindset and her ability to really

48:44

believe she is capable of

48:47

changing her money story and that she can handle

48:49

money. It's just, you know,

48:51

there's that gap of learning. There's

48:53

a gap in learning there, financial

48:56

literacy, being willing to learn

48:58

and grow and make mistakes and invest

49:01

in women. We need to invest in

49:04

learning about it and

49:07

being taught it. That's the thing. None of us graduate

49:09

from high school or college ever being

49:11

taught about money yet. It runs our lives.

49:15

And it is my great passion to

49:17

teach women how to be financially confident

49:19

and to remind them that they are capable

49:22

of so much more because they are.

49:24

And could you imagine

49:27

a world where the women were just as

49:29

rich as the men? It would be so different. How

49:31

exciting.

49:32

Guilty as charged. I

49:35

am the first raised man to say

49:37

that I have believed a lot of these money

49:39

myths over the years, and I am still

49:42

recovering from those negative beliefs. So

49:45

I see you. I know you're right

49:47

there with me because I've talked to

49:49

so many of you about your own money myths

49:52

over the years and they suck. Sometimes

49:55

you don't even know they're there. They're

49:57

kind of like lurking in the shadows

49:59

of your brain.

49:59

keeping you from

50:01

feeling confident in your ability to

50:03

achieve goals. But they're there and

50:06

why not just get rid of them? So

50:09

I loved Whitney's empowering words in this

50:11

episode that it's possible to go from what

50:14

I call a money hot mess to money

50:16

success. Once you can really call

50:18

out these money myths and ditch them behind

50:21

you, just say, okay, these no longer work

50:23

for you. If you want to learn more

50:25

about Whitney or her program, The Money Reset,

50:27

a 90-day program that helps

50:29

women go from broke and broken to confident,

50:32

you can go to her website, whitneyannellis.com

50:35

slash reset to sign up for the program. I

50:38

will have a link in the show notes.

50:40

If

50:40

you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor,

50:43

send it to a few friends, like tell them, hey,

50:46

let's all get rid of some of this gunk that's

50:48

kind of getting in the way. It's like, go with

50:50

some of these money myths. As always,

50:52

you can have the show notes for all the links to our episode

50:55

guests, as well as sponsors who make this

50:57

show possible. And

50:58

I will see you, my friend, back here in a few

51:01

days for a brand new episode.

51:03

Thanks so much for being a listener. And I

51:06

am just so excited that

51:08

I'm here with you every week and that we get

51:10

to talk about these exciting topics

51:12

that hopefully help you feel so

51:15

much better about your relationship with money.

51:23

Wow, this person's trapped in the rock

51:26

story and we got to get them out

51:28

of that story. My name is Kevin Miller. I'm

51:30

the host of the Self Helpful podcast.

51:33

So many of the books that we

51:35

read about family relationships,

51:38

it's based on a theory.

51:39

Join me as I curate and translate

51:41

the most effective self-help wisdom to

51:44

help you elevate your personal experience

51:46

and improve the way you show up for others.

51:59

time to look away. He's unbelievable.

52:02

Because in the finals, everything

52:04

changes. Oh, it's good. Fate

52:07

collides with destiny. Today's

52:09

stars become tomorrow's inspirations.

52:13

And four wins turn the end

52:15

of a season into the start of

52:17

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