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0:50

Okay, this is my mother.

0:53

You want to say my name? Her

0:55

name is Melissa. All right.

0:58

And this is my son Joseph, and we

1:01

are kangaroos. And

1:04

Joseph, we should say you are currently

1:07

still in the pouch. Yeah, I

1:09

live in a pouch still. Okay.

1:12

It's awesome. It's like nature's pocket. Yeah.

1:15

But an apartment. And

1:18

I know typically

1:20

a joey, a baby kangaroo,

1:23

stays in there until around

1:25

eight months. And how long-

1:28

I mean, it's case by case basis. So

1:31

it's whatever you need, you know?

1:35

And how long has Joseph been

1:37

in there?

1:37

We're coming up on 17 months. And

1:43

I will say, and Joseph and I- Short

1:45

though. Two of them were February.

1:47

So what are we talking here? Two of them were February.

1:50

Two of them were also January. Two of them were-

1:52

is that what you mean? Because we've circled back through

1:54

the year? I meant those are short months. So

1:56

if it's going to be 17 months, at least it's two of the

1:58

shortest included. So it's practically 16

2:01

months. No leap years. Two

2:03

Februarys, no leap years. We're talking under

2:06

a year. I said to him, if you're old enough

2:08

to understand leap year, you're old enough to get

2:10

out of my body. I love leap

2:12

year. Are you kidding me? As a kangaroo, it's my favorite holiday.

2:16

So I take it, is this something you

2:18

all have, it sounds like it's something you all have been

2:20

discussing. Yeah, it comes

2:23

up quite a bit, especially I would

2:25

say the last eight months. The

2:27

last eight months, it's been a pretty frequent

2:30

topic of conversation. So for about

2:32

half the time he's been... I mean,

2:34

look at him. I'm big.

2:37

I'm big. And that's okay. It is

2:40

okay to be big, but you're big and you're

2:42

in my pouch. I know. I

2:45

love it. I mean, it's cool. You

2:47

know what? I get to... What's

2:49

more important in life than family, right?

2:52

And I've said to him, if

2:54

you permanently leave the pouch,

2:57

that doesn't mean that we are no longer family. That doesn't

2:59

mean that we... Okay, here we go.

3:01

Slippery slopes. Slippery slopes,

3:03

mom. I've said to him, you can bounce next

3:05

to me for the rest of your life. I said that,

3:08

and I mean that. You know I don't lie to you. She

3:10

doesn't lie to me. She's made me promises,

3:13

and they always come true. Is

3:16

it physically uncomfortable, I guess?

3:18

Yes. Okay. All

3:21

right. What? I mean, it's

3:23

comforting. You ever been in like a shirt that's a size

3:25

too small? That's the biggest thing I could compare

3:27

it to. You know? Yeah. It

3:30

just like squeezes you. Well,

3:32

let me hear about just physically real quick

3:34

what it feels like for you. Yeah.

3:37

Let's see. I'm trying to think if there's

3:39

anything I can compare it to in your human

3:42

life.

3:42

It's

3:46

probably like a combination of

3:48

you ate way too much, and

3:52

you have... what

3:55

are those called? Fanny pack. You have a fanny

3:57

pack,

3:57

and there's soup in it. Oh,

4:01

no. So you're full,

4:03

but then you've got this sloshy fanny

4:06

pack, because he's not attached

4:08

anymore.

4:09

No, I could leave. I do sometimes

4:12

at night. I leave at nighttime sometimes.

4:15

And that's the time I tell him, please don't go out there.

4:17

It's nighttime. The predators, it's

4:19

just like the decisions and the choices

4:21

that are made are upsetting. The

4:24

world is a scary place. You

4:29

all have predators. There are dingoes

4:31

and certain birds. Mm-hmm.

4:35

Even small predators. You don't think about that. But

4:38

one time there was a spider in the pouch.

4:42

In the pouch?

4:42

You...

4:44

I just need to clarify this. He left

4:46

the pouch at night,

4:47

which, again, I said don't do that. I

4:50

had to go to the bathroom. When

4:52

am I supposed to go to the bathroom in the pouch? Because we've had that talk.

4:54

Anyway, he goes,

4:56

right? And it's dark, so he doesn't know what's going on. He

4:59

brings back a little visitor.

5:01

A spider was on him. He gets back in the pouch.

5:03

Now I have a spider in my pouch.

5:05

I start screaming.

5:07

My mom starts screaming. She starts jumping

5:09

around. We end up in a lake.

5:13

I hate spiders.

5:15

If you have a pouch and

5:17

you live in a

5:20

place with the deadliest insects

5:22

on the planet... Yep.

5:25

There's always a possibility that that can crawl into

5:27

your pouch. That's why it's

5:29

good I'm there. Because it's not the way I help

5:31

people. You brought the spider in, Joseph. And

5:34

I was there. Oh my gosh.

5:41

Can we talk about

5:42

when Joseph was born?

5:44

Oh, yeah. Because I think,

5:46

you know, a lot of people don't know... a lot

5:48

of people don't know how it works, where

5:51

you're not born into the pouch. No. You're

5:54

born from the cloaca. Oh,

5:58

geez, I wanted to hear that. And

6:03

you are the size of a jelly

6:05

bean and you actually the first,

6:07

your first act, you're like

6:10

barely a living thing but you have to

6:12

climb the six or so

6:15

inches to get into the pouch. And

6:17

it seems like, I don't know, I think about

6:19

how helpless humans are when they're born and

6:22

that seems like so much responsibility

6:24

when you're not even recognizable

6:27

as a kangaroo yet. I'm sure you

6:30

remember it.

6:30

Oh yeah. It's also hard as the mom

6:33

not to help.

6:34

I wanted to just pick

6:36

his little jelly bean body up and just

6:39

plop him in but you got to let them

6:41

climb. It's hard. I

6:44

was truly like

6:44

bawling my fist just watching. Do

6:46

you remember it? I don't,

6:48

there's like moments of that like I

6:51

see in my mind, you know? But

6:53

it's not like clear. It's

6:56

like foggy a little bit, you know? I

6:58

do remember, the

7:01

first thing that I kind of remember

7:04

was being scared. I

7:07

was born scared because

7:09

the first, imagine you're born and the first thing

7:11

you have to do is go on a journey.

7:15

That journey

7:17

was so long and so scary.

7:20

It's the first big leap that you have to take

7:22

as a kangaroo. And

7:24

I remember as soon as I got in the pouch. It

7:27

was like, imagine

7:30

you snuggled up in a blanket but

7:32

that blanket was your mother.

7:33

I

7:35

could never have imagined that I would look

7:40

at a tiny pink

7:42

skin jelly bean. Yeah. I

7:44

mean I didn't even know where his eyes were.

7:47

But it was like I would die for

7:49

that pink skin jelly bean. If

7:52

somebody came up to me right now and tried to take that,

7:54

I

7:55

would murder that person or anything or

7:57

whatever. I often think if somebody tries

7:59

to threaten me it's... probably gonna be a human, so I'm

8:02

sorry. No, no, no, it's, you're not wrong. She's

8:06

not?

8:07

I hope it's okay to say

8:09

most animals

8:11

are cuter when they're babies.

8:14

Okay. A kangaroo, you,

8:16

Joseph,

8:17

you are cuter now than

8:20

you were then when you were a pink jellybean.

8:22

I had some whole good months. Yeah, I

8:25

think all kangaroos do. I think

8:27

it's just, it's just, you know, it's

8:29

like an insect. I'll tell

8:31

you this, I was an ugly baby too. Like

8:33

even kangaroo stanters. Among

8:36

the pink thing. People come

8:38

to see me, and I remember mom

8:40

being like, no, no, he's sleeping,

8:42

and I could hear, I'd be like, I want it, and then

8:45

she'd put her hand on the ground so no one could hear me.

8:47

She didn't want to show me to anyone. Yeah, I mean,

8:50

and with my sisters, we had a joke, because it's my sister,

8:52

so I didn't care. I would, the first time they met him,

8:54

I said,

8:55

are you ready? And we had to do it. I said, I'm

8:57

not exaggerating.

8:59

One, two, three, open the pouch, and

9:01

we just laughed. I

9:04

laughed too. It was OK. So

9:06

like, your, Joseph,

9:08

you're in and out of the pouch. Does

9:11

it get messy in there? Dirty? Is he

9:13

tracking things? I'm just thinking about my kid coming

9:15

in and out, and things just get very messy.

9:18

It's not supposed to get messy.

9:21

There is a period of time where the baby

9:23

gets out, hops around, and then maybe goes

9:25

back in. A little bit of dirt. It's

9:28

not designed

9:30

to have a kangaroo

9:32

this size.

9:34

Go in the middle of the night, pick up spiders,

9:37

and then come back.

9:39

It is not designed

9:40

for that. Let's just say I made the pouch my

9:42

own.

9:42

OK. There's posters

9:45

in my pouch.

9:49

He put up posters. Yeah,

9:51

because I'm expressing myself, Mom. It's

9:54

not your room. It's my pouch.

9:56

OK, I'm a kangaroo jack fan. He's

9:58

a kangaroo jack fan.

9:59

You didn't have posters, you probably

10:02

wish you could have posters in the pouch when you were a kid. Nope,

10:05

because I got out before I had things

10:08

that I was fans of. Only

10:10

thing I was a fan of when I was in the pouch was milk.

10:17

Hey Mrs. Mandy. Hi Mandy,

10:19

can you hear me okay? Yeah. Is

10:21

now an okay time? Yes,

10:23

how long is it gonna last?

10:25

Uh, just a few minutes I bet. Oh

10:27

right, cool.

10:28

Yep, yep that's fine. Sorry, we're just in the middle of doing

10:30

all the animals but yeah that's fine. What

10:32

are you, sorry, what'd you say you're in the middle of?

10:34

Feeding all the kangaroos.

10:35

Oh, um, so

10:38

you're, you're at the um, what

10:40

do I call it, a rescue or? Yeah,

10:42

wildlife rescue, yep. So how many

10:45

kangaroos do you have there now, say? Um,

10:48

maybe 45, 46. Some,

10:52

it's in my house,

10:52

the babies are in my house. So

10:54

what do they need from you when you take

10:57

them in, the babies? Well, the

10:59

little pinkies, they're fed every

11:02

three to four hours, all through the day

11:04

and night. So that's 24 hours feeding.

11:07

Sorry, do you call them little pinkies?

11:09

Yeah, when they've got no fur they're called pinkies.

11:12

Oh,

11:13

I watched a YouTube video of

11:16

a kangaroo being born and I couldn't

11:18

believe how small it is. It looks

11:20

like a little pink jelly bean. Little

11:22

jelly bean.

11:23

Yep, exactly. So I, uh,

11:26

I have a new baby at home and

11:28

I've been thinking about how much

11:31

the way caring for a

11:34

brand new baby human is just

11:36

kind of trying to simulate

11:38

what they experience in the womb. Yeah, yeah.

11:41

And I guess what you're doing is the same. You're, you're

11:43

doing the most you can to make it seem like they're

11:46

still in the pouch.

11:47

Exactly. Yeah. You got to have like the hanging

11:49

pouches that we got here. You have to

11:52

have them rounded on the bottom. Like some people

11:54

they'll say, oh, they put them in a pillowcase, but you shouldn't.

11:56

They've got to have the round bottom on the pouches

11:58

because.

11:59

then it's the same shape

12:00

as mum's pouch. So you have little

12:03

kind of artificial pouches that you

12:05

keep

12:06

the babies in?

12:07

Yeah, I've got like 12 hanging up in my

12:10

dining room at the moment, that's the kangaroo's

12:11

feeding. Yeah. And

12:13

do the pouches that are

12:15

in your dining room, do you also carry them around

12:18

in those when you're moving around? Yeah,

12:20

I work full-time as well. I work at school.

12:23

So the little ones come to school with me, so

12:25

yeah, I carry them around and then they have to come into

12:27

the supermarket, and whatever. So

12:32

what made you get into this work?

12:33

My husband and I were driving

12:36

back from Detroit, and we

12:38

were driving back, it was night, and he actually bumped through

12:40

red kangaroo's, and she

12:42

had little babies. So I raised that one, and

12:44

it just started from

12:45

there.

12:48

I understand this happens a lot, that

12:51

kangaroos get hit by cars. Is

12:53

that how a lot of the babies get

12:56

orphaned and end up with you?

12:57

Yeah, around here, like

13:00

we're pretty outback, we're pretty remote

13:02

out of town, and sometimes

13:04

if people hit the mums, they'll

13:06

check the pouch.

13:08

Some people just don't care,

13:10

but then another

13:11

car will stop. Like if

13:13

I see a dead roo on the road, I always stop

13:15

to move it off the road, so the birds don't get hit,

13:18

but also to check the pouch.

13:20

So is that just something that people

13:22

who live where you live know to do if

13:24

you see a dead kangaroo

13:27

to check its pouch to see if there's a live joey

13:29

in there? Yeah,

13:32

not everybody does it. Some people

13:34

don't care, but yeah,

13:35

a lot of people will. Wow.

13:38

Yeah.

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14:39

Let

14:39

me ask you this have you ever thought about

14:41

throwing him out

14:45

I've thought about it

14:48

But with a child in

14:50

your pouch

14:52

You have to literally throw

14:53

them out physically. Yeah, and

14:55

I can't

14:57

bring myself to do that. I just I Can't

15:00

do it. She would never When

15:04

we look in each other's eyes, she would never throw me

15:06

out I swear to God I could be 2,000

15:09

pounds and she'd still let me be in a pouch I

15:12

think I'd be dead. You don't know how durable

15:14

that pouch is.

15:15

I it's my pouch. So

15:17

yes, I do

15:20

Once had a dream

15:24

That I was in the pouch still and

15:26

you couldn't walk anymore and I was walking

15:28

my feet were on the ground and they were Hopping

15:31

and you were on my back, but I was in your pouch I'm

15:35

picturing her upside down

15:37

and the pouch is like a blindfold on your

15:40

am I picturing it, right? I Was

15:43

imagining my feet were almost popping

15:45

out the bottom Okay, but I

15:47

love this idea because I've been thinking about what

15:49

we're gonna do when she gets older I would love

15:51

to wear you like a backwards hat You

15:55

put the pouch around my head and I could hop you all

15:57

across this country. I mean

15:59

I mean, at this point, I've just turned into

16:02

like a suit for him to wear.

16:04

I'm no longer a mother. I'm different

16:07

pieces of clothing.

16:08

This is grotesque. So...

16:14

It sounds like you want him to

16:17

be independent, but you also kind of want

16:19

to be able to protect him still. Yeah,

16:21

I mean, he's still young.

16:24

I want him to grow and

16:26

start to become his own kangaroo

16:29

with me protecting him.

16:31

But I want to get

16:33

back out there. His

16:35

father and I are not together. Okay. I

16:38

want to start dating. I

16:41

mean,

16:42

he's still feeding

16:43

off of me, literally. Yeah. I

16:46

mean, he should be getting

16:48

his own food.

16:49

You taste good. Gross. What

16:52

do you mean? What? It's

16:54

a compliment. You're too old. I mean, if you are

16:56

old enough to say you taste good,

16:59

that's too old to be

17:01

drinking my milk.

17:01

I disagree. I know that you do. Mom,

17:04

this is okay. You know what I'm going to start doing, Ian?

17:06

I'm just going to start going

17:07

on dates. I'm just going to start going on

17:09

them, and you can be

17:10

in the pouch. Enjoy the conversation

17:12

and enjoy where it leads to. She already went on

17:14

one. She didn't think it was a date, but I knew the whole

17:17

time it was.

17:18

Well, the only reason I didn't think it was a date

17:20

is that it's a boomer,

17:22

a male kangaroo, called

17:25

a boomer,

17:27

not a 65-year-old human. I don't want

17:29

anyone to get confused. Because a male kangaroo is also

17:31

called a... Yes. And you know what's

17:33

interesting is we do have a thing in

17:35

kangaroo world where when a male kangaroo

17:38

says something that women are like, shut up,

17:40

we say, okay, boomer. We've been

17:42

saying that for at least

17:44

a century.

17:45

So anyway.

17:46

Human soul, our culture.

17:49

Right. Definitely. Okay, so

17:51

you're this boomer? He's just somebody

17:53

I've known for a long time, and he

17:56

asked if I wanted to go on a

17:58

bounce.

17:59

And

18:01

of course, I'm not thinking that's flirting, because

18:03

I've known him for so long. We practically grew up together.

18:05

I was flirting. You should have seen the way she was

18:07

playing with her hands.

18:09

You were flirting, Mom. Well, once

18:11

I realized what was happening, I started

18:14

getting into it. Yeah, sure. But I

18:16

just,

18:16

I didn't think it was a date at first.

18:19

And it didn't go anywhere, because

18:21

I was conscious that my son was there.

18:24

But now I'm not going to worry about that anymore. I'm just going to

18:26

do it.

18:27

I'm going to do it. I dare you. I

18:30

already said I do it. I don't need a dare. I dare

18:32

you. Okay, dare accepted. Okay.

18:34

Okay, enjoy. I will. Enjoy

18:36

having adult time. If you're going to date,

18:39

I should go on, too. You should go out with a

18:41

dad with a...

18:42

This is a great idea. If

18:45

I go on a date

18:46

with a boomer with a daughter,

18:49

will you get out of the pouch and hang out with

18:51

her while

18:51

I think... No, I thought she

18:53

could come in the pouch with me. No,

18:55

there are no girls

18:57

allowed in

18:57

the pouch with you. Are you kidding me, Mom? No,

19:00

I'm not kidding you. My friend,

19:02

John,

19:03

has girls in his mom's pouch all the time.

19:05

John's mom is an idiot.

19:07

Okay. John's mom...

19:08

She's a fun idiot.

19:10

No, she's not. John's mom also lets John

19:12

bring in deadly creatures into the pouch

19:15

and do God knows what with them.

19:17

He probably eats them. Yeah, he does.

19:19

Well, some of them are filled with poison. Okay, well,

19:22

he's still alive, and he has girls in the pouch,

19:24

okay? And I look like a loser. Why

19:26

don't you go into John's mom's pouch? Go hang out

19:28

with John in the pouch and

19:28

invite over a couple girls. You know what Mom might have?

19:33

I've gone into John's mom's pouch. Her

19:36

pouch is warmer.

19:39

That's because there's already another

19:41

kangaroo in

19:42

it. I don't know the physics,

19:44

but her pouch is warmer. So I've been in other pouches,

19:46

Mom. Okay, then go move in with John.

19:48

Go move in with John.

19:50

Can I... Sorry. I

19:53

apologize. I really apologize.

19:54

No, it's okay. I did not expect that piece of information.

19:56

Why do you get upset? You want me to leave your

19:59

pouch so bad.

19:59

Are you upset that I'm trying other pouches?

20:02

Ian, I've said

20:04

multiple times he would be jumping next

20:06

to me. Hmm.

20:18

I know that maybe one day,

20:22

maybe one day, I'll

20:23

have

20:25

my own family. But

20:29

until then, you're my only family.

20:34

Right, but you're never going to get to until then

20:36

if you're in my pouch. No one's going

20:38

to want to date you.

20:41

When you picture your

20:43

life, you know, when you're a boomer,

20:46

and maybe you have a partner

20:49

and some joeys. Yeah. What

20:54

does that look like? When you see that in your mind, what does it look like? I

20:59

guess it's just me.

21:04

I'm big. My

21:06

wife, she's there.

21:09

She's got four or five

21:12

joeys in her pouch.

21:14

Sounds nice. My

21:17

mom's there every so

21:19

often. We huddle up as a family

21:21

and I get inside her pouch.

21:23

As a grown boomer?

21:26

Yeah.

21:28

This is worse than I thought, Ian. It's worse

21:30

than I thought. This

21:36

is The Animals, a project from

21:39

Everything is Alive. It's produced by

21:41

Jennifer Mills and me, Ian Chilog,

21:44

with Evil Warchover. Hilary

21:46

Frank is our editor. Melissa

21:48

and Joseph, the Kangaroo and Joey, were

21:50

played by Alex Dixon and Sebastian Canelli.

21:53

You can see Alex and Sebastian

21:56

performing live every Sunday evening

21:58

at Caveat in New York City. as

22:00

part of Rat Scraps. Sebastian's

22:03

podcast is called Loud About

22:05

Nothing. He's on Instagram at Sebastian

22:07

Canelli and you can find more from Alex

22:10

at alexandra-dixon.com.

22:14

A big thanks to Mandy Watson at

22:16

Kangaroo Haven in Australia and

22:19

thanks to Caleb White from whom we

22:21

first learned male kangaroos

22:23

are also called boomers.

22:27

The Animals is a proud member

22:29

of Radiotopia from PRX. Audrey

22:32

Martovich, executive producer. Yuri

22:34

Lasordo, director of network

22:36

operations. Thanks as always

22:39

to Emily Spivak. If you want

22:41

to support this project tell your friends or

22:43

your animals. We also have t-shirts

22:46

you can find them via our website everythingisalive.com.

22:51

We'll be back with another animal in

22:54

two weeks.