My name's Eksteen De Waal, and today I'm talking to Rieneke Deelstra. One of the things that's always struck me about Rieneke is that she's not somebody that brags, even though she's done some amazing things in life. She's led large-scale transformations within government, she has consulted and coached leaders at the highest level in local government and in the civil service, and at the same time, part-time, she's also qualified as a clinical psychologist. She just gets on with it and gets it done, and it's such a way that everybody just feels comfortable with her. Now, most coaches probably achieve this, but Rieneke is really special in this regard. She's got a way of helping you see a different perspective without it being forced, and I think that's an amazing ability. Now can you imagine how wonderful that is in a time of crisis? 

So today we talk about what leadership in a crisis means. What is the impact on top leadership, middle management, and on the employees that work with the clients or the customers?

So we start talking about what does it mean now for hybrid working? What is the scope of what we term as crisis, or in a crisis how do we get our scope as clear as possible? Then we talked about what it is to impress leaders. We then go on to talk about what working with teams means for their improvement during a time of crisis, and how do you interact with your employees in a time of crisis.

How does confidence feature into this and how can reflection with others and bouncing ideas off of others help you? We also talk about how lonely it is at the top, and about the importance of cognitive empathy, and then looking at triggers and previous traumas and how that feeds into a crisis. We then do a quick stop where we talk about coaching versus psychiatry or psychology. And we talk about the attitudes towards. But also attitudes towards security, peace of mind, vulnerability and even mental health in leaders. 

I wonder if Rieneke knows how blessed people are to work with her. And I'm not just gushing. Iit's always a genuine pleasure to talk to her and I find her insights very valuable. I think talking about middle-management and the impact of loneliness in senior management has yet again shone light for me on that we tend to forget that leaders are just people.

When we lead organizations, we also need our support. We also need those people that fight for us. They'll tell us we're doing an okay job, as long as they’re not yes-sayers and they’re people that can understand the vulnerabilities, but at the same time, also be honest and straight up with us. I think those kinds of people need to be cultivated, especially ones with high cognitive empathy that can show you things that you may not be able to see.