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0:08

This is a fine mess, isn't it?

0:11

I want some mess. Hey,

0:16

You know what I wish though? I

0:20

wish

0:20

the world would just go away. She

0:23

us for a long time.

0:33

This is a marriage proposal?

0:34

Yes. Yep. So

0:37

what do you say? Welcome

0:39

to eyes on Gilead, our weekly

0:41

podcast dedicated to the handmaid's tale.

0:44

There is a lot going on in this show,

0:45

and we think it helps to talk it out after

0:48

every episode.

0:48

I'm together with Williams, and when

0:50

I'm not doing this, I'm head of pure net SPS on

0:52

demand,

0:53

and I'm joined once again

0:55

by my colleague's friends and fellow resistors.

0:57

Natalie Hanley, Managing editor at

0:59

SPS voices. Hello. Hope Island,

1:02

Channel Manager of SPS On Demand. Hi,

1:04

and

1:05

Santa Catar, host of ABC Radio Nationals

1:07

all in the mind. Hey, hey, hey, hey,

1:10

hey. This season's going away

1:12

too quickly. We have just

1:14

watched episode nine, if you can believe

1:16

it, of season five of the Handmaid's

1:18

Tale. And it's the penultimate episode

1:21

of season five. Outrageous.

1:23

Anyway, it's called

1:25

Allegiance and it was written

1:27

by Eric Tuchman and directed by

1:29

Bradley Whitford. Perhaps you've heard

1:31

of you.

1:33

June and Luke prepare for a

1:35

rescue

1:35

mission. Luke Bank told June Osborne,

1:37

may introduce commander lodge your dance. Sir,

1:40

come on. Ma'am?

1:41

Commander, Serena experiments with

1:44

new tactics to have it all. Missus

1:46

Wheeler. Certainly, I

1:48

will opt for next time.

1:52

Indeed. So let's

1:55

get into this one and say, what

1:57

stood out for each of us? Let's go around

1:59

the room,

1:59

Samna. I'm gonna start with you. What stood

2:02

out for you this week?

2:03

Well, I debated whether or not to go with this

2:05

one because it's an unserious pick,

2:07

you know, for fear of judgment, but I'm gonna go with it

2:10

anyways. My highlight

2:12

was AudioEye. Don't

2:15

judge. I know this is a very serious show with very

2:17

serious themes, but this week, you know,

2:19

I just wow. He was gorgeous and he

2:21

had one very powerful line or a couple of very

2:24

powerful lines. But the second he said

2:26

my aim is to come home to my daughter.

2:28

I was like, there it goes. It ain't coming

2:30

home. Exactly. Yes. No.

2:33

I thought the exact same thing that he's like dreamboat

2:35

is not coming back. He was beautiful.

2:38

He was beautiful.

2:39

Fun fact that he is

2:41

Brendan Morgan, and he

2:44

was a Canadian bachelor.

2:45

That's the paradox last year. So

2:47

Really? Oh my god. That makes so much sense

2:49

now. Yeah. Absolutely. I'll look at

2:51

him moving up in the world. I'm happy friends.

2:53

And all the symbols in this episode, like

2:55

everyone's talking about being a symbol. Mhmm. Commander,

2:58

good kind of commander, a larger fans, was

3:01

certainly a symbol. And yes, it clearly had an impact

3:03

on the tape. And to go

3:05

watch the bachelor Canada now. Yeah.

3:08

Bachelor in Paradise last year. all

3:11

alright. Who's gonna top that one? There's

3:14

no need to do that. Forget it. Katie,

3:16

you're up. What stood up for me this week?

3:19

My highlight was Hannah writing,

3:21

Hannah. No. That's

3:23

it. That's a good one. Yeah. I know.

3:25

because it means

3:26

so much, it means that she hasn't forgotten

3:28

who she is and, you know, where

3:30

she comes from and, yeah,

3:32

that was definitely my highlight.

3:34

Yeah. Hannah, in all caps, and underlined

3:37

as well. Yeah. I

3:39

swear that was one of mine too. I'm not totally

3:41

flipping.

3:44

But back to Elijah. Exactly.

3:49

Natalie, what stood up for you? Well,

3:52

Following

3:52

Elijah, how do we not say the

3:54

Nick and June reunion?

3:55

That

3:57

has to be up there. with

3:59

Nick saying everything. It

4:02

was actually such a romcom moment for me with

4:04

like a beautiful background and him

4:06

saying all the romantic things. And so,

4:08

yes, that is gonna be a standout moment

4:11

for me this episode. I get you now.

4:13

I it was actually the close like,

4:15

second highlight right

4:16

under the Hannah running Hannah. I've got written

4:18

down my notes was June's post

4:21

Nick smile. Yeah. very

4:24

nice. It was a very lovely smile.

4:26

Interesting. Alright.

4:27

I I didn't get any of that kind of feeling

4:29

about that same bit. Okay. I know I've made stupid

4:32

theories in the past. I this one really

4:33

happened. I'm not suggesting a slide, the bridge keeps

4:35

going. I'm not gonna go there

4:37

with this, but

4:37

yeah. No. No. I think he Yeah.

4:40

Anyway, we'll we'll get to the website. No.

4:42

No. No. I mean, nothing major, but yeah. I think he burned

4:44

his spreadsheet. He's Kelly had to turn through.

4:46

I don't think it was a smile. I have yes. That's

4:48

what I thought too, actually. But, yes, we can

4:50

talk about that when

4:51

we get there. I

4:52

did notice all the hands. I mean, this show is all about

4:55

showing hands and, you know, by his hand and by her hand,

4:57

etcetera. Everyone's very handsy. This

4:59

this episode.

5:01

You know, hands on shoulders, missus

5:03

McKenzie, on rose,

5:04

and -- Yeah. -- Lawrence on his

5:06

fiance? Naomi.

5:10

And Alignus, of course, on Serena. Yeah.

5:12

Aligna. Go it on. Boom. Yes.

5:14

So that that's not a very fully formed sort there, but

5:17

just everyone

5:17

being

5:18

handsy. So

5:21

let's move on. We we open in

5:23

the hanger. under the banner of the

5:25

American flag with the doors opening.

5:27

It's full of promise. You know, we found

5:29

Hannah. She's in Colorado Springs

5:31

reformer US Air Force Academy that's

5:34

just being repurposed as a white school.

5:36

So she and her fellow plums are

5:39

there and some friendly

5:41

Wink

5:41

wink has given to L0B

5:43

Intel. And

5:44

it sounds like an amazing mission. Drop in, drop

5:47

out, get thirty of the kidnapped kids

5:49

Sounds great if it plays out like that, doesn't it?

5:51

But I didn't know how they were like going to

5:53

specifically just get the kids that were stolen.

5:56

Like,

5:56

they were very specific about that. And I

5:58

thought, how? How are they actually gonna do that?

6:01

Anyway, we never actually got to that point there to

6:03

be. Also, well, interestingly in

6:05

that scene, they're in an airport hangar, but we never once

6:07

see fighter jet. I don't know if the budget perhaps

6:09

didn't allow, you know, allow for a plane there,

6:11

but we never actually sunny planes in

6:13

the Dyer scene. So perhaps

6:15

they were never gonna go. We

6:19

heard the we heard it and yes. Or the

6:21

situation room for summer. Yep. I

6:23

was thinking, you know, across this whole

6:25

series, Jude's been looking for an army.

6:27

You know, she's been trying to find what is my army. And now

6:29

she's got to military might behind

6:32

her. Right. I mean, you can see how that plays out. But

6:34

careful what are these you wish for or you

6:37

have a legences with, So there's

6:39

a lot of that I have got shot across this

6:42

episode, but more and obviously June

6:44

adopts that position. in

6:47

the later scene.

6:48

But before that, we're off to the wheelers.

6:51

Serena, she's

6:52

becoming a photo op again.

6:54

Noah is her prop. or maybe Sabrina's the

6:57

prop either way, both of them are props. And,

7:00

yeah, it's all starting to play out here with

7:02

Aranas. played by Genevieve Angelston

7:04

who's doing a very good job. This is

7:07

isn't she? Yeah.

7:08

She was actually my second highlight. Like,

7:10

she is who knew that we could get a

7:12

more annoying, horrible, but

7:15

amazing wife, villain, than

7:17

Serena? Like, she's actually fantastic

7:20

to watch. Yeah. She's studied

7:22

the surrealists of the world, and, yeah, she's bringing this

7:24

forceful charm, a little

7:26

bit greased with a spoony. I don't know

7:28

if it's Did she say like it? very tightly

7:30

wound, like a very a type kinda,

7:32

I don't know, crazy coming through. Yeah.

7:35

Just that threatening all those threatening niceties,

7:37

there's

7:37

that veneer of it. that she can barely

7:40

break through, but obviously, she she does

7:42

later. But, yeah, the ordering,

7:45

Serena, to use the bottle instead of breastfeeding

7:48

my smart middle boy.

7:50

No. No.

7:52

It's not

7:52

even passive aggression anymore reasons. No.

7:54

Yeah. It's aggression aggression. Couple

7:57

of things to mention on color in this episode.

7:59

In this

7:59

scene, they both of them as they're

8:02

having it out about bottle versus press. They're

8:04

in a room that's the very much the handmaid's red.

8:06

Mhmm. But when the camera is on Serena, the

8:08

room behind her is the wife

8:11

teal. So it's very much like representing,

8:13

you know, her past life, you

8:14

know, where she used to be

8:16

directly behind her. But interestingly, When

8:19

we get to the scene a little bit later,

8:21

quite a bit later where she's going to visit

8:23

Ryan Wheeler in his study,

8:26

She's walking away from a room

8:28

that's the handmade spread into his study,

8:31

which is kind of washed in the TL. So sort of

8:33

the opposite of what's happening in the in the breast bottle

8:36

scene. But what's significant about that -- Mhmm. -- I

8:38

thought was it kind of foreshadows

8:41

what's about to come at the end of the episode.

8:43

And I only made this connection sort of after watching

8:45

the episode. So she had

8:47

teal wife behind her, her past behind her,

8:50

in the earlier scene. And then in this Rhine Wheeler

8:52

scene, she's walking away from the handmade spread

8:54

into the the wife colors. And

8:56

that's kind of like by the end of the episode, she's

8:59

running away from her handmade roll,

9:02

you know, making a break for freedom. So it's

9:04

very minor, but I wondered if, like, that was

9:06

part of foreshadowing, she was about to leave the

9:08

handmade red behind properly.

9:11

Yeah. Right. Good pick up. Yeah. That's a nice pick

9:13

up. I'm gonna go very much it.

9:15

I feel like I've last stopped clocking all

9:18

the colors -- Yeah. -- because each scene just seems

9:20

to be a wash with

9:21

various colors. I

9:24

agree. Yeah. That are really symbolic in the series,

9:26

but you're right. This that totally feels like it's

9:28

intentional. Yeah. I know. I I actually stop

9:30

clocking it after while too because everything's just either

9:32

teal or red, really. But the way

9:35

these were positioned and the way she was moving and

9:37

where where the colors were in relation to Serena,

9:39

I thought was communicating something. Mhmm.

9:41

Very good. In this one, I was

9:43

less looking for the colors. I was looking at

9:45

Serena's outfits and just noticing

9:47

how you know, how beautifully and

9:50

exquisitely tailored she has been. Yeah.

9:53

Not so much now. Like, even even the wifey

9:55

dress that she had on

9:56

for the photo shoot, the Oh,

9:58

the collar was a little

9:59

not quite as chic as gilead tailoring

10:02

normally is in there and then the other the peppermint,

10:04

I guess, outfit, you know, like just

10:06

it's not the they're not sending the best

10:08

clothes for for Serena. She's a little

10:10

bit frumpy, but she's a breastfeeding mum.

10:12

Like, she needs the open loose collars to, you

10:14

know, get quick access. But, yeah,

10:16

you're right. and then the next stage

10:18

is Lawrence and Lydia and

10:21

the proposal. T?

10:24

No. thank you. But please

10:27

have some yourselves. That

10:30

god awful proposal wasn't it? Who

10:32

saw that coming?

10:33

I did not. That

10:35

could have been highlight as well actually. Yeah. You know

10:37

what I mean? Is this a proposal? This

10:40

is such a great line. And

10:43

his is front is Yep. Yep. So what

10:45

do you say? Yeah.

10:48

Look, where do you start with this? I

10:49

don't know. Well, I love it. She comes in thinking

10:51

that she's gonna be sent off to the colonies, you know. And

10:53

then they're just like, that'd be ridiculous. It

10:55

could've be it could've very realistically gone that

10:57

way. But Yeah.

10:59

She's terrified and then suddenly

11:01

it's the

11:02

least romantic proposal

11:03

known to man. She also

11:05

pivots really quickly, like, things

11:07

like commander's wives. Just give me whiplash, you

11:09

know. Like on the one hand, she thinks that she's about

11:11

to go to the colonies. And as soon as she realizes

11:14

that she isn't all of a sudden, She's

11:16

just imagined herself in a fancy suburb,

11:18

in a nice apartment. And it's like,

11:20

okay.

11:21

Maybe a nice condo in Brookline

11:24

or back

11:24

for peace sake. We're not we're not your realtors.

11:28

Oh, you.

11:30

In that case -- Yeah.

11:33

I mean, you have to keep your wits about you though at Gilead,

11:35

so

11:35

you you have to be prepared for anything. Yeah.

11:37

I think Naomi Putnam is legitimately

11:39

terrified in the scene, though. Mhmm. And she

11:41

asks that question at the end,

11:44

do I have a choice in this? And

11:46

Lydia and Lauren

11:48

said, like, of course, think it over, but

11:51

if

11:51

I was near me, I would be thinking

11:53

that I don't have a choice in this. So

11:55

it was interesting kind of seeing it

11:57

from Lawrence's side where it's a little

12:00

bit awkward and That's

12:02

it. But Yeah. I think Naomi's terrifying.

12:04

But maybe think about them because

12:06

what are her options? And, you know, Gilead

12:09

needs like a Tinder or something where she can

12:11

see who the available up and coming

12:13

commanders are. And I thought that's kinda linear.

12:15

She's like the matchmaker of

12:18

Gilead. Mhmm. Should I have bibles

12:20

of men? Yeah. Yes.

12:22

But, like, this for me look,

12:25

all of Bradley Whitford scenes

12:27

are always enjoyable because he he gets such great

12:29

lines and delivers him so well.

12:31

But he was in a way that we haven't seen him

12:33

before. He he was, like, properly

12:35

ruffled. I think he's maybe the

12:37

word I'll use.

12:37

Like, he was very uncomfortable and

12:40

nervous and, like, he's always kind

12:42

of bossing Lydia around. Right? But

12:44

this time, he was actually genuinely appreciative

12:47

in thanking her for being there. And

12:49

I thought, wow, we have not seen you like

12:51

this before.

12:53

which brings me to the fact that he actually

12:55

directed the episode. And look, I don't

12:57

know

12:58

what that's like to be an actor and sort

13:00

of direct yourself. because I would

13:02

imagine, like, if it was me, I would imagine

13:04

that I would choose an episode, which I was hardly

13:06

in. But do you think that, like, he's

13:09

directing an episode where not only

13:11

is he in it like a lot. Here,

13:14

we're also seeing him behave and do things

13:16

that haven't seen before. So that sounds incredibly

13:18

difficult to me. So hats

13:20

off to Bradley Whitford.

13:22

Yeah. I think you you still

13:24

see the bravado, and he brings that kind

13:26

of aloofness that

13:28

that is his kind of might

13:30

as well brand eye in in Gillette. But behind

13:32

closed doors, you can see him hovering behind

13:36

the door hearing Naomi speak

13:38

truthfully to Lydia, like he had Warren

13:40

killed right in front of me. Though he loses that

13:42

bravado when he's

13:43

away from from them. And,

13:45

yeah, this whole thing is interrogating

13:47

Eleanor and her impact on

13:49

him -- Mhmm. -- he's guilt about

13:51

the way that their relationship disintegrated because

13:53

of his own actions and her resentment for that.

13:56

So, yeah, yeah, good good point. This is a great episode

13:58

to to handle with for the character

13:59

that you've you've played to date,

14:02

and, yeah, just showing

14:03

what he's really like, hovering

14:05

behind the door of his office, listening to pick up

14:07

the day. No.

14:08

You would say no about it. When

14:10

Naomi says he had my husband

14:12

killed in front of me. It struck me that

14:14

this scene was very Game of Thrones,

14:17

you know, in a in a way because Lawrence is

14:19

now trying to take the wife of the man

14:21

he killed. The guy who he was sparring

14:24

with for power beforehand and now he's gonna take

14:26

his widow and his child. Like, it just felt

14:28

very like a medieval exchange of goods

14:30

kind of happening here. Mhmm. It's

14:32

just little bit gross as well. Yeah.

14:34

extremely. But by the end, looks

14:36

like she's come around to the idea or,

14:38

you know, such the choice such as it was.

14:41

Yeah.

14:41

Well, I can say, like, that's what I found really

14:43

funny about it actually was how different

14:45

Naomi and Serena are because Laurence,

14:48

just Laurence had hand in Fred's

14:50

death, Serena knew about it. but

14:52

she was really trying to become missus

14:54

Joseph Lawrence. Whereas like Naomi

14:56

has kind of been a very similar like, situation

14:59

and she doesn't wanna have a bar of it. And

15:01

Just maybe think that Naomi and

15:04

Joseph Florence, they're really not matched. You know,

15:06

they're not intellectually matched

15:08

in any way at all. And I

15:10

know, Fiona, that you have predicted that

15:12

maybe Lawrence will die by the

15:14

end of the season. And I really have

15:16

big stakes around it because I just wanna see how this

15:18

terrible marriage plays out. Maybe

15:21

that's partly why he chose Naomi as

15:23

opposed to Serena as well. Maybe Lawrence didn't want

15:25

an intellectual match. You know? is

15:28

another weak man who can't stand a strong woman,

15:30

I'm sure. So I don't

15:33

think we've seen all of Naomi

15:34

yet. You know, like she's some

15:36

Yeah. She was scheming a little bit with

15:39

Serena there trying to intimate to take a

15:41

baby. But, yeah, that that was great

15:42

seeing them and seeing, you know, another

15:44

side of her that we haven't haven't seen before.

15:47

Mhmm. Good stuff. Alright. On

15:49

to the wheelers, to that nighttime

15:51

visit that Serena pays to Ryan not

15:53

to place gravel. This one, she's putting

15:55

her bottles in the fridge and then

15:58

trying on the charm, which he

16:00

calls out, you know, he sufficiently butter up.

16:02

What do you want? And here again,

16:04

there's mentions of symbols. There's there's a lot of

16:06

scenes where someone's mentioned as being a symbol

16:08

or whatnot, and she's putting

16:10

herself forward, arguing why she needs a place

16:12

at the almost open

16:15

fertility center. That was her idea. So

16:17

the world needs to see the mighty

16:19

missus Waterford and her Progyny,

16:23

which was a good pitch apparently, and

16:26

I think what I'm kind of learning from these moments

16:28

with Serena and the

16:30

wheel is speaking of marriages, they

16:32

clearly don't talk. because -- Mhmm.

16:34

-- Alana's keeps getting surprised by

16:37

Serena going behind her back and talking to her husband.

16:40

I thought, jeez. Like, he's really not keeping

16:42

her in the loopsy.

16:43

He is not.

16:45

No. They are not communicating. They barely look each

16:47

other in the eye. Or he gets a he

16:49

gets a glare. later on when -- Mhmm. -- makes

16:52

a point of that. That's some duration. Yes.

16:55

That that's think that's the first eye contact they've had

16:57

in a long time. Yes. But

16:59

clearly, it works because she's going to get

17:01

off to the opening.

17:03

Well, one thing that's reminds me of, I think

17:05

Elena said it in the first argument

17:07

with Serena. She said my husband doesn't answer

17:10

to those commanders in Gilead. And

17:12

I thought, if he doesn't, then

17:14

who the hell is he really? We have lot more to

17:16

learn about mister Ryan

17:18

Wheeler. I I we're still not clear on

17:20

what his relation is to Gilead proper. Yeah.

17:23

I I found that really interesting. peeked my

17:25

Yes. That wasn't quite an interesting line

17:28

to drop in the episode. Wasn't it? because

17:30

I thought I wonder how that's gonna

17:32

play out. And

17:33

it sounds like it could be going rogue.

17:36

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really a property, isn't

17:38

it? Because that's what Serena has to live on as

17:40

part of her

17:41

deal.

17:42

So they're living on that, but he doesn't answer to

17:44

them. And he's

17:44

got his black ops -- Mhmm. cross

17:47

border outfit going on. But

17:48

he's involved in the fertility center opening. So

17:51

there's like, you know, there's a lot of Gilead

17:53

involvement clearly, but why does

17:55

he not

17:55

answer to them saying? probably financing

17:57

it. Right. And

17:59

yes. So part of Serena

18:02

buttering him up was Gilead could have used men

18:04

like you in those early days to avoid

18:05

those missteps. never

18:07

mind friend's memory, but yes. Yes.

18:10

And he's praise b she says

18:12

praise b and he says, oh, yeah.

18:14

It doesn't have the lingo down

18:16

either. They're very ungilliardian -- Mhmm.

18:18

-- gilliardians. Did we miss

18:20

over, by the way, his funny line

18:22

of when she says, do you have a moment?

18:24

And he's like, you're gonna shoot me? Are you gonna shoot me?

18:29

Is he our Canadian Lawrence? Are our

18:31

sarcastic Canadian Lawrence? Yes.

18:34

He does have this

18:34

layer of self

18:35

awareness that his wife definitely

18:38

doesn't. And it does seem at times

18:40

in this episode that he's Siding

18:42

with Serena, you know, on a certain

18:44

level, like, the comments he makes to in

18:46

that in that room, letting her go to the information

18:48

center, and definitely that line, Fiona,

18:51

where he kind of insinuates that the baby

18:53

will determine how long the feed takes,

18:55

not -- Uh-huh. -- missus Wheeler. Yeah.

18:58

But

18:58

it's kind of like the story of always with

19:00

Gilead. The husbands were always little

19:02

bit laxer or had a bit of leeway to either

19:04

go to Jezebels or, you know, acknowledge

19:07

the absurdity of their surrounds whereas the women

19:09

whether for their own survival or whether for their

19:12

own true belief just like we're completely belief

19:15

fundamentally believing, you know, everything and going

19:17

along with it.

19:17

Yeah. The title of this episode is

19:19

allegiance as well. So there's all the little ways that you

19:21

can see who who's siding with who

19:23

I'm sure Elana's as well as

19:26

well across the lines, divisions,

19:28

into Serena's side. Would love to

19:30

be a fly on the wall when she bolts out the back.

19:34

and they notice it. But

19:36

any who down to the situation

19:38

room for the raid, it's quarter to midnight,

19:41

June, and Luke there because

19:43

June rightly made the point. It's all

19:45

happening because of the intel that they got.

19:47

But anyway, June she takes

19:49

the I have got position that that we've

19:52

we're normally seeing as viewers, but now she's got

19:54

one of Hannah as the

19:56

plums are all saying there. prayers

19:59

and getting off

19:59

to their makeshift bedrooms. They're very

20:02

cozy little tents. I quite like that.

20:04

Yeah. But it's like a it's like a panopticon

20:07

with the -- Well, Yeah. Not that part.

20:09

aren't in the middle to surveying

20:10

them all. Totally.

20:12

Well,

20:12

I was actually I really enjoyed the fact that

20:14

it was the eye as come back because I haven't

20:17

really noticed that like a like a lot

20:19

of the times in the show, we would see an eye and it

20:21

might be down a stairwell. I

20:23

think last season, it was in

20:25

the layout of or the refugees

20:27

having their therapy circle. And

20:30

so this time, all of their plums beds

20:32

were all in the shape of an eye. And I thought, oh,

20:34

the eye has come back this season. I

20:36

hope I haven't missed it in the previous episodes,

20:38

but I enjoyed seeing it this time. Yeah.

20:40

That one. You couldn't miss that. Could you? The

20:42

the way that we set up, that looked like wagon

20:44

train me. Like, they, you know, they all they look like bonnets

20:47

on Western's in in my near days, old

20:49

oldie world you look about them. But yes.

20:51

And there's that hopeful suggestion through

20:54

editing that they're making some sort of connection

20:56

by she's looking up and June's looking

20:58

down and there's some sort of connection in there.

21:01

thoughts and prayers. A little reminiscent of last

21:03

week when there were marriage in the garden beds

21:05

in, you know, June looking up at night

21:07

and kinda looking up in the daytime. There's some

21:09

sort of metaphysical connection they

21:11

still share if they can't be together because

21:13

they certainly aren't together because of this

21:15

scene. But, yes, Hannah's picture

21:18

book keeps the secret as you revealed, Haiti?

21:21

How and why does she have a pencil? Yeah.

21:23

Who are the rules changing? Are

21:25

things getting a bit more lax? had she

21:27

maybe snuck it in because she was,

21:29

you know, kept looking up like she was,

21:32

you know, obviously doing something she wasn't meant to.

21:34

So I had wondered if maybe it was contraband.

21:37

It wasn't very concealed though. I thought maybe

21:39

for drawing. Like, I thought maybe drawing

21:41

to loud, but I don't know. Oh, what are your line

21:43

at Wipes? school. Am I forgetting a detail?

21:45

Or was there significance in the

21:48

card that she had torn that she wrote on

21:50

that had the little flower drawing

21:52

on it.

21:53

I wonder if that's something from before.

21:55

I don't know if it's from before, but I think the garden

21:57

and flower

21:58

-- Mhmm. -- that's the bond she shared

21:59

with June. You know, June's flowering

22:02

so furiously.

22:03

She's she's putting

22:06

making things grow and putting down roots

22:08

in in Canada. And I I think that, you know, they both

22:10

love gardening and then it carries on other

22:12

nine. But that's one take I

22:14

talk. Yeah. Yes.

22:16

It all goes to shit. The

22:19

Gilead intercepts it. That was terrible intel.

22:21

Thanks.

22:22

Florence, And

22:23

probably thanks Nick too, mister

22:25

defense. Mhmm. Don't we think? A little bit of McKenzie

22:27

in there

22:27

as well. Yeah. Big time. So

22:31

we hardly knew you

22:32

Elijah, but it's

22:35

all plants down. All three plants down. No survived.

22:37

It's terrible. I'm more into Elijah. Yeah. Yeah.

22:40

is June's first

22:40

heartbreak of the episode. I think has

22:42

two heartbreaking moments. This is

22:44

the this is the first one. And

22:47

I guess downside, you know, of claiming

22:49

to be in the room when it happens because you were the

22:51

one that brought the intel if you're gonna take that level of

22:53

responsibility. then when

22:55

it all goes wrong, you're

22:56

also gonna take that level of responsibility.

22:59

So, yeah, it's quite an awful moment

23:00

all around.

23:01

One thing that occurred to

23:04

me in this episode is that I think I've probably

23:06

thought this before, but I remembered it, is we

23:08

have no sense of who the leadership

23:10

is of both the US and

23:13

Gilead. Like -- Yeah. -- we know the Boston group.

23:15

We don't know whose top dog in DC FDC

23:17

still is indeed, you know, the capital of Gilead.

23:20

But for America, all we ever see is Twelo,

23:22

who is his president? Who is he? know,

23:24

we we have no sense of this. in all the

23:26

communications and all the memorials, it's

23:28

just completely absent. really hoping it's Oprah,

23:30

actually. So

23:32

I

23:35

mean, as we don't find

23:35

out, then that's what's then that's what's in

23:37

my mind.

23:40

Okay. We'll leave it an unknown and we

23:42

can keep pretending it's oprah.

23:44

Yeah. She needs to do another podcast. But,

23:47

I guess, this comes out later with some with two

23:49

of this conversation with June, but it, you know, mentioned about

23:51

prom or not. It does strike me that Jun's never

23:53

done press and there's been no interest in her

23:55

as a as a symbol, but I guess that's what Twilio's

23:57

agitated for her to do. But always thought that's

23:59

kind of That's more Serena's game,

24:02

I guess. Joon's just dealing with drama and trying

24:04

to get mad. She's not interested in the broader. Mhmm.

24:06

James, but I think they're kinda suggesting.

24:08

I won't want some more that next season. Yeah.

24:11

Wait.

24:11

Maybe even next episode. Yeah. There was a lot

24:13

of thinking about the PR game

24:15

and who will play what role for,

24:17

you know, various side aims. But

24:20

in the aftermath of operation

24:22

at Hannah, Lawrence Kohl's.

24:25

Flipphone is getting incoming

24:27

call and it's an apology, but is

24:29

it?

24:30

I'm sorry. You know, III

24:32

really am all this bloodshed. It's

24:35

exactly what I was trying to avoid. But

24:37

that's his kind of way of he he always

24:40

regrets

24:40

past terrible actions.

24:42

think this is what I got wrong like last episode

24:44

was I

24:45

thought she was playing both sides and

24:48

I didn't know about it. But

24:50

but clearly what had happened, which I wasn't

24:52

aware of, was that she had picked a side,

24:55

and Joseph knew about it. and

24:57

he's annoyed because that she had

24:59

backed America. So I thought that she

25:01

was sneakily backing both and

25:03

they kind of didn't know about it, but so

25:05

clearly he actually knew exactly

25:08

what her intentions were that she was not

25:10

gonna go to New Bethlehem and that she instead

25:12

was steady? Well, that's Well,

25:15

to give the intel

25:16

for them to whether to call her to say

25:18

we found her and that so, you know, something

25:20

happened in between

25:21

Right. Okay. because I I thought Lawrence

25:23

only figured out, oh, she decided with the Americans

25:26

once the planes were

25:27

in the air heading for Hannah kind of thing.

25:29

No. He was involved in giving

25:31

the fake information or, you know, the intel.

25:33

Right. because he sent the

25:35

disc shortly. I missed this. Right.

25:37

Okay. is just coming to play my things together.

25:39

I mean, it's you know, this is how. We're We

25:42

can't even write it. Yeah. Like, how do you

25:44

know anyone?

25:45

How did he know? So she even told him

25:48

Yeah. I was I was writing that too because I just thought if the

25:50

mission fails, then then she still has

25:52

a new Bethlehem offer, but she doesn't, you

25:54

know, like, she had burned that bridge and I hadn't

25:57

realized that she had. So so

25:59

that so the conversation

25:59

was eliminating for that reason. But

26:02

then, of course, wow. Like, this conversation,

26:04

it takes a turn. Doesn't it? Like,

26:07

I was actually wondering, curiously,

26:09

like, go your thoughts. I'm like, is this

26:12

considering

26:12

that she had called him a friend, like a few

26:14

episodes ago, which were all annoyed by, is

26:18

I couldn't figure out whether this

26:20

phone call was absolutely destroying

26:22

any relationship they had had after

26:24

she really because it's like the shocking moment for me

26:26

when I think I guessed out loud was

26:29

when she started talking about his wife, and

26:31

she hated you. And was like, oh my

26:33

god. And so I'm kinda

26:35

torn. I'm like, it does that mean

26:37

that that's it now, like, that that relationship

26:40

or friendship or alliance, allegiance,

26:43

whatever the hell that was, is that

26:45

all over now? But then this other part

26:47

of me was like, they finally

26:49

got rid of all the art of us,

26:51

you know, like the fact that June did know

26:53

about how his wife died and that she stood there and

26:56

watched That was always in between them

26:58

because that was something that she had kept hidden.

27:00

And they both got really vulnerable

27:02

together. They were both crying together.

27:05

And and I thought, this is almost the beginning

27:08

of an actual real friendship now

27:10

rather than one that had too many lies

27:12

in it. So, yeah, I'm not sure

27:15

their future. I

27:16

thought it was the end of their

27:18

relationship for now. you know,

27:20

things flip back and forth in the show all the time. But

27:22

for for the moment time being,

27:25

this was them burning their bridges with

27:27

each other. Yeah.

27:28

Nothing's ever over over -- Yeah. -- in in this.

27:30

But yeah. It's certainly a landmark

27:32

moment. Yeah. The truth bombs are

27:34

lot back and forth. What June

27:37

said to Lawrence

27:38

was devastating

27:39

for him, and we haven't really

27:42

had a chance to see what the fallout of

27:44

that will be yet, whether

27:46

he

27:46

will be able to climb back from that.

27:49

And, yeah, the conversation that

27:51

he has

27:51

where he continues

27:53

to dangle new Bethlehem

27:55

and Nick at June

27:58

and then push

27:59

her even more by

27:59

asking her to publicly condemn

28:02

the US -- Mhmm. -- when, you know,

28:05

if

28:05

he had left it at that like,

28:07

left it just before that and

28:09

let her mull over it

28:10

who knows? Maybe she would have come around to the idea,

28:12

but I think as soon as he kind of pushes her that little

28:15

bit more that

28:17

triggers her to to really go, we'll look

28:19

just just let him go. Like,

28:21

I don't need to come to New Bethlehem, and then

28:23

she I think she finally realizes that

28:26

he's only offering her New Bethlehem

28:28

because it works for him. And And

28:30

I think that's when she realizes that

28:32

it's not a a friendship and tells

28:34

him everything she wants to tell him

28:36

about

28:36

Eleanor. So yeah.

28:38

haven't seen how

28:39

he's gonna react to that yet.

28:41

See, I was wondering if it was kind

28:43

of a gift almost all

28:45

the stuff that you said about Eleanor as devastating

28:47

as it was for him to hear because he was crying,

28:50

you know, which we haven't seen before. I

28:52

don't think because maybe

28:54

he had the reason he hadn't remarried was

28:56

because he was still feeling loyalty to

28:59

his wife, whereas I think

29:01

maybe that conversation or June

29:03

just really saying how much that she

29:05

actually Elemer actually despised him

29:08

as in some way

29:10

freed him up to marry again. Mhmm.

29:12

Possibly.

29:12

feel like Eleanor is his

29:14

his kind of moral conscience.

29:17

Well, he might be lacking one and think

29:20

he said to June at the end of

29:22

season three, I think it was that

29:24

he was gonna stay in Gilead

29:27

he didn't wanna escape with the Martha's. He

29:29

was gonna stay in Gilead because he had to

29:31

clean up his own mess, and that's what Eleanor

29:33

would have wanted him to do. So he's it's

29:35

kinda there for Eleanor.

29:37

So Mhmm. -- if this kinda

29:39

devastating realization that

29:41

she really did hate and despise what

29:43

he had become,

29:44

hits in the wrong way, then he might

29:46

he

29:47

might be out of there. Who knows? Yeah.

29:50

I think it

29:51

definitely it's a truth bomb that he wasn't

29:53

expect necessarily for someone to say to

29:55

him, but I think it probably is the impetus

29:57

for then, okay, fine. I'll finish what

29:59

I started

29:59

there with Naomi towards the end there where the hangers on

30:02

the shoulder and the rings on the finger.

30:03

I do think all the references to Eleanor

30:05

and how much she hated life there.

30:07

I do love the way that segues into the

30:10

next storyline with Rose. too.

30:12

Lots it.

30:13

And it's like it's yeah. We

30:15

we maybe get to that in that scene,

30:16

but, yeah, the way that Nick is

30:18

is very much

30:19

in Lawrence's image here. and

30:21

there's a genuine conscience here that the line that

30:23

she uses on him is well,

30:25

he's saying that

30:26

he's trying to fix it from the inside. Mhmm.

30:28

And She says, you

30:30

are born of them.

30:33

It's even worse. because

30:35

I know you know better. Mhmm.

30:37

and he says, I'm

30:38

doing what I can.

30:40

Step by step is what I promised, Eleanor.

30:43

So he's

30:45

whole way of working that we dealt with last week,

30:48

last episode. Yeah. She's calling

30:50

him on her hair, but, you know, Eleanor is that is

30:52

that poor because she did not want

30:55

any of this. And I think it does set up

30:57

that contrast with Nick. I think that like

30:59

Joseph Florence and June are similar in way

31:01

that all my reading is that they're

31:03

both fighters, you know? Like, they're both like,

31:06

I think this episode, I what really came home

31:08

to me actually, which is how much of an activist

31:10

June is like she can't stop

31:13

agitating for a better

31:15

life and experience and outcome for all

31:17

the girls in Gilead. and that will

31:19

never stop, you know, this drive that she has

31:21

to not only get Hannah back, but

31:24

try and and make things better.

31:26

I think Joseph Florence would be kind of similar

31:28

because, like, if you did manage to get out, if you did

31:30

actually take that out and goes to

31:32

Canada, I

31:33

think he would feel useless. He would not

31:35

be able to make the changes that he would want

31:38

to make. I think he's got maybe the same drive

31:40

as June does, which is to make change.

31:42

So I can see why he's staying in

31:45

Gilead and thinking that that would be the place

31:47

to do it. But I did really enjoy

31:49

June saying all of these things

31:50

to him. It really was a great scene this

31:52

episode. And there were heaps of great scenes, you

31:54

know, but that whole conversation was quite a standout

31:57

very much. And also Jun does make

31:59

the line

31:59

Oh, what might be?

32:03

Save and be free.

32:06

Which

32:06

is interesting in the way that the episode ends

32:08

because it's not all that safe. Certainly,

32:10

it doesn't appear to be staying all that free.

32:13

But, yeah, it's showing the the

32:15

bleeding borders.

32:16

and then she takes it all out on the garden. It's

32:19

a rage in Michelle unleashes on that poor

32:22

patch.

32:22

What means like for for me this episode

32:24

was really I feel like June's having

32:27

a rebirthing moment and

32:29

lots of things are coming to an end,

32:32

but it's not over. It's just a

32:34

restart, a reboot.

32:35

And and I think we see that with the

32:37

garden, by the way, in like a really in a really silly

32:39

way, we see it with the garden because all of those seeds

32:42

that she planted, she's now destroying

32:44

them. and I think

32:46

that we'll start to see a rebirth.

32:48

But I'll talk more about that when we get

32:50

to the conversation with Nick. that's

32:53

interesting because I saw the bashing up of the

32:55

garden, the end of hope in this episode.

32:57

because you you know, you plant a garden to

33:00

cultivate stuff that's gonna come in

33:02

the future, for beauty, for all these reasons.

33:04

So a garden is very hopeful in a sense,

33:06

and her going to town on it was symbolic

33:09

of the end of hope of getting Hannah now.

33:11

Mhmm. Yeah. The garden is

33:12

is kinda like her connection with Hannah

33:15

that we've seen over the last few episodes where they've

33:17

both been gardening at the same time. I

33:19

kinda think I read it in similar way, Sana,

33:21

that what we saw of Hana in this episode

33:23

is the closest we're gonna get to Hana for

33:26

a long time if ever. Yeah.

33:28

Yeah. And speaking

33:30

of hope or lack of it or

33:32

disappearing, now we're at the wheelers.

33:34

with Serena getting ready to get

33:37

in the car, his permission from

33:39

mister Ryan Wheeler to go, and

33:41

he's where Alana slants that blow

33:44

twice. Actually, it's a double bassinet.

33:45

How great is that? Like, okay. So

33:47

so this for me is like because

33:50

watching Serena get all of the punishments

33:52

that she had made it out to June, while June was in

33:55

her house. And I thought we'd seen them

33:57

all, you know, like I and

33:59

then I realized,

34:01

Serena, she didn't she never actually

34:03

struck June. She wanted to,

34:05

but June was pregnant. So instead,

34:07

she slapped Rita. And I had

34:09

actually kind of forgotten that until Alana

34:12

did her work. And I was like, oh, this

34:14

was clearly on the list if there

34:17

if there was, like, a long list for your kidding

34:19

tally of all the things that, like Serena

34:21

did that she needs to have back. Well,

34:23

that was, like, still on which makes me think what

34:25

is still on that list, but I I think we

34:27

might now be done. But yes, that

34:30

slap was shocking but also

34:32

little bit enjoyable, I have to say.

34:34

Yeah.

34:36

It's a medley of Serena's greatest hits.

34:40

not intended, probably. So she did

34:42

throw June on the ground -- Yeah. -- in the whole do

34:44

you understand me seem? Yeah.

34:46

But not not the slap. She did hold

34:48

her down while her husband raped her multiple

34:51

times. Obviously, yes. That

34:53

point. Yes. Excellent point. In

34:55

fact, needs to be restarted over and over. And

34:58

this thing also when she says

35:00

to me, you're just a whole. Remind me if I think

35:02

it's the finale of season one

35:04

where

35:04

she throws the dress that June wore that

35:07

Isabelle's back at her in the face. So,

35:09

yeah, this this it's

35:10

all coming back in various ways. When

35:12

she called her a horror, I did wonder In

35:14

what way is Serena a horror? She

35:16

was married when she had this new she got pregnant,

35:18

is a horror any woman that's not currently

35:20

married in your mind? Like, Yeah. What

35:22

makes Serena horrible. Explain.

35:24

I think she's insinuating that

35:26

going to see her husband

35:29

at night. Right. she

35:31

wasn't around is akin to

35:33

adultery. That's how

35:35

I We're trying to explain the thought processes

35:38

of Alana Wheeler. Alana Wheeler here. So

35:41

For whatever reason, she thinks the way she does.

35:43

And yeah.

35:45

Then that poor Nanny, she doesn't

35:46

have a character name, but she's played

35:48

by Dorothy, a adabong. And happily,

35:50

she did not get this slap because

35:52

in Canada, it's not the Martha's who copied,

35:54

but

35:55

yes. She's adopting a rater

35:57

like. energy and

35:58

you see you see Serena sort of clock set a

36:00

little bit later at the opening there

36:02

when she takes responsibility for not

36:04

bringing the bottle. But Yeah. Yeah.

36:06

assume she did actually bring the bottle and she was

36:08

just lying, by the way. Mhmm. I thought she

36:10

purposely didn't bring the bottle for the very reason

36:12

of being able to nurse him. Yeah. I thought

36:14

the same center. I'm

36:15

surprised you didn't check the bag.

36:17

Yeah. I was like, Alenis, if

36:19

you're so tightly wound and so trying to

36:21

control everything, why would you have

36:22

not brought the bag in bottle? Yes.

36:25

good point. And then it's the

36:27

conversation with June Antolillo. After

36:29

the rage, flags behind them. There's

36:31

lot of symbolism in this

36:33

one reflecting on terrible

36:36

intel from terrible allies --

36:38

frenemies across the border. So

36:40

anyway, so yes, they've determined well,

36:43

June's

36:43

saying she's

36:45

done with that son of a bitch, Lawrence. So

36:47

he says, what about Nick Blaine? well, it

36:49

was like she's really gung ho, you know. And I

36:51

think as I said earlier, like that sort of activist

36:54

side of June, you really see it in this episode

36:56

because despite the fact that heart

36:58

got broken when that mission failed. She

37:01

is she doesn't give up. You know?

37:03

What's next? She is putting

37:05

it back on him to go, alright, you know, let's

37:07

just keep going and then he puts it straight back

37:09

on her because what's next is basically

37:11

she has to do something and she's got

37:13

two options. Mhmm. And one of them

37:16

is Nick. Yeah. And just on that

37:18

need

37:18

to keep going, like she does reference the dead

37:21

pilots. And, you know, they did

37:23

all that because of the inter you know, she's that's

37:25

weighing heavily on her as well, but they lost

37:27

their lives for a mission that she initiated to go and

37:29

get Hannah. So, yeah, she kind of evokes their

37:31

memory as a way to will herself forward,

37:33

I think, as well. But yeah, Nick.

37:35

Here's where she finds out. He had the chance

37:38

to come to Canada. Mhmm. And he said,

37:40

thanks for no thanks. That was a bit of a

37:42

surprise for her. This

37:44

whole scene left me a little

37:46

bit confused about Nick because I was like,

37:48

does Nick still actually believe

37:51

in Gilead? Why does he care about

37:53

making it better? We understand Lawrence's motivation

37:55

for doing that, but why doesn't he just

37:57

Hit eject, get out, reject the whole

37:59

thing, wholesale. So there's a huge

38:01

part of him that still, I think,

38:04

believes in the mission without all the horrible

38:06

stuff went down. I don't know. What what did you guys

38:08

make of the apocalypse? Right. Okay. Oh,

38:10

I think he's there because of love.

38:13

Rose, He's in love with Rose. I

38:15

think he's in love with Rose. He's

38:17

that kind of guy. He follows his heart.

38:20

I think that's I think people

38:22

are complex right and I assume that

38:25

both human lawrence is similar and that they're staying

38:27

because they feel so horribly guilty that they actually

38:29

don't deserve happy ending. They don't

38:31

deserve to get out of Gilead. So

38:34

I feel like they can feel better about themselves

38:36

if they actually choose to stay. And so

38:39

That's why when Twelo had offered

38:41

Nick that out, yeah, the impression

38:43

that I got was that he didn't feel that

38:45

he deserved to get everything his heart desired.

38:48

But, yes, I do think that his relationship

38:51

with Rose is not just functional. They

38:53

do actually seem to have the, like,

38:57

The most marriage like marriage, I

38:59

think we've seen so far in Gilead. Mhmm.

39:01

Yeah. They have the candor and the

39:02

dynamic. Yeah. The in like, theicides

39:05

when the that Missus Kelly, who makes

39:07

her bitches remark to her at

39:08

the -- Mhmm. -- the reception. I

39:10

am I'm just gonna say, I I only mentioned

39:13

Nick's name, and you've cut straight ahead to the scene

39:15

with him. But

39:17

let's go on. Also,

39:19

the idea that Nick's

39:20

in love with Rose sets up this really nice

39:22

mirroring of him and June

39:24

because they now both

39:27

have are in love with two different people

39:29

in two different places. and they have

39:31

a child in two different places each

39:33

or a, you know, a child

39:36

on the way. Yep. Which I

39:38

think plays out nicely in the conversation that

39:40

they have in this episode

39:41

as well. Yes.

39:43

We'll skip back a little bit to the toller conversation

39:45

because that sort of sets up the Nick chat

39:47

because it's there that when June does learn that

39:49

he said, no, original. Initially, then

39:51

she's all in on having a meetup with him because

39:54

that doesn't deal with the Nick that she thinks she

39:56

knows

39:56

and she just wants to test him

39:59

off the back of that Lawrence

39:59

conversation where she challenges him

40:02

that you're a part of it. it demonstrates

40:04

very much in the interaction that

40:07

he is. He's all in

40:09

at the moment. He doesn't wanna leave.

40:11

That's one that offer from twelve

40:13

o, the two options, and one of them is to go

40:15

public, and she says that she's not ready for that.

40:17

I thought that was a nice way that she is

40:19

different from Sabrina because that's all Sabrina once.

40:22

Whereas June

40:23

is in an amazing position to

40:25

to sort of take

40:27

a very public role and she

40:29

really has not wanted to do that. So

40:32

yes, for multiple reasons, catching

40:34

up with Nick right now seems really

40:36

attractive. I didn't realize what's gonna

40:37

be in real life, by the way. I thought it was gonna

40:39

be a phone call.

40:40

Yeah. But on that point about

40:42

to a low urging June

40:44

to more, I didn't think of it as

40:46

a publicity

40:47

kind of

40:48

way, like, power, I thought, like, as

40:51

a force because he references me. It was an

40:53

i. He he's a commander now of someone

40:55

like that defecting from Gilead.

40:57

big impact. You

41:00

can make one too. You

41:02

could. You know that. Hector

41:04

Angel's flight after your testimony

41:06

against Waterford, you should step up,

41:09

put

41:09

your party use. And that's

41:11

what she said she doesn't feel comfortable about. didn't think

41:13

it is necessarily like

41:16

I thought more as an as a as an agent, more

41:18

as political kind of a force, which

41:20

would set her a direct conflict with Nick. As in

41:22

maybe twelve o wants to send

41:24

her into new Bethlehem.

41:26

mean,

41:29

go that far with it. But sure, maybe.

41:31

Yeah. More like as a as a symbol,

41:33

like it's

41:33

more of an architect. I don't know. Something

41:36

a bit more than a public.

41:39

Nice. I don't know. I I read more as

41:41

a political power in that. He's urging there.

41:43

Mhmm. I thought that's probably setting

41:45

us up for maybe a story line season six. I don't

41:47

know. I'm looking for I'm

41:48

cutting it straight guys.

41:51

Speaking of public personas. Welcome

41:54

to the Gilead Fertility Center, whatever the

41:56

hell they're gonna call it. the

41:57

polite reception where

42:00

missus Frederick Orthofood is

42:02

parading her baby and encouraging,

42:05

co opting, the hope of women

42:07

who can't have children to try and get

42:10

them on board with Gilead way of life. Because

42:12

if you clean with white billionaire, maybe

42:14

you don't. Maybe then you can get pregnant,

42:16

not at all.

42:16

Yeah. And the fertility center is, like, conspicuously

42:19

devoid of any red. There's no

42:22

inciliation that any of these women will end up

42:24

handmade. It's no way. Although,

42:26

I did think just before that, when

42:28

Alenis SAID SHE WAS GOING TO COME TO

42:31

THE EVENT AS WELL. I THOUGHT, Oh Gosh,

42:33

ALANIS IS GOING TO ROON THIS PUBLIC CITY STUNT

42:35

BECAUSE ALL THE WOMEN THERE JUST GOING TO SEE

42:37

might have a baby, but someone's gonna be there to steal

42:39

it at any point in time. So I thought, Atlantis, you're

42:41

about to bring this whole plan down. But

42:44

Serena, in that scene, kinda

42:47

made me hate her again because I was like, you know

42:49

now viscerally the worst of what Gilead

42:52

can offer. And yet, you're trying to recruit these

42:54

women to enter this project, and

42:56

you've just been called a horror. What do you think all these women

42:58

are about to be called if they head into

43:01

Gilead? Who's to say they're gonna be treated as wives?

43:03

don't know. and just, Serena,

43:05

think of someone else other than yourself. Yeah.

43:07

For someone who's feeling sort of like the the full

43:09

force of not the full force, but, you know,

43:12

getting a good dose of the experience of what it's

43:14

like being a handmade. She switched into

43:17

promotion mode so easily. Didn't

43:19

she? Yeah. It's just like it's just like an

43:21

autopilot. I had this nasty

43:24

feeling that she was exploiting

43:27

that baby and she's been

43:29

so desperate

43:29

to become a mother and to see

43:31

her so quickly, flip into

43:33

this kind of exploitation role

43:36

as a mother was yeah.

43:38

Yep. Totally.

43:40

It's all hashtag as a mother. Like, she was

43:42

very much just ringing that to that

43:44

reception. And even

43:45

the quote, scrubbing all of those horrible

43:47

toxins

43:47

out of the environment and above all,

43:50

the devotion to god, living

43:52

by the highest moral standards. So

43:55

you follow Gilead's path in Toronto,

43:57

then perhaps you too

43:58

be blessed

43:59

with a child of your own.

44:02

Or

44:02

you can keep

44:03

someone in prison in your house and take this Mhmm.

44:06

-- nelvana over

44:07

there. Mhmm. will add. I said

44:09

she virtually knows what it's like to be handmade now.

44:11

The one handmade experience she has not

44:14

had to go through is, you know, ripe. So

44:16

there is one element of and the

44:18

handmade's life that, you know, the worst element

44:20

of it that she's blessfully

44:22

unaware of right now. Well, I was gonna

44:24

say, I reckon she's probably hyper

44:26

aware of it because surely that's just next.

44:28

Mhmm. You know? Like That's

44:30

true. they seem to be – those wheelers

44:32

seem to be enjoying

44:35

all of the power of Gilead despite not

44:37

being in it. So I can only assume that that

44:39

is something that Wheeler will

44:41

exercise somewhere in the near future.

44:44

I kind of hope we never see those

44:46

rip scenes again. know, I feel like in the

44:48

early seasons, we kind of had to to

44:50

understand the horror of Gilead. But we

44:52

kind of all understand it now. I really don't wanna watch

44:54

even, you know, like, no. Yeah. I don't think that we would.

44:56

You know, I would. But provides the impetus for why

44:58

Serena does what she does. Yeah. Right? And

45:00

and and, like, getting up the bravery

45:02

in order to do that because if it fails, then

45:05

she's fucked. You know? Like, that's your it

45:07

wouldn't actually work and she wouldn't be able to be with

45:09

Noah. So it is a very brave thing that

45:11

she does. But of course, I'm thinking, you know, part

45:14

of the reason why she would is because she

45:16

that full handmade experience is coming,

45:18

you know. Like, it's just around the corner

45:20

really. Yeah. All signs point to it. Let's

45:22

at that, Sanna, I am actually so grateful that we haven't

45:24

seen so much of the horror

45:27

that we've seen in the past. I've actually really

45:28

appreciated that this season hasn't been about that.

45:31

Yeah. Well, even to the extent of,

45:33

like, there was a rape and we saw the consequence

45:35

of it, but it surprised us because we all thought it was

45:37

just suggesting that they would be one to come later.

45:39

Like it was revealed in in hindsight

45:42

that that's what actually happened. So -- Yeah. -- which

45:44

is a sign. Right? because because you can just see

45:46

the chocolate scene and that was that was hard

45:48

enough to watch. It wasn't like that was just so

45:50

awkward and so gross and sort of leaves you

45:52

feeling Iky afterwards. It

45:54

did its work, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

45:56

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. That's

45:58

actually kind of brilliant the

45:59

way they yeah. Yeah. So that And

46:02

I did love the

46:03

framing when Serena goes out for

46:05

the quiet breastfeeding out

46:07

the back. Exit side above her head.

46:10

Hello. This way, Leon lights. I

46:12

can wish you the obvious, but I really loved it

46:14

anyway. Yes. Yeah.

46:16

Yeah. She's gonna go for it. The only red

46:18

we saw was was the exit side.

46:20

Yeah. Exit this way. Yeah. Yeah. It's like one, two,

46:22

buddy. and didn't go up the

46:24

street. It was like, up the street. Got the street, but then

46:27

had the close

46:28

encounter with the Jeep, thankfully,

46:30

gets in and bolts

46:32

around the corner.

46:33

I wondered if that driver woman clocked

46:35

who Serena was. If she knew who she was and was

46:38

like, fuck it come in anyways. It's

46:40

sort of I don't know if I saw a little bit of recognition

46:43

or something. Maybe I'm reading

46:44

into that too much. Yeah. Yeah. Why was she

46:46

driving pasta Gilead fertility center. She

46:51

didn't get this special page from the backside, but

46:54

and look, as my as much as I wanted

46:56

Serena to suffer a little bit

46:58

longer, to be honest, really, before she

47:00

got out. I was cheering for her in that moment.

47:03

I was like, yeah. Go.

47:04

you know, stand in front of that car,

47:06

you know, get in, go. Yes,

47:08

Serena. How are you? That's so I'm

47:10

young. because that door was a mom.

47:13

yes, they will be in hot pursuit, no doubt. But

47:16

we've got probably got I'm sure you guys have more

47:18

to say about Nick because the Nick scene

47:20

is the

47:22

location with Nick. Mhmm. More

47:24

to say on this one. The first shot

47:26

of him is upstairs having

47:28

a smoke Bikes that a love nest

47:30

back in the day.

47:31

Very reminiscent of the last year.

47:35

I forgot

47:35

about that, but he was sitting in front of

47:37

a closed

47:37

door. not an open door.

47:39

So as soon as I saw him, I was like, oh,

47:42

crazy. Simple.

47:46

Yes. But he makes the point

47:48

that he can't just pick up and leave,

47:51

but Rose very much wants

47:53

to stay. Her father is a top commander

47:54

there and she's happy there. She

47:56

is no

47:57

ill in all guys.

47:59

No. She doesn't

47:59

mind. Yeah. Yeah. I can't trust a woman

48:02

who any wife who's like, this is

48:04

great. You know? to live in a country

48:06

where we raise it. Like, lots of women. I get

48:08

stronger. business. Right? because I assume she's got a whole family

48:10

there. She's

48:10

complicated. You know? I well, we didn't know anything

48:13

about I don't know, you know, just got parents,

48:15

siblings, how large her family is.

48:18

So it's like a thin big call, especially

48:20

if you're about to have a baby. I get the impression she's lived

48:22

a very privileged and sheltered life.

48:24

Yeah. And -- Yes. -- hasn't really been exposed

48:27

to a lot of the horrors of of Gilead. We don't

48:29

even know if she's been exposed to

48:31

families with handmade to any

48:33

significant level. So,

48:35

yeah, I get the impression she's just very

48:37

sheltered in her experience of the Gilead

48:40

world. Yeah. There's no

48:42

there's no free press. Right? And they also

48:44

are allowed to read. So there

48:46

is, like, it is, like, legitimately we don't

48:48

know, like, how much they actually know. And

48:50

just like the guy that we met

48:52

when Luke and June went into

48:54

that no man's land, he,

48:57

like, he could sense that things

48:59

weren't quite right. Like, he thought that family should

49:01

be together. But at the same time, Gilead's

49:03

all his known well, really all that he

49:05

remembers. And he wasn't that, you know, he

49:07

was happy to stay. So I

49:10

kinda get it. So, like, I kinda I kinda get

49:12

why Rose wouldn't be looking for

49:14

the parachute right now. Yeah. Like,

49:16

I

49:16

wouldn't say she's not aware. I mean,

49:18

well, the fact that she has frank conversations with

49:20

Nick and knows about June and I had

49:22

that to talk to you right next to but I can't

49:24

call that back. Yes. Yes. Yes. Girl definitely

49:26

knows and does exist. There isn't any place to

49:29

know, but she hasn't Yeah. Or Not that she doesn't

49:31

know the exist, but hasn't experienced firsthand

49:34

or,

49:34

you know, obviously, not firsthand, sorry, but

49:36

she hasn't, like, necessarily been in a household

49:38

that has a handmade

49:39

for instance.

49:41

Well, if she was a top commander's daughter, I wonder

49:43

if they had a handmade.

49:44

You know? Surely there would have been a handmade hanging

49:47

around there. because my assumption of of how of how they've

49:49

met was because Nick had all of those contacts in

49:51

their resistance, you know, thinking

49:53

way back in seasons when he would be at

49:55

Jezebels and he would be talking to the women working

49:58

behind the scenes in like the kitchen area

50:00

and stuff like that. He always had contacts.

50:02

And so I had assumed that maybe he had met

50:05

rose that way that she was someone who

50:08

who looks like a Gilead person, but

50:10

was actually a resistor underneath

50:13

So, yes. And now that I'm remembering that that's where

50:15

I that's that's that's in my mind how

50:17

they have come together. God knows if that's true or

50:19

not. Yeah. You're right. Like, I think that

50:21

she She does know there's inner

50:24

workings, horrible workings of

50:25

Gilead. So, yeah, in that case, why is she

50:28

staying? Alright. Okay. I've changed my mind.

50:30

Yeah. Why did she like it? Mhmm.

50:33

See, don't trust me. And there's an there's an interesting

50:35

aspect to her character as well in that

50:38

And one of the wives makes a comment about

50:40

this way. They're talking about her pregnancy around,

50:42

you know, is she concerned that the,

50:44

you know, the child might have some genetic

50:46

issues considering, which --

50:48

Mhmm. -- reminds me of those flashbacks because

50:51

of Gilead where you see people

50:53

with genetic conditions being rounded

50:55

up in cages and -- Mhmm.

50:57

-- you know, making assumptions that

51:00

Gilead has a very kind of fascist stance

51:03

on issues of of

51:05

genetics. which leads

51:08

to the question of, you know, what kind

51:10

of privilege space is Rose living in, where

51:12

that can be overlooked in her case.

51:15

So, yeah, that's an interesting aspect to

51:17

her character and I I think points

51:19

to her her privilege within Gilead.

51:22

Yeah. I would agree. And that's missus Calhoun,

51:25

and that was Calhoun

51:25

last week whose name we couldn't quite remember, but,

51:27

yeah, he's there as well. So that's some Yeah.

51:30

Very shitty comment from her. I thought I'd love to hear

51:32

back to Nick and June that saying, this

51:34

is where he's saying

51:36

Gilead's changing. This

51:38

progress. under Lawrence, we're

51:41

we're

51:41

making it better. And she catches the weight.

51:44

We I have

51:45

to do whatever it takes. It would take my family just

51:47

like you. He

51:48

she very much would

51:50

say back to him what she says to Lawrence about, you

51:52

know, you're one of the minutes even worse because I

51:54

know that you know better. But to be fair,

51:56

I think that she's reeling. She just got her second

51:58

heartbreak. you know, like the moment

52:00

when he said that Rose is pregnant,

52:03

you can always feel that, you know, that was like a

52:05

gut punch, you know. So I I think

52:07

that she was promptly

52:08

properly reeling from that and probably was for

52:11

a while. Yes. That is a gut punch. I think

52:13

you're right. The news that Rose is pregnant.

52:15

But she's also still reeling from the shock that

52:18

he said no to leaving. And all

52:20

the more reason to leave when you are expecting,

52:22

I think, like, in her head, it's like a compounding,

52:24

why are you hanging around?

52:25

So I think this scene is really

52:27

interesting for their dynamic and what it might

52:30

come

52:30

to in the future because he's, you

52:32

know, tell Nicole I love her.

52:34

You know, he's clearly not thinking there's a future where he's

52:36

ever gonna see his daughter to be able tell her himself.

52:39

Mhmm.

52:39

Yeah. I don't know. Nick Blaine,

52:41

what's his story. He's very

52:43

high up rising through the ranks. I think where

52:45

Lawrence were seeing him hiding behind

52:48

always and feeling that guilt. Nick,

52:50

you know, he's starting out clearly,

52:53

you know, he loves June.

52:53

He's, you know, his heart is there, but

52:56

it's also very much in Gilead

52:57

with his wife and child on

52:59

the way. Don't know about

53:01

him. Just how you

53:03

see that as a better option than leaving

53:06

if you can? I I can't wrap my head. I mean,

53:08

I understand some of his reasons,

53:10

but I still just think when you do the math.

53:12

Why the hell would you not hit a check? Get

53:15

out of there, Nick, unless you really believe.

53:17

or somewhat Going back to that conversation at

53:19

the start of the season

53:20

where twilight tries

53:21

to get him to

53:24

help. At the time,

53:27

Nick Sites,

53:28

Mackenzie, and, you know, other conservative

53:32

commanders who have their eye on

53:34

him and have their own warrants as

53:36

one of the reasons that he's not ready to

53:38

help. Doesn't he? So I

53:40

just wonder if maybe

53:41

we're still a little bit unclear

53:44

as to what his true

53:46

feelings or his true position is, but

53:48

he's being kind of pushed

53:50

and pulled by those around him by Rose who wants

53:52

to stay for whatever her reasons are. by

53:55

maybe a fear of other

53:57

commanders who are watching him and watching his

53:59

moves

53:59

along with lawrence's. Mhmm.

54:01

I don't I don't know, guys. Like, I've

54:03

I just don't think that we've seen anything that would

54:05

be enough to make me think that he

54:08

is progilead. make everything I

54:10

think he's proven himself season after season

54:13

after season. I

54:14

wouldn't say he's appropriately. I mean, he's well,

54:16

he's initiating

54:17

air strikes and, like, he's

54:19

very much doing the bidding of Gilead.

54:21

But I think he's like the frog in his

54:23

horse and the water's heading up and all of a sudden

54:25

the water's boiling. You know what I mean? Like, he's he's

54:28

he's certainly there and he's certainly

54:30

active. And to exactly the

54:32

point that June makes to Lawrence, you know, like, it's

54:34

even worse because I know that you know better. And like

54:36

he they're initiating these strikes against

54:39

the American pilots. Like, there is

54:41

collateral damage here. I actually wonder

54:43

if in some ways it's almost the opposite

54:45

in that. I don't imagine he expects

54:47

he's gonna be living longer because people

54:50

who arise and who the ranks in Gilead don't seem to have

54:52

a very long lifespan. So he's

54:54

trying to quickly make it as best for his

54:56

child as he can because he's probably not imagining

54:58

that he'll be there. for most of their childhood.

55:01

It's my it's my grim take on

55:03

because Gilead's a very grim place. That went

55:06

dark. Yeah. do feel we're gonna get

55:08

some character deaths by the end of this season,

55:10

whether it's Lawrence, whether it's Nick,

55:12

whether it's Ian. someone's gonna

55:14

be asked. And overall, this whole conversation

55:17

though is is really sort of finally putting

55:20

it into the relationship isn't it? Like, she can

55:22

finally move on from this. This because Nick's being

55:24

he's being dangled in front of her, and

55:26

he's and they've had those lovely conversations

55:29

on the phone in the past. But this is

55:31

it now. This is now he's got his wife.

55:33

She's got her husband. They both

55:35

say, I love you. They're pretty much like a bye.

55:38

And now, like, now they're kinda done.

55:40

Like, I feel like that relationship is done

55:42

and leading to, as I was saying, like, that

55:44

sort of rebirth of June where she can

55:46

now move on from this. Mhmm.

55:49

There's always been this dynamic that it's the

55:51

love that couldn't be, that they can never be

55:53

together in the right place and free

55:55

to to live their life as

55:57

a And this just felt like an extension

55:59

of that. Maybe it's an end. that

56:02

would be

56:02

nice and neat, but I feel like it's just an extension

56:05

of this ongoing

56:06

acknowledgement that they do

56:08

love each other and will probably always love each

56:11

other, but will never be together.

56:14

I feel like it's setting them up for some direct conflict.

56:16

Interesting.

56:19

That's interesting because she's and set

56:21

up with this conflict with Luke as

56:23

well. Right? Yeah. Over the baby and then

56:25

breaking up the relationship between Serena and the

56:28

baby. And there was a reason for her to

56:30

kinda be horrified by Luke's actions

56:32

as well. So she's is she sort of

56:34

moving towards being alienated in a

56:36

way from both The man she loves

56:38

me. Yeah. I feel like with Lucas more that's relationship

56:40

tension. That's, you know, understandable.

56:43

With with Nick, this is, you know, real

56:46

high stakes political tensions

56:48

that I think are really ratcheting up here. Just like

56:50

on the fundamental level because he's saying,

56:52

you know, he's doing for his family and she's

56:55

absolutely

56:55

doing the same, but she makes the broader point.

56:57

I want what's best for both our families

56:59

and like it's a higher higher aim. I

57:01

just think the whole military symbolism across

57:03

the episode. It's certainly the way it ends. Well, it's in

57:05

the flag. Mhmm. They're bringing the fight.

57:07

because there's clearly a June

57:09

problem, which is putting the pressure on

57:12

Joseph Lawrence. So I can see

57:14

your scenario playing out, Fiona, that

57:17

if June

57:18

does step up to be more of a public

57:20

force,

57:20

whatever that looks like. that

57:23

that would just make life for

57:25

Nick and for Joseph Florence

57:27

difficult because they're trying to make their changes

57:30

and as long as

57:32

June is agitating in Canada that would

57:34

put them at direct odds, I think. So

57:37

I can see that playing out. Well,

57:39

Mackenzie brings it in again doesn't even like he's

57:41

he's threat of -- Mhmm. -- we do need to

57:44

nip that one in the budge. and

57:46

the mention again of more allegiances in this next

57:48

scene with whether or having

57:50

the dinner of China,

57:51

Russia, and North Korea, I think it's great.

57:53

The the young. The

57:56

strikes.

57:56

Yeah. Playing with the big boys. And with

57:59

the big boys now,

57:59

I'm sure Nick Blaine. did anyone

58:02

notice the painting hanging above all the men

58:04

when they were in that room chatting? I said,

58:06

you know, what was it? Well, I think it's

58:08

a little bit dirty because it's so I think

58:11

it's a it's a rose, but the bottom half

58:13

is so shaded that it looks like the opening

58:15

of a vagina. Like, you basically see labor,

58:18

collateral hood, all of it. That's

58:20

all I could see was a giant China hang up. Well,

58:22

there is a Georgia case. I'm going back now

58:24

to look at that. There is a Georgia case in Lawrence's

58:26

house been there before yet. It could be that one, which

58:28

have have another look. And Rose

58:30

is, like, a symbol

58:31

of a vagina, I think. Right? Anyways, but,

58:33

yeah, that's that's stood out to me about

58:35

soon.

58:36

That actually leads me to Naomi

58:38

because I was thinking

58:40

she must have looked around at Lawrence's

58:43

house and seen all of his ecletic furnishings

58:46

and thought, oh my god, I cannot

58:48

live here. Like, that would have been

58:51

her nightmare. She's gonna get in and redecorate. Yeah.

58:53

That man loves patterns. That room was

58:55

drowning and overlapping patterns.

58:57

Yeah. It's very Bohemian and artful.

59:00

They've got the good sitting room, but, yeah, some if

59:02

the fact they're in that room, yeah, with the raunchy paintings

59:05

or with the risque, shall

59:07

we say? you should be agitating

59:09

for them to both move into the Putnam's

59:12

old residence with its beautiful high ceiling,

59:15

very

59:15

much well appointed furnishings. Much more

59:17

minimalist. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

59:20

So here's where Mackenzie congratulates

59:22

Lawrence for his rise.

59:25

Clearly, there's a wedding probably

59:27

coming with Naomi? Haven't seen a Gilead

59:29

wedding halfway. Oh, haven't seen one?

59:31

The the group wedding with Eden.

59:33

That's right. But not like a

59:36

big commander and and a wife

59:38

or a second marriage for both of them. We'll see

59:41

what they do for second marriages.

59:42

When he put his hand on Naomi

59:45

with the the ring on his ring finger.

59:47

From her expression, I didn't understand whether she had

59:49

agreed to it, and she was just seeing the hand being like, oh,

59:51

I guess this decision has been made for me. Shit.

59:53

or whether she was like, should I have made this decision?

59:56

This is my lot in life now. I couldn't understand

59:58

what that look was saying.

59:59

I think either way,

1:00:01

it on.

1:00:01

I seem by her turning up for that dinner

1:00:04

was her agreeing that, like, she had

1:00:06

basically said yes to the proposal. And

1:00:08

so that's why she was there. What I didn't

1:00:10

understand was why Lydia was there. No.

1:00:13

She didn't. She didn't. She didn't. She didn't. She didn't.

1:00:15

She didn't. but this is what will confuse me because a

1:00:17

single woman needs a chaperone. Although

1:00:19

guess maybe a betrotrothed woman needs a chaperone

1:00:22

too.

1:00:22

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

1:00:24

Well, think it's just that she is engaged.

1:00:26

Yes. They're out on the town, such as

1:00:28

it is in Gilead. But his house.

1:00:30

But it does point, I think

1:00:33

Tilly is

1:00:34

rising influence. wink

1:00:36

wink that yes, she's

1:00:38

being seen and she's in circles where she shouldn't

1:00:41

wouldn't normally be as missus

1:00:43

Calhoun

1:00:44

makes comment.

1:00:45

Oh, we're inviting us now. She's

1:00:47

a little cheeky.

1:00:48

That one's maybe little bit bitchy.

1:00:51

Yeah. Hopefully, she gets more lines

1:00:53

next next episode, next season.

1:00:55

Yes. So, anyway, Jo and Naomi,

1:00:57

handsome couple. We'll see what

1:00:58

what comes

1:01:01

with that. But that's where Lawrence says.

1:01:03

I like to

1:01:05

defy

1:01:06

expectations. And

1:01:08

so you have? You're truly

1:01:10

one of us now.

1:01:12

And Nick and

1:01:14

T exchange glasses. Yes, you are.

1:01:17

Doesn't you know it? And

1:01:20

then we're at the vigil, wrapping up this episode

1:01:22

at the Piccote memorial service with

1:01:25

Elijah's widow and his daughter,

1:01:27

Emma, Closing

1:01:28

out all of the symbolism across this episode,

1:01:30

the flag, June Osbourne, herself, taking

1:01:32

the pledge helping Emma with that, pledging

1:01:35

the allegiance They don't get to finish

1:01:37

the last mine, which is the beauty injustice

1:01:39

for all. They got cut short by the

1:01:42

cut shots from all the protesters. blaming

1:01:45

them for the death of the soldiers. You can hear some

1:01:47

make up some of their shouting. They're saying,

1:01:49

their blood is on your hands and they die

1:01:51

because of you and their terrible placards, which

1:01:54

are little bit familiar font.

1:01:56

To this, I assume, what the I guess,

1:01:58

the big question is, who

1:01:59

fired the bullets? Mhmm. because

1:02:02

we had had just left that dinner party

1:02:05

where they were saying that June problem needs

1:02:07

to be solved. Correct. The next thing

1:02:09

you know, she's a

1:02:11

target. So do we

1:02:13

assume that that was approved

1:02:16

by

1:02:17

Joseph?

1:02:17

Or do we think that was Ryan

1:02:20

Wheeler's team going rogue? Or was

1:02:22

it a protester? Yeah. Like, yeah,

1:02:24

it could have been just a

1:02:26

stray bullet don't know. There's a lot of people

1:02:28

that probably could point the finger out. Yeah.

1:02:30

That's what I was left wondering

1:02:31

was whether or not it was an assassination

1:02:34

attempt or just some rogue

1:02:36

bullets. or bullet aimed

1:02:38

at the flag, but not necessarily June.

1:02:41

I I kind of

1:02:43

side with the letter, I think

1:02:44

it was in some of the protesters

1:02:46

maybe. Because of the way

1:02:48

June

1:02:49

clutches Emma and it's the

1:02:51

same way that Serena was holding Noah

1:02:53

when the Jeep nearly hit her like they're both

1:02:55

kind of shielding kids in. It's

1:02:57

kind of mirroring at that moment where like both

1:02:59

were kind of well, certainly with the Jeep,

1:03:01

it was would've been a freight accident. I don't

1:03:03

know. I thought I just thought put them thought, oh, they're marrying

1:03:05

each other. They're both kind of the mothers

1:03:08

protecting children. Mhmm. They're

1:03:10

not? What

1:03:11

do we think? Mhmm.

1:03:12

Yeah. I think the first time I watched it, I was like,

1:03:14

oh, assassination attempt. And then the second

1:03:16

time I was like, oh, yeah. Maybe it's

1:03:18

just the chaos of the moment. because,

1:03:20

you know, she's known but how

1:03:23

known is she among

1:03:25

these Canadian protesters. But,

1:03:27

yeah, I hadn't really thought that maybe it was

1:03:30

something more organized from the Gilead side.

1:03:33

I I thought it was just a a mass shooting

1:03:35

and sort of a nod to,

1:03:37

like, the horrors of contemporary America

1:03:40

almost, like, interjecting with all the crap

1:03:42

that makes Gilead horrible to have this very

1:03:44

contemporary example of

1:03:46

the violence of America really

1:03:49

shook me in a sense because I was like, oh, okay. This

1:03:51

is like an element of really real

1:03:53

life currently -- Yeah. -- that we're all familiar

1:03:55

with. Yeah. And guess that pairs with

1:03:57

the song with ginormones, Americans, the

1:03:59

place

1:03:59

over the top of that. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:02

Yeah. You know, like Gilead is confronting. All

1:04:04

the things we've seen and and talked about are confronting.

1:04:06

But for some reason, the the mass shooting

1:04:08

element of this just really took me because I'm

1:04:10

like, how many tons do we see that headline happen

1:04:12

over and over? In the most

1:04:14

American of symbols possible at

1:04:17

the end of the show. Right? That's right. Yeah. It's

1:04:18

the most depressing way. Yeah.

1:04:21

Absolutely. Alright.

1:04:23

So

1:04:23

that rounds out episode nine. What

1:04:28

did we learn today? And how are we

1:04:30

going in to predict the season

1:04:32

finale? How

1:04:33

are we here already? I don't know. But Alright.

1:04:36

I think that's a quite big question for everyone, is

1:04:39

where is Serena going?

1:04:40

Yeah. I'll find that thing. Is that

1:04:42

woman

1:04:42

gonna take her? Good question. She's running

1:04:44

to Luke in June's place. I

1:04:46

know. I know. She She's a good man. She's

1:04:48

got her application in for new Best Buy him. Yeah.

1:04:51

First, first, last time. I

1:04:53

don't know. Yeah. That was my thought. I was joking,

1:04:55

but now maybe I'm not. Yeah. I guess she would

1:04:57

be protected there. Mhmm. I'm still

1:04:59

not gonna

1:05:00

put it beyond possibility that

1:05:02

June will end up in New Bethlehem as well. because if

1:05:04

that last scene was saying anything, it is that

1:05:06

Canada is not safe.

1:05:08

I'll just say for free as she

1:05:10

said to Joe. And no one else has been

1:05:12

able to get Hannah for her. And you can't

1:05:14

help your child if you're not. with

1:05:16

your child. Mhmm. But can

1:05:19

she ever

1:05:19

get Hannah?

1:05:21

Winkler. I'm gonna chicken out and say,

1:05:23

I I don't know. No.

1:05:26

No. Let's

1:05:28

go on the record with stupid ideas like we

1:05:30

always do. Speaking for myself.

1:05:32

But I

1:05:33

I was really leading towards her becoming

1:05:35

a symbol. Yeah. And think the final

1:05:37

straw is that if she is gonna be the

1:05:39

target of an assassination and she hasn't

1:05:41

even spoken publicly, really, then she

1:05:43

might as well speak publicly. You know, her house

1:05:45

is already getting targeted. Mhmm.

1:05:48

So, yeah, so I think she actually is quite

1:05:50

well

1:05:50

known, especially within the community

1:05:52

of people who care about Gilead and care about

1:05:54

refugees. So why not? You know,

1:05:56

like, she's Benta Bridges with

1:05:58

Lawrence. She's wrapped

1:05:59

up the relationship with Nick.

1:06:02

She didn't get Hana back. So now she's

1:06:04

got to try something else. And this is the

1:06:06

last thing she kinda has at the moment.

1:06:08

So I'm assuming that,

1:06:10

like, maybe next episode, we see her

1:06:13

stepping up to be a June that we haven't

1:06:15

seen before. Yeah. I think that's setting

1:06:17

up for season six for sure. You know, I would

1:06:19

give you that. I'm gonna I'm gonna

1:06:21

go with that one too. I second that. I'm

1:06:24

still in yours. Whereas

1:06:26

with Serena, I just thought, like, God knows

1:06:28

where she's actually heading. And I just thought, what

1:06:30

if This is how I think about Serena, which

1:06:32

is where is the one place?

1:06:33

I do not want her to go because that's probably

1:06:35

where she's where she's gonna go.

1:06:37

And she better lead reader alone. You

1:06:40

know? She turns up and reinstall stuff again.

1:06:42

sol annoyed. It's

1:06:44

a great point. Yeah.

1:06:47

We don't Brenda keeps assuring us how

1:06:49

how, you

1:06:50

know, anyone who'll listen how much she's moved

1:06:52

on. But, yeah, we've had no glimpses of her or Moira.

1:06:54

Yeah. Let's let's have one of those. Mhmm.

1:06:57

And

1:06:57

there was no Janine this episode either. I

1:06:59

felt like we haven't seen her for a while. Oh,

1:07:01

yeah. It's been a few episodes. That's

1:07:03

right. And Esther. Mhmm.

1:07:05

So, yeah, I'd love an update on

1:07:08

what's going on at art headquarters,

1:07:10

art HTS. Well,

1:07:11

Lauren's

1:07:12

and Naomi will need

1:07:14

a handmaid at some point, won't they?

1:07:16

Oh my god. Oh, snap and I get

1:07:18

Janine.

1:07:20

Yeah. What a treehouse?

1:07:22

Maybe maybe we'll get a wedding. Maybe we'll get the wedding

1:07:25

next week. Yes. Yeah. Let's let's

1:07:27

yeah. Rather than a death Wedding

1:07:28

with a little birth we've got it

1:07:30

all this season. We'll take it. Actually,

1:07:33

haven't we? Alright. Well, there

1:07:35

is literally only one way to find

1:07:37

out. Thank you for listening. hope

1:07:39

that helped wear off to go and

1:07:42

eavesdrop on Ryan and Anders' conversation

1:07:44

in the car, on the way home. That's been so awkward,

1:07:46

and I wish I was there. Now

1:07:49

we're just going to wait that lengthy wait

1:07:51

for the fucking finale. It

1:07:54

premieres on SPS on Wednesday

1:07:56

afternoon and screens on

1:07:58

Thursday on SBS.

1:07:59

And I want to thank my cohost,

1:08:02

Santa Kadar,

1:08:03

Natalie Hambly and Haines Island

1:08:04

for an all of this with me.

1:08:07

And thank you for listening. We

1:08:09

cannot wait to hear what you think of this one.

1:08:11

And your series for what the finale is

1:08:13

going to

1:08:13

bring them for one shot. We're

1:08:15

more than happy to hear it. So reach out on Twitter.

1:08:17

You can find me at anything but Phoebe

1:08:19

and use that hashtag is on Gilead. That's how

1:08:21

we

1:08:21

find you. Where can we find you guys on Twitter?

1:08:24

Sana, where are you?

1:08:25

at sana underscore cadar.

1:08:27

Haiti. Where are you on Twitter? at haiti

1:08:30

Ireland. And Natalie, what about

1:08:32

you? Natalie Hambly, and use

1:08:34

that

1:08:34

hashtag. It's going off.

1:08:36

There are some really great tweets coming in who's

1:08:39

got

1:08:39

one that they want to share. I really liked

1:08:41

a tweet from Katherine Pauley,

1:08:43

and she said June and Lawrence keep pointing

1:08:45

out that Serena can't seem to see the irony

1:08:48

of her situation. I just realized

1:08:50

that Serena's captain is named after the very

1:08:52

singer of Isnet ironic Alanas.

1:08:55

which made me think of a

1:08:57

Alana Smart sets, very famous song

1:08:59

because I imagine that Alana Wheeler

1:09:02

now scratching her nails down someone else's

1:09:04

back and hoping

1:09:04

Serena can feel it.

1:09:06

Nice,

1:09:09

well played. I've got a good one actually

1:09:11

from at Kate h american. And

1:09:13

she said, well, I didn't

1:09:14

sit let's say because of this bitch. She said, love the part.

1:09:16

I can wait to listen every week to press this new Twitter.

1:09:18

So it's like Kate. And she set thought on

1:09:20

the garden shape at the end of

1:09:22

episode eight, remember we're reflecting on the interlocking

1:09:25

news there. She said She saw

1:09:27

the shapes and thought of broken chain links,

1:09:29

and that connects back to the song and the lyrics

1:09:32

of the chain

1:09:32

from episode four. Oh my gosh.

1:09:35

Very good. Yeah. Well,

1:09:36

nice and reserved. Yeah. And

1:09:38

last one for me is Danielle

1:09:41

from a greenish some, so clearly

1:09:43

into gardening. I was wondering what

1:09:46

Hannah was planting, and she thinks it

1:09:48

might be lavender, which she says represents purity,

1:09:50

silence, devotion, serenity, grace,

1:09:53

and calmness.