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0:05

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most efficient and cost-effective solution to every job

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or business. jksecurity.com jksecurity.com

0:36

Every Formula One driver is racing

0:38

for their future. At the end of the 2024

0:41

season, with so much competition for

0:44

seats, some supremely talented drivers will

0:46

drop out of the sport. It's

0:49

happened many times before. Just ask

0:51

Stoffel van Dorn. I wasn't

0:53

myself. I wasn't feeling loved within the

0:55

team. I struggled to motivate myself to

0:57

even go to the race, let's say. Your

1:00

whole life, your whole career, you're

1:02

working towards that one goal of getting

1:04

to Formula One, and then suddenly

1:07

you're in Formula One, and it's not going

1:09

the way that you've kind of imagined it

1:11

going. That's quite tough to

1:13

take. At McLaren,

1:16

Stoffel was in the right team at

1:18

the wrong time. 2017

1:20

and 2018 was one of their worst periods.

1:23

He was replaced by Lando Norris in

1:25

2019, leaving him with no seat and

1:28

one regret. I wish I

1:30

enjoyed my time a little bit more,

1:32

because your brain is so taken over

1:35

by the whole Formula One world, the

1:37

engineering side of things, the media, everything

1:40

that comes with it that you actually

1:42

can't properly enjoy almost. Welcome

1:49

to F1 Beyond the Grid with

1:51

me, Tom Clarkson. Stoffel van

1:53

Dorn didn't race a single-seater until he

1:55

was 18, but

1:58

that late start didn't stop him winning. Formula

2:00

Renault titles in his first three

2:02

years or the Gb to Championship

2:04

in twenty fifth things. But the

2:06

champion of what's now called Formula

2:08

To didn't graduate through an F

2:10

One race Immediately, he signed with

2:12

Mclaren as I test and reserve

2:14

driver. Then, when Samantha Alonzo was

2:16

ruled out of a race. Early

2:18

and Twenty sixteen, Stoffel was dramatically

2:21

thrown in for his Formula One

2:23

debut. The out qualified he makes

2:25

sense and Besson unfinished in the

2:28

points leading said then Mclaren. Boss

2:30

Ron Dennis signing him up for the

2:32

following year for this was a turbulent

2:34

time at my current. In his first

2:36

season the same finish second, lost. In

2:38

the constructor standings. so the second

2:41

time in three years, there change

2:43

are plenty, with Zach Brown coming

2:45

in as Ceo amid a organizational

2:47

restructure off the forty old grumpy

2:49

with a best finish of seven,

2:51

Fund On was let go at

2:53

the. End. Of twenty eighty, a Formula

2:56

E World champion with podiums in

2:58

the world. Endurance Championship stuff still

3:00

got speed Now he's a reserve

3:02

driver for Aston Martin and he's

3:04

reunited with former Mclaren teammates or

3:07

lungs and put his time racing

3:09

in Formula One has left an

3:11

impression in this test. Awful candidly

3:13

reflects on the impact those struggles

3:16

had on his mentality and his

3:18

motivation levels. He talks about the

3:20

things he do differently and much

3:22

much more. I you enjoy a

3:24

conversation. Stuff.

3:30

It is great to have you on the so how

3:32

are you? I'm very well son. Thanks for having me

3:34

on the show. Now. Let's start by

3:36

talking shop. Let's talk Aston Martin Festival.

3:39

What's the mood in the camp in

3:41

Twenty Twenty four? Outside of Buddhism

3:43

is good of the see last season

3:45

and twenty twenty three do with was

3:48

I'm a pretty good year for us

3:50

for the team. Huge progress made. Achieving

3:53

quite a lot of podiums during that year,

3:55

which was maybe a little bit unexpected. Fernando.

3:58

joining the team as well So it

4:01

was obviously kind of the

4:03

start of a new project, let's say, and it

4:05

paid off very well with a lot of new

4:07

people joining the team. So I

4:09

would say 2024 is

4:11

kind of a continuation of where

4:14

we finished in 2023, trying

4:16

to really build up on

4:18

that foundation and hopefully

4:21

fight for more podiums and try and get a

4:23

first win. And although this

4:26

year we've seen in the first couple of races

4:28

that the grid is very compact and

4:31

one or two tenths can just make a huge

4:33

difference. Your test and reserve

4:35

driver for the team. So you're spending a lot

4:37

of time in the sim. So

4:39

two questions. First of all, what is this car

4:41

like to drive on the sim? And

4:44

can you tell us a little bit

4:46

about your technology campus back in Silverstone

4:48

and what is the sim like

4:50

to drive? Yeah, the sim is obviously a

4:53

very important part of development these days

4:55

because testing is just becoming so, so

4:57

limited and doesn't really give the teams

4:59

a lot of track time. But

5:03

the car does feel, it obviously

5:05

feels better than last year. Everything

5:08

about it, there's more downforce, it's better on the brakes,

5:10

better in the corners. But so is

5:12

everyone else. Everyone else is improving as well.

5:14

And it's kind of this continuous

5:16

development that you need to keep a track of.

5:19

And I feel the car that we have this

5:21

year, what is a little bit

5:23

different compared to last season is the platform

5:26

or the base car gives us

5:28

much more flexibility, I think, to develop it

5:30

through the season. So hopefully, you know, over

5:32

the course of the season, we'll kind of

5:34

bring some updates to the car and we'll

5:37

be, yeah, we'll be able to see maybe

5:39

bigger steps than what we've seen last year, where

5:42

we brought a couple of updates and they didn't

5:44

really work. So

5:46

hopefully this year, that's going to be kind of the game

5:48

changer, let's say, where we bring updates to the car and

5:50

we can clearly see a step in performance. Back

5:53

at base, a lot of things have

5:55

changed with the new campus buildings going

5:57

up. It's really something that

5:59

the team needed. Amos

6:01

has grown how much over the last couple

6:04

of years in always thought it would about

6:06

three hundred people were no now more than

6:08

more than seven hundred people. So we've outgrown

6:11

the building a little bit. But the of

6:13

with the new campus. it's really puts everyone

6:15

under the same roof. Everyone is much closer

6:17

together within their own departments. It enables everyone

6:20

to have. Kind. Of a normal.

6:22

Discussion. To talk to each other, to

6:24

be closer to each other and and I think in

6:26

the long term it will be a huge benefit for

6:28

a team. How important is that? The talking

6:31

aspect because I think a lot of people

6:33

watching this listening to this will thing will.

6:35

Formula One is a technology sport. Or.

6:37

Do we need to tell? I think it's

6:40

it's it's very important Them I mean obviously

6:42

a lot of things and former one they

6:44

get to decide it's true data and through

6:46

computers and and stuff like that bus. With

6:48

all these regulations in in formula one thing,

6:51

there is still this kind of. Key.

6:53

Element where. You want the

6:55

brains to just. Talk. Over a

6:57

coffee and and sit together. Not necessarily

7:00

talking about motor sport and and but

7:02

that's how I d's get. Thrown.

7:04

Up, Plan and com up and and I

7:06

think that's very important than them in any

7:08

business is the coffee machine called Embassy. The

7:11

Iss Yoda works. You know when that happened

7:13

you feel in a much more relaxed environment.

7:15

You bring things up and then suddenly you

7:17

have. Something. clicking in in your

7:20

head that know my be beneficial for the

7:22

car as well so I think those moments

7:24

arm are very important for it's him and

7:26

in your own role for the team. You

7:29

did drive the twenty three car at Spa

7:31

Franco show last summer. I think it was

7:33

wet unfortunately I wasn't there but how important

7:35

was if you to get behind the wheel

7:38

just in terms of the sea but you're

7:40

giving Fernando in loans for myself very important

7:42

but equally for the team because I do

7:44

spend a lot of time in the simulator

7:46

in or had the tests and. In

7:48

August and now of course I was a

7:51

little bit unlucky with this. Would do better

7:53

to drive the car and a wet but

7:55

all those first. Braces, Of the

7:57

year out that I was attending. I'm

7:59

listening to. Land and Fernandez comments, but

8:01

I have nothing to really. Compare.

8:04

That to because I haven't driven the

8:06

car myself so to get those lapse

8:08

in Inspire was just very valuable to

8:11

then go back to to simulate rents

8:13

kind of correlate the real car. With.

8:15

The virtual worlds testing is is

8:18

so limited disease which am is

8:20

unfortunate for tests and reserve drivers

8:22

because we don't have a lot

8:24

of opportunities to to drive the

8:26

carpets every little. Lap.

8:28

Or mileage as you get a no scars. Their

8:30

dinner for a very valuable to us but also

8:33

for a team because it enables us to. Yeah.

8:35

To correlate hugs much better. Thought you remember

8:37

twenty years ago when know we had Friday

8:40

test drivers in Formula One an Sp One

8:42

became this massive competition between the likes

8:44

of I'll Experts and Anthony Davidson and Allan

8:46

Mcnish. When you eat a bag know

8:48

he has his the zebra like nothing. but

8:50

when you are in that Twenty three

8:53

com at spa how difficult was it? A

8:55

few to find the limit because it

8:57

had been a few years since he last

8:59

driven in Africa. Yet it it had

9:01

been a few years but them have still

9:03

been active next to my former. One

9:05

tests and reserve I've are also

9:07

sell Resin Firmly Racing and Them

9:10

and Earns Racing and. A

9:12

thing that helps me a lot to stay

9:14

sharp and to still drive racing cars to

9:16

kind of have that feeling for it's but

9:18

a former one. cars different. it's it's You

9:20

know to most powerful cars is this the

9:22

cars that have the most. Down. For

9:24

the most grip so it it takes a

9:26

little bit of time and of beginning to

9:29

get use it at but is still a

9:31

racing car. Got a steering wheel, the four

9:33

tires on it's and ultimately. That. Feeling

9:35

came back pretty quickly although it was

9:37

was wet Men, you know you need

9:39

to take a little bit of margin

9:42

in the beginning. Yeah, I saw that

9:44

home pretty pretty quickly. And how has

9:46

the Power Unix for example? Come on

9:48

since Twenty eighty? To be fair, that

9:50

felt very similar. it's not something

9:52

that i was shocked about at change the most

9:54

of think it's more what change with the car

9:57

since when the eighteen is the weight of the

9:59

car so feel in like lower

10:01

speed corners, they're a little bit heavy.

10:03

They're a bit more cumbersome. How does

10:05

that actually translate through to

10:07

you, the driver, the extra weight? You

10:09

just feel the car is

10:12

a little bit more lazy in those low

10:14

speed corners, because that's where you feel the

10:16

weight the most. I would

10:18

say in high speed corners, they're pretty similar. There

10:20

are tons of downforce on these cars. They go

10:22

super fast in high speed corners. And that's probably

10:25

still the most impressive thing about this

10:27

generation of cars is how fast they

10:29

can go through high speed corners. But

10:32

low speed is kind

10:34

of where the weight has a big impact. So

10:37

were you flat through Oruges in

10:39

the wet? On

10:42

intermediate tires at some point,

10:44

yes. Yeah, I

10:46

mean, the track conditions were varying so

10:48

much through today. So at some points you

10:50

could and some points you couldn't. But yeah,

10:53

I was. And how different are these

10:55

ground effect cars to drive compared

10:58

to the ones that you drove from 2016 to 2018? I

11:01

would say 17, 18 were very fast

11:04

cars also in terms of actual feeling.

11:08

They were not too dissimilar. I

11:12

think the overall like the lap times that we're

11:14

doing a lap is actually pretty close. If

11:17

anything, maybe this generation of cars is maybe

11:19

even a touch slower than what

11:21

the cars were were back then. One

11:24

thing I noticed was the the purposing a

11:26

little bit more and we've heard a lot

11:28

of drivers complaining about that, obviously, over the

11:31

last two years with the ground

11:33

effect cars. And that's something you could feel a

11:35

little bit more. You're being shaken a little

11:38

bit more in the car than we may be used to

11:40

in 2017 or 18. And

11:43

were you having to keep off some of the curbs

11:45

that you might have used back in the day? Just

11:47

in the way that we run the cars now with

11:49

them being very low? Not necessarily.

11:51

And I think it's probably

11:53

quite track specific as well. Spies

11:56

is one of those old school tracks where you can't

11:59

really... abuse the track limits too much anyway.

12:01

It's one of those old school ones if you go

12:04

off, you're off. So you

12:06

kind of had to stay within the limits.

12:10

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12:12

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12:14

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12:16

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12:20

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12:22

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15:11

let's talk about your Formula One

15:13

career stuff. There are many

15:15

people in this Formula One pad, myself included,

15:18

who think you should still be racing

15:20

in Formula One, not test and reserve

15:23

driver. I think it was a case of right

15:26

place wrong time at McLaren for

15:28

you. Do you agree with that? I'd

15:30

probably say so. Looking back at

15:32

it, obviously it was the two most

15:34

difficult years in the history of

15:37

McLaren. A lot of technical

15:40

failures, a car that wasn't

15:42

very competitive at all and

15:45

a lot of change within the team as well

15:47

on the management side, let's say. So there was

15:49

a lot of

15:51

turnover and very

15:54

tricky conditions to be able to perform

15:57

at the highest level. But

15:59

when you get... an opportunity to race for a

16:01

Formula One team, you can't

16:03

ask yourself, is it the right time? Is

16:05

it the right moment to join that team?

16:08

And at the time, I felt like it

16:10

was the perfect timing because McLaren and Honda

16:13

had been working together for a

16:15

couple of years. Yes, they struggled for the

16:18

first couple of years, but you

16:20

could maybe feel, well, we're on

16:22

the right track, we're getting

16:24

there. I might be actually joining at the time

16:26

where the team is performing well. And

16:28

unfortunately, it didn't turn out to be

16:31

that way. You had the double whammy

16:33

as well of an uncompetitive car, but

16:35

also Fernando Alonso in the

16:37

sister car. Fernando having this amazing

16:39

knack of being able to drag a lap

16:42

time out of a difficult car. Did

16:44

you feel very alone in

16:46

those two years? Alone, it's

16:48

maybe not the right word. What

16:51

I was struggling a little bit with in the beginning

16:53

was I had been through

16:55

the junior career and the junior

16:57

series and managed to always fight

16:59

for victories and fight for championships

17:01

in those years to then suddenly

17:04

arrive in Formula One where you're

17:06

not fighting for anything almost and

17:08

where you know going into the

17:10

weekend that maybe the maximum result

17:12

possible is 13th to 14th.

17:15

And that was a little bit difficult to get

17:18

in the right mindset to still deliver 100%

17:22

and to push 100% for those results. That's

17:25

a complete different motivation than when

17:28

you're fighting for a victory or for

17:30

a championship than to go to

17:33

a race weekend knowing that 12th or 13th is

17:35

maybe the maximum you can do. So

17:37

I think in the beginning I was trying to

17:39

figure that out how to motivate

17:41

myself in the right way to still

17:43

deliver 100%. With

17:46

the experience that you have now, what

17:49

would you do differently? I would

17:51

enjoy my time a lot more.

17:54

So you didn't enjoy? Because of what

17:56

you've just said about the lack of competitiveness or...

18:00

I didn't enjoy the way that I would enjoy it now.

18:02

And I would definitely enjoy much more

18:05

being in Formula One right now. I would be

18:08

a more complete driver as well because I've got

18:10

a little bit more experience since

18:12

then as well. I've raced now in

18:15

Formula E, I've raced in endurance racing,

18:18

and I think I'm much

18:20

more decisive in terms of what I want

18:23

and what I don't want. Like I just

18:25

know much better to make my mind up

18:28

than I did back then. I

18:30

remember there were a lot of reliability

18:33

issues, particularly in 2017. But

18:36

also, I do remember you

18:38

saying that the rear end of those cars,

18:40

particularly was it the 18 car,

18:42

was very loose. With

18:45

the experience you've just talked about, would you

18:47

set up the car differently now? I

18:49

would probably just accept it more.

18:51

I think at the time I was trying

18:54

to find solutions

18:56

to something that couldn't

18:58

be solved. And I think right now I

19:01

would probably accept that more and

19:03

just deal with certain things

19:05

a little bit better than I dealt with

19:07

back in the day. You know, you've just

19:10

been talking about your success in the Vunier

19:12

formulas. I mean, like GP2 was immense

19:14

what you achieved in 2015 in particular.

19:17

And it strikes me that you were

19:21

an incredibly instinctive driver. One of those

19:23

people that can just get in anything

19:25

and be quick immediately. Is that how

19:28

it feels? If you walked

19:30

into a competitive McLaren, I absolutely

19:32

believe that you would have been

19:35

as quick as Fernando Orland. Certainly over one

19:37

lap. Yeah, I believe so. And I think

19:39

it's still one of my strengths, I would

19:41

say, is that whatever car I kind of

19:43

jump into, I usually don't need a lot

19:45

of time to get used to them and

19:47

to be competitive. Then, okay, there's a whole

19:50

thing about being at the 100% with them.

19:53

But I think I can get to 99% very quickly. And

19:56

then, you know, that last little percentage to get

19:58

is always a little bit. more

20:01

complicated like it is with anything. But I

20:03

do believe if the car back then would have been a

20:06

bit more competitive and you suddenly

20:08

start fighting for top fives and

20:10

maybe a podium every now and

20:12

then, I think the perception of

20:14

everyone just changes so much. And

20:19

well done, double fanzorn, claiming

20:21

McLaren's first point to the

20:23

season, claiming his first point in

20:25

Formula 1 on the weekend

20:27

that he's deputized for Fernando

20:29

Alondro. When

20:54

did you get it? It was race 2. When

20:57

did you know that you were going to be driving that car? So

21:00

it was 2016 and I was doing

21:02

kind of a year in

21:04

Japan racing in Super Formula. So

21:07

at that time when I got the

21:09

call I was testing in Okayama, so

21:11

somewhere in the middle of nowhere in

21:13

Japan. I remember very well

21:15

it was Eric Boulier who was

21:18

calling me. I think it was on Thursday.

21:21

Yeah, it was on Thursday because that's

21:23

when Fernando had his medical checkups with the

21:26

doctors in Bahrain and they didn't clear

21:28

him. So Eric called me

21:30

and said, look, we've booked you a

21:32

plane to Bahrain, you're having

21:34

to drive this weekend. Fernando didn't get

21:36

cleared. I didn't really have much time to

21:39

process it. I left the test in Super

21:41

Formula. I remember my dad was there as

21:43

well because he came to visit. So

21:46

I left him behind, jumped on a plane to

21:48

Bahrain with a lot of

21:50

emails, a lot of technical emails with the

21:52

steering wheel, the dash and stuff that I

21:54

had to try and get up to speed

21:57

with before getting there. So it

21:59

was an overnight flight. landed on Friday morning. I

22:01

think practice one was like around

22:04

one or two p.m. or something. So landed,

22:06

took a shower, went to the truck and yeah, a

22:08

couple of hours later I was in the

22:10

car. Had you tested that car? I

22:13

didn't. No. The first left were F21

22:16

in Bahrain. What were your first impressions of

22:18

the car? It, because

22:20

I had literally just driven a super formula car

22:22

before. I had to calm

22:25

myself down because the

22:27

cars in 2016 were, they

22:29

weren't actually that fast. They were quite slow.

22:31

I mean, they were fast on the straight,

22:33

but the cornering speeds were, they were slower

22:35

than the super formula car that I was

22:37

driving. In the beginning I just remember I

22:39

was locking up. I was running wide in

22:42

a few corners for the first couple of

22:44

laps because I just had

22:46

less potential than I had with the super formula

22:48

car. So actually those first

22:50

couple of laps were more about

22:52

myself calming down and drive

22:54

it back to its own limits.

22:57

And how much F1 experience had you had

22:59

at that point? F1 experience,

23:01

I maybe had one

23:03

or two test days prior to that with

23:05

my car. So you were raw? Raw.

23:09

Yeah, pretty. And what about the

23:11

steering wheel? How complicated was that? It

23:14

wasn't too complicated because I was used to

23:16

drive the simulator and stuff. So I kind

23:19

of had done my preparation and

23:21

my homework. So I kind of

23:23

felt pretty natural from the moment I jumped in. Qualifying

23:26

comes around. What

23:28

were your expectations? Did you actually think

23:30

you could out qualify Jenson Button? I

23:33

had no expectation. I knew after the

23:35

practice sessions that I was kind of

23:38

close and that I

23:41

needed to put everything together to

23:43

be able to do that. When

23:45

Q1 started, it was a lot of

23:47

pressure. You have all the

23:50

people watching you. You have one

23:52

lap on the tires. So there

23:54

was a lot of pressure involved in that. But I

23:57

managed to put in a good

23:59

lap and to do slightly better than

24:01

Jensen. So it's probably what kind

24:03

of gave me the opportunity

24:05

or gave me my contract, let's say, for

24:08

the next season to do that well in

24:10

qualifying. You think it was that lap? Maybe

24:12

not qualifying, but also what happened on the

24:14

Sunday in the race. Well, talk us through

24:16

the race. It was another phenomenal day for

24:18

you. It was a very good race. I

24:20

think we started twelfth or something. McLaren

24:22

hadn't scored any points up until

24:24

then during the season. I

24:28

remember Fernando was there, obviously, so he was

24:30

helping me before the race to give

24:32

his feedback on strategy,

24:34

what we should do, and when to

24:36

put the new tires, how many pit

24:38

stops we should do, to be

24:40

honest. I was so new that

24:43

I listened a little bit to what

24:45

the team had to say, to what Fernando had to

24:47

say. It was just nice to go

24:50

into the race with, OK, this is the plan we're

24:52

doing. Let's stay in the race

24:54

because it's going to come towards me at the

24:56

end. And that's what happened. I think

24:58

we did one more pit stop than a lot

25:00

of the other people, but it meant I had fresh tires in

25:02

the end. Yeah, I could attack

25:04

and drive back through the field. And

25:06

I think we just managed to score

25:09

one point in the end, which

25:12

for the team was very valuable

25:14

at the time, and for

25:16

myself as well in the first race. What

25:18

did Fernando say to you afterwards? What did

25:20

Eric Bouillier say? What did Jensen say? Everyone

25:22

was obviously very happy for the first

25:24

race to come in like that. And I

25:26

wasn't lost, let's say.

25:28

So I felt like I could race with everyone

25:30

without a problem. I had some

25:33

good overtaking moves. I think that

25:35

was comforting for myself as well, to feel

25:37

like, OK, I'm not lost in here. I

25:39

fit in all right. And I managed to

25:41

score a point. So obviously, everyone was super

25:43

happy about that. Ron was there. So

25:45

yeah, I think probably the only

25:48

person that wasn't too happy about it

25:50

was Jensen, actually, which he unfortunately retired

25:52

that race. But I think he was

25:54

probably the only one that wasn't too

25:56

happy about it. It's really interesting that

25:58

you mentioned Ron, because. He was

26:00

a supporter of yours and do you think

26:03

it could have been different had Ron stayed

26:06

at the team? That's always difficult to

26:08

say in hindsight. I think probably some

26:10

things would have been different

26:13

still at McLaren. Eric was

26:15

there, then Zach came in.

26:17

I think

26:19

actually Jost Capito was there

26:21

for the shortest amount of time. Yeah,

26:23

there was a lot of things

26:26

actually happening in the background

26:28

with the top management

26:31

level, also on the

26:33

shareholders level. So yeah, it

26:35

wasn't the most stable conditions,

26:37

let's say, and a lot of change felt

26:40

like needed to happen for the team to actually

26:42

get back on track. You said

26:44

that that Bahrain weekend probably earned

26:47

you your contract for the

26:49

following year. When did you actually sign for

26:51

2017? I remember very

26:53

well. I signed in Monza

26:56

that year. I was quite late. Yeah, that

26:58

was September. It was around

27:00

September, I think Monza. I

27:02

had obviously between the

27:05

Bahrain race and the moment I signed,

27:07

I had my regular discussions with Ron

27:09

and seemed like things were

27:11

going in the right direction, but

27:15

it wasn't signed yet. So there's still a little bit of

27:17

doubt like, is it going to happen? Is it not going

27:19

to happen? And then suddenly, I think it

27:21

was a Thursday in Monza, Ron called

27:23

me, then he said, look, it's got to happen. It's

27:25

got to happen now. And

27:27

I was like, okay, well, I'm

27:30

in Monza. I'm here. Well, it's like, get your

27:32

lawyers on the phone. We'll handle it now within

27:34

the next two hours. Like, okay, called my lawyer.

27:36

I was sat in the back of

27:39

a truck with, you know, where the mechanics

27:41

usually get all their stuff. And

27:43

I was there on the phone for

27:45

like three hours with the lawyers, with

27:47

Ron, trying to negotiate things. He

27:50

wanted it to be done before he arrived in

27:52

the paddock in, in Monza. And that's what

27:54

we did. Was it ever explained

27:56

to you why it had to happen so quickly?

27:58

No. But that

28:01

was Ron's way of dealing with things sometimes

28:03

like yeah I didn't ask myself too many

28:05

questions like why does it need to happen

28:07

so quickly and like I'm not prepared for

28:09

this I was like, okay. Well, this

28:12

is my opportunity. Let's just you

28:14

know deal with it and we'll make it happen Do

28:17

you think in hindsight that brilliant

28:19

performance in Bahrain placed unrealistic? Expectations

28:21

on your shoulders and also perhaps

28:23

for you yourself. Did you then

28:25

think hang on look what I

28:27

did in race one Why

28:30

can't I do that in in race one of 2017? Maybe

28:33

it did maybe it didn't I think it's

28:36

more the expectations

28:38

that were on McLaren

28:41

as well because McLaren is one of those

28:43

teams that you expect McLaren to win you

28:45

expect McLaren to be in the front You

28:47

know with Fernando being there as well Obviously, I

28:49

had a you know, one of the most difficult

28:52

benchmarks probably as a teammate I

28:54

wasn't actually that far if you look at

28:56

the statistics and and what the gap

28:58

was between myself and Fernando It's just that

29:01

sometimes we were just you know 14 15 16 I

29:05

think people were maybe expecting us to be you know

29:08

first and second or or second and third or

29:10

fourth and fifth Let's say a little bit higher

29:12

of the grid But that's unfortunately only what the

29:14

car was capable of back in the day And

29:16

were you wary going into the first race because

29:19

it hadn't been a great winter. Let's face it

29:21

I remember lots of reliability issues. I think you

29:23

had a maximum 200

29:25

laps maybe in the entire winter. I think

29:27

way less way less because of all the

29:29

trouble. I think so Yeah, did you feel?

29:32

Undercooked going into the first race.

29:34

Well, definitely I didn't feel as

29:36

well prepared as a as I wanted

29:38

it to be But yeah, same

29:41

for Fernando as well. Of course, he had a lot

29:43

of seasons of experience in Formula one but yeah,

29:45

I just remember being in Barcelona and and Not

29:48

doing a lot of laps there was always you know you

29:51

go out the car was having having an issue we

29:53

spent a lot of time in the garage and Yeah,

29:56

we didn't have the best of

29:58

winters to prepare for for

30:00

the first race and definitely I felt a little

30:02

bit rusty going into into

30:04

Melbourne let's say where it's

30:06

a new track haven't driven it was also

30:09

the new regulations of cars So they were

30:11

quite different than than the previous ones Let's

30:14

fast forward to Monaco because you make it through

30:16

the q3 for the first time there

30:19

What happened at that race to give you that

30:22

extra pace was it of a confidence thing

30:24

for you? Was there something new on the car?

30:26

Frankly? I don't remember exactly, you know what changed

30:28

there I remember there was there was kind of

30:30

this this turning point a little bit which

30:33

was probably around around Monaco where I think Things

30:35

just clicked a little bit more. I think there

30:37

was maybe small upgrade on the car

30:40

that You know helped to

30:42

get a bit more confidence with the car with the

30:44

way I wanted to to behave and And

30:46

then we had a very actually quite a strong

30:49

Second second half of the

30:51

season, especially the Asian races we we

30:54

performed quite well What people

30:56

forget I was still a rookie at that time

30:58

as well, you know so the first couple of

31:00

races are always you're learning you're Learning

31:03

the ropes of Formula one you're learning to

31:05

deal with the team to deal with the

31:07

media to deal with your car setup And

31:10

and all these things so I was still

31:12

figuring that out a little bit in the first

31:14

couple of races and then Got much more comfortable

31:16

towards the end of that year And what did

31:18

you feel about the switch from Honda to Renault

31:20

over that coming winter? You said a little bit

31:22

earlier that you know You thought it was a

31:24

good time to be coming to McLaren because they've

31:26

been working with Honda and and did

31:28

you feel that they were? Making progress or were

31:31

you in the camp that said we need to

31:33

change if we're gonna finish higher up

31:36

Whether it was the right thing to do now. I'm

31:38

you know looking back at it I don't think it

31:40

was probably the right thing to do Well,

31:43

look at where Honda are now with Red Bull. It

31:45

would exactly history would suggest it wasn't the right thing

31:47

to do Yeah Probably a lot of people would say

31:49

it wasn't the right thing to do because

31:52

then also once we got the Renault

31:54

engine it actually It

31:57

didn't have more power. It was just

31:59

a little bit more reliable than the

32:01

Honda back then, but it

32:03

didn't really give us much more performance.

32:06

It also meant that changing from

32:08

Honda to Renault during that winter, the

32:11

team couldn't focus on really

32:13

improving the chassis side of things, because

32:15

just changing the power unit took

32:17

so much resources away to

32:20

just fit in the Renault engine that

32:22

on the car itself we didn't really make

32:25

any step forward. You scored only four fewer

32:27

points than Fernando in 2017. So as you

32:29

went away on

32:32

your holidays at the end of the year, were

32:35

you satisfied with how things have gone in year

32:37

one? I mean you're never fully satisfied, like there's

32:39

always things you want to do better. Is

32:42

that the nature of being a racing driver?

32:44

I think that's the nature, yeah, of anyone.

32:46

Like with C-Max on the radio, you know,

32:49

he loves complaining when things don't go

32:51

right, even though he's winning by 20

32:53

seconds. So I think that's just the nature

32:55

of an athlete, I would say in general,

32:57

that you always look to improve. But I

33:00

think, yeah, having had a good second

33:02

half of the season, then I felt

33:04

more comfortable, let's say,

33:06

going into a new season where you've had

33:08

time to look back at the previous year,

33:11

you've had a bit of time together with

33:13

your engineers to switch off, to not think

33:15

about racing, to then come back in a

33:17

much better position. And did you

33:19

get distracted by all the noise that

33:22

was surrounding McLaren at the time? They

33:24

finished ninth, ninth in

33:26

the World Championship that year,

33:28

you know, behind Haas, behind Toro Rosso.

33:30

So there was the negativity

33:32

of that, there was the management changes that

33:34

we touched on a little bit earlier. Was

33:37

it difficult for you to just stay focused

33:39

on your job? It was not easy, because

33:41

you could feel the tension in the team

33:43

on every level. Like, okay, yes,

33:46

the management was changing a lot,

33:48

and there was, you know, there was things going on. But

33:51

even on an engineering side, you could feel the

33:53

tensions were there, because at some

33:55

point, everyone was afraid to lose their job,

33:57

to speak up, to say, well,

34:00

what's going on. So you

34:02

could definitely feel that tension within the

34:04

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Illinois. How

37:00

did you get your goals for 2018? And

37:06

so, we go into 2018, you've got the Renault

37:08

Power Unit now pushing you along. What

37:11

were your goals for that year? The

37:13

competitor in you wants to make a

37:15

step. What did you think was going

37:17

to be possible? Obviously, as a lot

37:19

of Formula One teams are, you're quite

37:21

ambitious going into or out of the

37:23

winter, into winter testing. We

37:26

actually knew that the first couple of races were

37:28

going to be a bit difficult, because like I

37:30

just said, the change from Honda to Renault took

37:32

a lot of resources away from the chassis side. So,

37:35

we kind of started with the car more

37:37

or less as it was in 2017. But

37:39

then we had this big upgrade planned for Barcelona,

37:42

which was going to give us a

37:44

lot of lap time. And that's

37:47

the upgrade that was going to push us to

37:49

be competing at the front. So,

37:52

the first couple of races we were, I think we scored a

37:54

couple of points, we were around 10, 9, 11. You

37:58

scored in three of the opening four races. basis

38:00

stuff. Okay, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

38:04

So it started ironically, so we started quite

38:06

well. Reasonably okay. And we thought, okay, well

38:08

now this big upgrade is coming, we're going

38:10

to be in the mix. And

38:12

the upgrade came in Barcelona and basically

38:15

gave us zero lap time. That was

38:17

a difficult moment for the team to

38:19

kind of realize that we didn't

38:21

take the jump that we needed to take to really

38:23

be fighting at the front. So that

38:26

car that season was a little bit numb. Everything

38:29

we brought, it didn't really bring performance. And

38:31

we just kept kind of slipping back

38:34

the order while the others managed

38:36

to improve through the year. I love

38:38

that description of a car feeling numb. So

38:41

was it very difficult to set up as a result?

38:44

It was. It was

38:46

kind of like the bad sister of

38:49

the previous year's car where it

38:52

was kind of behaving in a nicer way in 2017.

38:55

I could do much more with it, what

38:57

I wanted it to do. The

38:59

2018 cars just, you know,

39:01

we kept throwing updates at it and it

39:03

never really had a big impact. So

39:06

yeah, it was just much more complicated to make

39:08

it work. And does that affect

39:10

your confidence behind the wheel? I

39:13

wouldn't say so. It was more

39:15

the external factors with the

39:17

management. Suddenly I could feel that

39:20

they were losing a bit of trust. They

39:22

were looking at changing things. So are we

39:24

talking about the management as in Zach Brown?

39:27

Yes. It's his arm of McLaren

39:29

we're talking about now. Yeah, exactly. So

39:31

and you could feel that, or

39:34

I could certainly feel that they wanted to change

39:36

things. He was very supportive through

39:38

the first couple of races. But

39:40

then I could feel that suddenly changed a little

39:42

bit and he was not

39:45

giving that same belief, that

39:47

same confidence. And that's kind

39:49

of where things started to go wrong a

39:51

little bit. And was the writing

39:53

on the wall from the

39:56

moment Lando Norris started doing FP1s? I think

39:58

it was at the Belgian Grand Prix. ironically

40:00

your home race? Yeah, it might have been that

40:02

race, yeah. Is that when you

40:04

felt, nah, okay, I think my future doesn't

40:06

lie at McLaren beyond the end of the

40:08

year? I think it was already before

40:11

that, to be honest. Silverstone was

40:13

probably one of the races

40:16

where things suddenly changed and I

40:19

wouldn't say it came out of nowhere but it was

40:22

like a very sudden change in

40:24

approach, let's say. And I

40:26

just remember from then on the

40:29

second part of that year, I wasn't

40:32

myself, I wasn't feeling loved

40:34

within the team, I struggled

40:38

to motivate myself to even go to the race,

40:40

let's say. So yeah, that was just a

40:42

quite horrible time in my career and I

40:44

was in a pretty dark space as well.

40:47

Obviously then losing the drive at

40:49

the end of that year, it took

40:51

me a little while to kind of get my

40:54

confidence back, to get my mojo back,

40:56

to love the sport again. Yeah, that

40:58

was just a very dark space, to be honest. Stoph,

41:01

can we talk a little bit about that? So you're 24, you've dominated

41:05

the junior formulas, I mean that season in

41:07

GP2 in 2015, I touched on

41:09

it earlier, was I think

41:12

we've never seen anything like it

41:14

before. There was the debut in

41:16

Bahrain, there was the sort

41:19

of going toe to toe with Fernando in year

41:21

one. So when it all comes to an end,

41:25

how tough is that for a young guy? It's

41:27

challenging, you know, your whole life,

41:29

your whole career, you're working towards

41:32

that one goal of getting to Formula One

41:35

and then suddenly you're

41:37

in Formula One and it's not going the

41:40

way that you've kind of imagined it going,

41:42

that's quite tough to take. And

41:44

that's also why I said like I wish I

41:46

enjoyed my time a little bit more, is because

41:49

you know you get there, but your

41:52

brain is so taken

41:54

over by the whole Formula One world,

41:56

by the engineering side of

41:58

things, the media. everything that

42:00

comes with it that you actually can't

42:02

properly enjoy almost that you know being

42:05

there already is a huge achievement It's

42:07

something you know only 20 drivers have

42:09

the opportunity to to be there

42:11

So you know I've come to terms

42:13

with that and and you know I think

42:15

I'm in a position now Where I'm able to enjoy

42:17

much more that what I'm doing How

42:19

hungry were you to get back into Formula

42:22

one after? 2018

42:24

or did you actually want to have a break

42:26

from it? I actually wanted to go

42:28

away from it a little bit I was

42:30

quite close with Toto Wolf back then and

42:32

he gave me an opportunity to join Mercedes

42:35

in in Formula E Which is

42:37

ultimately the route that I pursued and

42:39

I felt like I needed a bit of change back

42:41

then as well I needed to kind

42:44

of get away from it a little bit rebuild

42:47

myself I needed to To

42:49

have results again to feel myself that

42:52

I was still capable of doing it

42:54

Let's say after two tough years with

42:56

with McLaren. That's why I

42:58

decided to go the Formula E route with

43:00

Mercedes I was very confident that they were

43:02

you know gonna be a good

43:04

team there Yeah, I just needed

43:06

a little bit of a

43:09

change was there much F1 work

43:12

while you were at Mercedes There was a little

43:14

bit. We started quite slowly I was just doing

43:16

a little bit of simulator for them You know

43:18

not too involved in the team, but I was

43:20

yeah I was still doing kind

43:23

of the usual simulator days with them helping

43:25

with some some race support stuff But

43:27

I wasn't I wasn't traveling too much to

43:29

any races back then because 2020 Saki

43:33

Grand Prix Lewis Hamilton gets kovid and

43:35

I remember Hearing the news break

43:37

and I was thinking right who are they gonna put

43:39

in the car and I actually thought I wonder where

43:42

The stuff will get the call up of course George

43:44

Russell got the call to exchange from Williams to Mercedes

43:46

But was it ever a conversation that you had with

43:48

the team that you would replace Lewis for that race?

43:51

It was a little bit of a conversation I

43:53

mean I was dealing with James fouls back then

43:55

and he called me before and said look well Because

43:58

they knew that Lewis was out out so long

44:00

in advance. Like, look, we've got

44:02

a driver problem for the future as well.

44:05

And this might be our only opportunity.

44:08

We get to test George next

44:10

to Valtteri. This is the way we

44:12

want to we want to go the route we

44:14

want to take and I'm also old enough to

44:16

understand their, you know, their future plans. But,

44:19

you know, I think it was kind of nice. The

44:22

way that they explained it to me, like there was no

44:24

bullshit about it. It was just to the

44:26

point, this is what we want to do.

44:28

We want to evaluate George for the future. I

44:30

think there are some parallels between what

44:32

you've gone through in Formula One and

44:35

Roman Grosjean because he was Fernando Alonso's

44:38

teammate at Renault in 2009 for seven

44:40

races and

44:43

he had a tough time and he

44:46

had to step away from Formula One for

44:48

two years before then coming back in 2012

44:51

with Lotus and actually finishing on the podium

44:53

that year. And, you know, we

44:55

got a good few years after that. So

44:59

when you stepped away and you were doing

45:01

Formula E with Mercedes and

45:03

you got your confidence back and, you know,

45:05

the winning feeling comes back. Did Formula One

45:08

then start to appear on your mindset

45:11

about how do I get back in? Yes

45:14

and no. Obviously, you

45:16

know, you want to you always want to

45:18

see what's going on in Formula One world and

45:20

there were maybe a couple

45:22

of discussions. But at the same

45:24

time, people move on very

45:26

quickly and there's always the next guy

45:29

in line that is waiting as well.

45:31

So I would say there was never really

45:33

any proper or serious

45:35

discussion where there would have been another

45:37

opportunity to kind of come back even

45:39

though I feel like I would probably

45:42

be a better version of myself right

45:44

now if I would have a chance

45:47

to come back. That opportunity

45:49

was never really there. And

45:51

if Fernando or Lance were

45:53

to injure themselves so they couldn't

45:55

compete in a race now, do you

45:58

think you're sharp? Could you just... in tomorrow and

46:00

be competitive? I could, yes, 100%.

46:03

I mean that's also why I'm here

46:05

with the team, is to be

46:07

ready in case something like that happens.

46:10

And you know, I'm still racing other

46:12

championships, I'm driving competitive cars,

46:14

I'm doing a lot of sim work with

46:16

Aston Martin as well, so if

46:19

anything I'm much better prepared than I used

46:21

to be back in 2016 when I first

46:23

jumped in. And physically would you be there?

46:26

Everyone talks about how demanding these cars are.

46:28

That's probably the hardest part, because there's only

46:30

so much you can do. I think

46:33

racing is still the best thing

46:35

to stay fit, because there's nothing else

46:37

that can give you the same G-forces,

46:39

especially on your neck, that's the

46:42

hardest part. I think we've seen a lot

46:45

of new people jumping in and I think that's probably

46:47

the thing they struggle with the most. The good thing

46:49

is I've experienced that in the past, so I know

46:52

what it is to be in pain, but when you

46:54

haven't done it for so long, you

46:56

just have to survive, but I'm a

46:58

tough warrior. And go on, be honest

47:00

with us,

47:03

are you tempted to set a

47:05

few booby traps? Or if Fernando

47:07

will say, can you make me

47:09

a coffee, and the milk's a

47:11

bit out of date, okay let's

47:13

say that. No, I'm fair play that way,

47:17

no games being played. Tell us

47:19

a little bit, particularly actually I'm interested

47:21

in in the sports car

47:23

that you're racing now with Peugeot. You're

47:26

going to Le Mans, just how big

47:28

a step is that away from F1? I

47:30

mean it's a different world, it's a, well

47:33

first of all, different cars, but also a

47:35

complete different mentality of going racing,

47:38

because you're sharing a car with

47:40

two other drivers, so it's

47:43

less focused on one person. It's really

47:45

a team effort, it's

47:47

long distance races, and

47:49

Le Mans is obviously the one

47:51

race that everyone in endurance racing wants

47:53

to do well at, and wants to

47:55

win. Fernando's won it, he had a

47:57

year off and did it with Teotas. I

48:01

would say for now, you know, whilst I

48:03

don't have an opportunity in Formula One, that's

48:05

kind of where my target lies. It's to

48:07

be able to fight for

48:09

a victory in Le Mans, because I think outside of

48:12

Formula One, it is the biggest

48:14

race in motorsport. Do you enjoy

48:16

the team aspect? Do you like having

48:18

teammates who you actually need to

48:21

work properly with? I do

48:23

like it. It's a very different feeling, especially

48:25

after a long-distance race, especially

48:27

one that's gone well, like where you've

48:29

had a good result. Everyone

48:32

is so drained, so

48:34

mentally exhausted, physically exhausted

48:36

from those 24-hour races that

48:39

the emotions are just running

48:42

very high. And yeah, it feels

48:44

like one of the biggest accomplishments when you manage

48:46

to finish on high. As a

48:48

driver, do you get quite possessive about your

48:50

car in terms of… So when one of

48:52

your teammates is driving it, are you quite

48:54

concerned? Are you pacing like a father at

48:57

the back of the garage? I'm not too

48:59

concerned, no. And you can't be.

49:02

You have to give the confidence to them as well,

49:04

because that's what the team works about, is

49:06

to make your teammates feel comfortable. But

49:09

then there's still this little bit where

49:11

you're always thinking, well, if I'm in the car, maybe I can do

49:14

better. So there's still a little

49:16

bit of competition going on, but I think

49:18

that's a healthy competition. Yeah, healthy competition. Well,

49:21

just final one from me. Are you going

49:23

to be testing the Aston again this year, 2024? I

49:27

think I will be at some point, yes. Spa?

49:30

I hope spa. I mean, if it's spa,

49:32

that's great. I'm from there, obviously, it's my

49:34

home track, and it's my

49:36

favorite track as well. So yeah, if I

49:38

have the opportunity there, that would be fantastic.

49:41

Let's hope it's dry. Let's hope you can

49:43

show the world what you're capable of. And

49:46

Stoff, as I said, I think you deserve another crack

49:48

in Formula One. But look, thank you very much for

49:50

your time. It's been great to talk through it. Now

49:52

before you go, new for this year,

49:55

we have some quick fire question.

49:57

Good. All right. good

50:00

at? Running. Oh yeah?

50:03

Apparently. Go on, give me some

50:05

time. I can run fast. Are

50:07

we talking sprinting, long distance? No,

50:09

like not sprinting, like more distance. Okay,

50:11

I need to know your 10k time.

50:14

My 10k time is 39 minutes.

50:16

Okay, you can run. You're

50:19

good. Maybe not right now, but at

50:22

some point. Now, which racing driver, dead

50:24

or alive, would you want to be

50:26

stuck in a lift with? In a

50:29

lift? Airtun? He

50:31

was a hero for many of us, so

50:34

it would have been cool to share a lift

50:37

ride with him. Who would

50:39

play you in a film? Leo?

50:43

Leo to DiCaprio? I don't know.

50:47

Are we thinking, what spec of Leo? Are

50:49

we Titanic Leo? Are we Wolf of Wall

50:51

Street Leo? I like Wolf

50:54

of Wall Street Leo. Okay, a bit

50:57

crazy. Who

50:59

is the coolest person in your contacts?

51:02

The coolest person? Might

51:04

have to pass on that one. It

51:07

can be a racing driver. I

51:09

can't think of any. I

51:12

was hoping you'd say, I don't know. Jean-Claude Van

51:14

Dann. No. Fernando Alonso. That'll

51:16

do. I'm talking about

51:18

cool people. Who's

51:22

cool? Look, final

51:24

one. Who would be your first guest

51:26

if you hosted a podcast? Maybe

51:30

my dad. How much of your career do

51:32

you owe to your dad? A lot. Maybe

51:35

I haven't really

51:39

thanked him that much for it. Or let's say,

51:41

I think he knows that I appreciate that a

51:43

lot. But yeah,

51:45

I think it would be cool to have a

51:48

conversation with him or a proper conversation

51:50

with him and run back through all

51:52

the memories we've had together since

51:54

the very beginning. You said he was at the

51:57

Super Formula test that you did back in 2016. Before,

52:00

we left one day. Did you go

52:02

karting together? Was he at

52:04

all your races? Yeah, we went

52:07

karting together. Obviously, he was always

52:09

with me, driving me everywhere. When

52:13

I was younger, it was him and

52:15

my uncle that were kind

52:17

of the mechanics as well for my

52:20

little go kart. So yeah, we had

52:22

a lot of fun memories to start with. That

52:24

would be a great episode. Episode one. Episode one.

52:27

Thank you. Thank you. A

52:35

podcast thanking his dad. I love that. It

52:37

sums up the human side of Stoffel. Well,

52:39

I hope you enjoyed that chat. I took

52:41

a lot from it, especially the way he

52:43

reflected on how hard it is for young

52:46

drivers when plans don't work out. Right team,

52:48

wrong time. Happens so often in this sport,

52:50

and it's a hard concept to get your

52:52

head around if you're a young driver. So

52:54

thank you for being so candid about it

52:57

all, Stoffel, and thank you for your time.

52:59

I'll see you again soon. Please

53:02

let me know what you thought of what Stoffel

53:04

had to say. As you did after last week's

53:06

episode with Joe Granhue, lots of people got in

53:08

touch to wish him luck in his home race

53:10

in Shanghai. And Jerry Phil summed

53:12

up the Joe mania with this.

53:15

It's very easy to get behind Joe. He

53:17

seems like such a nice guy and he's

53:19

pushing Valtteri on track. Well, thanks for getting

53:21

in touch, Jerry. And I'm sure there are

53:24

a lot of people who agree with you.

53:26

Well, that's almost it for this week. Before

53:28

I go, a couple of messages. F1

53:30

Nation's review of the Chinese Grand Prix

53:33

is out now. I'm joined by Mercedes

53:35

Reserve driver Fred Voste and Albert Fabregal

53:37

in the Shanghai paddock. So do give

53:40

that a listen on your podcast app.

53:43

And don't forget that you can watch F1

53:45

Beyond the Grid on F1's official YouTube

53:47

channel. Head there to watch many episodes,

53:49

including Juan Pablo Montoya discussing how he

53:52

lost the 2003 title. You can also

53:54

take a look at this episode with

53:56

Stoffel van Dern. I'll of course

53:58

be back next week with another great guest

54:00

from the world of Formula One. Thanks

54:03

for listening. F1 Beyond the Grid is

54:05

produced by Formula One and Audioboon Studios.

54:07

Until next time, keep it flatter.

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