[00:00:16] I have with me today my special guest Jacynth Bassett . Jacynth is the founder of the first pro age online premium fashion boutique the bias-cut.com. And she's also fighting ageism. She's an ageism fighting trailblazer. Hello and welcome to Fab after 50.

[00:00:35] Hi Ceri. It's a pleasure to be talking to you.

[00:00:38] Now I know we've had lots of conversations haven't we away from this podcast about how the fashion industry hasn't really caught up with reality how women over 50 actually see ourselves and how we like to dress today.

[00:00:50] Yes. Yeah well I mean I think we're seeing it slowly changing I think largely because the fashion industry is cottoning on to the fact that midlife women have disposable income but it's still very gradual and it's all quite tokenistic and I think even when we see older women featured in campaigns because we are seeing that a bit more now, we are,

[00:01:19] There are more than when I first started.

[00:01:20] Yes. And same with me. And so it is getting there. But if we notice they often the models beautiful as they are often look the same. They are often quite tall slim Caucasian with silver hair and a lot of women over 50 are not like that. And additionally as I often say to brand that's the thing that the issue is not just about featuring that woman in a campaign it's got to be authentic and understanding that customer has to be in every aspect of the business. So often you might for example go online and I've seen an older woman the campaign put their whole website is still using younger models. And you've also got the fact that a lot of there's also the lack of understanding of the customer in terms of her body shape her lifestyle. So you can say you're catering to women all you want by putting in an older model in it but doesn't mean actually that the average older woman over 50 wants to want to wear these clothes and that it will really understand her figure. So it is really a deeper issue than the way the fashion industry is treating it right now.

[00:02:26] Yes and actually interestingly enough I received a press release today from somebody that these dresses that we know are great for older women as well.

[00:02:33] Well I'd wear them as tops together but I think it's so short I might wear a tunic top that is no way I feel out in that particular sort of style.

[00:02:41] I mean would be. Exactly. And it's completely misunderstanding really the fact that women want to dress stylishly. They want to feel confident feel contemporary. But it doesn't mean they're going to suddenly wear everything that 20 year olds wear or in the same way that she would wear. And as you say I mean there's often I find it with designers they almost look at me with sort of shock when I say but this isn't going to work. Maybe it's the neckline or you know something to do with it's unflattering around the middle and they just don't understand it. And it's unfortunate it comes down to the fact that there's still I think a lot of it is rooted in education. But even designers at fashion school a lot of them are still only really designing for younger women so they don't understand that there is a different customer out there and that they need to be catered to in a slightly different way.

[00:03:33] Oh absolutely. I mean on the same side as I was when I was younger I'm very fortunate in that.

[00:03:38] But my body shape has changed. So you have to look at things so you known simply say sleeve length, better sleeve patterns cut for the upper arms . And also things like where the darts are placed.

[00:03:49] Exactly. I mean I think is often a problem. Yes. I mean I think that you know busts often with gaping and also sleeves. I mean we talked about that though about the difficulty to find sleeves. And it's just understanding their lifestyle as much as anything else as well. Now you want to be going dressed up nicely maybe to go to dinner or to theatre or something. Now you might go to the club but it's you know fewer women over 50 I think go to a nightclub. So again it's a completely different lifestyle and it's different priorities and values that need to be understood.

[00:04:29] And also if you think they should absolutely appreciate the spending power that our generation have now perhaps because the kids have flown the nest et cetera as opposed to younger women who are sort of investing in growing their careers and also bringing up families.

[00:04:44] Yeah I think that's one thing that's driving force behind why we're seeing more inclusivity and that is to do with spending power. You know I know quite a few brands who when I first approached so I first first came up the idea of the bias cu in 1212 so really back then we were seeing very little when I started developing the business after university in 2014 it was still an issue and even bigger than it is right now and a lot of designers were very dismissive of me and the concept if you even when I muttered the word over 40 they were horrified and kept saying you about our clothes are pretty cool. They can know a lot of our customers are younger and that's fine. I'm not saying that they're not but why can't you be cool over 40. And interestingly quite a few of them have now completely changed their tune and say that they're very inclusive. They feature older women their campaigns and I think. I think it obviously I don't know personally but I think sadly whether it's a good or bad thing I mean it's happening but it is likely it's because of the spending power. I think you know more younger millennials the young professionals I don't know many people who can spend a lot of money at my age you know particularly with the housing you know they won't get on the property ladder more than anything so they don't have the income that maybe 20 30 years ago even someone younger did have and and also there's the fact that I do think that we have people who their kids have left. And again they want to dress differently to how but in their 50s to how their parents did. So it's all the more to do with I think though spending power.

[00:06:38] Yeah I have to say that I mean a few years ago I was I was at a trade show for the fashion industry. Yeah and I was on one particular brand and there was some sort of dress at that I thought was ideal for a feature which I was doing a for a wedding guest special occasional wear. Yeah. And they're really happy to give you me photograph. Until I gave them my card. Right. They said no way. They did not want these clothes as being suitable for the 50s. They said we are targeting that you know the 20s and 30s market. We don't want those women to think that somebody over 50 is wearing the same dress. I think they were against it.

[00:07:15] I think as you said it's changing but it's slow to change.

[00:07:20] It's an interesting thing because you know with the bias cut the whole thing is that the pieces that we sell can work on any age but our curation is focused on championing the 50 plus woman, So there is a way. Yes there is a way. Yeah but what's interesting is that I still have people who who are younger. We do have customers who are younger but there are customers who are younger who are gonna go oh I could really wear this stuff. In shock and I have friends who have dismissed even looking at the website and then when I'll turn up to a party wearing something that you know we sell they'll be really surprised that it's from the web site. And so there is this divide and this idea that is off putting for younger women to see old women in the same clothes and we need to get to a point where it really shouldn't matter the age of the person wearing the clothes at all. If you just if they're nice clothes and they've stylish that's what you appreciate. And I think we are slowly getting that with other people such as Iris Apfel and Helen Mirren and a lot of fantastic actresses over 50 who are very stylish. And so it is having an impact on the younger generation seeing older women can dress beautifully and get older. But as you say there's still this concern in particular amongst designers from a branding perspective that as soon as they are identified with an older customer that younger customer won't be interested. And I know of designers who have turned down A-list celebrities for wearing pieces at huge award ceremonies because they didn't want it associated with an old customer because they thought it would damage their reputation of being cool . And for some reason and I actually think that the more millennials are coming up to the fact that that's not the case much.

[00:09:18] I think it's actually the fashion industry. And often their PR and the branding the marketing advisers who are slightly behind.

[00:09:26] I think there's an education process in some ways.

[00:09:30] Yeah absolutely. I think at all ages. I mean why one of the things that I get oftentimes is why do you care about ageism you're only 26. And my answer is why shouldn't I care about something. It might not directly impact me right now but it's the same as saying a march in Cairo about women's rights just because he's not a woman. And also ageism is the only ism that actually will affect every single person. So we need to be educating everybody it shouldn't just be a topic of conversation for people over 50 it needs be a conversation for all ages.

[00:10:05] Totally agree. So I mean in terms of buying clothes. Why do you think we need to pick sites such as yourself. Easier for us to buy. Why can't we just go into top shop or go to top shop online and buy our clothes.

[00:10:22] Well as I said it's a lot to do with understanding body shape more than anything else and lifestyle. I think obviously there are pieces that are out there in other shops but it can be a very long somewhat demoralising experience trawling through them and not finding the pieces that work. And it makes the midlife women feel secondary and that's not right. They should feel just as important and just as empowered as somebody younger. So that's why I think we need websites but I don't want I don't think they should be exclusive in terms of saying you know women who are younger can't wear these pieces. That's my view and similar with other brands and makeup. I don't think they should be exclusive but I think what they need to be doing is championing that woman treating her as the primary customer so that she feels wanted and she feels valued and at the moment because we don't have that in the shops and a lot online. That's why we need to have websites that do do the opposite and actually pioneer change.

[00:11:29] And when we look at and talk about that change and the kinds of clothes we want to wear I know that when I go back even 10 years everybody kept calling me about rules things like women over 50 shouldn't wear jeans, women over 50 shouldn't wear skirts above the knee. women over 50 shouldn't wear high heels, women over 50 definitely shouldn't wear bikinis though. Personally I don't know think you should any rules and wear what you feel comfortable with that. Great. Are you finding that when you go to talk to designers etc. they still think there are rules.

[00:12:03] I think to be perfectly honest not as much because they are often still not even considering that customer enough. If I'm honest I think if I was presented with designers who say these are the rules I'd at least find that somewhat encouraging that they are even considering that customer. But they do.

[00:12:24] there are assumptions made that women won't wear certain things or won't wear prints or a cut. And I do know designers who would point or might cater to ladies but will usher the slightly older customer towards certainly the more boring, frumpier garments I think generally I mean it's like I'm with you.

[00:12:52] I don't believe in any of these rules as I think what I find sad is that actually I have a lot of women customers who recite them because they I often hear people saying Oh I know this rule and I shouldn't wear that. And that's what I find quite sad is that they have been led to believe that they have to follow these rules. They don't have the confidence to be able to wear whatever they like and feel good in it and that's I think that's the biggest danger of these articles out there trying to dictate what women shouldn't shouldn't ways actually impacts the customer more than the designers.

[00:13:30] But hopefullly though as you said we've got more more celebrities who wore the A-list now who have leading roles like I'm thinking of like Jennifer Aniston you have Sandra Bullock. Yes. But we they're not going to be invisible. they will break the rules I like to be wearing jeans, wearing hair long the the other thing women over 50 shouldn't have hair below their chins.

[00:13:54] I've written about that. People think about the hair off as soon as they get older.

[00:13:59] Exactly. I mean I think you're very very brave person to actually suggest that to me.

[00:14:01] It's just amazing isn't it that these perceptions still exist but as you say hopefully with more more celebrities who are more I guess more mainstream will help again to address that sort of difference in perception.

[00:14:21] Absolutely. I think you know these are very bankable people who are going to be still in the limelight for many years to come. Most likely they looked up to by people who were much younger as well. And I think they will completely change perception of what somebody over 50 looks like. I mean even looking at someone like Celine Dion she's had a whole style revolution and I really liked the fact that her stylist or Roach he was his second client and his first client was the Nickelodeon star who I think isabout 20 and then the second line is Celine Dion and she's in her 50s and she's had a complete revolution with dressing in fabulous clothes and that's also really encouraging that a stylist is even wanting to work with people like that. But yeah I think also the other slight issue is that there are lots of people who are starting to speak out against ageism but there are still certain somewhat ideologies as to how to age. And I do know brands influencers who are seemingly champions of aging but they're still promoting a very narrow vision of what ageing looks like.

[00:15:42] For example going grey and I think it's great that more and more women feel comfortable going grey if they want to. But again if they want to but there is still nothing wrong with dying your hair.

[00:15:53] If you don't want to go grey and not all of us go grey. I was asked by somebody if I would dye my hair color back to grey to showcase their products and their conditioner and then they would get my hair back to whatever I wanted to afterwards. I only have a few highlights in my hair and I said to my hairdresser I wasn't sure I'd want to subject my hair to that sort of very harsh treatment. Yeah that's a lot of chemicals. A lot of chemicals and he said actually Ceri You haven't got enough grey hair. He said that I have to really look for your grey hair.

[00:16:28] My hair's got darker as I've got older but it hasn't yet gone grey .

[00:16:33] Exactly I mean my mom's similar she she didn't go. She's gotten sort of she had the white bits on the outside of her head that she didn't go way wighty greyy. Well she still isn't really completely. And she's now in her 60s. And as you say I think that it does concern me that I know women have been shamed for not going grey. So it's actually go into the other extreme it's still ageism because ageism is about choice and choice to age. However you want without any external pressure or judgement. And so if we're shaming people for not going grey and seemingly in their view embracing their age it's just as bad. And that's why I think the danger is still with both brands and with communities it's understanding that that should not be the message we're promoting.

[00:17:24] No. I mean this is a big issue. I mean we've been where you're not really part of the sisterhood not because you're not very grey. It's not only me. I'm not naturally grey neither with my grandmother my mother went grey quite young but my grandmother didn't you know in fact she didn't go where she she still wasn't very gray when she died. So it's just I guess it's in your genes isn't it. Yes absolutely. But I can't pretend it's been authentic and I don't have the grey hair. I want to go to have my hair dyed Grey in order to be seen to be part of this new movement where it's all about we're all different. Yeah. We have people who go grey in the early 20s. Exactly. I've got friends who have grey hair. I think the consistency of my hair has changed but the colour of my hair, I'm a bit darker hasn't really. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I think again that's almost created a new rule. If you're over 50 you should be grey.

[00:18:24] Yeah exactly. And it's the same as saying you know I'm I'm a believer that there's nothing wrong with having Botox, plastic surgery if you want to. It's a personal choice. Again I think is sad is when I know often actresses talk about the fact they feel they've had to do it in order to remain looking beautiful and that's what's sad. And it's again people get attacked for using Botox and it actually is their decision how they want to live and it's that same with clothing and I had somebody say to me that they didn't approve of us than what we're doing because they don't believe that women as they get older should care about being stylish. It's about their was like yes. And being timeless and classic clothes and going gray and that's just as bad as rejecting this customer because you're still saying that there's only one way a woman who's older can fit in. And so there's a conflict of views but this person an influencer had thousands of followers. And it really concerned me that her followers were going to listen to her views and consider them to be right.

[00:19:36] Because everybody has their own opinion isn't it. And it's just something whether or not you're strong enough as an individual to actually have your own opinion as well and say well that's alright. That's your opinion. But you know I think slightly differently.

[00:19:48] I mean I think the thing is is that confidence is a key problem particularly as women get older in terms of their image. Like a lot of women say to me that they've lost that confidence. Maybe they had other priorities children work whatnot. And they kind of want to find himself again. And I think the reason that the rules we mean obviously the ideal is that we can respect people's opinion and we can decide for ourselves for them or not. But because women are being made to feel so irrelevant by the fashion industry. The beauty industry as they get older it obviously damages confidence. You know we see that three to five thousand adverts a day. And if the majority of them promote this idea that youth equals beauty then it's no wonder that as women get older they feel less and less good about themselves.

[00:20:40] So I think they some women turn to these rules for guidelines on how to do it how to dress when they view what's right because they're being told this is wrong this is wrong it's wrong and they're afraid of dressing in a way that maybe they just want to do they want to get it right. So I think that's where this confidence issue that we need to turn to once we can eradicate this feeling that women are more visible more relevant then hopefully they can feel more empowered to make their own decision on how they want to dress and look.

[00:21:13] And I think also when the right thing I believe can give me more confidence because we all know what it's like if you have a bout of flu whatever you feel really awful. But as soon as you feel a bit better and you sort of look in the mirror you shall put your make on wear a brighter colour you kind of feel better as well.

[00:21:30] And to exactly I mean it's like the whole adage of the lucky pants that you put on your lucky underwear and you say properly I'm very unlucky person. Well you see the thing is is that they're obviously not imbued with actual luck. But the fact is you put them on and you probably behave like differently. And I'm a big believer in the strong emotive connection between style and between your mind and your style and how it makes you feel. I think you know fashion is often derided and criticised being superficial and frivolous but in terms of style I think it's actually really important. After all we all wear clothes you put on clothes. It's not you know we make a decision to put on certain clothes in the morning. So there is more of a purpose behind what we wear and a more of a connection. And I really think that it shouldn't be dismissed so readily because even people who say they don't like fashion. Well you do dress in a way that conveys that message.

[00:22:36] And so everything we wear conveys the message. And I think it's very important for us to recognise that and not criticise or ridicule people who do like style and fashion.

[00:22:47] I think also with more and more women over 50 setting up their own businesses there's also still been very much engaged in the workplace. Yes it's all about personal branding as well. People are very making impressions based on the first few seconds that they see you upset what you wear reflects their opinion of you before you even say anything. So as a woman in business you have to look as though you are a woman in business and what you wear has to really reflect the business that you're in you cant ignore the fact that clothing does play a part in that.

[00:23:20] Absolutely. I mean I met a gentleman who said that the reason for gender inequality in the workplace is because women didn't know how to dress properly. And when I obviously challenged him about that he was of the view that women need to be dressing more to blend in when actually lots of women are now want to stand out in business and they need to be wearing that bright jacket that gets remembered. And so obviously I gave him a whole lecture on how sexist his own views were but as you say it's whether we like it or not we are superficial we do judge people by their cover.

[00:23:59] And so we do want to present ourselves to convey who we are or that message whether it's you know I mean business or whether you're feeling sexy or whatever it is. We dress in that way.

[00:24:13] And one of the things I know when it comes to business and or outside of business is that through the website a lot of people commented on the fact that one of the things they do like to do is wear dresses with sleeves. Now I think I've noticed a lot more dresses with leeves generally out there. But why is it that it is so difficult for people to find these in a variety of dresses the sleeves on the high street.

[00:24:38] Yeah I mean I think again it comes back a lot to do with this education. And designers, the problem is is a lot of designers are creative.

[00:24:50] They're not really thinking as much about the commercial side of business they're more about wanting to execute their creative vision. And so a lot of the time they might feel that a sleeve will ruin the overall look of the garment without actually considering the fact that somebody is going to want to wear it eventually. So it's to do with a lot to do with the lines that.

[00:25:11] And then there's also the fact that they often don't understand again about getting them the right width. I know there are pieces that have sleeves but they could be really tight on the arms and uncomfortable. So again its often to understand the education of designers and how they can incorporate sleeves into garments that will look good and cater to the customer. I think as you said we are seeing more sleeve. I think it's partly a trend thing. Actually at the moment at the moment it's quite trendy to have like a long dress with sleeves and a lot of younger women wearing them as well. So whether we will continue to see sleeves. I don't know.

[00:25:54] But I think again it all just comes down to educating designers and brands on how to consider that customer and and not compromise the design but still be able to give her what she wants.

[00:26:09] So I mean in terms of what we do want are there key investment pieces that you see your customers wanting to buy that you would recommend to them that they should actually go out and buy to make sure their wardrobes work for them. And also they do look current.

[00:26:24] Yeah I mean I think it is with us becoming more aware of the damage caused by fast disposable fashion. I think it's increasingly hard to justify going to buy cheap fashion that you probably gonna throw away next season. So a lot of people suggest only investing in core classic pieces whereas I actually believe that time to invest in starting more trendy pieces as long as they feel authentic to your personal style because then they will still look great nest season. So I think my first thing I always say to people is think about reflects you and that's the pieces to invest in. It's better to shop to buy fewer things but things that will last. But when it but in terms of staples that would be great in anyone's wardrobe a great pair of jeans, dark slim fitting jeans I always recommend I always recommend a good blazer because it's just so easy just to throw on. I think a lot of women struggle with this idea of what does smart casual often mean and we all see that in dress codes and I think it gives a little headache thinking oh god what'dd that going to be and I always remember when dress down Friday started

[00:27:34] What do I wear on a Friday and not look as though I'm doing the housework. Exactly. And I always say that the best way to do it is a nice pair of jeans maybe a t shirt and a blazer and you're done. And it's such an easy formula for me so that. And then a few nice t shirts and then obviously I think there's nothing wrong with buying a few pieces that are really beautiful statement garment again if you really love them they will last for years and there will still make you feel good every time you put them on and people there's a lot of women who feel guilty about spending on themselves. Whenever we do pop up shops. Interesting. It;s often husbands who are encouraging their wives to spend and treat themselves when so many of them feel they shouldn't do it. And you know they can see the fact that this makes them feel good and their partner loves that.

[00:28:26] So whenever there isn't anything wrong with saying right this is actually quite an out there piece but actually I'm going to I'm going to invest in it because if it makes you happy that's what's important.

[00:28:35] I couldn't agree more. I got pieces in my wardrobe that I've had for over 20 years that were expensive with individual items but I bought them in fact I have a whole feature written on my pink leather jacket and I get stopped in the street askong where I got it.

[00:28:49] I've had it in 20 years.

[00:28:50] And after all trends come around anyway all the time so things are gonna be back in trend anyway so you know I think what animal print at the moment is so popular but let's be honest I mean I've always loved animal print. So I'm there's nothing I don't have any issue with buying into animal print. I know I'm going to want to wear it in the future.

[00:29:14] I mean I've got loads of animal prints my wardrobe with this is basically am I a secret Bet Lynch. But I've always got animal prints.

[00:29:22] And I think I think also this is this is also a way to shop more consciously and it stops this debate with fast disposable fashion. So I do say yes picking I say less is more in a lot of ways and pieces that just make you feel great.

[00:29:44] I love that she is really interesting is I've noticed that more women are going for those special pieces and they may be buying less but they are actually going for unusual designs rather than your staples because they want to actually wear something that can be fun.

[00:30:02] Interesting. And where can women find inspiration if you're not everybody is on Instagram are they. I mean it's the perception I think by a lot of PR people that women over if you only want to see the influences on Instagram. But I know a lot of my ladies aren't on Instagram.

[00:30:17] No. Yeah I agree I often have this conversation as well. Well I mean I think obviously there is social media Facebook and whatnot. I mean I always encourage going on Pinterest as well. You can. It's a great source of different looks and inspiration. And actually once it fails to give people is if they're worried about making an impact investing in a purchase thinking will this actually go with what got you can even create your own little private boards upload some pictures of your own pieces and work out how it might fit in your wardrobe. So it really is just Pinterest. It's always got so much content on there. I also do encourage looking at blogs and we have a very active blog with ideas and great ideas and inspiration and. I know that a lot of people think print is dead but I actually don't think it is. I still prefer to read magazines and just even looking at pictures of women even on catwalks. It can just give you this little styling idea because often that's what it really comes down to is styling and it could even just be a little tweak with your makeup or a little different way of wearing some jewellery. And I really think that we can use those pictures and imagery and yes we might want to see older women models but that doesn't mean we can't be inspired also by pictures of younger women. So I think there's a lot of inspiration out there. It's just just going and bringing the energy to find it really.

[00:31:58] And in terms of deciding what you want to wear and use online dont you and you have the occasional pop up shop. But I guess we've grown up going into the shop maybe have a day out with a friend and shopping and lunch and maybe a little bit more reluctant to actually buy online especially if you don't know the brand . What would you say to women like me and like other people out there that aren't used to buying online.

[00:32:25] Sure. Well yeah. A lot of people do obviously ask me about that. The fact that we started online and I'm very much of the view that shopping online can be just as enjoyable as shopping in person. It's just a different experience. You know there's almost the excitement of the item turning up like a little gift on your doorstep. One of the biggest concerns is often do with quality and fit. And there are apps and there's technology being developed that are going to try and show you virtual wardrobe how things are going to work on your body. But I think that's still not really going to perfectly work. I think what it's more about is being open minded to all the pieces. And the thing is shipping and delivery and return so is often free. So actually the money you might spend paying for parking tickets goes to your local shopping center will actually be more expensive than just ordering something online and having free or very cheap shipping. And I think you know there are a lot of websites now that are offering really good advice. Basically we with every garment we offer by sizes measurements and also we fit the garments on different shapes of women. So we are able to say you know this is you might want to take a size up if maybe you're larger on the bust for example.

[00:33:45] So you can use the guidelines , quality obviously is a difficult one. Photography can hide a multitude of sins so often that is to do more with understanding the brand you're buying from. But you know if they've got a reputation for quality then you can trust that you can purchase and you'll be happy with garments. Another big concern also is security. I thought that I would always suggest buying for a website that starts with H T T PS which means it's a secure website. Also if they have paypal it's a good indicator of the fact that they've been verified by PayPal. Yes go through company checks with that. I do don't suggest that some people think only PayPal is fine. I actually think you should also look for websites that take card because they have to go through other checks as well, security check. So if you know they take both card and PayPal that you know that they've been really verified.

[00:34:49] And you know often you can if you're really concerned do company checks PayPal at least also offers buyer protection so get a refund if the item is not turned up. But I think now that online is so common it's quite easy to spot where there's a Web site that's going to be legitimate or one that isn't.

[00:35:17] And I think also as I say in terms of the shopping experience obviously this you can't replace the idea of going into a store browsing picking things out but instead you can shop online in a different way. Know you can easily see the pieces again by having the pieces on models that can give you some styling advice as well. You know our stylist works with celebrities like Pru Leith so she styles the pieces and the people who buy the whole look because they can see that it will actually work. They might not have thought they could put these pieces together so it's just a different experience. And as I say and then you receive the item and it can it's like almost getting a little gift in the mail. So I think with the High Street struggling. I think women are limiting themselves if they don't also look online because there is a vast mall online even with the shops that are in the high street. They sell usually more online. So. And you know there's Click and Collect and things like that too. Which makes it very easy to pick up the garments. So I do think people need to be willing to engage with online shopping but it's it's take some gradual steps maybe even you ask some friends who who they currently shop with online who they rate and that can give you some more confidence and trust.

[00:36:40] Right. Well thank you for all of that and thank you so much for joining us today. I think that you know that I think that's so informative and hopefully will inspire women to have more confidence about what they choose to wear and different approaches to where they can buy it.

[00:36:55] Absolutely. You know ultimately things can only hopefully get better as more and more businesses become more aware of this customer. And I think that there's a lot more to come. So it's just having an open mind and people like ourselves are championing older women and I think things they say can only really get better. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you. And just once again your website is the-bias-cut.com. And they could find you there. OK. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:37:37] Thank you for joining us today. Please do subscribe and also send the link to friends and be part of the pro- age conversation. Life really is meant to be fabulous at every age but especially after 50.

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