Ceri Wheeldon of Fab after Fifty chats to make-up trainer Jo Jewitt of the Make-Up Training Company about how great Make Up can boost confidence over 50 and help midlife women look and feel fabulous.

In the past Jo has worked her magic on Princess Di, Bette Midler, Barbra Streisand and Madonna. Today Jo wants all women to have the tools and techniques to transform their make-up in just 5 minutes using just 9 products in 9 steps.

Jo is passionate about what she does - it's a lively conversation!!

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Episode transcript:

[00:00:04] I'm Ceri Wheeldon. And welcome to the Fab after Fifty podcast. Leading the pro age conversation, talking about all things life after 50.

[00:00:17] Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Fab after Fifty podcast. And I have with me today Jo-Anne Jewitt,  make up trainer extraordinaire. Hello, Jo, and welcome to Fab up to 50.

[00:00:28] Hello. Hello. Great to be here talking to like minded people.

[00:00:33] Absolutely, we've had fabulous chats haven't we outside of this podcast and I think it's important to share your philosophy with our listeners and the readers of the website. But first of all, can you tell us a little bit about your own backgrounds in the makeup industry?

[00:00:49] Well, How long have you got? I know it's a long. It's a long. I am now 61. So it started when I was 19 and I had a broken heart. And I joined the promotion team for Helena Rubinstein, gone to the south of France to be a nanny, realized I hated kids. And then I came back with my tail between my legs, had a little jaunt  in the police force and then realised I was going to be the worst policewoman that's ever been known to man. So I joined Rubenstein  and I started travelling. And basically I used to sit with women for hours on end and everybody else would say buy two products and I'll give you a bathrobe and. And amazingly, everybody was just there would be queuing up to see me, which even then it was was quite a revelation. And it made me realise that actually people woould actually come in for advice. They didn't want a free bathrobe or, you know, three free products. They wanted. They wanted proper advice. So I started with that because I was very successful at what I did. I came to the attention of Liz Laverne, who was our director. I was being poached by various different people because obviously I was having humongous sales. And basically they said, what can we do to keep you? So I said, well, I'd like to be properly trained. So they sent me off to Fabourge St. Honore in Paris and I did my makeup training there.  When I came back. They kind of exploited that. I know that's fine, but that's fine because I benefited from it.

[00:02:34] And then I used to do private one to ones with with elite clients, if you like. YOu've had some very elite clients haven't you?  And I did. I did. And all of them were, you know, weren't really planned in that way. But I had the beautiful Princess Di who came to me because I'd done quite a few of her friends, what we used to call back in the day, Sloane Rangers and a few of her friends had already been to me. So she came for advice because she was getting engaged and she was wearing a blue suit. And we had a big fight about blue liner because at that point, all she did actually was have her eyelashes tinted navy, weirdly,  But you know what I mean? And until we had this kind of big performance and we had a wonderful one to one, she was gorgeous, very, very, very shy, giggly young country girl who had never worn makeup. But cleverly, she actually realised that because of that point, she was being papped everywhere. And she realised that she didn't have a makeup artist permanently on her side. So she needed to learn how to use makeup for herself. And I like to think that that I taught her that. And we became quite good friends. We saw again each other. Unfortunately, I didn't realise who she was marrying at that point. And when she asked me about the wedding date, I said, oh, I'm not here. I mean, the wrong move. But good for Barbara Daley. But as well as the Princess  I had Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler and Madonna. But Madonna was just same age as me.

[00:04:24] She was just really a little pop star. Really. I didn't think she was going to turn into the icon that she is today and that the two of us would be still some being aware, doing our thing at 61. But here we are. Madonna, she's the same age as me. But. And Princess ALEXANDRA, various different people. But also, you know, just normal people and, you know, great people that just because they were celebrities or celebrities, they're just women the same as you and me, you know, they just want to look their absolute best. You know, some of the people like Barbra Streisand, she wouldn't say she's got a kind of classic beauty look. But Crikey, she does know how to make the best of herself. And that was quite an inspiration as well, because that was good. And then I went off and I did some freelance stuff. And because we bought Armani perfume, I started doing the makeup for Armani. And it was all very exciting stuff. But it all kind of, for a little girl from Sunderland who just arrived in the in the big smoke. They all used to say, say something? And I'd say. What do you want me to say? Like, oh, listen to it, isn't she sweet because it was the days before Big Brother. So I was very, very unusual in the fact that I was from the Northeast, but it was great fun and and obviously it looks great on my portfolio. But once more, with feeling that just normal women who are the same as you and I, they just want to look like themselves but better.

[00:05:52] But when it comes to our age as sort of well, you're 61, I think I'll be 60 by the time this one goes oou. Don't be frightened, Ceri. It's fine. I'm not frightened. I'm not frightened I have so many other things going on. But when you get to be over 50, why do you think it's important for us to wear makeup and perhaps even sort of take a look at how we wear that makeup?

[00:06:17] Well I wrote my book when I was 50, I like most, not like most women. I retired and hung up my makeup brushes when I had my first child. Cameron, who is now 32. And and I you know, I put that to one side. I used to do occasional things. But when I reached 45, I think and I think this is a time when we all look in the mirror and then we realise that, you know, certainly at 50, I think you realise that things have changed and our beauty needs change. And, you know, all the kind of the look that I had when I was younger, I always took it for granted. And then I noticed, you know, the inevitable lines and wrinkles and dark shadows. And, you know, you're ever changing menopausal skin where you've got hair grown out of your chin instead of your eyebrows. And, you know, we've got the kind of ... My mother said to me, when you reach 50, things start to drop off. And I had no idea what she was talking about until I reached 50. And I think at that point, I realised that I needed to change my routine, my routine. You know, beauty needs have change. I needed to look after my skin more. You know, definitely I needed to use eye creams and just things were changing. And so at that point, I also obviously lots of my friends were the same age as me.

[00:07:52] And they were saying, you know, I just my face is completely you know, sometimes you just wake up and all of a sudden it's just there is n't. You raise your children, you've done your career. You've worked hard to, you know, maintain a mortgage and do all the things that you do in life, chips away at you. Really. And then I think women are eternal martyrs. You know, they are we are the ones who kind of give to everyone, your children, your businesses, your husband, like everything else. And we put ourselves really at the back of the list. And I think that's that when you do the you know, the children have grown up, they've gone off. And then you think, oh, my God, there's me. At that point, I think it's really important to revisit your face and really start thinking about grown up makeup and put your money towards that. But the thing that got me the most at that stage was where do you go? Does a discerning woman over 40 or 50 do go into a department store? I don't think so. I mean, I was that soldier back in the day, but 90 percent. Well, you've got to understand that beauty consultants work for a company. I've made sure that I'm not allegiant to any company. So I cherry pick exactly what I feel is right and I use what I absolutely know is right for my clients and you know, the people that I talk to.

[00:09:22] But I think, wait, where do you go? I mean, I don't want to go into a department store and talk to a young, albeit enthusiastic young girl, you know, who just looks as if she's been asleep on a mars bar. But I don't want to look like that. That's not the look that I'm trying to achieve. I just want to, you know, look, highlight the best that that that's there. You know, at this point in time, my lids have got heavier, my eyebrows gone white. You know, like I said, you've got the inevitable hair that comes out in the wrong place. Your eyebrows grow straight ahead instead of the behaving  themselves and going the other way. You know that all of these things are a bit of a challenge. And that can be really depressing if you you know, if you just concentrate on them. A lot of the people that come to me are quite concerned about things like that. But, you know, the thing is, don't become a Botox junkie. That's not that's not going to work. I don't think, you know, the right makeup is the right way is the most powerful weapon for women our age. It's very important that we kind of revisit retire, you know, the blue eye shadow, the fuscia lips, the orange blusher. the over arched eyebrows that we did in the past, you know, and what we've got to do is kind of embrace a new way.

[00:10:44] So I developed the technique which I use all the time now, which is minimal, because, again, you know, I think that what we have got to understand, that we need things that are minimal and effortless. And, you know, we need to know what works and what doesn't. And I think that's that's key to everything. Nobody wants to be sitting in front of a mirror for three quarters of an hour, putting false eyelashes on and try to get that perfect eyeliner flick. You know, harsh lines have got to go. You know, all of the things that we used to get away with. You know, the lip liner in one colour and the lipstick in another and tentilly lip gloss. You know, it doesn't look right now. We can't do that. But we can capture a totally natural look and still and get that glow. But as I said, it's very important that the eyeliner, the harsh lines. You know, those those things have got to go. You've got to really start thinking about the technique is designed to contour your face and, you know, and actually shape your eye, you know, the heavy lid, if you just use a very small amount of matte taupe into the centre of the crease of your eye, that makes such a difference. It's quite it's quite extraordinary. And sometimes I even shock myself when I'm doing somebodies makeup. We both go back. It's emotional.

[00:12:14] It is. And I think also I mean, when we started wearing makeup in our teens. We wanted to look older, didn't we? We wanted to look more grown up. So we were that  crazy.

[00:12:24] You know, when we were doing things to make us look older.

[00:12:26] If we don't change them, look, you know, we're not doing our current faces any justice, are we?

[00:12:34] Not at all. And I think this is the issue that, you know. If you don't change the way that you have used, make it. If you haven't changed your makeup in the last, say, 10 years, then you're not really doing your face justice. You know, we need to start thinking in terms of, like I said, just using contour powders and showing off your cheekbones and getting your colours right. You know, I mean, the colours are really important. The amount of people who at the minute, you know, the biggest thing I wish I could get hold of Theresa May. You're listening, Theresa. I'm available. She's my MP. So if  you pay me a visit? Well, if you see her, just say Jo- wants to see her. Well next time I'm in  Waitrose I'll Look out for her. Perfect. Do that. Just take her to one side one side. You might end up with a black eye yourself, but I don't think so. I don't think she is. No, I don't think she is aggressive in the slightest. She might have a few words for Boris, but never mind. The main thing is that you know that like this dark lipstick that when you've got thinning lips as you get older, you you know, I certainly know my lips seem to have just disappeared. So, you know, there are certain tricks that you can use. But one of the most important things is don't use really deep pink lipstick or red on thinning, ageing lips. It just doesn't work. You know, and like I said, what worked for us when we were kids just doesn't work anymore. So, you know, you've got to really look at that. And and and like I said, revisit your face and remember, you know, makeups an expression of who you are, not who you were.

[00:14:17] You said something earlier, which I thought was a lovely phrase, that great makeup can reclaim you. I love that. You mentioned that earlier.

[00:14:26] Yeah, well, it's true, isn't it? You know, I mean, the thing is that all of the things that we used to do when we were kids, it was it it was then we could get away with it. And as you rightly say, and you know, when we were younger, we used to put makeup on to try and look older. And and I think a lot of the time now, you know, my daughter is twenty three and she's 24 now. How did that happen? But she you know, she has her look and, you know, the Love Island kind of eyebrows and things like that. We've all gone through the gimmicks of makeup. And, you know, when we were kids, you know, it was teal eyeshadow and they're, you know, orange blusher and all these things that we developed basically to try to get people to buy another range of makeup. You'd have the spring colours and then the summer colours and then the autumn colours to try and make you buy so much stuff. And the tragedy is certainly at our age the more things that you buy. You know, when people come to my workshops or master classes, certainly if it's a one to one, I have a kind of end of the session where I go through people's makeup bags and say, right, you know, this is give that to someone you hate. And you know, and again, at that point, you have got to be brutal because great things happen that are very, very small makeup bag.

[00:16:00] You shouldn't have lots and lots of products, but you should have the right product and you should have the right colours that work for you. And I you know, I don't advocate lots and lots of colours. You're either one range or you're another range. And once you master that, because again, if if you start, it's like with skincare, you know, if people start to branch out onto loads and loads of stuff. I had somebody here on Friday who she literally trotted her makeup in , you know, and then went back and brought some more in. And it was quite sad because she had three different colours of touche eclat that she'd been sold. She'd had all these different palettes of, you know, 10 eye shadows and that she'd bought at great expense. And not one of the colours in the palette was right for it. And it felt awful. But, you know, I said, you really just got to ditch it. You've got to be brutal. Get rid of it all and start again and do it from a minimal point of view. You know, you needed certain colours, eyes, cheeks and lips matching and, you know, and very little foundation and no makeup. You know, these brushes and C.C. creams and b b creams and Double d creams. I mean, what is going on? Primers and serums. And you could go on for ever.

[00:17:25] And I think my biggest, biggest message is keep it simple. Keep it real. That you can do it and you can actually achieve it because buying this product, we're just feeding into the cosmetic companies greed and you know, they're more than happy for you to go on buying four different colours of touche eclat.

[00:17:47] But it's not going to give you the look that you want. It will never, ever do that. So it's very important that we are realistic about what what it is that we need. And I'm probably a bit of an anarchist. As regards makeup, that's somebody called me.  It's good they call you something isn't it. As long as they are talking about you. That's still good.

[00:18:14] Maybe urban guerrilla of the cosmetic industry . You can be the expert in the Cape or something like that.

[00:18:22] Absolutely. I'd buy a cape and be a crusader. So, you have to be heather and berries and or peaches and cream. But with the new products that are out there  I mean,  I get sent them to review and I'm very happy to review them, I like  playing with pots of stuff. But do we need to look at new formulations that are especially developed for mature or does the standard make up range still work for us?

[00:18:48] Well, again, I think, you know, I mean, there are so many different products that have been brought out onto the market all the time. And makeup is makeup. You know, there are certain ones that that are devised or designed around more mature skin. And, you know, that's all very well and good. And some of the things are really great. I'm sure that you've, you know, had things that you think are absolutely marvellous and then other things that, you know, in your heart are just a gimmick. It's whether, it's miss or miracle isn't net. You've got to kind of really use your common sense. And by the time we've got to 50 and certainly now that I'm 60, I have got a large amount of common sense. I can see through, you know, sales patter and I can see through the gimmicks that people put out. And the cosmetic industry is is world renowned for doing that. You know, there's always something incredible that's going to do everything that you wanted to do. But the most important thing is, like I said and what I do, because I think what I'm doing is bridging the gap in the makeup industry and certainly in the beauty industry, because it again, where do you go for honest advice? And this is the thing. You know, there's usually an angle, too. And, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm filming. As I explained to you, I'm going to be filming very soon and I'm going to do an online makeup course which people will have to pay for.

[00:20:25] So that's fine. But I'm not apologising for that. I think our age group would definitely pay to be taught how to use makeup. I don't use and I am certainly no supermodel, you know. I mean, at the end of the day, I think it's it's very difficult. Sometimes I look at the things that are on YouTube and I look at the things that are on Instagram and whatever else. And 90 percent of the women that are showing you these miraculous things, they're actually beautiful anyway, you know, so I'm not talking to the women that haven't got challenges, you know, aren't talking to the women who the people that come to me, you know, have got all of a sudden the their eyes, they are thinking in terms of, do I get an eye lift? Well, no. You can use makeup. It's it can have exactly the same effect without the dramatic cost, not only for your purse, but also, in my opinion, to you, to your face. You know, I had a melanoma in my eye and I had to get it cut out. And I've never been more terrified of anything in my life. And I can remember thinking, if women do this and pay for it just to get an eye lift, then that's wrong. You know, I mean, the makeup is it's so miraculous if it's used in the right way. And so that's that's what I'm trying to tell people.

[00:21:50] You don't have to be a Botox junkee. You don't have to go and get you know, I know you don't have to do surgery. You just need to really just look like yourself and then and embrace the way you look, because it's it's fine. You know, it's OK. We're none of us the 20 anymore. And that's good. You know, we can applaud that. And the fact that a lot of my friends have made it to this age. So, you know, at the end of the day, it's about embracing what you've got. I've earned my lines, crow's feet, you know, laughter lines. They to me, they're equal to a life well lived where I got, you know, the. Cause I've got heavy lids, I've got all of those things, and it would be very easy to get depressed about it, especially if you've been incredibly beautiful and then all of a sudden things start. As my mother would say, to drop off. But I think, you know, you've got to really just stop being positive about yourself. When I put my makeup on, you know, my spirits rise. I feel confident and I feel able to kind of, you know, feel the world. And it is quite miraculous. I feel better about myself. You know, I've got confidence and I'm back in the room. I'm 60, but that's fine. And then usually people saying you look you look really radiant today. Jo and I say, yes.

[00:23:20] And also, I live in a very little village in the middle of the peak district. So a lot of the time I walk around with no makeup on. And then when I do put it on, everybody is kind of taken aback. Yeah, in a good way and a good way.

[00:23:34] I mean, I mean, I never go out without makeup. That's just me. And I was reminded by our friend very recently and we've been friends since we were in our 20s. And her daughter wanted to go out somewhere in a hurry. And she said, oh, hang on, I just got to put my mascara and lipstick on. Why is that? Because, Ceri, I had said to her when I was like 24 years old or something. We were going somewhere and she was going to rush out without makeup and had it only takes five minutes to put this on. You'll feel better about yourself all day. And since then she's never left the house without mascara. She said just said that I can't because she knows that she would be like the wrath of Ceri. No, I can't say to Ceri that I left the house without my mascara on. I don't even remember that conversation? But she said she thinks that every time she picks up her mascara brush. That's the way to do it.

[00:24:27] Well, it's probably helped her through a life in the fact that she does probably realise that when she puts mascara on, all of a sudden her eyes come alive. You know, speaking as one who is like albino ish without makeup on, because I  always remember when I was about, I don't know, 13, 14 discovering mascara. And it was a revelation. And I think that's when I fell in love with makeup, because I again, my mother said, I think our Jo-Anne's going to be very plain. Oh, that's awful! I know. Because even as a child, I was I've got white eyelashes, white eyebrows. And I'm, you know, kind of a very, very, you know, pasty faced person. So I suppose that's why I fell in love with makeup, because I realized the power of makeup even around about 15. But, you know, then I kind of reached my 20s and then we do all that kind of multicoloured stuff. And, you know, I mean, I used to go out and make something of Star Trek when I was 20, 22. And I can remember doing, you know, different makeup on, you know, Whitney Houston, when we all used to wear like try and get as many colours on your lids as we possibly could. But, you know, that was then and it was great fun. But this is now.

[00:25:48] And, you know,  I think the biggest thing is trying to release ourselves from the gimmicks of what makeup was. And I think the game changes when you're 50, it really does. I don't want to say that you can't wear, you know, lots of makeup. Some people feel perfectly fine wearing large amounts of makeup. And, you know, I've just recently had the biggest one of the biggest tasks with the most lovely woman. But she had been wearing so much foundation for so long and she'd never changed her makeup for 30 years. And so and it was quite dramatic. You know, black eyeliner. It was very dramatic. And it she knew that she needed to change, but she really didn't have the confidence to actually let go. And and so obviously, she was going in still buying all of this stuff and the things that she was sold. Honestly, Ceri, don't go and see this person, this consultant, because she must have just thought she must be wearing a bottle of, you know, I wont name. foundation a week. And the problem was that underneath that, she actually has got the most beautiful skin and beautiful face. But this was a mask that she'd actually been using. And she knew she needed to change, but she did know where to go.

[00:27:25] And there isn't anywhere. So that that's where we come in with the makeup training company. Look there. Well, it's a fact. And, you know, that's why I started really, it was a mission. That's why I wrote the book initially. And so now hopefully, you know, we'll get the online course along. So my in my head, there'll be an online course. There'll be a book that people can read either hard copy or an e-book and then a makeup kit. And it's picking those colours again. And as you know, I have it in two colour schemes. So it's very, very simple to follow.

[00:28:03] Why two colour schemes?

[00:28:05] Well, again, it's the simplicity of it, really. And strangely enough, I did start you know, I realised that I needed to get a a range of makeup that makes sense to people, you know, that actually they can understand. So, you know, when you stop going into delving into, you know, all of the gimmicks that the companies put out, like I said, all these different season colours and everything else. People just want, you know, something a routine that is minimal. that's effortless, that they can actually go to and apply and they know immediately they're going to look brilliant. And so consequently, the main thing that I designed back then. Absolutely 100 percent I know it works now is if you've got blue eyes. The priority is to bring out the colour of your eyes. It's nothing to do with the outfit that you're wearing, because to me, with a make up range. The colours that you wear. Somebody was asking me, is it Colour Me Beautiful or something? No, it's not really. It's just being sensible about it. If you've got blue eyes, then if you use peach above the lashes, it brings out the blue in your eyes. So you use that. So it's peach above the lashes then bronzes, brown's creams, that kind of stuff. So whatever you choose on your eyes, you follow through  on your cheeks and on your lips.

[00:29:36] So, you know, again, everybody needs to show off the cheekbones. Not like the Mars Bar. Look, I'm talking about, you know, just gently contouring your face. And there is a trick trick to that as well, which is, you know, you take it from the ear and push forward towards your nose. When we were kids, everybody used to just brush it back the way and then you get that big clump at the front of your face. Well, that's. We can't do that now. So you have to turn your face. It's very difficult to explain it without showing you. But anyway. So contouring your face and then a pop of like a coral blush and then a peachy, you know, soft, peachy coral lipstick. And once you actually as soon as you get to that final end where you put the lipstick on, it's like a revelation. Everybody is like, oh, my God, look at that. That's amazing. And then, you know, and the priority again is that you're able to do it yourself. When people come to me for a one to one, for instance, I do half of these and they do the other half, which is, you know, is a great way of doing it. If I do groups, it's great because everybody can see the colours being put on. And then, you know, you've got Heathers and Berries, which now if you've got green eyes, if you yet again back in the day we all used to put green eye shadow on.

[00:30:59] Well, if you think about it, if you're trying to show off an emerald, you'd never put it on a green background. So, you know, that doesn't work. So you need to wear something that completely contrasts with the green of your eyes. In which case you're talking about Heathers. No, I'm not talking about Plum here, because Plum has red in it. It has to be like a very soft heathers on your eyes and and and a kind of pink, shimmery pink above the lashes. That's the only place you put glitter. We have got to stop wearing any kind of glitter on the face or shimmer because shimmer highlights wrinkles. Remember that, if nothing else. So don't you know that above the lashes is a highlight? That's fine. So and then you follow through with the kind of contour again in more or less like a deep, plummy kind of contour  powder and then a pink blush. Sometimes I use a one from clinic which looks absolutely, massively hugely bright pink. But when you put it on, it's amazing. It's actually really beautiful. And then a very soft pink lipstick. So, you know, again, eyes, cheeks and lips or matching.

[00:32:14] If you've got brown eyes, you know, the world is your hamster. You can get away with most things, to be quite frank. But I think at that point you've got to start looking at the colour of your skin. Normally with brown eyes, you'll either be more of a sallow skin or, you know, Asian, a woman of colour. That kind of thing. So and oriental, definitely.

[00:32:36] Because, we've got Jenny who are using the book, and Lauren who I use in the book, who Jenny's Chinese. So we used because she's got more of a sallow skin. They work beautifully because obviously they're just give back colour to a face. Yeah. And again, simplifying it down to what works for you and then sticking to it.

[00:33:02] And typically, if you were to say take say the peaches and cream makeup look, how many products would you expect somebody to have to buy to do that?

[00:33:13] Well, first of all, you need  in the technique altogether, there are nine steps. So first of all, you've got to concealer stick, which you need as to cover up any redness, any broken beans. I've got broken veins at the front of my face.

[00:33:31] So you use and I used just bog standard Rimmel concealer stick, which works for me. Also, you need to use it as an eyeshadow base, although there are some really good ones, they usually really expensive and probably not worth paying for. I just use Rimmel concealer stick , Touche Eclat is a great thing to actually cover up any dark shadows and the smallest amount of foundation that you can possibly get away with and use it from the back of your hand and use your fingertip to actually press it on your face.

[00:34:04] No brushes are sponges because then you're going to get this kind of heavy makeup thing and makeup again can really highlight wrinkles. I'm sure you've seen it where people have had far too much foundation on and you can see it immediately because it just sinks into the lines. So you're just using it to kind of create a canvas, really? And then we need eyebrows are absolutely essential as we get older, as you and I both know, and it's again, getting that eyebrow shape is hugely important. So there are many different products, but I personally just use an eyebrow pencil and then use the brush to brush it out. And that works brilliantly well. Some people there are lots and lots of different eyebrow products out there now. The realisation that eyebrows are essential to your final look is pretty clear. See? And then you need really a quad. I would say four eye colours, one above the rushes, one below the brow and much taupe, which is absolutely essential to anybody which goes and it has to be matt. I didn't put my glasses on properly the other day and I was put my eye make up on , put the shimmer and even I was shocked. Oh, my God. The wrinkles. So definitely has to be matt. And you put that into the into the center of the eye, into the socket of the eye, and then brush it up to the brow and decide if you do nothing else.

[00:35:37] That is a really good thing to do. Just use the concealer effect as a base and then just brush that into the centre of the eye. Because we all need that definition, because as you get older, you know, we lose the definition in our eyes and then and then a bronzer. If you were going to get anything at all, then. But again, it has to be a matt no shimmer bronzer and not too orange either. Studio 10 do a really good one and Rimmel do a good one. It just needs to be used as a contour powder on you temples from your ear towards your nose, a little bit on your chin and a little bit on your nose. And that's the thing that gives you your face definition. And then a blush and lipstick. That's it. Mascara, please, yourself. You know, mascara is mascara. I don't know how people get too excited about mascara. I do particularly like a violet mascara from a YSL. They're all they do. And it has to be violet, not the plum. The plum makes you look as if you'd been bashed in the eye. The violet just is absolutely really pretty. But again, then that's it. Just keep to that. That's that's as much as you need. So it's kind of nine steps, nine products. That's it.

[00:36:58] And how long, if you're doing on yourself, should that take?

[00:37:03] If I'm doing it, say I'm doing some kind of talk and I know that people are going to be scrutinising my face and kind of looking for any anything wrong. She calls herself a makeup artist. Look at that. And then I will take probably about half an hour. If I'm just literally going out the shops or whatever, I can do my makeup in five minutes. If it's if it's more than that, my life, which is not worth while, my husband will be going off, for God's sake.

[00:37:37] When you know how to do it, it shouldn't take that long.

[00:37:41] No, it shouldn't at all. And I think if it does take I mean, if I'm really going for it, then I'll probably take, like I said, 20 minutes . But if if if I'm just literally getting ready to go to the pub or go shopping or something, then definitely five minutes. It takes time to get to that because obviously, you know, you need to start playing with Julia, who have just been explaining about it. I mean, this is a massive transition in her makeup. It's you know, it's taken it from the extreme to, you know, this minimal amount. And believe it or not, that that's difficult when you've been it's like anything if you've been doing the same thing for 30 years and then somebody says, actually, don't do that, do this. It's going to take a little while to start rethinking your regime and how you actually use it. But again, it just it works. And so as time goes on, I've got so many clients that come back to me and and, you know, see the most beautiful things to me, which is which is great, because at the end of the day, it can change your life. It's not just makeup, this stuff. You know, it make it how you feel about yourself, how you present yourself. The confidence that it gives you. Because, you know, we've all gone through. Like I said once more with feeling as we get older, we've all gone through life's challenges, haven't we? You know, we've all had to deal with. I'm trying not to swear because I don't know exactly. You know, well, you know, we've all had to deal with the things that go wrong in our lives. And at the end of the day, it chips away at you. And a lot of people that come to me, you know, I've had people that have come to me that got divorced.

[00:39:41] Their husbands run off with a younger model. You know, that old that old story or they've had bereavement in their lives. And, you know, or had illness. And, you know, to be honest with you, I've had all of them bot not actually gone through with the divorce. We got back together. But I you know, I mean, I've had emotional challenges, they really take a toll on you. And when things go wrong and things can happen in your life, it can actually affect how you feel about yourself. And that's wrong because, you know, we are all you know, we've all got that that young girl inside of us suddenly. You know, the carefree, you know, don't get going I may swear again. I don't give a shit. You know, the person who is a natural, carefree girl completely, completely at ease with yourself and able to cope with life. And I think this one of that one of the things that does happen, you know, not want to be too psychologically drawn into this, but is that your confidence is chipped and and, you know, the menopause. All of these things, your hormone imbalances, everything. It just it just kind of grab a hold of you. But we do have to stop all of that. And I think makeup does really play a role in how you feel about yourself. You know, I'm massively overweight. I've got about three strands of hair. It seems to have come off my head and come out in my chin. You know, there are certain things that I would love to change about myself. There are you know, I've had you know, this is the thing, but I'm absolutely fine.

[00:41:29] I put my makeup on and I know I look absolutely fine. And I can go out there and face the world. And I think for anybody who's listening to this, I you know, I am that soldier. We are those soldiers. We all feel like that, you know, anxiety grabs hold of you. You know, you start to lose belief in yourself. There are certain things that happen in your life that do that.

[00:41:54] But get a great,  (I was going to swear again) Get a great set of makeup. Change the way you look. Not in a bad way. Just emphasise the beauty that is there because it is that it's in every single one of us. We just need to really come to terms with how things are changing because we're all in the same boat.

[00:42:19] You know, we all you know what? You know, as time goes on, these are the things that we're all facing. But, you know, like I said once more, we're feeling a lot of my friends haven't made it to 61. So let's not worry about, you know, don't sweat the small stuff. Just embrace what you what you are.

[00:42:38] Highlight the beauty that is there, because it is. And you know, and and, you know, again, just kind of celebrate your crow's feet in your life. Laughter lines. You know, like I said, it's a life well lived.

[00:42:53] Absolutely. So would you say those would be your three tips. . To embrace highlights and celebrate.

[00:43:01] Yes. Embrace, highlight and celebrate. That's a good way to put it. I like that. That's why you're good at what you do, because you can put these words in.  No, I think that's a really good thing to put forward. And because, you know, again, once more, with feeling as we get older, it's a lot of women do feel and I'm talking. If you're feeling like that, whoever is listening to this, if there's anybody listening, you were there. Just start celebrating the fact that, you know, we're all beautiful and try to start thinking in terms of celebrating the fact that we are beautiful and highlight the best bets, the colour of your eyes, the shape of your face, the contour of your face, and never let your make up walk into a room before you do. If you're wearing too much makeup, you're masking yourself. And that's that's wrong. And if you haven't changed your makeup in the last ten years, start thinking about it because it doesn't suit you anymore. There are things out there and you need to start really rethinking. So if I was going to send a message, I would probably be that.

[00:44:08] So if people wanted to get in touch with you or find out about more more about what you do and your makeup techniques, how would they go about it?

[00:44:17] Well, I've got hoping that you'll put any kind of link, you know, if they want to contact me, that obviously there's the makeup training company website. And that does actually have, you know, training courses that I do, because obviously I do public ones, which, you know, we do. I'm doing one at HawCross Hall on Saturday. I do private one to ones. And I do private groups. I do corporate training. And I'm also doing some makeup courses for younger beauty therapists and beauty professionals that again, need to be taught how to address older skin because, you know, it's all great for a 23 year old, but to start looking. But if they start putting the makeup that they wear on me, I'm going to look ridiculous. So it's again, it's retraining the trainers, if you like. But in the grand scheme of things that we do, all of these things, hopefully in January next year, we'll get the online course available. And at that point, like I said, hoping that that will get more of the kind of coverage I want to be on the Lorraine show, I really fancy Lorraine.

[00:45:44] But I haven't been on her show, but I've met quite a few times and she's been lovely every single time.

[00:45:50] She she is lovely, I can say I did do Denise Robertson, who was on this morning, who unfortunately died, she's from Sunderland where I'm from. And I remember she came to me just to get some tips. And she actually did write a lovely piece to put on the back of my book. Yeah. With your book, Jo, because you've mentioned your book, but you haven't thought of what it's called or where we can find it.  It's called The Beautiful Truth Makeup Made Easy. I'm not I don't sell it on online, actually. But if anybody wants to contact me, certainly they can that I can get one sent out. No problem whatsoever. And and, you know, generally, if people want to get in touch with me, they can get in touch with me through the website. I'm also on Instagram, Facebook Linkedin all of the above. And and, you know, get in touch. Happy to talk to anybody about anything. It's a mission that we're on. Hopefully we'll get the make up set. Hopefully we'll get the online academy going in or make up course going in January. But if anybody wants to come along  to a one to one. Anyway, it's all out there. I'm here and ready to talk to anybody who needs me. That's for sure.

[00:47:17] Well, thank you so much for taking the time out today, sharing your tips and talking about how makeup can really, as you said, help us to see that great makeup, can help us to reclaim ourselves. And it shouldn't take that long or too many products. We're not looking at a massive investment either in terms of cost or time, are we?

[00:47:34] No, we're not. No, we're not. And, you know, the priority is keep the faith because it's all out there. All you've got to do is, you know, is learn how. And I suppose that's where we are bridging the gap in the makeup industry and the beauty industry as a whole. And don't spend too much. You just need to get the right product and remember it. It's the most powerful weapon, you know, to make you feel great.

[00:48:02] And if there's anybody feeling wretched out that you're not alone, you know, and it might not take might just take five, five, five minutes and nine products, just to give you that lift, it only has to be temporary, put a smile on your face and I guess walk out the door. Put that spring in your step, doesn't it really?

[00:48:18] Absolutely. It can change your life. Lots of people. And I'm not saying that in a you know, in a flippant way, because people have actually come back to me and said it has changed their life. And that is the reason why I continue to do what I do to hopefully inspire and give that knowledge out there, which is very important to all women. We've we've done our bit for King and Country. It's our time now.

[00:48:46] But I actually couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll put all the links and details on the show notes that go along with this podcast. And thank you for doing this today. You know, maybe you can join us again with some some more tips, and especially when your you know, your course is online and available and and talk about that.

[00:49:08] Absolutely. That would be lovely, Ceri. It's lovely to speak to you. Great to talk to somebody who knows what I'm talking about. Thank you so much, Joe. Okay. All right. No worries. OK.

[00:49:23] Thank you for joining us today. Please do subscribe and also send the link to friends and be part of the pro age conversation. Life really is meant to be fabulous at every age, but especially after 50.