0:12

Hello, and welcome to a very special

0:14

episode of Faith Adjacent. I'm your host

0:16

and resident Bible scholar, Erin Moon, and

0:18

joining me as always, it's Jamie V.

0:20

Golden. This might be my favorite thing

0:23

we've ever talked about. Oh my gosh.

0:25

For today's episode, we're going to be

0:27

deep diving the secular and spiritual implications

0:30

of the 2023 pop

0:32

culture juggernaut Barbie.

0:34

But before you do that, you guys listen, have

0:36

you ever thought, I want to have a Barbie

0:38

party like Barbie had in her dream house where

0:40

we dance with Simu Liu? Well, you can have

0:42

that in your own life. In June, when we

0:44

go on the road, the PMG is having a

0:47

live show for the pop cast. In June, we're

0:49

coming to a town near you. And by town

0:51

near you, I mean, you know, like a fun

0:53

weekend trip. On Friday, June 21st, we'll be in

0:55

Dallas at Gillies Dallas. And then the very next

0:57

day on Saturday, June 22nd, we'll be in Chicago

0:59

at the Vic Theater. You

1:02

can go grab tickets at knoxandjamie.com flash

1:04

live. It's a two hours

1:07

of absolute delightful idiocy. Erin

1:09

and I and Knox will be on stage. Evan

1:12

will be there. It's going to be a great

1:14

hang. Plus, if you'd like to come, but none

1:16

of your friends or loved ones like us, which

1:18

that's their issue, not yours. We

1:20

have a great special solo travelers meetup in

1:23

both cities hosted by Indy Adams on our

1:25

team. So don't let the losers

1:27

in your life prevent you from having a super

1:29

great time. Learn more about the podcast live again,

1:31

by clicking the link in the show notes or

1:33

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assumes fine as mean. It

2:55

isn't as the movie that a

2:57

look great on Imax screen it

2:59

means exciting for Mrs. Fields I

3:01

fear in every with her an

3:04

average price. Indices.

3:10

And see seriousness to. Death

3:13

with Film for I max me. Get.

3:16

Tickets to experience due in part to

3:18

Now and I Max is exclusive Expanded

3:20

aspect ratio. See. Me: I don't

3:23

remember the last time we've done a

3:25

just You and Me Up As I

3:27

know isn't some for patreon for this

3:29

seminary yet It but never that we'd

3:31

done one and a long time. It's

3:33

ladies, my, If Barbie lands, it's Barbie.

3:35

My I Barbie. I've already on the

3:37

find. This is what we're talking about.

3:39

Barbie the movie. So if you don't

3:41

know which. I I was like use

3:44

comment on her Instagram as if this Barbie

3:46

movie as new information. The I'd assume that

3:48

if you have not heard of Barbie you

3:50

also have not heard about Instagram Them. But

3:52

street fair affairs, but it's not we would love

3:54

to hear from you. just let us know what

3:56

your thoughts are. But Barbie twenty twenty three came

3:58

out in the summer to say. comedy film

4:00

directed by Greta Gerwig from a screenplay she

4:02

wrote with Noah Baumbach. It's based

4:05

on, of course, the famous doll

4:07

made by Mattel. It is the first

4:10

live-action Barbie film after lots of computer-animated

4:12

films. It starts Margot Robbie, who also

4:14

brought this movie to life as the

4:17

producer, as the title character. And Ryan

4:19

Gosling is, of course, Ken. And it

4:21

follows them on a journey of self-discovery

4:23

through both Barbie Land and the real

4:26

world following. Of course, as all of

4:28

us have, an existential crisis. It has

4:30

commentary on the patriarchy, the effects of

4:33

feminism. The supporting cast includes America

4:35

Ferrer, Michael Cera, Kate McKinnon, Issa Rae,

4:37

Rhea Perlman, and of course Will Farrell.

4:40

It came out in July. Let's talk

4:42

about it. Did you see it in

4:44

the theater? I did. I saw it

4:47

actually thrice in the theater.

4:49

Thrice? Thrice. The only

4:51

movie I have seen more in the

4:53

theater was Bridesmaids. How many of

4:55

you saw it in the movie Bridesmaids? I

4:57

saw Bridesmaids in the theater five times. Five

4:59

times. Who was bringing you back every time?

5:02

I loved that movie. I loved that movie.

5:04

I saw Titanic seven times. Oh my gosh.

5:06

Because listen, to be fair, I was in

5:08

college and had a lot of $5 Tuesday

5:10

that I could afford. I was just throwing

5:15

down 20s and being like, let's go. I did

5:17

love Titanic. And Titanic is a long movie to

5:20

see in the theater. It's a very long movie.

5:22

You know, I got broken up with after Titanic.

5:25

That was when the priest broke up with me. That's when

5:27

the priest figured out. I would also not keep her on

5:29

the door. Yeah. We need to let her go. I

5:34

saw this once in the

5:36

theater. I saw it opening night. I did wear

5:38

pink. It was magical in every way for me.

5:42

I grew up liking

5:44

Barbies, but I was not. I was

5:47

a Star Wars sci-fi fan. I loved

5:50

fantasy, Narnia, Lord of the Rings.

5:52

I love those

5:54

kinds of things, but I liked Barbie a lot. I

5:56

owned three Barbies. That was all my parents. They

5:58

were like, that's it. One of them was used.

6:02

I treated her badly. I feel bad about that. I

6:04

did treat her. You had a weird Barbie. I had

6:06

a weird Barbie. I did cut her hair and I

6:08

did separate her head from her body and buried them

6:10

in separate places in the yard. A

6:12

little dark, a little dark for a world, Jamie.

6:14

A little bit. Were you a Barbie fan?

6:17

Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Dream house. You

6:19

had a dream house. No, I did not have a dream

6:21

house. Oh, absolutely not. No. I did

6:23

have friends who had the dream house. I had friends who had the

6:25

car. I was just a doll and

6:27

clothes. We were a doll and clothes kind of

6:29

family. Got it. We were not a dream house,

6:31

car. Definitely not like

6:33

the big car that you could actually drive. Oh,

6:35

I can't even imagine. Yeah, that's a whole other

6:37

level of wealth or a level

6:40

of opulence, I guess, that Andy and Gwen were

6:42

not interested in. No, they're not giving you that.

6:44

No, my friend Kylie Wardis had the car and

6:46

that was- That she drove in? Oh, that she

6:48

drove in and I was too big for the

6:50

car, but I still forced myself in there. And

6:54

that's how diet culture began. Thanks a lot, Barbie. Thanks

6:56

a lot, Barbie. Well,

6:58

let's talk about this movie. So obviously we talked,

7:00

you mentioned at the top that it was a

7:02

juggernaut. It really was. 88%

7:05

on Rotten Tomatoes, which

7:07

surprises me. I

7:10

actually think it should be higher. I think it should too.

7:12

Let me preface this at the top. You're

7:14

not going to talk to me. No one's going to

7:16

talk to me about this movie being trash. And

7:19

I'm going to convince you the ways that you think it's trash,

7:21

I'm going to convince you it's not. Okay,

7:23

I like that. Right? So I'm

7:25

coming in hot. My critics consensus was that

7:27

Barbie is a visually dazzling comedy whose meta

7:29

humor is smartly complemented by subversive storytelling.

7:32

Now its budget for production

7:34

was 145 million, which

7:36

actually in these days for a movie that five

7:38

is actually pretty low. Well,

7:40

I think a lot of that had

7:42

to do with like the practicality of

7:45

the effects. Like almost none of it

7:47

was blue screen, green screen. That's right.

7:50

Very Little CGI in this film. And There

7:52

was the marketing budget was actually more than

7:54

the production budget of the film. And You

7:56

felt it. Listen, you could not, that's why

7:58

I would be so. Impressed if you didn't

8:01

know what Barbie was as far as the

8:03

movie ghost because it was everywhere and it

8:05

was worth it. It paid off that investment.

8:07

a three hundred million dollars in the film

8:10

or it made one point four four, four

8:12

billion dollars. It was not only the highest

8:14

grossing film of the year, it is the

8:16

highest grossing comedy of all time, and it

8:19

is the fourteenth highest grossing film. In.

8:21

His friends saying in history like and

8:23

all the other like movies above it

8:25

have been out for like years. nephrite

8:28

were negligent about inflation and all getting

8:30

a fuss and it was nominated for

8:32

eight Academy Awards. We are honesty we

8:34

are works recording this on. International

8:37

Women's Day, We are now

8:39

at. Which seems apropos around but we also

8:41

recording that before the oscars. Now I will

8:43

say my prediction so you'll know if I

8:46

was right or not. When you have to

8:48

this episode I think Barbie is gonna for

8:50

sure when one. Probably

8:53

to oh maybe three. you know would you

8:55

have a D U H one? it is

8:57

going to Went when Best original song for

8:59

what was I made were I don't say

9:01

that with Cop and Hussey it off the

9:04

front by the little by little Billy Anthony

9:06

a little guy and then I would like

9:08

to win best costume design but it is

9:10

a tough competition but I think it probably

9:12

will win Coffin divine that what they did

9:15

hear was really impressive and then my secret

9:17

hope. Is. That it wins. Best adapted screenplay

9:19

I hope to I regret and know at

9:21

but the rest his leg. It's the year

9:23

of Oppenheimer. And the other Barbie

9:25

movie that came out last year. poor

9:28

things on the other. To be fair,

9:30

Sam on it did pretty well. It's

9:32

a it's a beloved film by many.

9:34

Let's talk about some of the players

9:36

I'm obviously you have at director and

9:38

a screenwriter Credit Gerwig. I'm Grata is

9:41

one of my favorite directors to you

9:43

Are you a grant of I'm A?

9:45

He'd run a fan? Yeah well what

9:47

was your like? First entrance into Grata

9:49

credit for me was. Probably. I

9:52

mean. It was I like

9:54

Frances ha like outfit love frame for

9:56

thought. She wrote ah in twenty twelve

9:58

but it is for certain. The bird.

10:00

Yeah, honey, seventy No question. which was

10:02

I like wrote it on my heart.

10:04

Yeah, as I think that was really

10:06

when I mean I will. I was

10:08

like peripherally aware of her. yes before

10:10

Lady Bird with rinses highlight some of

10:12

her in the South, But because it

10:14

was just very like she just has

10:16

that unhinged theater kid like intense theater

10:18

kid energy that I am drawn to.

10:20

Let your an insane person who has

10:23

spent a lot of time learning how

10:25

to tap dance and that just speaks

10:27

to me like a cross. Avoid: Well

10:29

and right Amir Degrees. Unite. Yeah exactly

10:31

I am because to the and

10:33

so I sushi I've always writer

10:35

but Ladybird was really what solidified

10:37

of for me And then I'm

10:39

but then so she obvious she

10:42

directed and then as she wrote

10:44

the screenplay with her partner know

10:46

bomb back I'm Liz. Listen at

10:48

the debt. The way that the

10:50

two of them they wrote this during covered. Ah,

10:53

During Lock Down in their of

10:55

what I seem to the penthouse

10:57

apartment now I don't know that's

10:59

a Brooklyn brag that exactly. And

11:01

then you have Margot Robbie. Like

11:03

Jimmy mentioned, she also starred and

11:05

produced our with her husband Tom

11:07

accurately their production company Lucky Chap.

11:09

Ah, my favorite story about this

11:12

is that out when they went

11:14

into pitch. This. Movie or

11:16

that she like. Pitched it

11:18

and compared it to. Jurassic Park

11:20

and Steven Spielberg and that, yeah,

11:22

she was like, you know, As

11:25

two years when they take big risks.

11:28

They. End up with movies like Jurassic

11:30

Park and Steven Spielberg and she's like so

11:32

you can have. Drastic. Park Steven

11:34

Spielberg. And now you can have kirby

11:36

and credit or what he said i'm not meaning

11:39

she was like it for shield the rights that

11:41

in the rights cases maybe had been in the

11:43

work for a long time. Ah it was. Must

11:45

be a live action sat with was it was

11:47

originally going to be. Or Amy Schumer.

11:49

Yeah, I've heard I heard in Hathaway and

11:52

a Half away Without. So Amy Schumer left

11:54

the project. Anne Hathaway came in garbage, out

11:56

turned it down at the right choice. Ah,

11:58

and the Margot Robbie with like. Okay, well.

12:00

I. I. Mean I guess Me: yeah

12:02

like I give me and she's having a meeting

12:05

a said it'll make a billion dollars and and

12:07

she lives she did not know that so guy

12:09

that's the way to do it you have come

12:11

in comp and yeah and listen it put it

12:13

paid off it was my is it make a

12:15

billion dollars more I'm also gonna mention as of

12:18

power player here Mattel. Ah, Yes,

12:20

I think that if they

12:22

took a risk. They

12:24

to if if they had not trusted Grata

12:26

and Margot in this way I think this

12:28

movie would have had. It's nice, kept at

12:31

right under from right underneath it in it's

12:33

I mean I think if they had had

12:35

a problem with some of the ways that

12:37

they're corporation has been portrayed, if they had

12:40

had a problem, if they've had a sense

12:42

of humor about you know there's their logo

12:44

covering up. Is there a saying Amref? or

12:46

at one point right like that It could

12:49

have really really. Like. Taken.

12:51

The sting added some of this and it

12:53

just would not have been as power of

12:55

know our I have a lot of I

12:57

don't want to say like I have respect

12:59

for a corporation or I gotta one that

13:01

can be I don't get it. Was not

13:03

going to say that they're brave that I

13:06

do think it's just a little bit a

13:08

ball said to put themselves out there and

13:10

the way that they did yes A And

13:12

you have to really trust a script Which

13:14

a script that is really coming for you

13:16

pretty hard. Yes Use of confidence and who

13:18

you are to you and you go Listen

13:20

to the best companies and. We see this

13:22

now. I think that's part of what has

13:24

allowed a company like Mattel to be at

13:26

ease with this seeing wasn't going to be

13:28

honest duolingo. And when lingo being

13:31

so chaotic on the internet windies. That

13:33

being said, I had Oreo. Being so chaotic

13:35

is going foot. These companies have really thrived

13:37

because of leaning into the humor. Yeah, they

13:40

are yes and that it benefited mattel an

13:42

elaborate a little absolutely. I'd say

13:44

one thing about this was written by

13:46

Grata A and Noah and what's interesting

13:49

about that is. That. For

13:51

contacts grad, I also did Little Women

13:53

a remake that no one thought. With

13:56

change. Our hearts about one on a writer's.

13:59

and a dead I was thinking

14:01

about this, and Greta does these properties

14:03

where I get nervous when I

14:10

first hear about them. When she was like,

14:13

okay, I'm doing Little Women, I was like, oh,

14:16

okay, do we want that? Is that something we want?

14:18

Did we need it? Did we even

14:20

need it? I think I even said that. And yes,

14:23

it is the definitive one for me now. Not

14:25

that I don't love the other ones. No, we

14:27

do, but we needed Amy to have redemption. But

14:29

oh my gosh, just the way

14:32

that she did it and the whole thing.

14:34

And then when I heard about this, I

14:36

was like, what? What? What?

14:39

And so now that I hear she's doing

14:41

Narnia, I'm like... And that's not even

14:43

her next project. The next one we'll see from her is Snow

14:45

White. And so Snow

14:47

White comes out next year, and I'll

14:49

be curious, how about all En sols?

14:51

But you're exactly right. We're also getting

14:53

Narnia as well. So with Noah, Noah,

14:55

who may not be as well known,

14:58

they met when they starred. She

15:02

was in his film. She was an actor and

15:04

she's still an actor, but she was in his film,

15:06

Greenberg, which is a rom-com

15:08

starring Ben Stiller. Noah

15:10

Baumbach co-wrote that movie with his wife at

15:13

the time, Jennifer Jason Lee. That didn't last.

15:15

No. She was having their

15:17

baby. He was maybe having an affair with an actor on

15:19

his set, which ends up being Greta Gerwig. You

15:21

can look up the timeline of that if you like. We're

15:24

not going to pretend that that didn't happen. No. And

15:26

that we don't have some condemnation for that. We don't

15:29

love it. We don't love it. But now that we've

15:31

been together for many years, the interesting thing about that

15:33

is, I just want to say this, because I think

15:35

it's appropriate on this International Women's Day to comment on

15:37

this. Jennifer Jason

15:39

Lee, they met on set.

15:41

They met on a

15:44

theater set and fell in love

15:46

and got married and had a kid. And

15:49

then he fell in love with Greta Gerwig, and

15:51

now they have two kids. And

15:53

what I love is that Jennifer Jason Lee

15:55

was eight years older than no Obama, and

15:57

then no surprise, Greta Gerwig, 14 years. Younger

16:00

than know about. might. Listen. Men

16:02

are going to Men Men every now. Their Abraham

16:04

they're going to and hundred and a bad. He

16:07

did one of my favorite films which is Marriage

16:09

Story he directed and right with I, Adam Driver

16:11

and Scarlet Your Hands and it's a great film

16:13

arm and so I am. I'm a fan, I'm

16:16

a fan. He also wrote Map Fantastic Mr. Fox

16:18

a fantastic. Animated film he wrote. He

16:20

did a hitting are not sensitive write scripts.

16:22

It's so good. Oh my gosh. Okay let's

16:24

talk about who won the movie who Enemy

16:26

Before taking of the script. I think it's

16:28

the scrapped I obviously was nominated for that.

16:31

The screenplay. There's some grief about that. Weirdly,

16:33

some people got mad that it was put

16:35

into you still has to screenplay categories. There's

16:37

original that he wrote this from scratch and

16:39

there's adapted and I come back to the

16:41

argument that like. Know a lot

16:43

of this movie builds on existing Barbie

16:45

I he ivory like. Even things we

16:47

know about Barbie makes her floating and

16:49

all of this like to me. Adapted

16:52

screenplay nomination was right but here's the

16:54

thing. there are lines in this film

16:56

that I just the way that they

16:58

care. Try something that we all understand

17:00

happens when my favorite moments in the

17:02

film is when Will Farrow as the

17:04

Ceo of Mattel is trying to convince

17:06

her that he understands women and you

17:08

cannot call him success in he says

17:10

on the son of a mother. I'm

17:13

the mother of aside some the that you

17:15

are one now I have a woman and

17:17

at that site and I the family we

17:19

can all be like oh we've heard politicians

17:21

say that like all the time be like

17:23

don't worry about your raburn rappers who are

17:25

like now that I have a daughter i'd

17:27

i'd as I can't in his was like

17:29

oh did you took a daughter don't know

17:31

if athlete litter the line where he where

17:33

can have gone to the corporations and he

17:35

has seen the montage and he asked the

17:38

guy could he have a job and he

17:40

says big topic of where these the well.

17:42

You're. Doing patriarchy very well and he

17:44

said now we're still doing it, were

17:46

just hiding in a manner of the

17:48

Autobots of You'll in our real World

17:50

And then of course just listen the

17:52

the line as horses are just men

17:54

extenders and I don't know why that

17:56

resonated so deeply with it. But

17:59

I do. That it's up to me the screen

18:01

place I think it's know at it said that

18:03

there's one moment will talk about Later said I

18:06

didn't live in the script but otherwise I think

18:08

this is a Weldon script with me becomes and

18:10

it under two hours. Everything that you

18:12

need and the hero's journey is found. years

18:14

but there's so much more for I think

18:16

the script really outdid it's of. There's lots

18:18

of things to love in. The. Film but for

18:20

me at the in a day always comes.

18:22

Back. To the screenplay and. They.

18:25

Hired the right people to execute it, but

18:27

the words were from the beginning up. So

18:29

the very get of her, what about you

18:31

Who won the me on? I agree with

18:33

you. I also think that Margot Robbie absolutely

18:35

one that movie not only because. She

18:38

absolutely embodied. Barbie.

18:40

In a perfect way. I

18:42

mean, face. Body. And

18:44

also just vibes I'm she got

18:47

she was paid fifty million after.

18:49

like all of her deals as

18:51

far as production and acting and

18:53

all of that I'm so not

18:55

only a she like one of

18:57

the most recognizable people. One.

18:59

Of the most respected actresses

19:01

now, she's probably the power

19:03

player in Hollywood. As a producer,

19:06

I mean I think she could do

19:08

anything at this point. Listen. We've had

19:10

a little conversations over on either podcast.

19:12

The podcast were talk about pop culture

19:14

and we talked about that Margot Robbie

19:16

is in a beer Unique Circumstances has

19:18

not only is she really a talented

19:20

actor, and she's also wildly hide. In

19:23

St. Louis. Highly highly very funny, very

19:25

funny and then also very savvy. The

19:27

kind of movies that she has produced

19:29

know you're not just started that produce,

19:31

she's picking weird stories like I just

19:34

always go back to. I Tonya she

19:36

was amazing and massive sum of it's

19:38

the fact that she took up that

19:40

story and said oh we're going to

19:42

produce this, We're going to make this

19:44

and so that's now. Let her see

19:47

you, she's getting to make She's A

19:49

She and Ryan Gosling are not only

19:51

producing but they're storing in. The prequels to

19:53

Oceans Eleven outlets like about a who lost the movies

19:55

Okay for I said that there is a line in

19:58

the film but I didn't live and it is. moment

20:00

in the film that I don't love. And

20:02

it is when they're at the weird,

20:04

they're at Weird Barbie's house. And she,

20:06

Barbie is getting really emotional. And

20:08

she's telling Gloria, I'm not pretty

20:11

anymore. I'm not stereotypical Barbie pretty.

20:13

And then the narrator Helen Mirren,

20:16

awesome choice. Helen Mirren comes in

20:18

and says, note to the filmmakers, Margot Robbie is

20:20

the wrong person to cast if you want to

20:22

make this point. And we all laughed at that

20:25

line, because we probably are thinking it. But to

20:27

me, it was, it was a mistake, because it

20:29

took the punch out of what actually think this

20:32

line stole Margot Robbie's Oscar

20:34

nomination. Now, to be

20:36

fair, for acting, now, Margot was

20:39

nominated for producing, this is

20:41

the best picture nominee. And so she

20:43

did. And that is the correct thing she

20:45

should have been nominated for. But when I

20:47

rewatch the scene, because I think Margot's speech

20:49

is critical, it also gets overshadowed by Gloria's

20:51

speech, which happens at the very same time,

20:53

which is what got America her acting nomination.

20:56

But Margot, she says, I'm not

20:58

smart enough to be interesting. And

21:00

she lists all the things she's not

21:02

right. And then she says, I'm not good enough

21:04

for anything. To me, that is

21:07

what she's doing in that scene is so

21:09

important. And to kind of take the steam

21:11

out of it by making a very too

21:13

on the nose self aware joke. I did

21:15

not like that moment because I feel like

21:18

it stole something from because I think a

21:20

lot of women listening now or just

21:22

in the world, me for sure, sometimes

21:25

go I'm not smart enough to be

21:27

interesting. And or they feel

21:29

like they're less than because of the choices

21:31

they've made, or because of the parts of

21:34

themselves that they've leaned on that maybe are

21:36

not as relevant anymore. And

21:38

they get nervous about that. And I think

21:40

that's a real important conversation. But because you

21:42

bookend it between this powerful soliloquy, fair enough

21:45

of Gloria, and then you your

21:47

bookended between Helen Mirren making a

21:49

joke about the prettiness of Margot

21:51

Robbie, when we know Margot

21:54

Robbie is one of the most, like

21:57

you said, important power players as a

21:59

producer. in Hollywood. It just

22:01

felt like a weak moment in the script.

22:03

Yeah, I mean I like but I also

22:06

don't know how you don't like at

22:08

least reference it. Well I think you could have trusted

22:10

us to just know that we're feeling that way and

22:12

I don't think you always have to say everything that

22:14

the audience is thinking. That's probably true. For you, what

22:16

lost the movie? Intersectional

22:19

feminism maybe? Okay so here, I

22:21

mean maybe, I want to say

22:23

maybe. Okay. So do I

22:25

want to demand, and I feel

22:28

this way about all art, but do

22:30

I want to demand that Greta Gerwig

22:32

take her like really specific life experience

22:34

of growing up in

22:36

Sacramento and insert

22:38

a bunch of false diversity into

22:40

going to Catholic school and insert

22:42

that into Lady Bird? No, I

22:44

don't. I don't think that's

22:47

wise to demand diversity into specific stories

22:49

where it doesn't exist. That's silly. But

22:52

if I can summon the ghost of Nox

22:54

McCoy here, like what are we

22:57

asking this movie to do, Barbie? I

22:59

think my main issue with Barbie, if I even

23:02

have one, is not that it's

23:04

intro to feminism because like everyone needs

23:06

intro to feminism at some point, but that

23:09

intro to feminism can't pretend that

23:11

it's advanced feminism. And like

23:14

I'm not saying this with a PhD in

23:16

feminism, like I still need intro to feminism.

23:18

But like I do know that

23:20

my experience as a woman is not the same

23:22

as the experience of a black woman or a

23:24

queer woman. I also think that it's tough. Like

23:28

you're the this, I

23:30

think what we're trying to do here is like we're

23:34

trying to show like a

23:36

generalized experience about what it's like to

23:38

be a woman. Yeah,

23:40

as like all of us. But

23:43

that doesn't exist anymore. Like

23:45

that's not a thing that like

23:47

there is no one experience for

23:49

all women. And so it's tough

23:52

that you're rooting this intro to

23:55

feminism in the very white, thin

23:58

experience. You know, it's Margot

24:01

Robbie. Like that is very white

24:03

and thin and beautiful and blonde. So

24:06

the intersectionality of it is on the

24:08

fringes. We've got like Issa Rae as

24:11

president. We've got Barbies with Disabilities. We've

24:13

got Trans Barbie and Hari Neff. We've

24:15

got different body shapes

24:17

and sizes and skin colors and heights.

24:20

And you know, I understand we're

24:22

not using Barbie, the movie as like a

24:24

grad student dissertation on intersectionality. Like

24:26

I know it can't be that and I don't

24:28

even want it to be that. But I also

24:30

know like we can't ignore that

24:33

we're not done after a glorious

24:36

speech. Like that's not done. Like

24:39

about how hard it is to be a lady. Like

24:41

I resonate with that speech, but it's the beginning, like

24:43

the tip of the iceberg. So it's not really a

24:45

loss in the movie, but

24:49

it's just maybe something to be aware of. I

24:51

think that was the frustration of a lot of

24:53

people. When they watched the movie, they was

24:55

like, this is great. And then everyone

24:57

was like, yay, it's hard to be a lady. Right.

25:01

And here's what I'd say. And here's my minor

25:04

expertise is I have a degree in women.

25:07

Yeah, you actually have this degree. And I

25:09

would make the case, and I'll

25:11

get into this a little bit more later,

25:13

but I would make the case, this is

25:15

not an introduction to feminism, it's an introduction

25:17

to patriarchy. Okay, that's interesting. And so what

25:19

we're actually trying to teach is that here

25:22

is context. Because again, you cannot ask a

25:25

Warner Brothers. $300

25:27

million film to be like, we're

25:29

gonna explain all of the levels of, it's like

25:32

asking any movie to address all the elements of

25:34

racism. Yeah, and we don't want, like that's not

25:36

what they were trying to do.

25:38

And it's not excusing, because you're exactly right. You're exactly

25:40

right. But I do think weirdly, this

25:42

is 100% an introduction to patriarchy, because

25:45

a lot of people will be like, what

25:47

ladies can vote, what's up with y'all? And

25:50

I think showing like, oh,

25:52

you think it's comedy that all

25:54

that that Supreme Court is all women, but if

25:56

you thought it's comedy, that all men have been

25:58

on the Supreme Court. the 90s?

26:00

Did you think that was comedy? No, you

26:02

didn't think it was comedy. You thought that

26:04

was the way things were. And so to

26:06

me, that is what this movie is doing.

26:08

And so when people are critical of the victim

26:11

narrative that Gloria presents, because

26:13

that's what it would be called by a lot

26:15

of people, I would go, you're missing the mark. That's

26:17

not the conversation we're actually having. And that's

26:19

okay that you've missed it. But we're

26:22

trying this, you know, my hot take that we'll get

26:24

into you is that this movie is not for women.

26:27

This movie is for men. Oh, yeah. And so and

26:29

so it's a reminder of like, Hey, you don't have

26:31

you ever noticed that it's always you

26:33

on the money? And that y'all got real

26:35

upset when we try to put somebody else on the money?

26:37

Like real math. Like real math. And so I think that's

26:40

the conversation we're having. So yes, I do think it's

26:43

like we want, we want it all like we

26:45

do we want it to address all of it.

26:47

And it can't. But I think

26:49

the average person that was going to see

26:51

this with their kids or whatever, like, I

26:53

think most of them were like, Oh,

26:56

well, I mean, I mean, thought

26:58

about when Will Ferrell's

27:01

like, acting like this, but oh,

27:03

I thought CEOs are CEOs

27:05

idiots. Sometimes they

27:07

do. Sometimes they do. And

27:09

so I don't like that's not a loss

27:11

for me. But I just get something important

27:13

to like, be maybe no, I think so. Yeah.

27:15

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29:02

Lucky and B P for you Aaron,

29:04

What in the field? Cameo Some A

29:07

you're a Mvp Well for me it

29:09

was the scraps so you mentioned that

29:11

it were kind of thing that when

29:13

the navy for you like I said

29:15

earlier, it's Grata is an insane person.

29:17

I know she wrote this with Now

29:19

I actually watch the sixty minutes interview

29:21

with her and now we're talking about

29:23

the like, the whole process of writing

29:26

the script and so lovely. Asks them

29:28

a question about. Okay, so

29:30

there's all of this controversy about

29:32

Barbie in the movie that it

29:35

it's anti Man and so. How

29:38

do you address that and grad a gives

29:40

know at this look in the middle of

29:42

the interview and he kind of rolls his

29:44

eyes a little bit and so he answers.

29:47

The. Question Like very succinctly and he

29:49

says, well, I just kind of think that

29:51

men can take it. And

29:53

then see she goes. Can I answer

29:56

and my way. And. He kind of

29:58

as. Okay, Thera

30:00

com esses starts making

30:03

this insane analogy with

30:05

a. Old. Ancient

30:08

Greek play called list distraught us

30:10

that was written by air soften

30:12

these which is like the most

30:14

bizarre like reference that no one

30:17

who did not sit in a

30:19

like script analysis class. In.

30:21

Their junior year over the theater

30:23

major is ever gonna get like

30:25

she just she's a nutjob. but

30:27

like in this, this script is

30:29

so tight. It. Is the

30:31

throw away? Lines are good? Yeah,

30:33

I mean easy to eat like

30:35

that line. How can I be

30:37

a fascist? I don't control the

30:39

railways or the flow of commerce.

30:41

ice. I cannot believe it's like

30:43

almost lost because it is so

30:45

incredible. Ah all Allen's have been

30:47

in the real world before. No

30:49

one's noticed in seem to bear

30:51

all Allen's even that when love

30:53

it like incredible I'm. Like.

30:56

Is it just me or did these Mojo dojo

30:58

casa houses just get a whole lot dreamy earth.

31:00

That's because their dream house is. Like

31:03

like to see my gosh,

31:05

Yikes! There is. There.

31:07

Is no. There. Is no

31:10

piece of the script that's wasted. It

31:12

is inevitable. So it's that like know exactly

31:14

like one of my favorite moments. What

31:16

am I was Tbp are that's just the

31:18

array of discontinued Barbies that were presented with

31:21

is weird. Barbies helps, particularly sugar daddies like

31:23

I'm not a sugar daddy, this is my

31:25

dog Sugar and I'm his daddy daddy

31:27

And that lately says to sit with that

31:29

and be like are magic eras can I'm

31:32

I'm a man with no power. Does that

31:34

make me a woman? The front the like

31:36

I It's like I've been in a

31:38

dream where. I was really invested in the

31:40

Zack Snyder kind of Justice League. I just

31:42

like a it is and is perfection know

31:45

and ended as if the i hope that

31:47

they win for adapted screenplay ideas if it

31:49

is the tide of script ever seen in

31:51

my life that somehow it's so gets listen

31:53

for me and that are like a mvp

31:55

I mean we bigger mess we didn't talk

31:57

about the Ryan Gosling of at all know

31:59

because. I know people get mad because are

32:01

like just like him. far be Ryan Gosling.

32:04

The only one accident been a steady I

32:06

think Redeker Wix have a nominee structure for

32:08

Sharia by a d she says she went

32:10

now I don't night with that it's it's

32:12

it's a tough it's a tough races have

32:14

racists your this year but. Ryan.

32:16

Gosling leaning all the way and

32:18

I was living in the Ah

32:20

some was Tanner for what felt

32:22

like I'm sure four months of

32:24

just having to have that here

32:27

and just look like that and

32:29

just listen when he improv. Going.

32:31

Back into the motor soda pop out oh my.

32:33

Gosh, To scream sublime. I. Never.

32:36

Implied a reminder the origin story of

32:38

him accepting this role about like them

32:40

presenting it to him and him saying

32:42

uncanny i think about it and then

32:44

walking outside his house and seeing a

32:46

Kindle face down in the ground next

32:48

to like an old lemons yes and

32:50

taking a picture and sending integrative be

32:52

like I will be or ten because

32:54

I will tell his story says like

32:56

of to me like him taking it

32:58

that seriously. the family has written that

33:00

script I now and his name was

33:02

by ten yeah every time I can

33:04

it already running up for. Ryan golf outings

33:06

Uma which is pretty good. yeah thats and

33:08

listen I do want to say of theory

33:10

tiny, bulky and Bp for welfare or the

33:12

Malia for thought that little lot of him

33:15

getting on the elevator with all the other

33:17

execs and going to to do push that

33:19

button up up up up up up as

33:21

a great moment of a man like other

33:23

to a man child rape but did it's

33:25

when they're on rollerblades and he's had any

33:27

my words lady back here. Any such as

33:29

met my entire life in boardrooms because of

33:31

a bottom line know if it is. This

33:33

is because a little girls and their dream

33:35

in the least. Crate creepy way possible. Nail

33:37

blade faster. I just like that he's

33:39

like you're gonna have to go to

33:41

Venice. Airflow. Rollerblades wire the

33:44

three piece. Suit or guess. And

33:46

you're just gonna have to say the slot

33:48

over and over again while you try to

33:50

rollerblade up hills. which she would He said

33:52

with Barbie says Mr Mattel and she's He

33:54

says please call me mother. It's

33:56

you say? It nothing good. Know that you

33:59

results. So good It's

34:01

just really so that okay where is the

34:03

best seen for you While it was the

34:05

moment in the movie and I was surprised

34:07

because of like I know there's gonna be

34:09

some sort of admit emotional manipulation that will

34:11

happen to me and the some snot you

34:13

and I bet their feelings repressed. yeah I'm

34:16

but I am particularly feelings. Are pressed at

34:18

you? at least have. A lie like you're

34:20

in the fire. I I feel feelings,

34:22

I just don't know what they are

34:24

right and I refrain. Every feeling into

34:26

your optimism looming. Fix everything Thousand and

34:28

so this. It's hard to sometimes watch

34:30

these movies because I know they're going

34:32

to manipulate me and I know I'm

34:34

in a crisis. It was early, it

34:36

was on when Barbie is on the

34:38

bench trying to connect to the memories

34:40

of the girl who's playing with her

34:42

because she signed to find her. And

34:44

Barbie in that moment sees what is.

34:47

For. The first time rather than. This.

34:49

Is Debbie Land know this? And. It's beautiful.

34:51

She sees. A child playing on a purchase

34:54

is a family having a picnic. She looks at

34:56

the tree and the branches which is gonna be

34:58

a call back later in the film arms and

35:00

as she sees of course the old woman and

35:02

tell her she's beautiful and of course the women

35:05

a meeting like I know it and not seen

35:07

celebrates the beauty and privilege of aging I think

35:09

which is a message we don't always get yes

35:11

I the and even in Barbies noticed was that

35:14

when you mention all the types of Barbies we

35:16

see exactly. right? We don't have an old

35:18

Barbie as I know Barbie over forty. Yeah

35:21

except maybe sugar that ever real tight

35:23

every yeah. And I think it's critical

35:25

because ah we talk about representational lot

35:28

of the Bmg or much to some

35:30

dismay how much we talk about it

35:32

but some immoral and I'm like I

35:34

now and we've made some progress in

35:37

Hollywood. we can see that by I

35:39

don't always think we see five inclusivity

35:41

and I'm talking about my for myself.

35:44

I don't always see myself represented on

35:46

screens as a fat person or as

35:48

an older person at the the oldest.

35:50

At the Dnc something eventually docile, have

35:52

to discontinue. Cause he's very ages are out of

35:55

our elder. I'm the. Elder and so what

35:57

I loved about that scene is. Barred.

36:00

seeing what is because

36:02

she would have never really spent a lot

36:04

of time she's not been with old people

36:07

and suddenly she looks at woman is like yours and

36:09

I just was

36:11

moved so deeply by that

36:13

as someone who myself is

36:15

trying to unravel aging and

36:17

going hey you're fantastic like

36:20

you being 48 is a

36:22

dreamy dreamy space to be in even

36:24

though your hormones have betrayed you in

36:26

every way like you're still pretty fantastic

36:28

yeah for you what was the best

36:31

thing so for me it was any

36:33

time that Barbie it was particularly the

36:35

two scenes that she really interacts with

36:37

Ruth Handler who is her creator of

36:40

course so especially like when she's

36:42

running from the Mattel like

36:45

executive and you

36:48

know Greta Greta obviously spent

36:50

a lot of time in Catholic school she grew

36:52

up Unitarian Universalist but

36:54

there I really do feel like

36:57

there are a lot of themes within this

36:59

movie that are very biblical she

37:02

in that scene there's a moment

37:05

where Ruth hands Barbie the cup of

37:07

tea and the way that Greta lined

37:09

up she talks about how is it

37:11

the exact way that God is touching

37:13

Adam on the Sistine Chapel ceiling of

37:15

course and so there's

37:17

there's that moment of like

37:20

you know Greta's talked about how this is

37:22

like a subversive creation myth from

37:24

Genesis like Barbie was invented

37:26

first and Ken was invented after Barbie to

37:29

kind of like show us like who was

37:31

in charge in this universe so

37:34

I just I think that

37:36

anytime there's that creator with

37:38

their creation and especially when

37:40

she gets released to

37:42

be what I'm when they have that

37:44

discussion about can I leave and she

37:46

says I can't control you like I want you to be

37:48

who you want to be that is

37:52

that to me is that conversation we

37:55

love a free will moment oh listen I

37:57

mean well not just that conversation of Greta

37:59

we're out like what is it

38:01

to be a person and who is God

38:04

and what where where do we all fit

38:06

in this like kind of divine conversation so

38:09

I love that that was explored and I

38:11

love I love Ruth Handler like she is

38:13

a nut like and I

38:16

love Rhea Perlman's portrayal of her I think that was

38:18

such a I think that I just I

38:20

loved the way that they did that I thought that was just

38:22

one it was such a nice hat tip to Ruth Handler

38:24

the creator of Barbie yeah like to be able to go

38:26

back to like yeah no this was the way and

38:28

I like that they didn't make her into something

38:31

she wasn't which was like a smart savvy executive

38:34

yeah no like she's like no I'm in my

38:36

kitchen and I'm made a doll yeah like I

38:38

don't know what to tell you yeah I kind

38:40

of love that yeah absolutely okay so let's talk

38:43

about a moment in the movie that we would

38:45

need to unpack with the religious trauma therapist everyone

38:47

listening has a religious trauma therapist right I mean

38:49

we all have some version we'll get your directory

38:51

if you if you don't have one that's right

38:54

so for me it is the conversation between Sasha

38:56

and her mother Gloria where they're in the car

38:58

and Sasha says she's

39:00

telling her like I love those drawings and Gloria

39:02

goes you like my drawings and she

39:05

said yes they are weird and dark

39:07

and crazy all the things you pretend

39:09

not to be Wow and listen

39:11

I just wrote down as I was watching that

39:14

scene it was like I got overwhelmed because who

39:17

who we are rather than who the

39:20

church tells us we should be who culture

39:23

tells you you should be who your family

39:25

tells you you should be like I

39:27

myself Jamie I am I am pretty

39:29

weird and dark and crazy I think

39:31

Aaron could attest to that yeah after

39:33

a decade of friendship I'm

39:36

single and content I

39:39

am fat and content and

39:41

I sometimes struggle with that because

39:43

it feels like all of like

39:45

really people I like are telling

39:47

me you should not be single are

39:49

you sad it's like no I'm really like I

39:51

haven't found the man that's better than no man

39:54

I don't know what to tell you like this

39:56

is where I am and it's not a and

39:58

sometimes I'll go am I fake content Yeah,

40:00

and my therapist? Why? they know you? You

40:02

seem pretty content like and I and I

40:04

think that contented ness. Also. Bothers

40:07

people because either they're struggling with

40:09

her own discontents or it's just

40:11

as a threat. if, like, Whoa.

40:13

You can be happy and be alone or

40:15

be overweight or be as not in the

40:18

way that everyone tells you that you need

40:20

to. That's right, that's right And and then

40:22

people will read you know like will, who's

40:24

gonna take care of you when you're old

40:26

of unlike the stay up an eye out

40:28

on now the people I give the money

40:30

to you I mean someone want to steal

40:32

my money and put me in a whole

40:34

other fired as a core people who say

40:36

like will do you want to be healthy.

40:38

Have a hate to break it. But.

40:41

I've been to have a long time and I'm

40:43

on know prescription meds for lab are clay a

40:45

wide ugly and I left. I don't know what

40:47

to tell you so ah and another upsets people

40:49

because they're like what I can't be right because

40:52

of course we're a culture that it has. Convinced

40:54

as I would again say that the patriarchy

40:56

that has told us. Use. Worried

40:58

about how often you are and how single

41:00

you are and how alone you are? Because

41:03

we need women to be. So we need

41:05

women to be scared? Yeah, We. Need

41:07

women to be scared because that props

41:09

up this culture right? And you know,

41:11

like that is. Also. True

41:13

in religion, yet like in

41:16

Christianity and in the ways

41:18

like we need. Fear. We.

41:20

Need to be able to control people

41:22

and so that they are afraid so

41:24

that there and it's just a perpetual

41:26

psycho. Fear is one of our most

41:29

profound political tactics, right? The religious tactic,

41:31

yeah, it is like no, you don't

41:33

understand that you know, never seen it

41:35

as like know it's effects to that

41:37

is something I thought i'm the devil

41:39

implored my fear to learn about that

41:41

because this was. Like. being at

41:44

ease with being weird and dark and

41:46

crazy because you see that in glory

41:48

as you just run the driver chevy

41:50

yeah i saw that product placement arrived

41:53

at he married her husband is trying

41:55

to learn spanish listen listen when holland

41:57

and i saw that no man We

42:00

scream it's been moon because that is the

42:02

most been it's not even been moon coated.

42:04

That is been moved Right is on Duolingo

42:06

all the time. He's come I see him

42:08

on Instagram stories presenting any language He's learned.

42:10

It's my favorite cause we screamed. Yeah, and

42:12

we lost we left our souls left our

42:14

bodies. It's so funny Okay.

42:16

So for me, it was 100% the push

42:18

bonfire moment You

42:23

can substitute better is one day for

42:25

push and that is every group trip

42:27

I ever went on I really thought

42:30

about this and I wanted to understand

42:32

like why it is That

42:34

men think women think that any man

42:36

who plays the guitar is automatically attractive

42:39

And I don't know because I it's

42:41

not wrong that it it is playing

42:43

the guitar can't be attractive No, cuz

42:45

you know what we're really attracted to

42:48

waiters You

42:51

know when someone brings me food and it's delicious

42:54

My no, I mean that's what tells

42:56

me to get the meatballs and then I get

42:58

the meatballs and they're phenomenal I'm like do

43:00

I love you? I am a love

43:02

you. I love you That's right, cuz it's

43:05

like but it's like I think it's had

43:07

social unawareness that accompanies like a a

43:09

public impromptu Performance or

43:12

a one-on-one like the

43:14

eye contact moment. It's like they're playing

43:16

at you instead of I don't know

43:18

I just I can't I can't I don't

43:20

know what it is It's hot because

43:22

it's not hotness because Ryan Gosling

43:24

is very hot Yeah, but man,

43:27

I I went immediately back

43:29

to Louisiana Tech, you know

43:32

2000 summer of 2000 just someone

43:34

outside the worship center singing better is one day in

43:36

your court and I was like, ah I got it.

43:39

I gotta get out here. And then they want it

43:41

and then when they're done playing they would explain the

43:43

scripture reference I got it. Yeah, I got it. I

43:45

already know I'm already there. Thank you. Okay I want

43:47

you to pick a character that you would add to

43:49

the disciple gang This is tough because I really want

43:52

to feminize the gang. I did you I do and

43:54

I do love to be afraid They're already

43:56

feminized. This just you know, nobody I know

43:58

I know I am gonna add a

44:01

woman. I am gonna try to, you're right, they are

44:03

already feminine, but I am gonna add a little woman

44:05

and it is of course gonna be weird Barbie. Here's

44:07

the thing, what's great is her damage is

44:10

what makes her critical to the gang because

44:12

she doesn't fit in, why she's on the

44:15

house on the hill is

44:17

because she has been

44:19

damaged and can see the truth. And I

44:21

do think for the disciples, if we really

44:23

spend some time with them, they really struggled

44:25

with this. Like they really struggled with like,

44:28

wait, are you, what are you?

44:30

You said masala, what does that

44:32

mean? I'm not going to heaven today. And

44:35

I feel like Jesus was constantly like, are y'all

44:37

listening to anything I'm saying? I feel like you're

44:39

not even trying. And so,

44:41

and it's why I think she would also

44:43

be in the same way that she's disdained in Barbie

44:45

land. I do think the disciples would be like, oh

44:48

yeah, and we're, we're Barbies here. She

44:50

gives me a big John of Avast

44:52

energy. Oh, very much so.

44:55

Yeah. But she is the Morpheus Obi-Wan,

44:57

like the right hand of

44:59

the power, right? And explaining to the

45:02

group, no, no, no, you need

45:04

to act. Cause I just picture her being like,

45:06

listen, John, it doesn't matter that you run faster.

45:08

It's more important that you understand what you were

45:10

running from. Right? And so

45:12

I know. So I would like a little 13 and

45:14

listen, I think we'd Barbie could better explain

45:16

to the rest of the group how Judas was

45:19

misrepresented. I listen, she would, yeah, she would

45:22

have changed that whole narrative. That's right. Okay.

45:24

For you. So for me, obviously,

45:26

you know, I too want to add

45:28

some ladies to the agenda, but in

45:31

my heart of hearts, I really

45:33

just think Alan would be a

45:35

great addition to the disciples. One,

45:38

just a good hang, right? Obviously

45:41

skilled in hand to hand combat. Um,

45:44

and which feels like none of them

45:46

were. Well, we know they weren't right

45:48

because we got people chopping off ears.

45:50

Yeah. And that, that was it. Really?

45:53

I mean, not doing a great job

45:55

there. Um, also just feels like if

45:57

you've got sons of thunder, if you've

46:00

got people just having arguments all the time about who

46:02

gets to sit at Jesus's right hand. I feel like

46:04

Alan is just gonna be like, hey, y'all need a

46:06

snack. Like, wait, like, let's just, let's

46:08

just, let's just take a break. Should we swap

46:10

clothes? Yeah. Yeah. And so I just feel like,

46:12

I feel like he would be like a very

46:15

equalizing equilibrium kind of

46:17

vibe to the disciples. And

46:19

let's be honest, I feel like the disciples

46:21

already had a queer energy in, in embedded

46:24

into them. This would only affirm it in a

46:26

way. No question, no question about it. Okay, Jamie,

46:28

give me a quote from the movie that you

46:31

can build a Bible study on. You mentioned it

46:33

earlier, and it is iconic. I'm a man with

46:35

no power. Does that make me a

46:37

woman? I want to build

46:39

a Bible study. It's like eight weeks. I

46:41

think it's a solid eight weeks. There is

46:43

a video series. I think it is best

46:45

more teaching it. Being like,

46:48

hey, men with no power

46:51

in the church, the guys who don't,

46:53

who are not deacons or elders, you're

46:55

just, you're serving on the parking theme.

46:57

Come over here. Let me explain for

46:59

you how to be in the world.

47:01

And I'm going to help you. I

47:03

think it's like a reverse patriarchy Bible

47:05

study. I like that. Mine

47:07

is called Shredding Waves

47:09

is much more dangerous than people

47:12

realize, colon walking on water with

47:14

Jesus isn't as easy as you think. Oh, see,

47:16

cause I do think a lot of people were

47:18

like, I would, I would have walked on water.

47:21

No, you wouldn't. No, you wouldn't. Don't lie. No, you

47:23

understand the terror, the absolute terror

47:25

when it thunders. What's your reaction? Let me

47:28

all immediately, like, are we, are we going

47:30

to get in the basement? That's like, that's

47:32

like doing the, the glass floor thing in

47:34

New York city. Like that, that's, that's a,

47:37

that's in a tall building. You make it

47:39

sound like there's just like one place

47:41

where you can walk on the floor that's made of glass. Okay. Talk

47:43

to me about

47:47

your hottest take about this movie. Again,

47:49

it is that this movie is for

47:51

men. Okay. I do think that one

47:54

of the most important lessons about this film and,

47:56

and in the teaching of patriarchy and in kind

47:58

of unpacking it is. that we

48:00

think that a lot of times we

48:02

have conversations about patriarchy being about how

48:04

it limits women. And it does, okay?

48:06

Like, hopefully we all have clarity about that.

48:10

Right, but I also think that

48:12

men don't always fully understand how

48:14

patriarchy limits them as well. Especially

48:16

patriarchy in the church. Because patriarchy

48:18

in the church tells you, we're

48:20

gonna have a men's retreat and we're gonna

48:22

bring in big monster drugs and we're gonna

48:25

eat deer meat. That's right. And

48:27

listen, there is a place for that. I'm not

48:29

saying that men that like to shoot a deer

48:31

and then eat it immediately aren't fantastic. Love it.

48:33

Love you, don't wanna see the blood

48:36

under your eyes on my Instagram, but

48:38

more power to you. But also I

48:40

think what happens is we get into,

48:42

as we all know, a toxic masculinity

48:44

that makes, and you see it in

48:46

Ken, when Ken has to realize, all

48:49

I know is the warmth of your gaze.

48:51

He says that. The male gaze is also

48:54

a part of his own experience. Being like,

48:56

men expect me to be this. He's

48:59

always mad at C-movie you because he can't live. Right?

49:02

And Ken has to get to the place where

49:04

he has to go, what, I am

49:07

Kness. Yeah. Right? And

49:09

I think a lot of men are always trying to meet

49:11

some standard themselves. It's not just

49:13

women that think they have to be

49:15

married. Men often in the church go,

49:18

because we don't even know what to do with a man who

49:20

wants to work in the nursery. We don't let him. I

49:23

worked at a church where you weren't even allowed to

49:25

serve in the kids ministry if you were a

49:27

man. Because it was just assumed you wanted to

49:29

diddle the kids. Wow. And it's like,

49:31

guys, what are we doing? Do you know how

49:33

much value having men in spaces where

49:38

they can be tender and caring

49:40

and nurturing? How valuable that is

49:42

to all people? Well, that's why

49:45

everyone's freaking out about the Kelsey brothers. Because

49:47

they're like, oh my gosh, a man who-

49:49

Thank you for bringing it up. That's one

49:51

of my examples. Yeah, like, it's just like,

49:53

they're like, a man is

49:55

crying and showing emotion. And it's like, the bar

49:57

is on the floor. So let's talk about it.

50:00

I think that that is in the Supreme

50:02

court at the beginning. right? The

50:04

Ah a lawyer arguing the case as I

50:06

have no difficulty holding but logic I'm feeling

50:08

at the same time as not diminish my

50:11

power to expand. Yes and I think for

50:13

women we can get there quicker. Yeah to

50:15

listen a Christian Now Christian woman loves the

50:17

saying more than both. And oh I can

50:19

Hoboken hold it in like an old Attention

50:22

Rights And I love that that is true

50:24

and want that's But if that is not

50:26

valued in Ah, America A really is. And

50:28

and I have two examples. One for women

50:30

when from in the first is on Super

50:32

Tuesday at Ah. On. The primary voting

50:34

day a man was interviewed about by the news

50:37

and he was asked if he would vote for

50:39

Nikki Haley and he sat. I did not vote

50:41

for a woman. In. The Year of

50:43

our Lord Twenty Twenty four he said I

50:45

could not vote for a woman's because when

50:48

you're in the White House a man as

50:50

gonna scratches ball a woman's just gonna scratch

50:52

your head with. For me I think you

50:54

just made a case for voting for a

50:57

woman like to me like hi wake up

50:59

what is what is the value in that

51:01

and so and then you have Jason Kelsey

51:03

center for the Philadelphia Eagles Eagles who retired

51:05

and at his press conference he started the

51:08

press conference cry out of a crime cried

51:10

the whole way through and then you turn.

51:12

And. The camera on his stoic mother who

51:14

is unmoved by the whole thing. species

51:16

like I've lived this the ball life.

51:19

For. Thirty years on Omri be I'm ready

51:21

to be done. And like lot like Ally,

51:23

a bubble bath. Yeah, I'd like to stop

51:26

going to snow, going to just write it

51:28

and then his brother try this. Is

51:30

sitting in the off audience were those

51:32

sunglasses? because the. A dozen which receives

51:35

read shiny Ice because he has also

51:37

sobbing and like you said it went

51:39

viral because it was and my favorite

51:41

sweet about it was what it.when it

51:43

aired and Donna Kelsey do you have

51:45

created was also saw know that at

51:47

their i don't think there's anything that

51:49

you can. Read. from the two

51:51

of them that would make them some i think what

51:54

it is is a brotherhood in sports a tenderness for

51:56

each other down and i think a lot of men

51:58

in sports have them They just don't feel like they

52:00

can show it publicly So the affection that they have

52:02

for each other and the care that they have for

52:05

each other if you watch a lot of sports Interviews,

52:07

I think you'll see that I get served a lot

52:09

of weird sports interviews on tick-tock I

52:11

think because I like hot athletic people.

52:13

Yeah, but To

52:15

me there is a space for this.

52:18

It's also in the scene where You

52:21

have the scene where it's talking about it's it's

52:23

the ad for the new depression Barbie And

52:26

it says and it says

52:28

get run out and get the new depression

52:30

Barbie She wears sweatpants all day and night

52:32

She spent seven hours on Instagram looking at

52:34

her estranged best friends engagement photos while eating

52:36

a family size bag of starburst And now

52:38

her jaw is killing her and now she's

52:40

gonna watch the BBC's Pride and Prejudice for

52:42

the seventh time Until she falls

52:45

asleep. I did not need to be

52:47

read in that way God, I have

52:49

the starburst at my house right now sitting

52:51

in the chair that I watch TV yet Here's

52:53

why I think that's important. I think it's okay for people

52:55

to do that. Sometimes like it's okay to watch the BBC

52:58

Pride and Prejudice seven times. It's okay to rewind

53:00

the lake scene. Okay, 100% It's

53:02

okay to immediately go from the lake scene to

53:05

the hand flex scene in the other price. That's

53:07

exactly right It's exactly right. And so we need

53:09

to make a space for this to be okay

53:11

And I think you see that as

53:14

Ken ends the movie going.

53:16

Well, I don't know who I am without

53:18

this Yeah, and I think we need a

53:20

space for the artist for the tender heart

53:23

for the tender hearted for the nurturing for the

53:25

guys Who I it's like always go back to

53:27

you. We let guys be chefs. Why

53:29

can't they cook at home? Yeah, I don't

53:32

understand why is the like why is

53:34

the thing that women do at home?

53:36

Only dominated by men in a professional setting.

53:39

I will scream into the void doesn't make

53:41

it. I will okay you hottest My

53:43

hottest take is that this movie is

53:45

wonderful and it's incredible and it would

53:48

it's amazing on its own it Transcends

53:50

time and space because of the music.

53:52

Oh specifically because of

53:55

what was I made for It's

53:58

it is And that

54:01

song will it is

54:03

the most emotionally kneecapping song I have

54:05

ever heard in my whole freaking life

54:08

The way she sings it the way he plays

54:10

it. I cannot believe it. I Been

54:14

moon cries. Yeah every time

54:16

he just goes and finds the girls and

54:19

Touches that like hugs them and just lets

54:22

it fall over him and he weeps. It's

54:24

just too much It's too much and the

54:27

fact that they wrote that song Billy Eilish

54:29

and her brother Finneas wrote that song After

54:32

only having seen 40 minutes of

54:34

footage unreal And they so

54:36

they write the song and send it back

54:38

and they're like and you know Mark

54:40

Ronson who was the music supervisor He

54:43

was probably so mad. He was saying I

54:45

can imagine the the envy and jealousy I

54:47

know he was like I wrote eight songs

54:50

And I'm not gonna win it. I'm gonna win

54:52

an Oscar. I'm not gonna win an Oscar They

54:54

just got punched me just punched me and

54:57

the fact that then they built

54:59

whole scene Yeah around that song

55:01

Yeah And you you hear the

55:03

echoes of it if you're really paying attention you hear

55:06

the echoes of it When she's looking

55:08

at the tree at the beginning and it's just

55:10

a really fantastic song. I think it captures

55:14

the essence of girlhood like it

55:16

is the sound of of

55:18

that moment between Like when

55:21

you move from girlhood to

55:23

womanhood and you are looking

55:25

back at your girlhood and

55:28

That wistful feeling and that kind

55:30

of just ache I

55:32

mean it is it is it is

55:34

transcendence. It's it's really one of those songs

55:36

where and this is a rarity where the

55:40

music and The

55:42

performance and the lyrics form a

55:44

perfect circle of in diagram. Absolutely

55:46

where She is

55:48

singing in that type of that she doesn't

55:50

normally see no She's singing in that

55:52

that is a very difficult performance to do it.

55:54

Absolutely She was like I was kind

55:56

of hoping those would bomb because I could never perform

55:58

this live. We are But the line

56:01

where it says think I forgot how to

56:03

be happy something. I'm not that's something I

56:05

can be yeah and that That

56:07

line I don't tell my

56:09

boyfriend. It's not what he's made for

56:11

yeah the district the capture like the

56:13

capture of how men

56:16

Want to fix the unhappiness or the

56:18

yeah that just the sadness that women

56:21

feel about losing that girlhood

56:23

innocence and losing that like

56:25

tethering to like the true essence

56:27

of who they are like the I

56:30

read it. I read a essay and I can't I'm mad that

56:32

I can't remember Who wrote

56:34

it but talking about like the joy of being

56:36

ugly as a girl like? like

56:39

being outside and climbing trees and being

56:41

dirty and like playing pretend and like

56:43

playing with your Barbies and like the

56:45

mud and Just like just the joy

56:48

of like not caring. It's like melon

56:50

Yeah Worrying about smelling yes and just

56:52

like not caring about like what you

56:54

look like and just like being so

56:57

free in that That is what that

56:59

song is to me. So just like looking back on that

57:01

and wishing you could have that again So is

57:03

that song just is it is everything? It's everything Okay,

57:06

so in this film we often when we

57:08

have to do discussions here at the PMG

57:10

about movies We often say recast one role

57:12

and why so for you if you were

57:14

gonna do that, who would it be? Don't

57:16

be mad, but I'm not gonna do it I

57:20

think Allison Jones is the best at her

57:22

job. Listen, they're adding I've always

57:24

I've made a firm argument for a decade that

57:26

there should be an Oscar for cast Yeah, and

57:29

they have added it finally and

57:31

she cast this movie so

57:33

for even in the really

57:35

minor Moment. I tried

57:37

to do this and I can't but I will

57:39

say what I did do is and it was

57:41

the thing I wanted and it's the thing that

57:44

Greta Gerwig wanted but it could not work out

57:46

schedule wise which was to have cameos from Timothee

57:48

Chalamet and Saoirse

57:51

Ronan Because they're her kind

57:53

of muses that have been in everything and they

57:55

just could not work it out timing wise For

57:58

them to come and be but listen to have,

58:00

what were they gonna be? Well,

58:02

they were just gonna be one of the

58:04

Barbies like in the scenes like either, because

58:06

listen, Timbate Chalamet as magical earring, Kim.

58:10

Like that's what I'm looking for. The

58:12

fact that it could have been Saoirse

58:14

who would be, I don't know, skipper.

58:16

I know, that would have been Leslie. We

58:19

did not honor this task. No,

58:22

we didn't. Okay, so, okay, let's

58:24

do some listener questions. So this is from

58:26

E.T. Hardin. I was

58:28

so struck at the end by Barbie's decision

58:30

to become human and to parallel to Jesus's

58:32

incarnation, leaving the Barbie utopia to experience humanity.

58:34

It also makes me wonder about heaven and

58:37

whether we are made for, see what I

58:39

did there, an existence that's free from suffering

58:41

and difficulty. Will that be fulfilling or would

58:43

it be devoid of humanity? What do you

58:45

think about that? First of all, can we

58:47

just say that if you're not hanging out

58:50

in our Instagram, everybody's

58:52

so smart. Everyone's so

58:54

freaking smart. So thoughtful, so smart. This person murdered

58:56

me. I had like an existential crisis. I know.

58:58

But I will

59:02

say, we get this from Revelation

59:04

21, which is he will wipe every tear from

59:07

their eyes. There'll be no more to death,

59:09

mourning, crying or pain. It does

59:11

not say that there will be no

59:13

more sadness or disappointment. I

59:15

think we fill in the blanks a

59:17

little bit. Listen, what do I know about

59:20

heaven? What will happen in

59:22

there? I don't have any idea. Anyone who tells

59:24

you they know, listen to our episode on heaven,

59:27

they don't know. But he

59:31

says I make everything new. So I'm

59:33

interested in what the new looks like.

59:35

I think our humanity may be

59:37

devoid of suffering, like abject suffering

59:40

is a kinder gentler humanity,

59:43

but it's still humanity. Maybe

59:45

it's the new

59:47

humanity that we wish we had had

59:50

the whole time. Because I think we've

59:52

made the best of a bad situation.

59:54

It's the Mary Englebright quote, bloom where

59:56

you're planted. I think we've bloomed where we

59:58

know I love her. I

1:00:00

think we have bloomed where we've implanted but

1:00:03

imagine if we could bloom in the way

1:00:05

that we were always intended to move I

1:00:07

think that could still be nuanced and gorgeous

1:00:09

and have a lot of beauty to it

1:00:11

Yeah, I think I think you know you

1:00:13

said it like we're it was first I

1:00:15

think it's important to remember that like there

1:00:17

is was no real concept of quote going

1:00:19

to heaven in Scripture that didn't

1:00:21

exist the way we think of it now and

1:00:24

that was a more that's more recent concept

1:00:26

I think you know you said like we're getting

1:00:28

a new heaven and a new earth and

1:00:31

we and like a new earth Yeah, I

1:00:33

think that is I mean that that's really

1:00:35

interesting to me Like what does that look

1:00:37

like and we are actually a new creation

1:00:39

which means like our bodies are new our

1:00:41

minds are new What does that look like

1:00:43

and I think I also wonder sometimes if

1:00:46

we are so trained or? Stockholm

1:00:49

syndrome like to live and die By

1:00:54

a mindset of capitalism

1:00:57

that we just can't imagine another way

1:00:59

Like like that that would be like we are

1:01:01

so trained to see life like that to go

1:01:04

I can't even imagine like

1:01:06

a fulfilling life outside of that not

1:01:08

thought that's not a like a Hit

1:01:11

on ET Harmon. It's just I just

1:01:13

wonder if like we we don't

1:01:16

have the imagination Possible for

1:01:18

how that could be so sacred imagination.

1:01:20

They go yeah, okay, let's do Okay,

1:01:22

this is from Jeanette Seven

1:01:24

would love to hear y'all talk about the lessons

1:01:26

the movie teaches about the role of free will

1:01:29

in shaping society and the

1:01:31

way society circles back to shape our individual

1:01:33

wills and how does that fit together with

1:01:35

the theology of Predestination

1:01:37

and I am contractually bound anytime

1:01:39

we talk about predestination to make

1:01:42

this sound Okay,

1:01:45

so for the listeners let's go ahead and get

1:01:47

out of the way for those who may not

1:01:49

know What is the doctrine of predestination predestination is

1:01:51

the belief that God? That

1:01:54

like your life is

1:01:56

planned out right that God like

1:01:58

you are there object of wrath

1:02:00

and they're objects of God's love.

1:02:03

And some people are made to be objects

1:02:05

of wrath, and some people are

1:02:08

just like, they're we're always going to hell. And

1:02:11

you if you were a believer, that

1:02:14

was always going to be known. And if you

1:02:16

were an object of wrath, that was always going

1:02:18

to be known. And there's no way for you to

1:02:20

get out of that. That's right. So this doctrine

1:02:22

comes from two passages of Paul's one in Romans,

1:02:24

Romans eight, and then in Ephesians chapter one, John

1:02:27

Calvin, if you've heard of Calvinism,

1:02:29

this is rooted in that. And it's the

1:02:32

Reformed tradition. You

1:02:34

know, I always go back to you, to

1:02:36

me, the reason and I know if

1:02:39

you're listening in, Calvinists welcome. Maybe not

1:02:41

going to have a good hang. It's

1:02:43

going to be hard here for us

1:02:45

because we really lean on the studied

1:02:47

nature of God. And when you

1:02:49

look at the nature of God, we'll go back to

1:02:51

the beginning. Let's start right out of the gate, Genesis,

1:02:53

when you're looking at Cain and Abel, and

1:02:57

you have before Cain kills

1:03:00

Abel, God says to him

1:03:02

and ask him, why aren't, and I'm paraphrasing,

1:03:04

why aren't you doing better? Why are you

1:03:06

doing better? So either if you believe in

1:03:08

a predestined, because right predestination

1:03:11

tells us that past history

1:03:13

is like a domino, a TikTok, and you have

1:03:15

choices, but they were already predetermined. So you chose,

1:03:17

but your choice was determined

1:03:19

by natural causality of history, right?

1:03:21

That you have no control over. You

1:03:23

can do what you want, but your wants are

1:03:26

predetermined by history. And

1:03:28

so if that is true,

1:03:31

then God is in this passage, out

1:03:33

of the gate, misleading

1:03:35

or deceptive. And so

1:03:37

if you look at the whole of scripture,

1:03:40

that is not who God is. God is not

1:03:42

misleading or deceptive. And that's okay

1:03:44

if you want to believe, like if you can

1:03:46

lean into that, lean into it all the way.

1:03:48

But here at Faith at Jason, we do not

1:03:50

lean into that nature of God. We

1:03:52

believe, because even if you go to Romans, but

1:03:55

you have that passage where Paul

1:03:57

is talking to the pagans and he's saying invisible,

1:03:59

see, are known by looking

1:04:02

all around, right? God's in

1:04:04

the trees. And he says,

1:04:06

Calvinists will say, like, well, no,

1:04:08

they have a good reason not to know because

1:04:10

they will never know. They're predetermined not to know.

1:04:12

But Paul says to them, no, you look around,

1:04:14

you'll see it, you'll see God. He's trying to

1:04:16

evangelize to them. Why would he do that? And

1:04:19

I know you would come in and go, well,

1:04:21

no, he's evangelizing to the predetermined. And

1:04:23

it's just, it's where we're gonna, we're gonna

1:04:25

not. Two roads diverge in a way. Two

1:04:27

roads. And listen, it is complicated. I do

1:04:30

not pretend when I think

1:04:32

about our steady Calvinism, it is not

1:04:34

an easy road. There are passages that

1:04:36

would support. But I think in

1:04:38

the same way, there are passages that support like,

1:04:41

listen, you can find anything. The other thing is, I'll

1:04:44

say, because I like the part of the question that Jeanette

1:04:46

asked, which is, you know, how does free will and shaping

1:04:48

society and then the way that society

1:04:50

circles back to shape our will, right? So I like

1:04:52

to think of it like this. I always go back

1:04:54

to my example for this always is Jan, my mother.

1:04:57

Now, my mom Jan in 1973, she would have been

1:04:59

married three years. She's 24 years old. She would not

1:05:04

have been able to open a credit card

1:05:06

in her own name because it

1:05:08

was illegal. Yeah. Okay. That's capitalism

1:05:10

and patriarchy working against her.

1:05:13

So that is her free will is I would like

1:05:15

to open a credit card. Patriarchy

1:05:17

says, no, you cannot, right? Until the next

1:05:19

year when it passes as a law. The

1:05:21

same is Jan in 1987. She

1:05:23

would have been 38 years old, have two

1:05:25

kids. She may have wanted to

1:05:28

start a business. She was a legal secretary. She

1:05:30

saved enough money. She wants to start a quilting

1:05:32

business. Guess what? She could not start a quilting

1:05:34

business in her own name. It was illegal in

1:05:36

1987. It takes until 1988 for them to pass

1:05:41

a law that can just let women have

1:05:44

a business in their own name. So

1:05:46

when people talk to me about patriarchy

1:05:49

being a thing of the past, you're

1:05:51

right. The recent past, the

1:05:53

re like now, like, like now, like in

1:05:55

the grand scope of time. And also not

1:05:58

in the grand scope. That's right. That's right.

1:06:00

So that to me is the way that

1:06:02

society can shape because sometimes we don't

1:06:04

have We don't have

1:06:06

free will you know, I mean, yeah, I think

1:06:08

I think that Like I think

1:06:11

we can only make the choices that are available to us

1:06:13

and sometimes that means we are limited by our own imaginations

1:06:15

and As to what those

1:06:17

are and sometimes we are limited by what society

1:06:19

decides our choices are like I just don't think

1:06:21

like we I mean, like I said

1:06:23

earlier like we can't even imagine a society But

1:06:26

that would be fulfilling without capitalism Like

1:06:28

even in Barbie land when they are

1:06:30

like winning their Nobel Peace Prize It's like what problems

1:06:32

would they have been solving if it's supposed to be

1:06:34

this utopia? So I just think like I Love

1:06:38

when I love when Ruth says To

1:06:40

her when she's like I want to be a human is

1:06:43

can I do that? She's like well, I'm

1:06:46

I can't control you like you're not

1:06:48

you're not my Puppet

1:06:52

like because and I think

1:06:54

that's where I have a problem with Predestination

1:06:57

if that is true, then the

1:07:00

love the relationship that I have

1:07:02

with God is not real love

1:07:05

Right. It's not it is I'm his puppet

1:07:08

and any love that I have is not genuine

1:07:10

Right and then that to me the whole thing

1:07:12

falls apart. That's where it falls apart for me

1:07:14

I know and so I think I think that's

1:07:16

that's really where I get tripped up With

1:07:19

with predestination. Well and society in general,

1:07:22

we're often having different experiences, right? It goes

1:07:24

back to your comment

1:07:26

about intersectionality, right like

1:07:30

Ken's experience with the police when they're arrested

1:07:32

was very different than Barbie's experience with the

1:07:34

police and when they when they came to

1:07:37

Like when they first started rollerblading, right? Like he was

1:07:39

like, I'm I feel respected and there's no undercurrent violence

1:07:41

She's like definitely an undercurrent of violence for me And

1:07:44

that's literally one of my favorite quotes in the film

1:07:46

when she explained to the construction crew that they do

1:07:48

not have genitals And so

1:07:50

and they were like no problem and I love that

1:07:52

also But that's also

1:07:54

an experience that happens to you, you

1:07:57

know people who are black. Yeah, they have a

1:07:59

different an experience, oh, did you get pulled over

1:08:01

and it was lovely? Great. That doesn't happen to everybody.

1:08:04

Like, I don't know what to tell you. There's a

1:08:06

system at fault. And it doesn't mean that that specific

1:08:08

police officer is an a-hole, but it doesn't mean that

1:08:10

there's a system full of a-holes that tries to breed

1:08:13

a-holes. You know what I'm saying? And so there are

1:08:15

systemic issues at play. I don't know if you've heard

1:08:17

of the church, but there

1:08:19

are systemic issues at play. Yeah, right. I

1:08:21

think that's tough. Okay, last question. This is

1:08:24

from Bethany Mathis. I saw clear themes of

1:08:26

deconstruction in the movie example, living certain about

1:08:28

the world in which you exist, having a

1:08:30

realization of truth and not being able to turn

1:08:32

back, making the choice to walk through it and choosing

1:08:34

the messy uncertainty of life, then remain

1:08:37

in the perfect bubble. Would love to hear

1:08:39

you break this down further and explore how

1:08:41

Barbie can inform our own deconstruction journey. Okay,

1:08:43

give me your thoughts on this initially. What

1:08:45

really resonated with me is that in the

1:08:47

movie, Barbie is

1:08:50

not trying to bring Barbie

1:08:52

land back to its original

1:08:54

state because she

1:08:56

knows things now, right? There

1:08:59

is a whole new way

1:09:01

that we are going to restructure Barbie land

1:09:03

based on what we know, based on truths

1:09:05

that we know. Okay, so I also think

1:09:07

that's true in our deconstruction journey, right? We're

1:09:10

not going to go back to where we were. That's not the

1:09:12

point of this. We don't want to

1:09:14

go back to where we were before we

1:09:17

understood things about scripture or about

1:09:19

God or whatever. We're moving forward.

1:09:21

I also think in the grand narrative

1:09:24

of scripture and in the grand narrative of like

1:09:26

God's love for us, we're not trying to get

1:09:28

back to Eden, right?

1:09:30

Like we're trying to, we're

1:09:33

new creations. We are

1:09:35

being resurrected from something. It's

1:09:37

not a, we're going back to the

1:09:39

point where we didn't know the thing. Yeah,

1:09:41

it's new. And so that's

1:09:43

what, that is what really spoke to me

1:09:45

in the movie in relation to deconstruction.

1:09:48

What about you? Listen, for me, this was,

1:09:50

I said, Oh, cause I really watched

1:09:52

it with this question in mind. This was, I mean,

1:09:54

I'm so thankful for this Bethany. This was such a

1:09:57

great question. So when I started rewatching this, I thought

1:09:59

about my own. Deconstruction journey where I

1:10:01

have gone and look it was like

1:10:03

this movie. It was so painful It

1:10:05

was like I was living in my

1:10:07

own life, but I wasn't hot

1:10:09

Margot Robbie Okay, so the moment

1:10:12

where she's at the party. We're having a

1:10:14

great time We're at the women's retreat and

1:10:16

we're having an amazing time and then suddenly

1:10:18

someone goes do you ever think about dying?

1:10:21

Yeah, and like suddenly all of everything stops,

1:10:23

right? And they're like and

1:10:25

all of a sudden in the movie doubt becomes

1:10:27

a disease to be fixed Right.

1:10:29

And so that is what happens in our circles a

1:10:31

lot of times. There's like no no you said we

1:10:34

didn't talk to the pastor He'll be like me feel

1:10:36

better about this and even like a little moment where

1:10:38

Barbie doesn't question Why there's

1:10:40

no water in the juice glass? But

1:10:43

she doesn't question that until she experienced and she's like, oh

1:10:46

There's usually not there's usually not water in

1:10:48

that when I drink like we suddenly

1:10:50

we just go through the risk Like oh, this

1:10:52

is all great. I love this I don't know

1:10:54

and so she goes to weird Barbie to fix

1:10:57

her doubt right and weird

1:10:59

Barbie represents right everybody like

1:11:02

She represents the somebody that's seen things and knows

1:11:04

things and like is gonna maybe help her understand

1:11:07

it But of course she wants to choose the

1:11:09

high hill immediately. I love that so much Yeah,

1:11:11

it's so true because it's like a lot of

1:11:13

us there are many times even now I'll go

1:11:15

it's nice to go back Oh, I think

1:11:17

about it all the time. I think it would just be

1:11:19

so simple. It would be so simple just to be on

1:11:23

Like the growth track team and I wouldn't have to

1:11:25

think about you know or being on the the Greeter

1:11:28

team and not have to think about all the hard

1:11:30

things that were going on behind the scenes, right? And

1:11:32

then I think about the people who choose the hill.

1:11:34

I think we have a lot of Christian speakers who

1:11:37

bury their heads Me

1:11:40

the example of this is if you ever

1:11:42

go back and listen to our episode about

1:11:44

Esther We did a season on Esther and

1:11:46

you can hear me Crumbling

1:11:48

you're panicking you could hear me going

1:11:50

my feet are flat What

1:11:53

are you doing? Cuz both of you were trying to ruin

1:11:55

my life Suggesting that this

1:11:57

was no made-up story and it was like I

1:11:59

could feel it all falling

1:12:01

apart around me and starting to feel

1:12:04

uglier moment by moment. And look, everyone

1:12:06

in Barbie Land is very much the

1:12:08

same. She leaves and her awareness is

1:12:10

expanded. For me, this was so many

1:12:12

areas in my life over 48 years

1:12:15

of going to college and having queer friends

1:12:17

and black friends and people who were Muslim

1:12:19

and people who are Jewish and having like

1:12:22

intimate relationships with them and going, oh,

1:12:25

they're not awful. And they have

1:12:27

just seen, they just see the world differently. And

1:12:29

they've had different experiences than me. And maybe I

1:12:31

have a lot of privilege that I have not

1:12:33

recognized in my own life. And

1:12:35

then Ken being introduced, one of my favorite

1:12:37

moments of this is Ken being introduced to

1:12:39

the patriarchy in the montage. And

1:12:42

I thought this, the way that they treated

1:12:44

that was a very sympathetic. I think people

1:12:46

have misunderstood this movie for so long because

1:12:49

that's a very sympathetic treatment to Ken of

1:12:51

like, he's just being presented with images that

1:12:53

do seem great. And he's,

1:12:55

they don't even seem harmful. He's just responding

1:12:58

to the message he's seeing. That was my

1:13:00

whole life in church. I was just responding

1:13:02

to the message. This does feel good when

1:13:04

we sing better as one day. And I

1:13:06

think that is so key because I think

1:13:08

a lot of times we hate or

1:13:10

are so ashamed of that version of

1:13:12

ourselves. Yeah. Well, of course, look

1:13:15

at Barbie. Barbie gets told by Sasha, how

1:13:17

many of us, we have Sasha's in our lives. Like

1:13:19

we could name Sasha's in our life. We can be

1:13:21

Sasha's to ourselves. We can't. But Sasha

1:13:23

comes and says, hey, you

1:13:26

are problematic in a lot of ways. And

1:13:28

so Barbie goes and cries about, I'm a

1:13:30

Sasha. She kind of is a fascist. Like

1:13:33

if you think about Barbie in consumerism and

1:13:35

capitalism, yes, there's a lot of problematic consequences

1:13:38

that come with that. I think a lot of us went through that

1:13:40

in 2020. We were like, oh, am

1:13:43

I part of the problem? Am I racist? I got

1:13:45

to listen and learn. I got to listen and learn

1:13:47

as a man, right? And start a black

1:13:49

owned business. Like I got to do all these things. Right.

1:13:53

And then when Barbie goes to Mattel and thinks they're

1:13:55

on her side. Oh yeah. Listen, I

1:13:57

sat in a room when I went

1:13:59

to pass. There's at my church and I

1:14:01

thought they were on my sides In literally

1:14:03

One of them said none of this will

1:14:05

change with a better twelve just given the

1:14:07

box said. Get. In the bought

1:14:09

it on the bus and is a

1:14:12

look. I am in a small group

1:14:14

right now with the sweetest, loveliest women

1:14:16

and it has been the most Uri

1:14:18

experience that has been the delight at

1:14:20

his. Surprise me so much because it

1:14:23

smells and feels like all the old

1:14:25

things. but I also see women. you

1:14:27

are. wondering. And

1:14:29

curious. And. Are like when I say the

1:14:31

weird thing. In. The group which I do

1:14:33

every week I had one of them come

1:14:35

up to me in a in a different

1:14:37

situation and sites have a lot of getting

1:14:40

to know you and I'm like I'm the

1:14:42

weirdo in their life I'm a Barbie that

1:14:44

we're Barbie in their life and they they

1:14:46

were not experience for this and even like

1:14:48

when Barbie give them car with Gloria who

1:14:50

has now her sherpa right who's gonna guide

1:14:52

her through this process I think about you

1:14:54

and knocks being my Gloria like going get

1:14:56

in the car but on your seat belt

1:14:58

or about how real life of allied out

1:15:00

and then for me. Like. We.

1:15:02

Can see all of that that were all trapped in

1:15:04

systems rights of people when they're changing the constitution. I

1:15:06

felt that like a thought that like I'm like oh

1:15:09

we think this is fine and I think some of

1:15:11

us have been in that were like. Hey.

1:15:13

I know I'm pro life but there were

1:15:15

like wait I've yes. Yeah. Thanks

1:15:17

guys! Look at must have rules com and

1:15:19

net less you'd suddenly go away. Wait, no

1:15:22

no, no, not all that because we're in

1:15:24

me systems right? and it's complex to unravel.

1:15:26

Assist them. And then of course. I

1:15:28

mean you get a bit even party

1:15:30

collapsing. Listen, I have been the

1:15:32

party collapsing going, literally saying out

1:15:35

loud i'll wait until one of

1:15:37

them or leadership oriented Barbie Six

1:15:39

assists in reality. Your the leadership.

1:15:41

Where he had a Barbie and sometimes you

1:15:43

have to be the one that fixes it

1:15:45

even if it's only for yourself rights. And

1:15:48

so. I. Love of course

1:15:50

receive already. Have. Talked about that

1:15:52

about her being this kind of representative a

1:15:54

deity figure and her saying i can't control

1:15:56

you and she just says and ah like

1:15:58

when she says snail. Feel yeah, because

1:16:01

I think a lot of us were so

1:16:03

afraid to do that. Maybe it's from my

1:16:05

feelings repressed nature Well, we were told not

1:16:07

to that you're like this you well It's

1:16:09

it's all trust Holy Spirit trust Holy Spirit

1:16:12

right trust scripture and then it's like also

1:16:14

your heart is frickin evil Yeah,

1:16:17

if you can't trust it and so it's like what am

1:16:19

I okay? Well, I don't know what

1:16:21

I've been what am I supposed to do and

1:16:23

that if we think about it if we spend

1:16:25

any time With it. It's so in conflict with

1:16:27

we are created in the image of God Well

1:16:29

Paul says we have the mind of Christ. Yes,

1:16:31

like why would we fight that so hard? So

1:16:33

I would say in the deconstruction of it all

1:16:36

Listen deconstruction. I don't think ends I kept waiting

1:16:38

for it to end And

1:16:40

it and I think that's the beauty of it we

1:16:42

ourselves we will you will come to a point in

1:16:44

your life Not only religiously but in

1:16:46

every area of her life were like I really

1:16:49

like this weird part of myself Like

1:16:51

I really like this Part of

1:16:53

me that loves this thing and maybe I

1:16:55

always think of we have a friend Jordan

1:16:57

who freaking loves to quilt and she's like

1:17:01

30 years old and she's at these quilting conventions

1:17:03

with everyone over 80 including my mom Jan and

1:17:05

she's just like I love it I don't know

1:17:07

what to tell you and I like that's exactly

1:17:09

that's who you were. Yeah, that's who you should

1:17:11

be Like you will be honored in

1:17:13

being who you were created to be and I think

1:17:16

we fight that so much because we're like I have

1:17:18

to wear golden goose sneakers and it's like I want

1:17:20

to I want to wear flip-flops

1:17:22

every day Yeah, like where flip-flops

1:17:24

every day and so even in your face,

1:17:26

we're all clinging to something So I think

1:17:28

having grace for yourself and

1:17:31

having great the way that Gloria

1:17:34

Never condemns Marby Never

1:17:37

just shows meets her where she

1:17:39

is and slowly Just

1:17:41

takes her hand and goes a few steps further and

1:17:43

a few steps further The joy

1:17:45

of that of being who we can be that and

1:17:47

also to be fair having

1:17:50

grace For the people in

1:17:52

our lives who don't like what we're

1:17:54

experiencing and what we're going through I see a

1:17:56

lot of people who deconstruct who just are mad

1:17:58

at everyone who hasn't deconstructed all

1:18:00

the time and I think that's very unfair because again

1:18:03

we're all clinging to something yeah and we're just holding

1:18:05

on for dear life sometimes and so you have to

1:18:07

have grace for them yeah well for sure. All

1:18:10

right let's do one more question um this is

1:18:12

from Bethany on the go okay but the

1:18:14

song kind of sums it up what

1:18:16

was I made for I love that she asked us

1:18:19

this question we can we can

1:18:21

decide Bethany's purpose Bethany this is between you

1:18:23

and the Lord Jesus Christ and Holy

1:18:26

Spirit I am interested from you

1:18:28

like I mean I think this is a good question

1:18:30

like as you have

1:18:32

kind of gone through this deconstruction journey

1:18:34

yeah how has that how

1:18:37

has what you find your purpose as

1:18:39

a believer has that changed for you

1:18:41

you know it's funny like I

1:18:43

I learned early on in my life that I

1:18:46

went through as many of us did who grew

1:18:48

up in church I went through a spiritual gifts

1:18:50

assessment and every time I took that test and

1:18:52

listen I took it a lot because I did

1:18:54

not like the outcome every time because it was

1:18:57

it was teaching every time it was teaching and

1:18:59

it made me so mad because I thought that

1:19:01

man I had to teach kindergarten and I don't

1:19:03

want to do that I do not enjoy the

1:19:05

children and so although I do love a nice

1:19:08

seven to three schedule no I don't know but

1:19:10

I early for you I know but I

1:19:12

finally had somebody explain it to me they were like well no

1:19:14

it just means you can explain things in a way that people

1:19:16

understand and I was like okay

1:19:18

I'm interested in that and what happened

1:19:21

was I had also a spiritual director who said

1:19:23

it doesn't have to just apply to faith

1:19:25

it doesn't have to just apply to the Bible

1:19:28

it can also apply to like skincare or like

1:19:30

how to get to the taco place like

1:19:32

you can explain to people how to get places

1:19:35

or how to how to explain processes

1:19:37

to people and suddenly it made my

1:19:40

purpose feel differently I worked an

1:19:42

election for the first time I had applied I've applied for

1:19:44

years by the way and always been turned down really I

1:19:46

know and I was like is that I

1:19:48

don't have a criminal record I don't know about but I realized

1:19:50

it was because I was trying

1:19:53

to get on at an election site where

1:19:55

everyone was never leaving until they died and

1:19:57

so where I live now no one wants

1:19:59

to work polls. And so they were like,

1:20:01

you can work like immediately. And so listen, all

1:20:03

day, finally, at the end of the day, and

1:20:06

I'm not saying that this isn't a flex, but

1:20:08

the inspector said, you're very good at this. Like

1:20:10

you make people feel at ease,

1:20:12

and you explain things really well. And in my head, I

1:20:14

went, I know, because that's my purpose. Like,

1:20:17

that's what I was made for. And I think

1:20:19

all of us have something that we have, it

1:20:21

doesn't have to be a spiritual guest, necessarily. But

1:20:23

I think we all have things that we're good

1:20:26

at. And in and out of face spaces, they're

1:20:28

still very powerful. And I would

1:20:30

argue, still very sacred. Yeah. What

1:20:33

about you? I think for me, you know,

1:20:35

growing up, it was, you got to tell

1:20:37

people about Jesus, you got to tell people that Jesus, that is your

1:20:39

purpose, that is your purpose, that is your purpose. And

1:20:42

I don't disagree with that necessarily.

1:20:44

But I think, I think it

1:20:46

became such a legalistic thing, that

1:20:49

the when I

1:20:52

was untangling and doing all of the, you

1:20:54

know, metaphors or whatever, I think

1:20:56

for me, I actually went back to,

1:20:59

and this is surprising, to a

1:21:01

John Piper idea, where in

1:21:05

one of his books is called The Christian Hedonist. And

1:21:08

I always liked that concept of

1:21:10

this idea of like being so

1:21:13

like, like,

1:21:15

just gluttonous about loving God.

1:21:18

Yeah, like just like it

1:21:20

is it is so it's just dripping off

1:21:22

of you, you're, it's just the thing that

1:21:25

you luxuriate in. And I've always

1:21:27

thought that to be such a really

1:21:29

fascinating concept, especially coming from

1:21:31

him. But that's a whole other thing

1:21:33

to unpack anyway. But I think like

1:21:35

this idea of like, just letting

1:21:39

God love you, and

1:21:41

letting that love inform everything

1:21:43

you do, has really

1:21:46

been what I have

1:21:48

felt like

1:21:50

has really just been the thing that's informed everything

1:21:53

that I do. Well, I can say it has

1:21:55

because it was a reason I was willing to

1:21:57

get in the Chevy with you because I've seen

1:21:59

in your life. that like

1:22:01

you weren't abandoning who God was.

1:22:03

You were abandoning some of the

1:22:05

systems and some of the things that you had

1:22:07

been taught by men, not just males,

1:22:11

by humans, and some

1:22:14

of the habitual things that we

1:22:16

become a part of that we don't ever

1:22:18

question. You had abandoned some of those things,

1:22:20

but you had never abandoned your

1:22:23

your affection for who God

1:22:25

is and who God is in

1:22:27

Scripture. And so for me that was

1:22:29

like, oh there is a path. And

1:22:31

listen, I don't think that that's

1:22:34

everybody's path. But I think

1:22:36

if you're somebody who wants

1:22:38

to say there is a place

1:22:40

where you can stay very attached to a

1:22:42

loving and a kind and a gentle God,

1:22:45

but not necessarily attached to the systems

1:22:47

that have manipulated him and used him

1:22:49

and propped him up for their own

1:22:51

power and their own gain, I think

1:22:54

there's something really beautiful about that. And so

1:22:56

I happily, happily ride in the backseat of

1:22:58

your Chevy. Get in the Chevy. Let's all

1:23:00

get in the Chevy. Let's go. Okay, well

1:23:02

we have talked a lot today. I can't

1:23:04

believe that, I mean, good for us. Okay,

1:23:07

so let's create the movie. We

1:23:09

are talking about this movie. What is it for you? 100.

1:23:12

It's 100. 100 for me. 100.

1:23:15

I love it. It's a great experience. We love

1:23:17

you Greta. Greta, come on the show. Greta,

1:23:19

we would love it. Let's talk about the

1:23:22

Lord. Let's talk about Catholicism. Do it in

1:23:24

Unitarian Universalism. Oh my gosh, yes, for sure.

1:23:26

We want to do it. Okay, that is

1:23:28

going to do it for this episode of

1:23:30

Facebook J-Pitch. Alright you guys, one of the

1:23:32

best things, if you've enjoyed this episode specifically,

1:23:34

one of the nicest things that you can

1:23:37

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1:23:53

Jamie Golden. You can find me on Instagram

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Moon. You can find me on the interwebs

1:23:59

at... and don't forget to follow Face

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you next time. Bye guys. Bye

1:24:06

guys.