0:00

youre listening to w l t to

0:06

Homemade radio.

0:09

If

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we met at a cocktail party, how would you describe

0:11

yourself? My name is Guy

0:14

story from Mississippi, have

0:17

lived in New York city for a very long time. I

0:20

i to be in the tech industry

0:22

for many many years and

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I have recently quit working

0:27

and have a rock band.

0:29

when i quit working on

0:33

wondering i was super clear about was i wanted

0:35

to start a band and write songs

0:37

and make music and so you know

0:40

i haven't achieved world fame and i

0:42

did seems unclear whether that's

0:44

ever going to happen but hum

0:47

i get a lot out of the

0:50

sense of discovery of making something

0:52

new is gratifying

0:55

and exciting and and

0:57

vexing and challenging

0:59

him are fulfilling all those all

1:01

those things

1:03

the idea of a sense of discovery i think is it

1:05

is a great segue for us to start talking about

1:08

this story because this

1:10

is just dory you discovered

1:13

this point well about two years ago

1:15

the march of two thousand twenty one

1:20

this is a story that i had

1:22

no clue about and

1:25

now all the people who knew about

1:27

it or are dead and

1:29

ah so i have so have almost nobody

1:32

to talk to really and nobody there to

1:34

get more info from my

1:38

grandfather my father's father died

1:40

when my father was ten years old so i never

1:42

knew him his ,

1:44

eugene you've seen story and

1:48

and of last year two thousand and twenty

1:50

one my one gave

1:53

story just out of potter nowhere

1:55

sent me an email apparently

1:58

when i was a kid teenager something

2:01

at , family gathering my father

2:04

had come up to gay with a newspaper

2:06

clippings you pulled out of his pocket that

2:08

had some story about about

2:11

grandfather brooks grandfather about

2:14

something in a related

2:16

to a or something

2:19

that great and showed it to gay

2:21

and said he hadn't told me or my

2:23

brother about

2:25

the cause he was afraid

2:27

it would upset us

2:29

so then gay ,

2:31

this info away away

2:34

decades never mentioned it so

2:37

she was worried it was gonna upset the still

2:39

she was worried so she

2:42

reached out privately to my

2:44

sister in law shannon said

2:46

hey shannon in order genealogy

2:48

reserves have you er ,

2:50

you come across any kind of you

2:53

know know negative

2:55

stuff about brooks or his brother

2:58

and san and Said no.

3:05

Given this little clue from

3:07

my cousin. Gay Shannon

3:09

started

3:11

doing some Google searches. Where, you

3:13

know, if you if you Google the brook story,

3:16

Desperado, female,

3:18

Mississippi, then all the sudden

3:20

you got a zillion hits dislike

3:23

, plain sight, you know, this this

3:26

story. So you just have to think to add

3:28

Desperado. your search yeah he did when

3:30

new to ask for see how you just gotta so

3:33

is this a tip for everybody you know you're

3:35

searching for anything throw anything desperado

3:38

on occasions just in case yeah the

3:41

growing a rolling me the family

3:43

history dice

3:47

the then shannon said wow with

3:49

you know i found some stuff of

3:51

special dispatched to the appeal jackson

3:55

mississippi february fourteenth

3:57

clarion ledger nato forces

4:00

what's the submit

4:03

on the night of our

4:07

he had a teacher had direct mississippi

4:11

and rod the

4:18

overpowered the jailer whose wife

4:20

and fired at that fleeing fugitives

4:22

of february that detective jackson

4:25

track story through the jungle of yazoo

4:27

sunflower and into spotted

4:30

in locating him locating the house of

4:32

a farmer forty the terror to rest

4:35

is jaded horse and en route

4:37

to jail after jail severe struggle

4:39

against and certificate sister

4:46

the is referred to as them most famous

4:49

desperado from mississippi at the

4:51

time at

4:53

some point i stumbled upon the fact that books

4:55

his younger brother eugene had

4:58

been convicted of murdering the

5:00

guy and was hanged in

5:03

a public hanging in

5:05

lexington mississippi and i thought

5:07

wow that is that is

5:09

a big thing and the my brother made of funny

5:12

comment to me that we have we share

5:14

on i think a y chromosome

5:17

with her sparano any

5:19

and a murderer

5:21

so let me ask you then you know going

5:23

back to this the idea that

5:26

your dad

5:28

new something about

5:31

this it never really

5:34

talk to you about it because he was worried it would

5:36

upset you it it

5:38

upset you name

5:46

not that i condone armed

5:49

robbery or murder recently

5:52

don't go don't record and say that

5:54

have cried you

5:58

know the the news went through the fan please

6:00

and then it was all this email threads and stuff

6:02

about it my

6:05

wife and i have two kids

6:07

who were teenagers and my brother

6:10

has four kids

6:12

teenagers and young adults and

6:15

my cousin gay hoopoe

6:17

was still kind of imprinted with this

6:20

this idea that this might be shameful

6:23

or upsetting she

6:26

sent me an email said she was she

6:28

felt bad that , had

6:30

even texas off because now the kids

6:32

new and that she was worried that they were upset

6:35

so it's so interesting thing

6:38

that sense that

6:42

this would be upsetting to people

6:46

from wl tsm and pure x

6:48

you're listening to family ghosts i'm

6:51

handymen after , break

6:53

a mississippi story

7:05

i thought why going to write a song sombra i'm

7:07

a songwriter so i gotta write a song about us as

7:09

to interesting

7:11

i was trying to figure out what is the saw had an

7:14

unwanted song just like

7:16

the ballot of books story and just

7:18

telling the right you know it's a straightforward

7:21

you know telling a story and then i thought

7:24

you know my grandfather who my never knew

7:26

was i think four years

7:28

old when his father was convicted

7:31

and he spent most of his up you know

7:33

most of his childhood the

7:35

and twelve years his father was a

7:38

famous desperado and

7:41

was in and out of jail he kept escaping

7:44

in their be shoot outs and then he'd get

7:46

recaptured or he'd stay out for

7:48

a while and then him roam around

7:50

the country and then he'd come back and visit

7:52

his family and i thought

7:54

wow what wow what for a

7:56

kid to have whereabouts

7:58

are your father as as i

8:01

thought i never knew my grandfather eugene

8:03

and i would write us about him the

8:05

song would be addressed to him

8:13

no matter whom

8:17

bodies , i know

8:19

you

9:18

we're writing

9:32

no way am i

9:48

i want to ask you in specifically

9:51

in the song in the chorus

9:53

you say you know

9:55

eugene and that despite

9:57

everything he's done he loves

10:01

and what's behind that it

10:03

seemed like the

10:06

the the way that brooks

10:08

got depicted in all the zillion

10:11

our newspaper articles

10:13

irina he was a mixed character

10:15

but he stayed connected to

10:17

his family and so i

10:20

just figured the thing is one

10:22

was heap i think he probably didn't love

10:24

his family and in this was me know

10:26

this was kind of unfortunate that

10:28

he was he knows

10:30

supposed to spend years and the penitentiary

10:33

and also just i

10:36

think i probably speculated that for

10:39

eugene my grandfather he

10:41

he probably needed to needed to know

10:44

that his father cared about him in

10:46

their system to provide him yes

10:48

him kind of us you

10:52

know stable emotional existence

10:55

or something it's

10:57

tempting for me to see

11:00

not maybe not a connection but some

11:02

interesting interlace thing i suppose

11:05

with the idea that

11:07

this was a story that was

11:10

not shared with you until

11:13

you were much older and

11:17

in the song what

11:19

your quote unquote doing

11:22

you know obviously eugene can

11:24

literally hear the song but you know depending on

11:27

what you believe hopefully he can hear you're

11:29

providing him not just with the story

11:33

that with a loving interpretation

11:37

his father the what

11:39

you've received his the idea that you can't

11:41

know this story because it well make

11:44

you upset perhaps

11:46

not love your family the way

11:48

that you otherwise would you're

11:51

doing both

11:53

for him you're saying here is the story

11:55

and also it does not change the fact

11:58

that your father loves he these two things coexist

12:02

yeah that's a very good point and i think that's

12:05

has hours trying to get

12:07

into the mindset of talking

12:10

to my grandfather about

12:12

person commiserating

12:15

your or something

12:18

i had that feeling like you know still

12:21

your family's tell your father

12:23

i want to go back go to the the verb

12:25

you used when you were talking about what

12:28

you're doing in the song he said commiserating

12:31

was very interesting verb to use

12:34

the wind to interpret that too

12:37

mean that the narrator in

12:39

the song who's telling the

12:41

story giving this information to

12:44

eugene do imagine that as you

12:46

yourself

12:48

the i've i imagine it as me myself

12:50

i never go look in the lyrics and see whether i actually

12:52

give any more hip to that but

12:55

you know kind of connecting it with our earlier

12:58

on the other earlier discussion

13:00

about whether i this is upsetting or not

13:03

to me it's like

13:05

i am a descendant of this guy and i

13:07

have the same and i have an ancestor

13:10

with from asus checkered past and so

13:13

on you know it know it it in a way

13:15

it is some kind of the

13:19

no celebration but as an acknowledgement

13:22

of family and family bonds

13:26

the even in the midst of adversity

13:28

for complication do

13:31

you view

13:33

the fact that your dad

13:37

the didn't share this with you all

13:40

as an act of love

13:42

the

13:47

yeah the i think so

13:50

my father was a child

13:53

of depressing then

13:56

was in the army and world war two and

13:59

you know sort of

14:00

sec okay now he's gonna make

14:02

things better self

14:04

and particularly for his kids near the

14:06

kids are supposed to now rise

14:09

another level and hum

14:11

so i'm gonna speculate

14:14

that he he just

14:16

he didn't want he

14:19

didn't want us burdened by this past

14:21

it's interesting to me that

14:24

he don't we had this big family with

14:27

these big stories

14:30

who were living in cause the us go mississippi

14:32

which isn't the sort of the center of

14:34

the state and

14:36

my grandfather you'd see moved

14:38

away from kasi ask how they move

14:40

south mississippi

14:42

to get away from other

15:16

so

15:22

my father grew up in will not a little town

15:24

in south mississippi and

15:27

that's where are you genes wife

15:31

daisy by grandmother lived and

15:34

so that was where we will go visit

15:36

daisy that was where my father grew up that was

15:38

where our roots were so to speak nobody

15:41

ever mentioned tansy us go we never

15:43

went to kasi us go i've been to cause yes

15:45

go maybe twice in my life

15:47

everybody just shut that down

15:50

everybody who knew my father

15:52

had three siblings i'm sure they all knew

15:54

the story and daisy

15:57

as well and nobody mentioned it so

16:00

it was really like they were

16:02

just a writ trying to erase it from

16:04

the the family history

16:07

and and move on and

16:09

not be tainted by are not

16:11

be upset by at my whatever whatever

16:15

else might be you

16:17

know negative know negative effect of

16:19

it yes and yes

16:21

and yet you shared it with your

16:23

own kids right away yeah

16:26

way what what what prompted

16:28

you to do that

16:31

it was just that it was that instant

16:34

fascination with the story and

16:36

enough ah the fact that have been held

16:39

have withheld from us are just enough

16:41

i couldn't wait to tell somebody about it

16:44

in fact i was mentioning that

16:46

i was gonna be talking to you to my

16:49

daughter and we

16:51

were sort of replaying

16:53

this whole scene with gay and

16:55

my dad had , family

16:57

gathering and and my daughter as

16:59

me was i upset when i heard this

17:01

news in on us as the even now

17:04

i was a subsets so

17:06

sad i mean

17:10

actually i did ask myself like at what

17:12

point do not feel it's if my if i

17:14

discovered my father while i was like

17:16

alive with for a living with my father

17:19

and my father got convicted of other

17:21

solomon you know i would be

17:23

ashamed of that i think our our a would

17:25

be it would be very difficult thing

17:28

to accept and to know whether i could talk

17:30

about it

17:32

i've wondered like at what point does it become

17:35

fascinating and terrible versus

17:37

something that you sent a keep to

17:39

yourself and don't wanna don't want to share

17:44

the time is a is a great

17:46

launderer of ah shame

17:52

and

17:54

we ghosts will continue in a moment

18:13

the me it's also interesting that

18:15

you discovered this

18:17

additional

18:20

the ranch in the story of your

18:22

family the

18:24

time in your life when you

18:28

let sort of one life behind

18:30

and set out on a new path

18:33

let your career in tech and are now focused

18:36

on music is

18:39

there a sense in which you

18:42

or discovering new facets

18:45

of yourself as you discover

18:47

new facets of your family history

18:51

do those things and for me today

18:53

i

18:56

will say that

18:57

the you know i have i've lived most

19:00

of my life in new york city and

19:03

yet you know i feel this deep

19:05

connection with the south i'm like i'm

19:07

i'm a i'm a southerner

19:13

but my father was not released those

19:15

kind of an introvert and a socially

19:18

awkward guy and not very every time

19:20

i asked him about his childhood he just never

19:22

really told me much i you know he

19:25

, not have have gregarious

19:28

talker sharing a zillion

19:30

stories that would sell would

19:33

what life was like growing up like mississippi

19:36

and so having up this

19:38

is vivid stuff all the sudden show

19:40

up was kind of for me just really

19:43

kind of great because i feel

19:45

great my picture of

19:48

his family and they're growing up and

19:50

and that growing very kind

19:52

of minimal that

19:54

laughing and color and so will

19:57

and it will don't want to lose sight

19:59

of the fact that it if

20:01

if i'm

20:02

remembering a timeline correctly your father

20:05

lost his father when

20:07

he was ten right yep yep

20:11

so yes and yes souls

20:19

yeah

20:23

yeah that's right

20:35

my father did a bunch of genealogy

20:38

research later in his

20:40

life in and i remember his

20:43

calling me you know the names

20:45

of his

20:46

his grandfather brooks and

20:49

yet he didn't mention the any of this

20:51

stuff so i

20:53

get the word was his father was kind

20:55

of strict maybe his his

20:57

father eugene the one that i sing too

21:02

was you

21:04

know in an attempt to the you know

21:07

set things right after

21:09

the sort of the scandal

21:11

of his of his father and uncle

21:14

the got very

21:16

see mckenna locked everything down my

21:18

father was kind of a locked down micromanager

21:22

emotionally , can guide and

21:24

then my father lost his father and so so

21:27

are no i guess there was a sort of a survive

21:30

and make it work ethic

21:33

the system one of the

21:35

reasons that

21:37

i'm fascinated by this story for semi

21:39

ghosts is as you pointed

21:42

out on it's face it's just a fascinating

21:44

narrative that also

21:47

it puts his finger on this

21:50

idea that i think is at the heart of almost

21:52

every story that we do which is

21:55

there are these stories and elements

21:57

of our family histories that get withheld

22:00

and it is very easy

22:02

for folks have later generation the

22:05

look back at that withholding and

22:07

feel they were

22:10

robbed of something or not understand

22:14

why these

22:16

things wouldn't have been shared

22:18

and it's very

22:20

easy to lose sight of the

22:23

privilege that accompanies being alive

22:25

and a time when you

22:27

can acknowledge the ugly or parts

22:29

of history and

22:31

also pulled the empathy for

22:33

the people who the traded that ugliness

22:36

or were associated with that ugliness that

22:40

what not always so then

22:43

maybe a in i don't know if i have that

22:46

the authority to say this but maybe especially

22:48

in the south yeah

22:51

both

22:56

my parents came from

22:58

the little towns in mississippi poor

23:01

families and

23:03

there was this sense of i sort

23:05

of class system in mississippi amongst

23:07

or white folks you know the white folks who were

23:11

from , delta who had

23:13

lot of money and then folks

23:16

folks in the pine forests in the south for

23:18

my father was from or the red

23:20

clay hills where my mother came from where

23:23

for where the land wasn't so good and

23:27

they were trying to make

23:29

themselves succeed

23:32

in a world where they

23:34

were a ton of of of

23:36

lower class and away

23:38

and amongst the whites and

23:41

there was this kind of pervasive feeling of

23:43

like trying to do everything right

23:46

and be above reproach

23:49

and , the rules that

23:51

was kind of the kind of family vibe

23:54

and and so he added

23:56

as a mix with say irvine

23:58

away and else

24:02

recap is crazy this craziness

24:04

you know craziness and ,

24:07

and prime and murder and

24:10

on the run and shoot outs and

24:13

the not the sort of thing that would have helped

24:15

them succeed and this the

24:18

middle class society in mississippi

24:28

i struggle with being

24:30

you know an introvert in having some of the same

24:32

qualities as my father and support of song

24:35

writing for me is to sign of unlock

24:38

myself and get get

24:40

, i'm feeling out there and

24:42

and seen a mock with it and

24:45

see it and explore it and expressive

24:47

and and those sorts of things sorts

24:51

i guess in a way i'm a mano

24:53

a mano like a personal quest to to

24:55

do more of that and can of tomato

24:57

my own shell and

25:00

, was imposed by this sort of

25:02

locked down on

25:04

aspect of mine

25:06

the family and so

25:08

finding a story like this it's

25:10

almost like is liberating in town of

25:13

a weird way it's like wow there

25:15

was some crazy stuff going on there and

25:17

in our eyes are in it's my people

25:21

i'm always reminded and with stories

25:23

like this as one of my favorite

25:25

movies as magnolia and

25:27

there's that the current the

25:29

line in it we maybe through at the past

25:32

but the past isn't through with us and

25:35

it's such an example this story

25:37

of how you can attempt to

25:41

the press the reality

25:43

of who your forebears were the

25:45

end formulate this idea that

25:48

that legacy will not affect you even

25:52

your own dad he he

25:54

seemed to know in some in a way

25:56

that the needed to keep

25:58

some tangible action with

26:00

this in the form of this clipping

26:03

and literally and figuratively pass it

26:05

on at some point and i'm sure

26:07

in his head he couldn't move on a mini was

26:09

it was it was stuck with

26:12

him and he probably just didn't know

26:14

what to do with exactly well

26:16

and now there is this song

26:18

out in the world that

26:22

really leave

26:24

it all out there and don't out in a way

26:26

that is a much richer

26:29

emotional potent

26:32

howling than just a kind of dry

26:34

narrative on an old newspaper clipping

26:38

the to say like i am just and up

26:40

a fan of the song pure and simple i think it's an awesome

26:43

song and there's so many things about

26:45

at that the appeal to me

26:49

one of the things that i wanted to ask

26:51

you about this from a song craft

26:53

standpoint and whether or not there's any

26:55

tie into the narrative that we've

26:57

been discussing his

27:00

on that horace he

27:02

say eugene your father has

27:04

been seen and it's the

27:07

harmony on that is really beautiful

27:10

but it's also very it

27:12

strikes me as almost there's

27:15

something almost like church choir a about

27:17

it it it's so the

27:19

big and resident in it's so many

27:22

voices and i have this image of like

27:25

the light of truth like bursting through the clouds

27:29

oh that's nice that's nice and nice

27:31

wonder what your thought process

27:33

was in in building that that harmony

27:36

i think i had a sort of urged to

27:38

make it kind of and sammich and big

27:42

arm and it was like was like

27:44

a kind of it deeply

27:47

emotional reaching

27:49

out to eugene

27:51

you know about one of the things that struck

27:53

me was that there was as like a look in other so

27:56

many newspaper articles like zillions

27:58

of them really all across the three about

28:00

brooks and ,

28:03

on there was one where was just like a little tiny blurb

28:06

i was like out there was like a column of like just

28:08

blurbs of you know here's a here's of the you

28:10

know this happen this app and this up and in one of

28:12

them was booked story was seen

28:15

that was it and it thought

28:17

this guy was famous enough that was that

28:19

enough of fact that he was seen it all

28:22

was newsworthy and they didn't have to say

28:24

anything more about it i just thought that was kind

28:26

of remarkable so i

28:29

don't know that was sort of inspired there some

28:31

i thought you know here's

28:33

my grandfather

28:35

there's a kid and his father is

28:38

not home and he

28:40

doesn't know what he's gonna show up so

28:43

i just felt like he knows it

28:45

was kind of like a big reaching

28:48

out to him saying

28:50

you know your far is out there somewhere

28:53

and he loves you

28:57

last question i have for you ah

28:59

is you know we're

29:02

talking about this

29:05

story that the has

29:08

haunted your family for multiple

29:10

generations and

29:13

your last name is literally story the

29:16

you make anything of that

29:20

i'm

29:22

i would like to and people

29:24

like that name they think it's interesting

29:27

name but i can't say that

29:29

there's any kind of mystical

29:32

thing going on here i think

29:34

it's just an accident

29:37

the story of the stories stories

29:39

the source

30:10

he

30:25

thanks to this week's guest guys

30:28

find guys band at song

30:30

he to band dot com check

30:33

, notes for links to a blog post

30:35

he wrote to accompany the release of his song

30:38

as well as as well video

30:40

i also wishes to extend his gratitude

30:43

to his cousin gay brass his

30:45

, in law shit and story his

30:47

brother scott story and

30:49

the genealogy librarian at the atomic

30:52

county library and breedlove our

30:55

show art is by teddy blanks and

30:57

our theme song is by louis scary am

31:01

a ghost is made possible thanks

31:03

to the generous support of the kindred spirits

31:06

our community of supporters on patriarch

31:09

for just five dollars a month kindred

31:12

spirits get access to all

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31:19

that is not available anywhere else we

31:22

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31:24

support so if you have the means

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please consider joining the at patriotic

31:30

so , just just

31:33

he didn't have to be no worries please

31:35

consider supporting so for free by

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leaving us a review in apple podcasts

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31:45

of family of thank

31:47

you for listening ghost family will be

31:49

back in two weeks with another episode

31:53

or every house is haunted

32:00

the