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Unknown: This is Family in Focus with Dr. Wendy Schofer, Episode

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number 114. Welcome to Family in Focus with Dr. Wendy Schofer. I

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am the pediatrician and certified health and life coach

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who specializes in helping parents without all the food and

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body drama. Let's get busy creating the life you want to

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share with your whole family. Welcome back, my friends, you

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are in for a very special treat. Today, I'm hosting my first

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coffee chat, which if you pay attention, you will notice that

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there is no coffee being consumed because we're actually

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recording the afternoon. And as much as I love coffee, I love

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sleep even more. I'm still calling it a coffee chat because

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I'm just full of contradictions. Anyway, so today I have the

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pleasure of introducing you to Jen Person. She is the badass

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founder of Boundless Horizon, leadership, executive and

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personal development coaching. She's an amazing mom. And I'm

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going to just flat out admit she is my most favorite person in

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the whole world. She's my sister. I am inviting her on to

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kick off a series of these coffee chats of connections with

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people that are so meaningful to me, quite honestly, because of

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who they are, and how they make me feel. And when I think about

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Jen, when I am around, Jen, I feel connected. And if you

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listen to any of the podcast episodes, connection is what

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it's all about for me. So of course, we're going to kick it

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off with Jen, I cannot wait to share her with you so that you

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can see and experience in person. Just how very special

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she is. Are you excited? You're excited, okay. Yes, yes. Okay.

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Anyway, I'm just going to be giddy here today. So I would

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love to just put out the introductions a while okay. It's

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been a long time coming. I know that I have said for eons that

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when I decided to host a guest on family and focus that I was

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going back and forth. It wasn't going to be P!nk, or was it

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going to be you I'm in good company all around. So

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and and Corinne Crabtree beat both of you. So that's episode

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number 88, Corinne Crabtree. That being said, this isn't

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about an interview. This is about just a conversation and I

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would love to share with the world my favorite person that

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was not actually meant to be that way. But anyway, this is my

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sister, Jen, the coolest person there you go. Oh honey, I am so

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glad to have you here. I'm I'm so glad to be here. I hope that our voices aren't so

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similar that people can't tell when you're talking when I'm

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talking because as I've heard that we are similar

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Yeah, and yet different. You know, I was actually reflecting

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on that earlier today. I was thinking about how you know

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there are so many things that are just similar yet different

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like it's just fascinating seeing like just the ways that

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you know so many things kind of come back around that we

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discover about ourselves that it's like oh my god you do that

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too. Oh my god you have that in your cabinet so do I and yet so

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very different as both of our husbands will remind everyone

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that we are vastly different people thank God thank goodness

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oh my goodness. So you just got back from a walk?

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I did I did we walk our dogs in the afternoon sometimes very

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similar times even though we don't know it. So yes, we just

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returned from a walk. And so if this is video recorded, which I

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don't listen to I don't I listen to your podcasts. I don't do

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them on video and so the idea that I'm actually looking at you

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while we're doing this is is a treat normally I'm listening to

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you as I'm walking and I'm having these conversations just

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to my dog not back to you so this is a tree there

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you go totally a treat. And I guess that's one of the things

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we can always discuss if you want this share to the YouTube

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or not oh by the way, I have a YouTube but anyway that will

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things you get to find out all along the way. So So what's

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shakin in your neck of the woods? Oh, what's shaking in my neck of the woods. It's a school is

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almost out. So I'm I every day, every workday I try to squeeze

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in as much work goodness as I can because it's fleeting. The

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kids are out of school and a week and a half. And so yeah,

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I'm scrambling to get there and then we'll we'll scramble to

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start the summer and have a good one. So yeah, peeking it out

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peeking out the end of the year. Are they're doing it and so am

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Oh gosh, well, you know, I have a critter who just snuck back

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I? into the house. So yeah, so for those who are listening, our

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kids, so again, what similar yet different is that we each have

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two children. We each have an older daughter, a younger son,

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and everybody is exactly like It's like my life part 2, 10

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years later, like it's the 10 year leap. Exactly. So I

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remember those days, 10 years ago, you know, with the kids

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getting out of school and everything. And now you know,

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the man child who you may have just heard slamming a door, very

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loudly in the background, as he's going out to work out in

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the garage, I think, has returned home from college and

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it's just finding a new normal again. My space is being

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invaded. I had a whole couple of days of like, glorious peace.

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Yeah. was so ugly.

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You Yeah. Well, the fact that it lasts for a short period of time

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probably makes it even lovelier and then it changes and you're

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like, Okay, well, this is the new normal. So yeah, that

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wasn't that quiet spot. Great. And now we move on. Yeah. And

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now we're moving on. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I forgot the joy

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of some of those conversations, like loading up the dishwasher.

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Do you want to use the dishwasher? Or do you want to

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wash the dishes? Either way, we just got to agree on something

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here and figure it out. So as much as me living my life, 10 years in your past and you

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living my life? 10 years in the future, we are living a lot of

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the same things, right. Like there's not that much difference.

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Better than mine. I am waiting for the moment that actually

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break down and get that fancy pants dishwasher that you have.

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So it's nice. Yeah, well, and the pre cleaner that you have

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and all that kind of stuff. Sponsorships, I'll drop some I'll drop some names, because

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it's a good one. I am not getting into all the corporate stuff without love

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that no, not not my style, not my style whatsoever. So yeah, I

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mean, this is just magical, being able to connect and

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things. And I think that's, you know, so much of what I was just

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hungry for was just like real conversations, real people. And

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I mean, this is, this feels like it's very much like, just

7:45

getting to know each other and small talk and all that kind of

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stuff. But this is how we connect. And it's like comparing

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comparisons. But it's like seeing my life and your life and

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that. I don't know that. Yeah, on exchange.

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Well, we do that. And then the awesome thing is that most of

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our conversations also have this moment of let me tell you about

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this cool thing that just happened to me yesterday, or let

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me tell you about this awesome book that I'm reading right now.

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Right? Okay, so what you got, right? That always happens

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because every time I'm thinking about something, I'm like, I got to call Whitney to tell her about this awesome book. And

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sometimes we go through the pleasantries, and sometimes we go, Hey, how you doing? I just read this awesome book. Let me

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tell you about it. And then we dive right in. Right? So

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I want to know, I mean, you just have that wide open, what do you

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got? Right in my hand, because I was reading it like just earlier

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today. So I have many books on my bookshelf. Some of them I've

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read halfway, some of read have read all the way through and

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some of them I have because I can say I have that book. And I

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sheepishly can admit also that I haven't actually read it in

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full. But this book that I have right here, you can't tell what

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it is. It's incognito, is Brene Brown's book. She has a sister

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to write and they call each other sister which I think is

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adorable. But they i Oh, she has two sisters, actually. So her

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book, The Alice of the heart is one that is on my bookshelf that

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I have to sip in small doses, because every time I read it, it

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just blows my mind. And I think How have I been a human for this

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many years, and not thought about things or not compared

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different emotions or states of the heart in the way that she

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describes it and it just, I mean, sometimes almost brings me

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to tears because it just feels like it touches this like I knew

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that all along, but having it in words feels so Oh, like it just

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it just makes me feel more alive. And the one that I was

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reading today, the one that I'm sipping today is about something

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like the places we go and things don't make sense or something

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like that. It's about this idea of having emotions that feel

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opposite, but that the opposite pneus about them and

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experiencing the opposite pneus about them helps us to feel more

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human. So confusion is one of them. And bittersweet is another

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one, right? It's these emotions where there's like, there's

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like, nostalgia is also another one. So amazing. And I just, I

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just love that there are words in our language and emotions

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that we can point to that are actually the combination of

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multiple sensations coming together and creating its own

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emotion. I just love that to be able to put a word to that

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feeling. It's just so satisfying sometimes. And it just reminds

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me of like, the complexity of the human heart, right. And

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like, our experience, as humans is not one dimensional. It can

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be both bitter and sweet. At the same time, it can be both, I'm

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remembering the past both fondly, and with this sense of

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longing and yearning at the same time. And it can sometimes make

10:56

me feel joyful at the end of that emotion. And sometimes it

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makes me feel really sad, but it's kind of the same emotion.

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Ah, yeah, that's why I'm sipping this book because I can't go all

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the way through after read chunks of it at a time and just

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like, sit with it and ponder it and wonder what does that feel

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like? And how can I help my kids to understand this feeling and

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this word and putting them together? And oh, my gosh, okay, so I'm going to totally admit, I have that

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book. It is a fabulous, fabulous. Paper. Wait for me,

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like I have not been able to actually get into it and smell

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like, I gotta tell you, it's amazing. Like, I'm not trying to

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diss anything with Brene. Brown, it is not a book that I can

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throw in my backpack, you know, me and my backpack, okay? It's a

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heavy freaking book, like, I know. So it takes a commitment to actually sit down and read it

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when like, you're at home and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna

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pick this, and I get through it so slowly. I've been I bought

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this book, like, a year and a half ago. And yet here I am just

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paging through it and finding these little nuggets of

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amazingness. Oh, yeah. Okay. I love it that you some nuggets. But anyway,

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we got just came back from dog walks. And so that word has a

12:20

different connotation. And what one of my clients always pokes fun at me that I'm

12:27

always talking about the little nuggets. Yeah. So anyway, now

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now I'm like, Oh, it came from Jen. Thank you very much. I love

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your passion and enthusiasm and excitement. I could feel that in

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my heart as you were just describing just all of them

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like, oh, I need to like turn around and go find out exactly

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where this crazy bookshelf is this book because I don't even

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know right now. But her sales just shut up. And

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you're welcome. Brene You're welcome. And it's a beautiful

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book to like, part of it is that it's a it's not a paperback.

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It's a thick hardback book. But it's got beautiful pictures, and

13:13

drawings and colors. And it makes it easier to read too,

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because it's not like just this like thick pages of text. It's

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lots of different sort of chunks and bullets and things like

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that. Just love it.

13:27

And now I'm I find myself questioning. So I'm turning over

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here because I've got this pile of books that I'm reading to

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send with Joelle as he is moving so anyway, so my husband is

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moving to Guam. You already know this. I'm just kind of filling

13:46

everybody else in anyway. So he is no way.

13:51

Oh, I'm sorry. This is news to you. Yeah, anyway, we're not

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gonna get into all that drama. But anyways, so I'm gonna go and

13:58

visit him. And I'm like, Hey, honey, will you just take some

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books for me? Because while it may be a beautiful tropical

14:06

island, I burn. So I need other things to do besides being on

14:13

the beach. And so I'm sending long books and books. And yeah,

14:20

pretty much books. Gonna be a very well read person after

14:24

this. I was like, oh, no, I gotta go find my Atlas of the

14:31

heart and figure out why is it not on this book? Heil. I don't

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know. The hardest part of you doing that though, is that means that

14:40

you are on the other side of the world while you're reading this

14:42

book and getting inspired and jazzed and you won't be able to

14:45

just pick up the phone and be like, get out of bed. Let's talk

14:47

about wonder and awe. That's

14:50

what you think. Okay, I'm sorry. Do you think this is a once and

14:54

done conversation? No way, man. We're gonna figure that out

14:57

because your son is over. Very good time zoom calculator is

15:03

very figure out. He loves to practice that he actually gets

15:07

it right 95% of the time and we get it wrong about 50% of the

15:13

time. And so we're often arguing with him like, no, that's not

15:15

right. And he's like, yeah, it is nine year old there it is.

15:19

Yeah, it is comes out a lot. Yet his mama, I got it.

15:26

Like, what is it about? Like, why is it that Asian like those

15:29

calculations and just like having the facts and figuring

15:33

out and of course, we are so

15:36

very wrong. Yes, I am wrong most of the time now, which I'm just

15:40

getting used to that there's an emotion in this book somewhere

15:42

about that of just being okay with being wrong. I haven't

15:45

gotten to it yet. But it's coming. I'm coming. Oh, man. Well, you know, like, Lisa Feldman Barrett was talking

15:52

about, you know, the construction of emotions and how

15:54

there's just different things that we may not have the word

15:57

for it, but you know what it is? I was talking about that

16:01

recently about that feeling like when a purring cat is coming

16:07

towards you. Like, I feel that And mind you, like, you know, my

16:14

cat. This is so infrequent that my cat is actually trying to

16:19

come near me, let alone actually purring and I'm feeling this

16:23

whatever loving emotion, but it's like, no, I'm actually

16:27

thinking about my daughter's cat. That was the loving cat. So

16:31

but yeah, many when many would come towards me and Peric and

16:36

just like, oh, come your girl just just lay down in my lap? I

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don't know. It's not anticipation. You know, it's

16:45

just kind of like, I just this feeling. It's this. Like, oh,

16:51

this is so cool. Just geeking out on emotions that I don't

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even know what it is. But I feel Yeah.

16:59

I think one of the best gifts of like being in conversation with

17:02

other people is to sense their emotion and start talking about

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getting really specific about the words, because I think you

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can only really do that, when you're in conversation is hard

17:13

for me to sit here and be like, what is it that I'm feeling right now? No, it's not that it's not that is it? This? No,

17:18

it's not that. It's almost impossible to do that and get

17:20

really specific about it when you're by yourself but being

17:23

with someone else, and being connected to someone else in a

17:26

way that you could describe something and you'll be like,

17:28

Yeah, I think I got I got the feeling I'm just going to help

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you try to find a word for it. Oh my gosh, yeah, it's just that exhale.

17:42

You were describing the mini walking towards you. I was

17:45

thinking I don't have a cat in my life. Presently. But um,

17:49

think about like, what it's like to have a small child toddled

17:53

toward you when they're like locked in on your eyes. And

17:56

maybe their body language is that like, I know, this guy's

17:58

coming from me. And I know it's going to be beautiful. And so

18:02

that feeling of like having a small child coming towards you

18:05

for for comfort, or for joy or for play or just something

18:08

there's walking towards you and you just know that you are the

18:11

target of their love of golly, that feels so good.

18:18

There you go. And that is why I went into pediatrics,

18:22

huh? Yeah. Yeah, you gotta coined a word for that. You

18:27

should if there isn't one, you should come up with what it is

18:29

like what that feeling is. It's fascinating, because, you know, the first thing it comes

18:35

to my mind as I'm thinking about that. And of course, the whole

18:38

purring cat thing is like that anticipation. But, I mean, that

18:41

was the thing that I recognize that I joke around Go figure.

18:47

I'm always doing that. But I joked around that that's what I

18:52

miss the most during COVID those early days, because I was like,

18:56

Oh, I get paid and hugs. Like having kids. Moms, or even the

19:01

occasional dad, you know, offering a hug in the office,

19:05

but that whole like you see him common, I'm gonna like, Bring it

19:08

on. That feeling and it Yeah, I don't know. I've never thought

19:16

about coining a new feeling. There's no word for that.

19:21

It makes me also wonder to going down a different path. What did

19:24

you how did you navigate that afterwards? Like how did you get

19:27

to the point where like, you invited that coming together

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from other people who you weren't quite sure how

19:36

comfortable they might be with it. Like how did you how did you

19:39

navigate that like as a doctor in the office of when it was

19:43

okay to do that again? And when you know, people to do that. Oh,

19:48

okay. I was like, oh, it's easy. I just like call you out. And I'm like,

19:53

I would like to offer you a hug. And they're like, I received it

20:00

rarely goes down. even smoother than that. But so you're talking

20:03

about navigating post COVID, kind of

20:06

post COVID? Like, is that so important to you in how you

20:09

communicate in the office? And I'm sure a lot of your patients

20:11

were familiar with that, too. But how did you welcome that

20:13

back into the space afterwards?

20:18

Wow, I'm totally going back in this. So I remember that there

20:21

were a couple of non pediatric non pediatric words that were

20:28

going through my head, as this child was coming at me, I'm

20:31

like, oh, six feet, kids, six feet, kid. And then I was like,

20:34

Screw it. Like, I'm in a bunny suit, bring it on. He was, you

20:39

know, kids who who didn't understand for whatever reason.

20:43

And I started questioning in awe. I was like, hold on a

20:48

minute, there is this big, like abyss. And it's like, six feet

20:53

apart. Like, this is ridiculous. Like, I'm missing this, they're

20:57

missing this, you know, kids, and in particular, there were,

21:02

you know, kids who were nonverbal for so many different

21:05

reasons, that were the ones that were like breaking it all down.

21:09

They were like, I don't understand this, whether it was

21:11

the little kid, you know, the the toddler, whether it was, I

21:16

remember a very, very sweet boy that I met in urgent care who

21:22

was nonverbal, and, and with autism. And he somehow, like he

21:31

came in and was so uncomfortable at the beginning of the visit.

21:34

But yet at the end, he's like giving me hugs. And that's when

21:38

I was like, this is silly. Like, we've built a connection here.

21:43

And that is something that it was magical to see what happened

21:49

in the office. And not only that, I could just say that, he

21:54

could see that he could express that in his way, which was a

22:00

hug. And I'm like, oh, that's, too, you know, we're speaking

22:03

the same language here. Yeah. And I don't know, I just, I

22:11

don't know, it's just one of those things. Like, I find that

22:15

there's like a whole bunch of like, kind of trite phrases that

22:18

are coming into my head right now. Like, you only live once

22:20

like, okay, no, I'm not going out because of a hug. But, you

22:24

know, just there was so much more that evolved with

22:30

information about COVID. And what we need to do, and of

22:33

course, you know, on the practical side of things, you

22:36

know, I was working in urgent care, the vast majority of the

22:39

time, nobody's coming to see me because they are feeling

22:42

fabulous, and really helped me today. So I'm always wearing a

22:45

mask, just because I, I can love you, but I don't need to love

22:49

your cooties. So I mean, there's all sorts of different layers of

22:54

that. Yeah. Gosh,

22:58

yeah, I just don't think about that as much as, as when you

23:02

can't, when you can't do that, you don't realize how much of a

23:05

line of communication that is how a communication goes on so

23:08

many levels. It's not just about the verbal communication, but

23:12

it's just like your ability to see each other your ability to

23:14

make eye contact with each other, your ability to just

23:17

sense this, this energy between you and to be able to, to

23:21

communicate through hugs and just proximity to each other

23:24

too. Sometimes, you can have that communication when you're

23:27

just sitting near someone not necessarily just leaning toward

23:30

them, rather than actually hugging or touching or feel, you

23:33

know what I mean? It's like a, there's an energy that comes

23:35

from just observing somebody else's posture while you're in

23:38

the room with them, too. I love how this is just this, this is how we Chitty chat. I

23:44

was like, oh, man, this could be like totally an interview about

23:48

emotions. Oh, you don't have to interview about emotions. I want to talk

23:53

about it all the time. Anyway, it's fun.

23:55

And I think that that's fine. This is what we do. And this is

23:58

why I've wanted to connect with you. And I think that so much of

24:05

so much of what I talk about is about connection. And connection

24:09

for me is a feeling okay. I'm sorry, you could argue, whatever

24:14

you want to argue that's an emotion for me. I'm feeling it.

24:17

I know what it feels like. I know what it feels like when

24:21

it's not there. And I don't feel that with anyone else the way I

24:30

feel with you. And I think that is something that I want to be

24:35

able to share with the world. And you know, I know that this

24:39

conversation is different from what I've had on other episodes

24:42

of the podcast, like yeah, by the way this okay, this is me

24:47

all me. Joel was like, you know, I don't like listening to you

24:53

when you're on recordings because it doesn't sound like

24:55

you like that's me. He's like, not the real you. I'm like, Oh,

24:59

you mean have one that's like really uncertain and really

25:02

emotional and really kind of like stuttering when she's

25:05

speaking because she's trying to find the right words, goes

25:08

really fast and then gets kind of slow. When she's

25:11

introspective. Is that the one he's like, yeah, that's you. Ah,

25:16

yeah, I edit that out on. Yeah. So I'm gonna bring it back for a second to this is

25:23

something that I learned today, too, about how uncertainty when

25:28

you understand uncertainty in experts is actually much more

25:34

valued in terms of their credibility than being

25:38

absolutely certain. So to hear someone say out loud, I used to

25:42

think this, and now I'm rethinking that and I'm

25:45

beginning to think about it in a slightly different way actually

25:48

creates more credibility for that person than someone who was

25:51

like, this is the way it is, I'm certain of it and comes out, you

25:54

know, really confident, overconfident about their

25:58

perspectives. And I think that's brilliant. It's brilliant about

26:02

facts, and people who are knowledgeable and experts about

26:05

things. And it's also brilliant about emotions, too. Because

26:10

Brene Brown talks about in this book, when I hear someone say,

26:14

You know what, I'm kind of feeling this way, but I don't

26:16

really know. I don't really understand it. She said that

26:19

feels uncertainty in emotions. Feels like self awareness, not

26:24

confusion. Okay. We're gonna have a three way with Brene. Oh, my God, I

26:36

can't believe I just said that. But you know what I mean? Okay,

26:41

you're invited? Yes. You're invited about this sisterhood?

26:47

Sister. It's a sisterhood.

26:51

Oh, my goodness. Gracious. Yeah. You know, and I think that

26:57

that's been the magic in the office over years, like, you

27:04

know, so many people are like, well, how does that work? Like,

27:07

how do how do you build, you know, relationships in the

27:10

office? And part of it I, of course, would joke around about

27:13

you know, how I've got my street cred up here. My my pencil that

27:17

people started noting, oh, you have kids, don't you? I'm like,

27:19

Oh, let me tell you about it. I'm not coloring this because I

27:23

came by this honestly. credibility here, people.

27:28

I think that it's also just over time, I was like, I have no idea

27:33

what the answer is right now. I have no idea what the diagnosis

27:38

is. How often I would say, You know what we're going to turn to

27:43

Google for doctors. It's called up to date, but it's really a

27:46

Google for doctors. acknowledging it. And also,

27:51

yeah, like, I don't know what the answer is. But together,

27:55

we're going to figure out what the next step is, like, in

27:58

that's, you know, building that connection. It's like, we don't

28:01

know what the the cert were. We don't have a certain answer. We

28:05

don't know that. But yet, doesn't matter when we're

28:09

working on it. Together.

28:17

You are amazing. So I'm mindful of time. Yeah. You were trying

28:22

to wrap it up. And I'm like, hold up. Is that good? Oh, I

28:26

love it. So mind you, if you saw my eyes go over. Meanwhile, Joel

28:30

is calling and like, No, you're not doing this right now.

28:35

Because that would have been very interesting. And get a

28:38

three way. Very interesting. Add to this conversation, which we

28:43

are not going down that hill. I know where you're going there

28:46

anyway, so. Hey, awesome. I gotta tell you straight up, I

28:52

wouldn't invite you back. Because this is part of the

28:55

invite you back. That's funny. Anyway.

28:59

We do this all the time. You're not gonna hear this all the time. Like, I think that there's so much more here. And I

29:08

love being able to share what I love with the world by the way,

29:11

that's you Okay. Oh, gosh, I love you. I you know, I didn't

29:16

actually introduce your full name, you know that. Well, you did sort of, I thought, Well, okay.

29:21

Okay, so Jen person is my favorite person. And that's not poking fun at the

29:26

other folks who are also last name. But it's true, very true.

29:33

So all right, my love I am going to say to you as well as to

29:40

everyone else, and I will see you all again next week. Right?

29:45

Stay brave, stay funny. Stay kind what was the thing?

29:49

All right. I got no better way to cut it off. No, no, no, I'm

29:53

not gonna do. Alright, so Jen's giving me all the different ways

29:57

that I should be signing off on my podcast, so what do you think

30:02

we should do today? Oh, my prep? Well, I think if I did that it would be I would

30:05

probably be, take stealing somebody else's, but I'm saying

30:09

all the good podcasters have like a sign off where they say

30:11

like, Okay, I'm going to take that personally, right? Well, not

30:14

all, you know what I mean? Like there's ways to, oh, I don't

30:18

know it sounds cheesy, but I do believe if I go back to when I'm not Chitty-chatting,

30:22

it's always "MWAH, much love." Yes, by the way, that's also how

30:26

I sign all my emails and everything else. So

30:29

I'm saying go with it. "MWAH! Much love."

30:33

Thank you. Okay. We will apparently work on this as well.

30:38

I love you. To hear more about family and focus and the

30:42

programs that I offer, go to wendyschofermd.com, that's

30:47

SCHOFER, and you can sign up to get free weekly content, tips,

30:54

and also be the first to know about all of my upcoming group

30:57

and individual coaching programs. I'll see you there.

31:00

Remember, while Wendy Schofer is a physician and talks about

31:03

health and wellness for the whole family. She is not your

31:07

physician. This podcast is not providing medical advice and

31:10

does not replace the relationship that you have with

31:13

your personal physician.