0:00

There's interviews, and then there are Chris

0:02

Wallace interviews. He's sitting down

0:05

with some of the biggest names out there on his

0:07

new show. Watch who's talking to

0:09

Chris Wallace. for marrying Sunday's

0:11

September twenty fifth at seven PM eastern

0:13

on CNN.

0:16

This is GPS, the global public

0:19

square. Welcome to all of you in the United

0:21

States and around the world. I'm Farid

0:23

Zakaria coming to you from New York.

0:27

On the program, the

0:29

world came to New York this week for the

0:31

UN general assembly, as

0:34

Vladimir Putin threatened from afar

0:37

an even more dangerous phase

0:39

of his war on Ukraine. Just

0:41

today, president Putin has made

0:44

over nuclear threats against Europe.

0:46

I talked with the

0:48

president of Finland who knows

0:50

Putin well.

0:53

I also sat down with the president of

0:55

South Korea to ask about

0:57

the threat from his neighbor to the north,

0:59

which just declared itself a

1:01

nuclear stake. Also

1:07

His jobs burn, protests rage,

1:09

and answered death to the dictator

1:12

to ring out in Iran after

1:15

a woman dies in police custody then.

1:20

what will come of the demonstrations. I

1:22

will ask an expert.

1:26

But

1:28

first, here's my take. Let's

1:31

not play down what has happened this week.

1:33

The leader of the world's largest nuclear

1:36

power, publicly threatened to use

1:38

nuclear weapons.

1:39

In an address in Moscow on Wednesday,

1:42

Vladimir Putin declared that Russia will

1:44

use all weapons systems

1:46

available to us to defend the

1:48

country. He emphasized at

1:51

the Iberian. This is not

1:53

a bluff. Citizen's

1:55

It might be. Putin's

1:56

threat is at odds with traditional

1:59

Soviet military doctrine,

1:59

which once ruled out

2:02

first use. Under

2:03

his leadership, the Russian military now

2:05

contemplates scenarios in which it

2:07

could use nuclear weapons. But

2:09

Putin knows that the West has powerful

2:11

nuclear weapons of its zone, and

2:13

he knows that the doctrine of mutually assured

2:16

destruction has prevented any

2:18

power from deploying them since nineteen

2:20

forty five. Moreover, these

2:22

kinds of threats must travel, China,

2:24

India, and all those countries that

2:27

have been trying to steer a course between

2:29

Russia and the West. But

2:31

what does it tell us that Putin decided

2:33

to make his statement anyway? That

2:37

the war is going very badly for him?

2:40

This month, Ukrainian forces routed

2:42

the Russian army in a stunning series

2:44

of victories. Putin's first

2:46

response was to open a new ferris

2:48

wheel in Moscow. urging people

2:51

to relax and enjoy life.

2:54

A few days later, realizing that the

2:56

relaxed strategy was not working

2:58

He scheduled a national television address

3:01

during prime time

3:02

and then

3:03

simply didn't show up. He

3:05

did give the address the next morning.

3:08

using the occasion to issue his nuclear

3:10

threat. To understand

3:12

how badly the Ukrainian war has

3:14

gone from Putin's point of view,

3:17

his decision to announce a partial

3:19

mobilization. Russia

3:21

did not mobilize its population for

3:24

the nine year war in Afghanistan. Moscow

3:27

has mobilized its citizenry for

3:29

war twice since nineteen fourteen.

3:32

First, on the eve of world war one,

3:34

and then to defend against the invasion

3:37

of the country by Adolph Hitler in Germany

3:39

in nineteen forty one. For

3:41

Putin in particular, this is a

3:43

bitter pill. His basic social

3:45

contract with the Russian people has been

3:48

stay out of politics. Don't mind

3:50

my aristocracy. and I will give

3:52

you a stable, peaceful country in

3:54

which you can make a decent living. This

3:57

mobilization is the first time he has

3:59

had to

3:59

violate that contract.

4:01

And for the first time in his twenty

4:04

two year reign, he faces opposition

4:06

from both the right and the left.

4:09

At least one thousand three hundred war

4:11

protestors have been arrested since

4:13

Putin's announcement, but more ominously,

4:16

right wing nationalist czar openly

4:18

criticizing the government for not

4:20

prosecuting this war with greater zeal,

4:22

manpower, and firepower.

4:25

When a war goes badly, people look

4:27

for someone to blame. In

4:29

a dictatorship so centralized, it's

4:32

hard to see whom default other

4:34

than Putin himself. His

4:37

recent actions all raise

4:39

the ante. In addition to

4:41

threatening the use of nuclear weapons and

4:43

mobilizing Russians. He's also

4:45

signaled that four regions of Ukraine will

4:47

soon become part of Russia. Crimea

4:50

was also incorporated by Moscow

4:52

in twenty fourteen. This

4:54

will make it harder to negotiate a peace

4:56

deal because under Russian law, these

4:58

areas would then be part of Russian

5:00

territory. Annexation also

5:02

makes it easier to claim that Ukrainian

5:04

attacks on those territories are

5:06

not part of a contested conflict but

5:08

an attack on Russia itself

5:11

requiring any and all means to

5:13

respond. Of

5:15

course, this will not deter the Ukrainians.

5:18

They know that Russia has invaded their

5:20

lands, destroyed their cities,

5:22

tortured their people, and killed

5:24

and wounded tens of thousands. they

5:27

will fight to regain their country. And

5:29

Putin's threats are not gonna stop the

5:31

west from aiding and arming Ukraine.

5:34

So what is Putin's game? And

5:36

where does he go from here? No

5:39

one knows, including perhaps

5:41

Putin himself. He has given

5:43

some signals to India's Narendra

5:45

Modi and Turkey's Russia, Taiwan,

5:48

that he wants to negotiate. but

5:50

the Russian leader does seem to be playing

5:52

a very high stakes game

5:55

in which she knows that the outcome could

5:57

be catastrophic. It's

5:59

still hard to see how

6:01

even if he loses this war, anyone

6:03

in Moscow could dislodge him.

6:05

More than perhaps any

6:07

major nation in the world, Russia

6:10

is now ruled by one man.

6:12

There are no institutions, no Pollard

6:14

Bureau, no central committee no

6:16

monarchy, nothing. The

6:18

largest country in the world with the

6:20

most nuclear weapons is ruled

6:22

by one man. It is as

6:24

he once described it, a

6:26

vertical of power. And

6:28

that vertical looks more unstable

6:31

than ever. All

6:33

of this suggests that we have entered

6:35

one of the most dangerous periods in

6:37

international affairs in

6:39

our lifetimes. Go

6:41

to cnn dot com slash freed for a link

6:44

to my Washington Post column this week,

6:46

and

6:46

let's get started.

6:56

On Tuesday,

6:59

Finland's president, Saudi Minister,

7:01

condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine,

7:03

calling it a cruel and unprovoked

7:06

war and a blatant violation of

7:08

the charter of the United Nations. He

7:10

called on UN members not to accept

7:12

Condon or normalize such aggression

7:14

And this was all before Putin's nuclear

7:17

comments. Minister's

7:17

nation shares an eight hundred

7:20

mile border with Russia and the

7:22

war in Ukraine

7:23

triggered the Fins to apply for NATO

7:25

membership in May alongside their

7:28

neighbors in Sweden. I want

7:30

to welcome to the program president

7:32

minister. Thank you so much for

7:34

joining us, sir. Thank you very much.

7:36

So Thank you, sir. Tell

7:38

us tell us where what you

7:40

think Putin is going

7:42

to do now. You have met him so many

7:44

times. He does

7:46

appear to be cornered

7:48

in some ways. He does

7:50

appear to be becoming more

7:52

reckless with these nuclear threats. Tell

7:55

us what your analysis of his state of

7:57

mind is.

7:58

How I see

7:59

is in actually

8:02

poker terms. He

8:04

has put all in. And

8:07

he is a fighter. So

8:12

it is very difficult to see

8:14

him accepting

8:17

any kind of defeat. and that

8:19

surely makes the situation very,

8:22

very crucial. You

8:23

said, I remember in

8:25

in early February before the Russian

8:27

invasion. that something

8:29

you you sense had changed about

8:31

Putin, that he used to be very

8:33

careful, incremental,

8:36

calculating, but

8:38

that he was he was behaving in a

8:40

much more aggressive fashion. In

8:43

just in your conversations, what

8:45

do you think happened? Because everyone

8:47

is perplexed by this. Everyone thought

8:49

Putin was, yes, he may be a nasty

8:51

guy, but but there was a sort

8:53

of a pattern of carefulness.

8:56

And he suddenly be he seems to

8:58

become very reckless. What do you

9:00

think has happened?

9:00

If we go years back,

9:03

we see or at least I

9:05

have seen and understood

9:07

some kind some kind of development

9:10

he's thinking. He's frustrated

9:13

because of the situation in Ukraine.

9:15

after twenty fourteen.

9:18

And then in a

9:20

way progressively, I

9:23

have felt

9:25

that his frustration is

9:28

growing. And very

9:31

obviously, he just decided to

9:34

get this thing somehow

9:37

solved or at least

9:39

trying to solve it. Do you think

9:41

that that that there

9:43

is a possibility that he

9:45

will expand his

9:47

his war aims. You know, people

9:50

talk about Moldova. Obviously,

9:52

you must be you you you have to be

9:54

careful watching you have

9:56

a long border with Russia. We

9:58

haven't seen any sign

10:00

in Finland. Actually,

10:02

it's more calm than than

10:05

four years. So

10:08

I think that he has

10:11

enough now,

10:13

headache in in Ukraine and

10:16

it doesn't seem very obvious

10:19

that he could make any money

10:21

lovers elsewhere, not

10:24

now and not in a nearby

10:26

future.

10:27

Do you think that some of Putin's

10:29

change may have come about because

10:31

of the isolation of COVID,

10:33

that he was only listening to a small

10:35

group of advisers, but you saw him

10:38

many times before that. Do

10:40

you sense that that period of two

10:42

years of total isolation had has played

10:44

a part here?

10:45

I met him last time,

10:48

approximately a year ago last

10:50

October. And yes,

10:54

it seems that he is quite alone

10:56

in the big house, empty big

10:59

house. They're

11:01

burnt very many

11:04

people. So he

11:06

has been careful with COVID

11:09

and maybe that's why

11:11

that the people

11:13

surrounding him are

11:15

not that many anymore. And

11:17

I I actually don't know who

11:20

are nearby. stay

11:21

with us. When we come back,

11:23

I'm gonna ask the president this

11:25

question. Winter is coming.

11:28

Can Europe stay united against

11:30

Russia's aggression when the lack of

11:32

Russian gas may make it a very

11:34

cold winter.

11:37

Catch

11:39

up on the mysteries you love

11:41

along with new episodes on season

11:43

three of Forensic Files

11:45

two. Forensic files too

11:47

brings you along as investigators,

11:49

scientists, and other experts

11:51

piece together evidence clues and

11:54

data in search of the answers behind

11:56

violent crimes and unexplainable mysteries.

11:58

Listen to forensic

11:59

files too. On Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

12:02

iHeartRadio or your favorite

12:04

podcast app.

12:09

Ever wondered what it's really like

12:11

to live like a bird. If so, you

12:13

don't want to miss my conversation with

12:15

Ed Young. I'm doctor Sanjay

12:17

Gupta, and this week I'm chasing life We discuss

12:19

how every animal from humans

12:21

to shrimp experience their

12:23

own sensory bubble. I'll

12:25

share how understanding all this made

12:27

me better. at owning pets.

12:30

Listen to chasing life on Apple

12:32

Podcasts,

12:32

Spotify, iHeartRadio, or

12:35

your favorite podcast app.

12:39

And

12:41

we are back here on GPS with president

12:44

Nenista of Finland. Mister

12:47

president, everybody is wondering

12:49

about this question. It's going to get

12:51

very cold. Gas is already

12:53

very expensive by

12:55

some measures. It is ten times as

12:57

expensive now as

12:59

it was before the invasion.

13:02

will Europeans be able to maintain

13:04

the pressure or

13:06

will they start to be

13:10

cracks in the European coalition against

13:12

Russia?

13:13

Yes. Because price

13:15

of energy, food, even

13:18

interest rates are rising. So

13:20

that means tough times

13:22

for households. it's

13:26

often thought that Europeans

13:28

or Western people are

13:30

used to, let's say,

13:32

to a life which

13:35

goes always to better and

13:37

better. And thus that we

13:39

are very weak to

13:41

to face difficulties.

13:44

But I would say

13:46

that, Ukrainians gave an

13:48

excellent example that

13:51

there is stamina amongst

13:55

people when difficulties come.

13:58

and difficulties which we are

14:00

facing are minor if

14:03

compared to those ukranias

14:05

are our meeting. So

14:08

I believe that

14:10

we European

14:13

people can take it

14:16

and have resilience.

14:18

Specifically,

14:20

one of the big issues that people worry

14:22

about is Italy. The

14:24

Italian elections assuming

14:26

madam Maloney comes to power,

14:29

this is a three party coalition. Two of

14:31

the parties have been openly pro

14:33

Russian. Is that likely to change

14:35

the dynamic if the Italians go

14:37

into the European Council

14:39

and say, you know, we don't

14:41

want our our as some of the

14:43

parties have been saying during the campaign. We

14:45

don't want to have to pay for this. We don't want

14:47

the Italian households to

14:49

have to bear the brunt of this

14:51

war with Russia?

14:53

No, I actually

14:55

don't believe that that

14:57

would be problem.

15:00

The other issue is that

15:03

Italian economy is

15:05

not in very good

15:07

shape at the moment. And that

15:09

might raise also questions

15:14

and discussion on some kind

15:16

of solidarity, financial

15:20

solidarity in Europe and I

15:22

guess that might be even

15:26

bigger or real problem.

15:30

You're saying that the Italians will need money

15:33

from the European Union, so

15:35

they

15:35

are unlikely to to try

15:37

to break ranks.

15:39

I wouldn't say that

15:41

so directly, but nevertheless

15:44

their finances are not

15:46

in a very good shape. we have to

15:48

keep that in mind too.

15:50

Let me finally ask you sort of

15:52

where we began, which is Where

15:55

do we go from here? There are people

15:57

who think, you you know,

15:59

you just need to show as much

16:01

military force push the Russians

16:03

back And is another school that says,

16:05

you you need to start searching

16:07

for some diplomatic solution.

16:09

The Ukrainians, as you know, are very opposed to

16:11

that right now. What

16:13

would what would your advice be to the

16:16

west? I

16:16

am a man of

16:19

peace and to I

16:21

think that every possible

16:24

need for looking for

16:26

pieces important. That's

16:29

why I strongly

16:32

support Brazil Macron and

16:34

Charles Charles Charles, keeping

16:36

the line open, a

16:38

possibility open to discuss

16:41

with the Kremlin. Also,

16:43

I have to admit that

16:45

at the moment, I don't

16:47

see so very much

16:49

possibilities to reach

16:51

the peace. Given your long

16:53

relationship with Vladimir

16:55

Putin, would

16:56

you would you be willing

16:58

to reach out and and meet

17:00

with him and try to see if there is a

17:02

deal

17:03

to be had?

17:04

Well, I haven't

17:06

had any contact on him now,

17:09

but if situation

17:11

would be such that we

17:14

find the possibility of getting

17:16

something positive done. And

17:19

the other thing would

17:21

shortly after discussing with

17:23

Brazil intelligence also.

17:26

But I'm not asked

17:28

to do And I

17:30

don't see at the moment any

17:33

possibilities to have

17:36

anything positive done.

17:38

Mister President,

17:39

pleasure to have you on. Thank you.

17:42

Thank you very

17:42

much. Thank you.

17:44

Next on GPS, another

17:47

world leader in another dangerous

17:49

neighborhood. I talked to president Moon of

17:51

South Korea about China,

17:53

Taiwan, North Korea when we

17:55

come back.

17:59

Earlier this month,

18:02

North Korea declared itself a

18:04

nuclear weapon state. Kim Jong Un said

18:06

his country would never give up

18:08

its nukes and rejected any

18:10

negotiations on denuclearization. The

18:13

new law also allows Pyongyang

18:15

to make a preemptive nuclear

18:17

strike in the event of an imminent

18:20

threat. I

18:21

had opportunity to talk this week to the man

18:23

who leads the nation on the

18:25

other side of the DMZ, the

18:28

demilitarized zone. president

18:30

Yun Sokyo. He's been on

18:32

the job only a few months and is

18:34

new to being a politician. BUT

18:36

HE HAD SOME VERY INTERESTING THINGS TO

18:39

SAY. PRESIDENT YOUNG, Pleasure

18:41

TO HAVE YOU ON THE PROGRAM. AND

18:43

IT'S MY Pleasure AS WELL, FARED.

18:45

mister president, there are so many crises

18:48

around the world, Ukraine

18:51

and issues surrounding Taiwan,

18:53

for example.

18:54

it seems like we may have

18:57

forgotten about the issue of North

18:59

Korea. So I want to

19:01

ask you to tell us

19:03

from your perspective what is

19:05

happening in North Korea right now?

19:07

Is the threat or the

19:09

danger from North Korea

19:12

increasing today.

19:14

I am

19:17

aware that more attention is being

19:19

put on frame. because a real

19:21

act of aggression is taking

19:23

place. A real war is

19:25

taking place in Ukraine. So I

19:27

understand that more attention is

19:29

going there. And with

19:32

respect to Taiwan, China is

19:35

increasing its tensions. For

19:38

example, sending aircraft

19:40

above the territory of the Taiwan

19:43

Strait. However, least

19:46

for South Korea, the

19:48

most imminent threat is

19:50

North Korea's nuclear missile

19:53

threat. And

19:56

I don't want to be hypothetical

19:58

about the

19:59

practical situation. However,

20:03

the head of state of my

20:05

country, as well

20:06

as the Korean military.

20:08

I would

20:09

like to note that

20:11

power alliance with the United

20:14

States is expanding its

20:16

horizons

20:16

to economic fields

20:19

as well as cutting

20:21

edge technologies. Therefore,

20:25

we will work together

20:27

in order to contribute to

20:29

global peace and stability,

20:32

as well as expanding

20:34

freedom for the

20:36

world's citizens. when

20:37

Nancy Pelosi came to

20:39

the region, after

20:42

visiting Taiwan, she

20:44

visited South Korea.

20:46

and you did not meet with

20:48

her personally. You said you were on

20:51

vacation. This is

20:53

South Korea's closest

20:55

ILI only military ally.

20:57

It seemed to many

21:00

people that this was an odd

21:02

or unusual decision for you to

21:05

make. and that it was really not

21:07

about a vacation. It was that you were

21:09

trying to be nice

21:11

to China.

21:12

the How

21:13

do you respond

21:15

to that? With

21:17

respect to her

21:19

visit during my vacation, It

21:21

was upon invitation of the speaker of the Korean

21:23

national assembly. And on this occasion,

21:25

there might be some different opinions

21:28

about whether the president should meet her even

21:30

though he's on vacation. I

21:32

decided to have a pleasant

21:35

and fruitful phone call not

21:37

only with Pelosi, but six other

21:40

members of the House of

21:42

Representatives. And we had

21:44

a really productive and

21:46

friendly conversation. And

21:49

speaker Pelosi also understood

21:51

my situation that I

21:53

was on vacation. and

21:56

she respected it as well.

21:58

mm wins yeah we are

21:59

as or know

22:01

And

22:03

With respect to

22:05

my position on the

22:08

issue of the Taiwan Strait,

22:11

I have always been

22:13

clear on my position.

22:17

And whenever, and

22:20

wherever.

22:20

I'm asked about this

22:23

issue. I will

22:26

always provide? It's consistent on a

22:28

macro issue. So

22:30

just to

22:30

be clear, your position on this issue,

22:33

if China were

22:35

to attack Taiwan, do you support

22:37

the United States coming

22:39

to Taiwan's military defense?

22:41

In the

22:44

case of

22:47

military conflict around Taiwan,

22:49

There would be increased possibility of

22:52

North Korean provocation.

22:56

Therefore, in that case, the top

22:58

priority for Korea and the US

23:00

Korean alliance on the Korean

23:02

peninsula would be based on a

23:04

robust defense posture. we

23:05

must deal with the North Korean

23:08

threat first. When you say we

23:10

must deal with the first, are

23:12

you saying that you would ask the

23:14

United States to first

23:16

fulfill its obligations towards

23:18

South Korea before getting involved

23:20

in Taiwan. It

23:21

wouldn't be appropriate to

23:24

reply about a US priority. because

23:26

both the Korean peninsula and Taiwan are

23:28

very important for the US, I

23:30

suppose, and are to be defended by the US

23:32

together with their allies and partners. therefore,

23:34

I would say that both issues have significant

23:37

importance. President,

23:38

you

23:41

have come to politics in an

23:43

unusual way in

23:45

South

23:45

Korea. You are not a politician.

23:47

In fact, I think

23:50

you announced that

23:50

you're gonna run for president eight

23:52

months before you became president. You

23:54

entered politics eight months before you became

23:57

president. Is this part

23:59

of

23:59

this wave of

24:01

people who are

24:03

outside of the establishment,

24:05

outside of politics? around the

24:08

world who are

24:10

finding their way into politics because

24:12

people have lost faith

24:15

in political institutions around

24:17

the world. What do you what do

24:19

you think explains your your

24:22

success?

24:23

the Before

24:25

getting to

24:27

the point. Let me tell

24:29

you about my story. and

24:32

why I place so much importance

24:34

on our alliance with the United States.

24:37

Whenever I

24:39

ask a scientist, They say we

24:42

must cooperate with America because

24:44

they have the most technological prowess

24:46

in the world. And

24:49

If I ask a soldier, they

24:52

say the United States

24:54

has overwhelming capability

24:56

in terms of their

24:59

military power. We have

25:03

much to learn from

25:05

the United States system.

25:08

to further advance

25:10

our society and

25:14

economy as well as

25:16

our politics. As

25:20

a

25:21

lawyer, why did I

25:23

decide to enter the world of

25:26

politics? Because

25:27

in for i couldn't join

25:29

-- -- it is

25:31

to reestablish --

25:33

These values. -- OF THE RULE

25:35

OF LAW. Reporter:

25:38

THE MARKET ECONOMY AND

25:43

DEMOCRACY. Because

25:45

many people lost faith in

25:47

these universal values. Mister

25:51

president, thank you so much for

25:53

joining us. Next on

25:55

GPS, after a young woman died in

25:57

police custody in Iran, angry

25:59

protests are popping up across

26:02

the nation. where

26:03

will the protests lead this time?

26:05

I'll be

26:06

back with Kareem Sajde Port in a

26:08

moment.

26:11

Catch up on

26:12

the mysteries you love along

26:15

with new episodes on season

26:17

three of Forensic Files two.

26:20

Forensic files too brings you

26:22

along as investigators, scientists,

26:24

and other experts piece together evidence,

26:27

clues, and data in search of the answers

26:29

behind violent crimes and unexplainable

26:31

mysteries. Listen to forensic

26:33

files too. on Spotify,

26:36

iHeartRadio, or your favorite

26:38

podcast

26:39

app.

26:42

Ever

26:43

wondered what it's really like to

26:45

live like a bird. If so, you

26:47

don't wanna miss my conversation with

26:49

Ed Young. doctor Sanjay Gupta, and this

26:51

week I'm chasing life, we discuss how

26:53

every animal from humans to

26:55

shrimp experienced their own sensory

26:58

bubble. I'll share how understanding

27:00

all this made me better at

27:02

owning pets. Listen to chasing

27:05

life

27:05

on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

27:07

iHeartRadio or your favorite podcast

27:10

app.

27:14

In dozens of cities

27:16

across Iran, protesters led

27:18

by women are angrily rising up

27:20

against the government. At least

27:22

twelve hundred people have been

27:24

arrested and dozens reportedly

27:26

killed in the clashes so far.

27:28

The igniting incident was

27:30

the death of Marsha Amini. after

27:32

she was taken to a reeducation center by the

27:35

morality police because she

27:37

allegedly was not wearing her

27:39

hijab correctly. The

27:41

regime response to the protests has

27:43

been ever more repression, arrests,

27:46

deaths, and internet blackouts.

27:49

So can the government weather this unrest

27:51

as it did in two thousand and nine

27:53

and two thousand nineteen? Joining

27:55

me now

27:55

is our friend, Kareem Sajidapuri, senior

27:58

fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for

27:59

International Peace and always a

28:02

superb Iran watcher. So

28:04

explain at

28:04

one level for most people why

28:07

are

28:07

they still arresting thousands

28:10

of women for the

28:11

hijab? Clearly

28:14

alienating women what

28:17

is the rationale? Fareed,

28:18

we're now in the 43rd year

28:21

of the Iranian regime after the

28:23

nineteen seventy nine revolution. And I

28:25

think this as a reminder that the Islamic

28:27

Republic of Iran is

28:29

incapable of reforming and it's

28:31

incapable of changing its

28:33

ideology. There's really three ideological

28:36

pillars left of this revolution, death

28:38

to America, death to Israel, and

28:40

the mandatory head job for

28:43

women, compulsory bailing. And the

28:45

head job is really the

28:47

flag of the Islamic Republic, a symbol

28:49

of its Islamic piety,

28:52

And it's really the weakest of these

28:54

three pillars because not even

28:56

Iran's anti imperial allies

28:58

and Moscow Pyongyang or

29:00

Caracas are gonna support the idea that women

29:02

should be beaten for showing too much

29:04

hair. So, you know, you've tweeted about

29:06

this, and I think it's really interesting.

29:08

What with the regime has become and maybe

29:09

in its origin always was there there

29:11

was the strong patriarchal element. There was

29:13

the sort of men against women.

29:16

Yeah. It has also turned

29:18

into a regime of old

29:20

people against young people. Right?

29:22

Absolutely. You look at the institutions

29:25

ruling Iran and they're all

29:28

geriatric, old, very

29:30

traditional men. Ayatollah Khomeini,

29:32

eighty three year old supreme leader. He's one

29:34

of the longest serving dictators in the world.

29:36

And if you look at the institutions that he's

29:38

empowered and, in turn, empower him,

29:41

they're all led by very geriatric

29:43

man. a guy called Ayatollah Genati is

29:46

ninety five years old, head of two very

29:48

powerful institutions in Iran. So this is

29:50

one of the tragedies when you just look at

29:52

the images of the protesters

29:54

who've died young

29:56

modern women with their lives ahead of them

29:58

and you look at the photos of regime

30:00

officials, you know, that one foot in

30:03

the grave. So

30:03

the crucial question becomes, the

30:06

regime

30:06

is cracking down hard.

30:08

So far

30:09

in the past, these crackdowns have

30:11

worked. sad to say, even the the

30:13

green revolution. Yes. Will the

30:15

crackdown work this time? I think

30:17

what we have to watch are

30:19

the internal officials within the regime.

30:21

You know, I lived in Iran. I don't

30:23

doubt that there is the

30:25

appetite for fundamental change among

30:27

the society. So that I don't doubt. But for

30:30

popular pricings to succeed,

30:32

you not only need pressure from

30:34

below but you need divisions at the top.

30:36

So what I'm looking at, you know, will we

30:38

start to see fishers within the regime,

30:40

within the security forces, within the revolutionary

30:43

guards, So far, we haven't seen that, but there's

30:45

an interesting caveat

30:47

now, which is the uncertain health

30:49

of eighty three year old supreme leader,

30:51

Ayatollah Khamani, And what the revolutionary

30:53

guards are are thinking about that?

30:55

If he dies, there has to

30:57

be a kind of an election among

30:59

a elite group of of

31:01

Mueller's Do we know

31:03

who is likely there that people think that

31:05

the current president could be elevated

31:07

to that position, and he's another

31:10

super hardliner. Yes. I

31:12

think when Harmony dies, what

31:14

is likely to happen is a realm of castro

31:16

type situation. You know, a weak leader

31:18

who replaces a powerful leader

31:21

And then, you know, my hope for it is that Iran

31:23

evolves into Denmark, but I've learned not

31:25

to conflate my hope as an analysis. I

31:27

think what could then happen after that

31:29

is an Iranian putin

31:31

type figure, you know, someone from the ASEAN system, from the

31:34

security or military

31:36

establishment who throws out Shiite

31:38

nationalism and replaces it

31:40

with Iranian nationalism. Again, I hope

31:42

I'm wrong about that, but I could see things

31:44

evolving like that. One of the reasons going that's

31:46

that's likely I think is that the the thing that

31:48

one has to realize is and there's no good answer here, but

31:51

American sanctions and super

31:53

sanctions have massively empowered

31:56

the security services, the revolutionary guard.

31:58

These people who

31:59

now are the, you know, the head of the smuggling

32:02

operations, everything comes in

32:04

through them. So

32:06

given this dilemma, which is dealing

32:08

with the terrible regime, on the other hand, the

32:10

sanctions do actually empower

32:12

it. Castro, you famously used to say, if

32:14

the Americans were to relax the sanctions, I would do something

32:17

to force them to reimpose them because

32:19

that's what keeps me going. what

32:21

should the US do? The the

32:24

the challenge of US policy toward

32:26

Iran is that on one hand, you're trying to

32:28

prevent the regime from becoming like

32:30

North Korea and you're trying to help the society

32:32

become like South Korea. To

32:34

counter their nuclear and regional

32:36

ambitions, you have to use

32:38

pressure. And if you don't want to use

32:40

military pressure, that requires economic sanctions and

32:42

isolation. But in a way that does empower

32:44

these isolationists within the

32:46

regime. So we have to figure out, you know,

32:48

how do we counter their

32:50

regional and nuclear ambitions, but

32:52

at the same time, have a

32:54

strategy which is trying to champion the cause

32:56

of political change, anyone like

32:58

we did during the Cold War vis à vis the Soviet Union. But

33:00

there we would try to open up contacts

33:02

with society. We were trying to -- Yes. --

33:04

we thought that, you know, in a sense,

33:07

capitalism and commerce were the assets

33:09

that would break these these dictate

33:11

dictatorial bonds.

33:12

Possible. I think we at least

33:15

have to think intelligently about

33:17

it within the US government. Up until now,

33:19

the Biden administration's sole

33:21

strategy has been to try to revive the nuclear

33:23

deal that Donald Trump exited. You know,

33:25

I'm confident between not only the US

33:27

government, but people like Elon Musk, you know,

33:29

our great minds in Silicon Valley,

33:31

we can think about constructive, creative ways

33:33

of helping to champion the cause of change in

33:35

a country in which the vast majority of young

33:38

people do want change. Kareem,

33:40

it's always so insightful.

33:43

I mean, you're just terrific. Thank you. Thank

33:45

you for having me for it.

33:46

Next on GPS.

33:48

prepared to be inspired by three people who

33:50

really want to change the world.

33:52

Jose Andres,

33:52

the chef, Lorraine

33:54

Powell Jobs, the philanthropist,

33:56

and prime minister Mira Marley of

33:59

Barbados with three big

33:59

ideas when we

34:02

come back. And

34:05

now for

34:07

the next big idea,

34:09

actually

34:09

three of them. It was a

34:11

long hot summer in

34:13

Chicago this year. More than one thousand

34:15

two hundred people were shot, almost two hundred of

34:18

them fatally. It's a problem

34:20

that plagues the

34:20

city in an intense way.

34:24

Lorraine

34:24

Power Jobs has set out to find a solution to

34:27

the problem. She is the

34:29

billionaire widow of Apple cofounder

34:32

Steve Jobs and she now

34:34

runs the Emerson collective,

34:36

an organization dedicated to

34:38

fixing such

34:40

vexing issues. I

34:40

had the pleasure of Clinton Global

34:43

Initiative this week. You will

34:45

also hear from chef and

34:48

World Central Kitchen founder, José Andres, as

34:50

well as Prime Minister, Miramarir Barbados,

34:54

who speech on climate

34:56

change at last year's UN General

34:58

Assembly

34:59

went viral. They all

35:01

have big ideas that

35:02

would make a big difference. So

35:04

in the case

35:05

of Chicago, Arne

35:06

Duncan after he came

35:09

out of

35:09

the Obama administration returned

35:11

to Chicago and

35:14

wanted to work the in-depth

35:16

community in South and

35:19

West side of Chicago. When he

35:22

was the head of Chicago Public

35:24

Schools, he

35:26

witnessed firsthand what it was

35:28

like to have the devastating effects

35:30

of gun violence in

35:32

communities. So we started

35:34

working block

35:36

by block with individuals who

35:37

were most at risk of

35:39

of gun violence either as

35:41

the perpetrator or as

35:44

the victim. we put we have an eighteen month

35:46

program where we hire the individuals.

35:48

We start with men. We now work with

35:50

men and

35:52

women. and we we have a full holistic

35:54

program that includes high

35:58

school diploma includes

36:00

social emotional

36:00

support, includes group

36:04

support, includes coaching

36:05

and mentoring and job

36:07

skills and training, this

36:09

is the first chance that they have access this

36:12

kind of opportunity. The first chance

36:14

that anyone outside of the

36:16

gangs was hiring, the first chance

36:18

that anyone actually

36:20

cared enough to see individuals

36:22

and support each other.

36:24

The results

36:25

are undisputable,

36:27

so Both the and

36:28

the state have now matched our

36:30

philanthropic funding and are taking

36:32

it to scale,

36:33

which is a great,

36:36

great result. Jose,

36:38

let me

36:38

ask you about the biggest food

36:40

crisis in the world right now,

36:43

which stems from the Russian

36:45

invasion of Ukraine. What can

36:47

be done about that? And

36:50

what is being done about it? Do you think

36:52

it's enough?

36:53

Okay. No. I don't

36:55

think we're doing enough. but

36:57

I

36:57

want to make sure that it's very

36:59

clear. Ukraine has plenty

37:02

of food to feed Ukraine.

37:05

Then people are gonna be asking me

37:07

that they support their efforts towards

37:09

central kitchen. Why

37:12

are you cooking and feeding in Ukraine?

37:14

It's not a problem of lack of food. It's problem of a

37:16

country that is at war and a

37:19

problem of logistics. And what

37:21

we did was organized

37:24

the logistics to make sure that nobody will be left without

37:27

the weight of food. Washington

37:29

Kitchen, I think, was we

37:31

reach one hundred and sixty million

37:34

meals produced by five

37:38

fifty restaurants almost between million and a half to two million meals

37:40

delivered a day around

37:42

seven thousand five

37:44

hundred places And

37:46

I wanna take this moment, used to say, we are

37:49

we got two cooks that they

37:51

were sleeping in a place out of Turkey

37:53

in a town called

37:56

Cheekyev. and a missile hit

37:59

community center. Many

38:01

people buy and two

38:03

of our volunteer cooks down

38:05

that means that. When I used to what

38:08

I saw in Búcha, when you see what I

38:10

saw in

38:12

European, everybody everybody

38:14

If you're not the speaking loud, because you're

38:16

right, because you have social media, that

38:19

this war and no

38:21

war makes any sense, and

38:23

that president Putin in Russia. Right now,

38:26

they've been killing for the last two hundred

38:28

days children and women

38:30

and elderly. no near

38:32

any any military location.

38:35

They are killing people

38:38

that could be you

38:40

or I. This war must end yesterday, and we

38:42

all need to speak louder

38:44

about it. Prime

38:54

minister, I

38:54

wanted you to to

38:57

close for us by reminding

38:59

us in a sense why Bill and Hillary Clinton

39:02

restarted CGI.

39:06

because

39:06

of the urgency of the threats

39:08

and in some sense lack of progress.

39:10

When the UN set up its millennial

39:14

growth, to

39:14

a logic stand they were achieved. Poverty was

39:17

cut

39:17

enormously, and then we faced

39:19

a series

39:21

of challenges And

39:23

now

39:23

we're in a very different place where there's a lot

39:25

of work to do. I know you talked

39:27

to the UN general assembly this morning

39:29

about this. Tell us about

39:31

that. bottom is

39:32

that the world looks too much like it

39:34

did a hundred years ago, but we should

39:36

know better because we have the

39:38

experience of a hundred years ago

39:40

we have educated people, and we have a United Nations that is

39:43

supposed to make a difference. Regrettably,

39:46

there are a

39:48

few countries for whom

39:50

political action from whom political action

39:52

is needed. We needed to

39:54

reform the international

39:56

financial architecture We needed to reform the UN. We saw the

39:58

worst aspect of it when Russia cheered the

39:59

UN in the very month that it went

40:02

into Ukraine.

40:04

How do you have a permanent frame? How do you

40:06

have a United Nations that still looks like an imperial order?

40:08

And until we recognize that

40:10

when that body was formed, There

40:13

were only fifty nation states of the world.

40:16

Today, they're over one hundred and ninety

40:18

three, and we need to ensure that there's

40:20

greater equity. How do you have a

40:22

G twenty? that leaves South

40:24

Africa, the African Union, that has one point four billion people

40:28

weekly. and

40:31

we have to

40:32

level out the claims

40:33

here, and we have to give people an

40:35

opportunity to make a

40:38

difference. I want to thank the Prime

40:40

Minister, Jose Andres, Lauren Powell Jobs, and our host, the Clinton

40:42

Global Initiative for that discussion.

40:44

And thank you to our

40:48

viewers for being part of my program this week. I will see next

40:50

i will see you next me

40:52

week.

40:54

Ever

40:55

wondered what it's really like to live

40:57

like a bird. If so, you don't want

41:00

to miss my conversation with

41:02

Ed Young. I'm doctor Sanjay Gupta, and this week I'm chasing

41:04

life, we discuss how every animal from

41:06

humans to shrimp experienced

41:08

their own sensory bubble. I'll

41:12

share how understanding all this

41:13

made me better at owning

41:15

pets. Listen to chasing life

41:17

on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, iHeartRadio,

41:20

or your favorite

41:24

podcast app.