0:00

Chip Conley: I believe deeply in helping people make a difference out

0:04

there and then feel like, wow, that was a transformational relationship

0:07

with Chip, transformational experience at MEA, et cetera.

0:11

Natasha Miller: Welcome to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

0:14

How do people end up becoming an entrepreneur?

0:16

How do they scale and grow their businesses?

0:19

How do they plan for profit? Are they in it for life or are they building to exit?

0:24

These, and a myriad of other topics will be discussed to pull back the

0:28

veil on the wizardry of successful and FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.

0:34

My book, RELENTLESS is now available everywhere books can be bought online,

0:38

including and BarnesAndNoble.com, try your local indie bookstore too.

0:43

And if they don't have it, they can order it.

0:46

Just ask them. The reviews are streaming in and I'm so thankful for the positive feedback

0:51

as well as hearing from people that my memoir has impacted them positively.

0:56

It is not enough to be resilient.

0:59

You have to be relentless. You can go to TheRelentlessBook.com for more information.

1:06

Thank you so much. After the sale of his boutique hotel Branch, Joie de Vivre, chip

1:14

Conley joined Airbnb as their internal mentor and was called their

1:18

modern elder due to his curiosity.

1:21

In addition to his wisdom Chip's, Modern Elder Academy in Baja, also

1:26

known as MEA, has more than 2000 alums who've come to the breathtaking

1:31

Mexican beachfront campus. MEA will be opening two campuses in Santa Fe, New Mexico in 2020.

1:38

We talk about what he thought he would do while in business school,

1:42

what he learned from mentoring others at Airbnb, and what's ahead for MEA.

1:47

Now, let's get right into it.

1:50

Chip Conley: So as an undergrad at Stanford, after my freshman year, I

1:53

worked in Washington DC and I think my greatest dream early in college was to

1:59

potentially run for office someday, maybe be the mayor of San Francisco, who knows?

2:04

And I then worked in Washington for the summer, like I didn't like that a lot.

2:09

I saw how politics works and how dirty it is.

2:11

You get down the mud with the pigs and you end up dirty and then second

2:17

half of my undergrad, I really focused on business and I wanted to be an

2:20

entrepreneur, and I went into business school straight out of undergrad.

2:23

I worked during my undergrad as well during business school.

2:27

I knew that I wanted to go into the commercial real estate business.

2:29

I sort of, I wanted to be like commercial real estate meets Walt Disney.

2:35

I was born five miles from Disneyland in Orange County, California.

2:39

And so there was a part of me that always was intrigued by Walt Disney's Vision.

2:43

So I wanted to do, Natasha Miller: It's making sense about what I know about you.

2:47

That's wonderful. Yeah. Finish your thought.

2:50

Chip Conley: So, creative commercial development was what I wanted to do, and yeah.

2:53

I, that's what I have done. Natasha Miller: Yeah. So when you were building Joie de Vivre.

2:57

How did you discover. And develop the ideas that made you stand out to people like me, but your

3:04

customers and differentiate yourselves such as what you shared with us at

3:09

MEA, the customer and employee Journeys built the top Maslow's hierarchy.

3:14

Yeah. How did you come to that? Chip Conley: Even though I only took one psychology class in college, psychology

3:19

one, what I really appreciated about psychology was it's valuable your whole

3:24

life unless you're just surrounded by robots because you're understanding how

3:29

humans minds work, including your own.

3:32

And what I was so surprised by in business schools, how little psychology we learned.

3:37

And then what I was surprised by as when I started a company at

3:40

age 26, was how few people really.

3:43

Knew much about humans.

3:46

In the leadership world. So I was from an early age as a CEO at age 26, I was really fascinated by the, the

3:54

intersection of psychology and business. So as I grew my company, I was fascinated by Abraham Maslow's

4:01

hierarchy of needs and how you might. Take that iconic psychology theory and apply it to, in our case, the three most

4:09

important stakeholders, our employees, our customers, and our investors.

4:13

And so I created a pyramid for each of those three stakeholders based upon that.

4:19

And, and I guess more than anything, what I came to realize is that companies

4:24

that actually operate from the peak of the pyramid as opposed to the

4:28

base of the pyramid, are better able to differentiate themselves and not

4:34

become a commodity and create loyalty. Whether it's loyalty to turn your employees, your

4:38

customers, or your investors. Natasha Miller: It sounds to me like you were a very mature 26, 27,

4:44

28 year old, would you say that? Chip Conley: I would say I was very mature in terms of my ambition.

4:51

I was not very mature on the dance floor or in my dating habits or

4:56

in a variety of other things. Natasha Miller: Interesting.

5:00

That's interesting. So you really formulated this idea.

5:04

You didn't have coaches, teachers, mentors, kind of hammering.

5:08

Chip Conley: Yeah. Natasha Miller: Into wonderful. You're a pioneer.

5:11

Chip Conley: So, well, but I did, what I will say is that when I was in my early

5:15

to mid thirties, I reached out to Herb Kelleher at Southwests to be my mentor.

5:19

And of course he said no, but he said through his assistant,

5:22

said, if you write me a, a letter once a year, I'll answer it.

5:26

And assuming that they're, you know, reasonable questions.

5:30

And so from afar, my mentor was Herb Kellerher, the founder

5:33

of, founding CEO of Southwest.

5:36

Natasha Miller: And would he have agreed with you about psychology not being

5:40

studied, people not being studied, and did he share that passion with you?

5:44

Chip Conley: He did, and he also shared a passion around culture.

5:47

He said the most important differentiator for any company is their culture.

5:51

And he spoke about Peter Drucker's famous quote, which is, culture

5:55

eats strategy for breakfast. And so part of the reason I actually did reach out to Herb Kellerher

6:01

originally is because the airline industry had notoriously bad cultures.

6:05

But Southwest Airlines evidently based upon what we saw from the flight

6:08

attendants and just from the spirit of of the, the company had a great culture.

6:14

So that's part of the reason I reached out to him as a.

6:17

Natasha Miller: Okay. So moving down the line, in your career, you mentored the founder of a Airbnb

6:22

and many of the employees for eight years after the sale of your hotels.

6:26

I wanna know what you learned from your time there.

6:30

Chip Conley: Yeah, yeah. It was actually all three founders, but especially Brian, the CEO, and co-founder.

6:36

I'm a big believer in mutual mentorship, so mutual mentorship.

6:40

I also call it being a mentor.

6:43

A mentor, and an intern at the same time. What this really speaks to is the idea that we're constantly able to learn

6:51

from others and they can learn from us. There's a reciprocity to this.

6:55

So what I learned from Brian and the over a hundred mentees I had at Airbnb,

7:02

Seven and a half to eight years was, I think more than anything, I learned

7:06

a lot about the technology world, not just my iPhone and all the uses of

7:10

my iPhone that I didn't know existed. All the, the apps, et cetera.

7:14

But more just how do you develop a website that's sticky and friendly,

7:19

and how do you build a digital company Because I was a bricks and mortar boutique

7:24

hotelier who created 52 boutique hotels around California, but didn't have

7:29

any background in the tech industry. I think I also learned a lot about millennial lifestyle habits and

7:36

travel habits, which I actually think are so relevant to boomers like me.

7:41

They don't believe that millennials don't really believe in the three stage

7:45

life of you earn till you're 20 or 25.

7:47

You learn till you're, I'm sorry, you learn till you're 20, 25.

7:51

You earn until your 60 or 65 and you retire till you

7:54

die, or adjourn till you die. They're like, you know what?

7:57

Everything's episodic. It's not linear.

7:59

So you might actually go get a master's in your mid thirties or take a year long

8:04

gap year or write a book or who knows.

8:07

And also the fact that at Airbnb I learned so much about how millennials

8:13

really wanted to live like a local, and I learned a lot about remote work or

8:17

you know, what we used to call digital nomads, which you don't hear that

8:20

term nearly as much as pre pandemic.

8:23

You heard digital nomads. Now we just say remote work as a broader category, but the idea that people

8:29

could actually live and work on the road, which was some of Airbnb's core

8:33

business users made a lot of sense. So, I learned a ton, and I think that is why they called me the

8:40

modern elder at Airbnb as someone who is as curious as he was wise.

8:45

Natasha Miller: Yes, and I think based on my experience with the

8:49

Modern Elder Academy website, I see.

8:52

And I'm surprised and delighted at your digital functionality and your speaking.

8:57

You know, I'm not a millennial.

9:00

I have one, and that is, you're right, they're all over the place.

9:03

They just get, do whatever it is that they wanna do, whenever they wanna do it.

9:07

Which I admire. But yeah, the site and the way that you incorporate that with your brick and

9:13

mortar and in-person experience is really dialed in beautifully in my opinion.

9:18

Chip Conley: No, and we have a long way to go. We're gonna be doing that this summer, a complete revamp of it.

9:23

But yeah, it serves us pretty well and we're growing into Santa Fe,

9:26

New Mexico next year with a 2,600 acre regenerative horse ranch.

9:31

And we gotta like up our game on our website and, and our

9:35

customer journey to adapt. Natasha Miller: So we're gonna move on to the segue of Modern Elder Academy.

9:40

You have a beautiful resort like retreat center.

9:43

That's how I describe it. Called Modern Elder Academy in Baja.

9:47

Did it ever occur to you when you started it that it might not work?

9:53

And what were your fears when you started putting your plan into motion?

9:56

Chip Conley: One of the challenges. In my life is when I get something in my head and I deeply believe that's true.

10:05

I will jump over tall buildings in a single bound to make it happen.

10:10

And yet, An entrepreneur often doesn't know their limits

10:13

until they've surpassed them. And my limits sometimes are cash flow.

10:18

My limits sometimes are physical health, and my limits are sometimes

10:22

one dimensionality and workaholism. And so I think, you know, I've had to come face-to-face with all of that.

10:29

In my whole history and including at MEA, although from the cashflow

10:33

perspective, I've done really well in my life financially, especially with the

10:36

Airbnb time and therefore the ability to, to help fund this business in the

10:42

early days as it grows into something big has been not as traumatizing as it was

10:48

when I was 26, piecing together a dollar here, a dollar there to start a company.

10:53

But I will say that I sometimes need to have people by my side

10:56

who can be the judicious ones. I don't need doubters, doubters, like they don't do me any good.

11:02

But I do need people who are thoughtful, constructive jousters.

11:08

I, I actually do like to sort of intellectually joust about an idea,

11:12

you know, a business idea, but you may have a great business idea, but then

11:15

you have to execute on it as well. And then there's all of the headwinds of what the economy is like at the time.

11:20

And the pandemic was not good for MEA. Because our singular location at that time was in Baja, who's

11:27

traveling internationally, dedicated and oriented toward people who

11:30

are on average 54 years old.

11:32

It's like not exactly the people who are gonna travel.

11:35

And then thirdly, it's a physically and emotionally intimate experience.

11:39

And during Covid, that was not something people could do,

11:42

so we made it through that. I'm proud of it.

11:46

You know, we're the world's first midlife wisdom school dedicated to helping people

11:50

cultivate and harvest their wisdom so they can reimagine it and repurpose themselves

11:55

mostly in their work life, but also in their personal life, and MEA their, maybe

11:58

their spiritual life, certainly their, you know, relational life and home life.

12:03

Natasha Miller: So there was never a doubt in your mind when you started

12:06

it that it was going to be what it is today and what it'll become?

12:11

Chip Conley: I think that, you know, the doubt, I don't think there was

12:14

a doubt that the concept made sense. I think there was a doubt about how do we execute on it and make it work.

12:19

Natasha Miller: Will people come to Baja? Chip Conley: And will people come to Baja Because, you know, Mexico's

12:22

scary for some people and you know, we're in a very, very safe place.

12:26

Natasha Miller: Yes, you are. Chip Conley: We're also in Mexico, and Mexico has some brand issues

12:31

around the cartels and things like that, which are not in our area.

12:34

But long story short is, I think where I have some doubt sometimes

12:38

is the, to expand as much as we're going to, I don't question the

12:42

demand and there's demand out there. And the quality experience that we deliver, as you

12:46

know, is just off the charts. It's a, to create transformational experiences every single week.

12:52

That's wild. Natasha Miller: Have you ever thought that you should write a book, that you should

12:57

write the story of your life to help other people learn from your experience?

13:02

Please go to memoirsherpa.com and learn how I can help you write, figure out your

13:09

publishing path and market your story, your memoir, to a best seller status.

13:15

What is the most satisfying aspect or element for you with Modern Elder Academy.

13:22

Chip Conley: For me, MEA, there's two sides to it, and

13:25

they're sort of opposites. I think the most satisfying is just the personal

13:30

transformational stories I've seen. I know when I die someday, I will have a lot of people, a lot of people at my

13:37

funeral and a lot of people who wanna give eulogy and it's partly because I'm living

13:43

a life based upon the Eric Developmental psychologist, Eric Erickson's point of

13:47

view, which is I am what survives me. And so I believe deeply in helping people make a difference out there and then feel

13:56

like, wow, that was a transformational relationship with Chip, transformational

13:59

experience at MEA, et cetera. I Mean, that's sort of the.

14:04

The thing that's most meaningful to me, but the other side is the opposite.

14:07

The opposite is not the opposite, but something at the other end of the

14:10

spectrum, which is beyond the individual transformational journeys, I deeply want

14:16

to create a new category, a combination of a category of education called

14:21

midlife wisdom schools, and a category of residential experience communities, which

14:27

we're building also these regenerative residential communities that is Meant

14:31

to disrupt retirement communities. So in some ways, I have this very personal sense of like why I'm doing

14:37

this, and then I have this really. Pioneering legacy, big picture perspective of Chip was the one who

14:44

helped put new categories on the map.

14:48

Midlife was in schools and regenerative residential communities,

14:50

so I'm excited about both. And sometimes I need to focus a little bit more on one versus the

14:56

other because I can get a little too focused on one or the other.

15:00

And they're nice. They're like barbells. They're nicely balance.

15:03

Natasha Miller: And you have a team with you. Chip Conley: Oh, for sure.

15:05

Natasha Miller: That is probably balanced as well in their concentration

15:09

and excitement for either or endeavor.

15:12

Chip Conley: Yeah. So yeah, I think that some people are more drawn to the intimacy of those

15:16

relationships of transformation. Some are more drawn to the big vision.

15:21

So, and I think what we have to do is be focused on both.

15:25

The truth is, if we do the first thing, The second thing is more likely to happen.

15:29

Natasha Miller: Yeah. Chip Conley: So that's why in some ways it's the more important thing.

15:31

Natasha Miller: Yeah. Chip Conley: Because it's the fuel that allows the second thing to happen.

15:35

Natasha Miller: Yeah. Chip Conley: But if you only did the first thing, and you know, there's times when I said like, all right, we should just stay in Baja.

15:40

And that would've been great and that would've satisfied the first thing.

15:42

It might not have as satisfied. The second thing, because.

15:45

97% of our people who come to MEA are not from Mexico.

15:49

And so to be able to, Natasha Miller: not to uproot and spend the rest of their lives in Mexico.

15:56

Chip Conley: So so to be able to go and to Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is our next

16:00

place where we have two huge campuses and then a huge residential community there.

16:05

Now we start to do something that has even more poof of concept in our biggest

16:09

market, which is the American market. We ha we have over 3000 alumni from 42 countries and we have 26

16:14

regional chapters around the world. So it's, it's a movement.

16:18

Natasha Miller: By the time, I was with the Inc Magazine Master's Group

16:22

at Modern Elder Academy this year.

16:24

You had led many groups through this really brilliant curriculum,

16:28

in my opinion, which I'm still studying, and Mike Walters and I

16:33

are writing a little story about it. Chip Conley: Oh, great.

16:35

Natasha Miller: How many iterations of that curriculum has it gone through

16:39

to what it is today and how do you think that core curriculum may change?

16:45

Be different in the future. Chip Conley: Yeah. Let's talk about the curriculum for a second.

16:48

So the curriculum is dedicated to the idea people helping people to reframe

16:51

their relationship with aging and live a regenerative lifestyle based

16:55

upon the idea of helping them move from a fixed to a growth mindset.

16:59

Learn how to navigate transitions and cultivate their wisdom in ways

17:05

that actually are not just good for themselves, but as a leader or as a team.

17:10

Companies today are very focused on knowledge management, but I think

17:14

it's time for us to start asking ourselves about wisdom management.

17:17

How do you cultivate wisdom within an organization? So that's the curriculum.

17:20

It's taken, you know, we've been doing this for over five years.

17:23

I would say there's been four major iterations along the way and

17:27

we are probably gonna move into a fifth major iteration in the next

17:31

year with opening in Santa Fe. So it's gotten better and better, that's for sure.

17:36

We have people who've come eight times, like they've come in, done workshops

17:39

and they, so those are obviously our robust evangelists, but we also hear

17:43

from them how it's improved with time. So that's, you know, an important metric for us is what do our cheerleading

17:51

customers believe, do they feel like we're getting better with time?

17:53

Generally, most of us as customers feel the opposite because disappointment

17:58

equals expectations minus reality. So you build an expectation if you're an evangelist for a business, like

18:04

I just love it, and then that's a high bar to actually adhere

18:08

to, and yet we continue to meet.

18:11

We're not perfect, but I would say our net promoter scores are the highest that

18:15

anybody's ever seen in the education or the hospitality business, so that's good.

18:20

Natasha Miller: What would you say you think MEA's success is attributed

18:25

to, I have my own as somebody that has attended, but you as the founder,

18:30

CEO, what would you attribute if you were telling Katie Corick?

18:34

What is one thing I'll let her know?

18:36

We talked, Chip Conley: I'm gonna say there's two, and these are things that I haven't

18:40

talked about yet on this podcast. Number one is how do you.

18:44

Create the conditions for a community of like-minded people to come

18:50

together in the course of five to seven days in a way that is profound.

18:55

And full of life-changing conversations.

18:57

So the social community and the connection is paramount.

19:01

But along with that is the subtle and behind the scenes ways that we help

19:06

people to learn how to be vulnerable and to become a beginner again.

19:10

No one came down here saying, I'm going to MEA cause I wanna

19:13

learn to be a beginner again. But at the end of the week, I think two of the things are most profound are, "Wow,

19:19

do I feel connected to these people?" And number two is, I feel like I have more options in my life because

19:26

if I'm open to being a beginner, again, I am open to new options and

19:31

new ways of being and doing things.

19:33

So that's what we do. And it, there's a, both an art and a science to it.

19:39

Natasha Miller: Yes, I was watching that. I really didn't know what to expect.

19:42

I went for reasons that were other than what MEA is for.

19:47

And I just wanted to say that- Chip Conley: because, because you went for INC, INC Masters, you, you were,

19:52

Natasha Miller: I went for INC Masters. Chip Conley: Yeah. Natasha Miller: Access to those kind of people and-

19:56

Chip Conley: Yeah, Natasha Miller: -the magazine, but also to be around you who, for me.

20:01

You know, you've been an inspiration and a, you don't know this, but

20:04

some sort of a mentor to me. And what I came out of there was watching how quickly you

20:10

got a group to bond so deeply.

20:13

That was within the first 24 hours.

20:15

Yeah. And then the transformations that happened with people that

20:21

weren't there for transformation, didn't believe in transformations.

20:25

Thought they'd already transformed to never transform again.

20:29

You know, our group is a little bit different of a makeup than your typical

20:33

MEA group because we're all entrepreneurs.

20:36

We all put our hands up for being on the Inc 5,000.

20:40

We all made that list. Then we all opted into the master's program.

20:45

Then we said, As a small little group to coming to MEA.

20:51

And what you had in your hands was this ripe version of very

20:57

scaling and growth mindset. People that have had.

21:00

Lots of success of various ages.

21:02

So I think 28 to 60 something early sixties.

21:07

And that just made the perfect storm of an incredible group that to

21:12

this day, if you saw our whatsapp. Yeah.

21:14

You're so congested with participation.

21:18

Yeah. And we're flying across the country to see each other on a regular basis.

21:23

Chip Conley: I saw almost all of you at in Austin.

21:26

At Southwest. Southwest. Natasha Miller: I would never have planned to go this year for any reason.

21:31

The only reason I came was to be with that group of people.

21:36

And the cherry on the top was that you were going to make an appearance

21:39

and we were able to see you there too. Yeah.

21:42

So thank you. And of course I speak very highly about MEA to EO, the Genius Network.

21:48

Everyone I can talk to about it and you know, eventually that trickle through.

21:52

I think a lot of the people that have gone through MEA are just like me.

21:56

I'm not special. Chip Conley: Oh my God. Natasha Miller: People are doing the same thing.

21:59

Chip Conley: It's so beautiful. I mean, we do so little marketing.

22:02

We do some sales. We have, you've talked to Kiara, who's doing some direct sales for us now, but

22:07

I mean, I, our marketing team's tiny.

22:09

It's a couple people. And so to have a business like ours, it's so much rest on creating

22:16

the transformative experiences so that our alumni tell the

22:20

world, and so we appreciate that. Natasha Miller: The next question is, What is the one thing that you're

22:26

doubling down on for strategy, for growth?

22:28

And I don't mean necessarily opening the new Santa Fe area.

22:32

Which is definitely a strategy for growth, but what are you doing to

22:35

turn those wheels to expand people's knowledge of it, their discovery of it?

22:41

Chip Conley: I would say that one of the things that we're curious about,

22:43

since we have very active regional chapters and very active alumni, I love,

22:48

you know, back in the day there were Tupperware parties, there is Amway, there

22:53

were all these things that people did. You had a Tupperware party to learn about, like these old plastic things

22:58

or you know, like what a crazy idea.

23:01

But the idea of bringing people together in someone's home to have life-changing

23:08

conversations is sort of what we do.

23:11

And so I think the idea, I call this the plus one movement, and how do we get our

23:15

alumni to come together and have a meal?

23:19

Around some topics and questions and bring a plus one so that both the alumni

23:25

have a great dinner and conversation, but the plus ones really get that flavor.

23:30

And I think that's a huge, there's a huge opportunity in that because I go

23:34

back to the Tupperware party idea, is that there was a time when people, and

23:38

I think people are so thirsty for social connection these days, and we are now

23:43

in a place where it's more comfortable for us to have a meal together.

23:47

After the pandemic. So that's a simple idea.

23:51

There's a bunch of other things too. I have a book coming out next January called Learning to Love Midlife,

23:57

and the subtitle is 12 Reasons Why Life Gets Better With Age.

24:01

And we'll do a huge promotional thing on that.

24:04

And that book probably will hit the New York Times Best Seller List and there

24:08

will be a whole PR tour around that.

24:11

So, those are the kinds of things we'll be doing.

24:13

We'll have a great grand opening party in Santa Fe.

24:16

Michael Frante has already said he's gonna be our headliner

24:19

for music at there because he's actually an MEA faculty member.

24:23

So yeah, we lot planned. Natasha Miller: So the last you be able to talk about is the opening of Santa Fe.

24:30

Give us an idea of when it'll open, what it'll be like.

24:35

Chip Conley: So when we open in Santa Fe, we'll have two campuses.

24:39

The first one will be open in 2024, approximately start of

24:44

spring or maybe end of the year. It's a 2,600 acre regenerative, a horse ranch.

24:50

It'll have two houses there, two, one with 21 bedrooms, the other with 22

24:54

bedrooms in this most beautiful part of the world, land of enchantment,

24:59

lots of hiking, lots of horseback riding, and you know, mountain

25:03

biking right there on the property. That property is gonna be, it's perfect for people who want to be in nature.

25:09

The other property, which will open in 2025, is beautiful hiking near it, but

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it's actually on Museum Hill in in town.

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It's next door to St. John's College in a very beautiful residential neighborhood, and it's a

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former Catholic retreat center, and seminary, historic property that

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is more like the urban experience. Now, urban when it comes to Santa Fe is not that urban.

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So if you're country mouse, so to speak, you'll like the ranch if you're a city.

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You'll like the Sunmount campus, which is what it's called, and because

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that's a historical name for it, and so Santa Fe is a beautiful place to go.

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Sometimes people are saying, I like Santa Fe, but I need a reason to go there.

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This gives you a reason to go, come and spend a week with us, and then go

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spend two or three days in town eating at great restaurants and checking out

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spectacular galleries and enjoying just the vibe of a place that actually feels

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often, like it's not in the United States.

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For more information, go to the show notes where you're listening to this podcast.

26:16

Wanna know more about me, go to my website OfficialNatashaMiller.com.

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Thank you so much for listening. I hope you loved the show.

26:25

If you did, please subscribe. Also, if you haven't done so yet, please leave a review where you're

26:32

listening to this podcast now. I'm Natasha Miller.

26:35

And you've been listening to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.