0:02

Welcome to episode 298

0:08

of FBI retired case

0:10

file review with Jerry

0:13

Williams. I'm a retired

0:15

agent on a mission to show you

0:17

who the FBI is and what the FBI

0:20

does through my books, my blog

0:22

and my podcast case reviews with

0:24

former colleagues. Today we get

0:26

to speak to once again

0:29

retired agent Jonathan

0:31

Johnny Grusin who served

0:33

in the FBI for 25 years. In this

0:36

episode Johnny

0:38

reviews his and his National

0:41

Park Service co-case agent Beth

0:43

Schott's investigation of Harold

0:46

Henthorne for murdering his

0:48

first and second wives. They

0:50

gathered the evidence to prove the

0:53

murders were premeditated and

0:55

made to look like accidents. Henthorne's

0:58

wife Lynn was crushed when

1:00

he caused a car to fall on her

1:03

and his wife Tony died after he pushed

1:05

her from a cliff while they were hiking in

1:07

Rocky Mountain National Park. Before

1:10

their deaths both wives were dominated

1:12

by Henthorne who they thought was

1:14

a strong successful Christian

1:17

man. During Johnny's

1:19

career he worked violent crime

1:21

to include bank robberies, kidnappings,

1:24

missing persons, serial rapists,

1:26

serial killings and special jurisdiction

1:29

homicides. In 2008 Grusin

1:31

was named as the

1:34

behavioral analysis unit BAU

1:36

coordinator for Colorado consulting

1:39

on difficult or unusual homicides

1:42

or missing persons cases throughout

1:44

the state. Johnny is currently

1:46

the director of safety and security

1:49

for the Douglas County School District in

1:51

Colorado and manages

1:53

his own investigative consulting

1:56

service. He is completing a book

1:58

about his investigation of

1:59

serial killer and former FBI

2:02

informant Scott Kimball. He

2:04

reviewed this case on FBI retired

2:06

case file review episode 276.

2:08

Now before we get to the interview, I want

2:14

to reveal the identity of my

2:16

headliner guest for the 300th episode

2:18

of FBI

2:21

retired case file review. Let

2:23

me tell you, I swung for the fences

2:25

and scored big with

2:27

a 40-minute plus interview

2:30

with current

2:33

FBI director

2:34

Christopher Wray. I

2:38

asked him

2:38

the questions I thought you

2:41

would want me to cover. The epic

2:43

episode will be released on the evening

2:45

of Wednesday November the 1st.

2:48

Also on the show will be best-selling

2:51

author and National Academy graduate

2:53

Isabella Maldonado to discuss

2:56

writing about the FBI and crime

2:58

fiction and retired agent

3:00

and TV producer Anne Began

3:03

to talk about the FBI and true

3:06

crime. It is what I'm calling

3:08

a mic drop event.

3:11

You can listen to a 30-second clip of

3:13

my interview with a director on social

3:15

media or in my October

3:17

reader team email which

3:20

I wrote about attending CrimeCon 2023

3:22

in Orlando last month.

3:26

Wow what a powerful and

3:28

unbelievable conference. Now

3:30

remember I started this podcast

3:33

because I was trying to find potential

3:35

readers for my crime novels. So

3:37

if you want to show me your love

3:40

for putting out 300 plus episodes

3:43

please consider buying my

3:46

two FBI crime novels,

3:48

Pay to Play and Greedy Givers available

3:51

as ebooks, paperbacks and

3:54

audiobooks wherever books are

3:56

sold. Don't forget I'm traveling

3:59

to Brazil.

5:54

episodes

6:01

out there with other podcasters

6:07

this will probably be the first

6:09

one where

6:12

somebody who actually was involved in the investigation

6:15

has taken listeners through the case. So

6:19

I really appreciate you being here

6:21

today. I think

6:23

before we go into the details, if we could first explain

6:25

to everyone how the FBI

6:27

got involved in it. Because the FBI normally,

6:30

although you see it a lot on true crime

6:33

shows, doesn't

6:35

normally get involved in

6:37

murder and missing person type

6:40

cases. There has to be a federal

6:42

nexus. And so before

6:44

we go into the details, could you talk a little

6:46

bit more about that?

6:48

You're exactly right, Jerry. We don't investigate

6:51

simple homicides. That's the county

6:53

and municipal and city police

6:56

departments that investigate those. This

6:58

one though happened in Rocky Mountain National

7:00

Park which does have exclusive

7:03

federal jurisdiction. So the FBI

7:05

partnered with the National Park Service

7:09

and we became the primary investigators

7:11

because this is federal land.

7:13

All right. So where do you want to start

7:16

with the case?

7:17

So I'd probably like to start with this coming

7:20

out in the paper. I remember reading it.

7:22

I subscribe to the newspaper so I see

7:24

what's going on. I even do it now even though it's

7:26

digital. But I remember Jerry

7:28

reading this article and we

7:31

have people fall from mountains,

7:33

unfortunately. I wouldn't say all the time

7:35

but very frequently. We've had a couple

7:38

even last month here in Colorado where you

7:40

see the little articles that someone fell

7:42

to their death. And I remembered

7:45

reading this one and the

7:48

obituary was that Tony Henthorn,

7:50

age 50, passed away on Saturday,

7:53

September 29, 2012 as

7:55

a result of a tragic accident in Rocky

7:57

Mountain National State Park. Talks about...

8:00

out when she was born, that she was a physician,

8:02

incredibly loved, and that her surviving

8:05

spouse was Harold Henthorn.

8:07

In September of 2012, I wasn't assigned in this case. I

8:12

wasn't involved in it for almost two years.

8:15

The year 2012 was a very

8:18

challenging year for us in the Denver FBI. We

8:21

had the Aurora theater attack, and

8:24

following that, I and another

8:26

agent investigated a woman in

8:28

Charleston, South Carolina, who had

8:30

tried to, on Facebook, get 70 to 90 people

8:33

to come attack

8:35

Littleton and Columbine the night

8:38

of that Aurora theater attack,

8:40

because she had seen online what had happened,

8:42

and I spent two months investigating

8:44

that and arresting her going out to South

8:47

Carolina. Then we had Jessica

8:49

Ridgway disappear. She was a

8:51

10-year-old walking to school on October 5, 2012.

8:55

That took every day of a

8:57

lot of our lives for almost two

8:59

months until we were able to bring

9:02

her killer to justice, but that sucked a lot

9:04

of life out of everyone. We had another

9:06

missing child, Dylan Redwine. So 2012

9:09

was a very busy year for me, and I

9:12

was not involved at all in Tony's

9:14

death. However, it was assigned to

9:16

an FBI agent to

9:18

work with the Park Service to try

9:20

to figure out if this was a

9:23

push or a fall because

9:25

of Harold's very odd statements

9:27

that he had made to the Park Service when

9:30

the Ranger had arrived on scene. So

9:33

Harold's odd statements, the

9:36

vast area that they were in

9:38

and the remoteness of this cliff and

9:41

the unlikelihood that a 50-year-old,

9:44

highly accomplished doctor in Cherry Creek

9:46

would just plunge over the edge. And

9:49

finally, life insurance policies on

9:51

her that National Park Service discovered

9:53

were secretive but in existence

9:56

all led to a ton of red flags.

9:59

So this is a very busy year.

9:59

This, the FBI and the Park Service

10:02

investigated this through 2013.

10:06

So my first interaction

10:08

with this case came in the summer

10:11

of 2013. I was at

10:13

an Einstein's coffee shop in Highlands

10:15

Ranch, which is where both I

10:18

live and Harold Henthorn lives.

10:21

And my wife and I were there grabbing coffee and

10:23

I saw our evidence response team, all

10:25

of them dressed up ready to go for a

10:27

search in my neighborhood. So

10:29

I asked them what was going on and they said they were

10:31

searching Harold Henthorn's house.

10:35

And I put it together, that was the woman who fell from

10:37

the cliff. Yes, and they told me a little bit about

10:39

the case. And one of the interesting things

10:41

they were looking for was a diamond, which

10:44

we'll talk about later. So I was briefed

10:46

on the case just over coffee. And

10:48

then a few months later, I was walking

10:51

down the hall in the FBI building

10:53

and I ran into the case agent, his

10:56

name's Chris. And Chris

10:58

asked me what I thought about

11:00

Harold being a serial killer. And

11:02

I said, I didn't really know much about the case.

11:05

And he said, well,

11:06

Harold

11:07

disappears on Thursdays and

11:10

he has for 20 years. Chris

11:12

was confident that Tony was

11:14

pushed, not an accidental

11:17

fall over the edge of the cliff that

11:19

day in September 2012. But

11:21

he said that Harold's first wife

11:23

had died also in a freak accident.

11:26

Way back in 1995. And

11:29

he said the mysteriousness of both

11:32

freak accidents, killing wives,

11:35

Harold benefiting financially and then

11:38

him disappearing on Thursdays for a 20 year

11:41

period was very suspicious

11:43

and he thought Harold might be going out to kill people.

11:46

So we talked about serial killers 101,

11:49

which I had learned from the behavioral analysis

11:51

unit and I told Chris,

11:54

let me know if I can help, but it was his case.

11:56

All right. Could you, for those who haven't

11:59

had a chance...

11:59

tends to listen to episode 276.

12:03

Can you talk about why

12:06

he's asking you, why he's coming to you

12:08

and your connection with

12:10

the behavioral analysis unit

12:13

down in Quantico?

12:14

Sure. Yes,

12:15

starting in 2006, so

12:17

seven years before this, I had been

12:19

investigating Scott Kimball who was

12:21

an informant of ours who had

12:24

killed multiple people, unbeknownst to the FBI.

12:27

Not right now, we think it's over a 20-year

12:29

period. And by 2009, I was going out on

12:33

body hunts in the desert and in

12:35

the mountains with Mr. Kimball

12:38

to recover some of his victims. And

12:40

then I had worked closely with the

12:42

profiling unit because I had no idea

12:45

how to deal with serial killers and

12:47

they were spectacular in coaching me

12:49

and bringing me along. Following the

12:52

Kimball case, which continued to

12:55

go even after his sentencing because

12:57

we were investigating more and more victims,

13:00

I was assigned to work other one-time,

13:03

very interesting cases that required

13:05

a liaison with the profiling unit. And

13:07

this was one of them. So for now, about

13:10

seven years, I was working cases like

13:13

Harold's with the assistance of the profiling

13:15

unit. That was November of 2013 when

13:18

I had the conversation with Chris. And

13:20

then fast forward to maybe May

13:23

of 2014, my boss

13:25

called me in his office, my supervisor,

13:27

and said, the US attorneys have asked

13:30

that you come look at this Harold Henthorn

13:32

case. And I asked if I would go

13:34

meet them at the office. I said, absolutely.

13:37

So I went and met with what became a fantastic

13:40

team. The team was Valeria Spencer,

13:43

prosecutor, Sunita Hazra,

13:45

prosecutor, Beth Schott,

13:47

who was the Park Service agent, and Dana

13:49

Chamberlain, who was our finance wizard.

13:52

And they explained to me the oddness

13:56

of Harold and the unlikelihood

13:58

that Tony went over the years to work. She

16:00

found where Harold had taken Tony

16:02

off trail. Now off trail

16:05

means there's no markings. It's

16:07

heavily forested. You're walking over

16:10

huge trees that have fallen in between, very

16:12

dense forest at the times, and

16:15

you lose your bearings pretty quickly. But

16:17

Beth knew exactly where she was going, and she

16:19

took us off trail for 20 minutes and

16:22

took us to what she called the lunch spot.

16:25

The lunch spot is a

16:28

place that's, again,

16:30

it's about a 20-minute walk. It's not that far,

16:33

maybe only a mile, but

16:35

it takes forever to get there from the trail. And

16:38

then you have a panoramic view of the mountains.

16:41

There's big rocks going downward. And

16:44

Harold had taken one of the last

16:46

selfies of himself and Tony at

16:49

this, quote, lunch spot. And they're

16:51

both smiling, look like they're having a great time on

16:53

this hike.

16:54

So it's off trail, but hikers

16:57

do go there because of the view.

16:59

We don't know that anybody had gone here,

17:01

Jerry. We figure that they had because

17:04

of the view, but there's no spot there

17:06

that had any sort of

17:08

markings or food or whatever. It's

17:11

looking backwards now. It took Harold a

17:13

long time to find this place. But

17:16

no, in Colorado, hikers go

17:18

everywhere. So I'm sure somebody had been here before,

17:20

but there's nothing clearly marked

17:23

about it.

17:23

All right. So the name,

17:26

lunch spot, was just something that Beth

17:28

made up. That's right. It's

17:30

not. It wasn't... Okay. So

17:33

I was seeing it as a marking on a map lunch spot. Let

17:35

me ask you just one question. Was

17:37

Harold a hiker? I understand

17:40

that Tony wasn't, but was

17:42

Harold?

17:43

Harold liked to be outdoors and

17:45

they hiked some around their cabin, which was

17:48

by a lake. It's about an hour drive from here,

17:50

back further in the mountains. But he wasn't

17:53

super athletic. I mean, he's in his

17:56

mid to late 50s at this point. Not

17:58

in great shape, but not in horrible shape. shape. Tony

18:01

had had three significant

18:03

knee surgeries by this time. She was a good athlete

18:05

in high school, basketball player,

18:08

but by this point, she wasn't super

18:10

mobile and she didn't ski

18:13

and stuff like that. So if

18:15

she skied, it was, you know, very carefully.

18:18

So she would have done this

18:20

in our opinion, you know,

18:22

and this, of course, hindsight's 2020, to

18:24

please Harold to go up on this hill

18:27

because this was their 12th wedding

18:29

anniversary and Harold had

18:31

called her office, the Cherry Creek Eye

18:33

Surgeons, about two weeks ahead of time

18:36

to set up him swooping in as

18:38

a surprise and whisking

18:41

her out of work to take her to the Stanley

18:43

Hotel, which is near the bottom

18:46

of Deer Mountain. Have you heard of the Stanley Hotel

18:48

before? No, I haven't. Is

18:50

it a famous spot? It

18:53

is. It's famous to us around here because

18:55

it was the hotel referred to in The

18:57

Shining. Oh, okay. That's the Jeff

18:59

Nicholson story. So it's pretty

19:02

creepy that he was taking her

19:04

to the Stanley, but everybody, including

19:06

Tony's friends, they're at work and whatever

19:09

thought, well, Harold's whisking her off to this romantic

19:11

hotel, right, for their anniversary. Instead,

19:14

they go on this pretty difficult hike,

19:16

especially considering Tony's knees, and

19:18

they're at the top of the hill. Then

19:20

they go off trail for 20 minutes.

19:24

And then from this lunch spot,

19:26

and we named these so we could have them

19:28

clearly in our minds where they were, but you're right,

19:30

it wasn't a lunch spot for anybody else but them.

19:33

Then they hike down over these three

19:35

to four foot jagged boulders to

19:38

go to the cliff. And the

19:40

cliff is very

19:44

dangerous. Well, you can walk up to it. You

19:46

can see it barely from the lunch spot, but

19:48

it takes another 20 minutes to... You

19:51

can't even walk down these boulders. You have to

19:53

go sit on your butt, get your legs

19:55

to find footing for the next rock, step there,

19:58

sit on your butt, find your foot. footing for the

20:00

next rock because there's nothing easy about

20:02

this pathway down and there's no path

20:05

that's one you make of it. But this had

20:07

to be even more difficult for Tony

20:09

to follow Harold down to

20:11

the edge of this cliff. And

20:13

when you finally get to the cliff that Beth

20:16

took us to, it had what's called

20:18

a crow's nest. And I

20:20

learned a crow's nest is a little

20:22

half semicircle that

20:25

sticks up about two feet off the ground that

20:28

you can come and put your knees up against if

20:30

you want. But it's almost a

20:32

designed piece in

20:35

that rock face to keep you from walking

20:37

straight over the edge of the cliff. So Tony

20:40

and Harold had taken pictures of each other

20:42

at this crow's

20:44

nest and that's supposedly where Tony

20:47

went right over the edge. And that's what Harold

20:49

said. She went over the edge. He said he wasn't

20:51

looking at the time, but she definitely was

20:54

pushed, we believe at this point, over the

20:56

cliff because right from that

20:58

crow's nest straight down, about 130

21:00

to 150 feet is where she finally impacted

21:06

and Harold recovered her

21:08

down there. So Beth,

21:11

once you go to that

21:13

push, we called it the lunch spot and the push spot

21:16

or the cliff. So once you look at that,

21:18

Jerry, there is no reason for anybody

21:21

to be close to that thing or stand

21:23

up on it. It doesn't have any better view

21:25

than the lunch spot did and it is very,

21:27

very dangerous because the fall would

21:30

be straight down. There were pictures,

21:32

like I said, on both phones. Tony

21:34

would get her knees up against

21:37

that crow's nest, but she

21:39

would not raise up from the sitting position. We

21:41

have one picture of her close to

21:43

it. You can tell she's posing for Harold, pretending

21:45

like in our opinion that she's having fun.

21:48

Harold, however, had Tony take pictures

21:50

of him as he's standing up on the

21:53

ledge of this thing, looking down,

21:56

which is crazy dangerous. I mean, I don't

21:58

even think I would have done that when I was 17.

21:59

years old.

22:01

In our opinion... Go ahead.

22:03

No, I think you're thinking the same thing I am.

22:05

And it is, I think he was coaxing her to stand

22:08

up there and say, you've got to look

22:10

at this. And yeah, you're exactly

22:12

right. We don't believe she did. And it's because

22:14

of some of the clues Harold gave

22:17

us later on. So from that

22:19

very dangerous cliff spot, Beth walked

22:22

us around. There's almost a

22:24

curved way to get down to the bottom where

22:27

Tony was recovered by the years.

22:30

And it took us about seven minutes

22:32

to hike down there. And we weren't running.

22:35

We were hiking fairly fast, but it's

22:37

a lot easier to get to than that from

22:39

the lunch spot to the push spot. So

22:43

the recovery spot down

22:46

there, Beth showed us where Harold had

22:49

taken her out of a tree. She had

22:51

impacted a tree and he

22:53

had dragged her to a place

22:55

of what

22:58

he would say safety. It was about 10

23:01

feet below the tree. But what Beth

23:03

said, the coroner had told us is

23:06

that Tony had most likely bled

23:08

out there. But that's where Ranger Farity

23:11

found her. It took the Rangers two

23:13

hours to find her at the bottom

23:16

of that cliff. So top

23:18

of the cliff, bottom of the cliff. And

23:21

Harold said, again, when Tony went over the

23:23

edge, he was looking at the soccer text. The

23:25

soccer text came from the babysitter who

23:27

was watching their seven year old daughter, Haley.

23:30

And the soccer text said that Haley's

23:32

team had won and the score was five

23:34

to one. And Harold said he was looking

23:37

at that text when Tony went

23:39

over the edge. That's why he didn't see it. I

23:41

think it'd be good for your listeners to hear

23:43

the 911 call. It's only

23:45

about a minute, 30 seconds. Harold made

23:47

this call when he was at the bottom of the cliff.

23:50

He had pulled Tony out of the tree and he

23:54

called dispatch. So I think now would be a good

23:56

time to play it. All right.

23:58

This

24:02

is Estes and we have a gentleman

24:04

on Deer Mountain. Go ahead, sir.

24:06

Thank you. My wife has fallen from

24:08

Iraq on the North Summit

24:10

of Deer Mountain on

24:12

the Deer Mountain Trail

24:14

when she's in really critical

24:17

condition. She's at a bad fall. How

24:20

far is she at fall, sir? 30, 40 feet, 30

24:23

feet. Do you think 30, 40 feet?

24:26

I think 30 feet. 30 feet. Are

24:28

you with her now? I can't be sure. I am. Let

24:31

me be sure that you know my location first because we have

24:33

really bad cell coverage. Okay.

24:36

I'm on Deer Mountain near

24:38

the summit, not the normal regular

24:41

northern summit from the southern outcrops. Southern

24:44

outcrops? If you look up

24:47

south from the Fall Mountain Visitor

24:49

Center, there are two very large

24:51

outcrops. We are not on either one of

24:53

those two. We are between the two. You're between

24:56

the two outcrops

24:57

that you can see from FRE, from

24:59

Fall River.

25:00

We are approximately 9,800 feet. I've

25:02

got a table. Let

25:04

me see if I can give you a latitude. Latitude. North

25:07

latitude, about 23

25:10

minutes, about 15 seconds. Longitude,

25:13

west, 105. Approximately.

25:16

I'm sorry, west where? 105 degrees

25:19

west.

25:20

Longitude. Latitude, 35

25:23

degrees. Latitude, 35

25:25

minutes, approximately 20

25:28

seconds. I'll

25:30

say again, we are not on the two large steep

25:33

outcrops. We are in the area between

25:35

them. On two deep

25:38

outcrops, but in between. Hold on for one

25:40

second. Okay. Alright.

25:43

Thanks. I

25:49

didn't get any of

25:54

your

25:58

questions.

25:59

Okay, who am I talking to?

26:02

My name is Harold. I'll show it to you in a moment. Are

26:04

you with the patient? Yes, I am. Yes. I

26:06

already have Rangers getting ready to come up there.

26:08

So if you're at F.I.R.E.

26:10

looking at Deer Mountain, you're

26:12

looking at

26:12

two outcrops and this person is between

26:14

the two outcrops? Yes. If you're looking

26:17

from the visitor center directly south, magnetic south,

26:20

you'll see two large outcrops about 9,800 feet. They're

26:22

very steep. We are not on those

26:24

two. We are between the two, about 200

26:26

feet off the crest of the hill.

26:29

Okay.

26:30

And tell me some

26:32

things about the patient. She

26:34

is a white steep male, 50 years old,

26:36

great health. She has respiration,

26:39

approximately five to eight beats

26:41

a minute. Her pulse is about

26:44

between 60 and 80 beats a minute. Okay,

26:46

what's her main injury? Head

26:48

injury. Head injury. Good question.

26:51

Okay, any other injuries? To be internal,

26:53

I don't know. Is she conscious in breathing? No,

26:55

she's not. She has not been conscious. She is

26:57

breathing. We're between

26:59

five and eight beats a minute

27:01

now. Okay. Hold on just a second. Okay.

27:11

Okay, you have

27:13

to keep her warm. So I'm

27:16

going to keep on doing two breaths and

27:19

then 30 pups. Okay.

27:30

Okay. And tell me when you start with

27:32

the two breaths. You're

27:36

telling me that's what I've been doing. Okay. What

27:38

I'm going to do now is I'm going to count for you as

27:40

you go through the breath. I got my computer on and I can count

27:42

so we can make sure we're getting that one through.

27:45

We still have battery left. I've got to

27:47

turn off because that's a thing. Okay.

27:51

I will let you go. Call 911 any time.

27:57

And again, instead of calling

27:59

right when she's here, fell before he made

28:01

his way down there. He waited until

28:03

he got all the way to where she

28:06

was and moved her before

28:08

he made this call. He not only did

28:10

that, that's an excellent observation, he

28:12

waited so that we believe

28:15

that she was last alive

28:17

on the cliff face at five o'clock p.m.

28:19

based upon all the photos.

28:21

He does not make the 911 call Jerry

28:24

until 5.55 p.m. So it's a seven minute

28:28

hike down there and we're

28:31

missing about 45 to 50 minutes

28:34

before he actually calls 911. Another

28:37

big problem for Harold was that

28:39

when he got down to the bottom

28:42

of the cliff, he does not even turn his phone

28:44

on until 5.54 p.m.

28:47

At 5.54 p.m., that is when

28:49

the soccer text comes in, Haley,

28:52

their team, won five to one. You

28:54

remember what he said before is that's the reason

28:57

why he didn't see Tony go over the edge of the cliff.

28:59

This is 54 minutes later. All

29:02

right, I can see why as

29:04

they were investigating this, these

29:06

little red flags started making them

29:08

think there may be more to

29:11

this than a simple fall from a cliff.

29:14

Yep, well

29:15

there's so many things that are troubling about the call.

29:17

It's his tone of voice, it's

29:20

his detail, intense

29:22

detail. It took us a while,

29:24

probably 10 to 15 times to listen to it

29:27

to catch the very subtle statement

29:29

Harold makes and it's, I want to be sure

29:31

you know my location. Again,

29:33

he's asking for a rescue team to come save

29:35

his wife. He doesn't even mention

29:38

Tony. He doesn't even mention my

29:40

wife and I. He says, my location.

29:43

He's talking to the dispatch operator

29:45

like I'm talking to you right now. The lack

29:48

of any sort of urgency in

29:50

Harold's voice and he's intent that she gets

29:52

the detail he wants her to have. And

29:54

it's not focused at all on Tony. It's all

29:56

about him and how much he knows. Harold

29:59

provided. his latitude and

30:01

longitude coordinates. He even interrupted

30:04

the operator to do that.

30:06

So he said, hold on just a second, let me give

30:08

you my Latin long, which is latitude and longitude.

30:11

And he goes down to the minutes and seconds.

30:14

He was actually off a little bit because that

30:16

sent the ranger close to him but not

30:18

actually there. That he knows the Latin long

30:20

of his particular location is troubling

30:23

because Tony was the one that wanted to go to

30:25

this dangerous edge. Tony was the one that wasn't

30:27

paying attention. Tony's the one that fell. So he's

30:30

blaming the whole thing on Tony and yet he's

30:32

providing the Latin long to someone

30:34

who he should not know those sorts of things. So this

30:37

was very effective for the jury. We

30:39

believe we were watching them and the dispatcher testified.

30:42

She of course, lots of bad things happened in

30:44

the mountains and she had heard hundreds of 911 calls

30:47

and she had never heard one like this. When

30:49

I was listening to this and thinking of

30:52

my other cases that I had worked, that's

30:54

all narcissistic behavior. And

30:56

he's just wanting the dispatcher to focus

30:59

on him and not his wife. He actually

31:01

says she'd only fallen 30 feet when

31:03

she had fallen closer to 150. They

31:06

still got out there very quickly but they'd

31:08

known it was 150 feet. It would have been a different

31:10

conversation. So he's controlling

31:13

everything about the conversation. And

31:15

Jerry at the very end, he goes, I have to go

31:18

after only a minute and 30 seconds because my battery

31:20

is low. After that 911 call,

31:23

he texted 98 times with friends

31:26

and made 22 phone calls. He

31:28

wanted to get off the phone quickly because he had

31:31

to control the conversation. So in

31:33

that whole scene, in digesting that

31:36

with Valeria, Sunita, Beth,

31:38

and Dana, I found that Harold had

31:40

done some things very well there,

31:42

that he had isolated his victim. Nobody

31:45

would have seen this thing happen. It was way

31:47

out in the middle of nowhere in the mountains.

31:50

Yes, Harold changed his stories but there's

31:52

only one story to tell and that it's what's Tony's

31:55

fault. He blames the victim, which

31:57

I often see even in familiar yohama.

32:00

homicides, it's the victim's fault, and

32:02

he can't describe the last scene,

32:05

which that's a really interesting one for me. I've

32:07

worked a couple of child homicides and other spousal

32:09

homicides. If you have a loved

32:11

one you kill, you don't see what happened

32:13

to them at the end. And after Kimball

32:17

and Harold and some others, I really

32:19

pushed some other family members and some

32:21

other family homicides to say, tell

32:23

me what you last saw, because Harold

32:25

blaming the soccer text is obviously

32:28

not true. He saw her go over the

32:30

edge and he had multiple reasons to see

32:32

that and to say it, but he can't.

32:35

And the reason I believe today is because it's so awful

32:38

that you're killing the mother of your

32:40

child and someone you care about

32:42

in a very dysfunctional way. I

32:44

think for Harold, it's more self-serving, but

32:47

it's so awful to kill someone that you love

32:50

and then have to describe anything about

32:52

it.

32:52

That makes sense because if

32:54

you truly want someone to believe

32:57

that your spouse has fallen,

33:00

describing it would make

33:02

it more real and as

33:05

verification for your story, but

33:07

you're right, he can't seem to say

33:10

it because he knows he's responsible.

33:13

Yeah. So let's move down to the

33:15

bottom of the cliff where Beth

33:17

walked us through what Harold did, which

33:19

is very disturbing. So Tony had

33:21

impacted a tree and she

33:24

had even broken the branch of

33:26

severed it and it was about about four

33:28

or five inches in diameter. It was a huge branch

33:31

from the tree. She was caught up in. Harold

33:34

had dragged her down by her feet

33:37

and he told her parents, one of the first things he

33:39

told her parents when they got in town, he took

33:41

her parents, they flew in from Mississippi next

33:44

morning. Harold takes them down to

33:46

the basement. They are a wonderful couple. I've

33:48

become good friends with both of them. Her dad,

33:50

Bob, passed away last year. Her

33:53

mom, Yvonne, was also a nurse

33:56

and was spectacular in her testimony.

33:59

She looks to be a nurse. just like Tony. Tony looks

34:01

like her. So it was almost like Tony getting up

34:03

on the stand and testifying. But Bob

34:05

and Yvonne fly in from Mississippi. Harold

34:08

takes them down to his basement.

34:10

And he explains what I told you before

34:12

that

34:13

they had taken this hike that Tony

34:15

wanted to go down to this place that she

34:18

had seen some turkeys on the mountain, which that's

34:20

a whole nother rabbit trail. We don't think turkeys

34:22

go that high up mountains, but that wasn't something that

34:24

they could prove in court. But then once

34:26

they get down to this ledge that Tony

34:29

was trying to get a picture of him. And

34:32

he looks at the soccer text and her

34:34

knees give way and she backs up and

34:36

falls over. So he adds the

34:38

knee issue because he knows that they

34:40

know that she had three knee surgeries. The

34:43

next thing that he says, which was so disturbing,

34:45

is that he says, I got her out of the tree

34:48

and I pull her by her feet

34:51

and pants out of the tree. And as

34:53

I'm taking her down, her head is banging

34:55

on rocks until I get her

34:57

to this place where I'm

35:00

able to lay her down. What?

35:02

He told that to her parents?

35:05

Absolutely. And everything else, Jerry,

35:07

was Tony's fault. Tony wanted to go

35:09

down to the edge. Tony was near the edge. Tony

35:12

wasn't paying attention. Tony's knee gave way. The only

35:14

thing that he took, if you would say,

35:16

a responsibility for is dragging

35:19

her in her head, hitting the rocks and they were appalled.

35:22

And the reason is

35:24

at the crime scene, you have

35:26

from that tree down to where Tony was

35:29

laid hair and blood

35:31

as her head was hitting the rocks going

35:34

down. So we couldn't figure that

35:36

out for a long time, but we think we figured

35:38

out. And what was his reason for not

35:41

just picking up his wife and carrying

35:43

her lovingly to a better

35:46

spot or just leaving her

35:48

at the base of the tree? That's a great

35:50

question. And even for us, a bigger

35:52

one is why is he blaming himself? Why

35:54

has he taken any responsibility for

35:57

doing something awful to Tony, right?

35:59

When everything is her fault. But we

36:01

think he's covering up something

36:03

that happened at the top of the cliff.

36:05

We, being Beth and her team, never

36:08

recovered the binoculars that Tony was

36:10

last looking out of. So

36:12

Beth, I think she even thought this before

36:15

I did, but we all came to somewhat of an agreement.

36:17

There's a reason why. And it is

36:20

that Tony was smart enough not

36:22

to stand up on the edge of that cliff. And

36:24

we believe Harold had to knock

36:27

her over the back of the head with those binoculars

36:30

and push her over. Now, if she's

36:32

got most of the trauma to

36:34

Tony, which by the way she was killed

36:36

in about four different ways, but the coroner

36:38

believes she was alive for about an hour

36:41

once she impacted that tree. So

36:43

she was killed by a huge laceration

36:46

on her head that she bled out of,

36:48

it was about six inches by six inches.

36:50

Her spine was broken,

36:52

her liver was punctured, and

36:54

her neck was broken. The coroner

36:57

said she would have eventually died from five

36:59

different ways. But the most egregious

37:01

one was her head being opened

37:04

up from a tremendous wound. So

37:07

as she's in that tree, that's the trauma

37:09

to her, but most of it's to the front of her

37:11

because she went over the cliff on her front.

37:14

So now, if she's got a blow

37:16

to the back of the head with binoculars, why would

37:19

he drag her and even take that responsibility

37:21

that her head is bouncing on rocks?

37:24

Oh, I get it. To generate

37:27

a reason for her to have this

37:29

injury in the back of her head.

37:31

Yeah, even leave evidence that

37:34

that's where the back of the head injury

37:36

happened was on that rock, not from

37:38

the top of the cliff. Interesting,

37:40

huh? But when he lays her down, it's

37:43

in a bunch of pine needles and her

37:45

head was about, I believe,

37:47

six inches lower than her feet.

37:50

What's the problem with that? With a very

37:53

egregious head wound.

37:55

That's the bleeding out. You should be elevating

37:57

a wound.

37:58

Huh? Instead. By the time the coroner

38:01

tried to draw blood from her the next day, he

38:03

couldn't even find it basically. He said

38:05

there was about a coke can's worth of blood in her

38:07

body, that she had blood out into

38:09

that pine needle and dirt

38:12

below her. So if

38:14

you take what I've told you, she's gone

38:17

over the edge, she's hit the tree, he's

38:19

dragged her by her feet, he's laid her

38:21

head low and he waits probably 45

38:24

to 50 minutes before he

38:26

calls 911 by the time he's down there.

38:29

That explains the reason why, doesn't it? She's

38:31

blood out in there and the coroner

38:33

estimated that it took her about an hour to die.

38:36

So what Harold does though, during he has multiple 911

38:39

calls, they keep calling him back is

38:42

he says he's giving her CPR, he's

38:44

taking her pulse and respirations

38:47

and he's calling her brother Barry Bertolai,

38:50

who's a doctor who had saved Harold's life

38:52

a couple years ago. They all live in Mississippi,

38:55

but he's calling Barry and talking

38:57

with Barry and 911 about her

39:00

pulse getting just lower and

39:02

lower and her respirations getting lower

39:05

until she's gone. And

39:07

he keeps on pretending to do CPR.

39:10

I say pretending because we got that on the 911 call

39:12

when they try to walk him through 30 compressions

39:15

and he doesn't change his

39:18

breathing, doesn't change. You can't hear anything

39:21

happening. He waits five seconds and says, you

39:24

could just hear a silence there from the 911

39:27

saying, okay, let's

39:29

move on because she could tell he did nothing.

39:32

So what happened after that is

39:35

Ranger Faraday gets up there in almost

39:37

superhuman speed. He's running up with

39:39

a 50 pound pack to get up there. He

39:41

sees Harold. He sees Tony lying

39:44

there. As soon as Harold sees

39:46

the Ranger, he runs over. The first

39:48

time he pretends like he's doing CPR,

39:51

that he actually tried it, the Ranger tells him to stop.

39:53

He then sees Tony is dead and

39:56

declares her dead at 8 to 12 PM.

40:00

So this is how long it took him to get there. He

40:02

then tells Harold and other Rangers coming to watch

40:04

over Tony and that they will walk down the mountain.

40:08

As they're walking down, that's when all those

40:10

texts go out from Harold to his

40:12

church friend. So Harold lives in Highlands

40:14

Ranch, like I told you, is a suburb of Colorado.

40:17

I live there too. And he's a

40:19

member of a big local church.

40:22

And he's texting a lot of his church friends

40:24

saying, please pray for Tony, she's injured.

40:27

And then they will come back and say, what happened? And he'll

40:29

say, head injury. And then he'll say, crit

40:31

for critical. And then he'll say,

40:34

please pray. And then they

40:36

send something back and then he'll say, my bride

40:38

is gone. And that started

40:40

before the Ranger got there. But Jerry,

40:43

it's a psychological study. It's super interesting.

40:45

As the Rangers walking him down, and

40:47

he's already declared Tony dead, he texts,

40:50

we believe it was going to be a girlfriend of his

40:52

in Austin, Texas, starts with the same

40:55

thing at nine o'clock. So Tony's been

40:57

declared dead for over 45 minutes. They're

41:00

walking down the hill and he texts this woman

41:02

named Grace and says, urgent, Tony is

41:04

injured. She goes, what happened? Head injury.

41:07

Where are you? You know, what happened? Critical.

41:10

Please pray. And then finally, my bride

41:12

is gone. Then he does that to

41:14

his brother. Then he does it to three

41:17

more church friends. And it's the same canned

41:20

iteration. This is hours

41:22

after she's been declared dead. He's asking

41:24

for prayer. He's saying she's injured.

41:27

And then as we said, when we're looking at this,

41:29

and even in some testimony, he's killing her really

41:31

over and over again, walking his friends

41:34

through it as he's going down the mountain.

41:36

He gets to the bottom of the mountain at about 10 o'clock. And

41:39

he's got two friends there, one to former

41:41

cop, and another one is a pastor

41:44

that they both know Harold through church. And

41:46

the Ranger, Faraday, asks Harold,

41:49

is there anything of value up there? We're going to be there

41:51

all night. I need to know, you

41:53

know, because we'll make sure we don't lose anything. And

41:55

Harold says no. His buddy, the pastor,

41:58

though, says, Harold, I don't know. told Tony

42:00

to wear her ring today because it's her anniversary.

42:03

I knew you guys were going to the Stanley. She

42:05

never wears it because she's a surgeon." So

42:07

that ring with that monster diamond is going to

42:09

be on there. It's like a $15,000 to $20,000 diamond. Harold doesn't say

42:14

a word and Ranger Ferret says, okay,

42:16

we'll look for the diamond. Jerry, that diamond

42:19

was either in Harold's backpack or in his pocket

42:21

at that point. But he couldn't say

42:23

anything. And it's because

42:25

he's not a Scott Kimball serial killer.

42:28

I mean, yes, he's killed two wives, but

42:30

that's not what he does for a living. I

42:33

talked a lot to forensics classes about

42:35

this case because there's a lot to learn. And

42:38

what I believe is a takeaway here is Harold

42:41

can't separate the murder scene from

42:44

his alibi scene. So his alibi

42:47

is that he's trying to care for her there,

42:49

trying to give her CPR, trying

42:52

to make these 911 calls when in actuality,

42:55

he's waiting for her to bleed out. He's

42:57

seeing his wife die. And as he's seeing

42:59

her die, he's basically killing her. That's

43:01

when he takes the diamond out of

43:03

her ring. Now her ring, the

43:06

settings on it, it was a gold

43:08

setting that had like the four prongs coming

43:10

up from the ring itself had twisted

43:13

because of the impact on the rocks. That's how

43:16

hard she was hitting them. We had a gemologist

43:18

testify that the diamond was either likely

43:20

loose or sitting askew on those

43:23

prongs. Harold had every right

43:25

to take the diamond because it's nighttime,

43:27

it's the sight of a mountain. He should have taken

43:30

it. But in that one second

43:32

when his pastor friend is talking

43:34

to the ranger, Harold is equating

43:36

taking the diamond with killing his wife and

43:39

he's silent. So this became a huge

43:42

conversation with Harold and his neighbors

43:44

because after this homicide,

43:46

and if you remember when I interacted with

43:48

our evidence response team back

43:51

in 2013, they said they were looking for a diamond

43:53

in the house and they said it was super interesting because

43:56

Harold had been telling his neighbor friends

43:58

the reason the FBI was investigating him is

44:00

because they think he stole the diamond and he

44:02

would never do that and he kept telling his friends

44:05

to go back with him to the scene and

44:07

that he thinks the diamond is there at the scene.

44:10

And his friends are going, no, we're not going

44:12

back up there to where your wife died. And

44:14

he's like, well, somebody needs to go with me because

44:16

I think it's there and I think if they find the diamond,

44:18

they'll stop investigating me. He's looking

44:20

for someone to go with him so that

44:23

they can find it and now he has

44:25

verification. Yeah, I get

44:27

it. So

44:29

our evidence response team actually did a 3D

44:32

model of the side of this mountain because they

44:34

know no jury if this goes to trial could

44:37

ever go up there. So they're mapping

44:39

it with this really cool, tremendous

44:41

computer software. They go down to

44:43

Tony's recovery spot at

44:45

the bottom of the cliff and

44:47

they see this right where she had been. They

44:50

see this smoothed out area where

44:52

someone had come in and smoothed out all the pine needles

44:55

and it's just dirt and sticking

44:57

right in the middle of it is Tony's diamond.

45:00

Oh, a miracle. The diamond

45:02

was there all along.

45:05

Except our crime scene photos show

45:07

that it wasn't there in September of 2012. So

45:11

sometime between September 2012 and May 28th of 2013 when

45:13

it was recovered, it mysteriously appeared

45:18

there. What's your thought? Does that lend

45:20

more or less credibility to Harold?

45:23

Oh, much less because you're talking

45:25

about the elements. This is a little tiny

45:28

diamond and it just happens to still

45:30

be visible with all of

45:32

the being out in the elements and

45:34

in a mountainous region. No, I immediately

45:38

would assume that somebody had sat it there.

45:41

You know the rules of evidence. Introducing

45:44

this stuff in the court is very difficult

45:46

because we don't have him on camera going there.

45:49

We have him talking about neighbors but we can't

45:51

say definitively he put it there.

45:54

And even if he did, is that just Harold's

45:56

weirdness or does it mean he killed Tony?

45:59

That was his...

45:59

Weiss diamond. So it

46:02

was his property. I mean it was his

46:04

diamond and so it's just so

46:06

strange that he took it and then went

46:08

through that whole scenario

46:11

to put it back so that the ERT

46:13

could find it. I take it and it ended

46:15

up back with Harold anyway.

46:17

He had every right to say it's his at that point.

46:20

But once the diamond was loose, we believe

46:22

Harold put it in his pocket or his backpack. He

46:25

equates the diamond with the homicide. That's

46:27

what he told his friends. He says the FBI

46:30

is investigating me because of the diamond. They

46:32

think I stole it and if it's up

46:34

there, which I think it is, then I think this case

46:37

will go away. I've seen other cases

46:39

to where the subject, the defendant,

46:42

can't separate out the murder

46:44

part from either the alibi

46:46

part or the planning part and Harold's

46:49

tongue got stuck. His mouth was

46:52

silent during that question

46:55

from his friend. Shouldn't the diamond be up there? Did

46:57

you get the diamond? Harold knew that was

46:59

a big mistake of his. He made a couple of

47:01

big mistakes. The one was the soccer text

47:03

of saying he was looking at it and he doesn't

47:05

pull it up until he's sure Tony's dead 54 minutes

47:07

later. And then the other

47:10

was the diamond of him drawing so

47:12

much attention to that when it

47:14

should have just been something very simple. Oh, here

47:16

it is. But for Harold, I

47:19

think he was afraid that pulling out that

47:21

diamond, he would have to explain, well,

47:23

when did you get that? And again, it's like looking

47:25

at your spouse when you're killing her.

47:27

He didn't want to have to talk about any of that

47:30

murder part of what

47:32

happened on that cliffside. So

47:36

I come back from the mountain. My boss

47:38

assigns me the case and I hook

47:41

up with Beth Schott and she is spectacular.

47:44

She's the Park Service agent. She's done tons

47:46

of search warrants. She's interviewed

47:48

a lot of people. A lot of people were hesitant to talk.

47:50

Jerry, because of this conservative

47:52

Christian community that Harold was a part

47:55

of, they know that his first wife died

47:57

in a suspicious accident, but he

47:59

was actually. part of their church group way back

48:01

then, a lot of them, and they just

48:03

see him as a victim of circumstance because

48:06

it's so hard to think that someone you not

48:08

only are friends with but you share faith with

48:10

could ever do something so heinous not

48:13

to one wife but two. And so they were reluctant

48:15

to talk to the FBI and Park

48:17

Service when I got the case. So

48:19

the case was reassigned to you. What happened

48:22

to Chris who was working it when

48:24

all of this first started? So

48:26

Chris worked up in our Fort Collins office

48:29

and Chris was wearing multiple hats.

48:31

That's what we would say. He was doing some

48:34

headquarters duty. He did not have

48:36

the time or ability to devote

48:38

what needed to be devoted to a case

48:40

like this. Like whether I worked Kimball

48:42

or Henthorn or some other cases, I had

48:45

to push all the others to the side and work

48:47

it completely. And Chris had been going

48:50

to and from Washington, D.C. He

48:52

had multiple other cases going and

48:54

he just didn't have the time to push

48:57

that in. Plus, I had a lot of experience,

48:59

a unique experience working cases like

49:02

this and that's why the U.S. attorneys had

49:04

called me to do it. So I kept in contact

49:07

with Chris as I was working because he was super

49:09

fascinated by it but he didn't have the bandwidth

49:12

and the latitude that I did to work

49:15

a case like this. So yeah,

49:18

best shot. The Park Service agent was kind

49:20

of in the same boat I was in. Park Service

49:22

had told her, you work this case till it's done

49:24

and the FBI told me work it

49:27

till it's done. So we both shelved

49:29

everything else and went for it. The

49:32

first thing I do when I get a case like this is really

49:34

go through the file and try to learn everything.

49:37

And I saw that a lot of key witnesses

49:39

were reluctant to speak. So

49:41

I brought Beth out with me to hit them

49:44

up a second time and not

49:46

tell them that we think their friend

49:48

and faith had brutally killed

49:51

his wives but that we're just trying to find out

49:53

what happened. And we just want to know

49:55

their story and how they knew Tony and

49:58

how they knew Harold. It was a different

50:00

take on it because I knew from working

50:03

cases like this, it's so hard to think that someone

50:05

you know or related to or friends

50:07

with could ever do something so heinous. And

50:10

we did have some success and people

50:13

not only talking about Tony's death,

50:15

but the oddness of Len's death. And

50:19

I gave them, Beth and I did, some freedom

50:21

to then finally offer

50:24

in some of their not only

50:26

factual things they saw, but then

50:28

how it had affected them. And

50:30

then we ever built some relationships with

50:33

them. The other thing that I had learned from

50:35

especially from Kimball's case is

50:37

to bring the parents in to invite them

50:39

in as almost co-investigators. And

50:42

that's where Bob and Yvonne, they knew

50:44

so much more about this marriage between Harold

50:47

and Tony than we did. And so I was

50:49

talking with Bob three, four times

50:51

a week and he sent me a

50:53

ton of information. And I got to learn Harold

50:56

very well through Bob.

50:58

While you're doing this investigation,

51:00

where is Harold? Is he

51:03

out on... Well, he hasn't been

51:05

charged at all, I guess. So he's just living his life.

51:08

He's just living his life in Highlands

51:10

Ranch. Yeah, it's funny because

51:12

I would work out at the rec

51:14

centers and we have four rec

51:17

centers in Highlands Ranch. And after this case,

51:19

went to trial and the guy

51:21

who takes our rec center cards was

51:23

solid on the news. He says, you know

51:26

what, Johnny? This is so weird

51:28

because sometimes Harold would be on the pre-core

51:30

working out when you're out there playing basketball

51:32

and your cards would be side by side. Yeah,

51:35

he's in my community while we're

51:37

working this case to build up probable cause

51:39

against him. One of the rabbit trails

51:41

that I chased, and I was doing this with

51:44

the permission of the US attorneys, was also looking

51:46

closely into Len's death. Len

51:49

was his first wife who had died in 1995 when

51:51

a Jeep fell on her in the middle of nowhere. It's

51:56

way near the mountains at night,

51:58

about 10 o'clock at night. I

52:01

talked with the Douglas County detective and

52:03

he and I started re-interviewing witnesses

52:05

on Len and those stories, Jerry, were

52:08

eerily similar of Harold

52:10

blaming Len for crawling

52:12

under a Jeep that he had jacked

52:14

up on a boat jack, which is a horrible

52:17

jack, to jack up a car because it

52:19

has a spherical top on it instead

52:21

of a clamp that can clamp to something

52:23

so extremely unstable. Bob

52:26

Weaver, who's from Douglas County, said Harold's

52:28

story was that Len crawled

52:30

underneath the Jeep while it was up on this boat

52:32

jack, middled the night, and the whole

52:35

Jeep falls on her and crushes her. She

52:37

suffocated to death. Diana,

52:39

who's our finance whiz for

52:41

the U.S. Attorney's Office, found out

52:44

that Harold profited about $500,000 from

52:46

Len's death. He

52:49

had insured Len six

52:51

months before the homicide

52:54

when Len had started getting a car. He was getting sick

52:56

at work. In interviewing the key witnesses,

52:59

Beth had known a lot of this, but there was

53:01

going back in Harold's life. 1993 is

53:05

when Harold lost his job at Colorado

53:07

Christian College. He was married to Len

53:09

at the time. They'd been married about nine years

53:12

and he was a contribution renewal

53:14

guide of where he would go out, the people who'd been contributing

53:17

to the college, he would just get them to renew their

53:19

contributions, and then he started faking

53:21

it, so where he wasn't bringing in anything.

53:24

They tried not to fire Harold, but he just

53:26

kept pretending like he was doing his

53:29

job, but he wasn't. It's pretty

53:31

hard to get fired from an easy job like that,

53:33

but he finally did. Instead of telling

53:35

Len he got fired, he went home and told

53:37

her he got a promotion. Now

53:39

he runs his own business and it's

53:42

charitable contributions. For

53:45

two years in their marriage, Harold

53:47

was bringing home $0, yet

53:49

he was pretending like he was going to work. This

53:52

is where he would start disappearing on his Thursdays.

53:57

Len was working as a social worker,

53:59

so not making a ton of money. money, but Harold was

54:01

able to manage it and they

54:03

were surviving on Harold's no

54:05

job and Len's true job until

54:07

Len started getting sick. And

54:09

she was going to have to have not

54:12

only miss work, but have very expensive

54:14

surgery. And she wasn't going to be able to have kids,

54:16

most likely either, which Harold wanted. When

54:19

Harold finds out this news six

54:21

months before Len's crushed by

54:23

the Jeep, he takes out two separate life

54:25

insurance policies on her. And

54:28

then six months later, he takes her for

54:30

a ride in the mountains. And

54:33

as he's changing the tire, Len's

54:35

underneath the Jeep, the Jeep falls on her.

54:38

I would love

54:39

to hear

54:41

his explanation as to why she would

54:43

do something like that.

54:45

So Harold told detectives, well,

54:48

first of all, it was patrol that got there. And

54:51

patrol had come after

54:53

EMS had care flighted her

54:55

out. And before EMS, multiple

54:58

people had tried to stop to give Harold help

55:00

on the side of the road. One was even an

55:02

auto mechanic. We had him testify and

55:05

he had shined a light on them. And Harold said, no,

55:07

no, no, I got this by that. Len was not under

55:09

the car when the auto mechanic came, but she

55:11

was when the Montoya

55:13

family came and they came again at about 10 o'clock

55:16

at night. They're driving in from the mountains. Patricia

55:18

Montoya, her husband and her brother and

55:21

Harold actually waves them down middle the road

55:23

with his hands, says, my wife's

55:25

under the car. He points there and

55:28

they see a woman underneath

55:30

the car and the whole weight of the car. It's

55:32

on the passenger side tire, except

55:35

the tires taken off. So it's what you call

55:37

the real shiny silver brake disc

55:39

assembly. You know, that real sharp thing that's there

55:42

when you take your tire off. That disc

55:44

is on Len's back. So the whole front

55:47

part of the Jeep is on her middle of her

55:49

back. And they look at Harold

55:51

and say, why is she still under there?

55:53

Because they wouldn't understand why he would go out to

55:56

get help when he couldn't just jack the car back

55:58

up and pull her out. says I

56:00

told her not to go under there, but she

56:02

did. She went to go try to get a lug nut.

56:05

So Harold had taken off the tire

56:07

and there were lug nuts around

56:10

this Len and the front part of the car.

56:13

So he said that he had taken the tire out back

56:16

or around to the back, thrown it in the back

56:18

of the Jeep. And when he threw it in the back of the Jeep,

56:20

that's when the whole thing fell on Len.

56:22

If you break that down again, Jerry, whose

56:24

fault is it?

56:25

Len, why did she do that when

56:28

he told her not to do it?

56:29

Mm-hmm, exactly. That's why it

56:31

was very similar. So the Montoya's,

56:34

as they're really puzzled by this husband who

56:36

didn't get his wife out from under and asking for help,

56:39

the husband and brother jack up the car and

56:42

Patricia's talking to him, trying to

56:44

interact with him. They pull Len out

56:46

from under it and then they turn her over.

56:48

They ask Harold for his coat

56:50

because they said, we're going to give her CPR.

56:52

Can we use your coat for her head to give

56:55

her something to prop her head up on? And

56:57

he takes a step back and says, no, this is

56:59

a new coat. Oh. Yeah.

57:02

So they look at him like, okay, this is getting weirder.

57:05

They gather some trash up and put

57:07

it under her head and start giving her CPR.

57:10

He then tells them, don't touch her. And

57:12

that's when they let him have it. They say, look, dude,

57:15

you told us to come help. You waved us down.

57:17

We are helping her. And Patricia's just

57:19

observing this as she's watching her

57:21

husband and brother try to revive

57:24

Len. So she is gone. Patricia

57:26

goes, calls 911, comes back. They

57:29

can hear the sirens coming. Len

57:31

starts breathing and she

57:34

looks at Harold. She said the blood drained

57:36

from Harold's face and he takes a step back.

57:39

So instead of being excited that

57:41

his wife is breathing and thanking them, he's

57:43

scared. And the medical

57:46

comes, they put her into a helicopter.

57:48

They fly her out, but she dies from asphyxiation,

57:51

from suffocation. Had he even

57:53

called 911 before he stopped

57:55

the Montoya's? No. Nobody

57:57

had a cell phone. This was 95.

57:59

back then. So

58:00

Patricia had to go knock

58:03

on doors until she found one. Yeah.

58:05

So Patricia, this is an interesting

58:08

aside. I interviewed her multiple

58:10

times and she was a fantastic witness for us

58:12

on the stand. She's very plain

58:14

spoken but very observant. And

58:18

she said that she called Douglas County

58:21

and said, I think this husband killed his wife,

58:24

but she couldn't give anything besides

58:26

he was acting really strangely. Harold

58:28

was very good crying at manipulating

58:31

deputies who showed up at saying, you know,

58:33

blaming Lynn, etc. And

58:36

there was, it was just so odd to everyone.

58:38

And there was no, they did a toxicology. There's

58:41

no drugs in her system. He didn't drug her.

58:43

So they're like, must have been free will. People

58:46

do stupid things. So they

58:48

looked at it for a while, but then ruled it accidental

58:51

after a couple days. Patricia though couldn't

58:53

let it go. So that's why she made the phone call.

58:55

She also told me that she had a dream. And

58:58

in the dream, she was at the funeral, the

59:00

memorial, in a church, and

59:02

she could see Harold over there crying. She

59:04

thought it was fake crying. But she said one woman

59:06

would come up, hug him and he would

59:08

be real excited to hug the woman, but then he would

59:10

pretend to cry again. And then the next woman

59:13

would come up and she said this line of women was

59:15

just almost endless. I was

59:17

like, well, that was an interesting dream. And of course, that's not

59:19

in the police reports. But then Patricia

59:21

said she went to the memorial, and it

59:23

was almost just like that. It

59:27

was such an odd memorial that it was

59:29

all about Harold. The pictures that were up

59:31

were more about Harold than Len. It

59:33

was about his grief. And all

59:35

these women were hugging him from the church.

59:38

And she said it was so weird she had to leave in

59:40

the middle of it.

59:41

So I was learning about Len and

59:43

Tony, but we didn't know, Jerry, we could

59:45

get Len's death in because it was already

59:48

ruled an accident. So why

59:50

did you bother investigating Len's

59:52

death?

59:53

Well, the two prosecutors, Valerian, Sanita

59:55

said it could possibly come in as what's

59:57

called 404B evidence. relevant

1:00:00

prior bad acts. So they were

1:00:03

looking into it, but part of it is I just

1:00:05

can't help myself on stuff like that

1:00:07

because I was so curious that they both die

1:00:09

in the same way. And I also didn't know if learning

1:00:11

something about Lynn's death could help me with Tony's

1:00:14

death because I had some witnesses

1:00:16

that were there for both. So I would say

1:00:18

if it's a pie chart, 80% of my investigation

1:00:21

is all into Tony, but some of it would bleed

1:00:23

over into Lynn and when it would, I would do

1:00:25

an interview or two there. After

1:00:27

Lynn dies, Harold collects the money

1:00:30

and then he takes a five-year,

1:00:32

I would call it hunting period

1:00:34

until he can find a very successful

1:00:37

Christian wealthy wife that

1:00:39

he can control. And he did this through

1:00:42

online Christian dating. It was just getting started

1:00:44

there in the late 90s. And he

1:00:46

represented himself as someone who

1:00:49

was very successful in the church. He

1:00:51

had lots of money, which he did. He had $450,000 from Lynn's

1:00:53

death and

1:00:56

that he was just looking for a very godly wife.

1:00:59

Tony had just come out of a very rough relationship.

1:01:02

Her parents were hoping that some Christian man

1:01:04

would come in and sweep her off her feet there. She's

1:01:06

in Mississippi working two different

1:01:09

medical offices, just busting

1:01:12

her butt, trying to serve people and whatever.

1:01:14

She really has a servant's heart and cares about

1:01:16

people a ton. But once Harold

1:01:18

came in, he not only swept Tony

1:01:21

off her feet, he swept her parents off their

1:01:23

feet because of how he represented himself

1:01:25

as this knight in shining armor. Some

1:01:28

warning signs that they all ignored, which

1:01:30

we do when something looks very spectacular

1:01:32

upfront. Harold said he's built Tony

1:01:35

a mansion here in Colorado. He was

1:01:37

able to get the dad, Bob, to invest $100,000

1:01:39

in it prior to them even

1:01:41

getting married. He goes, we're going to take him back. I'm going

1:01:44

to, you know, you build Tony this million dollar

1:01:46

mansion. It's about a $400,000 home and the

1:01:48

only money put down on it was

1:01:51

the $100,000 that he took

1:01:53

from Tony's dad. Prior

1:01:55

to the wedding also, Tony's mom

1:01:57

Yvonne, this was about a month

1:01:59

prior to him. to the wedding, notice that $100,000 was

1:02:02

missing out of Tony's savings account.

1:02:04

Harold and Tony have been dating for a while now.

1:02:07

And when she asked Tony about it, she could see that

1:02:10

her eyes were like, I don't know what you're talking

1:02:12

about. Tony came back and told

1:02:14

mom, yeah, Harold borrowed the money,

1:02:16

but it's fine. She's like, did he not tell you?

1:02:19

And Tony just brushed it aside like it was no big

1:02:21

deal. Harold used that money to buy

1:02:23

a cabin in the mountains, which will come into

1:02:26

play in just a minute. I tried

1:02:28

to kill Tony at this cabin prior

1:02:30

to the cliff push. And then finally,

1:02:33

at the wedding itself, the groom's

1:02:35

portion is the rehearsal dinner, right?

1:02:38

So they're having the rehearsal dinner there in Mississippi.

1:02:40

Tony has two brothers, Barry

1:02:42

and Todd. Harold goes to Todd

1:02:45

when it's time to pay the check and says, hey, Todd,

1:02:47

I didn't bring my checkbook. Can you cover this for me?

1:02:49

It's no problem for me. I don't remember

1:02:52

at this point, Jerry, I think it's like three,

1:02:54

four thousand bucks for the rehearsal dinner.

1:02:56

And Todd's like, sure. Because again, Harold's a

1:02:58

multimillionaire. After the dinner, it

1:03:01

may have been that day, a day or two later,

1:03:03

Harold goes to Todd, pats him on the back

1:03:05

and says, thanks for the rehearsal dinner.

1:03:08

Wow.

1:03:09

So is he working? Does he

1:03:11

have a job? Is he bringing any money?

1:03:14

No. He is telling

1:03:16

we have some of the, Beth was

1:03:19

able through her search warrants to get some

1:03:21

of the communications between Harold

1:03:23

and Tony back then. And he's saying

1:03:25

things like, I just resigned

1:03:28

after nine and a half years, my position

1:03:30

with resource development. That's who had been faking

1:03:33

his job with Lynn. And he goes,

1:03:35

but it's because I got a promotion. And

1:03:37

they're asking me to speak and whatever

1:03:39

else. I'm looking forward to this, making

1:03:42

even more money. And he says,

1:03:44

I'm getting lots of money. It's an

1:03:46

unbelievable amount. I'm staying at the Hilton

1:03:49

airport out here in California. He's

1:03:52

representing to them that he's uber successful.

1:03:55

But then he also has Jerry, which

1:03:57

this hurting in our case as well. He keeps

1:03:59

notes to himself and he would write

1:04:01

his own little diary and like on January

1:04:05

5th of 2000, this is before

1:04:07

they get married, he goes, Tony's

1:04:09

friends are liking me

1:04:11

more. Tony told her mom

1:04:13

she might be willing to move to Denver. Wedding

1:04:16

location though will be in Jackson. It's

1:04:18

okay now to tell her dad about

1:04:20

my net worth. You know, it's like he's

1:04:22

writing these notes to himself and then

1:04:24

he finally writes the two weeks later,

1:04:27

neither Tony or I have any interest

1:04:29

in a prenup. So what we

1:04:31

found out in that five-year hunting period,

1:04:34

I would call it hunting, is because we had only

1:04:36

one of these women come and testify,

1:04:38

but he would target these Christian women through

1:04:41

the dating site and then he would ask them

1:04:43

on the first or second date if they own

1:04:45

their own home, how much equity they have,

1:04:48

something else about their job and net

1:04:51

worth and then one of them, her name's

1:04:53

Virginia, didn't answer the right way on

1:04:55

her net worth and he never called her again. So

1:04:57

that's why I call it a hunting period. Once

1:05:00

he found Tony and Tony was so

1:05:02

passionate about her job that she

1:05:04

was fine with Harold coming in and controlling

1:05:07

the finances, even the relationship

1:05:09

because she wanted to marry a Christian

1:05:11

husband who was successful and

1:05:14

she didn't have to worry about taking

1:05:16

care of all the other stuff which was perfect

1:05:18

for Harold because now he could fake his

1:05:21

job and she would never know. They

1:05:25

moved to Colorado. Tony is making

1:05:28

good money I'd say close to $200,000

1:05:30

being a doctor there in Cherry Creek

1:05:32

plus her parents have oil money

1:05:35

that comes in, I think it was about $100,000

1:05:37

to $200,000 per year. So Tony's side of

1:05:41

the family is bringing in enough money to where Harold

1:05:44

was representing he made $100,000 but

1:05:47

nobody ever knew he didn't because enough money

1:05:49

was coming. What a conniving

1:05:52

man. Yep and I've

1:05:54

seen that in it's

1:05:57

different types of faith sometimes where

1:05:59

one spells will control another one

1:06:01

by saying, you must conform to the way

1:06:03

we believe and it's the way really that Harold

1:06:05

believed, not even as much the faith itself.

1:06:08

And it was that Harold started exerting more

1:06:10

and more control over her to where

1:06:12

he would have her phone calls forwarded

1:06:15

to him. So when Bob and Yvonne would try

1:06:17

to call Tony, he would pick up the

1:06:19

phone because her cell phone would forward to

1:06:21

his. And he would call them

1:06:24

for money and say, we're

1:06:26

paying for private education for our daughter

1:06:28

Haley, we're not having enough money. They

1:06:30

were confused because they knew that Tony

1:06:32

was making good. They thought Harold was good,

1:06:34

but they would even send

1:06:37

more money on top of that. And Harold was

1:06:39

just squirreling all this stuff away. He

1:06:41

controlled what colors Tony wore. She

1:06:44

used to like lavender and she

1:06:46

never got to wear it again after they were married and

1:06:48

her close friends were just appalled. But

1:06:51

again, what Harold did was take

1:06:54

her out of that Mississippi situation,

1:06:56

which is close to family and friends, bring her here

1:06:58

to Colorado. She's working all the

1:07:00

time. She becomes friends with people at work and

1:07:02

they see this controlling behavior as

1:07:05

troublesome, but they're not her close friends.

1:07:08

So they don't really intervene. Even

1:07:11

the Wi-Fi Jerry and they didn't

1:07:13

find this out till after Tony was

1:07:15

dead. They had a relative

1:07:17

living there at the house, his name's Daniel, and he

1:07:19

would come in and out help babysit some,

1:07:21

which the babysitter is a whole different deal because

1:07:24

when Harold would go out of quote, work

1:07:26

jobs on Thursdays and disappear, they

1:07:28

would have to hire a babysitter and the babysitter

1:07:31

would watch Haley as she was growing up

1:07:33

because Tony's working all the time. Harold

1:07:35

supposedly got this really important job where he leaves

1:07:37

on Thursdays. And at times

1:07:39

this nephew, Daniel would come and stay. And

1:07:42

Daniel though, told us that he couldn't get Wi-Fi

1:07:44

at the house because Harold said he didn't

1:07:46

believe in Wi-Fi until

1:07:49

Tony died. Harold said within

1:07:51

a week after Tony died, they had Wi-Fi

1:07:53

at the house. So we're talking

1:07:56

more and more control that he was exercising

1:07:59

over Tony. What killed Toni

1:08:01

was she was finally getting her footing against

1:08:03

Harold. In 2011, so 11

1:08:07

years into their marriage, she gets an

1:08:09

offer to be a partner at Cherry Creek Eye

1:08:11

Surgeons. Harold started arguing

1:08:14

with her openly that she is not

1:08:16

going to be a partner. He's

1:08:18

telling her, equipment's going to cost too much.

1:08:20

It's not worth our time and money. In front

1:08:22

of their good friends, Toni pushes

1:08:24

back and she goes, no, this is what I've always wanted.

1:08:27

She knows it's about money for Harold. So she goes,

1:08:29

Harold, it's going to bring in even more money. And

1:08:31

he goes, you're not doing it. And she goes, yes,

1:08:34

I am. So that's the first time

1:08:36

she stood up to him. Again, this is April 2011. So

1:08:39

just over a year before he kills her in

1:08:41

May, after she stood up to him multiple

1:08:44

times, he changes

1:08:46

life insurance policies, right? But

1:08:48

by the time they're arguing, he has $6 million

1:08:51

of life insurance on her, but he

1:08:53

checks it in April and finds that

1:08:55

one company has bought another one. So

1:08:58

she's doubly insured under one of

1:09:00

the companies. Otherwise, it was four separate

1:09:02

insurance. So nobody would know

1:09:04

the others would pay out because you're not supposed to

1:09:06

have multiple insurance life insurance

1:09:08

policies on the same person. So he

1:09:11

does a check, finds out that one company

1:09:13

has bought another one. And so now she's doubly

1:09:15

insured for $3 million and

1:09:17

he cancels the double insurance policy.

1:09:20

So now it's $4.5 million.

1:09:22

Then he tells Toni, let's go to the cabin

1:09:25

and they go to the cabin, which is the one he bought

1:09:27

with her money. It backs up to a lake that's

1:09:30

near Lake Granby up here in Colorado.

1:09:32

It's about a two hour drive from Denver back

1:09:34

in the mountains. And when they

1:09:36

get there, he tells Toni

1:09:39

that there's a light broken down at

1:09:41

the bottom of their deck. The first floor has

1:09:43

a walkout deck and then there's stairs going

1:09:45

down near the lake. And

1:09:47

you have to go down those stairs and it's super

1:09:49

dark down there. But there's some spotlights

1:09:52

that could shine and Harold

1:09:54

says one of them is broken and I need you to go

1:09:57

fix it, Toni. 10 o'clock at night. They've just

1:09:59

got there. They've got their daughter, Hayley, inside.

1:10:02

I'm Mary Gerry and I know that if I would

1:10:04

even say something close like that to my wife,

1:10:06

that I need something fixed at 10 o'clock at night

1:10:08

in a very dark place under the deck. The

1:10:11

nicest thing she would say to me is, you

1:10:13

can fix it yourself. But Tony goes

1:10:15

down and she starts picking up

1:10:17

the shards. The next thing she knows

1:10:20

is she's sitting there with a

1:10:22

fractured vertebra and a board

1:10:24

has hit her in the back of the head. It's

1:10:26

basically the top of your neck, base

1:10:29

of your head. And EMTs

1:10:32

are on the scene and she doesn't even know

1:10:34

what happened. And Harold's explaining to the

1:10:36

EMTs that she was down there

1:10:38

picking up glass

1:10:40

and a board.

1:10:41

Oh, the first story,

1:10:43

I got to get his stories correct because he told three different

1:10:46

ones. He told them that he was working

1:10:48

on the roof and that he was

1:10:50

flinging a board off the roof and

1:10:52

that it happened to hit Tony in the back of the head.

1:10:55

At 10 o'clock at night.

1:10:57

People that know Harold knows he's not handy

1:10:59

at all, first of all, and that he would be on

1:11:01

a ladder working on the roof at 10

1:11:03

is ridiculous. But this isn't

1:11:06

law enforcement. These are EMTs and their

1:11:08

job is not to vet his story. Their job is to make

1:11:10

sure Len's okay. He tells

1:11:12

his friends back home that he was flinging

1:11:15

plywood off the deck and I went and took

1:11:17

pictures of the plywood. The plywood there

1:11:19

even years later is four foot

1:11:22

by eight foot by three quarters.

1:11:24

So these are big pieces of plywood and you wouldn't

1:11:27

fling any of them off any deck. And

1:11:29

finally, he just tells them a board fell on her and

1:11:31

he wasn't even around. So

1:11:34

three different stories, but cops were never

1:11:36

involved in this. This though prompts

1:11:38

her parents to start looking

1:11:41

into their relationship. She

1:11:43

has a 72 minute phone call with them. And

1:11:47

Bob and Yvonne say, we're

1:11:49

not comfortable with you being even alone with

1:11:51

your husband anymore. This was an attempt

1:11:54

on your life and he's

1:11:56

not getting any more of the family oil money. So

1:11:58

you take his name off. that. Tony

1:12:01

agrees. It's not with the can't be

1:12:03

alone with him but she goes to First Bank, takes

1:12:06

Harold's name off their joint account.

1:12:08

That's a humongous problem for her because

1:12:11

who has a stranglehold on the money? Harold.

1:12:13

She doesn't even tend to the money so

1:12:16

she doesn't even know what their bank account balance is

1:12:18

but she takes Harold off. That happened

1:12:20

on July 13th of 2012. So she dies three months

1:12:24

later.

1:12:25

Does Harold find out? Does he know

1:12:27

that she's taken his name off?

1:12:29

Yeah. Again, he checks the

1:12:31

bank accounts daily. He's the one doing all

1:12:34

these insurance policies manipulations. He's

1:12:36

the one taking the Bertolle money in

1:12:38

and squirreling it away in different accounts.

1:12:41

So he would have known if not that day,

1:12:43

a day or two afterwards. That's

1:12:45

what he does is manage their money. So

1:12:47

she's cutting him off but she doesn't know at that

1:12:50

point that he's faking his job. And

1:12:52

so she doesn't know that by taking

1:12:55

his name off the account, she's basically ripping

1:12:57

his mask off.

1:12:58

A mask that he's worn for 20 years that

1:13:00

he's a successful businessman because

1:13:02

he's going to be found out now. Oh,

1:13:05

so she is so out

1:13:07

of the finances that

1:13:09

she doesn't realize he's not bringing

1:13:12

any money in to the home. You're

1:13:14

correct. Wow. What

1:13:19

was the time frame between the

1:13:21

incident at the cabin and the

1:13:23

push off the mountain?

1:13:26

So we call it the beam incident.

1:13:28

The beam incident at the cabin happened

1:13:30

in May 2011 and the push off the cliff was September 2012. So

1:13:33

a little

1:13:37

over a year in between. The parents

1:13:40

believed that he was trying to kill her during

1:13:42

the beam incident at the cabin. What

1:13:45

did they say Tony believed

1:13:47

happened because she stayed with him?

1:13:50

She stayed with him for over a year and

1:13:52

I believe that it had to do with

1:13:55

what she believed was her role in

1:13:57

the Christian faith is that the husband

1:13:59

is...

1:13:59

the leader, listen to your leader, follow

1:14:02

your leader, etc. And that

1:14:04

goes to Jerry, the three things

1:14:06

that happened with Lynn and Tony.

1:14:09

Tony told her parents one time, they

1:14:11

stood up, they said, listen, we're going to tell

1:14:14

Harold that this is ridiculous

1:14:16

and that you are not going to be

1:14:18

put in that situation again. They

1:14:21

tried to get her to stand up against him, but she wouldn't.

1:14:24

And she said, look, if you call him

1:14:26

out on anything, I will be the one to

1:14:28

pay the price. And she says, it's just

1:14:30

easier to do what he says than to argue with

1:14:32

him. And wondering why she would go

1:14:34

down to the deck at 10 o'clock at night

1:14:37

and wondering why she would take this

1:14:39

really difficult trail down over

1:14:42

multiple rocks as her knee had to be really

1:14:44

hurting. And she's wondering how is this

1:14:46

even close to an anniversary? It's

1:14:49

that it's she's like, it'll be easier

1:14:51

to do what he says than to argue

1:14:53

with him because that would create a whole different environment.

1:14:56

I believe at this point in Tony's life, Jerry,

1:14:58

that she was just solely focused

1:15:01

on being the best mom for Haley that she

1:15:03

could be. And that she's married

1:15:05

to Harold as part of her duty and

1:15:07

responsibility and whatever else. But

1:15:10

she wanted to be a great mom for Haley and a great

1:15:13

doctor. And so she's just putting

1:15:15

up with Harold in the only way she knew how to.

1:15:18

So all of this was known

1:15:21

to the case agents or, you

1:15:23

know, Beth and the US attorneys.

1:15:26

But I got up to speed on that. I'd helped bring

1:15:28

in some more witnesses, but we didn't

1:15:30

have planning or premeditation. I

1:15:33

mean, we had the insurance policies, but the

1:15:35

US attorneys didn't think it was quite enough to go

1:15:37

to trial on because it's so circumstantial.

1:15:40

And I looked back through our case

1:15:42

file. I've been studying it a lot and

1:15:45

I found in one of the

1:15:47

1A's

1:15:48

probable cause. You remember what a 1A

1:15:51

is from your time or no? Oh,

1:15:53

absolutely. The little white envelope

1:15:56

that you attach to the back of the file and

1:15:58

collect non-bolts

1:15:59

evidence. Correct.

1:16:02

Yeah. So it's not in our evidence but it's

1:16:04

not in the computerized file either. And

1:16:06

what was in one of our 1A's, so for us

1:16:09

I'd call it an in-between thing,

1:16:11

was Harold's cell phone records and

1:16:13

the plotted GPS of each of

1:16:16

them. And it was a monster, a bunch of paper,

1:16:18

but it wasn't even a CD. They had just

1:16:20

printed out a bunch of data with GPS

1:16:23

locations. And

1:16:25

it had never been looked at. It had just slipped through

1:16:27

the cracks. So I pull

1:16:30

those out and start plotting and

1:16:32

I'm able to go... It had it all the way back

1:16:34

to January 1st of 2012. The

1:16:37

first thing I start looking for is Thursdays,

1:16:39

right? Because that's when he disappears. And

1:16:41

I find, Jerry, that on Thursdays,

1:16:44

nine times out of ten, he leaves

1:16:47

his house in Highlands Ranch. He drives about

1:16:49

eight miles northwest and

1:16:52

he's in a shopping center for

1:16:55

four hours from like 5 p.m. to 9

1:16:57

p.m. And then his cell phone just

1:17:01

disappears, kind of. I don't see any activity

1:17:04

until he's back at home, maybe Saturday morning

1:17:07

or Friday night. So I

1:17:09

tell Beth what I found is like 90% of the time,

1:17:11

he's in this shopping center from

1:17:13

five to nine when he's got Haley being

1:17:15

babysat. He's saying he's building

1:17:17

churches making money but he's in a shopping center.

1:17:20

And so we go there, start knocking on doors.

1:17:23

I bring his picture with me and I end up

1:17:25

talking to a manager of Panera Bread

1:17:27

and she's like, yeah, I know that guy. I don't know his

1:17:29

name but he comes in almost every Thursday. She

1:17:31

says, nobody else will deal with him. Her name is Christine.

1:17:34

She says, only he'll only come to me.

1:17:36

Here's his routine. He comes in, he waits

1:17:39

for Christine to wait on him. She says, okay,

1:17:41

hi. How are you doing? I'm good. Are you

1:17:43

feeling slim or not so slim today?

1:17:46

I'm feeling slim. Oh, good. Then you want the

1:17:48

turkey cheddar sandwich and you want the

1:17:50

coke and chips, right? Yes. Good.

1:17:52

And then if he's feeling not slim,

1:17:54

then he, she orders the salad for him and

1:17:57

the diet coke but nobody else knows

1:17:59

that. little routine. And so he

1:18:01

will even be rude to the other people behind the counter

1:18:04

until Christine comes and waits on him because

1:18:06

he wants her to tell him what he wants. And

1:18:08

then he would get that entree, go to the very

1:18:10

back, and she says

1:18:13

he was pretending to work for four

1:18:15

hours, but she could see him looking at the

1:18:17

internet and surfing around and just

1:18:19

pretending like he's working when he's not.

1:18:21

So that was just super odd. Christine

1:18:24

and I are testifying because, again, that's

1:18:26

what he's representing is that he's this church builder,

1:18:29

big money maker. However, following

1:18:31

that July when he's taking off

1:18:33

the First Bank account, I

1:18:36

see those Thursdays change. His phone

1:18:38

starts heading north to Estes

1:18:40

Park, Colorado. And that happens one

1:18:43

month before the homicide, actually five weeks

1:18:45

before the homicide. And he will go all

1:18:47

the way up to the cell tower where

1:18:50

he ends up calling 911. And

1:18:52

he does that, Jerry, nine different times.

1:18:55

So he not only starts going on Thursdays,

1:18:58

what I can see from the data is he starts getting

1:19:00

excited about it. He starts leaving on Saturdays

1:19:03

and then he's gone all day Sunday and then he's

1:19:05

gone Tuesday. What I also see

1:19:07

in the phone records is he starts calling

1:19:10

Grace. Grace is

1:19:13

Len's, his first wife's sister-in-law.

1:19:16

And I believe he's attracted

1:19:18

to Grace and Grace believes that at this

1:19:20

point too, that he was almost starts focusing

1:19:23

in on her. And during a lot of these trips up

1:19:25

north to the place where he's going to kill Tony,

1:19:27

he starts reaching out for Grace.

1:19:29

I have to ask you about Grace. Does

1:19:32

Grace have money?

1:19:33

Grace does not. Grace though, she has

1:19:35

what? Four beautiful daughters. She

1:19:38

lives in Austin. She's a very

1:19:40

lovely person. And I think

1:19:42

that it's just someone that Harold thought

1:19:45

he could hate, whether he's going to marry her,

1:19:47

whether he's going to target her and kill her. That's what, you

1:19:49

know, at this point, that's what she thinks. I don't know that

1:19:51

he was, don't know that he wasn't. He was

1:19:53

giving a lot of attention to Grace, even

1:19:56

to the point of one of the last pictures

1:19:58

that he sent to everyone was Him

1:20:00

and Tony when they arrived in Rocky Mountain National

1:20:02

Park, he sends this picture of them smiling beside

1:20:05

each other. Instead of sending that, he

1:20:07

sends a picture to Grace of him

1:20:09

and Grace in his last visit there

1:20:12

to Austin, which had only happened a couple weeks prior.

1:20:15

Something going on there, but don't know for sure,

1:20:17

but there's just a lot of calls during

1:20:19

his trips up there. Then on trip

1:20:22

number six is when I think he finds the

1:20:24

spot out of nine because

1:20:27

he starts calling after that, the

1:20:29

Cherry Creek Eye Surgeons start setting

1:20:32

up this wonderful anniversary trip

1:20:34

and he calls the Stanley Hotel as he's going

1:20:36

up on trip seven. If

1:20:39

you go all the way back to the call, how he

1:20:41

knew the latitude and longitude when

1:20:43

he's supposed to be under stress calling 911

1:20:45

is because he's rehearsed this thing nine

1:20:48

times. This nine trip thing

1:20:50

was the one tiny push past

1:20:52

the goal line that our US attorneys

1:20:54

needed to show premeditation because

1:20:57

Harold had told the Rangers he'd

1:20:59

only been up there once and it was once

1:21:01

in the past. It was about three months ago.

1:21:04

In reality, it sounds like

1:21:06

he went there at least seven times

1:21:08

before?

1:21:09

Yeah, a total of nine, including

1:21:11

the trip there that day, but yeah,

1:21:14

eight preparation trips. The

1:21:16

later ones, Jerry, he would turn off his cell

1:21:18

phone as he got close. I would just see a gap.

1:21:21

I'd seen track and north going towards

1:21:23

the park and then it would be like a five hour gap

1:21:26

where he's turning his phone off because he's hiding

1:21:28

his location knowing that we would eventually get

1:21:31

warrants. Talking about premeditated.

1:21:33

Wow. Correct. Yeah, and that's

1:21:36

the jury. I was surprised that

1:21:38

Harold accepted that. When I was testifying

1:21:41

on the stand to my research

1:21:43

into the nine trips and even the gaps there,

1:21:46

instead of shaking his head no and thinking it's preposterous

1:21:49

that that's premeditation, I remember looking at

1:21:51

Harold because he's there at the defense table and

1:21:53

he's just nodding his head up and down like I had

1:21:55

done my homework and like, okay, fine. Sure.

1:21:58

I was up there nine times and the jury. all that

1:22:00

stuff. In my opinion, he should have

1:22:02

been shaking his head no, like that's preposterous. I

1:22:04

was going up there just to sightsee. But

1:22:08

yeah. But with all the groundwork

1:22:10

that Beth and Valeria and Sunita

1:22:12

had done, the nine trips was

1:22:15

too big of a lie for him to protect.

1:22:18

The other thing that had happened prior to trial

1:22:21

is the US attorneys had

1:22:23

argued that 404B motion not

1:22:25

only to bring in lens death

1:22:28

as a prior bad act, but even

1:22:30

we called it the beam incident where Harold

1:22:33

dropped a beam on Tony's

1:22:35

head a year before the homicide. And

1:22:38

they argued that because both of those situations

1:22:41

were so similar in that the insurance

1:22:43

was manipulated and he isolated them.

1:22:45

He told lies about what happened. He staged

1:22:47

them as accidents. And even,

1:22:49

I mean, as a side, I didn't say this. He used gravity

1:22:52

each time. It's something falling, right?

1:22:54

It's either the cheap falling on Len,

1:22:57

it's something falling on Tony's head

1:22:59

and it's Tony falling. There were some big

1:23:01

arguments. Both had appellate attorneys there

1:23:03

in the courtroom because they were

1:23:05

having to weigh did the jury need to hear

1:23:07

these or are they just prejudicial and not

1:23:10

related to the trial. But after

1:23:12

long hearings, that's what made the difference.

1:23:14

Jerry and Harold being convicted in my

1:23:17

opinion was not only a great case

1:23:19

on Tony that Beth had built,

1:23:21

but these two other bad

1:23:24

acts show that Tony could not have been

1:23:26

an accident.

1:23:27

Can we go back a little bit and talk

1:23:29

about the final decision of what

1:23:31

you were going to charge him with and

1:23:35

what occurred when you went

1:23:37

to arrest him or when he learned

1:23:39

that he had been officially federally

1:23:42

charged for the murder

1:23:44

of his wife?

1:23:45

That is a very short but fascinating

1:23:48

story on what we charged him with. So on

1:23:51

November 5th of 2014, we

1:23:53

got an arrest warrant for first degree homicide

1:23:55

of Tony. We aren't charging him with Len.

1:23:57

That's a relevant evidence case. but

1:24:00

it was going to come in in the trial,

1:24:04

but it's just it's first-degree homicide. We

1:24:06

go to arrest him. He now has

1:24:09

sole control of Haley. We

1:24:12

were very concerned about Haley because

1:24:14

she was nine by now, nine years

1:24:16

old, and we wanted to make sure

1:24:18

that he dropped her off at school first.

1:24:21

So she wasn't in the house or around him. And

1:24:23

we were working with Douglas County Sheriff's Office. So

1:24:26

we had a big arrest plan, and the plan

1:24:28

was that Beth and I could be the ones

1:24:30

to first talk to him and put cuffs

1:24:32

on him because we were going to bring him down to the federal

1:24:34

courthouse and see if he would talk. But

1:24:36

the sheriffs were, they had so many resources

1:24:39

there that Beth and I, by the time he had dropped

1:24:41

Haley off before they pulled him over, we were

1:24:44

probably 10 cars back. So they

1:24:46

just they didn't want anything, you know, bad

1:24:48

to happen. So we had way too many resources

1:24:50

there. I go up to introduce myself

1:24:52

to Harold. I say,

1:24:55

Harold, we have a restaurant for you. He's

1:24:57

like, for what? I said, well, first-degree

1:24:59

homicide for Tony. He said, that's preposterous.

1:25:01

He goes, who are you? I said, well, I'm

1:25:03

the FBI agent in charge of our part of the case.

1:25:06

This is Beth Schott. She's with the Park Service. And

1:25:08

he says, oh, you're just an agent? Why didn't you just

1:25:10

make me an appointment? I would have just gone to meet the judge.

1:25:13

You don't need to do all this handcuff thing. I

1:25:15

said, Mr. Handthorn, this is first-degree

1:25:17

murder. We can't have you just make an

1:25:19

appointment with the judge. And he just turns

1:25:21

his head aside like, I don't even mean anything

1:25:24

to him. So we put

1:25:26

him back in the back of my car. We're taking

1:25:28

him downtown and we're asking him.

1:25:30

We have another agent there, Pat, who asks

1:25:32

him, he's filling out the prisoner intake form

1:25:35

and he says, well, I'll ask here your occupation.

1:25:37

And so we all just sit there quietly

1:25:39

like, what's he going to say? Because he knows we

1:25:41

know that he's been faking it for 20 years. And

1:25:45

we all just wait. And I say, Mr.

1:25:47

Handthorn, if you don't want to answer, you can just say

1:25:49

unemployed or self-employed. He goes,

1:25:51

yes, self-employed. I said, okay. Or no, I

1:25:53

think he actually said unemployed. He did. And

1:25:56

then we get to the marshal's office and there's

1:25:58

a young female. Marshall, booking

1:26:01

him in, you can tell he's wanting

1:26:03

to impress her. And she asked him,

1:26:05

what's your occupation? And he says, oh, I'm a

1:26:07

fundraiser, very successful. You know,

1:26:10

it's related to church. We're

1:26:12

all standing there, Jerry. And he had just

1:26:14

told us that he knew, we knew, but

1:26:16

he couldn't help himself in front of this new

1:26:19

person to, again, represent himself

1:26:21

as something that he wasn't. And I think

1:26:23

this goes to, again, the reason

1:26:25

for the homicide for both Len and

1:26:28

Tony is unknowingly,

1:26:30

they were tearing this mask off of Harold

1:26:33

Len because she was going to have

1:26:35

expensive surgery and miss work.

1:26:38

And so they would have $0 coming in.

1:26:40

Tony, because she had stood up to him and

1:26:43

was ripping off his mask by not having

1:26:45

him on their joint account. But it wasn't

1:26:47

just the money, it's that he had spent a

1:26:50

lifetime building this fake reputation

1:26:52

and standing in this community. He

1:26:55

was willing to kill both of them to protect that.

1:27:00

I've grown really close to Tony's family,

1:27:03

including her brother Barry, and especially

1:27:05

mom and dad, and learning

1:27:08

more and more about how and I've

1:27:10

seen it in other cases, how difficult it is

1:27:12

to lose your daughter or your sister to

1:27:14

something like this. And Harold continues

1:27:17

to write letters to his daughter, Haley,

1:27:20

and she doesn't read them. And it's

1:27:22

still Tony's fault. Even today,

1:27:25

we're almost, we're a little over 10

1:27:28

years past it, almost coming up on 11. And

1:27:31

Haley doesn't read his

1:27:33

letters. She's actually changed her last name from Henthorn

1:27:35

to her mom's maiden name. And she's in a good

1:27:37

spot right now.

1:27:39

How old is she now?

1:27:40

She's 18. And she's had

1:27:42

a very good high school career. But she

1:27:44

was so oppressed under Harold

1:27:47

for those two years that there

1:27:49

was a lot of rehabilitation that Tony's

1:27:51

whole family just took Haley under their wings.

1:27:54

And she is very bright. She's

1:27:56

a lot like her mom, very bright, her great

1:27:59

grades. social. I've kept

1:28:01

up with her because Yvonne,

1:28:03

Tony's mom, and my mom became really

1:28:05

good friends through the trial. My mom actually came

1:28:08

from Lubbock, Texas and watched the trial

1:28:10

and she sat with Yvonne. I didn't orchestrate

1:28:13

any of it, trust me. But

1:28:15

they've become close friends and Yvonne has shared

1:28:17

Haley's life growing up apart

1:28:20

from Harold and that she was able

1:28:22

to get out from underneath him and that poison

1:28:25

he was feeding her for two years that it's

1:28:27

your mom's fault. It wasn't mine

1:28:29

that she's not

1:28:29

here.

1:28:31

And those were the two years after

1:28:33

she died before he

1:28:35

was charged with her murder.

1:28:37

That's correct. But

1:28:39

I forward those emails from Yvonne

1:28:42

to our whole team, to Beth, Valeria,

1:28:45

and Sunita. And we're really grateful

1:28:48

we were able to rescue Haley from that and that the case

1:28:50

worked out like it did.

1:28:52

So how long did the trial

1:28:54

last? How many witnesses? And

1:28:57

when the verdict was read, I would

1:28:59

love to hear how

1:29:02

Harold reacted. The trial,

1:29:05

it's funny because last week,

1:29:07

they finally, Harold exhausted

1:29:10

his last appeal. He's been

1:29:12

appealing this all the way up to the Supreme Court

1:29:14

for his 2015 conviction. And

1:29:18

we had probably 50 witnesses

1:29:21

on our witness list. I would bet we

1:29:23

had about 30 to 35 actually testify.

1:29:26

They started with the park rangers

1:29:28

and they were fantastic. It was almost like having

1:29:30

a guided tour through Rocky

1:29:33

Mountain National Park. They talked

1:29:35

about what this mountain was like, what

1:29:37

this cliff was like, how nobody else goes there.

1:29:39

And then the oddities of

1:29:41

Harold when they respond, the 911 calls.

1:29:44

So the jury was able to see

1:29:47

very clearly that this was not

1:29:49

normal, what happened with Tony.

1:29:51

And then they even... We couldn't

1:29:53

take the jury there, but we were in

1:29:56

a 12-story courthouse in downtown

1:29:58

Denver. They were able to take take the jury

1:30:00

to an exact point and

1:30:03

stand up on a bench and look down out

1:30:05

of the window to see the distance

1:30:07

Tony fell when Harold was saying

1:30:09

she fell 30 feet. And it's

1:30:12

awful to look out that window

1:30:14

and see pavement below. But then

1:30:17

they, you know, like I said, Tony's mom,

1:30:20

Yvonne testified. We did

1:30:22

have quite a few friends, probably

1:30:25

seven or eight of Harold's friends,

1:30:27

some who had seen Lynn, walked

1:30:29

through Lynn's death with Harold and

1:30:32

then also Tony's. And just the

1:30:34

statements that they had made, we had

1:30:36

the coroner come and testify to the causes

1:30:39

of death to Tony and that

1:30:41

she was most likely alive for an hour.

1:30:44

And, you know, none of that, of course,

1:30:46

the jury's putting together this puzzle

1:30:48

quickly. That all came in for Tony.

1:30:51

Dana testified to the finances.

1:30:53

We had different insurance people come up and testify.

1:30:57

His friend and longtime

1:30:59

insurance confidant, his

1:31:01

name's Neil Cresswell, he's passed away now as well.

1:31:04

He was almost 90 at the time he testified,

1:31:06

but he had helped put together those four $1.5

1:31:10

million insurance policies for Tony

1:31:13

for Harold, thinking that they were

1:31:15

canceled each time and just renewing.

1:31:17

Not that Harold was stacking policies on

1:31:19

them. He thought Harold was a great guy,

1:31:22

which made him not think he was capable.

1:31:24

We did multiple interviews with Mr.

1:31:26

Cresswell, but once he saw that those policies

1:31:29

were stacking on Tony, he told

1:31:31

the jury, I remember him walking up, Harold

1:31:33

was smiling as Mr. Cresswell,

1:31:35

when he's walking up thinking, finally, one of my friends

1:31:37

are going to get up and rescue me. Mr.

1:31:40

Cresswell gets up and says, yeah,

1:31:42

I did not know he was stacking those policies. And

1:31:45

a quote that still sticks with me today, overinsured

1:31:48

people tend to die. And they

1:31:50

asked him the prosecutor asked, what do you mean by

1:31:52

that? And he goes, well, Tony was worth more

1:31:54

dead than she was alive. That

1:31:57

was really devastating for Harold to hear who

1:31:59

he thought his best friends say words like that.

1:32:02

But all of our witnesses came in

1:32:04

very well. And then it moved from that

1:32:07

to the beam incident. They had the EMTs

1:32:09

come testify. They had some of Tony's friends

1:32:11

afterwards. Of course, Yvonne had already testified

1:32:14

that she said, don't stay alone with Harold

1:32:16

and he doesn't get any of our oil money. So

1:32:19

the beam incident and Douglas County Sheriff's

1:32:21

Office, we had the deputies now

1:32:23

they're what, 20 years in. A

1:32:26

lot of them were new. And they talked about

1:32:28

knowing that Len was under the car, the crime scene

1:32:31

there, Harold telling differing

1:32:34

stories back then, which they didn't put the pieces

1:32:36

together until much later. And then Patricia

1:32:38

Montoya and her family talking about

1:32:41

how awful it was that Harold was reacting

1:32:44

to his wife being under a Jeep. The

1:32:47

US attorneys, Jerry, were both

1:32:49

Valerian, Sanita were fantastic

1:32:52

and talking to the jury about direct

1:32:54

versus circumstantial evidence because

1:32:56

all of this was circumstantial, right? We didn't

1:32:59

have anybody seeing Harold do

1:33:01

these because he had isolated Len and

1:33:04

Tony so well. We had no eyewitnesses

1:33:06

to these things happening. And yet Valeria

1:33:09

said, yeah, there's a difference between

1:33:11

direct and circumstantial direct

1:33:13

evidence. Let's say it's snowing outside. You

1:33:16

walk out, you feel the snow hitting your face.

1:33:18

That's direct because you are there

1:33:20

experiencing it. Circumstantial

1:33:22

is you're inside sleeping. It snows

1:33:25

outside. You walk out and you see the

1:33:27

snow. You know it snowed, but you

1:33:29

weren't there to see it. She goes, that's

1:33:31

what we're presenting you today is circumstantial

1:33:34

evidence. It doesn't change evidence.

1:33:36

It's just different than direct. She

1:33:38

set that in front of the jury before and then went

1:33:41

back to it at the end. So the prosecution

1:33:43

was fantastic. And it was

1:33:46

two weeks of testimony

1:33:49

from what I remember. And almost all

1:33:51

of it was the prosecution. The defense

1:33:54

didn't call Harold because in the

1:33:56

opening, Harold's attorney, Craig Truman

1:33:59

had to say this.

1:34:00

My client is a liar. Why

1:34:02

do you have to say that? He had lied about

1:34:05

his job for 20 years. His attorney was

1:34:07

in a box because Harold had lied most

1:34:09

of his adult life and that was going to come out. Harold

1:34:12

then wanted to testify or was making a show, wanted

1:34:14

to testify at the end. But if you

1:34:16

say that to start, is there

1:34:18

any way he can be on the stand when his own attorney

1:34:20

has called him a liar and so has everybody else? And

1:34:23

that's what the judge told him. He's like, Mr. Henthorn,

1:34:25

you're fine testifying, but your

1:34:27

own attorney said this and so did everybody else. So

1:34:29

I don't know how we could say what you're telling

1:34:32

us will be the truth. So he decided

1:34:34

not to testify and then the

1:34:36

jury didn't come back that afternoon.

1:34:39

We had to come in again the next day. I think they

1:34:41

had it for about two, three hours and then

1:34:44

came in and around from my recollection,

1:34:46

lunchtime or so the next

1:34:49

day with a guilty verdict. They did

1:34:51

poll the jurors one by one and

1:34:53

each one resolutely said guilty.

1:34:55

And as a narcissist, as we've

1:34:58

determined that Harold is, how

1:35:00

did he react to that?

1:35:02

Yeah, Beth and I took turns watching

1:35:04

Harold throughout the trial and his

1:35:07

reactions, just like when Neil

1:35:09

Cresswell walked up, were not commensurate

1:35:12

with what someone, how they should

1:35:14

be reacting if you're on trial

1:35:16

for your wife's death. Even when Yvonne

1:35:18

was up there, Harold, when he

1:35:20

should have been crying, was just

1:35:22

sitting there with a smile and then he would cry

1:35:25

at an opportune times as well.

1:35:27

He would take furious notes at times

1:35:30

and then he would just be drawing. We

1:35:32

were trying to figure out what would make

1:35:34

Harold react like a normal human. After

1:35:37

day like two or three, we think his attorneys

1:35:39

just told him, try not to show any emotion

1:35:41

because in our opinion, he wasn't showing

1:35:43

it at the right time. So I don't

1:35:45

even remember his reaction during the guilty

1:35:48

verdict. He was probably just sitting

1:35:50

there, but I had listened to his

1:35:53

prison phone calls for one year leading

1:35:55

up to the trial because he was being held at FCI

1:35:57

Inglewood and he would call all of his.

1:36:00

He had a handful of friends at that point.

1:36:03

He said this whole trial was said

1:36:05

the same thing over again, heinous, heinous

1:36:07

nonsense. That's what he would call it. He

1:36:09

was more concerned, Jerry, with what

1:36:12

suit he would wear and what colors would

1:36:14

look good on him in the courtroom than his defense

1:36:16

strategy, like you said, narcissistic

1:36:19

behavior, even to the day of. And

1:36:21

they would say, well, how do you feel about this? And instead

1:36:23

of talking about the trial, he'd say, yeah, I've got a suit

1:36:25

picked out and it's one for my closet. I'm going to wear

1:36:27

this tie. It's just like he did for 20

1:36:29

years. It's the outward projection

1:36:32

of who he was representing and not

1:36:34

concerned about what's really going on.

1:36:36

Well, this has been a fascinating

1:36:40

case review. Just seeing the way

1:36:42

he thought and how manipulative

1:36:45

he was is just mind-blowing.

1:36:47

It is. Yeah. And

1:36:49

I've seen versions of control of other spouses,

1:36:52

whether it's over their spouse or sometimes

1:36:54

a parent over a child, they become that controlling.

1:36:56

But the faking the job for 20 years in

1:36:58

this pretty intelligent community

1:37:00

and getting away with it is pretty impressive,

1:37:03

you know, the lengths he would go to

1:37:05

maintain this image and how important it was

1:37:07

to him.

1:37:08

So what was the final sentence

1:37:11

and where is he now?

1:37:13

I haven't kept track of him since he's been sentenced.

1:37:16

But the final sentence was life in prison, without

1:37:18

possibility of parole.

1:37:20

All right. Well, it sounds like we've come to

1:37:22

the end of this case review.

1:37:25

That's it. It's one of

1:37:27

the few cases where I've formed some deeper relationships

1:37:30

with the family and my co-case

1:37:32

agents, I mean with Sunita, Valeria, and Beth,

1:37:34

we're still friends. Something like this that draws

1:37:36

so much out of you can't help but

1:37:39

form deeper relationships with those you work

1:37:41

with and work for.

1:37:42

Well, usually at this part of

1:37:44

the episode, I ask you my standard

1:37:47

question, when and why you joined

1:37:49

the FBI. But we did cover that already

1:37:51

in Episode 276. So

1:37:55

what I'd rather do now is to

1:37:57

just catch up with what you're doing

1:37:59

now. And then have you give us

1:38:01

your last word. So are you still

1:38:04

working at the school system?

1:38:06

I'm still working out with Douglas County School

1:38:08

District. It's in the same community

1:38:10

that Harold was operating

1:38:13

in. I really enjoy it. I

1:38:15

was able to use, so I am able to use a

1:38:17

lot of what I learned in the FBI to help keep

1:38:19

our kids and staff safe. I

1:38:21

work very closely with law enforcement and

1:38:24

with each of the principals. When students'

1:38:26

thinking become unhealthy, we're

1:38:29

able to come in and help bump them back into

1:38:32

healthy thinking. But our law enforcement

1:38:34

partners are great. I have had some

1:38:36

FBI cases go to trial, which

1:38:39

I testified in earlier this year, and I

1:38:41

think I'll have a few more that are hopefully wrapped

1:38:43

up. So I still have one foot kind

1:38:45

of there, but I do really miss the FBI.

1:38:48

It was very good to me, Jerry. I'm

1:38:50

sure you can say the same with the passion for what

1:38:52

you do, but I encourage kids

1:38:54

that I speak with to try it

1:38:57

out as a career that you can

1:38:59

make good life choices, good decisions, and

1:39:01

maybe someday you can find some career

1:39:04

that you can enjoy as much as I enjoy the FBI.

1:39:06

It sounds like we may have another

1:39:09

opportunity to have you back

1:39:11

to review some more cases, but I know

1:39:13

you were working on a book.

1:39:16

How's that project coming along?

1:39:18

It's basically a look into my investigation

1:39:20

to Scott Kimball. The FBI is reviewing

1:39:23

it now, and they give me permission,

1:39:25

then I can move forward to finding out

1:39:28

if anybody wants to edit it, publish it, that

1:39:30

sort of thing. I have written a draft

1:39:32

on Henthorn, but it's just more my

1:39:35

notes and the things that I observe going

1:39:37

through. It's not close to a

1:39:39

book, but it is kind of my journal. So

1:39:42

we'll see how this Kimball thing works out first.

1:39:44

Well, we're looking forward to reading

1:39:47

your true crime book, hopefully coming

1:39:49

out in the near future. At this

1:39:51

time, I want to give you the last word.

1:39:53

So what would you like

1:39:54

to say?

1:39:56

I think the lesson that we can learn from

1:39:58

Harold is to not only... be careful

1:40:00

of dealing with a narcissist, but to

1:40:03

address narcissism when it comes up inside

1:40:05

of each one of us. Because I

1:40:07

do believe it's a give and take

1:40:10

on if you start thinking too much of yourself,

1:40:12

you think less and less of other people. Be

1:40:15

very careful if you're dealing with someone

1:40:17

who is very self-centered, because

1:40:20

even though that self-centered person may

1:40:22

make you think you're important to them, you're

1:40:24

not. And I also try to make that

1:40:26

applicable to myself in a case like this

1:40:28

where I start thinking I'm too important. Remember

1:40:31

Harold and how dangerous it is to think too

1:40:33

much of yourself and to be more focused

1:40:35

on other people than yourself.

1:40:38

And that's the end of the interview.

1:40:41

In your podcast app's description

1:40:43

of this episode, there's a link to the

1:40:45

show notes at jerrywilliams.com

1:40:48

where you'll find a photo of Johnny

1:40:51

Grusin, links to news articles

1:40:53

about this case, several photos

1:40:56

from the many quote unquote accident

1:40:58

sites where Harold Henthorne attempted

1:41:01

to or killed his wives. And

1:41:03

there's a link to Grusin's first

1:41:06

FBI retired case file review,

1:41:08

episode 276 about serial killer Scott

1:41:11

Kimball. I

1:41:13

hope you enjoyed the interview and

1:41:15

that you'll share it with your friends, family

1:41:18

and associates. You can show me

1:41:20

just how much you liked it by buying

1:41:22

me a coffee. There's a link in your podcast

1:41:25

app's description of this episode

1:41:28

or you can visit jerrywilliams.com and

1:41:31

tap on the little coffee cup icon

1:41:33

in the bottom right hand corner of my website.

1:41:36

Don't forget to follow FBI Retired

1:41:39

Case File Review on your favorite

1:41:41

podcast app. Now this podcast

1:41:43

is all about true crime, but

1:41:46

if you're also interested in crime

1:41:48

fiction, once a month via my

1:41:50

reader team email, I keep you up

1:41:52

to date on the FBI in books, TV

1:41:55

and movies. When you join my reader

1:41:57

team, you get access to my FBI

1:41:59

Retired Case File Review. reading resource, a colorful

1:42:02

list of more than 70 books about

1:42:04

the FBI written by FBI agents

1:42:07

who have been guest on this podcast.

1:42:09

There's non-fiction, crime fiction, true

1:42:12

crime and memoirs. You'll also

1:42:14

get my FBI reality checklist

1:42:17

where I debunk 20 cliches

1:42:19

about the FBI and receive

1:42:21

news about what I'm up to and

1:42:24

about my FBI non-fiction

1:42:26

and crime fiction books. I want

1:42:28

to thank you for listening to the very end.

1:42:31

I hope you come back for another episode

1:42:34

of FBI Retired Case

1:42:36

File Review with Jerry Williams.

1:42:39

Thank you.