0:17

We're back with another edition of the Federalist

0:19

Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jucinski, culture

0:21

editor here at The Federalist. As always, you

0:23

can email the show at radiolat the federalist

0:26

dot com. Follow us on Twitter at FDRLST.

0:29

Make sure to subscribe wherever you download

0:31

your podcasts as well. Today, we're

0:33

joined by Matthew Peterson. He's the co founder

0:36

of the new founding org. He's

0:38

the founder of American Mine and the host

0:40

of the Matthew Peterson

0:42

Show. Matthew, thanks for joining us.

0:44

Hey, thanks for having me. Good to be

0:46

here. Yeah. It's great to have you. I've

0:48

I've wanted to have you on the show for a while. Why don't

0:50

we start if you could just tell us about the new

0:52

founding org you know, what what

0:54

you're hoping to accomplish with it, what it

0:57

sort of genesis was, that

0:59

would be great.

1:01

Yeah, absolutely. Genesis

1:03

is good way to start. Yeah.

1:05

I mean, twenty twenty watching

1:08

the election results. With

1:10

everyone else. And seeing

1:13

the slow motion train wreck that was about

1:15

to unfold post twenty

1:17

twenty election, I think immediately

1:19

something in me snapped, and I had been working

1:22

hard at Clairemont to bolster

1:25

kind of new right for, you know,

1:27

the last the last few years before that.

1:29

And I immediately knew,

1:32

although everything I was doing there was important, there

1:34

was just more to be done outside of a nonprofit

1:36

structure. And I

1:38

guess what I mean by that is, you know, things that

1:40

I thought needed to exist just,

1:42

you know, I felt like no

1:45

permission needed. We just gotta go out and

1:47

build those things. And I

1:49

felt this really strongly, and I think a lot of people

1:51

did something snapped at that

1:52

time.

1:53

And a lot of people just realized, you know, we gotta

1:55

go do what needs to be done and we can't be

1:57

waiting on, you know, whatever it is,

1:59

you know, donors, investors, whatever just

2:01

go do it. So I

2:04

also want to get the heck out of California for

2:06

reasons that, you know, may not surprise

2:09

you. Yeah. That's fair. So I

2:12

had these visions of, you know, people trying

2:14

to get out and not being able to. And

2:17

I was like, we gotta we gotta get out

2:18

here. So

2:19

I went to Texas and I moved around on your

2:21

country and and thought about what to do

2:23

and ended up meeting Nate Fisher. The

2:25

guy I already knew who is

2:28

you know, the the the reason new founding

2:30

exists in many ways. And

2:32

I decided, among other opportunities to

2:34

go with him, to move to Dallas, and

2:37

just create what really amounts to,

2:39

you know, kind of a venture

2:42

firm for the right. And

2:44

we've spun out a lot of stuff in the last

2:46

two years. So, you know, we just kind of

2:48

dove in and did a lot of things. Some

2:50

of them marked, some of them didn't And

2:54

and now we're at the point where I

2:57

describe, you know, what we're doing at

2:59

as new founding ventures

3:01

where there's embedded things that

3:04

we're incubating that are

3:06

businesses that are needed. So

3:08

an example of that is based WeWork, which

3:11

would be in Dallas and DFW,

3:14

Dallas Fort Worth area first. And there's

3:16

already a list of, like, organizations, people,

3:18

you know, businesses that wanna be

3:21

together in place with like minded people.

3:23

So that's something that we wanna get

3:26

off the ground and we could do that in other places

3:28

as well. Right? So that's something we're incubating

3:30

from within and we're growing from within. And

3:32

then there's deals where

3:35

you're you're basically introducing, you

3:38

know, investors to founders

3:40

and businesses that currently exist. And

3:43

that's, like, the proto Goldman

3:45

Sachs for the right. And

3:48

then underneath all that is the talent network,

3:50

which is just literally taking talent away from

3:52

what capital and moving them to places

3:54

where that aren't insane. Or

3:56

if you're in your business, you know, we were able to

3:58

hire people at a high level. Who

4:00

are not crazy and

4:03

are gonna, you know, do do well for you

4:05

and they wanna get out. So

4:07

guess all of that could be somewhat like a like matching

4:09

people. Right? And, you

4:12

know, in a commercial, cultural kind of

4:14

place. And getting low capital

4:17

and

4:17

talent, you know, and getting capital and talent

4:19

out from low capital. Does that make sense?

4:22

Yeah. And do you think there's a reason that

4:24

conservative movement, maybe

4:28

didn't see the –

4:30

that this was a hole that might need to be plugged?

4:33

Is there, you know, is this a failure of

4:35

the conservative movement basically? Or is

4:37

it more just a response to something that

4:40

changed really quickly?

4:42

No. I think it is a failure, sadly.

4:47

think I'm gonna have to check failure box

4:49

here. I

4:51

I think it's a failure that, you

4:54

know, you can have some mercy on

4:56

these people just because they

4:58

were frogs in the pot, and it it was hard

5:00

to see for many people who

5:03

really were still within the system and thinking

5:05

within the system or the framework of things as they

5:07

were. And You know, the

5:10

the reason I say to failure is because there

5:13

is no such thing as kind of cultural

5:16

neutrality. When

5:18

it comes to business or commerce, you

5:21

know, commercial transactions have

5:25

businesses, products, services. All

5:28

have an effect on the

5:30

human person and the community, whatever

5:33

political community you're part of. So we lived

5:35

in kind of a fantasy world where we had

5:37

opted a rhetoric to that. And in this the

5:40

odd thing about what I'm about to say is that

5:42

it doesn't even mean that libertarian

5:44

experience, for instance, are wrong about a host

5:46

of things. Right? It's just is

5:48

this this deeper philosophic point

5:50

point that you can't pretend

5:53

that business and commerce is all

5:55

neutral or that culture

5:57

is like this neutral space and entertainment. Quote

5:59

unquote can just be whatever you want. It doesn't

6:02

have an effect and, you know, you just let

6:04

freedom rain and it all is fine. Like, that

6:06

you can't pretend that's not true. So

6:09

so in in business, you know, you

6:11

create products and services and

6:13

people want even if the founders,

6:16

the owners, they wanna say, I'm doing something

6:18

good for the world. I'm doing something good for my community.

6:20

I'm doing something good for my workers. Right?

6:22

Even the classic conservative entrepreneurial arguments

6:25

exist to make that point, to give meaning

6:27

and purpose. This to work in the products

6:29

and services. So it's never, like, culturally

6:31

neutral, and think people pretended it was for

6:33

a long time. And I was like, well, if

6:35

you go woke, you'll go broke anyway, and it'll take

6:37

care of itself. And the truth is, you

6:39

know, it's not taken care of itself, and it didn't take

6:41

it. It got worse. And,

6:44

anyway, like, that's I mean, there's a whole Pandora's

6:46

box of things to talk about there, but I think there

6:48

was a false framework of understanding if that

6:50

makes

6:51

sense. Yeah. No. That's absolutely does. And you

6:53

wrote an essay. I wanna say this was in twenty

6:55

twenty about the need for new

6:58

founding. And obviously, that's the name of

7:00

the organization. That we're

7:02

we're talking about. But could you just

7:04

rewind a little bit and maybe

7:07

flesh out the argument you made in that essay

7:09

about a new founding since it is the

7:11

title of the organization and and the thrust

7:13

of

7:14

your efforts, what does it mean to

7:16

say we need a new founding? Yeah.

7:20

That's a good question. I mean, I the

7:22

the the I think you're referring to

7:25

the American piece, I wrote for American

7:27

I did say re founding in that one to

7:29

be to be a bit but but it's similar. Right?

7:31

The new founding, re founding, okay,

7:34

Matt, what are you talking about? You know? So

7:37

I I like re founding for conservatives

7:40

because I think it gets

7:42

across the fact that, you know, they don't

7:44

like, anyway, say they're conserving something, so

7:46

something new would be bad. Right? But

7:50

but at a certain point, I don't think

7:52

it matters. It means the same thing. And

7:54

and the problem is that we

7:56

already have been shaped

7:59

politically the shape of the

8:02

the structure of the

8:05

regime, the structure of the government

8:08

as it really exists, you know,

8:11

affects everything within it.

8:14

You know, the rules, the laws affect

8:17

the flow of of of

8:19

people, power, communication, in

8:21

any system and they go in certain

8:23

ways as opposed to other ways. Right? And at the very

8:25

top, you kinda have your structure of

8:27

government. It's a point that goes back to

8:29

ancient Greeks and and and Socrates talking

8:32

to, you know, talking to piss some people

8:34

off in the market, Brian, talking about how

8:36

the structure of government affects our souls.

8:39

And so when you look at

8:41

what we have now, I

8:43

think the best conservative analysis

8:46

is that you have about a hundred years or

8:49

more of progressive

8:52

change and alteration of

8:54

the constitution, effective constitution of

8:58

the way the government works, etcetera, etcetera.

9:00

And so if you were to get never

9:03

mind back just anything that wasn't

9:05

that, You would have to

9:08

refund America.

9:10

And I don't think that that's

9:12

as controversial as it's sounds.

9:15

I mean, I think every major president

9:17

has done this in some way. You

9:19

know, Lincoln, FDR, they all

9:21

make very serious changes. They

9:24

will change the way people think about governments,

9:27

they change the way it's structured. And

9:30

so I think that, you know, that's the point

9:32

where I now. If you're really gonna change things completely

9:34

have to refound America. And

9:36

then if you think about it in a commercial

9:39

cultural

9:39

sense, which is what really where I'm working

9:41

now, not so much directly, politically,

9:44

You

9:44

need a commercial cultural movement just like they

9:46

have ESG and social justice where

9:49

you sell products and services based around an

9:51

American way of life that's worthy of the name, but

9:53

the problem is that, what is the

9:55

American wildlife right now? I think if you're older,

9:58

you can remember something good. If you're younger,

10:00

that has to be something new again. I

10:02

mean, so so I see it as, you know,

10:05

a new movement, new foundings of all

10:07

kinds are needed IF WE'RE

10:09

GOING TO FORGE A PATH FORWARD WHERE

10:11

THE FUTURE IS BETTER THAN THE PAST.

10:14

WE'RE TAPING THIS NOT SO LONG AFTER

10:16

PRESIDENT BIDEN a union address and

10:18

one of the more interesting pieces of commentary

10:20

afterwards was a a thread from

10:22

Charlie Kirk who was referencing conversation

10:25

he'd had with Pedro Gonzalez, where

10:27

they they thought Joe Biden had in some

10:30

ways intentionally co opted

10:32

the America first language. Biden

10:34

repeatedly talked about buying American

10:38

about needing to to put America

10:40

first. He didn't use the language, but,

10:42

of course, that was a quick patient. And

10:45

interestingly, he said a

10:47

a few times that we are restoring pride.

10:49

He used pride over and over again at one point he a

10:51

build back pride in

10:54

America. And my thought

10:56

on that is, man, this is the last

10:58

Democrat who's who's capable or interested

11:01

in talking like that. What's

11:03

your interpretation of

11:05

Biden's rhetoric in

11:08

light of everything that you're talking about that

11:10

there's this need to center

11:13

the the good of the

11:15

place the nation in our our

11:17

commerce and our culture. And Joe

11:19

Biden seemingly, at least, notoriously,

11:23

suggesting the same What does

11:25

it what does it mean? Well,

11:28

it means he's he's not completely office

11:30

rocker. He's got some,

11:32

you know, some connection to

11:34

reality. I think he's not

11:37

just completely in a in a crazy bubble,

11:39

which I thought through some of the speech. Yeah. I

11:41

had the same thought. I mean, I think I tweeted something

11:43

like that I was expecting, at some point, he's

11:45

just gonna start imitating Trump's voice

11:48

and addiction and start yelling America

11:50

great again. I mean, it was

11:52

very, but it was very

11:54

much as Pedro and Charlie are

11:56

saying, It was a very much

11:58

America first speech and themes.

12:01

He's done that whenever he needs to. He sprinkles

12:03

that in. It

12:05

reminds me of what Hollywood does

12:07

actually to keep, you know,

12:09

the core of America watching.

12:12

Like, they're gonna give you a little bit here and

12:14

there and and they

12:16

keep you they keep you going that way as

12:18

they wokify everything else you know, consistently

12:21

and inexorably in the background. And that's

12:23

kinda what Biden's doing. But so

12:25

I but I okay. Yes. It speaks to the moment

12:27

for sure. That is what

12:30

people want to hear. It it

12:32

addresses reality. Right? Because the

12:34

reality is that It is not

12:36

clear I I do not think it

12:38

is clear what the American way of life is at

12:40

this point. Is it, you know, is it flying the rainbow

12:43

flag and over the, you know, in the embassies

12:45

across the world. Is that

12:47

who we are? Is that who we are?

12:50

I think think Nancy Pelosi

12:52

didn't she say once, like, America is

12:55

trans. That's who we are or something like that.

12:57

She's not wrong. Yeah.

12:59

Yeah. So you know, you you have

13:01

to look at it and go, yes, so what, you know, what are

13:04

we? And and what what should we be?

13:06

And can we can we kind of stake

13:09

a claim there, can we forge a new path? And

13:11

and that goes to, you know, competence,

13:14

excellence, innovation, you

13:17

know, building. Like, so I think it's really significant

13:19

for instance that we and I wanna

13:21

talk about it more. I wanna see video

13:23

about it. I wanna see it in reality and shows.

13:26

Florida and Texas are the places that send

13:28

people to space. Florida and Texas send

13:30

human beings to space. I

13:32

mean, that should be the kind of the kind

13:35

of mantra. Right? Don't know what they're doing in these

13:37

third world, you know

13:39

you know, what, whole countries in

13:41

these cities on the coast. But,

13:44

you know, Florida and Texas send people to space

13:46

and are innovating in the space sector. Like,

13:48

that that is that tells you the kind

13:50

of thing I'm talking about. Right? Like, points in the right

13:52

direction. So Biden knows this. A

13:54

lot of people know this. You know, what's his

13:56

name? Jack O' Wilink, you

13:59

know, incredible podcaster, Navy

14:01

Seal. A guy who's always

14:04

he's very good at getting you to work out

14:06

because he just yells at you. You know? Exactly.

14:08

Right. His his videos are

14:10

like, I just I I slept three hours

14:13

last night and I'm lifting right now. That's

14:16

that's the method. Yes. It's really

14:18

the only one that myself, AAA

14:21

middling aging, you know, middle

14:23

aged guy

14:25

with four kids will accept. I

14:27

don't wanna hear a twenty five year old dude with no

14:29

kids. Tell me what to do. But

14:31

but, you know, when Jaco says he's like, okay,

14:33

fair you know, you get a point there. But here's

14:36

a guy who, you know, I mean, I'm not he's

14:38

not a live I don't think, but he's not very,

14:40

like, politically outspoken or anything.

14:43

He he just bought a company in Maine within

14:45

the last year and is talking about,

14:47

you know, American Maine products. Like, people

14:49

know this is a thing they want

14:52

to reshore. And that is

14:54

tied is what I'm saying is it's not just commercial

14:56

and, like, numbers and finance. That

14:58

is tied to a commercial cultural movement

15:00

that that that is that is deeper and

15:03

and has a more a a meaningful

15:05

sense of purpose than you might think.

15:12

This is Molly Hemingway of Federalist.

15:14

Joining me my husband Mark of real clear

15:17

investigations, Kyle Mann of the Babylon

15:19

B, San Francisco Arch Bishop, Salvator

15:22

Cordiglione, Lutheran Church Missouri

15:24

Senate President Matt Harrison and others

15:26

for the twenty twenty three making the case

15:28

conference Friday, June sixteenth,

15:31

and Saturday, June seventeenth. At Concordia

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University Chicago. Learn more

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at issues ETC dot org,

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making the case June sixteenth and seventeenth

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16:48

I was talking to Spencer Klabin about this, actually,

16:50

this this week with the his new book being out,

16:52

you know, what is the west when he says,

16:54

how to save the west? What is

16:56

what is worth saving? Is it the transiting

16:59

of America? Is it isn't the sort of

17:01

version of America that Macron is

17:03

going to decry as too

17:05

sort of socially progressive, which is hilarious because

17:07

we mostly got it from France, or

17:10

is it the America of

17:12

our founding? And I guess I'll toss

17:14

that question over to you, Matthew. What

17:18

is worth preserving about America

17:21

if we sort of inevitably went

17:23

down this road that got us to where we are

17:25

now?

17:28

Yeah, that's a deep question.

17:30

I think a lot of thoughtful people have

17:32

been asking it and answering it in

17:34

the last few years. My

17:37

first caution with it would

17:39

be to go back two or three

17:41

lifetimes ago when I was professing

17:44

as professor quickly

17:46

decided that was probably not the best thing

17:48

to do in this day and age. But But

17:51

I think humility is needed because

17:55

these are difficult questions and

17:58

everyone wants to answer them. And I do

18:00

think that although I have a lot of fun online,

18:04

you know, just because there's

18:06

some influencer this is what

18:08

I'm about. I'm not referring to Cleveland who's

18:10

actually referring people back to the depths

18:12

of the of the real ideas. But just because

18:14

there's some influencers says x, y, and z, and

18:16

then that becomes like an intellectual avatar, and

18:18

people answer these really deep questions. I

18:21

mean, my own answer is America

18:23

was tied to something

18:26

much deeper than, you know,

18:29

where we are now. And I think if you went back

18:32

to Massachusetts, for instance, in the

18:34

seventeen hundreds, eighteen hundreds,

18:37

and you asked those early people whether

18:39

they you know, they created a say,

18:42

you actually failed. You created a regime that

18:44

is ultimately gonna be trans in kids.

18:47

You know, they punch you in the face. I mean, for

18:49

good reason, say

18:51

what are you are you nuts looking around?

18:54

Look, we're trying to do. And that's

18:56

a long period of time, you know. I mean, two hundred

18:58

plus years, I can write declined story

19:01

about any time in history, I can take the,

19:03

you know, the beautiful high

19:05

watermark of medieval Catholicism and

19:08

then, you know, get to what that,

19:10

then that's the corruption of that actually

19:12

brought you Machiavelli in the moderns. I mean, you

19:14

can tell the kinds of stories of decline

19:17

and ascension in history. So

19:20

I guess, the shorten the answer. I mean, I

19:22

think that America, as

19:25

in the early republic, had

19:28

a sense of of

19:30

a citizenship and the Republican

19:32

form of government that wasn't at avoided

19:34

extremes. It was not it

19:37

was not and oligarchy and it

19:39

was also not a democracy. They

19:42

had a sense of an aristocratic

19:45

elements on article elements.

19:48

But these were all wrapped into a Republican

19:50

form of government where citizenship meant something.

19:53

Everyone thought the synthesis that made America

19:55

was you needed Christianity in order for

19:57

the whole thing to work. Otherwise, the form of government

19:59

itself would not work. They all basically

20:02

thought that. And then, you you know, even

20:04

someone like Jefferson kinda like musk

20:06

now. You know, he doesn't be generous enough. I don't

20:08

believe in Jesus, you know, the miracles, but

20:10

I think basically the morality is

20:13

overlaps with reason and sort of

20:15

an aristotelian notion of ethics.

20:18

And so that synthesis is sort

20:20

of what made America And

20:22

if you look at why the entire west fell apart,

20:24

it's because post, you

20:27

know, roughly post civil war around

20:29

that time, science falls apart

20:31

and becomes atheistic. You know, Jefferson

20:34

and these people thought there was the national order of nature

20:36

and there was something akin

20:38

to national right or natural law. Take

20:40

your pick. And so so when

20:42

that fall falls apart and then it becomes

20:44

cool to be atheist, which Federalist for

20:46

long. I mean, you know, well, you're just going back to some kind

20:48

of pagan thing now. You

20:51

know, then then all of a sudden it's like, what

20:53

country in the west survived that? None of them.

20:55

Right? But America has still

20:57

retained this this

21:00

strength throughout all of that.

21:02

And then that's because of, you

21:04

know, it had these roots, and then it had this

21:06

frontier and this

21:09

kind of, you know, capacious,

21:11

like like, striving, you

21:14

know, moving energy. And

21:16

I think that that's a very powerful thing.

21:18

You can you can look at the downsides of it,

21:21

but it's still here and I see it

21:23

in the faces of people right now

21:25

in their twenties who still want to build, who

21:27

don't, who refuse to bow down

21:29

to this madness. That's America

21:32

still exists here. But,

21:34

you know, I I granted we have a long way to

21:36

go to to take those those seed

21:38

those, you know, kernels that are left and and

21:40

and blow it up into a fire again. I'm

21:43

so glad you went through with your answer because what I

21:45

had in mind when I was asking

21:47

that question is a a daily caller

21:49

up, that you wrote recently,

21:51

where you actually specifically zero in

21:54

on young people, and how young people,

21:56

especially people sort of born in the shadow of nine

21:58

eleven, too young to remember the nineties,

22:00

you say, grew up with a

22:02

very different American experience. And and that in

22:04

and of itself reminded me of a a sub

22:06

stack post from Freddie DeBoer. The

22:08

last couple of weeks where he wrote that the nineties

22:11

were basically the peak of of civilization,

22:13

of American civilization, which is

22:15

so interesting coming from somebody who sort

22:17

of an outright kind of socialist to

22:20

championing the material

22:23

comforts and the balance of material and

22:25

cultural comforts that the nineties

22:27

allowed people to enjoy. So

22:29

I'm gonna read from your daily caller procedure,

22:31

you say bridging this chasm between operational,

22:34

quote, lived experiences and squarely facing

22:37

the landscape of reality is an existential

22:39

necessity for all who wish to save America

22:42

The America that shaped all of us for whom the fall

22:44

of the iron curtain marked the triumph of truth,

22:46

justice in the American way to borrow a phrase

22:48

of Superman is dead and

22:50

gone. So what where

22:53

do we kind of pinpoint the turning

22:55

point? Can we pinpoint the turning point?

22:57

What starts to If if it's

22:59

as recent as the fall of communism,

23:02

the nineteen nineties, the two the early

23:04

two thousands, is is nine eleven

23:06

the turning

23:07

point? Where did we where does

23:09

the decline start? Well,

23:13

I mean, first, we have to give

23:15

the, you know, buy or beware the caveats

23:18

here. I mean, I do

23:20

think that there's something to the nineties

23:22

bit. It speaks to me, but as

23:25

the very young side of Gen

23:27

X, that's the only way

23:29

I can be considered young

23:30

Emily, you know.

23:32

Yeah. Young Gen X or anything? Yes.

23:34

A young gen x or But so,

23:37

of course, anyone from that generation

23:39

is gonna say, like, yes, the nineties is when

23:41

it peaked, you know. That'll be just

23:43

because of but there's but there certainly

23:46

is something to it. Right? There's something

23:48

to I think

23:50

it just because of what happened

23:52

with the iron curtain, especially. I

23:54

mean, so I think the fall of the Soviet

23:56

Union is certainly a historical marker.

23:59

Nine eleven to some lesser extent

24:02

is. But I

24:04

I don't think I think the corruption we're

24:07

talking about was, you know, progressed

24:10

throughout the course of over a century.

24:12

I mean, this

24:15

is what I teach all the if I

24:17

clarify and just draw draws me back in

24:19

to to teach in the fellowship programs I used to run

24:21

and And one of the sessions

24:23

I'll do is I'll explain to everyone, you

24:25

know, you think you know something about what America

24:27

is in the founding. I I can tell you you need humility

24:30

because no one reads the actual words of the

24:32

founders. And I know that because

24:34

I can show you that the books were out of print

24:36

for a long time. And some of them still aren't

24:38

complete like this. bunch of this stuff is

24:40

still out of print. We no one even reads this

24:42

stuff. And so so you and

24:44

I you can show that in a variety of ways.

24:46

No one's studying it now. Right? That

24:49

And so what what ends up happening is

24:51

no one is reading the

24:53

the books and the universities even

24:55

a long time ago. And in social

24:57

science kind of takes over and no one cares

24:59

what the founders say. And

25:02

then World War two happens, we become

25:04

the Hegeman and there's a kind of a little

25:06

a small renaissance of going, like, well, wait

25:08

a minute. Who are we? Who are we?

25:10

As as she says, finding an email. Right? Who

25:12

am I? And so so that

25:14

we asked that question. And there's kind of renaissance

25:17

of, like, going back to students of Leo Strauss

25:19

and many other scholars. Start

25:21

to say, like, well, you know, where where are

25:23

we at here? And they start to read the words again.

25:26

And that is part of that definitely

25:28

the the conservative movement, you know, actually, over

25:30

the last fifty years. So, like,

25:32

you know, we've lost we already were

25:35

losing that. And then, you know, after

25:37

world war two, there's kind of this explosion of,

25:39

like, material hedonism. You

25:42

know, everyone sends their kids to college and they'll

25:44

realize the com the colleges are full of common

25:46

this. It'll be great if they all go there and then

25:48

you get the baby boomers who are, you know,

25:50

maybe a little self obsessed as generation. They

25:53

they grow up with TV though, you and blame them. That

25:55

was just dumped on society. And then

25:57

you dumped digital on society and,

26:00

you know, we we win the Cold War

26:02

there's absolutely nothing to worry

26:04

about. And then nine eleven

26:06

happens and we start to look around and realize,

26:08

gosh, we're still in charge, but we can't actually

26:10

win anything and we're getting a lot matter by

26:12

the day. Mhmm. And and

26:15

I think that that that kind of unraveling

26:17

is, you know, cyclical in human

26:19

history. And and and here we are So

26:22

I don't know. That's that's a

26:24

that's a general rant. I don't know if there's there's not

26:26

really one point you can you can say,

26:29

oh, when it happened here, I guess I'll

26:31

just say this and I'll stop if you're if you

26:33

if you didn't remember the nineties or

26:35

there are dim memory, then

26:38

you are in a situation in which

26:40

you were sort of raised

26:42

more in digital world as

26:44

James, my my and colleague James Polis

26:46

said, which is when the the iPhone drops.

26:49

You're more in digital world than not, which

26:51

is a completely different world in

26:53

a different America. And the fumes

26:56

that were there of something more traditional,

26:59

the limits that were there even

27:01

as things degenerated, our

27:03

chest, like, have been, like, removed. And

27:06

so I do think, like,

27:08

Post two thousand,

27:10

whether America is good actually

27:13

becomes a serious question on balance.

27:16

That's that's a really good way to put it.

27:18

And it makes sense, you know, you

27:21

you quote Reagan's farewell address where

27:23

he says, at the time. I mean, so this

27:25

is, like, we're talking in nineteen

27:27

eighty nine. He says people who are over thirty

27:29

five or so years of age grew up in a different America,

27:31

one in which they were quote, taught very directly

27:34

what it means to be an American. Again,

27:36

he's saying that in nineteen eighty nine and we now

27:38

have that problem, I I think, to a degree that's

27:40

probably Probably it would have been

27:43

shocking even to Reagan, not unimaginable,

27:45

but certainly shocking. And,

27:48

you know, I grew up in the nineties and the same

27:50

thought as DeBoer before DeBoer wrote that piece.

27:53

It just sort of it was

27:55

sort of a hazy type of of thought

27:57

that I think he put into words in an interesting

27:59

way. But if you think of

28:02

how we addressed race in the nineties,

28:04

I'm curious for your thoughts on this, Matthew.

28:07

Like, this is the way that we talked and

28:09

and we treated each other, obviously, of Rodny

28:11

King and riots in the early nineties. But

28:13

even then, the the sort

28:15

of respect and and

28:18

dignity that people were that

28:20

are norm. What we celebrated. I

28:22

mean, racism was incredibly stigmatized in

28:24

the nineties. But we go

28:26

back and we think that even now we're just

28:28

in a sort of a country that is soaked

28:31

and drenched in everyday

28:33

racism

28:34

but that shift seems to be indicative

28:36

of a bigger one too. Yes.

28:39

No, I think that's right. And I think that what Reagan

28:42

you know, saw and and pinpointed there.

28:45

What he says is is, you know,

28:47

he's very well dressed to the country, you know, he's kind

28:50

of Charles Kessler, professor

28:52

of mine likes to say is kind of his admission

28:54

of, like, this is what I'm still worried about.

28:56

Like, I didn't succeed fully and inclocating

28:59

the new patriotism. And what he says

29:01

is, you know, there is a new patriotism, but

29:03

he notices that those who

29:05

are, you know, younger than forty or thirty

29:07

five Now they're raising kids

29:10

and they're ambivalent about whether or not

29:12

to be patriotic. They're they're going back and

29:14

forth. Like, is America good or not? Right?

29:16

Ninety is, like, political correctness is on the

29:18

campuses. It hasn't metastasized

29:22

or revealed its full self, but It's

29:25

not clear. Right? We might be bad, actually.

29:27

I don't know. And then once you turn

29:29

the corner after the nineties, it's, no, no,

29:31

we are bad. And then if you're

29:34

coming from the right as well, you're looking

29:36

around going. Maybe we're actually

29:38

the baddies though. And so

29:40

you you see this you see

29:42

this turn on both sides, you know, kind of

29:44

post nineties. And with race is the same

29:46

way. I mean, look, they they were starting all

29:48

this crap. I mean, of course, you know, the ideas

29:50

for this came out of post world

29:53

war two academia and

29:55

and and descent culture. On

29:57

the left for a lot of this

29:59

stuff. But, you know, they'd already gotten into universities

30:02

and they were they were building it. But think you're right.

30:04

In the general culture at the time, it

30:06

was still the original spirit of how

30:08

the Civil Rights Act was sold, which

30:10

was we are gonna adjust. We're just gonna

30:12

be color blinds. And Yeah. I mean,

30:15

to some extent that that can be a

30:17

little bit of a of

30:19

a larp, you know. I mean, people

30:21

do recognize color and whatever.

30:23

But we're gonna basically, we've decided

30:25

as a nation. We're not going to, you

30:27

know, deal with deal with

30:30

racism. We're we're just gonna say we're we

30:32

are color blind and we're gonna abide

30:34

by that. And that

30:36

was was still still prevalent. Right?

30:38

So, yes, it was, you know, the stuff

30:40

we see now was and growing, but in

30:42

the general culture, it it was that

30:44

way. And then transgressive comedians, right,

30:48

would would play with that. And it was funny

30:50

for everybody, You know, I mean,

30:52

the thought like, I remember thinking I

30:55

forget what what happened, but one of these crazy moments

30:57

the other day. I was thinking, I

30:59

guess it was Kanye's actually a final

31:01

act or final act for now, you know,

31:04

diving off the the stage into

31:06

Taylor how to plan whatever

31:08

he was doing. So I remember

31:10

seeing him and thinking like, why would you

31:13

ban this kind of speech and

31:15

talk It used to be that

31:17

that every crazy talk show would have like

31:19

a KKK episode or whatever. You know

31:21

what I mean? Jerry Springer. Yeah.

31:24

I mean, you you and they and they'd be like

31:26

fight on there and and I

31:28

mean, it it was a much more

31:30

open culture that if you haven't didn't

31:32

experience it, you can't even imagine because

31:35

the walls all just started closing in

31:37

so fast, so

31:38

suddenly. Yeah. I know that's funny you said

31:40

that because I was actually I was I was noodling

31:42

on potentially a piece about how you could turn

31:44

into the Raucous daytime shows of

31:46

the nineties, and you could see either, you know,

31:49

people literally beating the star

31:51

out of Nazis on Jerry Springer or

31:53

Oprah, rhetorical beating the star

31:55

out of Nazis. Just that,

31:57

you know, your casual four PM daytime

32:00

TV viewing, and it was much

32:02

healthier. It was it was it's sort of like what

32:04

Band Aidanich says about the death of

32:06

Cross fire in the John Stewart sort of

32:08

much heralded dressing down of Tucker Carlson,

32:11

I think Paul Biegalo, where he said, you know, you're

32:13

ruining the country, but actually having

32:15

public basis to vent this

32:18

was healthy. It was like a relief valve. Howard

32:20

Bauchner: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this

32:23

is one of the biggest problems you see now. Now

32:25

is and it's sort of what I think I

32:27

think a lot of people in a ruling class

32:29

are okay with making

32:32

happen, pushing is that if you don't

32:34

have the sunlight, you know, all kinds of weird things

32:36

start to grow and,

32:39

like, mold really. And that's what

32:41

that's what we have now. If you wanna

32:44

control speech in this way, you're just gonna get

32:46

all kinds of weirdness, you know, growing

32:48

in different ways. Some of it would be permenicious.

32:50

Some of it's just weird. But that's

32:53

what's gonna happen because you're gonna create

32:55

a a culture that by necessity

32:57

needs the scent of

32:59

a kind that's just much more radical. And

33:02

and and this is like the conspiracy theory stuff is

33:04

the same way. Right? I mean, if you're gonna call people

33:07

asking obvious questions, the

33:09

conspiracy, or take Alex Jones. I mean,

33:12

it is unthinkable to me. Right?

33:14

I Of course, conspiracy theorists

33:16

are gonna say stuff about school shootings.

33:18

Like, I mean, I don't It

33:21

doesn't offend me. You know? I mean, it's

33:23

like, I don't Why would you care?

33:25

And I and somehow we got to the point, it

33:27

would be like, oh my gosh. It is awful what this

33:29

person said. I'm like, look, I'm not

33:31

a crazy, you know, free speech, libertarian,

33:33

whatever, but it doesn't bother me at all. Like,

33:35

of course, you let you have a public square,

33:37

people say crazy stuff. If you wanna control

33:40

it, you're gonna make the crazy stuff worse.

33:43

And you will create that, you know, that black

33:45

market, so to speak, if someone,

33:47

you know, is saying awful things or conspiracy

33:50

theories about various events, like, what do I care?

33:52

That will always used to exist in American life.

33:54

I remember in high school, I subscribed to,

33:56

you know, as a nerd, I subscribed to some

33:58

political publications and all of a sudden you get

34:00

these letters from, you know, a little bit crazier

34:03

and crazier. You

34:05

know, like, right wing, you know, people.

34:08

And I I mean, I always thought that

34:10

was part of the deal, like, as part of the interesting

34:12

game of the public square. And

34:15

it's it's it's

34:18

it's not shocking when you look at what these people

34:20

believe in how it did slowly

34:22

grow. But to actually see

34:24

the transition point from one

34:26

decade to another when

34:29

it's put into place, which is very much

34:31

where I feel we are if I'm gonna make one claim about

34:33

a turning point is that within our lifetimes,

34:35

we have seen something transition

34:37

into, like, a new form of regime, a new

34:40

a new form of culture. And that

34:42

is, you know, that is something

34:44

I I will claim is happening, and that's

34:46

why we need to

34:47

fight. Howard Bauchner: So I'll also

34:49

ask about another part of your daily caller history.

34:52

Say, it should be no surprise then if we consider

34:54

the ever increasing tyranny of the last

34:56

two decades. That young people embrace

34:59

the woke power hierarchies in which

35:01

they have been raised or rebel in

35:03

nihilistic ways the

35:05

walls have always been closing

35:08

in on their hopes and dreams.

35:10

Such an important point and one I think that's underappreciated

35:13

by some people in the conservative movement who

35:15

just gonna wanna rage against

35:18

woke zoomers and millennials

35:21

without, I guess, understanding. Of

35:24

course, they've sort of been conditioned to see the

35:26

country as evil. They've been conditioned to

35:28

see truth as relative. So

35:30

what do you what do you expect from them? And and

35:32

how do you persuade them out of that?

35:35

When you say the walls have always been closing in on

35:37

their hopes and dreams, what

35:39

is the interplay between culture

35:41

and economics between, you

35:43

know, the shadow of the great recession, the shadow

35:45

of nine eleven, and the the last

35:48

to decades of tyranny, as you say,

35:51

how much of the the the dying

35:53

dream in front of them is

35:55

dying because of culture and how much of it is

35:57

dying because of economics? Yeah.

36:01

That's such a good question. Makes

36:04

me think writing some new articles. I

36:07

think, which I don't I'm

36:10

not generally don't like to do anymore. But

36:13

but I do it anyway. I do it anyway. Emily,

36:16

I have to. But, you know, I

36:18

mean, look, culture,

36:20

and this is the point is those two things

36:22

are intertwined. And I think,

36:24

actually, this makes me think thinking out loud

36:26

with you here. Makes me think this might be a good

36:29

way to describe it to the to the right. Because when I run

36:31

into that on the right is, you know, people

36:33

will be like, well, America is still really wealthy. It's

36:35

still his opportunity. Look at all

36:37

people who wanna come here yada yada. And

36:39

that and that's all true. Like, we still are in the

36:41

edge of mind. Like, don't get me wrong. I mean, you know,

36:43

China, yes, Russia, okay, but

36:46

we really are we really are

36:48

large and in charge still. So,

36:52

you know, fools drunkards in the United States of

36:54

America God takes care. We're we're

36:56

still sitting there even though we're declining rapidly

36:59

on top of the heap. So this is

37:01

true. And and there's there's truth that I don't wanna

37:03

deny that. But

37:05

the difference is enormous on

37:07

both fronts. So the example

37:09

would be if you're, you know, you

37:12

post World War two, you

37:14

you have all these guys who they

37:16

maybe they were in California because the military, whatever.

37:19

They go back to California. They move to California. California.

37:21

They start a family in Southern California. Doing

37:24

that in the nineteen fifties to me

37:26

seems like peak American dream.

37:28

Right? I mean, it it's like

37:31

I I imagine the yellowstone there.

37:33

Like, dude goes, buys a house, you

37:35

know, probably not that far from the beach

37:37

in Orange County say, And then

37:39

just leaves his life has kids,

37:42

you know, his wife can stay home

37:44

and maybe she ends up getting a job in

37:46

the seventies. And then, you know, the kids

37:49

the kids all grow up and and they live there

37:51

as well. I mean, what you see in that progression,

37:54

say, to nineteen ninety five or so,

37:57

you know, from nineteen fifty five is

37:59

the America. I mean, it doesn't get

38:01

any better than that. Right? I mean, California

38:04

you know, grows and grows prosperity,

38:08

sunshine, the whole deal. But

38:13

You know, I would say

38:15

that that's not a strategy if

38:17

you're a young kid today. Right?

38:19

Should you go to like, just find a place in America

38:22

like California in the nineteen fifties and move

38:24

there, you know, and take my investment

38:26

advice, which includes buying a house in

38:28

California in the nineteen fifties or

38:30

sixties. Yes? Yeah. Like, that

38:32

would be marvelous. That would be fantastic. We'd

38:34

love that. So so there's

38:37

what's going on though is also cultural. Right?

38:39

For that person, back then, they

38:41

have hope. They have belief in America.

38:43

They probably fought for America in,

38:46

you know, wars that dare I say

38:48

we won. And they

38:51

have this, you know, rising sense

38:53

that things are gonna be better for my kids.

38:55

If I send them to college, you know,

38:57

that's gonna be good that, of

38:59

course, for them, they're gonna learn stuff, and they're

39:01

gonna There was no sense. I mean, oh, they sent

39:04

all their kids to college. That's what created the baby

39:06

boom because they just, of course, they thought it was good and they trusted

39:08

the experts. So so

39:10

imagine you go you go to it now. It's a completely

39:13

different scene culturally. There still

39:15

is some economic opportunity But

39:18

it's so radically

39:19

different. This is what I mean in that essay that if you

39:21

don't see that there's a chasm and experience

39:24

between the two that you're not talking about

39:26

the same countries, then

39:28

you will do the same thing. A lot of conservative

39:30

donors unfortunately have

39:32

done, which is just, you know, say these managers

39:34

that don't make sense anymore because If

39:36

you're telling that first off to that kid today,

39:38

don't move to California. It's questionable

39:40

whether go to college at all in many cases.

39:43

And, you know, what what are you looking

39:45

at in terms of advancement in your life?

39:48

You know, first off, you need

39:50

know, you need a molecule

39:52

basically, a molecule to get

39:54

a head. Like, is everyone gonna are you gonna

39:56

have you're gonna start at the bottom you're

39:58

gonna need, you know, at

40:00

at least two people earning a

40:02

full time income to compete

40:04

with anyone else you're gonna

40:06

delay having kids, you know, in

40:09

your mind by necessity.

40:11

So, you know, you're forgetting kind of the the family

40:13

aspect of what was there. And you live

40:15

in a society in which you have to protect your kids

40:18

once you have them from, you

40:20

you know, the school next

40:21

door, which is promoting sexual mutilation.

40:24

I mean, it's

40:26

unfathomable. Never mind the fact that when

40:28

you look at the the monopolization of the

40:30

economy and the financialization of the economy,

40:33

you have these large scale financial structures

40:35

that are transnational, and

40:37

they don't have loyalties or allegiance to America.

40:40

Not clear that what's, you know, what's good for Ford is

40:42

good for America, maybe back in the day, but what's good

40:44

for Google? Is that good for America? We all kinda

40:46

laugh. I don't know. It's definitely good for Google.

40:49

Don't be evil except when we're evil. We

40:51

treat you all the time. You know, we are evil.

40:54

I mean, they're the evil empire. They're the worst of

40:56

all of all of them. So so your options

40:58

are if you to move on to professional

41:00

status, you wanna go into an elite job

41:03

in this world today. You're gonna go to an

41:05

insane work school with a bunch people who hate

41:07

you. And then you're gonna go work for what? You're gonna

41:09

go work for, you know, someplace you think

41:11

is sexy. You're gonna go work for Goldman. You're

41:14

gonna go work for BlackRock. You're gonna go

41:16

to an elite law firm. Guess what?

41:18

You know, you're you're also hated there.

41:21

You will never be able to have conversations

41:23

about what you truly believe and think.

41:25

And if you do say publicly what you think

41:28

about, you know, politics or religion, you

41:30

will be fired and

41:31

canceled. That's

41:34

a little different than it was in the past. Howard Bauchner:

41:36

So let me ask a much

41:39

more basic question then, which is you're

41:42

working in the space and a very important

41:44

space. And then

41:47

are you optimistic And

41:49

just to just to put it bluntly, are

41:52

are you optimistic? I think,

41:54

again, when I was talking to spend the other day. He was like,

41:56

well, there's a difference between being hopeful and

41:58

being optimistic. So

42:00

I'll I'll stick with

42:01

optimism. What is it?

42:03

And do you have any Matthew? Hope

42:07

is a virtue. Yes. Optimism.

42:11

I do have optimism. And

42:14

it maybe it's in a kind of sick way.

42:17

But sorry. I'm gonna I'm just gonna

42:19

have to beep

42:20

here, and the audience is gonna have to deal with it, I guess.

42:22

No means.

42:23

But so so

42:25

so look. I do not I

42:28

think the situation is dire. A

42:30

lot of the times, what I'm trying to do is

42:33

tell people how bad it is. And

42:39

So I think that it's much,

42:41

much worse than most people in

42:43

conservative audiences even imagine.

42:47

Especially the more, like, the ones who fancy

42:50

themselves intellectual, I think

42:52

it's pretty bad. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie

42:54

about that. And I think that, you know,

42:56

basically, every elite institution is,

42:58

you know, against us. I

43:01

think, you know, the state parties The

43:04

red states have a lot of potential, but basically

43:06

the Republicans who run most of the

43:08

red states are completely out to lunch

43:11

complacent team b and c players

43:14

who are just doing whatever their,

43:16

you know, their masters tell them to.

43:18

And it's not like it's big conspiracy. It's just

43:20

they're gonna take corporate money, whatever money to,

43:23

you know, for their their

43:25

base, like, design players to have, like, a little

43:27

vacation home by a lake or something. I mean, they

43:29

don't care about the deeper stuff. Right? So the

43:31

whole thing is corrupt and and it's bad.

43:33

People don't realize how corrupt a society is,

43:36

you know, the money that changes hands and just

43:38

how it works in a kind of de facto

43:40

way. It's almost out in the open,

43:43

but not quite people sense it. That's why they're because

43:45

they have so many conspiracy theories. So,

43:47

yeah, bad, bad, bad. I am

43:49

optimistic because I

43:51

do not think the full measure of resistance

43:54

has yet been seen. And

43:57

I know this because I do talk to

43:59

people every day who have

44:02

been silent. You know, I was talking to someone

44:04

who about human

44:06

resources and and people in HR.

44:08

At the top levels throughout the country yesterday.

44:11

And, you know, it

44:13

was very interesting. I mean, there's a number of

44:15

people who are kinda quietly talking to each other,

44:17

who are not down. With what's going on in Wokage

44:20

R, you know. But they can't say that

44:22

allowed us to be fired. But,

44:24

you know, in every sector, Every

44:26

day, I talk to talented people

44:28

who wanna get out, who wanna create new things.

44:31

And that's why I'm saying, like, their help is on

44:33

the way. It's not that

44:35

the scene is great and we're gonna necessarily

44:37

win, but it means that the resistance

44:40

hasn't even happened for real.

44:42

And so this is the DeSantis model

44:44

as well. Right? What happens if a resident governor

44:47

actually starts to do some of

44:49

the obvious things Some of us have been

44:51

screaming that they should do. Well,

44:54

guess what? They win. They win. And

44:56

they win big. So So

44:58

this is this is something I see in

45:00

commerce and culture. Look at the daily

45:02

wire. Look at Elon Musk.

45:04

You see people moving and they're rewarded

45:07

in some way, right, by the market.

45:10

And so I think that, you

45:12

know, right now, we almost have an influencer problem

45:15

on the right. It's like one man, know,

45:17

plants are flat. And says, whatever. And then

45:19

a bunch of money comes to him. And it's like, can

45:21

he build something bigger? Or is it just,

45:23

like, basically, a mini house for himself? You

45:26

see this over and over again because the

45:28

demand is so great for something different.

45:30

So whoever can scale up larger

45:33

scale businesses in

45:35

this you know, in this moment is going

45:37

to be successful in both

45:39

ways, not just monetarily, but in

45:41

like striking the blow for good that's needed.

45:44

You know, you take media, this is certainly the

45:46

case. Whoever can, you

45:48

know, build that larger network, the next,

45:50

you know, the next fox basically is

45:53

is the demand is there, and that's

45:55

obvious to me.

45:57

There's no question. So can you bring

45:59

the talented people out and transition

46:01

them out of low capital, the people who

46:03

actually can build larger things, the adults

46:05

in the room who are quietly seizing.

46:08

And put them together to build new things in

46:10

new sectors, and that has to be done

46:12

around a new commercial cultural movement.

46:15

Like investment works this way too. All the

46:17

investors think, you know, their geniuses, a lot of

46:19

them are. And

46:20

but, you know, to tell a story to get the

46:22

to get the the investment you need, if

46:24

you're if you're on the left or you just don't care,

46:27

you talk about how your company is gonna save the environment.

46:29

Right? I mean, you know what the the the

46:31

the

46:31

ethical, like, cultural world

46:34

you live in is and you fit within that.

46:36

Well, we need a movement moving in

46:38

an even more important direction, the actual

46:40

true direction that's gonna that's gonna save civilization

46:43

that's, you know, radically pro family that's

46:45

about reshoring everything back to America

46:47

and finding opportunities, the economic

46:49

opportunities that are there. So

46:52

that movement that I'm talking

46:53

about, that commercial cultural movement, that's just getting

46:55

started. And, you know, it's

46:57

it's what I know for certain is, these

47:00

people that I'm talking to every day, these people I'm

47:02

connecting every day, these are real

47:04

people. And the moves that we're making these

47:06

are real organizations. These are real businesses.

47:09

And what we haven't even you haven't even

47:11

seen yet

47:12

is, you know, this thing in public.

47:14

You know, there's four or five dating apps for instance

47:17

that are all trying to move against

47:19

the tenderization of America. Fascinating

47:21

efforts, people who are I think in all cases,

47:23

basically, under thirty, right, building these or,

47:26

you know, it's certainly under forty, and they're

47:28

they're building these apps, and they're they're all

47:30

moving in a different direction. That's a movement.

47:32

It's just you haven't seen that movement because no one's

47:34

highlighting it as such, you know. So

47:37

so that's where I'm optimistic that

47:39

we will them have some wins.

47:41

We will see this movement

47:44

move in a in a, again, political,

47:46

commercial, and cultural way against what's

47:48

happening. Everyone is younger is

47:50

knows it. They're all eager to join. They

47:52

get very excited about any of this. And we're

47:54

gonna band together and we're gonna fight. And we're gonna

47:57

see what it happens. Right? And it

48:00

may be that this movement isn't enough

48:02

and that even if, you know, if

48:04

I'm sitting there as chairman of you

48:06

know, the company worth billions of dollars

48:08

in, you know, a few years from now.

48:11

And I'm thrown in jail, right, will I break?

48:13

I mean, that's the way I think about it. That's how serious

48:16

it is. Will you win? You

48:18

know, at the end of the day? I don't know. But

48:20

we haven't seen the beginning of the actual

48:22

resistance. I'm so I'm staying in an optimistic

48:24

mode today. I like it. Sounds

48:27

good to me and the sort of a

48:29

necessary dose. Of optimism. Matthew

48:31

Peterson is the co founder of new founding.

48:34

He's the founder of American Mind and the host

48:36

of the Matthew Peterson Show. Thanks

48:38

so much for joining us.

48:39

Hey. Thank you. But long long time

48:42

coming. It's good to good to good to be

48:44

on. Yeah. I

48:46

need to talk about, yeah, your article,

48:48

the Nikon one. Oh,

48:50

yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That was a lot

48:52

of fun. Yes. Thoughts

48:54

about technology there were very

48:57

very spot on. If people living

48:59

this, if people haven't heard

49:01

of this this living this terrible virtual

49:03

life, Yeah. That's

49:06

that's miserable. Matthew,

49:09

where can people find the show? I

49:12

just go to you go to Apple or Spotify,

49:14

Podbean. It's just a Matt Peterson

49:17

show. I think it's a new

49:19

founding as the address at at podbean.

49:21

Go to new founding dot com. You can see some of the stuff

49:23

we're doing, and I'm on Twitter

49:25

at

49:26

D0CMJP. Great. We'll

49:28

drop a link there. Been listening to another

49:30

edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jacenski

49:32

culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back

49:34

soon with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom

49:37

and anxious for the frame.