0:17

We're back with another edition of the Federalist

0:19

Radio Hour. I'm Emily Deschinsky culture

0:21

editor here at the Federalist. As always,

0:23

you can email the show at radio at the federalist

0:25

dot com. Follow us on Twitter at FDRLST.

0:28

Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your

0:30

podcasts as well. Today, we're joined

0:33

by Leonidas Johnson. He is the author

0:35

of the new book called raising victims.

0:37

The pernicious rise of critical

0:39

race theory it is out on February

0:42

seventh is also the host of a podcast

0:44

called informed descent He runs

0:46

a substack by the same name. You can find that

0:48

at leonidas dot subsack dot com.

0:50

Leonidas, thank you so much for joining Federal

0:52

Stradewire. Absolutely. Thank

0:55

you so much for having me. Of course. Well, first of

0:57

all, congratulations on the book. And

0:59

if you could start since it's your first time on the

1:01

show just by giving us a little bit of your

1:03

background, You know, what led you to

1:05

writing the the book raising

1:07

victims? What's your career looked

1:10

like up until this

1:11

point? That would be great. Yeah.

1:13

So I'm actually a speech

1:15

language pathologist. That's

1:17

my day job. And the

1:19

whole political commentary, the

1:21

podcast, in in the book actually

1:24

all happened by accident, believe it or not.

1:26

I never I never intended on

1:29

setting out to dive into

1:31

the world of politics and political commentary.

1:34

That was that was never something I wanted to do or

1:36

something I pursued. But I

1:39

I ended up building a following on social

1:41

media because people were responding

1:44

to what I was saying and it was resonating

1:46

with people. Particularly around issues

1:48

of race. And, yeah,

1:51

I I ended up having over a hundred

1:53

thousand followers on Twitter. And

1:55

I had a agent approach me. Well, I

1:57

why started well, first, I started getting interviews

2:00

with Fox and and news

2:02

nation and and things like that. And

2:05

And and then an agent

2:07

approached me and asked me if I wanted to write a book.

2:09

And I would I was already writing all

2:11

kinds of stuff about about race and about

2:14

critical race theory and about

2:16

color blindness and post racial society

2:18

and things like that. So I'm

2:20

writing this stuff anyway. Might as well

2:23

put it into a book. So that

2:26

that's the basic genesis of it is

2:28

it it all kind of God kinda

2:30

just opened one door at or another.

2:32

And all of a sudden, I have a book coming

2:34

out on February February seventh.

2:37

Well, hey, that's a great that's a great

2:40

great story. And if

2:42

you what do you think it is? I mean, this is a

2:44

really difficult time for a lot

2:46

of people to just be honest about their

2:48

opinions, especially in critical race there. It's divided

2:50

a lot of communities divided families,

2:53

friendships, and all of that. What made

2:55

you wanna kinda stick your neck out and

2:57

start doing writing on this and and hosting

2:59

the

2:59

podcast? Well, it it was

3:01

it was general annoyance because

3:04

all the commentary, all the popular commentary

3:06

anyway that was coming from the progressive much. Surrounding

3:10

race was just black wrong.

3:12

And and and I would and I would hear

3:14

my friends and and even people in my

3:17

church would buy into

3:19

these narratives. And I would spend so

3:21

much so much time just trying

3:23

to debunk these narratives and try to show them the

3:25

statistics and try to show them how this

3:28

various toxic and how it's infiltrating

3:30

into the schools under DEI

3:32

and anti racism. And like all of

3:34

these things, And so

3:37

it it was something I was doing anyway because it

3:39

was just a frustration at at the narrative

3:41

that was surrounding race And

3:44

I but you're absolutely right. People are

3:47

they're they're they're they're mostly terrified to

3:49

speak out against it even if they do understand

3:51

what critical race there is. And they do

3:53

understand the toxicity around it. A

3:55

lot of times people are afraid to push back.

3:57

And that's not that that's

4:00

not always unwarranted because there is

4:02

there is some risk there or some, you know, people

4:05

still lose their jobs sometimes where for

4:07

not having the right the right opinions and

4:10

they get attacked by mob sometimes if they don't

4:12

have the right opinion. So it's not unwarranted, but

4:14

at the same time, time, there there does

4:16

need to be some courage, and people

4:19

need to stand up for what they believe in. So,

4:21

yeah, this book is just it it's it's become

4:24

something that I I really wanted

4:26

to really really break

4:29

into what critical race theory actually

4:31

is because so people would understand what

4:34

it is and how it rates, what its history

4:36

is, where it comes from, and then

4:38

how it's infiltrating our society and how

4:40

it's impacting, well,

4:42

our society at large, but especially our children.

4:45

And then on top of that, I

4:47

would say the undercurrent and the entire book is

4:49

the idea of color blindness and and pushing

4:51

us toward this post racial society. And

4:54

that's really my main passion in the leads

4:56

that I I want to initiate

4:58

this paradigm shift in our society where

5:01

we start moving toward basically

5:03

doctor King's dream. You know, like, treating

5:06

people by the content of their character and not the color

5:08

of their skin. Treating skin color is no

5:10

more consequential to who we are than

5:12

hair color and eye color. It's part of

5:14

us, but we we don't let it define us.

5:17

So that's what I'm hoping the book

5:19

is able to do. At

5:21

least start a conversation and

5:23

hopefully move into that paradigm

5:25

shift. But, yeah, it's it's

5:27

been a tough it's been a tough battle. So

5:30

I was gonna say, you know, personally, what's

5:32

it been like for you? Obviously, the book is a positive

5:34

consequence of your decision to test

5:36

that when I've gotten started. Saying things that

5:38

a lot of people probably agree with or they would

5:40

if they had more information other

5:43

outside the sort boundaries of what media

5:45

is in popular culture is saying. But

5:47

what has your experience been, like, personally, in

5:50

the last, you know, a couple of years,

5:53

especially things have been very tense. You

5:55

know, just your old community and your own personal

5:57

life. Have you gotten a lot

5:59

of pushback? Has it been sort of a painful

6:01

experience? Or has it also, you

6:03

know, had some good consequences like

6:05

the book come out of it as well. It's

6:08

it's it's been a mixed bag. There's

6:10

obviously been a lot of positive

6:12

things that have come from it.

6:16

But there's been a lot of negative too But

6:18

the fortunate thing is I've done a pretty good

6:21

job at separating the political

6:23

stuff from my personal stuff So

6:25

it hasn't really infiltrated my personal

6:27

life too much.

6:29

And we I I think it

6:31

helps because we live in a very conservative area

6:34

of Southern Ohio. And so

6:36

most people in my community where

6:38

we live, they're they're pretty

6:41

conservative and they're all against

6:44

the CRT stuff, and they they they agree

6:46

with the things that I'm saying. So

6:48

I haven't had a lot of pushback in

6:50

the real world. Much of it comes

6:52

from comes online on

6:55

Twitter and Facebook and, you know, you get your

6:57

your social media lynch

7:00

mobs that that come after you for

7:02

having the wrong opinion. So get a lot of Uncle

7:05

Tom and and things like that.

7:07

So it's but,

7:09

you know, they they it comes with the territory.

7:11

When when you say when you say things that

7:13

are true, particularly

7:16

when it's shining a light on

7:18

the darkness of the of

7:20

the progressive left. And

7:22

then you're going to get pushed back and you're going

7:24

to get a lot of hate coming your

7:26

way. And that's just the nature of the beast.

7:28

Probably from some white Federalist

7:30

too. I would imagine. Oh, oh,

7:32

so that's that's actually a

7:34

great point because one

7:37

of the things I say is that that, like,

7:39

racism, throughout my life. I've

7:41

experienced racism from from time to

7:43

time, but the vast

7:45

majority of racism has come

7:47

from other black people as I was growing

7:49

up. And now, it's the

7:51

vast majority of racism that I experience

7:53

comes from white Liberals, and it's

7:55

not even close. It's not even close

7:57

because they think that they know better and

8:00

they they like, my position is

8:02

not the right position for a black man.

8:04

I I like, I'm portraying my

8:06

community or something, portraying my race

8:09

And so they let me know

8:10

that, and they let me know how disappointed

8:12

they are in me. And

8:15

because they want they want to be my they wanna

8:17

be a savior or whatever, but I I get

8:19

a lot of very racial

8:21

racially charged attacks from white labels

8:23

and that's very frequent. So it's kinda

8:25

interesting. No. That is really interesting.

8:28

I and brings me to what I I wanted to

8:30

unpack a little bit of the title of your book because there's

8:32

there's two really interesting things in it.

8:34

Yeah. Raising victims,

8:36

the pernicious rise of critical race

8:39

theory. So there have been

8:41

a lot of kind of independent black

8:43

thinkers or talk about Daniel

8:45

Patrick Moynihan and and all of

8:47

the people in this space. Paul Ryan

8:49

did work in this area with various

8:54

leaders in the black community. For

8:56

a long time, victimhood has

8:59

always been a target

9:01

of sort of conservative THOUGHT

9:04

AS THE WEALTH CARE STATE GRU, THERE

9:06

HAS BEEN A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE SCHOLERSHIP IN

9:08

THE

9:08

SPACE. YOU HAVE WONDERFUL WRITERS, THOMAS

9:10

SOL, JASON RYLE, WALTER WILLIAMS,

9:13

have

9:13

have talked about victimhood for a really long

9:15

time. You connected here to

9:18

critical race theory. And I actually don't

9:20

see a lot of people connecting that

9:22

old tradition of scholarship with

9:24

CRT. CRT gets taken

9:26

as something that's sort of new for a

9:28

lot of people because they may be they hadn't been to college

9:31

for the last ten years and had it sort

9:32

of dirt on their throat like

9:34

I did. But it's it's existed

9:36

for a long time. It's influenced, you know,

9:38

Liberals' decisions about welfare for a really

9:41

long time. Can you talk to us

9:43

about why it's essential to connect?

9:45

The concept, the philosophy of critical

9:47

race theory to Victorhood?

9:51

Yeah. Sure. Why I think I think the first

9:53

thing you have to do is you have to

9:55

understand what critical race theory actually

9:57

is. And a

9:59

lot of times, the definition of critical

10:01

race there can be nebulous because it's

10:04

a moving target whenever you

10:06

try to define it, the people who adhere

10:08

to it will say, no. No. No. You don't understand you

10:11

you don't even know what critical race there is. And

10:13

they they do that in in order to try to undermine

10:16

you. So they they kinda hide the ball a little bit.

10:18

But if you read the founder's

10:21

documents, if you if you read the

10:23

actual writings of the people who support

10:25

critical race theory, the common

10:28

thread that runs through it is that racism is

10:30

endemic in our society, that it's

10:32

all around us at all times, and that

10:35

is the natural order of the way

10:37

that our country operates. And then

10:39

you can even expand that to western cultures.

10:41

The natural order of the way that western

10:43

culture operates. So that means

10:45

that racism is imbibed in

10:47

the very foundations of our country

10:50

and our institutions and interwoven into

10:52

the very fabric of our society. And

10:54

so all interactions, everything

10:56

your normal everyday life can be

10:58

viewed through the lens of white supremacy and

11:01

racism. And that's how we get things like

11:03

five police officers and and five black

11:05

police officers and Memphis beating up a

11:07

black man is somehow indicative of

11:09

white supremacy. That's why because

11:12

they think that the entire system is

11:15

founded in white supremacy and everything

11:17

that happens, well, everything negative that happens,

11:19

is indicative of that. So

11:22

do people need to understand that concept? Because it

11:24

doesn't always make sense unless you understand

11:26

that sort of Marxist tradition

11:28

that that it comes from. And

11:30

so as far as the data hook goes, that

11:32

critical race theory is very much a

11:35

external locus of control ideology.

11:39

And pro progressivism as a whole

11:41

is very much an external locus of control

11:43

ideology. And what I

11:45

mean by that is that when you have an

11:47

external locus of control, you think

11:49

that everything that happens

11:51

to you or at least the vast majority

11:54

of the things that happen to you are due to

11:56

external circumstances are due to some

11:58

outside force acting

12:00

on you. And in this case, it would be white

12:02

supremacy. Why is the premise acting

12:04

on you and controlling your destiny,

12:07

so to speak? Whereas an internal locus of

12:09

control, you you feel like you

12:11

have the keys to your to your own destiny.

12:13

You can shape your own destiny. And

12:15

if that doesn't mean that you that either

12:18

things can't happen that are out of your control.

12:20

Like, the the person with the internal locus of

12:23

control recognizes that sometimes

12:25

things happen that you can't control,

12:27

but you can't control how

12:29

you respond to it. And that gives you empowerment.

12:32

That's That's empowering. And before

12:34

the American psychological association went,

12:36

whoa, they any psychologist worth

12:38

their salt would have told you that

12:41

the healthiest thing for an individual

12:43

to have is an internal locus of control.

12:45

And that external locus of control leads

12:47

to all kinds of psychological problems and

12:49

mental illnesses and all kinds of

12:53

negative outcomes. And so critical

12:55

race theory is particularly

12:57

when you're in you're infusing that into

12:59

children, is teaching them that

13:01

these external factors, the outside

13:04

system, is controlling them and

13:07

acting on them and causing their negative comes.

13:10

So you get a kid in Baltimore that fells

13:12

his class. It's not because he didn't

13:14

study. It's not because he didn't take notes

13:16

in class. It's not because he didn't care. And

13:18

didn't think or didn't show up or he was absent.

13:20

It's because of white supremacy. It's because

13:23

he was victimized by the history of

13:25

racism and slavery in this country.

13:27

So he's numbers responsible. And

13:29

he doesn't need to be responsible. It's these

13:31

people over here who should be held responsible. So,

13:34

yeah, I mean, I know do

13:36

we do elaborate too much

13:38

for you to for people to

13:40

recognize how detrimental that can lead

13:42

to a person's psyche. I mean,

13:45

you have no you feel like you have no agency,

13:47

you feel like you have no personal responsibility that

13:50

everybody is responsible for the bad things

13:52

that happen to you. So so why even

13:54

try? And that's the kind of things that we

13:56

see. It's it's so it's

13:58

it's toxic.

13:59

A lot of really good points there. And

14:02

you mentioned there's this kind of Marxism

14:04

baked into Critical Race Theory.

14:06

I wanted to ask you to elaborate on

14:09

that point. Where do you see that kind of

14:11

venn diagram between Marxism

14:13

and Critical Race Theory overlapping

14:16

or that's that's a terrible analogy actually

14:18

because one is kind of downstream of the

14:19

other. But -- Sure. -- how important do you

14:21

think

14:22

Marxism is to critical race theory?

14:24

Okay. So so critical race theory comes

14:26

directly from from Marxism. Like, you

14:28

said it's a downstream ideology

14:31

and just building off of it. So

14:34

the Frankfurt school in Frankfurt, Germany

14:36

built something called the critical theories.

14:39

And that was Neil Marxist in

14:41

in its in its origins. And

14:43

they were decidedly openly

14:47

Marxist about. And, you know, they were all about

14:49

reforming Marxism and and making

14:51

it work for for philosophy. Critical

14:54

legal theory came came later on,

14:57

and that was basically critical theory

14:59

applied to law, which Yeah.

15:01

It's again, it's this idea that

15:04

the whole system is involved with

15:06

with oppression and the

15:10

elites use it to to further

15:12

the audit to self perpetuate the

15:14

the oppression. And So they

15:16

also applied to critical legal theory, and then

15:19

critical race theory came from critical

15:21

legal theory. And if

15:24

you read the writings again, if you read

15:26

writings of the founders, they will admit openly

15:29

that they were all Marxist. That

15:31

the where the meeting where

15:33

the the term was coined,

15:35

critical race day, where Kimberly Trenshaw came

15:38

up with the term critical race theory.

15:40

Richard Delgado says, yeah,

15:43

it was a room full of Marxist sitting

15:45

there, talking about racism

15:47

and and critical theory. And

15:49

yeah. So they tell you explicitly that

15:52

they're marxist. So there's that element. But

15:54

if you if you look at if you look at a crack

15:56

particularly. I mean, you're just separating

15:59

your people into a proletariat and bourgeoisie

16:01

into victims and oppressors, and then pinning

16:03

those groups against each other. It's

16:06

operating the

16:09

idea of cultural hegemony, which comes

16:11

from Antonio Gamshi, who

16:14

is an Italian Marxist. And

16:17

it's that idea that the elite in power

16:20

create this status quo in order

16:22

to perpetuate their perpetuate their

16:24

power and basically impress people without their

16:26

knowledge. So it creates this invisible

16:29

system of oppression where it becomes the status

16:31

quo and the normal way that things

16:33

operate. You don't even know that you're oppressed and

16:35

you're basically oppressing yourself. And

16:38

so as the as these ideas

16:40

that that propagate And

16:43

so they have these these antagonistic

16:47

sort of attitudes toward western

16:50

culture, toward the constitution. Toward

16:52

free speech, toward enlightenment,

16:55

rationalism, toward neutral trans neutral

16:58

principles of constitutional law, and

17:00

it it sounds when

17:02

when I say these things, it sounds like

17:04

conspiracy theory. It sounds like I'm

17:06

I'm just, you know, like, high

17:09

purpline high purplizing and just,

17:11

yeah, just augmenting this this this

17:14

argument. But this is straight

17:16

from the source and state, like, if you read

17:18

critical race theory and introduction, they

17:20

say these things explicitly and

17:22

that they're that it all comes down to cultural

17:25

revolution, and that's what they're aiming to do.

17:27

And so it is decidedly Marxist

17:29

and origin, and it's it's Marxism

17:32

in its

17:32

application. The only different the only real

17:34

difference is that race is replacing

17:37

class here. Okay.

17:39

Yeah. That's a such an important point. And

17:41

you mentioned Crenshaw, and Grampsy, and

17:45

I wanna ask you, your book is called The Rise.

17:47

Of critical race theory uses word

17:49

the riser critical race theory. And before

17:51

I think critical race theory had entered

17:53

the mainstream become kind of a household

17:57

household fray is something people

17:59

recognized outside the kind of fringes of academia.

18:02

How do you think CRT influenced

18:06

American culture and American politics

18:08

when the left was sort of more quietly organizing

18:11

around that concept. You know,

18:13

for for years until it became

18:16

more central or more mainstream.

18:18

You know, it's an interesting thing because III

18:21

think it's I I think it's multiple

18:23

things. I think the the race thing, think the

18:25

gender thing is attached to it, and I think the

18:27

sexuality thing is attached to it. I

18:29

think it all goes together. And I think it has

18:31

has to do with

18:34

with cultural capture. And

18:36

you know, they what they've done, it's that and

18:39

one one of the arguments you'll hear is that, well,

18:41

critical race theory is only taught in law school. It's

18:43

not taught in public schools. And that

18:45

kind of gives away their hand because

18:47

what they've done throughout the years

18:50

is they've kind of

18:52

they they've sneakily snap these

18:54

ideas into multiple different

18:56

institutions and

18:58

put people in place where they

19:00

could influence the culture from

19:02

these institutions. And education is the

19:05

biggest one. People think it's not in education,

19:08

but teachers are being trained in the edicts

19:10

of critical race theory. In

19:12

the schools of education all around the country.

19:15

And so it makes no real sense to

19:17

believe that, you know, they're being trained

19:19

in critical race theory in college, but for

19:21

when they graduate and they go into K-twelve

19:24

schools to go teach, they're somehow

19:26

not taking those ideas with them into

19:28

the classroom. So it's

19:30

it's been a very clandestine effort

19:32

over the years, I think, to kinda shift the culture

19:35

and influence the different ways that

19:39

that people are being trained. And and, you know,

19:41

now people look around and it's it's

19:43

almost like a snap thing that's happened overnight.

19:45

Like, oh my gosh. Like, now that mentioned

19:47

earlier, the American psychological association is

19:50

woke. Like, what is happening? The American pediatric

19:52

association is woke. Why

19:55

why are these why are all these hospitals talking

19:57

about critical race theory. Why aren't all these corporations

19:59

incorporating critical race theory now? And,

20:02

like, it it seemed to happen overnight. Like, all these

20:04

things started to shift. And it's because,

20:06

like, all of this training and all of this

20:09

influencing was happening over on

20:11

behind the scenes and on under

20:14

the underneath the public consciousness. And

20:16

by the time the public became aware of it, it

20:18

was almost too late. Tell

20:21

us about the concept of of ethnic

20:23

nosticism that you talk about?

20:26

Yeah. So ethnic nosticism is a term that

20:28

was coined by the

20:31

embodied caution, the

20:33

theologian. And basically,

20:36

what it means is that there's

20:38

this sort of idea that

20:41

black people have lived as esoteric

20:43

existence that only they

20:45

can recognize and

20:48

feel racism, then define

20:50

racism and or oppression

20:52

in general. So a

20:55

white person trying to define what

20:57

racism is or what oppression is

20:59

would be undermined

21:02

by a black person who disagrees with them.

21:05

The black person gets the hierarchy because

21:07

they are the oppressed and they are

21:09

in a special position to define

21:11

and recognize oppression because of

21:13

their quote unquote lived

21:16

experience or their their personal

21:18

truth. And so it's this

21:20

special special card that

21:22

you get in order to

21:26

live this existence. Like, it becomes

21:28

almost, like I said, esoteric

21:30

sort of religious kind of thing where you're

21:33

elevated to this this

21:35

this plane of understanding and

21:38

consciousness that nobody else can

21:40

really understand unless you've

21:42

gone through that experience. As

21:45

a as a black person in America. And

21:48

and it's it's really just this

21:50

idea that you

21:53

know, black people only

21:56

are able to recognize races

21:58

and it controls the narrative so that nobody

22:00

can falsify it.

22:02

Like, then the theory can't be falsified. Like,

22:04

if I if I provide evidence that

22:06

that goes, like, hey. Like, look at these

22:08

statistics that show that that

22:11

white suspects are actually more likely to be

22:13

killed than black suspects. Then all they have to

22:15

do is say that that's not my lived experience.

22:18

And then the game is

22:20

over. And you have nothing. It gives nothing

22:22

else. So Oh, yeah. That's

22:24

I like, that that is such

22:27

a huge problem in

22:29

American politics and culture that everything

22:31

is filtered through the corporate

22:33

media and the corporate media will create narratives

22:35

that are totally divorced from reality

22:37

because they're influenced heavily

22:40

in this incentive structure by people

22:42

who whether they are conscious

22:44

of it or not are influenced by the

22:47

the kind of critical race theory school

22:49

of of thought. The and

22:51

sort of schools of thought that are adjacent to it.

22:54

We saw some of this on display over the course of the

22:56

last week when it came to Tyria Nichols. Wanted

22:58

to ask you, you mentioned a little bit early early night, but

23:00

I wanted to ask you to talk to us a little

23:02

bit about what you've seen over the course of the

23:04

last week as the public has reacted

23:06

to The video released,

23:08

the initial reports of what happened, and

23:11

Tyria Nichols' death, Van Jones

23:13

published an op ed for CNN. You probably

23:15

saw I think it said something like it doesn't

23:18

matter that the officers who beat

23:20

Tyria Nichols to death were black.

23:22

They could still have been influenced by why supremacy

23:24

or acting under the influence of

23:26

of white supremacy. Yeah.

23:29

What's your sort of take on everything that's

23:31

transpired over the course of the last week?

23:33

Well, yeah. It it it gets in time. Well, first

23:35

of all, I'll say that that what happened to Tyria

23:37

Nichols is traffic and off. And and

23:40

and you hope that

23:43

the that the justice system works

23:45

the way that it should and that there is justice

23:47

in that in that situation. I'm

23:50

not gonna speculate further about, you know,

23:52

all the facts because we don't know everything to

23:54

happen. The video was awful,

23:56

clearly. But you

23:58

know, you you hope that the the facts

24:01

come out and and then the the right

24:03

decision is made in court. But Beyond

24:06

that, as far as the reaction, you

24:08

know, it was it was pretty it was pretty predictable what

24:10

was going to happen, particularly

24:13

from the people who who

24:15

push the racial narratives on a regular basis,

24:18

basically their job to push racial narratives.

24:22

And Yeah. They they they came out and

24:24

they said, like, listen, this is we

24:26

know it only involved black people, but it's

24:28

still indicative of white supremacy. And

24:30

it's not the first time that they've done this.

24:33

They did it when black people were

24:35

when there was black suspects who were attacking

24:37

Asian Americans in California. They

24:40

did it when there were black suspects attacking

24:42

Jewish Americans in New York. They

24:45

did it with Kyle Rittenhouse. Like, it's

24:47

Kyle Rittenhouse. He keeps on

24:49

trial for shooting three white people.

24:51

And nothing to do with black people other than

24:53

happen to be ever black lives matter, riot,

24:56

rally, or riot. But

24:58

somehow, that had to do with white supremacy. So

25:01

so this is they they do this constantly. But,

25:04

again, you have to understand how they

25:06

view the world and how they view society

25:09

and it's that the entire system

25:12

is involved with white supremacy.

25:14

And so white supremacy can explain everything

25:17

if if you wanted to. However, you wanted whatever

25:20

you want the explanation to be why supremacy can

25:22

can stand in. One

25:24

one analogy that I use in the book or

25:27

allegory, I should say, came comes from

25:29

Ken Mnuchin, who who was an Australian

25:31

philosopher. And what he talked about was

25:35

is this Saint George, the dragon slayer

25:38

when he goes into retirement. And

25:40

Saint George was this prolific dragon slayer

25:43

who the town loved. He was this big

25:45

hero and, you know, everybody everybody

25:47

loved him and venerated him and he would go

25:49

around slaying dragons. And he would eventually

25:52

slay all the dragons in the land. And

25:54

then finally, he could go retire and rest

25:56

and take it easy. So he goes

25:58

and he he's sitting in his chair, he doesn't have anything

26:00

to do, he starts to have an identity

26:03

crisis, and he doesn't feel like he has

26:05

any purpose or or any reason

26:07

for living, and he doesn't know what to do, he

26:09

doesn't know who he is. But suddenly

26:11

he looks out of the window and miraculously,

26:14

he sees a dragon. So he's all excited.

26:16

He grabs his sword, his shield, runs outside,

26:19

slays the dragon, And

26:21

suddenly, he looks around and there's dragons

26:23

everywhere. There's dragons that there's dragons

26:25

that bark. There's dragons that quack. There

26:28

there's dragons that that even proclaim

26:30

themselves to be villagers. Right?

26:33

And there's there's dragons. And then then he

26:35

eventually seen just swinging his sword

26:37

it thin air and proclaiming it

26:39

to be the spirit as dragon of them all

26:41

or whatever. But it's it's

26:43

such a powerful allegory, I think, because it

26:46

speaks to the motivations of

26:48

a lot of these people who have rooted

26:50

their identities in slaying the

26:52

dragons of racism. And

26:55

So if there aren't any dragons to

26:57

slay, the only thing that

26:59

they can do in order to maintain that identity

27:01

into

27:02

yeah, get the either the

27:04

psychic benefits or the financial benefits

27:07

or or just the the social benefits from

27:09

it. The only thing they can do

27:11

is to create dragons, to fabricate them,

27:13

and see them where they don't exist. And

27:15

that's what happened. That's what's happening. Currently

27:18

with the Thiry Nichols case. That's what happened with

27:20

those other cases. And that's what happens almost

27:22

every time there's a police shooting. George Floyd,

27:24

same thing. There's still Not not

27:27

to this day. To this day, there's not a

27:29

lick of evidence that race had

27:31

anything to do with what happened George Floyd.

27:33

No matter how you feel about it either way,

27:35

there's no evidence that race had anything to do with

27:37

it, but yet we're supposed to believe that

27:40

it was a dragon of racism that

27:42

needed to be slain. And so this

27:44

is the it's the common

27:47

pattern of of of

27:50

of those who adhere to critical race theory.

27:52

To to constantly see racism

27:54

and white supremacy and everything. Mhmm.

27:57

You you write and talk about religion

27:59

a lot. And -- Yes. -- I wanted to

28:01

ask how critical

28:03

race theory has maybe become

28:06

falsely intertwined. Maybe that's

28:09

a way to phrase it. With

28:11

maybe the black church, with liberal

28:14

white protestants, with American kind

28:17

of faith traditions in have

28:22

different institutions, faith institution, faith

28:24

based institutions, wrongfully

28:26

sort of taken up the banner of CRT

28:28

in a detrimental way over the last several

28:31

decades. Howard Bauchner: We have one hundred

28:33

percent. There's there's lot of churches and

28:35

I I don't wanna generalize the church as or

28:38

or

28:38

even, like, certain demographics. But

28:42

there are a lot of churches in this country who

28:44

have taken on

28:47

either either, like, Black Lives

28:49

Matter and Critical Race Theory, Edicks,

28:52

or they've gone all out progressiveness, and

28:55

then they're even hanging rainbow

28:57

flags in their in their church malls. You

29:00

know, it is an interesting interesting

29:03

move for a for a church. But

29:06

as far as the race stuff goes, there are many

29:08

churches that have anti racism sort

29:12

of data drive, they

29:14

they have listing on their websites.

29:18

Anti races and Black Lives Matter, justice

29:21

for George Floyd, you know,

29:23

or sometimes all out critical race theory

29:25

in in how to fight

29:28

back against systemic racism. So

29:30

there are churches around this country who have

29:32

bought into this idea

29:35

that racism is the most pressing

29:37

problem for black individuals

29:40

or or non I should say non white

29:42

individuals in this country. And

29:44

that the country itself is is built

29:46

on a system of oppression. And,

29:48

yeah, there there's even some

29:51

more prominent Christian

29:53

intellectuals, I would say, like

29:55

Jimartisbee, who pushed

29:58

the idea that Christianity itself or

30:00

the or the Christian church itself

30:03

is built on white supremacy and that

30:05

it needs to be grappled with. So

30:07

these ideas having infiltrated the church

30:09

and it's very unfortunate. I I mentioned George

30:11

Floyd earlier. And even

30:13

after that, like, I go to a great church

30:15

and I love my church and there's

30:18

there's wonderful people there. But

30:20

after George Floyd, there

30:23

were some people

30:25

in my church who were just

30:28

beside themselves with anguish

30:30

and you know,

30:33

like, just, like, crying out and

30:35

and asking people to step

30:38

asking with the white members of our church,

30:40

to stand up and help black people

30:42

because black people are being murdered in the streets.

30:45

It's a it was so the

30:47

emotional the

30:50

emotional appeal of of the

30:53

narrative was so powerful that

30:56

and and I had never seen anything like that. From

30:58

from the people in my church. So it was shocking.

31:00

It was very jarring for me. So but

31:02

it it gives insight to how how

31:04

powerful the narrative can be and how susceptible

31:07

people can be to it. There

31:10

doesn't need to be any evidence. There doesn't need to

31:12

be any facts that support it. The

31:14

emotional aspects of it

31:16

are enough. It it it's psychological and

31:19

spiritual warfare, and that's that's how I said

31:21

it at the time. It really gets into people's

31:23

minds and manipulates them and,

31:25

you know, makes them think things that just aren't

31:27

true. And it's it's an incredible thing and

31:29

it's it's very disheartening to

31:32

see that happen in the church. Why don't you know,

31:34

this this hardening to see it happen in

31:36

society, but let them own the

31:37

church. Howard Bauchner: Why

31:40

is critical race theory? I know

31:42

I I agree with you on this question. But if someone,

31:44

you know, maybe on the left or probably somebody in the

31:46

center would be more likely ask you this question,

31:48

why is critical race theory incompatible

31:52

with Christianity.

31:53

How would you respond to that? I

31:56

I would because it creates race as an idol.

31:58

And it lifts race up as being

32:00

the most important thing in a person's

32:03

identity. And it makes the

32:06

most important aspects of a person.

32:09

As far as, like, judging person, who a person

32:11

is and what they're it makes value judgments

32:13

about a person based on their race, based on

32:16

who they are based on their skin color. Right?

32:18

And that is the antithesis of the

32:20

gospel. You know, critical race

32:23

theory itself is and

32:25

I've said this many times critical race theory itself

32:27

is a religion. It's it's it's it

32:29

has it has its

32:32

priests and passed down the holy

32:33

dogma. It has it has its holy texts.

32:35

So the John

32:36

McQuorter yeah. The the John McQuorter

32:39

formulation. Yeah. Right.

32:42

The the, yeah, the the

32:45

the inquisitors who go down the

32:47

heretics and honestly, honestly,

32:49

I mean, it has everything. It it it

32:51

has every aspect of idea.

32:54

I I need to say religion. It has every aspect

32:56

of an extremist religion. It's it's

32:59

very much religious in in its

33:01

application and its ideology. So

33:04

if you're going to now

33:06

as a Christian, I I should say this because

33:08

as a Christian or as a religious individual,

33:12

injustice is something that

33:14

you want to fight against. I mean,

33:16

that so that part was what makes

33:18

people susceptible to it, I think, is

33:20

that they want be compassionate, and they want

33:22

to be empathetic, and they want

33:24

to they want to fight against

33:27

injustice, and they fight against real racism,

33:29

and those are admirable things. But

33:32

they don't recognize that

33:34

the religion of CRT goes much,

33:36

much deeper than simply fighting

33:39

against racism. But fighting against racism

33:41

is a smokescreen to

33:44

impose, you know, to basically institute

33:46

cultural revolution is the only

33:49

the logical endpoint of critical race there,

33:51

if you believe that the entire system

33:54

if the the entirety of our foundation

33:56

of our country is imbibed with white supremacy

33:59

and intertwined to the point where

34:02

it's everywhere at all times.

34:04

If you truly believe that, then

34:06

the logical solution is

34:08

to tear everything down and start over.

34:11

It's very malice in its application

34:13

on Again,

34:15

we we come back to communism, Marxism.

34:19

But now in in communist China,

34:23

during the Chinese culture revolution

34:26

said that in order to build a

34:28

new social system on the site of the own,

34:30

the old site must be swept

34:32

clean. And that's the kind of ideology that

34:34

critical race theory carries with it.

34:37

So if you're going

34:39

to embrace Christianity and

34:41

the gospel, you cannot support

34:44

the gods of critical race theory. You

34:46

have to choose which God you're going to serve.

34:49

There's been it it has seemed like

34:51

there there has been a a

34:53

flurry of interest in

34:56

thinkers like yourself. You

34:58

know, Kanye West had a brief moment

35:00

before everything went off the rails -- Yeah.

35:02

-- where he seemed to have,

35:04

like, really made inroads and

35:06

kinda interesting, traditionalistic interpretations

35:09

of of Christianity are with those

35:11

interpretations, and then kind

35:13

of extending them into politics as

35:15

well. We start trying to make a slight

35:18

dent in the black vote.

35:20

Just wanted to ask Leonidas, as you're you've

35:22

taken up this cause more publicly,

35:26

do you find that it is empowering

35:28

for people when you explain

35:31

sort of the roots of all of this? And

35:33

do you think, you know, there there's any

35:35

kind of sea change on the horizon? Are

35:37

things sort of opening up as the

35:40

the old guard and media loses its power

35:42

and and new independent with pendant point voices

35:44

like yourself are able to have podcasts

35:47

and

35:47

substacks. Is something changing? I

35:50

think so. Absolutely. I I think

35:53

you're anytime you you shine a light

35:55

on what's going on, the

35:58

the needle moves a little bit. As

36:00

the only way this ideology is success school

36:03

is if people don't recognize what's actually

36:05

happening because it rerelies

36:07

so much from manipulation. And

36:10

deception. Though, like, in

36:13

Black Lives Matter is a great example of that.

36:15

There's, you know, one thing I

36:17

talked about in the book is how they they

36:19

manipulate language in order to get people

36:21

people to support what they're

36:23

doing. And in order to slide in this more nefarious

36:26

ideology, And Black

36:28

Lives Matter is a good good example of that

36:30

because who is going to disagree with the phrase

36:32

Black Lives Matter. You know, nobody's

36:34

going to disagree with that. So

36:37

everybody's gonna feel like they need to support

36:39

it. And I hate

36:41

hate to keep talking about George Floyd, but you

36:43

know, right after that happened, I

36:46

so many people were bullied

36:48

essentially into posting black squares on

36:50

their

36:50

Instagram. I don't know if you remember that. Oh, yeah.

36:52

But like so but

36:55

people felt like they had to do that

36:58

or else they would be labeled

37:00

as a racist they will be labeled as someone

37:02

who thinks that black lives don't matter or

37:05

whatever. So their

37:07

their sense of compassion and their sense

37:09

of empathy is being manipulated. And the only

37:11

way the ideology is going to work is if

37:13

people are not wise to what's going

37:15

on behind the scenes, the more nefarious

37:18

aspects of Black Lives Matter, which is

37:20

essentially the critical race theory elements

37:22

and, you know, the anti nuclear family

37:25

and and of course, the Marxism. But,

37:29

you know, so when people become aware of that, and then,

37:31

of course, there's strength in numbers. So the more people that

37:33

are speaking out about it, the more people that are

37:35

being bold about standing up,

37:37

and we saw that at school board meetings all over

37:39

the country, the more people that stood up

37:41

and yelled at, the school board members, the

37:43

more people that came to the mic afterward. It

37:46

takes that one brain. And, you know, it

37:48

reminds me of a video There

37:50

was AII think it was a fair, and

37:53

there was a ride that was starting to collapse.

37:56

And it was, like, it wasn't a huge ride,

37:58

but it was a it would I mean, it would hurt the people

38:00

on it. And well and then,

38:02

you know, everybody was kinda just standing around and watching

38:04

this ride start to tip over. And

38:06

one guy ran up and

38:09

held it, you know, or tried to hold it.

38:11

And then after he did that, then

38:13

all of a sudden, there's, like, five six

38:15

and seven, and then there's a whole

38:17

crowd of people coming up and holding it. But

38:19

it took that one guy stepping out

38:21

before anybody did anything. Before

38:23

anybody had the courage to to do it.

38:25

And sometimes that's what it takes. It it just it

38:28

it takes more and more people to stand up and

38:30

say, no. We're not gonna go along with this.

38:32

And and then more and

38:34

more people step

38:35

up. And one of the ways I win

38:37

and I'm sorry. I don't wanna be too long winded

38:39

here, but

38:42

one of the ways that I end the book is that

38:45

I I talk about, you know, moving into a post

38:47

racial society and and and then

38:49

place where we are truly color blind.

38:52

And by the way, that doesn't mean that we don't see

38:54

color. It just means that, you know, is Dr.

38:57

King's dream that we treat color

38:59

as inconsequential to a person's

39:01

identity. But in order to

39:03

move to that society, it could take

39:05

generations to do that. It it may not

39:07

happen in this generation. It may be

39:10

AAA slow process. But

39:13

it's the age old problem that in

39:15

a society grows great when old men

39:18

plant trees under whose shade

39:20

they know they may never sit. So

39:23

I hope we plant the trees and we start

39:25

that paradigm shift and continue

39:27

to move

39:29

move forward toward the toward the right

39:31

way to eradicate racism for good?

39:33

The hook is called raising victims, the

39:35

pernicious rise of critical race theory.

39:38

It's out on February seventh Leonidas

39:40

Johnson is its author. He has podcast

39:43

called informed descent and a subset

39:45

called informed descent as well.

39:47

Thank

39:47

you, Leonidas so much for joining us today.

39:49

Thank you, Emily. Really appreciate you. Of

39:52

course, you have been listening to another edition

39:54

of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily

39:56

Jucinski, culture editor here at The Federalist.

39:58

We'll be back soon with more. Until then

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