0:01

There's a lot of foods that actually impair

0:03

our health defenses, our circulation, our stem cells,

0:05

our healthy gut microbiome, the ability for our

0:07

DNA to protect our bodies from the environment

0:10

and also our immune system. Your body can't

0:12

handle some of those foods that we have

0:14

gotten used to eating. Hey

0:16

guys, how you doing? Hope you're having

0:18

a good wheat so far. My name

0:21

is Dr. Rongan Chatterjee and this is

0:23

my podcast, Feel Better,

0:25

Live More. His

0:29

guest passionately believes that the decisions

0:31

we make every day about what

0:33

we eat have a huge influence

0:35

on our overall health. Dr.

0:38

William Lee is a medical

0:40

doctor, internal medicine specialist, research

0:42

scientist, and the author of

0:45

two international bestsellers, Eat

0:47

to Beat Disease and Eat to

0:49

Beat Your Diet. He works in

0:51

a field of research called Food as Medicine

0:54

and having been involved with the

0:56

development of many different drugs over

0:58

the past few decades. He's passionate

1:00

about using scientific rigor to

1:03

analyze the specific benefits of food.

1:06

Now, Dr. Lee has been a guest on

1:08

my podcast on two previous occasions, episodes 234

1:10

and 376,

1:13

and those episodes remain some of the most

1:15

downloaded in the history of my show. Today's

1:19

brand new episode was actually a conversation

1:21

Dr. Lee and I recorded together around

1:23

two years ago, but I can

1:25

assure you that the content within it is

1:28

just as relevant today. Now,

1:30

in this particular conversation, I wanted to

1:32

cover a broad range of food related

1:34

topics that people often find

1:37

confusing with the intention of

1:39

providing more clarity. We

1:41

start off talking about the foods we might want

1:43

to consider cutting back on due to

1:45

their negative effects on our health. We

1:47

talk about sugar, artificial

1:50

sweeteners, ultra-processed foods, alcohol,

1:52

and the problems with

1:54

reusing oil when frying.

1:56

We also talk about the practical steps we

1:59

can all take in mind. immediately when

2:01

it comes to choosing foods that will

2:03

enhance both our short-term

2:05

and long-term health. We

2:07

honestly do cover so many different

2:10

topics today including how

2:12

exactly we can go about choosing a

2:14

good quality olive oil, the

2:16

benefits of pairing certain foods

2:18

together to increase nutrient absorption,

2:21

how we can increase the amount

2:24

of vitamin D in mushrooms, why

2:26

exactly organic foods are healthier, how

2:28

to best read food labels, the link

2:31

between the foods we consume and autoimmune

2:33

disease, both of our collective views on

2:35

supplements and so much more. Dr.

2:38

Lee really is someone who wants joy to

2:40

be at the heart of how we think

2:42

about our food choices and our health. He's

2:46

knowledgeable, passionate and a

2:48

wonderful communicator. I always

2:50

enjoy my conversations with him. I

2:52

hope you enjoy listening. I

2:58

think one of the greatest things about food and

3:01

food and health is that it actually

3:03

puts the agency of choice into our

3:05

own individual hands. We make our own

3:08

choices. One of the interesting things that

3:10

is very clear is our

3:12

body's health defenses, the five of them

3:14

we talked about last time, our circulation,

3:16

our stem cells, our healthy gut microbiome,

3:19

the ability for our DNA to protect

3:21

ourselves, our bodies from the environment and

3:23

also our immune system. These systems,

3:26

for us to reach our health

3:28

potential, we want to make

3:30

sure that they are not squashed inadvertently

3:33

by foods that we have gotten used

3:35

to eating. Let's talk a little about

3:38

some of those foods that actually impair

3:40

our health defenses. That's probably the best

3:42

way of thinking about what to avoid.

3:45

Now, we know that added

3:48

sugar is something that

3:50

is very, that taxes the

3:52

body's metabolism. So if you

3:54

have a little bit of sugar in fruit from natural

3:56

sugars, that's fine because you're getting a lot of other

3:58

stuff. Weldon fact help

4:01

your metabolism and helps your body's

4:03

ability to be able to digest

4:05

to metabolize. Have chosen Glucose and

4:07

you said fuel into your body.

4:10

but if you drink soda. In.

4:12

Our to have those ten teaspoons of

4:14

refined sugar that are dissolved in visibly

4:16

in whatever colored fluid and we may

4:19

be drinking. It tastes great. courses your

4:21

thirst. a kind of or mental blueprints

4:23

is that near this is something you

4:25

used to sleep your thirst and a

4:27

hot summer day and I can tell

4:29

you that the hyperglycemia state your body

4:32

can handle ten teaspoons of sugar the

4:34

same time. and think about you know

4:36

the people that shug and entire can

4:38

of soda right? I mean I dunno

4:40

myself, there's no way that's good. For

4:42

us as that overwhelms. A

4:45

lot of our systems it overwhelms or stem

4:47

cells are some some can not adequately function

4:49

properly, function to help us regenerate when there's

4:51

too much sugar around. You know sugar is

4:53

is a concentrated material is a so he.

4:55

It's meaning that is dissolved in water. and

4:58

when there's a lot of things I'm sick

5:00

about we're in a swimming pool or your

5:02

and in a word or if you're swimming

5:04

in the ocean for long periods on what

5:06

happens the water gets pulled out your skin

5:08

or even and avast of your your skin

5:11

gets wrinkly because use sucked out all the

5:13

all the water. Unless basically what happens. To

5:15

these cells in a high sugar

5:17

environment your blood cells I would

5:19

say added sugar with sodas there

5:21

are so popular. that is something

5:23

that sits on your health defense

5:25

systems. Too much sugar. Also, Literally

5:28

damages the ecosystem. You've heard

5:30

gut microbiome which is connected

5:32

to your immunity an unhappy.

5:35

unhappy muni you know we all want as

5:37

to be as a strong immune illogically as

5:39

possible and then by the way less kind

5:41

of am just take one step over to

5:43

the kissing doesn't have regular soda which is

5:46

diet soda right so here's a thing i

5:48

just told you you know we might want

5:50

to cut down or cut our regular soda

5:52

so what do people on the say they

5:54

say what don't worry doctor lee we discover

5:57

to the dice are no worries entrance a

5:59

diversion and much better for my metabolism.

6:01

Well, science tells us it's not true.

6:04

And the irony is that people who drink a lot

6:06

of diet soda with the purpose

6:08

of not getting a lot of carbs from

6:11

refined sugar actually still gain

6:13

weight. This is a

6:15

kind of a paradox that now makes

6:17

sense because scientists have figured out that

6:19

many of the artificial sweeteners used in

6:21

diet sodas actually harm our

6:24

gut microbiome. And so when you're drinking

6:26

that soda and that auto-versus sweetener, you

6:28

get that sugar hit on your tongue

6:30

to go to your brain. Man, it's

6:32

pretty sweet. But all those

6:34

chemicals go down your gut and they're feeding

6:37

our gut bacteria. And the gut bacteria really

6:39

don't like these synthetic compounds,

6:42

these artificial sweeteners. And so they

6:44

revolt. And as they're revolting, they're

6:46

actually literally drowning in these artificial

6:48

sweeteners. And that is

6:50

bad enough because our gut

6:53

bacteria actually helps to lower inflammation.

6:55

But our gut bacteria also controls

6:57

metabolism, our insulin sensitivity. So when

6:59

that gets upset, guess what? Our

7:02

actual blood sugars raise and

7:05

we actually have poorer metabolism of our

7:07

energy and we actually start to gain

7:09

weight anyway. So that's kind of just

7:12

two examples, but there's a lot of other

7:15

foods that we might wanna be careful about.

7:17

Can you just explain that term metabolism because

7:19

it's something that I think the public hear

7:21

a lot, but I think

7:23

it's not always that well understood. Glad

7:26

you're asking that question. Here's what I will tell

7:28

you because I'm actually working on a project now

7:30

on metabolism. Metabolism isn't that well

7:33

understood by doctors either. And it's actually

7:35

not even that well understood by

7:37

scientists. And that's part of

7:39

the mystery of the human body. That

7:41

gigantic question mark, what is our metabolism?

7:43

So here we are thinking

7:46

about metabolism, I think classically as

7:48

energy. Our

7:50

metabolism is, these are some assumptions.

7:52

Our metabolism is something we're born

7:54

with. I have

7:56

a lot of body fat, so I got

7:59

the unlucky straw. The Family Tonight's. Logo.

8:01

My sister, She's skinny as a steak.

8:03

She's lucky she inherited the same gene

8:06

for her metabolism, right? So that's one

8:08

assumption that we make a bomb metabolism.

8:10

and that in furs. and as wrong.

8:12

By the way, I'm a bit that

8:15

infer said our body's metabolism is the

8:17

machinery that's used to take energy that

8:19

we put into our body. that are

8:22

food. The weeds. Our body processes that

8:24

energy in order to be able to

8:26

load up on fuel. And

8:28

then a how our body takes

8:30

as fuel in the fuel tanks

8:33

like filling the gas tank with

8:35

petrol and then actually uses as

8:37

he was. We get on the

8:39

highway and drive as funding for

8:41

X. Okay, but what we're really

8:43

beginning to realize is the metabolism?

8:45

A lot more complicated than that

8:47

because is connected to our immune

8:49

system is connected to our information

8:51

is connected to our ability to

8:53

actually maintain our health in the

8:55

sense that body side is not

8:57

necessarily bad. It's actually really

8:59

good, and so many the assumptions of

9:01

metabolism, energy, and all the negative aspects

9:03

of it. And when an athlete has

9:05

got his you know, who's in his

9:08

top shape is that great metabolism whereas

9:10

somebody who actually is obese is terrible

9:12

metabolism. Not not as simple as we

9:14

thought. Yeah, thank you for

9:16

that. I think that's that's really,

9:18

really helpful. Seven Sense of. Categories.

9:22

And types of foods that we to

9:24

think about limit sing or avoiding. The

9:26

first thing you went see was those

9:28

drinks with added sugar soft drinks fizzy

9:31

drink soda. How you know when whatever

9:33

country you're in however you like refer

9:35

to it's I hope is certainly well

9:37

known that at least those things are

9:39

damaging for our health are immune system

9:42

or teeth and you be so explained

9:44

why. That says now before we go

9:46

to diet drinks I'm really glad you

9:48

brought that up. Full

9:51

of sugar. Fizzy. Drinks.

9:53

Is. It just the sugar. That's.

9:56

Causing problems because it overwhelms our

9:58

system and we can't process. Or.

10:02

Is it something else? Is that the sugar

10:04

and the chemicals in the input they have

10:06

on other aspects of our bodies health and

10:08

potentially posts five defense systems that you britain

10:11

Beasley about in your books? What's going on?

10:13

It Is it just the sugar or is

10:15

it something out? Yeah. The soft

10:17

drinks, the sodas and we see so

10:19

commonly around as as part of everyday

10:22

modern life you know for the last

10:24

hundred years or so it's interesting that

10:26

the history of sodas really fascinating. It

10:28

dates back into Europe where our people

10:31

are trying to find additional ways to

10:33

be as surprised and delighted by beverages

10:35

right so that additional drinks are always

10:38

tea or coffee. of course the most

10:40

popular beverage war was just drinking water

10:42

and the most important when I say

10:44

as well as he and coffee falling.

10:47

Close behind. And then there's a wine

10:49

right? I mean these were for thousands

10:51

of years sort of the The Elixir

10:53

East So to speak of, our beverages

10:56

and carbonation was actually added to purchase

10:58

first. it was a mistake I think

11:00

that was made when they invented it.

11:02

Potentially it became something to delights folks

11:05

you know, kind of like and as

11:07

you go to a carnival in L

11:09

and and you season spectacle that actually

11:11

assists and we walked by. Music on

11:14

my gosh, that's so unusual that's delightful.

11:16

That's how. Sodas were actually am I

11:18

a breaker then once actually the day

11:20

big industries came in and turn it

11:22

into a marketing buzz it started to

11:24

take on a life of it's own

11:26

and his was worth. went from Food

11:28

Juices that actually has some carbonation which

11:30

is just ask you know C O

11:32

two and that's okay. But

11:34

what warmed up happening is that he

11:36

started to have less fruit but they

11:38

have figured out how to put chemical

11:41

flavorings that actually mimic the for flavored.

11:43

and then of course nobody really wants

11:45

to have just a plain lottery looking

11:47

carbonated drinks to. Then he started an

11:49

artificial coloring and then he started add

11:51

preservatives. And this goes to the importance

11:53

of reading a label. Whenever I actually

11:55

pick up something to drink you know

11:57

from a store, a grocery store. I.

12:00

You know, I I I'm an explorer

12:02

so I love to actually try new

12:04

things of I saw a drink in

12:06

a store that seemed appealing or tractor

12:08

intrigue treating me. I might pick it

12:10

up. But the first thing I

12:12

do as I take a look at the label, what

12:14

is ending right so should be mostly water. So.

12:16

I look for that and then most

12:18

many people don't know this. but the

12:21

order in which the ingredients appear on

12:23

a label at least in the United

12:25

States is am this is synonymous with

12:28

their relative concentration of the drink. And

12:30

so what you want to do is

12:32

it's usually water and then it's sugar

12:34

or it. So we just talked about

12:37

that's or artificial sweetener and then you

12:39

start seeing the other things behind it

12:41

and I think most people be astounded

12:44

and am disappointed rightfully so, that natural

12:46

fruit. Juice is usually pretty low

12:48

on the list of. Men

12:51

are twenty greediest and so if

12:53

you're creeped out, By

12:55

not being able to

12:57

pronounce understand, identify. The

13:00

ingredients on on. silent on a beverage.

13:03

Your. You should follow your instincts. That's

13:05

probably not something you want to put

13:07

your body because your body's not hard

13:09

wired to handle those chemicals. Yeah, I've

13:11

asked her advice, something I used to

13:13

my patience to swell people say there's

13:15

always exceptions. Yeah, there are exceptions, but

13:17

as a general principle when look an

13:19

ingredient labels I I completely echo that

13:21

he don't recognize that he right Maybe

13:23

give it a mess and she's something

13:25

else. Instead he was mentioned Marcus and

13:28

that's when you're talking about fizzy drinks

13:30

and that will be is that with

13:32

fighting in? Are you a. Sauna promotes

13:34

all this incredible colorful food.

13:36

but what with fight thing

13:39

is this marketing machine and

13:41

empathically arounds. I. Guess soft

13:43

drinks and fizzy drinks and so does.

13:46

It's it's really tragic to see. Sports.

13:50

stars who looks up to buy children yeah

13:52

you semi have seen us and uk for

13:54

many years he see this in a big

13:56

way in india wide like the big cricket

13:59

star the of and sponsored and I've

14:01

seen drinking a can of soda. And

14:03

actually I think this is

14:06

one of the big problems we're up against

14:08

because that just infuses into these young kids'

14:10

minds that actually I want to be like

14:12

that person. Oh, they're drinking that drink?

14:14

Oh, I want to drink that and be like

14:16

them. How much of a

14:19

problem do you think marketing is? You

14:21

know, sponsorship, product placement, commercial deals. Is

14:24

that something we need to be fighting against? I

14:27

think that we all have the

14:29

freedom most of us to make

14:32

our own choices and I try

14:34

to think about any argument such

14:36

as one we're discussing now from both sides of

14:38

the coin. If you run a company and your

14:40

vendor company is making a product, your job is

14:43

to market it, whether it's a soda or whether

14:45

it's a tennis shoe or whether it's a wristwatch,

14:47

right? On one hand, I don't blame companies for

14:49

actually doing marketing and the ones that actually do

14:52

it really well. Hey, you know

14:54

what? That's their job. Okay. On the other hand,

14:56

I think that the fight that we're actually having

14:58

is not really against the company.

15:01

The fight is really against the

15:03

inertia that many of

15:05

us have in the community to

15:08

do our homework on and

15:10

to get back in touch with our body because

15:12

I think that if we actually, you know,

15:15

took a look at the mirror and started to

15:17

reacquaint ourselves with what our body is

15:20

telling us. I mean, you know, look,

15:22

here's how I think about it. You

15:24

get up in the morning, you take a shower, you step

15:27

out of the shower, you're going to see the mirror. You

15:29

look in that mirror. Most people aren't that happy. Most

15:31

people are not that happy with what you see.

15:33

They can always find something wrong with themselves, you know,

15:35

and then you might step on a scale

15:38

and you might not like that number. Okay. And

15:40

then you're like, those are the few

15:42

moments of clarity in the day where you might

15:44

actually be thinking about yourself. And then we get

15:46

dressed and we go off and we're just swept

15:48

up with the rest of our

15:50

lives, whether it's our jobs, whether it's our

15:53

families, whether it's other responsibilities. And

15:55

we leave ourselves behind. Oftentimes

15:57

we deprioritize. what

16:00

our body needs. And I think that

16:02

one of the things the inertia we're fighting against

16:04

is actually all those other distractions in our life.

16:07

I actually think that you know, one of the things that

16:09

we could do to teach children, and one of

16:11

the things we could do to teach young parents, one

16:13

of the things we could do to help teachers,

16:16

whether it's grade school, high school or

16:18

college or beyond, is to really

16:20

reemphasize the fact that we all need to be in

16:22

touch with our bodies, we need to know ourselves first,

16:25

knowing yourself first allows you to

16:28

then discern whether or

16:30

not a message that you're seeing on television,

16:32

or being promoted by a sports star, or

16:34

whether something that is being marketed to you

16:36

in a grocery store is something that you

16:39

want to partake in. Right. And

16:41

so I think that, yes, we

16:43

should be vigilant. And

16:46

we should enact policies that

16:49

prevents predatory marketing practices to

16:51

people that are uninformed and

16:54

are highly vulnerable, like

16:56

marketing to children, you know, with

16:58

certain ads like that, I think that's, that is

17:00

something that works. And therefore, it's something that really

17:02

we need to we do need to actually push

17:05

back against. But on the other

17:07

hand, you know, I think companies are just doing

17:09

their job, I think that we have our own

17:11

decision, we need to push back

17:13

on the predatory practices of

17:15

companies that are preying on the

17:18

vulnerable. And we also need to be able to

17:20

lift up the consumers so that

17:22

they are smarter, wiser, more in touch

17:24

with themselves, and then they actually can

17:27

discern what they should be ordering, or

17:30

buying that can actually help themselves.

17:32

Yeah, I really appreciate that nuanced

17:36

answer, looking at it from both sides. You

17:39

mentioned sugar and these

17:42

soda drinks that we

17:45

know it certainly even small

17:47

amounts consumed regularly can be quite damaging for

17:49

our health. And then

17:51

you went to artificial sweeteners in these

17:53

diet drinks. Now I

17:55

share the same perspective as you do on this,

17:58

but it does appear to be a a

18:00

very divisive topic with

18:03

the public. But even within science and

18:05

within medicine, this whole topic of whether

18:07

artificial sweeteners are good, bad,

18:09

or neutral seems to get a lot

18:12

of people's backs up. I know Professor

18:14

Tim Spekter, who has

18:16

been on the show before, and he's pretty

18:18

clear as well that we should be avoiding

18:20

them. You seem to be pretty clear on

18:22

that. I certainly take the precautionary principle with

18:24

my patients to say, listen, that I've seen

18:26

enough data that suggests having a negative impact

18:29

on the gut microbiome. So I would prefer

18:31

to take that precautionary approach and say, let's

18:33

try something else. What is your view on

18:35

that? And why do you think it's such

18:37

a divisive topic? Well,

18:40

first of all, every kid

18:42

loves candy, right? Me

18:44

as well. I remember when I

18:47

was a child in the US,

18:49

in Halloween, and who

18:51

didn't look forward to collecting all the

18:53

candy from the neighbors. And

18:55

I think that sugars, the candies,

18:58

they're delightful, and there's nothing wrong with being

19:01

delighted. And I think we carry with us

19:03

lots of pleasant, fun memories. I think brains

19:05

also hardwired to actually go after sweet things,

19:07

right? I mean, it's part of our instinct

19:10

as animals say, just like

19:12

the lion on the

19:14

savanna goes after the antelope, I think humans

19:17

in the street go after candy. It's one

19:19

of those things that just, we're

19:21

hardwired to go after sugar. I think

19:23

there are industrial interests that actually pose counter

19:26

arguments to

19:28

the harm of sugars and artificial sweeteners. And by

19:30

the way, I do wanna actually bring this up

19:32

because I think it's important. Let's

19:34

not character assassinate categories. I think

19:37

that's really important. So artificial sweeteners,

19:40

let's be specific. What I

19:42

was referring to are things that are

19:44

not refined sugars, the powdery white stuff

19:46

that you would buy in a supermarket.

19:48

The artificial sweeteners are the ones that

19:51

are chemically synthesized, not natural, That

19:53

actually have been designed to

19:55

activate the sugar receptors on

19:58

your tongue and mimic. Sweetness,

20:00

right? Okay then there's many different kinds.

20:02

And so I think that if anybody

20:04

want to go to Google and look

20:06

up categories of artificial sweeteners, you'll start

20:08

seeing. This is not one

20:10

of product is a many different types

20:13

some people could consider artificial sweeteners. Stelvio.

20:15

Now. Savvy. It's a natural sweetener, but it's

20:17

still artificial when you compare to refined sugar

20:19

and so and what about them? You know

20:21

like some people use monk for which is

20:23

also a natural sweetener. With this is the

20:25

same thing as refined sugar. it also activate

20:28

your sugar taste buds, it's more natural. and

20:30

then what about as far tame in circles?

20:32

And what about all those some other than

20:34

a chemical names that he can't pronounce and

20:36

so I think. As as

20:38

we're talking about this now we need

20:40

to say. Categorically,

20:42

you know I think

20:44

I'm access. Natural. Sugars

20:47

in product form added to food is

20:49

the added sugars and tend to be

20:51

unhealthy if you over consume that and

20:53

so does is just one of many

20:56

examples with the lots of added sugar.

20:58

Artificial sweeteners is not one category as

21:00

a lot of different types of things

21:02

that that are used in place of

21:05

refined sugar and when I would say

21:07

to be a savvy consumer you know

21:09

I'm just know that there are more

21:11

natural versions of those and instead he

21:14

is fine. However, there are several yeah.

21:16

That actually are not really all stereo. You

21:19

pick up the package, a look at the

21:21

angriest new funny. when those says Cvs you'll

21:23

can ingredients, You actually see that there are

21:25

other things that are added to it we

21:27

cannot forget. When you buy out for processed

21:30

food and a package stuff has been added

21:32

to it almost certainly has been to preserve

21:34

it on the shelf. That may or may

21:36

not be the few and one of the

21:38

big events we have right now. Every one

21:41

of us carries around one of these a

21:43

mobile phone. On this of you don't recognize

21:45

something and you're. Curious, go ahead and type

21:47

it in and searched that chemical does to

21:49

learn something about it's that could actually make

21:51

a difference between whether you put it in

21:53

your card or not. He.

21:55

I love the very empowering. Way.

21:58

of looking at best her put the information

22:00

the consumer's hand and say, right, you start

22:02

as much as possible to make these better

22:04

decisions because you know that this one's going

22:06

to lead to health. This one's probably going

22:08

to not promote my health over a period

22:10

of time. I mean, look

22:12

at what happens when we sit down at a restaurant, right?

22:16

You open a menu and the waiter comes

22:18

over and says, do you have any questions?

22:21

And so all of us have done this. You

22:23

pick one that kind of seems interesting to you

22:25

and you ask, what's the official ask? You ask

22:27

the waiter, hey, what's in this? All

22:30

right, what's in this dish? And they tell you

22:32

and on the basis of the information that you

22:34

asked for as a consumer for

22:36

on food that you're about to purchase and eat,

22:39

you might say, oh, well, that sounds pretty good. I'll

22:41

have it. Or you might say, you

22:44

know, that doesn't sound so great to me. I think

22:46

I'll choose something else. And I think that that the

22:48

power, you know, the power is in the pocket of

22:51

the consumer. And it's our

22:53

money, our resources that we're spending.

22:55

And by the way, I mean, you can see this

22:58

now with, you know, global and the geopolitical events that

23:00

are happening. If we choose

23:02

not to support something, it can have

23:04

a powerful impact. And that impact actually

23:06

comes from our pocketbooks. Yeah. Apart from

23:08

these drinks that we've covered so far,

23:11

any other sorts of foods that we

23:13

should generally try and avoid, let's say

23:15

when we're in the grocery store or

23:17

the supermarket, anything we should think

23:19

about? Just

23:26

taking a quick break to give a

23:29

shout out to AG1, one of the

23:31

sponsors of today's show, who have just

23:33

launched a new limited time offer for

23:35

my listeners. Nutrition, as you

23:37

know, is a crucial ingredient for optimal

23:40

health and well-being. It has a huge

23:42

impact on how we feel day to

23:44

day. Things like our energy,

23:46

our vitality, our mood and even

23:48

the quality of our sleep. Now,

23:51

I always want to make it really,

23:53

really clear in an ideal world, Everybody

23:55

would get all of their nutrition from real

23:58

Whole Foods. But I have been. Medical

24:00

Doctor since two thousand and One

24:02

and I have seen first hand

24:04

that many people struggle to do

24:06

this despite their best intentions. This

24:09

is one of the main reason

24:11

why I am a fan of

24:13

good quality whole food months. might

24:15

eighty one. Eighty One is

24:17

a science driven foundational nutrition supplements

24:19

that contains seventy five Fitzsimmons minerals

24:21

pre but our sakes and healthy

24:23

source nutrients to supports whole body.

24:25

Hell, it's been a my own

24:28

life over five years and I

24:30

genuinely think it is one of

24:32

the best hope is cements out

24:34

there. A During the month of

24:36

May, Eighty One has launched a

24:38

limited time offer. Usually they offer

24:40

my listeners one year supply of

24:42

Us Monday and five free travel

24:44

paths with their first order. Of

24:47

for the month of May they are

24:49

doubling. That's it suits Henfrey top a

24:51

box test that the keeping in your

24:53

backpack office or when you go on

24:56

holiday. So if he been thinking about

24:58

trying eighty one now is a really

25:00

good time to try. For the month

25:02

of May only you can get a

25:04

free one you supply bits Monday and

25:07

ten free trouble packs with your first

25:09

purchase. Or. He has to

25:11

do is go to Drink Eighty

25:13

one.com for Sauce Live More! that's

25:16

Drink Eighty one.com. For. With

25:18

us live more. Yes

25:25

I think you know usually says

25:27

the same reasons of having chemicals

25:30

been for nobody that we don't

25:32

really want ultra processed foods. Who's

25:34

the come in a box Suzuka?

25:36

Lots of ingredients and lots of

25:38

preservative and chemicals inside them. Things

25:40

that I'm a bad as they

25:42

say that your grandmother if you

25:44

showed her my not recognizes food

25:46

it's are a great grandmother and

25:48

brass the ultra processed foods as

25:50

a group tend to be associated.

25:52

We look at populations with poor

25:55

our health outcomes from diabetes, obesity,

25:57

cardiovascular disease and even cancer and

25:59

so again. The only, even though I

26:01

said we should be careful not to

26:03

over generalize, it is true. Things in

26:05

a Boss Things in a Can sing

26:08

you know that are manufactured at scale

26:10

and intended to sit on the shelf

26:12

for months or maybe even years tend

26:14

to draw the attention my attention. a

26:16

way of that really worth reading a

26:18

label knowing what it is you're putting

26:21

your body so ultra processed foods I

26:23

think guy or alcohol is another thing

26:25

that is A is popular. It's social.

26:27

I mean lot of if you look

26:29

at beer. And wine. These

26:32

go back millennia as part

26:34

of human culture. People. Sat

26:36

in and distilled and fermented beer and

26:38

wine for thousands of years you know

26:40

in the coliseum and wrong. They're still

26:42

doing excavations to figure out with the

26:44

gladiators. Actually I ate and drank and

26:46

they found the fine inside their you

26:48

know wine tasks and and things like

26:51

that like is it was that it

26:53

was there. Is. There is

26:55

a terrorist tradition of of humans. The

26:57

will we do know is that is

26:59

easy to over at it consume and

27:01

we do know that they are. While

27:03

there are health properties in the liquid

27:06

of wine due to the fermentation of

27:08

polls things out of the red grapes

27:10

skin or pull things out of the

27:12

barley hawks in the case of beer

27:14

like sense of humor own beer or

27:17

is fair trial in red wine the

27:19

fact of the matter is that none

27:21

of the benefits that you get from

27:23

any alcoholic. Beverages come from the ethanol

27:25

the alcohol is so the thing you

27:27

get the bus from does nothing for

27:29

your health and cats and some of

27:31

the other things have happened to be

27:33

in the brass of the fermentation might

27:36

be good for you. and

27:38

so that's it as something that you know

27:40

like like oh well they've found that and

27:42

i think recently there was research showing that

27:44

you know even one glass of red wine

27:47

or could have an impact on brain health

27:49

as wall i think that you know we

27:51

have to be i'm really careful about not

27:53

something a spear you know at every food

27:56

that you know we want a kind of

27:58

them malign of for health reasons I

28:00

think wine is a cherished tradition, alcohol is a

28:02

cherished tradition, but people should know that

28:04

the benefits of it, and it's okay to have a

28:07

glass or two every now and then, but I think

28:09

that the people who really go after it hard, look,

28:11

besides the obvious liver disease and the

28:13

problems of nutrition and the brain health, I mean,

28:15

alcohol is a toxin to

28:17

your brain. We

28:20

do want to actually be mindful about

28:22

the amounts that are consumed. Process

28:24

meats are another food product that actually

28:27

are classed as a carcinogen by the

28:29

World Health Organization. Now, what kind

28:31

of process meats are we talking about? We're

28:33

not talking about that. The air cured

28:36

salami from Sardinia that had been made

28:38

in the same way for thousands of

28:40

years that people sparing

28:43

amounts of as part of a

28:45

more well-balanced Mediterranean traditional meal, I'm

28:47

talking about the deli foods. You go in

28:49

there and they're slicing stuff from

28:52

a big lump that looks

28:54

nothing like the animal from which it

28:56

came. And some of these cured sausages,

28:58

if you visit a sausage factory, I

29:00

had a patient once who actually worked

29:02

as an inspector in a commercial

29:05

sausage plant. And he told me that he

29:08

used to have to change his boots every

29:10

month, rubber boots walking

29:13

in there because the stuff that's splashed

29:15

out of the pool in

29:17

which the sausages were essentially

29:21

embalming it for preservatives

29:23

and for flavorings would actually dissolve

29:25

the soul of his rubber boots.

29:28

That made such an impression on me. I'm still talking

29:30

about it 20 years later. Yeah. And

29:32

we're sort of removed from that process, aren't we?

29:34

We don't see that. We don't see that on

29:36

videos. We just see the nice packaging and the

29:39

clever marketing copy on there. And so I think

29:41

that's really, really important. And I really like the

29:43

way you made that distinction there. Also,

29:45

you know, when talking about things like

29:47

alcohol or anything, it depends not just

29:50

on that one thing. It depends on

29:52

everything else that's going on in your life

29:54

as well. We like to take these things

29:57

in isolation, good or bad. It's like, well,

29:59

it kind of... It depends, doesn't it? In our

30:01

first conversation together, which if people haven't heard, I'd

30:03

highly recommend they go back and listen to, one

30:05

of the things I really liked about your approach

30:08

was you said, well, let's put

30:10

into our body foods that support

30:12

these five defense systems. And

30:14

if we can do that and support them, we

30:17

raise the bar, we become more resilient.

30:19

Therefore, we've got more headroom

30:21

to actually deal with the insults

30:23

that are going to come in

30:25

in life, whether that's DNA insults

30:27

from pollution, or whether it's

30:29

the odd thing that we creep

30:32

into our diet that we probably know isn't the

30:34

best thing for us, but we just fancy it

30:36

now and again. And I really liked that approach.

30:39

And I know we're starting off this conversation focusing

30:41

on some of the things to

30:43

avoid. We're very quickly going to get onto the

30:46

things that people can put in. But yeah, I

30:48

really, really appreciate that. The most

30:50

important thing that we as doctors can do is to

30:52

listen to our patients and hear them

30:54

out and try to understand where they're coming from

30:56

and what's important to them. I

30:58

always ask my patients, what do you

31:00

eat? What do you like to eat?

31:03

What brings you joy when it comes to food?

31:07

That question usually can elicit an

31:09

answer. I'm

31:11

very careful not to ask that question

31:13

judgmentally. What kind of negative foods?

31:16

How much steak do you eat? I never

31:18

asked that. I always sort of say, tell me about what

31:20

do you enjoy eating? What brings you

31:22

joy? What are some of the favorite things that you

31:24

like to eat? And again, it's

31:26

that conversation that invites someone to

31:28

look deeply within them. I think

31:30

that when

31:33

I was a kid, I studied martial arts. And

31:36

one of the greatest martial arts artists

31:38

ever was Bruce Lee, who I actually

31:40

read a lot of his writings. He

31:42

wrote in a philosophical sort of way.

31:44

And he wrote one of the most

31:46

important things to succeed in life, whether

31:48

it's in martial arts or otherwise, is

31:50

to know yourself, to truly know

31:53

yourself. And I think that

31:55

so often we get distracted. We don't have that

31:57

opportunity to ask ourselves something simple like. So

32:00

if we had a choice, what

32:02

would we want to eat? What brings us joy?

32:04

And my my strong belief is

32:06

if we want people to get on a better

32:09

diet, to get them started and to keep them

32:11

going on it, we want them to

32:13

actually feel like it's not a heavy lift. It's

32:15

something that's doable. And I think there's

32:17

nothing easier than to say, hey, you know what? Something

32:19

that you already brings you pleasure and joy, something

32:22

that you enjoy to eat already

32:24

is healthy. So let's start with those things because you

32:26

already know you love them. And so what I in

32:29

my book, it could be disease. I have lists of

32:31

like two hundred some foods. I

32:33

always tell people, yeah, my book, get a

32:35

Sharpie. OK, I say

32:37

Sharpie like the marker permanent marker. Yeah,

32:39

because it's permanent. You have to make

32:41

a commitment. All right. Take a Sharpie,

32:43

a black Sharpie and circle the foods

32:45

that you enlist that you already like

32:48

know actually that you love. All right.

32:51

And I don't care if it's just one or two.

32:54

Almost everyone I've met has been able to circle like

32:56

10 of them. So or more.

32:58

But if you find a food that you

33:00

already love, that's healthy and good for you,

33:02

that activates your health defenses, you are already

33:04

way ahead of the game. Love that. Very

33:06

empowering approach to people. Oils,

33:09

oils are something that can

33:11

cause a lot of confusion. I

33:14

know you're a big fan of olive oil. I want

33:16

to talk about olive oil and why it's so

33:19

beneficial. But before we get to

33:21

olive oil. In

33:24

the spirit of the kind of foods that we should think

33:27

about limiting when we are

33:29

in our supermarket or our

33:31

grocery store and

33:33

we're looking around to purchase oils, to

33:35

cook food in, to sprinkle on food,

33:37

to pour on our salads. What

33:40

kind of oils should we try and avoid? And

33:43

then what sort of oils should we try and

33:45

buy instead? You

33:47

know, so this like

33:49

the debate about artificial

33:51

sweeteners is a

33:53

loaded topic. And so I I want

33:56

to just start this component of

33:58

our conversation by saying. The

34:00

jury is still

34:02

very much deliberating what

34:05

oils are harmful to you and

34:07

are most harmful to you. But

34:10

I think that it's less controversial

34:12

what oils are better

34:14

for you and good for you. I

34:17

want to, you know, for your listeners, I want

34:19

to kind of give people some real practical things

34:21

and not just kind of dive into the science

34:23

of petroleum products, which is what all oils are.

34:26

Let's talk about this. Rule

34:28

number one, regardless of what oil you actually have,

34:31

what I would say is don't have too

34:33

much of it because oils are fats and

34:36

fats can be healthier,

34:38

but there really isn't such a thing

34:40

as a healthy fat that you should

34:42

like drink lots of it every single

34:45

day. Okay, so the

34:47

point is that there are healthier oils, but you should

34:49

we should all limit the amount of oil

34:51

that we actually intake into our body.

34:53

All right, number one. Number two is

34:56

that, and this is actually broadly speaking

34:59

is don't reuse your oil. Okay,

35:02

most oils that are reused when we

35:04

heat them to cook, whether we're actually,

35:06

you know, I mean, again, deep frying

35:08

is generally something that's not very healthy.

35:10

The process of deep frying actually changes

35:13

the chemical, the natural chemicals that make

35:15

up oil in the oil itself and

35:17

then paint it onto the food, stick

35:19

it onto the food. So we're eating

35:21

some of the changed chemicals when we

35:23

actually eat deep fried food. Now look,

35:25

I mean, I've had, I've had some

35:28

awesome fish and chips when

35:30

I visited England before and again,

35:33

as we talked about, you know, every now and then if

35:35

you're, you spend most of your time showing

35:37

up your health defenses, raising your own

35:39

bar, you know, having a rare treat,

35:42

it's totally fine. But when you fry

35:44

things in hot oil, you're also changing

35:46

the chemical structure of things that entire

35:48

browning, golden browning, crisping of food actually

35:50

changes the chemical structure of the

35:52

food itself in ways that are potentially

35:55

carcinogenic. And so just need to be

35:57

careful about that. The third, so So

36:00

I think, you know, like reusing oil, here's the thing that's kind

36:02

of like a little risky.

36:04

You go to a restaurant to eat, you have

36:06

no idea if they're reusing your oil over and

36:08

over and over again. You know, I

36:11

mean, think about in Asian restaurants,

36:13

whether it's an Indian restaurant or a Chinese restaurant, they've

36:15

got these gigantic bats where they're frying tasty

36:18

little bits up, but they may

36:20

be reusing that oil for days. So

36:23

reused oil, not good for you

36:25

for sure. And the stuff that's

36:27

fried in oil can also change in time.

36:30

So let's start now talking about just like

36:32

the properties of oils themselves. This

36:34

is where I think rather than kind of walk

36:36

into the quicksand of trying to say, is palm

36:38

oil better than corn oil? Is coconut oil dangerous

36:40

for you? You know, like we can wade into

36:42

that jungle with, you know, but I think you

36:44

need a machete to cut your way out of

36:46

it. And so the best

36:48

way to think about it, to help

36:50

give clarity is, you know, are there

36:52

any healthier oils to use and how

36:54

to use them? And this is where

36:57

I think olive oil really stands out.

36:59

Number one, it's part of a healthy pattern

37:01

of eating that's been revered

37:04

for thousands of years. And that's in

37:06

the Mediterranean, traditional Mediterranean diet. And

37:08

the olives are seasonal, they're pressed.

37:11

The extra virgin olive oil contains

37:13

not just fat, poly,

37:16

monounsaturated fatty acids, which are better

37:18

for your body and less damaging

37:20

for your cardiovascular health. But

37:22

there's a lot of polyphenols that come from the olive

37:25

itself. Now, a lot of people don't understand this, but

37:27

when you look at olive oil, the

37:30

reason we say extra virgin olive oil,

37:32

EVOO, you know, that's what supermarkets

37:35

and what restaurants are proud to use now is

37:38

because it's not just fat, it

37:40

contains the polyphenols from the oil. So if

37:43

you were to actually, by the way, this is a

37:45

good experiment to do for your listeners, buy

37:47

a little container of olives from your grocery

37:50

store, deep-pitted, make it easy for yourself. And

37:53

literally, you know, take it home and

37:55

take a heavy glass or

37:58

take a board. like a

38:00

heavy cutting board and press those

38:02

olives yourself. And you'll actually see,

38:05

if you press hard enough, you'll see some oil

38:07

come out of it. Now in an olive oil

38:09

factory, I mean, so

38:11

you can actually appreciate where your food comes from, where

38:13

your olive oil comes from. And when you actually press

38:15

it, you'll see that you've crushed the olives and

38:18

some of the bits from the olives are actually

38:20

in the olive oil. The reason that olive oil

38:23

tastes so good, it's got that kind

38:26

of peppery, vegetable

38:28

kind of quality to it. It's

38:31

got an umami flavor. It's not

38:33

because fat is flavorful, it's because the

38:35

bits of olives that were crushed in

38:38

there are actually in there flavoring

38:40

it. Now those bits and

38:42

the stuff that comes from the

38:44

meat of the olives contain the

38:46

polyphenols, one of which is hydroxytyrazol.

38:49

Hydroxytyrazol sounds like a very complicated

38:51

chemical name. Your listeners don't

38:53

either memorize it by any means, but you should

38:55

know that that comes from the olive. Now, olive

38:59

oil will have some of it, only

39:01

about 20% of it, but

39:03

if you actually press that olive, 80%

39:06

goes into the olive water

39:08

and it's stuck in the pulp. And

39:10

so one of the things that I always say is

39:12

that, if you really love olive oil and you

39:14

wanna get the most out of it, just

39:17

eat the whole olive. And you can actually cut

39:19

up an olive and you'll get a little bit of fat, you'll get

39:21

all that flavor, and you'll get a lot more of the polyphenol. Now,

39:24

if you're gonna cook with olive oil, I always

39:26

say go for extra virgin because

39:28

of that reason. I would say don't

39:30

deep fry, but you can put some on

39:32

to food, you

39:35

can actually saute with it, not too

39:37

much. All the studies show that about

39:39

three tablespoons of olive oil, probably that's

39:43

around the max of what you'd want a

39:45

day, so nobody's drinking olive oil. And

39:47

then the other thing that is, if you wanna

39:49

choose which olive oil, because I get overwhelmed when

39:51

I walk into a store and I see all

39:54

these, like a whole wall full of olive oils,

39:56

everybody's marketing. Here's what I do again, I Pick

39:59

up the olive. In Oil. In a

40:01

look at the ingredients. What do I look

40:03

for? I look for Mano,

40:05

right? All olive oil. Moreover, idol means

40:07

it's made with just one kind of

40:10

Alice and I looked for the one

40:12

kind. Of All of that said it,

40:14

that oils made from from three different

40:17

varieties of all. Of in. Spain Spanish

40:19

Oliver Ella for pick you L P

40:21

I C U a I'll pick you

40:23

olives. Among the highest

40:25

in and polythene else in the

40:27

oil so the olive oil will

40:30

be loaded second and a olive

40:32

oil. And the koran next

40:34

he. Almost. Which is from

40:36

the Peloponnese. This is both both pick you

40:39

on corner you're very common all of so

40:41

that's a good news is not very expensive.

40:43

Highest amount of Hollywood a toughie Polyphenols is

40:45

a third of for tally in olive oil.

40:48

I look for I'm a oil

40:50

that and press from a bridal

40:53

called More I yellow. And

40:55

that comes from Cumbria. And third, that's

40:57

less common. Hard to define

41:00

a little pricier, but I just gave you

41:02

three olives. Picky

41:04

well Carnegie Mario that are not muslim

41:06

or not good eating all as but

41:08

they're great for olive oil. They're

41:11

packed with policy not be get a

41:13

olive oil that is maneuver I have

41:15

only from each of those you can

41:17

be guaranteed that you're getting sort of

41:19

The top does for the carpet a

41:21

capo of the polythene. Also the album.

41:24

Now. I love that I actually and in

41:26

my kitchen as we speak now is the

41:28

pick you all always at sir why would

41:30

have caught a single origin but that's the

41:33

case. I'm probably used to picking coffee but

41:35

as you were describing that that was such

41:37

a wonderful added see in your voice and

41:39

your body language. a reminded me of like

41:42

of wine connoisseur talking about the different varieties

41:44

of wines or s or a coffee caller

41:46

said silicon about that. You know I get

41:48

a single origin been from this particular farm.

41:52

But. I guess it's not that different. Esa,

41:54

it's about going back seat. Where does this

41:56

come from? How was it process what is

41:58

actually. In. my hand right now that I'm about

42:00

to buy. Yeah, and

42:02

you know, there is great pride

42:04

that we as humans have

42:07

always had, and it's still within us

42:10

to know something about the

42:12

food that is around us. I mean, you know,

42:15

if you talk to a farmer, they are

42:18

proud of what they have. If you talk

42:20

to a villager, they're really proud of what

42:22

their community, what grows around their community. And

42:24

again, I think that, you know, something that

42:26

maybe that we're fighting against, because I want

42:29

to draw back the jargon that you raised

42:31

at the beginning that I think is helpful

42:33

to think about. What do we really fight

42:35

against? You know, I think we're fighting against

42:37

our distraction from ourselves, getting to

42:40

know who we are, getting to know slowing

42:42

down so we can actually understand our own

42:44

pace. We're getting distracted by the pace of

42:48

what we're expected to do. And so

42:50

we've got no time for ourselves, right? I

42:52

mean, every young working parent certainly feels that

42:54

way. You know, like, man, I'm so busy

42:58

And yet when it comes to food and health, we

43:01

all need to have that time for ourselves. And I think

43:03

we should take great pride in saying what

43:05

it is that we actually love. Yeah.

43:09

A lot of people talk about the

43:12

health properties of vegetables. Of course, you promote

43:15

all kinds of vegetables, which have different

43:17

impacts on the body. But some of

43:20

the time we're told to sprinkle or

43:22

pour some olive oil onto the vegetables

43:24

because it helps us absorb nutrients from

43:27

them. What's your

43:29

perspective on that in view of

43:31

what you've just said about oil

43:33

and perhaps not over consuming it, even

43:35

though it can be healthy? Yeah,

43:38

well, let's unpack that because

43:41

there's two things that you were describing. One

43:43

is that in plants, let's

43:46

take a tomato is a great example. There

43:48

are natural substances, natural chemicals, like

43:51

lycopene. Lycopene is a carotenoid. It

43:53

helps to make the tomato red.

43:56

It has lots and lots of healthful properties.

43:58

It's a powerful anti-automative. Then I studied

44:01

lycopene in a laboratory. in it

44:03

actually and help starve cancers by

44:05

cutting off the blood supply. A

44:07

can slowed the shortening of telomeres

44:09

and to slow sailor aging. And

44:11

they can I can to protect

44:13

our Dna from even sunlight and

44:15

ultraviolet exposure slots. A good things

44:18

about now. Lycopene actually is a.

44:20

I. Naturally occurs in

44:22

a tomato on have seen in a

44:24

chemical form that our bodies doesn't absorb

44:26

that wells of you. Pick a tomato

44:28

off the vine and you cut it

44:30

up and you throw it into a

44:32

salad. In my case, great Does get

44:35

some Vitamin C and it's great for

44:37

some hydration and great flavors. Okay, especially

44:39

this like a homegrown heirlooms ever tomato.

44:42

But. You're not going to get the like

44:44

you're not gonna get as much like of the

44:46

you're probably only to get maybe twenty percent of

44:48

the like a penis in there but you weren't

44:50

like for me how to get as much as

44:53

a good stuff as I can. So here's what

44:55

researchers found If you wanted to convert that chemical

44:57

structure of lycopene into a form that you can

44:59

absorb better your body can avidly absorb. which you

45:02

wanna do is you want a seat That domingo.

45:04

Like. In a pan and that with the

45:06

heat will change. The. Chemical structure From

45:09

a form your body doesn't absorb that

45:11

well into a former your body avidly

45:13

absorbs. Loves to absorb at night though

45:15

from twenty percent absorption to eighty percent

45:18

of sergeants, you flip the you footed

45:20

around completely up into that equation completely.

45:22

Now you're really absorbing. And now here's

45:24

one additional thing though. How would you

45:26

heated tomato in a pan? You play

45:29

he he didn't water or that nothing.

45:31

Know that really? He put a little

45:33

bit of olive oil and was that

45:35

as and is at and is because

45:37

Lycopene is. A substance that we call

45:40

set soluble. it's a limited loves to

45:42

dissolve into fast so little bit of

45:44

olive oil. In. Tomatoes on a

45:46

pan. sauteed so soft, cheesy chemical

45:49

structure. Flavors are really great now

45:51

and you have that. now

45:53

when you eat i eat that's tomato

45:55

sauce sauteed in olive oil the oil

45:58

the olive oil with the letter is

46:00

carried into your body even more efficiently

46:03

than if it were cooked in

46:05

water. And so again, that's just

46:08

one example of thousands of

46:10

how oils with fat soluble foods. By

46:12

the way, if you didn't want to

46:14

look at olive oil, here's another common

46:16

snack in the United States. Anyways, kind

46:18

of carrying a page book from Latin

46:20

American cuisine, you have these tortilla chips

46:22

and then you wind up actually having

46:25

salsa and guacamole. The salsa

46:27

has often sort of stewed

46:29

down tomatoes, cooked down

46:31

tomatoes, served room temperature or

46:33

chilled. And then the guacamole is just

46:35

avocado that's been smashed up. Now,

46:38

avocado has a lot of healthy fats in

46:40

it. It's a fat soluble of

46:42

veggie. It's actually quite nutritious.

46:45

And remarkably, people

46:47

eating avocado actually shrink their waistline because

46:49

actually even though eating fat, it actually

46:51

makes you it burns down harmful fat.

46:53

It's a whole other story that we

46:56

have. But if you have guacamole, avocado

46:58

with tomatoes, you get more lycopene. And

47:00

so that happens to be kind of

47:02

a popular snack in the

47:04

United States. Yeah,

47:07

I love that. So the right combination

47:09

of foods can actually help

47:12

absorb the nutrients. I think black pepper also

47:14

can do that, right? With certain nutrients? Well,

47:16

right. So black pepper is so this is an interesting thing.

47:19

We most of us have heard

47:22

that turmeric, which is a kind

47:24

of a root. When

47:27

you cut it open, it's this bright, beautiful, bright

47:29

orange, a lovely color. And

47:32

turmeric is also a dried spice used

47:35

in Southeast Asian cuisine,

47:38

including Indian cuisine is where I first became

47:40

acquainted with it. It not

47:43

only makes food beautiful, it actually makes food delicious.

47:45

It's got a quite a lovely taste to it.

47:49

It's a spice inside. Turmeric

47:52

is curcumin. Curcumin is one of those

47:54

natural chemicals kind of like lycopene. It's

47:56

one of those mother nature's treasure chest

47:58

mother nature's farm. C with an F not

48:01

a pH. And the

48:03

curcumin has a lot of

48:05

properties, anti-inflammatory, it's antioxidant, it

48:07

cuts off the blood supply

48:10

feeding cancers. It actually

48:12

is helpful for your stem cells as

48:14

well. It really activates almost all of

48:16

your body's health defenses and is good for your gut

48:18

microbiome. So why not

48:21

just enjoy turmeric as a

48:23

spice by itself, because

48:26

it's so potent that our

48:28

body actually doesn't absorb everything

48:30

that it could. In fact, our body

48:32

kind of gets a

48:34

lot of it flushed out, you know,

48:36

the tail end. And so what we

48:39

want to do to improve our body's

48:41

extraction of the good

48:43

stuff, the turmeric, it turns out that

48:46

if you have fresh cracked black pepper,

48:48

all right, there's a

48:50

substance in fresh cracked black pepper

48:52

called piperine. Piperine is one of

48:54

Mother Nature's, again, you

48:56

know, these remarkable chemicals

48:58

that actually influences the

49:01

body. And piperine helps the body

49:03

hang on to the

49:06

curcumin. So if you have fresh cracked

49:08

black pepper with your turmeric, you're

49:11

actually creating a one-two punch that allows

49:13

you to absorb more of the curcumin.

49:16

Yeah, I love that. So the right

49:18

combinations can actually help us get more

49:20

out of these incredible whole foods.

49:23

But I think the wrong combinations

49:25

potentially can also make certain foods

49:27

less beneficial. One example I've heard

49:29

you talk about before is what

49:32

happens when you put milk into tea. I

49:34

know you're a big fan of tea on

49:36

the last conversation you spoke about a lot

49:38

of the benefits of tea. But I think I've

49:40

heard you say that if you add milk to

49:43

your tea, that actually you reduce some of the

49:45

beneficial effects. Is that right? Just

49:53

taking a quick break to give

49:55

a shout out to Vivo Bertholdt.

49:58

Now I'm a huge fan of Vivo barefoot

50:00

shoes and I have been wearing them

50:02

for over a decade now, well

50:05

before they started supporting my podcast.

50:07

I've also been recommending them to

50:10

my patients for years and I

50:12

have seen so many benefits when

50:14

people start wearing them. Improvements

50:16

in back pain, hip pain, knee

50:18

pain, foot pain, even things

50:21

like plantar fasciitis. Now

50:23

one of the common things people feed

50:25

back to me when they start wearing

50:27

viva barefoot shoes is that they

50:29

have an increased enjoyment of

50:32

movement because when you walk

50:34

around in minimalist shoes like vivos, you

50:37

automatically become more mindful of the

50:39

experience as you feel more

50:42

connected to the ground beneath your feet

50:44

and contrary to what you might initially think

50:47

most people find vivos really, really

50:50

comfortable. In fact many people tell

50:52

me they would never go back

50:54

to wearing cushioned shoes. In

50:57

fact they are the only shoes

50:59

that I wear whether I'm working,

51:01

going to the shops, exercising or

51:04

just walking around. Though

51:06

I honestly would love to see

51:08

more people experiment with wearing barefoot

51:10

shoes like vivos. So

51:12

now that spring is here and many of us are

51:15

going to be moving our bodies more than we do

51:17

over the winter months, my question

51:19

to you, what is stopping you

51:21

from giving them a go especially

51:23

with this brand new 20% off discount?

51:28

If you go to vivobarefoot.com/live more,

51:30

they are giving 20% off now

51:33

as a

51:35

one-time code to all of

51:37

my podcast listeners. Terms and conditions

51:39

do apply but to get your 20% off

51:42

code, all you have to do is

51:45

go to vivobarefoot.com forward

51:48

slash live more. You

51:55

know those scientists that do television

51:58

shows actually make

52:00

science accessible to people. This

52:02

is kind of where we need to go with this

52:04

topic. So look, tea, green

52:07

tea, especially, has

52:09

a natural polyphenol that's

52:11

called catechins, EGCG, epigallocatic

52:15

and galate, EGCG.

52:18

And the catechin is actually just part of

52:20

the natural substance in the tea leaf. So

52:23

whether you're brewing tea with

52:25

a bag or whether it's loose leaf tea or whether

52:27

it's matcha, which is just powdered tea leaves, the

52:30

fact of the matter is that into

52:32

the brew, into the liquid, the hot

52:34

liquid, comes all these

52:36

phytochemicals, including these catechins. So

52:38

when you sip straight tea,

52:41

the catechins go right in, they're

52:43

easily absorbed by your body. And

52:46

so, you know, our blood levels of catechins go

52:48

way up. So many things that catechins can

52:50

do. One of the things that's important is actually, it's

52:52

a relaxant, it actually helps lower

52:54

your stress. It lowers the catecholamines.

52:57

And so other things that helps your

52:59

lipids, it actually also helps fight cancer,

53:01

it's anti-inflammatory. Kind of like curcumin,

53:03

it's a substance that has so

53:05

many beneficial things that at

53:07

least when I drink tea, I want to get as

53:09

much as I can out of my food. All right,

53:11

now, I deeply

53:13

respect traditions of

53:16

eating and drinking. And one of the things that,

53:18

you know, I know is a tradition in England

53:20

is, you know, you put, or in Ireland, you

53:22

actually put some milk or cream into your tea,

53:25

it actually changes the flavor

53:27

profile. And it's

53:29

lovely. I, you know, I've had

53:32

plenty of teas in England before,

53:34

and I find it to be

53:36

just such an incredibly nice, I

53:41

feel great, you know, sort of like having an

53:43

English tea. Put

53:45

dairy in it, here's what you need to know. Dairy,

53:49

and I'm talking about cow dairy, right? So

53:51

not milk, this applies to cow dairy. We'll

53:53

come back to the nut milk in a

53:55

second. Cow dairy,

53:57

okay, actually is fat.

54:00

Milk has got fat in it like butter, which is

54:02

made out of milk. And

54:05

the fat, when you put it into your tea, does

54:07

change its flavor, but that's not what we're

54:09

talking about here. We're talking about the fact

54:11

that when milk or cream is put into

54:13

tea, the fat molecules in

54:15

the cow dairy form

54:18

little soap bubbles. These are microscopic

54:20

soap bubbles. They're called micelles. Fat

54:22

likes to stick with fat, and

54:24

so tea is mostly water. And

54:26

so when you pour milk into

54:28

tea, the bubbles, the dairy fat

54:30

sticks together and a little makes a little tiny

54:32

soap bubble. And what does it

54:35

do? Those soap bubbles trap the polyphenols

54:37

from tea, it traps the catechin. So

54:39

you've got some good stuff, wrap the

54:41

soap bubble of dairy.

54:44

And now when you drink the tea, the

54:46

catechin is trapped in the soap bubble. It doesn't

54:48

get absorbed as easily in your stomach. And it

54:51

just rolls down your gut. And a lot of

54:53

it comes out the other end. Okay. And so

54:55

you're missing out on a lot of the good

54:57

stuff. You get a great, you get a nice

55:00

flavor. And so I have, you know, what I'm

55:02

telling you is that if you're drinking milk

55:06

or cow milk, dairy, but in your

55:08

tea, you're getting the,

55:10

you're getting good flavor, if you, if that's

55:12

what you like, but you're missing out on

55:14

all as, as most of the polyphenols. So

55:16

just be aware that that's what you're actually

55:18

doing. Now, if you want to actually still

55:20

cut the tea with something that is milk

55:22

like, nut milks are fine

55:25

because they don't actually have the

55:27

same fatty reaction that the dairy,

55:29

cow dairy has. So almond milk,

55:32

cashew milk, those, those

55:34

soy milks, they're all fine. I

55:36

mean, that's really interesting. And I like the way you

55:39

frame it with this deep respect for

55:41

cultures and traditions. Because

55:43

I hear that. And I think for someone who

55:45

might be listening or watching this, and

55:48

they think, yeah, but you know what? It's just

55:50

a part, part of what I do.

55:52

Like I love putting milk in

55:54

my black tea or I think some people even put

55:56

it in their green tea, which I certainly haven't tried

55:59

before. They might have hear that and

56:02

they may not want to change what they

56:04

do, but is this where potentially supplements

56:08

could come in? Let's say someone,

56:10

they like the taste of milky tea, but

56:12

they hear that and think, well, I want

56:14

all those benefits, so those polyphenols and the catechins

56:16

that Dr. Lee was talking about. Maybe

56:19

I can boost that another way by taking

56:21

a supplement. Is there any merit

56:23

to that way of thinking? I guess you

56:25

could expand that broadly into what is your

56:27

view of supplements as a whole huge category,

56:29

but there are some really good quality supplements

56:32

out there. Perhaps you could speak to those

56:34

issues a little bit, please. Yeah.

56:36

Well, let's pick up the thread on tea for a second

56:38

because I had this discovery that might be useful

56:41

for your listeners who are in exactly

56:43

that situation where they like the taste

56:46

of milk in their tea. I

56:48

discovered there is something called milk tea

56:52

and it's actually from Taiwan. It's

56:55

grown in the mountain and it actually,

56:57

it's just pure tea leaves that when you

56:59

brew it, it tastes like it's got dairy

57:01

in it. It's

57:03

quite amazing. If

57:06

I made a cup of that for you and then made a

57:08

cup of English

57:10

tea with milk in it, you would have

57:12

a hard time telling the difference. It's quite

57:14

remarkable. Milk tea. I think

57:16

it's an oolong style tea, so it's

57:18

mildly fermented and still got green properties.

57:20

It's got polyphenols in it, but it

57:22

literally, it has to do with the

57:25

way, the climate, the way

57:27

that it's naturally grown and the type of tea it

57:29

is. All right, so let's move that aside for a

57:31

second. All

57:34

right, well, so what about supplements? I

57:37

think that we should look to the word itself. A

57:40

dietary supplement means something

57:43

to top off. I

57:46

always tell people, if you have a

57:48

choice of getting it from the whole food, the

57:51

whole food will tend to have a lot of other stuff

57:53

that's good for you. If you eat

57:55

whole plant-based foods, for example, you get the fiber,

57:57

you get the polyphenols, You get a

57:59

lot of other chemical. officers you get of

58:01

natural peptides and that are found in foods

58:04

that if you got a pure supplement you

58:06

might get the one molecule or to molecules

58:08

that has been created for like a vitamin

58:10

C supplant. If you want to top off

58:12

your vitamin c pure vitamin c you're going

58:14

to get a lot of it to view

58:17

if you take years to come out of

58:19

elements but you know if you had citrus

58:21

you going to get old a slave given

58:23

to get the a different kind of flavor

58:25

Begin as you get some that are you

58:27

do get sugar biggest fiber you get the

58:30

lemon. Enough and all these other

58:32

as a has buried in all

58:34

these of bioactive that you can't

58:36

get from a regular. Supplemental On

58:38

That said, you're absolutely right, supplements

58:40

can be. Really? Important particularly

58:43

for people who have difficulty getting

58:45

a lot us of of i

58:47

have some nutrients serves their food.

58:49

So for example I think omega

58:51

three fatty acids are great supplement

58:53

if you get a high quality

58:55

omega three. Not everybody

58:57

is oily fish you know day and

58:59

a note two to three times a

59:01

week you know you only need a

59:03

he the I'm as the mountain is

59:05

serving with the size of a deck

59:07

of playing card so you don't need

59:09

a very much but you know that's

59:11

not something people often most people do

59:13

people who live on the on the

59:15

coastline. they might be doing it by

59:17

many people don't am So mega trees

59:19

are so important to our health. I

59:21

mean this has been shown time and

59:23

time and again. That's a supplement as

59:25

that's definitely worth taking. And. And and it's

59:27

a lot easier to swallow. I'm omega threes

59:30

and it is that he did go to

59:32

a fishmonger and and of look at with

59:34

the kids to the days as an example.

59:36

Another example the subtle night think is really

59:38

worth were taking am is probably Vitamin D

59:40

three. And K Vitamin D I

59:42

you know for for those of us

59:44

who live in the Northern hemisphere where

59:47

we don't have as much sun all

59:49

the time all year round and where

59:51

it's cold sore endorse a lot and

59:53

not always outdoors under the sunshine so

59:56

not talk and Costa del Sol a

59:58

massage and of our south. Africa

1:00:00

or Australia I'm talking about. you

1:00:02

know, England, Northern Europe, North America?

1:00:04

You know, sort of the North

1:00:07

Eastern side. Okay, We'll. Get

1:00:09

as much sunlight and even if we do go

1:00:11

outside because it's called we were a lot of

1:00:13

clothes and sore skyn tends to be covered up

1:00:15

and so Vitamin D is made by your skin

1:00:18

when sunlight actually had said and so we don't.

1:00:20

we tend to be by them, indeed, deficient. So

1:00:22

here's an example of where you can eat foods

1:00:24

like mushrooms. The can have Vitamin D for example.

1:00:28

By the way, I don't know. This is a little. Little.

1:00:30

Hit a target for you. I

1:00:33

just told you that human skin with ultraviolet

1:00:35

radiation from the sun will make more Vitamin

1:00:37

D? But did you know that if you

1:00:40

took just a plain old lowly white button

1:00:42

mushrooms that contain some Vitamin D, if you

1:00:44

were to them before you eat it, would

1:00:47

you bet if you slice it. Excited

1:00:49

pretty silly. and you leave this the

1:00:52

slices out and you put it in

1:00:54

new window sill for your son. The

1:00:56

sun shines on the source. It will

1:00:58

make more Vitamin B. By.

1:01:00

Ulysses. He likes to convert more vitamin into

1:01:02

this into the most him. so we're going

1:01:05

to prepare something. was mushrooms sliced them ahead

1:01:07

of time sitting in front of a sunny

1:01:09

window. The matter what time of year it

1:01:11

is in L M, maybe couple hours before

1:01:14

you uncooked with it. and the mushrooms. I

1:01:16

should give you more Vitamin D, but

1:01:18

it's it's not. It's a lot easier to

1:01:20

get your regular dose of daily. Vitamin D

1:01:23

and Bias is a seventy three supplements are,

1:01:25

so that's an example. Yeah, no, I love

1:01:27

that and and semi what I found

1:01:29

with my. patients like i was adults

1:01:31

of food first approach definitely but many

1:01:34

people besides have costs as as you've

1:01:36

already touched on super busy stressed out

1:01:38

lifestyles and by rushing around and the

1:01:41

the don't have time to cook a

1:01:43

fresh whole meal are often buying

1:01:45

things on the go that probably aren't

1:01:47

the best thing for them that public

1:01:50

a high levels of stress so i

1:01:52

see the probably not even absorbing as

1:01:54

many due to access a cut because

1:01:57

their digestive system isn't in the right

1:01:59

place to absorb those nutrients. And

1:02:02

I've had sometimes, you know,

1:02:04

a good quality supplement like let's say

1:02:06

a whole food, sometimes a green supplement

1:02:08

which has lots and lots of difference,

1:02:11

phytochemicals, prebiotics,

1:02:13

polyphenols in, it

1:02:15

could be helpful. And sometimes it could

1:02:18

be helpful in the short term to help

1:02:20

them have more energy and feel better so

1:02:22

that they can then make those lifestyle choices.

1:02:24

So I know a lot

1:02:26

of doctors take quite a hard line on

1:02:28

supplements but you've demonstrated some really important ones

1:02:30

I think have been shown in scientific

1:02:33

studies have real benefits like vitamin D

1:02:35

for sure. So yeah, I really, really

1:02:37

appreciate you. You know, I want to

1:02:39

support and underscore what you just said.

1:02:41

You know, there's always

1:02:44

something valuable to look at the history of

1:02:47

things. Supplementation wasn't

1:02:51

developed to be an online

1:02:54

internet scam. Okay, supplementation was

1:02:56

a really serious effort to

1:02:58

improve global nutrition. Because, you

1:03:00

know, back in even the

1:03:02

early 20th century, most the

1:03:05

world was undernourished.

1:03:08

That's different than malnutrition. I mean, maybe there

1:03:10

was a malnutrition too, but undernourished and undernourished

1:03:12

means that, you know, we're eating food, but

1:03:14

we weren't eating enough of the right things

1:03:16

at the right time. And so

1:03:18

one of the things that supplements were developed for

1:03:21

to do is to really

1:03:23

fortify, supplement, top off, you

1:03:25

know, everyone so that everyone could have

1:03:27

a more equal chance of being, of

1:03:30

filling up, becoming replete with

1:03:32

the key micronutrients that we,

1:03:35

our body needs to actually

1:03:37

survive. And so I

1:03:39

think it's a mistake to disparage supplements as a

1:03:41

category. I mean, this is the theme of what

1:03:43

we're talking about today. Yeah, let's not, you know,

1:03:45

let's not throw the baby out of the bathwater.

1:03:48

Let's not character assassinate entire categories of things. Let's

1:03:51

be, I Mean, let's, let's

1:03:53

be discerning and try to know exactly

1:03:55

what we're talking about.. There's some dietary

1:03:57

supplements that are absolutely valuable. Some That.

1:04:00

I am that's researchers that is shown proven

1:04:02

to be helpful in some that are can

1:04:04

be lifesaving or as well pregnant moms really

1:04:07

need to be taking fully. You know if

1:04:09

you don't have those and you'll have neural

1:04:11

tube defects and your baby said that the

1:04:14

risks go much higher so you really want

1:04:16

to be able to actually take the evidence

1:04:18

is so this is the other thing I

1:04:20

think maybe a useful. Am.

1:04:23

Coat Hook or had hoped to hang for

1:04:25

your listeners is that. Supplements.

1:04:27

Are the real deal because they were

1:04:30

once designed originally designed to help the

1:04:32

body top of with with what it

1:04:34

actually needs. A

1:04:36

Marketing and we're back to marketing now.

1:04:38

Sounds too good to be true. If

1:04:41

the claim sound like. They're.

1:04:44

Just magical claims. That's when you're

1:04:46

Am. That's when you're Spidey says

1:04:48

your radar. Nice to go on

1:04:51

that, you know, maybe maybe there's

1:04:53

something not quite. Are

1:04:55

fully honest about what is being told

1:04:57

about this and is being misrepresented and

1:04:59

so I think that every consumer needs

1:05:01

to be able to. I mean again,

1:05:03

this is why come back to. we

1:05:05

all have mobile devices. We can easily

1:05:08

search something when in doubt, look it

1:05:10

up second out and then make your

1:05:12

own decision of that is that sits

1:05:14

your. If you visit your comfort zone. Organic

1:05:18

all non organic is

1:05:21

another topic that's. People.

1:05:24

Find confusing. With. People

1:05:26

are able to access organic

1:05:28

and they are able to afford

1:05:30

it and your view. Are

1:05:33

there any benefits to thing? That's. right?

1:05:37

What? I want To just tell everyone that

1:05:39

First of all I was the skeptics. For.

1:05:41

Many years about organic food I thought

1:05:43

it was marketing and of the food

1:05:45

look beautiful. was very expensive and I

1:05:48

thought it was mostly marketing and the

1:05:50

marketing messages I received as a consumer

1:05:52

was. Here's. This beautiful food that's

1:05:54

more expensive than other what we don't

1:05:56

grow with pesticides and so you've got

1:05:59

less harmful can. The goals on it

1:06:01

and I you know I. Didn't

1:06:03

feel right to me and I had

1:06:05

all these questions my head about like

1:06:08

whether or not that's really true and

1:06:10

where I just watched my food a

1:06:12

little bit more. I mean, I I.

1:06:14

I wasn't really sure what was real

1:06:16

or not while I changed my mind

1:06:19

a few years ago and I'll tell

1:06:21

you, I was at the Royal Society

1:06:23

in London, actually at a really incredible

1:06:25

meeting with some horticulturalists with astrophysicists and

1:06:27

just a bunch of incredible scientists. and

1:06:30

I had the privilege of sitting next

1:06:32

to our culture lists. And I was

1:06:34

that I was talking with her about

1:06:36

it. A new paper research paper that

1:06:39

had come from out of the journal

1:06:41

Nature which is a British publication one

1:06:43

of the premier i'm a scientific journals

1:06:45

and I said you know I just

1:06:47

read this paper That was really astounds

1:06:49

me. They looked at strawberries and they

1:06:52

were looking for the natural substance electric

1:06:54

acid which is what makes strawberry starts

1:06:56

in electric acid. Sentence. On

1:06:58

Atari helps your immune system and scarves

1:07:00

cancer. I've done research and alleged guess

1:07:03

it myself and so I know how

1:07:05

how powerful this and they are looking

1:07:07

instructors comparing organic vs i'm conventionally grown

1:07:09

strawberries. Another way to say that is

1:07:12

strawberries they've grown with pesticides or not

1:07:14

with a or no pesticides and they

1:07:16

were looking at electric acid in the

1:07:18

strawberries and when they measured be. Conventionally

1:07:21

grown strawberries, they all had

1:07:23

some alleged gases that was fine

1:07:26

and case I expected that.

1:07:28

but then when they measured the

1:07:30

organic strawberries every single are

1:07:32

getting strawberry they measured had two

1:07:34

times or more of the

1:07:37

allies against. And. I thought

1:07:39

that was absolutely astounding that an organic

1:07:41

the grown fruit would actually have more

1:07:43

of that beneficial substance that mother nature's

1:07:45

kind of a myth of that ballasted.

1:07:48

and so I started a whore cultures

1:07:50

I said okay to to help me

1:07:52

understand why, right? So look. you

1:07:55

know you know you're talking to a real scientists

1:07:57

when when scientists admitted they don't know something Right.

1:08:00

So and that's how anybody who

1:08:02

says they know everything, probably not

1:08:04

a scientist. I mean, so I

1:08:06

literally admitted my ignorance

1:08:09

about this. And I asked the horticulturist,

1:08:12

can you help me understand why that might be? And

1:08:15

she gave me this answer that I've subsequently

1:08:17

dove deeply more deeply in and it's absolutely

1:08:19

true. It's true with coffee as well. Mother

1:08:21

Nature, in part made

1:08:24

these bioactive like a lot of acid in strawberries

1:08:26

or in coffee chlorogenic acid is another one of

1:08:28

these. And the way

1:08:30

that plants respond to

1:08:32

bugs nibbling on the stems

1:08:35

and leaves, biting at them.

1:08:37

Okay, that's the past. Okay, might make

1:08:39

the plant not look so nice. All

1:08:42

right, might even like might

1:08:44

even mar the fruit a little bit. So it's not quite as

1:08:46

beautiful. But the plant

1:08:49

reacts to those little nibbles as an

1:08:51

injury as a wound. And

1:08:53

in response and then wound healing

1:08:55

response, it produces more electric acid.

1:08:57

Yeah. Or in the case of coffee, it

1:08:59

makes more chlorogenic acid. So the little nibbling

1:09:02

is part of kind of the way that

1:09:04

evolution actually developed, how plants respond

1:09:06

to create more of these

1:09:08

bioactive. So what happens?

1:09:10

So why is there this difference? Well, if you

1:09:12

actually grow a strawberry with

1:09:14

pesticides, there's fewer bugs,

1:09:17

the plant looks nicer. Fruit

1:09:19

looks nicer. No bugs, no injury,

1:09:21

less electric acid being made. And so all

1:09:23

of a sudden, like I this light bulb

1:09:25

went off in my head. This

1:09:28

is a few years ago that I realized

1:09:30

this and I had this conversation. Everywhere

1:09:32

I've looked, any research

1:09:35

that's been done is true that

1:09:37

the bioactives are higher in the organically

1:09:39

grown plants. And that's sort of the

1:09:41

change in my mind about organics because

1:09:43

the argument now is not that organics

1:09:45

have less bad stuff. The

1:09:49

argument is the organics have more good

1:09:51

stuff. Now all of a sudden, I have

1:09:53

a different view of the

1:09:55

nature of how this fruit

1:09:57

is grown and what the benefits of growing with

1:10:00

pesticides are. Yeah, super

1:10:02

clear explanation, thank you for that. And

1:10:05

then taking that one step further

1:10:07

which goes I guess beyond organic

1:10:09

into non-organic as well but let's

1:10:13

take something like an apple or

1:10:16

a carrot. Let's

1:10:18

say carrot for example, there's

1:10:22

all kinds of phytonutrients and

1:10:25

beneficial compounds within that carrot.

1:10:28

So what happens when we start to

1:10:30

peel off the skin off that carrot?

1:10:33

Because my view would be

1:10:35

well a lot of the

1:10:37

beneficial properties are in that

1:10:39

skin right? That's what's had to protect

1:10:41

itself from the environment, from bugs as

1:10:43

you just mentioned. So when

1:10:46

we are peeling off that skin, yes

1:10:49

people may want to do it for a

1:10:51

taste profile I understand but

1:10:54

aren't we reducing how beneficial

1:10:56

that food could be by

1:10:59

taking off the outside? Yeah,

1:11:01

I'm glad you described the fact that we

1:11:04

might want to remove and to peel

1:11:06

for aesthetic purposes, maybe for

1:11:09

taste purposes, red texture purposes.

1:11:11

But the fact of the matter is we

1:11:13

know for a fact that skin does actually

1:11:15

have good stuff. I'll give you a great

1:11:18

example like in an apple or a pear

1:11:20

or a peach. Those are

1:11:22

all fruits that if you took the time

1:11:24

to peel it, you'll have

1:11:26

a more homogeneous looking

1:11:29

piece of fruit but most

1:11:31

mothers will tell their kids if you eat

1:11:33

it with the skin you'll get more stuff

1:11:35

and it's actually true there's not only more

1:11:37

fiber oftentimes in the outer

1:11:39

layer. So you're talking about outer layers but

1:11:42

there's also more phytonutrients and these

1:11:44

bioactives in apples and pears and

1:11:46

in peaches there is actually a

1:11:49

substance called ursolic acid that's much

1:11:51

more concentrated in the outer layer

1:11:54

and ursolic acid is one of these

1:11:56

bioactives that stimulates blood vessel growth. It

1:11:58

helps us heal. It

1:12:00

stimulates angiogenesis so that if we have an

1:12:02

injury, our bodies will more will

1:12:05

speed its healing up. That could

1:12:07

be really important for our cardiovascular system, for

1:12:09

example, it helps to promote the

1:12:11

growth of blood vessels in beneficial sort

1:12:13

of ways. Now that's actually on the

1:12:15

peel. So okay, so how

1:12:17

can you eat fruit peel? Well,

1:12:20

look, if you

1:12:22

had to eat six apricots or

1:12:24

six pears or six peaches, you

1:12:27

know, that might take a little work or

1:12:29

eat six apples, that's a pretty commit. That's

1:12:31

a good commitment to eat six apples even

1:12:33

in a day. But

1:12:35

on the other hand, if you actually get dried fruit,

1:12:38

the dried fruit will take a big fruit and shrink it really

1:12:40

small. So think of looking at an apricot. I

1:12:43

might not be able to, I might

1:12:45

not feel like eating six apricots, whole

1:12:48

apricots from the tree, but I could

1:12:50

easily eat six dried apricots, you know,

1:12:52

sort of in a dried fruit mix.

1:12:54

And so again, if you want the skin, it's

1:12:57

not just, you know, eating the fresh fruit, which

1:13:00

you can do, but you can also get it in

1:13:02

a dried form. Now back to the fresh for a

1:13:04

second, this would be a good

1:13:06

reason to buy organic as well. Because

1:13:09

you know, when you spray with pesticides

1:13:11

for fruits and foods with

1:13:13

very thin skins, I

1:13:16

mean, for carrots, you're really there's not a skin, it's really

1:13:18

just an outer kind of layer

1:13:20

of the carrot. The fact

1:13:22

of the matter is that if

1:13:24

there's pesticides in that area, it's very hard to

1:13:26

scrub them off. I learned

1:13:29

by the way from a food

1:13:31

safety expert at the US Department

1:13:33

of Agriculture who teaches food safety,

1:13:35

even for a regular piece of

1:13:37

produce to wash all the

1:13:39

potential pathogens, bacteria, listeria,

1:13:42

all these other things that could happen. It's

1:13:44

recommended that you actually rinse, whether

1:13:46

it's organic or not, you rinse it under cold

1:13:49

running water for 60 seconds. I did

1:13:51

not realize that. That's been

1:13:53

shown. And by the way, another thing I

1:13:55

didn't realize is that even like an onion, you're supposed to

1:13:57

rinse off before you

1:13:59

actually cut. it. Now I had

1:14:01

previously never really washed my onions. I just

1:14:03

figured if I peel off the skin, what's

1:14:06

underneath there is pretty clean. But then I was told,

1:14:08

no, no, you should see the research. You really want

1:14:10

to be able to wash that onion. 60 seconds in

1:14:12

cold running water is what you want to do. So

1:14:15

again, back to the fruit skin, great

1:14:18

reason to buy. Good to have, good

1:14:20

to eat, nutritious, more

1:14:22

phytonutrients, phytochemicals. A

1:14:25

good reason to get organic is because it's

1:14:27

harder to wash the pesticides off of it.

1:14:29

And dried versions of fruits are also ways

1:14:31

of actually getting the skin as well. And

1:14:33

that's the other reason they get, if you

1:14:35

get dried fruit, get dried organic fruit. Yeah,

1:14:39

super interesting. Autoimmune disease

1:14:42

is on the

1:14:44

rise massively across the world, frankly.

1:14:47

And I'd love

1:14:49

to hear a little bit from you

1:14:51

about the relationship between foods and

1:14:54

the development of autoimmune disease. And

1:14:57

I want to just add there before you respond that,

1:15:00

you know, maybe 10 years ago, as I started to

1:15:02

really get tuned into how you might start

1:15:05

to use food as a therapeutic tool with

1:15:07

your patients, I've noticed that when certain

1:15:10

patients with certain autoimmune diseases, like

1:15:12

I can remember one clearly, this

1:15:14

lady with hypothyroidism, she

1:15:16

was on levothyroxine, but she still didn't

1:15:18

feel very good at all. When I

1:15:20

changed her diet, I helped her change

1:15:23

to a completely whole food diet from

1:15:25

like a standard Western diet that

1:15:27

she was at that time consuming.

1:15:30

Her symptoms went right down. We could

1:15:32

halve the dose of levothyroxine, I think

1:15:35

within a few months. It was really

1:15:37

incredible. So maybe, you know,

1:15:39

speak to that if you can a little

1:15:41

bit about the relationship and potentially why that

1:15:43

could have worked with that patient. Yeah,

1:15:46

I mean, you know, so I've noticed this as

1:15:48

well, you know, over the decades

1:15:50

of my clinical practice that autoimmune

1:15:53

diseases, which by the way, let's just

1:15:55

make sure our audience, the

1:15:58

listeners actually appreciate that. this,

1:16:00

it's not one disease. It is

1:16:02

dozens, scores of actually different types of

1:16:05

diseases that all share kind

1:16:07

of a common denominator that in the autoimmune

1:16:09

part of it is that somehow,

1:16:11

for some reason, the immune

1:16:13

system is triggered in ways

1:16:16

that actually the immune response

1:16:18

causes harm to

1:16:20

your body itself. It's sort of the body attacking

1:16:22

the body or the body responding,

1:16:24

the immune system responding in ways

1:16:27

that causes incredible distress at the

1:16:29

organ level. And

1:16:31

so it could be lupus, it could be

1:16:33

rheumatoid arthritis, it could be psoriasis, it could

1:16:35

be Hashimoto's, it could be celiac. Those are

1:16:37

some of the more common ones that people

1:16:39

actually talk about. But in fact, there's probably

1:16:41

a lot of autoimmune diseases that we don't

1:16:43

even recognize it. And a new one, by

1:16:45

the way, which is coming down the pike,

1:16:47

which we believe long COVID, which

1:16:49

many, many people do have

1:16:51

already. And I think we're going to

1:16:53

see a whole other emergence of long

1:16:56

COVID as a significant medical problem in

1:16:59

the coming decade. That

1:17:01

also seems to be autoimmune as well, where

1:17:03

the body's immune system has overreacted

1:17:05

or is overreacting to attack

1:17:08

ourselves, our healthy selves. Okay,

1:17:10

so if we're talking about

1:17:12

a panoply of

1:17:14

different diseases that share this common denominator,

1:17:18

what's the role of food? Well, one

1:17:21

thing that actually we do know, a celiac

1:17:23

is a great example of this gluten, gluten,

1:17:26

enteropathy, is that some

1:17:28

foods, in the case

1:17:30

of celiac, it's gluten, which is in wheat, in

1:17:33

whole grains. For

1:17:36

reasons that we don't fully understand, the

1:17:38

body sees that and just has a bad reaction. It's

1:17:40

kind of like that, you know,

1:17:42

that the family member that you know, the

1:17:44

black sheep in a family that comes over

1:17:46

for your family holiday gathering, and like, you

1:17:48

just don't have a good reaction to them.

1:17:50

We all have one or two of those

1:17:53

people in our families. And that's how your

1:17:55

immune system kind of reacts to something in

1:17:57

food that it just doesn't like. And

1:17:59

It gets pissed. And when it

1:18:01

gets angry it actually starts to have

1:18:03

this reaction that makes the entire body

1:18:06

unpleasant just like that visitor to your

1:18:08

homes are you just did the don't

1:18:10

react well to like you want to

1:18:13

stay in a different rooms or that

1:18:15

reaction is what auto immune diseases are

1:18:17

and that's why when you talk about

1:18:20

the levels i razzing distances your listeners

1:18:22

l like that's actually trying to replace

1:18:24

said thing that is damaged because of

1:18:26

this reaction you on as you see

1:18:29

we can. An. Undo

1:18:31

the damage a bit and auto immune

1:18:33

diseases often treated with steroids. would you

1:18:35

steroids do? They sat down, they turned

1:18:37

down the volume of the immune system.

1:18:39

hey this rock music is too loudly

1:18:41

turn of the house music still hours

1:18:43

turn it down a little bits. Okay

1:18:45

so that Susteren still a turns out

1:18:47

that if you go back back back

1:18:49

back to look at what might be

1:18:51

similar records is increasingly were wondering as

1:18:53

some of these chemical additives in all

1:18:55

for processed foods. Are. Actually, triggering

1:18:58

i'm immune responses that are

1:19:00

unintended is of unintended consequences.

1:19:02

And so there's a theory

1:19:04

that in people who say

1:19:06

that they're the got gooden

1:19:08

Dead or Syriac disease they're

1:19:10

actually don't They don't actually

1:19:12

a full blown Celia disease,

1:19:14

but they're. A Look their

1:19:16

risk reactive, allergic, your immuno, a response

1:19:18

reactive to something that's and package food

1:19:21

that also has good minutes and so

1:19:23

I the so you're you're you're sort

1:19:25

of them. There are things that in

1:19:28

these chemical least foods A we may

1:19:30

not fully appreciate. Yeah now goes back

1:19:32

to what your observation with your business.

1:19:34

So what happens when we take people

1:19:37

in? There's many people who spend. Most.

1:19:39

Of their lives eating things out of a box. Rates.

1:19:42

Are the convenience of the council a factory

1:19:44

sits on the shelf or months or years.

1:19:47

And you thank you to a whole plant based diet. mostly

1:19:50

purpose or whole foods died okay now you're talking

1:19:52

about not shopping in the middle i'll have the

1:19:54

store and i've nothing against the middle is good

1:19:57

for issues in there but you're spending time in

1:19:59

the broadus or you know, if you live in

1:20:01

a village, you're going to the village market and going

1:20:03

first to the fruit and vegetable and herbs and

1:20:05

you're buying all the stuff. And now

1:20:07

you're getting fresh foods that have all

1:20:09

these phytonutrients. You're having to

1:20:12

take the time to repair them in tasty

1:20:14

ways. You're staying

1:20:16

away from that boxed

1:20:18

can preserved chemically preserved

1:20:21

foods. You're allowing

1:20:23

your immune system to to calm

1:20:27

and you're allowing the phytonutrients to

1:20:29

also lower inflammation. And

1:20:31

we're getting back to a more natural

1:20:34

state. Like that's how I that's how

1:20:36

I explain the kind of broad observations

1:20:38

that you actually had is probably allowing

1:20:40

unburdening the body, pissing

1:20:43

it off less and allowing the

1:20:45

body to actually get back to a

1:20:47

more natural state that's where it's capable

1:20:49

of being less inflamed. Allow the health

1:20:51

defenses to reassert themselves. Yeah, I love

1:20:53

that explanation and moving to a whole

1:20:55

food diet, no matter who you are,

1:20:57

no matter what your current state of

1:20:59

health. There's very little

1:21:01

side effects or negative side effects.

1:21:03

I should say there's many effects,

1:21:06

mostly beneficial effects, very, very few

1:21:08

negative side effects of doing that.

1:21:10

One thing I must ask, Dr. Lee, before we end

1:21:13

this conversation is in our

1:21:15

first chat, you mentioned many

1:21:19

foods which had super helpful properties. Two that

1:21:21

come to mind are kiwi fruit. You

1:21:23

mentioned how they can actually help repair DNA,

1:21:25

which is remarkable. No matter people who

1:21:27

stopped me in the streets since then to

1:21:29

say, since that

1:21:31

conversation I've been buying kiwi, I've been buying

1:21:34

kiwi, I've heard it over and over again.

1:21:36

So that's credit to you, Dr. Lee. But

1:21:38

also tomatoes, you mentioned. I know we covered

1:21:40

lycopene in this conversation as well. But

1:21:43

many people contacted me, including

1:21:45

some family members to say, listen, I don't

1:21:48

tolerate kiwis. Like I get a

1:21:50

really bad reaction when I have them. I

1:21:52

don't tolerate tomatoes. I get a really bad reaction

1:21:54

when I have them. And

1:21:56

of course, this is individual because not

1:21:58

everyone has intolerant. tolerances or reactions

1:22:01

to certain foods. But for

1:22:03

people who've heard your

1:22:05

great advice and wanted to bring those in,

1:22:07

but thought, well, I can't have that, how

1:22:10

would you respond to them? Like, what would you

1:22:12

say to them to give them some sort of

1:22:14

hope? Yeah, well, look,

1:22:17

what I always tell people is when it comes

1:22:19

to food and health, it's not just about the

1:22:21

food or any single food, whether

1:22:23

it's a kiwi or tomato. It's really about how

1:22:26

our body responsibly put inside it. So if you

1:22:29

don't like kiwis, can't find kiwis or are

1:22:31

allergic to kiwis. All right. Those are three

1:22:33

easy reasons or can't afford a kiwi. You

1:22:36

can do a swap out. OK, so what

1:22:38

is what are in kiwis? Kiwis got vitamin

1:22:41

C, has got fiber. What are some other

1:22:43

foods that actually have vitamin C that also

1:22:45

have fiber? The rub bell pepper can actually

1:22:47

have that. What are you like?

1:22:49

Well, I'd like I'd like something a

1:22:51

little sweet. OK, guava that also has

1:22:54

vitamin C and it's also got fiber

1:22:56

as well. Now, the research that we

1:22:58

discussed last time about the kiwi was

1:23:00

research done with kiwi itself. But

1:23:02

the properties of the kiwi, which is

1:23:04

vitamin C and fiber and some of

1:23:06

the other fiber nutrients, those

1:23:09

can be found in other fruits as well. So

1:23:11

kiwi, I always say, like, if you want to

1:23:13

kind of stick with the research, you got to

1:23:15

go with the food that was actually

1:23:17

studied. But the properties and the principles

1:23:19

allow you to actually think about how

1:23:21

to swap things out. What a tomato.

1:23:24

Great example. I don't really like tomatoes.

1:23:26

I'm allergic tomatoes. Some people have hypersensitivity

1:23:28

like a histamine reaction. Tomatoes I have.

1:23:30

I remember in college, I had a

1:23:32

classmate who would never go

1:23:34

to the salad bar. She'd stay as far away

1:23:36

as possible because tomatoes kind of gave

1:23:39

her this super histamine

1:23:41

mast cell reaction. Her whole face would

1:23:43

puff up when she actually had anything

1:23:45

that tomatoes on it. And well,

1:23:48

guess what? Lycopene, if you want to

1:23:50

get the lycopene benefits, you know, lowers risk of

1:23:52

cancer by 20 percent, lowers the risk of prostate

1:23:54

cancer by almost 30

1:23:57

percent, protects your DNA against sunlight.

1:24:00

is lycopene, watermelon.

1:24:02

Watermelon has lycopene as well. So maybe you don't

1:24:05

like tomatoes, maybe you can't get tomatoes. Well, what

1:24:07

about a slice of watermelon? And

1:24:09

so again, these swap outs are

1:24:11

really, and this is something

1:24:13

I think is so important. And this is

1:24:15

what I hope to be able to convey

1:24:17

through my book. And I, you know, I

1:24:19

created a free masterclass. I've been trying to

1:24:22

teach people periodically online, how

1:24:24

to do this is, is think

1:24:26

about why something is beneficial for

1:24:28

you. And then if you

1:24:30

can get that food, that's perfectly fine. If

1:24:33

you need to swap it out, because you can't find that

1:24:35

food or can't afford that food, think about what else might

1:24:37

be a good standard. Yeah. Right. And at the end of

1:24:39

the day, it still has to taste good for you. So

1:24:41

maybe you don't like tomatoes, but you like watermelon. Maybe you

1:24:43

don't like kiwi, but you actually like guava. Yeah,

1:24:46

I love that. And in

1:24:48

my experience, also when we go to

1:24:50

more of these whole foods that we

1:24:52

can tolerate over time, actually, I find

1:24:54

that we often repair our gut and

1:24:56

then we become more tolerant to foods

1:24:58

that we previously couldn't manage.

1:25:01

I'm not talking about over allergies,

1:25:03

but a lot of food and times

1:25:05

that I've definitely seen that that happens. I just want

1:25:07

to echo what you just finished off there, Dr. Lee

1:25:09

with that, the people who want

1:25:11

to swap things out, your book Eat

1:25:13

to Beat Disease, I think it's a fantastic

1:25:16

resource for people because you can see

1:25:18

the properties and you can find a

1:25:20

food that you like that suits your

1:25:22

culture, your background, your tastes. And

1:25:24

I think the master classes that you put on for

1:25:26

people, I can see why so many people around the

1:25:28

world really enjoy them because they're very beneficial.

1:25:31

They're really delivered with

1:25:33

passion and engagement and quality information. So

1:25:35

I want to say thank you to

1:25:37

you for all the work you're doing

1:25:39

at raising awareness of these little

1:25:41

things that we can all do each day to make

1:25:43

a huge impact on our health. Any

1:25:45

closing words for my audience who

1:25:47

might be confused, inspired, empowered by

1:25:49

what you said? Any closing thoughts

1:25:52

for them? You

1:25:54

know, I have one motto that I

1:25:56

want everybody to just sort of try

1:25:58

to take to heart. which is

1:26:00

that when it comes to food and health, I

1:26:02

really believe that you should love your food to

1:26:05

love your health. Both can happen at

1:26:07

the same time. We

1:26:09

should find the foods that we love that are

1:26:12

good for us and really lean into it. And

1:26:14

that's the best way to have a long and

1:26:16

enjoyable life. You're an incredible individual,

1:26:18

you're incredible dots, are you doing such wonderful things for

1:26:20

the world? Thank you so much for joining me on

1:26:23

the show today. Thank you for having me.

1:26:29

Really hope you enjoyed that conversation.

1:26:31

Do think about one thing that

1:26:33

you can take away and

1:26:36

apply into your own life. And

1:26:38

also have a think about one thing from

1:26:40

this conversation that you can teach to somebody

1:26:43

else. Remember when you teach someone, it not

1:26:45

only helps them, it also

1:26:47

helps you learn and retain the

1:26:49

information. Now before you

1:26:52

go, just wanted to let you

1:26:54

know about Friday 5, it's my

1:26:56

free weekly email containing five simple

1:26:58

ideas to improve your health

1:27:00

and happiness. In that email,

1:27:02

I share exclusive insights that I

1:27:04

do not share anywhere else, including

1:27:06

health advice, how to manage

1:27:08

your time better, interesting articles or videos that

1:27:11

I'd be consuming and quotes that have caused

1:27:13

me to stop and reflect. And I have

1:27:15

to say in a world of endless emails,

1:27:17

it really is delightful that many of you

1:27:20

tell me it is one of the

1:27:22

only weekly emails that you absolutely look

1:27:24

forward to receiving. So if that sounds

1:27:26

like something you would like to receive

1:27:28

each and every Friday, you can

1:27:31

sign up for free at dot the

1:27:33

chassis g.com forward slash

1:27:35

Friday 5. If you

1:27:37

are new to my podcast, you may

1:27:40

be interested to know that I have

1:27:42

written five books that have been best

1:27:44

sellers all over the world, covering all

1:27:46

kinds of different topics, happiness, food, stress,

1:27:49

sleep, behavior change and movements, weight

1:27:51

loss, and so much more. So please

1:27:53

do take a moment to check them

1:27:56

out. They are all available as paperbacks,

1:27:58

ebooks, and as audiobooks. which

1:28:00

I am narrating. If

1:28:02

you enjoyed today's episode it is always appreciated

1:28:04

if you can take a moment to share

1:28:07

the podcast with your friends and family or

1:28:09

leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank

1:28:11

you so much for listening, have a

1:28:13

wonderful week and please note that

1:28:16

if you want to listen to this show

1:28:18

without any adverts at all, that

1:28:20

option is now available for a

1:28:22

small monthly fee on Apple

1:28:24

and on Android. All you have

1:28:26

to do is click the link in the episode

1:28:28

notes in your podcast app and

1:28:31

always remember you are the

1:28:33

architect of your own health. Making

1:28:36

lifestyle changes always worth it because

1:28:39

when you feel better you

1:28:41

live more. you