0:00

Yo , yo , what's up . Welcome to Feel

0:02

Free , the only podcast that'll tell you to chase

0:04

your dreams and call you out on all your bullshit

0:06

. I'm Jon Cerrone . I just wanted

0:08

to give a little disclaimer

0:10

at the start of this episode . It is different

0:12

from a lot of the episodes

0:15

that we have done previously . This

0:17

is the first episode

0:19

for a little series called

0:21

Chicago Jon , which does

0:23

talk about my past and

0:25

my using days . I will be bringing

0:28

friends on in order to

0:30

talk about the things I had gone

0:32

through . There will be the good and the bad side

0:34

. I just wanted to leave this

0:36

disclaimer at the start of the episode to let everybody

0:38

know that in no way , shape or form are

0:40

we telling people to go out and use drugs or alcohol

0:43

. If you have a problem , please seek the professional

0:45

help out , like I did in order to get

0:48

sober . With that being said , if

0:50

anything is triggering to you in recovery

0:52

or addiction or mental health in general , you don't

0:54

have to listen to this episode . Wanted to throw

0:56

that out there for anybody who might be struggling with that

0:58

. You still want to listen to the episode . It is a good

1:00

one . Really enjoyed recording

1:03

this episode actually . So without further

1:05

ado , let's get into the episode . So

1:13

I brought you on here because you were there for

1:15

a lot of the partying that I was

1:17

doing during the time where I was

1:20

using . I had an alternate persona

1:22

, nickname that was given to me at college

1:25

called Chicago John , and

1:27

because there were two , there were two Johns

1:30

in our group at the time and people

1:33

wanted to call us different things . That didn't mix

1:35

us up , so my one friend was

1:37

Papa John and then I

1:39

am Chicago John , chicago

1:48

John . So then there was also another persona that I had come up with too

1:50

during my psychosis . That was called Evil , but we'll probably get into that a little

1:52

bit later . Evil , evil , e-v-o-l . Love

1:55

spelled backwards . How you doing so

2:01

? When did we meet Jackie ?

2:04

2012 . We were trying to figure

2:06

out exactly what month yeah

2:09

, we were , but it was definitely

2:11

2012 , very early

2:14

into my husband and I starting

2:16

to date Because you were obviously one

2:18

of his best friends . Right and I was going

2:21

to school at UIC . Right With

2:23

also another one of your best friends , exactly .

2:29

So the whole squad was actually at UIC in .

2:31

Chicago and I was actually in Michigan .

2:32

I was yeah , I was in Michigan for a while

2:34

, so the first half of my freshman year

2:36

at Grand Valley I wasn't doing like

2:38

any drugs , I didn't even

2:40

smoke weed . I was still like a jock freshman

2:42

year of college .

2:43

No , you're right , it actually was my junior year .

2:45

Yeah , I'm remembering it now . Yeah , but

2:51

then after the summer of 2012 , which , like you know , our friends talk about , you know , the summer of 2012, . Which was ridiculous . 2012

2:55

was the year 2012 was the year I

2:58

was sober for one day in the summer

3:00

of 2012 . I remember it too . Everybody of 2012

3:02

. I remember it too . Everybody had weird things to go do , like

3:04

family events and stuff . I

3:07

couldn't hang out with any of our friends and everyone was gone . And I'm just sitting at my

3:10

parents' house and I'm like I don't have any

3:12

weed or nothing . I'm like I guess

3:14

I'm watching TV today . That's what I did

3:16

. Every other day was filled with something

3:18

, though .

3:19

You know we're not going to get through this either

3:21

without talking about how great you

3:23

were becoming at like gloving and like all the

3:25

lights that everyone was throwing

3:28

.

3:28

I didn't even think about that too . You got to

3:30

talk about the lights , right , the lights are so important

3:33

that is actually part of the persona

3:35

yeah so when , uh , people

3:37

gave me the persona chicago

3:39

john or the nickname chicago john , and it was

3:41

at grand valley

3:44

, it was the kid with the drugs and the kid with the gloves

3:47

, you know because your talent show

3:49

.

3:49

I'm sorry , I'm just jumping around . The talent

3:51

show was a few years later yeah right , uh keep

3:54

going .

3:56

Uh , I still wish , like I was like gloving

3:58

or spinning poi more . But you know that's what

4:00

happens with hobbies that you let go of , but

4:02

uh , muscle memory you just gotta pick

4:04

it up again . Yeah , it was . I

4:07

remember coming home freshman

4:09

year of college

4:11

and because

4:13

grand grand valley ended way earlier

4:16

than everyone else , we ended like almost a month

4:18

before other colleges . It was

4:20

crazy because we started early and we had less days

4:22

off . So so like at the end of April

4:24

I come home and

4:26

the fuck are those fucking

4:29

gloves ? Man . Holy

4:31

shit . I'm like can

4:34

I try them ? And that that

4:36

sent me off . I was like this is probably

4:38

the most exciting thing I've ever been . A part of , yeah

4:41

, putting the gloves on for sure . A

4:46

part of , yeah , putting the gloves on for sure .

4:47

and then everybody got into spinning poi

4:49

and gloving and all these other forms of uh , we call it light art or

4:51

flow art . Oh , yeah , yeah , some staff , some hoops

4:54

, all kinds of whips and shit .

4:55

It was nuts , yeah , um everyone

4:58

loved the lights love the fucking lights

5:00

and that became

5:02

a huge part of my persona too , I

5:04

believe in the summer of 2013, . Like

5:06

I would just walk around with gloves on

5:09

.

5:10

They were on . Even if you weren't

5:12

wearing them , they were still on you at all times .

5:14

Yeah , for sure .

5:15

Your pocket , your backpack , your car .

5:16

Always had them Didn't matter . Yeah , they

5:18

were somewhere , just in case you had to throw a light , show , you know

5:20

, and to be honest , we would go to shows sometimes where they

5:23

wouldn't even you know .

5:23

They're trying to like not promote drugs , so they don't

5:25

want anyone bringing gloves , and you'd still find a way

5:27

to get them in .

5:28

I'm bringing those motherfuckers in .

5:30

What the hell everyone

5:32

still had their lights , hell yeah they

5:34

.

5:35

They definitely started cracking down more in the later

5:37

years , though oh yeah that's actually why

5:39

you amazing lights went under yeah

5:41

, things started , yeah , getting uh crazy

5:44

.

5:44

They stopped letting you buy those drug test

5:46

kits at places and they

5:49

started making out all the see-through backpacks and

5:51

stuff I mean , I get it , but at

5:53

the same time , like they made

5:55

the thing is they're gonna do drugs anyways , so

5:57

they just made you not be responsible anymore , but that

5:59

anyways . That's not what we're talking about right .

6:01

Um , yeah , I , I was

6:03

doing the gloves . I had this like

6:06

Chicago John persona where I was like

6:08

I want to be a rapper and I'm going to be

6:10

a dancer and an entertainer and I'm going

6:12

to be famous and stuff like that .

6:14

You still kind of have those things in

6:16

you . That wasn't just like a drug thing . You're

6:19

right , like you actually are very good at rapping

6:21

.

6:21

I appreciate that . I

6:23

think you mentioned on an episode . You're like you

6:26

gotta rap on an episode .

6:27

Yeah , this

6:29

is not a John podcast until there's a rapping episode .

6:31

I told you I rapped on somebody's podcast

6:33

, though .

6:34

Yeah , but .

6:35

You gotta do it on mine , yeah , yeah , yeah . Well , I'll

6:37

come up with a way to play a beat through

6:39

here and I'll rap for people . I'm going to come

6:41

up with something , though . I will do it . I

6:43

haven't lost those things , though the persona

6:45

might have changed to Jon Serone , but

6:48

it started with Chicago , jon .

6:51

There's each pieces of you , you know

6:53

.

6:53

For sure you know I would never . Once

6:56

I got sober too , I

6:58

almost felt like at

7:00

the start of your recovery you almost feel ashamed

7:03

of the things you've done

7:05

, of course you know , and you

7:07

kind of try and bury them , which is why I stopped

7:09

gloving or like I've fallen

7:11

away from EDM music . But , like later into

7:14

my recovery , where I'm at now , it's like these are things

7:16

to like be embraced , you know , especially

7:18

, like you know , chicago , john . Of course my

7:20

parents have like something to say about

7:22

. Oh

7:32

, I'm sure , yeah , you know that that side . But we're here to talk mostly about the good

7:34

times , though , because I don't want to like , like I said on the episode

7:36

with Edgar , like I don't talk shit about drugs or doing them

7:38

on the podcast because

7:41

I wouldn't be who

7:43

I am without them . Did

7:45

they cause a lot of pain and negative

7:48

consequences ? For sure , but

7:50

if I'm going to hold regret

7:53

over my actions and

7:55

stuff , then I'm going to hold on to that pain

7:58

and completely

8:00

sidetracked from the episode . But I am

8:02

trying to write a book on like forgiveness and

8:04

stuff so that's awesome in

8:07

in order to like not resent yourself

8:09

and forgive yourself for those actions . You probably

8:11

shouldn't regret them , right ? So

8:14

? Which is why I'm okay doing

8:16

these chicago john episodes now

8:18

, you know , because I

8:21

still love to rap , still to dance

8:23

, still love being a goof . You know , I

8:25

had to let go of those things at

8:27

the start of my recovery because

8:30

they held not

8:32

only the good memories but the bad ones as

8:34

well . But now

8:36

I'm able to embrace all the memories

8:38

. I'll be on stage with my gloves one day

8:40

. I know that for a fact .

8:42

I expect nothing less . For sure you always had

8:45

the a fact .

8:45

I expect nothing less For sure .

8:47

You always had the lights even after you've been sober

8:49

.

8:50

I know , yeah , there's just a time where

8:52

, like the Chicago John phase , like I

8:54

was gloving relentlessly

8:56

.

8:56

Oh yeah , Obviously , it's like a big difference . Oh

8:59

yeah , but I just think lights are always like

9:01

a part of you .

9:02

Right , I mean I got the light up sign .

9:03

That's what I'm saying .

9:04

I'm pretty sure that's why they got me that too

9:06

.

9:07

Of course , sober or not , lights are the best

9:09

Lights are tight . Hell

9:11

yeah .

9:16

So I guess , where should we start with more concrete memories

9:19

, because we were trying to jog each other's memories . Before there

9:21

were a few apartments we would spend time

9:23

at , you know , with a

9:25

lot of our

9:27

friends having really good times

9:29

, what . I guess , where should we go with

9:31

this ? What do you think ? Whatever you want ? So

9:33

because Electric Forest was 2014

9:35

.

9:36

That was a big one . Oh yeah , there's for

9:38

sure , but there's , I mean

9:40

, are you trying to go in timeline ? I mean , I guess

9:42

it doesn't really matter , but well , we met

9:44

in the fall of 2012 .

9:46

Yeah , right .

9:47

All of our Michigan memories are

9:49

before Electric Forest . They are .

9:51

Yeah , I still remember New Year's

9:53

being really crazy because

9:55

I'm going to be honest , like

9:57

I came home for that winter break and

10:00

I was tripping a lot that

10:02

year . And I was tripping

10:04

a lot that year and

10:07

that was when I first put the gloves on , when I was at my parents' house and

10:09

I like started like dancing and rapping to like a song

10:11

and I was just like and I could

10:13

see my reflection in the TV and I'm like I could totally

10:16

fucking do this . And then for New Year's

10:18

we were tripping real fucking hard and that's when

10:20

I like I was like really getting into

10:22

the whole standing up and gloving

10:24

. That's when I like I was like really

10:26

getting into the whole standing up and gloving because , like most people who

10:28

give light shows will be like kneeling or like in your face and stuff

10:31

, but I liked

10:33

standing in front of everybody

10:35

, like performing oh yeah , like

10:37

in front of a room , yeah exactly , and

10:39

I remember that new year's was when I I

10:41

had first started doing that tripping

10:43

the buns , tripping real

10:45

hard I'm trying to remember

10:48

which specific new year's you're talking

10:50

about .

10:50

What did we do that ? Day where

10:52

were we ?

10:53

did we go to a show ?

10:55

I remember , I think , our first new

10:57

year's . No , I think we were at our friend's house . I've already seen

10:59

right yeah , we didn't go to a show that

11:01

night no , but everybody was

11:03

there . Oh , you know what ? Now

11:05

it's coming back , so what

11:09

happened ? So , uh , yeah

11:12

, we were at our friend's apartment in

11:14

chicago on racine . I

11:16

don't remember like the whole day , but I remember at

11:18

night because we

11:21

did like such minimal

11:23

things , but we never slept . The

11:25

night was , it was all night .

11:26

You know , we never fucking slept

11:29

like you know , if we sat on the

11:31

couch , an hour had gone by before

11:33

we had moved and

11:36

it was crazy because there's almost like uh

11:38

, now that I'm like thinking back to

11:40

it , there was uh , like I'm I'd

11:42

call it a micro environment , so the

11:44

room was like broken up into little pieces

11:46

of like people doing certain things

11:48

. Oh , yeah . Like some people over here giving

11:51

light shows .

11:52

Some people are in like room like private

11:54

light shows .

11:54

Some people are looking at like lights

11:57

on the ceiling . Some people are given like

11:59

a back massage .

12:01

Other people are just given a hug . Yeah , some are on like

12:03

the balcony smoking , yeah right . Other people are just giving a hug yeah , some are on like the balcony

12:05

smoking , yeah right .

12:06

Other people are like rolling the next blunt

12:08

, like it was crazy , you'd have like 10 or 12

12:10

people in there .

12:11

And he would like just keep flowing and transferring

12:13

. You know , I might spend like we might spend

12:15

like an hour on the couch together and then

12:18

, like once one of us finally gets up , you're going to

12:20

go . Whatever it is that you , the

12:22

next room you find yourself in , you're gonna be in there

12:24

for like an hour with somebody else , right ?

12:25

right and you just like kind of change around

12:27

and stuff yeah , damn , that

12:30

was fucking dope and

12:32

we all worked really mundane

12:35

, low-paying jobs , and

12:37

then we stay up all night and we do

12:40

it again the next day . So after

12:42

like the end of 2012 , the start

12:44

of 2013 , that's when things were getting a little

12:46

shaky for me in terms of , like , my

12:49

psychosis . And then I had also started

12:51

dating my first

12:53

real girlfriend at the time

12:55

, and that was also when I had failed

12:58

out of Grand Valley and I was

13:00

going to Alexian Brothers

13:02

, which is like a rehab facility

13:05

, and that's kind of when I came

13:07

up with the whole evil persona .

13:09

Was all those times in Michigan before

13:11

then .

13:12

No , that's after that's after oh yeah , Really

13:14

. Yeah , that's way after . Yeah

13:16

, Keep going . Yeah that's way after

13:18

oh really , yeah , it was way

13:21

after .

13:21

Just making sure we didn't skip anything .

13:23

No , that's 2014 . Wow , okay

13:25

, yeah 2014 , because

13:27

I remember coming home

13:29

for in

13:32

March of 2013 . I

13:35

had to do medical leave

13:37

because I had failed my classes . My

13:40

parents put me in Alexian Brothers , which

13:42

is funny . My dad started out the episode he goes

13:44

. He was like super emotional . I know you haven't

13:46

like listened to it yet . He's super emotional . He's choked

13:48

up at the start of the episode he goes

13:50

. Just yesterday I was dropping you off at

13:52

Rosecrans and you said you're going to breathe

13:54

fire down my throat . Yeah

13:57

, that happens , but

14:00

yeah , that's when I came up with the whole

14:03

evil persona . March

14:05

of 2023 . No-transcript

14:11

. After moving to Michigan after the summer

14:13

had happened 2023

14:15

. Sorry , 2013 .

14:16

I was going to say what Then

14:19

?

14:19

2014 was the

14:21

times you guys . 2014 and 15

14:23

was when you visited me in Michigan

14:25

. Okay , 2013 mostly

14:28

happened here , so

14:30

I came up with this persona . It's

14:33

funny , too , because you didn't grow up

14:35

religious .

14:36

Nope , nope .

14:37

Not at all Actually .

14:39

Like completely , like didn't

14:41

even like bother to know

14:43

much about it . Well , you didn't know . Yeah , you didn't know anything

14:46

about it . I was not affected by it , right ?

14:47

You weren't brought up in it

14:49

, you weren't taught it Like it . It almost , it

14:51

almost was non-existent . Yeah

14:53

, Chris had to tell you it and you're like I had no

14:55

idea about this stuff .

14:57

Yeah , my parents were just all about being

14:59

a good person and the commandments

15:01

of just being a human being .

15:03

Right .

15:07

Which was nothing religious , but that's it

15:09

. I saw what religion did to everyone else and I just kind

15:11

of Just did your own thing .

15:12

I enjoyed my bubble Right right .

15:15

But yes , why then you guys opened me up for sure .

15:17

I thought it was interesting , though , because , as I

15:19

like took on this persona of like evil

15:21

, I was like whacked out right , and

15:24

I'm literally telling people that I'm like god

15:26

and the devil at the same time , you know . And

15:28

then everybody else was

15:30

like kind of like what is this guy talking about ? And

15:32

you're almost like looking at it like it's theatrical

15:34

. So you

15:37

and you enjoyed that , didn't you

15:39

?

15:39

well , it's not that I enjoyed it like , oh my

15:41

god , you're going through something and I'm just entertained

15:44

by it .

15:44

Well , no , when I mean that I'm like

15:46

, was it like I was

15:48

obviously like there were

15:50

bad parts about it well , right

15:52

, I mean what was interesting to you though

15:54

here .

15:55

Here's the thing . Okay

15:57

, for ever since I've known you , you

15:59

have a pure heart , like the purest

16:01

of hearts .

16:02

Appreciate that .

16:03

Yeah , and even

16:05

in the darkest of times , like

16:08

when you were calling yourself evil , it

16:10

was love backwards . Like , even in your darkest of times , you still

16:13

cared about being better and

16:15

like love and you were just like trying to

16:17

like find a part of you

16:19

and so sure , like to

16:21

be honest , like maybe you showed it

16:23

, but I felt just as freaking crazy

16:25

. You know what I'm saying . I think we all were like

16:27

you know , and I

16:30

think the biggest thing with me is like you

16:33

were unapologetically you Like it , just like

16:35

you are who you are . There was nothing hiding

16:37

and it didn't matter how dark

16:39

it got , you were still reaching for something more . So

16:42

I'm not gonna lie , some of the stuff

16:44

you did was funny . You know I'm , I

16:46

, I'm one of your best friends . I have

16:48

to laugh at you , um

16:52

, but I saw where

16:55

you were trying to go , so I

16:58

knew the darkness was just something

17:01

that you had to go through it was a phase . Yeah

17:03

, it was yeah that you were gonna find the other

17:05

end , because that's all . That's all you ever

17:07

thought about . You were way too hard on yourself

17:09

. That was always my biggest thing .

17:11

Like you are way too hard on yourself I

17:13

know you like were so

17:15

mad at yourself I know , and

17:17

it beat me down for years , though too , and

17:20

even at the start of my recovery

17:22

and even before , like even after

17:24

everything that happened in those years in 2013

17:27

, when I had completely lost my marbles I

17:29

was extremely hard

17:31

on myself the whole time . I

17:34

really appreciate you saying that , because I think the

17:37

whole time when I had like

17:39

that falling out , that Chicago , john

17:41

and evil phase

17:43

, I had fallen away from the faith

17:46

or how my parents had brought me up and the

17:48

government and a whole bunch

17:50

of like institutions , I

17:52

had completely shed it and got rid of it and

17:55

I was just trying to figure out what

17:57

true love was Not

17:59

even like love for

18:01

like your partner

18:04

. I was literally trying to understand

18:06

why the world doesn't love

18:09

itself , why don't we

18:11

love ourselves . But I did

18:13

it in a very angry

18:15

way .

18:17

Well , it's not that you did it in an angry

18:19

way . We had a lot of anger in us because

18:21

of things that we were trying

18:23

to escape from . So that's

18:25

the whole reason why we were trying to find that love

18:27

, because we didn't want to be angry anymore , but

18:30

unfortunately , I was definitely part of it .

18:32

Right , right . It was the only way we knew how

18:34

to express it . Fortunately , I was definitely part of it . Right right , it was the only

18:36

way we knew how to express it , Because we were like these times that we were sharing

18:38

doing drugs , and in the apartments

18:40

we're all just sitting kumbaya circle . It was because

18:42

the world around us was filled with so

18:45

much evil and hate

18:47

that we were just trying to love , you

18:49

know , and we're trying

18:52

to like separate ourselves from that , you know . Right

18:54

, or just like find any type

18:56

of moment that we could escape

18:58

it , you know , and see what life's

19:00

really about . Right .

19:02

And not hold on to those things .

19:03

Right , and the whole evil persona

19:05

was me trying to

19:07

figure out a way that I didn't understand

19:10

, like why certain religions

19:12

didn't love everybody . I

19:14

didn't understand why certain political

19:17

parties hated the

19:19

opposition and people go oh it's not

19:21

hate , it's , it is hate . You know , I

19:23

was just trying to figure out why all these lines

19:25

were drawn in the sand . You know , like

19:27

I wanted to . The whole

19:29

like thing was like I was . I was

19:31

coming up with all these crazy , weird

19:33

formulas and shit and chris was talking

19:35

. Chris always talks about like the fucking triangles

19:38

and the shit like , and my

19:40

other buddy who I'm gonna have on , uh , the podcast

19:42

. Like my room at grand valley was like covered

19:45

in pieces of paper and like you

19:48

know , it's always sunny in philadelphia , right

19:50

, you know the scene where charlie's at the post

19:52

office with the cigarette and he's

19:54

like pointing and shit . That was literally me at

19:57

Grand Valley trying to just figure

19:59

out a way to tell everybody

20:01

that we can love each other .

20:05

Life could be more .

20:06

Life could be more , and I

20:09

didn't start fully realizing that

20:11

until I had to learn to love myself

20:13

.

20:13

Oh , for sure .

20:15

I mean , I know your perspective on it's

20:17

different and everybody like I'm

20:19

in a position now where I'm never going to use

20:21

again , just because

20:24

of course I've . I've lived

20:26

that path , I've gone down it , I've done what

20:28

I've done , you know , and I feel

20:30

like I've learned how to

20:33

love my life without all that shit

20:35

, you know . so this

20:37

is why the chicago john uh , volume one

20:40

is happening exactly this episode

20:42

so I can , we can talk about this and

20:44

hopefully people can understand it too , that you

20:47

gotta go through some fucking shit if you're gonna learn

20:49

how to love yourself .

20:51

Yeah , you know well , you gotta figure out why you don't

20:53

first . You know gotta figure out why you don't

20:55

that and then start

20:57

reaching you know , trying

20:59

to figure out how you can how you

21:01

can .

21:02

First you gotta realize why you don't I like that

21:04

. So there was this evil persona . It

21:07

came about and I had to go to um

21:09

, I had to go to alexian

21:12

brothers and the chic Chicago

21:14

John kind

21:16

of phased out and it was just evil

21:18

then , like to the point where I didn't

21:20

want people calling me John .

21:22

Yeah , it definitely took

21:24

a turn .

21:25

Yeah , it

21:28

got weird .

21:29

Well , again , I never saw it as weird

21:31

. I mean , like you

21:34

know , I knew who you were before

21:36

we got so deep into drugs that

21:38

I knew it wasn't like you had

21:40

just lost your mind . I mean , well

21:43

, you know , you weren't like a weird

21:45

guy you're right yeah again

21:47

like everybody's weird when they're

21:49

all fucked up but , either way . Um

21:51

yeah , no , I didn't think

21:54

you were weird . I just thought that

21:57

you were definitely trying to investigate

21:59

an area you had to see through .

22:02

I don't like the way you worded that , like

22:04

you were looking for something . Yeah , that

22:07

was the whole point .

22:08

Yeah , yeah .

22:09

And .

22:10

There was no stopping you , we just had to

22:12

be patient .

22:15

Just had to let it run its course , really .

22:16

Yeah , exactly .

22:19

The rehab facility definitely didn't help me

22:21

out with that , though I

22:24

don't think so either .

22:25

I don't doubt that . No

22:28

, no , no .

22:30

But that was still dating my first girlfriend

22:33

at the time and then , after I'd failed out of Grand

22:35

Valley , we had moved back

22:37

here for a little bit and we spent the

22:39

summer or up until like

22:41

June . We spent it here

22:43

and

22:45

we were going to different raves

22:47

and stuff like that , and

22:50

I was supposed to be getting sober

22:52

. But it wasn't genuine . And

22:56

this is the moment where I started

22:58

being really hard on myself , because

23:00

I genuinely wanted to be

23:02

sober . I actually wanted to be sober

23:05

when I started freshman year

23:07

of college , when I started doing drugs . I

23:09

remember that year and I had

23:11

done like things like a few days in a row

23:13

and I'm like , all right , well , we

23:15

got to like cut this out . And

23:17

there was like a monologue in my head too , and

23:20

it's crazy because even at 18 , I was like we're

23:22

not going to like achieve our dreams unless

23:24

we get sober , and I remember

23:27

hearing that when I was 18 . But

23:29

it just took eight years for that

23:32

to actualize , you know .

23:36

Well , I mean , like you , it was something you definitely always said and knew .

23:38

It was just something you weren't ready for right

23:40

, yeah , so during that summer of 2013

23:43

, like I wasn't genuine about wanting to

23:45

quit , I didn't see the point in it . I

23:47

was having fun and there were

23:49

yeah , I was kind of forced on

23:51

you right too Right yeah .

23:53

It's not like you saw yourself having a problem

23:56

. It was obviously parents and

23:58

wanting to you

24:00

know us to be better .

24:01

Right ? Well , in all

24:04

honesty , I lost a lot of weight too , though .

24:06

Oh well , for sure yeah .

24:07

Yeah , it was like 50 pounds gone

24:10

.

24:11

Wow .

24:11

Yeah , I went into Grand Valley 180

24:14

. Wow , and I went into grand valley 180 , wow , and

24:16

I went into alexian brothers 130 see

24:19

, when I met you , you were I was

24:21

that john , yeah , you were skinny right , yeah

24:23

, yeah I mean , but I wasn't like I

24:25

wasn't big when I went to gb , I was just kind of like a bigger

24:28

, built like jock okay , you know , but

24:30

yeah , you were in all the sports and everything yeah , and then

24:32

and then , when I like had got admitted

24:34

, it was , you know , like I was sticks and bones

24:36

at that point that

24:39

summer . You know , it was very interesting because I

24:41

was . I was convinced

24:43

I was going to be a famous rapper . I was

24:46

convinced , famous I was going to rap

24:48

with the gloves on my hands

24:50

.

24:50

Well , see again , that's something that

24:52

I don't think is that crazy People are famous

24:54

rappers . You were definitely convinced

24:57

, though , that you were God and the devil at

24:59

the same time , and that

25:01

was where . I was like . That's

25:04

not true , john . But I see why parts of you , you probably had that devil and God

25:06

on your shoulders . I was like that's not true

25:08

, John , but I see why parts of you , you

25:10

probably had that devil and God on your shoulders . You know

25:12

what I'm saying For sure . And so sure I

25:14

saw where you were going with that and I just

25:16

saw how literal you were

25:19

taking it .

25:21

This is going too deep now .

25:23

Normally in sitcoms you see the little

25:25

devil and the angel on the shoulders , and then

25:27

there'd be the laugh track at the dark part

25:30

there was no laugh track .

25:32

no , no , no , no , but that , uh

25:35

, I think I had that fall

25:37

too . So I had worked here

25:39

for the summer , uh , my girlfriend and I

25:41

, and then we had moved back . Um

25:43

, when I got fired from the family business

25:46

which was hilarious

25:48

and I had

25:50

moved back up to Michigan , my mom

25:53

and my aunts

25:55

like drove up every few weeks to like

25:57

buy groceries for me and

26:00

stuff . Still like super

26:02

grateful for that too Got

26:04

a lot of love and support . Had a lot of love and

26:06

support . I didn't . I didn't see that

26:08

at the time , but I've definitely

26:10

. I think I've said thank you to everyone who was there through

26:13

that shit . Um , still

26:15

never gave up the whole being

26:18

an entertainer dream , although like doing

26:20

the podcast and the book is .

26:21

I'm saying that that's a part of you that's who

26:24

you are . That wasn't like drugs . That just

26:26

made you I I think the drugs

26:28

made you actually like

26:30

realize that you can be

26:32

like . You can dream things and be

26:34

them . You know what I mean . It just like made you want to dream

26:36

Like it made me want to dream . Yeah , I don't think you

26:39

thinking you were going to be a professional rapper was crazy

26:41

, because it's in you for sure

26:43

. Like every , like I said , all this entertaining

26:46

things are in you .

26:47

Right , it's not the drugs that did it . Yeah , but

26:49

I let society tell me that those dreams were

26:51

bad , mostly

27:00

because , like as you know , I come from like a pretty I'd say generic family in terms of like aunts

27:02

and uncles , cousins , and stuff . It's like oh , go to school

27:05

, to school , get a job start

27:07

a family traditional orthodox stuff

27:09

, right . When you say anything that's out

27:11

of line with that , like the eyes

27:13

get really big . You know , if you're like , oh , I want to

27:16

be an artist or a rapper , you

27:18

know people start looking at you like , well , you're gonna make

27:20

enough money doing that and it's like

27:23

I didn't want life to be

27:25

all about making money exactly you know

27:27

so the drugs did help me realize

27:30

that I can dream big , you know

27:32

.

27:34

Yeah , you start exploring , like all

27:37

these talents . Anything you wanted to do , you tried

27:39

, you know .

27:40

Right , I don't look

27:42

back on regretting any of that . Fuck , you

27:44

shouldn't . No , fuck no . I

27:46

wouldn't be writing raps and dancing with

27:48

gloves on . I wouldn't be doing any of that shit

27:50

. Yeah , you know , it doesn't mean that all these pieces

27:53

are still here .

27:53

You just don't have the drugs anymore .

27:55

Exactly , you don't need them right , you

27:57

know , and it's crazy because I I I

27:59

find that a lot like mental health . This is was

28:02

a mental health podcast for a little bit . We've talked , talked

28:04

about the importance of habits

28:07

and hobbies too , and sometimes

28:10

when I hear a lot about the mental

28:12

health problems with like people our age

28:14

or maybe a little older or something like

28:16

you , ask people like , well , what are your hobbies ? And

28:18

people are like , oh , you know , watch

28:21

TV , go on my phone and

28:23

Lisa gives me shit because I have

28:25

too many hobbies

28:27

. It's almost like a revolver

28:30

or like you know , the wheel that you spin . It's like

28:32

which one am I going to do now ? I get

28:34

overwhelmed by how many hobbies I can

28:36

do , you know . So

28:38

now , like , looking back at that , it's like something

28:40

definitely to be grateful .

28:41

Oh , absolutely . Yeah , I

28:44

think you have to have those hobbies . I mean , what did

28:46

everybody do with all these screens and everything you

28:48

know ?

28:49

we just can't have to yeah it's .

28:51

It's you have to like explore these pieces

28:53

of you . How else are you gonna know who you are if you're not willing

28:55

to like put yourself out there and try new things

28:57

? right it's

28:59

not even saying you have to do drugs , but just like

29:02

you know , you , you do , you do guitar

29:04

and you've tried rap . I mean you

29:06

try rapping . I mean you practice rapping

29:09

and you've written a book . And

29:11

just like you never told yourself no

29:13

, you never set any limits , and

29:15

it's , quite honestly , always been inspirational

29:17

for me because it just made

29:20

me be like , oh fuck , yeah , let's do

29:22

that .

29:23

You're like . This man literally doesn't

29:26

say no to anything .

29:26

I want to do that too .

29:29

It's it's . It's exhausting sometimes

29:31

, but for sure .

29:33

I love it though because , again , you're too hard on

29:35

yourself , because you're like oh

29:37

, I love all these hobbies , but I haven't done this one in

29:39

so long and I got to do that . I got to do that

29:41

. You also need to chill .

29:44

You know I'm bad at that , bad

29:47

at relaxing , yeah

29:50

, but having the ability to not say no , no limits , like

29:52

you just said . You're not telling people to go and do drugs

29:55

. I'm not telling people to go and do drugs

29:57

. If there's anything I could tell people out

29:59

of everything I went through , it's that you

30:01

shouldn't limit yourself

30:03

. You should literally just try

30:05

activities , things dreams , absolutely Like fuck it all . Shouldn't limit yourself

30:07

. You should literally just try activities , things dreams , absolutely fuck

30:09

it all . Just go and do it like

30:12

otherwise , like one of the biggest regrets

30:14

. If you ask people who are dying or

30:16

older and they always regret like

30:19

not like when they told themselves

30:21

no right , they wish they did

30:23

more , or they wish they went yourself out

30:25

there .

30:26

I should have done this and said this Right

30:28

.

30:29

So why not fucking do it then ? You know , I

30:32

just had to , you know , figure out that

30:34

there's a healthy way to do it . So right

30:36

now , with my health nearing like the pinnacle

30:38

that it is , I'm able to enjoy these

30:40

hobbies wellness , positivity

30:42

and stuff . But I do have to thank Chicago John

30:44

for bringing me Chicago .

30:46

John was a shit ton of fun .

30:50

I actually had somebody last

30:53

year who wasn't around for the Chicago

30:56

John phase . He was on the podcast

30:58

and he goes . Man , I wish I was like

31:00

there when you were doing that because I bet

31:02

you were a lot of fun and I'm like I you know

31:04

. I was oh yeah I think

31:06

I was , at least when I did come

31:08

home that fall of 2013

31:11

after you know , uh , my girlfriend

31:13

and I broke up and I had moved back here . The

31:16

chicago john persona ended there because

31:18

my tenor in michigan had kind

31:20

of ended there in 2013

31:23

, um , and I had gotten

31:25

through the evil phase too . So I was like

31:27

, okay , it's probably just John

31:29

now you know yeah it

31:31

balanced out .

31:33

I did , However the devil and got on your

31:35

shoulders again .

31:36

Yeah , and I'm like all right , they're there , but

31:38

I'm John you know , and . I in

31:42

the fall . I remember it Cause I do still keep

31:44

a lot of my writings from 10 years ago , and

31:47

I had written down like that's gold

31:49

. I have kept everything

31:51

. That's gold . There

31:54

was something I had written before I had moved

31:56

and left the place with my ex

31:58

and I had kind

32:00

of compiled like all of my poetry at the

32:03

time into like a 60-page book . I was going to get

32:05

published or something . But , I never got around to

32:07

it . It was like called the Rise going to get published or something , but I

32:09

never got around to it . It was like called the rise

32:11

and fall of evil or something , and at the end of it I had written something

32:13

that had said like , like

32:16

evil and John Cerrone have been battling

32:18

it out and now only John

32:20

Cerrone is left .

32:22

I think I actually have one of your evil

32:24

poems . I don't know if it's that exact one

32:26

or not , but I have something .

32:28

Really .

32:28

Oh , I have something from that .

32:29

I kind of want to see it . Can you find

32:32

it ? It's in my email .

32:32

yeah , it's in your email Because I was going

32:34

through all my starred

32:37

emails . I'm

32:40

crazy , okay . And . I was

32:42

deleting really old things and going through

32:44

like what do I still need ? Because

32:48

I've had this email since I was a child and , yeah , I

32:50

saw I have like three poems

32:53

in here . No , shit three

32:55

writings or something . I don't

32:57

know how long it's gonna . I mean , we can keep talking . I can try and

32:59

look if you want , or save it , I don't know . Would you want

33:01

me to look ?

33:02

how long you think I'm . Yeah , I mean you look , fuck it , find

33:06

it shit keep talking um you

33:08

know what . Maybe I can actually do a search yeah

33:10

, but I had come home that fall and

33:13

, uh , kind of gotten rid of those partying

33:15

personas , but you know , the the

33:18

drug doing dancing gloving

33:20

rapper still lived on even when I

33:22

moved back here . Um , and

33:26

then we had the times that you would come and visit

33:28

uh me when I was in Michigan in 2014

33:31

and 2015 . Well , there was one other

33:33

thing that you had mentioned , and it was a . It was a talent

33:35

show , right , yeah , so

33:37

I had got readmitted back into

33:39

Grand Valley . After getting

33:42

sober for the first time , I

33:44

got my grades up , got readmitted , went back to GV

33:46

that year in 2015

33:48

. 2016 was the talent

33:52

show , though , and it was in the fall

33:54

, and I had choreographed a dance with

33:56

my gloves and my shoes , and I did

33:58

it to the Odessa song . Say

34:01

my Name .

34:01

At school .

34:02

At school .

34:03

In front of everyone Sober , sober , yeah At school . In front of everyone Sober

34:05

, sober .

34:05

Yeah , sober in front of like that the

34:07

auditorium was packed . It was like two or three

34:09

hundred people . It was crazy and

34:11

they turned the lights off . They turned the lights off for

34:13

me and I was so happy because I was like worried

34:16

. I'm like I had asked him to turn

34:18

the lights off . I

34:22

didn't know Like this anything

34:24

for three whole days leading up

34:26

to it , because I was all worried . I'm like , oh

34:29

what if they only turn off some of the lights ? You know that my

34:31

lights aren't going to be bright . I

34:33

can't smoke right now . I got to practice the dance

34:35

like I was freaking out and shit . It

34:37

was weird because I like was walking

34:39

through the common area , like

34:42

on my way from a class or something , and

34:44

this is what you said , probably like a half hour

34:46

ago . You're

34:53

like you always had your gloves on you and even when I wasn't like chicago , john , you know

34:55

, but he'll , he'll never die .

34:56

He's still inside me and I always had my gloves on me .

34:57

Oh yeah , long after you're sober , you still had your gloves on

34:59

you and there was a sign as

35:01

I'm walking through the common area and it's like talent

35:04

show auditions . I'm like what the fuck is this all

35:06

about , you know ? And I had my gloves

35:08

on me and I like walked in and I'm like you

35:10

guys still doing like auditions ? And they're like

35:12

, oh , we're about to close up . I'm like all right , sick

35:14

. Can I like dance ? Like

35:16

yeah , sure , and I like turn the lights off and dance

35:19

to um a

35:21

song it was a chrisley remix or something

35:23

and they're like , yeah

35:25

, you're in . Totally , that was dope

35:27

, all right , because it was kids on the panel too

35:29

and I was all excited . They're

35:32

like , yeah , talent shows in like three

35:34

weeks or something . I'm like , all right , cool . This

35:36

is the first time I had like performed

35:38

in front of people , like all the other times

35:40

previously I had like performed like

35:43

in a room full of , like you know , hippies and

35:45

stoners and shit , which is fine . You know , performing

35:47

in front of anybody is tough because you're

35:49

expressing yourself and you're vulnerable . This

35:52

was like . This was big

35:54

, you know , and I

35:57

fucking killed it . I think I did .

35:59

Oh yeah .

35:59

Yeah , I didn't win , though , because there was some girl

36:01

there who could sing like an absolute angel

36:04

. She fucking won . Yeah , I

36:06

was standing there .

36:07

Everyone went there with talents , everyone , yeah

36:09

, no for sure , everyone there was extremely

36:11

talented .

36:12

It was great , but

36:15

I think everyone was also there not even for the actual competition

36:17

. Everyone was there just to perform

36:19

because they wanted to .

36:20

Yeah , just have some fun , yeah .

36:22

And yeah , as I fucking- .

36:24

It's not like you won anything , right I ?

36:26

won something internally .

36:28

Yeah , but like that's what I mean . It's not like there's

36:30

like this big prize . Everyone went because they just

36:32

wanted to like do something they loved , yeah

36:34

. That they were good at .

36:37

The competition was with myself . I'm like I want to be victorious

36:39

over my own . How do I say

36:41

it ? Embarrassment , you

36:50

know . Uh , embarrassment , you know .

36:51

I want to win this instance of me not being okay in front of a bunch of people . I well then , like we

36:53

were like determined to show the world that

36:55

, like you know , these

36:57

things would be really cool yeah right

37:00

.

37:00

Well , like , because people like looked at the , the gloves

37:02

and the lights rolled their eyes right , right

37:04

, yeah . I didn't even think about that too

37:07

, because , like when I went up there

37:09

and the lights went off and like I

37:11

think people in the auditorium were like what the

37:13

fuck's going on ? You know because no one like sees , shit

37:15

like that . People were cheering

37:17

the whole time , though , too , which was pretty neat

37:20

, you know . I think my cousin's

37:22

wife said I should like put something

37:24

together for America's Got Talent , and I was like

37:27

it's a lot of work , you know , but

37:29

I think I'm just going to like try and pick

37:31

it up as a hobby again , you know .

37:33

Yeah , why not ?

37:35

It's just finding the time as we get older . You

37:37

know , that's the big thing .

37:39

You'll make time for the things you want to , though .

37:42

Yeah , you're goddamn right For sure . So

37:46

what

37:48

else do we got ? You

37:58

know , we've talked a lot about that era actually in a good way , a bad way , a

38:00

very wise way . Fuck . You think we got

38:02

anything else .

38:03

I mean , I don't know , it's

38:10

really just up to me . Do feel , yeah , do you

38:12

feel like we've covered chicago , john

38:14

, enough , uh , for we've said enough stories

38:16

or perspectives .

38:17

Yeah , I think I think we've done really

38:19

good for the first volume yep

38:21

yeah I really appreciate you being

38:23

the first person to help me through this .

38:25

Thank you . I appreciate you having me be

38:27

the first person here .

38:29

Honestly , like I was wondering who was going

38:31

to be the first and I asked

38:33

you .

38:34

Thank you , I appreciate that .

38:35

Well , you were there for it . Oh , yeah

38:38

, yeah .

38:39

I'm always your biggest fan . Well , I'm

38:41

your second biggest fan , lisa's your biggest

38:43

fan . Yeah , that is biggest fan . I was

38:45

your biggest fan , right , right right , lisa

38:48

came in though yeah yeah , um

38:50

, yeah .

38:51

I really appreciate you helping me through this um

38:53

and being my friend

38:56

through all of it . Yeah always yeah , I really appreciate

38:58

it . Um , I think we're gonna

39:00

end here , though , so I hope everybody

39:02

has enjoyed the episode . Uh

39:05

, like follow

39:07

and all that good stuff for more Chicago

39:09

, john and feel free . Goodness

39:11

, we'll be back

39:13

in a few weeks , but you all know the drill

39:16

Stay up and feel free .