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is yours. The

1:07

Felger and Maz Podcast is presented by

1:09

DraftKings Sportsbook. In

1:29

terms of winning quarterback at the postal, it's

1:31

like that is above and beyond. It would

1:33

be unfair to expect any quarterback to have

1:35

the kind of game Michael Penix had on

1:37

Monday night. And I am a big Michael

1:39

Penix guys, you know, I did not expect

1:41

that. That was in

1:44

the five, six years I've been

1:46

doing this, like really watching prospects

1:48

for the draft. That

1:50

is a top two

1:53

quarterback game I've ever seen. Joe

1:55

Burrow throwing seven touchdowns in the

1:57

second quarter of a college football.

2:00

playoffs. My final is unmatched, but he

2:02

also, I mean, he has some great

2:04

weapons, not the panic doesn't, but that

2:06

you, it would not be fair to

2:09

expect that from any other quarterback at any

2:11

time. Even Michael Pennocks Monday night against Michigan.

2:14

I mean, I think he's a very good

2:16

player, but that game, the noises you made

2:18

are accurate. That was quarterbacks go to bed

2:20

at night and dream of throwing the ball

2:22

the way Michael Pennocks threw the ball Monday

2:24

night against Texas. Oh,

2:28

I forgot about that. I'm sorry. One more, one

2:31

more digression. That was Alex our draft

2:33

expert on last night with Matt

2:35

McCarthy. And, uh,

2:37

you know, we were gushing about Michael Pennocks

2:39

all day yesterday. Barthas of a like mind.

2:41

Is that

2:43

good or bad? Well, good. I think

2:45

I mean, Bart, those ways talk about, you know, but

2:48

he's easily excitable. But he is, you know, he loves

2:50

the draft. He loves college football players, loves them. As

2:52

you could tell right there, I think, I think

2:55

he, I don't

2:57

know that there might've been the

2:59

young lad likes to gush bodily

3:02

fluids lost in that analysis. There

3:04

was some panics enhancements top two

3:06

quarterback game he's ever seen. He

3:08

said top two quarterback game

3:10

he's ever seen at the

3:12

college level. Wow. It was

3:15

good. But for barthas

3:17

watches all this crap. You've seen a

3:19

lot of them top two quarterback game he's ever seen.

3:21

It's up there though. It was pretty good. It was really

3:23

good. No doubt about it. But it just, uh,

3:26

and so I just want to replay some of bars

3:28

because he's a draft expert. He knows what he's talking

3:30

about. I've watched like two games this entire year. The

3:32

second one was the Benex game. So like, don't take

3:34

it from me, uh, take it from barth.

3:37

He's higher on Benex than we might be. He

3:40

says he's a top five guy potentially. So I think

3:42

there's a chance that he's going to jump up there

3:44

after a game like that. And if

3:46

he backs it up in the national title game, uh,

3:50

so barth, barth was all in on panics

3:52

before the game, by the way. So

3:54

let me just give you again. This was on with Matt

3:56

McCarthy last night in the Joe Murray slot. Uh,

3:59

you can catch It's a full interview on the

4:01

app, 985thesportsup.com, the website, whatever. So

4:05

Bart says, obviously the things holding

4:07

him back, the

4:09

big things holding him back are his injury

4:11

history, his ACLs, to both knees

4:14

apparently. I've heard that he had

4:16

the ACL in both knee and then I heard Bart say the

4:18

ACL in each knee. I keep hearing the

4:20

same thing. You mean that he had two surgeries on

4:22

one knee or one on each? Yeah. Can

4:24

we firm that up? I think I'd

4:27

rather have him have both ACLs done. Because

4:30

why don't each? Yeah, because I think sort

4:33

of like Tommy John, once you have it repaired,

4:35

you're less likely to blow it out again. I

4:37

would agree. So yeah,

4:40

structurally, I think it's better to have both screwed

4:42

up than one really screwed up. Right,

4:45

exactly. If there's a recurring thing in one knee, it's

4:47

like, well, when's the next one? Yeah, right. So

4:49

I'm hoping it's one in each knee. He's

4:52

also had shoulders thing and he's older. So

4:56

he's going to be 24. And

5:00

that's old. And so like, you know, Barthes

5:02

teams are leery of that because he'll

5:04

be 30 years old on his second contract, which is

5:06

not what I would think would be the reason. What

5:09

I would think would be the reason an older

5:12

player has his age held against him is that it's hard

5:14

to get a fair evaluation. Holly

5:16

said this on TV last night. He's thrown something like 1800

5:20

passes in his college career, which is

5:22

like, in its way up

5:24

and beyond the same number, you

5:26

know, more, almost more than any other player in

5:28

college. He's like, he's thrown a million

5:30

college fees, played a million college games. He's

5:32

been in college six years. He's thrown

5:34

a million passes at the college level. So

5:37

he's just ahead of everybody else. And he should be better

5:39

than everybody else. And he is that. So that's what I

5:41

would, that's what he would hold the age

5:43

against him. That's seemed to indicate that he would hold the

5:46

teams don't like the fact that he'll be 30 on his second

5:48

contract. Yes, Jim. It's one bad knee.

5:51

It's the right knee. He had a ACL

5:53

tear in 2018 and then he tore the

5:55

same ACL a couple of years ago. Okay.

5:58

I, I, I feel better for it was

6:00

each. needs because that feels like a bad

6:02

knee now. But anyway, they

6:05

just don't run. Just throw, just do

6:07

what you did. Just sit there in the pocket and swing that

6:09

thing. So,

6:12

but Barth said the age is held against him and

6:14

the injury history is held against him. But

6:16

the talent, like just number two, Jimmy, go ahead if you

6:18

give me Barth number two. If

6:22

you want him and you're good with the medical stuff, you

6:24

have to take him because he's that good. You don't get

6:26

to be like, yeah, well, these aren't great. So I'll take

6:28

them late in the first. Why do

6:30

you want a quarterback with knees? You don't trust. And

6:32

if you trust his knees, you look at the talent,

6:34

you don't trade back for that guy because you don't

6:36

risk losing him because the talent is very

6:39

real. Yeah, he said, you know, yes,

6:41

he's got injury history. Yes, he's older, but watch

6:43

him play. You know, if you

6:45

don't, if you don't overlook some of those

6:47

things and rely on the talent, you're nuts. And oh, by

6:49

the way, don't think you can just trade back and get

6:52

them because the talents there. So

6:55

I think he was asked if he's now in

6:57

Barth's mind as he passed Jayden Daniels from LSU.

6:59

Go ahead, Jimmy, that one number three. Okay.

7:02

So, uh, Barth, is he still the

7:04

fourth quarterback in the draft right now?

7:06

Has he surpassed Jayden Daniels with that

7:08

performance on Monday night? I

7:11

don't think he has,

7:13

you know, let's see what he does against Michigan.

7:15

It's so tough because I don't

7:18

like let's get to the combine and see what

7:20

the medical situation is and see where Jayden Daniels

7:22

is at. They both have questions. I know it's

7:24

kind of a wish you while she answered. I

7:26

just, I do think the way NFL teams approach

7:29

first round picks, it's a long-term investment.

7:32

They're going to factor that age thing

7:34

in and they're going to say, we want the

7:36

guy who can be here as long as possible.

7:39

And I do think that's going to keep Daniels

7:41

in May higher on the board. Actually, if Daniel's ahead

7:43

of May on my board right now, I, if

7:45

I had to take one of them, I would probably take

7:47

Jayden Daniels. But in terms of,

7:50

you know, the gap, we thought maybe the gap

7:52

was three to four, right? May or Daniel's, whatever your

7:54

third quarterback is, we thought that's what was going to

7:56

fall off or people thought that's what was going to

7:59

fall off. That's not. it falls off. It

8:01

is a four quarterback draft. There's no question

8:03

about it. There are four elite passers in

8:05

this draft. Whatever order you want to put

8:07

them, there's an argument to be, I mean

8:09

Caleb Williams is number one, but the next

8:11

three, whatever order you want to put them,

8:13

I think there's an argument to be made

8:15

depending on what your preferences are. But

8:17

there are four guys I think you can walk away from in

8:19

this draft and be happy with. Okay,

8:22

four quarterback drafts. Yeah, I think he's right.

8:24

Most people have a three, you know, stage

8:26

three, and then there's the gap. Now look,

8:28

I don't like them all the same. And

8:30

you know, there are people who like me, I'm not, you

8:32

know, and again, I'm just telling you on the limited exposure

8:34

I've had to them. Okay, so like I dug in to

8:36

hours and hours of tape, but I watched a little video

8:39

on every one of them. And

8:41

I would tell you that right now I put this kid

8:43

second. And

8:45

you know what, you could convince

8:47

me, yeah, and you might

8:49

be able to convince me first. In other words,

8:51

if you said to me, throw out the injury

8:54

history, just based on what you've

8:56

seen, I take this even injury

8:58

history has the same kind of performance against Michigan

9:00

Monday night. He's one. I think

9:03

I well maybe I mean, I don't look it's

9:05

not my area of expertise. You would jump Caleb

9:07

Williams. Yeah, I'll tell you why. Because

9:09

I think the makeup's better. Makeups

9:11

better. The release is something

9:13

you mentioned it yesterday. I was watching

9:15

a little bit more last night. The

9:17

release is unconventional. Yeah, it's three quarters.

9:20

It's like it's it's shoulder height, which

9:22

I don't care about. But

9:25

teams will, you know, maybe that's

9:27

that's why he's considered fourth. I don't know.

9:29

It's not your conventional behind the ear over

9:31

the top. Classic, you know, is,

9:34

you know, like Tom Brady, if Tom Brady's

9:36

Iron Byron, the quintessential

9:39

robotic, perfect, structurally perfect

9:41

throwing, he's not it. This is more

9:43

Phil Riversey, I feel like

9:45

something lefty. Yeah, I just like rivers

9:47

delivery more than this guy. But the

9:49

thing about, you know, teams

9:52

gonna be dissuaded from because of the age and what

9:54

he'll be on the second contract. Would you stop with

9:56

this? I couldn't care less about that. Oh, my God,

9:58

such a non fact. It's also been way

10:01

overstayed. People keep getting around. Every time I talk to someone

10:03

and say, boy, he's going to be 25 in April, he's

10:05

going to be 24. 24,

10:07

he's 23 right now, he'll be 24. He'll

10:09

play as a rookie at 24. But

10:12

or he'll play at 25 as a second

10:14

year player. Like that's not old. The quarterback's

10:16

prime, and this doesn't apply to everybody, but

10:19

the quarterback's prime is late 20s into his early

10:21

30s. And if you're good, you play until your late

10:23

30s. So what's the

10:25

doubt? What are you worried about there? That you

10:27

get them for 15 years instead of 17? Or

10:30

like, if he really pans out, what do you

10:32

that's insane? No, it's ridiculous. Again, let's say you

10:34

get them for 10. What's

10:36

wrong with that? I mean, so to me, what

10:38

the hell's wrong with that? The age thing is

10:40

just, you know, is he overblown? As I mentioned

10:42

yesterday, is he like these kids you have to

10:44

deal with in youth sports who

10:47

are 14 years old in the sixth grade? Like,

10:49

and then so now you can't get

10:51

a fair evaluation because the deck is

10:53

stacked in his favor. So much

10:55

older and more experienced than the guys he's playing against.

10:58

Of course he looks better. And you can't

11:00

get a fair gauge of it. That I think is okay.

11:02

Like that I get. The thing about you

11:05

get them for two less years down the road,

11:07

but what? Give me a break

11:09

with that. No, I can't stand it. I think

11:11

that that's ridiculous. Again, what's wrong with having a

11:14

quarterback for 10 years? I'll take it. I'll take

11:16

it in a second. Are you kidding me? And

11:18

I just, the intangibles with this kid too, were

11:20

off the charts. I'm sorry. He believes that he

11:23

will complete every throw he makes. He, that's why

11:25

he throws it the way he does. He

11:28

doesn't give a rat's ass. And I

11:30

don't mean that recklessly. I mean, he sees

11:32

a little window. He says, I can

11:34

put it in there. He believes it.

11:37

He's a confident player the way he throws the

11:39

ball. Oh, I told you right now,

11:42

to me, it's him and Williams. The

11:44

other two guys scare me a little bit. And

11:47

the, the, uh, James Daniels is run first.

11:49

He's Lamar Jackson 2.0. Well, I want just

11:52

last final thought. If you want your rookie

11:54

quarterback to start day one, and

11:56

I'm not necessarily that guy, but if you are, I know most

11:58

of you are. Pennix might be

12:00

the most ready or he's certainly ready because again

12:03

all the reps he's gotten so far So

12:05

he is someone that I think would be more daniel feels

12:08

to me a little more projecty I don't know if he

12:10

would start day one But pennix

12:12

if you want your rookie to start day one. He

12:14

might be the guy just quickly mike What was that

12:16

rule parcels used to have two years as a starter?

12:18

Was it two years or do you remember he used

12:20

to have some guidelines for drafting a quarterback? It was

12:23

a minimum number of years started in college. Yeah in

12:25

college, you know, that's the guy you're looking for And

12:28

I want to say it was two years 25 games

12:31

something like that. This kid has started almost 50

12:35

50 starts and call he's played a lot of

12:37

football. He's 24. He's ready to play Okay, there's

12:39

a little pennix thought for you back to your

12:41

calls on everything. I promise right after this College

12:44

football fans. The championship game is

12:46

here and all the season's action

12:48

upsets crazy catches game-winning touchdowns There's

12:50

lettuce to this game a drafty

12:52

sportsbook is making sure you can

12:54

throw down on the epic showdown

12:56

First shot at the big bucks

12:58

new customers can score 150 instantly

13:01

in bonus bets for betting five dollars on

13:03

the game There's something for everyone money lines

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13:10

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13:38

Supply terms at sportsbook.dropkins.com

13:46

Now now Somewhere

13:54

between two and five to me

13:56

bar the takeaway is the outcome

13:58

of this game this weekend maybe

14:01

doesn't matter as much as Patriots fans

14:03

think because there should be a quarterback

14:05

there available for you and a good

14:07

quarterback available there there for you in

14:09

the top five whether you're drafting two

14:11

or five is that too simple

14:13

way to look at it as

14:15

a Patriots fan entering this weekend against the Jets?

14:19

No I think that's fair and Marvin Harrison

14:21

Jr. is gonna go somewhere in there right

14:23

and the Chicago Bears aren't gonna trade out of

14:25

the top five overall so

14:27

you know Washington might move up and take Caleb

14:30

Williams so the math is there for them to

14:32

have their guy and the other part of it

14:34

we've talked about this Matt and you

14:36

know Sager doesn't think I feel this way but

14:38

they can trade out they can still trade

14:40

out and if they feel like they need to move up

14:43

two or three spots to get the

14:45

guy seven to four for instance called

14:47

worst-case scenario seven to four that's not

14:49

a massive undertaking I know

14:51

people think it is it's not nothing but

14:54

it's also hard it's the price of doing

14:56

business in the NFL they

14:58

no matter what happens Sunday are

15:01

gonna be in position to get a guy that can be

15:03

a franchise change in quarterback really the only question is are

15:05

they gonna have to maybe give up a second or a

15:07

third to make that happen and I know some people roll

15:09

their eyes at that well I would say how the

15:12

second and third round ticks gone recently that

15:14

you're that worried about that. Jen

15:18

final thoughts there from Bart? Win

15:20

or lose you're gonna be in position to draft a really good

15:22

quarterback that's the best

15:24

news right there now we

15:27

all know you

15:30

give me any year and any

15:32

top class of any position half of them

15:34

are gonna suck especially quarterback

15:37

one two quarterbacks going one tee and one

15:39

two Kayla Williams Drake may or Kayla Williams

15:42

or Jayden Daniels you

15:44

tell me the last time if ever quarterbacks

15:47

went one two and both were good there

15:49

was one year I looked up and I can't remember

15:51

I thought that's oh it was um um luck in

15:53

RG 3 is that who it was those two is

15:56

that really the one well that was Griffin who had

15:58

two good years okay I'm good here really Right,

16:00

but I would tell you that there was an injury

16:02

involved that factored into that. With both of them, but

16:04

I don't know, just listen

16:06

to Patriots fans. Again,

16:08

just to listen to you people over the years,

16:10

Andrew Luck was grossly overrated and why would you

16:12

want Robert Griffin to run around for a year and

16:14

a half and get hurt? So

16:16

I don't know, that, I mean... No, no, I hear

16:19

you, I'm telling you that I think Griffin would have

16:21

been pretty good if he didn't have

16:23

any injury. Yeah, no, and I'm... No, I hear you.

16:26

Listen, you just tell me, just come up

16:28

with it. Give me the

16:30

last time four quarterbacks went in the top 10

16:32

and all four were good. Never. Give me the

16:34

last time quarterbacks went 1-2 and both were good.

16:37

It never happened. You really can't. It's

16:40

so true though, it never happens. One

16:42

of them always sucks, sometimes both of them suck.

16:44

The only case you might really be able to

16:47

make, you've got to go back 40 plus 50

16:49

years really to 71, Jim

16:51

Plunkett and Archie Manning. Okay, so

16:53

Plunkett, they did... Sucked here, but... Second

16:55

go around. Yeah. We'll

16:58

go back to this, by the way. We're Maz's

17:00

tears, believe it or not. And Manning was a

17:02

disappointment overall, but he had a crap team around

17:04

him. Archie Manning, right? Yeah, Archie Manning. So, you

17:07

know... Luck and Griffin's a good one, that's

17:09

as close as you're gonna get. So, long story

17:11

short, if it's Caleb Williams' strike

17:13

mate, one of them's gonna suck, if not both. Like,

17:16

Winston Goff, you know, that's

17:19

a modern day equivalent. Marriota and

17:21

Winston. Oh, that was

17:23

garbage. That was garbage,

17:26

right? So it's like... Seriously, that was

17:28

stinky garbage. One or both are gonna

17:30

suck. If four guys go in the

17:33

top 10, at least two, if not three are

17:35

gonna suck. Or four. Five went

17:37

a couple of years ago, and four of

17:39

the five suck. So...

17:43

But you're gonna feel good on draft

17:45

night, with one of the four... No matter whether you

17:47

win or lose on Sunday, you'll be able

17:49

to talk about a quarterback, draft a quarterback, feel good

17:51

about a quarterback, and then he'll play and you'll probably

17:53

hate him. But

17:56

that's sort of the point of that. And oh, by

17:58

the way, I'm not really sure how much it matters. whether you're

18:00

drafting the first guy or the fourth guy. Because

18:02

when you look at it, it's just that much of

18:04

a crapshoot. It is a crapshoot. The other thing is,

18:06

I do think it's independent

18:09

of the Patriots involvement, which at the end of the

18:11

day is all we care about it. And don't get

18:13

me wrong, I'm glad, from that standpoint, a talk standpoint,

18:15

I'm glad they're in it. It's

18:18

a fascinating top of the draft. Because

18:20

Chicago's got a guy, potentially already, and

18:22

they have the number one pick. Like

18:25

there could be all kinds of jockeying and maneuvering up

18:27

there. And that's nothing easy, like, oh my God, we

18:30

won't get the guy, because it was good. Well,

18:33

Fields may have played himself into another look in

18:35

Chicago. The coach out in Arizona

18:37

said, I can guarantee you that Kyler Murray's

18:39

gonna be our guy next year. So

18:42

again, when the rubber meets the road, who knows? But

18:45

what is Chicago gonna do? What is Arizona

18:47

gonna do? Like how does that, you're just

18:49

like, it's okay to win a football game.

18:51

If you take the word of the head coach of Arizona,

18:53

they're keeping Kyler Murray. That's right. Yeah.

18:56

You can grab that, Jimmy. Okay, there you go. But

18:58

the first one of the year. Don't spread it, Murray.

19:00

Yeah, that's right. Kick off the new

19:03

year. You're welcome. There's the

19:05

start of the next pitch, Jimmy. All

19:08

right, anyway, so mix that all together. Your thoughts on all of it. Tom

19:10

and Quincy, what do you got, Tom? Hey,

19:14

you know, growing up in Massachusetts and

19:16

being a Boston sports fan is fantastic.

19:19

But in the other regard, it's

19:21

frustrating. Because Mike, when I heard these

19:23

articles are coming out, I'm like, well, at least I know

19:25

that he's gonna have his highlight as ready, he's

19:28

gonna fire up all the good points of what these stories are. So

19:30

trust me when I tell you that I look

19:33

forward to what your introspective thoughts are on all

19:35

this stuff. The thing that I hate,

19:38

I really do dislike, is

19:41

that every single time, regardless of

19:43

if it's an athlete, a coach,

19:45

a GM, an owner, there's

19:48

always these two things. It's either an

19:50

F and puff piece, like this one

19:52

from Thrap today, or a

19:54

tear-down job, which looks like the

19:57

Belichick, regardless of all

19:59

the... good he did, they're looking

20:01

back and saying, well, yeah, but, you know,

20:03

he, he, he sucked at this and he

20:05

sucked at this and this is why they're

20:07

there and this is that craft has got

20:09

no blame and it's not fair. All

20:12

I want is fair. Okay. And the

20:14

athletic piece won't really give it to it. I think the

20:16

athletic piece is just bearing

20:19

Belichick and deflecting any blame that you might put

20:21

on the craft. And

20:24

it just shows you that in

20:26

the end, this team was no different than most. When

20:29

it ends, it ends badly. People

20:31

point fingers. They try and, you know,

20:33

throw dirt on the other guy on the way out

20:35

the door. They try and craft and

20:38

excuse for the pun. They try and, you

20:40

know, influence public opinion. And

20:43

just like the Red Sox would do with Terry Francona, I

20:45

think this athletic piece is akin to what they've done with

20:47

it. It's unbelievable. It

20:49

is unbelievable. And it's not nearly

20:51

as vicious. It's not like they're talking about Bill's personal life

20:53

or anything like that, which the whole earth story did. But

20:57

anything that you might include ownership

21:00

as part of the blame for what's gone wrong

21:02

here is put squarely on Belichick from the

21:04

decision to let go of Brady to the decision to

21:08

staff the way that they staff the number

21:10

of personnel they have on their staff, how

21:12

they've drafted all the way down

21:14

the line. It's all Bill's fault. No, it doesn't

21:16

smear him as a human being, but it does sort

21:18

of put all the blame on him for things that

21:20

have deteriorated over the last five years. And he deserves

21:22

most of the blame. I mean, don't get me wrong.

21:25

I just the way, for example,

21:27

Kraft tries to deflect the blame for

21:29

letting Brady go. That's unbelievable.

21:32

Comical to me. Absolutely comical.

21:35

And we'll circle back to some of the details here coming up in

21:37

a second. How about Dan and

21:40

Milton? Yes, Dan. Yeah. So

21:43

I was wondering what the best strategy

21:45

for Belichick's Monday meeting with Kraft might

21:47

be. So I'm thinking

21:49

he should go in there prominently

21:52

wearing that blue pin symbolizing

21:54

Kraft's anti-Semitism campaign on his

21:57

chest. And so we're used to wear

21:59

it. Bailey noticeable if you

22:01

guys remember sure I'm surprised that detail

22:03

did not make the athletic story yeah

22:05

right because in the athletic story it's

22:09

portrayed as Bill Belichick being ungrateful

22:11

for the stadium renovations that

22:13

the crafts paid for that's

22:15

written in this story it is that

22:17

and I use different words but they

22:19

were it feels like the the ownership

22:21

was put off well I'll just read

22:23

it free well look and also look

22:25

what it celebrates about how they built

22:27

Patriot place how about that line well

22:30

I mean listen he goes through graph goes through

22:32

all of Bill of Robert Kraff's Hall of Fame

22:34

credentials which I don't know how

22:37

that's germane in the Belichick craft divorce but it

22:39

gets in here which again is a giveaway that

22:42

you know this is heavily ownership

22:44

slanted but anyway after

22:47

Kraft started to challenge Bill Belichick with some of his comments

22:49

at the owners meetings in 2021 in 2022 Belichick seemed to

22:52

begin playing

22:54

his own games through the media from that

22:56

point on he praised several other ownership groups

22:58

and the facilities of other teams while

23:01

conspicuously refraining from praising the crafts

23:04

and the renovations they've privately funded

23:06

at Gillette Stadium even the throwing

23:08

in privately funded is a giveaway because

23:11

the crafts are insistent that you know

23:13

that they have not used

23:15

public money for these things so every

23:17

time they bring up the building of

23:20

the stadium the renovation of the stadium anything

23:22

to do with it they make sure you

23:24

know it's privately funded and we did not

23:26

hit up the taxpayers that's something that's very near

23:28

to their heart but why is that included in this

23:30

story why is it germane to this it's not unless

23:32

you're trying to service the owner anyway

23:35

they were again Belichick

23:37

praise several other ownership groups and

23:40

their facilities while conspicuously refraining from

23:43

praising the crafts and the renovations

23:45

they've privately funded at Gillette Stadium

23:48

meanwhile Belichick has said little publicly about

23:50

Robert or Jonathan Kraft at all his

23:53

only comments about the two hundred and

23:55

fifty million dollar renovations the crafts completed

23:57

this year were about how the

23:59

bigger video board might affect win patterns for the

24:01

kickers. And so what the

24:04

this is a this is something that's rub craft the wrong

24:06

way that the only time he's mentioned the scoreboard is that

24:08

how it's going to affect the wind patterns in the stadium.

24:11

Craft wanted build up. Look how beautiful

24:13

it is. And gosh, kiss the ring and go

24:15

on and on and on. Like you would see

24:18

coming out of the first quarter break of any game on

24:20

CBS. The tribute craft

24:23

expected bill to pay tribute to

24:25

the crafts for putting in a new

24:27

scoreboard. Work. Belichick

24:30

would probably say, how about

24:32

how we sign a wide receiver for some money as opposed

24:34

to the Schmenzer out there in the north end zone. But

24:37

this is the back and forth of the word we're talking about

24:40

or a tackle. And

24:42

then there was this whole thing real quick in

24:44

August, just before craft found out he had not

24:46

been selected for the Hall of Fame. Belichick was

24:49

given a chance to publicly back the candidacy of

24:51

a guy who signed his paychecks. It

24:53

was a softball question, but Belichick was brief in his

24:55

answer quote, keeping our fingers crossed that we'll get the

24:57

vote this year. He said. The

25:00

Belichick backers, it was a simple sign of support,

25:03

but others saw it as a less than

25:05

full throated endorsement. Belichick

25:08

is often brief when discussing his current team, but it's

25:10

not uncommon for him to talk about long

25:12

snappers, left footed punters, or curly lambos

25:14

playbook. Yet when it came to

25:16

his boss's place in NFL history, his answer

25:18

lasted 11 words. And

25:21

so this is part of the reason they're

25:23

divorcing because Bill hasn't played the proper tribute

25:25

to Robert publicly. Which

25:28

is again, this is how it ends. We'll

25:32

give you more than he tells in these two stories coming up

25:34

after big J'Mari gets you up to. Dodge

25:36

football fans. The championship game is here

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Driving you home? Driving you crazy.

26:40

No one has any idea what the hell that means, but that's what

26:42

that means. It's Belger and Mass on the

26:44

sports hub. Again,

26:51

in another sign that the end is near,

26:53

a couple of stories have come

26:55

out in the last day. One

26:58

from the Boston Herald, Andrew Callahan and Doug Kied, the

27:00

other from Chad Graff and the Athletic, in

27:03

which Bill Belichick takes a hellacious beating.

27:06

And it feels to me like the Athletic thing, heavily

27:08

slanted in the favor of ownership, which

27:11

would lead one to believe a lot of the information came

27:13

from that side of it. So

27:15

that's a tell that not only are the

27:17

crafts not protecting Bill Belichick

27:19

here at the end, they

27:21

might be piling on a bit at the end. And

27:25

letting out some information that would make them

27:27

moving on from him more

27:30

publicly palatable because of all the things

27:32

that he screwed up. And all

27:34

the things that Robert got right or Bill got wrong. And

27:37

why are you moving on from the grass coach of all time? Well,

27:40

read that story in the Athletic. You'll know why. The

27:43

Herald one is a little less ownership slanted.

27:45

The ownership is not really mentioned that much.

27:49

So I think this is more, I think the

27:51

Herald stuff is more about the infighting that's gone

27:53

on there among the football staff and the players and

27:55

the roster and that sort of stuff. And

27:57

there's some valuable information in here as well. Andrew

28:02

Callahan points out that the Patriots ranked dead

28:04

last in scoring in the NFL. And to

28:06

unpack that failure, the Herald interviewed more than

28:08

a dozen team sources who spoke on the

28:10

condition of anonymity for fear of retribution from

28:12

the Patriots, which again I will say is

28:14

that is a brilliant way to

28:17

couch the use of anonymous

28:20

sources. We would talk

28:22

on the record, but we don't want to get porked on

28:24

the backside by these guys. Because

28:27

you know they'll do it. Definitely.

28:29

Of course. Over

28:32

months sources described an offense

28:34

undone by a quieter type

28:36

of dysfunction than the one that happened last season

28:38

with Matt Patricia and Joe Judge. But

28:40

over the months sources described an offense undone by

28:43

a quieter type of dysfunction, a broken

28:45

quarterback, and finger pointing between

28:47

the coaching staff and front office. These

28:50

sources paint scenes of a new offensive

28:53

coordinator unsure of his assistance, a

28:56

quarterback's room filled with tense radio

28:58

silence and offensive linemen,

29:00

unofficially working as a coach to

29:02

round out a short-handed staff, another

29:05

veteran proclaiming with four games left he would

29:07

play for another team next season. Quote,

29:09

this was messed up from the beginning, a locker room

29:12

source said. Said

29:14

another quote, nothing like I expected, not at

29:16

all. I'll

29:18

just jump forward here. According

29:21

to some league sources, when

29:24

Bill O'Brien got the job, some assistants

29:26

came to believe that O'Brien wanted to

29:28

clean house and build his own offensive

29:30

staff upon arriving in January, but Belichick

29:32

denied him. Belichick

29:34

allowed only one hire, allowed

29:37

O'Brien only one hire, and that

29:39

was his tight end coach, Will Lawing, who

29:42

replaced tight end coach Nikhili. To

29:45

onlookers, a clear hierarchy

29:47

developed with O'Brien and his assistants. There

29:50

was Lawing and assistant quarterback coach Evan

29:52

Rothstein and then everybody else. Quote,

29:55

the staff dynamic is completely effed,

29:58

a team source said. O'Brien

30:02

pulled the offense closer to him running

30:04

more unit meetings than Belichick and Patricia

30:06

had the year before. Consequently

30:09

positional meetings became scarce, sources

30:11

said, which limited individual time

30:14

shared between players and their positional

30:16

coaches. Most everything flowed

30:18

through O'Brien. So I think this was

30:20

one of the more damning details in the thing. It

30:23

was also pointed out that Belichick did not want to move on

30:25

from Patricia and Judge. So

30:27

he was convinced to do

30:29

it, but he

30:31

didn't let Bill O'Brien bring his own staff. He

30:33

only let O'Brien bring in one guy. He

30:36

resented the fact he even came back. Yep.

30:39

So how did Bill O'Brien respond? Well,

30:42

if you're not gonna let me pick my individual

30:44

staff members, receivers, offensive

30:46

line coaches, if these aren't my guys, screw

30:49

it. I'll just have more

30:51

full offensive team meetings and

30:53

not allow Clam or Troy Brown or

30:56

Douglas or whoever that other receivers

30:58

coach was, I'll just talk

31:00

to these guys directly. We'll have more full

31:02

offensive meetings and fewer individual positional coach meetings

31:04

and that's how I'll bypass that thing where

31:07

they didn't let me have my assistant coaches.

31:09

Right. I'm not gonna deliver the message through

31:11

my assistants because I didn't pick my assistants

31:13

and I can't trust them. Those aren't my

31:15

assistants. Right. They're not my guys, they're Bill's

31:17

guys, Belichick's guys. That story to me,

31:20

that detail illustrates

31:23

why when people call and

31:25

say, well they should just

31:27

take away Belichick's GM duties and keep him as

31:29

the coach, I say you can't do it that

31:31

way. You can't split

31:33

the baby in Africa's Bill will undermine

31:35

it. So again, it's my belief and

31:37

I think many people's belief that

31:40

Robert Kraft wanted Bill O'Brien here

31:42

as the offensive coordinator. Bill

31:45

Belichick resisted it. Didn't

31:47

even want O'Brien here. Kind of half-assed the

31:49

whole process with the OC in the first

31:51

place but Kraft kind of forced it. Okay,

31:53

we're gonna bring in Bill O'Brien. So what

31:56

does Belichick do? All right, fine. I'll

31:58

take Bill O'Brien. I know Bill. I've had him before. But

32:00

he can't bring his people. Bingo! But Bill O'Brien

32:02

asked him to hire his assistants

32:05

on the staff. Nope, can't do it. So

32:07

Bill gets in his way, Bill obstructs, he

32:09

becomes an obstructionist. And O'Brien responds by saying,

32:12

well fine, then I won't have my guys

32:14

talk to their assistant or the positional coaches. They'll talk

32:16

to me in the full team meeting. So Mike right

32:18

out of the gate, right out

32:20

of the gate, instead of

32:22

the being on the same page for

32:24

the good of the football team, they

32:27

are fighting over territory

32:29

so that one can have greater influence

32:31

over the offense than the other. As

32:33

O'Brien writes, O'Brien's frustration with the wide

32:35

receivers and offensive line coaches began

32:38

bubbling as soon as the late spring. Both

32:42

positional groups feature underdeveloped high draft

32:44

picks and rank among the league's

32:46

worst units. Adrian

32:48

Clem oversaw the offensive line until he took

32:50

a health-related leave of absence in late October

32:53

while Douglas and longtime receivers coach Troy Brown

32:55

handled the Whiteouts. Members

32:58

of the front office shared O'Brien's frustration with the

33:00

lack of development as the season wore on. Quote,

33:02

it's just a lot of bad bleep, another

33:05

team source said, bad coaching. Meanwhile...

33:12

Always a damning word in prayer. Meanwhile,

33:15

other sources wonder about where the

33:17

players were coming from. That's me speaking. Here's

33:19

the quote. Quote, we didn't invest

33:22

in the offensive line until the fourth round, didn't

33:24

take a receiver until the sixth, a third source

33:26

said, and I'm gonna add a team source since

33:28

he said we. A

33:30

team source said we didn't invest in the offensive line

33:32

until the fourth round, didn't take a receiver until the

33:34

sixth. How do we spend the

33:36

first three picks on defense when tackle was the biggest

33:38

problem on the team last year? End quote. So

33:41

you see what went on here. Kraft

33:43

wanted, excuse me, Belichick wanted to keep Patricia and

33:45

Judge. Kraft said no, you're gonna have to bring

33:48

Bill O'Brien in. Bill

33:50

says fine, bring an O'Brien, but he doesn't have to pick

33:52

the staff. I get to pick the staff. O'Brien

33:54

gets in and says well, these aren't my assistant coaches. So

33:57

I'm not gonna have the players deal with these assistant coaches.

33:59

I'm gonna have them deal. with me. Now

34:01

they all start smoking. And

34:04

they point to Bill O'Brien and Bill O'Brien

34:06

says, well, wait a minute. I

34:08

didn't pick these assistant coaches. This isn't my staff.

34:10

Don't blame me. They look

34:13

at the assistant coaches and assistant coaches say, well, don't

34:15

blame us. Bill O'Brien wouldn't let us talk to the

34:17

players. They were talking to the players. We were doing

34:19

full team meetings and not positional group meetings. And oh,

34:21

by the way, we needed offensive linemen and we didn't

34:23

draft anyone until the fourth round and they signed Riley

34:25

Weith, not Orlando Brown. Don't look at us.

34:29

Cover your ass. Pointing fingers. Knives are out.

34:31

It's over in a million different directions. This

34:33

is what happens at the end, folks. And

34:37

if you thought there was a path for Belichick to return, I don't

34:39

think there is. And if you

34:41

thought they were going to somehow be immune to

34:43

these things, which I frankly thought they would, I

34:46

thought it would be different here. And I'm

34:48

not telling you like I thought that last week,

34:50

but if you would dial back five years

34:52

ago, right? I would have, they would have been

34:54

more on top of it. They wouldn't end

34:56

like every other bleep show in sports seems to

34:59

end that they would be different because they

35:01

were so different for the whole time. And

35:03

it turns out they're not like everybody else.

35:06

It's his fault. No, it's that guy's fault. No, it's his

35:08

fault. No, it's a wall. Look, I wanted to keep him.

35:10

Look, the

35:12

reason I let Brady out of that contract because that was to

35:14

keep him to stay. That wasn't to let him go. I thought

35:16

that was going to get him to stay at bill. It is

35:18

one that screwed that up. I was listening to Bill and don't

35:20

look at me. They won't let me talk to my players. They're

35:23

going to the full team meetings. Well, don't look at me. Those

35:26

aren't my assistant coaches. Well, don't look at

35:28

me or players. I don't pick the players.

35:30

That's that nerd upstairs. He didn't draft alignment

35:33

until the fourth round. Oh,

35:35

that's what they're doing. And

35:38

it all comes to an end. Maybe as soon as Monday, maybe

35:40

as soon as Monday. And I didn't feel that way until today, but

35:44

Bill Balczyk might be a black Monday casualty.

35:46

After all, he might be. Wouldn't that be

35:48

amazing? More details in your reaction in our

35:50

one commercial Dallas

35:52

football fans, the championship game is here

35:54

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helpline ma.org. 21

36:36

or older and playing smart from the

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start. gamesensma.com. Individually present in Massachusetts, all

36:40

has been expired 168 hours after issuance,

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of live terms at

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sportsbook.draftgings.com/football terms. Belger

36:54

and Mass continues on the

36:56

Sports Hub. Walk

36:59

us through it. What should we expect to

37:02

happen after Sunday's game? All

37:06

right, Greaney, here's my understanding of what's

37:08

going to unfold. Team owner

37:10

Robert Kraft, team president Jonathan

37:12

Kraft have a meeting with

37:14

Bill Belichick that is currently

37:16

scheduled for Monday, and

37:18

they're going to be looking for

37:20

some answers as to why things

37:22

have fallen off so dramatically this

37:24

season. Robert Kraft has been

37:27

very disappointed with the way this

37:29

season has unfolded naturally, and

37:31

people that are close to him relate

37:34

to me that that disappointment has been

37:36

so extreme to the point that he

37:38

has strongly considered moving on from Belichick,

37:40

but these people also tell me, Greaney,

37:42

that no decision has been made at

37:44

this point, and that's why this final

37:47

meeting will be so important. So

37:56

hearing that the meeting is Monday was

37:58

also, I told you. I never

38:00

thought Belichick would be part of the Black Monday

38:02

crew. But

38:05

after hearing that, I wonder, and after reading the stuff

38:08

today, I wonder if it's

38:10

on the table. I still would bet against

38:12

it. You know, I

38:16

mean, that's a pretty big indignity. I mean,

38:18

they gave them the courtesy of letting them finishing out the year,

38:20

but now you're going to fire them on

38:22

Black Monday alongside like Ron Rivera

38:24

and frickin' Frack and like all the

38:27

crap that gets tossed to the side

38:29

on the first day after the season ends. He's going

38:31

to be part of that group. I

38:34

still don't see it, but a Monday meeting, I

38:36

don't know, I think

38:38

is telling. I mean, it

38:40

doesn't, you know, that doesn't

38:42

outrage or affect me the way

38:45

that it would affect you if it goes on Monday. Like

38:48

I think- Oh, I'm not outraged. I think it would

38:50

be dramatic. Yeah, it would be dramatic. That

38:52

part I'll agree. Oh, no, they should let them go

38:54

on Monday. I'm surprised that the date

38:56

of the meeting came out. Yeah. When

38:59

I heard this, I went, whoa, like

39:02

they're giving us an actual time. Like

39:04

we're letting you know or through, you know,

39:06

through Reese or whoever that the meeting is

39:09

on Monday. Like that came out Monday and

39:12

there's no way it came out from Bill's side. It's

39:14

not like, you know, let it settle for a little

39:16

bit. Think, think. No, no, no.

39:18

Monday. Yeah, we're going to know. You

39:20

might know right away. I was stunned that that was

39:22

made public because even

39:25

if someone asks, well, we're going to

39:27

meet at the beginning of the week. I think we haven't really

39:29

finalized that yet, but we'll let you know. They

39:31

could very- Yes. That's usually

39:33

how they do it. They don't tell you because

39:35

if they tell you Monday morning, what does every

39:38

media person do? Call Monday

39:40

at 1201. Right? Like as

39:42

soon as they get to PM, I'm calling. You've had

39:44

the meeting. What happened? Right? So

39:47

now everybody knows. Are we going to have a

39:49

decision by noon? Make their name in a

39:51

pulp or something? You know what I mean? There's

39:53

now a clear signal or

39:56

time where it's going to go down. I

39:58

was surprised that that came out. I did not think

40:00

that that piece of information would be made public. So

40:03

to me this is like... If I were Bill I'd

40:05

be pissed at that. It's all just crystallizing. Why?

40:08

Because, you know, again... Ownership's

40:10

talking. They are, but again, now that's

40:12

like, that's pretty bleak. Yeah, no, no.

40:15

I mean, that's a reason for Bill to be pissed. Like, I

40:17

thought we were going to keep this in-house and, you

40:20

know, keep it on the up and up and... Well,

40:22

I'll tell you what. That athletic story and

40:25

the detail we're meeting Monday, it doesn't

40:28

sound particularly elegant

40:31

as Robert created, the elegant solution and the

40:34

elegant parting in this middle

40:36

path of a, you know, a

40:42

happy ending, sorry for the analogy, but you know

40:45

what I mean. Maybe they're pissed. So...

40:48

Maybe they're pissed. And this is like why I say part

40:50

of the time... I think I mentioned this the other day.

40:53

That part of me looks at it and says, you know,

40:56

Robert gives you kind of the happy face elegant solution,

40:58

but at the end of the day, he's run a

41:00

lot of businesses made up. A lot of

41:02

tough decisions over the years and my guess is on a lot

41:05

of them, you know, bad and nice. And

41:07

I'm not criticizing him for it because to do,

41:09

you know, you've got to be cold. And

41:12

I think there's some coldness there. If I'll give Bill

41:14

a check, excuse me, Bill a check credit for anything at

41:17

this hour, it's that

41:19

I don't feel like he's fired back. I

41:22

don't... And again, to me, the athletic story weeks

41:24

of, you know, as

41:26

a slanted piece, which doesn't make

41:28

it bad, like it's insightful and I liked it,

41:30

but I think it's heavily slanted

41:32

towards ownership. I think the

41:35

Herald piece is, you know, all the infighting,

41:38

but I don't hear Bill in here. I

41:40

didn't hear Bill in either story. And

41:43

I don't know where I've heard Bill at all. It's

41:46

got to be coming, I hope. Bill

41:49

617-779-0985. I

41:53

mean, he's got to have... Where

41:56

is he going to get his say? I haven't heard it yet. So maybe

41:59

it's just... just not coming out at the crafts. You

42:01

know, there have been little digs along the way,

42:04

but the ones that are in the story, stadium

42:06

facilities, things like that. Well, no, no, but that

42:08

wasn't Bill, that was the crafts complaining

42:10

that Bill didn't play us enough tribute for

42:12

the things we did with the stadium. No,

42:14

but I'm saying that Bill said at Vegas,

42:16

whoa, this is the Taj Mahal. No, no,

42:18

no, yes, over the, yes, no, I think,

42:20

little digs. In the past weeks and months

42:22

and years, he's taken veiled shots at Mac

42:25

Jones, at his stadium and other, I'm

42:27

talking about in the current, media

42:30

cycle. Where? Hasn't

42:32

come out yet. I haven't heard Bill in

42:34

the current media cycle with his

42:36

grievances and how he was done wrong. I

42:38

haven't heard it yet. Maybe he's taking the

42:40

high road. That's

42:42

a good one. Well,

42:45

he hasn't been fired yet. It's a

42:47

good one. Yeah, but he knows it's coming. Well, I mean,

42:49

if he didn't before today, he does now. I mean, my

42:52

guess is we'll hear it next week. 617-779-0985. We'll

42:57

give you the studio line. In fact, if

42:59

any of his friends are out there, email or text me if you

43:01

have my number. Let me tell you. I'll tell you where he can

43:04

call. We no longer have Dickman there, Lee Dickman out in front. No

43:06

one's gonna stop you at the door like they tried

43:08

to stop John Henry. He was, Henry finally got in,

43:11

but Dickman couldn't figure out who he was. We had none

43:13

of that. You can walk right in. We'll open up the front

43:15

door for you. Anytime. I'm Bill, I wanna

43:18

be on the radio. Yeah, I'm good.

43:20

Yeah, I'm here to see if I was right. I

43:23

don't know. More your reaction. Everyone wants

43:25

to be on the radio. I promise

43:27

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