0:00

Look out. It's all my films to be buried

0:02

with. Hello,

0:15

and welcome to films to be buried with. My

0:18

name is Brett Goldstein. I am a comedian,

0:20

an actor, a writer, a director, an

0:22

insect repellent, and I love films.

0:24

As Desmond Tutu once said, in

0:27

many ways, when you're a Nobel Peace laureate,

0:29

you have an obligation to humankind, to

0:31

society, in the same way that the

0:33

Avengers have an obligation to deliver satisfactorily

0:36

on their end game, and they bloody better.

0:39

We thank you. Desmond Tuo too had no idea you were

0:41

so into the franchise. Every week

0:43

I invite special guests over. I tell them they've

0:45

died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films

0:47

that meant the most of them. Previous guests include

0:50

Jamila Jamil, Ricky Gervais, and Mark

0:52

Kermod But this week my special guest

0:54

is the writer, actor, magician, musician

0:57

and director Andy Nyeman. I'm

1:00

in LA for a few months, so I'm going to try

1:02

and record as many guests as I can out

1:04

here. I've got some wicked people

1:06

signed up. Oh come in soon,

1:09

so keep up to date with all these shows

1:11

and the stand up gigs and everything by following

1:13

me on Twitter at Brett Goldstein and

1:15

on Instagram at mister Brett Goldstein, and

1:18

I'll let you know everything you need to know. If

1:21

you do enjoy the show and you want to support

1:23

it and get more content, please

1:25

come and join me over at patreon dot

1:27

com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where

1:29

you'll get extra guest questions for most episodes,

1:32

you'll get videos, you'll get guest list tickets,

1:34

recommendations, all sorts of stuff in

1:36

the extras. This week, Andy and I discussed

1:38

the power of documentary films how one

1:40

of them changed his life, and we also pick

1:43

the ultimate beginning to a film and the

1:45

ending, but the beginning is like, yeah, it's definitely

1:47

that one. Anyway. Remember,

1:49

best of all, if you do become a Patreo member,

1:52

not only do you get all this extra good stuff, you

1:54

don't ever have to hear this bit again about

1:57

becoming a Patriot member. You get the whole

1:59

episode. There's no ads, there's none of this

2:01

bullshit. You just get it pure and

2:03

uncut. So give it a look over at

2:05

patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein.

2:08

So here we go Andy Nieman,

2:10

who had never met properly invited me to

2:12

his dressing room where he's doing a random Fiddler

2:14

on the roof at the Playhouse theater, and

2:16

we had such a nice time. I

2:19

was listening back to this episode and the first ten

2:21

minutes is pretty much me just telling him how

2:23

brilliant I think he is. But frankly, he is.

2:25

And I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did.

2:28

We had such a nice time. He's a lovely

2:30

man. So that is it for now. I very

2:32

much hope you enjoy episode forty

2:35

two of Films to be Buried

2:37

With. Hello,

2:48

and welcome to Films to be Buried With. I

2:51

am he Brett Goldstein, and I am joined

2:53

today by a actor,

2:56

a writer, a magician,

2:58

a creator, a

3:02

mister retor, director, a

3:05

contributor to the arts,

3:08

a good man, a singer,

3:11

and a hero. Please, welcome to the show,

3:13

is mister Andy and Iver. I'm

3:17

already embarrassed. I am

3:19

joining, and he's very kindly invited me

3:21

to his dressing room at the Playhouse

3:24

where you are currently doing Figure on

3:26

the Roof, which I saw at

3:28

the many a yeah, pronounced it yea

3:31

before it transferred and it

3:33

was phenomenal and you were

3:36

exquisite. Thank you. And

3:38

I tell you what I thought many things, if I may,

3:40

One is that part is so iconic

3:43

and iconically played by Topple

3:46

that to to bring something into it, I

3:48

was like, funk, that was brilliant. And what

3:50

you add that I've never seen before was

3:53

rage. And the bit

3:55

in the dancing when you turn into I was

3:57

like, fuck, that was so great. I

4:00

never see it really made it. It made it

4:02

like four fucking no, this is thank

4:04

you, this is a life. And

4:07

the other thing I thought, if I may please, obviously

4:09

I've seen for them on the roof, but I haven't seen it in

4:11

years. It's bloody good. It's

4:13

a really really good bit of storytelling. It's

4:16

a remarkable piece of writing. And to be honest,

4:18

I think it's

4:21

undervaluedly. I think

4:23

that you know clearly it's a show

4:26

that is in the DNA of life.

4:28

The songs are famous without people even knowing they're

4:30

from there, and if they do not, it's there. There's this sort

4:32

of oh, it's a cozy sort of yes.

4:34

I saw it when I was a kid. I saw the film. It's cozy

4:37

and fun. It's not I

4:39

mean it is. You could take the songs

4:41

away and that play stands

4:44

there. I honestly believe, alongside

4:46

Arthur Miller, I think that writing

4:48

is fucking extraordinary,

4:52

honest and painful and funny

4:54

without I mean, the gags are brilliant, but

4:57

not a stick. I mean they're utter truth

4:59

and they're real. And it's

5:02

so honest about marriage and pair ahead

5:05

and the immigrant

5:07

experience and being poor and

5:10

being Jewish. All those things are

5:12

separate from each other. It's not like, you

5:14

know, oh it's just a jew thing. I mean,

5:16

it's an amazing piece of writing. And

5:18

the structure. I'd never realized the structure

5:20

of it. There's a rule of three shows. It's a rule. It's

5:23

just a classic three daughters.

5:25

Each time it gets worse. Oh yeah, I mean actually

5:28

should be called kicker man. When he's down. It's

5:31

so good. Yeah. Well, and congratulations

5:34

and you're now here doing it for a while.

5:37

We're here for a while. Yeah, And it's amazing.

5:39

I mean, it's it sells out,

5:42

you know, you come out. It's one thing at the Manya when

5:44

it's you know, it's two hundred seats and you're

5:47

doing this brilliant intimate production

5:49

and then you get here where to

5:51

the playhouse theater that should be a

5:54

nine hundred seats and they've ripped two

5:57

hundred seats out for this production because

5:59

of the way they've changed the design. So

6:01

you're playing to seven hundred people and you

6:03

come out and I come out at the top of the show

6:05

for Tradition, and I look up and it is

6:09

rammed night after night. That's

6:11

amazing site

6:13

exciting. Now as

6:15

for film, yes, now,

6:19

I'm sure everyone knows you made thy stories exception

6:22

within just come back now it's back again. Yes

6:24

it is? Is it different? It

6:26

is? It's not hugely different. It's

6:28

sort of our original production, mine

6:31

and Jeremy Dyson's original production, which has

6:33

been remounted from our original direction

6:36

and design and stuff. It's slightly finagled.

6:39

The design. It's the best design we've ever had

6:41

for it. It's the same designer, but just lessons

6:43

you learn from revisiting things, and in

6:46

exactly the same way. There are a couple

6:48

of moments in the play

6:50

that we've rewritten from lessons we've learned

6:52

over the decade it's been around and the

6:54

film we made of it, and you just think, oh,

6:56

that kind of worked brilliantly in the film. Maybe we should

6:59

poach that and put in there, and that

7:01

line never quite worked, so let's just twist it

7:03

to that. Um So, in

7:05

some respects it feels like the tightest

7:07

version it's ever been. And the reviews, the reviews

7:10

now better than they were originally. Well

7:12

you know, and they were really good originally. This has

7:14

been like fucking hell. Well. So

7:16

I went to see the film at the London Film Festival.

7:19

Yeah, and it blew my my, was

7:21

fucking brilliant. And I was really

7:24

because i'd read an interview with you and I thought it's

7:26

very interesting that you'd said early on

7:28

when you when the show Fights came out, there's an interview

7:30

where people are like, oh, you're gonna make this into

7:32

a film, and you were like, but the play is playing

7:35

on films, so I don't quite know how we turn it

7:37

into a film. And then I saw it.

7:39

I was like, yeah, you do it like that you worked

7:42

and it had you seen the play? I had play,

7:44

and I thought of I went because I'm a fan and I

7:47

wanted. I was interested, but I was really

7:50

it was like a great fucking ghost

7:52

train ride, a short, tight,

7:55

scary but I also found it incredibly

7:58

emotional. It felt much more most

8:00

be satisfying, well moving

8:02

and sort of horrific. God.

8:05

I mean literally, you're saying everything that I want

8:07

anybody to ever say that I'm

8:09

reading this script. Yeah, exactly, thanks. But

8:12

that is that's where the film and

8:14

the play are so different. You know. The play,

8:17

I mean, you know, it has the same secrets

8:19

and the same truths, but the play is a

8:22

roller coaster ride that you're

8:24

sort of in some respects carried

8:26

away by just sort of the hutspur of it. You can't

8:29

quite believe what you're

8:31

seeing in all respects. You know, it's

8:33

to me it's I don't mean our players the best

8:35

of theater, but it uses all the things

8:37

that make theater so invigorating and exciting

8:40

when it works. The film's a different

8:42

thing. So the film isn't a

8:44

roller coaster riding quite the same way, and it has

8:46

a sort of we really wanted to mind that

8:48

emotional world a bit more so. It has a real melancholy

8:51

to it that sort of out

8:54

of season seaside England has

8:57

about it, which is which is one of them, you

8:59

know, because they wanted There are a couple of American

9:01

companies that wanted to take it and make it and take

9:03

it out our hands, and we sort of turn

9:05

them all down and stuff. Because there's

9:08

something that that's unique

9:10

about our Britishness

9:12

and our British experience that's very

9:15

different from small town America or larger

9:17

America. And

9:20

that's one of the things I think Jeremy and I really

9:22

love with the film is that it has that

9:27

thing that that makes us all, God,

9:29

let's just get inside and have a cup of tea, feel

9:32

that is Britain. Yeah, in

9:34

the beginning, I remember the sort

9:36

of beginning the credits with the

9:38

story. Yeah, like it's it's

9:40

great, it's really but again, that's

9:43

serious and thank you. That's

9:45

a very I mean, let's not

9:47

get onto this because honestly, we're not going to

9:49

talk about any of your But the

9:51

truth is the British Jewish experience

9:54

is almost never

9:57

ever talked about filmed

10:00

captured aside from you know, you can point

10:02

to literally I can think of two things

10:04

that do it properly to me. One is Grandma's

10:06

House. Yes, I think it's an extraordinary

10:09

piece of work that is

10:12

brilliantly British and Jewish without being

10:15

Jewish and the

10:17

other is Bermitsula. Boy. Right, you know

10:19

Jack Rosenthal's work from

10:21

from the late seventies

10:23

when that generation of British

10:26

Jews and they're sort of not there anymore, that

10:28

generation that you know, what I think was

10:30

the cabbies, you know, the sort of the working

10:32

class, first generation British

10:36

you know, immigrant Jews, and that's

10:38

sort of vanished world.

10:40

So it's really not reflected. You

10:42

don't get our experience much. So,

10:45

you know, Jeremy and I met at Jewish so I

10:47

camp when we were kids. Yeah. Yeah, so

10:49

that's another world we wanted to dig into.

10:51

But anyway, it's fantastic anyway,

10:54

I mean it's really good. Do you want to make more films?

10:56

Yeah? Is that a big Yeah? Well you should

10:58

Yeah. Thanks like that. And

11:01

as an actor, I first saw you in

11:03

dead Set. That is when I first came away with you. Wow,

11:05

It's like, fuck, he's funny, thank

11:10

you, very funny. Well, I hadn't done a Telly

11:12

for ten years. Wow, I'm

11:14

a bit funny about Telly, and

11:16

I'd sort of stayed away from it. And I've

11:19

got a call from my agent saying, we

11:21

know you're a bit funny about Telly. Not because it's

11:23

not because not being

11:26

recognized. I

11:28

was in a process of changing

11:30

my career, not changing my career to be anything

11:33

different from an actor. But I've been an actor for

11:35

like fifteen years, and

11:38

you know, there only so many sort of there's

11:40

a funny tool guy and a short guy

11:43

in this advert you want to do, or oh,

11:45

he's a really interesting he's the best mate, he's funny,

11:48

you know, and it's just like, Okay, that's not

11:50

what I want from my career. That's not who I want

11:52

to be. That's not why I became

11:54

an actor. I became an actor because I

11:56

worshiped the hero and Pecino

11:59

and those guys. That's what you

12:01

know. I'm not saying that's what I've achieved, but

12:04

that's what that's my idea of what acting

12:06

was. So I

12:09

had done a lot of work and then ended

12:11

up I got a film, my first

12:14

film as a thing called Dead Babies, which was this

12:16

Martin Amis. It was me, Paul Beckney,

12:18

Olivia Williams, Christine Slomino,

12:20

Charlie Kondo, really brilliant cast

12:23

that ended up vanishing. But nevertheless, for me,

12:25

it was a baptism of fire because it was like that

12:27

was my life's ambition fulfilled a

12:30

proper lead playing an extraordinary

12:33

character in this brave odd

12:36

film. So the I Foam agent said, that's

12:38

it. No more little parts, no more

12:40

this, no more that. I'm going to go to LA and

12:43

I'm just going to do nice parts in films and good

12:46

roles on stage.

12:49

And she said, well, that's brilliant. We think that's brilliant.

12:51

Will support you. You'll never ever work,

12:54

just say, you know. So

12:57

I was like, that's okay, because I'll do you

13:00

know, bits of magic, or I'll do this, or I'll do

13:03

kids parties. I'll do whatever it takes. It's

13:06

fine. But I can't because

13:09

the bits and bobs I've done on Telly by

13:11

then were literally what I described,

13:14

you know, little best made so this that, and I just thought,

13:16

fuck that. That's no judgment

13:18

on people making living playing those roles or doing those

13:20

roles. It's only about what was in my head. And

13:23

it's hard enough in this business with the demons you have

13:25

trying to sort of keep everything at base or your self

13:27

confidence is okay. I just I don't

13:29

want that's not what I want, So I stayed away from

13:31

it for ten years. I

13:33

also think because of Telly. If you're not careful,

13:36

you can choose something that feels like a good idea, or

13:38

you do a job that inadvertently takes off, and

13:40

then you're trapped. And I never

13:42

wanted to be trapped. I've always wanted to be able

13:44

to just be different and play

13:46

different roles. And so

13:49

then I got this call from my agent saying, we

13:51

know that you're funny about Telly, but there's

13:53

this thing called Balloon Wars, which is

13:55

the working title, and it's written

13:58

by a guy called Charlie Brooker. Well, I

14:01

literally by the time they got to the r of

14:03

Brooker, I was like, yes, yes,

14:05

whatever, Yes it was the little best

14:07

Mate. I mean, yeah, I don't care. And

14:10

well they sent it was only sort of one

14:12

episode. They only had the first

14:14

at which Patrick wasn't in that much,

14:16

or a couple of scenes. But I just devoured

14:19

this thing. Holy shit, the writing,

14:21

and it was so amazing because Charlie's

14:23

extraordinary, as he's now gone on to display.

14:26

But at that point, you know, I knew his writings

14:28

and as a sort of satirist

14:30

and as a critic, but what was

14:32

amazing was seeing what I'd always suspected,

14:35

which was his weirdly

14:37

as as sort of bile filled and

14:39

acidic as Charlie's writing. I'm

14:42

not going about his drama writing, but his critiquing

14:45

and his stuff was it always

14:47

had a sense of warmth about it that was, this

14:49

is coming from a place of disappointment at how

14:51

good things should be and aren't.

14:54

And what was amazing about his writing

14:56

was, holy fuck, he can write

14:58

it to be as good it should be.

15:01

So then I went and met the director

15:03

yander Man, who's gone on to do seventy

15:06

one and White Boy Rick I think

15:08

it's called them, right, yeah, and

15:10

I just thought, God, I love him as well.

15:13

I mean, he's you know, he's a man really.

15:16

Oh yeah, he's a proper

15:19

in a great way. You

15:21

know, he's a proper alpha

15:23

male, no fucking about. And I loved

15:26

that because that was one of the things. By then I've done so much

15:28

theater, and one of the things about theater

15:30

is I was getting very bored of hearing

15:33

actors wasting time. Yeah,

15:35

it's supposed to just getting up and doing it. The

15:37

flip of that is a course on film, and Telly very

15:40

often you like, can we just not discuss the scene

15:42

at least once? Can we

15:44

not do something that resembles rehearsals,

15:46

for fuck's sake, please, Otherwise it's

15:48

just you know. So.

15:51

But then I met them and got it and it was it

15:54

was oh

15:57

andy. I got to tell you something.

15:59

Yeah. Fuck, it's really

16:01

bad that I haven't told you this. I

16:05

don't know how you'll feel about it. You sort of like scary

16:08

things. I don't know if you will even be scared of this, but I'll

16:10

just say it. You

16:13

died, You died, okay,

16:16

I'm so sorry, and you had that say coming up.

16:18

I know it was all going well. And now

16:20

how did he die peacefully? In my

16:22

sleep? Really? Like my grandpa

16:25

Benny of a Shoalm did he Yeah?

16:27

Proper literally not an ill day

16:30

in his life. Yeah, went to

16:32

bed, didn't wake up. I think it was seventy

16:34

five. Really just pay good money

16:36

for that, wouldn't you? I mean you really

16:38

really would. So I haven't

16:40

got a funny my

16:43

cancer. The way you want to go, isn't

16:45

it? Well, it's just sleep,

16:48

yeah, I mean maybe eighty five, choice

16:51

eighty five and still being able to go and have a week.

16:54

Have you had your last week? Yeah?

16:56

That takes six months of the final

16:59

which midnight we as opposed

17:01

to the eleven PM we the midnight, the

17:03

one am and the three am, maybe one at

17:05

five as well. So between the three

17:07

and five we Yeah, you've gone back to

17:09

bed, Yeah, next to your way, Yeah,

17:12

sleep dead? Okay? Do

17:14

you worry about death? I don't worry

17:16

about death, No, because that doesn't

17:18

feed into hypochondria. Death's

17:20

death slight. Oh that's okay, I mean, God forbid.

17:23

I worry about a miserable, slow, horrible,

17:25

painful. Yeah, disease

17:27

and demise. I don't worry about the

17:30

last bit dying. No.

17:33

Are you a hypergoe yet? Oh fucking l

17:36

of course I am.

17:38

I'm Jewish,

17:42

of course I am illness

17:44

and yeah, yeah,

17:47

but death is a blessed relief. H

17:50

yeah, with the classic grave. So told

17:52

you mamazil. And

17:55

what about an afterlife? Do you

17:57

do you think there's one? How do you feel about

17:59

that? I don't think that. I

18:02

think I think it's lights out,

18:04

which doesn't bother me. No,

18:06

no, because it's not like, oh that's terrifying. What

18:08

about the blackness and the darkness And that's just what sleep

18:11

is, isn't it. And it's just like it's not

18:13

like, you know, aside from night terrors.

18:16

The only difference, you know, death, is you're not getting up

18:18

to weir anymore. It's a bit of relief. It's

18:21

really relaxed selling

18:23

it. Yeah, I've got a couple of plots

18:25

I need to get rid of on Brett. Yeah,

18:29

well I have. I have good news if

18:32

you unless you like more sleep Yeah,

18:36

yeah, okay, surprise. Yeah,

18:38

there's a heaven. It's great

18:40

to do acting in it. Everyone's

18:43

pretty great there. But everyone there is obsessed with film,

18:45

and all they want to know, weirdly is

18:48

about your life but through film. Okay,

18:50

first thing they ask you is what is the very first

18:52

film you remember seeing. It's

18:54

quite a hard one, yeah, because

18:56

I'm sure this isn't the first film I saw, and

18:59

what's changed a lot. I think

19:01

when you'll be doing this deeply popular

19:03

podcast thirty years from now and

19:06

you'll be asking people who were babies

19:08

and teenagers now what their first film was,

19:10

it will be well, I was on the tube and

19:12

I on my phone. Yeah,

19:16

yeah, So whereas my

19:20

first memories are

19:22

since you are probably going to the pictures,

19:24

right, and one

19:27

of the first films I really

19:29

remember seeing at the pictures, I

19:31

remember experiences of coming away from the pictures,

19:34

like terrible memory

19:36

of going to see Mary Poppins

19:40

um where for some weird

19:42

reason, we've gone on the bus and

19:44

we were at the bus stop, me, my sister

19:46

and my mum and in a weird I

19:49

was been so little, I

19:53

didn't even know if this is real or

19:55

not, sort of invented

19:58

in my head, but I remember it quite clearly, and

20:00

the sort of oh we can fly way.

20:02

I sort of lifted my mum's skirt up at

20:04

the at

20:07

the bus stop and she was rightly livid,

20:11

fucking screamed at me. I seem

20:13

to remember. I think that probably did happen,

20:15

Yeah you remember, yeah,

20:18

so. But one of the first

20:20

films I can promperly remember seeing

20:23

at the Pictures was The Man who would be King,

20:26

And my grandpa, Louis Evasholm

20:28

took us. And one of the reasons I

20:30

remember it so clearly is

20:40

because we went sat down, so you

20:43

know, my grandpa took

20:45

me and where was it, where's

20:47

this happening? This was the ABC and Leicester,

20:51

so my grandpa was down from Leeds. He

20:54

took me and my sister, I think my

20:56

older sister Karen. It would have been how

20:58

many sister

21:00

And then we sat down to watch it, and

21:03

I realized that I

21:07

actually wasn't with my grandpa

21:09

or my sister. I should have gone

21:11

off with As we got to the top of the stairs, some of

21:14

them bloke sitting

21:17

next to them. Um.

21:19

So there was a sort of that way. That's

21:22

maybe why that film resonated

21:24

so much. Was I

21:27

think before the film started, I

21:29

think my grandpa

21:32

then was sort of looking for me.

21:35

But it also spoke volumes about what my grandpa

21:37

was like, the fact we sort he was a bit not dithery

21:40

but not quite you know, could have been

21:42

more assertive. And I think, you know,

21:44

it was sort of a bit confused taking two little

21:46

kids. So I

21:48

remember that. But more than

21:50

the film

21:52

playing a part in it, it was really

21:55

the whole proper experience of being at the pictures.

21:57

Yeah, and I miss that. I

22:00

love going to the pictures still, but

22:02

fuck me, the audiences drive me insane

22:05

now in a way they never used to. The Democrat,

22:08

you know, the whole sort of the whole phones,

22:11

the amount of food, but

22:13

I mean it drives me nuts. The chatter

22:16

drives me nuts. Now I realize I just

22:18

sound middle aged, but has

22:22

changed a lot. I'm very careful

22:24

about when I go. I pick times

22:26

when I think people won't be there. Yeah,

22:29

but it can literally take one other person

22:32

to ruin it's you know, you think,

22:34

great, oh, it's empty, brilliant, this would be good.

22:37

It creepy but good, and then

22:39

one of the person comes in five rows in front

22:41

of you, and then they get their phone out halfway

22:43

through the film. You're like, you fucking ruined it for me.

22:45

Yeah, you can't.

22:48

This is a perfect experience for

22:52

me. Happy,

22:55

You've ruined Happy Death Day two for me?

22:57

What's wrong with you? I got her at

22:59

nine am for the captioned

23:01

performance. I'll

23:04

come to stress and you've ruined it.

23:07

Yeah, it was a film

23:09

that made you want to be active. One one,

23:13

it was seeing Richard Dreyfus in Jews

23:16

so good, and it was the film itself

23:18

because you know, that film changed

23:21

film forever in terms

23:23

of how films So yeah, yeah,

23:25

absolutely, But you've never known anything like

23:28

it. There wasn't a film that was a phenomenon like that.

23:30

There wasn't a film that was rolled out at

23:32

many cinemas at the same time. There

23:35

wasn't films that were branded

23:37

with toys at the same time that literally

23:41

it was like a reset button on

23:43

the amount of money films could make, and

23:45

then the Hollywood studios completely changed.

23:47

It's fascinating actually that the impact of that

23:49

film. But that was again, God, I'm

23:51

sounding so Jewish, aren't I? But I can remember

23:54

going to a little independent cinema. It

23:56

was during Pacer was during Passover

23:59

and my own Harold was

24:01

down of a shalom and saying that a lot

24:03

by the way for the nanjis listening. It's

24:05

rest in peace. So when I said, my grandpa

24:08

of a shalom, so my uncle Harold

24:10

had come down and me

24:13

and my dad and my uncle Harold,

24:16

during Passover went

24:19

to see Jaws at the

24:22

Fast Part, which was one of the many little

24:24

independent cinemas but Lester had. You know, we had

24:26

loads, like many places. And

24:28

remember it so clearly, because for those who don't

24:30

know, Passover it's a Jewish festival.

24:33

I'm not even that religious, but this is part

24:35

of my upbringing. You know, these things funny out, these things

24:37

sort of date stamp things for you, and

24:40

you're not allowed to eat certain foods. It's very

24:42

strict. And we went, you

24:44

know, it was like my dad, my uncle and Meal went

24:46

to the pictures to see Jaws, and they bought

24:48

some atube munches. Well

24:50

it literally felt like they were buying a pork spit

24:53

roast. I mean it was. It

24:55

felt so I remember,

24:58

don't tell your mother from Odd's sake. Yeah,

25:04

And we sat there and watched

25:06

Jaws, which my dad had already seen, and

25:09

of course the impact of the film, you know, what is

25:11

fundamentally a fantastic monster movie,

25:14

scared the shit out of me. But

25:17

seeing Richard Dreyfus there, I'd have been

25:20

eleven or twelve, you

25:22

know, a little curly haired Jewish

25:24

guy who didn't look like a

25:26

god on that screen. And

25:29

there I was, little curly haired Jewish

25:31

guy. He was wearing glasses, you know, wearing

25:33

glasses. And there I was a little curly haired

25:35

Jewish kid who wanted to be

25:37

an actor but thought, you've got to be

25:39

gorgeous to do that. You've got

25:41

to look like a film star, you know. And that was one of the

25:44

most amazing things about that, the seventies film

25:47

thing, you know, one of them amazing

25:50

shifts in some of the independent films being amazing,

25:52

which you were seeing film stars who were

25:56

Dustin Hoffman, you know, Roy

25:59

Scheider, Gene

26:01

Hackman, you were looking at proper

26:03

men inverted commas who

26:06

I guess you'd had sort of Bogart and Edward

26:09

g Robinson and people like that many

26:11

years before. But you know, there was

26:13

something about they looked like real

26:15

people, and that was the first

26:18

time, really I'd properly seen

26:20

someone who properly looked like me,

26:22

and I thought that. That made me

26:25

think. Then I already was doing drama

26:27

at school and bits and Bobson liked that. But

26:29

then I thought, that's it. I can do this. Yeah,

26:32

and that was it. Love that. Yeah.

26:34

What's the film that scared you the most? Now,

26:37

you I know, horror?

26:39

Oh god, I love a horror

26:43

and I like that. I really love it.

26:45

I really love it. The film that scared

26:48

me the most is Dark Water. Is

26:51

it the original? I mean, let's

26:53

let's not we even have

26:55

to say remake. I mean, you know, at no

26:57

point in the podcast where the remakes you mention

27:00

if you should have that as a fucking

27:04

you know, yes, the original.

27:07

There's something really interesting about

27:11

the Asian horror films that

27:13

are so close to

27:15

the British horror film go on. This

27:18

sounds fascinating. I don't know where you're going

27:20

with this, and I'd love to hear it. Well, feel

27:23

free to disagree. I

27:26

unlike American horror films, which I ad

27:28

all, there's a fundamentally difference

27:30

in the DNA of who they are and who we are.

27:33

And you know, the biggest difference

27:35

is our confidence volume.

27:39

Here I am, I'm in the room. It's

27:43

a sort of American thing. Not everyone. That's a ridiculous

27:45

generalization, sweeping statement. But if

27:47

you were to make a joke about

27:50

a stock American, that's it.

27:53

If you're making a joke about stock

27:55

brit it's utter embarrassment

27:58

in the room. Sorry, him in the room, don't look me.

28:01

And that notion of

28:03

being constrained by

28:06

social inadequacy, embarrassment

28:09

outward appearance is very akin

28:12

to Japanese

28:14

Chinese tie

28:18

suffocating that sort

28:20

of narrative of politeness

28:23

and not wishing to make waves

28:26

and wanting to be accepted in

28:29

as polite and peaceful away as possible.

28:31

Well, that's very British.

28:35

And also hand in hand with that

28:37

is a sort of mundanity. That's one of the

28:39

things that's always fascinated me with horror

28:41

and ghost stories, and is

28:44

just the humdrumness is the day to day.

28:47

I find that more interesting and more frightening

28:49

than big, extraordinary

28:53

set pieces. Is the idea

28:55

of invisible people, people who

28:57

if they went missing, you don't really notice for

28:59

a couple of months. Where did

29:02

she hasn't been in the office? Actually? You know? That is

29:05

there's a quietness and a smallness about it,

29:08

and Darkwater is

29:11

trenched in that in

29:13

a way that is so that could

29:16

feels like it could have been written by Mr James.

29:20

And of course it's about so much more. It's about a woman

29:22

who's going through a divorce that's a

29:24

really difficult divorce, and it's struggling

29:26

with her child and has gone from being affluent and

29:29

there has no money and is trying to make

29:31

that work, trying to find a place

29:33

to live with her daughter in a shitty apartment

29:35

block where there's a horrible leak. And

29:38

interwoven within that is

29:40

this classic classic

29:43

ghost story that is

29:46

so frightening and moving.

29:49

And I love how

29:51

those two take when they really work, go hand

29:53

in hand. I mean, Mamma, don't

29:55

know if you've seen Mamma, Fuck Me. I

29:58

mean that movie again, It's not

30:00

to everyone's taste because it's a little bit in the

30:02

sort of fantasy world as well, so

30:04

I didn't tend to like but

30:07

the power of a really good ghost

30:09

story, it can be so

30:11

moving. Well, I think it. I

30:14

think I think this is Mark KERMANI said this,

30:16

but maybe someone else but said that all of horror

30:18

films are really about grief. Yeah, and

30:20

about fear of lust. And

30:22

I think, like my I

30:24

think when the great experience of the time em is don't look now

30:27

see, I can't go back to it. I can't watch again

30:30

because of that opening. That's fair. That's

30:32

fair. You know that is It

30:35

hit me so hard before I had

30:37

kids. Yeah, I saw it, and there's

30:39

something you watch that opening of

30:41

that. I mean, it's an extraordinary

30:43

performance from Donald something like that.

30:46

That is so true.

30:49

Everything about that opening is so

30:52

wretched and honest

30:55

and real. Is

30:57

just once should become

30:59

a parent. It's impossible

31:02

to watch that. I can, I can, I

31:04

can imagine. Yeah,

31:07

why I love that film. One of the many reasons I love

31:09

it. This is the best portrait

31:12

of a marriage I've ever seen. I really

31:14

loved them as a couple, and they feel

31:18

so real and that I've

31:20

always thought it's unusual in a film to see a married

31:22

couple who are dealing with

31:24

this thing, but who love each other. It's not it's

31:27

not a fit. I realize how often

31:29

you're seeing married couples arguing, Oh, they're annoying,

31:31

and they're this is a sort of working

31:34

Marriage's dealing with a very difficult thing, and there's

31:37

something very beautiful about it. There is.

31:39

And that's also what's interesting, is you're

31:41

dealing with the mundane and the hum drum

31:43

yea of how you carry on

31:45

with your normal life

31:47

or attempt to after

31:50

something truly awful as hand, It's also

31:52

got an incredible piano Donagio

31:54

school. That movie an

31:56

amazing school. God is

31:59

a fucking oh and

32:01

and the Sexed made you cry, seed

32:04

to make you cry, some

32:06

would say rare, and

32:11

an ending that's iconic and sadly

32:13

ruined many many, many times. But the

32:15

first time you see that, if you don't

32:17

know what's coming, you know, I mean, talk about

32:20

the book ends of that movie. You

32:22

know, one of the strongest

32:24

openings you'll ever see in a movie,

32:27

and one of the strongest clothes things

32:29

you'll ever see, you know,

32:31

I mean incredible. That's the thing.

32:33

You know, as filmmakers

32:36

you pray that you can make something that

32:39

touches people and will last to

32:41

make something. I mean, that's

32:43

what always makes me laugh when people slag off

32:47

anything. Actually, but

32:50

you know they'll talk about this

32:53

is literally off the top of my head, you know, Francis

32:57

or Coppler, and not saying well, oh, this one's not very good

32:59

or that one's regular. You know, you

33:01

should make a film

33:04

that that is

33:06

any that's any good, let

33:09

alone that's lit right, make five

33:13

films that are some of the greatest

33:15

films ever made. You know, you're

33:17

allowed to go off the boil or not. You

33:20

know, it's just amazing to me that

33:22

the ease with which every fucker's

33:25

a critic. How many days

33:27

with Gray Stories shooting, I can't

33:29

quite remember. I think it would give twenty

33:31

five, twenty six amazing something

33:34

like that. Anyway,

33:36

but that's very interesting. The moving

33:38

move I also think I cried in the sixth

33:40

sense the first time. Of course it's an amazing

33:43

film. Yeah, I think it moved. It was scary,

33:45

I'm moving at the same time fascinating. Yeah,

33:47

speaking of which, what if the film it made you cry?

33:50

I've become a terrible baby as I've got

33:53

older, actually since my dad died. Fine,

33:58

thank you. And

34:00

if I know a film is

34:02

going to make me cry, stay away from it now, really

34:04

yeah, really yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't

34:07

like it. I mean you managed managed

34:10

to steal myself to watch Ralph Breaks the Internet.

34:14

That's brave. Well,

34:18

yeah, Pixars, it's

34:21

some of the best storytelling. I mean, you know the beginning

34:23

of up. God help you. Yeah, good

34:25

luck mate, good luck that son.

34:28

But really you avoid it, You've had

34:30

enough. Don't like it being crying, don't

34:32

like it? Yeah, so question

34:35

for you. Yeah, fin on the roof, which frankly

34:38

I had to. I sat on the end of the

34:40

road very deliberately because I fucking

34:43

was a state. I hate crying

34:45

in public and actually a kind of quite

34:47

painful trying to not cry,

34:49

and I didn't succeed. Yes, when

34:52

you're in it, it's very emotive.

34:54

Are you crying yeah, stage yeah,

34:56

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right,

34:59

so yeah, it's a lot of crying. But that's

35:01

sort of weirdly cathartic

35:04

in a way. It's

35:06

very different with It's funny. I've got

35:08

two kids, and my

35:11

son is quite like my wife, quite

35:13

stoic, doesn't really cry and if he does, it's

35:16

you know, my daughter is

35:18

like me, it's Animal Noises, you

35:23

know, it's like a fan not

35:26

too which starts with and

35:32

then it's Escaping

35:34

Girl. Yeah, it's awful.

35:37

Right. So but the two

35:39

films, well, it's a toss

35:41

up really. One of them is Field

35:44

of Dreams Get

35:46

Out, Yeah,

35:49

okay, yeah, of course, which are given.

35:52

I've not watched since my dad died.

35:55

Why would you do that? Um?

36:00

And the other is Cinema Paradiso, and

36:04

I can clearly remember going to see

36:06

Cinema Paradiso and then Curs and

36:08

Mayfair with my mate Johnny

36:10

man Yante, and we both

36:12

went to see it one afternoon and

36:16

literally sat on

36:19

the floor outside the

36:21

Curs and Mayfair in

36:24

inconsolable tears for

36:26

about fifteen minutes. Yeah. He's

36:28

Italian, I'm Jewish,

36:31

obviously. I don't knowin if I've mentioned that eleven thousand

36:34

times, just

36:36

in case and it doesn't know. Um,

36:39

oh god, it was a river of tears, I mean

36:41

honestly, and again I've not really

36:44

revisited it. I hear the

36:46

music and that's enough to be like,

36:49

oh,

36:52

the Animal Noise release that release,

36:57

Yeah, well

37:00

fair, I mean, but brilliant

37:02

storytelling from both of them, but

37:05

just brilliant, so well structured.

37:08

I mean the dreams I'm not sure I watch

37:11

him is an absolute, absolute

37:14

classic in it Yeah, beautiful

37:16

as I only found this that

37:18

reason I was reading about it. Spoiler

37:20

alert. The ending in the book

37:23

isn't a twist in the book. It's

37:25

his dad, like as in, you're just

37:28

told it's his dad right in

37:31

Like spoiler

37:33

alert. I didn't know it was a book. Oh

37:36

yeah, it was a bit of book called Tulister Jackson. Of

37:38

course I won it in I

37:40

didn't tell when the commentation I was like eight or something

37:43

and I got sent the book and

37:45

the video and the soundtrack. One

37:48

of the greatest of my life. Yeah,

37:51

what is a film that most

37:53

people hate critically? People

37:56

just saying it you I

37:58

stand by this film to the I love

38:00

it. What is it? Get ready?

38:03

Okay? Roadhouse?

38:05

Great answer?

38:10

You love sweeping up an eyeball at

38:12

the end of the night they used

38:14

to fun guys like you in prison. I

38:18

love that film. I first

38:20

saw it at the Pictures, loved

38:23

it, loved it. Honestly.

38:27

I know it's Rowdy Herrington who directed

38:29

it. I was like, oh, I don't see I think

38:31

then he ended up doing like die Hard three or something

38:33

like that, some of the sort of schlocky

38:36

sequel that wasn't very good. But for a few years

38:38

I was like, anything rowdy directs, I'll go

38:40

and see. I loved that

38:42

movie. And you know what it was on last

38:44

year at the Prince Charles they did

38:48

Richard did Yeah,

38:51

yeah, presented it for his

38:54

time with one of his books. My son

38:56

hadn't seen it. I'm not sure that my wife had seen it for years.

38:58

We went to see it. It really

39:01

holds up. It really

39:03

holds up. It's a terrific

39:06

movie, right, and it's not

39:08

every movie has to be important and

39:11

it is schlock. I'm

39:13

gonna stick another one up there. It's just popped

39:15

in my head. Lock up. Oh,

39:19

still in prison with Arnold,

39:22

No no, no one talking

39:24

about this is the

39:26

eight is with the Donald Sutherland's

39:29

Warden Drown or whatever

39:31

it is. It's so

39:34

good. I mean it ain't,

39:37

but it is. It's so good.

39:40

I do love a prison movie as well. Yeah, but

39:43

but yeah. Roadhouse Killer

39:46

great practical effects, explosions,

39:48

car chases, crashes, Bengazara

39:51

as the Baddie, brilliant um

39:56

it's it's great, it's

39:58

great, but it is yeah,

40:00

gone, that's going in, that's in heaven. That's now.

40:04

What's the film that you used to love? You loved

40:06

it so much and then you've had a little recently and you've

40:08

gone, oh no, I don't know anymore.

40:10

That's a hard one. Yeah, I do find

40:13

that hard one. And I did wrap my brains about

40:15

this trying to think. And there aren't that

40:19

many. I can think of one

40:22

that I did watch recently that I

40:24

sat down with the family

40:26

to watch that me and my wife had good sort

40:28

of memories of, oh, this is really clever and inventive.

40:32

Is My Little Eye, which is

40:34

the horror film that was like the first

40:36

one about webcams in a house and it was like a

40:38

comment on Big Brother. It was a Welsh

40:41

director I can't remember his name, yes,

40:44

and it's sort of in a house. It's a

40:46

bit Big Brother, right, eight

40:48

of you are in the house, you all managed to stay

40:51

here for and it felt

40:53

so cutting edge, and

40:56

so I was like, let's watch this. It's really

40:59

great and it ain't

41:02

anymore. Okay, she's a shame,

41:05

but I feel mean you see, yeah, no,

41:07

no matter what hands do you give to this. It feels a

41:09

bit mean because it's

41:12

very hard to make a film. It's really hard to make a film,

41:14

and it is a really good film, but I think things have moved

41:16

under what did you say?

41:18

Well, something that's a good choice because that

41:21

is a sort of very a bit like the Net or

41:23

something like that, where like the technology, it's

41:27

yeah, yeah, there is a lovely

41:29

joy in that though when you go back and watch films are

41:31

supposed to be cutting edge, yeah, and you watch

41:33

them and all the sort of tech is

41:36

like whoa,

41:38

yeah, yeah, i'd love to see I

41:40

haven't seen the Net in years. But I always imagine it's

41:43

like, we need to get him any here, boom

41:45

when they're connecting to the we're

41:48

getting in five minutes to give a minute. Yeah,

41:53

what is the film that

41:55

means the most to you? Not necessarily the

41:57

film is any good, but you will

41:59

always remember that film funnily because

42:01

of the experience you had around seeing it. It might

42:04

have been a first date, It might have been the day you got

42:06

a job. Film was on my own

42:08

great film deep read profounder

42:10

rosso Dario

42:12

Gento h

42:15

didn't sit the pictures. It was

42:17

a rental video, nasty

42:21

yeah, VH. Well come on, do I

42:23

look like Betamax VHS.

42:28

We weren't goosh and

42:31

I've rented this film.

42:33

You know, that was a real classic time,

42:35

you know, when you're going and just renting any ship you

42:38

could get your hands off, and

42:41

and at that time, you know, there were loads. What

42:44

was amazing about that period was it gets written

42:46

off as just sort of the dregs.

42:49

The floodgates of shit were opened,

42:52

and this filth came pouring out, and

42:54

the reality is, suddenly

42:57

we were seeing amazing films

42:59

by incredreadable filmmakers,

43:02

you know, Mario Bava, Dario Agento,

43:05

Lucio Fulci, West

43:07

Craven. You know, you were

43:09

seeing amazing visionary

43:11

independent films and some that weren't indied, some

43:13

of the like massive hits in Italy or Spain

43:16

or that just had never reached these shores

43:18

properly. It's not what I was doing when I went

43:20

into the video shop. I was taking

43:22

the one that had the nastiest, worst

43:25

cover, thinking, oh, that looks

43:27

horrible. You know, great, I'll get that. And

43:30

you were inadvertently being educated, you know, seeing

43:32

some of these things that I think that's actually a really good film,

43:36

and Deep Red was

43:40

a life changer. It was,

43:42

honest to god. You know. I

43:44

picked it up because on the front of it was a

43:46

sticker that said contains extreme bloody

43:48

violence, and there was this photo of David

43:51

Hemmings holding this torch peering

43:53

through a broken window thing. So

43:57

I rented this and it

44:00

felt like someone

44:04

felt like being punished in the face. The

44:07

film is so amazing. I

44:09

mean, it's weird, of

44:11

course, and the acting is slightly odd, and it

44:13

depends what version you see. It's dub That's

44:16

one of those the things why better off watching it dubbed

44:18

because yeah, than well,

44:20

because of the way those Italian films were made, which it

44:23

was all dubbed. Yeah, yeah, so you know,

44:25

there's great. Yeah,

44:27

it's a fantastic documentary called euro

44:29

Crime, where it's all about the

44:33

Italian film industry and the sort of crime throughs

44:35

of the sixties, seventies and eighties,

44:37

early eighties, and then talking about

44:39

you know, you'd be doing a scene and in the background that

44:42

there's you know, guys sort

44:44

of shouting

44:48

and chatting and and everything just gets

44:50

dubbed afterwards, so sort of weirdly, the dubbing doesn't

44:52

matter, but the

44:55

plot is unbelievably

44:57

amazing. Dario Argento.

45:00

Those first few films are extraordinary.

45:04

He wrote Once upon a Time in the West with

45:06

Berta Lucci educational

45:09

as well as Thank You, Charming, Yeah,

45:14

and with a fucking

45:18

unbelievable finale,

45:21

and the most amazing, aside

45:23

from visually what he did with the with the camera,

45:25

which is just jaw dropping. His design is

45:28

amazing and his use of a camera is extraordinary,

45:31

but the soundtrack is incredible

45:33

as well. It's by this group called Goblin, who are

45:35

this prog rock group,

45:37

and in fact we use the theme of it in

45:39

the play of Ghost Stories. That's

45:42

how we opened the Yeah,

45:44

that's the theme from deep Read. I

45:47

went to see Goblin

45:50

do live yeah

45:52

in Edinburgh, which was also the first time

45:56

the whole thing was whoa. Yeah. It's

45:58

a lot, a lot, a

46:01

lot and also amazing to discover

46:03

that the band make

46:06

the I agree

46:08

because I went to see them live at the

46:10

Union Chapel. Recently did Suspiria

46:13

and it's

46:17

him, it's him on a mic. It's

46:21

amazing. Yeah. So

46:24

you know, and again we slightly take

46:26

for granted now that Goblin

46:28

sound is something that's either pastiche or used

46:31

or never heard anything like it in your life

46:34

when when those films came out, maybe he said

46:36

the same thing when you're there. But when he introduced it, the lead

46:38

guy, he said, um, Dario

46:41

Agenda came to us. We were very young band, and he said,

46:43

I went to write the soundtrack for a movie. And

46:45

he said we were we would so young and we

46:47

were very lucky. But he was lucky too.

46:50

I love that, Yeah, I love it. Yeah,

46:53

yeah, So Deep Reddy is the film so

46:55

literally I saw that and that was you.

46:57

I mean, yeah, completely

47:00

Lee. It's sort of set the

47:02

bar weirdly at an unachievable

47:04

height, you know, of how

47:06

inventive you can be, and

47:09

how it sort of didn't

47:11

matter if no one got what you were going for.

47:15

But what's amazing is his films not

47:18

anymore sadly, but were giant

47:21

box office hits in

47:23

Italy and I mean

47:25

Suspiria globally. Yeah,

47:28

and it's fucking weird. It's

47:30

a nightmare. I don't mean it's a nightmare.

47:32

I don't watch it. I mean it's like you're watching a nightmare.

47:35

It's absolutely remarkable, but it's

47:37

done. But it's what everyone it's what we all should

47:39

aspire to as an artist, which

47:42

is and I don't mean that in a pond, see, but when you're

47:44

working the arts, you're sacrifice enough to try

47:46

and make a living doing this fucking madness. Whether

47:48

you're a writer and an actress, singer, you

47:51

know, whatever your branch happens to be.

47:53

And when you see somebody

47:56

who is out there on a limb with

47:58

that seemingly fuck

48:00

you all, this is what I'm making. Yeah, it's

48:03

so exciting to

48:05

see that authentically, you know

48:08

that it really had an

48:10

indelible imprint on me. And again that's

48:12

not to say so ergo look at what I've

48:14

achieved, but but but it drips,

48:17

you know. I think that it's important

48:19

to kind of earmark those things and then

48:21

try and look at White made such an impact. Aside

48:23

from the most importantly, the story

48:26

is fucking amazing and

48:28

the reveal of it, the hootspur

48:30

of it is unbelievable.

48:34

Yeah, God, I can't recommend it enough. Do

48:36

you say, do you know did

48:38

you do that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

48:41

great boy, Yeah exactly.

48:50

Yeah. They're the killers, the ones

48:52

that you know, Mama

48:55

dark water. When you see one of

48:57

those and you're not expecting

48:59

it, and it's like, oh

49:01

God, oh no, you know that.

49:04

What's the film that you must relate

49:07

to its American psycho kidding

49:11

well, I don't really. I think when I was

49:13

young, a film that I always

49:16

loved and sort of maybe related

49:18

to was Goodbye Girl Neil Simon,

49:21

yes, Richard Dreyfus, which won the Oscar

49:23

for youngest actor to

49:25

ever win an Oscar at that point. But

49:28

it's about an actor in New York having

49:30

to kind of live in a mate's

49:32

apartment and based

49:35

on a brilliant Neil Simon play,

49:37

and I just loved I love

49:40

New York. I loved

49:42

seeing that sort of late nineteen

49:45

seventies New York and

49:47

seeing what an actor's life there would

49:50

be like Drapust.

49:52

Of course, I've already said because of Jaws. It felt

49:54

a bit like it's sort

49:56

of I could sort of be that, you

49:59

know, and

50:01

it's just warm and funny and

50:04

you know, Neil Simon, what else you need to know? It's

50:06

one of the most perfectly

50:08

written comedies, brilliant. Marsha

50:11

Mason, who was Neil Simon's wife at the time, is

50:13

that the female lead, and she's

50:15

just sparkling and funny,

50:17

and wise, cracky and

50:20

brilliant and really honest,

50:22

and it's just great.

50:24

So that was maybe the film

50:27

that great song by Bread

50:30

Oh yeah, yeah, and you another

50:32

goodbye doesn't mean

50:35

forever, you know,

50:37

it's just a brilliant, brilliant

50:39

movie. Have you ever met miss No,

50:43

I'd like to. I'd like just

50:45

to say thank you. Yeah, I'd really

50:47

like to. You know, there's a whole

50:49

period of time he doesn't remember because

50:52

he was drinking so much. I do. Yeah,

50:54

film in Beverly

50:56

Hills and whose life is it anyway? Which he did?

50:59

Ye, he has zero memory, doesn't

51:01

remember that.

51:03

Wow. Now Dana like Beverly Hills was the one

51:05

that he came back after that period. So

51:08

I didn't know. I didn't

51:10

know I did it. And

51:14

he's very good, you know. Yeah. Wow, it's

51:16

a real advert to drink that. So

51:19

what is the greatest

51:21

film? Objectively? It might

51:23

not be your favorite, but you go, that's the pinnacle

51:26

of all cinema. That for me. Yeah,

51:29

Ghost Stories, no, for me,

51:33

you can have it. I

51:35

think Once upon a Time in the West, good

51:38

answer. It's just extraordinary.

51:42

Yeah, And there's

51:44

just so much to it that I adore.

51:47

From incredible performances,

51:50

incredible set pieces. First

51:53

time I ever saw it was as the Monday Film.

51:56

I don't know if you even remember that it was. It was

51:58

BBC one on a

52:00

Monday night, nine o'clock,

52:02

you'd have the News nine twenty

52:04

five. It was the Monday Film. That's

52:07

what it was called. That's not you know,

52:09

and each week would be in Tonight's Monday

52:11

Film. Is it was called they Yeah, it

52:13

wasn't, just like that's what we called it in the family. It

52:15

was called The Monday And I

52:18

saw many many,

52:20

you know, as a kid growing up, many

52:22

films like that, and I

52:26

was really thrown

52:29

by it by the violence

52:31

of it. Firstly, that sort of searchially owned

52:33

violence that felt so brutal

52:36

and it's really callous the

52:38

opening of the film,

52:39

and it

52:41

really upset me. But then the

52:44

scale of the movie is

52:47

giant and where the

52:49

story goes, and incredible

52:53

soundtrack, incredible Morricone

52:56

soundtrack. But also what I now

52:58

realized one of the things that I had adored

53:00

most in it is this Dario Argento

53:03

subplot, which is all

53:05

the amazing stuff where you've

53:07

got these kind of weird

53:10

blurred flashbacks and

53:12

each time you get a little bit more and

53:14

a little bit more and a little bit more revealing

53:17

what's happening, which is pure shallow,

53:19

which is the Italian murder mystery. I

53:22

never anything, And that's

53:25

one of the things that to me, it

53:27

seemed to be elevated above just being this

53:30

grand Western and

53:33

there's just so many layers to it, and

53:35

I just again, I just love just

53:38

the boldness of it, of

53:40

how big the ideas are

53:42

and how again things

53:44

that we just end up that get pastiged

53:47

all the time or laughed at. Now, you know, like

53:49

those tight close ups on eyes, you

53:52

know, and and that stuff

53:54

that you forget. These are these people

53:56

fucking invented that stuff, and

53:59

someone had to the courage to go, you're

54:01

not it'd be amazing here just eyes,

54:05

just ie close ups, ie close

54:07

ups in CinemaScope.

54:09

It's not just like let's just do a bit. I

54:11

mean, you know, eighty foot

54:13

wide close up of Charles

54:16

Johnson's eyes, you know, and

54:19

just holy shit, it's

54:22

amazing. It's

54:25

amazing the use of silence and it is

54:27

amazing. Yeah. So

54:30

that for me, and that also,

54:32

you know, I saw that I

54:35

used to go. It was on at the Scarlet

54:37

Cinema quite a lot when I was when

54:39

I first moved to London, and

54:42

I saw a lot of I had a bit of a film

54:44

education from that place. You know. I was at Drama

54:47

school and where were you Drama

54:49

Guildhall, which is in the Barbicane. So

54:51

I'd finish at the Barbicane and hot foot it over to

54:54

King's Cross to the Scarlet. It

54:56

was this extraordinary arts

55:00

cinema that just had the

55:02

most incredible programming, you know. I saw loads

55:04

of Dario our Gentle and then Once

55:06

upon a Time in the West was on there and I thought, oh god,

55:08

I saw that on Telly. I'll see that, we're seeing it on the

55:10

big screen. Holy shit. I

55:12

mean it was just blew me away. Yeah,

55:17

I think that's good answer. Now one's given it.

55:19

I don't believe. Thank God, thank

55:21

God, thank god it and get to heaven with me. What

55:25

is We don't have

55:27

to be negative. Let's do it quickly. What's the

55:29

worst film you've ever seen? No

55:33

neider of us likely neither

55:35

of us want this question. But here it is.

55:38

We're not in charge the

55:41

people in heaven. I can't argue with it. I'm just to

55:43

can do it. Okay, Now I

55:45

don't know that I can answer that because

55:47

I can't. I'm sure as

55:50

soon as you've left, I'm like, oh,

55:52

you know, I should have said, yeah, was

55:56

I can't think of them using pithy answer

55:58

to that as an over ride statement.

56:00

I get bored to death of fucking bland

56:03

product. Yeah, the modern

56:05

disease of bland product. And I sort

56:07

of including that. Superhero

56:10

films, I'm so over

56:12

it all. I can't be fucked if

56:15

I miss one. You know, I saw the first

56:17

X Men. Yeah, I thought that was great.

56:20

Oh God, only in the Holocaust,

56:23

that's an amazing, amazing

56:25

idea. And now you've got this, the first mc

56:27

wolvery. Now it's like, you know,

56:29

I feel like, I mean, the car sounds so old,

56:32

don't I it's pathetic, But I feel like,

56:34

oh no, if you're not up on the board, so you've missed one

56:37

of them. And I'm so bored

56:39

of it. I'm so bored of CGI, I'm

56:41

so bored of everything being if

56:44

everything's achievable, who cares?

56:47

You know? The CG and everything I did

56:50

just leave me cold, cold, cold.

56:53

So there's an umbrella answer there. I'm

56:56

not going to answer this question, but all of cinema

56:58

currently. Well, I will say is this

57:01

I One of the other things in that pastory

57:04

is me benil have a compliment practical

57:07

effects. Oh yeah, I fucking hate CDA

57:09

and you did not cheats, Thank

57:12

you, thank

57:14

you. Here's what's interesting, though, we

57:17

did use CG no no hold

57:19

on in the way that we think CG

57:21

should be used, which is for removals and little

57:24

enhancements and things. So if you're doing

57:26

something and you need to just kind of all, let's get rid

57:28

of that bit of thread, or let's get rid of this, or let's

57:30

get rid of that, that's where it's incredibly enabling.

57:33

Or you know, if you've shot something anything, Holy shit,

57:36

does that guy walking across we didn't see

57:38

him. You can get rid of it. Yeah. But

57:41

one of the things that I find really interesting

57:44

about it is I sort

57:46

of and again I'm so

57:48

aware, I feel like so like a dinosaur.

57:51

But I think it

57:53

stops you thinking as a creator.

57:57

Yeah. That's not to say achieving CG is

57:59

easy, because God knows, thirty

58:01

five thousand people have got to be sitting at computers

58:04

doing that thing. That is incredibly hard.

58:07

I mean, there was a brilliant quote. I think it was

58:09

from John Lassiter. I didn't

58:11

see it, unfortunate, but there's a Pixar exhibition

58:13

and my wife and that some went

58:15

to see it. There was a photo they took at the

58:17

beginning that was

58:19

above it saying saying we make our

58:21

films with computer it's all computer generated.

58:24

Is like saying snow white pencil

58:27

generated, which

58:29

is true. Of course there's artists they're

58:32

doing it. But I believe

58:34

within the DNA of what that thing is, which

58:36

is anything is achievable, which just takes longer

58:38

to make it look real on this thing. It

58:41

stops you creating

58:44

in ways that are often more inventive,

58:47

simpler, more exciting,

58:49

and there's an audience more

58:51

satisfying because you

58:53

think about that mote, or you won't because you're

58:55

too young. But you know when

58:57

you went to see The Spy Loved Me as a kid, right,

59:01

And there's the fallout of the plane

59:03

at the beginning that ends with I think it's

59:05

the Spite Loved Me with the union Jack jumps

59:08

the cliff whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

59:10

I'm thinking of it now and thinking of da

59:13

Dad. When

59:19

there's the parachute yea silence

59:26

in the cinema when you feel

59:28

this holy shit and

59:32

think about the brilliance. Now

59:34

here's a brilliant use of trick

59:36

photography. The end of die Hard.

59:39

Yes, with that, and now I'm not going to say

59:41

what the end is in case despite some lucky

59:44

person hasn't seen die Hard, which is

59:46

another one that should be on my list. It is a work

59:48

of genius. But there is

59:50

a moment at the end where

59:52

somebody falls. My

59:55

god, that moment.

59:57

The way it's shot is jaw

1:00:00

dropping. Yeah, and it's

1:00:03

it's not CG. It's a little bit of green screen,

1:00:05

but it's brilliant the

1:00:07

inventiveness of it because you

1:00:09

know, as an audience, you're connecting

1:00:13

to something real and

1:00:17

you get the difference in your DNA, so

1:00:20

that when I've sat and watched recently

1:00:23

a couple of the gigantic

1:00:25

blockbusters, there's

1:00:28

just no connection to it whatsoever. I

1:00:31

agree, I profoundly agree.

1:00:34

I think you. I still

1:00:36

I always want to write a letter to Hollywood. Go and dear

1:00:38

Hollywood, I don't think your CGI is as good

1:00:40

as you think it is. Yeah, like when even

1:00:43

like King Kong, all this stuff you go, they're

1:00:45

not there. I know that you don't

1:00:48

Namie. What is not there with King Kong.

1:00:50

She is miming and touching a green

1:00:53

thing, the connection between

1:00:55

her and Kinkong. No matter how much work you didn't, I know you didn't

1:00:57

love a lot of work, and good luck to you. Yeah,

1:01:00

but you're things

1:01:02

touching. But here's the interesting thing

1:01:04

though, because if you take that analogy and

1:01:06

look at the original King Kong, which

1:01:08

reduces you to loves tears,

1:01:13

well, it is, but there's something human

1:01:15

about it. There's something human

1:01:17

about the work

1:01:20

that's gone on to create it, and there's

1:01:22

something human about the decisions of this

1:01:24

is the moment where we have Fae

1:01:27

with the giant hand and then

1:01:29

we go back to the articulated

1:01:32

animated version. There's there's a

1:01:34

sort of now we look at it and

1:01:36

it's crude. At the time

1:01:38

it was groundbreaking, but you look

1:01:41

at this thing and you're aware

1:01:43

in the way that you are with argument,

1:01:46

there is a humanness to that fingerprints.

1:01:50

Yeah. Interestingly, when they did Flushed Away,

1:01:52

it lacked that where they try

1:01:54

to recreate that feel with I think it was with

1:01:56

Disney and the you know, so you'll

1:01:59

try to sinphasize the humanity

1:02:01

of it and you can't and

1:02:03

we respond to effort. Yeah,

1:02:06

I love

1:02:11

that. I love that. What is

1:02:15

I mean? This is going tremendously by the way, just a

1:02:17

little? Is it? Not

1:02:19

at all? I mean fantastic? What

1:02:22

is the sexiest

1:02:25

film of all time? That I can't

1:02:27

even answer because I just know at

1:02:29

some point my wife and kids may listen to

1:02:31

this, just the just the acknowledge

1:02:33

that I have any sort of sexual inclinations,

1:02:36

just saying that now they'll be like, why did you say sexual

1:02:39

like that where you said it's embarrassing?

1:02:42

Yeah, I'm not babies there? Twenty four

1:02:44

and twenty what um

1:02:47

sichim? I mean? I remember

1:02:49

the first time seeing

1:02:51

a film that was a bit again, it was a

1:02:53

Monday film. It was a bit sexy.

1:02:56

Today's Monday film is a bit sexy. Yeah,

1:02:59

was because the way I used to watch films at home in

1:03:01

my front room was I was in. It was

1:03:03

a sort of long front room. I'd

1:03:06

sit on the seat nearest the telly,

1:03:09

mom and dad, maybe my sister if they were still

1:03:11

love but generally not. We're sort of on

1:03:13

the sofa behind. I

1:03:16

remember Thunderbolt and Lightfoot

1:03:19

coming on? Is that Michael Chimmy now I think it is?

1:03:21

Yeah, and it's and

1:03:25

Jeff Bridge is exactly right. Very good film,

1:03:27

very good shoulder dislocation. I seem to remember,

1:03:31

but I also remember lovely film

1:03:36

weird. If that was the end of the story, I

1:03:39

can see why I

1:03:42

seemed to remember. There's a bit where Clint

1:03:45

Eastward has been saying to Jeff

1:03:48

Bridges about they're doing our

1:03:50

jobs, like mowing lawns or something, and

1:03:53

he's talking about the woman in that house

1:03:55

is a bit sexy. And

1:03:58

then he's mowing the launa. One bit looks

1:04:00

round and she's taken a shot off and it's standing

1:04:03

at the window. See you've got a full

1:04:05

breast, will reveal I

1:04:08

to this day can remember the blush

1:04:11

and the hot sweat of knowing my

1:04:13

mom, my, mom,

1:04:17

we're behind me. Yeah, And

1:04:20

I was at the front of the room. That

1:04:22

was the I think the first time I was aware of sort

1:04:24

of sexiness in films. You

1:04:27

sat like the Royal family did,

1:04:30

where you sat in the thing as in the sitcunder.

1:04:33

Yes, yeah, I

1:04:35

don't know how queen I'd

1:04:37

like to see that. Yeah, you sat

1:04:40

in that configuration, yeah, Sidney,

1:04:42

Yeah. Did it all go completely

1:04:45

silent when the breastel displayed it happen,

1:04:47

Yes, and did someone go

1:04:50

tea? I don't remember.

1:04:52

I just remember literally burning,

1:04:57

burning with embarrassment at

1:05:00

that. Yeah, I'm assuming you're

1:05:02

not going to answer the subcategory question, which

1:05:04

is which is traveling

1:05:07

bonus worrying? What I don't which

1:05:10

I refused to answer that you were taking the fourth.

1:05:14

What I like is you've sort of inherited a bit

1:05:16

of my embarrassment. You're asking that

1:05:18

question. You suddenly feel like me watching Tell

1:05:22

anyway. I can't my dad, what my bloody elly

1:05:24

asking that force because

1:05:26

I did this with Mark Kermaid and

1:05:28

he it was being told off by my dad

1:05:31

when I asked him that question. He said, there's absolutely

1:05:33

no way I'm answering that. And I felt as I

1:05:35

felt like he was going, you're a fucking child.

1:05:40

It was like the Godfather saying you're a fucking child.

1:05:42

Yeah, no question. I just yeah,

1:05:45

I'm just not going to answer. That's fair enough in front

1:05:47

of my children. What films? I

1:05:49

had a troubling erection in did

1:05:51

you hear that kid? Bloody

1:05:54

out? Yeah?

1:05:57

Right? So what is

1:06:00

the film you can or have? What's

1:06:03

the most over and over again? I think it's probably

1:06:05

Halloween? A what

1:06:07

a film Yeah. Good

1:06:09

film. Truly Yeah,

1:06:12

up until a few years ago, the most successful

1:06:14

independent milm Yeah

1:06:17

film movie history, Wow,

1:06:20

most profitable, unbelievable. There

1:06:22

was a period in my late teens

1:06:25

where I must have watched

1:06:27

that film forty

1:06:29

times. I was sort

1:06:32

of obsessed with it because

1:06:34

I'd seen the Fog at the sort of I did

1:06:36

not watch horror at all. I was terrified

1:06:38

of it. And then my sister Karen,

1:06:42

we went to see the Fog at

1:06:44

the pictures and she said, it will be fine. It's a double A.

1:06:46

It won't be scary. Double

1:06:48

A for those are not of a certain

1:06:50

age. That was fourteen. You have to be fourteen to see

1:06:52

it. Supposed to X that was

1:06:54

eighteen. So they were the scary films.

1:06:57

Should the FOG's fine, it won't be scary, And of course

1:06:59

it was absolutely

1:07:02

proper old fashioned ghost story scary.

1:07:06

But then I got hooked. That was it. I was

1:07:08

like, Oh my god, who is this man John

1:07:11

Carpin? To what else has he made? Halloween?

1:07:14

And it just so happened it was about to come

1:07:16

on Telly, so I taped it and then

1:07:18

I just watched it and watched it and

1:07:20

watched it and watched it and watched it and

1:07:23

couldn't believe it, couldn't believe he's used some music, couldn't

1:07:25

believe the way the film was made, couldn't

1:07:27

believe every just

1:07:29

the brilliance of it, just the

1:07:32

sheer brilliance of that film. It's also

1:07:34

simple in that film, in it, the tune is simple, story

1:07:37

is simple. Everything's so simple, and it's fucking

1:07:39

scary and timeless and classic. And

1:07:41

that's the thing when you're watching it that's so amazing.

1:07:44

Just felt like this film will never age,

1:07:46

and it hasn't. I mean that the sort

1:07:48

of reboot they did last year I thought was pretty good

1:07:50

and pretty well made and stuff, but it's

1:07:54

just nothing like that original. Yea lovely,

1:07:58

Now you're funny? What's the funniest

1:08:01

film you've ever seen? Sometimes

1:08:04

I say this question differently because

1:08:06

actually I think what I mean is what's the film that made

1:08:08

you laugh the most? Definitely,

1:08:11

isn't it? Yeah? Okay,

1:08:13

so I've got one proper answer from one sort of sub

1:08:15

answer. The sub answer is slightly embarrassingly

1:08:18

is a film that I mean, that's fine,

1:08:20

that's a good answer, And and

1:08:23

I happen to sit for quite a few times. It's sort

1:08:25

of um public

1:08:27

events and screenings. Something. It's a film called Death at a Funeral,

1:08:30

okay, and it's

1:08:32

Did Franks directed director. He's

1:08:35

a hero. He's incredible.

1:08:38

I love it. He's incredible,

1:08:41

a mensch. And just you

1:08:44

got directed by miss Piggy. You're very

1:08:46

whye you wouldn't like that. It's very

1:08:48

deprivate about that. No, no performances,

1:08:53

separate performances. Brilliantly. I love him for that. Yeah,

1:08:56

he's amazing, you know, and you look

1:08:58

at his canon of work anyway. For

1:09:01

seeing that film with an audience is

1:09:04

extraordinary. It is this written by guy

1:09:06

called Dean Craig. It is a proper

1:09:09

old fashioned fast it's sort of

1:09:11

underseen here really it's again, it's sort

1:09:13

of It was huge all over the world apart

1:09:15

from here. Really bizarrely, it's

1:09:18

so funny and such

1:09:21

a brilliant piece of filmmaking. And

1:09:23

the only other time there are two other times I

1:09:25

can remember laughing, like the

1:09:27

We're laughed in that film, which

1:09:30

is so weird when it's something you're in. The

1:09:32

only two other times I can remember screaming

1:09:36

with laughter in films well, the first

1:09:38

time I saw bore An at the scene

1:09:41

just the sheer daring

1:09:45

of the man I

1:09:48

could not believe. So

1:09:50

I was just breathless

1:09:54

at that and then the only other time.

1:09:56

And I haven't seen this film for years

1:09:58

and years, and I have no idea how it's aged,

1:10:01

but my memory of going to see a Fish called

1:10:03

Wander at the cinema and it's

1:10:06

one of those few moments,

1:10:09

like with ball Rat and like actually with death at a funeral,

1:10:12

where the screaming

1:10:15

laughter in unison and no one

1:10:18

would be on but they weren't on the phones then, but

1:10:20

you know, everyone totally in

1:10:22

it. Everything that's set up pays

1:10:25

off, and just the joy

1:10:28

of it reminding you of what a brilliant

1:10:30

thing cinema is, when what

1:10:32

a you brilliant unifying experience.

1:10:37

I think the in between US movies

1:10:39

do a brilliant job as well. I really

1:10:41

do you know. I think they're they

1:10:44

properly deliver, and not

1:10:46

just deliver for its audience. They're just genuinely

1:10:49

warm and funny and brilliant.

1:10:52

I'm slightly nervous to revisit Vish called

1:10:54

Wander because I don't know how good it. Yeah,

1:10:56

I can understand would be now, but

1:11:00

certainly at the time, just

1:11:02

wonderful Yeah, Bora's got

1:11:05

that real guttural like a

1:11:07

bit like I remember someone talking about the Jackass

1:11:09

films and I don't know the Jackass

1:11:11

stuff that upsets me, but I

1:11:14

understand their point was, like, the

1:11:16

effect that they have on you as like a human

1:11:19

is so primal that whatever

1:11:21

you think of Jackass, it will make you winter, it will

1:11:23

make you you will have an emotional

1:11:26

response to it, Yeah, regardless of how

1:11:28

intellects you try and be about it. And there is

1:11:30

an element with Borat it's almost like a very

1:11:32

high browed version of that totally

1:11:35

where you're just going fucking hell and

1:11:37

it's making you, well, he's fucking fearless.

1:11:40

Yes, no matter what one thinks of him

1:11:43

as a as an actor or performer

1:11:45

or creator or provocateur, you

1:11:49

can't help admiring

1:11:52

and saying balls on him

1:11:54

and literally, you know, he's

1:11:56

just that's extraordinary.

1:12:00

Yeah, he's amazing. He

1:12:02

is truly, truly amazing, silent.

1:12:05

I just loved that when I saw it. You can

1:12:07

have it now, Andy Nyman, You've

1:12:10

been genuinely wonderful. I've loved

1:12:13

Thank you. Thank you for your time and your

1:12:15

patience coming here when

1:12:18

you died between

1:12:20

the hours of three and five. You did your

1:12:22

three o'clock we h you went

1:12:25

back to bed with your wife. You've

1:12:27

got an electric blanket at that point, you

1:12:29

had an electric bank going fell asleep,

1:12:32

died wife. Sounds like I had a

1:12:34

little way in bed and that caused the death.

1:12:37

Yeah, and that is what happened. Yeah, your

1:12:40

wife got up and you were add a little

1:12:42

weight at five o'clock because you're

1:12:45

execute, you elexecute, and

1:12:49

when we found your body, you would actually

1:12:51

like what's the word. You

1:12:54

basically molded into the bed through

1:12:56

the burn and we couldn't get

1:12:59

it, so we actually had to hut up the bed getting

1:13:01

to pieces with you on it. Everything was stuck

1:13:03

to you're stuck to the blanket, stuck to the mattress. It was

1:13:05

a fucking mess. I'm so sorry. We

1:13:08

stuff all of you in the coffin. But there's

1:13:10

bits of the bed, there's bits of the blanket. It's it's

1:13:14

coffin is starting to be upset, absolutely

1:13:17

from being amusing. Yeah, there's the only

1:13:19

room in this coffin because of all this stuff. For

1:13:22

one DVD, DVD

1:13:24

within the slide in the side, you take it to the other side

1:13:26

and on the other side. It's movie night every night, and one

1:13:29

night it's your movie night. What film are you're taking to

1:13:31

show everyone? There's a knock at the door. I

1:13:33

am taking with me ghost

1:13:35

Stories. Excellent, that

1:13:38

would be. It's got bits of my family

1:13:41

in it. I'm very proud of it. It's

1:13:43

got me and Jeremy Dyson together

1:13:45

in it. And that might be horribly fucking arrogant

1:13:48

that that's the one that goes with me. But

1:13:50

I love films so much and the fact we actually made

1:13:53

a film gives me such joy. And

1:13:55

n is there anything you would like to plug or say

1:13:57

before we say goodbye? No, loved

1:14:01

every second of this, so a thank

1:14:03

you very much. I hope you have a wonderful show

1:14:05

tonight. Thank you, And for those of you listening,

1:14:07

if you haven't already got tickets, go and see it. It's

1:14:09

fucking beautiful. Yes, ghost

1:14:13

Stories is only see Ghosties

1:14:15

life. Yeah. I also see that Fiddler on

1:14:17

the Roof and see the film Fiddler on the Roof at

1:14:20

the Playhouse Theater. God

1:14:22

bless you have a wonderful time on the other side, and

1:14:25

good days you sir. Thank you. That

1:14:30

was episode forty two there. Head over

1:14:32

to Patreon dot Com forward slash Brett Goldstein

1:14:35

to access the extra material with Andy Nyman.

1:14:37

And if you do enjoy this show, please would

1:14:40

you subscribe and give it five stars

1:14:42

and a nice review For the simple reason apparently

1:14:44

it helps the numbers. Means more people get to hear

1:14:46

it and keep making it. You can keep listening to it. We can keep doing this

1:14:48

forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever until

1:14:51

the world explodes. Thank you so

1:14:53

much to Andy for inviting me over to do

1:14:55

this. Thank you to Scrubious Pip and the Distraction

1:14:58

Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Piece for producing it,

1:15:00

to Acas for hosting it, to Adam Richardson for the

1:15:02

graphics at least Alidam for the photography. Come

1:15:04

and join me next week when my guest

1:15:07

is one of my favorite comedians out in

1:15:09

the States. It is the incredible

1:15:12

Punky Johnson. Have a lovely

1:15:14

week and please be excellent

1:15:17

to each other.