0:00

This whole thing really was about confidence for

0:03

me. In young women, how do we get

0:05

them confident at what not? I will represent

0:07

poker table like a money table. Any table

0:09

you're sitting at where you're

0:12

doing business. They sat up straighter. They

0:14

wanted to win. They were competing,

0:18

all in good faith, but they weren't just

0:20

giving away their chips because someone else lost their chips,

0:22

right? It was a whole

0:25

new body language. I

0:27

start to learn, and I'm like, wait

0:29

a second. This looks like that meeting

0:31

I was just in. Hi,

0:36

financial feminists. So excited. You're back. Welcome to the

0:38

show. If you are new here, welcome. My name

0:40

is Tori. I am a money expert. I am

0:42

a multimillionaire. I fight the patriarchy by making you

0:44

rich. I also have a New York Times bestselling

0:46

book called Financial Feminist. And if you're listening on

0:48

Spotify, the audio book's right there for you. If

0:51

you're a premium user, it's right there. It's free.

0:53

It's great. And if you're an oldie but a

0:55

goodie, you knew that. Welcome back. Welcome back to the show. Couple

0:57

housekeeping things. You can review the show. If you

0:59

like it, you can share it with a friend

1:01

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1:34

incredible guests. So we appreciate the sport. OK, today's

1:36

episode. Jenny Just is the

1:39

little known billionaire powering FinTech firms. She has

1:41

won a 23 self-made female billionaires in the

1:43

United States. And she cut her teeth on

1:45

the male dominated trading for at O'Connor in

1:48

Chicago. In 1996, Jenny

1:50

started peak six with $1.5 million in

1:53

seed capital and created a phenomenally

1:55

successful alternative to traditional investing firms.

1:58

Jenny's true passion lies in financial. opportunities for women

2:00

to succeed at any table, from the classroom to

2:02

the boardroom to the poker room. And that's how

2:05

in 2019, this passion led her to start Poker

2:07

Power, which is a woman-led company with a mission

2:09

to teach one million women how to play poker

2:12

because she believes the skills required

2:14

to play poker are also fundamental

2:16

to career and life success, strategic

2:18

thinking, risk-taking, and decision-making. She

2:20

founded the Women's Trading Experience and Women's Technology

2:22

Experience programs in order to create a path

2:24

for more women in Fintech because only 14%

2:26

of the 25,000 money managers

2:30

worldwide are female. She also

2:32

created Fintech in Action, which is

2:34

a coalition of action-oriented corporations to

2:36

accelerate progress in Fintech and finance

2:38

for black students and professionals. In

2:40

today's episode, we talk about her

2:42

background working in the very male-dominated

2:44

Chicago Stock Market, what brought her

2:46

to Poker Power, why there's so

2:48

much gender difference when it comes

2:50

to risk-taking and perfectionism, whether that's in

2:52

the poker table in the workplace, how we

2:55

manage our money, and the power

2:57

of building your resilience, and especially when that

2:59

comes to taking risks. So, we're really

3:01

excited for this episode. Without further ado, let's go ahead

3:03

and get into it. But

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first, a word from our sponsors. We

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5:01

event like three days ago in Manhattan. So yeah,

5:03

it was so fun. And it's my second one

5:05

is so great. So fun. I

5:07

know. Well, that's the thing. It's like,

5:10

worst case, you have a lot of fun, right? I know.

5:13

Worst case. Yeah, no, it was it

5:15

was great. And yeah, she owns a

5:17

bourbon brand. That's her side hustle. She's

5:19

a lit Asian by day bourbon connoisseur

5:21

by night. And so yeah, it was

5:23

a very, very fun event. That's awesome.

5:25

Yeah, first time I did it with

5:27

the female founders retreat in November. So

5:30

yeah, got to see Erin both times. I know so

5:32

fun. Yeah, she loves you by the way. She's fantastic.

5:34

Yeah, we were just talking before. I don't know if

5:36

you heard but she was on my flight that got

5:38

delayed seven hours. And she was right in front of me

5:40

and I walked on I was like, is that her and then

5:42

she got upgraded to first class and I was like, Oh, it's

5:44

her. They come up and you

5:46

say your name and everything. I was like,

5:48

ah, she got that upgrade. So I'm messaging

5:50

her on Instagram and I go turn around

5:52

and she just looks around and I'm like

5:54

waving like that. That's awesome. Oh

5:57

my gosh. Yeah, it was very fun. We're

5:59

just thrilled. to have you on the show. Thank you

6:01

for being here. We love

6:03

bringing people on who have financial

6:05

backgrounds and asking them what their first money

6:08

memory was. What is the first time that

6:10

you remember becoming aware of money? Yeah,

6:13

well, first of all, thanks so much for having me.

6:15

I'm delighted to be here. And my first

6:18

money memory, which is

6:20

a little bit odd, and like you won't you're too

6:22

young, you may not remember, but when you used

6:25

to get paper out of a printer, it was

6:27

all connected. Yes, like an

6:29

accordion, like it didn't come out piece

6:31

by piece. And my

6:34

dad came home from work. He was

6:36

a doctor. And there was

6:38

always some lesson that came, you know, in

6:40

the evening. And I grew up with four

6:43

brothers. And this one, I remember he

6:45

handed me the stack of printout and he said,

6:47

Come over here. And I go to the dinner

6:49

table, I stood by him. And I

6:51

stood there and I must have been

6:53

in middle school. And so

6:56

I don't know how tall I was then maybe I

6:58

you know, I'm gonna you know, if I'm

7:00

five eight now, maybe I was five whatever and change.

7:03

And he said, hold it up. And I'll

7:05

drop it. So it all connected. And it was

7:07

the whole length of me. And it was all

7:09

single spaced names of

7:13

patients who hadn't paid. And

7:15

I was like, what? Right?

7:18

Like, like the concept didn't like

7:20

I never heard of the concept, right?

7:22

You go into store, you pay for something, right? But there's

7:25

obviously, or a young middle school student, especially,

7:27

you know, without internet and all those things,

7:30

like how much do you understand about healthcare

7:32

and why and how things happen.

7:34

But you know, it was just it was a it

7:36

was a long it's a long list, right? And

7:39

then there's a call in a column. And so

7:41

then I was like, can you

7:43

pay for the house? You know, can

7:45

you pay our bills? Right? Like,

7:47

how does this work? Right? If

7:49

this pays in this, you know, and

7:51

his famous phrase was every day's a work day, which

7:54

I think, you know, it's part of

7:56

the reason why, you know, he's 88

7:58

today. And, and if If he ever calls,

8:00

he's like, you're at work,

8:02

right? Or you're going to work. Or there's something

8:05

about, I'm doing something. And if

8:07

I'm having fun, he's like, yeah, but when are

8:09

you working today? So I

8:11

think the visual of that

8:13

for me was really impactful to

8:17

sort of risk. Nothing

8:19

is given and what

8:22

can take away and how do you have to

8:24

be conscious at any

8:26

moment about what you think

8:28

is next may not be. And

8:31

then obviously around money, as a young kid, when

8:33

your dad, who you look up to, he has

8:38

issues just like, I

8:41

mean, I guess as a child, you kind of think

8:43

your parents don't have those issues. They don't quite understand

8:45

that, right? So it was like, that was really eye-opening

8:47

for me as a child. Well,

8:50

my work, we're really focused on

8:52

talking about what can you control about

8:54

money versus what is the systemic factors?

8:57

And that example is so

9:00

deep, first of all, if you're a child. One

9:04

is like, yes, you pay your bill

9:06

or that crazy that

9:09

people can't or unable or are not paying their bill.

9:11

But on the flip side of that, it's also, wow,

9:14

a healthcare system that costs this amount of

9:16

money. But also your father

9:18

is a doctor. So

9:22

are we getting paid? Are we not going to

9:24

have money? And so that's just, that's an onion.

9:26

You just keep peeling back the layers on that one.

9:29

So many ways you can go with it. Obviously

9:32

at the time I had the moment, but when I

9:34

think back and I go, gosh, how much of that,

9:37

and of course he didn't know, affected

9:39

sort of my sequence of how

9:42

I managed my money over the rest of

9:44

my life. Yeah, and for me, my dad

9:46

was very similar in my financial journey where

9:48

it was like, what can I teach

9:50

you? What can I give you to learn? And

9:52

so yeah, he was very instrumental and I think

9:54

very similar is like, what are you doing? And

9:56

I'm like, I'm working. He's like, yeah, of course.

10:00

Yeah, we're out here

10:02

working. Capitalism is popping off. We're

10:04

out here working. That's what's happening.

10:06

That's right. You

10:10

are still based in Chicago. And I want to

10:12

talk to you about your days on the Chicago

10:14

trading floor. Tell me how you got your start

10:16

there. What was that like, especially

10:19

as a woman? Yes. So first

10:21

of all, I still talk about it as like

10:23

one of my most favorite years of working. I've

10:25

worked a lot of years. Still

10:27

one of my most favorite. For those who

10:29

are under a certain age, they wouldn't necessarily

10:32

know what those trading floors are like. But

10:34

if you watch Trading Places, it

10:36

seems like it's a movie version. But

10:38

it's like, that's real. It's really how

10:41

it was. It was crazy down there. It's

10:43

like a sporting event, right? Huge room, thousands

10:46

of large men, and

10:48

very few women. But I ended up there

10:50

really by accident. I wanted

10:52

to work in Chicago out of school. And

10:54

so I just interviewed at any job. And

10:58

they were literally all across the board. I

11:00

went to business school undergrad at Michigan and

11:03

Gold Blue. And when

11:05

I interviewed at this company called O'Connor &

11:07

Associates, who was quite infamous for options trading,

11:09

which I did not know that at the time, I

11:12

came to the interview and it was the first time there was casual

11:14

attire in the workplace. And

11:17

they were one of the groups I had. I was

11:19

interviewing at a bank and at an advertising firm and

11:21

whatever everybody was still dressed. And I was like, I

11:23

love this, I don't have to get dressed up. And

11:26

they had hagandahs and beer in their

11:28

fridge. And I was like,

11:31

I'm like, gosh, this is the

11:33

place to go. And by the way, I had no

11:35

idea I was going to the trading floor. Wow.

11:37

So I interviewed in the office. I'm

11:40

sure they either thought I knew or

11:42

understood or told me but I didn't get

11:44

it. So I did not actually know I was going down

11:46

there. And the funniest thing is that

11:48

first day, you put your

11:50

jacket on that represents in your badge and

11:53

I was taken down there and Drexel Burnham

11:55

declared bankruptcy that day, which is an extraordinary

11:58

part of sort of finding out. history,

12:00

you know, just that whole story. And

12:03

of course, the market is going crazy. And they,

12:05

and there's like steps on the side.

12:07

So the pits in the middle, steps

12:09

in the side where the booths are that belong to each

12:11

company. And they stuck me on the

12:13

steps down at the end of the booth. And they left

12:16

me there all day, never came back from me.

12:18

And I didn't know, I was like, you know,

12:21

aren't they gonna need me, of course, they didn't

12:23

need me at all. And I didn't

12:25

go for lunch, because I I wouldn't even know

12:27

where to go. You know, in women's

12:29

bathrooms, you know, God only knows

12:31

where they are. They're nowhere close. So I was like,

12:34

I can't leave because what if they come to get

12:36

me? Anyway, so

12:38

I was left there all day. But yeah, that's how

12:40

I ended up there. But to tell you the

12:43

truth, it is the interesting

12:45

thing about money, right? It

12:47

doesn't, is that it's

12:49

interesting, right? All

12:51

of these companies, all of these stories, they're

12:53

all people stories. And,

12:56

you know, we burden ourselves with the mass of

12:58

money or the budgeting of money. And a

13:00

lot of there's so many positives around

13:02

money that really can, you know,

13:04

that are interwoven in our lives every single day.

13:06

And so I think the beauty

13:09

of like, you actually got the physical energy

13:11

of money down there. So I think for

13:13

someone who didn't know she was interested in

13:15

the markets, it was a

13:17

great way to be exposed and unfortunate, you

13:19

know, that a lot of people can't get

13:21

exposed in that way today. Yeah, because I

13:23

think obviously there will be a lot more women down there if they

13:26

could, if there was something to do down there. But most

13:28

of them are closed. And so we have to find other

13:30

ways. But yeah, I think I was super lucky to be

13:32

down there. I will say I and you can speak

13:34

more to this, the first day, and

13:37

you describing that first day feels like the metaphor for

13:39

women in finance in general, or women in

13:41

like fintech, which is just like, we're

13:44

maybe gonna let

13:46

you in the door. And then once you get

13:48

here, we are not gonna tell you how anything

13:51

works. And we're basically just gonna abandon you and

13:53

you're gonna have to figure it out for yourself. And

13:56

you know that nobody's ever

13:58

seen that. said that before,

14:00

but I think that's dead on.

14:02

Yeah. Right. The good thing is where we're

14:04

strong enough and capable enough to do it.

14:07

The problem is, is, you know, the expectations

14:09

should be a little bit higher. Right. Unfortunately,

14:12

they fall short. So, I

14:14

mean, hard to go from just,

14:16

I realize it's one day, but wow, what

14:18

a day. To go from what you've

14:21

built now. So like you were

14:23

saying, like money is interesting and I grew

14:25

to understand not only its importance, but like

14:27

the power of it. So how did you

14:29

get from day one, total

14:32

deer in the headlights, I don't know where the

14:34

bathroom is to fucking self-made

14:36

billionaire. Like how do we, how do we

14:38

get from that day to now? Well,

14:41

I mean, definitely a marathon. It's not a sprint.

14:43

That's what I would say. Sure. You know, I

14:46

laugh a little bit because, you know,

14:48

I'm back to the household that I was

14:50

raised in, you know, with my, with my

14:52

dad every day is a work day. And

14:54

my mom was raising basically five kids by

14:56

herself. So every day is even

14:58

a bigger work day, frankly, for her than probably

15:00

him. And I, I

15:03

kept my head down. What, what I didn't know at

15:05

the time, I was really, I was learning a skill,

15:08

a valuable skill, options trading was the

15:10

actual skill, but really the interesting thing

15:12

about financial products, once you start to

15:14

understand them a little bit more, they're

15:16

like puzzle pieces and you use

15:18

different pieces of them at different times, depending on

15:20

what's going on. So I think

15:23

I was really lucky to learn what I

15:25

learned, not really understanding. I think the other

15:27

thing in retrospect that worked well, maybe in,

15:29

I didn't know I was a risk taker,

15:31

but I would probably call this taking risks

15:33

at the time. Somebody would give me

15:35

a job and I got offered a lot of

15:38

jobs young, I think probably because I was one

15:40

of few women. So I was, I

15:42

was noticed. Yes, I probably was above

15:44

average, but I don't think I was great at

15:47

my early jobs. Right. But I kept saying

15:49

yes, mostly because I didn't know

15:51

I could say no. And so, okay.

15:54

Yes. To each one of these

15:56

experiences I started to have, I talk

15:58

about it as. compound

16:00

experience, like compound

16:02

interest, right? It's working for me

16:05

because I take these risks early

16:07

in my career and each one

16:09

of those helped me with the next

16:11

risk and the next risk. And I'm taking,

16:13

I'm failing, I'm succeeding early on

16:15

as many as I can. So the compounding

16:18

starts to happen earlier. So

16:20

when I get, you

16:22

know, an offer in my mid-20s to start

16:24

this department at O'Connor, O'Connor was doing a

16:26

joint venture with Swiss Bank, this

16:29

over-the-counter equity derivative world, you know, a

16:31

whole other product that I didn't really

16:33

even know existed basically off exchange for.

16:36

I said yes, because was I going to say no?

16:38

And then all of a sudden I'm

16:40

building a business inside a business. And

16:43

that gave me the confidence later in my later

16:45

20s when the bank was moving to the

16:47

East Coast and my plan was Chicago. We

16:49

heard that in the beginning, it was all

16:51

about Chicago for me that I can now,

16:54

I just did this. So I'll just

16:56

do it again, naively, right? There's so

16:59

many naive thoughts around that. But that

17:01

was okay. It was my version of

17:04

what I thought I could do. And

17:06

my co-founder was interested in saying in

17:09

Chicago too, and he had helped do

17:11

the same thing inside the bank with us. So I

17:13

think it was one foot in

17:16

front of the other process. It wasn't

17:18

any massive vision that got

17:20

me there, but I was

17:22

okay not

17:25

succeeding. I think success for me

17:27

was trying, right?

17:29

I might have failed. Our plan

17:31

A, by the way, has never

17:34

happened. It's 26 years later. Really

17:37

plan B is what allowed us to make our

17:39

early money, which allowed us to do a whole

17:41

bunch of other things. But that

17:44

early sort of taking risks,

17:47

I always talk about taking risks, not more

17:50

risk. It doesn't have to be huge risk, right?

17:52

But every single day I wake up and

17:55

I do something I didn't do the

17:57

previous day, or I do a little bit different, or I

17:59

try it. A new strategy with

18:01

a different person. I it gets my

18:03

foot going forward each time and then

18:06

I'm gonna get enough push backwards several

18:08

times, but I think all those small

18:10

risks I took in my twenties for

18:13

sure allowed me then to take some

18:15

bigger wrestling the way in. and of

18:17

course I got comfortable doing it. All

18:20

that practice. says. Builds on

18:22

itself. might so I think that's why we

18:24

we have a nice long journey. That

18:26

was not easy. Lots of and

18:28

downs. Always talk about a money journey. It's

18:30

not. Supposed. To be. Smooth.

18:33

And up into the rights self, we don't

18:35

take those risks earlier. It's more painful to

18:37

do it later. In, it's like any

18:39

relationship in your life is. It can be perfect

18:42

now and your relationship with your money. It shouldn't

18:44

be. Perfect either. Otherwise, it's Gimme

18:46

limited. Yeah, Let's. Talk about

18:48

rest more because I thought about this so

18:50

much with talking with women and and my

18:53

own life. I I remember seeing the girls

18:55

who. Code erm credible ted talk where

18:57

she talks about like we teach boys

18:59

to take handsomely to go sweetie. States

19:01

to be perfect way and it takes

19:04

a think that this is ingrained in

19:06

us at a very young age as

19:08

women but specifically then to when we

19:10

talk about in a women and that's

19:12

saying we hear the word risk. Averse

19:14

Ray and I Love Sally crush She says risk

19:16

away or not. Risk Averse which I

19:18

think as much he can reclaim but

19:20

like I think that that is such

19:23

a thing that are so hesitant to

19:25

do with women. And let's talk about

19:27

like Poker Power specifically. So you felt

19:29

this incredible company that teaches women life

19:32

and career skills through the game of

19:34

poker and let's talk first about like

19:36

what Pokemon can teach us about there

19:38

are like how we can be more

19:41

comfortable with. Calculated. Risks in

19:43

our lives. I appreciate ask him

19:45

up, overpower our backup for one second.

19:47

I have a quiet person my whole

19:50

career and for many reasons. One of

19:52

them do that for kids as well

19:54

and. lot to do but

19:56

i also didn't think i got your actually

19:59

have some options are hard to understand. Back-end

20:01

technology, hard to understand, like how am I

20:03

relatable? But like, I always said if I

20:06

had something, I would

20:09

go out there and do this. The thing that,

20:12

by the way, is a risk for me, right? Being

20:14

public is a risk for me. Jenny, can I

20:16

pause you for a second? I would love

20:18

to define options trading for our audience. Because

20:20

if you've never heard of it, like, what is it? Yes,

20:23

of course. So options trading, options

20:25

are a financial instrument, there are

20:27

options on, they

20:29

are a derivative of an

20:32

asset. So you can think about options

20:34

on stocks, options on fixed

20:37

income products, you can think about options on

20:39

currencies. So there's lots of these

20:42

products. The ones in particular that I do are

20:44

options on stocks. And so instead

20:46

of buying a stock, or

20:48

selling a stock, you can use options

20:51

instead. But the difference

20:53

is I spend less money

20:55

upfront, let's say I want to buy a

20:58

call option on a stock, I

21:00

will spend less money upfront to do that because

21:02

I have the right to do it in the future,

21:05

not the obligation. Or let's say

21:07

I want to sell a stock in the future, I

21:09

have the right to sell a stock in the

21:11

future. So the one is a call option,

21:13

the other is a put option, both

21:15

for sure, and more advanced

21:18

financial interest instruments, but

21:20

they give you a chance to

21:23

have a little bit more leverage, you

21:26

get to hold on to, you know, the

21:28

total dollar amount of your stock,

21:30

and just spend a small amount

21:32

of money today. You can

21:35

also sell options that's a different

21:37

risk profile that I wouldn't recommend

21:39

necessarily for beginners right unless you

21:41

are doing overwrites, which means something

21:43

we won't go into detail today.

21:45

But like a lot that

21:47

happens in the fintech world,

21:50

there's a lot of language that

21:52

gets used that seems complicated. A

21:54

jargon. Exactly. And so I would

21:56

say that this is not too

21:58

complicated of a product. especially at its

22:01

most basic level to use

22:03

for those who are comfortable buying and

22:05

selling stocks already to learn about. Yeah

22:07

totally. I didn't mean to interrupt you I

22:10

just want to get a definition because I know people

22:12

are going to hear option trading and be like what

22:14

exactly does that mean? So yeah we were talking about

22:16

risks so talk to me about calculated risk how do

22:18

we learn to be more comfortable with risk and maybe

22:20

if you want to take it through the lens

22:23

of what you're doing at Poker Power. Absolutely.

22:25

So when I started

22:29

Poker Power it wasn't because I was

22:31

interested in poker per se. In fact

22:33

I was the opposite I'm like the

22:35

93% of women on the planet who

22:38

don't play poker and don't give a shit about

22:40

poker and in fact there's

22:42

so many poker players you know that I'm around

22:44

there's a lot of traders play poker that I

22:47

was like you were wasting time you should be

22:49

doing work and stuff. So I was against

22:51

it. I learned about it

22:54

accidentally and it was because of my daughter she

22:57

was 14 at the time playing a tennis

22:59

match this is not

23:01

what you're expecting here here right and

23:03

her dad was super frustrated because she

23:05

was losing and he

23:08

says come to me you

23:10

know tells me because

23:12

he doesn't want to tell her right how

23:14

frustrated he is and she may as

23:16

well be hitting against the wall she may

23:18

as well be hitting with her teacher she

23:20

doesn't realize that she's playing against

23:22

someone who's strategizing not

23:25

just based on what's going on in the game but what

23:27

not what they brought to the game but

23:29

what's going on in the game and she's

23:32

just missing it she's not thinking she

23:34

needs to learn to play poker and then I

23:36

was like forget what whatever

23:39

and I literally walked away

23:41

because I didn't care about poker and

23:43

like two weeks later I was like should

23:45

we teach our 14 year old daughter play poker

23:47

and that and that bothered me right because

23:50

I would never ask that three sons I would never ask

23:53

that about them and now I'm asking it about my

23:55

daughter like it's strange or something I was like what

23:57

planet are we on 2020 It

24:00

was 2019 at the time. Anyway,

24:02

fast forward. I was

24:04

like, I'm gonna do an experiment. I go to her

24:06

friend's moms and I'm like, can

24:08

I borrow your daughter? Let's just see what this

24:11

thing is all about. And next thing you

24:13

know, the moms are like, can we play too?

24:15

So 10 girls, 10 moms. And like literally

24:17

the skies opened. I always say

24:19

that because we wouldn't

24:21

be sitting here today. I wouldn't know you. You wouldn't

24:23

have gone to these cool events

24:26

with us. And if that

24:29

specific thing happened, which was the

24:31

girls and how they changed

24:33

from lesson one to lesson

24:35

four. So we did four one hour lessons

24:38

and it was shocking the amount

24:40

of confidence that was built. And so

24:42

this whole thing really was about confidence

24:45

for me. In young women, how do we

24:47

get them confident at what not? I will

24:49

represent poker table like a money table. Any

24:51

table you're sitting at where you're

24:54

doing business and they

24:56

sat up straighter, right? They

24:59

wanted to win. They

25:01

were competing, you

25:04

know, all in good faith, right? But

25:06

they weren't just giving away their chips because someone else

25:08

lost their chips, right? It was a

25:12

whole new body language. I

25:14

start to learn and I'm like, wait

25:16

a second. This looks like

25:18

that meeting I was just in. So now it

25:20

doesn't happen because you just learned the game, right?

25:23

Again, a lot of jargon. There's a lot of

25:25

rules, a lot happening at a poker table. But

25:28

after I got into those multiple lessons and

25:30

started playing more, I was like, I

25:33

started actually personally using it as

25:35

a framework for what cards

25:38

I would say to my partners. I would say

25:40

to my co-founder, we're doing a deal. Like what

25:42

cards do you think they have? Where are

25:44

they sitting at the table? How big is their

25:46

chip stack? And I started using it.

25:48

I was like, this

25:50

isn't just about confidence for these young girls.

25:54

This could actually work creating

25:56

framework for grown women,

25:59

for anybody. It was male, female, it

26:01

doesn't matter who I'm talking about, around

26:04

strategy. So what are you

26:06

doing, why are you doing it, and

26:09

who are you doing it with? All of those things

26:11

come into play in business. So

26:14

all of a sudden I had these young girls building

26:16

confidence and now, especially women,

26:18

because women don't play this game, I

26:20

realize that men are getting practice doing

26:22

this when they're 12 and 14.

26:25

And then again, when they get to college and they

26:28

play hand after hand after hand, so they're

26:30

testing out how

26:33

to negotiate. They're testing how

26:35

to take more or less risk.

26:38

They're testing out like, wait, what do I actually

26:40

know? What can I

26:42

infer? Oh, wait,

26:44

more cards came out? Information's

26:47

changed. Now, what's happening at the

26:49

table as a result of new information? And

26:53

now I can

26:55

start to see when I have to make

26:57

real life big decisions. Of

27:00

course men will always tell us that you have to be

27:02

poker for money. It's like you do not have

27:04

to be poker for money to get the benefits

27:06

of poker. You can eventually play for money if

27:08

you want, but you

27:10

will start to see that

27:13

strategy didn't work. Yeah,

27:15

it worked before with

27:18

a new person, didn't work so well. Why

27:21

is that? How come? What

27:23

do they do differently? Poker is like chess.

27:26

It's a mind sport. It's a game. It's a

27:28

proven game of skill, but you're still

27:30

given two cards at the beginning, which are luck, right?

27:33

That is the little nuance there.

27:36

So what do you do? Especially

27:42

over the last couple of years, I have craved

27:44

comfort in any form I can get

27:46

it. One of the most comforting things

27:48

I do is take, I was

27:51

going to say take showers, but it's true. Taking

27:54

really warm showers at the end of the long

27:56

day is something that I really, really look forward

27:58

to. And it's something

28:01

that not only helps my mental

28:03

health, but of course helps me

28:05

feel confident in my body, helps

28:07

me feel clean and comfy.

28:09

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purchase of a website or domain. I

30:00

always love this example,

30:03

right? If

30:06

you're in a meeting and you get

30:08

bad cards, right? What you expected to happen

30:10

is not happening. If you

30:12

never play your cards, you're

30:15

automatically losing because in the game

30:17

there are antes and the money will be taken away.

30:21

It doesn't matter my cards. I have to figure out how

30:23

to play anyway. And if I want to be

30:25

asked back to that next meeting, I have to take

30:27

risk with not such good cards.

30:30

And by the way, if I practice doing

30:32

that before I'm actually in that scenario, amen.

30:36

I've seen it before. Of course I'm

30:38

going to be more comfortable. Practice

30:41

helps everybody in anything they do. This

30:43

is one place women never

30:45

practice in their hobbies, in

30:48

their play as they're growing up.

30:50

So now all of a sudden I get to practice taking risk

30:54

and get smarter.

30:59

And recognize all those physical

31:01

feelings that happen from doing it, right?

31:04

And then the beauty of tech,

31:07

right? I can practice on an

31:09

app. I was never a big

31:11

app game player. I'm like, I'm shocked

31:13

how much I know about somebody. Evelyn

31:16

G. Because the

31:18

way she plays me, goddamn it, I'm going to beat her. PokerPower

31:23

has created a

31:26

community, a safe place to

31:28

go and play and to practice. And

31:31

so we can get those reps under our

31:33

belt on taking risk. I

31:36

am not a big believer. And maybe because I

31:38

grow up with four brothers, I've worked with men

31:40

most of my life, right? That there's really any

31:42

difference. I think there's some for

31:45

sure. There's some human things

31:48

that make us different in taking risk.

31:50

I think that majority of the biggest

31:52

differences come from there's like

31:54

a whole decade of risk taking they're taking

31:56

before we even really start

31:59

to... And

32:01

then at that point we have so much at risk,

32:03

right? We have our first apartment, we have our first

32:05

house, we have kids, we have, and now it's like,

32:07

shit, that's not a good time. The good time is to

32:10

do it young, which is why the

32:12

beauty sort of poker power, we started, we've taught

32:14

it over 250, either

32:16

companies or organizations, which is really

32:19

crazy. Cause this really was about starting

32:22

girls young. But if we can teach these

32:24

20, 30, 40 year olds, 50

32:26

year olds, they can teach their daughters, right?

32:30

So they're not in the same situation that we

32:32

can change a generation of women practicing

32:35

taking risk much sooner

32:38

in their lives. I will say

32:41

one of the most bad-ass

32:43

things I've ever experienced was sitting down

32:45

at that table. Like it's almost

32:47

gonna make me cry. Like truly it's

32:49

like, I am such a brand ambassador

32:52

for what you all are doing. Because

32:54

it taught so many things and just

32:56

like this, I am

32:59

extremely confident, right? And I've had

33:01

a lot of pretty fucking bad-ass moments in

33:03

my life. And I will say one of them is like stacking

33:06

chips, just like stacking chips and

33:08

just feeling like a baller. And I'm like, I do

33:11

not smoke cigars, but like I need a cigar

33:13

in my hand. And like, I am like,

33:15

I'm literally like man spreading that at the

33:17

table. And I'm like, this feels so powerful

33:19

because just like you were saying, I think

33:21

that there's so many things you can learn

33:23

from it. And one of the first things,

33:25

when I sat down at the table at

33:28

this event where

33:30

one of your incredible poker players was teaching us

33:32

is it's like, you're not playing the cards, you're

33:34

playing somebody else, right? You're playing the people at

33:36

the table. And so that even

33:38

that is like, okay, me as an entrepreneur,

33:41

every single time I walk into a

33:43

meeting, you're exactly right. Like, yes, I'm playing what

33:45

the situation is, right? What the cards are, but

33:48

I'm really trying to figure out what do you

33:50

want? What do you value? What are

33:52

you trying to get out of this, right? And

33:54

in a negotiation, even if you're not a business

33:56

owner, right? If you negotiate your salary, of course

33:59

you want. more money. That's why you're negotiating.

34:01

But the question is like, okay,

34:03

what is my boss value? What

34:05

is my boss value? Because if I can give

34:07

them what they value, then I can

34:10

show up as the best version of myself to

34:12

get a raise to get more money. I have

34:14

to figure out the other person across from me.

34:16

And then to your point about calculated risk, there's

34:19

times where, okay, even if I

34:21

feel a little bit unsure, I need

34:23

to put more of my

34:26

money, my energy, my time into something

34:28

to see if this pays off. And

34:31

it might not, but you'll learn something

34:33

from it. Right? And then to your

34:35

point before of like, okay, you have

34:37

to you have to participate. Because if

34:39

you don't participate, you lose money, you're

34:41

left behind. This is also directly related

34:43

to how women manage finances. Like,

34:46

if you do not opt in, you've

34:48

opted out, right? Like, no doubt. But surely, if

34:50

you have not come in and said, I am

34:52

an active participant in my own life and my

34:54

own money, it doesn't

34:56

matter. So I just, yeah, there

34:58

were so many things. And then, you know, when

35:01

do you bet high? When do you not bet

35:03

at all? When do you just say, you know

35:05

what, actually, these cards are kind of shit. And

35:07

the smart decision is to just say fold, like,

35:09

and this is just give the cards back. Like,

35:12

I just loved it. And I hope everybody has

35:14

the opportunity to go to a poker power event.

35:16

But just it was such a good encapsulation of

35:18

I think every single aspect

35:21

of being a woman generally, but

35:23

specifically, like trying to get your

35:25

financial shit together as a woman

35:27

and also navigating the world as an

35:29

entrepreneur, it was just so helpful. It's

35:32

so helpful. And I, you know, I, we were

35:34

talking earlier, worst case, you have

35:36

fun, right? Right. And, well,

35:38

in the other surprise that

35:40

we found, since we started with

35:42

the networking, right, this is what

35:45

yeah, right, networking, and all

35:47

the golf, it's like golf, but golf is not

35:49

as fun. Right, right.

35:52

And we take all different women, all different

35:54

age levels, all starting at the same place,

35:56

learning together. And yeah, whether you're doing

35:58

it, I mean, we have our some

36:00

of our law firms have been unbelievable, but the law

36:02

firms, they'll take their clients and they'll

36:05

learn with their clients together. You are building

36:07

relationships at the table, even though you're

36:09

competing. The coolest thing for the women too

36:11

at a poker table is like, even

36:13

though everybody wants to, when we are

36:16

playing to win, then we are teaching, right?

36:18

And to win, everybody's so happy for everybody

36:20

at the table. Like, it is, you're

36:22

making new friends and that

36:25

network can spread more. We're always looking for

36:27

something, right? Like, yes,

36:30

I love a good wine night or a book

36:32

club, but here in 2024, we can do

36:34

a two for one. We

36:36

can learn skill and

36:39

network and F1, like bonus.

36:41

Yeah. Yeah, and I remember,

36:43

so the event I went to, it was my second

36:45

one a couple of nights ago in the city, it

36:48

was literally, there was a woman across from me and

36:50

granted I've done this before, right? It was my second

36:52

event, so I knew a little bit more, but the

36:54

woman across from me, we were the only two still

36:56

in the round. And I can tell she was hesitant

36:59

with her cards and she also, you know, she's learning.

37:01

So she was like, I don't think I have good

37:03

cards. And so then for me, I was like, well,

37:05

I don't have good cards either, but I am just

37:08

gonna bet her until she can't, until she's

37:10

not confident anymore. And so then that's what

37:12

happened is she folded and I got the

37:14

pot and I looked at her and I

37:16

said, what's your name? And she told me her name because we

37:18

hadn't introduced ourselves yet. And I go, my

37:21

cards were shit. And I like showed her my cards.

37:23

And I was like, and obviously like,

37:25

you wouldn't have said in a real game, like, I

37:27

don't think my cards are very good. But I was

37:29

like, I could tell you were not confident. And so

37:31

I got up

37:33

to the point where I knew you weren't gonna

37:35

be comfortable matching my bet so that

37:37

I got the pot. And she was like, oh,

37:40

and so it was like this moment of like, it

37:42

was just, yeah, it was so much learning.

37:44

It was so cool. Well, in

37:47

how each individual takes those

37:50

moments back for their work,

37:52

right? So I love the differentiation. Like

37:54

we have a nutritionist in her version of

37:57

it. And then an HR executive, her version

37:59

of it. Then obviously, someone

38:01

who's in FinTech, their version of it,

38:04

everybody thinks about it

38:06

differently and relates to that situation

38:08

slightly differently. But we're

38:11

all benefiting. Then when we all speak

38:13

about it, even better. Negotiation is of

38:15

course the big one that comes up, negotiating salaries,

38:18

negotiating divorces, I think like comes up a lot

38:20

too. But it's

38:22

an opportunity for us all to go, yeah,

38:24

I'm in that situation and that reminds me

38:27

of, and then I can

38:29

share it and what did I do and

38:31

what happened as a result, and

38:33

how I could do it differently the

38:35

next time. I'm going to think about it differently. Again,

38:38

so back to that idea of compound experience.

38:41

If I can't get those experiences every

38:43

year, I'm doing a different

38:45

job or whatever it might be inside a

38:47

company, whatever allows you to have those experiences,

38:50

I can play hands and

38:52

I can get experience through hands. I

38:54

can get experience playing hands of poker.

38:57

That's what I want women to know.

38:59

There are other ways that you can help

39:01

yourself today that are

39:03

different, unusual, and

39:06

really beneficial to your, there's

39:08

a lot of analogies people have from poker to

39:10

life. But for us

39:12

specifically, we want to talk about poker to money

39:15

and to your job. How

39:18

do I do that? Get my reps in.

39:21

Get my reps in and playing. Whether it's online

39:23

or in person, the person part is just

39:25

so fun. We

39:28

do that all the time if we could. But in the

39:30

meantime, I can do it in my PJs on the couch.

39:33

Right. You were saying before about like,

39:35

poker also teaches women to win. I

39:38

just want to talk about that because I fucking

39:40

love it every time I get to win at

39:42

anything, but especially anytime I get to

39:45

do this and just grab chips and bring it towards

39:47

me, it's very fun and powerful. But

39:49

I think that a lot of women, through

39:52

no fault of our own again because we're taught

39:54

to be perfectionist and we're taught to be so altruistic

39:56

and I've mentioned this in my book, but almost

39:58

to a fault this. altruism of just like

40:01

put everybody else first before you put yourself

40:03

first. Do we have a fear

40:05

of success? Like do we have

40:07

a fear of winning and how

40:09

can poker help us not feel

40:11

so fearful of, of winning? Yeah,

40:15

there's a lot in that. I will start

40:17

with sort of the tactical and then maybe, uh, you know, bottoms

40:19

up and we'll go top down. Every

40:21

time we don't negotiate, whether

40:24

it's a job, it's

40:27

your mortgage, it's the

40:30

price of the house, not just the mortgage. Right.

40:33

I remember being in a room with very senior woman

40:35

one time and a woman who runs a bank, you

40:37

know, she said, how many of you have ever negotiated

40:39

your mortgage? Three

40:41

people raised their hand and they're like 30 some

40:43

in there. Right. If

40:45

we're not negotiating these things, all

40:48

of those dollars back

40:50

to compounding. The

40:52

male is compounding more dollars than you

40:54

are compounding. We are never catching up.

40:57

This is why they talk about such long periods

40:59

of time for equal pay to

41:02

happen. Equal pay or equality around

41:04

money to happen for men and women. We

41:07

have to do, it's not an option to

41:10

not negotiate those things for us,

41:12

for us to catch up because

41:14

every dollar that isn't in there

41:16

today doesn't compound tomorrow. Right. So

41:19

that's sort of bottoms up. So I guess really the question

41:21

is, is fear of success really fear of failure? What

41:24

do you think? Again, if we're teaching

41:26

girls to be perfect and that

41:28

is what we're striving for, well

41:30

also very realistically understanding

41:32

that perfection is completely

41:35

unobtainable, that should be a release

41:37

of like, you know what, I'm going to do the best

41:39

that I can, but understand that this is never going to

41:41

be perfect. And that's just going to be the way it

41:43

is. But I think rather it's this crippling debilitating

41:45

thing, which is if I can't do it

41:48

perfect, I'm not going to do it at

41:50

all. And I'm sure you've seen this. Literally

41:52

I've talked with thousands of women at this

41:54

point, and it's the same thing with investing. I

41:57

need to be an investing expert before I. I

42:01

need to know exactly that this count is

42:03

the most perfect account I can open, Roth

42:06

IRA versus traditional IRA. And

42:09

then once I actually open one, I, you

42:11

know, okay, well, I have to find the

42:13

perfect investment and I'm going to

42:15

spend hours and hours and hours researching. But then

42:17

of course that never happens because you,

42:19

you encounter sexism or you encounter jargon

42:21

and you just end up failing because

42:23

you're like, if I can't do this

42:26

perfect and know that it's a hundred

42:28

percent the right decision, I'm not

42:30

going to do it. And so I think

42:32

that when we're told that this is

42:34

the thing we should aspire towards is

42:37

perfection. It impacts our money,

42:39

it impacts our relationships, it impacts our

42:41

careers rather than understanding like my

42:43

number one rule as an entrepreneur is like

42:45

done is better than perfect. Like yes,

42:48

we work to improve it along

42:50

the way, but like sometimes you've just got to

42:52

get things started or things done. So it

42:54

is interesting that you've even framed it as like, is

42:56

a fear a success, a fear of failure?

43:00

Because even in trying, I think,

43:02

you know, that is succeeding, even

43:04

if the outcome isn't what we

43:06

want. Right. It's

43:08

the same thing with negotiating. I tell people like

43:11

a successful negotiation is not you got what you

43:13

wanted because there's other factors you could go

43:15

in being the most, you know, hard

43:18

worker, best prepared bunch of

43:20

data saying you're underpaid and still your boss

43:22

could say, well, why aren't you just grateful?

43:24

Right. Like that successful

43:26

negotiation is did I try did I prep did

43:28

I do everything I possibly could within my control

43:31

to make the outcome something

43:33

positive for me? I know I just

43:35

said like six things there. But like,

43:37

I probably I think that yeah, maybe the

43:39

fear of success is what if I don't

43:41

succeed? What if I don't succeed? And what

43:44

if I fail? Right. And I think

43:46

if we don't reframe, you know, so

43:48

the interesting thing about and especially those

43:50

identifies mail when it comes to money

43:53

is that not only is

43:55

it they don't expect

43:57

perfection, they do expect to lose. And

43:59

right. I had an interesting

44:02

story recently and as

44:05

a gentleman who didn't know what I did and he

44:07

was talking about his firm

44:09

which is a large financial

44:11

firm and a woman who

44:14

came and asked which was great to be a partner

44:16

and then she went through all of the things that she

44:19

was perfect at. So she clearly

44:21

has had a fairly longish career

44:23

and the only thing he wanted

44:25

here was to be

44:30

was about her fails. She didn't have

44:32

any because she thought she

44:34

had to be perfect along the way. Because

44:38

not only is it

44:40

a learning opportunity and not

44:42

only people want to see how you get

44:45

back up, people

44:47

want to see and know that you can get back

44:49

up. So it actually isn't

44:52

helpful to be perfect in

44:55

many cases. Without

44:57

opening a whole other can of worms too, I think

44:59

we are living in a society that demands perfection

45:01

of the women. We

45:04

need to talk about this another time but one of the

45:06

things that absolutely drives me bonkers about any

45:08

sort of woman who has achieved success in

45:10

entrepreneurship is that we're just waiting for her

45:12

to fail. When she does, typically

45:16

her company is devastated because of it. We're

45:20

out here with Adam Newman getting a bunch of money every

45:22

single time. He wants to start a new company. So

45:24

that's a whole other side of it but we are

45:27

again conditioned to achieve

45:30

perfection both because we

45:33

feel the internal need but also

45:35

the external pressure of you must

45:37

be perfect or else you

45:39

could lose your career, you could lose your job, you could lose

45:42

your business. Financial

45:47

Feminist is supported by State Farm. This

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46:45

only a kick. A

46:48

jump. A block.

46:52

It's only a serve. It's

46:54

only a tackle. A

46:56

run. It's only for the fair. After

47:00

all, it's only pressure. You

47:02

got this. Adidas.

47:14

No question. And for sure, if

47:16

someone were to look at who I was when

47:18

I first started in the business, I

47:21

would definitely fit that mold.

47:23

I would have expected. I

47:25

had to say yes. How could I say no? What

47:30

I believe they thought was being perfect was me

47:32

saying yes. But

47:34

the interesting thing about my career, and the

47:36

only reason I know this, the beauty of

47:38

being in trading as a young person is you

47:40

never win 100% of the time. You

47:44

have a super high fail rate. So if

47:46

you looked at our trades, it's like 46%

47:48

of the time we fail. That's

47:51

a really high fail rate. So the

47:54

only way I got comfortable with it was

47:56

doing a lot of it. Now,

47:58

it doesn't mean you have to lose a lot. of money

48:00

along the way, right? Again, the

48:03

earlier you take risk, the better. The more you

48:05

learn, the more they compound. But if

48:07

you take no risk

48:10

and then expect to take risk, it's

48:12

much harder. You just

48:14

set yourself up for a

48:16

more difficult journey. So

48:19

how awkward does it feel to, I don't

48:21

know, you're in another country and someone says,

48:23

oh, it's all about negotiation. And

48:25

you've never negotiated anything. And I want to negotiate

48:27

the price of something like, oh, God, it just

48:29

it's uncomfortable. Right. And you have to get

48:31

comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah, to be comfortable being

48:34

uncomfortable. If you don't, if you start to

48:36

do that sooner, right, it's

48:38

a new year, right? If this is not

48:40

something we're comfortable with playing poker. Oh my

48:42

God, the first time I was at a

48:44

real poker table. Oh

48:46

my God. And this is driving me. This

48:50

is COVID. This isn't 21. This isn't that

48:53

long ago. Think about all the things. Yeah.

48:55

Well, you don't know my whole history, but

48:57

like, I'm not young. And I said at

48:59

the table, I was like, my, I thought my heart

49:01

was going to come out of my chest. What

49:05

have we done that we've created this

49:07

thing around poker in our society? It's

49:10

crazy, but it exists. It's real. I

49:12

understand it. But like, if I didn't

49:14

do it, first of all, what am I representing? But second

49:16

of all, like, I still have to

49:19

go. I, those, all those

49:21

feelings that society has put in us,

49:23

they're there. They're not going

49:25

away. Right. The only way they're getting better is

49:28

if we go through them, you know, people ask

49:30

me about risk. I always think, well,

49:32

I don't have an option to not take

49:34

risk. So I may

49:36

as well go through it and suffer the

49:38

ups and downs of it sooner.

49:40

So more risks within us

49:42

rather than bigger risk. Yeah.

49:46

Each one, the small ones, it helps all

49:48

that physical stuff that happens when you take

49:50

risk too, the more you do

49:52

it. It's funny because on our, on the poker

49:54

power play up, when you play, like,

49:57

even though the women don't know the women, because like, you can

49:59

have a different name. or whatever it is. Yes, you

50:01

can use video and you can

50:03

play and have this community that's

50:06

up on the screen. But like, assume you're playing and your name's

50:08

up there and it's 10 p.m. at night. Even

50:11

though the women might have learned with us getting on the app,

50:14

that's just a risk in and of itself. It's

50:16

one of the reasons we call our first lesson courage. Just

50:20

playing this game, doing these things that

50:22

are uncomfortable, there's something really

50:24

peculiar about the game of

50:26

poker, but also makes

50:28

all of those other risks you're going to take seem

50:31

a little bit smaller. If I can

50:34

do that thing, all

50:36

these other ones I can start to do. And by the way,

50:38

I fold a lot of hands and

50:40

I don't have perfect cards. Oh, and I bluffed. Oh,

50:42

wait, I have a

50:44

bunch of different strategies for different situations.

50:47

What is that like? What would I do? How would

50:49

I think about it? And I'm sure

50:51

maybe, I don't know if you have any hands like this, but you're

50:54

in your in bag on a hand and that

50:56

last card comes on the table. You're like, yep,

51:00

and then you have to fold. You

51:02

have to fold. We have all that money in. I

51:04

didn't fold, Jenny. I should have. I did not.

51:08

My eyes were bigger than my stomach. And

51:10

yeah, I did not fold. Right. Right. You

51:12

learned. Right. But you learned. Right. Yep. And

51:15

you learned you go next time. Do I fold or don't I

51:18

fold? Right. Obviously, in the one hand, you didn't

51:20

fold and you got all the chips. So yeah.

51:22

Well, and not to harp on

51:24

the harp on the point too much

51:26

further, but like this failure of success to like

51:28

the flip side of it, like I do think

51:31

when we do taste success as women, I think

51:33

it scares us because I think we've been taught

51:35

to not trust ourselves and we've been taught to

51:37

not trust our own power and our own intuition.

51:40

And and so, you know, even again

51:42

at a table, like I feel this, I can

51:44

see this with other women, you know, even when

51:46

they get good cards, they're kind of like, should

51:49

I bet? Like I remember the first time I went

51:51

the first time I experienced it. I remember our

51:55

lovely person at the table was like, no, you need to

51:57

bet more chips than that. Like you have aces, like you

51:59

have But pocket aces, you need to bet more

52:01

chips than that. And so even that is like

52:03

that serious success, I think, on the flip side

52:06

of it, like, let's say we do succeed. I

52:09

think that that's also scary, because it means that we

52:11

have to, per opponent's hand, go

52:13

all in on ourselves. It means that we

52:15

have to trust ourselves enough

52:17

to run a business or to, you know,

52:20

lead a department or to run a household.

52:22

And that's kind of scary on the flip

52:24

side of it, too. That's right.

52:26

What we teach at Boker Power, right?

52:29

It is a game of being

52:31

aggressive. And if

52:34

you don't, you will lose all

52:36

your chips. Right. And aggressive

52:38

is not a bad word. That was one of the lessons,

52:40

too, is that like... And aggressive is not a bad

52:42

word. Yeah, aggressive is not a bad word. It

52:45

is a representation of your confidence in your

52:47

hands. Whether you actually have a card or

52:49

not, nobody knows. Just you know.

52:52

But if you represent something weak, now, by the

52:54

way, that might be a strategy, right?

52:58

The initial inclination on majority

53:00

of women when we sit at the table is like,

53:02

just going to match that bet. I'm just

53:04

going to put the minimum I possibly can in.

53:07

Well, guess what happens when you do that? The

53:10

entire dynamic at the table changes. They

53:13

now understand something about you. What

53:16

did you just represent? So

53:18

when you think about being in a meeting,

53:20

when you think about going and raising money

53:22

for as an entrepreneur, if

53:25

you, what they call in Boker limping in,

53:27

what did you represent? Who represent about yourself

53:30

versus if I came out and I did three

53:32

times the big blind or I made a

53:34

larger bet. You

53:36

have to think about what the other person is thinking. And

53:39

I think we miss that. It's all about, because I

53:41

don't want to screw up because I have to be

53:43

perfect back to your original point. There's

53:46

all kinds of logic why this is happening the way

53:48

it's happening, which is why we have to make a

53:50

conscious decision, not a subconscious decision

53:52

to do something differently. And so when

53:54

you meet our poker power teachers, they're

53:56

there for you to say, nope, we're

53:59

doing And you're like, hmm, but

54:02

you're all there together in a safe place

54:04

and safe environment understanding. By the

54:06

way, guess how men learn, right? When they're

54:09

10 or 12 or young boys

54:11

learn or whatever it is, they learn

54:13

by betting a little bit and

54:15

a little bit. But pretty soon they learn

54:17

by betting, oh, that doesn't work, which is

54:19

why they then become more aggressive at the poker

54:21

table. Just like life, they

54:24

learned it. So we just have to learn it.

54:27

It's not that we can't do it. We just have

54:29

never been given opportunity. There's no place that

54:31

we are learning this. We're not learning it in school. We're

54:34

not learning it with our play, with our friends.

54:37

We have to learn. We can

54:39

say these top-down words about

54:41

not being perfect, but now we can actually

54:44

practice it. We have to

54:46

practice not being perfect. I don't have the perfect

54:48

cards. What am I doing in that circumstance? And

54:50

what do I do, especially if I actually want

54:52

to win the game? My

54:54

last question for you. You have

54:56

said that money isn't everything, but

54:58

everything is money. Talk to me

55:01

about that. Sounds good when you say it

55:03

and there's a long pause. So

55:08

one of the things that I've learned, certainly

55:10

being here and trying for a very long

55:12

time to get more

55:14

women in a position of

55:17

what I always say, capital allocation, allocating money,

55:20

making decisions around money. Right?

55:24

That was for my own, as

55:27

a firm, a firm's benefit, right? Having diversification

55:29

of people who are making decisions around money.

55:32

But what I learned as I expanded

55:34

into other businesses is that

55:36

it's not just about what I was thinking about

55:39

for a trading business. It's about every business. So

55:42

if you are not connected to

55:44

the money in some way, you

55:47

are not going to be in a position of

55:49

leadership or power where you are, unless

55:51

of course you're doing it yourself, which is of

55:53

course, if you're doing it yourself, you're connected to

55:55

money directly. I don't care what

55:57

your job is, but if

55:59

you're not thinking about how you're either making

56:02

money or saving money and how what directly

56:04

you are doing every day is doing that,

56:07

you are ultimately not going to be pulled up

56:09

into those leadership ranks and where you want to be. I always

56:12

say that you know where you want to be and where you

56:14

are, what's in between

56:16

that is money. Now so

56:19

does that mean you have to be an expert

56:21

in money and expert in math and all these?

56:23

Absolutely not. You are

56:25

a totally capable human being who

56:27

is running your life and running your home and

56:29

you have all the skills you need. I'm a

56:31

hundred percent certain. You just now

56:34

have to be brave enough to say I can

56:36

represent the money side of this.

56:39

I understand it. So everything you are doing,

56:41

I mean frankly this is to

56:43

personal life and to business, you

56:45

know you wake up it is somehow about money. What

56:48

am I doing that day? How am I making

56:50

my choices about time and going about

56:52

things? It's there's a money side

56:54

to that equation every single

56:57

time. Now nobody wants their, well

56:59

some people do but we

57:01

don't necessarily want our life to be about

57:03

money, right? It's just

57:06

a byproduct of living and

57:08

if we want our money to work for us we

57:11

have to be cognizant that it

57:13

is surrounding us at all times and that

57:15

we have to consciously make a decision whether

57:17

we want to control it or have it

57:19

control us. And you know

57:21

my choice would be control so that

57:23

which then means you need strategy, you

57:26

need to understand taking risk around it

57:28

and then you need to be able

57:30

to execute and that all comes from

57:32

practice doing it and being really aware around it

57:35

and not avoiding it. You know I always say

57:37

you have to be conversational. It's been a

57:39

minimum conversational about money which is part

57:41

of the basics sort of live but

57:43

every step you can take to be integrated

57:46

especially at your place of work around

57:49

how you connect to the money will

57:51

benefit you in all aspects of your

57:53

life. Jenny thank

57:55

you for your time. I could talk to you for

57:57

about 62,000 more hours but

58:00

where can people find out more about you? We

58:02

didn't get to touch about your business. We'll have

58:04

you back on to talk about all of that.

58:06

But tell me more about Poker Power.

58:08

Tell me more about where we can find

58:10

you. Yeah, absolutely. pokerpower.com, we'd love

58:13

to see you there. You can come

58:15

learn with us as an individual, as

58:17

a company, as an organization, as a

58:19

group. PokerPower Play is our

58:21

app where you can go on and start

58:23

to learn on your own and practice every

58:26

day. p6.com, of

58:28

course, is our family company

58:30

that we have lots of

58:32

different ways we're touching your viewers

58:34

who are using FinTech tools every single day,

58:36

including yours. So we're super excited. We gotta

58:38

come back and talk about yours at

58:41

one point too. I would love

58:43

that. Thank you. Thanks for your work. Thank you.

58:47

Thank you to Jenny for joining us for this

58:49

episode. You can go to jennyjust.com to learn more

58:51

about her or look at PokerPower. You can

58:54

literally download the PokerPower app and get started

58:56

playing. We love and appreciate

58:58

highlighting women doing really, really cool work in these

59:00

spaces. So hopefully you love this episode. Feel free

59:02

to share it with a friend. As always, Financial

59:04

Feminist, thanks for being here and we'll talk to

59:06

you soon. Thank

59:12

you for listening to Financial Feminist and her

59:15

first 100K podcast. Financial Feminist

59:17

is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced

59:19

by Kristen Fields, Associate

59:21

Producer, Tanisha Grant, research by

59:23

Ariel Johnson, audio and video

59:25

engineering by Alyssa Medcast, marketing

59:28

and operations by Karina

59:30

Patel, Amanda LeFue, Elizabeth

59:32

McCumber, Masha Bakmikieba, Taylor

59:34

Cho, Kaelin Sprinkle, Sasha

59:36

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