0:00

And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast

0:02

is Josie Freeman from Foster

0:04

De Novo . This is a fantastic

0:06

episode and I'll tell you why because Josie's

0:09

had seven promotions in eight years

0:11

at Foster De Novo and

0:13

she breaks down her career journey

0:15

for you today to fully understand

0:17

what she did in each and every

0:20

role . We talk about the power of

0:22

mentorship , why that

0:24

was so important in her career , the

0:26

training , the development that she has

0:28

received and the ability

0:31

to progress her career through

0:33

a clear career development

0:35

framework and why that is super

0:37

important . You are going to love

0:40

this episode if you're an entry-level

0:42

person in financial planning

0:46

. Josie

1:07

, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast

1:09

on this Foster De Novo special how are you ?

1:10

I'm good , thank you . How are you ?

1:11

I'm very good , you're very pregnant .

1:13

I am yes . Yeah , they've

1:15

snuck this in just before my mat leave was due to start

1:17

. I was good of them to do that . Very good , very

1:20

good , well , fantastic , well , I'm really pleased you're

1:22

here today no-transcript

1:53

during uni and sort of

1:55

just finished and didn't know what I wanted to do , so

1:57

I just sort of stayed there and ended up going full-time

1:59

. Um , and then actually I

2:02

got into it by a complete fluke . It was actually

2:04

such a strange circumstance . Someone hid

2:06

my car and I was in this e-jag

2:09

thing . It was massive , it was brand new

2:11

and I was 21 driving this jag and my friend

2:13

was like , oh , my mum's got this job , why

2:16

don't you go and talk to her ? So I pull up outside

2:18

her house in this jag and I'm like this is just the most bizarre

2:20

thing that's ever happened . And she starts

2:22

talking to me about this job that she's got , that's in

2:24

pensions , and I'm like I don't know what that

2:27

is . She starts talking to me about letters

2:29

of authority , all that sort

2:31

of side , and I was like , okay , sounds good

2:33

. I mean , it's probably better than what I'm doing now . So

2:36

I sort of just went for it and ended up

2:38

going in an entry level administrator

2:40

role with no previous experience

2:42

.

2:42

Oh so fantastic . Administrator

2:45

role , um with no previous experience , oh so fantastic . So your first yeah from waitrose into foster

2:47

day novo .

2:48

Yeah , I mean , my degree is in history as well , so it's completely

2:50

not related . I had no idea what I wanted

2:52

to do . I just enjoyed history , thought it's quite

2:54

. You know , you can apply it across a lot of subjects

2:56

and it's quite detailed case

2:58

study oriented . So that's why I picked that .

3:00

But isn't it funny ? We often fall

3:02

into companies , we fall into jobs , and

3:04

you go to university with probably all

3:07

the best intentions of doing a degree that

3:09

you think is then going to lead you into the job that

3:11

you're meant to have , and the degree is part of

3:13

it , but actually it's a chance encounter

3:15

. You know , it's a , it's a some

3:17

, it's a , it's somebody , offering you an interview

3:19

that you've never heard of massive , yes , that sliding

3:22

doors moment , isn it ?

3:23

I did actually have a place to do my GED

3:25

and go into law and go that side

3:27

and I was sort of looking to that , thinking well , where do

3:29

I go , and sort of ended up here

3:31

.

3:32

Never heard of financial services . You know , financial

3:34

planning is not something that we should talk about , is it ? No , not at all

3:36

. I

3:48

don't remember anything about it , and that was the first time I'd heard . Like many of us , conversations

3:50

about money do do make us feel uncomfortable

3:53

, and that's such a huge subject that financial education

3:55

. I'm loving all the financial coaches you're seeing on

3:57

instagram and tiktok now , because they are really

3:59

targeting those types of money

4:01

beliefs , aren't they ?

4:02

yeah , it's massive because it just doesn't exist

4:04

in schools . You know , you come out of school

4:07

, you , you do , your a levels . You're 18

4:09

, you can get a credit card . What's an apr ? No one knows

4:11

. But now tiktok instagram's really changing

4:14

that . I think it's so important to highlight that they

4:16

can do that are you seeing it a lot when you go online . Yes

4:18

, yes , I am an avid tiktok

4:20

user . Um , I think it's so

4:22

useful , but my , but my TikTok looks very different from

4:24

a 12 year old's TikTok . Mine's like really

4:26

boring , you know cooking , all

4:28

that sort of side , but yeah it is . There's a lot of mortgage

4:31

rates , things like that , that you can learn snippets

4:33

and videos . It's so useful .

4:34

Yeah , fantastic . So just tell us a little bit about that

4:36

entry level point then . So you've come in no experience

4:39

. You've joined Foster De Novo , you've moved into

4:41

administration . Just

4:47

tell us about that first year then , because you're talking about eight promotions here in seven years

4:50

. Let's take the listeners on a journey and what it's been like to progress through the company , because

4:52

those listening are probably craving a company

4:54

where they can push

4:56

forward with their career . It sounds like this is a great place

4:58

to do it . So you started off administration .

5:00

Tell us about what you're doing yeah , so I started off

5:02

as our entry level , which is called a client

5:05

experience administrator , sorry , and

5:08

that's our entry level . So it's sort of doing

5:10

what we call the front end of the business , gathering

5:12

the information for clients , you know

5:14

, onboarding them into our systems , that sort

5:16

of back office role , liaising

5:19

with providers , that sort of side

5:21

. I ended up doing that , I think , for

5:23

six months before I was promoted into

5:25

our client experience executive , which

5:28

is a lot more client facing , a lot

5:30

more application

5:32

sides , a bit more technical knowledge . So as you sort

5:34

of go through , you build up your technical knowledge as you go

5:36

, which when I arrived I didn't have at

5:38

all .

5:38

Let me stop you there then . So , going from that entry-level

5:41

administrative position , did you feel

5:43

, based on your level of skills , experience

5:45

, knowledge , did you think it was a great

5:47

grounding for you ?

5:48

Yeah , definitely . It gave me all the basics

5:51

, so that really helped to sort

5:53

of get me in my set . I took the time to learn

5:55

. You know there was people around me that I could

5:57

look at and take that sort of level

5:59

of experience from , so that

6:01

was really invaluable .

6:03

And then you moved on up into the what was the next

6:05

role ?

6:06

it's client experience executive , so it's sort of

6:08

the one up for that . So we have sort of like a clear

6:10

track to run on in terms of our promotion and where

6:12

that goes okay , cool .

6:13

So just tell us a little bit about that position . Then . What's

6:15

, what's the difference then ? Why ? Why was that almost ? Why

6:17

was that a promotion or a natural ?

6:18

so you have a lot more client contact , which

6:20

obviously when you're new into the business it's quite

6:22

intimidating , especially as a millennial who doesn't answer

6:25

the phone . Um , so that was

6:27

a learning curve . So you know , getting to talk

6:29

to clients and doing that side of it

6:31

, you have a bit more technical knowledge , you're expected

6:33

to know a bit more , challenge the providers a bit

6:35

more push through and things like that .

6:37

So it's sort of that next level on so that administrative

6:39

role that you looked at for you pretty much looking at the documents

6:42

going through it , yeah , processing

6:44

really you know , processing it .

6:46

Now it's like a depth of knowledge that you're understanding

6:48

and then doing something with it . You're applying , applying

6:51

it .

6:51

Talk to me about those challenges in that next role

6:53

. Then the experience type position . What was

6:55

the challenges you came up against ? You mentioned you millennial

6:58

don't like picking up the phone yeah , not

7:00

my favorite .

7:01

Um . So yeah , talking to clients , but

7:04

actually it was really lovely . Like you sort of think

7:06

, oh my God , these people are paying for a service and there's

7:08

an expectation there to deliver . But

7:11

actually , you know , you form relationships

7:13

with them and I had people come to me , you

7:15

know , the next year ago . I spoke to that bloke last

7:17

year . Can you get me back

7:19

in touch ? I want to do this , this , this . It's like that

7:22

bloke you met three times . You actually only spoke to me on the

7:24

phone , okay , for six months , sort of once a

7:26

week , but you still build that

7:28

relationship with the client , so it

7:30

allows you to do that , which is actually really nice yeah

7:32

, it's a nice grounding , isn't it ?

7:33

it kind of makes the role more real and the job

7:35

that you're doing , instead of it just being processing

7:37

documents over and over again which , come on , it can be

7:39

quite boring , right yeah it gives you that ability

7:41

, then , to put a name , a face to a document

7:44

yeah , or to a life . You know the pension

7:46

transfer form that you might be processing

7:49

is actually impacting somebody's life , so it kind of brings

7:51

it to life then , doesn't it ? What about the product

7:53

providers ? Was that a difficult transition

7:55

? Did you put those types of people up on the pedestal

7:57

? Do you a bit sort of anxious about dealing

7:59

with them ?

8:00

yeah , definitely . I think when you come in and you

8:02

don't have the knowledge , you know I was using

8:05

words that I didn't really know

8:07

. They're on top of the piece of paper that was given in front of me

8:09

you know , if they I asked them a question they

8:11

push back . I was like , do I know how to answer that

8:13

? I'm not sure . But you , you start

8:15

to really learn that they're

8:18

almost the same as you you know , that

8:20

it's sort of an entry-level

8:22

position a lot of the time their side and you

8:24

know you can actually learn from each other at the same time

8:26

.

8:27

When I worked for Aviva

8:29

I can't remember how old I was , now my

8:31

20s , so

8:34

I was on the customer service side but we used to have

8:36

financial advisors call us up and I used to find

8:38

them really intimidating because they were like where's

8:40

my letter of authorities and everything .

8:41

They just wanted information , information .

8:49

Oh my God , I used to be . Where's my you know letter of authorities and everything .

8:50

They just want information , information . Oh my god , I be freaked out by , by , by the financial advisors .

8:51

You kind of put them on a pedestal , don't you ? Yeah , you do , you do and I move . I moved them

8:53

in when I moved then into recruitment and I started off doing like

8:55

um customer advisors in banks

8:57

or administrators and things like that . I would never

9:00

too , I didn't want to deal with a financial advisor because

9:02

I always felt that they you know again were on a bit

9:04

of a pedestal . It's quite interesting

9:06

though , isn't it ? And obviously now you work in an environment where you're surrounded

9:08

by financial planners . They're not what you think , right

9:10

.

9:11

No , no , they're definitely not , but

9:20

we never really had that because our financial advisors are so willing to give

9:22

you their time and share their experience . You know , at the end of the day day we're

9:24

all putting the client at the heart of what we do , so we're all trying to get to the same result . So

9:26

if you're better equipped to deal with that , then

9:28

it's going to help them and their client at the end of the day that

9:30

transition , then , from an admin then to the experience

9:33

role .

9:33

What do you think is essential to make sure you do make

9:35

that transition ? If someone's sat in an admin role right now

9:37

and they're wanting to kind of make sure that they're , you know

9:40

, progressing their career .

9:40

What's the what's ? the most important thing that they look at in respect

9:42

to their own skill set to start making that move

9:45

along into the next role it's definitely

9:47

you know a range of them time management's

9:49

massive one , you know everywhere you go but

9:51

it's taking the opportunity to learn what's

9:54

going on around you , observing which , post-covid

9:57

, can be quite difficult if you've got a hybrid model

9:59

or something like that , but it really

10:01

is learning from those around you . Hearing those conversations

10:03

, those difficult conversations , that you think , well , would

10:06

I be able to deal with that , how would I have dealt

10:08

with that ?

10:09

and just sort of using that to

10:11

better develop yourself did you

10:13

find that you were exposed to

10:15

learning and development very quickly

10:18

?

10:18

yeah , I think so . Um , I'm

10:21

quite an ambitious person anyway . Um

10:24

, like I said , when I was at Waitrose , I actually got offered

10:26

if I wanted to do the management course there , because

10:28

I love to learn , I think one of the things

10:30

I , when I left uni , I thought

10:32

, oh my God , I'm not going to learn anything anymore

10:35

, and that frightened the hell out of me . I

10:37

didn't realise there is so much more that you

10:39

can get from the industry that you're in .

10:43

When did you start thinking about qualifications

10:45

within financial planning ?

10:47

So when I went down the power planning

10:49

route was more when I moved

10:51

towards those . So I had no idea

10:53

what a power planner was . I mean , I think that's

10:55

one of the titles that you're like . What's that ? I mean you can't

10:57

even select it . If you've taken out car insurance

10:59

, it's not available half

11:02

the time .

11:03

I remember watching a video and someone went out with I think it was an Australian

11:05

video , and someone went out and said I should do it in the

11:07

UK , asking people what they thought a power planner

11:10

was , and some of the responses are so funny . No one had a

11:12

clue what a power planner was no one does . So

11:14

let's just take the listeners on a bit of a journey , because that client

11:17

experience role we started dealing with product providers started

11:20

to the clients . What was next after that role

11:22

?

11:22

So that was where I went down the power planning route

11:24

, and that's the thing is that there was more I

11:26

could have done in admin . You know we

11:32

have more roles that we go , we go seniors , we go to client relationship managers

11:34

and it develops on further there . But at that point I decided

11:36

that I was going to look down the power

11:38

planning route . That's really what I was interested

11:40

in my next step to be , because

11:42

I enjoyed the technical knowledge side

11:45

, but also the client side , because

11:47

I think that's a lot about para planners

11:49

is that everyone thinks it's just research

11:51

and report writing , when actually there is still a client

11:54

there and you know you're understanding their situations

11:56

and doing what's right for them . So I found

11:58

that really interesting .

12:00

I do like the fact that there's a vertical there for administration

12:02

. So if it's an area that you really enjoy

12:04

, there are still progressive steps that you can

12:06

move on up into . Yeah

12:09

definitely .

12:10

We have people that just want to do admin

12:12

. You know , that is what they want to do . But

12:14

there is so many levels to go there and

12:16

other ways you can go and we

12:18

have a lot of you know you can go into other

12:20

departments . It doesn't have to be you

12:22

know one track into

12:25

other departments . It doesn't have to be you know , one track . You go here , you do this . That's

12:27

not how we work . You know we have people that go across and do a side step and they go compliance

12:29

or they go to marketing or you know . So

12:31

there's a lot of opportunity to move across

12:33

the business and cross train okay , so that

12:35

client experience .

12:36

Then you then saw power planning as

12:38

the option . So the company supported

12:41

you in your move then to move into

12:43

power planning Now from the outside

12:45

looking into power planning ? How did you understand what

12:48

the role was before you made that move

12:50

and made sure it was the right move for you ?

12:51

So in my administration role in

12:53

the client experience executive , we were quite involved

12:56

with the power planners . We'd gather

12:58

the information for them to be able to write the report . So

13:00

we have quite close connection with them because

13:02

they are in-house . So you'd be dealing

13:05

with them , you know , on a daily basis

13:07

, really discussing cases

13:09

, making sure you've got the right information for them . And

13:11

that's when I sort of sparked and was like oh , how do

13:13

you know ? How do you know you need this information

13:15

, because I don't know that yet , and sort of

13:17

took it from there . Um , yeah

13:20

, we had a team of power planners up in London . I thought

13:22

it looks quite good , I'll give

13:24

that a go .

13:24

Were you invited over into the power planning team

13:27

to sort of observe it and get stuck in and understand

13:29

different things of what they're doing yeah , it's

13:31

definitely not separate .

13:32

It's obviously a separate team , but we would come together

13:34

quite a lot because it helps

13:37

, it moves the cases on a lot quicker when

13:39

you have those open conversations

13:41

, not just a you know an email flying around

13:43

and things like you know , we would go there

13:45

and we would sit with them . I've got this case . You know this client

13:48

, what do you need , what can I do , how can I

13:50

help you ? And that was sort of how we went

13:52

from there .

13:53

Do you think you could have started the qualification so

13:55

? Is that the point where you started doing qualifications

13:57

?

13:57

Yes , so I started qualifications going straight

13:59

into the level four . But

14:08

there is a level three which you can do . There's sort of lots of different routes , there's

14:10

different bodies and things like that . So we looked at the cii . That's how I went across that . So we

14:12

have people that actually do the level three first because it gives you more of a foundation

14:14

level before you move on to the level

14:17

four . But , um , I found

14:19

that just with the knowledge I sort

14:21

of gathered on the job that I was comfortable

14:23

to go into the level four and knew I was ready to go

14:25

there that's really interesting .

14:26

So you know , like a qualification

14:28

often doesn't teach us actually what the job does . I

14:31

mean that what that massively happens

14:33

in financial planning . You know like people become

14:35

level four qualified .

14:36

It doesn't teach you how to be a financial planner sitting

14:38

in front of people having the skill set yeah

14:40

, it definitely can feel like a bit of a box tick

14:42

. I mean you know it's a multiple choice question

14:44

not saying it's not hard because it is um , it

14:46

definitely is um but it's multiple choice questions

14:49

but it's the real world applications that

14:51

you don't get from that and that's when

14:53

we probably talk about a bit later . When I moved

14:55

into management and I was hiring people , I

14:57

was looking for people who had something about

15:00

them , who had done the job for a while

15:02

, had gone through the different roles

15:05

and had that experience .

15:06

I think that's really invaluable okay , let's

15:09

go back to this power planner role then . So , because I'm

15:11

the firm believer that we label power planning

15:13

or power planners um chuck

15:16

everybody under one name and that's it

15:18

um ? Are there layers

15:20

? Are there levels ?

15:21

we love a layer . We've

15:23

got all the cake layers going on here . So

15:26

our first layer , our entry level . There

15:28

is a trainee parapanner , so that's someone

15:30

who's probably just starting off on their exam journey

15:32

, doesn't have any you know , starts

15:34

to do a lot of the research side , maybe

15:37

some basic reports , sort of bed

15:39

and ices , that entry level sort of reporting

15:41

so they learn that , and it's

15:43

mainly assisting the other

15:45

power planners in their research and that side

15:47

and gaining experience there for those who don't know

15:50

then at that level of trainee .

15:51

So I love that you know you're getting involved in , like some

15:53

of the isis , some of the work you're supporting the power

15:55

planners , so they're kind of coaching you as

15:58

you're doing some of those tasks

16:00

that they aren't able to do or

16:02

don't have perhaps the time to do . So they pass smaller

16:05

tasks to you , more manageable tasks

16:07

based on your level of experience , and kind of drip

16:09

feed you stuff yeah , definitely

16:11

, but also to

16:14

to train you at the same time .

16:15

It's like sometimes , if you know they were

16:18

doing something on a case and they were like , actually

16:20

you know this , this is great , come on , have a

16:22

look at this , you know . And then suddenly

16:24

you're taking over that section for everyone else because

16:26

they've just taken the time to show you how to do it

16:28

, and there's quite a lot of that happens each

16:30

time you got the promotion , that's three right .

16:32

Each time you got one , did you feel good ?

16:34

yeah yeah , you felt like you were progressing yeah

16:36

, I love a title change nothing

16:38

better than when you come in and you change

16:40

your signature and your job title

16:42

and you get to change it . I love that there's

16:45

an element of prestige there .

16:47

Isn't there that humans look for you ? Know it's

16:49

that maybe it is that feeling

16:51

of like tribal where are we in the tribe

16:53

and how are we seen by others

16:55

? Yeah , I think a title can

16:57

be very important to people and I think , again

16:59

, bringing these different titles into

17:02

career frameworks does motivate

17:04

people that are driven by the element

17:06

of prestige , the title , and

17:08

I think it's nothing wrong with that . I think it's great because

17:10

it also indicates and shows somebody

17:12

. It's almost like a , a badge , isn't it

17:14

?

17:14

it's like it's progression , isn't it ? It's progression

17:17

. The great gatsby he always says I've got to

17:19

go like this , I've got to keep going up yeah that's

17:21

what it is . You know we have that . A lot of us have

17:23

that drive . That means we want

17:25

to go up yeah , it doesn't necessarily mean

17:27

I want to be here tomorrow and earning

17:29

50 grand more . It's I've

17:31

got to keep moving forward . It's a journey

17:34

isn't it ?

17:34

you know you've got to break that journey down into bite-sized

17:37

, manageable chunks , and I think breaking

17:39

down roles in a career framework is an

17:41

important way of doing . That . Keeps you motivated . You

17:43

get those rewards um your

17:46

career framework . Then was it clearly

17:48

defining competencies that you needed to

17:50

hit things you needed to do

17:52

to be able to evidence that you're

17:54

ready for the next stage yeah .

17:56

So we have what we call personal development plans

17:58

, love a little acronym , so it's a pdp

18:00

, um , and what you do is

18:02

you have sort of set that out . So in

18:04

three months time , where do I see myself in six months

18:06

, in a year , in five years ? And you break it

18:08

down and then you also look at the

18:10

job description for the next role and go , okay

18:13

, so what do I not have ? You know

18:15

on our job descriptions , whether a essential

18:18

side and a desired side , you

18:20

know would be nice if you had these , you know

18:22

, but the essential side . You're looking down and going , okay , where am

18:24

I missing on the side ? Well , actually , I might , I might have

18:26

that already , you know , and how can I get there ?

18:29

so it is really a clear track

18:31

to run on that you can pick those elements

18:33

out did you ever feel like

18:35

you were held back , or were you

18:37

able to evidence those

18:40

competencies , to be able to say look , I

18:42

am achieving these things , I am hitting these

18:44

things . Um , can I be considered

18:46

for ? Um ?

18:47

a promotion yeah , I never felt held

18:49

back . I always felt like there

18:51

was always someone there to fight my

18:54

corner as well as I could . Um

18:56

, but it's also about , you know , fighting

18:58

your own corner . No one's going to back you more

19:00

than you . So you know , I had

19:02

a little folder for things . When someone sent me feedback boom , that's

19:04

in there , I'll be using . So you know , I had a little folder for things when someone sent me feedback boom , it's in there , I'll be using

19:07

that you know , and it's using all those things

19:09

you know . I'd evidence it , I'd have a spreadsheet

19:11

with things that I'd completed and checked

19:13

off . So if you go in with the evidence , it

19:16

can't be disputed did that motivate you as well

19:18

? Personally , yeah , definitely yeah definitely

19:20

and again , it's part of that journey that's again

19:22

compartmentalizing it . Seeing that next step

19:25

, you know ticking something off . It's gone green on a spreadsheet

19:27

. Satisfying might be the power planner in me , but no

19:30

, I love it , it's great . So you started off in power

19:32

plan trainee , power planner , and then you

19:34

moved on into so a junior power

19:37

planner is our next one up so that's when you've got a few

19:39

more exams under your belt , you start writing

19:41

a few more reports , start to move

19:43

into the transfer , maybe sort of investment

19:45

transfer rather than pension transfer .

19:48

So it's just that another level of experience

19:50

was there a longer gap between

19:53

those two roles ?

19:54

no , those ones are pretty quick . Yeah

19:56

, pretty quick , was it ?

19:57

because you've obviously got to achieve your qualifications

20:00

. Did having to achieve

20:02

qualifications a certain amount of

20:04

how many qualifications did you have to achieve ?

20:06

so it's six . Um , I

20:08

managed to do three in six months , which was to

20:10

get to the junior , which was um a

20:12

lot , doing one every other month , um

20:15

, but no

20:17

, I was motivated to do it . I was also given

20:19

the time to do it , you know to

20:22

, to study . You know if , maybe , if

20:24

there wasn't something in , I could take that time to study

20:26

, if we just had a bit of a lull , or someone

20:28

would go oh , go , sit with so-and-so

20:30

, they've just had a look at you know , something

20:33

they hear that could really help you and you can apply it

20:35

to your exam .

20:36

So that really helped , as well , you did three

20:38

in six months , did you ? Yeah

20:40

, were they tough .

20:41

They are tough , yeah , yeah , they are tough , and

20:43

you do have to dedicate yourself to them . There's lots

20:45

of resources , though . Just

20:48

in terms of the governing bodies , they

20:50

offer a lot of resources , but , yeah

20:52

, it is tough , you do have to apply yourself to it

20:54

, but I do think doing it on the job helps

20:57

. I don't think I could have sat those

20:59

as an administrator , because I just wouldn't have

21:01

had that level of technical knowledge it's

21:03

really interesting , isn't ?

21:04

it's lots of people um look at the role of financial

21:06

planner and put it on quite a pedestal and

21:09

they work towards their level four qualifications

21:11

, uh before even entering into

21:13

the financial planning profession um

21:15

I mean , you know , look at the end of the day their qualifications

21:18

. Great to get them under your belt , be lovely

21:20

to see them in more universities , for example

21:22

yeah you know , or at least you know , more

21:25

of the degree qualification towards their points

21:27

when it comes to yeah level four qualified

21:29

um , it's definitely worth getting

21:31

them under your belt , because if your end goal is to be

21:33

a financial planner or a power planner . It's good to get these qualifications

21:36

, but in

21:38

your experience , doing

21:40

it on the job against

21:42

the thought of doing it in your bedroom without any experience

21:45

what what's your thoughts on that ?

21:46

I think it's possible , I think it's harder . I

21:49

definitely think that when you're doing it and seeing

21:51

it , you know you're putting it into practice

21:53

. That allows it to go in . You

21:56

know , when you're sitting there just scrolling through multiple

21:58

choice questions , like something for your theory test , isn't

22:00

it ? You know , you do your theory test

22:02

alongside doing your practical test , and

22:04

that's what I think works best with the exams , personally

22:07

for me .

22:07

I know everyone's not like that , but that's what I definitely

22:09

found so how many

22:11

years are you in now as in at

22:14

this role ? On your journey that we're talking about , so

22:16

you'd have been how many years into your career at foster

22:18

de novo .

22:19

I think I

23:06

would be at junior power planner

23:08

probably two years in . So two years , two and a

23:10

half years , yeah , so from waitress to junior

23:12

power planner in two years .

23:14

Qualifications under your belt .

23:16

Yep Levels of experience .

23:18

Junior power planner . Tell me a little bit about

23:21

that Around , sort of the difference

23:23

between junior power planner and trainee .

23:25

So it's just a bit more complex reporting

23:27

side . So you'd get a bit more involved in

23:29

writing your own reports now probably not doing

23:31

as much research for other people because

23:34

you're starting to write them . Not complex

23:36

, you know . Your pension transfers that are a bit more

23:38

complex , require a bit more research , a bit more compliance

23:40

base , but still

23:42

writing a lot more of

23:44

those .

23:45

Fantastic . How many people were you supporting in

23:47

that situation ? Were you supporting power planners

23:50

? Were you supporting financial planners

23:52

? Was it both ?

23:53

It's both , so I

23:55

worked in a team . We call them that sort of a pod

23:57

, so it's a pod of advisors who have their

23:59

own client banks , and I was supporting three

24:01

advisors at that time , which

24:03

was quite nice .

24:04

It's interesting , isn't it ? Because in that role , not only are you

24:06

looking after the clients , you're also looking

24:08

after the partners , so for you , you've got two stakeholders

24:11

, almost .

24:11

Yeah , yeah that's what it is At Foster de Novo

24:14

. You know you've got two sets of clients . You've got the

24:16

client who is paying for a service , and also

24:18

the partner or advisors who are also

24:20

paying for a service . So it's a

24:22

balancing act . You're trying to balance it all , which is also

24:24

a great skill to have as well , is also a great skill to

24:27

have as well .

24:28

At that point , were you starting to build relationships with those financial planners

24:30

? Were you starting to get sort of understand what they do , how

24:32

they do it , the nuances of advice , the

24:34

winning the client , how important the relationship was ?

24:37

Yeah , massively . You know just putting

24:39

that . You know it's not a piece

24:41

of paper anymore , this is a real life client at

24:43

the heart of it . And I did have

24:45

one advisor who would take me along some of his meetings

24:48

just so I could sort of get a clearer picture

24:50

when I was writing a report . And it it

24:52

really does bring it to life when you've got a client

24:54

who's sitting in front of you explaining their situation

24:56

and they've worked 40 years and now

24:59

they're ready to get out , how do they do that

25:01

? you know , it really puts that into perspective

25:03

yeah , it's interesting , that isn't it ?

25:04

because you look at the outsourced power planners and

25:07

you can imagine that we're working with multiple different clients

25:09

and they're not a multi-different clients . Are there to be multi different

25:11

financial planning firms , I guess , like

25:13

I wonder if in an outsourced power planning role

25:15

, that's not to poo-poo it , because it's a fantastic service

25:18

and there's some great companies out there , I've had them on the podcast

25:20

. Brilliant stuff but , it does

25:22

kind of perhaps remove you maybe

25:24

from the process , unless it's like

25:27

video based and you're jumping on calls

25:29

on video based side of it to be client facing

25:31

. I don't know . Do you feel

25:33

that by sitting in front of the client at that stage

25:35

that you started to develop the

25:38

understanding of the client but

25:40

also the personality

25:43

of the advisor to be able to match ? Yeah

25:46

, definitely .

25:47

You know you have some advisors who are

25:49

very particular and want things done in a certain way

25:51

and you almost can't understand why

25:53

that is the case . But then when you're sat in front

25:55

of a client , it gives you so much respect

25:58

for what they do . I mean , I sat in one meeting

26:00

that I was sweating throughout . It

26:02

was one of those uncomfortable ones , but the

26:04

financial planner was amazing , you

26:10

know , and just took it all in a stride . You know , could answer then and there , and

26:12

I was sat there the whole time like oh my god , thank god that's not me , um , and

26:14

that's always been my sort of input , but it was

26:16

amazing to see and it gives you a level of respect

26:18

for what they do . You know , you

26:20

can some people think it's just the sales rather out there

26:22

and they're selling . Well , not really . You know

26:24

that client relationship is so important

26:26

. So great .

26:28

So it gave you a kind of level of respect for what they

26:30

actually do . Do you sometimes feel

26:32

pressure from financial

26:34

planners ? How do you manage

26:36

the expectation of financial planners ? Do you feel

26:38

you have to do that ?

26:40

Well , we have sort of you know , in a

26:42

more junior level . You're not expected to do that

26:44

because we have our team leaders , we have our managers

26:46

who do a bit more of that , but I still think

26:48

it's a really important skill to learn . So the

26:51

quicker you start doing it , you know , the

26:53

easier it is . But it starts as well . You

26:55

know , if you manage the financial planners

26:57

expectations , that's not enough . Like we said , we've got

26:59

two clients . You need the financial planner to manage

27:02

the client's expectation and that's where

27:04

it is is that it needs to make sure it translates

27:06

through the process .

27:07

I think the junior exposure

27:10

to being in meetings

27:12

is valuable . It's huge , you

27:14

know , and I think the earlier you can get a power

27:16

planner into a client meeting

27:18

or an administrator , the better because they're

27:20

going to get a feel for the full journey , aren't

27:22

they ? They understand it in more detail and you

27:24

found respect , as you put it , to what they have to do

27:27

and how they do it and how you approach

27:29

the work that you do , very

27:31

, very important . There's this kind of what

27:35

I call the mushroom feed them shit and keep them in the dark

27:37

mentality which often happens

27:39

in things like administration You're

27:42

over here and we're over here . You're

27:44

the power planner , you're the administrator and we're the financial

27:46

planner , and we'll keep it that way .

27:47

it's just like we don't like to stay in a lane no

27:50

we like to blur them over . You

27:52

know everyone can help everyone

27:54

. You know the paraplanner has skill sets that the

27:56

the financial planner doesn't have . You

27:59

know , like you said , some of them have gone through

28:01

the roles and they have that

28:03

level of experience , but some of them haven't . You know

28:05

they've taken their exams , they've a financial

28:07

planner .

28:08

Yes .

28:08

You know , they don't know the back office system or

28:11

they don't have that extra level of technical knowledge

28:13

of a defined benefit arrangement that they

28:15

might not come across very often , and that's

28:17

the thing , it's exposure , and it's what you see . So

28:20

that's really important , so that's why I feel like it works hand

28:22

in hand . So

28:35

you're in that you start getting exposed to the client meeting , seeing the financial planners doing

28:37

what they're doing , you must be pumped . Next step financial planner client facing absolutely not , no

28:39

, definitely not right . That wasn't for me . Um , I was very much in the power planning role . I really saw

28:41

the value in that and felt like that

28:43

was my part to play and that that's

28:45

where I wanted to stay . I also enjoyed

28:47

the compliance side , which you get a bit more on the

28:49

power planning element . So I

28:52

really enjoyed that . So , no , it

28:54

was definitely power planning all the way

28:56

for me .

28:57

So more interested in the technical side

28:59

, more interested in what the problem solving

29:01

side than the

29:03

what was it about the client facing

29:06

side that put you off the most , then

29:08

?

29:09

I think again . I think it goes

29:11

back to my millennial needs of

29:13

not wanting to . You know , it's

29:15

the I knew . You knew , with power planning

29:17

, what you were getting as the unexpected when you're sat

29:19

in front of a client and what they could throw out . I found that

29:21

quite worrying right um

29:24

, but I think as well , like I

29:26

felt like I was getting that client relationship

29:28

side from assisting the financial

29:30

planner , that I almost didn't have that need

29:32

to fill it by sitting in front of my

29:35

own client and problem solving .

29:37

I like the idea as well . It's like a control

29:39

thing , isn't it ? You don't know what questions they're going to

29:41

ask you and how they're going to ask

29:43

you , and if you answer it the right way

29:45

or the wrong way . You answer it the right way or the wrong

29:47

way , I suppose , when you're sitting there and you've got a rule

29:49

book and you kind of heard it over and over

29:52

again . you're kind of picking out all these different things

29:54

and going yeah , that's right , that's right , that's

29:56

right , or that's wrong , that's wrong , or

29:58

I think about it that way or I'll explain it this way

30:00

. So you are reflecting

30:04

more , aren't you ? So

30:09

it's observation , observation , it's reflecting and then trying to articulate it in

30:11

a way that that person then , when they receive , it is the best fact find , or you

30:14

know , the best report back . So that person goes yeah

30:16

, great , yeah , person really really got me yeah , that's

30:18

valuable , right , because not a ? lot of planners

30:20

, not a lot of financial advisors , enjoy administration

30:23

, like some of them might find it really really hard

30:25

, like the thought , the thought for me of having

30:27

to write an email , sometimes like , oh my , I'd

30:29

rather pick up the phone and have a conversation with somebody yeah

30:31

, that's just who I am .

30:32

Yeah , but for somebody like yourself .

30:34

It's like no , I , I , I would prefer to

30:36

be the person who gets it technically right , understand

30:38

all the technicalities of it , and have that as my skill

30:40

set and my value . I like that . So you kind

30:43

of very quickly established that clash . You

30:45

, though , have you ruled it out completely ?

30:47

yeah , I have .

30:48

I have now , you have yeah .

30:49

Yeah , I definitely have . Now I don't

30:51

. It's definitely not for me , but

30:55

I think you know , is you almost

30:57

think , when you come into the business , that okay

31:00

, I'll do admin , yes , I'll do

31:02

the power planning side and okay , I'll need

31:04

to be a financial planner . But

31:06

I don't feel like that because there's so many other places

31:08

to go , fantastic all right

31:10

, so junior power planner role .

31:12

How long were you in that position for ?

31:13

oh , I think six

31:15

months I was in that one um

31:18

and I was promoted to a power planner , um

31:20

, and I wasn't in that one very long because

31:23

, uh , yeah , I sort of

31:25

moved to doing my own stuff I was supporting

31:27

. I was actually the sole power planner for those three

31:29

people that I'd supported originally , right . And

31:32

then COVID hit .

31:34

Right .

31:35

And we needed someone

31:38

to step up and manage the team . So

31:40

I fell into a team leader role

31:42

after that point because

31:45

you know , we were

31:47

amazing at getting into working

31:49

from home . Our it team are ridiculous

31:52

. You know , it was all sorted . We packed

31:54

up one day and we're like , okay , you

31:56

know , take a few files , get things scanned

31:58

in . We stayed a bit later it was like , yeah , that'll be fine

32:00

, see , we'll be back in like a couple of weeks

32:02

, and that that wasn't the case . You know

32:05

we had to learn to adapt to working

32:07

fully from the office now to working fully remote

32:10

. So that was quite a lot . So

32:13

I took on managing the team

32:15

to keep us all together and make sure we were all

32:17

communicating to keep everything

32:20

flowing , the business going through .

32:21

So power planner manager .

32:23

So it was a team leader role , but

32:25

I was actually managing power planners and

32:27

administrators at the time role

32:31

, but I was actually managing power planners and administrators at the time .

32:33

Again , you know the opportunities to progress based on skill set . You were offered

32:35

a role at waitrose as

32:37

a manager right , and did you always

32:39

have it in the back of your mind that management was the route

32:41

for you as well ?

32:43

no , no , no , okay , you know

32:45

, I've never really thought about where I wanted

32:47

to go , or had that mapped

32:50

out .

32:51

Okay , so how was

32:53

it identified that

32:55

you would make a good manager ?

32:57

I think , just because I had

32:59

done both those roles as well , I think

33:02

that really helps is that I had the

33:04

on-job experience of understanding

33:06

that I'm really keen

33:08

to develop people . So as I move through

33:10

being developed by others , I was keen

33:12

to develop those below me

33:14

and make sure that they moved on as well , which is

33:17

is very important in a manager , I

33:19

think . So , yeah , I think

33:21

that's what was sort of identified when

33:24

you're in that manager role .

33:26

What ? What

33:29

was the toughest part of being a manager ?

33:30

because I've I've .

33:32

I've been a manager and I didn't

33:34

really enjoy it . I struggle with managing

33:37

people , you know . I struggle to manage myself

33:39

, uh , but managing others

33:41

I found really difficult . Did

33:44

you find it difficult or did you find it really

33:47

interesting ? You know , what was your take on

33:49

being a manager ? Was

33:51

it a baptism of fire ?

33:53

It was because it was COVID and

33:56

you know it was like not only just learning

33:58

how to be a manager , you're learning how to do that with the

34:00

rest of us who have managed for 30 years

34:02

online and how you would

34:04

do that . So that was definitely a challenge

34:06

but I loved it

34:08

. You

34:11

know I'd gone from saying I wasn't really a people person . I didn't really want

34:13

to do that side the client side and all of that to actually

34:16

I really like this side and you

34:18

know everyone can work together

34:20

and recognize people's strengths , to

34:22

come together to get the job done in the best way so

34:25

from admin to manager .

34:27

How many years was that ? I think that

34:29

was four years

34:31

, three , three years , Three years

34:33

Again , you know a really quick

34:35

career progression into manager

34:38

, going through your qualifications , power

34:40

planning experience , into managing a

34:42

team . I mean that's pretty , pretty impressive

34:45

. Any mentorship along the way ?

34:47

Yeah , I definitely had them at sort

34:49

of every step . So , like I said , I had

34:51

a few advisors who really helped me , you know

34:53

, took me to client meetings as a junior , things

34:55

like that . Um , I

34:57

also had one lady who was absolutely amazing

35:00

when I first started out , who taught

35:02

me everything I knew you know , she was

35:04

at the other end of her career . She sort of had her

35:06

career and was taking this job to

35:08

sort of go towards , you know , partial

35:10

retirement , slowing down that sort of side

35:12

of things . And she was

35:15

, you know , my strength and stay , as

35:18

your majesty would say , but she just was

35:20

. You know , she was calm , collected

35:23

every time you had that difficult conversation

35:25

. You know that's what I was listening to , that's

35:27

the person I was listening to in the office . You know what

35:29

, how's she gonna deal with this ? What's she gonna say ? And

35:32

she was unbelievable and I

35:34

really respected her for that that's beautiful .

35:37

So those observations that you , where

35:39

you've been mentored really

35:41

well , you've learned from

35:43

that mentor yeah , do you ? Do you find

35:45

that you now mentor others in the same way ?

35:48

I try to to . Definitely , because it

35:50

was I think it's the biggest part of my journey

35:52

. Without these people who gave up

35:55

their time to show

35:57

me how to do it , I

35:59

wouldn't be where I am at all . You

36:02

know the technical side , the technical knowledge

36:04

. The advisors that took me to a meeting and

36:06

explained who I was as I sat there with clients

36:08

know giving up their personal information . You

36:11

know you have to ask permission for that . There's a lot

36:13

of people that really helped me to do that

36:15

.

36:16

I think what's really important is when somebody gives you time

36:18

and mentors you , and this is

36:20

you have to give that

36:23

back . It's very difficult to not give

36:25

it back to somebody else when someone's

36:27

giving you so much time , and I think

36:29

that is the circle of development

36:31

, because you get mentored

36:33

, you learn , you mentor someone else , you

36:35

learn again because how you ? Deliver .

36:38

Uh , training how you deliver coaching

36:40

is so different to taking it

36:42

yeah definitely , and if you want

36:44

to move on , I need someone to do what I'm

36:46

doing . Yeah you know , and that's , that's a

36:49

lot how we work as well . It's like

36:51

I'll show you , because then you can come in and

36:53

do what I need you to do , so I can go on

36:55

. You know , it's also that side , so it's

36:57

really rewarding for that , the other person , and

37:00

it means that you get to progress as well . So it's

37:02

really valuable to do it that way so

37:04

, covid hit , manage a .

37:05

So COVID hit , manage your role . Then

37:08

what happened ?

37:09

So then we grew

37:11

as a team . Covid

37:13

didn't slow us down . We expanded

37:15

, we ended up with

37:18

a lot more clients . We were really busy

37:20

hitting targets , which was amazing , didn't

37:22

have time to think about what was going on , which

37:25

was really nice . So we had that sense of a team , so we really

37:27

grew . So I , you know , we had that sense of a team , so we

37:29

really grew . So I was hiring people

37:31

to take on because at the

37:34

start I was still doing the power planning as well as a team

37:36

leader role which was quite difficult

37:38

to do . A hybrid role . That can be quite difficult to

37:40

make sure you're spreading your time in the correct way , especially

37:42

when there's other people who are relying on you for

37:44

that leadership . So , yeah , we grew

37:46

the team and moved

37:48

on and we sort of established a mini

37:51

practice is what we called between

37:53

the advisors and supporting them with their

37:55

clients .

37:56

I hope you were financially rewarded each of

37:58

these steps . Yes , yeah

38:01

, right good .

38:02

Yes , but my question always first was what's

38:04

my new title ? What's my new title ?

38:06

Oh wow , you were motivated by the title more

38:09

.

38:09

Yeah .

38:10

Okay , that's really interesting .

38:11

Yeah , so title two is massively important .

38:13

So I am I going to see you as a ceo

38:15

or cfo or coo

38:17

hopefully one day .

38:19

Yeah , that motivates you .

38:20

Yeah , definitely oh , I absolutely love that fantastic

38:22

. Well , that's really good to hear . So let's just talk about building

38:25

a team . Right , you're a manager . You've now

38:27

built a mini department , as you put it right , servicing

38:29

team what are you looking ? For when it

38:31

comes to hiring people into your team

38:33

. What type of things are you looking for ? If you're looking at a

38:35

power planner administrator ? Uh

38:37

, or maybe regardless of the job title yeah

38:39

, what are the things you're looking for from that person

38:42

regardless .

38:43

I'm looking for someone with something

38:45

about them right , a bit of desire

38:47

, a bit of you know . They

38:49

might not have the qualifications

38:51

or they might not have 20

38:54

years of experience , but they're

38:56

hungry and they want to learn and

38:59

they want to take that time . That is what I'm looking

39:01

for when I hire people .

39:03

So you're looking for attitude mindset .

39:05

Yeah , massively because the process

39:07

side , the technical knowledge , that

39:09

that can be taught . You know , we've

39:12

, we can see that . You know in the exams that

39:14

that's taught . But the right attitude

39:16

cannot be you

39:19

know , the attention to detail .

39:21

That's something that's in someone and

39:23

that's what you're looking to identify I

39:25

worry that there might be a lot of pressure on people

39:27

to progress like you is

39:43

that the case here at Foster and she stayed

39:45

there .

39:46

And we've got other people who just said you

39:48

know what that paraplegic terrifies me . I don't want

39:50

to deal with compliance , I don't want to know any of that , I just

39:52

want to be really good administrator

39:55

, and there's those levels to do that as

39:57

well . But there's also . You don't have

39:59

to stay there , you can still take elements

40:02

from different parts that you're good at . We're really good

40:04

at identifying what is

40:06

someone's strength and how do we use that

40:08

.

40:09

Do you then those types of people ? I love the rock

40:11

star superstar analogy , like you know there

40:13

are superstars that you're a bit of a superstar . Someone

40:16

keeps wanting to move forward . And you're a superstar . You're

40:18

rock stars . You're solid rocks that are there and they're

40:20

there . And that's cool as well . You know , maybe they don't

40:22

want to progress , they just want to be recognized

40:25

and rewarded

40:27

for the work that they do in that role

40:29

. You know they're not seeking promotion or anything

40:31

along those lines . And there's space . You need superstars

40:34

and you need rock stars .

40:34

Yeah , it's a balance . You need

40:36

that . Otherwise , if you've got superstars , there's

40:39

no one there carrying the core and training those

40:41

people up , like we've said , and you need them in your

40:43

team , don't you ?

40:44

You need those people in your team .

40:45

Definitely people in your team . Definitely they're really valuable . So you

40:48

know you need balance . It is a balancing act

40:50

to identify what about things like qualifications

40:52

, though ?

40:52

do you find it hard to get the team to actually take

40:55

time out to spend time on their qualifications

40:57

? Um , you know , is it getting

40:59

them to be qualified ? Is that , is

41:02

it taking longer ? Now ? Are

41:04

people , uh , more

41:06

busy in their personal lives , or ?

41:08

yeah , I think obviously during covid people could

41:10

take a bit more opportunity to do that

41:12

. There was less to do , so that

41:14

that definitely helped . But I think you

41:17

know , with the right mentorship

41:20

from the right place , you know people

41:22

are keen and eager to do it and it's compartmentalizing

41:25

it . It's the next exam . Just

41:27

look at that one . Don't look at being qualified . Look

41:29

at the next one . Don't look at how many you've got left to do . Just

41:31

put that down and and work

41:33

towards it . How do we get you there ? What can we do to help

41:35

?

41:36

okay , so your journey doesn't stop there , then right you've

41:39

got into the position , yeah

41:42

, so when we established the practice

41:44

.

41:44

I became a junior practice manager because I had

41:46

no experience in the practice manager side , which

41:48

is a bit more sort of MI

41:51

focused . You know you have a lot of client data

41:53

, you're looking at the turnover , you're looking

41:55

at the more business side of

41:58

that , which was really interesting

42:00

, something I definitely hadn't done before . Again

42:03

had to lean on a lot of people to understand what

42:05

that meant my managers , but also other

42:07

people managing practice . You know

42:09

we'd come together and sort of discuss that

42:11

and get that across . So I started off

42:13

in in the junior role with not much experience

42:16

that level and then moved to a practice manager

42:18

once I'd got that experience level , got that under

42:20

my belt and was there very

42:22

interesting because people listening to this be like hang on

42:24

practice , like it's foster de

42:27

novo .

42:27

That is the practice . So underneath

42:30

foster de novo are

42:32

like little mini practices , almost yeah , yeah yeah

42:34

.

42:34

So we have sort of advisors that can sort of come

42:37

together and set up a practice so they

42:39

have shared administration support

42:41

, whether that's from the administrators themselves

42:43

or para planners you know , and they

42:46

put those little practices together . We call them pods

42:48

, but practice sounds a little bit nicer , pods a

42:50

little bit um . So that's what we

42:52

established and it just helps

42:54

to . You know , keep

42:57

it tight , keep it together . You know we really

42:59

learn about our clients . You know we knew

43:01

the 300 400 clients

43:03

we're servicing at that time , because

43:05

you get to know them , because you're dealing with them all the time

43:07

. Rather than a central model , that's what we really move

43:09

towards you've constantly been evolving .

43:12

Do you ever kind of feel like you've evolved too quickly

43:14

and you miss doing a specific aspect

43:16

of the job all the time ?

43:19

no , no , no , I don't

43:21

. I don't because it's

43:24

always the next element

43:26

that I'm always really interested in and I've

43:28

been able to not dictate that

43:30

. But if there's a business need and

43:33

I set where I want to go , you

43:35

know I can go , I want that bit and I can

43:38

. I can say well , you know what ? Actually I

43:40

think I need a bit more experience here . I need

43:42

to stay here , do this a bit more and then I can move

43:44

on . So you know , it's been quite

43:46

flexible in that sense is that I could drive

43:48

the pace of it and I've been able to do that give

43:51

us a bit more insight into the practice manager responsibility .

43:53

So if someone's like sitting in a power planner role now

43:55

and they're thinking like I actually wouldn't mind

43:57

being operational , I wouldn't mind understanding

43:59

how the business runs and become

44:02

a practice manager like you know , that's a great progressive

44:04

step . If someone's in a power planner role they want to do something different

44:06

, then maybe they could do that . I think those types

44:08

of roles are going to open up more and more as well yeah

44:11

, um just just just like the stark

44:13

differences really and the things that

44:15

you kind of all of a sudden you thought weren't

44:18

that maybe didn't think took that much

44:20

time and actually turned out that they were massively

44:23

important and big learning curves for you yeah

44:25

, I mean it's like that role we said about

44:27

um , with the

44:29

managing expectations on

44:31

the client manager side .

44:33

You know , practice manager side , you're doing that quite a lot

44:35

. You're managing the expectations . You know you're

44:37

picking up the phone to that disgruntled client and having

44:39

those conversations I was terrified of having it a

44:41

few years ago . You

44:44

know I'm having those conversations with partners and

44:46

being that sounding board for the team

44:49

making sure we're all working together

44:51

. You know tasking in sort of looking at cases

44:53

, making sure we've got enough detail that we

44:55

are in the right place and moving forward

44:58

, and you know what our figures look like

45:00

. Have we hit everything we need to have

45:02

compliance , got any outstanding requirements ? Have

45:04

we moved everything forward that we needed to there

45:06

?

45:08

moved everything forward that we needed to there , so you're starting to build deeper relationships

45:11

with key stakeholders within the business as a whole , your understanding of the

45:13

different areas of the business and how it , then

45:15

how it all goes into the practice

45:17

itself . Things like performance

45:19

reviews , having to manage people , having

45:22

uncomfortable conversations with these things

45:24

that now you were having to do in there

45:26

were your responsibility as well yes , yes

45:28

, they were . So somebody

45:30

who perhaps doesn't like being

45:33

face to face with people

45:35

as much in say a

45:37

, I don't know , like there's a client meeting

45:40

and then there's performance reviews

45:42

.

45:42

Yeah , definitely I think from the

45:44

performance review side is

45:46

that I'd been on the other

45:48

foot and I knew how

45:50

they feel when they're not so great , yeah . But

45:53

also I knew what they did for me , yeah

45:55

, and I knew that they got me to where I needed

45:57

to be , and sometimes it is having

45:59

those difficult conversations with people so

46:02

they better themselves . You know

46:04

that's the outcome you want , right ? Is that

46:06

someone turns around and goes oh , you know what actually

46:08

? yeah , I do need to work on that

46:10

, and I think I'd found that when

46:12

I was a bit younger , quite

46:15

difficult to identify those in myself you know , what do I need

46:17

to do ? I don't need to do that . You

46:19

know , it could be quite hard to hear feedback

46:21

you know I had one advisor who gave me feedback

46:24

constantly and sometimes I didn't want to hear

46:26

it , but it made me who

46:28

I am by , you know , actually

46:30

sitting back and taking it on board and going oh you

46:32

know what . But I think as well , I learned that with age

46:35

maturity , accountability

46:37

.

46:38

You've got to know yourself a little bit before you can start helping

46:40

other people .

46:41

I think as well yeah , definitely , and that's part

46:43

of the management training we give . You know you

46:45

do like a self-reflective assessment

46:47

. You know you look at how you learn and

46:49

then so you need to identify well , how do I

46:51

learn to learn it it so that I can pass it

46:53

on to other people ? How do they learn ? Am I communicating

46:56

correctly with them ? Because that might be

46:58

how I want to be communicated with . It doesn't mean

47:00

that someone else is going to respond to it , and it's

47:02

learning that people side .

47:04

Brilliant . It's good to hear that those types of training that

47:06

type of training , sorry is put into place , because

47:08

it's very quick to put people into management

47:10

positions just on the basis of perhaps

47:12

they're doing a good job , you know , and

47:15

to run a recruitment company , you'd have top

47:17

recruiter billing away doing really great things

47:19

with clients , et cetera , and you think , well , they're great , so

47:22

they obviously could be a great manager and they could bring those more people on . It kills them

47:24

because they don't know

47:27

how to manage and all of a sudden they're having to deal with management

47:29

whilst having to deal with trying

47:31

to write business as well and do their day jobs . And

47:34

God , I've learned the hard way on that one Lost

47:36

a few really good people and that's

47:38

just naivety on my part . You know , and

47:41

you look back on that now . I didn't ever do that again . There

47:43

has to be a clear career framework and

47:45

what goes alongside it is the development

47:47

plan also that can evidence that

47:49

they can do the job and that there's the right person there to mentor

47:51

them to that they can do the job and that there's the right person there to mentor them , to train

47:53

them and to show them the ropes in manageable , bite-sized chunks . So it's good to hear that that

47:56

is the case .

47:58

Where are you now ? So after that , I

48:01

actually had a role made for

48:03

me on my skill

48:06

set . So I am now

48:08

a private wealth process manager , so

48:13

really heavily involved in documenting the processes because that's the side I

48:16

really loved , whether that's

48:18

through our client division or our investment

48:20

section . So I document

48:22

those processes , I improve them

48:24

, I look to work with people to improve them

48:27

and just making sure that we are

48:29

moving forward and we're again evolving

48:31

and also involved in our

48:33

acquisition side . So we , we

48:35

are growing . We're on an amazing growth

48:37

journey right now and it's a really exciting time

48:39

to be at foster de novo . So

48:42

you know , in that side , in sort

48:44

of how do we apply what we do , bring

48:46

people in who've been doing something completely

48:48

different , how do we align , how do we move forward

48:50

?

48:51

um , yeah , and sort of from a project manager point

48:53

of view which I've never done before , managing

48:55

those projects , getting that experience yeah

48:58

, and again training and support

49:00

and development and guidance around all these type of

49:02

new skill set that you've got , because this role sounds like it's been created

49:04

for you , is it ?

49:05

yeah , it has and it's sort of been identified

49:08

the parts that I have done well

49:10

through my career . I

49:12

now have been sort of picked

49:14

out to do this role because I did

49:16

this well when I did admin and also paraplying . I

49:18

did that bit . So you know it's put all those elements

49:21

together , um , but there's

49:23

been amazing support from leadership . You

49:26

know lots of people have different skills

49:28

sets . You know we all have bits

49:30

that we do really well and bits

49:32

that you know we get by and we do , and

49:34

it's taking those people you know going

49:37

taking them out for a coffee you know , learning

49:39

from them . How can I , how can I do this

49:41

part , you know , and how do you do this

49:43

? That that's what's been really important on that . But

49:46

yeah , there's definitely at every section

49:48

there's been someone there to

49:50

mentor me , to develop me , whether

49:53

I've gone out looking for it or it's set

49:55

there . We definitely have more of a clear

49:57

framework now and it is really important

49:59

to have that clear track to run on , but it's not

50:01

a set track . You know you don't

50:03

have to go this way . You can go off and go that way

50:05

and you can come back . You know we really

50:07

have that flexibility yeah , I love that flexibility

50:10

absolutely .

50:11

So you don't . Even if you put we went forward a little

50:13

bit too quick , perhaps you might want to step back again

50:15

to where you came from . I heard recently

50:17

someone left the business and came back yeah

50:19

, so that's a really good indication that you

50:22

know they always say don't eat meat

50:24

. But it's like actually in this case yeah , come

50:26

on back . What a great thing to do if

50:28

it's the right environment , because you know , you don't

50:31

know until you know right , and sometimes you've got to go away and

50:33

have a look , and when you come back , happy days . Females

50:37

within financial planning

50:40

there's a distinct lack of them , I think

50:42

it's a distinct lack of females in financial services in general

50:44

, and it's something that's changing . I

50:46

think the numbers are going up . What's

50:49

your take ? On it and the

50:51

culture at Foster De Nevo

50:54

and the leadership team Plenty

50:57

of females .

50:57

Yes , we are quite

51:00

, you know . I think it is just

51:02

. You know it's a theme at the minute

51:04

, isn't it ? Women in finance , and you

51:06

know what is out there . You go out into the

51:08

city , you know , you get the train to

51:10

bank or you go to Leadenhall Market

51:12

and you look around and there's a load of men in suits . And

51:15

you come back in and we do have quite a few financial

51:18

advisors who are male . We do have

51:20

females as well , but you look at our leadership

51:22

team and it is predominantly women

51:24

. Does that motivate you Massively

51:27

?

51:27

Yeah .

51:28

Yeah , it really does , because you

51:30

see people in those roles that you can aspire

51:32

to . But it's not even about gender . It's

51:35

identifying yourself in someone else

51:37

, isn't it ? It's seeing that it's a lot easier

51:39

when they're , you know , a woman , identifying

51:42

another woman , but it's

51:44

identifying those qualities and going right . That's

51:46

where I want to go , but , yeah , we're massive

51:48

on that sort of empowerment , I

51:51

think as well your prime example .

51:52

You created your career progression , um

51:54

how you've been supported on the way you

51:56

know . Definitely a company that is fully

51:59

inclusive and wants to

52:01

promote women , men , everybody you

52:03

know , at the end of the day , who wants to work within financial

52:06

services and financial planning should have access

52:08

to it and I think it creates diversity

52:10

, and it creates diversity amongst the client bank

52:13

as well and the types of people that you want

52:15

to do business with and it's really , really important um

52:18

. What I love also is

52:20

financial planners might well be listening

52:22

to this and to hear your

52:24

journey , the amount of energy and the effort that goes

52:26

in to understanding every aspect

52:28

of the job that you do would give me

52:31

a great deal of confidence if you were my practice manager

52:33

, you know , because I know

52:35

that you can do yeah , I know that you can do

52:37

the job on every angle , on every

52:39

front . I just want to know what's next

52:42

for you , where you know this is your

52:44

current role . Right You're doing ?

52:45

at the moment . Yeah , on the acquisition side .

52:47

Is it acquisitions Because it's a really

52:50

exciting time for Foster De Nova . They've a huge

52:52

investment . They're going out I think three acquisitions

52:54

in the last three months .

52:56

You know Roger's all over the news , yeah

52:58

.

52:58

You guys are getting out there . To me

53:00

over the last couple of years . It's developing into

53:02

a completely different business , you

53:04

know , and it's exciting to see

53:07

so for you . What's

53:10

next ?

53:12

It's a really good question , because I think , if you ask me

53:14

at every point that we've just gone over

53:16

, if you ask me what's next ? Would I have been able

53:18

to identify it ? Probably

53:20

not . And did I expect where it went

53:22

? Again , probably not . So

53:24

for me , it's going along with the journey

53:27

and seeing where it takes me . Yeah

53:30

, yeah , I just find it really exciting

53:32

that you know I get to be a part of the journey

53:34

. Well

53:40

in um , yeah , I just find it really exciting that you know I get to be a part of the journey well , in a couple of months time

53:42

, you'll have a baby .

53:42

Yeah , so that will slow the process down . I'll have to stop for that . Well , hey , it slows the process down

53:44

. It's part of life , isn't it ? Yeah ?

53:45

definitely , but I feel like I'm at a good

53:47

place . Yeah , um , I feel really supported

53:49

as well , you know , and that

53:52

I'll be coming back into my

53:54

role . Um , I feel assured that

53:56

I'll be doing that and , yeah , I'll be back

53:58

on my track and looking for the next place to run

54:00

as a guy , we don't

54:02

think about when we have children whether

54:05

or not it's going to affect our life .

54:05

We kind of get a bit annoyed really

54:08

that we don't you know same . Paternity

54:10

leave is only really just sort of come in it

54:12

was like you have two weeks and see you later . Um

54:15

, was

54:17

there a point where you were worried , like

54:19

having a child and a career ? It

54:22

doesn't worry you because a lot of women you you

54:24

can get worried about , like , if I have

54:26

a child , it's going to affect my career what

54:29

is the ?

54:29

you know you're younger than I am . What's it ?

54:31

like now , what do people worry as much

54:33

? Or is it just it's , it's , it's , it's

54:35

absolutely fine , like it's totally acceptable and

54:38

no one ?

54:38

yeah , I think again , it's those leaders

54:40

that you see around you . You know

54:42

there's a lot of mothers in our management

54:44

team that have gone on . You

54:46

know they've done amazing things . They've had children

54:49

. They come back and they've done even more amazing things . So

54:51

you , you see it happening around you . So

54:54

, no , it doesn't worry me . I'm

54:56

always excited for the fresh perspective that's

54:59

going to bring .

54:59

Yeah , if I sounded a bit of an old fuddy-duddy

55:01

then by saying that it's just , I'm interested

55:04

. Yeah , I know , I'm just genuinely interested

55:06

Things like mental health as well well-being

55:09

within the workplace . I think historically

55:11

no

55:16

one really talked about work stress or depression or anxiety and if you talked about in the workplace

55:18

, you were worried you'd lose your job , whereas now companies

55:21

are spending time and investing in well-being

55:23

for their employees definitely um , I

55:25

think it's massively important because I think businesses

55:27

have a duty of care to to deliver that and

55:30

as employees we have accountability to ourselves to ensure

55:32

that we are doing the right things around our mental fitness

55:34

and taking those things that are put in front of us to

55:37

hopefully better improve . But any kind of

55:39

culture which becomes open and

55:41

progressive is

55:44

is is right in my

55:46

eyes and that's a part of again the

55:49

lack of fear in wanting to

55:52

say something or express

55:54

something , because once it's out

55:56

, you can move forward , can't you

55:58

? and I think that works in the work in the workplace

56:01

.

56:01

That's massive yeah , that's definitely the culture

56:03

we have is is openness you know

56:05

, and it is , at the end

56:07

of the day , about the people . You know you

56:10

do a job and you have a job title , but you are a

56:12

person yeah , and that's massively . You know

56:14

we have a lot of , but you are a person and that's massively . You know we have a lot of wellbeing

56:16

schemes and things like

56:18

that to support people through that process . Well

56:20

, josie , listen .

56:21

Thank you so much for breaking down your career journey

56:23

. I think it's going to be so interesting

56:25

for those that are thinking about joining the financial

56:27

planning profession and trying to understand and

56:29

navigate all the different pathways that can go down

56:32

, because all you ever see is an advert for an admin power

56:34

planner or a financial planner . But you've absolutely

56:37

opened up a world of opportunities

56:39

for others , and

56:41

especially within Foster De Novo

56:43

Now . Helena told me

56:45

that they are very much

56:47

interested in junior people joining

56:49

the business because of exactly

56:52

this reason that you can progress really quickly

56:54

through the business , get the right support , the right

56:56

training . You don't have to have experience

56:58

to get into financial planning right .

57:01

Completely that's it . That's

57:03

what we're looking for . We're looking for people who want to

57:05

get in and get stuck in , and the

57:07

opportunity is there .

57:08

Josie , thank you so much for your time today . Appreciate it .

57:09

Thank you so much .