0:13

Welcome

0:15

path finders to the find the path podcast

0:17

actual play of the Hell's Rubbles Adventure

0:19

Path, rumor mill number sixteen.

0:22

Sweet sixteen. Goodness.

0:26

Yes. So we are going to be talking about episodes

0:28

forty six, forty seven, and

0:30

forty eight, as well as answering some

0:32

emails. Indeed. They're

0:34

very excited. So these last couple episodes

0:37

have been very exciting. So starting

0:39

in episode forty six, was

0:42

when we went to the holding house

0:44

to free the hell night armagers. Things

0:46

went surprisingly well.

0:49

I know.

0:50

It's interesting to see, like, how preparation

0:52

pays off. Right? because, like, we went and we paid

0:54

the money to get a really good forgery and,

0:56

like, we got lucky with Bob. Assuming we got lucky

0:58

with some of the for deception checks to, like,

1:00

convince them that we're all on the up and up. Well,

1:02

fortunately, you guys you had some bonuses because

1:05

you rolled exceptionally well. on securing

1:07

some of the things. And you had some penalties because you

1:09

rolled exceptionally poorly on securing some of the

1:11

things, which kinda made it a bit of a wash.

1:14

Fortunately,

1:15

Jessica rolled pretty well. You guys

1:17

didn't really do anything that drew a lot of

1:19

unwarranted. I suppose

1:20

in that case it would have been warranted. attention

1:23

to yourself. I want attention

1:25

to yourself. Yes. So,

1:27

technically, we really weren't supposed to

1:29

be there, but Well,

1:31

but what I liked about it was, like, even though

1:33

even if we're being successful, like, Rick

1:35

found a way to still make it tense. Right? Like,

1:37

it's still we're still that's why I kinda

1:39

do, like, the secret checks is for, like, moments like this

1:41

when it's, like, maybe

1:44

maybe not. Maybe she's kind of suspicious.

1:46

Is she doing that thing where she's faking us out? Have go

1:48

to the jail cell and then they'll arrest us.

1:51

Like, it's very, like, tense,

1:53

whereas, like, in, like, first edition, we would just roll

1:55

it, be, like, Oh, man. I got a thirty five.

1:57

I have crushed this. There's no way. Yeah.

1:59

But here

1:59

you're just not sure.

2:01

Yeah. If she has to walk you

2:04

into the back of this release the kite.

2:06

No. But if you if you

2:08

hadn't done that, I'd have literally been like, man, that was a

2:10

smart move because now we can't get out. She

2:13

wouldn't have said anything.

2:14

She would have let us go in there with all the chains and

2:16

then just lock

2:16

the store behind us and left us in

2:19

the room where the Kaiden can animate chains

2:21

and impale us with them. should've been like,

2:23

oh, yes. They're right through right through here, open the

2:25

door and, like, walked us all in and be like,

2:28

oh, no. I are stevid. Yeah.

2:30

Well, we were doing that whole, like, sense

2:33

motive.

2:34

Sensitive. Sensitive. Sensitive. Yeah.

2:37

Sensitive.

2:38

There's a lot of Sensitive. lot of Sensitive. Anybody. It was,

2:40

like, what Well, even then, it says, motive.

2:42

You can't be sure that you actually got the right

2:45

thing. So it's, like, am I sense motivating correctly?

2:47

Or Yeah. Am I logging myself

2:49

out because I think that they think something,

2:52

but they don't. When

2:53

I think at some point, we had exact opposite

2:55

thoughts and then

2:57

I picked up that she was scared of the chain lady.

2:59

And I think Chesapeake was the only one

3:01

that knew what she was. And -- Oh, yeah.

3:03

I'm not a kite man. Yeah. -- really, yeah, which

3:05

it wasn't a kite you said it's a it's a

3:08

She is a kitten. She's a form of kitten.

3:10

I thought Titan was the highest tier of what kind

3:12

of creature they are. So interesting

3:14

thing with with

3:16

Kite. I'm actually not one hundred percent positive. This

3:18

is actually transition from first edition to second

3:20

edition thing that we've seen a number of occasions.

3:22

I mean, Kiteans used to be just chain doubles.

3:24

was literally the -- Yeah. -- the chain battles.

3:27

The chain battles were titans. And then

3:29

they expanded that for titans being their own thing.

3:31

And now they've expanded it again where

3:34

Veltstrach is the name

3:37

of this outsider species that

3:39

people commonly refer to as kiteans.

3:41

Kieton, however, is a quote unquote misattribution

3:44

that the Veltrex tolerate with cold Amusement

3:46

as the term Kieton denotes a master or

3:48

virtue or so amongst their kind. and

3:51

these fiends enjoy being labeled as masters of their

3:53

horpads of perfection through agony.

3:55

So So much fun. Yeah.

3:58

Yeah. What's in a name?

4:00

Like, honestly, did we even stand a

4:02

chance in the room with all those chains? because the

4:04

description Chesery got was oh, snow.

4:06

I'm not fighting her in here with chains that she

4:08

can animate at will and use to impale people.

4:11

It would have definitely been an

4:13

unpleasant fight. The evangelist

4:15

Velstrax are very

4:17

dangerous. Mhmm. Per AC of

4:19

twenty four is pretty impressive. Mhmm. Not

4:22

so impressive because as be able to hit her probably

4:25

some of the frontline people fifty percent of the

4:27

time. Mhmm. And she does have a weakness against

4:29

silver. Oh,

4:29

okay. We don't have that sword. That that helps.

4:32

Yeah. Silver also deactivates her regeneration

4:34

of ten, which is really useless.

4:38

So you were equipped with a weapon that would help

4:40

you. However, you got a little bit of a taste of

4:42

her unnerving gaze, which is unblazoned

4:44

-- Yeah. -- which also when she's not animating

4:47

chains to everything around her. The

4:49

interesting thing with the anime chains is

4:52

all the anime chains does is give

4:54

her animates any chains within

4:56

twenty feet and makes her makes it able

4:58

for her to attack from any of those squares.

5:00

Mhmm. So it doesn't give her extra

5:02

text. She can just She has, like, super

5:04

reach. Yeah. She basically has reach to

5:06

attack anything in the room. Wow.

5:08

That's cool. That's actually kinda cool. Which

5:10

is coupled with the fact that she has attack of opportunity.

5:13

No. I was gonna say I was gonna say she has to have

5:15

attack for opportunity to go with that. Yeah. Well.

5:17

And in addition, if she critically hits with a

5:19

chain, she impels the person in place.

5:22

where the game, the grab condition is unable

5:24

to recover from the persistent bleed damage

5:27

that this does until they make ADC

5:29

twenty five escape check.

5:30

Wow. Yeah. I think Chesapeake

5:33

barely passed to figure out what she was

5:35

because he knew that she could animate chains and that

5:37

he they used them to impale people

5:39

and basically bleed them out. Yeah. So

5:41

I'm like

5:42

I

5:42

mean, I don't know about everybody's, but Nikola's

5:45

armor class was definitely lower wearing

5:47

the scale mail than it is with his usual

5:49

armor. But

5:49

yeah. So, yeah, I'm I'm real glad we didn't

5:52

fight her. Real

5:52

real glad. Yeah. We we did get close

5:55

to to almost fighting her when, like, Chesapeake

5:57

kind of, like, lost it at

5:59

seeing his nephew being

6:01

tortured. Yeah.

6:02

It's not pleasant. But

6:04

I also somewhat like slash dislike

6:06

the fact that and I I think this might be

6:08

for all Bellestrike, that they

6:10

have a special ability called pain site.

6:12

That means that they automatically

6:14

know if a creature has the doomed dying or

6:16

wounded condition so that they

6:18

can specifically target them. Okay. Okay.

6:22

Right. So they're one of those enemies that's like, oh,

6:24

you're dying. Let's make that worse.

6:26

Yes. Horrifying. It would

6:28

have definitely been an interesting fight. Interesting.

6:32

He says. Mhmm. Yeah. But

6:34

despite some, I guess, what oh, we call that

6:36

uncharacteristic carrying of Chesapeake,

6:38

the card. Mhmm. We did manage to

6:40

upgrade the card. I don't wanna say browbeat,

6:43

but, like, convince the the

6:45

creature that we really needed

6:47

them now. We basically

6:48

used the power of mortal law and

6:51

went no. Like Yeah. It's

6:53

very awful. I mean, Yeah.

6:55

They're still devils even if there are subspecies.

6:58

They're still devils. Well, technically, they

7:00

they're not devils. They are fiends.

7:02

but they are not devils. Yeah. The

7:04

the difference between the the titans

7:06

and the the devils, you know, they're no longer

7:08

related to one another as titans

7:10

or fell strikes, in this case,

7:12

are actually all inhabitants of the plane of

7:14

shadow. So no longer have any sense.

7:16

But they're still lost full because

7:18

I'm imagining they align with Yes. It is a

7:20

lawful evil evil.

7:23

They're lawful evil creatures. Yes. And it

7:25

shows that there's like this overlap in

7:27

a lot of these instances

7:29

with, like, Zonathan and Azmodaeus

7:32

in terms of, like, you know,

7:34

we're we're cool with, like, a little light torture

7:36

and things like that because it's not illegal if

7:38

we don't say it's illegal. They're both lawful

7:40

evil societies. I mean, they're -- Yeah.

7:42

-- you know, they're not gonna have

7:45

too much friction. when

7:46

it comes to that aspect. Oh, no. There is

7:48

the idea of what law is actually

7:50

the law. So there is a little bit of,

7:52

like, I follow the law

7:53

of hell. I do not care about your mortal

7:55

laws. Like that kind of thing, there's a lot of what you

7:57

can do. You can get into that, the whole generalities of

7:59

that

7:59

specifically, although generally speaking,

8:02

like, it's

8:03

interesting thing of the the lawful

8:05

evil side of especially like nations like, you

8:07

know, night all and

8:08

ChileX where all of these

8:11

things that are

8:12

unabashedly evil are also

8:14

lawful.

8:15

But there are certain things that it's like

8:17

the the general concept of murder

8:19

you know, murder is bad. However,

8:21

of course, and obviously, this is pure

8:24

evil. The fact that they don't consider slaves.

8:26

People means that murdering them

8:28

is not illegal because they are

8:30

evil evil people. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's

8:32

kind of interesting to look at like there's like a bare

8:35

set of kind of agreements that have

8:37

to be made in a in a functional society and,

8:39

like, murders usually one of them staffed

8:41

is usually, you know,

8:42

frowned upon but then there's like so

8:44

much gray area around that that's where

8:46

like all the different societies end up kind of

8:48

differing. It is somewhat interesting with the

8:50

planes or or structures

8:52

like devils have where you can say,

8:54

like, there's the classic argument of, you know,

8:56

I'm lawful because I believe in the

8:58

ideals of law even if I don't adhere to

9:00

a specific set of laws.

9:02

With a lot of devils and things like

9:04

that, Azmodeus has a full

9:06

book of every single applicable

9:08

situation that could ever occur. Mhmm.

9:11

And so it's like there is technically a law that

9:13

applies to each one of those. Now whether or not every

9:15

single devil knows every one of those,

9:17

you imagine that Hell has its own form of

9:19

punishment. I'd love to see the a prison

9:21

break in hell from hell's prison

9:23

for devils that break the law. Dude, it's a

9:25

crazy news. size out. Get on that

9:27

adventure pad that would be fun.

9:29

But it it's always the

9:31

interesting thing again of, you know,

9:33

when you're dealing with a creature like this

9:35

where it's hard as a

9:37

game master, and I'm sure, you know, any of us that have been

9:39

in the game master's seat can attest to this.

9:41

It's sometimes hard for me to put myself fully

9:43

into the otherworldly

9:44

head of

9:45

an outsider, a creature that in no way thinks

9:47

like a human does. Yeah.

9:49

Because, yeah, in the prophecy where they have the

9:51

entire argument, if you never wanna meet an angel

9:53

because they so inhuman that

9:55

they don't think about morality in

9:57

the way that mortals do,

9:59

only the adherence to the divine

10:02

word. That's

10:02

why Christopher Walker was so good and that wasn't

10:04

that him? Christopher Walker

10:05

was great. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

10:06

because, I mean, he's a little otherworldly

10:09

anyway.

10:09

And Vega Morton said was

10:11

great. Vigo Martinson as Lucifer at

10:13

the end of that movie is flipping amazing.

10:15

Yeah. Anyway, it looks like a Wi Fi.

10:17

Wi Fi first contact is a really, like,

10:19

interesting -- Oh. -- kind of, like, thought

10:21

experiment because you're talking about alien

10:23

societies that don't have any concept

10:25

of morality maybe in in similarity

10:27

to what we think of and they may think, for

10:29

instance, like, eating with your mouth

10:32

is a horrible gross experience, you

10:34

know. But for us, it's just like normal.

10:36

So, again, it makes me I don't know

10:38

why I immediately went back to that

10:40

T and G first season episode

10:42

where, like, Wesley steps and some flowers and they're like,

10:44

now you have to be mad at that

10:46

and they're like, because all of our crimes are pun are

10:48

punishable by death, nobody ever breaks the law and they're

10:50

and he's just like, what? That's

10:53

like, technically, that would work. like us.

10:55

Exactly. No. That's the thing. It's like it totally works. It

10:57

makes a completely law abiding society.

11:00

Yeah. Well, as long

11:01

as you're caught. sure that there's still some people that are

11:03

desperate enough that they would still break the law because of

11:05

the situations that they're placed in. Oh, yeah.

11:07

Anyway, you fortunately did not have to fight

11:09

that cut.

11:10

It's true that we managed to get all

11:12

of the armagers out

11:14

taking us up to episode forty

11:16

seven where we had a surprisingly easy

11:18

time getting them out of the holding house

11:20

and into our carriage.

11:23

Relatively pretty much. I think once we

11:25

dealt with the VELSTACK, that was like the the big

11:27

thing. And that was, like, the big crescendo, and

11:29

then it was kind of the de novo model. Like, alright.

11:31

Now you've got through the hard part. Yeah. Mhmm.

11:33

I can't remember where I read the the breakdown that

11:35

was talking about story structure. I'm

11:37

sure maybe one of the teachers that English

11:39

majors here could probably get into that but it is that

11:41

idea of you formulate a

11:43

plan, you set

11:44

up the plan, you execute the plan,

11:46

and then for standard story

11:48

structure, that is when the full the

11:50

plan arises -- Mhmm. -- which in this case

11:53

was that there

11:53

is a freaking kite in there -- Mhmm. --

11:55

which that makes you reevaluate your plan

11:58

to be you guys actually succeeded to the point

12:00

where you didn't even have to reevaluate your plan. It was just

12:02

that was the road bump. It wasn't Okay.

12:04

Well, we fought and murdered this kite, and now we're all covered

12:06

in blood. So Let's

12:08

hope that no one heard that. Let's wait ten minutes

12:10

or so while Chesapeake presses

12:12

everyone to try to make us look clean, kinda walk

12:14

out, be like, that's fun.

12:16

It's all good. You're

12:17

not gonna check. It's the interesting thing

12:19

with with

12:20

tabletop gaming, with doing the actual

12:22

play that is actually us just playing the

12:25

game. where sometimes the plane just works. Even

12:27

though our expectation is for the plane to fall

12:29

apart because we're so used to watching

12:31

these narratives.

12:32

you guys put in the the

12:34

legwork. You got everything set up and the plane

12:36

just worked for you. So I think Jordan kinda

12:38

sums that up where Jordan was saying surprisingly, it

12:40

went off smoothly. Yeah. Well, I

12:42

mean, you guys put in the legwork. Mhmm.

12:44

Yeah. Well, even

12:45

when we put in the legwork and stuff,

12:46

you know, one really

12:48

bad role is all it

12:50

takes for everything to go to

12:53

crap, you know. Of course. That's the nature of the like

12:55

Rick was saying though, that's the nature of these games.

12:57

So -- Yeah. -- you just you

12:59

know, you never know what the dice are gonna do.

13:01

It's

13:01

true. I think that's part of now I'm getting

13:03

into to talking overall about

13:05

actual place, but think that is

13:07

part of the the appeal of actual place is

13:09

because it is random dice rolls,

13:11

it's different than listening to a standard

13:14

narrative because You can have this

13:16

entire build up about Lucia

13:18

coming into her own and becoming separate from her

13:20

family and all the rest of that, and then she gets

13:22

critically shot in the back by crossbow bolt

13:24

and dies. Yeah. That

13:26

would

13:26

never happen. There wouldn't there'd normally be

13:28

this big build up to a character death.

13:30

And instead, it's always abrupt.

13:33

Yeah. A lot of times. Yeah. That's the

13:35

appeal. It's like it's nonstandard story

13:37

structure. And it it is

13:39

literally every time we go into a fight,

13:41

it is possible one of us or all of us

13:43

dies. Right? Like, there's no, like,

13:45

plot armor or heavy scripting

13:47

where we're always gonna come out on top. We, the

13:49

players, we, you know, the act on the stage.

13:51

Don't even know if we're gonna make it to the next

13:53

episode. Yeah. Like, content could have been murdering

13:55

everyone, and then it's just like, okay. Well,

13:57

the three of us left run for our

13:59

lives. Like, sorry,

13:59

armagers will punch out a guard or two on the way.

14:02

Try to keep up. Try to

14:04

keep up. Yeah. But fortunately,

14:06

it didn't go that way. It did

14:08

not. Yep.

14:09

So we did manage to make our way

14:11

out of the city playing it cool.

14:14

I think being overly paranoid also

14:16

playing in our favor because They

14:18

did check inside to make sure that everybody was still chained

14:20

in and that the number of people were correct and

14:22

all of that. So Yeah. We did

14:24

data center protocols. Yeah. We just managed to,

14:26

you know, use their their love of rules and

14:29

regulations against them. Yeah.

14:31

In in order to get the

14:33

armagers back todictor Tavio.

14:36

And so, yeah,

14:38

he's got his order of the Torrance

14:40

kind of sorta back.

14:41

Either or big. You guys can leave if

14:43

you want to. and then all of them are like, we'll stay

14:45

with you. Oh, captain. Yeah. Yeah.

14:48

Very okay. my captain. And

14:50

it seems that we potentially

14:52

have a new team to work with the Silver Ravens

14:54

as well now. As

14:55

soon as we find the hideout, Octavio

14:58

has told us about where it's protected

15:00

fromrying. We need to get them back into the city,

15:02

of course. But, you know, until then. Yep.

15:04

But

15:04

they also did show us a hidden

15:07

entrance into the city to get into

15:09

the the salt market --

15:10

Mhmm. -- a little smugglers tunnel. Yeah.

15:12

So that's nice. So now we have a way to get out of

15:14

the city without having to pay the toll if we want to.

15:16

also

15:16

without being observed, which is always useful.

15:18

Which,

15:18

yeah, also a nice plus. So that

15:21

was pretty fun. And

15:23

then that takes us into episode forty

15:25

eight. of us. Going

15:28

to said safe house and

15:30

finding some goodies. Every loves goodies. One of

15:32

the safe houses, not the one that's protecting us.

15:34

Yeah. We one of the safe house A bunch

15:36

of safe houses now. It's always good to have

15:38

a safe house because you never know when you're gonna need

15:40

to disappear. Like the next time with Cheah

15:42

is being chased by the Qatar she'll have somewhere to

15:44

run to. But

15:47

we did also inform Saturnia

15:49

of our six success. And then she's like,

15:51

hey, you guys need another hideout and we're like two

15:53

in one episode. Wow. That's

15:56

true. that

15:58

was interesting. I did not expect

16:00

that Saturnia would be like, yeah, here's

16:02

another safe house that's, you know, just

16:05

my basement. So to a

16:06

degree, Saturnia's option is a little different

16:08

than the mechanical safe house benefit. More

16:10

or less, she's provided all of you with a meeting

16:12

space. So it's like if we need to

16:14

do another meet up on this side as opposed to the

16:16

other side, it's

16:17

of course not really set up for a large

16:19

group of people and it's a little bit more high traffic.

16:22

Yeah. But it's it's a good place for

16:24

people to hide if they really need to,

16:26

like, you know, one of the teams needs to

16:28

hide in the basement. You know? Yeah.

16:30

And it's a better meeting space

16:32

than Nico's tiny apartment. Also That's

16:35

also true. Yeah. So

16:37

all

16:37

of you with you, you could just talk stop down

16:39

there with your bed rolls. Not that I think any of you carry

16:41

bed rolls because most of you I don't even think really

16:43

weird walking through this city with, like, adventurers

16:46

packs on, you know.

16:47

gonna say, I think the understanding is, like,

16:49

we have them, but they're

16:51

in our I mean, if

16:52

we bought it in a mattress kit. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

16:54

the treasury has a whole backpack of

16:56

crap, like, with rope and all the normal

16:58

stuff that you would buy that he doesn't take with him

17:00

when around the city. He does have a bed roll and a

17:02

blanket. I think he even has a pup tent. but, you know, just

17:04

that standard, like, adventure stuff, but he's

17:07

not hauling that around the city. No.

17:09

because it would be really suspicious. It's like, oh,

17:11

where are you going? camp.

17:13

You know where? And you, like, you know, try to hide your, like,

17:16

giant backpack and armor and

17:18

your swords. Like, I'm not up to anything

17:20

suspicious officer. Yeah.

17:23

I just I just imagine Chesapeake has a

17:25

a dusty old, like, the storage closet or

17:27

something that he opens it up and like a canoe nearly

17:29

falls out on him and all the rest of this, like,

17:32

camping gear or just sitting there to add

17:34

fun. Skis.

17:37

But, yes, from there, we

17:39

had a split, and Chesapeake had had

17:41

a little heart to heart with

17:43

everybody's favorite NPC

17:45

head in haste. Yeah. It's time, you

17:47

know, it's it's Chezor eighty to come clean

17:49

before that relationship got any further

17:51

along. No. Which thank you for

17:53

modeling healthy relationships. Don't wait

17:55

until you're a year into the relationship. Be like,

17:57

by the way, I have a

17:59

deep dark secret.

17:59

Also, Edmund had a crazy secret.

18:02

Also, worth a hat, man.

18:04

Yeah. Beautiful secret. I did

18:05

not. Yeah. That's true. I did not call him as Rosegent Targos.

18:08

That was a very good place. Yeah. I

18:10

didn't see that coming, but I

18:12

figured I was like there has to be more to head of

18:14

him just I don't know. I just have

18:16

that cool. He's too interesting. I

18:18

mean, he's like a cool backer, you

18:19

know. I yeah. I did feel like he

18:22

was probably part of some

18:24

rebellion shenanigans, but I didn't know he was

18:26

the rebellion.

18:27

Oh, goodness. And here

18:29

he knows who all of us r

18:31

and everything. It's true. Given tabs on us because

18:33

he left that rose for Nikola that one

18:36

time.

18:36

Yeah. Well,

18:36

he seems to be keeping tabs on Nikola. I don't

18:39

know if he knows necessarily all everything about the roses. And he

18:41

gave

18:41

me five roses at one point. So

18:43

Yeah. He knows. Because we all talked to

18:45

him. We all talked to him at one point. Yeah. He

18:47

doesn't know all our deep dark

18:49

secrets. Yeah. He doesn't know all our secrets.

18:51

He just knows that we're all working together.

18:53

That

18:53

you know of. No. I

18:55

mean, yeah. Super

18:56

stealth, the Del Monte. I mean,

18:58

who knows? But that's

18:59

crazy that he's he's

19:02

been the rose the whole time and,

19:04

like, he even said he has his own people

19:06

investigating, like, some of the,

19:08

like, missing people in old contango and stuff, like The

19:10

murder. Amazing.

19:12

But yeah. No. That was that was really cool.

19:14

I mean, we've we've

19:17

hopefully got some more information

19:20

on looking into the

19:22

murders or well, potentially

19:24

the double crime

19:25

of both the murders and the kidnappings. Yeah.

19:28

Heinemann had one of his followers or

19:31

the one of the followers of Milan

19:33

was murdered, and he has her body in his basement.

19:35

And can Cass speak with dead, so I figure

19:37

that's a pretty good lead for us during

19:39

the next episode. mean, if we did

19:41

do CSI Contargo

19:44

in the Path Finder universe, every investigator

19:46

would have speak with dead. Well,

19:48

I mean, I think it's uncommon. I don't think it's one of the things you can just

19:50

pick up anymore. I think that's specifically why

19:52

they made it uncommon is because it's

19:55

It almost removes the need for the

19:58

standard, like, foot investigations, or you have to

19:59

get into, like, every murderer, every

20:02

time they kill someone, rips their jaw

20:04

bone off. so that you can't speak with dead with the more

20:06

-- Yeah. -- for the rest of the Well, there's another one

20:08

e spell called red hand of the killer that you

20:10

can pass, and it paints the the

20:12

killer's hands red. for the

20:14

duration of the spell. So, like, you can literally be

20:16

like, who killed this man and, like, start looking at

20:18

everybody's poems to figure out, like, who

20:20

who who done it? I think I mentioned this before. It's

20:22

part of the reason that I like the two e

20:24

investigator, more than the one e

20:26

investigator.

20:26

Yeah. And a lot of the archotypes

20:28

for it. I remember being like, this just

20:30

don't really fit with anything. Like, I ended

20:32

up not using half of the stuff that I would get

20:34

from my one e investigator.

20:36

And so, yeah, I'm I'm definitely enjoying

20:39

the TUI one because it does

20:41

feel more investigative.

20:43

again, it gets back to the hole. You don't have that

20:46

holmesian, you know, deduction sort of thing.

20:48

Just be like, Holmes, who do you think did

20:50

it? That guy? Why?

20:52

Because the voices in my head tell me that he did

20:54

after it cast a spell. Where's the fun of

20:57

that? Too easy. I

20:58

want the whole Sherlock moment where he's

21:01

going through in his head. Alright. Punch him in the

21:03

jaw. Just locate his knee. You know all

21:05

that stuff. Yeah.

21:06

And it does say you're more along the lines of it's

21:09

like the shadows on the floor don't match up

21:11

with the position of the sun. I

21:13

mean, that too. But

21:16

little The German word for

21:18

anger, anyway. No. No.

21:21

Yes. I do hope that we get our own

21:23

little squad

21:25

of Milani followers because I know,

21:27

like, Nikola follows Milani

21:29

now. BlueJea follows Milani. So we've

21:31

got some Milani followers in our group, so that

21:33

will be delightful. Yeah.

21:34

Actually -- Yeah. -- I

21:35

am too. I just keep it very

21:37

close to this. Yeah. I think

21:39

only Nikola knows that technically.

21:42

I

21:42

don't know, because But she has only told

21:44

the bellflower network. She hasn't told anybody

21:46

else. The only

21:47

hint that I gave was that whenever

21:49

we were all staying at nicholas,

21:51

I got up during the night and set prayer at the

21:54

shrine. No. And I think

21:55

Rick had his role perception in Nico

21:57

is the only one who That's

21:59

right. That's

21:59

right. Yeah. Yeah. Nikola is probably the only

22:01

one that suspects that Mhmm.

22:04

Of

22:04

course, he hasn't

22:05

said anything because, like, well, I mean,

22:09

It's

22:09

an underground faith that people

22:11

don't necessarily want to admit happening.

22:13

I do appreciate all of the we have

22:15

three worshipers of Milani and all three of us are

22:17

like, let's make sure nobody snow stuff. We

22:19

follow a lot. Meanwhile,

22:20

Adrian is, like, I'm not really religious. I used

22:23

to follow Bazamara.

22:24

Chazara is really over all

22:26

the whole divine deity bullshit

22:29

crap. So, you know, he he

22:31

wears the holy symbol of surrendering because it's

22:33

just who is a priestess of Cirenaire, helped him

22:35

on his ditch in the Asmodeus thing, but

22:37

it's more like a reminder to not be

22:39

a jerk. More than I'm actually

22:42

faithful to Cirenaire. you

22:43

get that feeling of it just kinda gets a little

22:46

bit tighter every time you have mean

22:48

thoughts. The old folks are over

22:50

here like religion. We don't know. And you

22:52

also got a little bit of the back story as far

22:54

as a head of him was concerned and up on Yeah. We

22:56

need to find his mother and murder

22:58

her, and then we need to help dad's We

23:00

have to save his father. This is our new

23:02

most important mission. Yes.

23:04

That is now on our back burner of we

23:06

got it powerful enough that we can help the dad.

23:09

Yeah?

23:09

Yeah. I wanna help the dad.

23:11

He makes

23:11

me sad. Yeah. We got a

23:13

long way to go because head of him, I think, is the

23:16

leveler too on us. Yeah. Oh,

23:18

man.

23:18

Right. Yeah. All ready for some

23:21

emails. Yeah. I suppose we should jump

23:23

in. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes.

23:25

We have one email today, and this email comes

23:27

from Mason from Rosenberg, Oregon.

23:30

And this is maybe from

23:32

Wardle in Varicia. k.

23:35

k. That sounds good. Yeah. I don't know where

23:37

the world is, but you're from there now. portal.

23:39

I I literally was like, that's literally what

23:41

I thought. Like, water It's a world

23:43

like the game. No. Yeah. WRTLI

23:46

think it's pronounced with an a. I think it's Whirlpool.

23:50

Whirl? Yeah. Whirlpool is

23:52

Frontail tier trading post primarily populated by

23:54

swaddlers and trappers who do not mind

23:56

the inhospitable environment of the mushrooms.

24:00

Sweet. apparently,

24:00

all the houses rise up out of the murky water

24:02

on stilts connected by wooden boardwalks.

24:05

That sounds

24:06

fun. Oh, that nature exports of the town

24:09

are fungus and

24:11

Furs mostly sent down the Younta

24:13

Bikari River to Magnemar. The

24:15

town does support a few

24:17

successful brothels and up cariously

24:19

tilted tavern called the lean to. I

24:21

love it. I love the lean to. Which

24:23

serves a local liqueur called

24:26

BOGGrog. Oh. I'm logged

24:28

here for this. It's so

24:30

terrible. It sounds like it'll take, you know, the

24:32

paint off a wall. Let's check it.

24:34

and lining out your stomach. That'll

24:36

grow some hair on your chest. That

24:38

sounds exactly I don't know if anybody here has had

24:40

it because I haven't ranch water.

24:42

which is apparently an alcoholic beverage that

24:44

sounds terrible because it basically sounds like

24:46

tequila and water. No. Yep.

24:48

It sounds like it will cause blindness.

24:51

Yep. It's so fun. But

24:53

Mason writes, hello there, find the

24:55

path crew. Oh, I just Hello,

24:58

Mason. Hello. I've

25:00

been wanting to play Hell's rebels for ages

25:02

and it always sounded like such an awesome

25:04

adventure with the Fantasy Star Wars

25:06

feel. Unless, I only have one

25:08

group that enjoys Path finder, and we've been working through Rise

25:10

of the Roomlords and some homebrew

25:12

adventures for years. So I'd given up on getting

25:14

to experience it, but then I discovered you guys

25:16

and gals were running it and

25:18

I'm loving every second. I see.

25:20

Thank you very good to hear. I'm

25:21

glad you're enjoying it. Rise of the

25:22

rain Lord is also very good.

25:24

Sure. Look, yes. When it comes to

25:26

picking a new campaign, how do you guys

25:28

do it? Does the GM decide on their own

25:30

which AP they want to run, or do you do a

25:32

group poll or something to see what everyone

25:35

is in it in. And does Rick ever get to be a player

25:37

in your home games? Used

25:40

to. First off, yeah, we don't do

25:42

home anymore, we do this. It should

25:44

say time time.

25:46

It was it was always a group discussion.

25:49

was kinda one of those, hey, I'm interested in this one

25:51

and then we, you know, talk about

25:54

it. Back in the day, we actually scheduled it

25:56

out. So we would have, like, the next two or three and --

25:58

Yeah. -- the queue. We were doing them

26:00

chronologically for a while. Mhmm. And then we started to

26:02

skip a while. And then

26:05

we ended up skipping skipping around some It's that problem

26:07

of, like, we would find, like, a new adventure path would come out and

26:09

we'd like, man, we really wanna play strange Aon's and

26:11

then we'd go play, you know, like, go through do that

26:13

instead of going back through everything

26:15

in order. Yeah. I think a lot of

26:17

times, if I remember

26:18

correctly, because it's been five years since the

26:21

last time we we did something that

26:23

wasn't recorded. Yeah. I would

26:25

just approach you guys with a couple of

26:27

them. I remember the first time actually

26:29

with Jess Jordan and Rachel

26:31

because they had not played an adventure path

26:33

before. And I think they're, like,

26:35

eighteen

26:35

or sixteen, eighteen of them

26:37

out at that point. I just went through all

26:40

of them. And just when, like, here's the

26:42

basic rundown of what each of these are, which

26:44

is when you guys settled on Legacy of Fire, which was

26:46

the first one I ran for you. Mhmm. Heck

26:48

yeah. And then after that, a lot of times, it was like, I really

26:50

wanna run, rise the room lords because I wanna

26:52

do the room lords trilogy at some

26:54

point. I think having player input is

26:56

very important and decided because you want people to play

26:58

something that they're interested in. Yeah. But

27:00

at the same time for the g m, actually running

27:02

a game if you're not interested in running

27:05

it. Everybody has

27:05

to wanna play it.

27:06

Yeah. Yep. I think presenting people with like

27:09

three to five options because there are so

27:11

many adventure paths is probably the best way of going

27:13

about it. Yeah.

27:14

And I know, like so,

27:17

like, as far as Rick being a player, he has been

27:19

a player before. So

27:21

we've done Let's see. Carrying Crown

27:23

was run by Ross. I did serpent

27:25

skull and the first two books

27:27

of Iron Gods. before

27:29

that kind of fell apart his time.

27:31

Yeah.

27:31

Back in the day, Ross also rang me through Chris

27:33

of the Crimson throne and

27:36

up to book five of Kingmaker. Unfortunately,

27:38

that one we didn't finish. But that one was

27:40

fun. That one sticks with me. I

27:42

do still wanna play that at some point.

27:45

Yep. Whether that's one year or two years because I I have

27:47

a feeling that's one of the ones that, like, it you never

27:49

play the same twice. Yeah.

27:51

It

27:51

it has definitely ways to turn out

27:53

differently for sure. And actually, one

27:55

one thought process I had before, and I've never

27:57

needed to implement it. But depending upon

28:00

your group, it might actually be a

28:02

good idea. is instead of just sitting

28:04

down and talking with everyone about

28:06

what you wanna play. And instead sitting

28:08

down and or sending out an email with,

28:10

like, the five adventure paths, you

28:12

wanna run, telling each of your players to put

28:14

them in order. That way, it's not

28:16

like the one quiet player just gets talked

28:18

over by like the three louder players

28:20

or something like that, so that you can find or

28:22

it might even end up being a compromise if you assign,

28:25

like, a point system of, you know, number one, rate

28:27

choices, or something. Yeah.

28:29

you know, rank choice voting basically and just go, okay.

28:31

Well, it's no one's number one choice, but

28:33

it was enough people's number two choices that

28:35

everyone is kind of interested in this

28:38

one. Yeah.

28:38

so

28:39

that if you do have that one very loud

28:41

player that insists on one thing and that

28:43

this thing gonna kinda browbeat or convince

28:45

everyone else around them to play something

28:47

that they're not as interested in. Yeah. And I'd

28:49

I'd say for,

28:50

like, new players because I've run new players through. I've

28:52

been trippath specifically at Rainer Winter. I

28:54

they're friends of mine, and so, like,

28:57

I knew kind of what they would like and so was able

28:59

to kind of give some recommendations around like,

29:01

hey, I think you guys would really enjoy

29:03

rain of winter. It's based on Russian mythology,

29:05

you know, that has some really interesting, like, lower stuff

29:07

and that was playing with two English teachers and

29:10

then translator for Deveved

29:12

students. And so like -- Mhmm. -- that

29:14

they were like, wow. That sounds really cool, you know.

29:16

Whereas another group may be like, man,

29:18

I'm really into Egyptology. And so,

29:20

like, you know, mommy's mask could be a great fit

29:22

for them. So I think if you do know, like, if the players

29:25

maybe don't know themselves, what they're kinda looking

29:27

for, if you know them, then that help

29:29

you guide them where to go. Yeah.

29:31

One

29:31

thing I will also state, and again,

29:34

this doesn't seem like this applies to your group, although

29:36

anyone else that's listening. If

29:38

you're doing an adventure path, do one of the earlier

29:40

adventure paths in the rule set that you're

29:42

using.

29:42

Because the -- Yeah. -- further if

29:44

if you're looking at one e, The further

29:46

you go along, the it's like this is a monster from best series

29:49

four, best series five, best series six, or

29:51

users There's a class that came out in, like,

29:53

ultimate combat, you

29:55

know. Yeah. Again, if it's first

29:57

edition, get used to learning the Magnus

29:59

really well.

29:59

Yeah. Because they love the

30:02

Magnus. Mhmm. Riser the Rindlords is, of course,

30:04

a great option for that. Chris The Crimson Thrones

30:06

anniversary edition is also a great option for

30:08

an early campaign that's not gonna use a

30:10

ton of optional rules. Yeah.

30:12

That's fair. Especially

30:12

if you're just starting, especially with

30:14

like one e, there are

30:16

probably what, like a hundred books

30:19

that you would probably potentially

30:20

need for, like, you know, Tyrons grass, the

30:22

last of winter math and one e, that's I mean, not a

30:24

hundred bucks, but it it is your pulling from

30:27

so many different sources. Yeah.

30:29

That you you have to keep track of all of

30:31

that. And in second edition, funny enough in

30:33

second edition, I've heard a lot of people tell, say, not

30:35

to go with the

30:37

first adventure path. Yeah. Age of

30:39

ashes. Mhmm. because from what

30:41

I understand, it is it very much on the

30:43

heart side. Mhmm. Now that they were

30:45

still getting the balancing act of the difficulty with

30:48

the new cis them down, and

30:49

I've heard it is a it's a bit of

30:51

a meat grinder at points. That's

30:54

understood. So either yeah. Either don't go with

30:56

or go with five party group

30:58

and don't adjust the difficulty. Yeah. because I

31:00

think that's fair because, like, I think rise to

31:03

the room lords I found was

31:05

actually pretty difficult. Like, it

31:07

it had a lot of a lot of difficult things.

31:09

Like, if it had been my first AP,

31:11

it probably would not have survived as

31:13

well as I did. It

31:15

it's It is because it is very old

31:18

school. Yeah. Kirst of

31:20

the Crimson throne, I honestly think, might be

31:22

a better suggestion for most people's first adventure

31:25

path. Yeah. I did love hers. Yeah. It's a pretty

31:27

solid one. And it's an anniversary edition

31:29

and it's a phenomenal adventure path. Half

31:31

life star wall. I was gonna say that his

31:33

book is a juicy. I mean,

31:35

it has some old school moments too. Yeah.

31:37

It it does. It very much does. But I think

31:39

that's the the fun of of

31:41

Pie's adventure So it's like -- Yeah. -- if you have a more

31:43

traditional group, there's an AP for you. If you're

31:45

wanting to do a little bit something different

31:47

and new than you have, those like more

31:49

experimental adventure pass. So again, you can kinda

31:51

curate it to your party. Yeah.

31:53

So Mason goes on to say,

31:55

I have to say one of my favorite things about

31:57

actual play podcast to seeing how interactive

32:00

everyone is is. Your whole

32:02

crew is so engaged in the game mechanics,

32:04

the story, their own character, the

32:06

NPCs, etcetera. I love all

32:08

my friends dearly, but it seems that each of

32:10

my groups always has at least one or two players who

32:12

are there for some of the social aspects,

32:14

but they don't put in the time and effort to

32:16

really get to know the game or get

32:19

into their character or the role play

32:21

or don't pay attention. Most of the time it's but

32:23

sometimes it does bother me as a GM when

32:25

they aren't engaged when I put so much effort

32:27

into the story and preparing everything.

32:30

How did you all come together? Was it luck that

32:32

you all came together as engaged players, or

32:34

did it take time to find a full crew

32:36

that is invested? If so, how

32:38

do you help get players more invested in the game

32:41

so everyone has a richer experience?

32:43

Okay. Well, Heather

32:45

and I known each since high school. Yeah. At

32:47

this point, we've known each other longer than we

32:49

haven't, and that makes me feel so old.

32:51

Anyway, we we started we started

32:53

gaming together back we were sixteen. So that was,

32:55

like, twenty years ago. Oh my god. Why'd

32:57

you say that? I'm gonna go

33:00

die

33:00

of Well, it was funny when it

33:02

was three point o at first come out.

33:04

And so we were playing some three point o

33:06

as far as the dungeons and dragons was concerned at

33:08

three point five and all the rest. a white wolf.

33:11

then Heather ended up working in a

33:13

comic book shop with Ross. Yes.

33:15

Yo. And so so Ross kinda tacked

33:17

on. We again, Heather and I had a game group

33:19

back then that eventually just kinda fell apart. And

33:21

then Ross came up and, you

33:23

know, from a I suppose

33:25

that

33:25

expanded you know, adding

33:27

Ross into the gaming group. Ross was the only

33:29

the only survivor in front of

33:31

me various people. It sounds like I like a

33:33

lemon dated the other people or something. Trust

33:36

survived the challenge. I mean,

33:38

I'm dying to die and alive.

33:40

I volunteered his tribute and --

33:42

Yeah. -- deaf. And then Rachel

33:45

and I started dating after after

33:47

Rachel got back from her trip to Korea

33:49

years later on, and then

33:52

Rachel will just Rachel has been friends. Yes.

33:54

It's high school. We we have

33:55

also been friends

33:57

longer than We

33:59

haven't. Yeah. And it's it's, like, sophomore year

34:02

for me. And then

34:03

I started dating Jordan

34:06

after I

34:06

got married. scared dumb luck on my part.

34:09

Yes, George. Just off in the ear.

34:11

Literally, it was just all on my own and

34:13

then started dating Jess and then fell in with

34:15

this group. Yeah. by

34:18

demand of fueling through space that gets caught

34:20

in the gravitational field of a larger

34:22

-- Yes. -- massive nerdom. And

34:24

then we

34:26

press Gankton. But I I remember it was, like, one of these, like, I think

34:28

Jess was, like, broaching me. He's, like, hey, do you wanna you wanna

34:30

try out Path Finder? It's kinda like DND. And

34:32

I was, like,

34:34

do I? because I'd always wanted to play growing up, but

34:36

I never knew anybody who played. So I was like, I

34:38

will totally try to play a few times in high school

34:40

with, like, beginners, boxes, and

34:41

things. But DND,

34:44

I think or just any tabletop

34:46

RPG. I believe Rick was the one he

34:48

told me. It's kinda like drugs you

34:50

almost need to

34:51

know someone. You gotta know a guy. Yeah. I might have just left

34:54

Yeah. III

34:56

mean, that's true. But I think a

34:58

lot of

35:00

how people approach the game and

35:01

how people play the game comes from

35:03

their first game master that they do

35:05

a long

35:05

term thing with. Because then you get used

35:08

to that style and

35:10

that's how you're used to playing. Yep.

35:12

Yeah. If a lot of your experience is at your

35:14

local game store and it's just, you

35:16

know, quick scenarios of

35:17

then you down with a role play group. It's kind of a

35:20

different environment.

35:20

So I I think a lot

35:22

of it, like I said, has to do with who taught you

35:24

to play the

35:24

game and what was their style. And

35:27

-- Yeah. -- that's kinda what we do want out of

35:29

the game. Yeah. We're all story people.

35:31

So we don't have a

35:33

story.

35:33

Yeah. Yeah. Jessica

35:34

raises an extraordinarily valid point. You get out of

35:36

it what you put into it and you have to know

35:39

what you want out of it.

35:42

So I if your players are a group that goes, we

35:44

just want to play a game and it doesn't matter

35:46

to us if it's Path

35:48

Finder

35:49

or if it's betrayal

35:51

at house on the hill or, you know,

35:53

pandemic or whatever. It's like we just wanna

35:55

play a game. That's a little bit different

35:57

than saying, well, I want to tell a

35:59

story

35:59

that evokes real emotions from

36:02

everyone and gets these deep

36:04

feelings Neither one of those are

36:06

incorrect ways to play the game. No. I'm not I'm not there's wrong

36:08

with just approaching it as a

36:10

we're gonna kill the monsters and get better

36:12

loot to kill more monsters. There's nothing wrong

36:14

with that. somewhat

36:16

terrible of me. So I'm gonna preface it

36:18

with that. But there's a reason why Heather

36:20

and Ross are

36:21

some of

36:24

the few people that I've carried on in like the gaming group

36:26

that I have over time

36:28

because I have had to ask people to leave

36:30

the table. because they make

36:32

other people uncomfortable or things like that. Yeah. I

36:34

have sometimes just had to say it's like, look, I I

36:36

think maybe a different group would be better for

36:38

you because you're not

36:40

interested anytime that you're not rolling a dive truck

36:42

kill something. And that's not the story that I

36:44

wanna tell. Yeah. Fortunately, in the

36:46

case with Jess Jordan and Rachel, all

36:48

three of them were already interested in

36:50

the story element of it.

36:52

I'll admit

36:52

a certain degree of reticence whenever I was like,

36:54

okay, yeah, Rachel, I was like, I'll I'll

36:56

her to play at everything else. And then she's like, oh, by the way, can Jessica join. He's like, oh,

36:58

no, Jessica. Oh, and also this Jordan guy. I'm like,

37:00

yeah, just a random dude. She's

37:03

dancing unnoted x factor there. I'm

37:06

how long Jess and I had been dating, but it was

37:08

not very long. Yeah.

37:11

Unfortunately, he's a giant

37:13

nerd, so it worked out. I will

37:16

acknowledge that we are extremely

37:18

lucky to have met each

37:20

other and become

37:22

the friends and everything that we are and have this kind of game gaming

37:24

group. A lot of people struggle to find

37:26

groups that they get that they can have a

37:28

long term

37:30

game with. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, we are we are extremely

37:32

fortunate. Yep. Yep.

37:33

So I think someone in answer to the question, it

37:36

is one part luck and it is

37:38

one part taking time to

37:40

find a full crew that is

37:42

invested. Yeah. Kind of picking and

37:44

selecting. I've I've always heard I've always heard the term

37:46

coaching used where

37:48

it's a a game master that will go to

37:50

like tables at like

37:52

cons or tables at your local gaming

37:54

store and then find the player there that

37:56

works for them. and then, like,

37:58

take them off to the side at some point and be, like,

37:59

together a home game. Yeah.

38:02

I would think about that. It's the whole

38:04

idea of, like, a player coming

38:06

into Coach other players for their home game. I've heard that terminology used before.

38:08

It's like the merchant from resident evil

38:10

four. You know, what you buy

38:12

in. Yeah. got

38:15

rare players on sales

38:18

trainer. Yes. As

38:20

far as helping players get more invested, first

38:22

off, figure out whether or not they want to be

38:24

more like, if it's just a port game to them. It might be just

38:26

something you sit

38:27

down and go, hey, I've noticed you're

38:29

not really engaged at at this part of

38:30

the story. Is there something, you

38:34

know, we could do differently, you know, what do you like about the game? Just talk to

38:36

your players, you know, if you feel like there's a

38:38

disconnect. Communication is a huge part

38:40

of these kind of games and

38:44

know I have social

38:45

anxiety. Like, if I like, the live shows,

38:47

you guys don't even wanna know how stressed

38:49

I am during those. So

38:51

I get that sometimes those are that's a hard thing to do,

38:53

but it really will help your game

38:55

if you sit down and ask those kind of

38:57

questions. Like, what do you want out of this? Why, you

38:59

know, what parts do you like? What parts you not

39:01

like. Would you rather I approach this

39:04

differently? Just that way, everything's out on the

39:06

table. And you don't feel like your

39:08

players are

39:10

unengaged when maybe that's

39:12

not the case. Yes.

39:13

Even putting a questionnaire to them is a

39:15

necessarily a bad thing. You know, just if you're if

39:17

you're not comfortable sitting down and talking them face

39:19

to face, if that causes you anxiety, just send out a

39:21

questionnaires like, you know, are you interested in

39:23

these things? And again, they get to

39:26

the question of, is this the right

39:28

game for you? If if you're not

39:30

interested in the side of the game, there's no wrong

39:32

way necessarily to play path finder as long as

39:34

everyone is having fun.

39:36

But sometimes it is that problem when you

39:38

have six people all sit down, like we

39:40

even run into that sometimes as a group. We're

39:42

all six of us sit down and some of us might

39:44

want something out of a story that the rest of

39:46

us don't Mm-mm. It happens. If it's a player that's I'm

39:48

never interested in having a character romance, both

39:50

then that's that's you. I mean, maybe

39:52

that player is

39:54

just not interested in romance personally or maybe they're

39:56

just not comfortable with trying to do a

39:58

romance scene while four other people are sitting there

40:00

listening to them, trying to carry on this, like,

40:03

loving

40:03

scene between them and the game master pretending

40:05

to be the first person. Or you're like being

40:07

raped sure we had characters in a relationship

40:09

and would be hurting with each other in

40:11

front like, her husband. So that's

40:14

an awkward 1II already have to deal

40:16

with all the fan food

40:18

constantly shipping Rachel and Ross' characters. I'm

40:20

very comfortable with my relationship. And

40:22

we all know it's just in

40:26

the game. That's what you know. It's just but sometimes it is kind of a

40:28

hilarious situation afterwards when you're

40:30

thinking about it. It's like, hey, I just spent an hour and

40:32

a half learning with Rachel, and

40:34

it's hilarious. You know, one

40:36

small side

40:36

tangent. The only time I tried

40:38

to play, like, romance my own husband,

40:40

we did it by both

40:43

being Vikings and competing. Okay. It was funny.

40:45

It was fun to check. I I won't

40:47

name names, but I did have

40:50

two previous players that

40:51

were at a relationship. that

40:54

it really bothered one of them that

40:56

the other players' characters

40:58

always hated his character. Like, they

41:00

would never do a romance. They would just always

41:03

always hated -- Yep. --

41:05

his character. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the last

41:07

thing that I just throw out is it's

41:09

quite possible that if your players

41:11

are not invested, As much as I hate to

41:13

even say this, also decide whether or not it's Path

41:16

Finder. It's quite possible that they might be

41:18

more invested if they

41:20

were playing vampire, or if they were playing blades in the

41:22

dark, or if they were playing another

41:24

game. Personally, I absolutely love path finder,

41:26

but I do understand that for

41:28

some people, the fantasy setting

41:30

isn't what they're interested. Maybe they're more interested in

41:32

starfighter. Yeah. It might just

41:34

be that the setting or even the setting

41:36

specifically for that adventure. If they're not interested

41:38

in the rise of the room lord's setting and

41:40

that's what's causing them not to be engaged,

41:42

maybe they would be more interested in something like

41:44

Hell's rebels.

41:46

Yeah. path

41:46

finder is of all about relationships at the table. Yeah. It's

41:48

the same way as, like, you know, your personal

41:50

relationships, professional relationships. Nobody's

41:52

a mind reader. So, like, it

41:55

may be kind of an awkward conversation, but

41:57

it's worth having even just to

41:59

know, like, is

42:00

it something that you can fix or you're willing

42:02

to fix or is it something that, like, is

42:04

it a comfort level? Like, they're just like, hey, man. I just, you know, I'm not

42:06

comfortable yet. Like, give me a couple of weeks and

42:09

I'll be fine. I mean, that could be

42:11

the case too. It's exactly I think what we've all kind

42:13

of come back around to is is talk to them, make sure you

42:16

listen to them, and then

42:18

implement what would aid them in

42:20

in the

42:22

jointness. sometimes it honestly might also just be distraction. I've noticed

42:24

that with so many groups and seen that with so many things

42:26

where it's if you have the one person

42:30

checking out their phone until their turn comes back around, you know,

42:32

decide whether or

42:32

not we never went fully there, but I did

42:34

I think I I did ask everyone to silence phones

42:37

a lot of times even before you did the

42:39

recordings. And Rick would call us out if we were on it

42:41

too much too. Like, not in a mean way, but just be

42:44

like, hey. Well,

42:45

I would literally just go. If someone is looking

42:47

at their phone and doing something and, you know, we

42:50

during a lot of times, where people were dealing

42:52

with sick family members or

42:54

difficult situations, if I notice someone's on

42:56

their phone a lot, I just kinda stop and just go, like, do

42:58

do you need to take this? Like, do you need to step

43:00

away and call this person? Or do

43:02

we need a moment? Yeah. That's just being respectful because we do all have busy

43:04

lives. Yeah. We have lives outside

43:06

the game. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, it

43:08

is, I think, understandable for everyone to go.

43:10

While we've

43:12

set a side this time to do this thing as

43:14

a friend group. Yeah. So

43:16

asking someone to give

43:16

you their full attention, I don't

43:19

think is is rude. I'm

43:21

sure that both of our teachers can understand the difficulties of

43:24

getting people's full attention. But at least I'm not

43:26

dealing with thirty people at a time. I mean, I

43:28

I literally ran an entire adventure path

43:30

where I learned that I

43:32

needed to let the players do their

43:34

their interpersonal talking for the first

43:36

hour because otherwise they would

43:38

be throughout the game, they'd be, oh,

43:40

I tell you about such and such and such thing, you know? And so I just learned to, like, you know, let them

43:42

go for the first, like, hour, get it out of their system, and

43:45

then we would focus and we play. You know, a little quicker things

43:47

that you use for dogs, like, back

43:51

button. Extension back here.

43:53

Extension

43:53

back here.

43:54

Anyway alright.

43:58

Mason continues. Last question question

44:00

for the day, with the whole group

44:02

transitioning from PF1 for mummy's mask

44:04

and tiring scraps to PF2 for Hell's rebels,

44:06

Was everyone excited about the new system, or was there any resistance to changing

44:09

systems? I've been hoping to convert one

44:11

of my ongoing games from DND4E

44:13

to PF24E But

44:16

One out of my three players doesn't want to take the time to

44:18

learn a new system and without a third player,

44:21

the adventure doesn't work as well.

44:24

So I've had to hold off for the time being. Seems like in the TTRPG

44:26

community, there's lots of resistance to

44:28

changing or trying out new systems. So I was

44:30

curious how your group handled it, especially for

44:34

the podcast. I was nervous as a my

44:36

pathfinder announced to e.

44:38

Heather Heather specifically has

44:40

been, like, when Star Finder

44:42

came out, she's like, uh-uh. No. The f two

44:44

came out. Uh-uh. No. Well, that's because

44:46

I went through

44:48

some really DND tends to do crazy

44:50

shenanigans when they change

44:52

to a new system. Like, not just, okay, the

44:54

rules are different. Okay, the whole entire setting

44:58

is different. now. It's been a hundred years, and people

45:00

in the world acknowledge the

45:02

rules change. Magic is

45:04

different now

45:04

because of this earth shattering event,

45:07

the time of roles. And

45:10

so mine wasn't so much

45:11

the new rules. I was afraid

45:13

that glaring, the setting was

45:15

going to

45:16

implode. Yes. Mhmm. Then

45:18

the things we like so much about Galerian.

45:20

Okay. So how big's the time skip?

45:22

What happened? Are they gonna have to reprint

45:24

all of the lore books? Yeah. That's that's

45:26

like why okay. So all the lore books are a

45:28

hundred years out of date now. So all my Path

45:30

Finder one e stuff is useless because none of that

45:33

stuff is relevant to two e anymore at all,

45:35

like, not even the lore. Yep. So

45:37

that was that's always my

45:39

hesitance when I hear of

45:41

a, like, an addition update. It's not

45:43

even so much the rules. It's

45:45

the are you acknowledging that things are different?

45:47

And in Path Finder, no, they didn't. There was

45:49

no rules changed as far as the people

45:51

are concerned. Nothing is different.

45:53

Yes. It's just you know, things

45:55

continue on like normal. Mhmm. Heather and and I believe Ross as

45:58

well are all veterans of the

46:00

edition wars.

46:02

You know? We were we remember we remember

46:04

a d and d to three point nine First

46:07

class corporal, Ross Goggin, of the I learned

46:09

to play -- Yeah. -- a

46:11

d and d. Yeah. And obviously, you know, we remember the

46:13

three point five to four point o, d and

46:15

d, considering that, you know, we tried

46:17

four point o, didn't like it, and that's why

46:19

we were in Pathway. Yeah.

46:21

The way

46:21

they streamlined everything,

46:24

I just I wasn't a fan, and that's

46:26

that is what took us to Path Finder, especially

46:28

because, you know, a lot of the

46:30

people that work that worked at paizo, some of

46:33

them still do, were on the,

46:35

you

46:35

know, Dungeon and Dragon magazine. So it

46:37

was people we knew -- Yes. -- so it's

46:39

like we know we like their

46:41

stuff. let's just give they've made this new setting because a

46:43

lot of them were let go from wizards when

46:45

they redid the rules for four e. So I

46:47

was

46:47

like, well, let's just follow the people we like

46:50

with rules that our Path

46:52

Finder 1E, a lot of people called it DND three

46:54

point seven five because they took

46:55

the three point five rules and even

46:57

tweaked them a little

47:00

So it was a system we were already mostly familiar with. It was just

47:02

really, okay, we're not in the forgotten realms

47:04

anymore. Let's learn this

47:06

new world. fun short

47:08

anecdote here. Again, I was so

47:10

invested in d and d three point

47:12

five that when we first

47:13

started to make the transition because

47:16

I loved dudgeon magazine so much. I ran the

47:18

first four books of Rise of the

47:20

Roomlords in fit room.

47:22

Mhmm. Yeah.

47:23

there Yeah. I remember that.

47:24

Yeah. And then, eventually, I went, well, I'm I'm getting

47:26

tired of, like, creating all these new places

47:28

in Feyron. And also, this glaring setting's

47:30

kind of intriguing me. So that's why I

47:32

decided to make the heart. Honestly, it's because I couldn't figure out

47:35

a good place to put Corvosa as far

47:37

as doing Corvosa. I was just like, you know

47:39

what? Let's just let's just make it

47:42

Corvosa. don't wanna have to explain why water deep suddenly has a king.

47:44

Anyway Yeah. I

47:46

think it's somebody who hasn't

47:49

had to transition that much. my

47:51

feeling is a lot of players. We we invest a

47:53

ton in this system. Right? We buy the books.

47:55

We're learning the rules, you

47:58

know, especially in very complex systems like you have in in path under first

47:59

edition or or d and d. You

48:02

put a lot of work

48:03

into it, and then you

48:05

know, when the addition changes, you have to kinda

48:07

relearn everything. And so there's that that

48:09

initial resistance to change that's just like, oh, man,

48:11

I don't wanna have to go relearn

48:14

everything. Like, I I know how combat maneuvers work now. I don't wanna have

48:16

to relearn the combat maneuver system, you

48:18

know. And like we mentioned

48:19

previously, it's easier when you know

48:22

a guy But the problem

48:24

is when there's nobody

48:24

who knows the rules and it's

48:27

everybody learning together, it's

48:30

really really rocky. when you're

48:32

first learning a new addition.

48:34

There's a reason why FTP wasn't

48:36

one of the

48:36

actual plays that launched with a h

48:39

dash's campaign the moment it came out. is

48:41

we wanted to have a grasp on the rules before

48:43

we started trying to do this. That was that

48:45

was our first time. Yeah. not

48:48

just gonna jump into it because, you know,

48:50

we have this reputation we built up. So we're

48:52

not we're Doesn't

48:53

mean we're not gonna get the wrong because I'm still

48:55

learning these. But Yeah. Yeah. everybody

48:58

makes mistakes. We're not

49:00

perfect. But we knew the rules well enough when

49:02

Rick started running Hell's rebels 2E that

49:04

there wasn't

49:06

those fifteen minute pauses in gameplay while everyone

49:08

paged through the core rulebook and tried

49:10

to make sense of what this rule

49:12

meant. Well, and for me, it's an

49:14

advantage that you know,

49:15

Justin Jordan and Ross all

49:17

have a firm concrete grip on the

49:19

the Pathfinder two rules. And so I

49:21

can occasionally default back on that. While

49:23

I've thoroughly read through there, I guess getting back

49:25

to the this idea of resistance changing

49:28

systems. When I set out, I as the game

49:30

master, when I did my best to learn the rules, and

49:32

the only thing I as my players to do is know

49:34

how to play your class. And I think

49:36

that that takes a lot of the burden off of

49:38

the players. If you as a game

49:40

master willing to take that burden on yourself to learn all

49:42

of the other rules like you don't need to know how the death and

49:44

dying rules work, I'll explain that when you start dying. I still don't

49:46

know how the death and dying

49:47

will work. I'm like, why? I don't Oh, you're a

49:49

little lazy guy. I just need to have an attack, Chesbury

49:51

enough. So Yeah. I

49:54

feel boss. so I know how

49:56

that works. I've worked that idea that I did before

49:57

just because Victoria's gone down

49:59

a

49:59

future. Yep.

50:01

Yeah. As the

50:02

as the chaotic person at the table, I love learning

50:04

new rule systems. I think I'm always

50:06

I'm always buying them. First of all, I have

50:08

a bunch of rule systems on the reviews. But

50:11

then I'm occasionally like, let's just play. Like, I think I

50:14

ran a session of, like,

50:16

supernatural RPG, which, first of

50:18

all, exists for my parents and Jordan Once and then, like,

50:20

I've run a little bit of 5VI

50:22

did a really wild

50:24

conversion of rhyme of the Frost Maiden to

50:26

Second Edition.

50:28

there's just a lot of, like I think I of

50:30

this group, I am the as the voice of chaos. The

50:32

most excited to just jump into

50:34

stuff and see how it works.

50:36

as probably the most lawful voice in this group. I

50:39

agree with Jessica, actually. I know

50:41

the rule set for Blades of Dark. I've never run

50:43

a game, but I know the rules.

50:46

for blades in the dark. I watch I watch for five e

50:48

distributors. Like, I'm kinda

50:50

curious about this. Well, distributors. I'm

50:53

I'm interested in it to learn more about the system

50:55

because I like to I like to know

50:58

the strings that control

51:00

the system. and see whether or not there is something interesting from another

51:02

game system that I can

51:04

implement or even just take away an

51:06

understanding of the rules

51:08

to go I think it would be

51:10

really fun if I could find a way to implement, like, flashback mechanics or something else that fit into

51:12

-- Exactly. -- into another system.

51:14

But at the same time, it's

51:17

there is always that reticent of I'm sure Jordan can kind

51:19

of agree with this with his computer

51:22

knowledge. There's always that reticence to touch the

51:24

code in the event

51:25

that it breaks

51:27

something. No. Yeah. My god. What

51:29

have I done? It may be terrible,

51:31

but, you know, it's a game you're trying to I know what,

51:33

you know what? We haven't played things that III

51:36

just didn't like. like We didn't

51:38

like that very much. We we didn't like him and he was

51:40

like, oh, you know. setting. We didn't like the

51:42

rules. I love the

51:44

lore of that place. But, yeah, the rules just work like, thing it

51:46

is, like, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So,

51:48

like, if you don't try it, you may have to

51:50

put a little work into it, but if you

51:52

don't ever try it, then you always

51:54

kinda have that thing in the back of your head, like,

51:56

maybe the grass is greener.

51:58

Or, you know, at least you you reaffirm

51:59

that you, you know, you do really

52:02

resonate with, like, say Path Finder one

52:04

e for instance, because I can go to

52:06

like DND and be like, why are there no prices for

52:08

things? Yeah. You're gonna run into these

52:10

growing pains every

52:12

years, I mean, the fact that Pathfinder ran for an

52:14

entire decade without an addition change,

52:16

was insane, is is

52:18

pretty impressive. Yeah.

52:20

And obviously, d and d one or one

52:22

d and d, I can't remember exactly how it's

52:24

phrase is Yeah. I'm memorizing that. Is it

52:26

one d and d? Yeah. Yeah. It will

52:28

probably well, again, d and d five

52:30

was d and d next when they launched it. And then

52:32

people just kept calling it five e, and

52:34

eventually that just stuck. So I'm wondering, eventually, people probably just gonna keep calling this

52:36

sixty long enough that it's gonna be sixty or

52:38

five point five. No matter what game

52:40

system you play, inevitably

52:42

you're going to run into an addition war

52:44

because there are still people fighting the pathfinder

52:46

one versus pathfinder two addition war

52:48

right now. Yeah. But just so

52:50

long. There are things that Second Edition really

52:52

helped me love about First

52:54

Edition. Yep. It's it's that whole

52:56

vacation idea of, like, sometimes when you go

52:58

on a vacation, you're appreciate your house or your apartment or or you live more

53:00

because, like, you don't take the time to

53:02

appreciate that stuff in your everyday life. So, like,

53:04

trying out

53:06

a new system is a good way to be like, oh, man, I really appreciate how they

53:08

implemented the three action economy in TUI,

53:10

you know, or something like that. You

53:12

know? Well, it it gets back to the

53:14

same thing of you'll also hear the

53:16

addition wars between systems or the

53:18

system wars basically at that

53:20

point where People will talk

53:22

about pathfinder two stole these

53:24

things from DND4

53:26

and DND5 or conversations that are happening in. Now

53:28

that DND1 is coming out and

53:30

people are saying, look at all these things that they're

53:32

stealing from Path Finder too. It's like,

53:34

yeah, everyone's just absorbing these different

53:36

rule sets. Like, I wouldn't be surprised

53:38

if d and d one eventually adopts a three action And and

53:40

if it makes every game better, but

53:42

one of the things that

53:44

I hate the most is people I

53:47

play D and D and Path Finder sucks. And the other thing the opposite

53:49

way too, I play Path Finder and D and

53:51

D sucks. That's no. We're

53:54

all We're

53:54

all super comfortable with. Who cares? As

53:56

long

53:56

as you're having fun and you're in this

53:58

space, you know what

53:59

I mean? I love

54:01

the fact that peso is putting out the adventure pass sets

54:04

for other editions because I want people to

54:06

enjoy these stories. And

54:08

so the fact that five e players gonna

54:10

need to play King Baker and Abomination

54:12

Vault is great. Mhmm. It goes back to the

54:14

whole idea of this is somewhat of

54:16

a small site tangent, every game becoming souls

54:18

like, where a lot of people like, why why

54:20

does God of War, the twenty eighteen God

54:22

of War have the soul's like

54:24

controls. Why is GoSafshima

54:26

using the front soft soul's like

54:28

controls? And it's like, well, eventually just

54:31

determine light attack, heavy attack,

54:33

block button, having those on your triggers and

54:35

everything else was just a universal way

54:37

to run a control so that

54:39

I can play Elaine, and then I can immediately jedi fall

54:41

in order, and the controls are the same. And I don't have to learn

54:43

a new control scheme every time.

54:46

Just enjoy a

54:48

different story. And to be perfectly honest, I don't know, we've gone a little bit off

54:50

topic on that. But if the addition change

54:52

is necessary for you to have better

54:54

rules than

54:56

do it, If you don't have a problem with the rules

54:58

that you use, then stick with the

55:00

game that you're playing. There are literally people out

55:02

there

55:02

who still play a d and DELI

55:05

just think the story. And then that would that's her that's her jam. I mean,

55:07

if I had invested that much time figuring Facko out, I would

55:09

quickly never

55:12

change. I

55:14

was playing the Waldorf Gate special editions on my

55:16

Switch not too long ago, and I was

55:18

like, why is my AC going

55:20

easy going to

55:21

down? It took me a minute to even remember that

55:23

was how that worked. Yeah. You'll never hit me. I have a

55:25

negative twelve AC. No.

55:28

I have three and one fourth attacks.

55:31

I'm like, what? I'm a murder machine.

55:34

I do like the idea of weapon speeds, but

55:36

that's notwithstanding.

55:37

So Mason

55:39

signs off, thanks so much. You all rock. Keep finding that path

55:41

wherever it takes you. Long lived

55:43

the Silver Raven. Thank

55:46

you. Our very long

55:48

answers helped you today.

55:50

Those were good questions because we could talk

55:52

about them for a long time. It's true.

55:54

And, yes, long live the Silver Ravens. Yeah. It'll

55:56

be tripped down by the

55:59

time I've

55:59

done. It's alright. We can have a long one every once

56:02

in a while.

56:04

It's fun. Sounds good. So that's it for us

56:06

this week. Tune back

56:08

in soon for another

56:10

rousing episode of

56:12

Hell's rebels. Very

56:13

investigate a murder. Yes. When

56:15

we investigate kidnapping's murders. Oh my.

56:17

And until next time. Bye, Pat

56:19

Volk. Good luck, everybody. Good

56:21

luck out there. eye. On the

56:24

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56:28

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56:30

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56:32

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56:34

and are used with permission. Find the Path Ventures

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