0:03

You're listening to the Finding Zen Career podcast.

0:05

I'm Pete Newsome, and my guest today is Dr Gary Montu, who has more than 25 years of experience leading teams in the technology space.

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I was excited to have him on today for many reasons, but one in particular is because he's known for hiring inexperienced professionals and mentoring them into becoming leaders.

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It's a rare thing in today's space and something that I think is really important for our listeners, so I had a lot of funds during this conversation and I think you'll have a lot of fun listening to it too.

0:32

Dr Gary Montu, thanks so much for joining me today.

0:35

How are you today?

0:36

I'm doing great Pete. How are you doing?

0:38

I'm doing wonderful on this Friday afternoon. It's a pleasure to do this.

0:41

We've been talking about it for, I think, over a year now.

0:46

Yes, over a year. But you know what All good things come to those who wait right.

0:50

And, like you said, my ayes may have been ringing a couple of weeks ago and we're just talking about stuff like that.

0:56

So glad we have the opportunity to connect today.

0:59

This is awesome.

1:00

Well, thank you for making the time, and before we get too much into talking about leadership, which is going to be the bulk of our topic today, I have to ask about the guitars in the background.

1:10

Do you play?

1:13

So on this side there's a bass, electric guitar and acoustic guitar and I tried my hand.

1:20

All my kids are musicians right, and I tried my hand at it when I was seven, then started again until in my fifties.

1:28

It's based on learning them. I'm actually taking formal lessons on Monday nights to learn them.

1:33

I grabbed that bass guitar and I just switched it up and I tried to be more creative and then I come back at that thing.

1:40

That was probably a stumbling. So there are two bass guitar probably about five months I've been practicing.

1:46

One day I will open my garage and play in this trip in neighbors.

1:51

We'll give you a little more time and then I'll have you come back and then you can put on a show for us, maybe in the next episode.

1:58

I'll put you on the spot, I'll put it back down from that challenge.

2:01

It gives me the zeal to go ahead and try to get better.

2:04

Thank, you.

2:05

There you go. Well, let's talk about more of your background, because you're a lifelong student, it sounds like.

2:11

So start from go back in time and tell me how you got to where you are today.

2:17

I like what you said a lifelong student.

2:19

I have a martial arts teacher that always said he's an excellent beginner.

2:24

Right.

2:25

Okay, I like that and I hold true to that.

2:27

So I grew up in the island of Trinidad, right in the Caribbean, but I was born in New Jersey and my background has been I wanted to be a doctor gynecologist to be more specific and I got into biology and realized that dissections were not for me.

2:43

So I moved more into the engineering business field and so I lead a leader team on healthcare industry.

2:51

But I've had a lot of jobs either in FinTech.

2:56

I've managed teams in Philippines, india, countries I've had the APEC region and me lots of that and so the one thing I've found is that the more you meet people you realize, the more you really, and countries, the more you don't know.

3:10

I embarked and, going back in the school, got my master's recently.

3:14

Last year I got my doctorate in healthcare administration and that's the field I'm in, and so I did become a doctor one way or another, right, and so I love the interaction with those teams and those are professionals and it's all about community.

3:28

For me, it's all about making that difference and representation right At the heart, right.

3:33

Sometimes you don't know what you can be if you don't see anyone that looks like you or speaks like you.

3:39

So I really appreciate that in terms of being one to step forth for education, step forth in the healthcare field, and that brings.

3:47

That speaks a lot of volumes.

3:49

More so, Absolutely.

3:52

Action goes a lot longer, farther than talk.

3:54

We know that right. Absolutely, yes.

3:56

How did you have time for this?

3:59

You're a father, you're. You know, you're.

4:02

I know how busy you are in your leadership role at work.

4:05

Where did you find the time?

4:07

So you made the time right. So, just like, just like in studies, I've got times where things would use Sunday night 1159.

4:14

And you have to like, like yourself, to do this program.

4:17

We had to inform our team, our loved ones.

4:20

Okay, I need this time, because if I can't get my time to play basic, I can't get my time to go take my walks.

4:27

How can I bring my whole self to you, whether at family?

4:32

So you have to make that time, because one thing that COVID taught us is to take time for yourself.

4:37

Right, stay home more.

4:40

Mental health was not something you didn't speak about anymore.

4:44

A lot of things came to the forefront and realized we had to take that time.

4:48

So for me, it's about balance. I've been in martial arts all my life since age eight and so I've always found time to, and even when I coached the soccer, I've always found time to plan to.

5:03

It gives me joy. It gives me joy, it gives me that balance and whatnot.

5:09

And some people will say they don't have time, but then yet they start my Starbucks every day, or sometimes they're watching Netflix all the time, and if you take out those things, you'll find a lot of time in the day to do it right.

5:22

So it's about balance, but most of what I think, too, for work, it's about developing your bench strength right, giving people the opportunity and we met and talked about this on one of your associates people the opportunity to exceed and to give them to excel.

5:35

Give them the opportunity to see what they can or cannot do, and not for them to fail and hit the ground, but for them to fail and used to be right alongside them to encourage them to keep going.

5:48

That's what I do with my kids. That's what I do with all my students, all my soccer players, right After a bad game, you don't bash them, you know you.

5:55

You call them what didn't go well, but then you encourage them to come back right.

5:59

Yes, you know the kids, you, but you want to be open, you want to be honest with them, and those things give me the energy to move forward.

6:06

That's how I look at my team.

6:07

Well there's. There's so many similarities. You can draw that between parenting and coaching and applying at work, and I, as you're, as you're speaking.

6:17

It reminds me of a story I may have shared with you previously when I coached basketball so you coached soccer.

6:23

Basketball was my thing with with my three boys, and after the I'd gone through it with my oldest I.

6:29

I was a lot wiser. I learned a lot through that experience, and when young kids play basketball, they don't really hold them to the rules.

6:37

They let them run with the ball. You know, travel and double dribble and things that once you get to an older age, you'll, you'll.

6:45

The referee will blow the whistle and and, of course, to penalty.

6:48

Well, I decided that I was going to adhere to to the rules right from the start with my kindergartners and and I quickly realized by letting the kids know that this is where the bar was.

6:58

It was high. I was going to place it higher than than even the referee was going to place it.

7:03

At that point they could rise to the challenge, and so parents would come up to me and say why are you being so strict?

7:10

I'd go to the referee before the game and say I want you to call everything, if my, if my player travels, or double dribbles.

7:16

You blow the whistle every time. No breaks.

7:18

Well, by the time my guys were in third grade, they looked like the Harlem Globetrotters out there compared to the other team and it's always stuck with me.

7:28

I mean, I kind of backed into that. It was no great foresight on my part, but I realized that people rise to the occasion and you give them that opportunity.

7:36

But if you keep the bar low, well, there's nothing to rise to.

7:40

So, as you're talking, I think martial arts, which I you know, it's something in my life I've never done, but I have a feeling the lessons from martial arts are so applicable to success in life.

7:51

Quickly. So when I look at my so again, I've been doing it since age eight and I've I've taught in different parts of the world right, I thought of a team go to different parts, compete.

8:01

I've taught in Australia alongside my teacher and seminars and stuff like that People who didn't practice the same art but they recognize what we're about.

8:09

And just to back up a little bit.

8:12

So when I had a dojo over in Tampa, kids started from age three or four and and and their their job was to sit down and shut up and I'll say just like that to anyone and cross your legs, because when they go back to school, that's what I want them to do.

8:27

Right, well, did we have fun?

8:29

Absolutely, we had a lot of fun, a lot of tours.

8:33

Some of our trips was to go down to Tampa airport, go on to the Monorails.

8:39

They never done that before. You know. We split up into teams just so they could understand college.

8:44

You know where Armstrong is, where different things are to learn.

8:48

But the biggest thing in the school was how you put your shoes.

8:52

When you took your shoes off, you didn't just kick it off.

8:54

Your shoes had a place. If you were white belt, they went here.

8:58

If you were purple belt, they went here. If you were black belt, they went here.

9:01

So from a very, very early age, do you know?

9:04

Every Friday, my kids five years and up would fight to see who could go ensure that all the shoes will line up for their sensei Right.

9:15

And so today, today, I help out a friend of mine here over in St Cloud, and that's a you know some.

9:22

I I say I joke, but I'm serious, right, I said I will not come on the floor and teach if these shoes are not fixed.

9:28

And so they know, every time they go, do that. But to you, from early, set the bar, and I can tell you right now the school is doing really, really well, even better because they really really have that.

9:39

It teaches the same way. He grew up in that same environment of discipline.

9:43

We will have fun, we will smile, we will celebrate big.

9:46

But this is a sport, this is the way of life for some, and so let's, let's do that.

9:51

So it's very, very same thing with work, Set the expectation, how you going to dress and work, how you going to show up at work.

9:57

Eight is eight. Eight o'clock is eight o'clock, right, nine o'clock is nine o'clock.

10:02

Your project's being due now, at a particular timeframe.

10:06

You're at a negotiate upfront, not when it's running late, so those expectations have to be set.

10:11

Discipline, right. I mean, you said it.

10:13

That's the word that I think you could apply again to so many aspects of life.

10:19

Why do you think that's so hard to come by today?

10:23

What has changed? If you look throughout success and human history, there's always discipline tied to it.

10:30

Consistency, right and discipline.

10:32

I think it's lacking today.

10:35

I think that's a struggle for a lot of young people and maybe society as a whole right now.

10:40

Why do you I mean, do you agree with that?

10:43

And if so, why do you think that is?

10:46

There's a change, I think. You know, just keeping it very, very open and honest.

10:51

When we look at the workforce a couple of decades ago, right, the folks that we reported to were mostly male, right, and their heritage or their the folks before them, were probably military type folks.

11:06

Right, I wasn't allowed to really be in the workforce as much as they should have been or could have been at that time, and so the structure was one of lack of nurturing, one of like you do this, don't ask any questions, type of thing.

11:19

So now, I think, with the diverse workforce that we have and I'm happy to see that we have to be able to account for all different types of understandings we have to be able to account for different ways of doing things.

11:33

It's not that necessarily one is absolutely better than the other, because you know Apple will say that those work for Microsoft or Google.

11:41

Different type of entity. Right, there's discipline of things getting done, but they get to the end game differently, right?

11:49

So is it? Has it changed?

11:51

Yes, it's allowed, because we don't all look alike, we don't all speak the same way, we don't all understand the same way, and so we have a lot of strengths now, various strengths in the workforce and we just have to be able to understand that middle ground right.

12:09

Before we didn't spend all the time doing that.

12:11

So it's like your dad said get up and do this.

12:14

You got up and do. You never talk back, whatever it is.

12:16

Now there's the opportunity and I can tell you from my perspective the Apple 21 year old at home who was at another college doing psychology, now he's another college doing recording arts.

12:27

I had to get on up my way because I was like, no, you're going to get this degree, make this money this way.

12:33

And I have to stop. Where is the creativity right?

12:38

And when I step back, he blossomed even more right.

12:43

So I think I'm just have to understand how to reframe that discipline right With the different types of demographics or different types of generations we have in the workforce, right?

12:54

Well, you mentioned something that I think is a big cause or a basis for the change which is parenting, and I heard a quote last week and I think it is so fitting.

13:06

People say, well, kids today, right, kids today, and I think every generation always has said that right, but the quote was paraphrasing.

13:14

It was something effective. Kids haven't changed, parents have changed, and I know that to be very true and I'm guilty of that as well.

13:23

Where you said it, I didn't. Not only did I not talk back, no one wanted my opinion right when I was growing up, it was, you know, be seen, not heard was commonplace with kids to a certain age.

13:37

And I'm not sure if you know who Gary Vaynerchuk is.

13:42

If you've, he's a he's got a big social media following marketing guy but, he's done very well for himself, and one of the things that he often says is I didn't open my mouth until I was in my mid 30s.

13:53

I didn't share my opinion because I was, I didn't, I still needed to learn, I didn't have expertise, and so he was raised kind of of that same way.

14:03

And now parents, I think, give kids more of a voice early on and say make your own decisions right, tell your, it's your story, you write it as you see fit, and I think that's a.

14:17

I think I think kids need more discipline than we've been giving them.

14:21

Do you think I'm crazy for that thought or do you think it's?

14:24

crazy. I don't think you're crazy.

14:26

I think I think everyone needs their voice right, and so we may have we will probably raise with that that that iron hand, iron fist approach and and I'm sure I can tell you for me, I struggled later on in my 30s and 40s with relationships at home and stuff like that because the ability to give people your voice right.

14:49

You weren't taught how to do that, I had to learn how to do that, and so I believe so much in that everyone has their voice Now.

14:58

But there's consequences, right.

15:00

If you are raising your child to say whatever they say, whatever they say, thinking there's absolutely no consequences in the house and they want to go work with someone else, that's not going to fly very far.

15:10

We know that. So I think you have to also have that narrative that says you can have your own voice absolutely.

15:17

Please understand that, depending who you want to work for, if you don't want to work for yourself, that you they're boundaries.

15:22

They're still boundaries in this house you can just go.

15:25

You're not going to allow a five year old kid to go cook a meal over a hot stove.

15:29

You're not going to do that. There's boundaries, right. But you do want them to tell them that.

15:34

Tell the parent I'm going to having a bad day.

15:37

If they've been abused in school or whatever it is, you do want them to have that voice, right?

15:42

Some families unfortunately vary things. They don't talk about things, so you never know, until it happens in someone's 40s, later on in life 50s, that this happened when they were a child, right, because they were never given that opportunity to speak about.

15:55

And so you find a lot of things coming to fruition now, coming up in the open.

16:00

Well, yeah, mental health was something no one ever talked about and now it is.

16:04

People are very comfortable, it's open and that's been a very positive change.

16:08

And I think the pendulum swing in businesses, in society, and when it goes from one extreme to the other, it tends to go too far, and I think that's what happened for a time, with parenting helicopter parents wanting to give their kids a different experience than they had and being too overbearing, too protective.

16:32

But I see it coming back to the middle right now.

16:35

I think kids who are maybe under 10, under 15 right now are getting a different experience of that gen alpha if is what they're, I think, calling that generation.

16:47

That's different than the millennial generation got.

16:50

So I think the trend is in that extreme of kids, you do whatever you want, right?

16:58

You're in charge, you make your own decisions, Went too far and now it's coming back to center, which is, I think, going to benefit them as a whole, Because I do think about it a lot as a father of four, as an employer of young people, as, of course, thinking of Zengegg and what young professionals and students need.

17:16

Disciplines, a big component of that, and sometimes you have to learn that the world is hard.

17:21

I mean it's not to find out.

17:26

The world's a tough place. It's not great when you're 22.

17:30

It's better to find out in a younger age.

17:32

I think that's where I'm coming from with this.

17:34

Yeah, and again, I think it's a very valid observation and stuff like that, especially being a father myself.

17:41

One is 28, one is 21.

17:44

And you see that when they get into the workplace there might be challenges and stuff.

17:51

I think we own that discipline at home, right, First and foremost right.

17:55

But then again, the structure may not be set up at home to provide that discipline right.

18:01

You might have a single parent that doesn't have that time with the kids but they try to put food on the table, they try to keep their lights on.

18:09

You may have two working parents in the house.

18:12

You might see eye to eye and things.

18:14

I mean, I might have a different set of terms of how I'm disciplining a child and things like that.

18:19

But at the end of the day is, I think, parenting at home, how you structure that is important.

18:27

It lies in the parents' shoulders. How do you want to do it?

18:30

Now, when they want to come into the workforce and they find those challenges and stuff like that, they can still go back home to the parents and say you know what, Mom, Dad, you rob me, you lie to me or whatever it is, again, because they can say what they want to say, right, and then that parent has to be accountable as to why they chose that route.

18:49

Right, I can tell you how I raised my 28-year-old and my 21-year-old, who's very, very similar, but because he's stayed home with me now, during college, it's very, very different.

19:00

Like sometimes I tell my mom I said, you know, if he wasn't the one I would not do it, I would not know what he's doing.

19:07

But you're going to be being called.

19:09

I went away for college. Nobody knew what I was doing, and so now you're seeing things.

19:13

You're seeing how they get up, how they just get off the bed through their clothes and go to school.

19:17

You know what I mean. And you might say, hey, go take a shower or whatever it is, but you know what happened in college right.

19:23

Right, Right. That's a different.

19:25

You get the close-up, front-row view experience.

19:28

You get a close-up, front-row view of yourself, because that's little you and I running around basically.

19:35

I think every parent has in common that they want more for their kids and they want them to be the best version of themselves, and I found that it manifests in an interesting way there.

19:47

You say repeat things that you liked as you were raised and try to avoid things you didn't like, and how that manifests is fascinating to me.

19:57

I mean, that's a whole different topic.

19:59

We could talk about it for days, but I wanted to bring it back to the work environment a little bit.

20:05

And you were just getting there. You've navigated, you're navigating and have navigated what I consider to be a minefield in a corporate setting.

20:14

It takes a special special trait, special skill to do one that I haven't done.

20:21

I then start my business 18 years ago, so I haven't navigated that.

20:26

So what advice do you have for young professionals today to Navigate success in the corporate world?

20:34

They have to understand the equity of, explore the equity of, the equity of experience, right?

20:40

So folks coming in first time into the, into the workforce it's more multi-generational than ever, do you?

20:48

They're coming in with a lot more theoretical knowledge, right?

20:52

They may have spent time on ticked up Instagram just being bombarded with Information, right?

21:00

You and I had in psychopedia remember that back in the day and we had the library, so we had a go-do.

21:06

We didn't have that access. Our access was our parent in the home.

21:09

If we got chance to talk to them or what we learned outside, we went to play.

21:14

Which is fascinating to think that are. The encyclopedia I referred to was the one that my brother, who's seven years older, had had to refer to.

21:23

Imagine that there was no updated information Minimum of seven years, and it was probably more like 10 to 12 by the time I got to it.

21:31

That's almost hard to believe that that's the way we operated not too long ago, but it's crazy.

21:39

So they have more theoretical knowledge coming in on a lot of things.

21:41

Like you know, they go to zen gate, for example.

21:44

This is what this is, that code, this is a structure to go to, you know, glass door, different things I have.

21:48

This is what it looks like, right, this is.

21:50

But they don't know that there's something missing Experience, right, yes, experience.

21:56

Where's that experience? Experience is in the person you're gonna go report into.

22:01

Right back in our day he come into the workforce.

22:04

The person had less Education, potentially.

22:07

Right, I may be a high school diploma, but they had a ton of experience.

22:11

They can teach you a lot of things about having a read a manual because of trial and error.

22:15

So the person's coming into the workforce, they need to understand one thing and I will support that.

22:20

They have. They have. They may not be experienced, but they have some equity involved right now.

22:25

Talk about in a little bit. They have the theory.

22:27

So now they have to really be open, like a parachute.

22:30

Parachute only works when fully open, right, so you have to be willing to learn some things as a, as a young professional coming into your environment.

22:38

Now you might say where do I get the experience from transferable skills.

22:43

All right, did you do any volunteering as a youth?

22:46

Did you have chores?

22:48

And I really teach this do you have chore? Do you have chores as a youth to Feed the animals, to take out the garbage in certain days?

22:56

You have to understand that those things are repetitive, those things are transferable skills and your consistency Falling instructions because you can say no sometimes.

23:06

I didn't take it all the time and there were consequences by a loon and I made Charles more consistent.

23:11

An employer could look at that and be like you know what? I could probably start this person at this level that they seem like the back on was right.

23:18

You know, in terms of the discipline you're exposed to, even being on a sports team, right, you may never have had a job in your life, but if you've been on a sports there the basketball team every person on that field has a specific position, talent and and responsibility, and so People going into work force that have been on teams need to be able to leverage that right.

23:43

Yes, you are my boss, you're my coach, you're my peer, you're my teammate.

23:48

Different things like that you sitting on the bench, you're somebody I could probably mentor or bring up.

23:52

So, transfer equity of transferable skills.

23:55

I think it's important to understand that. Don't just look at a job record.

23:58

They are not qualified enough. Think about what you think out of the box.

24:02

Don't look at a job about what you've done and how you can connect and, I think, know what your value is To the organization and the team.

24:10

And I just had this conversation a couple of months ago with my youngest, who was trying out for his high school basketball team, and there were big numbers right.

24:19

Making a high school basketball team today is not, it is not a given.

24:22

There's 30 kids trying out for 12 spots or whatever it is.

24:26

And I said you have to know your value. And if you look around and you can't figure out what your value is, that's a problem, because if you don't know what your value is, the coach certainly isn't going to know what your value is.

24:38

So you figure out what role you can have and then make sure that you're able to apply it.

24:43

And it was a conversation just sort of happened on the fly and I've realized, wow, that that really does.

24:50

That's a. That's something to know in life too, because we're in a an environment right now.

24:56

If you spend time on LinkedIn, like I do, you see how many people are having the difficult time finding a job.

25:03

Now the Department of Labor puts out numbers that indicate that the job market is is good, unemployment is low.

25:11

Yeah, we see that. But the the story on LinkedIn is is something different, and it's.

25:18

It comes down in a lot of cases to supply and demand.

25:20

And that's where, again, you have to know what your value is in the market and if, and be willing to change.

25:28

And that's a hard thing, all right.

25:31

And that's where you, for someone young, to start off with that mindset I think is necessary, because when you're my age, your age, that's a hard thing to.

25:41

To wake up one day and say I don't know what my value is, yeah, and to have to figure it out, yeah.

25:48

I know your value right. I equate that to knowing your position on the team, right.

25:53

That's what's the value you want to bring to the organization.

25:56

I, I pride myself and I'm a big.

25:59

I'm not a gamer like my, like my, like my son, but I love to use game, exponential things in the, in the, in the workforce right to to make sure my teams could connect and good.

26:10

It's not always about the work and technical IT stuff, but we could play this game and understand strategy, understand how to leverage someone else right so, and bring up people's values and skill sets.

26:22

The one thing you you mentioned there in terms of Value as well, is, if you don't know, then that's why it's important right Understanding folks that can help you understand, maybe Discover your value, discover your potential and unleash it.

26:41

And and you know what you expect to like, you know the labor standards and what's being reported.

26:45

Sometimes there's a pride thing I've been unemployed at least twice in my life or one layoff in different things like that, and because I had a family at the time, you know it was, you know went to the unemployment office and and that gets reported.

26:59

But a lot of times, people who are putting things out there, I've found out that they're unemployed, they're not reporting it.

27:06

Right, they're not reporting it because they're hoping to pick something up quickly or they may have gotten a severance or whatever it is.

27:13

So they they'll lean on that for some time.

27:15

It's not reported. They land on their feet again.

27:17

And so I think that's from my year of doing research and stuff in education we find that that's happened, right, there's people not reporting information.

27:27

Well, now you're putting it on time at all.

27:29

So then you have those, that skewing of data, and so I don't know if you you're familiar with that as well.

27:36

I am, and I've, and I've as I've, paid closer attention to that data that comes out from Bureau of Labor statistics.

27:42

They revise it often. I don't know if you've been following that a little trick that they do.

27:48

They'll come out and say November numbers were great for the job market.

27:53

And then when they put out December numbers, they'll at the very bottom of that announcement They'll be a little revision that says well, we exact, yeah, we were off by a hundred thousand jobs, and no one reports on that.

28:07

You don't see that in the news anywhere. So I just saw a graphic about two weeks ago that showed how often that happened last year and it was essentially every month.

28:16

They overstated the numbers and then retracted it.

28:19

So thank you and I are on the same page there. The market is not as good as the media.

28:23

It tends to report that it is so for young folks right now who are coming out, what challenges do they have that didn't exist not too long ago?

28:31

The world has changed a lot since COVID. We know that it's changing rapidly as we speak.

28:37

Nope, you can't look at an encyclopedia ten years ago or the world's unrecognizable right.

28:42

What challenges exist today that didn't exist not too long ago?

28:46

The challenges that existed, that existed today, that didn't have that long ago, is the diversity of the workforce.

28:53

Right, I say I say I say a challenge, because sometimes, depending where you live, where you grew up, whatever your household, you you may not have been exposed to a lot of diversity.

29:03

So now there's a lot more women in leadership, which is a good thing.

29:06

You know, back then the women were not empowered as much to Climb the corporate ladder.

29:13

If you were a woman trying to climb the corporate ladder Several decades ago, you want to consider the trail of laser.

29:21

You were someone going against the grain right Right now.

29:26

So those coming into the workforce, you have that on which.

29:29

The good thing that you have that Experience now to see that, which means that people manage their lead differently, right, some people trying to prove themselves, others are just trying to not, you know, not to stand out and be ridiculed.

29:43

So I'm kind of speaking from that, but not from perspective.

29:46

So the there's more partnership Going in, there's more opportunity to you feel.

29:52

Talk to someone who looks like you were working in the industry and say you know what?

29:56

How did you make it? How did you break that glass ceiling?

29:59

But those were not the conversations decades ago, pete, it was just a matter of you work hard.

30:05

You're gonna get waiting to be. That could be 20, 30 years down the road.

30:08

Then you finally get that promotion because that person is either to retire or they died.

30:13

That's you know, and you thought that was the only company you could work for, right?

30:17

You know that you could go work for the competitor, because then everybody looks down at you.

30:21

All you try to just put food on your table, all you try to just to have a better opportunity for your environment.

30:27

So those are some of the challenges I think that folks would see now or that we might see now, right.

30:33

So on the other side, we're seeing the younger generation coming in.

30:37

They may seem a little bit more entitled.

30:40

They have no, but have all this education right, because they did certificate, google certificate.

30:45

I'll do after Google certificate you know getting all these accolades and okay, I have all these things give me the highest paying job to someone who's been there for 40 years.

30:55

You know maybe one degree and they feel out in time and I think we have to understand why that is and we have to explain you know how, how you, how you can leverage that theoretical knowledge they have and how you can set the Set things straight for them.

31:12

Because I can tell you someone at the age of 2021, if they graduate from college, you're betting on the degree to have and they go to work for Google they could land a six-figure game really easy, so slowly.

31:24

I think it's six-figure game and there's nothing wrong with that, because that's why we have so many phones and so many computers now, because of that that knowledge there.

31:33

Right, even have the experience, but they have that, that knowledge there.

31:37

So that's, those are the challenges that we face on both sides.

31:41

We have to understand how to come to the middle on that.

31:44

That's great. I know we're not supposed to talk too much about gender differences, but I will tell you that the most organized, discipline, productive person, business partners and Folks I've worked with in my career are are working mothers, because they have no time for games, they have no time for their most efficient you know group that I've ever worked with and I will.

32:07

I don't mind saying that on record and I'll defend it and I can name names Because they have to be and and so I think, yeah, when you, when you look at you know a lot of what happens today.

32:19

Those people with fewer choices have to have to be better in many cases, right, and I think there's almost so many choices for young people today, and they see, they see the whole world, right, where our, our view was limited to what we could see with our own eyes and you'd see, you know, on TV, right, but that was, that was different.

32:41

This is constant. So in social media, and so I think there's a feeling of pressure.

32:47

It may not manifest the right way, but a feeling of I feel pressure to achieve, to end up at a high level.

32:56

I feel pressure to end up at the top of the mountain, to get there.

33:00

Well, you gotta be climate and it takes time.

33:04

And that's one of the messages that I try to deliver to my kids to it was in gig audience which is you have a, you have a forty year career.

33:13

If you look at it that way, you have a longer runway.

33:16

So when you're in your early twenties, feel pressure to Act, don't feel pressure to arrive, and and you know, I think they all want to arrive my kids do.

33:28

My twenty two year old, who we talked about, you talk about your twenty one year old.

33:32

He feels he doesn't know exactly what he wants to do, exactly where he wants to end up.

33:39

Right, and I'm like, listen, even people who think they do it that age don't really know you have plenty of time to figure it out and that that that is something that I think, that pressure I wish we could help relieve From them, but not confuse it with effort, right, because you still need to be working to find it.

33:58

You find out what you're calling us I think the great thing about the child is that he's expressing that to you Right to your point.

34:05

Early on we couldn't express that, you know, we didn't feel opening up to express that to our parents, that you know what?

34:12

I don't know what I want to do. I don't think I'm gonna be successful.

34:15

I'm suffering in math right now. I don't know if I could ever be a scientist, for whatever it is.

34:20

You know, my, my daughter is a scientist at Boston University and you know, if you, if I go back in time to what was the number one subject, it would have been math, was good all around, but it would have been writing and may have been oratory, different things like that, and she carries us up really well.

34:39

But you know, I think the opportunity to express how you feel and so my son is sad, you know, does nobody wants to do, and that's okay, right, is only 21 years old or my mom and say, hey, you know, talk to your nephew, he's out of college right now.

34:56

I'm like that's okay. I didn't get my first degree until I was in my 30s.

35:00

I, you know, I started, I stopped and then I went back and now unfortunately well, fortunately I didn't stop again.

35:07

I went on three degrees later.

35:09

But. But sometimes they go to college we force them to do those things so quickly and they're not ready.

35:15

They're not ready. My, my son, had experience in his psychology class and he's a very creative writer and because he struggled to stay within that prompt and within that confine great writing when I read it there was a you know, you had to make a decision.

35:31

Okay, this is not for me right now, let me go do this.

35:33

And so I think we have to have that voice to express.

35:37

And Mentorship is good.

35:39

Coaches are good mentors, I think, to kind of like help them along the way.

35:43

And it shows the panda on being able to speak To those and in yours apparently, don't be, don't be shy, don't be ashamed, because you know they want to speak to a coach instead of you.

35:53

We feel a little pride in it, but speaking of the talking about it, and maybe that's a good mentor they'll come back and say you know what little johnny is having this going on, and I think that partnership is important.

36:05

Absolutely. I love that you said that and I want to ask about mentorship.

36:09

You mentioned finding a mentor a couple of times as a young professional.

36:14

How do you go about doing that?

36:16

you. I think if you, if you're young, professional and you are in the workforce already and you could, you can talk to your employer about that.

36:24

Right, if you had been on sports teams, you can always go back to the coach, even like you coach, five year old, you know.

36:31

Imagine that one of your younger guys, you coach came back and said hey, coach pick, can you help you?

36:36

You would feel really great about it because there is a discipline.

36:40

So I think they have to ask, right the thing about social media right again.

36:45

That's so you know that they can just attack me.

36:49

How do I get a mentor mentor?

36:53

Your mentor doesn't have to be someone in your, in your field, that you're working in your industry.

36:59

They can be cross cross, discipline, right.

37:03

It can be someone you look up to. It can be your, your passing, your church, it could be your, your, your moms, the mom of one year friends that you feel comfortable with their mentors, and stuff like that.

37:14

So I think, being able to ask and you don't ask them go, you know and I hopefully your site would do that and speak about those things as well how to get to mentor, you ask someone you know for that and that's the biggest thing, right to ask someone, even even having the platform to type it in, you need a mentor and then maybe a chat Virtual robot comes up and says here's a website and do things like that, because they will do that.

37:41

We did believe it or not. We have. We have an hr consultant who we work with a lot and I had interviewed him about mentorship, and it is on the, it is on zingig.

37:49

So that is the show notes, alright, alright, doctor, jim, put you on the spot.

37:55

Let's talk about things to avoid in the, in the corporate world.

38:00

What are some pitfalls?

38:04

So in the environment, there's this thing about religion, politics, right, your, your belief system.

38:13

Again, people are my believer. I don't have to walk and by the beat anybody on the head or whatever it is.

38:18

If someone is ill, whatever is going on, I will openly say I'll pray for you, stuff like that, and I'm comfortable with that.

38:25

But sometimes they have to be aware that certain things it's not that it's taboo, but it can go in a different direction, right?

38:34

And are you willing that you don't know how that person's gonna respond?

38:37

Right, and that force you to respond a certain way, and next time it becomes an unsafe work environment not unsafe, it's not what I'm looking for but it becomes a work environment that's not psychologically safe, right?

38:51

So I think those things right.

38:55

Also, what people look like, how they dress differently.

38:58

We dress differently. Some might throw on a jacket, some might just wear polos, and so, being able to be understanding of how would you feel if someone said that thing to you?

39:08

Would you be defensive? Would it bother you when it hurts?

39:11

So kind of like, consider the other person before you open your mouth, before you pen that email, consider that Some things to avoid.

39:18

Like that you can have your opinion all.

39:21

As a leader and my team knows this I'm not a drinker, I'm not a smoker and I believe from a leadership perspective there's still.

39:31

If I wanna go to a sports thing with my team or whatever, I'm still a leader.

39:36

The camera is still on, so I have to camera myself a certain way.

39:40

So, even though you might go with your work team, the camera is always on because whether you wear that badge out here or not, you're still representing that company.

39:49

I love people who don't talk about that.

39:51

Well, I'm on my own personal time. Well, please understand.

39:54

there's certain vision, there's certain pillars in that company and that, come on, what happened in Washington DC?

40:02

And all these people, all of a sudden, years later, right January 6th, starts showing up of doing this, doing that, doing this or whatever it is.

40:11

And they were corporate CEOs and different, and so now they represented their company.

40:15

They get cut. They get cut right.

40:17

Well, you said it right the camera is always on and the rule for throughout our career is anything you put in writing, right, it stays forever.

40:26

Now it's anything you post on social media and, to your point, anything you say in public there's a good chance someone's recording it.

40:36

There's this guy who's on social media, does undercover reporting and his whole shtick is that he tries to get people from different companies or in political positions.

40:47

They pretend that they're going out on a date and they it's a.

40:50

I'm not a fan of this at all and then they get people to speak and they record them and it's and apparently this is legal to do and it's awful.

41:00

These people's lives are ruined because they think they're having a conversation with someone who's safe and who's their friend, when the opposite is true and seeing this and if you, we could talk about it off camera, I'll let you know who this guy is and who does it and it's.

41:16

It's. It's terrifying to think that you know young people today meet on social media through dating apps, something you and I, you know we missed out on on that and you know, probably for good.

41:29

Thank goodness right that I did, because you don't know who you're meeting.

41:33

You're meeting strangers and you're sharing information with them.

41:36

Like you said, you're out in public at an event with your team and people get loose and I'm sure, like me, you have lots of stories of people over the years You've seen their career blow up because they thought they were safe and they were drinking and it turns out what happens in Vegas doesn't necessarily stay in Vegas.

41:55

And you know you don't go dating apps. Since I'm recording, I didn't meet my wife through a dating app.

42:01

Oh, you did, I don't. I don't bless that this year.

42:05

This month will be five years we've been married, right?

42:07

Oh, I didn't know that.

42:09

That terrifies me to think that I was so much pressure.

42:12

I don't know how I would do it, but you did.

42:15

And I was just talking to my wife about it last night because with our kids, right, that's just the world that they're in and we were saying I was like how would I, how do you navigate that, how do you do, how do you deal with it?

42:26

And it works. That's awesome, congratulations.

42:29

I had no idea. Clearly, I had no idea.

42:31

There was some, trust me, there was some false starts. I just want to go app to app.

42:35

There was some false starts, but as well.

42:37

But you have to learn about yourself and whatnot and what you would.

42:41

What are the non-negotiables?

42:43

Right? But I think that's very, very important Something you said.

42:48

I wanted to come back to that.

42:50

And with respect to the things that you should avoid, right, if you're going to go interview, if you're, please clean up your social media.

43:03

Yes.

43:04

Clean up your, because nowadays it's not just the resume.

43:07

You're going to find someone going to Facebook see what you're involved with.

43:11

They're going to go to LinkedIn see if you are present there.

43:14

I think, especially if you're going to the professional environment, you want to have a good profile there at the professional sites, right?

43:22

Linkedin is not paying for us to say this, but I get out benefited from there a lot going to LinkedIn, and so you want to clean up your presence, right, that's very, very important.

43:32

A lot of people talk about that. You know you're not in college.

43:35

It's good to have all these pictures of everything your food and what you're drinking and stuff but when you're going now to go work for Peter myself I don't go look for people on them, but trust me, my team might go look and say, hey, what did you know?

43:52

Yes, it happens. It happens and the advice that we give to people in the job market is make your accounts private.

43:59

Make your personal accounts private during that job search process.

44:03

That's the real safe route. But you're right, it happens.

44:08

Recruiters look, managers look, potential team members definitely look when they see someone walking in for that interview and they know who it is.

44:18

You'll know about their social media very quickly and I think at times, candidates believe that there's laws that protect them from things like that.

44:29

That, just whether you think they do or not, it happens and that's we have to live in the real world with these things and that's the bias that we have to live with.

44:41

You may say you know what? I'm not hiring this person because they didn't qualify.

44:45

But that person has some bias. We all have some type of bias.

44:50

That's sometimes we're not willing to admit it and because you may have seen something somewhere, it's like I don't want that character to be around, whatever it is, because you are biased by what you saw and that you're well represented in front of you.

45:06

So we have to put out and check and sometimes I think the one thing I like, pete, is I wish people did it more is if you have a good set of leaders that you know outside of your area but in the same same company.

45:20

I think when it comes to interviewing someone at certain levels, it's okay to have someone who is not in your department come and get a read, get a culture read, because it's not just about that team, it's about how they're going to work with other teams and that's something I was with a company one time in FinTech when I was in FinTech and I was blessed to be part of.

45:39

I was in IT but I was sort of by HR to go help source for the new CIO.

45:45

So I was sent to. I was not in HR, but I was sent to Vegas to source for the new CIO at that time.

45:50

And again because transferable skills right, you know how will they interact with at this level, at the end use level and user operations level, and how?

46:01

I mean because I used to be a part of the whole interviewing high level executive, c-level, c-suite folks, you know, trying to help them be more, more relatable to any and everyone.

46:13

Those were the things that you started to test for.

46:15

So yeah, Perfect, love it. Thank you All right, dr Chief.

46:19

Before I let you go, I want to get one more thing on the record For young people today.

46:24

What do you recommend that they do to be a leader at a young age?

46:29

I think volunteering is a great thing. I think volunteering, you know, homeless shelters, volunteering with food banks, food pantries, even in the hospital, right, being able to go and volunteer being a sitter, sitting with someone in the room, a volunteer to be a greeter those are good things.

46:48

That they speak volumes, right.

46:50

It's not also about getting of that paycheck, right, it's about getting that experience of how to deal with people.

46:57

One of the things I learned from my son's school is like there's a very introverted group, right, but they teach them and they have me coming to talk to them in the future about just go to the grocery on behalf of your family, so you, and when you get to the cashier, say hello.

47:15

Simple as that.

47:18

You're teaching kids in their 20s how to go to a cashier and say hello, but you know there's fast checkout, right, you don't have to talk to anyone.

47:26

So that's what we gravitate. But I say no, go to a cashier and learn to say hello.

47:30

So I think it's very important that they learn how to connect by speaking outside of the texting.

47:36

Volunteering will help that in a big way, right.

47:40

Even if you in your community see an elderly couple or individual and their grass or trash is not being picked up or what's picked up.

47:48

You know, roll their player, their trash can to their garage right and they really see them and say, hey, I did that for you and this so you don't have to street.

47:56

Just having those little connections right, those connections are important, and I don't think anyone can do those things and not feel better as a result.

48:04

Yeah, right, and maybe encouraging them to do that so they'll improve.

48:09

But the satisfaction they'll get from those simple things and I'm guilty if I'm busy, if I go to the grocery store at work and I'm looking at my phone and have other things in my mind, sometimes I don't acknowledge the cashier or the way I should, to your point.

48:25

But when I have those interactions I always feel good.

48:29

Right, you know it's when you connect with another person it's always positive, right, you get all these feels.

48:38

I love that. I've never heard that suggestion before.

48:40

Yeah, you go to a restaurant. You know, forget about a restaurant.

48:43

They like fast food. So you go to the drive-thru, you get your order.

48:46

How are you doing? You just saw your ship?

48:49

Simple things like that. My kids Rise.

48:52

My kids crazy like that. Why you always talk to the cashier Because it matters.

48:57

Nobody asks how their day has been.

48:59

And this is fast food and you know it's a high stress situation where that person gets the wrong order.

49:04

And you're only like 16 years old and you've never dealt with that type of conflict and people your age will, like you know, rip down the new age.

49:14

Come on, it's just a kid that made a mistake or something.

49:18

So sometimes you just have to bring it back and say, hey, you know, how are you doing today?

49:23

You know I love it. You said it because it matters, right, that's it.

49:28

You don't need to define it further.

49:30

And when you think about those jobs, you know the pay is not great.

49:35

The pay is probably not even good and they're on their feet nonstop.

49:39

It never stops In the Chick-fil-A's who I think of, right.

49:43

Chick-fil-a's is so well known for how positive and engaging it's an absolute pleasure to interact with their employees and I always think what a difficult job to stand up and have to smile every single minute that you're working Right.

50:01

And here we are. We get to sit on our butts and like type away at our desk.

50:05

You know computer half the day.

50:07

We have it easy. So to appreciate those people is what a wonderful thing.

50:11

I'm so glad you mentioned that because my kids may not appreciate that you mentioned that, but I'm going to be applying that to them from the perspective today.

50:21

Yes, Well, wonderful. Dr Gary Montu, thank you so much for your time today and all the knowledge that you've shared.

50:28

It's been an absolute pleasure and I hope that you'll come back and play the guitar for us play the bass.

50:34

Absolutely Every couple of podcasts have been on and the bass has come up, but I look at it as a challenge and so when I go to my teacher, he's like you're trying to get all these gigs and you still don't know skills.

50:45

I'm like I'll get there, I'll get there, but I like that challenge.

50:48

That's why, you know, education is for me, right. I went back to school to learn to see what I didn't know, to close that gap, to be a great representation, to be just not to my kids but to my community, right, so I can learn what you know, what's what I don't know, and put that what I call the expert seal of approval.

51:07

So yeah, yes, well, thank you for your time.

51:10

It was a pleasure to speak with you today and I'm going to hold you to it.

51:13

Come back, and I look forward to seeing the guitar in your hand next time, absolutely Great program.

51:17

Thank you, pete.

51:18

All right, everyone Thanks for listening.