0:06

Hello everyone. And welcome back to the finite podcast

0:09

where today we'll be discussing the biggest

0:11

mistakes marketers make in B2B

0:13

paid social. We've got a paid social

0:15

expert with us. Jules foster, who at

0:17

the moment is director of global paid social marketing

0:19

at automation anywhere. He

0:22

started their paid social function from scratch

0:24

and knows what it takes to run successful,

0:26

paid social campaigns for B2B tech

0:29

companies. Happy listening. The

0:32

finite community is kindly supported by

0:34

the marketing practice, a global integrated

0:37

B2B marketing agency that brings together all

0:39

the skills you need to design and run account

0:42

based marketing demand, generation channel,

0:44

and customer marketing programs. Head

0:46

to the marketing practice.com to

0:48

learn more. Hello,

0:52

Jules . Thanks for joining me on the finite podcast.

0:54

My pleasure looking forward to chatting about all

0:56

things B2B.

0:57

Indeed. We've got a good one coming up . I think this is the

0:59

first time we've really dived into, I

1:01

guess, paid social generally or done

1:04

a kind of really specific episode on it . And I

1:06

know that's your expert area, so yeah. Gonna

1:08

be a good conversation. Cause I think it's an

1:10

area where there's lots of easy kind of

1:12

mistakes and pitfalls and also

1:14

lots of , lot to learn for lots of B2B

1:17

marketers . So yeah, looking forward to, to talking

1:19

more detail before we do that, I'll let you, as

1:21

we always do. Tell us a bit about yourself and

1:23

your background and experience before we

1:25

talk about your kinda current role and team. Yeah,

1:27

Sure. So I've

1:29

been in the industry for 20 odd

1:32

years. Started back

1:34

in the mid nineties in , uh

1:36

, in automotive advertising actually. So

1:38

kind of old school , newspaper, TV,

1:41

radio, billboard posters,

1:43

that that type of thing did that for about five

1:45

years was a bit of a dream start , really being

1:47

a petrol, had myself to be paid, to talk about

1:49

cars all day was a dream, but

1:52

that said, you know, I just had

1:54

an urge to, to go more on

1:56

the consultancy side and , um,

1:58

really get under the skin of, of what,

2:01

what companies were doing. And it

2:03

was at the time of kind of , you

2:05

know, dot com boom and everything. And there

2:07

was a real kind of interest in, in enterprise.

2:09

It, so it might

2:11

seem like a strange kind of segue to go from

2:14

automotive to enterprise it, but

2:16

it was just where the , where the world was

2:18

back then . And , um , so

2:20

I moved into consultancy , had a

2:22

successful 15 years also doing

2:24

that , uh , for all sorts of enterprise. It

2:27

companies all around the world, primarily

2:29

starting off back in

2:31

the day of kind of HTML emails

2:33

and things like that. But obviously,

2:36

you know, with , with a rise of LinkedIn and

2:38

other platforms moving very much into

2:41

paid social over the years. And

2:43

then one of my clients motor solutions

2:45

gave me the opportunity to go on the dark side

2:48

to move client side . So , um,

2:51

moved there to set up their global social media

2:53

center of excellence for about

2:55

five years or so, which was , uh

2:57

, awesome experience and then

3:00

been at automation anywhere now for the past three

3:02

years, heading up a global paid

3:04

social there.

3:06

Cool. And I guess , um, it's

3:08

always interesting cause I think the automotive world

3:10

and selling cars is probably one of the, as a

3:13

purchase journey. Although it's B2C is actually quite

3:15

similar to B2B in a lot of ways. It's always

3:17

one of those comparisons of, and if it's quite

3:19

a considered buyer journey and there's usually multiple

3:21

people involved the , the other half and the kids

3:23

and lots of people have an opinion. And I dunno

3:26

there , are there learnings that you took with you

3:28

from selling cars to selling

3:30

enterprise? It,

3:31

Yeah, there , there was because, you know, back

3:34

then it was, it was laughable really

3:36

the way, the way, you know, the market was where

3:39

we, you know, you were doing coupons

3:41

for people to respond to newspaper adverts

3:44

and fax backs and things like that, but incredibly

3:47

inefficient. But even back

3:49

then , um , I was fortunate to work

3:51

with, with somebody who was a data scientist

3:54

and he really kind of taught me the

3:56

value of data and how much you can learn from

3:58

data to minimize waste. So,

4:01

you know, we, we might have been spending, you

4:03

know, well over a million , uh , a million

4:06

dollars on a D mail campaign printed

4:08

D mail campaign. But if we could minimize

4:10

waste by knowing what

4:12

people's previous purchasing history was

4:15

to only spend half of that, then

4:18

that was a big win. So that use

4:20

of data. That's what really

4:22

kind of started me thinking about the B2B

4:25

side of things. And the interesting thing was

4:27

as well, when I moved into B2B that I

4:29

was able to take learnings from the

4:31

B2C world and apply them to B2B.

4:34

So, you know, do things like prize

4:36

draws and whatever which, which just weren't

4:39

done in , in the B2B world back

4:41

then, but just trying some tricks

4:43

that , you know, you have to do in the B2C

4:46

world. And it's amazing, you know, you

4:48

can always learn from other industries.

4:51

I always believe you should never just look at your own industry.

4:54

You can always learn from others .

4:55

Absolutely. And tell us a bit about the role at

4:58

automation anywhere and what your team looks like, where

5:00

you fit into the marketing function there .

5:01

Yeah, sure. So , uh , as I say , I've

5:03

been with automation anywhere about three years when

5:06

I started , uh , automation

5:09

anywhere, there was no paid

5:11

social function at all.

5:13

We hadn't done anything. And

5:16

I was brought in obviously with having experience

5:19

with the kind of view

5:22

to getting things set up , up

5:24

and running and generating pipeline

5:26

immediately globally. We're

5:29

a hyper growth company and things

5:31

move extremely quickly. So

5:33

we were able to do that. And from fairly

5:36

humble beginnings, you know, we

5:38

were able to scale

5:40

paid social to now be the

5:42

biggest contributor to pipeline out of all of

5:45

our digital marketing channels. And

5:47

that's how we measure the success of

5:49

our, our marketing activities. So

5:52

running pay social , you know, let's say globally,

5:54

so the us Europe, middle east Asia, and

5:57

obviously, you know, there's lots of different variety

5:59

within , uh , those regions on

6:01

what works and what doesn't. And,

6:03

and in terms of the team, how social

6:06

fits into the overall global digital team.

6:09

So within that team, we have marketing operations,

6:12

SEO seom localization

6:14

, uh , the web kinda

6:17

contents indication of meeting maker programs, all

6:19

part of the same team . So able to

6:22

all work together very, very closely, all

6:24

share the same targets and

6:26

the OKRs that we we use. Um

6:28

, so it really accelerates

6:31

for success that we we see from the programs .

6:34

Cool . So let's dive into the , the

6:36

B2B paid social world. Obviously you've

6:38

told us a bit about your experience there and kind of how you

6:40

started to specialize, but it's always interesting actually

6:43

for marketers , all our listeners to, to

6:45

think about, you know , their own careers and are they generalists,

6:47

so they specialists, and maybe you can talk bit about how

6:50

your , you know , how your experience and the paid

6:52

social side of things started to build.

6:54

Yeah, sure. So, like I

6:56

said , I , I started off with

6:59

a real interest in the HTML

7:01

email side of things. Uh , obviously, you

7:03

know , following on from what I said earlier, but the

7:05

data side side of things was, was always

7:08

of real interest to me and being

7:10

able to kind of see stories

7:12

within the data. So initially

7:14

that led to , uh , trying to improve

7:16

the effectiveness of , uh , email

7:19

campaigns, but then kind

7:22

of from there, it , it transitioned

7:24

into paid social where it became more about

7:27

the long-term relationships

7:30

that enterprise, it companies would

7:33

look to gain with their customers. And

7:35

I think because, you know, because the sales

7:37

cycle is so much, so

7:39

much longer on , on BSB in general to,

7:42

to BTC those relationships are

7:44

incredibly important. So, you know, whether that

7:46

be physically speaking to people or whether it

7:49

just be kind of that digital relationship

7:52

and ensuring that there's relevant content

7:54

for these folks, depending

7:56

on where they are on their , on their journey , uh

7:59

, and being able to measure that. And

8:01

so, yeah, that's kind of how it kind of segued into

8:03

the , into the world of paid social .

8:05

And I guess the natural next question is why

8:07

paid social? I mean, it's probably a , a channel that's

8:09

in the mix for most our lessons , I would've thought

8:12

in , in some way or another, but I

8:14

guess with varying levels of investment

8:17

and yeah , this is always gonna be a bit industry

8:19

sector specific as to how much of an

8:21

opportunity there is in the paid social

8:24

space, but from your angle kind of what

8:26

are the benefits of investing on the , the pay social

8:28

side of things for , uh , maybe an enterprise

8:30

B2B SA tech company?

8:32

Yeah. Um, so for

8:34

me, it's the ability to

8:36

be able to target if

8:39

you know, what you're doing, target things really, really

8:41

effectively based on your ideal

8:44

customer profile or based on intent.

8:46

So rather than just kind of saying,

8:49

oh, well we think these types of

8:51

people are interested in our products

8:54

or services. So let's target

8:56

those for tons of wastage within

8:58

that. So you're able to minimize

9:00

waste , uh , really quite effectively

9:03

by, you know , by setting up your

9:05

audiences properly and, and being

9:07

able to learn from the data . And although,

9:10

you know, bigger audiences

9:12

don't necessarily mean you end

9:14

up spending more generally it does, and

9:17

you can blow an awful lot of money very, very quickly,

9:20

if you dunno what you're doing. So there's

9:22

inherent risk with , with paid social on

9:25

an enterprise scale , but there's

9:27

also huge opportunity to generate

9:30

very large , uh , sums of pipeline

9:33

in a controlled way. And, and I

9:35

, I actually Untask automation

9:38

anywhere with seeing myself more as an investment

9:40

manager in a way where you are given a

9:42

budget and you are expected

9:44

to deliver X return on that

9:46

budget and kind

9:49

of looking at it really from a financial

9:51

perspective. And it really kind

9:53

of sharpens your mind on, on minimizing

9:55

that waste and thinking, well, if

9:57

it was my money, would I spend my money doing

10:00

that? And you know, that that

10:02

really helps sharpen your mind, but

10:04

, um , ultimately if you get it right, you know, you can, you

10:07

can tie , um , all the activity

10:09

back to pipeline. You can prove the ROI,

10:12

you can learn from it and then you can scale

10:14

it. So it's massive, massive

10:16

potential.

10:17

Absolutely. I think one

10:19

of the reasons that a lot of marketers don't invest

10:21

in, in paid social is sometimes it's feels

10:24

like a bit of a , a dark art or dark

10:26

science, or maybe yeah . Combination of art and

10:28

science, but, and it can feel like a , you know, it's

10:30

a , it's a fast moving and evolving,

10:32

you know, I know myself that even,

10:35

you know , Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and all

10:37

the platforms themselves and the way you can target

10:39

and add formats and things are kind of really

10:42

quite constantly changing at a certain speed

10:44

and evolving. So maybe there's almost a

10:46

, a fear or an unknown, particularly for

10:48

more generalist marketers that aren't aren't specialists

10:50

in this area. What do

10:52

you think the biggest mistakes are that marketers

10:55

make when it comes to paid social

10:57

and then maybe, you know, how can they , how can they avoid them ?

10:59

Yeah. So I , the

11:01

biggest areas are generally to do with audiences.

11:04

I I've, I've touched on that already and

11:06

, and setting yourself up for either

11:09

failure or success, even at the audience

11:11

stage before you even , uh

11:13

, create any ads . And before you actually kind

11:15

of start to, to spend the money,

11:18

you know, a , a lot of people don't

11:21

really have a proper idea based

11:23

on data, what their ideal

11:26

customer profile is, what types of

11:28

companies are your customers?

11:30

They'll always be hearsay, you know,

11:32

anyone will say, well

11:34

, I know, I know what types of companies, you

11:37

know, we , we work in financial services, we work with

11:39

manufacturing, it's these types

11:41

of people, but it's all based

11:43

on gut in invariably,

11:46

and that's fine, but

11:48

you need to go deeper than that. So,

11:51

you know, you need to be able to export all of your

11:53

data out , out of Salesforce or whichever

11:55

CRM you're using, and really be

11:58

able to analyze that from every single angle.

12:00

You know, what industries are the , uh , uh

12:02

, are your best , uh , customers

12:05

in what job functions, what seniority, what

12:07

size company, which assets did

12:09

they engage with on , on their journey and

12:12

doing that on a country by country basis

12:15

will really give you insight, prove

12:18

, and disprove kind of

12:20

misconceptions and preconceptions people might

12:22

have about, you know, where,

12:24

where your kind of sweet spots are. And

12:26

then once you've done that, you can then

12:30

embrace intent data from, you

12:32

know , various third parties. We , we use Bombora

12:35

and , and G2, and that enables

12:37

you to go, okay , well, you've got your basics.

12:40

You know, what industries are are hot

12:42

for you? You know what job functions are hot ? You

12:44

know, it's, you know what , whatever level and

12:47

above manager level under , you

12:49

know, it's companies of this sort of

12:51

size, whether it be employee or whether it

12:53

be revenue based , you know,

12:55

the types of assets they've engaged with in the past.

12:59

Well , now the Jeep by overlaying intent

13:01

data that enables you to kind

13:04

of put two and two together and actually match people

13:07

that are searching for

13:09

topics that relate to that type of

13:11

content. And again, if

13:13

you think it's all about minimizing waste, so

13:15

rather than giving a message out to say

13:18

all it directors, well,

13:20

why not just give that message out to all it

13:23

directors that are already

13:26

expressing an interest in your specific

13:28

topics, by the way, they're searching and

13:30

by the way they're behaving. So all

13:32

of that kind of data work is massively important

13:36

to set yourself off on the right foot.

13:38

So that's probably my , my number one. And

13:41

then , um, number two, I mean, it

13:43

kind of extends from that really where just

13:46

purely, just down to audience size.

13:49

So you , I used to hear back in,

13:51

in my email marketing days where

13:53

you'd say, well, we want to run an email campaign that

13:56

targets these job titles, and

13:58

you'd have some preconceived ideas of

14:01

the job titles that you wanted . There might be 20 job

14:03

titles, and you've you think you're

14:05

being quite clever there because you've looked at who's

14:07

responded before, and that's who you

14:09

want to target and low and behold, it

14:11

gives you really quite a small audience because

14:14

just thinking about it kind of practically,

14:17

there are millions of job titles out there

14:20

constantly changing. And

14:22

actually those job titles are

14:25

fairly irrelevant within the

14:28

scheme of, of paid social. What is more

14:30

relevant is, you know,

14:32

what companies are they in and how are they behaving?

14:35

Are they behaving in a way like they

14:37

could be interested in what you've got to say?

14:40

And of course, you know, they have to be the right seniority,

14:43

but that is just far

14:45

more EF effective. So, you

14:47

know, don't set up audiences

14:49

purely based on job titles, cuz it will give

14:51

you a very, very, very small audience

14:54

size and it needs to be of

14:56

a decent size for the algorithms to,

14:59

to learn, you know, don't fight against the algorithms,

15:01

let the algorithms learn , let them work

15:04

for you by giving them plenty of data to

15:06

munch through and learn from

15:09

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15:11

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15:32

means better marketing. I think

15:34

that's always the problem in B2B with it . And it's the same

15:36

with , with paid search on Google as well.

15:38

Isn't it is that often volumes are

15:40

so much lower that all these algorithms

15:42

don't have enough data to really, really learn

15:45

from effectively. And actually

15:47

almost can almost kind of optimize

15:49

in , in the wrong direction as a result.

15:51

Yeah. AB AB absolutely. And

15:53

a really good way I , I find is

15:56

base it more on odd job function. So

15:58

you kind of start off fairly broad. So

16:00

based on job functions, the right seniority,

16:03

but then the overlay skills, interest

16:05

and intent . So overlay, you

16:08

know, the types of skills, these people who

16:10

you want to speak to are likely to have, or

16:13

the types of interest that , you know, you'd like

16:15

them to have. Maybe you'd like them to be interested

16:17

in not just an it direct , but

16:20

you'd like them to be interested in specifically,

16:22

I dunno , some sort of database

16:25

programming or something like that, where

16:28

it's all about minimizing the waste. And, and

16:30

only talking to that section of,

16:32

of folks who are actually interested in what you've got to say,

16:35

an overlay, the intent as well. So you

16:37

start off with, what's a huge audience that

16:40

ends up being, maybe you're trimming

16:42

out 30, 40% of it, but

16:44

you end up with an audience that's for

16:47

right size companies for right industries

16:49

for right seniority. And

16:51

then they're the folks who

16:53

are acting in a way like they're

16:56

interested in what you've got to say. You

16:58

, you kind of noticeably skip the

17:00

job title a bit because it's, they're

17:02

gonna be more low hanging fruit than you trying to

17:04

force a message onto some

17:07

sea level person that would be a dream for

17:09

you to get as a new customer.

17:11

Yeah . Makes sense. Let's talk about budgets. Cause I know

17:13

budget is always a tricky one in the B2B space and then often

17:15

people will be thinking, well, how much do I need to spend to

17:17

get, get started? But I know there's a common

17:20

trap that people fall into on the , the budgets front too.

17:22

Yeah. That , that there is. And um, budgeting

17:25

is , is a tricky one. But what I

17:27

used to see quite a lot when I was a consultant

17:29

and I know still goes on is,

17:32

you know, you you'd see people setting a daily

17:34

budget and that daily budget

17:37

isn't even enough to

17:39

pay for one lead because bearing

17:42

in mind, you know, leads in the B2B world could

17:44

cost several hundred dollars depending

17:46

on , on , uh , what you are wanting talk

17:49

about. And, you know, they might , they

17:51

might have a say a daily spend limit

17:53

within that particular group of

17:57

$200 , let's say, but your average

17:59

cost per lead is 300 . Well,

18:01

if you're not even able to generate a

18:03

lead a day, how an S

18:06

algorithm's actually really going to be able to learn anything

18:08

meaningful. So now

18:11

the natural response is not to go well

18:13

, just double your budgets then , or triple your budgets.

18:15

And therefore you'll have more to spend each day because

18:17

that's not always practical. The

18:19

sensible thing will be okay. Well,

18:21

let's look at the audience having minimized

18:24

a wastage as much as possible without

18:26

getting too tight . Um, and

18:28

I always set it for an initial six week period

18:31

and aim for a , a frequency of around

18:34

six to eight it's for frequency.

18:36

That's absolutely key. So

18:39

if you spread yourself too thin and

18:41

your target audience is too big and

18:44

people only have a , there's only a

18:46

frequency of maybe one and a half , something

18:49

like that, where a six week period, they've only

18:51

seen your ad one and a half times,

18:54

you're gonna struggle like mad to , to get anything

18:57

out of that campaign. Your , your frequency needs

18:59

to be six to eight or so within

19:01

a six week period, even more sometimes.

19:05

Yeah . Makes sense. What about the measurement

19:07

side of things? I know that obviously we're

19:09

in a very data driven world where market is

19:11

, uh , forever having to, to

19:13

report very active on everything that's going on. But I

19:15

guess with , with everything paid Toshi , you really need to know

19:17

when you're spending probably a fair amount of money in

19:19

certain niches what's working and what's

19:21

not.

19:22

Yeah. And we've,

19:24

we're very fortunate. We've , we've paid social , uh

19:27

, versus some other digital channels where we

19:29

can measure things. So,

19:32

so effectively, so, you

19:34

know, make use of the hidden data fields on

19:36

if you're using , uh , native lead forms

19:38

on LinkedIn and, and Facebook, which

19:41

I definitely recommend you do make

19:43

use of the hidden data fields to

19:45

make sure that you're passing over information about,

19:48

you know, which audience the lead came from,

19:50

which platform, which asset they've downloaded.

19:53

So all of that information is all passed over

19:55

to Salesforce or whichever CRM you use.

19:58

And also likewise, if you are using conversion

20:01

tracking and sending people to a website, use

20:03

that same logic and methodology

20:06

in your UTMs, within your tracking URLs

20:09

and be consistent with your naming conventions,

20:12

because it's all about gathering data, going

20:15

back to the , the step one that

20:17

we talked about, constantly looking at that

20:19

data, constantly learning from it. And

20:22

you'll be cursing yourself if you've not been

20:24

consistent with your naming conventions and

20:27

not use your hidden data fields, because you won't

20:30

be able to answer simple questions, like does

20:32

audience a work better than audience B does asset

20:35

a generate more pipeline than asset B?

20:38

And you won't be able to answer those questions if you haven't

20:41

used those hidden data fields and UTMs

20:43

effectively.

20:44

Yeah. That's a good tip. Yeah. I think that that

20:46

kind of operational the kind of admin,

20:48

the boring side of planning, these campaigns is actually really

20:50

fundamental to overall measurement. Isn't it?

20:52

So good advice. What about kind

20:55

of once the leader is generated? I know that we talk a

20:57

lot probably on the finite podcast and in

20:59

other places about sales and marketing alignment

21:01

and recognize them , particularly enterprise

21:04

B2B buyer journeys, things take time and

21:07

capturing a lead is one thing, but actually does

21:10

paid social have a bigger role to play in kinda the onward

21:12

journey?

21:13

Yeah, so it it's a challenge for

21:15

everybody. We're very fortunate

21:17

automation anywhere where we have shared

21:19

OKRs. So we start off with overall

21:22

company OKRs and then those

21:24

cascade down to the teams. So

21:26

we do all have a shared interest in, in

21:29

kind of other team successes. And

21:31

that is a good way of ensuring

21:33

we remain aligned, but you still have

21:36

to work at it, you know, pay social's

21:38

job is not just to generate a lead

21:40

and then go, well, I've done my job so that that's fine.

21:43

You know, you've got to work

21:45

really close with SDR and actually, you

21:47

know, learn from their feedback. They're the guys

21:49

that are talking to these people every

21:52

single day and they have they're

21:55

absolute goldmine for, for information,

21:57

you know, based on those conversations of feedback

21:59

that they, they get from folks, you

22:02

know , you can really kind of make sure that you

22:04

align the , the content of

22:06

your campaigns with the topics that they end

22:08

up discussing with people on the phones

22:11

and really, you know, to stay close with

22:13

your sales team all the way through to well,

22:16

through to opportunity and, and beyond,

22:19

cause you can always learn along

22:21

the journey and if they don't feedback, you

22:24

can't make the modifications to the campaign to

22:26

improve it for everybody. So to build

22:28

that trust, get that constant feedback

22:30

loop going. And then,

22:33

you know, obviously it does take work because

22:35

you know, some, some people naturally

22:37

is it's a human reaction to maybe be a

22:39

little defensive. You know, if , if

22:42

saying , well , these leads aren't really hit hitting the

22:44

spot. Well, that's fine. You know, it's

22:46

fine to fail as long as you know why

22:48

they're not hitting this spot and you're able to do something

22:51

about it. So again, to kind of, you know , remove

22:53

that fear of failure again, it's something , uh

22:56

, that's in our kind of ethos

22:58

here at automation anyway , it's , it's fine to fail

23:00

as long as you know why and you know

23:02

, it's yeah, that's definitely true. We've

23:04

paid

23:04

Social interesting. Yeah . Yeah . I think it's

23:07

always with any sales and marketing alignment stuff , it's always fascinating

23:09

half and it comes down to culture

23:11

and, you know , the things you just mentioned in terms of

23:14

it being okay to , and those things are so hard

23:16

to hard to see and be tangible

23:19

sometimes . But so , so key pessimistic

23:27

challenge , moment

23:34

, social. If , if anything, at the moment

23:35

It feels strange talking about it in a way,

23:37

but you know, veteran's gone on

23:39

in the world with COVID and lockdowns over recent years,

23:42

it's really changed the way

23:45

that companies run their

23:47

marketing. I think, you know, maybe driven

23:49

by the practical side, but people

23:51

working remotely working from home, having

23:54

to kind of use what they use, whatever

23:56

resources they have available to them. But

23:59

also I think, you know, with people's change

24:01

perspectives on what, what life is all

24:03

about. And I think you've , I've definitely

24:05

seen the growth in more authentic

24:08

content. You know, whether that just be,

24:10

you know, folks at home doing a video and

24:13

sharing some, some guidance or whatever,

24:15

or, you know, it's not necessarily about

24:18

these. I , I used to call them

24:21

Steven Spielberg masterpiece. You never, it

24:23

doesn't have to be highly polished,

24:25

highly produced, highly edited, invariably,

24:29

just authentic content it's lit . Okay

24:31

. And it's, you know, the audio's okay

24:33

. It's about the content. It's about authenticity

24:36

and people really kind of engaging with people

24:39

on that level. I've really seen that

24:41

shift and that's been a good thing. And

24:43

it gives folks within companies, a voice

24:45

who might not have had a voice before might have been too

24:47

, too afraid, but that

24:50

is definitely changing. And, and that's something

24:52

I hope stays. And

24:54

you know, if it does can guarantee

24:56

authenticity will always out

24:59

Trump shiny Polish out polished Stevens

25:01

, Spielberg masterpieces, because people

25:03

believe it.

25:04

Yeah, absolutely. It's good . Good tip a

25:07

few final questions for you . You kind final quickfire

25:09

ones. I wonder if you've got a favorite MarTech

25:11

tool or technology that you use

25:13

Right now, it's metadata IO

25:15

. We work with , um , basically

25:17

to reinvent B2B on Facebook.

25:20

Uh , so many people have misconceptions

25:22

about what's possible and not possible

25:24

on Facebook in terms of B2B. And

25:27

it has huge, huge potential.

25:30

And , um, their product enables

25:32

you basically to build audiences, but to

25:35

as detailed, if not even more detailed than

25:37

the audiences that you're able to build on LinkedIn.

25:40

And don't think that C

25:42

level folks direct to level folks are

25:44

not on Facebook. They are, you

25:47

know, we're all human at the end of the day. And

25:49

yeah, there's , we're doing some really, really great work

25:51

with metadata IO . So right now it's

25:53

metadata IO .

25:54

Cool, good advice . Biggest challenge right

25:57

now .

25:57

I think , you know , this is something that , that will probably stay

26:00

with all digital marketers throughout their career. It's

26:02

just maintaining that alignment with sales, you

26:04

know, we are in hyper mode, so

26:07

we are growing extremely quickly, whether

26:09

that be in terms of personnel , whether that be in

26:12

terms of revenue we're generating and

26:14

staying aligned within that is,

26:18

you know, you've gotta hold on tight and you've got

26:20

to build those relationships. And

26:22

I wouldn't say it's not a new challenge. It's

26:25

just something that's top of mind all of the

26:27

time. It really is .

26:28

Yeah , absolutely . And on

26:31

a high what's most exciting

26:33

for you looking forward in the world of B2B marketing?

26:36

Well , being a techie geek, I think I have to say artificial

26:38

intelligence and machine learning, you know, they

26:40

they're playing an important role already, but

26:43

there's so much more to come and

26:45

, um, you know, how they're going

26:47

to help, not only from a marketing perspective,

26:49

you know, help your campaigns be more efficient and more

26:52

effective, but also think about it from, you

26:54

know, prospect perspective on being exposed

26:57

to these ads, really making sure that

26:59

ads, people are being exposed to are

27:02

relevant to your topics and interests and

27:04

kind of eliminating that wastage. We all see , uh

27:07

, has to be good for everybody. And there's, there's loaded

27:09

to come there.

27:10

Absolutely. Well, we've covered a lot there . I

27:12

think this is a really nice kind of tangible

27:14

practical one for anyone listening. I

27:16

think anyone that's in and around the , the B2B

27:19

space and has any involvement in paid social

27:21

, we'll have some great tips and

27:23

tricks there. So yeah, I

27:25

really appreciate it. Jules shared some , some great snippets

27:27

with our audience. So thanks again.

27:29

No problem. It's my pleasure.

27:32

Thanks for listening. Before we go. Just one final

27:34

shout out to our finite partner, 93 X

27:36

the digital marketing agency working exclusively

27:38

with ambitious fast growth, B2B

27:40

tech and SaaS companies visit 93

27:43

x.agency to find out how they partner with marketing teams to

27:45

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27:48

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