0:06

Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode

0:08

of the finite podcast. Today, we're joined by Jad

0:11

Corinth who is currently CMO at Phoenix, a real time

0:13

video streaming solution, and

0:15

Jed's most recent experience. He's had to maintain a focus on

0:18

really educating a market in a new category, using

0:20

the right channels, language to educational

0:22

messaging. And we're gonna be talking about his journey in

0:25

a bit more detail. So I hope you enjoy

0:27

it . Before we dive into the episode, I

0:29

have one quick message before we get started, and that

0:31

is if you haven't already yet make sure to grab

0:33

your free ticket to finite Fest . It's

0:36

our one day virtual conference coming up on

0:38

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0:40

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0:43

set to tackle the current challenges faced by most

0:45

B2B tech marketers. These days from

0:48

battling digital fatigue, to breaking through the boring of

0:50

B2B tech branding. And where is account based

0:52

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0:54

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0:59

at finite.community/finite

1:02

2022 . Enjoy this episode. The

1:05

finite community is kindly supported by

1:07

the marketing practice, a global integrated

1:10

B2B marketing agency that brings together all

1:12

the skills you need to design and run account

1:15

based marketing demand, generation channel,

1:17

and customer marketing programs, head

1:19

to the marketing practice.com to

1:22

more Hello,

1:24

Jad and welcome to the finite podcast.

1:26

My pleasure to be here, Alex. Thanks.

1:28

I'm looking forward to talking. We are gonna

1:30

be diving into, I guess, hearing all about your

1:33

experience and everything you're up to

1:36

in your CMO role at the moment, and talking a bit

1:38

about educating the market. But before we

1:40

do that, I'll let you introduce yourself.

1:42

Tell a bit about your , your experience

1:44

and background and , uh , and your current role.

1:46

Sure. Been an interesting journey for me.

1:49

I've , uh, kind of had two, two

1:51

phases to my career. The first was on

1:54

the corporate side where I spent a long time

1:56

at Sony, mostly on the music side,

1:59

over 11 years , uh, in a variety

2:01

of roles for Columbia

2:03

records, I ran help run the jazz department for

2:05

a little while I was , um, in

2:07

product management, overseeing a

2:10

roster of artists. And then I

2:12

, um, kind of split

2:14

away a little bit and , and , uh, wrote

2:16

a business plan to organize

2:18

kind of a, a , a , a synergistic

2:21

or cross platform group that

2:24

leverage all of the Sony business units,

2:26

PlayStation games, music,

2:29

electronics, et cetera , all under one

2:31

roof, and sort of promote that or

2:33

sell that as a package to corporate

2:35

America did a bunch of deals. There

2:38

ended up doing one with the NFL, which

2:40

then led me to being recruited

2:42

to help run integrated marketing at the NFL,

2:45

which I did for a number of years, which

2:47

was , um , which was a lot of fun. Enjoyed

2:49

it. Then I went on my own,

2:52

kind of started my entrepreneurial career,

2:54

started a couple of companies, one called

2:57

MIMO, where I built , um , which

2:59

is kind of funny because you know, the

3:01

meta or the metaverse has been one of

3:04

the hottest topics now. And what

3:06

most people don't realize is that it's not new,

3:09

you know, avatars and virtual goods

3:11

were around 10,

3:13

12, 15 years ago when we were doing stuff

3:15

with companies like , uh , second life

3:18

and hot , a hotel and different

3:20

virtual worlds that were very popular in those

3:22

days, popular, like to the point where

3:24

10, 15 million people would come in on

3:27

a daily basis. So it was, it was a

3:29

big deal. So we built a

3:31

company around virtual goods for

3:33

the, you know, for these , uh, for these virtual

3:35

worlds. So that was exciting. Uh

3:37

, ended up selling that company 2014

3:40

, did some consulting after that, and

3:42

then joined Phoenix in 2016 where

3:45

I am currently the C uh , chief

3:47

chief marketing officer, where I oversee all of

3:50

our marketing related functions,

3:52

PR social, but I also

3:54

oversee business development because I've

3:56

been doing this for a while and

3:58

have a lot of con in the space. Um

4:00

, you know, I try and help bring in

4:03

some new business opportunities to the company.

4:05

And , um, you know, we're on

4:07

an exciting point , um, which I'm sure

4:09

we'll get into, but I'll sort of leave, leave

4:12

that for next

4:14

<laugh> . Yeah. Sounds good. Well , that's a good, a

4:16

good introduction. Maybe just tell us a little bit about Phoenix

4:18

and, and what you do just to set this scene .

4:21

Sure . So Phoenix is a, is

4:23

a technology company that has

4:25

built a platform that , uh, that

4:27

has solved a number of the streaming

4:29

issues that have been plaguing the industry for

4:31

some time. What makes us interesting

4:34

and unique? Isn't just

4:37

that we stream in what we consider real

4:39

time , we , which is half a

4:41

second from when we get the signal to

4:44

when a fan sees it on their phone

4:46

or device. So it's sort of from the field to

4:48

play to their devices a half a

4:50

second. And it's not just that we can

4:53

scale that to millions of people, and it's not

4:55

just that we can synchronize across all devices.

4:58

So everybody's watching at the same time, it's

5:00

that we do those, and that's

5:02

what makes you know, what our technology

5:04

, uh , what we've built so

5:06

unique because there, although there are very

5:09

few companies that are able to stream

5:11

in real time , nobody's really been

5:13

able to solve the, especially

5:15

the scaling issue. It's, it's

5:18

one thing to deliver to a handful

5:20

of users. It's another, the thing to deliver

5:22

to a hundred, 200, 500,000

5:24

users at the same time without

5:27

losing latency. So that's

5:29

something that we've been able to prove and , uh,

5:31

makes this kind of special.

5:33

Very cool. This is a completely random question, not

5:35

related to you with marketing, but I always was of the impression

5:38

that there had to be some kind of pause or delay

5:40

in streams so that if the

5:42

producer needed to hit the big red button to

5:44

stop something from reaching end users, they

5:47

had a bit of a chance to, you know, someone said a word

5:49

they weren't meant to say, or something like that, half

5:51

a seconds , a short gap.

5:53

So what you're talking about is what

5:55

happens on the broadcast. So

5:58

what happens is, you know, the , you

6:00

know, a , a, the cameras on the field,

6:03

take the pictures and you see it on your television

6:06

about anywhere, depending on

6:08

whether your cable satellite or over

6:10

the air , anywhere from about, you

6:13

know, 5, 6, 7 seconds to

6:15

maybe 15 or, and

6:18

that has the built in delay

6:20

for language wardrobe,

6:23

you know, malfunctions, like we saw in the super bowl

6:25

a number of years ago, but when you're on the digital

6:28

side, when you're streaming, you don't

6:30

have that mandatory delay. You don't

6:32

have to hold back the , the stream at all. So,

6:35

so the idea is to stream it as close to

6:37

the field of play . So as though you're in

6:39

the stadium, watching it without

6:42

any delay at all.

6:43

Interesting, very cool. Well, that leads us nicely

6:45

into, I guess, the topic and, you know , this sounds

6:47

like a , a new and cutting edge technology,

6:50

and you've obviously sounds like you've, you've managed to crack

6:52

something that's not been done before, or

6:54

what people have struggled to do as you say at scale. And

6:56

so you with that comes a degree of

6:59

having to really educate your audience

7:01

and market about, you know , how you, how

7:03

you're different, how you stand out , what you've done. Maybe

7:05

it's always nice to start with a bit of a , a scene setter

7:08

. And when we're talking about educating the market, like

7:10

, what are we, what are we really referring to from your perspective?

7:13

Well, for us, it's, it's a good point. I

7:15

mean, for us, you know, the biggest challenge

7:17

that we have or had,

7:19

and to , to some extent still have not as

7:22

much is when

7:24

we were talking about our technology,

7:27

we never really refer to it as

7:29

live, because live

7:32

is what you see with delay. That's

7:34

what has been defined as you

7:37

know, when you watch to your point of on broadcast when

7:39

there's a broadcast delay or some of the other streaming

7:42

platforms that have delays,

7:44

they're streaming it, quote unquote in

7:47

live . But the problem was the

7:50

terms live and real time were

7:52

being used interchangeably and

7:54

in our mind incorrectly. So

7:57

the first thing that we felt we needed

7:59

to do was educate not

8:02

only the market, but also the media to

8:05

the fact that live and real time

8:07

are not the same. And so those

8:10

are sort of taglines that we

8:12

connect. We came up with with

8:14

our PR firm diffusion,

8:17

that we would go out to the,

8:19

a market and stress,

8:22

the difference between live and

8:24

real time , because we wanted to kind

8:26

of own the lane of

8:28

real time streaming or real time streaming

8:30

technology, and not necessarily

8:33

be sort of lumped into what

8:36

with everybody else that is in

8:38

the kind of live cat . So

8:41

that was a really important aspect

8:44

of the beginning of how we started

8:46

to look at promotion marketing,

8:49

public relations, you know, from

8:51

that perspective.

8:52

And do you think this kind of educational approach

8:55

is more common when brands

8:58

businesses in the B2B tech space are kind

9:01

of almost defining a new category or,

9:04

or where , you know, you gave that example of live

9:06

and real time kind of being used in a, an

9:09

unclear way, an undefined way, to some extent, do

9:11

you think this is more common where, you know , category definition

9:14

is , is kind of a go , would you say you're kind

9:16

of defining a , defining a category in , in

9:18

terms of real time or absolutely.

9:20

A hundred percent ? Yeah , absolutely. Because

9:22

I mean, one could argue that

9:25

what we do isn't necessary

9:27

or, or a necessity for

9:30

every use case. So, you

9:32

know, real time streaming is still

9:34

a, a bit of a niche to some extent,

9:37

although I believe it's not going to

9:39

be, I believe it's, we're headed towards

9:42

a, a win , not an

9:44

if for everybody to join and

9:47

have their streams delivered in real time , but

9:49

at least for now, we're still in a little

9:51

bit of a niche market. So yes, I do think

9:53

that whether you're a startup in

9:55

a new category, or if

9:58

you're a more established company that's

10:00

establishing a new division or a new product

10:02

set, or even a new brand, you

10:05

know, for a larger company, there is

10:07

a certain amount of education that is

10:09

needed to get consumers,

10:12

fans, whatever your , you know, whoever your businesses,

10:16

your marketing to , or selling to, to

10:18

better understand what you're doing, how

10:20

you're doing it and why you're different

10:23

from whoever it is that you're trying to

10:25

separate yourself from.

10:26

You mentioned some of your kind of key personas that I

10:28

wondered to do analysts come up at all. Like the , the kind of,

10:31

almost like the, the gardeners and the, I

10:33

dunno whether there's anyone specifically in your industry,

10:35

but you know , is, is educating those.

10:37

And cause those are the often the , the kind

10:39

of the people that are using terminologies incorrectly

10:42

or defining the categories or putting,

10:44

putting companies in certain boxes .

10:46

You're right . I mean, the , how we measure streaming

10:49

is somewhat new. I think companies

10:51

like Nielsen have added

10:53

a streaming measurement component to

10:56

their pro set . I

10:58

still think it's hard to define and

11:01

how many people are streaming and how many are

11:03

streaming together is still, it's

11:06

a tough one, you know, for them, but for

11:08

us, it wasn't as much those

11:10

companies as the

11:13

media who is kind of talking

11:16

about, you know, what does live

11:18

and how does, you know, when they're streaming live? I

11:20

mean, even companies, I mean, I'm not don't

11:23

mean to call 'em out, but a company like ESPN

11:25

when you watch them on, you know, when

11:27

you watch a , a game on the new television

11:30

and they're promoting another game, that's

11:32

coming up and they'll say, you know, watch

11:34

it on ESPN or live on the ESPN

11:37

app. Well, it's not really

11:39

live <laugh> , you know, because

11:41

unfortunately the technology they

11:44

use comes with a number of

11:46

, you know , a significant delay in their stream.

11:49

So that's why we're trying to differentiate

11:51

between the , the term live and

11:54

the term real time . So I

11:56

mean, to their credit, they don't use real

11:58

time . So, you know, there , there isn't really

12:00

an argument there, but we wanted

12:02

to make sure that nobody is referring

12:05

to us and what we stream as

12:07

live.

12:08

Cool. Makes sense. And what about kind

12:10

of this, this use of channels?

12:12

I mean, if you're taking a kind of educational

12:15

approach, are there specific channels that you

12:17

think of being more a focus for you

12:19

in terms of , you mentioned PR and other things, but

12:22

other areas that you've had to focus on more

12:24

to kind of get that educational messaging

12:26

out there?

12:27

Yeah. I mean, for us, you know, it's a little bit

12:29

of a challenge because we're not a business, you

12:31

know, a B2C company, we're a B2B

12:33

company, certainly it it's, you

12:36

know, you could argue we're B to B , to C , but

12:39

our direct relationship and,

12:41

and our customer is typically another

12:43

business. You know, we're working with content

12:46

owners, rights holders, broadcasters,

12:48

sports leagues agencies that represent

12:51

companies that own content, anybody that

12:53

owns content basically, or the rights to content

12:56

are the people that we do business with. So

12:59

they're the ones that touch the consumer. So

13:02

for us, you know, how do we market

13:04

and how do we educate the

13:06

business community is a little bit more challenging

13:09

cuz we don't have as many tools at

13:11

our disposal, but certainly

13:14

the press, the media conferences,

13:17

places that we can reach other

13:20

businesses in person webinars,

13:23

things of that nature. Those are the tools

13:25

that we've been able to use to

13:27

help us educate the market.

13:30

The finite community and podcast are

13:32

kindly supported by nine , three X, the

13:34

digital marketing agency working exclusively

13:37

with ambitious fast growth B2B

13:39

technology companies visit 93

13:43

x.agency to find out how they partner with marketing

13:45

teams in B2B technology companies to

13:47

drive growth.

13:49

I think what's interesting is just exploring a little bit

13:51

that language being used for this kind of thing. I , I , you

13:53

mentioned their range of different state stakeholders . You talked

13:55

about, I guess, within anything like this, there's

13:58

the usual kind of commercial business decision

14:00

makers. And then there's also the more technical

14:02

ones. And, you know, as with any B2B punch

14:05

decision, what 5,

14:07

10, 15 people involved in, in going with a

14:09

solution such as yourselves. And so kind

14:11

of the , the language within the messaging can be

14:14

hard to get, right? What's your experience being there

14:16

?

14:17

No, it is a language and, and , and

14:19

then , I mean, that's not uncommon, you know, most business have,

14:21

have their own sort of language to some

14:24

extent that's unique to either them or

14:26

to their business, but you're right. I

14:28

mean, it's interesting. One of the things that

14:30

we learned early on was, you

14:33

know, what stakeholders should we be

14:35

talking to ? And initially

14:38

we really focused on the technical

14:40

side of things because we are

14:42

a technology company and our solution is

14:45

a technology solution. So

14:47

we really focused on, you know, the CTO

14:49

and you know, the people in their office. But

14:52

one of the things that we learned over some time

14:55

was that, you know, having the CTO let's

14:57

say in our corner is great, but

15:01

they don't necessarily own the budget. So

15:04

it was important for us to have someone

15:07

on the business side, you know, as

15:10

you get getting involved as early on in the process

15:12

as possible. And in some cases

15:15

now we even speak to

15:17

somebody on the business side, whether it be the CMO

15:20

or, you know, head of business development or,

15:22

you know, different types of roles. We

15:24

sometimes end up speaking to them first because,

15:28

you know, they're the ones that are making the overall

15:30

business decision for their company and

15:32

taking the company in a certain direction. So

15:35

invariably they will bring in tech

15:38

people because they have to evaluate our

15:40

technology, but it's not that

15:42

unusual for us to begin the , the

15:45

dialogue on the business side and then bring in

15:47

kind of the techno uh , the technical stakeholders.

15:50

And so from your own kind of marketing

15:52

messaging perspective, do you focus

15:55

on the business message and the

15:57

commercial message more than anything and, and

15:59

the , the , the kind of technical messaging is secondary

16:01

to that ?

16:02

You know , I would say that we, we , we're trying to

16:04

balance it a little bit . We are

16:07

now at a point where for

16:09

the first time where gonna

16:12

start branching out from a marketing perspective

16:14

and do some things that we haven't done in

16:17

the past, like search engine optimization

16:19

and keywords , things of that

16:21

nature, we're gonna be bringing on, you

16:24

know, a new , uh , marketing automation tool. We,

16:26

I recently hired a new director of product marketing

16:29

who comes from a little bit more of the technical

16:32

side of things, which is great because I,

16:34

my background isn't technical. So

16:37

this is a person that's gonna really serve this

16:39

kind of my right hand and help me, you

16:42

know, assess things from a more technical

16:44

marketing perspective. So we're gonna look

16:46

at things a little bit differently, but

16:49

the idea of , of what we're trying to do

16:51

is try and , uh , bring

16:53

in a little bit more balance to what we've done

16:55

in the past and have

16:57

it not just be press and PR, but

17:00

also add some SEO. Obviously

17:03

conferences will always be important to us,

17:06

but, you know, trying to expand the

17:08

marketing, trying and do a little bit more with

17:11

social media, LinkedIn is

17:13

a great, is a great avenue for

17:15

us, cuz it's a sort of more business oriented

17:17

social network. So there

17:19

are , you know, so there are things that we wanna try

17:21

and do more of that we haven't

17:24

done in the past.

17:25

Are there examples of more educational

17:27

kind of campaigns or things that you , you have done that,

17:29

you know , you've done as you know , with educational

17:32

side of things in mind, I dunno whether you approach

17:34

things as a marketing team from more of

17:36

a kind of campaign basis or more of a kind of always

17:38

on approach, but it's always interesting to hear how,

17:40

how different CMOs structure their, their campaigns

17:43

and no ,

17:43

Absolutely. So, you know, what

17:45

we've done is, you know,

17:48

we had this tagline, as I mentioned

17:50

before, live and real time are not the same. And

17:53

that was something that we went out with for

17:56

probably the first two or three years of

17:58

our existence and certainly our work

18:00

with diffusion and kind of spreading

18:02

that message across, but over

18:05

the past, probably 12

18:08

to 18 months or so maybe

18:11

a little bit more we've changed a

18:13

tagline and changed the approach to

18:15

a more direct kind of

18:18

a , you know, taking advantage of our value

18:20

proposition. So our tagline

18:22

now is real time in sync

18:24

at scale. And the reason for

18:26

that is so we can speak directly to

18:29

the three pillars, as I mentioned before, the

18:31

three pillars of what our technology

18:34

solves right up front . So

18:36

there's, you know, there's sort of, no, <laugh>

18:38

, there's no guessing as to what we

18:40

bring to the table and, you

18:42

know, I wanted it to be that way. So we

18:45

can really talk and educate

18:47

the market in a way that, you know, Hey,

18:49

for the first few years it was, we're

18:52

a new company. We're a real

18:54

time streaming technology. We're not live.

18:56

This is how we differentiate ourselves. Now

18:59

that we're a little bit more established, this

19:01

is what we really do, and this is what

19:03

we do well. So it's

19:05

now kind of, you know, educating, it's

19:08

kind of step two in the educat of

19:11

, of how we're marketing ourselves.

19:14

And would you say that's become more kind of direct

19:16

in terms of, and maybe this becomes with that evolution

19:18

of, you know , you're defining a category or

19:20

educating the market early on, but

19:22

then do you reach a stage where you

19:25

can be a lot more direct again about features

19:27

and benefits and what the technology does? And

19:30

because I think a lot of B2B companies are too quick to jump to,

19:33

as you said before, talking about just the technology,

19:35

how the product works, what it does, you know,

19:37

the , the , the solutions and less

19:40

about the, the value

19:42

created. Do you feel like now you're heading back

19:44

more towards that kind of direct

19:47

Yeah . A hundred percent . And, and I think it's, you

19:49

know, it's a , it's a fine line and you make a

19:51

good point. It's a fine line as to when you make

19:53

that change and how you kind

19:55

of switch from one campaign

20:00

to, you know, to the next one or how you

20:02

graduate, if you will. So that was

20:04

important. And I felt like, it

20:07

just felt like the time was right. We had, you

20:10

know, we had bigger, we had signed

20:12

Verizon to a much bigger deal. You

20:15

know, it was a point in our career where the

20:17

company's life cycle , if you will, where

20:20

the conversations we were having with much

20:22

bigger companies. So I

20:24

thought it was necessary to make a change and

20:27

be more direct to your point and

20:29

really speak to exactly what we do.

20:32

So we could sort of speed

20:35

up if you will, the conversations

20:37

to get to exactly what we do, how we

20:39

do it, what the business model is.

20:42

You know, those are things that in the earlier days,

20:45

you know, took us a little bit longer to get

20:47

to, but now it's, you

20:49

know, who's the client, what are they looking for?

20:51

What are their pain points? How can

20:53

we solve the problems, you know, et

20:56

cetera . So I think that's where we are

20:58

now.

20:58

And how does that help from a, I guess , a competitor

21:01

differentiation perspective? Like I , I know

21:03

, and I dunno whether you are , are you competing against the

21:06

more kind of legacy live streamers

21:08

rather than the realtime? So I assume there might be other competitors

21:11

in the, kind of the, the realtime

21:13

space as well.

21:15

Yes, I would say, you know, there's still a little bit

21:17

of both. There are still some of the legacy players

21:19

out there that look, I mean, you

21:21

know, it's, as I said, you know, not every

21:23

use case, you know, has to have real

21:26

time streaming. So, you know,

21:28

in some cases, somebody may say

21:30

five or 10 seconds is enough, is

21:32

fine. You know, we don't need to lower

21:34

it. And in most cases, the

21:37

reason for that is the

21:39

companies, the content owners, whether it be a broadcaster

21:42

or whatnot , the tech stacks that

21:44

they have have been built on legacy

21:47

technology. So for them to

21:49

go ahead and change it to

21:51

what we want to have them ultimately

21:54

do, you know, requires a commitment

21:57

and a decision, you know, from senior management

22:00

to make that change. And we're

22:02

not blind to the fact that there's money that needs to

22:04

be spent to make that change and resources

22:07

have to be re allocated. But

22:09

look, I mean, selfish, we look at, we look

22:11

at it as a step back for three ahead.

22:14

So we're really convinced that the

22:16

market is gonna have to go there. It's

22:18

just a matter of timing. Consumers

22:20

are starting to flock to social media more

22:23

and more and talk about their

22:25

streams delayed and it's buffered and,

22:27

you know, the qualities and great , and it's

22:30

dropping and things of that nature. So ultimately

22:33

over time that just can't

22:35

be the norm anymore. And it doesn't have to

22:37

be since there's, you know, technology from

22:40

company like ours that have solved those issues.

22:42

So yeah, I think it, you know, the time is

22:44

getting close.

22:45

Absolutely. Well , we're pretty much outta

22:47

time. I was gonna ask you maybe one final question that's

22:50

to end on a end on a positive, which was

22:52

gonna be , um, I guess what you are , what you're

22:54

kind of most excited about in the, in the B2B marketing

22:56

world with your, with your CMO hat on

22:58

, like, what are you excited about? You mentioned some of the things you're

23:01

looking at at kind of testing out new new

23:03

things and some of SEO and pay channels and stuff. Are

23:05

there any other things that you are kind excited about

23:07

as, as 22, 20 22 gets

23:10

underway?

23:11

Yeah, well, I think, you know, for us, the , the

23:13

, the world of sports betting has become, you

23:15

know, a very important space for us

23:18

and, you know, it's, it's almost

23:22

not all the states, but they're more than half the

23:24

states now have some sort of betting legislation.

23:27

So, you know, we're gonna , we're

23:29

starting to talk to, so some of the sports books directly

23:32

and, you know, looking at, you know, marketing

23:34

and even potentially some advertising

23:36

with some of them, you know, doing some, you

23:39

know, even I would dare to say cons

23:41

more consumer oriented advertising.

23:44

So people out there know who we

23:46

are and what we're able to do, and

23:48

the types of things that we are powering.

23:50

So I'm pretty excited about getting into

23:52

that a little bit more and, you know, just

23:56

the technology changes so quickly that, you

23:59

know , you have to try and keep up to keep up. So pretty

24:01

exciting times though, for sure.

24:03

Yeah, absolutely. I , I think a lot of , to be tech

24:05

companies overlook the partnership marketing

24:07

side of things and doing kind of joint joint

24:09

campaigns. So if you've , yeah , if you've got those partnerships then

24:12

sounds like a

24:15

Company you keep , right. I mean, it's , especially

24:17

for companies that aren't as well established

24:19

sometimes by partnering with somebody who is

24:21

a little bit more established, you know , like , look

24:24

, I mean , partnering with Verizon gave

24:26

us a lot of credibility in the market and, you

24:28

know, having that type of relationship means

24:31

something because if they felt like they

24:33

comfortable, they're comfortable enough, you

24:36

know, working with us well , then

24:38

other companies could too. So that's where it

24:40

goes.

24:41

Yeah . Yeah . Cool. Exciting times . So

24:43

I'm looking forward to keeping an eye on how , uh , how everything could

24:45

, but in the meantime, thank you for,

24:48

for joining the podcast and for , uh , for sharing all

24:50

your experiences with us.

24:51

My pleasure, Alex, thanks for having me.

24:54

Thanks for listening. We're super busy

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