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1:15

your first purchase. Hello,

1:22

welcome to this episode of the Flats and Shanks pod.

1:24

I am actually becoming the introduction now, aren't I? Master

1:27

of ceremonies. Yeah, you are. The

1:30

ringmaster. Yeah,

1:34

you are. An old, old name I used to

1:36

go by. The Egomaniac.

1:38

You're an Egomaniac. You're a Mike Hogg. Just

1:42

before we came online, I said, this is going to

1:44

have to be a rugby one. And you winced. But

1:47

you bottom lit and said, yeah. You said let's do a bit more.

1:49

Let's do a bit more. You said we've got to do a bit

1:51

more. And I think you're probably, you're a lot of things. You're bang

1:53

on. You're bang on, right?

1:55

Yeah. Now I'm going to start this on a negative. standard

2:01

yeah well that's standard for you

2:03

not for me we obviously

2:05

had quite a lot reviews after my last

2:07

plea and I sort of feel

2:11

like frank is that why we're doing more rugby because you

2:13

read them all and they say not enough rugby I feel

2:15

like Frankenstein for life created a monster there's

2:19

a couple of nice ones I could

2:21

try and find it now it

2:23

had I don't know

2:26

I don't think I'm gonna be able to find it how

2:28

can I find the reviews oh here

2:30

we are there's quite a few

2:32

good ones how I

2:35

would describe this when I look at

2:38

it is like you're out on the

2:40

town and

2:43

you've ignored your misses and

2:46

all of a sudden then you get an essay through but

2:48

you're trying to read ten points deep at

2:51

best naively at

2:54

worst arrogantly two

2:57

men have decided that given their

2:59

growing well-deserved media presence they are

3:01

now interested enough to chat harmlessly

3:03

enough between each other whilst expecting

3:05

the listener to be entertained secretly

3:08

I think they know they're absolutely not but

3:10

now make it look like they're aware of

3:12

it having retrospectively dress it up as

3:15

the main virtue of the show it's

3:17

a very difficult read this so you have to excuse

3:19

me why are you reading it I don't understand why

3:21

you're reading it because we

3:23

read the praise ones last week so

3:26

we have to give it contact yeah

3:30

sometimes David Flattman appears

3:32

painfully aware of it and seemingly reluctant to

3:34

be involved at all they

3:37

confuse entertainment with their fields of interest

3:39

namely TV food family stories where you

3:41

need to be there cars and rugby

3:45

I like these things too unfortunately

3:49

they just don't have the skill to make

3:51

the first five interests and are entertaining

3:53

and the sixth barely features rugby

3:57

it's then you realize their ex-rubby players now

3:59

pundits who

4:02

don't like to veer too far away from their

4:04

main interest. If you

4:06

get this down the pub, but you also might find

4:08

yourself looking around for a different conversation, it's a real

4:10

shame. I've listened since the first

4:13

EPP and Je... I don't know why

4:15

he's put EPP when he spells every other single word full.

4:18

And generally, like them both, but

4:21

their friendship, shared past and

4:23

chat doesn't stretch to

4:25

a weekly upload. And

4:27

that is... Joe

4:31

Struthers. Don't name

4:33

him. I used to like this. Well,

4:36

it's there mate, it's

4:39

here. It's on our review page. Now...

4:42

Fair enough mate. Fair enough mate.

4:44

Fair enough mate. Fair enough. Fair

4:47

enough mate. Fair enough. Fair enough. Now

4:50

we did this, I did this, we asked for a plea just

4:52

for a little bit of a confidence boost and that's

4:55

taken me right back down now. That's

4:57

like reading Twitter after you've done a game online.

5:00

A big game as well. Yeah,

5:03

you mustn't do that. I

5:05

need to stop someone to name. You

5:07

mustn't do that. You

5:10

mustn't ever look... Because the thing is, when

5:13

you... I reckon... If

5:15

there's a hundred of us, which

5:17

there isn't, say there's 50 of

5:21

us who do games, I

5:24

reckon 48

5:26

of us go on

5:28

Twitter within 30 minutes

5:30

of the final whistle to see what people have said.

5:34

And it's really hard not to because people are talking

5:36

about you and if people are talking about you in

5:38

a room and you know

5:40

they are, you would rather have ears on

5:42

the conversation than not. That's

5:46

almost everybody I expect. But actually what

5:49

happens is there

5:52

will always be... Like

5:54

there will always be... I don't care if there was... Oh, what

5:57

happened the other week? There

6:02

was an article in a paper, a newspaper, I

6:04

don't know what paper it was, but

6:06

it was about Sir Clyde

6:09

Woodward stepping down from TV work, right, so

6:11

he's not doing the Six Nations and not

6:13

doing it anymore. So that

6:15

was in the paper and

6:18

then in the comments section, obviously underneath,

6:20

I just get this screenshot from my

6:22

mate from school who thinks he's funny

6:24

and in a screenshot it's

6:26

just like someone

6:28

says something like, can

6:31

we have more David Fleckman please? No

6:34

more of him, he's

6:36

nowhere near as good as he thinks

6:38

he is or something like that, correct? So

6:41

my mate then sends, so

6:44

I said like what's this, he goes don't worry, there

6:46

were hundreds of nice ones and

6:49

it's like but this is my favourite. So

6:51

it's kind of like if you

6:54

go looking you will find

6:56

something unpleasant that someone

6:58

just in passing has said about you and

7:00

it's kind of I don't see why you

7:02

go looking when you know

7:04

it's there. Well I do, it's part of

7:06

the human condition somehow but I

7:09

don't see why you go looking. I

7:11

don't care Dave, you know that, not

7:13

at all. I felt

7:16

bad that we gave ourselves a bit of praise last

7:18

week so I just wanted to bring us back down

7:20

to terra firma to say look

7:22

we're not perfect, near

7:25

enough. Joe from Luton thinks you're

7:27

crap. Like

7:35

there is a back row who plays for

7:37

Bath, I won't say his name because it's not

7:39

fair because he's just one of the players and

7:42

my neighbour walked past the other day and said

7:44

kar, he was good wasn't he against Toulouse and

7:47

I said he was, I thought

7:49

he was really good actually and

7:52

what this neighbour doesn't know is that

7:55

about three months ago or six

7:57

months ago we were chatting down.

8:00

the road and we say

8:02

he said who's starting in this position and I

8:04

said his name and he goes oh God

8:06

just do not say I watched ever I

8:08

watched I watch all the games which every

8:10

game he's played he just does nothing he

8:12

does absolutely nothing and you're

8:14

like that is actually sort of Twitter isn't it

8:16

he's allowed to think that I mean we

8:19

think about people we watch all the time good and

8:21

bad you don't you know we verbalize

8:23

some of it you don't verbalize all of it

8:25

it's not appropriate or it doesn't help or it's

8:28

not relevant whatever but you

8:30

think well whatever you do

8:32

like Brad Pitt is an amazing actor there

8:34

will be many many many people

8:37

who think he's crap doesn't mean

8:39

he's crap you know you know I mean I

8:42

didn't know you felt so strongly on it I

8:46

find it I find it I

8:48

love it if I've got

8:51

something negative to say on social media or

8:54

whatever I don't say it because

8:56

I think there is literally no point to this

8:58

there is literally no point to this there's no

9:00

screen grab the other day and when

9:02

said said what was the point

9:04

of Tom Shanklin from some sort of

9:07

Facebook I'm

9:11

sure I look it's like you

9:13

make to send you them through yeah

9:15

it's always you make it's brilliant but we had that

9:17

before right I'm going off social media and it's like

9:19

no no because you might still send you the abuse

9:21

they will still screenshot and send it to you that's

9:24

what happened there was no lots of nice reviews but

9:26

I just thought I had to read this one it's

9:28

the worst one we've had for a while just

9:32

to give it balance David you know because we don't want to

9:34

get big yet I kind of I

9:37

I sometimes feel like I should be listening

9:39

to more I do

9:42

listen to podcasts but I should

9:44

be listening to more sports podcasts

9:47

because you know so much of

9:49

what we do is in that world and why

9:51

do you want to make when there's so

9:53

many serial killer podcast out there well exactly

9:55

well exactly but I just I just find

9:58

myself like I I really like all guys

10:00

that do them like Jonesy and Oogs

10:02

or he liked those guys. Yeah, I

10:04

listen to them. There's a lot I listen to. I

10:07

will listen to the Scrum 5 podcast. Nikki

10:11

Robinson basically makes me just

10:13

get the numbers up. But I

10:16

will listen to them mostly during sort of

10:18

high peak weekend in

10:20

sport. So through the Six Nations

10:23

through like

10:27

I don't know local Darby's Welsh Darby's.

10:29

Yeah, it does give you it is

10:32

quite analytical. And

10:34

it's good. Yeah, it's good for prep

10:36

as well. Because you might find some notice and

10:38

information that you haven't found research in yourself. So

10:41

it is always good. I have found a pretty

10:43

decent new one though. It

10:46

was called and it is called

10:48

real survival stories. Oh, right.

10:51

So we're no longer on sports podcasts here. No,

10:55

but I've just I've just before I forget,

10:57

I want to tell you that that's a

10:59

good one. But yeah, okay. What sports ones

11:01

do you listen to? Well,

11:05

I listen to the ruck the times podcasts. Quite

11:08

a lot. Right there. Yeah,

11:11

I listened to that. Alex

11:13

Loew and Will Keller and Stuart Barnes when he's on

11:15

it. I really like that one. I think it's really

11:18

good. Al Dimock's on it quite a

11:20

lot as well. Just

11:22

bright guys, obviously, we know from playing

11:25

days and all that stuff.

11:27

But and now as sort of

11:29

fellow media types, I think they they

11:32

offer quite interesting perspectives on things. And, you

11:35

know, it was quite interesting listening to what

11:38

you'd call the mainstream media around

11:41

the time that they

11:43

were being blamed from some

11:45

quarters for Owen Farrell's, you

11:49

know, for, well, for a portion

11:51

of Owen Farrell's. What

11:53

would you call it? Or

11:56

mental health or poor mental well being. So it was

11:58

kind of that that was. quite an interesting

12:01

listen. But I

12:03

listened to that, but otherwise I kind of

12:05

listened to books. I worry

12:07

not worry. I don't worry. Yeah,

12:09

I do like the kids to the

12:12

kids to school this morning. And I've got a,

12:14

I couldn't even tell you what it's called the

12:16

book I'm listening to, but I'm really enjoying it. So I get about

12:18

four minutes on the way home from school. Mr.

12:20

Rain is bloody strong. Mr. Strong

12:23

sick, called. What's it called? But

12:27

yeah, there is no I find

12:31

I can't imagine a there

12:33

are people that we often get messages that we

12:36

obviously don't read out because it's gross. But where

12:39

people say I've listened since day one, and we meet

12:41

you probably meet people a lot of

12:43

the time everywhere you go. I meet people

12:45

about the places I go. Yes, they always

12:47

go. They always go. Where's shanks? Like, I

12:49

am shanks. I am shanks. Where's, where's, where's

12:52

Ben? Like, they miss. Yeah, but he'll good

12:54

fun. Everyone's lovely. Like, you know, and those

12:57

gags are not original. But that's why they're funny,

12:59

because they're exactly what you expect to come and

13:01

they come. So it's great. And people are lovely.

13:03

But I can't imagine, you

13:07

know, I don't think I have the capacity to

13:09

listen to every episode of one podcast for year

13:11

after year, I just don't have

13:13

that I told you I listened to a

13:16

couple of Joe Rogan podcasts, and I found a

13:18

couple of them really interesting and funny and the

13:20

MMA ones UFC ones I found interesting. And then

13:22

like, it goes off

13:24

in some directions where I kind of think, I

13:27

don't know if I'm as comfortable with that

13:29

as I was with the last pod where you were

13:31

just talking about leg

13:33

kicks, you know, does anyone ever

13:36

call you shanks? Yeah,

13:38

well, fine. Oh, good. Because you

13:41

and flat they say to me you and

13:44

flat. He's in a running order. Gary Jenkins

13:46

had created the other day. What game was

13:48

it? I think it was it was

13:52

Cardiff Quinn's and

13:54

in the running order, he had put

13:56

Sarah chat

13:58

with flats. Do

14:02

you know what, these weekends, like I was at Sarri's on the Lyon

14:04

game on Saturday night, the

14:14

late one, and

14:16

the number of games, when you're at home and

14:18

you're a punter, quite rightly you just sit there

14:21

and the game starts and you watch it, but

14:24

the number of games and the number of boxes

14:26

they've got to tick and the

14:29

detail they've got to get into to get

14:31

all these shows live, all these games live,

14:33

cheap as it is. Yeah, it's

14:35

hard. It's enough. It's hard just to retain. You

14:37

leave home and there's a game on and there's

14:40

three more games on before you start your game

14:42

and there's another game after yours and you're like,

14:44

how are they doing this? I know, because if

14:46

you're doing two games or three games over the

14:48

weekend, it's so hard to retain all that information

14:50

about six different teams. So

14:52

when you're writing, running orders and you're producing the

14:55

show, it is just as

14:57

hard to retain information.

15:00

I can probably retain enough for two games.

15:03

After that, it's gone. I have to relook

15:06

at notes, switch

15:08

yourself off because so much

15:11

information. It can actually get

15:13

really confusing. And

15:15

a game ends, we're at

15:17

the Sarri's game and a game elsewhere ends.

15:19

I've forgotten what game now. But

15:22

the game ends elsewhere. And

15:25

it's like three minutes after

15:27

it ends, we're getting updates on

15:29

our game specific WhatsApp group about

15:32

the permutations of that result and our result.

15:34

And I'm like, this is from the guy

15:36

who's writing all the running orders and running

15:39

the show. You're like, mate, this guy has

15:41

got like an unbelievable brain capacity for data.

15:44

Like, he's not just a stats guy. Wow.

15:47

Amazing. Martin Gillanham is always good for that.

15:49

Yeah. He

15:54

upskilled me on the weekend

15:56

because of the challenge cut game,

15:59

Dragons vs. Sharks and I

16:02

actually forgot that the two

16:04

best teams in third place

16:07

also get a home draw in

16:09

the Challenge Cup. Yeah. Now

16:12

you know. I just totally forgot

16:14

about. Do the teams that drop down

16:17

from Champions to Challenge automatically have home

16:19

game? We'll

16:22

ask Martin. But

16:25

I knew, I knew, he knew

16:27

what he's talking about because when someone says,

16:30

I'm happy to be challenged, they

16:32

know they're right. Yeah. And he

16:34

started off the conversation with that and I was like, oh, well

16:36

done. Yeah, he

16:39

knows his onions. On Owen Farrell because that's

16:41

the big news that's come out. Yeah. It

16:44

was usually breakfast. Yeah. It was

16:46

released yesterday. Hey,

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17:24

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17:26

Music is included with your Prime membership.

17:29

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17:32

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17:34

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17:36

for thousands of ACAT shows, ad-free for Prime subscribers. Some shows may have ads. Wow.

17:40

Nice. Yeah. What

17:42

you're hearing are the sounds of people

17:45

everywhere putting on Bamba socks, underwear, and

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T-shirts made from absurdly soft materials that

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your first purchase. That's bombas.com/acast

18:07

code ACAST. What

18:14

do you think of luxury time at first? I think

18:17

it's great. I think it's great.

18:20

I wanted to go and get a

18:23

hundred million dollar contract. Like I think it's amazing

18:25

and I like the NFL

18:27

but I'm by no means a proper fan

18:29

or you know

18:32

I don't I don't I'm not knowledgeable

18:34

in any way but I've kind of

18:36

read about these attempted conversions and sort

18:38

of preseason assessment camps kind of thing.

18:41

I've read about them a few times

18:43

before and I'm reading a

18:45

little bit about them this time and it's it's

18:48

quite interesting when

18:50

you in terms of like raw

18:52

genetics and the attributes he's got you think well

18:55

it could really work but actually somebody

18:58

I don't know who was I can't remember was

19:00

writing about well there are certain positions where it's

19:02

kind of genetics it's kind

19:04

of what have you got physically and there

19:06

are other positions which are skill positions and

19:09

the skill positions in those

19:11

positions you are competing against guys who in

19:14

the majority of cases have been doing this since they

19:16

were children so it's going to be far more natural

19:20

you know far more natural and a

19:23

default skill and default movements for them and then

19:25

you've got the running patterns I'm sure

19:27

he can do because he's an amazing athlete but

19:29

it's yes it's a different ball but it's the fact that he's

19:32

wearing loads of kit and catching in a helmet and wearing a

19:34

helmet with a face grid on it and the face guard on

19:36

it and all that sort of stuff so I you

19:39

know from everything I read and

19:42

it appears

19:44

very unlikely that he will in inverted commas

19:46

make it which means very unlikely that he

19:49

will play a number of seasons in the

19:51

NFL as a as a

19:53

you know an actual an active player but

19:57

I really really really hope he does and I hope

19:59

he defies the odds and goes over there and kills

20:01

it and if he doesn't he could be back in time

20:04

definitely for the next World Cup potentially in time

20:06

for Alliance Tour so why not

20:09

have a crack? Chase your dreams

20:11

mate he's yeah 20 he's come up to 23 years

20:14

old time is on his

20:16

side he's young his father

20:18

played American

20:20

football I think for a British team his

20:23

father actually really good looking bloke as well and

20:26

see where he gets it right so

20:28

yeah I blame Graham

20:31

Flattman mate Jim Shanklin

20:34

yeah wow we turned out and

20:37

if it doesn't work he was over there

20:39

for a year or two then he's got so

20:42

much youth on his side that the clubs

20:44

will be queuing up to pick him up and it's

20:46

it's a great experience and there's something they can look

20:48

back when he's retired to think yeah

20:50

you know I went over there like

20:53

Robbie Williams like take that

20:55

I try to break America maybe

20:57

it happens maybe it doesn't maybe turns into like

21:01

a celebrity out there yeah did

21:03

it the Beatles did it maybe maybe

21:07

other opportunities arise maybe

21:10

becomes a bit of a celeb because he's gonna

21:12

be quite a high profile from over he's the

21:14

biggest well Christian Wade was a big

21:16

star but like Louis Risam is another

21:19

level in my opinion well

21:21

not it's not just your opinion he's a he's a a

21:24

liar he's a international player in

21:26

Alliance so yeah another level yeah

21:28

yeah so and I

21:30

hope it goes I hope it goes well for him

21:32

but you're right it is a really highly skillful game

21:35

yeah it's where they it was where they

21:37

pick him where they where they

21:39

decide to play him which

21:41

is gonna be difficult but I

21:44

think it's brilliant mate I'm I'm so happy for him

21:46

that he's he's taking a risk and

21:48

thought you know I'm gonna go over there and try and crack

21:50

it I'm gonna try and make

21:52

it and if I don't then I'll come

21:54

back and carry on as

21:56

I have so all for

21:58

it mate all for it It's

22:02

a shame, I've got to know that we're losing them,

22:04

especially in a big tournament that's coming up now for

22:06

the Six Nations because I

22:09

think we would have seen him be his

22:12

start on 15, which

22:14

would have enabled us to get

22:17

more ball in Louis Rees-Sammits hands, maybe

22:19

play more of a counter-attack game, more of

22:21

a running game at 15, less kicking, less

22:24

pragmatic, which I think is all good for

22:26

Wales. And now

22:29

we're searching for another 15 for the

22:31

Six Nations now, and who's going to play there?

22:34

Might be Joanne Lloyd, might be Josh Adams, might be Joanne

22:36

Lloyd at 15. Not

22:39

sure how fit he is, mate. I think

22:41

he's going to miss the first two games.

22:43

He bust his jaw against Quinns, so yeah,

22:45

he looks good. He looks good. So

22:48

then Owen Farrell, leave him. Yeah,

22:51

and it's not held free, so. Can't

22:54

play for England. You can't play for England, is that right?

22:56

Yeah, that's right. Two-year

22:59

deal. Subactical, really.

23:02

Like a lot of players do. I think it's, yeah,

23:04

get away. I mean, it's not like he's going for a rest.

23:06

He's going, it'd be harder there than it is here. Because

23:09

there's more games. Kiwi players do

23:11

that. Kiwi players do that. They leave New

23:13

Zealand for a couple of years, come back.

23:16

Some do go to Japan, some go to France, but

23:19

they're still taking two years out of playing international

23:21

rugby. So he's gone for two years. So

23:26

I think I'm right

23:28

in saying I'm here to

23:30

be challenged. What does Gillett say? Yeah,

23:32

yeah. Here to be challenged. But

23:37

he can still play for the Lions, and obviously Andy

23:40

Farrell being the head coach. So

23:42

he could still play for the Lions even though he plays

23:45

for Rassing, and it could be back in

23:47

time for another World Cup if he fancied a tilt at that.

23:50

But good for him. I mean, it's not like

23:52

he's stepping down in profile

23:55

and visibility, but he is in

23:57

UK terms, and he feels uncomfortable in.

24:00

and the UK now, and he's made

24:02

that very clear, or at least the statements we've read

24:04

have made that very clear. So, good

24:07

on him. And I'm sure

24:09

he's getting well looked after, I'm sure he'll have

24:11

a great time surrounding a lot of brilliant players.

24:13

And actually, he could be a brilliant signing for

24:15

them because this whole French

24:17

flair thing, I think they're wrestling in particular, they

24:20

have a lot of players who can do amazing

24:22

things. And actually, Owen might

24:24

add a bit of structure to

24:26

that. He's got an excellent kicking game, he's got a lot of kick

24:28

points, he's actually got a brilliant... attacking

24:31

really wide away. Sam Gorn again.

24:34

Sam Gorn again. I

24:37

literally don't know why. It's just going to

24:39

be the internet connection we got, I saw. Oh,

24:41

right. So,

24:44

I think his kicking points, his

24:47

passing game, his

24:49

short kicking game and his defensive

24:51

facility could be exactly what wrestling need to take

24:53

them up a notch. Already a good team, but

24:56

take them up a notch, you

24:58

couldn't exactly call signing Owen Farol

25:00

a canny piece of recruitment. He is an

25:02

established international player and they will

25:04

have paid the odds and got a really good

25:06

player. But actually, I think he is very likely

25:08

a very good signing for wrestling because they've got

25:10

a lot of players that do amazing things. But

25:13

actually, Owen perhaps offer a bit more shape, a

25:15

bit more structure. His part of the game

25:17

is fantastic, kicks a lot of points, defensive

25:19

solidity. He's not really a 10 that you

25:21

target. You tend to go inside

25:23

or outside him if you're targeting players. So,

25:26

I think really, really

25:28

good signing for wrestling. Hope he's brilliant for them, hope

25:30

he has a great time and

25:32

all that. So, and actually, things

25:34

aren't brilliant at Saris. They really kicked into gear.

25:36

And we'll talk about this in a second, the

25:38

second half against Lee on the

25:40

other night. But actually, they have looked ragged for

25:43

a couple of weeks. So, yeah, it's

25:46

an interesting one. Mark McCall's talked about it being the end of

25:48

an era and it does have that feeling about it. What do

25:50

you make of it? I

25:52

think it's great. I think mentally, it'll

25:54

freshen them up massively, often

25:57

as England players and England captain,

25:59

especially. especially you're under a lot

26:02

of pressure if the team doesn't

26:04

perform because of how much budget

26:06

England have, the teams

26:08

they've got, the richest union, all

26:11

of this comes into effect and

26:13

people are constantly looking for a reason why

26:15

England don't perform. You look

26:17

at them and you said it before that they

26:19

probably should win every single tournament with the resources

26:21

they've got and the funding they've got but rugby

26:23

isn't as simple as that at all and

26:27

he takes, he's in front

26:29

of that, a lot of it with the

26:31

head coach so I can honestly

26:34

see why he would have wanted to leave.

26:36

He's done many many years in

26:39

England, you know, people like

26:42

him or don't like him, he's a bit marmite.

26:44

For me he's brilliant, I love watching him play

26:47

and he's a type of player that

26:50

you'd want to play with in your

26:52

team. There has been some issues with

26:54

him, discipline wise and there

26:56

has been red cards and there has been tackles

26:59

and people jump on the back of that and

27:01

he gets so much stick

27:03

for it. I can

27:05

really see why he wants to leave and imagine just

27:08

waking up in Paris and just thinking I don't

27:10

have to deal with all of that anymore. I

27:12

can have two years stress

27:15

free apart from obviously having to

27:17

perform for your club but not being

27:19

international captain, not having that

27:22

pressure and all that stress that comes with that.

27:24

I think it's a great thing to prolong his career and

27:27

you're right, he's still eligible for the Lions, he'll be

27:29

an Alliance if he wants to because

27:32

you need someone like that. You

27:36

need a winner, you

27:38

need someone who plays, he's

27:42

not pragmatic but he's

27:44

stretched in the way he wants to play and

27:46

you need that because you can't all be

27:49

like Finn Russell's, you

27:51

need that ying and yang and he's

27:54

a massive part of that. So yep,

27:56

good on him mate, he's done his yards, he's done

27:58

his hard yards at England, he's done his time

28:00

there why not go out and have

28:02

two years away from international rugby and

28:05

live a bit more of a stress-free life. So

28:08

who did you start at 10 for England? George Ford,

28:10

Marcus Smith or Finn Smith? One

28:16

of the Smiths, yes. Did

28:19

you start with your Marcus Smith? No, Marcus Smith.

28:22

Marcus Smith? Yeah. Who

28:24

did you have at Centre?

28:27

Ollie Lawrence at 13. Yep.

28:32

And maybe,

28:36

maybe Henry Slade

28:38

at 12. That

28:41

way round? Mm-hmm. You

28:43

don't want the big lad at 12? I

28:46

think he's much more of a better,

28:48

he's a better strike rather than Slade. Slade's

28:51

a Rolls-Royce. Slade reminds me of Gasket now,

28:53

but he's also a playmaker as well. I

28:55

just think Lawrence is the form 13

28:57

at the moment. Why

29:00

would you want to take that away from him and put

29:02

him at 12 where there's less room? He'll

29:04

end up being a crash

29:07

ball merchant, giving him game line, which

29:09

he can do, but he's

29:12

so much better with a bit more space and a bit

29:14

more time. I don't

29:16

know if you saw him crashing it, if you

29:18

saw the Toulouse bath game at the weekend, but

29:21

Ollie Lawrence coming off the back of those line-outs,

29:23

flat ball off nine, brutal. One of

29:25

them he just scored from, he just went straight through and

29:27

scored, but just brutal coming off that line. And

29:30

I suppose if he's at 13, he can still do that off

29:32

first phase. Easy. You put him where you want him,

29:34

yeah. Easy. But I just think he's playing

29:36

that well flat at 13. Why would you want to mess

29:38

around and move him inside a little bit?

29:41

I tell you, one player who, I'm

29:44

always surprised, isn't talked about

29:46

more as an

29:50

option at 12 for England is Fraser Dingwall. Just

29:53

such a good player. He does such nice things.

29:55

Whoever's playing at 13 per cent, Rory Hutchinson or

29:57

Tommy Freeman, he does such nice things all the

29:59

time. as one

30:01

of the Saints guys said to me, he's

30:03

not the biggest, he's not the quickest, he's

30:06

not the strongest, but he might be

30:08

the best. And he's actually a

30:10

fantastic player and you think, well, Ollie

30:13

Lawrence rightly and Henry Slade grabbed the headlines,

30:15

Freeman grabbed the headlines, but actually it's not

30:17

just, you know, let's get someone solid in

30:19

there. It's actually, no, this guy's brilliant. He's

30:21

brilliant. He's just not a giant. And it's

30:24

a bit like Roy Hutchinson. You know, I watch Roy

30:26

Hutchinson every week. Scotland have some great

30:28

options. I know that, but I watch Roy

30:30

Hutchinson every week and Redpath, yeah. But

30:33

I watch Hutchinson every week and he's

30:35

just fantastic. He is mesmerising sometimes on

30:37

the ball, but he doesn't

30:39

seem quite to get the attention that, you

30:42

know, someone who's 6'4 and 17 stone might get

30:45

if they were doing the same thing. And that's

30:47

natural because you literally see more of them, I

30:49

guess, but it's a good

30:51

big and big, good littlens and all that stuff. But

30:53

I think Fraser Dingwall might have

30:55

more of a shout than people think. A lot of

30:57

people talk about Dan Kelly at Leicester Tigers, X, another

30:59

really good option. I just

31:02

think Dingwall offers more than, you

31:04

know, more than perhaps,

31:07

you know, I think he merits more coverage

31:09

than he gets is my point. But

31:12

yeah, I think the obvious two people at

31:14

the moment, the front runners in the moment

31:16

to put in the England midfield would be

31:18

Slade and Lawrence. But it's

31:20

which way round you put them. And would I

31:22

be right? You're a centre. So I'll ask you

31:24

this. Would I be right in thinking you

31:26

can you can worry too much about play

31:28

about who's playing inside and outside or do you kind

31:31

of have to nail your colours to the mast pre-match

31:36

and you kind of have to be where you are? It's not like

31:38

saying, well, a props a prop and whoever gets

31:40

their first goes far side like in when you're under 10s. Do

31:43

you kind of have to be a 12 or 13 most of the time? Yeah,

31:46

you don't want to be swapping around too much. It unsettles

31:48

you a little bit. I think

31:51

teams can play left and right and you

31:53

can change sort of back

31:55

line moves accordingly. But

31:57

you either play 12 or you play 13. And

32:00

I think Slade is

32:03

more of a creator than Lawrence, more of

32:05

a ball player. So for

32:07

me, he slots in OK at 12. And

32:10

I'd say Ollie Lawrence is

32:13

his strike runner. And some

32:15

strike runners are a little bit better further out. You

32:19

wouldn't put Esther Hazen as a strike runner at

32:21

13. You put him at 12 because just his

32:25

carry and ability, he's big. He's

32:27

tall. He can get over

32:30

tackles because he's tall and get his arms

32:32

through. Whilst I think Lawrence is more, he

32:34

bursts through tackles. And

32:36

I wouldn't play him at

32:38

12. I'd play him at 13 because he's playing

32:40

that well. Just on your point on 12s

32:43

as well, that's Cam Redpath. He's a

32:45

lot like sort of your Fraser

32:48

Dingwalls type of player.

32:51

Just makes good decisions. Watch him a couple of

32:53

times this season so far in

32:56

Basque European games. And

32:59

just low error count. Constantly

33:02

in the game. Constantly got his hands on the ball.

33:05

Not selfish. Because he's got a selfish

33:08

12 who just wants to carry on time. You don't often

33:10

get the ball out the back. He knows where the space

33:12

is. He's intelligent. And he's

33:15

just as important, I think, to Barre. Are you saying you

33:17

never got the ball when you play with Jamie Roberts? Why

33:19

are you saying that? You're so out of order. Someone

33:24

spray planted Crowbar in the front of his house. No,

33:26

they didn't. Yeah. But

33:30

no, you get it less, though, is my point.

33:32

If you've got a 12 that wants to carry,

33:34

his first thought is to carry.

33:39

His second thought is to pass whilst you get

33:41

the new Monday 12.

33:43

Their first thought is

33:45

to ship the ball wide. Mr.

33:48

Link, yeah. I just feel like

33:50

so many of the top teams, it's not all

33:52

about size, so many of the top teams have

33:55

somebody really powerful at 12 who can do, can

33:58

get through and around and over tackles. But

34:00

if you get the boys that can do it all, brilliant.

34:03

If you get the boys that are powerful and can link,

34:05

then it'll cost you 400 bags. But

34:11

Jonathan Donti is arguably

34:13

more powerful than Ollie Lawrence or close

34:15

to it. He's better

34:17

over the ball defensively, so he's handy to have

34:20

tight in, but he also gets the ball away

34:22

nicely and distributes well for a man of that

34:24

size and power. Deal Andy,

34:26

Esther Hazen, Jordy Barrett, a lot of

34:28

these top teams. Bundy Aki is

34:31

a massive physical presence at 12,

34:33

and he's so much more than a crashball merchant,

34:35

he runs good lines, but the

34:37

clever lines. But at the

34:39

same time, you just think these top teams.

34:41

When England play Ireland and France the last

34:44

two weekends of the Six Nations, I think

34:46

I'm right in saying that. And you're going

34:48

to play potentially Bundy Aki

34:50

and Jonathan Donti at 12. Henry

34:53

Sladey is hard as they come. I know

34:55

he's very pretty, but he's also very, very

34:57

hard, tough as nails. But

35:00

there is just a difference in power there. There

35:03

is a difference. So I wonder if you

35:05

stay ball for it, if you don't just stick the big

35:07

ones and the big ones at 12. Maybe.

35:10

You mentioned it there about just being

35:12

good at breakdown as well. I think

35:14

the good 12s and 13s, the

35:17

good centres, like the world

35:19

class centres and the world class front row are

35:22

all good over the ball. You can't rely just on

35:24

your back row now to slow ball down, to turn

35:26

ball over. You can't just rely on your seven and

35:28

your six. You have

35:31

to be big in the centre. You have to

35:33

be able to affect breakdowns in the centre, slow

35:35

ball down. You don't often

35:37

see too many doing

35:39

it. I watch a lot of rugby and you

35:42

need to be good in that area. You

35:45

look at the international front row now.

35:48

That's why they play international rugby, because obviously

35:50

they're good at the basics of scrumage him,

35:52

carry him. They're so good at

35:54

the breakdown. A

35:57

lot of club teams don't have that. That's why. these

36:01

centers, these front row aren't playing

36:03

international rugby a lot of them

36:05

because they haven't got the all-round game like a a

36:08

Bundy-Aki or Dante would have

36:10

where they do everything as

36:13

well as turn ball over. Hey

36:15

by the way watching watching Glasgow this

36:17

weekend, Tua Paluto and Hugh

36:20

Jones in the midfield were fantastic,

36:22

absolutely fantastic. Yeah and they haven't

36:24

started all the season either. Staffan

36:26

McDowell has played a

36:29

lot of centers so... He's played Jones. He's

36:31

played on the wing, yeah. But I think

36:33

that combination does work. The best.

36:36

Really good and again a bit with

36:38

Tua Paluto you think because

36:40

you look at him and he's stocky and

36:42

he's short and he's got massive legs, you

36:44

think he's a crash ball, he does have

36:46

a lot of power but jeez he makes

36:48

good decisions at the line, his split second,

36:50

his short kicking game is fantastic, his awareness,

36:52

spatial awareness is brilliant and he's got Hugh

36:55

Jones who is a

36:57

big powerful athlete who runs really clever

36:59

lines and they look like they're

37:02

at the point where Hugh Jones

37:04

runs at a space and he's just really confident

37:06

that he's able to get the ball there and

37:08

that's when opposition are in trouble isn't it?

37:10

Yeah he's one of the best mate, he's up there with Bundy-Aki in

37:13

terms of decision making, taking

37:15

the ball to a line, quality

37:18

player, really like watching him play. And

37:20

you add Finn Russell to that mix for Scotland, that's

37:23

hard work. It is hard

37:25

work as well as his first game.

37:27

The Welsh squad was announced flat, no

37:30

real surprises because there's so many injuries.

37:34

The new Alan Wynn Jones is captain? Yeah,

37:36

yep, Dav Jenkins. There

37:39

was probably a few

37:41

question marks over tight heads that

37:44

have come into the squad, a

37:47

couple of new caps as well,

37:49

like Alex Mann has been included

37:51

as has Mackenzie Martin who

37:53

looks really good at number eight.

37:56

He looks really good. Yeah, I haven't read it, he

37:58

liked him. But

38:00

big and young and big

38:02

and ready. He doesn't often get that.

38:04

It takes a bit of time, doesn't it, for some

38:07

players to bulk up. He's

38:09

come and he's at a weight where he

38:12

could do some damage and he's young. Cam

38:14

Winnet in as well, but as we mentioned earlier

38:16

on, he's hurt his jaw. It's

38:19

just who they play at 10, who they play at

38:21

15, I think is the

38:24

big question. I'm

38:26

a big Yoan Lloyd fan, but that is primarily

38:28

because I watched him so much playing for Bristol

38:30

and watched the damage he could do in different

38:32

positions. But he didn't watch him much at 10.

38:35

He played a bit, but it

38:38

was more... I mean, Callum Sheedy was very much

38:40

the first choice 10 when Yoan Lloyd was at

38:42

Bristol for those years. But actually further out, he

38:44

was really, really dangerous. But of course, he got

38:46

to run a game at 10, very different skill

38:48

sets. So you'd know more about having watched him

38:51

do that. He's done OK. I

38:53

think he's been the shown light for the

38:55

Scarlett's. They've had a terrible season so far.

38:57

He's been one of their best players. Sam

38:59

Costello has only played one game. Mm

39:02

hmm. Went off with a... I

39:04

think it's one, maybe two. Went off with an

39:06

HIA, didn't play last

39:08

weekend or this weekend. And

39:11

there's a bye week now, so he

39:13

would have played hardly any rugby prior

39:15

to Scotland. So

39:18

I just I'm not sure what. Well,

39:21

I was going to do. I thought

39:23

they may have added in Owen Williams

39:25

at 10 because he would

39:27

be sort of your typical 10 of

39:29

how Dattna likes his set up a team. Probably

39:31

not as an attacking

39:34

threat as Costello and Yoan Lloyd, but

39:37

more of the damn bigger mould. What

39:40

do you make of Archie

39:42

Griffin's problem? Well, yeah,

39:44

interesting one that because it the

39:47

Azerati, well, Kieran Azerati, Leon

39:50

Brown and Archie Griffin, isn't it? They're the

39:52

three tight heads of Wales. Azerati,

39:54

we know a little bit

39:56

about he and us when we were in

39:58

Cardiff, Cardiff Bath, if you. weeks ago. He's scrumaged

40:02

very, very well against Beno

40:04

Abana, who I believe they know from age

40:06

grade, he knows from age grade rugby and

40:08

all that. But he's

40:11

scrumaged really well that day. I watched

40:13

him relatively closely and he had lovely

40:15

shape. He kept going, didn't

40:17

lose his shape as he got tired. He looked

40:19

good to me. So he's

40:22

an interesting one. Leon Brown is a good

40:24

specimen. He's

40:27

kind of a big powerful man but hasn't

40:29

quite grown into his scrumaging

40:31

strength yet. He did okay against

40:33

Oxenchaik on Sunday. Yeah, he's

40:36

definitely improving.

40:38

What you tend to find

40:40

with young with props

40:42

is young props that are

40:44

in game time is that they are either naturally

40:47

very strong in the scrum and

40:50

ignore gym strength. That doesn't

40:52

matter. It's good fun but that doesn't make you any

40:54

good at scrumaging. So ignore

40:56

that but they're either very good in the scrum

40:59

or very good around the field. And every now

41:01

and again, you find one that can do both

41:03

from an early age. I would say

41:05

Leon Brown is learning the scrumaging bit as he

41:07

goes along, but he does have

41:10

the genetics and evidently judging

41:13

by his improvement, the mindset. So you'd

41:15

probably call it a growth mindset these

41:17

days, but he is improving all

41:19

the time. And that is a really, really,

41:21

that's sounds obvious, but lots of guys don't

41:23

really improve. They kind of are what they

41:25

are. And he is

41:27

getting better and better as time goes

41:29

on. So I like the fact he's included. You might

41:31

see him struggle once or twice in the six nations,

41:34

but I think that's all right. Because

41:37

you know, the example I often use in

41:39

front row terms is, you know, Kean Healy wasn't

41:43

an immense scrumage of the first couple of years of

41:45

his career, but he got better and better. He was

41:47

an amazing player and he became a world class loose

41:50

head for years and years and years and you'd still

41:52

put them against anybody. So, you know,

41:55

he learned quick, but became elite.

41:57

So there's no reason Brown can't do the same. Griffin

42:00

is, you know, at this level

42:02

is very much an unknown. He's a young fella. He's

42:06

a big unit. I live

42:08

in Bath, obviously, and he plays for Bath. I see

42:11

him knocking around the place, and there's a lot of

42:13

him for a young bloke. The

42:16

players talk very highly of him. I've actually seen

42:18

him in the gym. They sometimes use a sort

42:20

of gym in town that I'd go into, and

42:23

I obviously sit in the background as the old man that

42:25

they don't really want to talk to, and

42:27

you sort of watch him work. I don't really

42:29

care about who's lifting what. It doesn't mean anything,

42:31

but I saw him work his arse

42:33

off on a Wednesday afternoon a few times, and you think,

42:35

well, it's good that he's in-ear grafting.

42:39

So, again, he's

42:41

got the body for it. I

42:44

think I'd be surprised if he got much game time,

42:46

not because he's not good enough, but because they don't

42:48

know if he's good enough yet. He hasn't played that

42:50

many games to Bath, so good

42:52

on him. And,

42:54

yeah, I hope he goes well, but really anyone

42:57

who claims to know him inside out, they

43:00

either see him more than I do, or

43:03

they're making it up because he hasn't played that

43:05

much yet. I'm going to give you my team

43:07

quickly, and then we'll move on to England, all

43:09

right? So, I'm going to go after Thomas, Ryan

43:13

Elias, Kieran Azarati,

43:16

front row, second rows, David

43:19

Jenkins, and Will

43:21

Rowlands. My

43:23

back row, I'm going...

43:27

Tommy Rafale at seven, James

43:30

Botham six, Aaron Wainwright

43:32

at eight. My

43:36

back then... So, you back row again?

43:39

I was looking at the court then, but you back

43:41

row. Tommy Rafale at seven. Yeah. I

43:45

shouldn't. James Botham six. OK.

43:49

And Aaron Wainwright at eight. OK.

43:54

My back, I'm going Thomas Williams, Sam

43:58

Costello, nine and ten. It

44:00

is a bit of a risk, but yeah,

44:02

I've got many options. Centres, Nick

44:04

Tompkins and George North. I

44:07

hope George North is okay. When I'm

44:09

injured, they'll be sweating over him. I'm

44:11

not sure of his fitness, but I

44:14

mean, those two performed pretty well in the

44:16

World Cup. Nick Tompkins was, again,

44:18

the fine for Wales, even though he's played many

44:20

times before. I

44:23

think it was his best. Runner games is

44:25

his best tournament I've seen him play. On

44:28

the wings, then I'm going Josh

44:30

Adams and Mason Grady. And

44:33

at 15, I'm going Joanne Lloyd. Okay.

44:37

Okay. Yeah. There

44:39

we are. There we have it. England. Yeah, I'm right with that,

44:41

mate. England squad. Yeah.

44:46

Happy. Not happy. Who's

44:49

happy? Yeah, I mean, interesting.

44:55

It is. I mean, I'm going to make sure.

45:00

Just get up on the screen while you're feeling now. That's

45:02

what I'm doing. Get up on the screen. In

45:06

terms of the uncapped guys, China

45:10

Cunningham South is very, very

45:12

exciting. He's

45:15

unusual in that. Well,

45:17

he's handy because he's tall, so you can stick him where you

45:20

want. And he's a good line out option, which always ticks a

45:22

box at this level. So I look at your Welsh back row,

45:24

and I think he's had quite enough height in it. Maybe it'd

45:26

be all right. Yeah, but it's always handy to have a Courtney

45:28

laws at six. Charlie

45:31

Cunningham South is just, he

45:33

develops a lot of power, but he's

45:36

just really, really aggressive. And he hits

45:38

really hard and carries really hard. And

45:40

it's, you know, everyone, everyone out there

45:42

at pro level is trying their best,

45:45

but you can, some people just develop

45:47

more velocity and momentum

45:49

into collisions. And he seems to be have

45:52

real venom in his carry and his hits.

45:55

And I'm sure technically there are bits to round

45:57

off. There are bits to improve, but as a

45:59

result, Raw specimen, he's the sort of

46:01

guy you could put on the

46:03

field against Italy and he will break tackles and

46:06

he will smack people. And there's

46:08

a lot to be said for that. Young

46:10

bloke hasn't played many games, but

46:13

steamed his way into the first team at Quinn's and

46:15

played brilliantly when he's in it. So

46:18

I'm really excited about him. Ethan Roots

46:20

is an interesting one, another manro, kind

46:22

of brought in, you know, I was supposed to be to

46:25

replace Dave Ewers, he went to Ulster. He's

46:27

been not even quietly fantastic. He's

46:29

just been really, really excellent. So they kind

46:31

of, for a

46:33

time, they've always had somebody of very,

46:36

very high quality running around doing a lot of

46:38

work. So when Thomas Waldron was there scoring loads

46:40

of tries and Salvi was nicking ball, you

46:43

know, you had Don Armond there doing a huge

46:45

amount of high quality work, almost in that Jerome

46:47

Cano role. So he don't realise how good he

46:49

is till he's injured, till he's

46:51

not there for a week. Then they had Dave

46:54

Ewers, now they've got Ethan Roots. He's

46:56

been fantastic. Oscar

46:59

Beard, you've seen play, he's big, he's

47:01

quick, he's got really good feet, he's

47:04

confident. So will he get any game time? You'd

47:06

say probably not, but geez. Another

47:10

outside back from Quinn's that you would

47:12

say could do a job for England,

47:14

having not played a huge amount of pro games.

47:19

And Manny Feuvozo is kind

47:21

of an interesting one because he qualified for Wales

47:24

as well. So

47:27

he plays for Cardiff schools indeed, under 15s.

47:30

But he's an interesting one to

47:32

talk to you about because you obviously played

47:34

internationals on the wing when you skinned Joe

47:37

Roccofoco. And

47:40

with Manny Feuvozo, what

47:42

I've seen is the ball in hand

47:44

stuff is just obvious. So he

47:47

breaks tackles that other people don't break. He

47:51

is very, very, he's got a, he's

47:53

very light on his feet for someone who's

47:55

very highly muscled and powerful. So he accelerates

47:57

very quickly, his foot works good. aggressive

48:02

and that's great and I guess

48:04

the question comes around aerial

48:07

bombardment defensive positioning on the wing

48:09

would it if if he's that much of a if

48:13

he's so good at what he does they're going to kind

48:15

of in inverted commas ignore slash try

48:17

and improve as they go the bits that

48:19

he's not as good at then do

48:21

they then put Slade at 13 to

48:23

make it easier for Feuwoboso because they

48:25

play together at Chiefs there's an

48:27

interesting one but it might be

48:30

about let's pick him because of what he

48:32

can do rather than leave him out because of you know

48:34

what he needs to brush up on where do you stand

48:36

on that I'm not sure

48:38

he's gonna get selected straight away he might

48:40

do so that England tie him up and

48:43

he can't then play

48:45

for anyone out another country oh I

48:48

wonder what the communication has been like

48:50

with him in the Welsh camp because

48:52

I know England have been in open

48:55

talks about playing for England

48:57

I think it's more of a risk to

48:59

play for England to play international rugby because you're up against

49:01

so many more teams and so many more players you know

49:04

if you if you wanted to go down the Welsh route

49:06

you know it's just you know you've got four teams ten

49:08

teams you know so there's less competition not

49:13

sure he's gonna start he's obviously

49:15

very good player and

49:18

he suits the way X to

49:20

play but that might not suit the way England want

49:22

to play and you can't play the same way you

49:24

play at a club as you

49:26

would play international rugby I

49:28

think Tommy Freeman has

49:30

to start on one wing yeah

49:33

I just think he's been outstanding this season

49:36

and I also

49:38

am a big fan of Elliott Daley

49:41

because you need I think yeah I just think you need

49:43

clever people in your team you can't just be not

49:46

robots but you can't just be two

49:49

or three dimensional players you have to be

49:51

four or five yeah you need you need

49:53

a genius in there somewhere and for me

49:56

Elliott Daley falls into that category of being

49:59

out with it use different strengths to

50:02

make breaks to read the game. He's very

50:05

intelligent player. So I

50:07

just don't know if he's going to start straight

50:10

away, but he's certainly exciting and a little

50:13

bit gutted that he hasn't chosen Wales to see

50:15

why he's wanted to go to England.

50:19

But it does come at a little bit of a risk if you want to

50:21

play international rugby for

50:23

the next 10 years. Yeah, it

50:25

does. It's a bold choice. Finn Smith,

50:27

Youngfly half has been really, really good.

50:29

He was fantastic in the second half

50:31

of the weekend against Munster. Absolutely fantastic.

50:35

Tom Robach, Sales Sharks wing,

50:38

big quick scores tries. So he's the sort of guy

50:41

that just quietly might end up getting some game time.

50:43

I agree with you on the two wings. They're the

50:45

two wingers I would start as well. Freeman

50:47

and Elliot Daly. I think you've just

50:49

got to find room for Elliot Daly somewhere. I

50:52

do agree with that, but Robach might

50:54

not be that far off. Fraser Dingwall

50:56

we've mentioned already. And it's

50:59

an interesting one in my old position at

51:01

Lusaid. They're basically all injured.

51:04

Macavuna Polar's retired, so

51:07

he's no longer available. Joe

51:10

Marla did hurt himself a few weeks ago at

51:12

Twickenham, hurt his arm. And

51:14

he did play the first half against

51:16

Ulster this weekend. He did start the

51:18

game. So I don't know

51:20

what the injury is, so I'm not pretending I don't

51:22

have inside knowledge when I do. But I've

51:26

done my bicep before. I've snapped my bicep.

51:28

And that might absolutely not be what he's

51:30

done. And I hope it's not. But sometimes

51:33

you snap and you rupture them and

51:35

you need surgery. That's it. Sometimes

51:38

you can actually manage it and play on and

51:40

deal with it. Maybe that's what's happening. I don't

51:42

know. But basically with these things,

51:44

you never quite know if it's going to

51:46

stand up until you play. Do what you

51:48

want in training. You never know until

51:50

you're in the thick of it whether your injury is going

51:52

to fail or not. I don't know

51:55

if he was only ever going to play 40 at the weekend.

51:57

Maybe he was. So

51:59

hopefully he's all right. but

52:03

he's injured, Elis

52:06

Genge is in the squad, he's not

52:08

injured, he's in the squad so he might be injured, he

52:10

might not. Elis

52:12

Genge is currently injured, didn't play for Bristol

52:14

at the weekend with a hamstring injury, he

52:17

would be your first choice, Marla

52:19

would be close to first choice but

52:21

probably behind for the Italy game, behind

52:23

Elis Genge. And

52:27

so you've got Benno Abano is in

52:29

there now, he's playing really really well

52:31

for Bath and I think from looking

52:33

across the squad, I mean the three

52:35

loose heads are Abano, Marla and Genge

52:38

and at the moment it might come about that

52:40

Abano is the only fit one out of all

52:43

of them. So Genge

52:45

hopefully is back fit but if neither

52:47

Genge nor Marla makes it you'll probably

52:50

see Finn Baxter who's the understudy

52:52

to Marla at Queen's come into the squad I would have

52:54

thought. So yeah

52:56

I mean it's all interesting

52:59

depending on perspective. Nice fixtures, nice

53:01

fixtures as well, Italy away first

53:03

game which you'd assume England will

53:06

win, then you have Wales at home

53:08

and I think it's good to

53:11

play a team like Italy and

53:14

I'm not trying to disrespect them but they do

53:16

finish down the bottom and they're not the strongest

53:19

of the teams in the six

53:21

nations, they are getting better but in

53:23

terms of momentum I think that's

53:25

a good start for England and you

53:27

could look at it and it could be

53:29

two from two, it depends on and I'm saying that because

53:32

I know Wales is squad as well, we're

53:35

down to the bare minimum, you've gone through a

53:37

cycle so I think with Wales we might see

53:39

a little bit of pain before we see any

53:41

reward because we've gone through a cycle

53:43

where we've lost a lot of players, we've got

53:45

a big group of youngsters coming through and

53:48

as we know it doesn't often

53:50

happen straight away, it takes a bit of time

53:52

to get used to international rugby,

53:54

to get that experience, to

53:56

get up to speed of how physical it is,

53:59

the pace of it. the time you've got on

54:01

the ball, everything. So I only

54:03

say that with Wales in that, we

54:06

might take a couple of years, just it

54:08

might be some poor results, but I

54:11

think we can see that where Welsh Robbie is at

54:13

the moment and the age of

54:15

the squad, I mean, the inexperienced

54:17

players that are coming in now. So

54:19

we've gone through a cycle. But

54:22

I think it's good fixtures for England. I mean,

54:24

the best fixture is gonna be France, Ireland first

54:26

game. I'm doing

54:28

that game actually. Ah, amazing, amazing. Yeah,

54:30

that'd be good. Yeah, that'd be good. I'm

54:32

looking forward to that. Got

54:35

my England team. Yeah, before

54:38

we go, I'm making this up. I haven't thought

54:40

about it yet. I'd go, I mean,

54:44

England don't lose by picking a Bar-No. He's been in

54:46

great form. So I thought he was really good against

54:48

Toulouse at the weekend. So a Bar-No, Jamie George, new

54:50

skipper, congrats to him. Tight-haired

54:52

to an interesting one because Dan

54:55

Cole has actually been starting Joe Hayes

54:57

at Leicester Tigers, but I would actually

54:59

start Will Stewart, although he has been

55:01

missing out to Thomas DeToy a little

55:03

bit lately in selection. But Will

55:05

Stewart, I think, has stepped it up a bit

55:07

since he came back from the World Cup. He

55:10

was good anyway, but he looks more aggressive at set-pitch. So

55:12

that's my front row. I'm not gonna analyze every position like

55:14

this. It's too boring. Oli Chesom

55:16

and Maro Itoji would be my

55:18

second row. And I'm gonna

55:20

now make up a back row. I

55:23

would have Ben Curry

55:25

at seven. Purely

55:28

because Sam

55:31

Underhill hasn't been playing. I

55:34

would have Ben

55:37

Earl at number eight because

55:39

he's been mega, and I would have Tom Pearson at

55:41

number six with

55:45

a/Chandler Cunningham South. Because

55:47

Tom Pearson's only got one cap. Cunningham South's got none,

55:50

but I'd start one of those two. I've said it,

55:52

I'd start. It's

55:54

always tempting to start the fly-half. Stuart Barnes wrote

55:56

an interesting article at the weekend about

55:59

starting fly-offs. and scrum halves that play together

56:01

so there's an argument to start care with Smith.

56:03

I still would start Alex Mitchell with Marcus

56:06

Smith. I like

56:08

that idea. I just think leaving Mitchell

56:10

out is tough at the moment

56:12

because he played so well for England, the World

56:14

Cup, although Danny Care's just electric at

56:16

the moment. He was electric again at the weekend and

56:19

Maestro is still doing it. I hope

56:21

you get some high caps. I really do. He

56:23

will, he will, he will. He's too good not

56:25

to and he just never goes away. He'll be

56:27

playing for Queens again next season. He doesn't, you're

56:29

right. He never goes away even like with disappointment,

56:31

even being out for squads just comes right back

56:33

in. A bit like Reece Carrey just

56:36

doesn't go away but not selected even though

56:38

he's playing well. I

56:40

think he'll get 200 caps and

56:43

midfield I go, I go Lawrence 12, Slade

56:46

13, Freeman one wing, Daly the

56:48

other and

56:52

at full back the

56:54

obvious choice is Freddie Stewart.

56:56

Okay. And

56:58

realistically that is who I would pick if I pick

57:00

in the team but George Furbank, I would love to

57:03

see you have a go. George

57:06

Furbank I love at full back. I think

57:08

he's a fantastic player and

57:10

he would, against Italy again

57:12

you should win and Steve

57:14

Borthwick's talked about England needing a different mindset

57:16

for this tournament. I wonder if they might,

57:19

they might keep ball in hand a little bit more,

57:21

kick a bit, a little bit less in simple terms

57:24

and have more of a crack and I think to

57:26

that end George Furbank is the form

57:29

full back in the prem at the moment. You

57:31

could go, well yeah, but you could

57:33

go Elliot Daly at 15 and then

57:35

you could have Freeman and maybe Roebuck

57:38

or, or another

57:40

winger. I reckon if, when,

57:42

when Tom Roebuck gets picked I reckon he will

57:44

be really hard to drop if

57:47

he stays fit because he does do everything really

57:49

well and he has the added advantage

57:51

and it is an advantage of being really big

57:53

or big. He's big so aerially

57:55

he's great, you know you'd rather cross kick

57:57

to him than Fae Woboso.

58:00

And that's not about talent. That's just about who's taller.

58:02

He's got longer legs and back. It's just handy to be

58:05

good and big So I

58:08

think he might well end up getting good for you

58:10

cats, but I would start with daily in Freeman. There

58:12

you go There we are. Got it That's

58:16

a rugby podcast that is a rugby podcast

58:18

box ticked. Where are you this weekend? There's

58:20

no games What you do and you go

58:22

to a car auction you? Saris

58:25

has premiership this weekend last prayer. Is that last prayer?

58:27

Yeah, I'm at Saris on Saturday night Yeah, I

58:29

don't think there was there's no you are some games

58:31

what I like going to Saris But I was

58:33

there last Saturday night, so I kind of wanted to go to

58:37

Bristol Bath, but we can't we we've got to go and

58:39

film it at Saris because a later kickoff So it's the

58:41

right place to be but um Yeah,

58:44

it you got to film your highlights at the later

58:46

kickoff really obviously But Bristol

58:48

Bath, I think Bristol Bath might be

58:50

depending on who bath pick that could be a tough

58:52

day for Bristol I like

58:55

it to be close, but in terms of form the last few weeks. I don't

58:57

know if it will be No,

58:59

no, where were you what games you covered this

59:01

weekend before you go? Where were you? Saris Leon?

59:04

Saris, let's go shape left

59:07

it late. No shape in the first half really

59:09

didn't kick into gear second half

59:11

way more direct Really

59:14

far more impressive in the second half and

59:16

ended up winning reasonably comfortably, but where

59:19

were you I was that Ras

59:22

in Cardiff, it's good first time. Yeah,

59:25

just the power came through second

59:27

half. Yeah, yeah, please say was Immense,

59:30

wasn't he great? He is not a

59:32

myth turns out not a myth at

59:34

all So we said 15 Yep

59:39

Excellent. Do you think our 15s out there fella? They are

59:42

for the correct and she bear were good 910 but

59:45

the power of the pack Look, alright

59:47

look a wreck is amazing. No, I look erect the

59:49

nine, but he won't start for France They'll start

59:51

Luke who and a jelly bear both play for Bordeaux

59:53

together. Why don't they you see why? Yeah,

59:56

yeah, the Garrett was good against bath. Then

59:59

I did Dragons, Sharks in the

1:00:01

challenge cut with Francois Lo on

1:00:03

Sunday. Conditions were horrific but... Always

1:00:06

lit skin at Denis Flo, always

1:00:08

looks good. He does, he gutted.

1:00:10

Yeah, I know, you say every time he

1:00:12

turns up, he outplays you. Sharks have

1:00:14

been really disappointed in this season though. They've had

1:00:16

some real bad start. They've

1:00:19

never really had one win in the URC

1:00:21

which was the Dragons at home but they

1:00:23

looked a lot better. All their stars were

1:00:25

back, they brought a big strong

1:00:27

team to Rodney Parade which was good.

1:00:29

So they had World Cup winners, LeCannu

1:00:31

Am, Mepimpe, Oxen Che.

1:00:34

And it just showed in the second

1:00:36

half. They just had much quality. But

1:00:40

as I said after the game, what are you going to do? The

1:00:42

Dragons are the Dragons, there's not a

1:00:44

massive budget. You're up against a team like the

1:00:46

Sharks who've got a decent budget. Three

1:00:48

World Cup winners, it's tough. But

1:00:52

they did OK. Do

1:00:54

you know all the chat about Oxen Che? He's like, I like

1:00:56

a bit of cake, he likes cake. I'm sure he does like cake.

1:00:59

But Google him. With his top

1:01:01

off, he doesn't look like he eats cake. He's

1:01:04

got some glutes on him. These guys are

1:01:06

immense, man. These guys are immense these days. Yeah,

1:01:10

anyway. That's enough. Right, well done,

1:01:12

Tom. That's a rugby podcast complete. Well

1:01:14

done, Dave. We're going to do one next week. I mean,

1:01:16

we're not down to do any Six Nations pods. Yeah,

1:01:20

we'll do it. Should we do it closer to the game day so we

1:01:22

can talk about the teams? Good idea, Tommy.

1:01:25

Yeah. Good luck, everyone. Bye.

1:01:57

Bye. that

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1:02:42

Listen to the Good Life Project podcast

1:02:44

wherever you get your podcasts. Acast

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helps creators launch, grow

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and monetize their podcasts

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everywhere. acast.com