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0:51

Hello, welcome to this

0:53

second episode of the August

0:55

summer series brought to you by Flats

0:57

and Shanks.

0:59

I am the Shanks, here's the Flats,

1:02

flat mandu. Yeah, flat

1:04

mandu. Right, we've obviously got a big talking

1:06

point this week. What?

1:09

The illegal

1:11

headbutt from Tame Basham into

1:14

Owen Farrell's shoulder.

1:18

Can't get into it yet, we've got to tease the listeners,

1:20

they've got to listen a little bit haven't they? We have

1:23

got some explosive views

1:25

upcoming. Oh my god. Okay, explosive.

1:27

Is this only good? No. But first

1:30

of all, Tom, Tommy, Tom,

1:32

Tom, Tom, Thompson. People,

1:36

I'm sure people download our pod for the old

1:38

rugby view and that will come. But

1:41

how you doing fella? Are you okay? Well,

1:44

David, my wife and two

1:46

girls went to London on Monday morning and they

1:48

didn't come back until half past ten

1:51

last night, which was just. Oh my god. Oh

1:53

my god. My

1:54

four year old went to my mother's. Oh

1:57

my god. I

2:00

cooked a rolled sirloin

2:03

for myself and had two roast dinners, Monday

2:06

and Tuesday. You

2:10

fat bastard. I know. Honestly,

2:12

I reckon it's the best one I've done from Field &

2:15

Flower. I

2:16

don't know why. Sometimes there's a bit of

2:18

luck, isn't it? You get a good cut

2:21

or you've just cooked it to perfection. And

2:24

baby Jesus, it was

2:27

the most tender succulent

2:30

with garlic crust on the outside. Oh,

2:33

God. I mean, I didn't put loads

2:35

of effort into the rest of the meal. I tried

2:37

roast potatoes in the

2:40

air fryer. And

2:42

to be honest, mate, they'd just come up

2:46

like a frozen roast potato.

2:49

Oh, so your air fryer's not the answer

2:51

to everything then? That's what they look like. Oh, no, mate,

2:53

I'm not Pete Lecky. Oh,

2:55

is that what he's like? Is that what Paul's just like? He's part of the cult,

2:57

is he? He loves treble cooked, Aunt Bessie's

3:00

frozen roast potatoes. Gourmet.

3:03

Gourmet, sorry. Oh, the classless

3:05

mutant. But my

3:08

point is I part boiled them and then put them in, but

3:10

they just come out like

3:12

they're frozen. So I'm not going to do it again.

3:15

Perception. I

3:17

recently, this is like weeks ago, found

3:19

out that I've always said part boiled as

3:22

in P-A-R-T, as you partly

3:24

boil them, which I think you might have

3:26

just done. I've always said part boiled and

3:28

then Freya pulled me up on it and said it's parboiled.

3:31

What?

3:32

With no tea. That can't be right.

3:35

She's having you on, mate. You've

3:37

got baby brain. That's your problem now. So

3:41

you've had a lovely time, fella. Oh,

3:43

man. I bet you didn't wash the whole time. No, I

3:45

did. I had a bath, a deep bath

3:48

by Alan Partridge because I've

3:50

got a bit of a sore shoulder.

3:54

I don't know why. Well, it's

3:56

a sore neck. Probably sleeping awkwardly.

4:00

you use an

4:02

overpriced pillow?

4:03

Do now boy,

4:04

do now. They make all the difference mate.

4:08

The more you pay the less your neck hurts that's

4:10

what I found out. Having said

4:12

that

4:13

when I was in the England squad

4:15

in about 2003, yes 2003. The

4:19

World Cup winner?

4:21

No not quite, no

4:23

it was actually 2004 it was after the World Cup and they

4:25

realised they needed to upgrade because they only won

4:27

it. We had

4:29

a deal with temper and I got this mattress which is

4:31

long gone but I still have

4:34

my 20 year old temper

4:36

pillow that I use every night on

4:38

my neck and

4:40

I'm down in Devon at the moment which I'll explain but I've

4:42

got a one called a Levitex

4:44

as well which really helps my neck but without them

4:47

I am cream screwed. Jeez

4:50

you want to keep that

4:51

away from forensics mate. Well

4:53

I take it to a dry cleaner. Does

4:55

it matter? Yeah they can't get that

4:58

out. A lot of unsolved crimes within

5:00

that pillow. Yeah I said

5:02

can I dry clean this but I don't want it put on any

5:04

sort of database is that okay? I

5:07

just I paid 20 quid to an old for an old granny

5:10

to take it in.

5:11

No

5:13

I've got a 20 year old pillow and

5:15

I thought to myself we've had this

5:17

chat and we're gonna get back to your time alone in a sec but

5:19

we might have had it but I've thought

5:22

to myself I've got mattresses a mattress

5:25

that I don't love at home and it's

5:27

fine for Freya because she weighs about eight stone

5:29

but it's not fine for me don't

5:31

love it back hurts every morning and

5:34

I was like the only mattress I've ever had

5:36

that I've loved start to finish I

5:38

lost in my divorce mat Tom

5:41

a temper mattress.

5:44

The loss that the divorce. Is it still outside the front of her

5:46

house?

5:47

With bastard sprayed on it. Look

5:52

what you did to me. Yeah I'm

5:54

gonna I'm getting one sod this and then I realized

5:58

for the best one for the right size it's three and I. grand

6:00

and I thought I would rather have a bad back than

6:03

pay that. You know, if I could

6:06

I'd pay 500 grand for a car.

6:09

I'd pay a million pounds for a car if I had the money but

6:11

I will not pay three grand for a mattress that I spend

6:13

eight hours on every day of my life. Do you remember in

6:15

the early 2000s everyone thought the futon

6:18

was the way forward. Yeah,

6:20

yeah

6:23

ridiculous. I bet Bubba's on that as well. You

6:26

know he's probably thin back then.

6:28

Just come out the army. I had a

6:30

futon and it wasn't

6:34

the answer and I bloke the staver on my house

6:36

once, wet it. I can't

6:38

shame him on here because he was going

6:41

through it. Wasn't Jed was it? No,

6:43

wasn't Jed. It was a friend

6:46

of a friend really but

6:48

he had

6:49

previous and

6:51

I think those times he got now so he

6:53

doesn't wet the futon or the bed anymore or sofas.

6:55

Is he a rugby

6:57

player? We'll leave it at that now.

6:59

He wishes. He bloody

7:02

wishes. Don't they all? Don't

7:05

they all? Reesh Blumberg. Not

7:08

on this time. You wish you were a rugby player until

7:10

you hear what Steven Gerrard's getting

7:12

paid in Saudi Arabia then you wish you were something else.

7:17

Chasing the Yankee cover. Just give me a week mate.

7:20

Just give me a week. What about NFL? Give

7:22

me a week fella. I've been watching quarterback on

7:25

Netflix. It's really good.

7:27

Is it? Yeah. I think

7:29

it's just three quarterbacks

7:31

they follow. All different. All

7:33

the different stages their career. Patrick

7:35

Mahone mate.

7:37

Oh my days.

7:39

He's something special.

7:42

Is he? Yeah. He's fair. I think he's like mid

7:45

20s but just incredible.

7:48

He's a superstar and I've never really got into NFL

7:51

but I'm watching this because it's really got access

7:53

into their sort of family lives as well as game

7:56

day. and

8:00

insight, I just really enjoyed

8:02

it. Yeah, okay.

8:05

I've been recommended that by someone else as well. Maybe I'll

8:07

have a go. It's one of those when you're sitting on the bike,

8:10

in the gym,

8:11

not that you do that. The toilet,

8:14

when you sit on the toilet, and you know it's

8:16

gonna be a long one, you've got 45 minutes,

8:19

just put it on. Pins

8:22

and needles in your feet. Yeah, yep.

8:28

We have had an unusual situation in our house the

8:31

last few days, whereby we

8:33

have started watching something that sounded

8:36

really good, because I went on, I just

8:38

thought, let's just have a look on the old home

8:40

screen of Sky Plus, or whatever it is, and it

8:42

recommended this thing with Martin Freeman and it called

8:45

a confession.

8:46

And started watching

8:49

it, I thought this is quite good. Watched one episode, and

8:51

obviously my wife's tired.

8:54

I had a baby, so she goes to bed after one episode. Started

8:57

a bit earlier the next night, get another episode

8:59

in, and I was like, let's just watch a bit of the third

9:01

one before you go to bed. All right,

9:04

all right, so we get going, and about half an hour

9:06

in,

9:07

and this

9:09

is not that unusual for me, but

9:11

for her, I'm amazed, because she's like an elephant.

9:13

Okay, she's got very, she forgets nothing, and she's

9:15

got very large toenails.

9:18

I said, I think I've seen this

9:20

before.

9:22

And she was like, no way, oh my God,

9:24

have we really? And

9:26

about 10 minutes later, she's like, oh my God, I

9:28

know what's gonna happen next. And we realize we're watching

9:31

a four-year-old series

9:33

that we've already watched, but we are three

9:36

whole episodes in before we both

9:39

realize that we've seen it all before. Could

9:41

have been a lot worse, mate. You could have watched it with your ex-wife,

9:43

and then you would have had some sort of explain to them.

9:46

It would have been awkward. Exactly, yeah,

9:48

exactly. Especially as I've done it, especially

9:51

the year it was made. Remember

9:53

when you went to Thailand? No, no, I've never been to Thailand

9:55

with you.

9:56

Yeah, CX. lot

10:00

of that. Remember Jackie, halfway through, we've

10:02

got half,

10:04

we got halfway through. And we've had to stop because

10:06

we've watched it. And so we

10:09

started watching something last night

10:13

called

10:15

so I've forgotten I Oh God, I hate

10:17

him people do this ITV. It's

10:19

about it's a horrible about a guy, a familiar

10:22

side case where he killed his family and himself.

10:24

And we didn't quite know what we were putting on. And I was like

10:26

gritty, I quite like a bit of dark TV.

10:30

Like heavy, heavy TV, watch the virtues.

10:32

I'm a Stephen Graham.

10:34

Oh my God, I've seen that.

10:36

It's immense television that well, I'm two episodes

10:39

in and it's not very uplifting. So

10:42

no, it's the opposite of uplifting.

10:44

All right, I'm not gonna watch it. Now

10:46

I would say that is one of the best television

10:48

programs I've watched that being my top

10:52

five television shows

10:55

up series I've ever watched you turn into me. I

10:59

haven't laminated the top five. Not like you. Yeah,

11:01

I know. You've rubbed off on me, so to speak. I

11:05

hope you haven't rubbed off on them. 20 years ago, maybe

11:08

recently. Yeah, if you're a little while back.

11:10

Those are the days. But

11:13

the virtues is incredible, mate. Absolutely incredible.

11:15

Little boy blue as well with him just or they're awful.

11:18

But yeah, brilliant. They're

11:20

they kind of you feel like they're important. You

11:22

know, I started watching Special Ops

11:24

Lioness. See

11:27

that? That

11:29

is it's a

11:33

American military

11:36

against Iraq. So blown up

11:39

a note. Sorry, that's another

11:42

thing I watched. We

11:45

need to get out. I started watching

11:47

something with Gerard Butler in the last one.

11:50

Kaha, Kaha, Kaha, Kaha, Kaha,

11:52

Kaha, Kaha. I watched a bit of that

11:55

last time. But anyway, Special Ops Lioness is about a Special

11:58

Ops military team they're trying to get.

11:59

spy into a

12:02

terrorist organization. It's quite good. Is

12:05

it good? Yeah it's quite good. I'm enjoying it.

12:07

Easy to watch. I think with Gerard Butler is that he's just Rory

12:10

Lawson on steroids mate. Have you seen,

12:13

yeah he's Rory Lawson with a little bit of an Andy

12:15

Powell speech impediment.

12:17

Have you seen his, yeah have you seen his

12:22

We Are Scotland video, it's quite good.

12:24

Scotland World Cup. I haven't watched it

12:26

and I,

12:30

do you know what I flick past it this morning so you, so

12:32

I was up early with the toddler

12:35

and I'll explain all that in a sec, the

12:37

logistics at the moment but

12:40

I flick past it because

12:43

I wasn't ready for it but also I was

12:45

looking for something for my daughter but then

12:48

I thought is it,

12:50

is this Scotland trying to do what

12:55

it was? Martin Sheen isn't it?

12:57

Yeah. Did for Wales

13:00

and it's like, or was it the Lions

13:02

he did it for? I can't remember. It was for Wales football.

13:05

I think it was. Wales football that's right and I was

13:07

just like, oh man you can't match that so are

13:09

they trying to do one of those? Well I don't

13:11

know. Then who's England's one going to be? They're going to get Boris

13:14

to do it.

13:15

It's quite good even

13:17

though they will be going home after the group of stages

13:20

it's still quite good for the short term. I

13:25

think they should get Rishi Sunak to do one for

13:27

the England rugby team. Go and get them.

13:29

Go and try and win but ultimately be

13:31

fair. What

13:34

we must be is fair. My

13:36

advice to you is to marry well. Marry

13:39

into richness. Marry into wealth.

13:43

So

13:45

yeah, it's quite

13:48

good. I like anything like that. Okay

13:50

that's good. We've started

13:53

on this dark road now with this episode one of

13:55

this thing and it is bloody hell man. I

13:58

don't know why we do it.

13:59

I'm like, Freya used to be an absolute wimp

14:02

with this stuff. And last night I was there,

14:04

hands over my eyes,

14:06

like I can't bear it looking at my

14:09

phone, thinking this is too

14:11

much. And I said to her, why do we do it? And she's

14:13

like, yeah, I don't know.

14:14

She watched Peppa Pig or something before we go to bed like

14:16

this is. Let's go and cheer ourselves up. Last time we were down

14:19

in Devon, before we had the baby,

14:21

I was watching the Tour de France documentary,

14:23

whatever I always forget what these things are called, but

14:26

unchained or something. But I love that. Absolutely

14:28

love that. And I was like, that's a great thing to watch because blokes

14:31

often stay up later than women. I'm sure I'm generalizing

14:34

here, but most blokes I know stay up later

14:37

than their wives do.

14:39

You do you

14:41

stay up and watch telly after everyone's gone to bed for half an hour

14:43

or not? No. We

14:45

just go to bed at the same time. Yeah,

14:48

and I sometimes slip into that

14:50

rhythm of going to bed later and then I snap myself out

14:52

of it and think it's actually quite important to not

14:54

go to bed an hour apart every night. Do

14:57

you when we finish these dark series, do you

14:59

say to your missus, come on, let's let's go

15:01

put the Ted Bundy files on. Cheer us up.

15:04

Come on. Yeah. Let's go watch again.

15:07

When you got when

15:10

you've got 14 kids,

15:12

you knocking around the place, that

15:15

little bit of time

15:17

with a drink or without a drink. But

15:19

that little bit of time on your own

15:21

in the evening is just sacrosanct.

15:24

It's like it's not as good as

15:26

everyone going away and leaving you on your own at home like

15:28

you've had. It's not as good as that, but

15:29

it is it's everything

15:32

at the time.

15:33

So I don't want to let it go. And

15:35

then I stay up late and then I'm

15:37

shaft of the next morning. So what we've done is, Tommy,

15:39

we've, as you know, we were in Devon,

15:42

we

15:45

realized that my wife was having a baby.

15:48

So we got everyone back, left all

15:50

our stuff in Devon

15:51

or most of it, got back, had a what a

15:53

week and a week and a half

15:55

at home in Bath. But

15:58

then thought, well, truth be told. like

16:00

if it was just

16:02

if it's just the four of us, we wouldn't have bothered

16:04

coming back down because getting a newborn and a

16:06

toddler back down here, all

16:08

that stuff to a house that isn't

16:10

big enough to have four kids in it as well as

16:12

us just isn't. I know I don't

16:15

get any, not quite.

16:16

You're like, yeah, exactly. It's just there's no room to host anyone,

16:19

which is a guess it's a john lewis problem. I'm not

16:21

complaining. But it's like, it's just not bad. And

16:25

yeah, exactly. Exactly.

16:27

Yeah, it's a problem. Own it. Own it. So

16:29

we like but the big girls,

16:32

this is their favorite thing. Like you can take the kids, our

16:34

kids anywhere, but where they want to be is in Devon

16:36

with their mates and in the summer. So

16:39

we're like, right, we've

16:41

got to go back down and we've embraced it. And we got everyone

16:43

in the big got the old Land Rover, I got a

16:45

Defender 130 now, which has got eight seats in

16:47

it. But we stocked up the car

16:50

as much as we could paddle boards. We've

16:52

got a new great big bloody buggy thing.

16:55

And it's like, right, we've got everything in

16:57

the car, everyone in the car Freya, a week

16:59

and a bit having after having a baby she's

17:02

sandwiched in between two car seat baby seats

17:04

in the back. Buddha the

17:06

middle kid number two is in got

17:09

one of the pull up seats in the boot, the single seat

17:11

that's up she's, but she's completely

17:13

hemmed in by paddle boards and buggies

17:15

and luggage. So you can't see her. She's

17:18

in their seatbelt on headphones on

17:21

charger in the little socket you've got back there. So she's

17:23

alright,

17:24

peanut gets to go in the front. And

17:26

we make it down to Devon.

17:28

And it's great.

17:29

But it's kind of like

17:31

this house you've been here, it's, it's

17:33

fine, but it's

17:34

not a large home. And

17:37

it is not. It's like it's made of

17:39

cardboard. And we we

17:42

went really trendy and painted all the floorboards white.

17:44

Now that's cool. And it's low maintenance

17:47

and it does look nice. But it is really

17:49

noisy when you shoot yourself. It's yeah,

17:52

exactly. Exactly. When you have a dirty

17:54

protest is so noisy that we're

17:57

having to abandon our

18:00

sleep training principles where if

18:02

at home if the toddler wakes up at 6 30 she

18:05

gets left until seven on the dot and

18:07

she doesn't really cry because she knows she's

18:09

going to be there till seven and we'll come but

18:12

here she cries and everyone is awake

18:14

in a split second and the teenagers are hating

18:17

it and daddy i'm like

18:19

get her shut her up

18:22

before i do

18:23

yeah and then she

18:26

like the other night buddha walked in and like when

18:28

we're the night frey went to labor it's

18:30

like she's been awake for an hour she

18:32

does this every night every

18:34

night she wakes us up i was like right this

18:37

is a talk about their little sister their toddler i

18:39

was like she hasn't made a squeak in the middle

18:41

of the night for a year and she is not

18:43

yet too

18:44

so that what you're saying is not true why

18:46

do you always say that you pick on the smallest detail

18:49

okay okay okay everyone's

18:51

getting stressed including me um

18:54

so we we've come back down to the noise

18:56

chamber all right good luck basically

18:58

um eight seats

18:59

and a land rover go back to that yeah mate it's awesome

19:02

i thought you if you get two in the back in

19:07

the boot yeah so it's longer

19:09

you know the 110 i had the land rover defender 110 like you know you've

19:12

seen them ac 525 on cobra one two ten two

19:15

tall

19:16

one two ten two tall but it's 110 so it's

19:19

the longer one and it's got seven seats so you can pull

19:21

two seats up in the back yeah but this is the 130

19:24

so it's even longer

19:25

and when you're driving it

19:27

you wouldn't notice a difference but it's longer

19:30

and in the back you

19:32

know your middle row of seats like your normal back seat in the defender

19:35

the rear most ones in the boot are exactly the

19:37

same as those so there's no compromise

19:39

it's just like sitting in the back seat

19:42

and there's two full benches so you've got

19:45

two rows of three yep and it

19:47

properly works like we have had eight people

19:49

in it and you wouldn't want you wouldn't want

19:51

to go in the back but you could

19:53

go in the back because you can slide the middle seats forward

19:56

and back you could go in the back for 45

19:58

minutes comfortably that says to me

19:59

It is you can have one more wicked

20:02

no absolute absolutely no way Absolutely

20:06

no way on earth. Have you had

20:08

it yet the vasectomy?

20:10

No, I don't need I've

20:12

tried I tried to cook it man try to book

20:15

it day three worried you feel less I was

20:17

holding the little baby. I was holding

20:19

the baby in my arms and

20:22

Emailing contact us emailing

20:24

a facility near me in Bath and In

20:28

between Bath and Bristol and they replied to me

20:30

saying you need to get referred by your GP Yeah,

20:32

so I emailed the GP thing and they

20:34

said we're not doing online appointments at the moment Can

20:37

you basically email us back next week, which is

20:39

Thursday tomorrow?

20:42

Yeah, so I'm like right I am in

20:44

I am literally actively trying to arrange

20:47

someone to Take

20:49

it all away hmm take the pain away.

20:52

I'm ready mate. Yeah now yeah You

20:54

were ready four years ago, mate, you know that Exactly

20:59

and it's great. Luckily. We've got the

21:01

big girls. They don't like it when they get woken

21:04

up, but they are

21:06

There you know because when you it's character

21:08

got a new baby You've got to get

21:10

four kids to Devon including a newborn

21:12

and a toddler. You got to stop a couple of times We

21:15

had to go via

21:17

a midwife discharge appointment

21:20

in Chippenham, which is twit Yeah,

21:22

twitling a appointment 25 minutes

21:25

away from Devon So we had to go there before

21:27

we then left there and then went to Devon So it's one of those

21:29

days where it was like this could be a ball ache Yeah,

21:32

you finally get in get all the stuff in get

21:34

all your stuff back in the house unpack do

21:36

all that. Oh

21:38

Sit down and the toddler is

21:40

just wild with energy because she's been in the car We

21:43

have got two big girls who are just on

21:46

their feet playing with her all day until

21:48

bedtime without being asked It's just unbelievable

21:51

Pay my so lucky. Oh

21:53

Mate, it's they are amazing. Honestly, they

21:55

don't listen to my pod so I can say that shall we

21:57

have a well-timed break

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22:21

Right.

22:24

Let's get into the rugger. Come on. Oh,

22:27

God. Come on. Right. For

22:29

me. You want to do the Owen Farrell thing first? Okay.

22:33

I was going to start on a positive. France,

22:35

Scotland. Yeah, no, that's what I thought.

22:38

Let's start on something fun.

22:40

England, Wales was appalling.

22:43

I didn't enjoy it one

22:45

bit. And then a couple

22:47

of hours later, you've got Scotland

22:49

v France on. And that's a game. That's a proper game.

22:52

You know, you've got two teams who want to go out there

22:54

and play.

22:56

And it did. It was fast paced. And I thought Scotland

22:58

did really well. To start with.

23:00

It's a shame. They couldn't hold on

23:02

to be fair because they pushed. France

23:06

all the way. It was only the last kick.

23:10

Basically of the game which sealed it for

23:12

France, but Scotland

23:14

look good. You have to say that

23:16

they do that they they've got themselves

23:19

into a position now where they

23:21

play good face play rugby. So

23:23

they sort of understand. So it's a lot like

23:25

Glasgow a lot.

23:27

Most teams try and play this way, but a

23:29

lot of teams

23:31

aren't as good as it. You know, the way that

23:33

this decision making is really

23:35

good with a forward pod and whether it's tipped

23:37

on or whether it's put behind, they make good decisions

23:40

and whether that's just the forwards or

23:42

whether that's Finn Russell or a ball player back

23:45

behind calling it,

23:46

but they make good decisions. And when it's on

23:48

it's on and they know they know how

23:50

to play and they know how to get the ball out the back and then know how

23:52

to realign themselves. And when it's not

23:55

they play their short runners and some

23:57

of those lines hit by.

23:59

some of the forwards were really good like Jack

24:02

Dempsey, carries

24:05

all day, scummen

24:09

really good in the loose really

24:11

good and really good with ball in hand as well and

24:14

they just make good decisions and Carl

24:16

Steen snuck in for a couple of tries look

24:18

big and strong to be fair as did van der

24:20

Merver and whenever van der Merver gets the ball in hand

24:22

it's just

24:24

it always looks like men against boys it

24:26

just dominates the tackle even when you think he's not

24:29

he's gonna get hit back he just stays

24:31

on his feet that actually a little bit longer and

24:35

manages to buy himself a little bit of time but I

24:38

joke to the start of this pod saying Scotland

24:41

might be going home after the group stages they might

24:44

they still might that just shows you how tough their

24:46

group is with Ireland and South

24:48

Africa mine but

24:51

I can see huge improvement in

24:53

a Blair King Horn at the back you've

24:57

just got another ball player there

24:59

really good he plays ten for

25:03

Edinburgh most the most of time

25:05

I think he probably is a 15 because

25:07

he's got that much pace but getting

25:09

him either side of the rock with Finn

25:12

Russell

25:13

is just a huge threat

25:15

for them and I think they've got the the center ship

25:17

partner their center partnership in

25:21

Hugh Jones and Cioni

25:23

Tupluto I think they're the ones even though

25:25

redpath is good I

25:28

think those are the two really I'm

25:30

staffing McDowell is is a big unit but

25:32

I think

25:34

the combination of Pluto Tupluto

25:36

and Hugh Jones is

25:39

is the way forward for Scotland and obviously Finn

25:42

at ten as well

25:43

so they look for me they look a fairly

25:46

settled team now and they look like they know how they

25:48

want to play it's a massive

25:50

shame and to max out

25:53

that was yeah that was getting that was huge

25:56

you know it looks so innocuous as well how

25:58

we did it yeah Yeah, but

26:01

it was a really good game really enjoyed

26:03

it played the way you want to see Robbie

26:05

played a good advertisement for rugby if people

26:07

weren't really into rugby to watch a game like that

26:10

gets people interested because

26:12

nobody is going to want to play rugby after

26:14

watching England be Wales. What were

26:16

your thoughts on? Yeah, the France Scotland

26:18

boy. I know bang on

26:21

really enjoyed it. I don't think

26:23

France look properly at it

26:25

and don't think I have done for a little while. So

26:28

the notion of any notion of them going into

26:30

the tournament as favourites for me doesn't

26:33

wash at the moment. Mind you I thought

26:35

until a month or so ago that South Africa

26:37

were probably favourites now

26:39

I think if I had to put 20 quid on

26:42

a team it would be New Zealand to win it. In

26:45

brackets hope it's Ireland. If

26:48

it's not I'd love Ireland to

26:50

deliver on all their promise and go and do it but

26:52

New Zealand look fab to me but France

26:55

don't look quite there and I still

26:57

think a couple of little things. One big

26:59

thing about France is that when they

27:01

played

27:03

Ireland and lost relatively

27:06

comfortably in a pretty epic match in the Six

27:08

Nations two

27:11

things that stood out to me were

27:13

the conditioning. They didn't look and everyone

27:15

looked hanging in these games because they're pre-season games.

27:17

They just happen to be test matches which is pretty brutal

27:19

on the lungs but everybody's

27:22

looking hanging in these games. Everyone's sucking in

27:24

air except Jamie George. I don't know if you noticed that, never

27:27

gets tired. It's

27:28

the

27:30

weirdest thing. Everyone's

27:33

sucking in big ones but

27:36

France looked

27:38

knackered in the last 20 minutes which is one thing

27:41

in that Six Nations game but they also

27:43

for me it was one

27:46

brilliant team. Ireland just were a

27:48

brilliant team that everyone knew what

27:50

they were doing the whole time. So well organised

27:53

with the ball and without it and

27:56

France looked really or pretty well

27:58

organised without the ball. Defence has gone. up leagues

28:01

since Shaun Edwards arrived, we know that, but

28:04

I still think they are a team that can do

28:06

brilliant team things

28:08

but do look to certain individuals

28:10

to produce something brilliant

28:12

and the deeper you get into a World Cup the

28:14

better teams you're playing against.

28:17

It is harder for those individuals to just produce

28:19

something which is why when they do it's a standout

28:21

moment like your Jonah Lomus, like your Jason Robinson's

28:23

producing something from nothing. Cheslyn Coby against

28:26

England in the final.

28:27

Yeah, I still think they've

28:29

got some amazing players that

28:31

can do that against anybody but

28:33

it becomes less likely, the teams that are more likely

28:36

to win those games are the teams

28:38

that absolutely have it together as

28:40

a 15

28:41

when they've got the ball and when they haven't and for me

28:43

France look generally very well organised

28:46

defensively but

28:49

in attack I often think they

28:51

are looking to a penneux,

28:53

to a du Pont, to somebody,

28:56

to a Donti, to just go and do something

28:58

mate. It's like when I was playing England schoolboys,

29:00

I remember we used to just say get the ball to Bolsh, like

29:03

Ian Bolshaw, it was like if we're struggling we played against

29:05

Ireland schools at Lansdowne Road and it was like right,

29:08

but get the ball to Bolsh, it was literally like that

29:10

and Bolsh could just do something and then he got the ball and

29:13

did something because he was better than everyone else and

29:15

France

29:16

are a bit like that and

29:18

I think that doesn't win you a World Cup as you

29:21

know I think it's great fun if it does because you're going to see

29:23

some brilliant stuff but I felt a bit like that

29:26

about France, like they've got a lot of players,

29:28

amazing players, like running sideways looking for

29:30

a gap, speculating and you sort

29:32

of think I'm not sure

29:34

this is as good as Ireland or New Zealand who

29:36

look really cohesive as a team. The

29:38

other thing on Scotland, maybe I'm

29:40

wrong but

29:42

on Scotland I

29:45

like the forwards making good decisions, I agree with that

29:47

except and this is a really small margin

29:49

point but if you talk about fine margins at that level,

29:52

Xander Faguson not being there makes a difference,

29:54

makes a real difference because the one, like

29:57

WP now, I'm a massive fan because he's a very good

29:59

scrumage.

29:59

I think France got away with a couple of bits

30:02

they shouldn't have got away with at the weekend in the scrum WP

30:05

now is a he's a miracle at 37 I love

30:07

him but he was the one player who

30:09

stood up at first receiver a few times and Was

30:12

static and gave and it actually gave France

30:14

a run-up at the guys at the back And

30:17

I thought it's little things like that Which

30:20

if you lose a game by a few points you try

30:22

and you'd almost say right if Fagerson's not

30:24

playing against the spring box in a few weeks Let's

30:27

limit the amount of time number of times

30:29

he appears first receiver. Yeah, you can

30:32

not insult He's just you know, yeah,

30:34

you can do that. It's just organization more

30:36

so but yeah, yeah often the first receiver

30:39

Sometimes he takes it but

30:41

it's often the guy on the outside That

30:43

brings the brings the pace and

30:46

the power but yeah, yeah

30:47

But they do get organized. Well,

30:49

Scotland. I've seen that I've noticed that over

30:52

the last couple of really do yeah Yeah,

30:54

they get themselves in good positions

30:56

I'd love them to just I'd

30:58

love them to come together and just twat a big team

31:00

Yeah, well cut and really prove a poor can but 100%

31:03

they can they do it in the six nations fairly

31:05

regularly Yeah, it's just that

31:07

string of games together. They can't they can do it

31:09

once or twice, but then You

31:11

know backing that up three or four

31:13

times. I think they find hard at the moment

31:17

But yeah, I suppose Injury

31:20

comes in down to that a lot

31:22

losing key players, you know in order

31:24

to stay

31:26

The good teams that go through the competitions

31:28

are the ones that Generally

31:30

are injury free

31:31

and the core of the team

31:33

stands together. Yeah and stays together.

31:35

Yeah Yeah, get you

31:37

point a little bit on France You

31:40

can't look too much into I don't think you can look too

31:42

much into

31:43

the summer series I think I

31:46

think you've got to go back to six nations

31:48

a little bit because Fitness

31:51

plays a part

31:52

In this now that they're getting primed

31:54

for the World Cup,

31:56

you know These are these are games that they're

31:58

trying to get combinations together, but also So get

32:01

yourself fit, get yourself game ready. Minging

32:03

games, actually, aren't they? Yeah, they are. Horrible

32:05

games. They are. But I

32:07

mean, I just look at the French team and there

32:10

is class everywhere. I mean, DuPont. 100%, mate.

32:13

But you know, in that island France game

32:16

in the Six Nations, it was a brilliant

32:18

game. But there was one. And

32:21

my memory for detail, I'm afraid, is

32:23

my semantic memory isn't very good. So I don't

32:26

need to tweet in and say, I've got a bounce pass wrong

32:28

or something. There was a break. I think

32:30

Panno made an amazing, he either scored an amazing try

32:32

or made an amazing break, I think, which led to a try.

32:35

And it's like, what a team. And it was like, no, no. There

32:37

was a really poor pass that hit the ground.

32:40

Panno has to turn to pick it up. And he's

32:42

just a massive freak. And he makes a break.

32:45

Like, I say that's a compliment. He's just massive

32:47

and quick and aggressive. And

32:50

it's like, actually,

32:51

if you really look at it, it

32:53

probably should have been defended better. We always

32:56

used to joke the old bounce pass is indefendable.

32:59

Yeah, it's

33:00

hard. But it actually

33:02

was not brilliant play from France.

33:05

And a big player picked up the board and legged

33:07

it. And it's kind of like, well, that does work

33:09

sometimes. But I don't think

33:11

it's less likely to work against an informed

33:14

New Zealand or South Africa,

33:16

I would suggest. But I could be wrong. Worked against Ireland, number

33:18

one team in the world. So I could be talking rubbish. I hope

33:20

I am, because I'd love to see him

33:22

be brilliant. That opening game, France,

33:25

New Zealand. Wow.

33:28

It's going to set the tone for the tournament.

33:31

And I

33:34

think whoever wins that will go on and win it.

33:37

Sean Edwards. We're

33:40

going to get to Sean Edwards in a sec when we talk about Owen

33:42

Farrell. But

33:44

he's got a column or he's

33:47

ringing into the columnist in the Daily Mail,

33:49

who's writing it up and quoting him sort of thing, I

33:51

think. Or he's quoted in the Daily Mail anyway. And

33:54

he's saying, big game for us, the first

33:56

game. But if it doesn't go even more important,

33:59

is that Italy game? the second game

34:01

because if the first game doesn't go our way that Italy

34:03

game becomes vital and

34:06

I'm almost like you

34:08

sort of wonder if they really think they can win it I'm I'm

34:11

reading too much into that. I think he's probably just

34:13

trying to pressure off the expectation.

34:15

Yeah you're right you're right yeah.

34:17

Because they'll beat Italy. They'll definitely beat Italy

34:20

I think. Yeah yeah yeah. But

34:22

it's just the hype of the first game is absolutely

34:25

huge. Right we'll get into

34:27

England Wales now. Great

34:30

fun. First actually let me just

34:32

say let me just say from the start Tommy. Yeah.

34:34

I enjoyed it but I enjoyed

34:37

it because

34:39

we the house was chaos

34:41

and there's loads of kids everywhere and people

34:43

are visiting and it's all really nice and

34:46

I was excused to go and watch the whole game

34:49

with I had to watch it in the evening and dodge

34:51

social media. I watched it in the evening when

34:53

one of the kids had gone to bed

34:56

and I took a bottle of wine into

34:59

the sitting room on my own and watched it. So I

35:02

was in heaven mate. So

35:04

the quality of the game didn't affect my enjoyment because I was

35:06

on my own in a quiet room watching rugby. I

35:08

watched it in the lounge. Apart from that

35:11

and

35:13

it was three nil after nine minutes and then

35:15

it became six nil after 40

35:18

and nothing went on really.

35:20

A yellow card

35:22

for Henry Arendelle

35:24

which was pretty poor

35:27

yellow card might affect his chances actually. It

35:29

looked like a kid trying to get in the game didn't it?

35:31

Yeah it did. But you do something like. Instance

35:33

like that must

35:35

fury eight coaches because you

35:38

do that in a World Cup. Yeah.

35:39

You could be out. It was just so

35:42

basic. I don't know why he did it.

35:45

Hope

35:46

Dowie Lake is OK.

35:47

He got sort of a croc roll

35:50

from the side.

35:51

Something that has to be banned. I've seen so

35:54

many horrendous injuries with

35:56

that because someone's on your leg. You're trying to turn sideways.

35:59

I really hope he's OK.

35:59

Okay, um, Sam Perry comes

36:02

on and there's one run down the left hand side

36:04

boy. You look quick Oh look like a second flying

36:06

mate, wouldn't he? I know Shane

36:09

Shane van Portfley is out as well

36:12

Yeah, horrible poor below. Yeah, it is hard

36:14

these games

36:15

Adjust you just you just

36:18

hope everyone stays fit. You don't want

36:20

to see an injury You don't want to see someone miss

36:22

their the chances of playing the World Cup Fortunately,

36:25

fortunately, he's got youth on his side and

36:27

he will make another one, isn't

36:29

Pretty sure about that But

36:33

Nothing really got going in the game flats. There

36:36

was a high tackle on Josh

36:38

Adams, which Probably

36:41

could have been a red card. It was

36:43

a yellow And

36:47

Then you have the main incident of

36:49

the game the main talking point of the game Owen

36:52

Farrell So

36:55

well before we get to that before I get to that the Josh

36:57

Adams thing with Freddie Stewart, yep

37:01

It's an interesting one whereby I

37:03

know people people love climbing

37:06

on this stuff and tweeting and Instagram

37:08

posting controversial views on it, but

37:10

he gets taken out in the air that is there's

37:12

just no question of that he

37:15

lands on his side and

37:17

Grabs his head

37:20

now as anyone knows who has

37:22

been

37:23

Twatted hard by Trevor

37:26

Liotta Chris Hallofia You

37:29

know side on you do not need to get

37:31

hit in the head for it to rattle your head No,

37:33

not do not need that like you can absolutely You

37:36

know if a you can absolutely if

37:39

a motorbike hit you and didn't touch your head There's a good

37:41

chance it would hurt your head, right? Yeah, so

37:44

but he grabs his head and this is not me

37:46

saying he's Play actor

37:48

and anything like that because

37:49

to start saying that stuff is like well You

37:52

can tell when someone's play acting often unless you're

37:54

really sure I think you need to be quiet because

37:57

you might be wrong On that

37:59

I think if he grabs

37:59

his head, my inclination

38:02

not to stamp out stamp

38:05

out diving. I'm not I'm not saying

38:07

he was but I think if someone

38:10

grabs their head like that after a fall from

38:12

the air or a big collision like that, there

38:14

is a good argument that they should have

38:17

an HIA like someone posted it and I thought

38:20

that's not my idea but that's quite a good one.

38:22

Definitely. Definitely. You do grab your head in

38:24

certain situations when you've hurt another

38:27

part of your body like you roll on the floor,

38:29

your leg hurts, you do grab your head but

38:32

yeah it's true it was a heavy fall and

38:35

he was an HIA'd was he?

38:37

I think we could be wrong here but

38:39

I think he was not. No, no I don't think he was

38:41

either. Tame Basham was and

38:44

failed that and didn't come back. Failed it. Yeah

38:47

but no I don't think Josh Adams was and

38:51

he needed to be because you're right

38:53

if he's grabbing his head like that there is

38:55

he's obviously hurt it or it

38:57

was a big fall it was a big fall and

39:00

he was yellow carded

39:02

it's one of those where he was tackled in

39:04

the air he landed on his side so

39:07

you wouldn't be I wasn't too bothered if it

39:10

was yellow I wasn't too bothered if it was a red it was

39:12

sort of in between those two I think so

39:15

he got a yellow

39:18

but Farrell let's move on to

39:20

that shall we? Yes. The

39:24

ruling was that there was a significant

39:26

a significant dip in height from Tame Basham which because

39:36

he was put off course

39:38

a little bit by Jamie George

39:41

but for me I think

39:44

initial contact is just below

39:46

the chin

39:51

I think he hits him just below and then the

39:53

shoulder follows through and hits the chin

39:55

but it's the windpipe it's the arm

39:58

it's the tucked arm you can't

39:59

There's not a significant drop in height from Owen

40:02

Farrell. He's upright when he goes to

40:04

make the tackle. Tame Basham

40:06

does dip a little bit, but not enough.

40:10

And

40:10

that is a red card. It is a red card. I've

40:13

seen loads of cards like that given. Loads.

40:16

But this sets a precedent now

40:18

for the rest of the tournament or the

40:21

rest of rugby. If that's deemed not

40:22

a red card and he's free to play, then

40:27

all the other hits like

40:29

that during the tournament, because

40:31

there will be some, can't be a red. It

40:35

can't be. Yeah.

40:37

He has to be banned from

40:39

that tackle. That's just, I like him as a player. I

40:42

think

40:42

he's a great player. I really do. I rate him really

40:44

highly. But you can't tackle

40:46

like that. You just

40:49

can't. You can't stay high. You can't have your

40:51

arm by your side. And you

40:53

can't. You can't have your arm by your side.

40:56

And you can't stay upright. You have

40:58

to dip.

41:00

So I

41:01

don't know. Why do you think

41:03

he's not been banned?

41:04

Do you think it's because they're a good captain

41:07

and they're a little bit worried? So

41:10

do you know when there was that famous

41:13

solicitor called Mr. Loophole

41:15

or Dr. Loophole or something? And

41:17

I think David Beckham was one of the

41:19

famous ones. But celebrities and rich people

41:21

would use him to get them off speeding fines. Yeah.

41:25

Remember him? I think it's like one of

41:27

those things where it's

41:30

a lot like having, I don't know,

41:32

it's a

41:34

lot like playing with Danny Grucoq.

41:37

It's like if you don't support the team he plays for,

41:40

if you're an opposition player or fan or coach,

41:43

he's an easy guy to hate. But

41:45

would you quite like it if he was on your team? Yeah.

41:48

Right? I'm getting somewhere with it. I'm only playing.

41:51

But it's like the Dr. Loophole lawyer

41:53

thing,

41:55

everyone thought it was outrageous. But

41:59

actually that's because most... people couldn't

42:01

afford it.

42:02

Right, so it doesn't seem fair.

42:04

And it's almost like Richard Smith, the

42:06

KC, who

42:10

is, I mean, let's, it's

42:12

not about blaming anyone, he is literally

42:15

employed

42:16

to,

42:17

you know, to reduce England players bands

42:20

and help them in disciplinary. That is his job. So

42:22

that is his job. So everyone deserves

42:24

a fair defense, right, in all

42:26

sorts, in all

42:27

aspects of law. Now, that is his

42:29

job. So he has done his job very, very

42:32

well. Now,

42:33

another way to look at it, I will get

42:36

to a point of his job. And I promise, another way to look

42:38

at it is that Jamie George

42:40

does make contact with Tane

42:42

Basham,

42:44

right? He does make contact

42:46

with him before Owen Farrell hits him. So what

42:48

happens is a percentage,

42:51

whatever that is, indeterminate collision

42:56

is beyond the control

42:58

of the ball carrier and crucially,

43:00

the tackler is beyond Owen Farrell's control.

43:03

So the other way to look at it is

43:06

that you're talking about the precedent it sets

43:08

in terms of this World Cup in terms of amateurs

43:10

watching on TV kids saying, well, I'm allowed to do

43:12

it. And actually,

43:15

the other precedent is that what you are

43:17

doing is issuing a ban

43:21

for a collision, some of which was

43:23

completely out of the tackle as well. So that is his control.

43:26

Now, I'm just trying to, I'm just giving a different

43:28

perspective, right? However,

43:31

and the left, Owen Farrell's left arm threatens

43:34

to come up a bit. So I think he's the palm of his

43:36

left hand may even make contact with Tane

43:38

Basham when he hits him. However,

43:40

I

43:41

completely agree with you. I'm just saying

43:44

that

43:45

people go mad about it. And I completely understand,

43:47

like Danny Cipriani went on Twitter and kind

43:49

of said, hey, guys, why is everyone going so mad?

43:51

And why all the vitriol? It's like, hang

43:53

on a minute. This is there

43:56

are amateur players all over the world,

43:58

the UK, whatever. who are being

44:00

dictated to in terms of safety, their

44:02

games being changed massively because of safety

44:05

and they see the top player in the country do this

44:08

and in inverted commas get away with it, at least not

44:10

get banned for it. And

44:12

this is someone with a history of hitting

44:14

like this and a history of getting banned for

44:17

it and not getting banned when some people thought he should have

44:19

been. It is emotional, people

44:21

are emotive about sport and you can't

44:23

condone abuse and vitriol but as

44:25

soon as you try and dilute the emotional

44:27

response to sport, you miss the

44:29

point. The emotional response is

44:32

literally why TV companies

44:34

pay millions of pounds and finance

44:37

the professional game. So you

44:39

need tribal, we need and

44:41

want tribal emotional reactions,

44:43

that is what we want. You don't need to be

44:45

horrible. Like the Ashes this year. Yeah, you need

44:48

it, yeah exactly, we need it. It's

44:50

literally the lifeblood of sport.

44:53

Right, so to say why gay, why the

44:55

emotional reaction? It's like no, no, that

44:57

is why because you need it. So that's missing the point.

45:00

So that's in perspective but I

45:02

think the touch shoulder, it never looked

45:04

legal to me from start to finish. No it didn't and

45:07

I think if it was if it was a soak-up tackle

45:09

then you could sort of understand why because Basham

45:12

was slightly knocked off course, get

45:15

it, but

45:18

he does put a shot in, you know, he

45:21

moves into the tackle

45:22

and he is very, very upright

45:24

and his arm's by his side. I

45:27

remember years ago, a few years ago, I was actually

45:30

commentating and it was

45:32

Munster against Gloucester and actually

45:34

as it happens,

45:36

Danny Cipriani was playing 10

45:38

and he kind of was moving

45:41

backwards. It was a very passive attempt to tackle

45:44

without being horrible, hoping someone else would make the

45:46

tackle right, which is fine. A lot

45:48

of 10s are like that and

45:50

or they were and yeah shoulder

45:52

to the head red card. Now

45:54

that wouldn't be a red card now. Nope, I

45:56

don't think so either. When you look back you think Cip's

45:59

that they were the rules. They were the laws that the force is

46:01

coming from the force is coming from the ball carrier

46:04

rather than a tackler in that instance Yeah,

46:06

but Farrell's gone aggressive and buried in mate.

46:09

Yeah, so that is different it

46:11

is but no bound so

46:14

Good for England

46:16

or not. Well or not But

46:19

you know, you know, you're really good when it came on exactly,

46:23

right and when when you

46:27

when you the Deagonizing bit would have been

46:29

if he'd got five weeks and would have missed

46:32

You know what if say that bandy when he was gonna miss

46:34

three World Cup games or

46:36

the first two or something I think you

46:38

need to miss what I needed a miss at least

46:40

one World Cup game

46:41

I think yeah, but the people to understand

46:45

But Borthwick would have then had to make a

46:47

decision Do you take someone who definitely isn't playing

46:49

for the first couple of games and they probably would

46:52

because they got Ford and Smith they probably would have done but

46:55

then Farrell would have played in the World Cup having not played

46:57

for five weeks actually would make any difference to him probably

47:00

but That's when it would

47:02

have got awkward. I would say

47:04

that

47:05

you know watching all the premiership stuff I mean

47:07

Farrell has just been mega for

47:09

saris as you know, you've watched it He's just played

47:11

beautifully the last couple of seasons and

47:14

he looks chilled. He smiles it's

47:17

relaxed and he still

47:19

you know legally twats people and

47:21

goes hard, but

47:23

He has looked in beautiful form that just

47:25

not all his fault That just hasn't translated

47:27

to England and there are certain formulas at saris

47:30

that won't work at England and aren't repeated and all that sort of

47:32

Stuff it just hasn't quite transferred

47:35

Marcus Smith has never quite been given

47:37

the reins for a consistent period and then he has started

47:40

and it hasn't gone brilliantly and He hasn't

47:42

always started with a massive 12 like he's had

47:44

at Quinn's and there's all these things I'm

47:46

not sure that England aren't better with Ford

47:48

at 10 and Smith on the bench bringing something different.

47:51

That's And another point I was

47:53

going to ask you about

47:55

Is that Brendan Gallagher? Legend

47:57

of rugby right British rugby writing he he

48:00

suggested on Twitter, he's like, why are they

48:02

wasting Ollie Lawrence at 12? Why is he not playing 13?

48:05

He's got the pace to play 13, more

48:07

space, more damage. And I thought, oh

48:10

yeah, I quite like that. I'm gonna steal that idea. What

48:12

do you think of that?

48:17

He has got the pace to play 13. It's just

48:19

then who'd you play at 12, Toulagi?

48:22

Would you play Farrell? Guess so.

48:24

And Ford. Exactly. There's

48:26

so many different combinations. I mean, I go back

48:29

to the best game I've seen England play in a long time, and

48:31

that was the semifinal.

48:33

I think it was a quarter-oral semifinal against

48:35

New Zealand. And it was the best

48:38

I've seen him play. And that was with

48:41

Ford and Farrell, 10-12. I'm

48:44

not sure it is the right combination

48:46

for England now. I quite like Ollie

48:48

Lawrence at 12. Marchant,

48:52

I like him at 13. But then Toulagi's

48:55

gotta fit in, I think. Because I think he's, if

48:58

he's fit,

48:59

he's too good to leave out, I think.

49:02

And too much of a threat to leave out. So I don't

49:04

know. Do you think still? Yeah, I do. This

49:06

is the issue you still got with England, I think,

49:08

is you don't know the best combination.

49:11

And going into a World Cup, that's not

49:13

a great position to be in. I think with

49:15

certain teams, you get it. You know.

49:18

But with England,

49:20

no idea, mate, who's the

49:23

best combo at 10, 12, 13 is.

49:26

I think Farrell is, I've really

49:28

rate him, and I think you have to have him in there. Just

49:31

because what I've seen with Saracens

49:34

and England. But he's

49:37

a brilliant player. He is brilliant.

49:42

So, but I

49:44

don't know, mate. I still think you need

49:46

a physical threat, be it power.

49:49

Yeah, you do. Or brutal line running

49:51

at 12. I still think you need, 12 or 13.

49:53

The second 5.8, I think.

49:55

Yeah, I just look at the French

49:57

model. I look at, you know. look

50:01

at Jonathan Dontia, look at, you know, Henschel's

50:03

a big unit as well, look at Esther Hazen

50:05

and Dialandi, you look at Samu Kurevi,

50:08

you think it's not the only way to play and it isn't

50:10

the only way to... Jordy Barrett's a massive man. He's huge. But

50:13

it is really handy to have a physical

50:16

threat

50:17

close to your fly half because otherwise

50:19

it just seems to make it easier to shut down and fly

50:21

half because you can take one eye off the 12 because

50:24

they're not brutally quick or brutally powerful.

50:27

I think it... you know... But

50:29

this 12 does have to be a ballplayer

50:31

as well. It cannot be just straight up and down. I

50:34

think it depends on Johnny Williams'

50:36

fitness this week because he gets himself fit

50:39

and then he has a run of games, be it

50:42

four, five or six, and gets injured

50:44

again.

50:45

Yeah. That's happened ever since he's come to

50:47

Wales. So there's talk that he's

50:49

going to be fit this weekend, so it's

50:51

a big game for him because he could

50:54

be the answer for Wales at 12. I think I

50:56

really like Mason Grady at 13. I think 15

50:59

is nailed on in Liam Williams. He was by far the best

51:01

wash player out there. Even though he dropped a couple of balls.

51:05

Nice class.

51:06

They looked horrible

51:08

to take the spiral up and under where

51:10

the ball just moves in the air. When it's end

51:13

over end, it's easy to see

51:15

the flight path of the ball. You

51:17

know, but when it's spiraling in the air, it

51:20

moves left and right. The wind takes it. They're

51:23

horrendous to take and I think, you

51:25

know, you can excuse him for

51:28

dropping a couple of them because we

51:30

know he's one of the best under the high ball.

51:34

I'd say at least one of them was impossible

51:36

to take. There wasn't many

51:40

big performances from Wales and I think there'd be quite

51:42

a few boys that might have played themselves out of the team.

51:45

Gar

51:47

Thomas did okay, I think in their

51:50

loose head. I must say,

51:52

I thought he was excellent and I thought a couple of decisions

51:55

were right, but a couple of decisions didn't go his way. I

51:58

thought he was excellent defensive.

51:59

as well and Dowie Lake. The line

52:02

out was poor, really poor but the hook

52:04

always gets the blame and I think he went off wanted to overthrow

52:07

his there. He did go off early but the line out you're

52:09

right was non-existent. It

52:11

was non-existent the line out. Yeah it was

52:13

awful. The timing was off, there was no lift, the

52:16

communication. You can see it wasn't

52:18

just the hook and you can see it was the whole movement of

52:20

the line out so for whatever reason there

52:23

shouldn't be a massive excuse

52:25

for that because

52:27

you've had a lot of time to work on line

52:29

outs and for it to go as badly

52:31

as that was pretty

52:34

atrocious I thought. But

52:36

Dowie Lake I like a lot. Yeah Sam

52:39

Parry came on and looked okay as

52:41

well. He's very good in the loose, scores a lot of

52:43

tries. I was looking forward to seeing Tame

52:45

Basham

52:46

and he went off early and

52:48

once he came on didn't reappear.

52:51

Dan Bigger looked okay when he came off the bench

52:54

and set up a try

52:57

where Joe Roberts went through and

52:59

Joe Roberts looked fast. Do you see him going on the outside of

53:02

Olly Lawrence? Quick mate. Yeah.

53:04

Quick. It's been good for the Scarlett's, linked

53:06

really well. Maybe that suggests

53:08

that Olly Lawrence doesn't have the pace to play 13 but

53:10

I think it was more angles than it was pure pace. It was more

53:12

angles but it's also been good laterally as well

53:14

as in a straight line.

53:16

You've got to be agile. Yeah like Johnathan Joseph

53:18

always was. Yeah, yeah and Joe Marchand

53:20

is as well. I mean

53:22

that take from Joe Marchand was nearly

53:25

absolutely freaking amazing.

53:27

He's just out of reach when

53:29

he dives through it. If there's one player I'd

53:31

back to take that English it'd be him. Elliot

53:33

Daly. He's amazing at that. Or

53:35

Elliot Daly or Ante Watson. There's three of them. There's three of them probably.

53:38

And Olly Woodburn, there's four of them.

53:41

Glue on his hands normally. But

53:43

yeah it wasn't a great performance by well.

53:45

They shouldn't have allowed England to score 12 men.

53:47

That was a bit embarrassing. Should

53:50

have done better when we had three-man advantage

53:52

even though we scored a try.

53:54

You know, 15 against 12.

53:57

Should hammer him really. You've got to be doing better than that.

53:59

Yeah. What

54:01

do you think about the damn big it did look decent

54:03

when he came on but then it

54:06

I know it you take each match on its merits

54:08

and you want to win it but what's the point in bringing him on

54:10

to a point you you sort of know yeah

54:13

you know what you're gonna get there and thought I'd

54:15

almost leave him off there because and let Owen

54:18

Williams. Yep he's not going to do anything

54:20

different than he's done in the last 12-15 years for

54:23

Wells there's no

54:25

gonna be no surprise at all I agree

54:27

with you

54:28

he did look okay when he came on that he seemed

54:30

to steady the ship a little bit but it's a warm-up game.

54:32

He's obviously a very good player but it's a warm up game.

54:34

My point being in that yeah

54:37

try something you know try and you

54:40

know I don't I don't think the actual intent

54:42

to attack was very good from

54:45

both teams now yeah you know you're talking

54:47

about a friendly game it is a friend I know as people

54:49

say there's no friendlies but it is a friendly there's nothing on

54:51

it it's it's a warm-up game to get

54:53

yourself fit you've got to go out there and

54:55

you've got to try something a little bit different why

54:58

why take a line off the top

55:00

sit in the pocket and put the ball in the air

55:03

you know

55:05

I think there was a lack of ambition

55:07

from Wales

55:08

and that was pretty

55:11

annoying really because

55:12

why do you want to squeeze out a team and try

55:14

and arm wrestle them into

55:17

a into a victory when you've got the

55:19

perfect chance to go out there and try something try

55:21

and be creative. Well maybe because that's how you absolutely

55:24

how you intend to play at the World Cup. Well

55:27

they're not gonna win they're not gonna get far if that's how

55:29

they'd want to play because we just don't have the size

55:31

and we're just relying on other teams to make mistakes

55:34

when we need to score tries. I

55:36

hope they pick Sam Costello at 10

55:39

because when he gets the ball and

55:41

he takes it to the line he takes it flat he

55:44

puts players through holes he's a running

55:46

threat

55:47

and when you've got like watch Entomak

55:50

he is just a threat when he goes through a hole

55:52

he's gone like his try it just

55:54

gets on the outside of stain and he's gone

55:57

absolutely flying through the hole scores

55:59

his try

55:59

when you got a ten like that, it just

56:03

creates space elsewhere and Costello

56:06

is that run and threat. So, really want to see

56:08

him at ten. I think I think he should

56:11

be for Wales' first choice

56:13

going into the World Cup because I think you have to,

56:15

Wales have

56:17

to evolve. I have to play differently.

56:20

It's not going to work just sitting

56:22

in the pocket putting up up and unders. It might

56:24

work for one game against a big top

56:26

tier one nation but it's not going to

56:28

work. It's not going

56:30

to work differently.

56:32

So, yeah, I think that I think

56:35

the box kick chase

56:37

get your detail right. Part

56:39

of the bus type thing. I just really,

56:42

really hope I'm right. I do not think it's going to

56:44

win you a World Cup. I think you have to go out and score tries

56:46

and people can talk about how one

56:48

dimensional the spring box were and all that sort of stuff but

56:50

they've got genius outside twelve

56:53

and well they have had it look on your arms in

56:55

your Disney but if they've had

56:57

genius there and they scored some brilliant tries and they're not

57:00

just a box kicking team in the semi final in the

57:02

last World Cup. It was

57:04

awful nine eight. I think it was against Wales. That was awful. It was

57:06

just a hundred box kicks but actually when they

57:09

properly play their forward carrying

57:12

and breakdown work is a thing of beauty because it's just

57:15

savage. So it's not boring. It's it's

57:17

really aggressive. I just don't think

57:19

the percent

57:20

you know that that not percentage is that game plan. I

57:23

agree with you. Wind your World Cup gets you that deep. I really

57:25

don't. It squeezes out teams and it gets you the odd win

57:27

against a big nation but you're not

57:29

going to be able to play regularly

57:32

like that. So you

57:33

need to evolve. Anyway

57:35

Flatsy you've

57:37

got England Island this weekend. Yeah big game

57:42

now. Yeah. Tell you what. You've

57:44

got to go all out, haven't you? Yes. You're

57:48

number one team. Yeah. England certainly

57:52

have

57:52

because they need to find some form with their first choice team and

57:55

they haven't got any yet in their first

57:57

game. Big one. So I'm

57:59

I am

58:02

primarily interested to see who Ireland

58:04

pick.

58:05

That's what I'm thinking. I want, I

58:07

want Ireland to go full throttle as well. Just

58:10

cause I'm watching it on telly and I like

58:12

watching Ireland play. Like I want the best, I want the best

58:14

team out there. But

58:17

it'll be interesting. I can't imagine

58:19

a

58:21

lack of fight from England. You certainly saw a lot of

58:23

fight at the weekend, but that's, that should be a given. That's

58:25

a given at pro level. You, we all

58:27

fought hard. It's just some people are better than others.

58:31

Some, you know, some people are better players than others.

58:33

I don't think it's the dog. It should be dog in everyone. Yeah,

58:35

I don't think it should be your end or the result. I

58:37

think just finding combinations at work and finding

58:39

something positive to take from the game as in,

58:41

oh, that 10, 12, 13 combo

58:44

look really good. Or that back row combo look good. Or

58:46

the line out function.

58:48

Yeah. Or the scrum function. Wales got South

58:50

Africa and that's, that's what I want to see. I just

58:52

want to see a couple of combinations work, you

58:55

know, whether it's Thomas Williams,

58:57

Sam Costello or, or whether it's

58:59

Garth Davis and Sam Costello. I want to see

59:01

something like game that makes,

59:04

it's positive. It makes me think, right, those

59:07

two look good.

59:08

You know, they're going to be our, our combination

59:10

for the World Cup and the centers as well. There's been something

59:13

like 19 different center combinations for

59:15

Wales since, yeah.

59:17

Wayne Pivac took over and now. So I

59:20

want to see. Well like England, isn't it? Yeah, it is a bit like

59:22

that. And it just shows you how good a solid

59:24

center partnership is with that, that understanding.

59:27

And Ireland have that, I think,

59:29

whether, whether it's Bundy, Aki,

59:31

Ringrose, or whether it's Henshaw, Ringrose,

59:34

whether it's Aki or Henshaw,

59:37

they played a lot together in those different combinations

59:40

and it's just works and it's proven. And I want to see

59:42

that. Well, I really hope they go Costello,

59:45

Johnny Williams, Mason Grady.

59:48

I want to see Mason Grady at 13.

59:50

I think he's wonderful player. He's

59:52

got so much. Do you love him? Do you? I

59:55

love him. He's got so much pace. He's so

59:57

athletic. He's big.

59:59

friend he's the real

1:00:02

deal

1:00:03

but just a walk past kids the other day a bit

1:00:05

of time yeah sorry

1:00:08

I didn't try that walk past some kids of the day and

1:00:10

this one kid said to like his sister whatever

1:00:12

or friend whatever it was you know you

1:00:15

marry that bag if you love it so much idiot

1:00:20

now you're doing it marry that bag you know it's much

1:00:22

idiot but I don't think that well it's gonna be

1:00:24

in South Africa I've seen this African team oosh

1:00:27

scrum line out

1:00:29

in the ties yeah

1:00:32

thanks very much yeah flats I've got to go I've got to go

1:00:35

get my

1:00:36

retainers for my teeth now I'm

1:00:39

going to the beach actually on the boat I'll

1:00:41

be smug about it no Freya's

1:00:44

taking the toddler and the baby to her mums down the

1:00:46

road and I'm taking the big girls to the beach

1:00:48

we get absolutely lashed except I'm not gonna have any

1:00:51

bears at all but that's fine yeah

1:00:54

yeah

1:00:55

yeah don't worry about me I'll

1:00:57

be right look keep

1:00:59

going good luck to you boy and good luck everybody

1:01:02

keep going all right yeah and we'll speak to you

1:01:04

next Monday for the final autumn series pardon

1:01:07

hopefully we'll be doing some ITV ones

1:01:09

as well throughout the World Cup is it the final one

1:01:11

yeah of the summer series

1:01:14

yeah fine fine yeah we do oh yeah we're doing

1:01:16

a ITV one aren't

1:01:18

we oh good fun touch Harry

1:01:22

would see in a bit