0:00

The. Our culture today's you know

0:02

through woke ideology could agree Theory:

0:04

We took a lot about privilege.

0:06

You talk a lot about when

0:08

a white privilege. male privilege, Christian

0:10

real privilege. All these different things.

0:12

but the reality is there is

0:14

a Western privilege that people do

0:16

not think about The western privilege

0:18

of suffering being a surprise. Outstanding

0:21

is a production of The Washington Stand,

0:23

where you can find news and commentary

0:25

from a biblical worldview. Rocked.

0:27

Outstanding! We have critical conversations about

0:29

the needs of the day and

0:31

the ideas that shape us offer

0:33

me. Christian Worldview. I'm Joseph back

0:35

on in. It's my pleasure to

0:37

be guiding the conversation today with

0:39

you. Now the overturn of Roe

0:41

versus Wade was not expected to

0:43

settle the issue abortion and it

0:45

definitely has not. The battle that

0:47

was returned to the states is

0:49

raging. And it is

0:51

likely to be one of the most

0:54

important issues to voters in the upcoming

0:56

presidential election Course states have responded

0:58

in very different ways, with some states

1:00

banning abortion entirely or other states have

1:03

created abortion tourism and paid for the

1:05

expenses of people to travel to

1:07

their state for an abortion. So clear

1:09

and have different perspectives on this

1:11

issue. Meanwhile, the effort

1:14

to legalize and encourage assisted

1:16

suicide continues to gain momentum

1:18

around the globe and also

1:20

forces us to consider like

1:22

abortion does, what makes a

1:24

life worth living. Fourteen nations

1:26

now have a so called

1:28

right to die legislation watch

1:30

and in the Netherlands they

1:32

expect ten thousand people to

1:34

end their own lives under

1:36

that nations right. Did I

1:38

lock and now and and

1:40

not all of those cases

1:42

involve terminal. Illness. The

1:45

Dutch government allows doctors to euthanize children

1:47

as young as one the ears open.

1:49

obviously one year old cannot consent to

1:51

ending their own life. So what's all

1:54

this? Me and here in the U

1:56

S? Ten states along with the District

1:58

of Columbia allow. assisted suicide

2:02

Ironically some of the nations

2:04

who have embraced assisted suicide

2:06

most enthusiastically are also

2:09

running strong suicide prevention

2:11

campaigns Why would that

2:13

be is there a connection

2:15

between the abortion industry and the

2:18

assisted suicide? Industry

2:20

now are these separate issues or issues

2:22

that need to be addressed simultaneously? That's

2:24

what we're gonna talk about today and

2:27

joining me for this conversation is Samuel

2:29

say Samuel is the founder

2:31

of slow to write dot-com and

2:33

a contributor to true North

2:36

Center He's a former

2:38

community liaison at the Canadian Center

2:40

for bioethical reform and the

2:42

former spokesman on critical race theory for

2:44

parents as first educators Samuel

2:47

is that Ghanaian Canadian and currently

2:49

resides in Ohio with his wife

2:51

and their newborn son He

2:55

just wrote about this topic of assisted

2:57

suicide at world opinions in an article

2:59

titled giving up on life Which I

3:01

commend to you highly and he joins

3:03

me now Samuel welcome to outstanding. Thank

3:05

you for having me. It's an honor Well,

3:08

there's a lot on this topic that I want to get

3:10

into with you get many observers Have

3:12

said they think the West is in the

3:15

process of committing suicide and they kind of

3:17

mean that Metaphorically, but

3:19

in this case we're talking about

3:21

actual suicide How do

3:24

you see the West embracing suicide

3:26

in its loss? Hmm.

3:29

Yeah I think

3:31

I mentioned this in the article. One of the

3:33

things that's really interesting is that

3:35

for so long, you know Some

3:38

might think that you know Nations

3:42

outside the West might actually be

3:44

better on this issue at least in terms of the suicide

3:46

rates But it's actually much worse.

3:48

Honestly, even surprised me until I know about it a few

3:50

years ago that Ghana which doesn't

3:52

talk about suicide at all. It's not talked

3:55

about there's a lot of shame It's a

3:57

very honor shame culture and it doesn't get

3:59

talked about. And I suppose

4:03

partly because of that, there's a very

4:05

high suicide rate, higher than the US

4:07

or Canada, which really surprised me. But

4:10

in the West, suicide

4:13

has been a major topic

4:16

for a long time, especially when it comes to young

4:18

people. It's been addressed. People,

4:21

especially in Canada, where I know I mentioned

4:24

in an article, there's been a massive, massive,

4:26

massive social,

4:29

cultural drive to

4:31

push against the issue of suicide.

4:35

And yet,

4:37

because of us pushing against just

4:40

biblical values and because of

4:43

us embracing horrific views

4:45

on life, one of

4:47

the things I always say is that

4:49

a culture that does not

4:51

honor God will not honor those made in

4:54

his image. And you see

4:56

that in the Netherlands and in Canada,

4:58

these are two nations that have become

5:00

culturally. Just my wife, her ancestry

5:02

is Dutch. And

5:04

I was talking to her dad, who's a

5:07

pastor about this recently, where obviously we know

5:09

the Reformation was very strong in the Netherlands,

5:11

but over right now, 21st century,

5:13

it's become a very secular nation in many

5:15

ways, very similar to Canada. And

5:17

that has led to horrific views on

5:19

the value of life because we don't value the

5:21

people who made us. We're going to naturally

5:24

push against the meaning

5:27

of life and its value. You

5:29

mentioned there kind of how

5:31

Ghana and your understanding of kind

5:34

of that culture, and

5:36

then Canada deals with this very

5:38

differently. What

5:41

do you attribute the different

5:43

attitudes towards suicide generally

5:46

in various countries? Is

5:49

that just

5:51

culture? I mean, of course, religion is

5:53

part of culture, but how do you

5:55

see that? Because you do have unique,

5:57

different perspectives. Ghanaian-born kind of

5:59

can Canadian race, now you live in

6:01

the US, how do you see just the

6:03

different attitudes toward these issues? Yeah,

6:06

it's honestly a bit complex because as I

6:08

mentioned, suicide rate is higher in Ghana than

6:10

it is in Canada. But

6:13

a lot of that, I think,

6:15

is coming from the honor

6:19

shame culture in Ghana, where it

6:21

doesn't get talked about. So

6:24

because it doesn't get talked about, it's not

6:26

being addressed. But that's more on the,

6:28

if I could say

6:30

that, on the individual basis, where

6:32

people are not seeking help for

6:34

a lot of their issues. And

6:37

Ghana, no one really talks about the

6:39

issue of depression, the issue of anxiety

6:42

or even oftentimes because of

6:44

how difficult it is to

6:48

come out of poverty in Ghana,

6:50

oftentimes students will have very high suicide

6:52

rates because if they don't do well

6:55

on their courses, they failed their family

6:57

in their minds and they will

7:01

think the only option is suicide. But

7:04

on a social level, on

7:06

a cultural level, Ghana is an

7:08

extremely Christian nation, so

7:10

to speak, right? The politicians, I mean, I

7:13

don't know if we should get into this

7:15

topic, but just early this year, Ghana released,

7:18

had one of the strongest and

7:21

so-called anti-LGBT bills

7:23

in the world. And

7:26

on all sides, whether it is

7:28

the more lefts or conservative parties,

7:31

they will agree that this because

7:33

of our values as

7:35

a, quote unquote, Christian nation,

7:37

Christian culture, we

7:40

reject, you know, this

7:42

version of sexuality. So this is a

7:44

major, major issue. So because of that,

7:46

sorry, go ahead. No, since

7:48

you brought that up, I'm going

7:50

to, we'll insert a little parenthetical

7:53

because we're told here that Christian

7:56

imposition of Christian ideas into

7:59

law. is

8:02

white Christian nationalism, which is of course a

8:04

form of white supremacy. And

8:07

that doesn't seem like white supremacy

8:09

would be taking the lead

8:11

in Ghana. So how do you reconcile with

8:13

that? Yeah, well,

8:15

you see, I've

8:17

been reading, I'm forgetting the name now. It's been some time

8:19

since I put it down because it was too much. It

8:21

was giving me a headache. But there's a book I've been

8:23

reading from this white woke

8:26

LGBT activist, and

8:29

basically making the argument that, you

8:31

know, Christianities was forced

8:33

Africa into being so called the

8:35

most homophobic or transphobic continent

8:37

in the world. I'm like, uh, as an

8:39

African, I can tell you that that's, I

8:41

mean, for example, the Matt Walsh, probably

8:44

seen Am I? Yes. What is a

8:46

woman? Yeah, it's very much, it just

8:48

does not culturally being

8:51

a man and being a woman is

8:53

extremely important. The role of family, I

8:55

mean, when you have a nation that

8:57

is struggling with poverty, sorry, Ghana,

9:00

like, for example, when you have so much poverty,

9:03

being a traditional man, traditional woman,

9:05

traditional family is extremely important. You

9:07

heavily rely on that. And obviously,

9:09

it's not white supremacist. It's a

9:12

biblical. And frankly, Ghanaians

9:14

are very, very despite,

9:16

you know, for example, the issue of

9:18

white supremacy, you go slavery had a

9:21

major impact on Ghana, Ghana was one

9:23

of the nations that was most impacted

9:25

by slavery. And yet, because of

9:28

because Ghanaian see the consequences

9:31

of paganism, or frankly,

9:33

Islam in other African

9:36

nations, we are grateful for

9:38

God's sovereignty and providence that

9:41

we despite the prosperity gospel, wrecking

9:43

havoc in the nation, we're grateful

9:45

that that we have

9:48

some of the the benefits Of

9:50

the Christian culture in the country. So Because

9:52

of that, we're not doing as poorly. I

9:54

don't mean this economically, but just socially, culturally.

9:56

As other nations, we've not had a lot

9:58

of civil war. Where's the way

10:01

that other near misses? I've because

10:03

we've been unified for the last

10:05

hundred fifty years. Or Two hundred

10:07

years. as you know by christianity.

10:09

So. I'm an unknown

10:11

gonna get off topic but I think

10:13

is an important thing to talk about

10:15

because it does show or a meat

10:17

to test the question. Now one of

10:19

the the big difference between these two

10:22

nate between Netherlands in Canada or oh

10:24

god I or or other nations is

10:26

because there is he ate a christian

10:28

i'm mindset amongst them that and he

10:30

don't and your life because your life

10:32

comes from.com at a very early as

10:34

if Barack Obama for example wasn't done.

10:36

I know nine and I think one

10:38

of the things he talked about. I

10:41

think it was him who said you

10:43

can't go anywhere in gonna without seen

10:45

scripture. It's everywhere. Are you have the

10:47

you tube? you good with you? Be

10:49

a call for a taxi And it

10:51

because Divine Transportation's or something like that

10:54

spikes there's There's always always some kind

10:56

of reference to scripture because of the.

10:58

Present. Quarter we have. It. In

11:00

In I mean as the reason I think is important

11:03

to ensure in this conversation will get back to the

11:05

main topic. But and. This is

11:07

helpful in our broader conversation in

11:09

America because we are told now

11:12

that the only eats that the

11:14

idea that we want to. Think

11:17

about public policy through the lens

11:19

of and Christian truth is released.

11:21

A room with by white people

11:23

to maintain power vitamin and that

11:25

constantly. And yeah I think that

11:27

only made by people who have

11:29

no understanding of how the world

11:31

actually operates and they probably haven't

11:33

that a fan outside the country.

11:35

And because Christianity or mean believe

11:37

it or not is not a

11:40

primarily white people religion I mean

11:42

of of the people in the

11:44

world's most of us are white

11:46

and most of the. Church is not

11:48

quite so the idea that the only people

11:50

like who believe these things and think that

11:52

this is gonna bless our community. So if

11:54

we if we embrace god's design for he

11:57

bad deeds are you know job desperate white

11:59

American christians. Just desperate to hold on

12:01

to their power. I just doesn't mean

12:03

he doesn't resonate if unless you've only

12:05

like with your entire life in your

12:08

summer. Exactly. And

12:10

you know obviously within critical race theory

12:12

d I would have a to me

12:14

want to use that kind of or

12:16

was you know what's thick gyms is

12:18

legal right because it race marxism. It's

12:20

just that they always want to attribute

12:23

things they don't like to power by

12:25

the want to say it's these people

12:27

were they really want his power of

12:29

and often times because they see white

12:31

people as a very top of oppressors

12:33

are particularly white christians at the very

12:35

top of the oppressor. They they did

12:37

that the use that argument to be.

12:39

The other tactic to go against real

12:42

real christian? It it's there's a book

12:44

that I always really try to

12:46

reference to people polled. I'm white Christian

12:48

privileged. That really, I'm. Exposes

12:51

their agenda Whether it's really built about white

12:53

privilege and everything else, but really the use

12:55

of white privilege, it's as me to start

12:57

the ball. Young boots, you know who's really

12:59

the most. Oppressive. Bomb

13:01

was privileged people in society. It's it

13:03

is the Christians By seems that when

13:05

you read the both the don't want

13:07

to save a lot as and clues

13:09

Black crit censor average person's the say.

13:11

Well it's really the white Christians who

13:13

are the very worst and it'll get.

13:16

Speaking of how Africans perceive lot of

13:18

these things, you know. it's interesting that.

13:21

I'm the a lot of will people wanna

13:23

say that it's actually when it comes to

13:25

these your sexuality it's they claim that it

13:27

is. It is white people. Who

13:29

are forcing so called homophobia or Christian

13:32

values on? I'm on Africans but Africa

13:34

that can guarantee you have a my

13:36

thing is right for us Characterize it

13:38

takes rise this way. But we are

13:40

see oftentimes refer to my sexuality as

13:43

a white man's arm. You know issues

13:45

since Bring It In into Africa every

13:47

time. Oh I'm all the women with

13:49

well as the West Point Of foisted

13:51

on us every time Barack Obama arm

13:54

or I'm. Aura Kamala Harris

13:56

will go to ask including gonna

13:58

think lap as year when issue

14:00

came up. The. Media.

14:02

The particular hey, don't don't bring that here. That's

14:04

not our culture, Would I accept it? Don't try

14:06

to push an agenda on Us soil is actually

14:08

quite the reverse. is not what the will people

14:10

are trying to say is really happening. And.

14:13

With a in in that's important. It's important,

14:16

prospective ultimately doesn't. I mean the primary point

14:18

is not are white people putting this on

14:20

non white people or non pete white people

14:22

forcing this? Unlikely that, as christians like, the

14:25

analysis we're supposed to be gone through is:

14:27

is this true? Is this conform with him

14:29

and would got a source is good for

14:31

us rights. And so the still. Be

14:34

other discussion is really distraction and so we

14:36

need to recognize that for what it is

14:39

and ultimately are we care about is. Does

14:42

this conform with God's will for

14:44

our lives? Not what color is

14:47

the messenger? That's it. That's an

14:49

unhelpful conversation ultimately. but recognizing that

14:51

duplicity does help us. I'm kind

14:53

of cut through at what is

14:55

an attempt to manipulate rather than

14:57

what is actually an attempt to

14:59

like bring a quality to the

15:02

world. But in in it's broader

15:04

conversation, I'm gonna try to steer

15:06

us back if I can make

15:08

like s connection here, because ultimately,

15:10

this is just all about. On

15:13

to what degree does add did

15:15

this a society and of people

15:17

submit themselves to like God's will

15:19

for for humanity. In this conversation

15:21

about. Assisted Suicide.

15:24

In one of the point that you make

15:27

in your article as it is you have

15:29

a at primarily Canadian context. My understanding is

15:31

that where you spend most of your job

15:33

of your life is in Canada. And

15:36

you you highlight the fact that

15:38

the Justin Trudeau courses as Prime

15:40

Minister made enough for walks of

15:42

of Canada has but he heavily

15:44

on yeah he he has. Been

15:47

a proponent of assisted suicide as. Well,

15:51

simultaneously running very

15:53

serious anti suicide

15:55

campaigns air those.

15:58

at first blush right same contradictory. How

16:01

does a guy like Justin

16:03

Trudeau reconcile those things in

16:05

his worldview? I'll

16:08

tell you he's increasingly having difficulty because

16:11

now, because the inherent

16:14

contradictions is becoming more and more apparent

16:16

to a lot of Canadian voters, because

16:18

it's becoming slightly more controversial because of

16:21

– I mentioned

16:23

some of the stories in the article of

16:25

an autistic woman whose

16:28

father was pleading with the

16:31

courts or with a judge, please,

16:33

please, this is not right. This is not

16:35

in her right mind. I do not want

16:37

you to murder my child and

16:40

yet to win ahead with it anyways because

16:42

it's becoming slightly more – it's

16:44

slightly intentionally because unfortunately it's not part of

16:47

the mainstream – it's not part of the

16:49

mainstream consciousness in Canada unfortunately, but there are

16:51

a number of people who are becoming more

16:53

and more concerned about this. But

16:56

nevertheless, he's not starting to talk less and

16:58

less about suicide as a whole because

17:00

he's starting to see some of the

17:02

problems. Nevertheless, the reason why I think

17:06

he will address both

17:08

issues is because he's

17:11

talked before about knowing people who have

17:14

been suicidal in the

17:16

past or people who had

17:19

serious mental

17:21

health issues and I think he's talked about his

17:23

mom, for example, I believe who's had mental

17:27

health issues. And because

17:29

of that, I think

17:31

he inherently cares

17:35

about – I think he does care about

17:37

the issue. Now, is it from – does

17:40

he have the biblical events? Definitely not, but

17:42

I think he does have an interest in

17:44

that. But because of his

17:46

unbiblical views, he then thinks

17:48

the solution to that when it's become

17:50

in his mind severe when it comes

17:52

to older people especially. I

17:55

think in part of that because of his own personal Experiences

17:58

with that, perhaps with his mother or other people. The

18:00

books he then think maybe then

18:02

the best way to end are

18:04

suffering is for us than to

18:06

have the suicide rates. So is

18:09

a strange strange thinking where to

18:11

both young people that maybe you

18:13

know or. Up

18:15

in mixing stream but maybe is just

18:17

the pressures of being young and they

18:19

can. Maybe you can help them to

18:21

come up with older people once people

18:23

have disabilities than than little have hoped

18:25

and only the only best option for

18:27

them then is to ago to a

18:29

doctor. And and have the very same thing

18:31

it's been. A is is basically A because

18:34

it an odd because he was Basically it's

18:36

obviously you are committing suicide except you do

18:38

so with the help of people who were

18:40

supposed to be protecting protecting your health. And.

18:44

Now this momentum that

18:46

seems to be growing

18:48

around assisted suicide I

18:50

would argue is actually

18:53

a bit logical. Based.

18:56

On. Secular. Assumptions

18:58

about. Our. Life In In

19:00

In if you start from the place.

19:03

Of assuming that. Are. Life

19:05

is without any ultimate purpose. That.

19:08

We weren't created by someone on

19:10

purpose for purposes. Therefore,

19:14

The best we can hope for and life

19:16

is happiness and our feelings tell us what

19:18

makes us happy. And

19:21

if the purpose of our life is to be happy.

19:24

And we are not. Experiencing.

19:26

Happiness. Therefore, the purpose of our life is

19:29

not being fulfilled. That

19:31

we have tried every avenue we

19:33

know how to be happy. We

19:35

have not arrived at happiness. Is

19:38

that's all our existence. Is.

19:42

From our worldview visited actually

19:44

technological to decide at some

19:46

points you know, I'm.

19:49

I'm I'm outta here because I don't believe

19:51

that there is anything after this I'm just

19:53

going to check hours of because all I'm

19:55

saying it's right now is pain in the

19:58

only thing I don't see. The only way

20:00

I know how to deal with the pain

20:02

with the painter emotional pain is just A

20:04

and my life in at least I'll be

20:06

known. At that point I will cease to

20:09

exist and as we have secularized just as

20:11

a culture as the West. Isn't.

20:14

I mean it is. It's terrible is

20:16

that isn't even somebody like Justin Trudeau

20:18

recognizes because I think it's a law

20:21

that certain on his heart that we

20:23

shouldn't like celebrate suicides with. Isn't that

20:25

a logical conclusion based on the foundation

20:27

for life that they have set up?

20:30

Everything else, including the sexual revolution to

20:32

the sexual revolution is do whatever makes

20:34

you happy, right? in The thing that's

20:36

gonna make me happy or happiest It

20:39

least in least Kane is killing myself.

20:41

So who are you to just trying.

20:44

Yeah, yeah, I yum. You know.

20:47

On. The notable goes on of

20:49

the topic both. It was extremely

20:52

important during especially in Canada because

20:54

of this whole a radical on

20:56

policies on on coded oh one

20:58

of the same those really interesting.

21:01

It was true across every other

21:03

western nations. the only people. Who.

21:06

Did not have a

21:08

severe i'm. A

21:10

as a severe crisis I

21:12

suppose are in mental health

21:14

issues. Were Christians I'm those

21:17

true in Canada. And

21:19

that. Swiss. A lot to

21:21

this is that the people who

21:23

understand that secularism is is is

21:25

that you know that was want

21:27

to stand that there is a

21:29

god. He is created us to

21:31

worship him to love him and

21:34

there is life after desks. You

21:36

see these things differently. It's a

21:38

monstrous. It didn't snow see this

21:40

as well because you know. I.

21:43

Was the I never ever was. At

21:45

a point where I was. Truly

21:47

thinking about and do my life but

21:49

when I was young I would have

21:51

moment where my man. Maybe

21:54

you be better if I wasn't here. And

21:57

I can tell you. One. of

21:59

the reasons why even when

22:01

I was an unbeliever, I

22:04

said, there's no way I can do this because it's

22:06

like there's a God and I would have to answer

22:08

to him. And

22:10

that alone made me

22:13

just think about, okay, how

22:16

will I wrestle with this? And

22:19

ultimately it actually led me to becoming a

22:21

Christian because I realized

22:24

that I didn't wanna die and I didn't wanna

22:26

die because I feared God's wrath. And

22:29

the reality is Christian theology,

22:32

as you said, has been

22:34

the very basis as to

22:36

why we are against, whether we want to admit

22:38

it or not, just because it's a loss we're

22:40

doing in our hearts, that's why we are against

22:42

murder, all kinds of murder. When God

22:44

said thou shall not murder, it

22:47

was including suicide, right? Just because you're not

22:49

killing somebody else, I mean, you're not killing

22:51

a person, you are

22:53

killing. We don't own, the same way that

22:56

we do not have authority over our

22:59

neighbor's life to end their life, we

23:01

don't have authority over our own life.

23:03

It is God who gave us life,

23:05

right? It is God who gives us

23:07

a breath. So

23:10

we do not have the power to

23:12

take that breath away. So that has

23:14

a massive, massive impact. You mentioned a

23:17

sexual revolution and also especially the issue

23:19

of abortion. It's not a coincidence that

23:21

the nation with the most radical laws

23:24

or no laws at all on abortion,

23:26

Canada is the only nation with

23:28

zero laws on abortion. It's

23:30

not a coincidence that this is a

23:32

nation that is rapidly becoming the most

23:34

radical. Netherlands is right now the worst,

23:36

right? But even Netherlands, they also have

23:38

radical laws on abortion too. And when

23:40

they say it is permissible

23:43

to have a suicide

23:46

for babies up to a year old, you

23:48

mentioned I have my son who

23:50

is just five months old. And

23:52

I cannot fathom, fathom

23:55

any issues that he would have that

23:58

would make me say, I should kill you. my

24:00

son. It's horrific, horrific,

24:03

right? You know, maybe,

24:07

okay, I'm saying a lot of things that maybe

24:09

I shouldn't say but I'll say this. I got

24:11

myself in trouble a few

24:13

weeks ago on social media. I

24:15

was sleep training my son

24:18

and I used the wrong word. I was very

24:20

tired. I was sleeping. I used the word discipline

24:22

to describe sleep training because in my mind, sleep

24:25

training, it's training, discipline. I thought it all from

24:27

the same, whatever, horrible. And

24:30

the number of people who assumed that

24:32

meant I was beating up my son, it was

24:34

crazy. It went viral. It had 20,000, a tweet

24:36

of 20,000 likes, people saying call CPS and I

24:42

was crazy. It became a massive

24:45

problem. I mentioned that

24:47

because while people had nefarious

24:50

reasons and everything too but for

24:53

some people, I think they were genuinely

24:55

concerned for my son. But

24:58

this Netherlands law, which

25:00

is not saying hurt

25:03

the child but is saying kill

25:05

the child, the same

25:07

people would say this

25:09

is just because you are

25:11

protecting and they're twisted,

25:15

frankly, satanic thinking, the debased mind,

25:17

they're saying this is actually helping

25:19

the child. And

25:22

I would say the reason

25:24

they think it's helpful, the reason

25:27

they can convert something from

25:30

a moral evil and rationalize

25:32

it into a moral good is

25:35

because they see pain and

25:37

discomfort as the greatest evil

25:40

because it's interfering with happiness. And

25:43

so they can take that. And

25:45

I think that is the justification

25:48

for assisted suicide, which is pain

25:50

is to be avoided at all

25:52

costs. And if

25:54

there is not a medical

25:57

way to treat it or if we cannot

25:59

change the circumstances that will allow us

26:01

to avoid the pain, then

26:04

this is our only option. Where

26:06

the Christian worldview allows us to

26:08

think about pain and suffering in a different way.

26:12

Where comfort is not the greatest

26:14

good. Because we have a

26:16

promise of eternity and our

26:18

circumstances have been turned

26:21

over to the one who

26:23

super intends all things. And so

26:25

we don't have to take the position that it's easy, and

26:27

we don't have to take the position that it's comfortable, and

26:29

we don't have to take the position that we enjoy it.

26:33

But we believe in a God who can

26:35

work through those things. Which

26:37

is why, and you gave us the

26:39

example of COVID, but there are things

26:41

much worse than COVID lockdowns that people

26:43

experience in life. Where

26:45

you can have, as Paul describes, the

26:48

peace that passes all understanding. So

26:50

that I can have joy

26:52

is better than happiness in the midst

26:54

of circumstances that make

26:57

happiness enjoy seem irrational. But we have

26:59

a context for them that lets us

27:01

know these things

27:03

are temporary. Yeah, Amen. I'm

27:06

so glad you mentioned this because you asked

27:08

earlier what is the difference between

27:13

– why is it that

27:15

Ghana, for example, or Africa has a

27:17

different mindset on this than the West?

27:20

Right? And a lot of it comes down

27:22

to a big part of it. It's obviously the Christian culture in

27:24

at least some parts of Africa like Ghana. But

27:29

Dave Chappelle, this has a joke that

27:32

I think does speak to this. I've always

27:34

found it very interesting. He

27:37

talks about – and it's a – it's

27:40

Dave Chappelle joke, right? But maybe I'll mention

27:42

a celebrity. But he mentioned a celebrity who

27:44

ended up sadly,

27:46

very sadly committing

27:49

suicide. And then

27:51

he talks about having a friend

27:53

who used

27:55

to have – he was the smartest person in school.

27:58

He was doing very well. he went

28:01

and he got into I think Harvard or some Ivy League

28:03

school and he ended up dating a girl and

28:05

then they show up message that one time I think

28:07

he's at Target or something like that and he sees

28:09

this person that the whole community you know in the

28:11

you know in the hood and the in the ghetto

28:13

that they thought he would be the one to make

28:15

it because he was in Harvard and everything and then

28:17

he says that this person now is working at you

28:19

know Target and then he made

28:21

the point that you know this person never

28:23

thought about killing himself and he's

28:26

making the contrast between someone who grew up

28:28

in harsh conditions which is

28:30

a celebrity who had everything

28:33

but ended up ending their life. His

28:35

point and this is what I'm trying to say with

28:37

Africa versus the West. In

28:40

Africa the reason why the government is never

28:42

going by the grace of God never going

28:44

to propose a bill for

28:47

just a suicide is because as

28:49

you said we understand very

28:51

well in Africa pain

28:54

is a part of life that

28:56

comfort is not the

28:58

ultimate goal that suffering is

29:01

the norm right and that

29:03

we all have to persevere over this. African

29:06

culture right is even though

29:08

as I said you have individuals because it

29:10

doesn't get talked about as much individuals who

29:12

do commit suicide

29:16

the you know in Ghana

29:18

the culture is very heavily

29:20

against it to the

29:22

point that it's unthinkable that a government would

29:24

suggest that it's actually okay that doctors should

29:26

end your life because one of

29:28

the things that our culture has taught us is

29:30

that everything that's why even like amongst young people

29:33

today you know there's so much there's a mental

29:35

health issue. I was really I read something about

29:37

I think 91% of Gen

29:39

Z's Gen Z adults have

29:41

said that anxiety and

29:43

depression is a major issue for

29:47

people that like for like their friends.

29:49

91% right it's from the data that

29:53

I was reading it's a lot higher than it

29:55

was for the Millennials and obviously for generations and

29:57

is that if we're teaching people that your life

29:59

is all about happiness, your life

30:01

is all about the

30:06

norm in life as blessed as we are in

30:08

the west in many ways but that's not the

30:10

norm any kind of

30:12

experience that will conflict with

30:15

comfort and happiness you think

30:18

what something is wrong this is not

30:20

right this is not normal yeah when

30:22

you perpetually feel that way because it

30:24

actually is the norm then you

30:26

will think maybe the only option is

30:28

then for you to end your life but

30:30

as you said to one of the saddest

30:32

things about this is that the

30:35

reality is suicide does not end

30:38

the suffering right if

30:40

you're not a believer suicide does not

30:42

end the suffering it only worsens it

30:45

and that is one of the most tragic things

30:47

about this yeah

30:49

that's an amazing contrast to make you

30:51

know we talk about fragility in the

30:53

west and i actually uh just

30:57

went through a book that abigail schreier wrote

30:59

called bad therapy and it's about kind of

31:02

um this is another risk of

31:04

big tangent but the the idea is you

31:06

know that reverting to therapy

31:08

and kind of ruminating on our

31:11

pain actually causes the mental

31:13

health problems but one of the best things

31:15

that you can do when you're experiencing mental

31:18

distress is think about something else just kind

31:20

of move on and we have we

31:23

are so concerned about our pain that we want

31:25

to dwell on our pain and we want to

31:27

meditate on our pain and we want to talk

31:29

about our pain as a way of not ignoring

31:32

our feelings and certainly the motives of that are

31:34

okay but we have created a culture that really

31:36

may be coming and maybe what we're getting at

31:38

here is cultural fragility not just individual fragility where

31:41

we see pain

31:43

as an existential crisis we love

31:45

that term everything is an existential

31:47

crisis but all personal discomfort is an existential

31:49

crisis and you know and you're a new

31:51

dad and i'm a dad and one of

31:53

the most important things

31:55

we have to teach our kids is just

31:57

expect pain And I'm not going to.

32:00

Get you from it. I'm gonna try

32:02

to prepare you for it Right In

32:04

In if you have a culture that

32:06

is not prepared for ownership in that's

32:08

one of the things that compares. You

32:10

know the is really contrast to the

32:12

great greatest generation which was born in

32:14

the depression and then went into See

32:16

of Evil on the sands of Normandy

32:18

right? That's like. That

32:20

hardship. That's real hardship Cia and

32:22

in now the only know We

32:24

freak out when somebody doesn't use

32:26

a preferred pronouns and so there's

32:28

a tremendous contract the sixth generation

32:30

and so that's where the warm

32:32

mentally right? Yeah you have h

32:34

You are equipped in different ways

32:36

to deal with hardship and I

32:38

think one of those contexts would

32:40

see something like suicide as more

32:42

rational than the other when it

32:44

when your expectations are so different

32:46

when experience if if you expect

32:48

pain everyday you not surprised. When Paint

32:51

guns. If you're told that pain exactly

32:53

who deserve better in pain will never

32:55

happen then you know when it does

32:57

occur and that becomes a problem. To

32:59

course none of this this to minimize

33:01

the fact. it's like this hard and

33:03

people have real challenges. We need communities

33:05

and scripture and you know the church

33:08

in friends and other things to support

33:10

us that stuff. So it's not that

33:12

and we need to ignore these things.

33:14

but understanding the are. The

33:17

the the world view, assumptions

33:19

and a judgments and the

33:21

value system is that makes

33:23

do something like a suicide

33:26

decision. More pure.

33:28

right? Exactly exactly So if

33:31

you know our our quarter today's

33:33

you know through Will Cardiology could

33:35

agree spirits. We took a lot

33:37

about privilege. He talked a lot

33:39

of bow on a white privilege,

33:41

male privilege for simple privilege. all

33:43

these different things. But the reality

33:45

is there is a Western privilege

33:47

that people do not think about.

33:49

The western privilege of suffering being

33:51

a surprise. You. Know where

33:53

comfort it is is we

33:55

we expect exit a comfortable

33:57

living We are become so.

34:00

Fragile, that an arena and

34:02

I don't want to dismiss

34:04

this, but that. The.

34:07

That the suffering of. Of

34:09

an illness is strange for

34:11

us. said what I you

34:13

know I'm not too. Dumb.

34:16

To go myself highly by any means.

34:18

but I i was almost dying from

34:20

malaria or when I wasn't gonna I'm.

34:23

But. Might not my story when I

34:25

tell people about it. I was skin and

34:27

bones. That would hard to believe now because

34:30

I'm such a big guys That was true

34:32

skin and bones. I settled on a die

34:34

in a hospital arms. I would never see

34:36

my parents again my family again I thought

34:38

was my sedition. I saw people my age

34:41

or the time seventy years old dying. I'm

34:43

I. I I've seen death

34:45

at a very young age. I've seen

34:47

some for for things that's honestly my

34:49

of this kind of a willfully forgotten

34:51

about. When. I mentioned this

34:53

to a lot of people know where Still I

34:55

can't believe some the things that I've seen in

34:58

Africa. Aside: Yeah, well,

35:00

it's every other Tuesday, you know,

35:02

And. That is a privilege

35:04

that a lot of people know was in

35:06

I realized So that's a point where went

35:08

this So the when we are dealing with

35:11

the sting of guess we are we think

35:13

the solution for that is actually to to

35:15

speed in the process of death by actually

35:17

killing yourself instead of thinking of dying Well.

35:20

You. Know and that is something that's weird

35:22

to think about. You know what is it

35:24

means to just a what does it mean

35:27

to pursue theater? What does it mean to

35:29

live life? Well what is it? Me to

35:31

die? Well. Known.

35:34

As another component of this that I want

35:36

to deal with because this worldview discussion I

35:38

think can happen with really good intentions. but

35:40

there is a more serious side of this

35:43

and one of the points that you made

35:45

in your article he specifically referred to. The

35:49

As Canadian Assisted Suicide

35:52

Class where the Canadian

35:54

government. was is

35:57

saying that one of the

35:59

benefits of the assisted

36:01

suicide law is the potential to save

36:03

money on healthcare costs. And

36:07

specifically they said that this

36:09

law could reduce healthcare costs

36:11

by somewhere between 35 and $139 million a year. Now

36:17

the willingness to say that out loud to me

36:20

is a surprise. And I know that

36:22

that's kind of in the back of people's minds. And of course, what's

36:24

the logic? We know that it's something like 90%

36:26

of healthcare costs that somebody

36:29

will experience happen in the last five

36:31

years of their life. So

36:33

being old is difficult

36:37

and there's lots of medical expenses associated

36:39

with that. And so that's just

36:41

a financial practical reality.

36:45

But essentially what

36:47

the Canadian government here is saying is

36:49

that, hey, we can avoid those costs

36:51

if instead of treating you. We

36:54

just kill you or help

36:56

you kill yourself. Does

37:00

that surprise you? No,

37:03

not at all. It

37:05

was very clear. Bill

37:08

Maher of all people I think last week

37:11

or maybe it was this week, I don't quite remember, made

37:14

a point that so-called

37:17

free healthcare in Canada is

37:19

extremely expensive for the government, extremely

37:23

expensive. And

37:25

by the way, it's important to mention that of all –

37:27

I think of the 14 nations that

37:31

have suicide or euthanasia

37:33

laws, almost all of

37:35

them have so-called free healthcare or

37:37

government-run healthcare. That's extremely important to

37:40

think about that what

37:42

I would consider socialist healthcare naturally

37:45

thinks of the greater good in

37:48

their minds anyways. The greater good – not the individual –

37:50

is the greater good. And the

37:52

greater good is, hey, it's

37:54

better for the

37:56

country if These individuals are

37:59

just. Living and will about it

38:01

when it comes the issue of abortion rights.

38:03

I think it was as as a man

38:05

is a bus service or maybe one of

38:07

their neighbors who who both Li said hates

38:09

we've eliminated have down syndrome in all of

38:11

it all up because I'm on to be

38:13

born with with that was because they were

38:16

murdering them right? So that mindset is not

38:18

really new. But

38:20

yeah, in Canada. Be

38:22

it's because of the

38:24

nature of. Help

38:27

Us isn't being run by the government.

38:29

There are so many problems with it

38:31

it's we have incredibly high wait list

38:33

is hard to find a of or

38:35

to find a parcel doctor. I could

38:37

not find one fleet for long time

38:40

so I think when that's the case

38:42

the reality is the government will see

38:44

some individuals as burdens in on the

38:46

winner. See them as individuals to treat

38:48

because it's not private. My when you

38:50

when you are when I'm be have

38:52

a private healthcare systems. While he may

38:55

have his own issues that daughter. Sees

38:57

you militancy this way buses you

38:59

as a commodity right? That because

39:02

if you are I'm you are

39:04

paying their salaries but when you

39:06

are. One. Is warmer The

39:08

government's. Whether. You live or die

39:10

the I you don't really matter to them right

39:13

out of mean that any it just me just

39:15

in terms of your just really a number. but

39:17

if you are no longer. Ah, I'm

39:19

in their minds burdening them with

39:21

the cost and everything. Then they

39:23

can save more money so. There

39:26

are a lot of world's the issues are

39:28

comes with in terms of that but but

39:30

even pass that. As I've mentioned, When.

39:33

We've we've created a society. Where.

39:36

We are we are are seen as

39:38

some image berries are more valuable than

39:40

others Race of example Going Going back.

39:43

From going back to the issue of

39:45

abortion where we say they if you

39:47

have down syndrome. It's.

39:49

Better. If. You're not. You're

39:52

not a lot eyes. Well.

39:55

Dot mindset is it derby? It'll be

39:57

consequences to that's I would take it

39:59

to the. Three to the worst form

40:01

I are in oil is complete form what's

40:03

as well as it's okay to kill some

40:06

pre born babies because I don't think they're

40:08

going to be a valuable member of society.

40:10

to the not really going to help our

40:12

system. the why not do the same thing

40:15

with even one year olds right? will do

40:17

the same with elderly people would validate do

40:19

they have any more The no longer useful

40:21

so. So many

40:23

ways A muscle president said before gonna

40:25

as Canada has the worst pro life

40:28

laws because it has no parole as

40:30

laws in the nation is not surprised

40:32

at all that they would have the

40:34

same don't have laws I would also

40:36

supports I'm I'm I'm Late and Asia

40:38

and assisted suicide. When.

40:41

You reject the premise that are value comes

40:43

from the fact that we are image bears

40:45

of God. We

40:47

become. At

40:49

assets and liabilities on the

40:51

government's financial ledger. The

40:54

and so yeah if a you know

40:56

pre born child or one month old

40:59

child doesn't really have you value the

41:01

government is they don't have a to

41:03

the government and on their luxury I'm

41:05

sure he stays at at least as

41:07

a young person has the potential to

41:10

be an asset you know did to

41:12

fall in the right side ledger at

41:14

a eventually but when once they start

41:16

valuing license financial terms we very dangerous

41:18

territory and that's where the risk that

41:20

the right to die. Which

41:23

is being treated? Which is it least

41:25

theoretically being done in the name of

41:27

compassion Where we're going help somebody reading

41:29

their suffering. But in

41:31

the back of the mind of a bureaucrat,

41:33

it's all about for finances, because he though

41:35

it's cheaper to endure suffering permanently than it

41:37

is to treat your suffering. And

41:40

and soon the right to die becomes the

41:42

duty to die because it's very easy to

41:44

tell that person who is suffering humane. I

41:46

wanna die that just think of you know.

41:49

You're an end your family's pain to enduring.

41:52

Stop causing them all this money and all

41:54

of these data entry soon. It's like all

41:56

we did this for you compassionately, so he

41:58

at least you have the option. Now

42:00

you have the situation like I know exists

42:02

in California where insurance companies that they will

42:05

not pay for your treatments but they will

42:07

pay Or you know the Ninety Nine Ninety

42:09

Nine whatever costs three to get a cocktail

42:11

to end your life Right in in the

42:14

insurance companies are taking the same position because

42:16

from an ax you or your perspective of

42:18

course it makes sense for that recently dead

42:20

rather than you to be fulfilling me health

42:23

insurance policy you have out on them. So

42:25

yes from a public policy perspective we need

42:27

understand and of the incentives that are being

42:29

treated. In just a reality of

42:31

deployed to the Lg, aware of

42:34

what incentives start to. Work

42:36

itself out once we reject the

42:38

premise that your value is not

42:40

because of what you think, interview

42:42

your values, not because of what

42:44

you can do. The value comes

42:47

from who you are by virtue

42:49

of being created in the image

42:51

of God. Once we abandoned that.

42:53

you don't have to necessarily fall

42:55

into genocide, but you know your

42:57

path of their organ are radical

42:59

down syndrome. You know either eradicate

43:01

downturn I'm you to about the down

43:03

syndrome people right? Exactly Not going to

43:05

a radically all the cancer patients, you're

43:07

going to kill all the cash cancer

43:09

patients in In that's in it. We

43:11

quickly followed a very inhumane to in

43:13

into very inhumane territory. Yes,

43:16

And you're speaking of just the for

43:18

consequences of a bunny Christian worldview. One

43:20

of the lonely, you know, Not

43:23

only I'm. By. Rejecting.

43:26

The value of the image

43:28

bear. But it's also by

43:30

neglecting just the reality of

43:32

sin rates. because as you're

43:34

suggesting, So. Often.

43:36

These things are You know who

43:38

the suicide is being encouraged? By

43:41

people that we should be trusting

43:43

to protect our lives and our

43:46

health. But the been so many

43:48

instances oh I'm of people who

43:50

were knock and it is come

43:52

out in Canada and the ones

43:55

as well where people were not.

43:58

At. All thinking about. The

44:00

size of example there was i'm a

44:02

man I think a couple years ago

44:04

who just because of the reality of

44:06

the economy I'm just was about to

44:08

do is lose his home and who's

44:10

everything and of he mentioned that. Oh

44:13

I think it was a he was

44:15

due to the and council and Sarah

44:17

beats you have to go bad therapy

44:19

and. Essentially. I'm he

44:21

just someone the person that he

44:24

was trusting to be helping him

44:26

with his mental health just or

44:28

said hey, Have. You considered

44:30

have you considered this is an option

44:33

for you arm in arm and deaf

44:35

person now i think and day apply

44:37

for they got do a granted permission

44:40

to you know to commit suicide or

44:42

else is a suicide but I think.

44:44

Because. The news went out I think. ah

44:47

hope this is true that he ended up

44:49

kind of was sending of and change in

44:51

his plans but. There. Because we

44:53

neglect that there is since that there

44:56

are people whether it is the government's

44:58

or certain other people in power that

45:00

they will. Now the whole thing itself

45:03

is abusive. right to and a life

45:05

to unjustly and a life of course

45:07

is nicely abusive. Nevertheless, there are people

45:10

out there who will abuse this to

45:12

in we're did with me thinks which

45:14

is why now it's his whole thing

45:17

is supports me but can sense where

45:19

they claim it's about. You know people

45:21

consented to die. While now

45:23

when you have children as young as

45:26

one years old. When. You're

45:28

old. Being. Armed

45:30

Killed. Under. This. I'm

45:33

lie of a ending

45:36

suffering and pain. What

45:38

Is it really doing? These. It's

45:40

these children are not consenting

45:43

to die, right? It's it's

45:45

It's horrific. But. I

45:47

now. Have. To wonder how

45:49

much worse can it gets? I mean, we've seen

45:51

it already right where in Canada I'm. now

45:54

just for anything mental month i mean

45:56

trudeau after some pushback as as now

45:59

kind of postponed this, but if you

46:01

have anxiety, just anxiety alone.

46:04

You and now the government here is

46:06

also considering making it available for children

46:09

under 18 years

46:11

old as well too. I say here, but

46:13

I mean in Canada. So Canada naturally is

46:15

trying to follow the same path that the

46:18

Dutch have introduced.

46:20

And it's just really, really sad in

46:22

that a nation like Canada, our model

46:25

is based on some 73.

46:28

It says from C to C, but it

46:30

means that price will have dominion from C

46:32

to C. That was the history that

46:35

Canada, that has been the

46:37

model. And then obviously the Dutch have

46:39

also their rich history and their information.

46:41

America, which is no longer,

46:43

it's not federal here, but you have

46:45

some states that have embraced

46:47

these similar laws as well. And

46:49

it's just really sad to see

46:51

again the consequences of rejecting Christian

46:53

theology, rejecting God. And by rejecting

46:55

God, we are rejecting those who

46:57

are made in this image. That's

47:01

really well said. At the risk of

47:05

stepping all over a really great conclusion, I'm going

47:07

to ask you as our resident

47:10

Canadian today, is Justin Trudeau

47:12

Fidel Castro son? You

47:19

could have asked me to predict what you were going

47:21

to say. And I could have given you a thousand

47:23

answers and that would not have been one of the

47:25

things that would not have been going to

47:28

ask me. No,

47:32

I find that that theory

47:34

incredibly funny to be honest with you.

47:36

I find it hilarious for many, many

47:38

reasons, but I do not believe that

47:41

he's a Christian.

47:43

But hey, will he ever admit to it?

47:45

Of course not. Well,

47:48

for those who want to know more, consult the

47:50

Google. But Samuel will say, thank

47:53

you so much for your time

47:55

and people can find you at

47:57

slow to write.com and you do.

48:00

Great thinking and I mean, I love the

48:02

name of that. Quick

48:04

to hear, slow to speak and sometimes

48:06

slow to write as well, right? We do

48:08

try to form slow opinions around here because

48:11

informed opinions are better than fast opinions.

48:13

And listening a lot before we speak

48:15

is important and you do that well.

48:18

And grateful for your work and your thinking

48:20

and your ministry and your time today. Thanks

48:23

so much. Thank you so

48:25

much. And friends, thank

48:27

you for joining us. Hope you've enjoyed the conversation as

48:29

well. If you have, share it with a friend because

48:31

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love to hear from you. If you

48:47

have any questions, comments, thoughts, feedback or

48:49

suggestions for future shows, love

48:51

to hear from you. Email me

48:53

at outstandingatwashingtonstand.com. I've enjoyed my time

48:56

being there with you very much. My

48:58

name is Joseph Bachel and this has been

49:00

Outstanding. Outstanding is a production

49:02

of The Washington Stand where you can find

49:04

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