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Date now on, Bumble. Parents.

0:29

Will tell me and I'm sure most of

0:31

you have experienced this or heard this. The

0:33

only thing that gets my kid to do

0:35

what he's supposed to do is if I

0:37

threatened to take his phone away. Now that's

0:40

indicative of something. That means that the phone

0:42

has become the most important thing in his

0:44

life and that's where he or she will

0:46

do what they need to do in order

0:49

to keep or get their phone back. So

0:51

don't use the phone in that way. And

0:53

if you are aware of that, that means

0:55

the phone has already have taken over your

0:57

kid's life and. That's their priority. Welcome

0:59

to season Six up Lester Klux with

1:02

Lin Lions Were we talk about of

1:04

families, anxiety and all the big feelings

1:06

to we tackle the serious stuff without

1:08

being too serious and I'm your co

1:10

host Robin I'm Lynn sister in law

1:12

and I'm here to ask your questions

1:14

And I'm Lynn Lines and an Exile.

1:16

the expert speaker bomb and author and

1:19

I've been a therapist for over thirty

1:21

years. Parenting can be a fluster, clocks

1:23

and I'm here to help you find

1:25

your way. I'll give you a concrete

1:27

steps to take and. The words to. Say.

1:35

Hi. Rabid! Hi Lynn, how are you

1:37

Today I'm doing well. My wheels

1:39

are spinning. I. Read the article

1:41

that you sent me and I'm so glad

1:43

we're talking about it today! Yes, If.

1:45

The article was written by Jonathan

1:48

Haidt which is spelled H A

1:50

I D T. He had an

1:52

article in the Atlantic about kids

1:55

and cell phones and sort of

1:57

the cost of a smartphone child.

2:00

Right and what we can do about it. We're

2:02

going to put a link to the

2:04

article. I really recommend that everybody we

2:06

the article because it brought up very

2:08

valid concerns and points that I've been

2:10

talking about that a lot of people

2:12

have been talking about and I just

2:14

think we haven't talked about phones and

2:17

tracking and cell phones and that kind

2:19

of stuff for a while, so I

2:21

think it's time to talk about it

2:23

again. I think you're underselling just how

2:25

damn important this article is that people

2:27

really need to read that. You

2:29

really, really need to read this. like read

2:32

this article. So that's just like my little

2:34

push for it. And I think that it's

2:36

true that it's not that anything in there

2:38

is. Shocking. To people

2:40

who are. thinking. About these things

2:43

but it's a very well presented

2:45

at argument and I think it

2:47

packages this information and a really

2:49

powerful way that also really digs

2:51

into technology, the different stages of

2:53

development in all of those things

2:55

so that a at the end

2:57

is sort of left like okay,

2:59

what are we gonna do right

3:01

And here's the interesting thing. When.

3:04

I say to parents and I did

3:06

a little Instagram we alumnus a few

3:09

weeks ago when they see like which

3:11

we do what we do and I

3:13

say takes his own that the bedroom

3:15

limit the amount of time kids can

3:17

spend on iphone. Don't give your child

3:19

a phone too early And when you

3:21

do pay attention to some people like

3:23

oh Vasily half ago I mean it's

3:25

just like I'm like yeah that would

3:27

you have to do he had no

3:29

one wants to hear it. There's such

3:31

resistance. So. I think we

3:34

need to just drop our resistance. And.

3:36

Begin to relieve. Look at

3:38

what these smart at earlier

3:40

and earlier ages, What they

3:42

are doing to kids development,

3:45

What they're doing to their

3:47

social skills, what they're doing

3:49

to their sleep. we

3:51

just have to look at a guy like

3:53

eyes wide open we didn't know that this

3:55

is gonna happen we didn't understand this we

3:58

didn't get it now we do so we

4:00

have to make some changes. I mentioned this

4:02

last night at dinner to my kids that

4:04

you told me about this article that I

4:06

needed to read and we were going to

4:08

do an episode. Did they roll their eyes?

4:10

No, quite the opposite. Oh, they're like, oh

4:12

no, it's so true. No one can read

4:14

anymore at school. Like that's what my middle

4:16

schooler said. He said, nobody knows how to

4:19

read anymore. It's weird. And then

4:21

my daughter piped in and said, yeah, the

4:23

rates of literacy are really, really bad now.

4:26

And they said, like, you can see there

4:28

are certain kids who have not academically developed

4:30

in the way just because they haven't had

4:32

the same opportunities too. So my kids were

4:35

like, oh no, no, we know it's a

4:37

problem. And they know that they have a

4:39

problem too. Yeah. And

4:41

that's what the article did such a good job of saying is

4:43

like, look, we all get caught up in this. I

4:46

mean, read the article, but one of the

4:49

things that really jumped out at me was

4:51

that study that they did, they asked a

4:53

thousand college students, how much would you have

4:55

to be paid to

4:57

get rid of TikTok or Instagram, you

4:59

know, whatever social media app you use

5:01

all the time. So I asked

5:03

my husband that I said, so they did this study and they

5:05

asked these college students, how much would we have to pay you

5:07

to delete this from your phone? My

5:09

husband said, Oh, I don't know, $10,000. Do

5:12

you know what the answer was? Wait,

5:15

what? That

5:19

was the average. They want someone

5:21

to get rid of this. So

5:23

that was just individually. And then

5:25

the question was, what if we

5:27

could get your whole cohort to

5:29

get rid of these apps? How much would

5:31

we have to pay you? And they said $0. And

5:36

in fact, we would pay you to

5:38

make that happen. Please

5:40

release us from this prison.

5:44

The thing about it, just like you found with

5:46

your kids at the dining room table, that kids

5:48

know that they're held hostage by this.

5:50

They know the distress. They are copping

5:52

to the distress that it's causing them. It's

5:55

just that we know that when things

5:57

are so compelling, these

5:59

algorithms. are really addictive, they pull

6:01

us in, they do the same thing to

6:03

adults. And so we have to step in

6:06

and say, okay, this is not something

6:08

that we can continue to do in

6:11

the same way that we've done it

6:13

for the last 10 years, because the

6:15

data is in everybody. This is not

6:17

what is helpful for kids, particularly younger

6:19

kids. And so let's just say that

6:21

we're talking about kids before high

6:24

school, right? Let's just say that

6:26

we're talking about kids from kindergarten through

6:28

eighth grade. This is a

6:31

time when more and more kids

6:33

are using screens, cute little kids

6:35

are on iPads. I've said this

6:37

before, when they put the frickin

6:39

DVD players in front of

6:41

every seat in the minivan, I

6:44

was like, we're screwed. Because it

6:46

got in the way of kids

6:48

interacting with each other, kids interacting

6:50

with their family members, particularly

6:53

for younger kids, we've got to

6:55

stop the madness. I just

6:58

want to give a little bit of a

7:00

breakdown a little bit about this article. It

7:03

is important that I think every parent

7:05

read this. And there's

7:07

some really fascinating data about

7:09

the timing of where along

7:12

the line of technological development

7:14

and also when certain households

7:16

had access to the technology

7:19

and what impact it had.

7:21

And I think that one of the things

7:23

that's so important to think about, because all

7:25

of our listeners who are even parents, very

7:28

clearly remember when they got their

7:30

first smartphone, and they suddenly had

7:32

access to the internet with them

7:34

and what that did and how

7:36

exciting that was. So adults also

7:39

had this too. But they talked

7:41

about the earlier days of the

7:43

internet, if it was on a

7:45

family computer, a family, you know,

7:47

laptop or dial up computer, and

7:49

we could hear that AOL sound.

7:52

It didn't have the same kind of impact,

7:54

a negative impact that it did when I

7:56

think it talked about from like 2010. On

8:00

word, then everyone was holding the internet

8:02

and their hands. Because there was a

8:04

point when all of a sudden, seventy

8:06

percent of all high school students held

8:08

smartphones in their hands, right? And it

8:10

was Why site? Because we forget that

8:12

you used to have to use your

8:14

computer attached to something in the house.

8:17

It was when you could take it with

8:19

you and have it with you all the

8:21

time. That seems really. Shifted unchanged for

8:23

sure. Plenty. Talk

8:25

about phones as certainty devices,

8:27

which I really like because

8:29

we've often talked about how

8:31

the technology in childhood actually.

8:34

Starts in pregnancy. People.

8:36

Would buy their own electronics like what

8:38

you call them. Were you in the

8:40

fetal heart monitors? Oh yeah yeah, Some

8:42

parents would buy those when they were

8:44

pregnant and then a lot of parents

8:47

most parents still had like a baby

8:49

km that they can watch their kids.

8:51

So you just think of all of

8:53

the technology and the certainty that we're

8:55

constantly seeking me. And that's

8:58

the message is that you know when

9:00

everything about everything when it comes. Your

9:02

kid makes you a good parents and

9:04

so that is a way that we

9:06

get sucked into it. Yes, and that

9:08

carries over because if he were to

9:10

say I love the idea of my

9:12

nine year old, you're having unstructured play

9:14

out in the neighborhood with a bunch

9:16

of kids. but I want him to

9:18

have his phone on him so that

9:20

I can reach him when I need

9:22

to reach him. Yes, so it's a

9:24

conflict, even like the parents still want

9:26

to. Certainty. That. The phone rings. As

9:29

doing a workshop the other day which is

9:31

totally it was such a good workshop that

9:33

was such a good crowd or by got

9:35

it whistle as fun as so I was

9:37

talking about the importance it was with mental

9:39

health providers in school people except on else

9:41

talking about the importance of unstructured play. I.

9:44

Was ending my talk and I was telling

9:46

the story about when I dug up my

9:48

guinea pig. which let me just say the

9:50

reason I dug up my guinea pig. Was.

9:53

Because I was on a cold a

9:55

sack with the ton a little kids

9:57

we were outside. we played by ourselves,

10:00

The time I asked the people in the

10:02

audience how many have you had free unstructured

10:04

play. Away from the eyes of

10:06

adults. And like virtually every adult in the

10:09

will raises their hand. so I said so.

10:11

Let me just tell you, this is what

10:13

happens when kids have unstructured. Unsupervised

10:15

play, Share a when Teddy

10:17

and I got in an argument because

10:19

and we are like seven. Because.

10:22

Jerry had died. my guinea pig.

10:24

And they said that Jerry had

10:27

gone to heaven. And. I said,

10:29

well, maybe Jerry's spirit went to heaven,

10:31

but I think Jerry is still in

10:33

the shoe box and Cheryl entity were

10:35

insisting that Jerry was not in the

10:38

shoe box and I was insisting that

10:40

Jerry was in the shoe box. It

10:42

was only one way for us. To.

10:44

Solve this debate which was to dig

10:46

up Jerry and of course theory was

10:49

in the shoe box. Everybody is still

10:51

one of my like very validating court

10:53

childhood memories because they were telling me

10:55

that Jerry wasn't good be the shoe

10:57

box and Jerry within the shoe box.

10:59

So their cell with their and I

11:01

said everybody in the audience if parents

11:03

have a hot see that's what every

11:05

parent and said well let's dig him

11:07

off right now but we did it

11:10

ourselves. right? And it was just

11:12

us having a conflict, figuring it out,

11:14

coming up with a way to solve

11:16

the problem. And we did it

11:19

on our own at seven years old

11:21

and that would not have been a

11:23

sanctioned adult supervised activity. For sewer. Okay,

11:26

but here's the funny part. Robin at the end of

11:28

the taught this woman came up to. I told that

11:30

she listens to the podcast I told I give her

11:32

a shout outs Hi Krista Christie Cubs have to be

11:34

at the end. It's just goes Hey I just wanna

11:37

let you know. I also dug up my guinea pig.

11:39

It's a saying Yeah, it's it's A. And

11:41

Isaacs never met anybody who dug up the

11:43

guinea pig so he had this wonderful bonding

11:45

moments. i said why did

11:48

you to get your to be paid and

11:50

she said i was just curious about what

11:52

was happening to my guinea pig in it's

11:54

decomposing state fight these are the seeds hit

11:56

some of your i go sellers you're listening

11:59

i like that insane. But what I'm

12:01

telling you is these are the things

12:03

that kids do. This is the curiosity.

12:05

This is the discovery. This is the

12:07

messiness of childhood that when your kid

12:09

is carrying around a certainty device, for

12:12

one they're probably not even outside very much

12:14

everybody, is that it gets

12:16

in the way. If we

12:18

had phones, we could have just googled, does

12:20

a guinea pig's body go to heaven? And

12:23

probably we would have got an answer that

12:25

said, well, their spirit goes to heaven if

12:27

you believe that. But the guinea pig still

12:29

got, and then we would have had the

12:31

answer without actually digging up the guinea pig.

12:33

Yup. When we come back, I

12:35

want to talk to the

12:37

parents out there who are

12:39

really into achievement. Oh, okay.

12:46

We have a hydration agenda in

12:48

our house that every morning we

12:50

each fill up these huge water

12:52

containers. Well, I mean, hydrating is

12:54

great and water is fabulous, but

12:57

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12:59

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13:01

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13:08

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13:10

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13:13

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13:15

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13:17

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13:19

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13:21

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13:24

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13:26

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13:30

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13:32

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13:34

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That's masterclass.com/Fluster. Okay,

17:27

we're back. Here's the thing

17:29

that really stuck out to me when

17:31

I read this article. So, I'm talking

17:34

to the parents right now who have

17:36

ambitious plans for their kids. I've got

17:38

a senior in high school right now.

17:40

So, I'm talking to those parents who

17:42

are willing to fork out money for

17:44

college counselors. I'm talking to those parents

17:46

who are thinking about how to get

17:48

their kids into a competitive reach school.

17:51

Here's the thing. Your children's

17:54

phones are interfering with their

17:56

performance academically And the article

17:58

really points out even... Professionally, I

18:00

think this is actually the

18:02

most shocking impact of all

18:04

of this is that the

18:06

older members of the Jin

18:09

Z generation are the most

18:11

difficult in the workforce as

18:13

well. So. If you guys

18:15

really want your kids to have

18:17

a leg up as a cohort,

18:19

you need to agree to stop

18:21

the cell phone use and have

18:23

more side rails on this. ah

18:25

because your kids will benefit and

18:27

everyone will eventually benefit to so

18:29

be the leaders in your community

18:32

that you are going to curb

18:34

the use of cell phone for

18:36

your kids peer groups and this

18:38

is where it comes up that

18:40

made me think about this to

18:42

I remember the first. Time I

18:44

realize that there were these college internship

18:47

that required all of these zoom interviews

18:49

at a company. I. Was working for at the

18:51

time. It's. Because a lot of

18:53

kids don't know how to speak anymore

18:55

to people, they don't know how to

18:58

answer the so they don't know how

19:00

to have conversations. And if you have

19:02

had opportunities for kids who, they still

19:05

know how to socially interact there in

19:07

the elite group. Now yeah when we

19:09

look at social development I mean they're

19:11

looking at the impact that these songs

19:14

has had on literacy on kids reading.

19:16

And remember I said in a previous

19:18

podcast, one of the things that increases

19:20

executive functioning is reading. For pleasure and

19:23

unstructured play, cell phones get in a

19:25

way of those two things. What?

19:27

We know about this smoke

19:29

so news is that kids

19:32

are only communicating very often

19:34

through words. And. When you're

19:36

in real life, when you're in front

19:38

of somebody, like when you're on a

19:40

zoom interview or any person interview, there

19:43

are all these things that we are

19:45

hard wired to read and learn about.

19:47

We. Need practice reading body

19:50

language? We need practice

19:52

weeding facial expressions. We

19:54

need practice searing tones.

19:56

We need practice dealing

19:58

with foods. When. We.

20:01

Need practice responding in real time

20:03

because one of the things that

20:05

so interesting about conversations that kids

20:07

has if they're only communicating through

20:09

social media were to texting is

20:12

that it's not in real time.

20:14

So say you're in a job

20:16

interview. And. Somebody asks you would

20:18

question you have to answer it

20:20

right then you can't say or

20:22

I will. I'm gonna think about

20:24

this. I'm gonna text back later

20:26

I'm gonna write a text and

20:28

in it added yet. All

20:31

of these skills that come from

20:33

being. In front of

20:35

somebody socially that are thousands

20:37

and thousands of years old.

20:39

These skills lead to connection.

20:42

The lead to friendship is

20:44

a lead to nuance when

20:46

you're dealing with all sorts

20:48

of different people and phones.

20:50

Take all of that away.

20:52

It's a different way of

20:54

communicating that has it's convenience

20:56

for sure. But if it

20:59

completely takes the place of

21:01

all of these skills, a

21:03

socially interacting reading people. Dealing

21:05

with conflict in real time. This

21:07

is what we're looking at as

21:09

a problem. As. Kids move forward

21:12

and like you say, they're in a job

21:14

interview, they're in a college interview. There are

21:16

of a team in some way. We.

21:19

Talk about connection that it's importance

21:21

and. Is. Kind of everything. but

21:23

I still think that adults are very

21:25

confused Often if they don't feel enough

21:28

connection of their own lives, it's very

21:30

hard for them to think about the

21:32

skills and things that are impeding their

21:35

kids connection to. And that's why I'm

21:37

really hoping that there is a movement

21:39

equivalent to the red Shirting. Even

21:42

if a customer place of achievement

21:44

because I feel like that is

21:46

like the one very simple rat

21:48

race approached appearance and everyone really.

21:51

everyone relates to that and everyone

21:53

understands that. If that's how this

21:55

could start and then hopefully it

21:57

gets into something much deeper. Or

22:00

do I sound too cynical? Know I know

22:02

exactly what you mean. And what is interesting

22:04

to me again is that when we say

22:06

over and over again this isn't going to

22:09

help your kid. but parents continue to do

22:11

it because there are so afraid of their

22:13

kid not keeping up, your kid, not sitting

22:15

in their afraid of failure. A very good

22:17

example, he sleep right. We say all the

22:19

time that your child is not going to

22:21

be able to function well. In. Any

22:24

capacity when they're not getting sleep so

22:26

takes a phones out of the bedroom,

22:28

make sure your kid is getting sleep.

22:30

Parents still resist that right there. Still

22:32

say well, we're going to load up

22:34

their schedule so my high school is

22:36

getting to bed at midnight and getting

22:38

up at six in the morning. We

22:40

know that that's going to impact for

22:42

two weeks. Every aspect of the are

22:44

functioning and so part is it is

22:46

that parents really have to sort of

22:48

step back and say okay, so what

22:51

are we doing here I do think

22:53

that the social. Support of other parents

22:55

helps a lot and I think that

22:57

one of the things that's really hard

22:59

for parents and parents say this to

23:01

me all the time. He said say

23:03

your ten year old wants a phone

23:05

and by the way guys, smart watches

23:08

are not difference. So if you're thinking

23:10

that your kid having a smart watch

23:12

as a better seeing them having a

23:14

smartphone, you're kidding yourself. Parents. Had

23:16

ugly but okay so say there's a ten

23:19

year old and a say will Everybody in

23:21

her class has a smartphone. She's the only

23:23

one who doesn't have it and so if

23:25

I don't let her have a smartphone or

23:27

if I don't let her do snapshot, If

23:29

I don't let her do these things than

23:32

she is going to be ostracised. She is

23:34

going to be left out of the group.

23:36

Rates. So if your kid is

23:39

the only kid who can't. Parents.

23:41

Are I'm not gonna throw my

23:43

kid under the bus in that

23:46

way. So it means that parents

23:48

together have to say in our

23:50

class in our friend group in

23:53

our social circle we are going

23:55

to have a consistent message about

23:57

phone use so that all the

24:00

kids are figuring this out. When.

24:03

I look back at my teenage

24:06

years. I know that this happened

24:08

about drinking because he was a

24:10

period of time where it is

24:12

kind of cool well for parents

24:14

to provide alcohol to teenagers and

24:17

this thinking was well at least

24:19

we can keep them safe because

24:21

they're drinking in our home and

24:23

parents had to have that wake

24:25

up call and then kind of

24:27

band together to say we are

24:30

not going to support this idea

24:32

that giving kids alcohol. Is a

24:34

good idea. We're gonna be consistently against

24:36

that and I think that that happened

24:38

did and you know there's even like

24:40

shaming about it. If you're the parent

24:42

is giving the kids alcohol, you become

24:44

the bad parents. and I think that

24:47

with phone use parents need to feel

24:49

like they have the support of the

24:51

or peers. So. That we can

24:53

stop this trend and we can at

24:55

least delay it. A

24:58

ten year old and eight year old.

25:01

A seven year old should not have

25:03

a smartphone. They should not be. I'm

25:05

and I pad all the time. They

25:07

should not have their devices at the

25:10

dinner table and neither should you parents.

25:12

But. It's just become so ubiquitous that it's

25:15

hard for us to pull back from

25:17

that with the social support. Of our

25:19

adult peers. My

25:22

kids talk about flip phones a lot.

25:24

I think flip phones are going to

25:26

make a comeback. Yeah, for sure, because

25:28

I mean the convenience of communicating. There's

25:30

no doubt about it. If.

25:32

We're gonna start somewhere. Let's

25:34

just start delaying this as

25:36

early as possible. And

25:38

not giving our little

25:41

kids screens phones. I,

25:43

pads. The Dvd

25:45

player in the minivan. I like

25:47

the here we go and I

25:49

was right. I was right. And.

25:52

Here's another thing that I did. we have to pay

25:54

attention to. And. Maybe parents. You guys

25:56

can relate to this. I hear some

25:59

so many studio. High school students

26:01

in even middle school students that

26:03

we have to have our phones

26:05

because our teachers are putting assignments

26:07

on our phones, That this is

26:09

the way we communicate with our

26:11

teachers, that we text with our

26:13

teachers. And I think that educators

26:15

really need to take a look

26:17

at cell phone policies in schools

26:19

Again, I think the horses got

26:21

out of the barn and I

26:23

think the horses need to be

26:25

put back, even if a child's

26:27

education. Is. Now primarily happening

26:29

on screens and if kids.

26:31

Are saying well I can't do

26:34

my chemistry homework because my teacher.

26:36

Is texting. Us about the assignments.

26:38

I think that the adults have to

26:40

really take responsibility for that. I think

26:43

there is movement back toward stopping cell

26:45

use in school, stopping smartphone use in

26:47

schools. But really, as the adults, we

26:49

have to recognize the impact of this.

26:52

and we've gotta do our very best

26:54

to turn this ship around. This.

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you've got kids at home. I think

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you're probably feel like you're feeding them

28:09

all the time. It's just trying to

28:11

come up with good recipes, good food

28:13

sings they'll eat well. There. Was

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coping with picky eaters and the mental

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really going to enjoy listening to Stacey

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And isn't that what podcasts are all

29:21

about? So.

29:29

when I'm at a different stage than having

29:31

little kids, but it is still something that

29:33

we talk about all the time. Fortunately, my

29:36

kids are old enough that they are aware

29:38

that it's an issue and they don't say

29:40

we talking about. So. My daughter he

29:42

was has. I wonder what would happen if I

29:44

just got a flip phone the summer? You know,

29:46

see, fantasizes about something like that. With.

29:49

The little kids to what would

29:51

be a good ground rule. To.

29:53

Have for a little bit

29:55

of it because I understand

29:58

to that we're working. Parents:

30:00

We sometimes need kids to be

30:02

engaged with something other than ourselves.

30:05

What? Is a way to do that

30:07

without it creeping into the issues

30:09

that we're seeing. Two things.

30:12

One, he said there is a

30:14

difference between kids watching shows for

30:16

short periods of time, right? I

30:18

mean, we all watch T V.

30:20

we watch a lot at We

30:23

Love. Our Tv right! We loved

30:25

Brady Bunch. We again. There we

30:27

are dating ourselves. again. we lived diligence

30:29

islands so there is a difference. In.

30:31

That's and it's not like I'm saying like

30:34

know screens at all. But as I think

30:36

back at it, the rule in my house

30:38

was that we got one show a week

30:40

During the week I've talked about that mine

30:42

was Quincy medical examiner weird kid for and

30:45

then I'm digging up my guinea pig. I

30:47

just making that connection right now. My gosh,

30:49

I never even thought of that is so

30:51

we can limit get. I think that one

30:53

of the ways to think about this is

30:55

that if you are using the phone as

30:58

both reward and punishment than you need to

31:00

pay attention to their parents will. Tell me

31:02

and I'm sure most of you have experienced

31:04

this or heard this. The only thing that

31:06

gets my kids to do with he supposed

31:08

to do is if I sweat and to

31:11

take his phone away. Now that's indicative of

31:13

something, isn't it? Because that means that the

31:15

phone has become the most important thing in

31:17

his life and that's where is he or

31:19

she will do what they need to do

31:21

in order to keep or get their phone

31:23

back. So don't use the phone in that

31:26

way. And if you are aware of that,

31:28

that means the phone has sort of taken

31:30

over your kid's life and nasty. A priority.

31:34

Slit. Phones: A good very short

31:36

periods of time with screens. you're

31:38

allowed to limit the screen time.

31:40

What? The average kid is on

31:42

a phone using their phone? Nine

31:44

hours a day? Nine hours a

31:46

day. And that doesn't include the

31:48

time that they are on their

31:50

computers doing schoolwork. Leisure.

31:52

Use of a phone nine hours a day so

31:54

we have to recognize that and any other thing

31:57

to think about. And I talk about this a

31:59

lot is. What is your kid not doing

32:01

when they're on a phone? When.

32:03

Your Child Design Iphone What Are

32:06

they not doing? And start to

32:08

pay attention to the things that

32:10

we know are really developmentally healthy,

32:12

particularly for young kids: unstructured play,

32:14

being outside, moving your body in

32:17

real time with other kids, You.

32:19

Can't do both things. You can't

32:21

be by yourself on your phone

32:23

all the time and be outside

32:25

engaged in free play. While.

32:28

The other way to think of it is what

32:30

are the skills that are not being developed by

32:32

their nine hours of phone use. Even.

32:35

If you don't feel like you

32:37

kidding me and age the phone

32:40

use Pro actively give time to

32:42

practice those skills and I think

32:44

family dinner with no devices. Essential

32:47

isn't essential. There is a

32:49

lot of research about the

32:51

benefits of family dinner the

32:53

simple act as sitting down

32:55

together for a meal. Look

32:58

at all these rituals and

33:00

celebrations and communities and gathering.

33:02

We have that expression. Making

33:04

bread it means that we sit

33:06

down and we are safe to

33:08

say is we are eye to

33:10

eye. We. Are feeding ourselves.

33:13

We are sharing our bounty.

33:16

All as a metaphor is that you

33:18

can come up with so so important.

33:20

And Robin I know that you are

33:22

a huge fan of summer camp. I

33:24

was thinking about that to my daughter.

33:26

Went to a summer camp that was

33:29

full summer and no phones were allowed

33:31

and tell your last year. Because.

33:33

Then when you're sixteen, they sell like

33:35

they couldn't ask the sixteen year olds.

33:37

It was phenomenal because she came home

33:40

from those several summers. I.

33:42

Would always pointed out to I said tell me

33:44

about the fun that you had with your friends,

33:46

Tell me what it was like when there weren't

33:48

phones. She was like okay

33:50

I get it. I get why phones are

33:52

not our friends and when she was still

33:55

in middle school that's why would say like

33:57

when we have sleep overs like I want

33:59

to. The phone downstairs and

34:01

where they can be charging. So.

34:04

That they are the again having conversations

34:06

and they're still engaged without. So just

34:08

like the fun that you would have

34:11

at summer camp and one of the

34:13

parents was like know my daughter has

34:15

to have her phone with her at

34:18

all times even while she's sleeping right?

34:20

So there's the moms certain see stepping

34:22

in and I'm saying like that parents

34:24

need to wake up about this kid

34:27

sometimes that are on phones all the

34:29

time they'll get a punishment Like I

34:31

was saying like you lose your phone.

34:34

For two weeks or you lose your phone for

34:36

a week and parents will inevitably come into my

34:38

ass is a be like oh my gosh my

34:40

kid was a different kid when we took away

34:42

the phone and they took away the phone for

34:45

a punishment but I like why don't you take

34:47

the photo way as a healthy choice in your

34:49

family. I. Have

34:51

kids that are so.

34:54

Addicted. To their phones and then I

34:56

go way to summer camp. I.

34:58

Live in New Hampshire, right? This is

35:00

like Camp Central. My son actually right

35:02

now works at a camp any than

35:05

a kid. and sense right now I'm

35:07

sure they're talking about phones and the

35:09

can't my son went to also was

35:11

absolutely no electronics. very strictly cell and

35:13

I've had kids who have gone to

35:15

these camps. And they will say.

35:18

It was the best time

35:20

they had. They can't wait

35:22

to go back. They did

35:24

things that were active that

35:26

were engaged that was social

35:28

and nobody was on their

35:30

phones. They find it

35:32

so incredibly refreshing. And because

35:34

nobody at The Captain Beyond

35:36

phones even the counsellors is

35:38

not the social pressure to

35:40

be on phones, it's just

35:42

an amazing example. Of how

35:44

much our kids are crazy Know

35:47

what? these phones are taking away?

35:49

The sad thing that I realized

35:51

that is that summer camps are

35:53

really expensive to and so those

35:56

opportunities. To really be sown free.

35:58

Are. Again, sort of. Stuck with

36:00

their families who can afford to do

36:03

the summer camp because I think said

36:05

otherwise on the I think people find

36:07

access to screens regardless, especially if the

36:10

screen becomes part of your child care

36:12

providing. Because. You're working two

36:14

jobs. right? That's a part

36:16

of what has happened here.

36:19

is that undeniably. Screens

36:21

are. Convenient.

36:23

The are engaging Z r

36:26

inform it is the are

36:28

helpful. The. Lady who

36:30

tells me where to go on my

36:32

phone is my best friend when I'm

36:35

traveling and so it's hard for us

36:37

to deny the helpfulness. Awesome. It's just

36:39

that. We. Have to look

36:41

particularly with young kids. Particularly Please

36:43

Please please people. Do not put

36:46

a smart watch on your six

36:48

year olds rest. Do not give

36:50

your eight year old your old

36:52

I phone thirteen cause you got

36:54

a new I phone. Remember that

36:57

be a set. Boys are exploring

36:59

porn right now. Is. Nine

37:01

and they are a a

37:03

lot as young men in

37:06

particular that are really opening

37:08

up about the fact that

37:10

they are addicted to porn,

37:12

that they haven't had a

37:15

real relationship with a real

37:17

other human being because their

37:19

sexual needs are getting met

37:21

in porn. It's just it

37:24

interferes with connection and developments.

37:26

In every possible ways that

37:28

we can imagine. It's. Not

37:30

going away. Social media we can

37:32

say has it's perks. I.

37:35

Love watching kitten videos.

37:38

I post on Instagram is a good

37:40

way to get information out there. but

37:42

when I'm really talking about and what

37:44

vibe in is really talking about the

37:46

she's got kids she seeing this is

37:48

how is this getting in the way

37:51

of those really critical developmental skills that

37:53

have been in place for every never

37:55

I never accept not for the last

37:57

twenty years to ten years. Probably because

37:59

when did smartphone? It's like two thousand

38:01

and twelve is when they really. Started

38:04

seeing things just. On. And

38:06

off know I'm really waiting for

38:08

the researchers. I have a theory.

38:11

That. We don't even understand yet the

38:13

impact on the sexual development of these

38:15

kids because they are a porn center

38:17

He said of we aren't really talking

38:19

about it because it's uncomfortable. Some

38:21

of the researches already coming out because

38:23

guess what? teams aren't really doing as

38:25

much anymore. having sex or kiss are

38:27

doing anything. so it's like they don't

38:30

actually get any action. They spend a

38:32

lot of time thinking about their labels.

38:34

Yeah, I didn't said you were gonna

38:36

say labels when you said they'd spent

38:38

a lot time thinking about their labor.

38:40

I thought you couldn't say another word

38:42

of cats are right. And

38:45

on that know I'll get you. Back.

38:49

At that. Thanks

38:51

for listening and if you found it such as

38:53

a full. Give us a slice their

38:55

with you on mobile tank and help other

38:57

people seeing this intonation. And if you'd like

39:00

to dig deeper on any of these topics

39:02

we have specialized playlist on our spot of

39:04

high profile and the link is in the

39:06

show notes topics like teams oppression and O

39:08

C. D Lineman bailout and.

39:14

If you're a parent, I invite you

39:16

to join us at the Mindful Mama

39:19

Podcast. Worth all about becoming a lot

39:21

irritable. More joyful parents with sometimes hilarious

39:23

and always thought provoking experts and friends

39:25

are Mindful Mama. We know that you

39:28

cannot give what you do Not. And

39:31

when you have com and peace within then you can

39:33

give it to your children. On

39:35

Hunter Clerk Fields and he can't wait

39:37

to see they're listening to The Mine

39:39

from moment.