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Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here

0:43

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app Peter Greco on behalf

1:04

of Philip Napier. And a big cheerio

1:06

to Wendy McDougall saying hello and thank you

1:08

so much for joining us. This program

1:10

coming to you from Ghana land. And

1:12

depending on when you're listening to this big,

1:15

very happy International Guide Dog

1:17

Day to you. And also very much

1:19

our thoughts are with those who served

1:22

as we get very close

1:24

to Anzac Day coming

1:26

up very shortly, we speak to Daniel Hewitt

1:28

from Future Labs. He's going

1:30

to tell us about Cadbury's and the

1:32

accessible Easter egg hunt that

1:34

were involved with the technology. What did that

1:37

involve? We'll find out about that. We'll

1:39

catch up with Wonho Kim and

1:41

also Arlene Zheng, who

1:44

have got a passion project. They're wanting

1:46

to make accessible transport

1:49

more accessible, particularly in

1:51

the area of public transport. So we'll find out

1:53

about that. Lots of work going on in that area.

1:55

We've done a number of interviews about that lately, haven't we?

1:57

Hopefully we're all making progress

1:59

together. Then catch up with Janine

2:01

Seydoux, who will tell us about a very interesting

2:04

group that you can be part of, action

2:06

for happiness, a wonderful message, a chance

2:08

for you to get involved. Then Phil Vanderpool

2:10

will join us, co-founder and co-presenter for Focal

2:13

Point. Always lots of things that Phil

2:15

to talk about. We'll speak more

2:17

about the federal budget coming up. And

2:19

Phil also have his thoughts about Anzac

2:21

Day. If you're listening through 1190

2:24

7 a.m. in Adelaide at 8:00 for

2:26

your listening pleasure. Lizzie and Sam

2:28

will be here with Studio One just

2:30

before we hear what's on their programme.

2:32

A reminder about our farewell

2:35

to Sean Wilkinson this coming

2:37

Friday, 11 a.m. at

2:39

the Enfield Cemetery

2:41

in Wattle Room two. So

2:44

if you'd like to go along 11:00 to

2:46

Better Fond farewell to Sean Wilkinson.

2:48

And also on Saturday, the SA branch

2:51

of blind since Australia have

2:53

got their next catch up at the old Lion Hotel.

2:56

I think the two had a meeting there during

2:58

the week. One of those two will be there

3:00

anyway. You can be there with the SA branch

3:02

of Blindside Australia this coming

3:05

Sunday afternoon, 1230 at

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the Old Line Hotel. Sam

3:09

and Lizzy, let's find out what you've got for

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us on studio one tonight.

3:15

Lizzie and Sam here from Studio One.

3:17

Tune in after Focal Point.

3:20

Vision Australia Radio has been busy fundraising

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throughout April. We look at what has replaced

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radiothon. What's it called?

3:25

Lizzie 100 K your way.

3:28

Join us at 8:00.

3:33

Rafael a regular for the program. And we

3:35

hope you are. Uh, we caught up

3:37

a few weeks ago with the janitor, some

3:39

raccoon from Cadbury's. Tell us about a great

3:42

little accessible Easter egg hunt.

3:44

And the company behind that was Future

3:46

Labs. Let's catch up with the founder and director

3:49

for Future Labs, Daniel Hewett. Then

3:51

you're great to catch up. Thanks for your time.

3:52

Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me, Peter. It's, uh,

3:55

it's great to, uh. Yeah. Beyond on the

3:57

show. Yeah.

3:57

For people who might have missed that, this is a great opportunity

4:00

for kids who are blind or low vision to kind of

4:02

do an Easter egg hunt in an accessible way.

4:04

Do you want to tell us a bit about how the association

4:06

with Cadbury's came about, and then the kind of

4:09

technology that was used?

4:10

Yeah. So it's um, you know, it's

4:12

something that could be taken for granted, uh, the

4:14

old Easter egg hunt in, in

4:16

some ways, but, uh, you know, having

4:18

this, uh, this idea where we could, uh, you

4:20

know, create something to allow

4:23

children with vision impairments.

4:25

It's a, you know, have a good old fashioned Easter egg

4:27

hunt. And, um, by using different

4:29

forms of technology, we could, uh, you

4:31

know, aspire to do that. And so we

4:33

were kind of brought across the, across the idea,

4:36

uh, to try and bring, bring this kind

4:38

of this thing to life. And so it was quite,

4:40

uh, you know, it was quite a proud moment in our

4:42

career to, to do something like this.

4:44

We'll talk about, uh, you and what you

4:46

do in a second. But, um, so give

4:48

us a bit of an idea of the kind of technology behind

4:50

it. I mean, like a lot of things, it seems simple, or

4:52

it seems like. Well, why didn't someone think

4:54

of that before? But, uh, how did what

4:57

was kind of used to make it happen?

4:58

Yeah. So we, um, we play

5:01

with technology, we talk about our agency in a second,

5:03

but we play with technology on a on a daily basis

5:05

and, you know, trying to to bring,

5:07

you know, these readily available technologies

5:10

out there to, to life and how this experience

5:12

could work. So just to explain it very quickly,

5:14

we created these, these physical

5:17

Easter eggs that had lots of different kind of sensors

5:19

in them. So sensors such as what you

5:21

might find in your car or your mobile phone,

5:23

like a a lidar sensor which detects,

5:26

uh, how far away something is

5:28

right through to say, an accelerometer

5:30

which detects if something has been touched

5:32

or moved or accelerated, for

5:34

example, that you actually do find in your mobile phone.

5:37

So we thought, why don't we bring these technologies

5:39

into a physical product? And therefore,

5:41

if we place these Easter eggs around, say,

5:43

a garden where, uh, children

5:45

were going to be participating in, we could

5:47

then use all this data that was coming from

5:50

this, this egg, you know, little mini computer almost

5:52

to kind of work out, you know, if people

5:54

were in the proximity and by then using

5:56

kind of, you know, sound and vibration,

5:59

we could then, you know, kind of trigger trigger the

6:01

eggs to, to kind of, you know, make a sound

6:03

and therefore guide the children, um, to

6:05

where the Easter eggs might be found. So it

6:07

was quite a, it was quite a fun, you know, kind of project

6:10

to take on where we could just, you know, get our hands

6:12

on this technology and kind of put it all into

6:14

an Easter egg. And, um, yeah, it was

6:16

truly a rewarding experience because what

6:18

you didn't realize is, you know, um,

6:20

especially the parents who say these children's or

6:22

the brothers and sisters of these children,

6:25

um, I've never participated in an Easter egg hunt

6:27

before. And again, something that you, you know, you may

6:29

take for granted and, and to kind

6:31

of witness it all unfold

6:34

and the, the smiles on everyone's faces

6:36

was just, um, it was just really worthwhile

6:38

to see it come to life. Such a.

6:40

Powerful message. And obviously it

6:42

kind of, in a sense, is training the kids to, you

6:44

know, use the hearing to an even better extent,

6:46

if you like.

6:46

Yeah. Exactly that. So, um, and

6:49

it was amazing, like, uh, you

6:51

know, just the way that they took to

6:53

the, the task at hand and, and,

6:55

um, yeah, they just just loved, loved,

6:58

um, you know, listening to those sounds and,

7:00

um, you know, we we were using different kind

7:02

of audio cues to kind of help them

7:04

understand whether they were getting closer

7:06

or further and, and things like that.

7:08

So it was. Yeah, it was it was a great exercise.

7:10

So really, I mean, without downplaying it, uh, Daniel,

7:13

you didn't kind of sort of reinvent

7:15

the wheel, if you like. It was kind of an adaption

7:17

of technology that's already out there.

7:19

Yeah. And I'm a big believer in,

7:21

uh, you know, using using technology

7:23

for what it's best for. And there's, there's readily

7:25

made stuff out there that, uh,

7:27

you know, surrounding us in our everyday lives

7:30

that, you know, that it's very accessible.

7:32

And so, um, you know, our job was

7:34

to try and, you know, piece that all together. And

7:36

how can we create an experience, um,

7:39

you know, with, with limited time

7:41

and stuff to, to kind of pull this together

7:43

and create a great event and a great

7:45

experience for these children. You know.

7:47

When we spoke to Janice from Cadbury, she said,

7:49

you know, the people from Cadbury's that were there were

7:51

quite, uh, sort of overjoyed and

7:53

really impacted by the reaction

7:55

and I guess similar for those those of you

7:58

from Future Labs.

7:59

It was a very rewarding project.

8:01

Um, and just to see the

8:04

kids with vision impairments, you know, just how

8:06

their faces lit up was amazing.

8:08

But then you look around to the parents

8:10

and you see that

8:12

they are just filled with joy. It was it was

8:15

like there was lots of tears. There was lots of tears

8:17

of happiness, you know? And again, such is such

8:19

a simple little thing that could just bring that

8:21

joy to, um, to, you know, many

8:23

people's lives.

8:24

Without breaching confidence. Daniel is an

8:26

expensive kind of thing to do. I mean, I guess

8:28

it's all relative anyway.

8:29

Yeah. So this was this was a prototype, you know? So

8:31

we were. We were kind of tasked with pulling together this

8:34

kind of little product together

8:36

as a prototype. So, uh, you

8:38

know, it, it can get it get expensive

8:40

and the tens of tens of thousands of dollars. But again,

8:42

it's it's all worthwhile. And it's companies

8:45

like Cadbury that are willing to

8:47

invest money in these types of

8:49

areas, just, you know, again, to try

8:51

and bring experiences outside

8:53

of the, you know, the normal everyday marketing and

8:55

advertising that that might be doing. So it's

8:57

it's great to see brands like that that are

8:59

willing to spend, uh, you know, these this

9:01

type of money to, to try and pull something like this

9:03

off.

9:04

Well, tell us a bit about Future Labs and yourself. You're

9:06

founder director. Um, what kind

9:08

of, uh, I got you interested in this area? And,

9:10

B, you know, how did the future labs come about?

9:12

Yeah. So Future Labs is a creative agency.

9:15

Uh, you know, we work predominantly with, uh, you know,

9:17

in the marketing and advertising space, but,

9:19

uh, our kind of positioning is we're a

9:21

tech inspired creative agency.

9:23

So everything that we do, um,

9:25

we use technology in all different

9:27

ways, shapes and forms, either

9:30

to enhance and experience, enhance

9:32

someone's life or just merely

9:34

solve a problem. And so I

9:36

kind of I was a developer, a programmer back

9:38

in the day, and I was always interested in technology.

9:41

But working in, say, the marketing and advertising

9:44

space is, is quite an interesting

9:46

area because as I said before, there's there's

9:48

companies that are that are willing to invest

9:50

because they see the value in, in

9:52

this technology to, to kind of again, get

9:54

their marketing and campaign messaging across

9:56

to different audiences. So, you know,

9:59

um, it's started by building websites

10:01

and building, you know, mobile applications.

10:03

But it could, you know, now it's venturing into augmented

10:06

reality and virtual reality and all these different

10:08

kind of fun, uh, tech fueled

10:11

kind of experiences that we kind of work on

10:13

on a daily basis.

10:14

I guess for you, you kind of do it as a

10:16

business, if you like. And, uh, you know, it's

10:18

probably all kind of, well, not so much self-learning,

10:20

but all stuff that you've learned in the past.

10:22

What about in the area of kind of accessibility

10:25

or inclusion, that sort of

10:27

thing? I mean, is that something that you've kind of

10:29

got to work on this now kind of school

10:31

to go to, to kind of get that, uh, that

10:34

grounding, if I can call it that.

10:35

It's a very good question. As as

10:37

time has progressed, I guess when I, when I started,

10:39

it was all very self-taught and just experimenting

10:42

and the like. But

10:44

I think people are becoming more and more aware

10:46

of this. And inclusivity is a big

10:48

thing and stuff that we, we preach

10:50

on a daily basis. If, uh, you know, if people are

10:52

to follow me on LinkedIn, you see, I'm always,

10:55

always talking about this, this type of stuff.

10:57

And again, you know, using technology to

10:59

enhance, enhance a life or an experience,

11:02

it can be a little bit of self self-taught.

11:05

And it's areas that we're we're

11:07

pushing, you know, you know, just to to reel off a

11:09

few things. You know we we build

11:11

kind of chat based experiences like something

11:13

like say for Google Home or Amazon Alexa.

11:15

But now you've got the advancements of

11:18

AI coming into play where if you can use

11:20

that in a really positive way to to

11:22

help learn about the person that you're having

11:24

that dialogue with, to again learn

11:26

and understand them better and then therefore offer

11:28

a better solution to them. Is is really

11:31

powerful. Going right through to say,

11:33

a retail experience where someone might

11:35

might walk into a store, you know,

11:37

where we're looking to use, you know, sound

11:40

and sense, you know, different audio cues.

11:42

So someone is he's interacting

11:44

with the products. You know, we can kind of use other

11:46

forms of technology to to

11:48

try and get that message across. And

11:50

um, something recently that we're, we're

11:52

looking at is, you know, augmented reality.

11:54

I'm not sure for the listeners that, you

11:56

know, understanding augmented reality, but that's where,

11:59

you know, you say you can use your phone or your mobile

12:01

device to to analyze the

12:03

real world around you, you know, using

12:05

computer vision and the phone's camera. And

12:07

we're using kind of, you know, augmented reality to,

12:09

to do just that, where it can then provide

12:12

audio cues and sound cues back to, say,

12:14

someone with vision impairment to kind

12:16

of, you know, describe what's going on around

12:18

them will help help guide them in a, in a certain

12:21

way. So there's, you know, there's lots of fun

12:23

uses of technology out there. And we're very

12:25

fortunate we get to play with that on a daily basis. But

12:27

then there's there's lots of meaningful and purposeful,

12:29

you know, uses of this type of stuff as well, which is

12:31

really exciting.

12:32

I'd imagine that one of the great things about your job

12:34

in particular, say, in this instance with Cadbury's,

12:37

is that you can kind of tailor make things

12:39

as well rather than sort of, you know, something off the

12:41

shelf that's going to, you know, be, you

12:43

know, good for those that want to use it for kind of

12:45

everyone and anyone. Like you're a bit more

12:47

sort of tailor made, a bit more individualized

12:50

as far as your quote unquote service goes.

12:52

Exactly that. So I mean, we get we

12:55

get kind of contacted by, you know,

12:57

different marketers and brands and other

12:59

agencies, like in this instance, we were

13:01

we were contacted, uh, for for

13:03

our PR agency called out shift,

13:05

who actually were working with Cadbury on

13:07

how can we bring a bit more exclusivity into

13:09

the mix. And, uh, it was we're

13:11

we're very fortunate that they thought about future labs

13:13

and they thought, you know, we can be the problem solvers

13:16

here. You know, we are not just

13:18

off the shelf. We can, you know, build an experience

13:20

around, you know, a certain problem that we're trying to solve.

13:23

And yeah, again, very fortunate to

13:25

to be contacted and bought into bought into

13:27

the space. And you know.

13:28

There's nothing wrong with free enterprise and I guess

13:30

in that sort of area. You're like, everyone's

13:32

looking for that edge. I mean, you know, Cadbury's

13:35

want to have that edge over whoever, whoever

13:37

their competitor might be. And this

13:39

is the sort of thing that just gives them that edge. And yeah,

13:41

that that's kind of that's that's the way the world

13:44

should work. And and if it becomes competitive

13:46

then the end result for the individual has got to be

13:48

better too.

13:49

It is. And as I said before, just

13:51

just the investment and, you know, and

13:53

and the trust that they're putting into, say

13:56

a company like ours to, to do this, as

13:58

I said, it's, you know, it's not terribly cheap. But again, you

14:00

know, you've still got to invest a little bit of money in time

14:02

and, and effort to, to pull something like

14:04

that. So again, I'm really proud

14:06

for the companies like Cadbury that are willing to do

14:08

this. They don't have to, but they want to.

14:10

We talked about obviously vision impairment, but I mean there's

14:13

so many more applications. I mean, you know,

14:15

we often hear Australia, the world I guess

14:17

is like kind of a an ageing

14:19

population if you like. And there's all sorts

14:21

of advantages to be able to use technology

14:23

to make life, you know, better for

14:26

people, you know, with any sort of disability.

14:28

And, you know, even just the kind of run

14:30

of the mill sort of ageing things that

14:32

happen when we all get a bit older. Yeah.

14:34

I think like the mobile device

14:36

is, is such a powerful tool these days.

14:39

You know, uh, you know, whether

14:41

that's positive or negative. But, but, but things

14:43

in every way everyone's mobile phone, you know,

14:45

if it can be used for the positive and, you

14:47

know, even even things for, for say,

14:49

you know, uh, deaf people, for example,

14:52

you know, using haptics and vibration

14:54

and, and stuff like that, you know,

14:56

that's to kind of help. Yeah. Get

14:58

a message. Message conveyed is, is so

15:01

is so cool in my opinion. Um,

15:03

you know, why don't we use these technologies and again,

15:05

make, make things better and make, make,

15:08

make it a better place.

15:09

Yeah. I mean, technology cops, a lot of criticism and

15:11

a lot of instances is probably justified. But

15:13

the sort of opportunity that does open up and I

15:15

mean, you know, uh, I think was

15:17

it 2007, the iPhone came in

15:19

and I mean, there's been so many developments since then,

15:22

but gosh, that's you know, it depends how

15:24

you want to look at it. So almost half a

15:26

generation or a generation ago. So it's not

15:28

really all that long.

15:29

No. Exactly. Exactly. And it's, it is

15:31

it is kind of scary when one respect. But

15:33

uh, the other thing is, is good. And, uh,

15:35

people might start hearing a lot about AI,

15:37

like, that's, that's the next big, big thing.

15:39

And, you know, again, you could sit here and debate it, the

15:42

pros and cons. But again, there's

15:44

I think if you use it in a great

15:46

way, it can easily enhance, um,

15:48

someone's day to day living by having

15:50

a little bit more assistance. Not saying you don't have to

15:52

think for yourself, but again, just having a little bit of

15:54

assistance, uh, and save you time

15:57

where you can then better spend your time elsewhere

15:59

with family and friends. You know, I think

16:01

it's a great thing.

16:02

It will certainly, uh, you know, more recreational

16:04

time is probably better for people physically and also

16:07

particularly for the mental health, which is an issue that

16:09

comes up more and more these days as well.

16:11

Exactly, exactly.

16:12

Daniel, obviously, uh, you're

16:15

happy to hear from people who might have some ideas

16:17

that you might have some ideas for them that you can help

16:19

with because you work in all sorts of areas. I noticed,

16:21

as you say, sort of advertising, marketing

16:23

or sports or all sorts of variety, kind

16:26

of, uh, what they specialize in. But you

16:28

generalize them if I.

16:29

Yeah, that's exactly, exactly

16:31

that.

16:31

Not always. Uh, our phones are always on,

16:33

our doors always open. So, uh, yeah, future labs

16:35

is always looking to collaborate with, um,

16:38

different people. And we've been very fortunate

16:40

to, to work in, uh, you know, not just

16:42

here in Australia, but all around the world. You know, we've

16:44

worked with, you know, we've the team have just come

16:46

back from the Rugby World Cup in Paris last

16:48

like last year. And you know, it's it's

16:50

it's quite an exciting space. So we're always

16:53

open to uh, you know just having a chat

16:55

even. We just love we just love talking about this

16:57

type of stuff. And yeah, just getting everyone's opinions

16:59

and thoughts and just learning from each other.

17:01

What's good to hear about Aussie companies doing

17:04

well and particularly doing well on, on the international

17:06

stage as well. Yeah.

17:07

No it's great. And uh, yeah. And very fortunate.

17:09

How can we find out more about you and what you do.

17:11

Yeah. So the best thing is just probably visit our website.

17:13

It's Future Labs co com.

17:15

Or you could follow myself on LinkedIn Daniel

17:17

Hewitt. Um again I'm always posting

17:20

there regularly, um, posting ideas

17:22

and cool uses of technology that might inspire

17:24

people.

17:24

Well, Daniel, we really enjoyed the chat with Jonathan.

17:26

We really enjoyed the chat with you and it's such a

17:29

heartwarming thing. And I think a really important

17:31

point you made with about the reaction from

17:33

the parents. I mean, it's great for the kids

17:35

and, you know, they probably enjoyed it, uh,

17:37

very much. But, uh, I guess the,

17:39

uh, the inner glide that the parents would have had would

17:41

be something prices. So something to really take

17:43

away. Thanks for spending some time with us and we wish you

17:45

well. All right.

17:46

Thank you Peter. Appreciate it.

17:47

That's Daniel here. He's the founder and director

17:50

for Future Labs feature slideshow. Com

17:52

we'll put that up on our Facebook page. But a

17:54

great story as far as technology and

17:56

disability and inclusion all coming together

17:58

for a wonderful outcome. This

18:03

next interview is conducted via zoom.

18:05

Sometimes it doesn't turn out exactly

18:08

as we'd like. If there's any

18:10

reception problems, we do apologize

18:12

in advance. Please bear with us and

18:15

bear in mind next time. Hopefully

18:17

it'll be better. Let's

18:22

speak to a couple of students who have got a

18:24

passion project, which may be you might

18:26

be able to help out with. Let's welcome

18:28

one who came to the program. One, I thank

18:30

you for your time and appreciate you speaking to us. Oh,

18:32

no.

18:33

Thank you Peter. Thank you for having us.

18:34

And Eileen Kim as well as well. Eileen. Eileen,

18:37

thank you for your time.

18:38

Thank you for having us. Well, I hope.

18:39

That because a bit about the background to all

18:41

this, you're looking for feedback regarding

18:43

the Vue app.

18:44

Yeah. Um, we're starting off with

18:47

the Trip View app, but I guess in

18:49

the broader scope of everything, it's more

18:51

about the transportation apps within Australia.

18:53

But because we're located in Sydney,

18:56

I think that we're familiar with here

18:58

in New South Wales or Sydney area, it's

19:00

the view app. And so we've been kind

19:02

of investigating the app. Yeah.

19:04

Eileen, uh, I should say

19:06

what has got you to this point? Uh, how's

19:08

this all come about?

19:09

Um, so the idea really hit close to

19:11

home because we have friends and family members

19:13

who are vision impaired, and just

19:16

seeing the challenges they face while navigating

19:18

public transport made us realise how crucial

19:20

accessibility really is. So a real

19:22

opportunity to make a difference with,

19:25

um, transporting apps, the sector,

19:27

it's not just about improving an app. To us,

19:29

it's all about empowering our loved

19:31

ones and, um, and others like them

19:34

so that they can travel more independently

19:36

and confidently as well as

19:38

safely.

19:39

Here's a bit about the Trap View app at the moment.

19:41

So it's in Melbourne and Sydney, I believe. Is that

19:43

right? Correct. And what is it mainly

19:45

for buses or different types of, uh,

19:48

transport?

19:49

Um, it's it's for all kinds of transport

19:51

that's available. So in Sydney,

19:54

uh, it's for buses, trains,

19:56

um light rail and ferries.

19:58

Okay. So it's quite wide ranging. So obviously

20:00

it's the sort of thing that impacts upon people,

20:02

uh, depending on all kinds

20:04

of their transport that they may choose to choose to

20:06

use.

20:07

Yeah, absolutely.

20:08

What about you? Tell us a bit about your background

20:10

and what has led you to this, because it's

20:13

a passion project. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

20:15

Sounds like a very honourable thing

20:17

to be doing.

20:18

I'm not sure about if it's honourable, but

20:20

it's I feel like it's I think me and Eileen

20:23

resonate with this. It's I think it's our

20:25

desire to at least to make

20:27

a positive impact, either being within

20:29

the small community that that we live

20:32

in, being friends and family or the what

20:34

if we can impact the what bigger community?

20:36

Um, I think that's that's something

20:38

that we identify as being a success

20:41

to this passion project, but we just wanted to investigate

20:43

it primarily in regards to my

20:46

background. Um, my background,

20:48

I, I studied a bachelor's

20:50

of visual arts and design,

20:52

and recently I studied,

20:55

uh, UX design at General Assembly.

20:57

And that's the same with Eileen as well.

20:59

For anyone who doesn't know what UX design

21:02

is, it's, uh, it's it's an abbreviation

21:04

for user experience designer.

21:07

Um, and so what are you UX design

21:09

or user experience designer does?

21:11

Is it focuses on,

21:13

I guess, the interaction between humans

21:15

and products. And the products

21:18

can be websites,

21:20

apps, uh, any software

21:22

that anyone uses. So the mobile phone

21:24

that you use and it can be as

21:27

physical as navigating

21:29

a supermarket. So

21:31

it's kind of, I guess,

21:33

analyzing and making sure

21:35

that the product is serving the human, not the

21:37

humans serving the product. So

21:40

it's got to be usable, easy to understand,

21:43

enjoyable, fun to engage

21:45

with, accessible. I guess that's the part

21:47

that we really want to dig into with

21:49

this app. And I guess with this passion

21:51

project, it has to be accessible to everyone

21:54

and for everyone. And it

21:56

needs to, I guess, achieve the

21:58

desired goal. So if it's for

22:00

anyone to travel to, I guess,

22:03

the CBD of Sydney, it needs

22:05

to achieve that goal. And how that's done

22:07

is something that the UX designer kind of investigates.

22:10

I mean, I think one of the very impressive things about

22:12

the things you've both said so far is the fact

22:14

that you're keen to get people's

22:16

experience because, you know, there's nothing

22:18

worse than someone telling you, I think I know what

22:20

you need, so you're actually going to

22:22

people who are using these apps, people

22:25

who are living the life to get their

22:27

their first hand experience of it and,

22:29

uh, you know, trying to improve that way.

22:32

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's

22:34

so important because it really helps us

22:36

understand the real world issues

22:39

that vision impaired people face.

22:41

And their feedback is vital as it forms

22:43

the backbone of our research.

22:46

And, um, so by gathering

22:48

these insights, we can better define

22:50

the problem and start develop solutions

22:53

that can genuinely meet their needs. And

22:55

I guess that's the beauty of user research

22:57

because you're speaking to the demographic

23:00

directly. So one.

23:01

I think you've just kind of started this. So

23:03

what are you looking for? So someone listening

23:06

in tonight that might be blind or have low vision

23:08

and want to sort of

23:10

be part of it, what kind of would you

23:12

want from from someone in terms of,

23:14

I guess, time, their experience,

23:17

that sort of thing?

23:18

Yeah, absolutely. Um, if

23:20

anyone. One can offer the time. And

23:22

just to sit down and speak with

23:24

us, that's that's so valuable to

23:27

us, to this project and experience,

23:30

I guess using public transport,

23:32

of course, it's about people with

23:34

disabilities, in this case,

23:36

people who are, I guess, either legally blind

23:38

or visually impaired. Yeah. And so

23:41

we're here today with speaking with you, Peter, to

23:43

see if anyone is interested in speaking

23:45

with us or sitting down as an interview. And

23:48

so we can understand the experience

23:50

better. But yeah, just to let

23:52

everyone know who's listening, um, these

23:54

are initial steps. So if we

23:56

aren't able to interview in this round,

23:58

hopefully we'll be able to interview

24:00

the next round. Or further,

24:03

if this passion project, uh, grows

24:05

into something like what.

24:06

About as far as, um, the amount of

24:08

time it will take? Is it kind of, at this stage, just

24:11

a one off interview? Yeah, one off interview.

24:13

Um, it should take around 30 to now.

24:15

And, um, we're happy to

24:18

send follow up questions. Um,

24:20

if we don't get to ask all the questions within

24:22

that time frame, of course, that is

24:24

up to the interviewee if they have time.

24:27

But yes, so far it's just a one off

24:29

interview. And we're hoping to

24:31

also, um, snowball recruit.

24:34

So if they know anyone who's also vision

24:36

impaired um, yeah. Like

24:38

introduce them to us. We'll be happy to interview them

24:40

as well. If they have time to grapevine.

24:43

As far as their people, bond alleviation works

24:45

very well. Eileen. So I think that's a very

24:47

good thing you've picked up on. What about

24:49

depending on people, if they use guide dogs

24:52

or long canes or the sort of

24:54

mobility aids that they use, is that make any

24:56

difference? Eileen. No, we're.

24:57

Actually trying to explore, um, individuals

24:59

who are on the,

25:02

um, I guess the entire spectrum. Yep.

25:04

So that would not be a problem at all.

25:06

And one goes that

25:08

that kind of matter, I guess, you know, as

25:11

long as they use public transport, uh, and

25:13

have had some experience. Well, actually, do you want to just

25:15

clarify that if they use public transport

25:17

but don't use the trip group, do you still

25:20

want to hear from them or is it kind

25:22

of part of the research that they have to

25:24

use the trip view app? No, not at all.

25:26

Um, I guess trip view, we

25:28

kind of we just said trip view because

25:30

it's something that's I guess local to

25:32

us. But no, any transportation

25:35

app that anyone uses

25:37

is that experience and that

25:39

that's what we want to hear and listen to. All right.

25:42

I mean, what about in terms of, uh, time

25:44

frame? Uh, this first round, I think

25:46

people have got maybe a, oh, about a month or so.

25:48

Is it to get in touch?

25:50

As this is a passion project? We don't really

25:52

have a deadline at the moment, which is also

25:54

working with our own schedules.

25:56

Um, so it's important.

25:58

Yeah.

25:58

So we're quite flexible.

26:01

From here then. I mean, I guess you collate

26:03

all the information from the interviews

26:05

you do. I mean, what about from there? What

26:07

what kind of happens to to the information?

26:09

And is it the sort of thing that if I take

26:12

part, I might be able to sort

26:14

of share in the information? I guess, uh,

26:16

it would be kept anonymously in terms of who said

26:19

what, but would you be happy to kind

26:21

of share the kind of findings from your

26:23

research?

26:23

Yeah. Of course. Um, obviously when the project

26:26

is complete, we're looking to write

26:28

a case study. And, um,

26:30

once we're done with the case study, we're happy

26:32

to share our findings, uh, to

26:34

all the interviewees.

26:36

So it's really good. What I what

26:38

about kind of from here then?

26:40

Uh, you said there's no kind of,

26:42

uh, time frame as such, but is

26:45

it kind of a loose time frame as

26:47

far as how much you'd like to know by

26:49

when and, and sort of go from there?

26:51

I guess that's, that's what we're trying

26:53

to tackle with as well within, I guess, the whole

26:55

passion project. But I think ideally,

26:58

I guess keeping time constraints

27:00

within us and making sure everything fits in with our

27:02

schedule. So I think ideally

27:05

we would love to have

27:07

as many interviews in the next month

27:09

and a half. So and then that allows

27:11

us to kind of move on to the next stage and kind

27:14

of extract what we have learned

27:16

and understand, I guess,

27:18

how in the UX world we say use

27:20

the pain points, and from that

27:22

what kind of solutions can we develop.

27:24

Just a little bit about the UX work

27:26

that you do or that, uh, it

27:28

goes on. So it kind of is,

27:30

is this a fairly common thing? I must admit, I

27:32

haven't really come across it much. And, you know,

27:34

I tend to try and keep up with things as much

27:37

as I can. Is this a fairly

27:39

new kind of approach, or has

27:41

it been, you know, around quite some time

27:43

and I've just been, uh, not not in the loop.

27:45

Uh.

27:46

No. It's, um, I

27:49

feel like it has been around for a while,

27:51

but also not known. Its UX

27:53

design is kind of relatively work in,

27:55

in, I guess in the behind

27:58

the scenes there. Quite I feel like

28:00

work hard, but quietly work as well.

28:02

So you kind of they're in the background.

28:04

Yeah. They're quite evidently they're kind of stemmed from,

28:06

I guess, like, uh, the architecture

28:09

world and like the architecture sort

28:11

of like making sure the

28:13

concrete and the base is strong and then

28:15

building up from it. So that's where the

28:17

thought process and the methodology kind of comes

28:20

from. UX design, I

28:22

feel like kind of exploded with the

28:24

boom of the internet and

28:27

mobile apps, with everything kind

28:29

of moving on to like the digital world.

28:31

And so people have kind of been iterating

28:33

and creating new ways to make that

28:36

experience better.

28:37

So it's probably the sort of thing that has been happening, and a lot

28:39

of us might not necessarily be aware of it. As you

28:41

said, it's kind of been whirring away in the background.

28:43

Yeah, definitely. One of the

28:45

stories that I love to talk about is

28:48

it's like the. Yeah.

28:50

So a good design is invisible

28:52

design. So that's how I like to yeah.

28:55

Say motto. It's like it's like the door

28:57

handle that you use. You never really have

28:59

to think about it too, too much. It's

29:02

intuitive. It's designed perfectly

29:04

for the human to understand how to use.

29:07

And so you don't have to,

29:09

I guess. Yeah.

29:11

I don't know how to contextualize it

29:13

very well, perfectly.

29:14

But yeah. And I like that

29:16

line about, you know, good design has to

29:18

be or can be invisible because, I

29:20

mean, you know, I guess it's when it isn't good

29:22

design that people notice that.

29:24

Yeah, exactly. Um, I'm

29:26

pretty sure when we go through the

29:28

real world we always interact with, like,

29:30

this is why would anyone put

29:32

that there? Or why would anyone put, like,

29:34

I guess I can't think of anything, Eileen.

29:37

You can you think of anything that's

29:39

kind of in the real world that you've kind of

29:41

been like, why is that there? Or why is

29:43

that design there?

29:44

Well, I'm sure.

29:45

With websites and websites

29:47

and apps, there's probably things that kind of

29:49

happened that make them inaccessible.

29:51

And I often think I don't think people are necessarily

29:53

setting out to say, I'm going to make this really

29:55

difficult for a person with a disability. It

29:57

kind of just happens because either people don't

29:59

know what's an oversight, and indeed,

30:02

if it's pointed out and they change it, then that's a

30:04

that's a really good thing. But it's almost like it was

30:06

meant to happen. Um, but I don't

30:08

think people, you know, um, consciously

30:10

try and make things difficult to sometimes

30:12

happens because of like, a thought

30:14

or lack of understanding.

30:15

Yeah, definitely. I guess I

30:18

guess it kind of works in both ways as well. So

30:20

it's like I think, uh, if

30:22

you imagine yourself going through Amazon

30:24

or a e-commerce website and

30:26

you're trying to purchase something, I guess

30:29

a way of I guess if

30:31

if good design is also invisible,

30:33

it should also be kind of sometimes hard.

30:36

It's making sure that you're providing

30:38

feedback to the user. It's like, oh,

30:40

are you sure that you want to pay something that's

30:42

also, uh, a UX design

30:44

that's been implemented when a person

30:46

or a customer uses their website. So

30:48

making sure reassuring the user,

30:51

uh, that they're making making

30:53

a purchase is also, I

30:56

would say like a, I don't know the right words,

30:58

but it's also invisible but

31:00

also evident at the same time. It

31:02

really depends on the goal that you're trying to sit on.

31:05

Yeah, I like the way you guys think.

31:07

Well, right now if people want to get involved.

31:09

But what do you want to do? Why do you want to give your email

31:11

address. And we can share that around

31:13

on email list and on Facebook as well. Are you comfortable

31:16

to do that?

31:16

Yeah. Of course. Um, yeah. If

31:18

you would love to be a part of this project and

31:20

to be interviewed, uh, please

31:23

email me at uh, one

31:25

ho dot Joakim

31:28

at gmail.com. And

31:30

I believe it's going to be on the description,

31:33

um, for this. Yes.

31:34

We'll put that there as well.

31:36

Yeah.

31:37

We need to keep in touch with you, uh, uh,

31:39

one on a line because, um, this

31:41

this sounds really good. And I love the fact that

31:43

it's a passion project in you. You sort of think

31:45

there's a problem there, but you'd like to find out from the

31:47

users exactly what it is and how it

31:49

might be able to be made better. So I

31:52

congratulate you on the initiative, and we

31:54

wish you well and hope to keep in touch.

31:56

Thank you so much, Peter.

31:57

Thank you so.

31:57

Much. That's the one who came.

31:58

And also Eileen Zang, who

32:01

told us about their passion project, trying to make

32:03

public transport more accessible.

32:05

A really good thing to be trying. You're

32:07

listening to Focal.

32:08

Point on Vision Australia. Writer 11:07

32:11

a.m. by radio, digital

32:13

and online at VA radio. Org.

32:17

Well. Janine Sidhu is always doing

32:19

lots of things and often helping many

32:21

other people. Janine is going to share

32:24

such an experience with us. Janine, always great to

32:26

catch up. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Now

32:28

you've got involved fairly recently with

32:30

what sounds like a terrific title for

32:32

an organization or a movement. Tell us a bit

32:34

about it.

32:35

Yes, the.

32:36

Organization is called action

32:38

for happiness. It's a UK

32:40

based organization which

32:42

was launched in 2011.

32:45

So it's a few years old now.

32:48

It's a movement of people

32:50

taking action to increase

32:52

happiness and kindness

32:54

in the world. And, you know,

32:57

some people hearing this major

32:59

think, oh yeah, yeah, another good,

33:01

happy, happy, happy organization.

33:04

But I have found

33:06

it really useful for

33:08

myself. And also

33:11

I've met quite a few people through

33:13

it. It brings people

33:15

together in a way that a lot

33:17

of other organizations wouldn't.

33:20

We meet on zoom,

33:22

but there's also social media,

33:25

and the organization provides

33:27

free resources, and

33:30

it really helps people

33:32

to learn evidence

33:34

based skills for happiness

33:37

living. And I've

33:40

joined it, and I feel

33:42

a sense of belonging to the organization,

33:45

as well as having a commitment

33:47

to creating a more happier

33:50

world. And, um,

33:52

the organization has no religious,

33:55

political or commercial

33:57

affiliations and welcomes

33:59

people from all parts of

34:01

society, so it's

34:03

very inclusive. The patron

34:06

of it is the Dalai Lama.

34:08

And there are

34:11

let me see the number of members

34:13

six four, 4282

34:19

members. So there's quite a

34:21

few people belonging to it

34:23

and share the same, um,

34:25

concerns. But the

34:28

thing I really like about it is

34:30

I meet there like minded people

34:33

who take well-being seriously

34:35

and commit to making it part

34:37

of their lives and to

34:39

be part of other people's lives

34:41

who they live, work, and interact

34:44

with in their lives. And

34:46

I do have a strong interest in

34:49

wellbeing, so I feel

34:51

that it's a good fit for me.

34:53

Did you find it, Janine?

34:54

I found out about it from a

34:56

newsletter, I can't remember which

34:58

one, and I

35:00

initially looked at the website, then

35:03

did a ten week program

35:05

which was done via email,

35:08

and then decided last year

35:10

to train as a

35:12

volunteer for the organization,

35:14

which was for modules

35:17

online, which were fully accessible.

35:19

I'm very glad to say.

35:21

Um, and.

35:22

I was met with another volunteer

35:24

who lives in Melbourne, and

35:26

we have run two courses

35:28

together. One was a six

35:30

weeks happiness habits

35:32

course, and this

35:35

year we're running a monthly course

35:37

which is ten Keys

35:39

to Happier Living, which we

35:42

run together on the

35:44

first Tuesday of each month, and

35:46

we met up together. We both live

35:49

in Melbourne, met up together, got

35:51

on well and we've been in contact

35:53

ever since we met up. And

35:55

my co facilitator

35:58

does the tech stuff because

36:00

it's a bit hard for me and

36:03

I do the contact

36:05

and feedback with the organisation

36:08

and also with group

36:10

members, so it works out

36:12

well. We both do what we're probably

36:14

best at.

36:16

Mhm.

36:16

Because it sounds like it's very well structured.

36:19

Janine. It's not just oh this is a good idea. Do you want

36:21

to be part of it. But it sounds like it's um

36:23

it's very well structured and quite

36:25

um, uh sort of specific in

36:27

the sort of areas that covers.

36:29

Yes.

36:29

The areas that covers, they

36:31

send out, um, good notes

36:34

for every session that people

36:36

run, and there's plenty

36:38

of resources that they provide for

36:40

volunteers. And also,

36:42

um, a new thing that I'm trying

36:45

through the group is called Coffee

36:47

Roulette, where they match

36:49

volunteers from two volunteers

36:52

together, and we meet up

36:54

by, well, I'm meeting with

36:56

zoom tomorrow nights, my first

36:58

involvement in this kind of thing,

37:01

and I'm going to be talking with

37:03

a woman from the UK, so

37:05

that'll be a bit of fun.

37:07

So the roulette kind of is, uh,

37:09

you know, you're sort of matched up by chance,

37:11

if you'd like. Rather specific. Yeah. Yes.

37:13

Terrific. Um, tell us about the monthly

37:16

meetings that you have. Because they've all got rather

37:18

clever little names to them.

37:19

Yes I do. We've had a

37:21

few of them so far, and

37:24

uh, the first one this year

37:27

was Friendly February, then

37:29

Mindful March, active

37:31

April, and we've got

37:33

coming up meaning for May and

37:36

Joyful June. So yes,

37:38

there is a little click

37:40

for each one. And

37:42

if people don't want to join a group,

37:45

they can just go to the website and

37:47

get some of the resources that are

37:49

used for the group. There's a video

37:51

from an expert and

37:54

a calendar, or a monthly calendar

37:56

with helpful ideas about

37:58

the theme for the month, so

38:01

people don't need to join a group. But,

38:03

um, if they'd like to. We're

38:06

looking for new members, you know, Melbourne

38:08

based group, and you don't need to

38:10

be a Melbourne resident

38:13

to be involved in that.

38:15

But it's really

38:17

just 90 minutes

38:19

per month. And as

38:22

I said, what I really enjoy about

38:24

is talking with people who

38:26

share an interest in

38:28

common with.

38:29

Me, because you've.

38:30

Talked to us before about, uh, sort of physical

38:32

work, if you like, or physical exercise,

38:35

uh, uh, yoga, that sort of thing. But

38:37

I guess what, I guess the

38:39

mental health side of things is will probably, in a sense,

38:41

equally important and might be even more important because

38:43

you can have a fit mind or you can have

38:45

a fit part of it if your mind, perhaps, uh,

38:47

isn't as good as it could be, you know, that's

38:50

not a good thing.

38:51

I think they're both important. Yeah, probably

38:53

equally, but it certainly

38:56

keeps people on the right track.

38:58

And most of us share

39:01

our interest in this with

39:03

people we know. A lot of people

39:05

share it through people in their workplace

39:08

and that sort of thing. So

39:10

it's just really

39:12

involving.

39:13

Well, it's sort of.

39:14

Spreading happiness, uh, you know, in

39:16

a very meaningful and real way rather than

39:18

just, you know, being happy yourself, kind of

39:21

sharing it is very important as well.

39:23

Yes.

39:23

I find that the case.

39:24

Yes.

39:25

You talked about doing the courses, etc.

39:28

and meeting on zoom. A lot of people would be comfortable

39:30

with, you know, using zoom these days. There quite

39:32

occasionally there might be a little glitch, but that's part of the

39:34

fun of it. So the courses and

39:36

the way that you learn and participate

39:39

is quite accessible, because it's

39:42

got nothing to do with a sense. What's with

39:44

disability, does it?

39:45

No, nothing at all. But

39:47

that being said, in our group,

39:50

we may have a little more description

39:52

than some other groups because

39:55

I can't read what's on the screen,

39:58

um, slides and stuff like that.

40:00

So my co facilitator

40:02

make sure that I know what's

40:04

happening, and I know

40:06

that she would welcome any other

40:08

people who have low

40:11

vision or who are blind to

40:13

the group and, uh, anyone

40:16

is just catered for and

40:18

one really great thing is when

40:20

I met this lady, I

40:23

did tell her I couldn't see before

40:25

we met and she said, oh no problem,

40:27

I haven't met anyone who's blind will

40:30

be okay.

40:31

It's very reassuring when you get that sort

40:33

of response, rather than someone that's a little bit hesitant.

40:35

And then all of a sudden you're kind of not quite

40:37

sure how to approach it, but to have that sort

40:40

of reassurance is a very comforting

40:42

thing as well.

40:42

Yes, that's true, and the organisation

40:45

has made it quite easy. I was having

40:47

a bit of trouble, um, accessing

40:50

something and they send

40:52

me it in a word document

40:54

now after I've asked

40:57

for that. So it's really

40:59

inclusive and it's very good.

41:01

So you can join up for sort

41:03

of further participation if you like,

41:05

and group or uh, participation

41:07

with other people. But there's also a website

41:10

where you can just get general information,

41:12

you know, for yourself, kind of anonymously.

41:14

Yes, exactly. There's a website and

41:17

there's also an iOS and

41:19

Android apps. Okay.

41:21

Website. Shall I give that?

41:23

Yeah, sure.

41:24

It's action for happiness

41:26

at o g. Very easy

41:29

to remember. And

41:31

as well in Australia as well

41:33

as a group in Melbourne, there's

41:35

also a group in Adelaide which I

41:37

have attended because I wanted to know

41:39

more about it before I decided

41:42

to run a group myself, and

41:44

there's a group in Perth as well.

41:46

All right.

41:46

Well it's fantastic and founded in the UK.

41:48

You said originally, is that right?

41:49

Yes, but.

41:50

There's groups all around the world. Um,

41:53

I was looking at them yesterday.

41:55

India, uh, USA,

41:57

uh, lots and lots of them.

41:59

Do you mean.

42:00

We spoke to you late last year when you

42:02

told us about another really,

42:04

uh, kind and sharing movement that you're

42:06

involved with? For those who might have missed that, uh,

42:08

talk to remind us what that was about, because that was

42:10

a really lovely message, particularly at

42:12

Christmas, Christmas time when, you know, for

42:14

some people it can be a lonely time as well.

42:16

Yeah. So it was with friends for good.

42:19

Whom I still volunteer

42:21

with. And that's

42:23

where people could ring in

42:25

and talk to

42:27

a friendly volunteer. They've,

42:30

uh, lost a bit of funding since

42:33

then. So now we've got a list

42:35

of numbers, who we call who. It's

42:37

people who have put their name down wanting

42:40

to get a call, and their hours

42:42

are a bit reduced, but the service

42:44

is still going. Not quite in the same

42:46

form, but I do talk to

42:49

a lot of people each week

42:51

and enjoy that.

42:52

Too, and.

42:53

Obviously they get a lot out of it. They put their name

42:55

down to want to be contacted. I mean, that that

42:57

phone call, you might think, oh, it's a few minutes out of your

42:59

day, but for them it probably makes it makes

43:02

their day.

43:02

Yes.

43:03

And they always thank volunteers

43:05

for ringing. And it's

43:07

really it's just

43:09

a very real good activity

43:12

for all involved I think.

43:14

Well, there's a lot of scientific evidence that you

43:16

probably don't need me to tell you because you're probably more

43:19

versed than I am in this area. But there's a lot of, uh,

43:21

evidence to show that, you know, if you can be

43:23

feeling good about things, that increases the

43:25

endorphins and the dopamine

43:27

in your in your body, which might also

43:30

increases your physical health. So

43:32

it all sort of ties in together really well

43:34

with the action for happiness. Did

43:37

you mention, is there a cost to be

43:39

part of that?

43:40

There is a cost for the

43:42

groups. It's a cost that

43:44

people, a donation that

43:46

they may afford to pay.

43:48

If people can't afford to pay

43:51

anything, they can contact the organisation

43:54

and request a free place.

43:56

Some people pay, some people

43:58

don't pay. It's not

44:01

a money making thing as such,

44:03

but it is a charity. So

44:05

some of us do give donations

44:07

towards it.

44:08

Well.

44:09

These things kind of don't operate for

44:11

absolutely nothing, so it probably costs a

44:14

bit in admin etc. so if

44:16

you can afford and they they appreciate that

44:18

donation, that's a great thing. Janine great

44:20

to catch up. Thank you. You all share really interesting

44:22

information with us and stuff that people can get involved

44:25

with. Maybe if they're thinking, oh, you know, I'm at a bit of

44:27

a loose end or I'd like a little bit more

44:29

meaning to my life or something to do, then these

44:31

are things that people can consider that are

44:33

going to, you know, take up their whole day. But since

44:35

I can maybe just, uh, help contribute

44:38

to making the society a better place, and

44:40

heaven knows we need more people like that at the moment.

44:42

Well, even just to look at the website

44:44

or give my email in

44:46

case anyone wants more information.

44:49

Yeah, do that and also give the website again

44:51

if people want to find out more. And as always,

44:53

we'll put that up in our Facebook page too.

44:55

Okay, great. My email

44:57

is Jess Whitford

45:02

at gmail.com.

45:05

And the website for action for happiness

45:07

is action for happiness.org.

45:11

Now just before you go before is

45:13

that for numeral four? Because that's some

45:16

of it is. If I know

45:18

that that's good. Do we get caught out with that

45:20

occasionally. So I'm glad you've put that

45:23

right. We'll make sure we have it right as well.

45:25

Janine, always great to catch up. You were

45:27

certainly, uh, brought in the world's, uh,

45:29

view on things, and we appreciate that.

45:31

Uh, I'm sure it won't be too long before we speak again.

45:34

Thanks a lot, Peter.

45:35

She needs to do their, uh, a very

45:37

passionate Demas supporter, but I think, more

45:39

importantly, helping the world be a

45:41

better place and happy place with some really good

45:43

tips. Hopefully that might help you too.

45:45

And with the internet, you can actually

45:47

tune into any radio station

45:50

in the world. They're the ones that I like because at least

45:52

I know where they are and I can hear them. They sort of

45:54

should all go back to

45:56

thinking, oh, where's the

45:58

back of the line? And once that's done,

46:00

that's about it. It's just that, uh,

46:03

quick and easy. That's an interesting

46:05

one.

46:06

Well, that can only mean one thing. And

46:08

that one thing is. Phil VanDerveer, co-founder

46:10

co-presenter for Focal Point is on the line.

46:13

Phil, always good to catch up.

46:14

It's good to catch up with you too, Peter.

46:16

Now we're sailing through April, which means

46:18

of course, the federal budget isn't too far

46:20

away. Um, any kind of early thoughts?

46:22

Lots of stuff being talked about?

46:25

Uh, yeah. I think

46:27

that that's going to be an interesting budget.

46:29

A lot is going to be put towards the

46:31

army services, the military,

46:34

all of those sort of things. That's

46:36

going to be a big thing

46:38

for them. As for the rest of us,

46:40

I think that we're going to just have to bide

46:43

our time as far as what they'll put

46:45

in. Hopefully they'll put a bit more into

46:47

the NDIS and

46:50

have that sorted out. So hopefully

46:52

that that's going to be the the thing.

46:54

But I really think they should consider

46:57

more on, um, health at the moment

46:59

because, um, there's been a bit of

47:01

an inquiry or a

47:03

dent to, um, uh,

47:05

three deaths here in South Australia

47:08

as a result of ramping. So it's

47:10

going to be interesting to see what the federal

47:12

government does with the

47:14

the budget this year. Well come back.

47:16

To the state in a second field. But yeah,

47:18

I mean, I guess as you say, there's certainly been

47:20

a lot of emphasis on the on the defense

47:23

budget, but also, you know, a lot

47:25

of emphasis being put on the tax cuts coming

47:27

in in July. That's okay for

47:29

people who work, but for those who don't.

47:31

I wonder whether there'll be any sort of cost of living

47:33

relief in the budget for those that

47:35

aren't going to benefit from the tax cut.

47:37

Well, they're.

47:38

Talking about it. I mean, I don't know how

47:40

much talk is. They say,

47:43

uh, talk is cheap sometimes, but I

47:46

don't know. It's going to be interesting to

47:48

see whether they they put their money where

47:50

their mouth is. And it's going

47:52

to be interesting to see how much

47:54

relief that we're going

47:57

to get, methinks. Probably not

47:59

a lot, because I think that the relief

48:01

we get will probably be minuscule

48:04

compared to what they should have,

48:06

and as things go,

48:08

is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

48:10

And another thing, of course, is whether this

48:13

is the last budget before an

48:15

election, if there indeed is an early election,

48:17

or there was some talk that next year's

48:19

budget might be in February March,

48:21

which means there'll be a bit of a lead in period

48:23

to the election, which is due in May. So

48:26

I guess if it's if it's not a very sweet

48:28

budget, that could signal the fact that there might

48:30

be another one before the election, and

48:32

the election would definitely be next year then.

48:34

And that will probably be where the

48:36

the big, big expenditure comes

48:38

into and the relief

48:40

comes into sort of sweating us

48:42

up to vote them back

48:44

into office.

48:45

Stand by for that. Just on the state, uh,

48:47

sort of state of politics, if I can say that,

48:50

um, a cabinet reshuffle, it seems like

48:52

the state government is now very much

48:54

focusing on housing. You touched

48:56

on health. It seems like, um, I'm not

48:58

sure whether they've tried to hand pass it or deflect,

49:01

but seems like housing has taken the kind

49:03

of a front front seat.

49:05

Yeah, and it's an interesting one because

49:08

on one side of the coin, you're seeing

49:10

people who are in the middle of

49:12

building houses and going through

49:14

various building companies and

49:17

they end up falling over, and a lot

49:19

of people end up having houses that are incomplete.

49:22

Now that's one side of the coin. And then, of course,

49:24

you've got the other side of the coin where the

49:26

government is releasing land and property

49:29

in various areas and coming up

49:31

with ideas on building homes

49:33

to overcome the

49:35

housing problem. So to fix up

49:37

one half a dozen the other. I'm not so

49:40

sure that this is going to be.

49:42

There's a real easy fix to this at

49:44

the moment. I think it's just going to have to be

49:46

another one of those sort of firm,

49:48

just sit and wait until things actually

49:50

get moving, because building a house,

49:52

uh, is not something you do

49:55

in one day, sort of lap it up and

49:57

the way to go. There's a lot of things

49:59

that have to be done to

50:02

complete a house. And not only that, you've also

50:04

got to consider all of the other services

50:06

that go along with it, such as storage, electricity

50:09

and and so on.

50:10

I mean, you touched on the wrapping. It seems like

50:12

in a sense, the the state government

50:14

in particular have got the housing thing, which as you

50:17

say, is a long term fix, and the ramping,

50:19

which is obviously taking a lot longer

50:21

than they expected. So, you know, they've got a

50:23

bit of work ahead of them in the next couple of years.

50:24

I've got a funny feeling that come

50:26

the end of this year, I think we might

50:29

see something happen with

50:31

the the ramping thing as

50:33

a, as another big sweetener to,

50:36

um, to cover for next year

50:38

so that the following

50:40

year they can say, oh, we

50:42

fixed ramping. Now you can vote us back in

50:44

again.

50:45

Well, I'm sure we'll talk about it a lot more between

50:47

now and the election, but I reckon somewhere

50:49

someone asks Peter Malinauskas before

50:51

the election, if you don't

50:54

fix ramping, will you resign? And I think

50:56

he kind of said yes. So I'm sure

50:58

that's been recorded somewhere. But by

51:00

the same token, I guess it's probably going to be,

51:02

um, a way for him to get around it or

51:04

to kind of, uh, you know, uh,

51:06

maybe sidestep the issue in some sort

51:09

of way if it's not fixed. I

51:11

guess it's your definition of fixed that is

51:13

going to be the thing.

51:14

Yeah, that's.

51:15

Going to be the thing. I think we've just got to sit

51:17

and wait and see what does happen.

51:19

But you get, um,

51:22

uh, several members of the media who

51:24

sort of ask him questions and

51:26

he seems to try everything to

51:29

to dodge them because he knows

51:31

that he doesn't have the answer or

51:34

we think he doesn't have the answer, but,

51:37

uh, he doesn't want to give it to us yet.

51:38

Well, I.

51:39

Should say maybe there's a bit of tactic

51:41

in terms of, uh, bringing out,

51:43

uh, some more rules, some more

51:45

remedies before the, uh, before

51:47

the election to kind of really kick it into,

51:50

uh, to maybe lessen that ramping

51:52

situation. Phil, of course, depending on

51:54

what people are listening, it's, uh, the eve

51:56

of Anzac day as we go live to air

51:58

on 1190 7 a.m.. And I'd like

52:00

your reflections on Anzac Day, I think.

52:03

I know I was thinking a lot

52:05

about this, um, during the week.

52:07

Some of it, uh, is sad

52:09

in a way, because, uh, when I

52:11

knew Anzac Day, it was all about

52:13

the, um, uh, the Gallipoli

52:15

landing and. And also World

52:18

War One servicemen who

52:20

served during World War One

52:22

who marched and also followed by

52:25

World War Two, and most of them now have

52:27

all passed on, so it's not much

52:29

left of that. There are other services,

52:31

such as the Vietnam veterans who

52:34

march on the day, and all of the other

52:36

veterans who served in other wars

52:39

after Vietnam who will

52:41

probably march. But it's

52:43

still a reflection and a reminder

52:45

of how tragic the Gallipoli

52:47

landing turned out to be. And

52:50

we remember those who have fallen

52:52

back then. So I think that's

52:54

the most important thing to, um, to

52:57

take in as far as Anzac

52:59

Day is concerned.

53:01

Yeah, I think you're very right about that. And I

53:03

think it's a nice kind of gesture where,

53:05

um, descendants of those who served,

53:07

uh, get to be in the march.

53:09

Yeah, that's an important thing.

53:10

And I, I'm of the opinion

53:12

that in some respects, this

53:14

has got to happen, because if you're going to keep

53:16

this thing going, you've got

53:19

to be able to pass it down to relatives

53:21

as a way of remembering the

53:23

fallen. And remember those who

53:25

have served during World War One

53:27

and two, and probably in

53:30

the future. Three um, it's

53:32

got to be the, the, the, the

53:34

thing, I reckon.

53:35

What's happened, Phil, is that, uh, you know, we kind

53:37

of grew up in the 60s and 70s because

53:40

of the Vietnam War. There was a lot of kind

53:42

of, oh, I use the word a lot of hate for

53:44

war and a lot of antagonism towards

53:46

particularly the Vietnam vets when they returned.

53:48

And I think that's kind of now died down

53:51

a bit, if you like. And people are much more

53:53

kind of understanding and empathetic to

53:55

firstly, those that fought and,

53:57

and the repercussions for those that fought in

53:59

terms of, um, you know, post-traumatic

54:01

stress and the sort of issues that

54:03

have dealt, uh, that they've had to deal with because

54:06

of the fact that they did serve.

54:07

Yes. I think that that what we've,

54:09

uh, what we've learnt from that and particularly,

54:12

uh, later on in years is

54:14

to how to handle the post-traumatic

54:16

stress. And I think that we've done a

54:18

tremendous amount of work on that. I mean,

54:21

you've only got to look at the,

54:23

um, RFP guide dog services,

54:25

where they actually provide,

54:27

um, service dogs for those

54:29

people who, um, uh, suffered

54:31

that condition. And what

54:34

a wonderful thing it's done for them,

54:36

because it's just given them the ability

54:38

to move around without having

54:40

to, to be sort of shut in and

54:42

not being able to go out and do things.

54:45

And you mentioned.

54:45

That on International Guide Dog Day, which is very

54:47

appropriate. And so that's been a fairly recent

54:50

kind of thing. That service dog particularly

54:52

helping with people with PTSD and

54:54

also, uh, you know, particularly youngsters

54:56

with autism, I mean, that's kind of something

54:58

that is developed in more recent years compared

55:01

to, you know, guard dogs, which are around, uh, you know, 60,

55:03

70 or more years ago.

55:05

Yes.

55:05

Yeah, it is because it sort of most

55:08

people probably don't realize that. Of

55:10

course, when you're training a guide dog, if a guide

55:12

dog can't perform as a guide dog,

55:14

then there are probably other things that

55:16

the, um, uh, the

55:18

dog can be trained for and that this

55:20

is where these, uh, guide

55:23

dog services have actually taken

55:25

on that and have used

55:27

dogs for other purposes, and

55:30

which is a good thing.

55:31

But what sort of an impact did the

55:33

fact that often, um, chance in

55:35

school we were involved with the vet with

55:37

the Anzac Day march. What

55:39

sort of an impact do you think that's had on your reflections

55:41

of Anzac Day?

55:42

It's had a quite an interesting effect,

55:45

actually. When I was going to

55:47

towns and there were a number of days

55:49

where Anzac Day fell on a weekend and I'd

55:52

be either away for that weekend and

55:54

I was able to sort of see the march

55:57

either on television and so on.

55:59

But I remember one year we've actually went

56:01

to the Anzac Day march to

56:03

see the whole thing, but we saw quite

56:05

a bit of it, and that had a bit of a

56:07

profound effect on me, because I

56:10

was able to take in the, um, the

56:12

atmosphere of the march and, and

56:14

what it really meant for those that marched

56:16

and for those who were sitting on

56:18

the sidelines watching. I'll never

56:20

forget that. I can still remember, uh,

56:23

actually going to that

56:25

particular March.

56:26

Oh, great to catch up, as always. Now,

56:28

uh, we'll be joining you again next

56:30

month, and by then we'll have a bit of an idea of

56:32

what the federal budget contains.

56:34

And I guess then we also look forward to the state

56:36

budget. So there's always something to

56:38

talk about. Uh, I appreciate you speaking to us. Well,

56:43

it's great to hear from Phil will actually hear from Phil

56:46

in a second, who will give us his

56:48

Anzac Day messages and day

56:50

tribute coming up very, very shortly.

56:52

In the meantime, our audio description of

56:54

the week. It's coming up this Saturday evening,

56:56

10:30 p.m., of course,

56:58

on the SBS main channel,

57:01

secrets of the Royal Palaces.

57:04

Now this focus is on royal kitchens

57:06

and the emergence of culinary traditions

57:09

through the ages of time. That's

57:11

coming up this Saturday evening at 1030.

57:14

SBS TV the main channel,

57:17

Secrets of Royal Palaces

57:19

sounds pretty good. Rated PG.

57:22

So uh oh. Maybe just

57:24

before you have your late night snack,

57:26

tune into that and catch it with audio

57:28

description. Some birthdays

57:31

before we go. Happy birthday to Ricky

57:33

Chaplin. What a wonderful advocate Ricky has been

57:35

for many, many years. Also fine musician.

57:37

So happy birthday to you Ricky. Hope things

57:39

are going well. Very happy birthday

57:41

also to Jonathan Martin, one of the

57:43

first people who really got a podcast

57:46

and information out there about technology.

57:49

Let's work with a number of the big organisations

57:51

around town, around the world, I should

57:53

say. Really. So happy birthday to Jonathan.

57:56

Hope life is going well for you. And

57:58

speaking of wonderful people, a very,

58:00

very happy birthday to Jenny Stokes,

58:03

involved with Visual Australia Radio

58:05

five, RPI, RPI satellite back

58:07

in the 90s. Right up until well,

58:09

pretty much 2019. So

58:11

Jenny, hope things are going well for you and

58:13

your family. And a very

58:16

happy birthday to you, Jenny Stokes.

58:19

That's it for the program. Sam Rickard,

58:21

thanks so much for your help, Penguin. Thanks so much

58:23

for yours. Reminding you that Focal Point

58:25

is available on your favorite podcast

58:27

platform. Be kind yourselves.

58:30

Be thoughtful of others. All being well

58:32

focal point back at the same time. Next

58:34

week this is Visit Australia

58:36

Radio in Adelaide and in Darwin.

58:41

Yeah. And just before we go, there is one

58:43

thing I would like to say in relation to

58:45

Anzac Day, and that is that

58:48

at the going down of the sun and

58:51

in the morning we will remember

58:53

them, lest we forget.