0:00

The Global Jigsaw is the podcast lifting the

0:02

language barrier to show you the world through

0:05

its media. The

0:16

Global Jigsaw from the BBC World Service.

0:19

Listen now by searching for the

0:21

explanation wherever you get your BBC

0:23

podcasts. Hello,

0:29

I'm Autry Brown and today in

0:31

focus in Africa we are in

0:33

the Gambia to discuss views for

0:35

and against female genital mutilation as

0:37

parliament takes steps to overturn a

0:39

ban on the practice. We're

0:42

up in the air over

0:44

Somalia and Somali land as

0:46

a dispute over airspace raises

0:48

concerns. So, for example, they

0:50

might tell them to descend in altitude

0:52

or to change a course and

0:55

some of those have been benign, but

0:57

a handful of those have actually caused

1:00

conflicts and these aircraft have potentially been

1:02

put on collision courses. And

1:05

a gathering of girls from across West

1:07

Africa meet to talk about their lives

1:09

and their concerns. Joyce in

1:11

Liberia told me what she gained from

1:13

a previous meeting. When I saw my

1:16

fellow peers discussing about issues of furthering

1:18

there, that's why I was like, why

1:21

am I shy? I should be saying things I felt

1:23

in this area. I just got a one morning I

1:25

said, I won't be shy. At the

1:27

age of eight hours, they are long the MC

1:29

of the day. And I was like, wow,

1:31

I did this. I promised myself I would do

1:33

more. It's Thursday, the 28th of March. First,

1:40

we go to the Gambia. It

1:45

could be the first country to

1:47

reverse a ban on FGM or

1:49

female genital mutilation. There are those

1:52

who call it female genital cutting

1:54

because even in countries where it

1:56

has been outlawed, there was

1:58

always strong support for the practice. The

2:00

Gambia made FGM a crime punishable by up

2:03

to three years in prison back in 2015.

2:07

Less than 10 years later, Parliament

2:09

is taking steps to overturn that

2:11

ban. Campaigners say it

2:13

violates their cultural practices. To

2:16

be clear, FGM causes real

2:18

health problems for women who have had it done.

2:21

It can cause severe bleeding,

2:24

infections and complications during childbirth.

2:27

There are also several legal treaties in

2:29

international law that call it out as

2:31

a violation of the rights of women

2:33

and girls. Gambian parliamentarians

2:35

have postponed a final vote

2:37

to later this year after

2:39

some MPs called for more

2:42

consultation. The conversation continues

2:44

in the Gambia where we have many

2:46

listeners and also here on Focus in

2:48

Africa. So, let's hear from two

2:50

women, both of whom who had the

2:53

procedure done. Their views

2:55

diverge. First up, a

2:57

defence from Mariyama who says

3:00

the practice honours the Gambia's

3:02

traditions, culture and religion. I'm

3:04

not indeed happy about the

3:06

ban because it is our culture.

3:09

You say it's part of the culture but the government

3:11

banned it. There was a law against it. Yes.

3:13

And you didn't agree with that law. Why?

3:15

It is against our culture and our religion. So,

3:18

if the government wants to make a ban on

3:20

it, it's very shocking to us. It's

3:23

unfair to us and people don't agree

3:25

to the ban. Many people are angry

3:27

about it. Some are practicing it in

3:29

a cigarette form because they arrest some

3:32

people about it. So, people were

3:34

arrested because they were doing it while the

3:36

ban was on? Yes. Okay. Were

3:38

there people that you knew that were

3:40

arrested for practicing it while it was

3:42

being banned? Yes, I knew. I knew

3:44

some people that have been arrested about

3:46

it. You've been cut. How old were

3:48

you when you underwent the operation? I

3:50

was about 15. I also

3:52

went through it. Although it was painful,

3:55

we accepted time-dapse as part of the

3:57

investigation for humans. So, what is the

3:59

ban? the cultural value of it? Why

4:01

do you think women should be cut? It

4:04

helps us in disciplining our

4:06

children. Also it reduces quantification

4:08

among the youthful population. In

4:10

Islamic it is also a

4:13

purification. Many Islamic countries don't do

4:15

it. I do know about

4:17

it that even in the Gambia here there

4:19

are certain tribes that do not practice it.

4:22

So it's not necessarily a part of Islam

4:24

across the board and it's not culturally across

4:26

the board either in the Gambia and the

4:28

Gambia is not a very big country. So

4:30

it's a big difference though for people to

4:33

have. Do you have daughters? Yes I have

4:35

daughters. Have they been through the process or

4:37

are they going through the process? Yes they

4:39

have been through the process. And how old

4:41

are they? 10, 8 and 3. 10,

4:46

8 and 3 and have all of them gone through the process? Yes.

4:49

So even the 3 are old? Yes even

4:51

the 3 are old. So did you do

4:53

it when your daughters were very young like

4:55

when they 3 and under or did you

4:58

do it at different times? We do it

5:00

in different times. So what's the youngest that

5:02

it can happen? That's not it right.

5:04

Some even went through it by

5:06

a few months maybe two or three months. Right.

5:09

Did you ask your daughters at some point

5:11

or do you ask them what they think

5:13

of the process? What do they say? No.

5:16

You haven't asked them. Normally you don't ask about that.

5:18

So if the government doesn't lift the ban

5:20

what would you do? That would be

5:22

very shocking and annoying for people that

5:25

agree to the process. Okay. Thanks

5:27

very much. Yes thank you. Lala

5:30

Toure is a women's rights activist

5:32

and she is strongly opposed to

5:34

FGM. She has led discussions with

5:36

lawmakers to lobby them to maintain

5:38

the ban. FGM was banned in

5:40

the Gambia by legislation in 2015

5:42

and since then they had really

5:44

not been any serious prosecution until

5:46

2023 when women who

5:48

practiced FGM on girls who really

5:51

had serious complications were taken to

5:53

court and they were required

5:55

to pay a fine. And this is what

5:58

basically triggered the whole conversation because There

6:00

are people that believe that it is

6:02

their cultural or religious right to practice

6:05

FTM on women and girls. What

6:07

I'm wondering is whether people were also

6:09

saying perhaps that because it was underground,

6:11

because it was banned, it's

6:14

more dangerous. If people are going to

6:16

go ahead and do it anyway, why

6:18

not have it done above ground and

6:20

ensure the safety of these young girls

6:22

that have it done to them? I

6:24

think that in itself is very problematic.

6:27

I know there's been a lot of

6:29

conversation currently about medicalizing FGM about making

6:31

sure their safety procedures, people are trained to

6:33

do it. Data studies have proven that FGM

6:35

does not have any medical benefits to women

6:38

and girls and their bodies. It's

6:41

a very harmful practice that dehumanizes, degrades,

6:43

and violates the human rights of women

6:45

and girls. Why should

6:47

such a practice even be considered

6:50

for medicalization? The bottom line

6:52

is FGM should be banned. It should not be

6:54

allowed to happen in our societies and the rights

6:56

of women and girls should be protected at all

6:58

costs. Why is it so

7:01

deeply rooted though? I've just spoken to somebody who

7:03

says that she had it done to her when

7:05

she was a teenager. She's got

7:07

three daughters. The youngest is three, the

7:09

eldest is 10, and they've all undergone

7:12

female genital cutting. She says

7:14

it's part of the culture, it's part of the religion,

7:16

and she accepts that there are other people who don't

7:18

do it, but she says it's a

7:21

way of disciplining children and expressing

7:23

culture and religion. I think it's

7:25

important to establish that very knowledgeable

7:27

Islamic scholars around the world have

7:30

clearly stated that FGM is not a

7:32

religious obligation. It's not an Islamic practice.

7:34

They don't speak out against it though,

7:36

and there are other scholars

7:39

who say that it's

7:41

not forbidden. It's not endorsed necessarily, but

7:43

it's not forbidden. What's interesting

7:45

is, is it driven by culture and

7:47

religion endorses it? Go on, you're saying?

7:49

So FGM is a cultural practice. It

7:51

predates Islam based on Islamic history and

7:54

Islamic literature. So there's been a lot

7:56

of disagreements and conversations between Muslim scholars.

7:58

Islamic scholars on the intensity of the

8:00

hadith that actually talks about FGM and

8:03

the person that it comes from. Sadly,

8:05

it has been made a battle of

8:07

religion, a war on religion, and that

8:09

is not what it is. Culture,

8:12

religion, whatever it is that harms women

8:14

should not be allowed to be practiced

8:16

in our societies. The problem though is

8:19

that the people who defend it use

8:21

religion and they use culture and it

8:23

seems like they find refuge in

8:25

religion and culture to do it. The Gambia

8:27

is the first country that had the law

8:30

on the books and is now talking

8:32

about reversing it. There's clearly something quite

8:34

deep going on. What is it an

8:37

expression of is what I'm wondering. The

8:39

bottom line is this is about patriarchy,

8:41

reinforcing patriarchal values. This is about power,

8:43

it's about dominance, it's about control. Historically,

8:46

Gambian women, Gambian society is a highly

8:48

patriarchal society. There's been stereotypes and norms

8:50

that have basically dictated what should be

8:52

done to women, what should be done

8:55

to women's bodies in different

8:57

aspects. Because people in the Gambia really

8:59

strongly believe in their religion, really

9:01

strongly believe in their traditions and cultures,

9:04

this is the reason why we actually

9:06

have and all the problems we are

9:08

having today. At some point, we really

9:11

need to have honest conversations around why

9:13

FGM is really practiced in our societies.

9:16

Even in the conversations that you hear

9:18

scholars or people talk about why FGM

9:20

should continue, they talk about women that

9:22

are not caught, we can't control their

9:24

sexuality, we can't control their sexual needs.

9:26

Women that are not caught, they smell.

9:28

Women that are not caught. So it's

9:30

never based on anything cultural, anything religious,

9:32

it's always what we would do if

9:34

we are not caught as women, if

9:36

we do not undergo FGM. Tell us

9:38

about your own experience, as much or

9:40

as little as you feel comfortable talking

9:42

about. I went to FGM when

9:44

I was a baby, I was just a few

9:46

months old, so I can't really even remember what

9:48

happened to me. All I know is that every

9:51

day I look at my body and a piece

9:53

of it is missing because people thought it was

9:55

okay for them to caught women and girls in

9:57

our society. And earlier on,

9:59

you were talking about... about the woman who also

10:01

shared her experience. And I try as

10:03

much as possible in this advocacy to

10:05

hold grace for women who actually went

10:07

through it and think it should continue

10:09

because again, patriarchy is so

10:11

deeply rooted in our society that it

10:13

has been internalized by a lot of

10:15

women in our society. And these are

10:17

the same women that will go out

10:19

and justify why certain acts or certain

10:21

practices should continue. I'm interested in

10:24

you framing it as women who

10:26

are brainwashed in a way, saying

10:28

that they have internalized patriarchy.

10:31

Could it not be the case that

10:33

these are women who actually firmly believe

10:35

it for their own reasons and not

10:38

because they're brainwashed, they've thought about it

10:40

and this is an expression of how

10:42

they want to live in the world.

10:44

You know, when you live in very

10:46

highly patriarchal societies like the Gabbir, from

10:49

very early ages, we really internalized misogyny,

10:51

we really internalized patriarchy in our society.

10:53

So for a lot of us women

10:55

have had to unlearn everything that we

10:57

were taught as kids, unlearn everything that

11:00

we were brought up, believe in in this

11:02

patriarchal society. The other day when we were

11:04

at parliament, if you try to hold any

11:06

conversation with any of those women that were

11:08

at parliament, most of them don't even know

11:10

why they were there at parliament and supporting

11:12

the repeal of the law. Most of them

11:15

do not understand the complications, some of them

11:17

because of the lack of understanding of FGM

11:19

and the complications. Some of them actually do

11:21

have complications but do not know that it's

11:23

because of FGM. And all

11:25

of these contribute to women actually

11:28

joining the conversation to support the repeal

11:30

of a law that affects them. It's likely

11:32

to affect their daughters in the future. Should

11:34

the law be repealed and FGM be legalized

11:37

in the Gambia. What do you think is

11:39

the fate of the law? Do you think

11:41

that it will be repealed? I think that

11:43

there's a chance it will be repealed. There's

11:45

a chance it would not be repealed. We

11:48

have really powerful people in the Gambia, people

11:50

in positions of power, mostly men who are

11:52

in support of the repeal to happen. We

11:55

remain hopeful that National Assembly

11:57

members, lawmakers will understand that.

12:00

They have an obligation, they have a duty

12:02

to fulfill, to protect and uphold the commitments

12:04

that have been made by the Gambian government

12:06

to actually protect women and girls. In

12:09

doing that, they need to make sure that

12:11

they do not repeal the ban. We will

12:13

continue to advocate and lobby these lawmakers ahead

12:16

of the next session in June when we

12:18

think that it will be brought back to

12:20

the plenary. Okay. Lala, thank you

12:22

so much. Thank you for having me. And good luck. Lala

12:25

Thure and before her, Mariama, one

12:28

for and the other against female

12:31

genital mutilation. Let's

12:36

take to the airspace between

12:38

Somalia and Somaliland. You

12:40

will remember that the two territories

12:43

are in dispute. Somaliland declared itself

12:45

independent from Somalia back in the

12:48

1990s when Somalia was racked by

12:50

a civil war that continues, albeit

12:53

with much less intensity up to

12:56

today. The ramifications though

12:58

are felt in many different ways,

13:01

including what Somaliland can and

13:03

can't do. For

13:05

the record, neither Somalia nor

13:07

the rest of the world

13:09

recognizes Somaliland's claim to independence,

13:12

except for Ethiopia. Back

13:14

to the airspace. Somaliland is

13:16

accusing Somalia of giving commercial

13:18

airline pilots the wrong information.

13:22

And as far as Hargesa, the capital

13:24

of Somaliland is concerned, these

13:26

instructions led to a near collision

13:28

on at least one occasion recently.

13:31

This is the second time Somaliland

13:33

has accused Somalia of air traffic

13:36

control errors, but Somalia's information minister

13:38

has given short shrift to the

13:40

accusations. And so has

13:42

Emirates, one of the airlines named by

13:44

Somaliland. Just to say

13:47

that Somalia's airport was quite central to the

13:49

civil war I mentioned earlier. As

13:51

you'll hear in this interview with Sean Mendes, currently

13:54

an aviation consultant, but

13:56

back in 2013 when the civil war

13:58

was underway, he used to run

14:00

Mogadishu's airport. He picked

14:02

up the story of the fight over the control

14:04

of the airspace. So, in January

14:06

of 2024, starting

14:09

in January 2024, we've begun to

14:11

see some reports from aircraft flying

14:13

over Somalia in the Class A

14:15

airspace. So the Class A airspace

14:17

is the fully controlled

14:19

airspace where basically it's large commercial

14:21

jet flying at 16,000 feet

14:23

and higher. And the

14:26

frequency with which you talk to

14:28

air traffic controllers over Somalia is

14:31

132.5 megahertz. Now, that is

14:33

supposed to be managed from Mogadishu. However,

14:35

we've seen reports that when aircraft

14:37

are close to Hargisa, so basically

14:39

over the territory that is claimed

14:41

by Somaliland, they have

14:43

other air traffic controllers or

14:45

people pretending to be air traffic controllers

14:48

speaking to them on that same 132.5

14:50

megahertz frequency and

14:52

giving them instructions that are in conflict

14:55

with those that the controllers in Mogadishu

14:57

have heard they are given them. So,

14:59

for example, they might tell them to

15:01

descend in altitude or to

15:03

change a course. And some

15:06

of those have been benign, but

15:08

a handful of those have actually caused

15:11

conflicts where one aircraft had been given

15:13

an order by Mogadishu and another aircraft

15:15

had been given an order by Hargisa.

15:17

And these aircraft have potentially been put

15:20

on collision courses. Fortunately, aircraft are equipped

15:22

with TCAS, which is Traffic Collision Avoidance

15:24

Systems. It's basically like a radar on

15:26

the aircraft that warms if another aircraft

15:29

is going to be coming too close

15:31

to you. So these have been avoided.

15:33

There is a failsafe in place, but

15:37

obviously this is something that is not a

15:39

good thing when you're coming down to your

15:41

last line of defense. And therefore it has

15:43

become a concern for the international aviation community.

15:46

But this is not the first instance of

15:48

that happening, right? It has happened before. It

15:50

has happened a few times since January this

15:53

year. There have been multiple instances of this

15:55

reported. Remember, it has only been since 2017

15:57

that the airspace... reverted

16:00

back to Somali control and only full

16:04

air traffic control coverage in class A

16:06

airspace over the entire country. So, you

16:08

know, it's been a very limited window

16:10

since this has happened and unfortunately, reports

16:13

of this happening, including with some major

16:15

airlines like Ethiopian Airlines, Qatar Airways, etcetera

16:17

over the last few months. I think

16:19

that's what, you know, what's highlighted this

16:22

as an issue recently. So

16:24

essentially, we're talking about Somalia

16:27

restoring its authority

16:29

over the airspace and in that

16:31

way nullifying Somali lands claim

16:33

to independence. Oh, no, I don't

16:36

think so. I think, you know,

16:38

Somaliland is not recognized internationally and

16:40

is not a member of the

16:43

International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO. So

16:45

ICAO basically carves up the world

16:47

into different flight information regions. These

16:49

are basically jurisdictions over which, you

16:52

know, different countries can exert air

16:54

traffic control authority. And since Somaliland

16:56

is not a United Nations member

16:59

state, the airspace of Somaliland is

17:01

controlled by Somalia. Furthermore, Somaliland doesn't

17:03

actually have the capacity to control

17:05

airspace over, you know, over the

17:07

entire landmass there, that all those

17:10

investments in that technology is invested

17:12

in Mogadishu. There was an agreement

17:14

in 2017 between

17:16

Somaliland and Somalia on how to share the

17:18

revenues from the air traffic control. But,

17:21

you know, as the as the politics have become

17:23

more complicated, I presume there are issues with that

17:25

agreement as well now. And what are

17:27

the complications in the politics that you're talking

17:29

about? Well, I think the complications

17:32

are primarily, you know, brought forward by

17:34

this Ethiopian pseudo recognition of Somaliland. And,

17:36

you know, obviously, I think

17:38

it's one of the top most priorities

17:41

in Somali politics, in my experience, has

17:43

been to ensure that Somaliland has autonomy

17:45

rather than independence. So, you know, similarly

17:47

to where, you know, they treat Juba

17:49

land or Puntland in the north, they

17:51

want the same thing for Somaliland, at

17:53

least the federal government of Somalia does.

17:55

So I think, you know, any attempt

17:58

by Somaliland to gain international recognition. whether

18:00

that's through port agreements with Ethiopia, whether that's

18:02

through air traffic control,

18:05

you know, exertion of their right

18:07

to control their own airspace rather than allowing

18:09

that to be controlled from Mogadishu. These are

18:11

all things that Somalia, the

18:13

federal government of Somalia, views

18:15

as potentially detrimental to Somalia's

18:17

domestic and foreign interests. Could

18:20

we see an accident happening in

18:22

the air because of this tension? I

18:24

think it's highly unlikely that it will

18:27

result in an accident. I think there

18:29

have been adequate safeguards put in place,

18:31

you know, even before these incidents, but

18:33

even subsequently. There is a, you know,

18:35

large transport category aircraft that are operating

18:38

in Class A airspace, are all equipped

18:40

with TCAS, which

18:42

will ensure that there is not going to be

18:44

a collision or even a near miss between aircraft.

18:46

They're not going to come too close to each

18:49

other. Beyond that, there is

18:51

what is known as the CPDLC,

18:53

the Controller Pilot Data Link Communication,

18:56

which basically is like a text message

18:58

system, where, you know, rather than just

19:00

voice communication between an aircraft and air

19:03

traffic control, this is like a text

19:05

messaging system between them. And

19:07

the CPDLC obviously cannot be spooked like,

19:09

you know, a voice frequency can. So

19:12

the recommendation again for pilots operating in

19:14

Mogadishu is if you have any questions

19:16

about a voice instruction that's given to

19:18

you, confirm it via the CPDLC. And

19:21

I think since more and more airlines

19:23

have begun implementing this, you know, this

19:26

double checking and other procedural

19:28

aspects of it, we've seen a reduction

19:30

in the number of these incidents. And

19:32

I think, you know, it's irresponsible,

19:35

whoever is doing it, to give conflicting

19:37

instructions. But I think the aviation industry

19:39

is robust enough and has strong

19:41

enough safety practices that the risk of

19:44

this can be mitigated and minimized. Well,

19:46

the reason why we're talking about it is

19:48

because it seems like there are, you

19:50

know, it's becoming more dangerous because Somaliland

19:53

is claiming that an Emirates plane nearly

19:56

collided with an Ethiopian airline

19:58

flight on Sunday. So

20:00

I'm just wondering what's the answer to

20:02

this? What's the solution? I

20:04

think the solution for this is that

20:07

Somaliland and Somalia need to both start

20:09

acting like adults. They need to sit

20:11

down around the table and you're putting

20:13

innocent lives and jeopardy over a political

20:15

dispute. And while certainly you're entitled to

20:18

have your political views and to make

20:20

a point, that shouldn't be at the

20:22

cost of exposing innocent passengers on these

20:24

planes to risk, no matter how small

20:26

that risk may be. And

20:29

like a lot of countries that have just

20:31

come out of civil war, there tends to

20:33

be a confrontation first and then

20:35

negotiate attitude that is taken there. I

20:37

know that has definitely been true of

20:39

my experience doing business in Somalia. But

20:42

they've now got control of their airspace

20:44

back for the last seven to 10

20:46

years. And they need to start acting

20:48

responsibly like many other countries in the

20:51

international aviation community do when they have

20:53

disputes. So I have in

20:55

my notes here that you used to run Mogadishu

20:57

Airport. Is that true? Yes, it is.

20:59

I was running Mogadishu Airport for SK

21:01

International Group back in 2013, back

21:04

when it really was the wild, wild west. Right.

21:06

So running the airport, what does it mean?

21:08

We were in charge of all airport activities.

21:10

We basically lived on the airport property. We

21:12

would be up at 5.30 in the morning,

21:15

do a perimeter check, open the gates, let

21:17

the local staff and the passengers in. We

21:19

did the check-in, the loading of the flights.

21:22

Pretty much everything A to Z at

21:24

the airport. So yeah, that was an

21:26

interesting job. Yeah, because Somalia was

21:28

in an active war at the time, right?

21:30

It was much hairier than it

21:32

is now. And the airport was bonded very well.

21:35

It was definitely hairier than it is. I think we

21:37

were fortunate enough that 2013 was

21:39

beginning to see the beginnings of

21:41

stability. Electricity was coming back. There was

21:43

internet. There was a banking system beginning

21:45

to come back into action. And

21:48

obviously at the airport was the green zone.

21:50

We had the African Union and the United

21:52

Nations troops all based inside the airport green

21:55

zone. So it was relatively safe for us

21:57

where we were operating. Yes, we did have

21:59

very good periodic attacks from time to time.

22:01

But generally I found it to be a

22:03

very satisfying job because the small things that

22:05

we did all had a very big impact

22:07

in terms of reopening Somalia to

22:10

the world community and I'm very proud of

22:12

the work that our team did back then.

22:15

So Somalia doesn't really need

22:17

this particular argument to blow

22:19

up, right? It doesn't need the

22:22

airport to become a zone of

22:24

conflict again or anything? No, absolutely

22:26

not. And I think it is

22:28

very, very important for Somalia to

22:30

reconnect itself with the world via

22:32

aviation because Somalia does

22:34

not have very good ground infrastructure.

22:37

It's not that easy to get

22:39

from say Mogadishu to Garoue or

22:41

to Hariguesa or Bosaso or any

22:43

of the other secondary

22:45

cities in the country via

22:48

road links. There is zero rail

22:50

links. So we've

22:52

seen development of airports. A lot of

22:54

Somalis in the diaspora have invested heavily

22:57

in airport infrastructure all across the country

22:59

over the last decade. They've received aid

23:01

from various countries in the Middle East

23:03

and Asia, Turkey as well to help

23:05

develop these airports. So aviation

23:07

has a very important, in fact probably

23:09

an outsized role in terms of

23:12

helping relink Somalia both to itself as

23:14

well as to the outside world and

23:17

anything that slows down or

23:19

obstructs that progress being made cannot

23:21

be good for Somalia in general

23:23

and for the peace process as

23:26

well. It's person to

23:28

person ties and links between countries that

23:30

ensure stability and peace and

23:32

anything that is designed intentionally

23:34

to obstruct that it can

23:36

never be good. And that's

23:38

the aviation consultant, Sean Mendes. Now

23:48

we don't often use the word

23:50

adolescent to describe young people. We

23:53

talk about teenagers more frequently. They

23:56

seem to be the same thing but

23:58

they're actually slightly different. Adolescence,

24:01

according to the World Health Organization, refers

24:03

to people between the ages of 10

24:05

and 19. Teenagers

24:08

are between the ages of 13 and

24:10

19. And then we have

24:12

youth, and that definition starts at 15

24:15

and could go up to 35 and

24:18

even higher, would you believe. Anyway,

24:21

the reason why we are talking about

24:23

adolescence is because the second West Africa

24:26

Adolescent Girl Summit is underway in

24:28

Liberia as we speak. It

24:31

was first organized in 2022 with

24:33

support from the Global Fund for

24:35

Children. Around 300 young people from

24:37

around 12 West African countries

24:39

are attending. The first

24:41

one was also held in Liberia, and it's

24:43

meant to provide a forum for these young

24:46

people to talk about big things like female

24:48

genital mutilation, child marriage,

24:50

climate change, and human rights. This

24:53

year, about 300 people will be

24:55

attending from 12 different African

24:58

countries. But what's the summit

25:00

about, and why is it

25:02

in Liberia again this year? Let's

25:05

hear from Amy Atsu-David, Regional Co-Director

25:07

for the Global Fund for Children

25:09

in Africa. The first edition of

25:12

the Adolescent Girl Summit was held

25:14

in 2022 in Liberia. It

25:18

was a pilot that involved adolescent

25:20

girls and boys from Liberia and

25:23

Sierra Leone. We also

25:25

had a few adolescent youth who

25:27

came from Ethiopia to share their

25:29

experience with their peers in West

25:31

Africa. For this second edition,

25:34

it's going to happen in

25:36

Moroia, Liberia again, because Global

25:39

Fund for Children initiative in

25:41

West Africa focuses on Liberia,

25:44

Sierra Leone. Young

25:46

people decided that it should

25:48

be in Liberia because of

25:50

the availability of a space

25:52

that can hold all of

25:54

them, also the facilities for

25:56

them to connect, to play

25:58

around, and a mix of

26:01

factors. that makes Liberia conducive

26:03

for this summit, but for

26:05

the subsequent summit, the adolescent

26:07

will explore other countries. Taking

26:10

the lead are two youth

26:12

organizers, 16-year-old Joyce Imbiel from

26:15

Liberia and 18-year-old

26:17

Feva Unno from Nigeria.

26:20

What does the summit mean to them? Joyce

26:23

attended the first one back in 2022 in Monrovia.

26:27

The summit was inspiring, it

26:30

was transforming, it was us

26:32

and it was life-changing. The

26:35

former, very special, my name is

26:37

Joyce Howard-Tear, president of the AGS

26:39

2022. She

26:41

taught us so many things

26:43

and she encouraged us to do

26:45

more and she's willing to support

26:47

us. And tell us what's the

26:50

purpose of the summit? The summit is

26:52

there to empower girls and boys

26:54

or adolescents to push our voices

26:56

so that we can be able

26:58

to speak for ourselves, especially girls

27:00

on board where they can have

27:02

a free space to share their

27:04

stories and find a solution. So

27:06

the countries that you've invited, was there

27:08

a specific reason why you invited them?

27:11

So we decided we invite more

27:13

countries on board because I think

27:15

we are facing the same issues,

27:17

especially in Africa. So that's why

27:19

we decided to invite more African countries.

27:21

We pray and go there, the next

27:23

AGS, we should even have right people

27:25

among us. We can even do it

27:27

in another country. So tell me between

27:30

2022 and now, what do you think

27:32

in a concrete way you've achieved? I

27:34

was shy, personally before, I used to

27:36

be very, very shy when people are

27:38

talking. If I'm talking, I want to cry. You're

27:41

doing very well now. Yeah,

27:44

I'm very, yeah. So confidence, you've gained confidence

27:46

to be able to speak your mind and

27:49

to express what you want in the world.

27:51

Would you say that's fair? Yeah. Right.

27:54

And how was that achieved at the conference? Did you stand up

27:56

and speak? When I saw my fellow peers

27:58

discussing about... should have fed in there.

28:01

And I saw her as a free

28:03

space and so I was like, well,

28:05

why am I shy? I should be

28:07

happy and you know more spoken, saying

28:09

things I fed in Missouri, I just

28:11

got a one morning and I said, I won't be shy.

28:13

So good. At the AGS, I was there,

28:15

I was one of the MC of the

28:17

day and I was like, wow, I did this. I

28:20

promised myself that I would do more. What's

28:22

your next thing? I'm taking part

28:24

in my community engagements, when people

28:26

are having community meetings. I just

28:29

want to keep myself busy

28:31

doing positive things, serving

28:33

a good example to girls

28:35

and girls. Nigeria is part

28:37

of this year's summit and FAVR

28:39

is attending. I'm one of the

28:42

Adalessens representing my country in Nigeria,

28:45

so I'm among the original Adalessens

28:47

panel. And what are you taking

28:49

to the conference? What do you

28:52

want to tell them about Nigeria's

28:54

adolescent girls? One of my takes

28:56

to the conference is first the

28:59

issues that are prevalent in my

29:01

country, Nigeria. And another take is

29:04

that as a representative of Nigeria,

29:06

Adalessens girls do have the

29:08

capability to voice out their

29:11

concerns, to be strong and

29:13

have rights so certain traditional

29:15

norms that affect our daily meeting, our

29:17

wellbeing. So what are the issues that

29:20

you want the world to know about?

29:22

The prevalence issues of

29:24

lack of comprehensive sexual

29:26

education, teenage pregnancy, early

29:28

and child marriage and

29:31

female genital cutting. Right. I noticed

29:34

that you call it female genital

29:36

cutting. Other people call

29:38

it female genital mutilation. It's a

29:40

very big issue in West Africa.

29:43

Is it banned in Nigeria? No,

29:45

not yet. We have a

29:48

choice to address

29:50

policy makers, to

29:52

adjust the issues, but

29:54

there are still local communities

29:56

who still practice female

29:59

genital cutting. It's a good

30:01

thing because it's a traditional non-state.

30:03

Right. This is your first time going

30:06

to the conference, right? And it's the second

30:08

conference that there's been. What have you heard

30:10

about the first one? I heard

30:12

it was very empowering. We had

30:15

lots of testimonies of adolescents

30:17

who were able to stand

30:19

out after this summit. And

30:22

I also learned that the adolescents

30:24

who attended, it's better

30:26

to do many things and move

30:28

by birds and try to engage

30:30

their fellow adolescents into voicing out

30:32

their concerns and issues surrounding them. And

30:35

what do you want the world to

30:37

understand about adolescent girls after

30:39

this conference? Before now

30:42

or currently there's still like

30:44

a misconception about adolescents in

30:47

general. I want to

30:49

speak of adolescent girls being too

30:51

young, too young to make decisions

30:54

or try to

30:56

create decisions in general. So at

30:58

the end of this summit, I

31:01

want to prove that the

31:04

needs is actually right. And

31:06

other disabled girls have hard-made

31:08

decisions. They have the capabilities

31:10

to know what they want

31:12

and try to address their

31:14

life along the way. Thank you very much.

31:17

It's been really nice talking to you. Thank

31:19

you. Fevar Unno there from

31:22

Nigeria and before her, Joyce

31:24

Yimbiel from Liberia, talking to

31:26

us about the Adolescent Girls

31:28

Summit underway in Monrovia. Focus

31:33

in Africa was put together by

31:35

Yvette Waguirra-Maria, Sunita Nahar and Stefania

31:38

Okereke here in London. Poor

31:40

Baty Binga was in charge of quality control.

31:43

Nick Randall made sure we got on

31:45

air and online on time. Our

31:48

editors are Andre Lombard and Alice

31:50

Mudenghi. I'm Autry Brown. We'll

31:52

talk again next time. used

32:00

as a weapon of war. In none

32:02

of these villages there was any

32:04

piped clean water for people. A

32:06

nation in the grip of criminal

32:09

gangs. How bad does it have

32:11

to get before the international community

32:13

reacts? A country showing signs of

32:15

friction. Right now it's done. Things

32:17

are really quite dark. The nation

32:19

is divided. The mistrusts transform. The

32:22

global jigsaw from the BBC World Service is

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back for a new series. Learn

32:27

now by searching for the explanation wherever

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you get your BBC papers.