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Tickets are available now. visit

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starcast.com for more information. Is

1:31

Gonna Thompson. And you're listening to Foley

1:33

his paw. And of course we couldn't do

1:36

it without the Hall of Famer the hardcore

1:38

legend of self Mister Mick Foley make. How

1:40

are you man? I'm doing great thanks to

1:42

Conrad and I feel good about the decisions

1:44

I just made. You were here are was

1:47

I said: I'm going to leave the fanny

1:49

pack on. These. Out. You

1:52

know it's one of those hardcore episodes were

1:54

going. Talk about Royal Rumble. Two thousand and

1:56

one of if not my favorite match. Of

1:58

your entire. Career. But. before Before

2:00

we do, boy there's a lot of news and notes. Let's

2:02

start right at the beginning. Since you and

2:04

I recorded, I saw you had a chance to catch up with

2:06

the funker. How is Mr. Funker these days? I did. You

2:09

know, Terry was in great spirits. Dick

2:12

Murdock's son and daughter were there.

2:15

Terry's daughter, one of his daughters was

2:17

there. And

2:19

it was like, you know, like a celebratory

2:22

atmosphere. We were

2:24

recording for a show,

2:26

Dark Side of the Ring. But

2:29

it was a happy atmosphere. Like

2:32

if they're going to get the Dark Side of,

2:34

you know, this is Abdullah the Butcher, who we

2:36

just talked about in our last episode. Somebody

2:38

else can cover that part. This

2:41

is about some, you know, some great

2:43

experiences we both had with Abdullah. And

2:46

then Terry and I watched the finals

2:48

of the King of the Deathmatch tournament

2:50

together. Wow. And that

2:52

was really interesting. So I

2:55

think I wrote, I can't remember if it was a 500 mile or

2:57

400 mile. I

3:00

have a circle around Amarillo in

3:03

my mind. And any time I'm

3:05

within 400 or 500 miles, I'm

3:07

going to make that trip to see the

3:09

funker. So I happen to be, it worked

3:11

out good. I got to visit my daughter

3:13

in Colorado because I had, I

3:15

would like to think as a dad, I would

3:17

have been there anyway, regardless of how close I

3:20

was. But I was

3:22

about seven hours from Albuquerque. And

3:24

that sounds, I know that sounds crazy to, you know,

3:26

a lot of people out there, you know, you

3:30

know, a 90 minute drive is considered,

3:32

you know, it's kind of lengthy. Yes.

3:35

But for us, you know, I think it's a blessing being

3:37

in the wrestling world. Like seven hours? Yeah,

3:39

absolutely. I'm making that drive. And

3:42

then Amarillo was only four hours

3:44

from Albuquerque. And so that

3:46

was a no brainer. So it was,

3:48

it was really nice to see Terry. I don't

3:51

know when the next time I'm out that way

3:53

is. I'll check. I'm

3:55

doing a convention in Austin, Texas, the

3:57

beginning of September. I'll have to do

3:59

the circles. And you know what even if it is further

4:02

than 500 that's a pretty easy

4:04

one-way flight I believe so I'll

4:07

be checking up on Terry in September

4:09

as well speaking of appearances The rumor

4:11

is you might be in San Antonio

4:14

I will be there. I will

4:16

be there. I was a late entry. I

4:19

know this is still forbidden territory Although

4:21

it seems I'll go on

4:23

record saying it seems kind of silly to

4:26

deny that I am part I'll just say

4:28

I'm part of the upcoming season

4:30

because if WWE airs a trailer and I'm

4:32

in it Right, I think that is at

4:35

least room to say I'm in it Yeah

4:37

Now, you know we you and I know

4:39

my involvement spend substantial and that may lead

4:41

to the next Subject was whether

4:44

or not I have heat with WWE Should

4:47

we jump right in? Let's jump right into

4:49

it Of course as you and I are

4:51

recording this we're one day removed from the

4:53

30th anniversary of Raw of course this weekend

4:55

Everybody's talking about the Royal Rumble table the

4:57

rumble talk for a moment But

5:00

our old pal Vince Russo had

5:02

a theory as to why you weren't on the

5:04

30th anniversary show with so many other legends were

5:06

And he thought maybe

5:08

the micker had some heat what gives?

5:12

Absolutely not I will

5:15

say I have had some heat over the years

5:18

I've there may be you know, maybe if you

5:20

polled everyone in WWE Maybe

5:22

I have heat with someone that I'm not aware of

5:25

but the best of my knowledge like everything

5:27

is going really well I'm involved to some

5:29

extent with this show on WWE

5:33

I've spent more time in Connecticut,

5:36

you know, it's not necessarily WWE headquarters We're

5:38

right up the road working with WWE personnel

5:41

on a show. I'm really proud of

5:43

really really proud of this but there's

5:45

an extravagant amount of traveling because

5:48

I have to Travel to

5:50

where and when to where the talent

5:52

is available when they are available So

5:56

it's not like logistically a

5:58

loop is being set up. It's not like like they're going,

6:00

okay what's best for I've got two events what's

6:02

best for Mike? Basically

6:04

you know if I if

6:07

I can visit the milk

6:09

truck in Modesto, California I

6:11

got to go out and and see that

6:13

milk truck when Kurt Angle is available. And

6:16

you know Bill Goldberg is a man of you know

6:18

he's got a lot of things on

6:20

the plate so I've got to go out to

6:22

Kansas when Bill's available. Not because he lives there

6:25

but that's because the

6:27

that's that's where our

6:30

collector is. And so just

6:32

for example there was one three-day stretch

6:34

where I went from Florida to

6:36

Modesto, California, Modesto,

6:39

California to Boston, Boston

6:43

to Hutchinson, Kansas which is

6:45

not a direct flight. And

6:48

then back to Florida and so you're literally put

6:50

in like 30 flying

6:52

hours together by the time you're

6:54

done and especially if something's not

6:56

non-stop you know I always it

7:00

can be very time-consuming. So

7:02

I always consider the time door-to-door.

7:04

Yes. So that someone I remember

7:06

like WME used to say that

7:09

it was like a 16-hour flight

7:11

to Afghanistan. Maybe once

7:13

you get everybody to California at

7:15

16 hours but door-to-door

7:17

it's about a 40-hour trip.

7:19

Wow. So for example

7:22

visiting Steve Austin at his

7:24

ranch is more

7:26

time-consuming than going to other countries. It

7:29

just is about a 13-hour one-way trip

7:31

and I'm glad to do it which

7:33

might explain why Steve wasn't on RAW

7:37

either. Right. And that's not a matter of heat

7:39

that's just a matter probably of a guy saying

7:41

I don't want to travel 26 hours

7:44

round trip especially on

7:48

the 30th anniversary of RAW like

7:51

every anniversary falls in that third

7:53

week of January where

7:55

they have to me the second biggest show

7:57

of the year to promote. So

8:00

you know going in that there's

8:02

only room for like three speaking

8:04

roles and that everyone else

8:06

is in the poker game. So

8:09

that's a long way to

8:11

go when you've been on the road for

8:13

25 days or whatever the case is

8:16

and you just want to see your family. So

8:18

in the interest of full disclosure, like I've

8:21

visited my mom, that's a four day block,

8:23

but I'm a son, I'm trying to be

8:26

there for her so I include

8:28

that. And even now, right before we took

8:30

the air, I was trying

8:32

to change my

8:34

rental car schedule

8:36

because I realized

8:39

that if I changed

8:41

my schedule and instead of

8:43

flying out of Huntsville to

8:46

Chicago for the

8:48

next episode that I

8:51

may or may not be hosting, that

8:55

if I chose instead to drive eight and

8:58

a half hours, I could

9:00

see my family and still kind of

9:02

be there by the time. And

9:05

so that's the decision I made is

9:07

you put a lot of value on that time at

9:09

home, especially when you're in like a four

9:11

or five month block where you haven't been home

9:13

very much. And I just felt

9:15

like I needed those two days with my

9:17

family more than the show needed me. And

9:20

besides that point, I did

9:22

say to John Cone, I said, John, I said,

9:26

I've also got that way. We've got

9:28

the show to promote in the 25th

9:30

year anniversary of Helen Estelle. The

9:33

last time I was on, WWE programming was

9:36

a little over two years ago for The

9:38

Undertaker's tribute. And

9:40

I think the last time I had a speaking

9:43

role was a year before that. So

9:45

if it's my first time in three years, I

9:48

just feel like there's more of a contribution that

9:50

I could make if

9:52

it comes to helping promote the

9:54

show or something that perhaps Undertaker and

9:56

I can do together to honor the

9:58

25th anniversary. of

10:00

the cell match and all that went

10:03

into the decision-making process and

10:05

I came up with the idea that it would be better for me

10:07

to be at home for that particular

10:09

show but there's no heat. No. I

10:11

enjoyed the show but like I

10:13

said there's like three speaking roles there for

10:15

the legends and it's a lot of fun

10:17

but I just decided it'd be better for

10:19

everyone if I just you

10:22

know took a pass and showed up a couple months later.

10:25

Not to say that we're gonna get

10:27

into the rumor and innuendo business but

10:29

there's a lot of talk about what

10:31

to expect this weekend and as we

10:33

get into WrestleMania season there's

10:36

Nick Kine doing a podcast

10:38

denying any knowledge he wouldn't

10:41

commit one way or another as to what

10:43

the Rock Wooder wouldn't do then we saw

10:45

a report that... Wait his picture's not on

10:47

this? What's up with that? Maybe the Black

10:49

Adam promotion's over. I don't know but

10:52

anyway check it out old Dwayne doing the best

10:54

he can man. He's getting by. There's

10:57

another report that says he wouldn't be able to

10:59

make the schedule work. He wouldn't be able to

11:02

get into quote-unquote wrestling shape and time. Then

11:04

we saw a report just earlier this week

11:06

that perhaps Stone Cold had a

11:08

big money offer to do something at WrestleMania. I

11:10

think Sean Ross Sapp thought maybe it was him

11:12

versus Roman Reigns and I think Dave Meltzer

11:15

said no he was actually offered Brock Lesnar.

11:17

Would you be surprised to see Rock and

11:20

Austin at WrestleMania? Well I'll be very surprised.

11:22

I'd be really happy. You know

11:24

Steve was surprised... I don't mind

11:26

if I'm supposed to be talking

11:28

about seeing Steve. That's

11:30

supposed to be a big surprise but I

11:33

think they actually show us on the trailer.

11:35

Yes. You know and it's beautiful snow-covered landscape.

11:37

I woke up I did have a day

11:39

off in a hotel. I

11:42

got there was 57 degrees you

11:44

know in the wilds of Nevada

11:48

where Steve lives and the next day it was

11:50

the heaviest snowfall as far

11:52

as the thickest snowflakes I've ever seen.

11:55

This was the same day that Jeremy

11:57

Renner was injured not far

11:59

from... where I was. So that snow was

12:01

really coming down, made for a

12:03

beautiful landscape. But Steve was surprised when

12:05

I told him he, at least

12:07

he, if he wasn't surprised, he did

12:10

a good job of feigning surprise. When

12:12

I told him his match was my

12:14

favorite of the previous mania. And he

12:17

was like, why is that kid? I was like, well,

12:19

everyone wants to see you. You

12:21

over delivered. Yes. Owens did

12:23

a remarkable job of putting

12:25

that thing together. Without one fate,

12:27

he didn't even see Steve,

12:29

right? I mean, Steve did

12:31

a video and it

12:33

was up to Kevin. It was some of the

12:36

greatest verbiage, you know,

12:38

just incredible. Just describing

12:40

the landscape of Texas being flat

12:42

and uninspired. I love it. It's

12:44

beautiful. And so Steve was surprised,

12:46

but I don't think he should have been because

12:48

I think, you know, the feedback

12:51

was almost universally glowing. But

12:54

I would be surprised to see both of them.

12:57

I'll tell you what I think has been

13:00

missing from the Rumble because it's all you

13:02

always want to juggle, you know, the mainstays,

13:04

the surprises, the

13:06

up and coming talent. I

13:09

thought last year, unless I'm completely wrong,

13:11

confusing, confusing it with another Rumble, was

13:14

lacking a little bit because there were none

13:16

of those surprises. Yeah, I agree. And

13:19

there was none of the NXT

13:21

talent either. Going back

13:23

a few years to the first time I

13:25

saw Rhea Ripley and even my wife who's

13:27

seen just about everything like, who is that?

13:30

Like she stood out and had

13:32

star power written all over her. You know,

13:34

we see that on a weekly basis now.

13:37

By the way, Tom

13:41

had a big... Oh my gosh. It's just

13:43

tremendous. It's just tremendous. Yes. Here's a

13:45

guy that a year ago I would

13:47

have said, oh man, I know he's

13:49

a nice young man. He's Rhea's son,

13:52

but what are you going to do with the

13:54

guy? And now he's a highlight of the show,

13:56

you know, the teardrops and the hard time he

13:58

did. It's just a great... It's

14:00

a great storyline and a lot of

14:02

fun to watch. And I'd be remiss,

14:05

since we're talking about fun to watch, if

14:07

we didn't mention the trial of Sami Zayn.

14:09

Unbelievable. This guy is

14:11

the gift that keeps

14:13

giving. He's the wrestler of the year the

14:15

last year. So storyline-wise, you're exactly right. He

14:17

hit the nail on the head. I

14:20

love the fact. So

14:22

subtleties, even if they didn't point out that

14:24

Paul was just looking at Roman the whole

14:27

time, Roman was looking at the screen, because

14:30

Paul went out there, Paul Heyman, for

14:32

the uninitiated, Paul

14:34

went out there and he

14:37

firmly in the fire Sami camp,

14:40

or revenge on Sami. And then I love

14:43

that Jimmy comes up, he

14:45

comes in as the defense, and it's

14:47

this remark, it's really good TV, really

14:50

good TV. And now Paul

14:52

is, I think, feeling the

14:54

vulnerability, because he's gone out

14:56

there and he's been overruled by the tribal chief.

15:00

And you just have a, it's a

15:02

great storyline. Sami is so much fun.

15:05

He always delivers in the ring,

15:07

always has. But he's become

15:09

one of the best characters, and has been

15:11

for, I'd say, a handful of years. So

15:14

Sami Zayn is your wrestler of the year

15:16

in WWE? I think the last year, I

15:18

mean, my match of the year last year

15:20

was the Cody Rhodes cage match with Seth

15:22

Rollins. What a story that was with the

15:24

torn peck. I thought you were gonna go

15:26

with Johnny

15:29

Knoxville. I think that

15:32

is the most underrated WrestleMania match last

15:34

year. I know that there's, it's

15:36

not going to be compared to Stone Cold or

15:39

some of the hard-hitting classics, but

15:41

that exceeded all of my expectations. And I

15:43

think Kevin Owens had

15:45

the great tweet where he said something

15:47

to the effect of every second of

15:49

that rule. Yes. And,

15:52

oh, it was fun. When I talk to you, I

15:54

don't know if you mentioned this, off-air

15:56

or on-air. I was like, wasn't that a great mania? Not

15:58

like a Kool-Aid guy, but just like. Like a

16:00

guy who had watched it for two nights and

16:03

really enjoyed himself. Sorry about me in the

16:05

third person or

16:07

second person. But you said it was

16:09

fun. So you weren't with it.

16:12

It was great. But it was definitely fun and

16:14

I had some great moments. I

16:16

think the decision to make it a

16:18

two night, a two day, it's so

16:20

good. And I think I've

16:22

expressed my opinion that it's almost impossible

16:24

to have that classic match at the

16:26

end of a seven hour show. The

16:29

crowd's just dead and you just need that.

16:31

I don't care how good the

16:34

match itself is, you need that intangible

16:36

which is the magic element of a

16:38

hot crowd or else it's

16:41

not going to reach that level. It

16:43

just can't. So I'm really excited

16:45

about the prospect of one of those

16:47

guys. I want a couple

16:49

surprises. I

16:52

was really lucky that I was one of those surprises in 2008

16:54

and 2012. I

16:57

think in 2008, Roddy was in it and

17:00

Snooka was in it. We

17:02

like those surprises. I think that's been missing.

17:04

At least last year was missing. So I'm hoping

17:06

for a great rumble. The

17:09

reason I'm in San Antonio is

17:11

because I have

17:13

one last day of on

17:17

location shooting to do outside

17:19

of San Antonio and then we probably

17:21

have a couple extra days left in

17:24

the studio to do wrap arounds or

17:26

pickups or whatever we call them. As

17:29

long as I'm going to be there, my

17:32

dear friend Lita, fellow Hall of

17:34

Famer mentioned that she and Trish were doing a

17:36

convention and I was like, as

17:38

long as I'm there. You've

17:41

seen me at these things. I genuinely

17:43

like these conventions.

17:46

I know it's not everybody's

17:48

cup of tea. It's not. It

17:50

can be really difficult. I remember

17:53

Beverly DiAngelo did

17:55

her first Comic Con and

17:57

she wrote to her... brother

18:00

and just said she was wiped

18:02

out you know just one

18:05

day in it's it can be really difficult

18:07

to be on for such a long

18:09

period of time but if you

18:11

genuinely like your fans

18:13

like I do and and

18:15

I do I am not opposed

18:17

to making some money but

18:20

I if I didn't have a good time I wouldn't

18:22

be doing that's right I try to keep it in

18:24

moderation so the schedule coming up is like two a

18:26

month but I really enjoy them

18:28

and I'll enjoy seeing people in San

18:30

Antonio so if you're in the area

18:33

please stop by and visit the table

18:35

I will exceed your expectations our

18:37

friends at Russell Kahn Michael Vakicchio and company putting

18:39

it together we've got a graphic up on our

18:42

YouTube right now with all the information and we'll

18:44

be sure to tweet it out on our account

18:46

Foley is pod I also want

18:48

to ask about another member of the

18:50

rumble before we talk about more current stuff and

18:52

maybe one other piece of news we should address

18:55

yeah we saw the the wonderful

18:57

return videos promoting the return of Cody

18:59

road yeah he's gonna be back in

19:02

action it felt reminiscent of Triple H's

19:04

return in 2002 the plot

19:06

there yep and to

19:08

show you how

19:10

effective you know the

19:15

WWE or in wrestling in general you

19:17

know the visual process can be to

19:20

this day I think people remember the

19:22

beautiful David yes is it

19:24

really touched people and you saw how

19:26

hard this guy was working Cody was

19:28

one of the gutsiest performances you know

19:30

in recent memory it remind you know

19:32

like my homes with the high ankle

19:34

sprain you know gutting it out

19:36

like these are great performances Cody you know

19:39

with an even worse injury even though it's

19:41

in a an atmosphere where you can work

19:44

around and emphasize like we're we have

19:46

that luxury that doesn't take

19:48

away from the fact it was an

19:51

incredible gutsy performance and I would be

19:53

absolutely fine with Cody winning that rumble

19:55

and going on to face the

19:57

opponent of his choice I would be very

19:59

cool with that I sort of like in

20:01

Cody's cage match performance with the

20:04

torn pec to Kurt Shilling with

20:06

the bloody sock on the back I was

20:08

there that night Yankee Stadium. It was such

20:10

a moment in sports history and you felt

20:12

like you're watching something that Shouldn't

20:15

be but it was and it was fantastic and I

20:17

wondered from your perspective You know, I just want to

20:19

tell you since I was there and I watched Our

20:23

shilling took a

20:25

little something Hahahaha Got

20:28

a little he didn't get hints and shaving

20:31

helper Hey, let's talk about

20:33

Cody because you mentioned a minute ago.

20:35

You really like and missed the surprises

20:37

last year Yeah, no surprise here. We

20:39

announced ahead of time, but the video

20:41

was so well done. I don't know

20:43

if that's Puccinelli or

20:45

Jeremy Borash or who helped put that together, but

20:47

it was phenomenal Yeah, and it did remind me

20:49

of the old hunter video from 20 years ago

20:52

or maybe 21 now But

20:54

I'm curious from your perspective Would

20:57

Cody have been a surprise or

20:59

did everybody kind of expect it either?

21:01

Yeah. Well, I think it's a juggling

21:04

act You want the surprises Cody

21:07

might be too big to be a surprise.

21:09

Although there have been huge surprises I think

21:11

you need to get people excited about

21:13

the rumble on one hand your surprises don't

21:16

happen. I mean we've got them You

21:19

know quite a cache of legendary

21:22

wrestlers to pick from if

21:24

you remember a few years ago 25th anniversary It

21:27

was great to see so many familiar faces But

21:29

about half the women that we saw showed up

21:31

on the rumble where it wasn't nearly the surprise

21:34

It would have been if we hadn't seen them

21:36

six days earlier. There you go. So again, it's

21:38

that Delicate juggling act. I

21:41

think we only saw one female Legend

21:44

right Medusa. Yeah, a lot of plays

21:46

the only one I

21:49

wonder what the deal was there and why WWE

21:51

did not know I might now I've got

21:53

heat for real Why weren't there more

21:55

women on the show? Um, well, I

21:57

think the rumor is there was a lot of stuff that was cut for

21:59

time including the ladies cage match. That

22:01

first hour was... So that was what

22:04

I said when I

22:06

was in bad need of a shower. Bad

22:08

need. I couldn't show up

22:10

and do this to you and Grillo. I appreciate

22:12

that. You know, I am trying to save the

22:15

earth by using less detergent and I think I've

22:17

been effective in that one-man campaign, but

22:19

it was time. You know, the dogs are barking

22:21

as they say. And

22:24

I'd asked the kids to record the match and

22:26

when I came out they said it was over.

22:29

And the first thing I said was it was

22:31

probably cut for time. Which is a

22:33

shame because it was the first cage match and...

22:36

It was like a four? Yeah, yeah. I think

22:38

the ladies were well. Yeah, 19 years they said. So that

22:40

was a shame. I'm excited to see. I

22:42

assume at some point we'll get some sort of make good

22:44

on that. But from

22:46

what I understand that first hour things

22:49

just ran long. And that's

22:52

unfortunate, but it kind of

22:54

is what it is. I do want to bring up

22:56

something else before we talk about Royal

22:58

Rumble 2000. We

23:01

lost a member of our wrestling

23:03

community in the most horrendous,

23:05

horrible way possible. Che Brisco lost

23:07

his life last week. His

23:10

little girls are still in a big fight. We'll

23:12

throw up the link below so you can go

23:15

ahead and make a donation to his family if

23:17

you're so inclined to do so. But

23:20

man, talk about a guy who was maybe at

23:22

the peak of his career and now gone way,

23:24

way too soon. I'm curious what you

23:26

thought of his work and if you had a chance

23:28

to meet or spend any time with Mr. Briscoe. I

23:30

didn't know either Jay or Mark that

23:33

well. But I

23:35

saw them a number of

23:37

times over the years. I did a

23:39

little article. I think the first time I saw them was 2005, I

23:41

believe, or 2006. I

23:46

had helped Carrie, the

23:49

ring of honor owner, find a building on

23:51

Long Island. It was placed about 10 minutes

23:53

from my house. I knew

23:55

the guy who was the events coordinator.

23:57

He ran a world class haunted attraction.

24:00

Action there and so I felt good that here

24:02

was a company. I really enjoyed working for I

24:04

was able to land them a good building And

24:07

then I went to the show and I even

24:09

dropped an elbow on Jimmy rave from the ring

24:11

apron You know I was I was feeling it

24:14

And that was the first time I saw those

24:16

I believe you know it may turn out I

24:19

met them in 2004 and can't remember it remember

24:21

it, but I do remember like just

24:23

how enthusiastic they were passionate about

24:25

their work and It

24:29

was a surprise in some ways that

24:31

they never got the Larger

24:34

stage and I think

24:36

that comes down to one ill-advised tweet

24:38

nine years ago So I think there's

24:41

a lesson for the younger wrestlers like when

24:43

in doubt Yeah,

24:45

feel it out because I think

24:47

you can say that's the only reason

24:50

that those guys were not in WWE

24:52

because they were Characters yes in addition

24:54

to you know being amazing in-ring workers

24:57

And I saw them from the front

24:59

row at Rick's last match That

25:03

they they worked with a who's who of

25:05

the biggest some of the biggest stars and

25:07

to show you how highly thought they were

25:09

not that you can ever express your your

25:12

value on someone by your contribution

25:14

to a fundraiser, but Typically

25:17

like when you kick in a

25:19

thousand dollars That's on the high end of

25:21

what you know his co-worker you know co-workers

25:24

do and Jericho contributed

25:28

$15,000 Kevin Owens like ten there were a

25:30

number of people that donated really

25:32

sizable amounts of money I don't care how

25:35

much money you're making 15 grand 10 grand

25:38

That's a lot of money and these guys had

25:40

no hesitation Because they

25:42

thought so highly of

25:44

both Jay and his brother I thought

25:47

these guys you know they could work

25:49

with anybody that's the thing they could

25:51

work any style And they'd go to Japan

25:53

you know they're going to have a good

25:55

match. Oh, yeah I was actually googling trying

25:57

to find which of the briskos the

26:00

elbow off the ring apron. Do you

26:02

know which one it was? Mark. Mark because I

26:04

hey. That's a better elbow than I dropped. I

26:06

wish it wasn't. Maybe

26:10

I had one or two that were in that category but he

26:12

was a better athlete doing something

26:15

you know that looked really impressive but

26:17

even more impressive with added athleticism and

26:20

I always knew that and that's the

26:22

guy who ended up doing

26:24

the better flying elbow than I did. I

26:26

also saw you know they had a

26:28

wanted shirt and I'm not sure I ever

26:31

spoke about it. I know the way I felt about it and

26:33

the way I felt about it was hey these

26:35

guys have worked so hard they're

26:38

among many who have given more to the

26:40

business and the business is given back to

26:42

them. If they can make

26:44

some money on a shirt you know

26:46

that that I was similar

26:49

to mine that's no issue

26:51

for me you know that's no problem

26:53

at all. I have way more of

26:55

an issue with bootleg shirts you

26:57

know than I do of something that could

26:59

be considered a little bit. Yeah yeah and

27:01

homage but these guys were

27:04

tremendous workers.

27:06

Like I said I didn't get

27:08

to know them very well on a personal level.

27:10

Last time I spent any time with them was

27:12

at the the Moxley

27:15

Nick Gage match where we

27:17

just had one of those small dress rooms. It was

27:19

just I think it was the

27:21

four of us. Briscoe is me and Effie you

27:24

know so that's that those are

27:26

some disparate personalities in there but

27:28

I always had the deepest admiration

27:30

for them as workers and it

27:32

seems to me like they

27:35

had the deepest the respect of

27:37

their colleagues and

27:40

man my prayers go out to

27:42

those two girls. Yes. So

27:45

even if people are looking at

27:47

the amount raised and that's incredible.

27:50

Keep in mind that the

27:53

father you know the breadwinner has been

27:55

taken from them. The girls

27:57

might face substantial and length

28:00

medical challenges and

28:02

so I do encourage people whether

28:05

they knew Jay or not, whether they were

28:09

big advocates of his work or not, to kick

28:11

in a little something because it all adds up.

28:14

It does add up. We'll throw up that link

28:17

again here if you're so inclined to make a

28:19

donation. One last thing before

28:21

we jump into our topic. I know we filibustered a

28:23

lot but I'm going to put you on the spot.

28:25

What do you think wins the rumble this Saturday? Are

28:30

there any surprises by

28:32

Steve or Dwayne? I'm

28:35

going with Cody. The

28:37

Rumble is such a fun event. There

28:40

were a few years where people were really down about

28:45

the outcome. I

28:48

did write an article a

28:50

few years ago warning WWE that they might be

28:53

on the verge of it becoming

28:55

just another show. Whether that was a

28:57

real warning with some

29:02

substance to it or not, they've

29:05

turned it around and they've made the Rumble a

29:08

great deal of fun. We know

29:10

going in that even though there's 30 people, there's

29:12

five or six people who could win but

29:15

it's that amazing suspension of disbelief.

29:18

I think by and large WWE

29:20

does a really good job of

29:23

creating something special with both the

29:25

men and women. I'm picking Cody. We

29:31

were called back in Philadelphia a handful of

29:33

years ago when Roman won, the crowd really

29:35

wanted Daniel Bryan to win. I guess

29:38

the question is if you're WWE,

29:41

do you even risk that by putting Sami

29:43

in the Rumble or do you keep

29:45

him out of the match? I wonder

29:47

if Cody wins and fans see

29:50

Sami and get excited. There's

29:53

so much you can do with Sami in the

29:55

Rumble with the

29:57

pieces revolving around him. Ricky

30:01

you know the solo

30:04

and the usos I think there's quite a

30:06

bit you can do there and I

30:10

I would love to see Sammy I

30:12

remember that rumble in Philadelphia

30:14

because three of my children were

30:16

going and a snowstorm was threatening to come in

30:19

and I had a lot more experience driving

30:21

and inclement weather than my oldest

30:23

son does so I drove them there we

30:27

dined at Victor's in Philadelphia which

30:29

was Adrian's in the Rocky Balboa

30:31

movie okay so that was a

30:33

good experience and basically I was

30:35

dropping my kids off at the

30:38

rumble and then picking them up and

30:40

when I went to pick them up I didn't

30:43

need to know who won to

30:45

know that fans weren't happy because

30:47

I could read it in the body language

30:49

people walking with their heads down kind of

30:51

like kicking at the ground and

30:54

I don't think we're going to get something

30:57

like that oh no chance this

30:59

year I'd love to see

31:01

I you know I'm still a huge

31:03

Ripley fan I'd love to see her

31:05

win the women's rumble because she's been

31:08

doing Debbie a run in WWE is

31:10

a marathon not a sprint yes and

31:12

man this has been a nice leg

31:14

of that race you know with

31:17

her in Judgment Day but

31:19

I think it's that time for a

31:21

revision of a top heel push

31:25

and so I'd like to see her win

31:27

that thing I'd love to see

31:29

her and either one

31:32

would be a great

31:36

would be a great fit I think we've

31:38

seen Charlotte and Rhea before at WrestleMania but

31:41

that was empty arena and that was one

31:43

where I really thought

31:45

Rhea needed the win more than Charlotte did and

31:50

I don't and it took her a while to get

31:52

her momentum back so

31:54

if she did it's

31:56

a different type of Rhea now it would be a

31:59

great I think either one's a great

32:01

matchup. So I'm looking forward to both of them. And

32:03

I think it's safe to say that

32:05

the women have done an amazing job

32:08

in their rumbles since

32:10

they started. And it really makes

32:12

for a great show when you know you have

32:15

these two, you can almost count on them being

32:17

epic. And then we just

32:19

need a few good matches in between

32:21

to make it a great, it's no

32:23

longer PPV right? No, it's a premium

32:25

live event. Premium live event. PLE. There

32:28

you go. And then we'll have a couple

32:30

of other turns. This is maybe my favorite match of

32:32

yours of your career. What does it rank for you

32:34

all the time? Me and Triple H? Yes, sir. Top

32:38

five for sure. Wow. Yeah,

32:40

top five for sure. I think I ranked it

32:42

in Foley's Good, probably

32:44

at number three. Somewhere around there.

32:47

Ah, man, it was... Ah,

32:51

I'm not just saying this because Triple H is

32:53

in charge. Because I've said this before, he's a

32:55

great ring general. Because that was a

32:58

time when I had... Vince

33:03

and I had decided that I was retiring

33:05

in October. My

33:09

knees were shot, you know, and I'd been

33:11

leaning with my head when my body slowed

33:13

down. And that was having an effect. And

33:17

when I explained that to Vince, he said, you

33:19

just had your last match. That was a match

33:21

with me and Al against the

33:24

Hollies, Crash and Bob.

33:26

And then Steve was injured. Steve

33:28

hurt his neck. And we pulled

33:30

together as a team and decided to

33:33

have this one last run. And

33:36

so Triple H was operating with somebody. Me,

33:40

my self-confidence had

33:42

been eroded a little bit. I did my part

33:44

to get into much better shape. I

33:49

had about six or seven weeks. I dropped a

33:51

bunch of weight, got into much better cardio shape.

33:54

But I still needed somebody to

33:56

push me. And That's what

33:58

Triple H does. On

34:00

friendly ground or be the first to

34:02

admit has got a better reaction that

34:05

night. Combination eyes is huge so I

34:07

think that was it's ah a dropped

34:09

the ball for Debbie Debbie in their

34:11

history but say everything seemed to go

34:13

right. you know everything was there for

34:16

us that night. It's. At the

34:18

Garden which is always special for anyone

34:20

but especially me having attended so many

34:22

matches air when I was younger than

34:24

just a gradual. just those really. A

34:27

was really good storytelling and. Aaa

34:30

try playing in a plane are rose

34:32

really well. Stephanie added a great deal

34:34

to it and it was. You

34:38

know Abby, I lost cleanly ah

34:40

but got moreover in the process

34:42

absolutely dominant, challenged any body and

34:44

will talk about this on social

34:47

of course. Can. Eat. Can anybody

34:49

even seek have a better rumble match that

34:51

was a non rumble match Or rumble or

34:53

have? think this is probably the very best

34:55

one. So while ago relive it today. I

34:57

do want to talk about House and she

34:59

brought it up. But first I want a

35:01

circle back A talk about that. Meeting the

35:03

head with fans he wrote your book that

35:05

it was November. Second is a Smackdown of

35:07

Philadelphia A used one the tag titles from

35:09

the holidays. But. You expressed events hale

35:11

and hearty. After the taping is over, And.

35:14

As you sort of break down and say. This

35:16

I think it's time I'll stop being an active

35:18

wrestler. You go back and forth and you're talking

35:20

about how you're having trouble playing soccer with your

35:22

kids and. You. Feeling like your physical

35:24

quality life was poor. Old He

35:27

told about the mental problems. He sort of cut you

35:29

off mid sentence. Did. You expect it

35:31

to be that abrupt as you think it will

35:33

be more of a sales job. What was your

35:35

expenses? Know I that it's I did expire. I

35:37

expected to meet some hesitation and there was hesitation

35:40

when it was about the knees. You.

35:42

Know I I couldn't play sovereign. My kids

35:44

be there. Realize that unless they kick the

35:46

right to me. My lateral movement was shot

35:48

and I think I've set on the show.

35:50

One of my biggest regrets is that. Although.

35:53

I sell like I needed to be to eighty

35:55

when I faced undertaker and I think I did

35:58

my best work at around two eighty. I'd

36:00

I'd gone up the almost three twenty when

36:02

I was in. Debbie C W. dropped forty

36:04

pounds and and I think it really showed

36:07

in the work I did for easy wu.

36:09

And ah, Japan situate was a

36:12

good wait for me, but when

36:14

I got over, you know, really

36:16

over. I. Could have

36:18

gone down to two fifty. And.

36:20

Save my knees a world of pressure

36:22

and instead knowing that I was he

36:24

was like you're going to be over

36:26

in any way and we've seen that

36:28

was. Guys who have great visit not

36:31

died great Zeke and it is fixated

36:33

on job guys who have a grape

36:35

seeds and as they get over they

36:37

don't have to be as razor sharp.

36:39

Yes, because they're over. So if I

36:41

had gone down thirty pounds to do

36:43

if the. Said. A going

36:45

up thirty pounds to three ten. Ah,

36:49

Would have been a different ballgame but like

36:51

I said when my body started pulling apart

36:53

Zoc went from people say like how does

36:55

he get around like that anymore knee pads

36:57

for most of my daddy daddy Ryan you

36:59

know and I was always. Even

37:02

in those while brawls outside you know I'm

37:04

I'm I'm drop in a my knees even

37:06

of is just on the floor you know

37:08

are doing a lot of damage to the

37:11

point where when I had my knees arm.

37:13

Or leg. I wrote about this in one

37:16

of the first two books when I have

37:18

my knees looked up by an orthopedic surgeon

37:20

like he gathered all his colleagues around to

37:23

marvel at this thirty four year old man

37:25

who had a two year old niece. Because.

37:28

There were so many little tiny

37:30

fractures, you know? ah, and cracks

37:32

in the kneecap. Ah, they never

37:34

seen anything like it. On.

37:36

So I went from somebody who was holding

37:38

up remarkably well do a guys are barely

37:40

walk within a year and so then I

37:43

started leading with my head without the handle,

37:45

you know. And that was like guy. You

37:47

know that. I.

37:50

Don't know it was a macho saying, I

37:52

just thought they looked better. I justified it

37:54

and I did block things a game and

37:56

sideways did a really good job of blocking

37:58

the bottom. The the tendency to lead

38:01

with my head was resulting in a little

38:03

bit a memory loss way back before people

38:05

are really talking about it And that's when

38:07

Vince said you just as your last match.

38:10

And. I do remember. You

38:12

know, there was a big lawsuit against Abu

38:14

Dhabi for the concussions. Ah,

38:17

I thought some of it was really frivolous.

38:19

You know, like guys who wrestled one or

38:21

two years out of a twenty year career.

38:24

Now. Blaming. The. Be

38:26

to be for a of I

38:28

just ask. Yeah yeah I'm. I

38:31

think Bob Cook likened it to a guy

38:33

who eat donuts every day at a variety

38:35

different donut stores but decides to sue. Duncan.

38:38

You know, because they're the biggest arm?

38:41

And. That suppressor that surprised me or

38:43

to goes pretty telling. along with Vince

38:46

telling me after the South you know

38:48

you have no idea how much I

38:50

appreciate what you've just done. This company.

38:53

But. I never want to see anything like

38:55

that again. Ah, so I thought. That

38:57

was pretty telling. About Vince looking

38:59

out for the healthier one of his guys

39:01

and I was making the company a lot

39:03

of money. I was making a lot of

39:06

money and so I'm you know them to

39:08

retire. Thirty four is pretty big decisions and

39:10

then of course to come back. and now

39:12

you know way too many times. Are

39:15

but a few of those. Come back for

39:17

effective and let me ask when you are

39:19

going to have this conversation with Vince. Is

39:22

it something you discuss? what? color

39:24

ahead of time wise? Yeah yeah.

39:26

Was and our. Or

39:28

yeah, do I got emotional and I

39:30

remember Al Snow, you know and I

39:33

would always needle each other and that

39:35

day was needle in May and he

39:37

saw I wasn't needling back and he's

39:39

like okay. And. I

39:41

like brain. I like a tears my

39:43

eyes as like I'm I'm going to

39:46

retire. He was waiting for like that.

39:48

Much like a punchline, there's no punchline

39:50

so sounds funny now that I'm talking

39:53

about. And Ninety Ninety Nine Ah when

39:55

I like I said I did come

39:57

back a number of times. Ah with.

40:01

Oh quip. less and less effective miss over

40:03

time. but I'm in four years away which

40:06

were was to does do that for that

40:08

is a lifetime. A wrestling right? Yes, added

40:10

a lifetime. So I did go for years

40:12

of that amount. Some kind of brown that.

40:16

I. I I want to remind you new

40:18

book He wrote out a little, signed an

40:20

accident thinking of the Royal Rumble send off

40:22

at Madison Square Garden and and told him

40:24

so why risk it? Vince asked if he

40:26

finished dinner. If you go on as a

40:28

champion and you deserve that. Ah,

40:30

He did talk things back and forth and

40:32

you settle on. Survivor. Series

40:35

in Detroit. November nineteenth. That's gonna be

40:37

your final day. Twelve more days to

40:39

go. And. Then of course

40:41

doesn't really work out there because

40:43

Steve center Yes so there was

40:45

definitely are com not camaraderie. And

40:48

of feeling of our family

40:50

and teamwork. So. Ah,

40:52

and this I can. I did. I

40:54

mean eyes I mention that at a

40:56

garden? How shell. And then

40:58

turned to made him think show was getting

41:01

it done at that time on top of

41:03

the card. Rbc. Big shows

41:05

went on to have a first ballot

41:07

hall of Fame career if there is

41:10

such a thing as first ballot. Ah

41:12

but this guy's a huge star but

41:14

in ninety nine for it was thought.

41:17

That. Maybe he wasn't were Vince wanted them

41:20

to be. In fairness the big

41:22

show is he had had so much stuff

41:24

thrown at him by so many different people

41:26

say yeah I think we broke something that

41:29

why we tried to fix something that wasn't

41:31

brought the Us will say you know and

41:33

I think you can fault. Gone

41:36

all the way back to the decision that

41:38

put him in Austin, Iraq. Ah,

41:40

And and have big show lose in what

41:42

was his first. And. Be first

41:44

or second match that was questionable to

41:46

me and asked. The time as a

41:49

for thought process was by a year

41:51

a year from now. No one's going

41:53

to remember that but I think people

41:55

do remember that. Ah but that was

41:57

what gave me an hunter the avenue

41:59

to. Who work on top? See.

42:02

The say we get there are just wanna talk

42:04

about this rather serious conversation. You wrote a book

42:06

that you you have a sit down with

42:08

Jim Ross and he blaze out that they think

42:11

maybe save our sins for your could be overrun.

42:13

And even right, from an ego standpoint, not

42:15

a whole lot of people were going to

42:18

care about Mick Foley retirement. If

42:20

it coincided with Steve Austin's yep. And

42:22

he would even say that a year earlier

42:24

Terry fought gave you some pretty deep. Knowledge.

42:27

Hear. The. Fans sure do love us,

42:29

but they don't miss us when we're gone. And.

42:33

That. Maybe as of the back of your mind

42:35

thinking. Hey. I want to proof of

42:37

wrong. I want people to miss me but

42:40

ban on retired the same time. Steve. You.

42:42

Can watch your moment the son of

42:45

that's what happened right, yeah, a little

42:47

bit, and I'll say that no one

42:49

could have predicted to. That. I'd

42:51

be going to San Antonio twenty

42:53

now with a full featured a

42:55

swift death of his first visit.

42:57

Ah, Of when Vince

42:59

told me that I would be. I'd

43:01

be making a living for the next

43:03

ten years. Offer. What I'd

43:05

done in wi be I thought that

43:08

was a stretcher.out about eighteen months shelf

43:10

life. Not. That I'd

43:12

be completely forgotten, but I wouldn't be

43:14

relevant. Anymore, I'm so

43:16

glad that that has proven not to

43:18

be the Can Write and it is

43:20

I said studying that these all these

43:22

many decades later. You. Know we

43:24

do with better on the you these

43:26

shows and we did when in L.

43:29

Absolutely. It's incredible. Thank. You fans

43:31

for making that possible. Thank

43:33

you for and co. Be. As

43:35

those pops or phenomenon oh my

43:37

goodness. Bigger every year As a

43:39

secret ingredient crossing my fingers for

43:41

the rumor the Undertaker, Mankind, Tupac.

43:43

Oh I now just in time

43:45

for a special anniversary of the

43:47

Battery you wrote your books that

43:50

you're you're thinking at the time

43:52

all right. maybe it'll be my

43:54

last. match will be in December.

43:56

I. an armageddon in fort lauderdale against the

43:58

rock which would have been bay face

44:00

versus baby face. On the

44:03

way there you do drop the tag titles to

44:05

the New Age Outlaws. You manage to dislocate your

44:07

shoulder in the process. Coming out

44:09

of Survivor Series, Big Show is the

44:11

champ. It looks like maybe

44:14

they're gonna start trying to get

44:16

behind him, but as you said, maybe

44:18

it's a bit of a struggle at this point. And

44:21

at some point it

44:24

comes to be that the

44:27

Rock is going to be in

44:29

line for the title at WrestleMania.

44:32

And you write, I called the hunter aside

44:34

on November 29th in Los Angeles and told

44:36

him my plans. His eyes lit up together.

44:38

We planned and plotted and pulled Vince

44:40

aside to tell him about our big idea and he shot

44:42

it down. I honestly don't remember why

44:44

or what even was said, but I do remember

44:46

feeling the agony of defeat as I

44:48

left the office. I like

44:51

the idea of you pitching

44:53

this and then getting shot down and then

44:55

somehow you're gonna get there. Talk

44:58

me through this process and you know

45:00

the reason this fascinates me more than

45:02

anything is we hear in more recent

45:04

years when Vince was there as a

45:07

regular contributor on a day-to-day part or

45:09

a day-to-day role, it's

45:11

hard for guys to even get FaceTime,

45:13

but it feels like you guys have

45:15

just a different relationship in that era

45:17

or is it just your personal relationship

45:19

and maybe that still exists with different

45:21

talent today. I think Vince still does

45:23

have the close relationships with a

45:27

handful of very top guys. I mean

45:29

I tried to reach out to Vince over

45:33

the holidays and his number had changed, but

45:36

there are people who've seen him. I think Cena

45:38

had seen him and this is before any of

45:40

us knew he's gonna be back in the mix.

45:42

I think Undertaker had seen him so his phone

45:44

was always open for those type people.

45:46

I remember Kevin Dunn saying like you know

45:48

Vince wants you to call him. You

45:51

know he said he's got that relationship with

45:53

Rock and Steve and you know Undertaker and

45:55

guys that he helped, things helped make this

45:57

company. He doesn't have that with you. I

46:00

was like, really? And that surprised

46:02

me. And so I texted him. I said, do

46:04

you want to talk? We

46:07

had a nice talk. And then

46:09

I was back in the fold. I

46:12

don't remember exactly the angle I pitched him

46:14

in. Well, you were pitching Hunter and you

46:16

at the Rome roll. Yeah. And then I

46:18

think while you're saying that, it must have

46:20

been a case where we were shot down.

46:22

And he came up to us at

46:24

that house show. And

46:26

he accepted that idea. Probably

46:28

put a couple of twists on it. Do

46:31

you think Vince just loved what you had done

46:33

with Rock and felt like that should be the

46:36

swan song still? No,

46:38

I think it really had to do with needing

46:41

to bridge that gap between Steve's

46:45

injury and mania, clearly

46:47

knowing that Rock was going to be

46:51

a major part of mania. But

46:53

I think they needed something

46:55

to bridge that gap. And maybe he didn't

46:58

want to go with me and Rock for

47:00

that reason, because we had such great history

47:02

together. You pitch him another

47:04

idea. December 4 at a

47:06

house show in Madison Square Garden, he shoots it

47:09

down again. And he wrote, I was

47:11

frustrated as hell. I knew deep down that

47:13

I had at least one good match left

47:16

in me and hated Vince for not allowing

47:18

me to have it. Hated him? Why, Vince,

47:20

why? His answer hurt me, perhaps worse than

47:22

any share shot I've ever received. But

47:25

at the same time, it opened up my eyes to

47:27

the logic of his answer, which made hatred a great

47:29

deal more difficult to feel. Nick, you're

47:31

huge. I tried to defend myself. But with

47:33

a body that seemed to support his accusation,

47:35

I was left speechless. He continued

47:37

to assault, but did so as gently as

47:40

possible. Maybe you two could have

47:42

a good match at the Rumble if we promoted it correctly.

47:44

But a rematch in February would require you to put in

47:46

a lot of time. And he was referring

47:48

to the length of the match. Quote, I

47:51

don't think you can really do it. Wow.

47:55

That is true. True. Speaking of challenges,

47:57

in two weeks when I returned to

47:59

the studio we're gonna begin the Foley weight

48:01

loss challenge. This is the heaviest I've ever

48:04

been. In truth my

48:06

weight is a little bit of the reason

48:08

I didn't go on the show because I'm

48:10

about 60 pounds heavier than I

48:12

was just from the last time people saw

48:14

me and about 80 pounds

48:16

heavier than I was when I refereed

48:19

a cell match with Roman and Braun

48:21

and I think I need to drop

48:23

about for my

48:25

own health 50-60 pounds and that

48:27

would be part of the reason why traveling

48:29

for this project that I've been doing the

48:31

last several months has been what's

48:34

this? It's been

48:36

much more difficult than it needs to be partially

48:38

because I'm just too big so two weeks from

48:40

now we're gonna weigh in we'll have to figure

48:42

out a way to make it fun get people

48:45

behind me but I don't think I can do

48:47

it without the pressure of accountability.

48:49

So Vince speaking

48:52

of accountability that lit a fire

48:54

under my butt big time

48:57

I was lucky that I know it sounds ridiculous to say

48:59

I owned a gym but my wife and I owned a

49:01

gym in the Florida Panhandle

49:04

so I was lucky that I could go there

49:06

after hours and I did I worked really hard

49:08

on the cardio you know I was

49:10

kind of giving up on the upper musculature

49:12

type of thing but I was definitely putting

49:14

the time and effort into the cardio and

49:16

I think it showed. Dropped about 30 big

49:18

ones in six

49:21

seven weeks was noticed moving

49:23

noticeably better and the

49:25

proof as they say was

49:28

in the pudding. And then magically Vince

49:30

approaches you. Mick can I talk to you

49:32

I'm not going with Triple H and show

49:34

with the rumble the reactions just not there

49:37

I'm going with you and Hunter but not

49:39

as a retirement match we can do that

49:41

later but Mick I

49:43

want you to get in shape I had

49:46

six weeks to get there and as you laid out

49:48

you certainly did it's pretty

49:50

cool to see that you were campaigning

49:52

for this no no no you were

49:54

persistent no no no and then finally

49:56

he acquiesces. Sure did good

49:59

work. Unfortunately It's maybe

50:01

because Big Show wasn't getting over with the crowd

50:03

at the time, maybe the creative wasn't great. That's

50:06

what the thought was. Yes. And,

50:10

look, it's a

50:12

little segue. Chris

50:15

Jericho and I once killed three hours

50:17

on a plane trip discussing

50:19

Big Show's heel and face

50:21

changes, turns, and

50:24

it was 20 years ago. That's

50:26

how many times Show had turned. So I

50:28

don't know if it was the turning, because

50:30

he did have some really effective turns. Yes,

50:32

the crappy creatives. Yeah, but he also had

50:35

some great stuff along the way. The Ellison

50:37

gun, I mean, they had a lot of

50:39

great things that Show did, but

50:41

he turned quite a bit, whatever

50:44

the reason I was given the green light after

50:46

Vince saw what he needed to see

50:49

at that house show. Through the course

50:51

of this, we also see Stephanie turn

50:54

on her father and join Triple

50:57

H, so it's like the

50:59

McMahon-Helmsley regime really begins here.

51:02

I don't think anybody would have predicted, or

51:04

I certainly would have, that Stephanie would go

51:07

on to be such a great on-screen character.

51:10

I realize some of our listeners hated her. Well,

51:12

guys, that was the idea. She was a heel.

51:15

My goodness, she was phenomenal as a

51:17

heel, right? Such a great, yeah, great

51:19

character. If I

51:21

may say, my one contribution during

51:24

that time is I

51:26

think the idea was, in

51:28

Stephanie's explanation, it was a

51:30

swerve all along. I

51:32

told her I thought there was more

51:34

heat in saying that Hunter

51:37

turned her on. She

51:39

came to this by accident, and there's that

51:41

line, he really turns me on, which

51:44

I thought was more heat than saying

51:46

that she'd been planning it on elaborate

51:48

ruse all along. But

51:51

whatever the case, Stephanie's one of my favorite

51:54

characters, really is, and she's

51:56

such a professional, really,

51:58

her memorization. Process in

52:01

her work ethic is just incredible She

52:03

was so helpful to me when I was a

52:05

GM because I was rude I was just I

52:07

would blank out You know I couldn't remember a

52:09

lot of the verbiage and she'd

52:12

always have a few I remember

52:14

Carlos Well Carlos

52:16

the announcer Cabrera. Yeah, Carlos comes over

52:18

me. He says did

52:20

Stephanie say five alarm fire to

52:22

you I said yes She did

52:25

that went up to Stephanie before

52:27

my premiere before our premiere segment

52:29

as Commissioner GM. I said Stephanie

52:33

I'm gonna forget what I'm saying It's not a

52:35

matter of if it's just a matter of when

52:37

so if you could be standing by with like

52:39

a couple of key words What

52:41

I didn't know is I would space out like

52:43

eight seconds into my own promo And

52:46

so you actually if you watch you can

52:48

see Stephanie like walk by or at least

52:50

in proximity go I have

52:52

alarm fire and then that put me

52:54

back on course so I thought she

52:56

was a I really thought she

52:58

was a great character Really enjoyed

53:00

working with her in 2000

53:03

and in 2016

53:05

2017 Can't

53:08

say enough nice things about Stephanie We

53:11

want to talk about another segment you had

53:13

on the way to this Royal Rumble You

53:15

wind up working a boiler room match with

53:17

Santa And

53:19

that to me Is

53:22

something that is one where I gotta tell

53:24

ya the real Santa was there and

53:27

then I was attacked by Several faux

53:29

Santas who were the mean street posse,

53:31

right? How hilarious is this

53:34

and I think Billy gun and Road Dog

53:36

were there were a couple of different? Santa

53:39

matches I had I can't remember which

53:41

one was which but yeah, that was

53:43

the last Santa was Triple H he's

53:45

gonna clobber you lay you out and

53:48

Christmas music is playing and Teddy

53:51

Long sort of dead pans and raises Triple

53:53

H his arm outside of the boiler room

53:56

and Announces that Santa Claus was the winner.

53:58

I don't know why But just

54:00

the idea that Mick Foley's wrestling Santa

54:02

Claus in a boiler room match still

54:05

tickles me to this day Let's

54:09

talk a little bit about beach balls you're

54:11

gonna have a no contest with big show

54:14

and Stephanie's doing color

54:16

and the crowd is kind of dead for the

54:18

match Because they're entertaining themselves

54:20

with a beach ball in the crowd

54:23

and I know this became a hot topic I don't

54:25

know maybe eight or nine years ago and Some

54:28

of the wrestlers took great issue with it

54:30

others didn't care at all I think specifically

54:32

maybe the most egregious one was the night

54:34

after a WrestleMania It was a really rowdy

54:37

crowd and I think Seamus maybe was

54:39

in the ring and I'm

54:41

just curious from your perspective Where are

54:43

you at on beach balls and the

54:45

fans just entertaining themselves and sort of

54:47

ignoring what's happening in the ring? Well,

54:49

we're all there to enjoy what's happening

54:51

in the ring. Yes, so beach balls

54:53

a distraction kind of disrespectful Yeah, and

54:55

it has you know every time is

54:57

if the fans feel like they need

54:59

to entertain themselves or if

55:01

they make the decision to follow a beach

55:04

ball rather than the product they Paid

55:06

to see I guess that could be Telling

55:10

about what they're seeing in the ring, but I'd

55:12

like to think it wasn't so much me and

55:16

Big show as it is a bug

55:18

is gonna fly into that light. Yeah, no

55:21

matter what right? So

55:23

people are Inquisitive by

55:25

nature and I think no matter what the

55:28

event is you put a beach ball into

55:30

the air People

55:32

are gonna follow it Let's talk a

55:34

little bit about the pink slip on a pole match

55:37

It's going down in Greensboro We're all gonna open

55:39

with DX and Stephanie in the ring and you're

55:41

gonna try to turn DX on Hunter by using

55:43

mind games Stephanie then announces that

55:45

you're gonna take on the rock in a pink slip

55:47

on a pole match ultimately

55:50

rock gets the win you

55:52

lose in six minutes and ten seconds and

55:56

Afterwards you take off your

55:58

mask and do a farewell interview which Meltzer

56:00

would say is too bad because when

56:02

it's time to do the real one, he's now

56:04

trivialized it. It was a good

56:06

interview even if it was played as a comedy backdrop

56:09

for Triple H to make fun of him. What

56:11

do you think of that creative then for

56:13

you to do like a faux farewell and

56:15

do you agree now with hindsight that Meltzer

56:17

thought maybe that wasn't the best call? Well,

56:21

I'm glad I wasn't reading. Sure.

56:25

Yeah. We covered that with Dude Love

56:27

and things of that nature. I don't think it

56:29

may have seemed at the time like it was

56:31

going to trivialize it, but I think we follow

56:33

that up with the I've

56:36

been fired, all the vignettes with

56:38

Triple H and Dennis Knight in

56:40

the role of the fake

56:42

mankind. I thought were really

56:44

effective. So I think

56:47

if I had not given an

56:49

interview like I was

56:51

retiring that there would not have been that

56:53

four or five week block that was really

56:55

strong that built up to what I thought

56:57

was going to be the last match. And

56:59

I did not know for a fact that

57:01

I was going to get a retirement speech

57:04

up until I think the

57:06

decision was made to do

57:08

the loser

57:11

must retire based on an injury.

57:13

Was Eddie Guerrero injured

57:16

at that point? I

57:18

can't remember, but I think I

57:21

don't remember what the mindset was going into

57:23

that. But no,

57:26

I'm going to respectfully disagree and say,

57:28

did I already say the proof is

57:30

in the pudding? Yes. Right?

57:33

We came out, the end justifies the means

57:35

some of the time. And in this case,

57:38

we had two really great matches. And

57:40

I don't think anyone, I didn't even recall that I

57:42

gave a. Very well. Yeah.

57:45

Well, you do some interviews here on SmackDown with

57:47

Jim Ross where you're talking about being back at

57:49

home and you mentioned in the interview that

57:51

you wanted to leave on your own terms and you

57:53

never got the headline at WrestleMania. I

57:56

think that's fascinating, especially

57:58

in hindsight to think about. Of course

58:00

we know it's going to happen for you, but I'm

58:03

curious, was that a bucket list item

58:05

for you that you... It

58:08

didn't become a bucket

58:10

list item until that

58:13

run, you know, the run with

58:15

The Rock and then later the run with

58:17

Hunter. Because I think I'd set

58:19

a list of goals and my goal was to headline

58:23

a pay-per-view that did

58:25

whatever the rating was going to be. A

58:27

headline, a house show that sold out

58:29

Madison Square Garden. So I

58:31

don't think I ever put the emphasis

58:33

on WrestleMania and I even

58:36

to this day I encourage, you know, I tell

58:38

people like you get to define in life what

58:40

your own WrestleMania moments are. Whether

58:42

you're a wrestler or not, like you get to decide what the

58:44

important moments in your life are.

58:46

Not to go all DDP on you at this

58:48

point, but I can be

58:50

positive when I need to and I think

58:52

it's important that we have that ability to

58:54

not let someone else define for us with

58:56

being as successes. So

58:58

if I did say, if I did feel

59:01

that way about Mania, that was a late

59:03

feeling because now it was on the

59:05

horizon. Maybe a year or two earlier that wouldn't

59:07

have seemed a possibility

59:10

because I, you know, I took a

59:12

lot of pride in being the guy who gets the

59:14

real guy ready. Being the

59:16

guy who gets the top guy ready for

59:20

Mania. But here it was in my grasp.

59:22

At one point Mania was going to be

59:25

me, Steve and Dwayne in a three way

59:27

and, you know, that got shot down. There

59:31

was a promo I did.

59:33

I think it's been lost to the hands of time

59:37

after I lost the pink

59:39

slip match. Kevin Kelly did an

59:41

interview and I broke into tears. I really

59:43

did. Legit because I've never been able to

59:46

pretend to cry even when I've tried. But

59:49

in that case, I broke into tears. My wife and the

59:51

two kids, you know, when I had two kids, they were

59:54

there. And I think

59:56

Vince saw that promo and realized

59:58

how important it was. to me and

1:00:01

jumping ahead to Mania

1:00:03

2000, that's why they decided

1:00:05

to make it a four

1:00:07

way. Yeah. That's awesome. Well,

1:00:10

let's talk about the next Raw at Miami. We're

1:00:12

going to see the Rock be putting a handicap

1:00:14

match where if he loses, he'll be fired and

1:00:17

he's going to have to take on X-Pac

1:00:19

and Hunter and you come out and

1:00:21

make the save and you're bouncing

1:00:24

chair shots off of both guys and you

1:00:26

write, I was firing chair shots

1:00:28

so quickly that I didn't have time to

1:00:30

line up for X-Pac correctly and

1:00:32

I knew when he went down that I caught him with

1:00:34

the edge of the chair, which is a definite no-no. I

1:00:37

waited for him to come through the curtain and sure enough when

1:00:39

he did, the skin on his forehead

1:00:41

looked like a tin of sardines that had been opened

1:00:43

a third of the way. He took

1:00:45

it amazingly well, but it sure

1:00:47

did look good on tape. Man,

1:00:50

how great is Shawn Waltman? Oh man,

1:00:52

yeah, yeah, yeah. Up until a few

1:00:54

years ago when I still

1:00:56

thought, I'm not saying he doesn't have a run left in

1:00:58

him. I don't think he thinks he has a run left in

1:01:00

him. He does. You think so? He's got

1:01:02

a couple matches in him. At this point, but

1:01:05

when I saw him at the Gathering of the

1:01:07

Juggalos, I was just surprised by how sharp he

1:01:09

was and how much he looked like his former

1:01:12

self in the ring and he's just been a great,

1:01:15

not just superstar, but a great ambassador

1:01:19

for wrestling and a guy going back,

1:01:21

all the way back to that incredible

1:01:23

victory over Razor that put him

1:01:25

on the map, which was one of the great moments

1:01:27

in Raw and was shown as part

1:01:31

of the highlight package. So yeah,

1:01:33

he's been really great. Let's

1:01:36

talk a little bit about that return.

1:01:39

Of course, you took the mask off, so

1:01:41

maybe that was symbolic that okay, mankind- Can

1:01:43

I just go back to Shawn Waltman for

1:01:45

a second? I don't know if you saw

1:01:47

the photo I ran into Drew

1:01:50

McIntyre and Seamus on the

1:01:52

airplane. And so I'm

1:01:54

sitting one seat in back

1:01:57

of Drew and we're

1:01:59

talking. before the flight takes off,

1:02:01

but we're talking steadily. And the guy next

1:02:03

to me kind of reads the writing on

1:02:05

the log. He goes, would you two like

1:02:07

to sit together? Yeah, sure. So Drew and

1:02:09

I end up talking the whole time. And

1:02:12

he brought up that when he and

1:02:14

Brock first got together, Brock was like, and

1:02:16

this shows you the wisdom of Brock Lesnar.

1:02:18

He's like, you have

1:02:20

to stop bumping for everyone. Because

1:02:22

you get caught up in that idea of

1:02:24

having a great match every time. And

1:02:28

you forget that you're

1:02:30

trying to build a character at the same time.

1:02:32

And one way of doing that is through having

1:02:35

great matches. But the type

1:02:37

of match you have sometimes

1:02:39

depends on who you're facing. And

1:02:41

so I told him about this time

1:02:44

with Sean Waltman, where we're getting together

1:02:47

before the retirement match, before the hell

1:02:49

in the cell. And

1:02:51

Sean wants to tear the house down. And I was

1:02:53

like, Sean, I said, I know

1:02:55

we could do that. But I feel

1:02:57

like I need to look strong. And

1:03:00

that was a tension. But

1:03:02

you have to have those talks sometimes

1:03:04

for the good of the program. And

1:03:06

it wasn't the type of match that Sean wanted to

1:03:09

have. But it was the type of match I thought

1:03:11

we needed to have. And I

1:03:13

think that big fans of what

1:03:16

we do hopefully

1:03:18

can open their minds to the idea that

1:03:20

there is a time and a place to

1:03:23

take one for the team and have

1:03:25

less than the best match you can

1:03:27

have because it's better for the problem.

1:03:29

The bigger story. Yeah, bigger picture. All

1:03:31

right, listen up. We've got great news.

1:03:34

We're excited to announce a new affiliate

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1:03:38

It's an easy way to support your

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Or if you're watching along with us on YouTube, just

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an easy way to support the show. That's

1:04:19

shopwrestlingmerch.com. One

1:04:22

of the other things I wanted to ask about is the

1:04:25

idea that this Rumble match isn't

1:04:27

going to be against Hunter against

1:04:30

Mick Foley, or Hunter against Dude

1:04:32

Love, or Hunter against

1:04:34

Mankind. It's Hunter against Cactus Jack. In

1:04:36

your mind, when you took the

1:04:38

mask off and did the little farewell speech that you

1:04:41

don't even remember now, but in

1:04:43

that moment, did you know then it's going to

1:04:45

be Cactus Jack at MSG? I

1:04:49

don't know, Conrad, to tell you the

1:04:51

truth, but as you bring that

1:04:53

up and as we're fond of saying we're about

1:04:55

creating moments, I'd

1:04:58

like to think the second that

1:05:00

Dave saw the promo where Mankind

1:05:02

becomes Cactus Jack, that it all

1:05:04

made sense. And I was told by

1:05:07

this brilliant illusionist named Matt Ricardo from

1:05:09

the UK that that's

1:05:11

the segment he shows people who

1:05:13

are not fans. That

1:05:15

opens their eyes to the possibility. Because

1:05:18

for those of our listeners and

1:05:20

viewers, of which there probably aren't

1:05:22

that many, because I think most people are

1:05:24

familiar with this promo, it's

1:05:26

essentially me changing my shirt. And

1:05:30

I've given credit to Triple H every

1:05:33

chance I can, because it's so important that all

1:05:35

he needed to do was go, you're

1:05:38

the same guy with a different shirt. And

1:05:40

instead he sold it. Now, as we

1:05:43

approach this, I realize that once I

1:05:45

say the line, once

1:05:48

I say I'm not ready to, you know, Mankind,

1:05:50

Mankind's the heck of a fighter, but he's not

1:05:52

ready to take you on, but I know somebody

1:05:54

who is, I realize

1:05:56

I've got a small window of time before

1:05:58

the fans start canning. the Rock's name. So

1:06:01

I've got a cut to the chase pretty quickly

1:06:03

that's in my head and I think that would

1:06:05

have been borne out if I waited even five

1:06:07

more seconds and instead as

1:06:09

soon as I start taking that thing off

1:06:12

and it's got the blood spattered from the

1:06:14

week before and man that crowd

1:06:17

just came unglued. Yeah. And

1:06:19

it became this I mean it became one

1:06:21

of the best things I've ever done and

1:06:24

like I said something that some

1:06:26

big-time fans show their

1:06:28

non-wrestling friends and it kind of

1:06:30

even if it doesn't turn them into a fan it

1:06:33

opens their eyes to like our I consider

1:06:35

what we do to be an art form.

1:06:37

Yeah. And it opens their eyes as to

1:06:40

the artistry involved. The

1:06:49

place that

1:06:51

is enough! This

1:06:58

is what you get all upon making fun of

1:07:00

me. How much more do you want for me? First

1:07:13

you take away my job then

1:07:16

you bring this idiot out there and you

1:07:20

take away my dignity. Then

1:07:23

Monday night it should have been

1:07:25

the greatest night of my life

1:07:27

when I was reinstated on rise

1:07:29

war. You take me and you

1:07:34

ruin my shirt.

1:07:38

What? And you ruin

1:07:40

my face and I'll be honest when

1:07:43

I stepped into that shower and I

1:07:45

let the cold water run down on

1:07:47

my head and I looked

1:07:50

down at the blood as it

1:07:52

swirled around that shower drain I

1:07:55

started thinking a little bit about what

1:07:58

mankind was. A

1:08:04

mankind is

1:08:08

an entertaining son of a gun. Mankind

1:08:13

is a pretty damn good

1:08:15

author. Mankind

1:08:21

is one top S.O.B. Mankind

1:08:29

is one hell of a

1:08:31

fighter. So

1:08:35

it saddens me to say that

1:08:37

after the beating you gave me

1:08:39

on Monday night, one

1:08:42

thing mankind is not is

1:08:45

ready to face you in a street fight

1:08:47

at the Royal Rumble in Madison Square Garden.

1:08:52

That because

1:08:56

you are without a doubt the

1:08:59

game. You

1:09:01

are the best in the

1:09:03

business right now. And

1:09:06

as you said, well, mankind

1:09:09

in some ways is nothing more

1:09:11

than a beaten up, pathetic

1:09:14

fool. But

1:09:19

I think the WWF fans deserve

1:09:23

a substitute in that match. What

1:09:28

the hell? What I'm gonna do Triple H

1:09:30

is I'm gonna name him right

1:09:32

now. As a matter of fact, I

1:09:35

think you know the guy. Uh-oh.

1:09:41

No, no, no, no. No,

1:09:47

I think you know his name well. His

1:09:53

name is Dr. Scott.

1:10:00

This is the first time this is our first

1:10:02

time this is our final event in

1:10:04

the WU in 1613 all

1:10:08

over the city of Chicago This is just

1:10:10

the best This is the best

1:10:14

event in the World Games for all of us Texas

1:10:16

State defenders for boys and

1:10:18

here we go Texas State tournament

1:10:20

on the top of the top of

1:10:22

the best champions of their game single

1:10:26

all day long in the world

1:10:31

in the world Texas State for

1:10:34

the indigest

1:10:36

for the big big

1:10:42

big big

1:10:46

big big big

1:10:52

big big

1:10:56

big, I you big

1:11:03

big big big

1:11:24

it. Oh

1:11:45

place for the royal rumble, you're

1:11:48

going to take me please,

1:11:51

I've got some news for you. It

1:11:54

will not be the first time

1:11:58

and it sure as hell will that

1:12:00

be the last because I've got an

1:12:02

awful lot of blood to give. That's

1:12:07

a scary thought. But

1:12:11

as far as you, you

1:12:13

look into my eyes and

1:12:15

realize I mean every word

1:12:17

when I tell you I'm gonna

1:12:20

tear you apart in New York City.

1:12:31

And then I

1:12:33

will take what you hold dearest. I'm

1:12:36

talking about your cherished

1:12:39

WWF Championship belt.

1:12:45

I will take it and

1:12:47

it will be mine, mine, all mine.

1:12:52

Bye bye. Hit

1:12:54

the ring. It's

1:13:16

amazing how the subtleties in wrestling make all the difference.

1:13:18

Yeah. You know I don't know that it ever really

1:13:21

clicked for me until you said it. Really

1:13:23

I was just changing my shirt. But

1:13:26

you do this voice effect too and those

1:13:28

little subtleties and even comparing Hulk Hogan who

1:13:30

had this incredible run and became an icon

1:13:32

in the red and yellow. He

1:13:34

changes his colors and dyes his

1:13:36

beard and has slightly different mannerisms

1:13:39

but man it works so well.

1:13:42

Incredible. And now I

1:13:44

was a guy at home saying

1:13:47

to myself on one level he's

1:13:50

playing the air guitar his beard is different

1:13:52

colors this is so stupid. On

1:13:55

the other hand I'm admitting to myself

1:13:57

it's working. Yes it is. It's

1:14:00

working. Amazing. He changes. He

1:14:02

comes out to Hendrix, right?

1:14:04

Yeah. And he goes white

1:14:06

and black for NWO. And

1:14:10

it was maybe the greatest

1:14:12

run of his career. It's just fascinating

1:14:14

to me that I don't think we

1:14:16

fans, or maybe even folks in the business, really

1:14:18

think about the little nuances, the

1:14:21

little subtleties, and how they make all the difference.

1:14:23

I think a lot of times when people think

1:14:25

about reinventing a character or putting

1:14:27

a new coat of paint on a character,

1:14:29

it must be radically different. But

1:14:31

just now, as we're talking in our normal

1:14:34

everyday voices and you broke into that mankind

1:14:36

voice, I got goosebumps.

1:14:38

It's a little thing that still works.

1:14:41

Hey, you know what's funny? You

1:14:44

were able to see my show

1:14:47

in Huntsville, the last tour

1:14:49

before COVID, right? Yes. Before

1:14:51

COVID. As time went

1:14:53

on, especially when I started doing

1:14:55

the songs on Cameo, I

1:14:57

would break out the, dude

1:15:00

is wishing you a

1:15:02

happy birthday. And so

1:15:05

when I went to Australia, I was varying. I

1:15:08

was changing the different birthday songs I had.

1:15:11

And as soon as I did The My

1:15:13

Way, which some of our viewers and listeners

1:15:15

here have seen, there was a change

1:15:17

where I go from being dude loved to

1:15:19

mankind in about a second and a half.

1:15:23

So dude finishes one line. And then

1:15:25

off goes the dude stuff. On goes

1:15:28

the mask. I turn around and I

1:15:30

say, yes, there were times I

1:15:32

slipped and fell like the time I was

1:15:34

through. There were times you slipped and fell,

1:15:36

like the time that I was thrown off

1:15:38

the cell. And the

1:15:40

crowd reacts as if they're

1:15:43

actually seeing a different guy.

1:15:45

So on one hand, they're very aware. I'm just

1:15:47

a guy,

1:15:49

an overweight dude in his late 50s,

1:15:52

taking off one ridiculous outfit, putting on another.

1:15:54

But on the other hand, it's like, it's

1:15:57

a different guy. promoter

1:16:00

in Australia said that's the song you need

1:16:02

to be doing. So for the

1:16:04

last five nights it was it was my

1:16:06

way and every night we got the reaction

1:16:08

as if we're seeing

1:16:11

a change in character and it reminded

1:16:13

me of that promo I did with

1:16:15

with Triple H. Yeah it's phenomenal. Well

1:16:18

let's talk about the next day at SmackDown you're

1:16:20

in Tallahassee and it's one of the most iconic

1:16:23

long skits in WWE history you wrote in

1:16:25

your book that Dennis Knight, Phineas

1:16:28

Godwin and Midian could

1:16:30

do an uncanny imitation of you. You

1:16:33

wrote when I showed up to the arena

1:16:35

I received tremendous news I was being dispatched

1:16:37

to Universal Studios to supervise some

1:16:40

bogus mankind vignettes. So we were not

1:16:42

in Orlando we were at Tallahassee and

1:16:44

we drove to Orlando and Bruce probably

1:16:46

covered this in something

1:16:48

to wrestle with at one point right? I'm

1:16:50

sure. Because Bruce was hands on. Okay go

1:16:53

ahead with the... Well I'm just

1:16:55

curious how this came to be because this

1:16:57

feels like how does Vince how

1:16:59

do people know that Midian can do this?

1:17:01

I think he'd

1:17:03

done it enough. Triple H certainly

1:17:06

knew that he could do it and

1:17:08

even though Triple H didn't have the

1:17:10

pull then that he does now I'm

1:17:12

just guessing it was a Triple H suggestion but

1:17:15

it was really good I mean this was other

1:17:17

than you know

1:17:19

naked Midian premiering in

1:17:22

front of a sold out

1:17:24

house on the monitor this

1:17:26

is one I think one of the finest moments

1:17:29

of Dennis Knight's career. So

1:17:31

we got this promo boy let me tell

1:17:33

you before Triple H fired me I was

1:17:36

somebody. I wasn't afraid of anything

1:17:38

I jumped off the top of the Hell in

1:17:40

a Cell the Undertaker almost killed me but I

1:17:42

wasn't afraid no do you hear me

1:17:44

no I was not afraid because I

1:17:46

am mankind the craziest most fearless wrestler

1:17:49

in the history and

1:17:51

the mechanical charge of himself and

1:17:54

he lets out

1:17:57

a whoo great

1:17:59

stuff I really told

1:18:01

Dennis and I think I insisted we

1:18:03

were asked what ride we wanted to

1:18:05

utilize and I said the Jaws ride.

1:18:07

I thought it would lend itself best

1:18:10

to that type of verbiage and

1:18:12

the lighting would be good and I got

1:18:14

to ride it like six, seven times and

1:18:16

I got to see Dennis' performance. I really

1:18:18

told him you have to build up multiple

1:18:21

times that you're not afraid of

1:18:23

anything. And then when

1:18:25

this thing comes out, I think

1:18:27

I told him to play it

1:18:29

up as much as you possibly

1:18:31

could. He's annoying passengers

1:18:33

with his tails of bravery and

1:18:35

when that thing surfaced and he

1:18:37

let out that shriek, it's

1:18:43

hilarious. And then after several

1:18:46

seconds he regains composure and

1:18:48

says, boy, I'm not afraid of that anymore.

1:18:51

This is so stupid. At

1:18:53

this time there was no Amazon mankind

1:18:55

mask you could order. This is Richie

1:18:58

Posner making a mankind mask out of

1:19:00

duct tape. Wow. And

1:19:02

it looked good too. It looked really good. Before Triple H

1:19:04

fired me, I was somebody. I wasn't afraid of anything. I

1:19:06

jumped off the top of the helmet, still the undertaker almost

1:19:08

killed me, but was I a breed? No.

1:19:12

Can you hear me? No, I was not a breed because I was mankind. I

1:19:15

was a man. I was a man. I was the most

1:19:17

crazy man. I was the most crazy man. I was the

1:19:19

most crazy man. I was the most crazy man. I was the most

1:19:21

crazy man. I'm

1:19:51

not scared of that anymore. And

1:20:00

he says I know I'll set the hands of time

1:20:02

back to December 28th 1998 when my wife was still

1:20:04

attractive Okay,

1:20:07

okay That was a

1:20:09

very yet March 15th 1982

1:20:12

the last time my wife found me attractive and

1:20:14

let me have sex with her boy that sure was a

1:20:16

great day No, my one

1:20:18

regret I'm

1:20:20

such a I'm such a

1:20:23

spoilsport In character where

1:20:25

I would take such grave offense to

1:20:27

that and I was even thinking

1:20:29

as I was you know Stomping

1:20:31

a mud hole and walking them dry at the back to

1:20:34

the future ride That that

1:20:36

was actually pretty funny Right that I

1:20:38

was like is that keeping the character

1:20:40

get that upset about something that's meant

1:20:42

in jest but I think I

1:20:45

even said in the book like By

1:20:47

virtue of that there were no other brawls in front

1:20:49

of the back to the future ride That's

1:20:52

like the bread heart of back to the future Best

1:20:56

there is the best there was best there ever

1:20:58

will be oh my gosh What a great segment

1:21:00

raw the next week is in st. Louis and

1:21:02

Dave Meltzer even says it's one of the best

1:21:04

shows in a long time the Whole

1:21:07

roster came out showing the rock is the

1:21:09

leader claiming they would form a rival company

1:21:11

called the World Rock Federation Or

1:21:15

something like that and protests over triple-h

1:21:17

and Stephanie's reign and throughout the

1:21:19

show Mankind is torturing the

1:21:21

fake mankind and threatened

1:21:23

to make him watch an hour of

1:21:25

Al Snow matches Which

1:21:28

is fun because you can get the best of Al

1:21:30

Snow DVD actually they never Doesn't

1:21:32

exist The

1:21:35

main event started as DX versus Rock Mankind

1:21:38

and the acolytes and the

1:21:40

whole show was built around DX being mad

1:21:42

at Triple H Meltzer

1:21:45

would say actually it seems every show was built

1:21:47

around that only they make up at the end

1:21:49

And it's a swerve, but this week

1:21:51

it wasn't a swerve until the next night

1:21:54

So they walked out acolytes and rock ended up

1:21:56

doing the disappearing act brawling to the back so

1:21:58

wound up being triple-h for was mankind.

1:22:01

And this was by far the best Foley has

1:22:03

looked in the ring since his double knee surgery.

1:22:06

It was a dramatic, heated three and a half star

1:22:08

match. Of course eventually

1:22:10

we do the unmasking, the bang bang.

1:22:13

The announcers never referenced Cactus Jack

1:22:15

and the bang bang is seemingly

1:22:18

only understood by a very small percentage

1:22:20

of the crowd. What

1:22:22

do you remember of this match? Meltzer really loved it.

1:22:25

Were you feeling it that day? You can

1:22:27

tell? Unless I'm mistaken, this

1:22:30

is the one where I'm firing

1:22:32

the, oh no, no, this may have

1:22:34

been the one where I

1:22:37

waylaid Dennis Knight. I might be off for

1:22:39

a week. But there was definitely

1:22:42

a time where I went back

1:22:44

to watch the video and I thought maybe it

1:22:46

would have sped up because I was moving so

1:22:48

much faster than I had. And

1:22:50

I don't know if it was that match or

1:22:52

the following week with the angle, with the revelation

1:22:56

of Cactus Jack, but Triple

1:22:58

H is just urging me, as

1:23:01

I'm hammering him with those forearms,

1:23:03

he's bringing out the best of me. So

1:23:05

as I hit Triple H with the running knee,

1:23:07

which I'd done by that point at

1:23:10

least 100 times, I mean that's a very

1:23:12

conservative estimate, I

1:23:15

was moving so fast that I ended up

1:23:17

hitting my sternum, knocking

1:23:19

the wind out of myself and I don't know if

1:23:22

it was a bruise or whatever, but I was sort

1:23:24

of the touch for a couple weeks after that because

1:23:26

I'd been moving so much faster. So

1:23:28

yeah, no doubt that was the best

1:23:30

I was moving since the surgery, I

1:23:32

think that was about six months earlier

1:23:34

I had the double knee surgery. I

1:23:36

think this might be the last time

1:23:38

your build is mankind in wrestle on

1:23:40

Monday Night Raw. I think you're right.

1:23:43

And I'm curious from your perspective, we

1:23:45

know how fond you were of dude

1:23:48

love being this mythological

1:23:51

persona you created as a kid and then

1:23:53

you get to play it out. And then

1:23:55

really, Cactus Jack is just yours, but

1:23:58

Mankind, man, you really sunk your. Sheath underwear

1:24:00

and that is kind of a farewell of

1:24:02

sorts. Was. It bittersweet to see that

1:24:04

care for go where he just glad to be

1:24:07

done without my I wasn't bittersweet to see a

1:24:09

be it was. You know, going in

1:24:11

a direction that I was? You know? Very.

1:24:13

Enthusiastic about I don't think I

1:24:15

saw paused to say this last

1:24:17

time we'll see Man Time because

1:24:19

now you can see a Man

1:24:22

cameo.com/mick Foley not apply a lot

1:24:24

of I just saying it is

1:24:26

out The Man and a Man

1:24:28

Time mask is ah ah so

1:24:30

I'd love the character. I'd really

1:24:32

grown to love that character, but

1:24:34

I realized as we spoken about

1:24:36

in past episodes that ah the

1:24:38

there was something special about the

1:24:40

reveal. A love one of the

1:24:42

other characters whether. It's dude love

1:24:44

giving way to mankind so that

1:24:46

man tag take care of business

1:24:48

or in this case mankind seeding

1:24:50

a ground to attacked is so

1:24:52

cactus can take your business. I

1:24:54

always felt like. Not. Always.

1:24:57

But when that was done right,

1:24:59

that the characters were introduced for

1:25:01

our. For. Dramatic effect

1:25:04

serve ever set and then the that

1:25:06

it was it was effective. Sorcery,

1:25:08

About the the same show we have

1:25:11

these backstage skits with Tory. Ah,

1:25:13

Where. You're. Being very

1:25:15

complimentary of her sweaty heaving voluptuous

1:25:17

is this and you're talking about

1:25:19

her Off composed a list of

1:25:21

about seventeen Other things are really

1:25:23

like to do to those bad

1:25:26

boys. A course. This is

1:25:28

just. Silliness. But eventually

1:25:30

you write your book that know well as

1:25:32

you. Will. Her bad

1:25:34

drought. I'll

1:25:36

think we as fans ever think about gay Our

1:25:39

kids are going to watch this of ask us

1:25:41

about it as boys. A vast oil

1:25:43

it was, you know when that, when that

1:25:45

of. Promo. Is taken out

1:25:47

of context it seems. As

1:25:50

yeah a little alarming maybe? Well I think

1:25:52

the idea was I was true. Who was

1:25:55

I tried to get i say Gov by

1:25:57

dressing room. It's right I given their Emma.

1:26:00

If it's going to be somebody else in

1:26:02

that dressing room, I think I was. A

1:26:04

ranging for some when we get your

1:26:06

you're hoping or it was that was

1:26:08

the bogus Mankind catches the beat down

1:26:10

he says he says so that was

1:26:12

aware okay that are doing and to

1:26:15

give him beat I have observed completely

1:26:17

inappropriate they makes you would never say

1:26:19

right This is the Tory before Tory

1:26:21

well said yes yeah right arm. And

1:26:23

that yeah, I'm saying these things in

1:26:25

order to for a fake mag. Bogus

1:26:28

Mankind's to take the beat. but like

1:26:30

I said, taken on it's own, out

1:26:32

of context and seems wildly inappropriate. Which.

1:26:35

He was. Which. Unless.

1:26:38

You could do they avoid made for

1:26:40

entertaining T V but I'm sure even

1:26:42

funnier from you and allowed one seattle

1:26:44

last one or bad bad boys. Are

1:26:48

from your book. Fortunately when the tag from

1:26:50

Aaa it's came from or triplets and ring

1:26:53

what idea was better than one I could

1:26:55

have imagined. My first he punches were nothing

1:26:57

special and I for one hunter in the

1:26:59

corner as was more trademark began throwing us

1:27:01

for our to the had. I usually throw

1:27:04

five or six, sometimes a little more. Sometimes

1:27:06

they come in slow and deliberate, Sometimes. A

1:27:08

little faster, but on this nine St. Louis

1:27:10

the for arms were somehow better. I started

1:27:12

slow and picked up the pace. By the

1:27:14

time I got to ten the crowd was

1:27:16

behind every one. And. Hunter was sliding

1:27:19

down and was encouraging me with everyone. Com

1:27:21

o may come on. He. Said

1:27:23

as my respond connected with a scarlet.

1:27:25

Ever shorter intervals of the time I

1:27:27

was done, I had thrown twenty two

1:27:29

forearms and moved at the speed that.

1:27:33

I mean, this is something that years

1:27:35

sort of writing about. Hindsight, You're shocked.

1:27:37

And. He just sort of laid it out. but. We.

1:27:40

Hear or received your book. He's.

1:27:42

Cheering you on! Come on, make the mine. He.

1:27:45

Noticed to. The. Yeah, had

1:27:47

dame have found another gear and

1:27:49

you attribute all of this to

1:27:51

the cardio at the beach? Could

1:27:53

have were cardio and trip blades

1:27:55

in a visualization. Believe. in myself

1:27:58

i also want to point out it was My

1:28:00

dear friend Brian Hildebrandt who wrestling fans would

1:28:02

get to know better is Mark Curtis who

1:28:05

saw me He thought you know I had to work

1:28:07

with a limited, you know Move

1:28:10

set, you know, I didn't have

1:28:12

the extraordinary athleticism I

1:28:14

threw pretty good forearms and Brian knew I was

1:28:17

a big fan of all Japan Yes

1:28:20

And so he showed me I knew

1:28:22

what toshiaka kawata was doing with the

1:28:24

kicks the fast kicks in

1:28:26

the corner And he suggested I do

1:28:28

those with forearms Wow That turned out

1:28:31

to be a you know major part

1:28:33

of my limited arsenal I love that

1:28:35

But yeah, it was the car it

1:28:37

was everything combined. It was a scenario

1:28:40

belief in myself visualization Triple

1:28:42

H playing a big part and you throw it

1:28:44

all together and it was a much improved Hardcore

1:28:47

legend And just a few minutes later you

1:28:49

take the turnbuckle to the chest bruise your

1:28:51

sternum Really struggled to keep your

1:28:53

breath It feels like it's been knocked out of

1:28:55

you and you're gonna be hurting for

1:28:57

a while here with a bruise sternum Yeah Is that

1:28:59

just the highs and lows? I mean this is all

1:29:01

in the same match where you feel like man I'm

1:29:04

moving faster than ever this feels fantastic No I can't

1:29:06

breathe No I can't breathe Yeah Yeah, I was a

1:29:08

that was a small price to pay for the you

1:29:11

know for the movement

1:29:13

and the strengthening

1:29:15

of the angle It's

1:29:19

a big angle and we know that we're the

1:29:21

next night We're gonna have an interview angle with

1:29:23

Triple H calling mankind out to the ring and

1:29:25

instead of the real deal They bring out the

1:29:27

bogus guy who gets down and grovels at hunters

1:29:30

feet They're just mocking you and

1:29:32

then eventually you come out big

1:29:34

response triple H. That's enough Is

1:29:37

this what you get off on making fun of me you

1:29:40

take my job? Then you bring this idiot out

1:29:42

here and you take away my dignity This

1:29:45

is a big-time promo and at this

1:29:47

point Russo

1:29:50

is now with WCW who if anybody

1:29:53

is helping you with the verbiage of

1:29:55

a big promo I think I had

1:29:57

a lot of freedom there. Okay. I

1:29:59

mean Tommy who

1:30:02

went on to do

1:30:05

metal aqua, what is it

1:30:07

called? He

1:30:09

did something on Adult Swim. He

1:30:11

was a really good writer,

1:30:13

written for Conan O'Brien. I don't want to

1:30:16

downplay. Great guy. I don't want

1:30:19

to downplay his contributions, but I think I had a lot

1:30:21

of free reign at that point to do

1:30:23

the verbiage on my own. And

1:30:26

of course here's the big reveal you talked

1:30:28

about before. I think you know the guy

1:30:30

the crowd starts to stir. I rip open

1:30:32

my mankind-colored shirt to reveal the infamous wanted

1:30:34

dead shirt underneath. His name is

1:30:36

Cactus Jack. A pop as big as I've ever

1:30:38

been a part of and his

1:30:40

first official act as a part of

1:30:43

the World Wrestling Federation is to kick

1:30:45

your teeth all over Chicago. That is

1:30:47

a fun little Superman reveal there.

1:30:49

The biggest

1:30:53

pop of your career, I mean,

1:30:55

maybe is when you win the

1:30:57

title and this is two, would

1:30:59

you think? Maybe so. It's

1:31:02

amazing all the little moments that get to

1:31:04

this incredible match and with the benefit of

1:31:06

hindsight all these years later, it makes me

1:31:08

wonder, you know,

1:31:11

was it the match just on its own that

1:31:13

made it that or were we just all emotionally

1:31:15

invested because of this story? Yeah, when you get

1:31:17

emotionally invested, everything is so much more meaningful and

1:31:20

you kind of see what you want to see, but at

1:31:22

the same time, I think it does hold up over time

1:31:25

that it was

1:31:27

a really good match. I think I said Triple

1:31:29

H was on top of his game and I

1:31:32

wasn't far behind. I thought he was

1:31:34

the MVP of that match, but I was better

1:31:36

than I'd been in a long time. At

1:31:40

this point, is this the angle

1:31:42

or promo or story you're most proud

1:31:44

of or where does it rank? It

1:31:48

meant so much to me because I'm

1:31:50

getting a chance to write my own

1:31:54

exit. I get to write off

1:31:56

into the sunset under

1:31:59

my own conditions. not too many people have the

1:32:01

chance to do that. And then as we know, I would

1:32:03

come back six weeks after

1:32:05

that cell match, which we'll talk about

1:32:08

at another time. But

1:32:10

yeah, this felt like one of the

1:32:12

best things I'd ever done, and I'm

1:32:14

so fortunate that I had the opportunity

1:32:17

to do it. We

1:32:19

see that Hunter is

1:32:21

gonna air footage from

1:32:24

the rock, restoring you with all the chair shots

1:32:26

at the prior Royal Rumble, and he's

1:32:28

gonna say, that's nothing compared to what he's going to

1:32:30

do to you. And

1:32:32

of course, you're gonna vow to turn him into

1:32:34

a human pin cushion, and

1:32:37

you gotta start fighting. And

1:32:39

unfortunately, you've lost so much weight, your

1:32:42

pants start to come down, and all

1:32:44

the replays, they edit that off. Is

1:32:47

this the first time you've had a major wardrobe

1:32:49

malfunction on TV? I think Triple H

1:32:51

would go back to it. I think there

1:32:53

was a visible skid

1:32:55

mark at one point in

1:32:58

the Foley Fruit of the Loom. Yeah, I believe

1:33:01

that may have been the first time I had that type

1:33:03

of wardrobe malfunction.

1:33:05

I think we need to

1:33:07

point out, this was the

1:33:10

first WWE pay-per-view without Steve

1:33:12

or Rock headlining in

1:33:14

quite a while. And

1:33:16

Triple H, he's trying to make that expansion.

1:33:22

It's not a two man race, he belongs to, and

1:33:24

you are as well. You guys are really the pillars

1:33:26

of the company at that point, but

1:33:28

with Steve on the shelf and the Rock in the

1:33:30

Rumble, it's kinda up to you guys

1:33:32

to tell the story for the title here. It is.

1:33:36

The show itself is down 50,000 buys from the

1:33:39

99 Royal Rumble. Do

1:33:42

you contribute that to

1:33:44

just the ebb and flow of the business, or is

1:33:46

that just all? Well, it was still a really good

1:33:48

buy rate. Oh, huge, yeah. It was well over 500.

1:33:51

Keep in mind that the previous year,

1:33:53

we had me and Rock in

1:33:56

the title main event,

1:33:59

and also... Vince as

1:34:01

a first-time entrant where he

1:34:03

and Shane did those remarkable series

1:34:07

The vignettes yeah, I mean Vince's addition

1:34:10

into the rumble I

1:34:12

think was really valuable So I thought being

1:34:15

down 50 And

1:34:17

an arrow when a lot of people

1:34:19

were pirating the product. Yes, that's That's

1:34:22

a 10 down 10%

1:34:25

but the year before had been up

1:34:27

so much yes that we were jumping

1:34:29

from 300 you know for

1:34:31

the December pay-per-view to 600 so to

1:34:33

go from whatever it was 300 to

1:34:35

550 Yeah,

1:34:39

yeah, I'm curious from your

1:34:41

standpoint How

1:34:44

are you putting together a match like this you

1:34:46

know that you've been in charge

1:34:48

of the promos You're gonna get to

1:34:50

do this match as cactus jack you've

1:34:53

campaigned for it a while Vince finally You

1:34:55

know gives in it says okay, we'll do

1:34:57

it But now

1:34:59

you're gonna be able to put together a

1:35:01

match and quote-unquote tell a story. Do you

1:35:04

have that same amount of? Liberty

1:35:06

that you did in the promos where it's

1:35:08

what do you want to do? Yeah? This

1:35:10

is before the producers started playing a bigger

1:35:12

role. Okay at that point. They were listening

1:35:14

and they would come in with perspectives,

1:35:17

but I mean what hunter and I

1:35:19

had it was really free rein and

1:35:22

Also, one of the deals I made with Vince that if

1:35:24

I was going to get into shape I

1:35:27

convinced him to take me off the house shows

1:35:29

for at least a month and So

1:35:32

I had almost unlimited time to think

1:35:34

about this match now a lot of

1:35:36

my great thinking came in car rides

1:35:38

Which I didn't have at that point,

1:35:40

but nonetheless I was so focused and

1:35:42

I had definite ideas about

1:35:44

what I wanted to do

1:35:46

and and Hunter and

1:35:48

I got together and we

1:35:50

came up with a plan that worked out Perfectly

1:35:54

was there anything hunter was hesitant to do is

1:35:57

there anything you felt strongly about you know

1:35:59

I do regret Brett, I

1:36:02

used the two different barbed wire two by fours.

1:36:07

And Hunter did two, and a month

1:36:09

later I'm hitting him in the head

1:36:11

with a real legit barbed wire.

1:36:13

But people could see that if

1:36:15

you look closely, the barbed

1:36:17

wire hit Hunter with was not the same one

1:36:20

that we pulled out from underneath

1:36:22

the time, you know, the announcers

1:36:24

table, and he used on me. And

1:36:27

so we should have

1:36:29

just used the same one. It was a

1:36:31

small little thing, and again, people were so

1:36:34

happy at what we were giving them that, I mean,

1:36:36

I'm sure there were a few cynics who did see

1:36:39

the sleight of hand, but even

1:36:41

if people did see it, they

1:36:43

gave us a pass because everything else was, it's

1:36:46

hard to say that Triple H wasn't contributing

1:36:49

when he wrestled most of that match.

1:36:52

With a puncture, right? With a huge puncture

1:36:54

wound from the shard of wood that

1:36:57

I suplexed him on. So that was a gutsy,

1:36:59

like we talk about Patrick

1:37:01

Mahomes and Cody

1:37:04

with the terribly torn peck. I

1:37:07

would put Hunter's performance up there with Schilling

1:37:10

and Mahomes and Cody, I

1:37:12

would, because he had to go another

1:37:14

20 minutes? Yeah, it

1:37:16

was early in the match. And he

1:37:18

incorporated the injury into the match, and

1:37:20

it was a really amazing showcase for

1:37:22

him. I don't remember there being a big

1:37:25

backlash after being two, two by fours. I

1:37:27

don't think so, yeah. I do remember the

1:37:29

rather gruesome injury to Hunter's leg,

1:37:32

and I know in hindsight I wonder, did

1:37:35

they think it was necessary? I guess my

1:37:37

question is, was Hunter hesitant to take the

1:37:40

real barbed wire? No. That

1:37:42

was a WME call. That was a

1:37:45

me call. Okay. Maybe

1:37:47

there was a little bit of ego there, like

1:37:49

I'm gonna take the real one. But

1:37:51

at no point did Hunter say he didn't wanna take it.

1:37:54

And I think a month later he said he definitely

1:37:56

wanted to take it, and we did. But

1:37:59

that's a real... minor point. Sure. You

1:38:01

know when you look at the bigger picture. Who

1:38:05

helps put together a match like that? I know you

1:38:08

said this before the agents were really involved but is

1:38:10

there a third voice at all or is it simply

1:38:12

you you guys just going back and forth and is

1:38:14

it something you talk about for weeks

1:38:16

leading up to it a few days leading

1:38:19

up to it or just that day at

1:38:21

the building? Conrad this was only one of

1:38:23

three matches that I had a really good

1:38:26

idea from A to Z. Okay. The

1:38:28

other two being a match

1:38:31

with Wing Kenimora that he put

1:38:33

together completely went

1:38:36

over it with me when I did my first

1:38:38

I only did two matches for FMW and

1:38:40

this was one that he had obviously put so

1:38:42

much thought into it. They looked

1:38:45

it over it was on paper and I

1:38:47

went sounds good to

1:38:49

me. Like I had no maybe I

1:38:51

said hey what if we did this twice

1:38:53

or whatever the case was but this guy

1:38:55

had obviously put so much time and

1:38:57

thought and that's the way I was with

1:39:00

this one and then the other one was

1:39:02

with Randy Orton at Backlash. So when

1:39:05

two of your top five matches ever

1:39:07

are you know thought

1:39:09

out A to Z it's tough to knock

1:39:11

the kids today for saying back

1:39:13

in my day we called stuff in the ring. Yeah

1:39:15

we did some of it was

1:39:18

great but some of it was not. Right.

1:39:20

And this is before the era of the

1:39:22

ultra close-up and the high definition. So

1:39:26

I did I did not often line up

1:39:28

like I said only two of my own

1:39:30

matches and then one with Wing Kenimora lining

1:39:32

up the whole thing but that

1:39:34

was a good match too. Really good match

1:39:36

I thought that we had in Japan but

1:39:38

those two being in

1:39:40

the top five I think are proof that

1:39:42

there's no one way to get over the

1:39:44

finish line. How would you

1:39:46

say that your philosophy to

1:39:49

how you approach a match and how you work

1:39:51

the body of a match and tell a story

1:39:53

differs from Hunter. Do you guys pretty in lockstep

1:39:55

on the way you see matches

1:39:58

and stories in the business? I think so I I remember

1:40:00

going back to when we had

1:40:02

our first program, Mankind and the

1:40:04

Connecticut Blue Blood, that it

1:40:06

was my first time as a baby face, and I think

1:40:08

we've talked about this on the show, that

1:40:12

he thought one big comeback,

1:40:14

as opposed to a few

1:40:16

mini comebacks and hope spots.

1:40:19

And Mankind was fighting from underneath, but

1:40:21

as far as the hope spots, we

1:40:24

threw it all into one big comeback. That's

1:40:26

where I did, how do I make a

1:40:28

comeback? How do I make

1:40:30

it signature? And that's where I came up

1:40:32

with the idea that after a couple moves, I would sit,

1:40:35

rock, pull the hair, throw

1:40:37

it. Nobody had done anything remotely

1:40:40

like that. It was

1:40:42

either that or go, right. For

1:40:45

the listening, I am doing

1:40:48

the classic, go, come

1:40:50

on, come on, you know, the classic. Why

1:40:52

I out? Why I out? Oh, God, I

1:40:54

can't wait to get my hands on you.

1:40:57

See, we're all putting our own twist on

1:40:59

that. Not everybody can do that, hit the

1:41:01

mat, come on. So

1:41:05

we're putting our twist on it,

1:41:07

but it was Hunter and I

1:41:09

think had very similar philosophies

1:41:11

to how you could

1:41:13

get over without going

1:41:15

over, that this was going

1:41:18

to be a great showcase for both of us. And

1:41:20

look, he went so far out of his way to

1:41:24

make me to fulfill that legend that

1:41:26

we had created with Cactus Jack. The

1:41:29

match was incredible. I encourage

1:41:31

everybody to go out of your way to watch

1:41:33

it. Of course, it's on Peacock, Melchior Wright. Cactus

1:41:35

versus Helmsley was a bonafide match of the year

1:41:37

candidate. And in hindsight, probably should have

1:41:39

gone on last. The feeling was that

1:41:41

nobody at this point should be asked to follow

1:41:44

the rock. And the WWF

1:41:46

likes to go off the

1:41:48

air at all possible with a match where

1:41:50

the baby face gets his hand raised. But

1:41:52

the Royal Rumble absolutely could not follow

1:41:54

the title match. Still, it

1:41:56

was the best pay-per-view show from any company

1:41:59

in several months. Was

1:42:01

that a point of pride for you and Hunter that

1:42:03

y'all wanted to go last or did you

1:42:05

sort of understand well it's the Rumble? You

1:42:08

know we had asserted ourselves

1:42:13

so many times that I don't think we cared

1:42:16

where we were you know I think

1:42:18

you know it was a matter of belief

1:42:21

in yourself you know I think

1:42:23

both of us thought that we

1:42:26

were the main event that year

1:42:28

regardless of where we were on and

1:42:30

I do and I do remember growing up

1:42:32

as a WWE fan they like to send

1:42:34

fans home happy now there were over the

1:42:36

years that would change to where it seemed

1:42:39

like we were deliberately messing with people's hopes

1:42:43

you know where you're beating Charlotte

1:42:45

in Charlotte being Sasha in Boston